February 19, 2025 • 28 mins
Unlock the Secret Formula for Daily Happiness!
Have you ever wondered if it's possible to be happy every single day of your life? Well, the answer is yes—and we're here to show you how!
Join renowned happiness expert Dr. Jim Polakof as he sits down with Professor Lorraine Besser, the brilliant author of the award-winning book The Philosophy of Happiness. In this insightful podcast interview, Dr. Polakof and Professor Besser delve deep into the principles and philosophies that can help you unlock the key to a fulfilling, joyful life.
What you’ll learn in this episode:
⭐The core philosophies that underpin daily happiness
⭐Practical strategies you can implement to cultivate lasting joy
⭐How to overcome obstacles and challenges that hinder happiness
⭐Discovering the Art of Interesting
Whether you’re looking to improve your mindset, find peace, or boost your overall well-being, this episode will provide you with powerful tools to live a more joyful and meaningful life. Tune in to uncover the secret formula for daily happiness and take the first step toward a brighter, happier you!
📺 Watch now and start your journey to a happier, healthier life!
🔗 Learn more: https://www.JamesPolakof.com
-------
Dr. Lorraine Besser:
Website: https://lorrainebesser.com/
📲 Follow Dr. Lorraine Besser:
Twitter: @LorraineBesser
Instagram: @lorbesser
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorraine-besser-0a980212b/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Welcome to another episode of Live Healthy Longer
with Dr Jim, and in this episode, let's explore if you have
enough happiness in your life.
This episode is supported inpart by Amazon Books.
(00:26):
Their slogan is everything fromA to Z, and I'll have some
great reading recommendationsfor you at the conclusion of
this podcast.
Now here comes our host,healthcare specialist author and
very popular podcaster, Dr Jim.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I'm Dr Jim Bullock-Hobb, and it truly gives
me great pleasure to share somehappiness with you.
So let's begin by asking mylisteners are you happy?
Could you be happier Now?
Would you like to findhappiness in your life each and
every day?
Well, happiness has manydefinitions.
(01:04):
For some, it's a sense ofwell-being, for others it's joy,
and then there are those whowould simply be pleased with
contentment.
Regardless, it's at the core ofhuman nature to simply want to
be happy.
Now, having said this, theUnited States does not feel like
(01:25):
a happy country.
In fact, a recent Gallup pollrevealed that, when it comes to
happiness, america is ranked waydown 23rd in the world,
following way behind suchcountries as Australia, canada,
even Costa Rica and Kuwait, andwe're also way, way behind
(01:46):
Finland, which is ranked firstin a population of very happy
people.
So the question is why?
Why are we, as Americans,unhappy?
How can this be in the mostprosperous nation in the world?
Studies show that in the UnitedStates, unhappiness is both a
(02:08):
political state as well as amental health crisis.
For example, anxiety affectsone in five adults and more than
20% of teenagers have seriouslyconsidered suicide.
We're simply unhappier than weshould be.
Definitely, our politicalclimate plays a major factor in
(02:31):
our unhappiness as a country.
Sadly, we've become adisoriented people unable to
speak the same language orrecognize the same truth.
We are literally cut off fromone another.
An analysis of the most recentelection demonstrates that many
people feel left behind, notlistened to, misunderstood, and,
(02:57):
of course, their vote was anexpression of this
discontentment.
So what's the solution?
Now you're going to hear frommy guest Professor, lorraine
Besser, in just a bit about hertake on happiness, but here's
what my research reveals.
First, we have to startlistening to each other.
(03:18):
The 2024 World Economic Forumused the term generous listening
, and that's what's needed.
That's what's required to bringus together.
Secondly, we need to return tothe spirit of openness and
positivity, if for no otherreason than our health and
well-being.
(03:39):
A recent study by John HopkinsMedicine found that people with
a family history of heartdisease, who had a positive
outlook on life, were one-thirdless likely to have a heart
attack or a stroke than thosewith a negative outlook.
Yes, you can bet your life thata happy state of mind can
(04:01):
protect your health.
So what does Finland, the mosthappy of all countries, have
that America doesn't?
The first reason is very simpleto wrap our heads around, the
Finns have a welfare policywhich provides free health care
and education for all.
This serves to level theplaying field, where everyone is
(04:24):
on an equal footing and feelscompletely secure.
And you know what, whileFinland's taxes are higher and
their GDP will only grow by 1.6%compared to the US projection
of 2.3%, it's a very small priceto pay for happiness.
Where Finland comes out wayahead of America is in the
(04:46):
country's high levels of socialcohesion, which means the people
feel a sense of connection toone another.
This is something we're reallymissing as Americans, and if
we're going to become happyagain, we need to really listen
to one another and realize thereis more in common that unites
us than divides our country.
(05:07):
Without question, there's a lotwe can learn from the Finns,
but for now, let's get anotherperspective about happiness.
My special guest for thisepisode is Dr Lorraine Besser, a
Middlebury College professorand a leading expert on the
nature of happiness andwell-being.
Her first bestseller is thePhilosophy of Happiness, and Dr
(05:33):
Besser's new book, the Art ofInteresting, is getting rave
reviews.
So it's time to get happy.
Welcome to Live Healthy Longer,professor Lorraine Besser.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Thank you, james, I'm really excited to be here Now.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
You make an interesting comment that people
are so often fixated on pleasure.
