April 1, 2025 • 41 mins
Join Dr. Jim Polakof in a journey through the human body with his special guest, physician and author, Dr. Jonathan Reisman.
You’ll discover a unique perspective of life in this podcast odyssey that navigates our often hidden anatomy - revealing new secrets and unusual facts about our “unseen” organs.
Links from this Episode:
Visit Dr. Reisman's website https://www.jonathanreisman.com/
Read his book "The Unseen Body" or his articles
Follow @AnatomyEats on Instagram, Youtube, Twitter, and Tiktok
Watch a PBS/WHYY segment on an Anatomy Eats dinner in Philly with chef Ari Miller
Let's Get Social ...
Visit my website click here
Facebook Click Here
Instagram Click Here
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to another episode of Live Healthy Longer
with Dr Jim.
Today, most Americans are soconsumed with their appearance
that little time is spentexamining their internal organs
of their bodies.
In this episode, we have a nicesurprise for you.
This podcast is supported byAmazon Books.
(00:28):
Their slogan is everything fromA to Z, and I'll have two great
reading recommendations for youat the conclusion of this
episode.
So here's our host, healthcarespecialist author and very
popular podcaster, dr JimPolikoff.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
This is Dr Jim Polikoff, and I've got an
interesting question for you.
Wouldn't it be nice to seeinside our bodies?
We might be surprised todiscover some very startling
facts.
Now, my special guest for thisnew episode of Live Healthy
Longer is a well-known physician, dr Jonathan Reisman.
(01:04):
Dr Reisman is the author of thebest-selling book the Unseen
Body A Doctor's Journey Throughthe Hidden Wonders of Human
Anatomy.
Dr Reisman has practicedmedicine in some of the world's
most remote places, includingAntarctica, nepal, appalachia
and Kaltada, india.
(01:24):
Additionally, he's been withMassachusetts General Hospital
for many years and his writingshave also been published in the
New York Times and WashingtonPost.
So let's get right to it.
Welcome, dr Reisman.
I am aware that you now residein Philadelphia, but why has it
been important to your knowledgeand your book the Unseen Body,
(01:48):
to practice medicine in allthose areas of the world which I
mentioned in the introduction?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Well, I had a kind of incurable wanderlust since
around the time I was auniversity student, my two great
passions, before I ever went tomedical school or ever wanted
to be a doctor, was travelingjust seeing different parts of
the world, different cultures,experiencing different, you know
, viewpoints and life ways,especially ones very different
(02:15):
from the ones I was familiarwith, but also exploring the
natural world.
And of course those two thingsgo together where when you you
know you travel, you seedifferent ecosystems, different
climates, different latitudesand altitudes.
You kind of see how both humanculture and plants and animal
species sort of change withdifferent parts of the world,
different geographic extremes.
And so I brought those same twopassions to the practice of
(02:38):
medicine and since I finished mytraining I always kind of
sought out working in placeswith interesting cultural
contexts and interestinggeographic contexts, which sort
of led me to a lot of the placesthat you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, that makes sense, because I was very
interested, as I was goingthrough your book, to find out
how you more or less tailoredcertain aspects or certain
chapters to a particular areathat you're in.
As I understand it, in additionto your practice as an internal
medicine an internist, I shouldsay your interest in unseen
anatomy of our bodies came fromthe study of cadavers.
(03:15):
What jumped out to you duringthis period I'm not sure jumped
out is the best way to put it.
I don't mean ghost, of course,but that's a little levity.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, so you know, dissecting a cadaver sort of for
a long time been a part of sortof, you know, part of the
initiation rites of medicalschool, becoming a doctor.
And for me that began on thevery first day of medical school
I believe it was right afterlunch perhaps they led us into
the anatomy lab, which is theclass where we would dissect a
cadaver over the coming months,and even though, you know, on
that first day we actually onlygot to the superficial muscle of
(03:52):
the cadaver's back, so mycadaver, shared with three other
students, was lying face downon a gurney and that day all we
got to was sort of pulling backsome skin off the back and
looking at muscles like thelatissimus dorsi or lats, and
the trapezius and othersuperficial muscles.
And even though we didn't reallyget very deep into the cadaver,
didn't get into the inner organ, it still sort of really struck
(04:14):
me and sort of took hold of my,took hold of my interests and I
found that look inside the body, even though it wasn't that
deep, to be very enlighteningand very.
You know, in a way I was sortof looking at what's inside my
own body as well as inside thebody of every other person I
would ever meet or, you know,every patient I would ever see
(04:34):
the doctor diagnosed and treat.
And so that look behind thecurtain of the body, if you will
, sort of really made meobsessed with wanting to learn
and see everything about thebody and I even decided before
the end of that first day Iwanted to donate my own body for
that same medical schooldissection, because I was so
involved.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Which you have done correctly.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yes, I made plans for that to happen and I still want
that to be my fate to have mycarcass picked apart by a bunch
of nervous medical students.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
That's a good way of putting it.
Now, there's such valuableinformation in your book and of
course I'm encouraging mylisteners to pick up a copy, but
in the meantime I'll focus onselected topics.
For example, let's begin withthe heart.
In chapter two, you compare thepractice of medicine to
plumbing, and one of thedeadliest plumbing problems
(05:28):
actually is the heart attack.
Can you expand on this andshare your perspective?
As far as prevention and repairwhat you learned?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Sure.
So so many of the diseases thataffect our bodies can be boiled
down to plumbing.
You know there's two basicproblems with plumbing there's
clogs where some you know liquidis not flowing appropriately,
and there's leaks, where liquidis sort of leaking out of the
pipe that should be inside of,and a lot of diseases, as you
mentioned you know, boil down tothose two problems, especially
(05:57):
the clog.
So with a heart attack, right,we all know about hardening of
the arteries and we getatherosclerotic plaques in the
walls of the arteries and thistends to put us at risk of heart
attacks, as well as moststrokes, which are also called
by a blood clot, basicallystopping up the flow of blood.
So a heart attack, which cancause pain, trouble breathing,
(06:19):
um, uh, you know, is basicallycaused by a sudden blood clot
completely stopping up the bloodflow through one of the
coronary arteries or one of thebranches of the coronary
arteries.
So, just like when your toiletgets clogged, nothing flows
things back up.
It causes big problems,especially for the cells of the
heart, like every cell in thebody, must receive blood flow
(06:39):
every second of life, not onlybringing oxygen but also
nutrients and washing away wasteproducts as well.
And if that stops, even for aminute, cells can start to die,
which can kill you in the caseof a large stroke or a heart
attack.
And so, basically,cardiologists, when there is
such a heart attack, they dosomething very similar to
(07:01):
snaking a drain they thread acatheter, often from the big
artery in the groin or the wristall the way up to that very
tiny blood clot in the coronaryarteries, and basically, you
know, get it out of the way,suck it up, put a stent to keep
the pipe open and reestablishflow.
And so reestablishing flow is ahuge part of treating a large
(07:23):
portion of the diseases thatafflict us.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So in your travels, I mean, were there things that
you learned that you mightimpart some advice in terms of
prevention of cardiovasculardisease?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Sure.
So you know, I guess the youknow, as you mentioned, heart
disease still is a major killerof people.
You know at the top of the listpretty much.
So you know, I guess the waysto prevent it are.
You don't have any specialinsight beyond the things that
are mostly well-known, which is,you know, a healthy lifestyle,
including nutrition and exercise, but also preventing the risk
(08:00):
factors for heart disease.
So of course, smoking is one ofthe, you know, sort of the
biggest ones that you can.
You know quitting smoking isprobably one of the greatest
ways to reduce yourcardiovascular risk.
But other things that you know,avoiding hypertension and or
treating it when you have it, aswell as cholesterol, diabetes,
either type one or two.
You can't really change yourgenes or your gender.
(08:22):
You know men are at higher riskat a younger age.
You can't change your age, sothere's some things you can
modify.
But of course there are somethings you can, and you know
there's a lot of new treatmentslike fish oil.
You know it seemed like thatwas very promising.
I'm not sure the evidence showsit.
As good as it was, I stillcertainly believe that eating
fish is very healthy.
I agree, eating these fish oilcapsules.
(08:44):
I think the evidence is not asstrong as it seemed at first,
which is a cycle we go through alot in medicine where something
seems like it's going to be thenew cure-all and then, once we
study it in more depth, werealize yes, maybe it helps not
as much as we initially thought.
It's not the lifesaver fountainof use we might have portrayed
it as initially.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I'm also quite interested.
In your chapter on genitals youwrite the following the
strangest rhythm in the humanbody and the one that seems to
break all rules pertains togenitals.
What do you mean by thatstatement?
Speaker 3 (09:18):
So when I was in medical school, I was struck by.
One of the things I was struckby was how so much of what I
learned about how the human bodyworks is a rhythm or a cycle.
Everything just happens againand again and again.
The heart fills with blood andthen squeezes to empty, fills
with blood, squeezes to emptyevery minute of every day of our
lives, from before birth untildeath.
And similarly, every organ hasits cycle.
(09:41):
You know, the gastrointestinaltract, of course, receives the
meal each, you know, three timesa day.
