July 30, 2024 • 40 mins
Have you ever walked on eggshells around a loved one, ...
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(00:00):
Because 1 of the things I learned is
that in any interpersonal relationship, whether it's your
you, with your kids,
your parent, your your colleagues at work, your
friends,
you're bound to find a disagreement, you're bound
to find something that you don't see a
hide eye.
But that doesn't mean that you can't be
in in relationship or a apprenticeship with that
person.
(00:22):
I am Gloria Grace Rand, founder of the
love method, and author of the number 1
Amazon best seller, live love, and engage. How
to stop doubting year's out and start being
yourself.
In this podcast,
we share practical advice from a spiritual perspective.
How to live fully
love deeply and engage authentically.
(00:45):
So you can create a life and business
with more impact,
influence and income.
Welcome to live love engage.
Do you find it challenging to share a
difference of opinion with
employee?
(01:05):
Or clients, family and friends,
while the author of disagree
without
disrespect is joining us today to ease offer
his guidance on how to disagree with the
people you love and work with without damaging
your relationships. So bet but for I'd bring
him on, I'd like to welcome those of
(01:25):
you who are new to live Love engaged
and let you know that I am Gloria
Grace, and I help. Female entrepreneurs
attract more clients with calm, clarity and confidence
by releasing negative thought patterns, like self doubt
and poor self worth.
And I am delighted to have Philip Black
(01:47):
as my guest in addition to being an
author, he is a
consultants and entrepreneur,
he has a master of D degree
and an Mba from harvard business school, so
he's no s.
So I'm gonna bring him up to the
stage right now. I'm gonna officially welcome you
fell up to live love engaged
Thank you so much, Gloria having me. Happy
(02:09):
to be here with you. Well, I'm
I'm really glad to be talking about this
because if
anybody...
Frankly, in the world, but definitely in the
United States,
there's just been so much,
strife, I guess and and and
discord and it just seems to be so
(02:29):
difficult to be able to disagree
civil
with anyone more. Attention just get really high.
And
I I know that, you know, you've obviously
written a book On there so let's just
get right to it. So let's talk about,
you know, how are we able to have
conversations? How can we? Start having conversations with
(02:52):
people and and be able to disagree
respectfully.
Right. So I I think it's a great
question, Gloria, and So it's a question that
goes beyond just this year. This is this
is something that we have to navigate.
Every year with everybody.
Because here's 1 thing that I would say
to you, Gloria, I I know for a
(03:13):
fact that if you and I spent a
week together, I can assure you 2 things
are gonna happen.
1, you're gonna find some things that you
and I are in complete agreement with. Feel
like we're brothers and sisters.
The other thing I'm gonna guarantee you on
is you're probably gonna find some things
that either you disagree with me on. Or
(03:34):
vice versa, I disagree with you on, and
we might be on polar opposites.
And that's normal. That's okay
you see the problem isn't this disagreements in
our relationships.
It's how we navigate them respectfully.
And it's not... Having to deal with an
election. This can go or 2 people thinking
(03:54):
differently about a problem
or believing in something different
beyond just who are you're gonna vote for.
Because 1 of the things I learned is
that in any interpersonal relationship, whether it's your
you, with your kids,
your parents, your your colleagues at work, your
friends,
you're bound to find a disagreement, you're bound
to find, something that you don't see a
(04:15):
Hide eye.
But that doesn't mean that you can't be
in in relationship or a friendship with that
person. I would argue the opposite that it
is possible
for us to disagree with someone's view
and still
respect and love that person
in a healthy
relationship.
Well, I understand that you've got... You have,
(04:37):
like, a 5 step framework.
For for doing this. Can you share, you
know, maybe at least a couple of couple
of those steps out of of you. I
mean, I wanna necessarily give everything a ask
suspect it's in the book and we want
people to be able to buy the book.
But maybe you can, you know, share 1
or 2 steps with us. Yeah. So I
think the first thing we have to do
if we want to disagree with others respectfully
(04:59):
is first,
separate the idea or believe, from the identity
of the believer.
The reason why that's an important Gloria is
that oftentimes depending on the person
depending on the idea at hand,
you may come across somebody that is so
intertwined with that idea or belief that it
essentially becomes who he or she is.