But let's talk about the termhappiness Now.
Happiness can have differentmeanings to each of us, and
often it can be an illusive,shall we say, pursuit.
How you envision happiness?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah, thank you.
You know, as you mentioned, weuse happiness in so many
different ways.
I think it's really importantwe can use the word however we
want, but I also think it'sreally important to be clear
about how we're using the word,especially if we want to
increase our happiness, and soone of the things that the way I
(06:31):
approach happiness is to followalong with the way that
happiness is studied within theempirical sciences, which is
where they take happiness to bethis state, this very discrete
state marked by positive affectand pleasure.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And we're talking about a scientific approach,
correct?
As opposed to, you know, justcoming off the line of being
happy.
This is actual science speaking.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, yeah, and so empirically right, it's really
important to have a reallywell-described object that you
are studying, and I think thatthere is.
What we find within discussionsof happiness is that there is
this distance between the longerterm, broader sense of
happiness that we use all thetime in ordinary language and
(07:20):
what gets studied and calledhappiness within the sciences,
and so I find it more helpful tothink about happiness as one
part of the good life, and soone of several things that we
ought to be pursuing and otherthings that we have to pursue
include meaningfulness andinterestingness, and oftentimes
(07:45):
the broad sense of happinessincludes these tones.
Right, we often hear aboutauthentic happiness or something
like that, and again, thatthat's fine, but what the real
key, important thing is for usto be able to really know what
it is, which sense is being used.
Otherwise, how are we supposedto know whether what we're
reading about or the informationwe're getting is really
(08:06):
relevant for our pursuits andinterests?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
That's important your first book on the subject,
which is called the Philosophyof Happiness.
It actually reawakened alongstanding philosophical
question Can happiness really bemeasured or, for that matter,
successfully pursued?
So can you describe and I usethe term basics can you describe
(08:30):
the basics you convey abouthappiness?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah.
So in that book what I do isexplore basic fundamental
philosophical understandings ofhappiness, which certainly
precede the scientific researchon it, and then I consider what
we've learned about happinessfrom the various disciplines
that have now began studying it,and I found that there were
(08:55):
similar issues raised throughoutinterdisciplinary research.
One of them is that happiness,again studied as this state of
positive affect, is veryshort-lived state and so that
when we get it and we experienceit right, we experience it as
something really good and wewant it to continue, of course.
(09:18):
Yet our physiology is such thatit naturally adapts to these
high levels of sensation, and soit really makes the pursuit of
this kind of sustained happinessa really elusive kind of goal
for us.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Well, you mentioned short term, which is interesting
, I think, in a sense, becauseshort term does that mean it's
kind of like a high, we're on ashort high and then all of a
sudden we come down off thathigh.
Is that what you're talking?
Speaker 3 (09:48):
about pleasurable states, right?
They really describe this kindof this high right, this kind of
way of experiencing that ismarked by these higher levels of
good feelings.
But, as most of us know, goodfeelings come down, right.
(10:15):
It's just not part of oursystem to be experiencing these
increased states of pleasure atall times.
One way I like to think aboutpleasure and happiness is really
as a reward, right?
So pleasure originatesphysiologically as the reward
for the crop that kicks in tokind of reward us for doing the
things that we are supposed tobe doing.
Eating feels really good, andit feels good because we get a
(10:40):
sense of pleasure that rewardsus for nourishing our body.
But in order to function as areward, the feeling has to go
away.
We can't eat once and then begood forever, right, we have to
eat once, get rewarded when wedo it, and then that feeling has
to go away in order to motivateus to do it again.
(11:00):
So, by its nature, pleasure,these senses of positive affect,
they operate as this rewardsystems that you know originate
by doing what things we'resupposed to be doing.
They've expanded, of course,since then, but fundamentally
they are physiologically wiredin the same sense.
They're rewards.
And for rewards to work right.
(11:22):
They can't last forever.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So I guess, how can we enjoy the highs unless we
also experience the lows isreally what it boils down to,
and the reward, of course, givesus that high.
But then we've got to work atit, don't we?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, yeah.
So the reward gives us the highand then we return to some kind
of whatever our default stateis, but when it fades away, we
should just remind ourselvesthat that's expected and really
just be okay with that.
There are other ways that wecan enhance our lives and there
are other ways to add thingsthat will satisfy us and that
(12:02):
we'll find enjoyable, that gobeyond just these pleasant
sources of pleasure beingcontent with who we are, where
we are and obviously experiencethose highs, but be content with
the rest of our life, eventhough it may not be constant
(12:22):
highs.
Yeah, yeah, and I thinkcertainly I mean I worry about
too much of a blanketendorsement of contentment,
because I think there is a lotthat we can do to enhance our
current situations, think thereis a lot that we can do to
enhance our current situations.
I just don't think pursuingpleasure is going to be our best
bet to enhance our currentsituations.
(12:43):
So I think we should be contentin the sense that we have
experiences of pleasure and theygo away, and we should be okay
with that, right.
I definitely worry aboutpunishing ourselves or feeling
that there's something wrongwith us when our happiness, or
feeling that there's somethingwrong with us when our happiness
fades away.
There's nothing wrong with us,that's just part of how it works
.