The gallbladder fills with bileand then empties.
To help you digest, thepancreas creates enzymes and
then squeezes them into the gut.
The bladder fills with urineand empties, fills with urine
and empties.
The rectum fills with stool andempties.
Everything has this cycle.
(10:06):
And I noticed that, you know,the cycles of the genitals are
unusual, especially menstruation, which kind of has this, it's
sort of an archetypal rhythm ofthe human body, so much so that
we call it a period itself, youknow, because it is so, so
rhythmic and its rhythm isfollowed.
You know, it's unusual partlybecause it's a very slow rhythm.
It only happens every monththat the lining of the uterus
grows and then is shed inmenstruation and it also doesn't
(10:28):
start for over a decade afterbirth, which makes it very
unusual as well.
Many rhythms, especiallybreathing, start right after
birth.
Some things start before birthand then all the cycles sort of
catch up in that first week ormonth of life.
But menstruation takes 10 yearsor more to start.
And perhaps the most unusualaspect of it at all is, you know
, in most of these other rhythmsI mentioned, when they stop or
(10:51):
become too fast or too slow orstop altogether, it's a cause of
disease, sometimes deadlydisease, if one of these rhythms
stops.
But with menstruation, thestopping of the rhythm seems
almost to be the point of therhythm in the first place,
because obviously whenmenstruation stops it's
pregnancy or a sign of pregnancy.
It can be a sign of anythingtoo, but it's usually the first
(11:12):
and earliest sign of pregnancy.
So when that rhythm stops itsort of arrests.
You know, it's almost the goalof the rhythm in the first place
, which is very different fromother parts of the body.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, following along that track, what happens after
post-menstruation?
Are there additional concernsas far as the woman is concerned
, since they're beyond themenstruation period now?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
So menopause, obviously, is another cessation
of the menstrual rhythm whichdoes cause a lot of bodily
changes, causes a lot of newsymptoms.
I wouldn't, you know, perhapsmenopause is not the point of
menstruation in the first place,but I, you know, at some point.
(11:55):
Of course, the ovaries, whichyou know, when a child is, a
female, is born, they have allthe ovum, all the ova, all the
eggs in their ovaries that theywill ever have for the rest of
their life.
They're sort of just in thisfrozen stasis and eventually,
you know, you run out of themand you're, you know, the
gynecologic organs sort of justbecome older and less able to
keep it up and they do end.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
In other words, perhaps there should be more of
a watchful period of time then,since after you get into the
menopause period, if you're awoman, I think that's kind of
important to relate to those inour audience who are beyond that
stage.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Absolutely.
It's a very big part of lifeand a big milestone for the
human body, of course.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
You identified.
Dr Reisman, you identified theliver as the body's gatekeeper.
I thought that was interestingand you also mentioned that as
you understood more about theliver, it changed your
perspective of disease, life andeven food.
Can you elaborate on that?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
The liver is really an amazing organ that does so
much in our bodies.
It's our largest internal organ.
The skin is larger, but it'snot an amazing organ that does
so much in our bodies.
It's our largest internal organ, you know, the skin is larger
but it's not an internal organ.
So the liver really oversees somuch of how our body works and
how the homeostasis ismaintained.
It's the gatekeeper because ina way it sort of oversees all of
(13:15):
digestion, all of blood, all ofthe blood flow that goes to our
guts, our alimentary canals,that picks up all the nutrients
and other things that we eat.
All of it goes to the liverdirectly before going anywhere
else in the body, almost to besort of surveyed, checked.
The liver sort of sees what'sbeen absorbed, packages it up,
(13:37):
you know packages protein andfats and cholesterol and sugar
and everything else that we see.
You know determines ifsomething's toxic and should be
detoxified, which the liveraccomplishes itself in many
cases.
So the liver kind of overseeseverything that comes into the
body through our alimentarycanal.
You know a primary way that theexternal world gets inside of
(13:58):
us.
You know the lungs is one way,through the air, of course, but
the gut is the other major waythat the outside world gets into
us becomes part of us, and theliver oversees basically that
process whereby what we eatbecomes us.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Right, and that's part of the problem If we don't
take good care of, you know, the.
Our diet obviously isreflective, particularly, for
example, I would imagine, if youhad your gallbladder removed,
which many people do after theage of 50 or 60, that puts
additional stress on the liver,I would imagine.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yes, it can.
You know the liver does stillcreate bile, you know, which
helps us digest.
It's just that the gallbladderisn't there to sort of store up
a big amount of bile and squirtall at once into the gut.
But in some ways there is somecompensation.
You know, the bile ducts comingout of the liver do get bigger
so that they can sort of store abit more bile.
(14:50):
You know they don't compensatefor the entire gallbladder being
missing, but they do.
You know it's a good example ofhow the body kind of you know,
whatever we do, whether formedical reasons, remove parts of
the body kind of you know,whatever we do, whether for
medical reasons, remove parts ofthe body, move things around
the body really is so expert atcompensating.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
So the body adapts to and I think that's an important
point to make that you'vediscovered in your findings,
then, that the body can adapt.
Even if there is major surgery,things of that nature, it has a
wonderful way of adapting to,whatever your new situation is.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Exactly and it's surprising how well it can adapt
.
I recently saw a patient andthis has happened several times
in my career where I end updoing a CT scan on their head
for some reason Maybe they gotinjured, maybe they're confused,
something and seeing a verylarge cyst, sometimes taking up
almost half the space in theskull.
(15:42):
And this is an adult who'slived their whole life and never
knew about this cyst andthey're a completely normal
intelligent neurologic function.
You know, despite having thismassive cyst pretty much equal
to the size of their brain andthis has happened several times
in my career where it's a simplearachnoid cyst and you can see
the brain smushed over to oneside, and it's just incredible
(16:03):
that it can work normally.
It can compensate for beingsmushed into half the size of
the skull in these people.
And that's just one otherexample of how well the body can
compensate.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Well, we're kind of touching on the next subject.
Then, when we say mind overmatter, this is a literal
statement.
Actually.
The brain is indeed an elusivearea of study.
So you went high into theHimalayan mountains to study the
brain phenomena.
So tell us about your journeyand what you found.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Sure, so I was a volunteer physician with the
Himalayan Rescue Association in2016.
I worked at about 12,000 feetabove sea level in the Nepalese
village of Manang, which is on avery popular trekking route.
There I treated trekkers, bothNepali and foreign trekkers, as
well as porters, guides andlocal people who were all sort
(16:54):
of either living there orpassing through.
I was struck by the kind ofmultifaceted connection between
the brain and the mountain whileI was struck by the kind of
multifaceted connection betweenthe brain and the mountain while
I was there.
You know, for starters,altitude sickness, which is a
very mysterious aspect of humanhealth, and I learned very
little about medical school OnceI got there and got a crash
course in and I saw thataltitude sickness really affects
(17:15):
the brain more than any otherorgan.
It affects the lung sometimestoo, but it's really brain
swelling that is responsible forthe large majority of symptoms
people experience at altitude,as well as the large majority of
altitude sickness related deathat altitude.
So the higher you go above sealevel, especially when you
ascend fast and outstrip yourbody's ability to acclimate, the
(17:36):
brain can be swollen, and so Itreated a lot of patients with
so the higher you go, your brainactually does swell at that
point.
So it's at more risk of swelling.
You know, the higher you go,and especially the more you
ascend in one day, the moreheight you gain in one day.
That also puts you at risk thekind of the higher you are to
(17:57):
start with, the higher the riskis to begin with, which is why
people, when they're climbingvery high mountains you know if
you've ever seen the routepeople take to climb Everest
there's a lot of up and back andup and back.
two steps forward, one step back, you know, to give the body
time to acclimate.
You're already so high to start.
Even Everest base camp is muchhigher than where I was
(18:18):
stationed with Manet, and thenthat's just the start of your
trek.
But you know, the mountains andthe brain are connected in so
many other ways.
So the brain obviously is ourhighest altitude internal organ,
at least when we're upright.
But also, you know, we go tothe mountains for a variety of
reasons.
While I was in Nepal I spoke toseveral Tibetan Buddhist lamas
(18:39):
who sort of retreat to themountains to sort of meditate
for much of the day and sort of,you know, do their spiritual
and religious practices.
So it's sort of, in a way,going to the mountains is this
retreat into the mind, a placewhere people can get away from
sort of the busy, noisy aspectsof daily life that sort of go on
in the valleys, you know,getting up to the clean air, a
(19:01):
way above the flow of humanpollution, where you can be
alone with your thoughts.
You know the big part of whypeople go to the mountains as
well.
So I kind of liked all those,all those connections between
the brain and the mountains and,as you said, mind over matter.
The brain itself has thisinternal structure of height in
a way.
(19:21):
At the base is the brainstemwhich sort of just controls the
body function, the heartbeat,the breathing rate.
It's sort of a robotic controlover the body itself.
And then, as you ascend higherand higher, you get to the
emotions which are a bit morecomplicated, sort of perhaps the
first inkling of the mind.