(05:20):
So the challenge with that is if you
disagreeing with that idea or belief, that person
may take of it as you're disagreeing with
who they are. And if you're criticizing that
idea or belief, they may take it as
you criticizing them,
or hating
them, which
Makes sense for them to get defensive,
raise their guard up, maybe be aggressive, maybe
(05:42):
given to some name calling with you because
they're trying to defend themselves.
But if you can separate the idea or
belief from the identity,
then we can actually have a a going
conversation about it. That's step
Yeah. That makes that makes sense. I mean,
because I can...
Because I'm just just thinking about it it's,
like, you... Really
(06:02):
can feel like, you know, they're just really
hurting you
because you're you're so closely tied in with
that. So how how can you
well, actually, I'm gonna ask you this first.
How can you
how can you recognize that? Because I'm wondering
if it... Because maybe
it doesn't seem necessarily, like it may be
easy to recognize. I don't know.
(06:23):
What do you think? Well, a a easy
way to define out is... Somebody's
emotional response. Right? If somebody is really
drawn
to what you're talking about, if their feel
particularly,
heighten as far as their response to you,
whether it's in their voice and their manner.
If it's in their actual body posture,
(06:44):
meaning you might have struck a nerve here.
You might have pushed the button
that you can at least be able to
say, hey, Like, let's let's push back a
little bit, pump the brakes a little bit.
I'm not attacking you. Let's be clear. I'm
not criticizing who you are. I actually respect
you. It's more so the idea or believe
we're talking about. That's where we see differently,
(07:05):
and
that's okay.
Now,
what happens though... Because I'm because I'm thinking
sometimes,
it just seems... And I'm thinking right now
I had I had a friend of mine.
I think who was in a conversation with
someone
where it was just... She just couldn't get
through to her, and she finally just had
to just kinda walk away So is... Does
(07:27):
there come a point where sometimes, you know,
if if you... Even if you're, you know,
trying to say, you know, look come out
attacking you, you know, I'm just, you know,
I'm just It's just this issue.
Do sometimes do you just have to kind
of back off?
Absolutely. Need sometimes, it's not... It doesn't Be
who to have a conversation with someone if
you feel like either it's gonna get personal
(07:49):
pretty quickly.
If we're gonna get involved in name calling
rather than actually debating the merits to the
issue at hand,
or if you feel in some way threatened,
I wouldn't want you to be in a
position like that. And so it probably is
best for you to advocate for yourself to
say you know what? I don't mind having
this conversation with you, Gloria, but I sense
that this is pretty tense, and I don't
(08:11):
want this to, you know, threaten 1 or
the other or make 1 of us feel
bad. And so if it's not the right
time, because it's not the right topic,
I'm perfectly fine with us opting out of
having this debate or us having this conversation.
We can talk about something else. We can
do something else. We don't have to add
it because
What I've learned is that when somebody sharing
their perspective opinion with you gloria,
(08:33):
we ought take of it as a gift,
The reason why I say that is because
oftentimes most people don't have to share with
you anything.
Oftentimes in fear of disagreement and fear of
what that disagreement can lead to
a lot of people keep their conversations on
the surface slope,
unless they come across somebody that they feel
more
trusting
(08:53):
that they could be more vulnerable and open
with and honest,
and and that's where you're having these more
candid
conversations,
because they feel like they're in a safer
space to have them, even if they don't
agree on everything or they don't know everything
So it's in this sense too that that's
not the case with the interaction you're having.
(09:14):
It's okay to say you know what? This
might not be the right time for us.
Or I do wanna get this conversation,
and you set the boundaries at are rules
and how you do it, you know, 1
would be the sense of I want to
debate the idea more so based on its
merits.
Right? Let's let's talk about the facts, the
logic.
The research, the reviews, the the
(09:37):
results, the performance analysis, all that sort of,
like, trying to keep it objective.
Apples to apples comparison,
rather than all up in your emotions, trying
to name call and that sort of thing.
And if we can do that great. But
if we can't, And once again, this is
nothing against you. This is nothing personal towards
you, but I'd choose not to go down
(09:59):
this road with you And that's not gonna
be the case. And that's perfectly fine for
you to advocate for yourself that way.