And the more that we can acceptthat and recognize it, then you
(13:06):
know, the less hard onourselves we'll be and the more
that we can find space to doother things that'll enhance our
lives and deliver to us a goodlife.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I like it In any case .
Your latest book, by the way,which is, as you know, getting
brave reviews, is called the Artof Interesting.
Now, of course, interestingmeans different things to
different people.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
What does it mean to you?
I see interestingness as justas important as pleasure.
You, I see interestingness asjust as important as pleasure.
Both describe the quality of acertain range of experiences,
and both are really important inour lives, and we haven't
talked that much about theinteresting, and so that's what
I'm here to do.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So.
But if we find somethinginteresting, does that mean
we're happy, that we foundsomething interesting and
therefore we're in a state ofhappiness, or does interesting
mean something provocative, itmeans something else other than
happiness, or do they bothcoincide?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah.
So I think that the interestingis certainly different and
distinct from happinessunderstood as a state of
positive affection.
Happiness understood as a stateof positive affection and part
of my research originated withina collaborative work I did with
a psychologist, shigehiro Oshii, who became interested in the
question of whether or not ourcurrent ways of understanding
(14:29):
the good life, which is in termsof happiness or meaning or some
combination of those, whetherthose really exhausted all there
is to a good life, and so webegan working on this project,
studying this concept, ordeveloping the concept of
psychological richness, andtrying to understand what it is
and why it's really important tous, and one of the things first
(14:52):
and most important things wefound was that psychological
richness, this state, isdistinct from happiness and
meaning, and what thatessentially means for us is that
where we don't find happiness,or where happiness is really not
kicking in, perhaps becausewe're experiencing complex
(15:12):
emotions, we can still havevaluable experiences that are
rewarding and that enhance ourlives, and those are the
interesting experiences.
What we know aboutpsychologically rich states is
that their nature is such thatthey really arise under
conditions of challenge,complexity and novelty, and
these are all conditions thattrigger this robust form of
(15:35):
cognitive engagement.
You'd also notice they're notall situations where positive
feelings are always flowing.
Gosh, one of my favoriteexamples is also generates
painful feelings for me, but Iwill share it.
So, thinking about snakes for me, like I am really scared of
snakes and I'm not scared ofmany things, but snakes I'm
(15:57):
really scared of it and so I canthink about snakes and be
actually really interested inthinking about them.
Where I live in Vermont, we'reacross the lake from a place
where there are rattlesnakes inthe mountains, and there's a lot
of folklore about theserattlesnakes, right?
Such as that they follow theseboundaries, so like they go only
(16:19):
to a certain point around themountain, but they don't cross
over any certain lines.
There's also people who claimto see them swim, and I find
this kind of these stories aboutthese rattlesnakes very
interesting to think about.
Right?
How can a snake follow aboundary?
How can a snake swim, right?
All of these things I findreally interesting to think
(16:39):
about.
Yet place that I want to be in,even though it makes me shake
(17:01):
it and have uncomfortablefeelings, right.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
So you find snakes interesting, but you're not
happy when you're around them.
That's what it is yes.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Nor am I happy when I'm thinking about them.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
No, I sure am not myself.
I don't know what it is aboutsnakes and I don't think it's
biblical, but when I see one itscares me.
If it's coming towards me itreally does.
I know that I could probablyhandle the situation, but yes, I
find them very interesting,what they do, the different
types, varieties, so yeah, I dosee the difference.
(17:32):
Very good point In your book,the Art of Interesting, you
discuss what we're missing.
What are we missing?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I think we're missing psychological richness.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Can you describe how we go about enhancing our
psychological richness?
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and so the way to go
about thinking about how youcan really develop more
psychological richness withinyour lives is to really think
about the conditions that it'scorrelated with and then to put
yourself in those conditions.
Right, so it's not the kind ofthing that we can plan to pursue
(18:08):
directly, right, because thattakes away all of the
interesting parts of it, butwhat we can do is look at the
research.
So here's what we know thatpsychological richness is
primarily correlated with.
So it crops up in situations ofnovelty, complexity and
challenge.
So we can develop morepsychological richness in our
(18:30):
lives by allowing ourselves tobe in challenging positions and
seeking out the complexity inthe world, and also by seeking
out novelty or discoveringnovelty around us.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Should we be reading more?
Should we be watching a littlebit more PBS than on television,
as opposed to watching theserials that we have that are
shoot-em-ups and all of that?
I mean, are we going in thewrong direction as a society,
where we're focusing on thewrong things rather than
(19:06):
enriching our minds?
Is that kind of what you'resaying?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, I think there is that sense in which, as a
society, we do tend to focus onthe wrong things, but I also
really believe and I think youstarted out with this right that
what each person findsinteresting is very unique and
specific to them, and so I'mhesitant to say that.
There's one thing like startreading more, find documentaries
(19:33):
.
These are all sources,potential sources, of
psychologically rich experiences, but it also depends on what's
really activating the individual.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Good point.
Now there's something youmentioned in your book that's
interesting, because we facedaily obstacles, things that
really bother us, things thatchallenge us.
You mentioned in your bookturning obstacles into
adventures.
Can you explain that?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah, yeah.
So obstacle, like thinkingabout something in terms of an
obstacle, it really just shutsyou down.