And then, if you go even higherto the cerebral cortex, that's
where sort of you know, quoteunquote the magic happens and
(19:43):
where the sort of brain ends andthe mind begins and sort of
reflects the mysteries as you gohigher and higher into the
mountains and the physiology ofthe human body becomes more and
more understood.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Is your mind encouraged at that point to
meditate?
Is that what you're saying?
That the higher you go, theneventually you know?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
you get into more of a meditative state.
I mean, I do think that justgetting away from society, you
know, can put you in a moremeditative state.
It can be harder to think orreflect on our lives, you know,
from the bustle of daily lifeand sort of going to the
mountains inherently meansgetting away from that.
I mean, I also noticed it'svery hard to breathe up there.
You know, I was out of breathpretty much the whole two months
I was there.
Even toweling off after ashower got me out of breath and
(20:28):
my oxygen level was in the mid80s which, if you know, in my
sea level emergency room where Iwork, that would be very
concerning.
But up there it was normal and Igot out of breath in simple
conversation.
But up there it was normal andI got out of breath in simple
conversation.
And I think that, you know,even that kind of gives you some
(20:48):
pause and makes you sort ofreflect on your own body and how
sort of fragile it is,especially up in that thin air.
And I do think that it does.
Going to the mountainsinherently, you know, shows you
these beautiful vistas, showsyou how small we are.
Each of our bodies is sofragile in the face of these
harsh rock and ice environmentswhere nothing can survive, and I
think that does put you in aspiritual frame of mind.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Interesting.
Well, one of the things inrelation to brain function that
I just you touched on in yourbook, and I'm just curious about
what your conclusions are interms of you discussed marijuana
, for example, and alcohol.
How do those two substancesbasically affect your brain,
your thought process?
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Intoxicants like alcohol and marijuana help us
understand how different partsof the brain work.
You know, when we go about ourdaily lives, our subjectivity,
our consciousness, our minds, itfeels like this unified whole
experience.
But we've known for over acentury that you know, the brain
is geographic.
The brain is broken down intoparts, and different parts of
(21:51):
the brain add something to ourexperience of subjectivity.
So, even though it appears tobe this unified and fluid whole,
it really is broken down into,you know, our memories, what we
see, what we hear, what we taste, and so different parts of the
brain each contributes its ownpart to that whole, and
intoxicants can be illustrativein how they affect different
(22:14):
parts.
For instance, affects thecerebellum, which plays a big
role in coordination and balanceand helps you sort of move
fluidly and do the daily taskslike walking or anything else
you do with your hands, sosomebody who's had too much to
drink.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
You see them stumbling around.
That's that effect.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Exactly, and alcohol specifically affects the
cerebellum, and so that's whyyou get those results, which is
actually, coincidentally, verysimilar to people with severe
brain swelling at altitude, highaltitude cerebral edema, the
condition's called.
We diagnose it the same way byhaving them walk a line like a,
you know, policeman might at atraffic stop, and when, that
same lack of coordination, youknow, when we see that, assuming
(22:55):
they have not actually drankalcohol, we, you know, we know
that their brain swelling is ata critical point and we have to
treat them and get them todescend further.
But you know, and marijuanaobviously affects other parts.
It affects parts of the brainrelated to memory, it affects
parts of the brain related tohunger, in a good way or a bad
way.
Well, you know, if you're, ifyou're a kind of patient with
(23:17):
cancer getting chemotherapy, andyour appetite appetite is
non-existent, that increase inappetite can be very beneficial.
That's why marijuana is a goodappetite stimulant.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
There's not many other great appetite stimulants
in modern medicine.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
so that is a good one If it's part of a no-exercise
lifestyle and sitting on thecouch eating Cheetos maybe that
increase in appetite is not ashealthy for the body.
So context always matters.
You know, a poison becomes amedicine just depending on the
context and dose and personreceiving it.
So those are important.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I think, one important question I wanted to
delve into.
Unlike other elements of thehuman body, we understand far
less about the mind andobviously you know the mind in a
sense is connected to the brain.
But how does our mind relate toour brain?
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I think a big part of it is this kind of geographic
breakdown of the brain.
You know, I think there's beenso many theories about how to
break the brain down.
You know there's some olderones where we sort of called the
lower functions the lizardbrain and then a step up from
that was the mammalian brain andthen a step above that was the
neo-mammalian brain.
You know, this hierarchy ofanimals to sort of reflect the
(24:32):
hierarchy of complexity offunction in the brain.
You know that's sort of notthat specific scheme is not in
vogue anymore but there are manyothers.
But I really think, you know, Iguess everyone's take on the
mind might be a little different, and I don't I don't discount
any, any view at all- Well, forexample, you see the brain, but
(24:53):
you don't really see the mind.
Right, you don't see the mind.
You know clearly there's aconnection right Because you
know, injuries to the brainobviously can affect the mind,
especially strokes.
Strokes, for instance, can bevery illustrative of brain
function because it's almostlike a living experiment, in
that you get the depth of asmall area of the brain
(25:13):
sometimes large but moreillustrative if it's a very
small area and then see whatsort of function that person
lacks.
You know, a very small strokemight make someone be unable to
recognize faces.
It might cut out vision just tothe lower outer corner of their
vision, you know, or half theirvision or, you know, depending
(25:34):
where the stroke is.
It can affect everything frommemory to the fluidity of speech
and I feel like that reallyillustrates how sort of broken
down the brain is.
I mean, if someone forced me tocreate my own theory of the
mind, I would say that it justis a million different functions
of the brain sort of stitchedtogether into what we experience
as a whole, when actually it'ssort of a million different
functions of the brain sort ofstitched together into the, into
(25:54):
what we experienced as a whole,when actually it's sort of a
million parts all just workingtogether.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And there's nothing more than that.
You don't compare it to thesoul, for example, which again
is imaginary in a sense.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I mean I don't think so, but you know it's some.
I fully accept if other peopledo believe that or see the mind
differently.
I mean we'll be debating thisfor the next 10,000 years, as
we've been debating it for thelast 10,000.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
And I love debating so I'm open to all ideas.
Well, it's interesting in yourbook that you describe the skin
as being intelligent.
That's a different perspective.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Can you elaborate on that?
Yeah, so the skin.
You know I was fascinated withthe skin before medical school,
as they say in the chapter Ilearned to.
I learned a lot of kind ofprehistoric craft and really
loved especially the, the craftof skin tanning or tanning
animal hides, which I reallytook to and loved.
And then when I got, you knowso the skin was sort of had a
special place in my heartbecause I had gained some skill
(26:53):
and some experience in thatcraft and really loved it.
When I got to medical school, asI mentioned, with our cadaver,
you know, the skin was almosttreated as sort of wrapping
paper where you just tear it off, get it out of the way and sort
of get onto the goal, thepresent inside.
And it was.
We kind of ignored it inanatomy lab, which I was, you
know, not thrilled with, butthen we learned about it in some
(27:14):
more detail, like in histologyclass, pathology class.
So basically the skin has thismagical ability to predict the
future in a way.
You know, when sun shines onyour skin, the skin senses it
and senses the need to protectDNA and skin cells from the
ionizing radiation from the sun.
So skin darkens, it tans, andwhen you look at tan skin under
(27:40):
the microscope you actually seejust this tiny little plug of
pigment, a tiny little bit ofpigment right in front of the
nuclei of all the cells just tosort of create this wall against
ionizing radiation, only forthe DNA, because that's really
the only part that's susceptibleto mutation from the radiation.
So it's almost predicting thefuture, predicting more sunshine
to come and protecting itselfas a result.
And you see that sameintelligence with calluses.
(28:02):
So when our skin experiencesfriction it sort of thickens and
hardens into these calluses,almost in anticipation of more
friction coming in the future.
So in a way skin seems reallyintelligent in those two ways.
Not to mention when we getwounds.
People coming to the ER foropen skin wounds, cuts et cetera
are a huge part of my daily job, closing those wounds and I
(28:25):
usually sew them shut, mostlyfor cosmetic reasons but to
reduce the eventual scar.
But almost all of those willclose on their own because skin
has this magical ability tocells migrate from the edges of
the wound into fill the defectand just regrows.
And you know, you do get maybea less than beautiful scar, but
skin sort of magically has thisability to, you know close
(28:49):
itself to keep the body'sinsides closed, away from the
outside.
So it's really an intelligentorgan.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Well, wouldn't it be nice if our internal organs had
the same capability as skin interms of protecting itself and
revitalizing itself?
In chapter 15 of your book, theUnseen Body, you write every
piece of our bodies, every bitof flesh, requires a constant
flow of blood as a bare minimumto stay alive.
(29:17):
So what do we need to knowabout blood and how to keep it
healthy so that we surviveeffectively?
Speaker 3 (29:26):
The very basic job of the cardiovascular system is
for the heart to push bloodthrough this branching to
infinity vascular tree todeliver fresh, nutrient-filled
and oxygen-filled blood to thedoorstep of all trillion of our
cells, really every second.
You can think of it as almost areally large and complicated
(29:49):
drip irrigation system wherethis branching system of pipes
brings fresh water or, in thecase of the body, fresh blood to
every.
You know, the base of everyplant in the garden, the base of
every cell.