Yeah. Is... So what what other steps can
can people take? Let's say that
now let's go the other way that they
they do find that they're able to
engage the person a little bit more that
they're gonna be able to have a coverage
(10:20):
decision. Or actually, let me ask it this
way.
What
are there maybe be some pit pitfalls that
you wanna avoid when you're... You know, let's
say you're gonna go ahead and have this
discussion, but you wanna make sure that, you
know, that you don't maybe inadvertently push their
buttons. Let's say. Well, oftentimes it's it's... The
beauty of conversations when they're beyond the surface,
(10:41):
that that's the only way you find out
if there are any landline to avoid. And
sometimes it's just a matter of trial and
error
that you might push the button that you
didn't expect to push, but you have to
address at that point. But I think what
comes out of this, Gloria is the second
step where,
you know, it's okay to disagree with the
(11:02):
idea or belief, and still respect and love
the believer.
You know, 1 of the things I learned
growing up in church was we call to
hate the sin and love the center, So
2 things could be true. I can disagree
with what you just said, Gloria,
and
I can still respect and love you as
my friend. And I think if nothing else
(11:22):
we take away from the book or our
conversation, If we're able to have that sort
of
agreement with people we talk to, the, hey,
I made disagreed with what you just said
or what you did,
and
I still respect and love you as my
friend, my child.
My colleague at work, my neighbor. What it
does is it helps disarm people brings their
(11:44):
guard down,
but he feel like, okay. I can have
this conversation with Philip, and he's not gonna
all of him a sudden un unfriendly me.
He's not gonna of a sudden,
swipe left or un follow me or give
me the cold shoulder or curse me out
on social media in the comment section. We
could actually have just a conversation just sharing
ideas,
(12:04):
sharing information. That even if we disagree,
I think that's a breath of fresh air
for a lot of people,
if you allow that safe space to be
involved.
Yeah.
That makes so much sense, and and it
is... It is kinda sad because I know
I've been seeing on social media people, you
know, un unfriendly. And and, frankly, you know,
(12:25):
sometimes I have
done that as well, only because it just
seems like the level of vi material has
just been too high
of what they're saying.
Not even just necessarily to me, but even
to other people and I've decided that, you
know,
I don't have to
necessarily especially if it's not someone that I've
been, like, a close friend with for a
long time, You know, because that's the thing
(12:46):
on social media, they're sort of this different
levels. You know, there's people maybe that... You've
known for many, many years. Maybe you even
met them in person, shocker as opposed to
be why you won't might lie. I think
it can be sometimes a little more easily
easier to, like go of some of those
relationships maybe that aren't quite as as deep
as you have had with other people.
(13:07):
I wanted to asking
what actually prompted you to write this book?
Was it something that you experienced yourself or,
you know, talk... I'd love to know a
little bit about that?
Yeah. The secret about this book, Gloria is
I actually wrote this originally for myself
because,
you know, I went through a number of
different things it up at even to this
day,
(13:27):
where, you know, it could be awkward to
have a different point of view, you wanna
share it with somebody, throw but you're afraid
of how that person's gonna respond or better
yet how they're gonna
reflect on who you are. And if their
relationship with you is gonna change.
As a result of having a different point
of view. So even for me, you know,
the book Origin came, you know, last year
(13:49):
around 4 for July. So I invited my
sister and her family. I invite my mother
to my house with my family to all
get together for the fourth of July in
fireworks.
And so my sister and I were in
the living room with my mother. We were
having a conversation. And quite frankly, I don't
remember what the topic of the conversation was,
Gloria.
What I do know was, we were on
(14:10):
opposite sides of the spectrum on this issue.
While we were actually, like,
discussing some people would say debating the issue
at hand,
Yeah.
My mom jumps in. And I thought initially
okay, Are you gonna pick my side and
you're gonna pick my sister's side. And she
was like, neither.
We're not gonna have this conversation because of
what I don't wanna see is fireworks before
(14:31):
tonight.
Yeah. So
why
understand her intent behind it as far as
trying to preserve the peace,
keep a family memory, something we look at
fondly years later. What I do realize the
impact of her action was, it made it
a loss opportunity for us. And what I
mean by that is
(14:52):
My sister and I, we don't see each
other often. We don't live in the same
neighborhood, let alone the same state. So when
we see each other in person,
that's significant.