Right, you put all theseexpectations on it, these bad
expectations, and it's reallygonna, you know, close off any
possibilities for you.
But if you stop just seeing itas an obstacle and instead just
bring openness to see whathappens, then you'll be more apt
(20:23):
to have a psychologically richexperience.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
So is this, by any chance, where the power of
positive thinking comes in?
Let's say, an older adult who'sfacing some serious illnesses
or medical challenges, so tospeak?
As we age, obviously morethings come into our life that
become obstacles, really bigobstacles.
So the utilization of thepositive thinking approach is
(20:52):
this helpful in those situations?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
You know the positive thinking approach.
It certainly can be helpful,right.
But I think we ought to bereally aware of the potential
for toxic positivity to creep in, and by that I mean a form of
positivity that really refusesto acknowledge the challenge
(21:15):
itself, right?
So there's a way in which wecan interact and it's a tempting
way and it's always motivatedby a great place where we think
it'll be more helpful for aperson to just not think about
the challenges or to say thatyou know, no, it's actually not
that bad and you know, really,we can, we can think of it this
(21:36):
way.
Or even just like for people toengage with, people with, with
someone who's suffering, and noteven recognize that suffering
because we think that'll that'llhurt them somehow.
We think that being positivewill, will help them somehow.
I think that approach can bevery hurtful to someone who is
(21:57):
suffering, right, if someone'ssuffering, we need to recognize
their suffering.
We don't want to.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
We need to acknowledge it.
To overcome the obstacle.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, yeah, we need to see it first.
Right, and we don't, you know,we don't want to erase it for
them, don't you know we don'twant to erase it for them.
If they're suffering, theyprobably, you know they can't
erase their challenges, andsuggesting that they do is, I
think it can be problematic.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I understand.
So, in conclusion, Dr Besser,let's get back to the theme of
happiness.
Professor, let's get back tothe theme of happiness.
Can you summarize your visionof achieving happiness on a
daily basis?
I mean what's required toachieve happiness to keep life
(22:49):
interesting.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah, so I think that on a daily basis, what we can
do is really be aware and moreconscious of what we're
experiencing.
So simply by being aware of,you know, when we feel positive
affect blooming right, and thento let it go right and be really
experienced in the moment as itcomes.
(23:11):
And likewise, I think we canreally pay attention to things
that are stimulating our mindsand allow that to happen and
allow psychological richness todevelop out of that and
reminding ourselves of whenwe're stuck and that you know
there are moments, even when youhave a pressing deadline,
you're still driving to work.
(23:32):
You can look around yourenvironment as you drive to work
and take in something new,bring some curiosity to it, have
an interesting experience.
You haven't done anythingdifferent, you haven't really
sacrificed any real mission orplan, but you've given yourself
a moment to really enjoy andexperience something that is
(23:54):
rewarding.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
You've opened your eyes and your mind.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yes, yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Well, dr Besser, I really want to thank you for
sharing such enlighteninginformation with us, and in a
moment, we're going to let mylisteners know where we can
learn more about you and yourgreat books, such as the
Philosophy of Happiness and theArt of Interesting, and I'll be
right back to discuss foods thatmake you happy.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
You can learn more about Dr Lorraine Besser and her
best-selling books, the Art ofInteresting and the Philosophy
of Happiness on our website,jamespolakoffcom.
You can also visit Dr LorraineBesser's website at
lorrainebessercom.
And here are three excellentbooks you can read or buy on
(24:42):
Amazon.
Live Healthy Longer with Dr Jimis written by our own Dr Jim
Polakoff, and don't forget toread those terrific reviews for
Live Healthy Longer with Dr Jimon Amazon.
Also, check out the Real youOnly Better giving you the
inside look into plastic surgeryand how you can make certain
(25:02):
your inner beauty blooms.
Plus, savor a fun and romanticstory about two above-par lovers
intertwined in the world ofgolf.
It is called Love in the Pines.
You can find all of theseterrific books on Amazoncom.
You can also visit our website,jamespolakoffcom.
That's James P-O-L-A-K-O-Fcom.
(25:26):
Now back to Dr Jim.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
I again wish to express my appreciation to Dr
Lorraine Besser for sharing herenlightening perspective on
happiness and, what'sinteresting, she certainly
imparted some good advice.
So let's go ahead andaccelerate our happiness by
discussing healthy foods thatmake you happy.
Now, did you know your body hasfeel-good chemicals?
(25:52):
Yes, there are two, namelyserotonin and dopamine.
Now, serotonin regulates yourmood and it promotes sleep,
while dopamine managesmotivation, attention and
emotional reward.
For example, the satisfactionyou feel when accomplishing a
goal is partly due to yourdopamine rush.
(26:15):
So what foods can we turn to toactivate these feel-good
chemicals?
First of all, it's back tofruits and veggies.
All vegetables and many fruitscontain complex carbohydrates,
(26:35):
which are important forstabilizing your mood.
Complex carbs can help in theproduction of serotonin.
Other sources of complex carbsinclude whole grain bread, brown
rice, whole grain pasta, beansand oats, for example.
Now, as a nutritionist, I alsorecommend oily fish like salmon,
trout, mackerel, even sardinesfish like salmon, trout,
(27:01):
mackerel, even sardines.