And if that stops for even someseconds, you know, besides
causing tremendous pain,depending on where that is, that
could be in the heart, with aheart attack or elsewhere.
(30:11):
You know it's those plants, ifyou will, those cells start to
wither and die as they mightwithout getting the water needed
from drip irrigation.
So you know, in a way, gettingoxygen to your cells is sort of
the most basic, most basicfunction that blood must
accomplish.
And that's harder, you know, ataltitude, for instance, like I
(30:33):
said, my oxygen was low and youfind that your body doesn't
quite work as well.
You get all these weirdsymptoms, you get this
mysterious brain swelling, andall of that is very poorly
understood.
Clearly, the flow of blood isnecessary.
You know, beyond oxygen, itbrings a whole lot of other
nutrients and I think you know,reflecting diet, reflecting
lifestyle, avoiding toxins.
(30:54):
And I think you know reflectingdiet, reflecting lifestyle,
avoiding toxins, you know kindof an important way to keep your
blood healthy, keep what itdelivers to your cells healthy
as well.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Here again, it's important what you're eating,
because you are what you eat, asthey say.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Exactly it's true, physiologically.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Now, during your interview that I listened to on
NPR, which I found fascinating,you host these dinners where
attendees actually eat internalorgans, as I understand.
The obvious question is why andwhat do people learn from these
dinners that you host?
Speaker 3 (31:32):
That's correct.
So I host me and the chefteamed up to have dinners called
Anatomy Eats.
We've held several at the FreePublic Library here in Chile and
Anatomy Eats is basically sortof exactly what you might expect
when a doctor and a chef gettogether.
So for each of those dinners Isort of bring my knowledge of
anatomy and physiology of thehuman body and, by extension, of
(31:53):
animal bodies.
And then, you know, I sort ofbring my knowledge of anatomy
and physiology of the human bodyand, by extension, of animal
bodies, and then, you know, wesort of talk about interesting
body parts, internal organs, andthen, while talking about them
and exploring how fascinatingand complex they are, we serve
dishes made with those organs.
So for instance we had a dinnerbased on the cardiovascular
system where we talked all aboutthe heart and me and the chef
(32:15):
dissected a cow's heart, whichis quite large, in front of the
audience.
We ended up serving threespecies of heart cooked in three
different ways.
We served some blood sausageand we served bone marrow, where
all the blood cells come from.
So that was the cardiovascularsystem dinner, and really the
goal is sort of just to havepeople think about how their own
body works and to understandhow what we eat from the
(32:38):
animal's bodies really is verysimilar, you know,
physiologically and anatomically.
And so I think that perspectivethe food perspective and the
anatomy perspective, sort ofcrammed together side by side
gives people interestingperspective on what they are
made of as well.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
So, in other words, I would imagine if you're eating
internal organs or you'reserving those genitals would be
a dish that you would serve, amI correct?
I mean a wide variety, dopeople?
Do you have others?
Anyone at the table who reallyfeels like this is not for them?
Or anyone at the table whoreally feels like this is not
(33:17):
for them?
Or, my God, I can't believe I'meating this, or do they feel
like it's delicious food.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Well, the food, you know, I have to say in my own
perspective, the food isdelicious.
Chef Ari Miller is really amaster at cooking these unusual
body parts.
I think our dinners tend to beselective in who they attract.
You know, I think someone whomight feel that way, as you just
laid out, might not buy aticket and come to one of these
dinners.
So it's sort of self-selectingfor people who are kind of
(33:42):
curious and adventurous eaters.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Well, I mean, I think it's just fascinating.
I mean, can people actuallyemail you, call in, try to put
themselves on a waiting list forone of your dinners?
And I'm assuming- since youlive in Pennsylvania, I mean or
Philadelphia, that's where thesedinners take place, I'm
guessing.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Correct.
That is where these dinnerstake place.
We might be taking the show onthe road in the near future, but
if people can go toanatomyeatscom they can find the
contact info and definitely youcan see a good segment there
that the WHYY PBS here in Phillydid on our musculoskeletal
dinner.
It really encompasses how thedinners work.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Now, that is fascinating.
Now, one of the questions thatI have is and just briefly as we
wind this up, dr Reisman, Iunderstand you operate a
nonprofit organization toimprove health care and
education in India.
Am I correct?
Speaker 3 (34:38):
That's right.
When I was a medical student, Itook a year off from medical
school and spent a bunch of timein India, including
volunteering for a charity basedin Calcutta called Calcutta
Rescue.
It was started by a Britishphysician in the late 70s and
has been growing ever since, andyou know there's so many
charities in Calcutta.
(34:59):
I saw while I was there and metother volunteers working for
various medical and educationalcharities, and I thought
Calcutta Rescue really stood outin delivering impressively high
quality medical care and highquality education to really some
of the poorest people I've everencountered living on the slum,
living in the slums of the cityor on the sidewalks itself.
(35:20):
Calcutta has a huge populationof homeless families and people.
I was really impressed with themedical care they were
providing.
I was impressed with how verycheap medications can treat you
know diseases like vitamin Asupplementation can prevent
blindness in children, and thesepills cost pennies, and so I
(35:42):
was just really amazed at howmuch good can be done with so
little, and so I started anonprofit when I got home, still
as a med student, to supportCalcutta Rescue and other
charities that are doing kind ofthe high quality work that
might have an impact on people.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Wonderful.
Well, it's good work that youdo.
There's no question about it.
I'm not certain that I'm evergoing to be hungry enough to
join you in one of your anatomyeating dinners.
I don't know that I have theintestinal fortitude to do that,
but I do wish to urge ourlisteners to promptly pick up a
(36:19):
copy of your book the UnseenBody and tell us a little bit
about how.
What's the best way that ourlisteners can go to find the
book right now if they want tobuy a copy?
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Sure, so I guess Amazon is the easiest.
You know there's other ways ofordering it Barnes, noble, as
well as other websites.
It's in your local bookstore aswell.
So if you want to support yourlocal bookstore, that's a worthy
cause.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
But any of those ways it should be available our
listeners that they can alwaysvisit our website,
bodymindsoulpodcastnet, to findmore information about Dr
Reisman and his excellent book,and we'll have all the
information on the website.
So I want to encourage ourlisteners, if they simply enough
(37:07):
, go to amazoncom, as Dr Reismansuggests.
It's the Unseen Body and that'sthe title of the book.
Actually I have a copy here.
It just says the Unseen Body, aDoctor's Journey Through the
Hidden Wonders of the HumanAnatomy.
Quite a title and I mean it'sjust a fascinating title
actually, and the book itself,having read through it, is
(37:29):
fascinating.
I want to thank you for thecopy of the book.
I found it overwhelminglyinteresting.
So I don't always sit and readsomething at one sitting, but I
did.
But in any case, I want tothank you very much, dr Reisman,
for joining us on the podcastand perhaps we'll have you back
again to talk more about othersubject matter.
(37:50):
We sort of touched the surface,sort of skin deep, as they say.
But in any case, thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
You can get a more vivid look inside your body by
going to Dr Reisman's website,jonathanreismancom, but you can
also find this information,along with many other great
podcasts, by coming directly toour website,
jamesamespolakoffcom.
That's james P-O-L-A-K-O-F dotcom.
Again, that's jamespolakoffcom.
(38:21):
We also have two great bookswith an inside look into health
and beauty.
My first recommendation is LiveHealthy Longer with Dr Jim,
written by our very own Dr JimPolakoff, but remember, you need
to add Dr Jim to the title.
So again, it's Live HealthyLonger with Dr Jim.
(38:42):
Plus, you'll also find a seriesof terrific reviews there.
Find all of this wonderfulinformation on Amazoncom.
Also, for those cosmeticsurgery beauty fans, the Real
you Only Better is a great read.
Again, you'll find both greatbooks on Amazon and our website,
jamespolikoffcom.
(39:03):
Now back to Dr Jim.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Well, I doubt I'll be hungry enough to join Dr
Reisman for one of his anatomyeating dinners anytime soon, but
I do want to thank him againfor an amazing inside look in
our bodies, and you're going towant to know more, so definitely
get to his website, whichobviously our narrator has
mentioned.
Now, since we've been examiningour internal organs, let's turn
(39:29):
to an often overlookedvegetable that offers some
surprising health benefits.
It may surprise you, but I'mreferring to a secret powerhouse
called celery.
Yes, there are many goodreasons to chomp on celery
sticks.
First of all, celery helps tolower cholesterol.
This is particularly importantfor older adults on a mission to
(39:51):
prevent or deal with heartdisease and strokes.
Celery also contains certaincompounds which serve to reduce
toxins in your body that canlead to cancer.
This amazing veggie also aids indigestion.
Raw celery contains fiber,which adds bulk to your stool
(40:13):
and, at the same time, softensit to prevent constipation.
Plus, celery maintainsnutritional benefits during
weight loss.
Its content of vitamin C,essential Bs, potassium and
electrolytes actually regulateyour metabolism and helps you
stay fuller longer.
(40:34):
But there's more.
So I invite you to read mylatest blog the Secret Health
Benefits of Celery.