These are rich in omega-3 fattyacids and these are important
for brain function, along withcommunication, which are
stimulated by serotonin anddopamine.
There are many more tasty tipsto stimulate happiness, so I
suggest read my latest blogHealthy Foods that Make you
Happy.
Simply come to our website,jamespolikoffcom and click on
(27:24):
blogs, and remember that a newepisode of Live Healthy Longer
is available each and everyWednesday.
Every week, I'll be coveringimportant issues that affect our
well-being, including ourbodies, mind and soul.
This is Dr Jim Polakoff.
Thanks for joining me andpermit me to offer this
(27:46):
salutation.
Let's vow to live together,with understanding each other,
in good health, filled withhappiness and longevity, so you.
Welcome to another episode of Live Healthy Longer
with Dr Jim, and in this episode, let's explore if you have
enough happiness in your life.
This episode is supported inpart by Amazon Books.
(00:26):
Their slogan is everything fromA to Z, and I'll have some
great reading recommendationsfor you at the conclusion of
this podcast.
Now here comes our host,healthcare specialist author and
very popular podcaster, Dr Jim.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I'm Dr Jim Bullock-Hobb, and it truly gives
me great pleasure to share somehappiness with you.
So let's begin by asking mylisteners are you happy?
Could you be happier Now?
Would you like to findhappiness in your life each and
every day?
Well, happiness has manydefinitions.
(01:04):
For some, it's a sense ofwell-being, for others it's joy,
and then there are those whowould simply be pleased with
contentment.
Regardless, it's at the core ofhuman nature to simply want to
be happy.
Now, having said this, theUnited States does not feel like
(01:25):
a happy country.
In fact, a recent Gallup pollrevealed that, when it comes to
happiness, america is ranked waydown 23rd in the world,
following way behind suchcountries as Australia, canada,
even Costa Rica and Kuwait, andwe're also way, way behind
(01:46):
Finland, which is ranked firstin a population of very happy
people.
So the question is why?
Why are we, as Americans,unhappy?
How can this be in the mostprosperous nation in the world?
Studies show that in the UnitedStates, unhappiness is both a
(02:08):
political state as well as amental health crisis.
For example, anxiety affectsone in five adults and more than
20% of teenagers have seriouslyconsidered suicide.
We're simply unhappier than weshould be.
Definitely, our politicalclimate plays a major factor in
(02:31):
our unhappiness as a country.
Sadly, we've become adisoriented people unable to
speak the same language orrecognize the same truth.
We are literally cut off fromone another.
An analysis of the most recentelection demonstrates that many
people feel left behind, notlistened to, misunderstood, and,
(02:57):
of course, their vote was anexpression of this
discontentment.
So what's the solution?
Now you're going to hear frommy guest Professor, lorraine
Besser, in just a bit about hertake on happiness, but here's
what my research reveals.
First, we have to startlistening to each other.
(03:18):
The 2024 World Economic Forumused the term generous listening
, and that's what's needed.
That's what's required to bringus together.
Secondly, we need to return tothe spirit of openness and
positivity, if for no otherreason than our health and
well-being.
(03:39):
A recent study by John HopkinsMedicine found that people with
a family history of heartdisease, who had a positive
outlook on life, were one-thirdless likely to have a heart
attack or a stroke than thosewith a negative outlook.
Yes, you can bet your life thata happy state of mind can
(04:01):
protect your health.
So what does Finland, the mosthappy of all countries, have
that America doesn't?
The first reason is very simpleto wrap our heads around, the
Finns have a welfare policywhich provides free health care
and education for all.
This serves to level theplaying field, where everyone is
(04:24):
on an equal footing and feelscompletely secure.
And you know what, whileFinland's taxes are higher and
their GDP will only grow by 1.6%compared to the US projection
of 2.3%, it's a very small priceto pay for happiness.
Where Finland comes out wayahead of America is in the
(04:46):
country's high levels of socialcohesion, which means the people
feel a sense of connection toone another.
This is something we're reallymissing as Americans, and if
we're going to become happyagain, we need to really listen
to one another and realize thereis more in common that unites
us than divides our country.
(05:07):
Without question, there's a lotwe can learn from the Finns,
but for now, let's get anotherperspective about happiness.
My special guest for thisepisode is Dr Lorraine Besser, a
Middlebury College professorand a leading expert on the
nature of happiness andwell-being.
Her first bestseller is thePhilosophy of Happiness, and Dr
(05:33):
Besser's new book, the Art ofInteresting, is getting rave
reviews.
So it's time to get happy.
Welcome to Live Healthy Longer,professor Lorraine Besser.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Thank you, james, I'm really excited to be here Now.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
You make an interesting comment that people
are so often fixated on pleasure.
But let's talk about the termhappiness Now.
Happiness can have differentmeanings to each of us, and
often it can be an illusive,shall we say, pursuit.
How you envision happiness?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah, thank you.
You know, as you mentioned, weuse happiness in so many
different ways.
I think it's really importantwe can use the word however we
want, but I also think it'sreally important to be clear
about how we're using the word,especially if we want to
increase our happiness, and soone of the things that the way I
(06:31):
approach happiness is to followalong with the way that
happiness is studied within theempirical sciences, which is
where they take happiness to bethis state, this very discrete
state marked by positive affectand pleasure.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And we're talking about a scientific approach,
correct?