All you have to do is come toour website, jamespolikoffcom,
and click on Blogs.
This is Dr Jim Polikoff, withmy sincere thanks for you
joining me once again.
(40:55):
And remember, a new episode ofLive Healthy Longer is available
each and every Wednesday.
So, in the meantime, my wishesto you for a healthy, happy,
long life.
Bye.
Welcome to another episode of Live Healthy Longer
with Dr Jim.
Today, most Americans are soconsumed with their appearance
that little time is spentexamining their internal organs
of their bodies.
In this episode, we have a nicesurprise for you.
This podcast is supported byAmazon Books.
(00:28):
Their slogan is everything fromA to Z, and I'll have two great
reading recommendations for youat the conclusion of this
episode.
So here's our host, healthcarespecialist author and very
popular podcaster, dr JimPolikoff.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
This is Dr Jim Polikoff, and I've got an
interesting question for you.
Wouldn't it be nice to seeinside our bodies?
We might be surprised todiscover some very startling
facts.
Now, my special guest for thisnew episode of Live Healthy
Longer is a well-known physician, dr Jonathan Reisman.
(01:04):
Dr Reisman is the author of thebest-selling book the Unseen
Body A Doctor's Journey Throughthe Hidden Wonders of Human
Anatomy.
Dr Reisman has practicedmedicine in some of the world's
most remote places, includingAntarctica, nepal, appalachia
and Kaltada, india.
(01:24):
Additionally, he's been withMassachusetts General Hospital
for many years and his writingshave also been published in the
New York Times and WashingtonPost.
So let's get right to it.
Welcome, dr Reisman.
I am aware that you now residein Philadelphia, but why has it
been important to your knowledgeand your book the Unseen Body,
(01:48):
to practice medicine in allthose areas of the world which I
mentioned in the introduction?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Well, I had a kind of incurable wanderlust since
around the time I was auniversity student, my two great
passions, before I ever went tomedical school or ever wanted
to be a doctor, was travelingjust seeing different parts of
the world, different cultures,experiencing different, you know
, viewpoints and life ways,especially ones very different
(02:15):
from the ones I was familiarwith, but also exploring the
natural world.
And of course those two thingsgo together where when you you
know you travel, you seedifferent ecosystems, different
climates, different latitudesand altitudes.
You kind of see how both humanculture and plants and animal
species sort of change withdifferent parts of the world,
different geographic extremes.
And so I brought those same twopassions to the practice of
(02:38):
medicine and since I finished mytraining I always kind of
sought out working in placeswith interesting cultural
contexts and interestinggeographic contexts, which sort
of led me to a lot of the placesthat you mentioned.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, that makes sense, because I was very
interested, as I was goingthrough your book, to find out
how you more or less tailoredcertain aspects or certain
chapters to a particular areathat you're in.
As I understand it, in additionto your practice as an internal
medicine an internist, I shouldsay your interest in unseen
anatomy of our bodies came fromthe study of cadavers.
(03:15):
What jumped out to you duringthis period I'm not sure jumped
out is the best way to put it.
I don't mean ghost, of course,but that's a little levity.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, so you know, dissecting a cadaver sort of for
a long time been a part of sortof, you know, part of the
initiation rites of medicalschool, becoming a doctor.
And for me that began on thevery first day of medical school
I believe it was right afterlunch perhaps they led us into
the anatomy lab, which is theclass where we would dissect a
cadaver over the coming months,and even though, you know, on
that first day we actually onlygot to the superficial muscle of
(03:52):
the cadaver's back, so mycadaver, shared with three other
students, was lying face downon a gurney and that day all we
got to was sort of pulling backsome skin off the back and
looking at muscles like thelatissimus dorsi or lats, and
the trapezius and othersuperficial muscles.
And even though we didn't reallyget very deep into the cadaver,
didn't get into the inner organ, it still sort of really struck
(04:14):
me and sort of took hold of my,took hold of my interests and I
found that look inside the body, even though it wasn't that
deep, to be very enlighteningand very.
You know, in a way I was sortof looking at what's inside my
own body as well as inside thebody of every other person I
would ever meet or, you know,every patient I would ever see
(04:34):
the doctor diagnosed and treat.
And so that look behind thecurtain of the body, if you will
, sort of really made meobsessed with wanting to learn
and see everything about thebody and I even decided before
the end of that first day Iwanted to donate my own body for
that same medical schooldissection, because I was so
involved.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Which you have done correctly.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yes, I made plans for that to happen and I still want
that to be my fate to have mycarcass picked apart by a bunch
of nervous medical students.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
That's a good way of putting it.
Now, there's such valuableinformation in your book and of
course I'm encouraging mylisteners to pick up a copy, but
in the meantime I'll focus onselected topics.
For example, let's begin withthe heart.
In chapter two, you compare thepractice of medicine to
plumbing, and one of thedeadliest plumbing problems
(05:28):
actually is the heart attack.
Can you expand on this andshare your perspective?
As far as prevention and repairwhat you learned?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Sure.
So so many of the diseases thataffect our bodies can be boiled
down to plumbing.
You know there's two basicproblems with plumbing there's
clogs where some you know liquidis not flowing appropriately,
and there's leaks, where liquidis sort of leaking out of the
pipe that should be inside of,and a lot of diseases, as you
mentioned you know, boil down tothose two problems, especially
(05:57):
the clog.
So with a heart attack, right,we all know about hardening of
the arteries and we getatherosclerotic plaques in the
walls of the arteries and thistends to put us at risk of heart
attacks, as well as moststrokes, which are also called
by a blood clot, basicallystopping up the flow of blood.
So a heart attack, which cancause pain, trouble breathing,
(06:19):
um, uh, you know, is basicallycaused by a sudden blood clot
completely stopping up the bloodflow through one of the
coronary arteries or one of thebranches of the coronary
arteries.
So, just like when your toiletgets clogged, nothing flows
things back up.
It causes big problems,especially for the cells of the
heart, like every cell in thebody, must receive blood flow
(06:39):
every second of life, not onlybringing oxygen but also
nutrients and washing away wasteproducts as well.
And if that stops, even for aminute, cells can start to die,
which can kill you in the caseof a large stroke or a heart
attack.
And so, basically,cardiologists, when there is
such a heart attack, they dosomething very similar to
(07:01):
snaking a drain they thread acatheter, often from the big
artery in the groin or the wristall the way up to that very
tiny blood clot in the coronaryarteries, and basically, you
know, get it out of the way,suck it up, put a stent to keep
the pipe open and reestablishflow.
And so reestablishing flow is ahuge part of treating a large
(07:23):
portion of the diseases thatafflict us.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So in your travels, I mean, were there things that
you learned that you mightimpart some advice in terms of
prevention of cardiovasculardisease?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Sure.
So you know, I guess the youknow, as you mentioned, heart
disease still is a major killerof people.
You know at the top of the listpretty much.
So you know, I guess the waysto prevent it are.
You don't have any specialinsight beyond the things that
are mostly well-known, which is,you know, a healthy lifestyle,
including nutrition and exercise, but also preventing the risk
(08:00):
factors for heart disease.
So of course, smoking is one ofthe, you know, sort of the
biggest ones that you can.
You know quitting smoking isprobably one of the greatest
ways to reduce yourcardiovascular risk.
But other things that you know,avoiding hypertension and or
treating it when you have it, aswell as cholesterol, diabetes,
either type one or two.
You can't really change yourgenes or your gender.
(08:22):
You know men are at higher riskat a younger age.
You can't change your age, sothere's some things you can
modify.
But of course there are somethings you can, and you know
there's a lot of new treatmentslike fish oil.
You know it seemed like thatwas very promising.
I'm not sure the evidence showsit.
As good as it was, I stillcertainly believe that eating
fish is very healthy.
I agree, eating these fish oilcapsules.
(08:44):
I think the evidence is not asstrong as it seemed at first,
which is a cycle we go through alot in medicine where something
seems like it's going to be thenew cure-all and then, once we
study it in more depth, werealize yes, maybe it helps not
as much as we initially thought.
It's not the lifesaver fountainof use we might have portrayed
it as initially.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I'm also quite interested.
In your chapter on genitals youwrite the following the
strangest rhythm in the humanbody and the one that seems to
break all rules pertains togenitals.
What do you mean by thatstatement?
Speaker 3 (09:18):
So when I was in medical school, I was struck by.
One of the things I was struckby was how so much of what I
learned about how the human bodyworks is a rhythm or a cycle.
Everything just happens againand again and again.
The heart fills with blood andthen squeezes to empty, fills
with blood, squeezes to emptyevery minute of every day of our
lives, from before birth untildeath.
And similarly, every organ hasits cycle.
(09:41):
You know, the gastrointestinaltract, of course, receives the
meal each, you know, three timesa day.
The gallbladder fills with bileand then empties.
To help you digest, thepancreas creates enzymes and
then squeezes them into the gut.
The bladder fills with urineand empties, fills with urine
and empties.
The rectum fills with stool andempties.
Everything has this cycle.
(10:06):
And I noticed that, you know,the cycles of the genitals are
unusual, especially menstruation, which kind of has this, it's
sort of an archetypal rhythm ofthe human body, so much so that
we call it a period itself, youknow, because it is so, so
rhythmic and its rhythm isfollowed.
You know, it's unusual partlybecause it's a very slow rhythm.
It only happens every monththat the lining of the uterus
grows and then is shed inmenstruation and it also doesn't
(10:28):
start for over a decade afterbirth, which makes it very
unusual as well.
Many rhythms, especiallybreathing, start right after
birth.
Some things start before birthand then all the cycles sort of
catch up in that first week ormonth of life.
But menstruation takes 10 yearsor more to start.
And perhaps the most unusualaspect of it at all is, you know
, in most of these other rhythmsI mentioned, when they stop or
(10:51):
become too fast or too slow orstop altogether, it's a cause of
disease, sometimes deadlydisease, if one of these rhythms
stops.
But with menstruation, thestopping of the rhythm seems
almost to be the point of therhythm in the first place,
because obviously whenmenstruation stops it's
pregnancy or a sign of pregnancy.
It can be a sign of anythingtoo, but it's usually the first
(11:12):
and earliest sign of pregnancy.
So when that rhythm stops itsort of arrests.
You know, it's almost the goalof the rhythm in the first place
, which is very different fromother parts of the body.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, following along that track, what happens after
post-menstruation?
Are there additional concernsas far as the woman is concerned
, since they're beyond themenstruation period now?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
So menopause, obviously, is another cessation
of the menstrual rhythm whichdoes cause a lot of bodily
changes, causes a lot of newsymptoms.
I wouldn't, you know, perhapsmenopause is not the point of
menstruation in the first place,but I, you know, at some point.
(11:55):
Of course, the ovaries, whichyou know, when a child is, a
female, is born, they have allthe ovum, all the ova, all the
eggs in their ovaries that theywill ever have for the rest of
their life.
They're sort of just in thisfrozen stasis and eventually,
you know, you run out of themand you're, you know, the
gynecologic organs sort of justbecome older and less able to
keep it up and they do end.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
In other words, perhaps there should be more of
a watchful period of time then,since after you get into the
menopause period, if you're awoman, I think that's kind of
important to relate to those inour audience who are beyond that
stage.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Absolutely.
It's a very big part of lifeand a big milestone for the
human body, of course.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
You identified.
Dr Reisman, you identified theliver as the body's gatekeeper.
I thought that was interestingand you also mentioned that as
you understood more about theliver, it changed your
perspective of disease, life andeven food.
Can you elaborate on that?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
The liver is really an amazing organ that does so
much in our bodies.
It's our largest internal organ.
The skin is larger, but it'snot an amazing organ that does
so much in our bodies.
It's our largest internal organ, you know, the skin is larger
but it's not an internal organ.
So the liver really oversees somuch of how our body works and
how the homeostasis ismaintained.
It's the gatekeeper because ina way it sort of oversees all of
(13:15):
digestion, all of blood, all ofthe blood flow that goes to our
guts, our alimentary canals,that picks up all the nutrients
and other things that we eat.
All of it goes to the liverdirectly before going anywhere
else in the body, almost to besort of surveyed, checked.
The liver sort of sees what'sbeen absorbed, packages it up,
(13:37):
you know packages protein andfats and cholesterol and sugar
and everything else that we see.
You know determines ifsomething's toxic and should be
detoxified, which the liveraccomplishes itself in many
cases.
So the liver kind of overseeseverything that comes into the
body through our alimentarycanal.
You know a primary way that theexternal world gets inside of
(13:58):
us.
You know the lungs is one way,through the air, of course, but
the gut is the other major waythat the outside world gets into
us becomes part of us, and theliver oversees basically that
process whereby what we eatbecomes us.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Right, and that's part of the problem If we don't
take good care of, you know, the.
Our diet obviously isreflective, particularly, for
example, I would imagine, if youhad your gallbladder removed,
which many people do after theage of 50 or 60, that puts
additional stress on the liver,I would imagine.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yes, it can.
You know the liver does stillcreate bile, you know, which
helps us digest.
It's just that the gallbladderisn't there to sort of store up
a big amount of bile and squirtall at once into the gut.
But in some ways there is somecompensation.
You know, the bile ducts comingout of the liver do get bigger
so that they can sort of store abit more bile.
(14:50):
You know they don't compensatefor the entire gallbladder being
missing, but they do.
You know it's a good example ofhow the body kind of you know,
whatever we do, whether formedical reasons, remove parts of
the body kind of you know,whatever we do, whether for
medical reasons, remove parts ofthe body, move things around
the body really is so expert atcompensating.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
So the body adapts to and I think that's an important
point to make that you'vediscovered in your findings,
then, that the body can adapt.
Even if there is major surgery,things of that nature, it has a
wonderful way of adapting to,whatever your new situation is.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Exactly and it's surprising how well it can adapt
.
I recently saw a patient andthis has happened several times
in my career where I end updoing a CT scan on their head
for some reason Maybe they gotinjured, maybe they're confused,
something and seeing a verylarge cyst, sometimes taking up
almost half the space in theskull.
(15:42):
And this is an adult who'slived their whole life and never
knew about this cyst andthey're a completely normal
intelligent neurologic function.
You know, despite having thismassive cyst pretty much equal
to the size of their brain andthis has happened several times
in my career where it's a simplearachnoid cyst and you can see
the brain smushed over to oneside, and it's just incredible
(16:03):
that it can work normally.
It can compensate for beingsmushed into half the size of
the skull in these people.
And that's just one otherexample of how well the body can
compensate.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Well, we're kind of touching on the next subject.
Then, when we say mind overmatter, this is a literal
statement.
Actually.
The brain is indeed an elusivearea of study.
So you went high into theHimalayan mountains to study the
brain phenomena.
So tell us about your journeyand what you found.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Sure, so I was a volunteer physician with the
Himalayan Rescue Association in2016.
I worked at about 12,000 feetabove sea level in the Nepalese
village of Manang, which is on avery popular trekking route.
There I treated trekkers, bothNepali and foreign trekkers, as
well as porters, guides andlocal people who were all sort
(16:54):
of either living there orpassing through.
I was struck by the kind ofmultifaceted connection between
the brain and the mountain whileI was struck by the kind of
multifaceted connection betweenthe brain and the mountain while
I was there.
You know, for starters,altitude sickness, which is a
very mysterious aspect of humanhealth, and I learned very
little about medical school OnceI got there and got a crash
course in and I saw thataltitude sickness really affects
(17:15):
the brain more than any otherorgan.
It affects the lung sometimestoo, but it's really brain
swelling that is responsible forthe large majority of symptoms
people experience at altitude,as well as the large majority of
altitude sickness related deathat altitude.
So the higher you go above sealevel, especially when you
ascend fast and outstrip yourbody's ability to acclimate, the
(17:36):
brain can be swollen, and so Itreated a lot of patients with
so the higher you go, your brainactually does swell at that
point.
So it's at more risk of swelling.
You know, the higher you go,and especially the more you
ascend in one day, the moreheight you gain in one day.
That also puts you at risk thekind of the higher you are to
(17:57):
start with, the higher the riskis to begin with, which is why
people, when they're climbingvery high mountains you know if
you've ever seen the routepeople take to climb Everest
there's a lot of up and back andup and back.
two steps forward, one step back, you know, to give the body
time to acclimate.
You're already so high to start.
Even Everest base camp is muchhigher than where I was
(18:18):
stationed with Manet, and thenthat's just the start of your
trek.
But you know, the mountains andthe brain are connected in so
many other ways.
So the brain obviously is ourhighest altitude internal organ,
at least when we're upright.
But also, you know, we go tothe mountains for a variety of
reasons.
While I was in Nepal I spoke toseveral Tibetan Buddhist lamas
(18:39):
who sort of retreat to themountains to sort of meditate
for much of the day and sort of,you know, do their spiritual
and religious practices.
So it's sort of, in a way,going to the mountains is this
retreat into the mind, a placewhere people can get away from
sort of the busy, noisy aspectsof daily life that sort of go on
in the valleys, you know,getting up to the clean air, a
(19:01):
way above the flow of humanpollution, where you can be
alone with your thoughts.
You know the big part of whypeople go to the mountains as
well.
So I kind of liked all those,all those connections between
the brain and the mountains and,as you said, mind over matter.
The brain itself has thisinternal structure of height in
a way.
(19:21):
At the base is the brainstemwhich sort of just controls the
body function, the heartbeat,the breathing rate.
It's sort of a robotic controlover the body itself.
And then, as you ascend higherand higher, you get to the
emotions which are a bit morecomplicated, sort of perhaps the
first inkling of the mind.
And then, if you go even higherto the cerebral cortex, that's
where sort of you know, quoteunquote the magic happens and
(19:43):
where the sort of brain ends andthe mind begins and sort of
reflects the mysteries as you gohigher and higher into the
mountains and the physiology ofthe human body becomes more and
more understood.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Is your mind encouraged at that point to
meditate?
Is that what you're saying?
That the higher you go, theneventually you know?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
you get into more of a meditative state.