As opposed to, you know, justcoming off the line of being
happy.
This is actual science speaking.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, yeah, and so empirically right, it's really
important to have a reallywell-described object that you
are studying, and I think thatthere is.
What we find within discussionsof happiness is that there is
this distance between the longerterm, broader sense of
happiness that we use all thetime in ordinary language and
(07:20):
what gets studied and calledhappiness within the sciences,
and so I find it more helpful tothink about happiness as one
part of the good life, and soone of several things that we
ought to be pursuing and otherthings that we have to pursue
include meaningfulness andinterestingness, and oftentimes
(07:45):
the broad sense of happinessincludes these tones.
Right, we often hear aboutauthentic happiness or something
like that, and again, thatthat's fine, but what the real
key, important thing is for usto be able to really know what
it is, which sense is being used.
Otherwise, how are we supposedto know whether what we're
reading about or the informationwe're getting is really
(08:06):
relevant for our pursuits andinterests?
Speaker 1 (08:09):
That's important your first book on the subject,
which is called the Philosophyof Happiness.
It actually reawakened alongstanding philosophical
question Can happiness really bemeasured or, for that matter,
successfully pursued?
So can you describe and I usethe term basics can you describe
(08:30):
the basics you convey abouthappiness?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah.
So in that book what I do isexplore basic fundamental
philosophical understandings ofhappiness, which certainly
precede the scientific researchon it, and then I consider what
we've learned about happinessfrom the various disciplines
that have now began studying it,and I found that there were
(08:55):
similar issues raised throughoutinterdisciplinary research.
One of them is that happiness,again studied as this state of
positive affect, is veryshort-lived state and so that
when we get it and we experienceit right, we experience it as
something really good and wewant it to continue, of course.
(09:18):
Yet our physiology is such thatit naturally adapts to these
high levels of sensation, and soit really makes the pursuit of
this kind of sustained happinessa really elusive kind of goal
for us.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Well, you mentioned short term, which is interesting
, I think, in a sense, becauseshort term does that mean it's
kind of like a high, we're on ashort high and then all of a
sudden we come down off thathigh.
Is that what you're talking?
Speaker 3 (09:48):
about pleasurable states, right?
They really describe this kindof this high right, this kind of
way of experiencing that ismarked by these higher levels of
good feelings.
But, as most of us know, goodfeelings come down, right.
(10:15):
It's just not part of oursystem to be experiencing these
increased states of pleasure atall times.
One way I like to think aboutpleasure and happiness is really
as a reward, right?
So pleasure originatesphysiologically as the reward
for the crop that kicks in tokind of reward us for doing the
things that we are supposed tobe doing.
Eating feels really good, andit feels good because we get a
(10:40):
sense of pleasure that rewardsus for nourishing our body.
But in order to function as areward, the feeling has to go
away.
We can't eat once and then begood forever, right, we have to
eat once, get rewarded when wedo it, and then that feeling has
to go away in order to motivateus to do it again.
(11:00):
So, by its nature, pleasure,these senses of positive affect,
they operate as this rewardsystems that you know originate
by doing what things we'resupposed to be doing.
They've expanded, of course,since then, but fundamentally
they are physiologically wiredin the same sense.
They're rewards.
And for rewards to work right.
(11:22):
They can't last forever.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So I guess, how can we enjoy the highs unless we
also experience the lows isreally what it boils down to,
and the reward, of course, givesus that high.
But then we've got to work atit, don't we?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, yeah.
So the reward gives us the highand then we return to some kind
of whatever our default stateis, but when it fades away, we
should just remind ourselvesthat that's expected and really
just be okay with that.
There are other ways that wecan enhance our lives and there
are other ways to add thingsthat will satisfy us and that
(12:02):
we'll find enjoyable, that gobeyond just these pleasant
sources of pleasure beingcontent with who we are, where
we are and obviously experiencethose highs, but be content with
the rest of our life, eventhough it may not be constant
(12:22):
highs.
Yeah, yeah, and I thinkcertainly I mean I worry about
too much of a blanketendorsement of contentment,
because I think there is a lotthat we can do to enhance our
current situations, think thereis a lot that we can do to
enhance our current situations.
I just don't think pursuingpleasure is going to be our best
bet to enhance our currentsituations.
(12:43):
So I think we should be contentin the sense that we have
experiences of pleasure and theygo away, and we should be okay
with that, right.
I definitely worry aboutpunishing ourselves or feeling
that there's something wrongwith us when our happiness, or
feeling that there's somethingwrong with us when our happiness
fades away.
There's nothing wrong with us,that's just part of how it works
.
And the more that we can acceptthat and recognize it, then you
(13:06):
know, the less hard onourselves we'll be and the more
that we can find space to doother things that'll enhance our
lives and deliver to us a goodlife.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I like it In any case .
Your latest book, by the way,which is, as you know, getting
brave reviews, is called the Artof Interesting.
Now, of course, interestingmeans different things to
different people.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
What does it mean to you?
I see interestingness as justas important as pleasure.
You, I see interestingness asjust as important as pleasure.
Both describe the quality of acertain range of experiences,
and both are really important inour lives, and we haven't
talked that much about theinteresting, and so that's what
I'm here to do.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So.