I mean, I do think that justgetting away from society, you
know, can put you in a moremeditative state.
It can be harder to think orreflect on our lives, you know,
from the bustle of daily lifeand sort of going to the
mountains inherently meansgetting away from that.
I mean, I also noticed it'svery hard to breathe up there.
You know, I was out of breathpretty much the whole two months
I was there.
Even toweling off after ashower got me out of breath and
(20:28):
my oxygen level was in the mid80s which, if you know, in my
sea level emergency room where Iwork, that would be very
concerning.
But up there it was normal and Igot out of breath in simple
conversation.
But up there it was normal andI got out of breath in simple
conversation.
And I think that, you know,even that kind of gives you some
(20:48):
pause and makes you sort ofreflect on your own body and how
sort of fragile it is,especially up in that thin air.
And I do think that it does.
Going to the mountainsinherently, you know, shows you
these beautiful vistas, showsyou how small we are.
Each of our bodies is sofragile in the face of these
harsh rock and ice environmentswhere nothing can survive, and I
think that does put you in aspiritual frame of mind.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Interesting.
Well, one of the things inrelation to brain function that
I just you touched on in yourbook, and I'm just curious about
what your conclusions are interms of you discussed marijuana
, for example, and alcohol.
How do those two substancesbasically affect your brain,
your thought process?
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Intoxicants like alcohol and marijuana help us
understand how different partsof the brain work.
You know, when we go about ourdaily lives, our subjectivity,
our consciousness, our minds, itfeels like this unified whole
experience.
But we've known for over acentury that you know, the brain
is geographic.
The brain is broken down intoparts, and different parts of
(21:51):
the brain add something to ourexperience of subjectivity.
So, even though it appears tobe this unified and fluid whole,
it really is broken down into,you know, our memories, what we
see, what we hear, what we taste, and so different parts of the
brain each contributes its ownpart to that whole, and
intoxicants can be illustrativein how they affect different
(22:14):
parts.
For instance, affects thecerebellum, which plays a big
role in coordination and balanceand helps you sort of move
fluidly and do the daily taskslike walking or anything else
you do with your hands, sosomebody who's had too much to
drink.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
You see them stumbling around.
That's that effect.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Exactly, and alcohol specifically affects the
cerebellum, and so that's whyyou get those results, which is
actually, coincidentally, verysimilar to people with severe
brain swelling at altitude, highaltitude cerebral edema, the
condition's called.
We diagnose it the same way byhaving them walk a line like a,
you know, policeman might at atraffic stop, and when, that
same lack of coordination, youknow, when we see that, assuming
(22:55):
they have not actually drankalcohol, we, you know, we know
that their brain swelling is ata critical point and we have to
treat them and get them todescend further.
But you know, and marijuanaobviously affects other parts.
It affects parts of the brainrelated to memory, it affects
parts of the brain related tohunger, in a good way or a bad
way.
Well, you know, if you're, ifyou're a kind of patient with
(23:17):
cancer getting chemotherapy, andyour appetite appetite is
non-existent, that increase inappetite can be very beneficial.
That's why marijuana is a goodappetite stimulant.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
There's not many other great appetite stimulants
in modern medicine.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
so that is a good one If it's part of a no-exercise
lifestyle and sitting on thecouch eating Cheetos maybe that
increase in appetite is not ashealthy for the body.
So context always matters.
You know, a poison becomes amedicine just depending on the
context and dose and personreceiving it.
So those are important.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
I think, one important question I wanted to
delve into.
Unlike other elements of thehuman body, we understand far
less about the mind andobviously you know the mind in a
sense is connected to the brain.
But how does our mind relate toour brain?
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I think a big part of it is this kind of geographic
breakdown of the brain.
You know, I think there's beenso many theories about how to
break the brain down.
You know there's some olderones where we sort of called the
lower functions the lizardbrain and then a step up from
that was the mammalian brain andthen a step above that was the
neo-mammalian brain.
You know, this hierarchy ofanimals to sort of reflect the
(24:32):
hierarchy of complexity offunction in the brain.
You know that's sort of notthat specific scheme is not in
vogue anymore but there are manyothers.
But I really think, you know, Iguess everyone's take on the
mind might be a little different, and I don't I don't discount
any, any view at all- Well, forexample, you see the brain, but
(24:53):
you don't really see the mind.
Right, you don't see the mind.
You know clearly there's aconnection right Because you
know, injuries to the brainobviously can affect the mind,
especially strokes.
Strokes, for instance, can bevery illustrative of brain
function because it's almostlike a living experiment, in
that you get the depth of asmall area of the brain
(25:13):
sometimes large but moreillustrative if it's a very
small area and then see whatsort of function that person
lacks.
You know, a very small strokemight make someone be unable to
recognize faces.
It might cut out vision just tothe lower outer corner of their
vision, you know, or half theirvision or, you know, depending
(25:34):
where the stroke is.
It can affect everything frommemory to the fluidity of speech
and I feel like that reallyillustrates how sort of broken
down the brain is.
I mean, if someone forced me tocreate my own theory of the
mind, I would say that it justis a million different functions
of the brain sort of stitchedtogether into what we experience
as a whole, when actually it'ssort of a million different
functions of the brain sort ofstitched together into the, into
(25:54):
what we experienced as a whole,when actually it's sort of a
million parts all just workingtogether.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And there's nothing more than that.
You don't compare it to thesoul, for example, which again
is imaginary in a sense.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I mean I don't think so, but you know it's some.
I fully accept if other peopledo believe that or see the mind
differently.
I mean we'll be debating thisfor the next 10,000 years, as
we've been debating it for thelast 10,000.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
And I love debating so I'm open to all ideas.
Well, it's interesting in yourbook that you describe the skin
as being intelligent.
That's a different perspective.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Can you elaborate on that?
Yeah, so the skin.
You know I was fascinated withthe skin before medical school,
as they say in the chapter Ilearned to.
I learned a lot of kind ofprehistoric craft and really
loved especially the, the craftof skin tanning or tanning
animal hides, which I reallytook to and loved.
And then when I got, you knowso the skin was sort of had a
special place in my heartbecause I had gained some skill
(26:53):
and some experience in thatcraft and really loved it.
When I got to medical school, asI mentioned, with our cadaver,
you know, the skin was almosttreated as sort of wrapping
paper where you just tear it off, get it out of the way and sort
of get onto the goal, thepresent inside.
And it was.
We kind of ignored it inanatomy lab, which I was, you
know, not thrilled with, butthen we learned about it in some
(27:14):
more detail, like in histologyclass, pathology class.
So basically the skin has thismagical ability to predict the
future in a way.
You know, when sun shines onyour skin, the skin senses it
and senses the need to protectDNA and skin cells from the
ionizing radiation from the sun.
So skin darkens, it tans, andwhen you look at tan skin under
(27:40):
the microscope you actually seejust this tiny little plug of
pigment, a tiny little bit ofpigment right in front of the
nuclei of all the cells just tosort of create this wall against
ionizing radiation, only forthe DNA, because that's really
the only part that's susceptibleto mutation from the radiation.
So it's almost predicting thefuture, predicting more sunshine
to come and protecting itselfas a result.
And you see that sameintelligence with calluses.
(28:02):
So when our skin experiencesfriction it sort of thickens and
hardens into these calluses,almost in anticipation of more
friction coming in the future.
So in a way skin seems reallyintelligent in those two ways.
Not to mention when we getwounds.
People coming to the ER foropen skin wounds, cuts et cetera
are a huge part of my daily job, closing those wounds and I
(28:25):
usually sew them shut, mostlyfor cosmetic reasons but to
reduce the eventual scar.
But almost all of those willclose on their own because skin
has this magical ability tocells migrate from the edges of
the wound into fill the defectand just regrows.
And you know, you do get maybea less than beautiful scar, but
skin sort of magically has thisability to, you know close
(28:49):
itself to keep the body'sinsides closed, away from the
outside.
So it's really an intelligentorgan.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Well, wouldn't it be nice if our internal organs had
the same capability as skin interms of protecting itself and
revitalizing itself?
In chapter 15 of your book, theUnseen Body, you write every
piece of our bodies, every bitof flesh, requires a constant
flow of blood as a bare minimumto stay alive.
(29:17):
So what do we need to knowabout blood and how to keep it
healthy so that we surviveeffectively?
Speaker 3 (29:26):
The very basic job of the cardiovascular system is
for the heart to push bloodthrough this branching to
infinity vascular tree todeliver fresh, nutrient-filled
and oxygen-filled blood to thedoorstep of all trillion of our
cells, really every second.
You can think of it as almost areally large and complicated
(29:49):
drip irrigation system wherethis branching system of pipes
brings fresh water or, in thecase of the body, fresh blood to
every.
You know, the base of everyplant in the garden, the base of
every cell.
And if that stops for even someseconds, you know, besides
causing tremendous pain,depending on where that is, that
could be in the heart, with aheart attack or elsewhere.
(30:11):
You know it's those plants, ifyou will, those cells start to
wither and die as they mightwithout getting the water needed
from drip irrigation.