But if we find somethinginteresting, does that mean
we're happy, that we foundsomething interesting and
therefore we're in a state ofhappiness, or does interesting
mean something provocative, itmeans something else other than
happiness, or do they bothcoincide?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah.
So I think that the interestingis certainly different and
distinct from happinessunderstood as a state of
positive affection.
Happiness understood as a stateof positive affection and part
of my research originated withina collaborative work I did with
a psychologist, shigehiro Oshii, who became interested in the
question of whether or not ourcurrent ways of understanding
(14:29):
the good life, which is in termsof happiness or meaning or some
combination of those, whetherthose really exhausted all there
is to a good life, and so webegan working on this project,
studying this concept, ordeveloping the concept of
psychological richness, andtrying to understand what it is
and why it's really important tous, and one of the things first
(14:52):
and most important things wefound was that psychological
richness, this state, isdistinct from happiness and
meaning, and what thatessentially means for us is that
where we don't find happiness,or where happiness is really not
kicking in, perhaps becausewe're experiencing complex
(15:12):
emotions, we can still havevaluable experiences that are
rewarding and that enhance ourlives, and those are the
interesting experiences.
What we know aboutpsychologically rich states is
that their nature is such thatthey really arise under
conditions of challenge,complexity and novelty, and
these are all conditions thattrigger this robust form of
(15:35):
cognitive engagement.
You'd also notice they're notall situations where positive
feelings are always flowing.
Gosh, one of my favoriteexamples is also generates
painful feelings for me, but Iwill share it.
So, thinking about snakes for me, like I am really scared of
snakes and I'm not scared ofmany things, but snakes I'm
(15:57):
really scared of it and so I canthink about snakes and be
actually really interested inthinking about them.
Where I live in Vermont, we'reacross the lake from a place
where there are rattlesnakes inthe mountains, and there's a lot
of folklore about theserattlesnakes, right?
Such as that they follow theseboundaries, so like they go only
(16:19):
to a certain point around themountain, but they don't cross
over any certain lines.
There's also people who claimto see them swim, and I find
this kind of these stories aboutthese rattlesnakes very
interesting to think about.
Right?
How can a snake follow aboundary?
How can a snake swim, right?
All of these things I findreally interesting to think
(16:39):
about.
Yet place that I want to be in,even though it makes me shake
(17:01):
it and have uncomfortablefeelings, right.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
So you find snakes interesting, but you're not
happy when you're around them.
That's what it is yes.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Nor am I happy when I'm thinking about them.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
No, I sure am not myself.
I don't know what it is aboutsnakes and I don't think it's
biblical, but when I see one itscares me.
If it's coming towards me itreally does.
I know that I could probablyhandle the situation, but yes, I
find them very interesting,what they do, the different
types, varieties, so yeah, I dosee the difference.
(17:32):
Very good point In your book,the Art of Interesting, you
discuss what we're missing.
What are we missing?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I think we're missing psychological richness.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Can you describe how we go about enhancing our
psychological richness?
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and so the way to go
about thinking about how youcan really develop more
psychological richness withinyour lives is to really think
about the conditions that it'scorrelated with and then to put
yourself in those conditions.
Right, so it's not the kind ofthing that we can plan to pursue
(18:08):
directly, right, because thattakes away all of the
interesting parts of it, butwhat we can do is look at the
research.
So here's what we know thatpsychological richness is
primarily correlated with.
So it crops up in situations ofnovelty, complexity and
challenge.
So we can develop morepsychological richness in our
(18:30):
lives by allowing ourselves tobe in challenging positions and
seeking out the complexity inthe world, and also by seeking
out novelty or discoveringnovelty around us.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Should we be reading more?
Should we be watching a littlebit more PBS than on television,
as opposed to watching theserials that we have that are
shoot-em-ups and all of that?
I mean, are we going in thewrong direction as a society,
where we're focusing on thewrong things rather than
(19:06):
enriching our minds?
Is that kind of what you'resaying?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, I think there is that sense in which, as a
society, we do tend to focus onthe wrong things, but I also
really believe and I think youstarted out with this right that
what each person findsinteresting is very unique and
specific to them, and so I'mhesitant to say that.
There's one thing like startreading more, find documentaries
(19:33):
.
These are all sources,potential sources, of
psychologically rich experiences, but it also depends on what's
really activating the individual.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Good point.
Now there's something youmentioned in your book that's
interesting, because we facedaily obstacles, things that
really bother us, things thatchallenge us.
You mentioned in your bookturning obstacles into
adventures.
Can you explain that?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah, yeah.
So obstacle, like thinkingabout something in terms of an
obstacle, it really just shutsyou down.
Right, you put all theseexpectations on it, these bad
expectations, and it's reallygonna, you know, close off any
possibilities for you.
But if you stop just seeing itas an obstacle and instead just
bring openness to see whathappens, then you'll be more apt
(20:23):
to have a psychologically richexperience.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
So is this, by any chance, where the power of
positive thinking comes in?
Let's say, an older adult who'sfacing some serious illnesses
or medical challenges, so tospeak?
As we age, obviously morethings come into our life that
become obstacles, really bigobstacles.
So the utilization of thepositive thinking approach is
(20:52):
this helpful in those situations?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
You know the positive thinking approach.
It certainly can be helpful,right.