So you know, in a way, gettingoxygen to your cells is sort of
the most basic, most basicfunction that blood must
accomplish.
And that's harder, you know, ataltitude, for instance, like I
(30:33):
said, my oxygen was low and youfind that your body doesn't
quite work as well.
You get all these weirdsymptoms, you get this
mysterious brain swelling, andall of that is very poorly
understood.
Clearly, the flow of blood isnecessary.
You know, beyond oxygen, itbrings a whole lot of other
nutrients and I think you know,reflecting diet, reflecting
lifestyle, avoiding toxins.
(30:54):
And I think you know reflectingdiet, reflecting lifestyle,
avoiding toxins, you know kindof an important way to keep your
blood healthy, keep what itdelivers to your cells healthy
as well.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Here again, it's important what you're eating,
because you are what you eat, asthey say.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Exactly it's true, physiologically.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Now, during your interview that I listened to on
NPR, which I found fascinating,you host these dinners where
attendees actually eat internalorgans, as I understand.
The obvious question is why andwhat do people learn from these
dinners that you host?
Speaker 3 (31:32):
That's correct.
So I host me and the chefteamed up to have dinners called
Anatomy Eats.
We've held several at the FreePublic Library here in Chile and
Anatomy Eats is basically sortof exactly what you might expect
when a doctor and a chef gettogether.
So for each of those dinners Isort of bring my knowledge of
anatomy and physiology of thehuman body and, by extension, of
(31:53):
animal bodies.
And then, you know, I sort ofbring my knowledge of anatomy
and physiology of the human bodyand, by extension, of animal
bodies, and then, you know, wesort of talk about interesting
body parts, internal organs, andthen, while talking about them
and exploring how fascinatingand complex they are, we serve
dishes made with those organs.
So for instance we had a dinnerbased on the cardiovascular
system where we talked all aboutthe heart and me and the chef
(32:15):
dissected a cow's heart, whichis quite large, in front of the
audience.
We ended up serving threespecies of heart cooked in three
different ways.
We served some blood sausageand we served bone marrow, where
all the blood cells come from.
So that was the cardiovascularsystem dinner, and really the
goal is sort of just to havepeople think about how their own
body works and to understandhow what we eat from the
(32:38):
animal's bodies really is verysimilar, you know,
physiologically and anatomically.
And so I think that perspectivethe food perspective and the
anatomy perspective, sort ofcrammed together side by side
gives people interestingperspective on what they are
made of as well.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
So, in other words, I would imagine if you're eating
internal organs or you'reserving those genitals would be
a dish that you would serve, amI correct?
I mean a wide variety, dopeople?
Do you have others?
Anyone at the table who reallyfeels like this is not for them?
Or anyone at the table whoreally feels like this is not
(33:17):
for them?
Or, my God, I can't believe I'meating this, or do they feel
like it's delicious food.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Well, the food, you know, I have to say in my own
perspective, the food isdelicious.
Chef Ari Miller is really amaster at cooking these unusual
body parts.
I think our dinners tend to beselective in who they attract.
You know, I think someone whomight feel that way, as you just
laid out, might not buy aticket and come to one of these
dinners.
So it's sort of self-selectingfor people who are kind of
(33:42):
curious and adventurous eaters.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Well, I mean, I think it's just fascinating.
I mean, can people actuallyemail you, call in, try to put
themselves on a waiting list forone of your dinners?
And I'm assuming- since youlive in Pennsylvania, I mean or
Philadelphia, that's where thesedinners take place, I'm
guessing.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Correct.
That is where these dinnerstake place.
We might be taking the show onthe road in the near future, but
if people can go toanatomyeatscom they can find the
contact info and definitely youcan see a good segment there
that the WHYY PBS here in Phillydid on our musculoskeletal
dinner.
It really encompasses how thedinners work.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Now, that is fascinating.
Now, one of the questions thatI have is and just briefly as we
wind this up, dr Reisman, Iunderstand you operate a
nonprofit organization toimprove health care and
education in India.
Am I correct?
Speaker 3 (34:38):
That's right.
When I was a medical student, Itook a year off from medical
school and spent a bunch of timein India, including
volunteering for a charity basedin Calcutta called Calcutta
Rescue.
It was started by a Britishphysician in the late 70s and
has been growing ever since, andyou know there's so many
charities in Calcutta.
(34:59):
I saw while I was there and metother volunteers working for
various medical and educationalcharities, and I thought
Calcutta Rescue really stood outin delivering impressively high
quality medical care and highquality education to really some
of the poorest people I've everencountered living on the slum,
living in the slums of the cityor on the sidewalks itself.
(35:20):
Calcutta has a huge populationof homeless families and people.
I was really impressed with themedical care they were
providing.
I was impressed with how verycheap medications can treat you
know diseases like vitamin Asupplementation can prevent
blindness in children, and thesepills cost pennies, and so I
(35:42):
was just really amazed at howmuch good can be done with so
little, and so I started anonprofit when I got home, still
as a med student, to supportCalcutta Rescue and other
charities that are doing kind ofthe high quality work that
might have an impact on people.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Wonderful.
Well, it's good work that youdo.
There's no question about it.
I'm not certain that I'm evergoing to be hungry enough to
join you in one of your anatomyeating dinners.
I don't know that I have theintestinal fortitude to do that,
but I do wish to urge ourlisteners to promptly pick up a
(36:19):
copy of your book the UnseenBody and tell us a little bit
about how.
What's the best way that ourlisteners can go to find the
book right now if they want tobuy a copy?
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Sure, so I guess Amazon is the easiest.
You know there's other ways ofordering it Barnes, noble, as
well as other websites.
It's in your local bookstore aswell.
So if you want to support yourlocal bookstore, that's a worthy
cause.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
But any of those ways it should be available our
listeners that they can alwaysvisit our website,
bodymindsoulpodcastnet, to findmore information about Dr
Reisman and his excellent book,and we'll have all the
information on the website.
So I want to encourage ourlisteners, if they simply enough
(37:07):
, go to amazoncom, as Dr Reismansuggests.
It's the Unseen Body and that'sthe title of the book.
Actually I have a copy here.
It just says the Unseen Body, aDoctor's Journey Through the
Hidden Wonders of the HumanAnatomy.
Quite a title and I mean it'sjust a fascinating title
actually, and the book itself,having read through it, is
(37:29):
fascinating.
I want to thank you for thecopy of the book.
I found it overwhelminglyinteresting.
So I don't always sit and readsomething at one sitting, but I
did.
But in any case, I want tothank you very much, dr Reisman,
for joining us on the podcastand perhaps we'll have you back
again to talk more about othersubject matter.
(37:50):
We sort of touched the surface,sort of skin deep, as they say.
But in any case, thank you.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
You can get a more vivid look inside your body by
going to Dr Reisman's website,jonathanreismancom, but you can
also find this information,along with many other great
podcasts, by coming directly toour website,
jamesamespolakoffcom.
That's james P-O-L-A-K-O-F dotcom.
Again, that's jamespolakoffcom.
(38:21):
We also have two great bookswith an inside look into health
and beauty.
My first recommendation is LiveHealthy Longer with Dr Jim,
written by our very own Dr JimPolakoff, but remember, you need
to add Dr Jim to the title.
So again, it's Live HealthyLonger with Dr Jim.
(38:42):
Plus, you'll also find a seriesof terrific reviews there.
Find all of this wonderfulinformation on Amazoncom.
Also, for those cosmeticsurgery beauty fans, the Real
you Only Better is a great read.
Again, you'll find both greatbooks on Amazon and our website,
jamespolikoffcom.
(39:03):
Now back to Dr Jim.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Well, I doubt I'll be hungry enough to join Dr
Reisman for one of his anatomyeating dinners anytime soon, but
I do want to thank him againfor an amazing inside look in
our bodies, and you're going towant to know more, so definitely
get to his website, whichobviously our narrator has
mentioned.
Now, since we've been examiningour internal organs, let's turn
(39:29):
to an often overlookedvegetable that offers some
surprising health benefits.
It may surprise you, but I'mreferring to a secret powerhouse
called celery.
Yes, there are many goodreasons to chomp on celery
sticks.
First of all, celery helps tolower cholesterol.
This is particularly importantfor older adults on a mission to
(39:51):
prevent or deal with heartdisease and strokes.
Celery also contains certaincompounds which serve to reduce
toxins in your body that canlead to cancer.
This amazing veggie also aids indigestion.
Raw celery contains fiber,which adds bulk to your stool
(40:13):
and, at the same time, softensit to prevent constipation.
Plus, celery maintainsnutritional benefits during
weight loss.
Its content of vitamin C,essential Bs, potassium and
electrolytes actually regulateyour metabolism and helps you
stay fuller longer.
(40:34):
But there's more.
So I invite you to read mylatest blog the Secret Health
Benefits of Celery.
All you have to do is come toour website, jamespolikoffcom,
and click on Blogs.
This is Dr Jim Polikoff, withmy sincere thanks for you
joining me once again.
(40:55):
And remember, a new episode ofLive Healthy Longer is available
each and every Wednesday.
So, in the meantime, my wishesto you for a healthy, happy,
long life.
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.