But I think we ought to bereally aware of the potential
for toxic positivity to creep in, and by that I mean a form of
positivity that really refusesto acknowledge the challenge
(21:15):
itself, right?
So there's a way in which wecan interact and it's a tempting
way and it's always motivatedby a great place where we think
it'll be more helpful for aperson to just not think about
the challenges or to say thatyou know, no, it's actually not
that bad and you know, really,we can, we can think of it this
(21:36):
way.
Or even just like for people toengage with, people with, with
someone who's suffering, and noteven recognize that suffering
because we think that'll that'llhurt them somehow.
We think that being positivewill, will help them somehow.
I think that approach can bevery hurtful to someone who is
(21:57):
suffering, right, if someone'ssuffering, we need to recognize
their suffering.
We don't want to.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
We need to acknowledge it.
To overcome the obstacle.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Yeah, yeah, we need to see it first.
Right, and we don't, you know,we don't want to erase it for
them, don't you know we don'twant to erase it for them.
If they're suffering, theyprobably, you know they can't
erase their challenges, andsuggesting that they do is, I
think it can be problematic.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I understand.
So, in conclusion, Dr Besser,let's get back to the theme of
happiness.
Professor, let's get back tothe theme of happiness.
Can you summarize your visionof achieving happiness on a
daily basis?
I mean what's required toachieve happiness to keep life
(22:49):
interesting.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah, so I think that on a daily basis, what we can
do is really be aware and moreconscious of what we're
experiencing.
So simply by being aware of,you know, when we feel positive
affect blooming right, and thento let it go right and be really
experienced in the moment as itcomes.
(23:11):
And likewise, I think we canreally pay attention to things
that are stimulating our mindsand allow that to happen and
allow psychological richness todevelop out of that and
reminding ourselves of whenwe're stuck and that you know
there are moments, even when youhave a pressing deadline,
you're still driving to work.
(23:32):
You can look around yourenvironment as you drive to work
and take in something new,bring some curiosity to it, have
an interesting experience.
You haven't done anythingdifferent, you haven't really
sacrificed any real mission orplan, but you've given yourself
a moment to really enjoy andexperience something that is
(23:54):
rewarding.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
You've opened your eyes and your mind.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yes, yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Well, dr Besser, I really want to thank you for
sharing such enlighteninginformation with us, and in a
moment, we're going to let mylisteners know where we can
learn more about you and yourgreat books, such as the
Philosophy of Happiness and theArt of Interesting, and I'll be
right back to discuss foods thatmake you happy.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
You can learn more about Dr Lorraine Besser and her
best-selling books, the Art ofInteresting and the Philosophy
of Happiness on our website,jamespolakoffcom.
You can also visit Dr LorraineBesser's website at
lorrainebessercom.
And here are three excellentbooks you can read or buy on
(24:42):
Amazon.
Live Healthy Longer with Dr Jimis written by our own Dr Jim
Polakoff, and don't forget toread those terrific reviews for
Live Healthy Longer with Dr Jimon Amazon.
Also, check out the Real youOnly Better giving you the
inside look into plastic surgeryand how you can make certain
(25:02):
your inner beauty blooms.
Plus, savor a fun and romanticstory about two above-par lovers
intertwined in the world ofgolf.
It is called Love in the Pines.
You can find all of theseterrific books on Amazoncom.
You can also visit our website,jamespolakoffcom.
That's James P-O-L-A-K-O-Fcom.
(25:26):
Now back to Dr Jim.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
I again wish to express my appreciation to Dr
Lorraine Besser for sharing herenlightening perspective on
happiness and, what'sinteresting, she certainly
imparted some good advice.
So let's go ahead andaccelerate our happiness by
discussing healthy foods thatmake you happy.
Now, did you know your body hasfeel-good chemicals?
(25:52):
Yes, there are two, namelyserotonin and dopamine.
Now, serotonin regulates yourmood and it promotes sleep,
while dopamine managesmotivation, attention and
emotional reward.
For example, the satisfactionyou feel when accomplishing a
goal is partly due to yourdopamine rush.
(26:15):
So what foods can we turn to toactivate these feel-good
chemicals?
First of all, it's back tofruits and veggies.
All vegetables and many fruitscontain complex carbohydrates,
(26:35):
which are important forstabilizing your mood.
Complex carbs can help in theproduction of serotonin.
Other sources of complex carbsinclude whole grain bread, brown
rice, whole grain pasta, beansand oats, for example.
Now, as a nutritionist, I alsorecommend oily fish like salmon,
trout, mackerel, even sardinesfish like salmon, trout,
(27:01):
mackerel, even sardines.
These are rich in omega-3 fattyacids and these are important
for brain function, along withcommunication, which are
stimulated by serotonin anddopamine.
There are many more tasty tipsto stimulate happiness, so I
suggest read my latest blogHealthy Foods that Make you
Happy.
Simply come to our website,jamespolikoffcom and click on
(27:24):
blogs, and remember that a newepisode of Live Healthy Longer
is available each and everyWednesday.
Every week, I'll be coveringimportant issues that affect our
well-being, including ourbodies, mind and soul.
This is Dr Jim Polakoff.
Thanks for joining me andpermit me to offer this
(27:46):
salutation.
Let's vow to live together,with understanding each other,
in good health, filled withhappiness and longevity, so you.
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