And I think you probably would agree with,
Gloria that in the age of smartphones,
social media, and texting.
Some conversations are better to be had in
person. Yeah. Face to face.
(15:13):
And that was an opportunity where I could
have shared something that was important to me
or learn something about her in person
that we didn't have. And that was all
because of fear
of a disagreement
potentially in what that could lead to. And
so my thought coming out of that was,
you know, wow. Like, if that was happening
with me,
(15:34):
I wonder how many other people around the
world
are experiencing something similar,
where essentially, there's something that's important to them,
They wanna be able to share with somebody
they care about, but the concern about whether
or not we disagree and whether or not
the relationship,
suffers or even ends because of it. You
don't even get into that cop type of
(15:54):
conversation. You keep things surface level. You do
small talk forever at nausea,
because of that fear. And so I said
to myself, hey, is there a better way
we could have done this? What's the framework
we can embark on that to help navigate
this agreement respectfully?
And that's what came out ultimately in the
book, disagree without this respect how to respectfully
(16:15):
debate with those who think
believe
and vote differently
from you. Mh
Well,
The, yeah, families are
family discussions can can definitely get get heated,
and and I know that,
especially, like I said, I mean, that over
(16:35):
the last,
you know, 08:10
10 years, 12 years or whatever. It's just...
We've just gotten so
quick to...
Sometimes even form opinions and and then and
and quick to to fly off the handle.
I think sometimes too
And and so I think
I I would think 1 of the things
(16:55):
that
I would advocate and maybe, you know, let
me know if you you agree with is
I think is to...
When you're getting involved in a conversation to
sometimes just stop and and and pause and
breathe for a minute and think before you
speak,
because that doesn't wonders
for helping you to get out of that
reactive
line because especially if you do get triggered,
(17:18):
you know, just just pause for a moment.
Just just think before you speak, and and
then, you know, then you can decide, you
know, is just you know, do you wanna
walk away from that situation? Or and do
you want be able to, you know, again,
as you were saying earlier, you know, let's...
I'm I'm not... You know, I'm not
upset with you. It's it's the issue. I
(17:39):
wanna be able to discuss this issue. And
if this isn't the right time for that,
you know, that's fine.
In something else I would add to gloria,
like, even with the breathing and thinking before
you speak. I also would say, this is
a perfect opportunity to
communicate almost to the point of over communicating,
that it's okay for us to have this
(18:00):
conversation. It's okay for us to disagree,
I still respect you. I still love you.
Nothing is gonna change off of that.
And so being able to help assure somebody,
almost to the sense like, I expect us
to not See and everything. Oddly enough and
the fact that we do disagree, it's okay
(18:21):
you don't have to be afraid of that.
You don't have to run out the room.
You don't have to hang up the phone.
And I'm... Still gonna be here even at
the end of the conversation if we don't
see how eye, I'll still shake your hand
afterwards.
I'll still wanna get a burger or a
drink or pizza with you afterwards.
I'll still keep you as a friend on
(18:43):
Facebook,
Like, something that simple. If every 1 of
us had taken that option more often,
we wouldn't have this sort of, I would
assure you because you're helping people understand disagreement
is expected. Mh and
you can still respect 1 another through that
disagreement and still have a relationship. Yeah. Yeah.
(19:06):
I was I was, like... To say, you
know, let's just agree to disagree.
You know, we're we're just gonna... That's it.
We're just disagreeing on this matter and that's
okay
we'll we don't have to. But I wanna
ask you something though maybe that
might help people to
I I get... Or or maybe just is
this in
(19:26):
what your opinion is? You know, is there
a way still though that we can... You
know, try to find some common ground. Maybe
just, you know, by asking questions about the
other person, being curious about, you know, why
they do, have an opinion that is, you
know, posed to yours. What what do you
think about that? Yeah. So I think that's
perfect. You know, that's part of. Step 3
(19:47):
when you're talking about debating based on the
issues at hand based on merit, not on
feelings,
not on name calling, not on getting things
personal, a part of that is dealing with
active listening
and asking questions,
being curious, like trying to see beyond the
surface of why somebody is believing or thinking
or voting the way that they are, that's
(20:09):
different from yours,
and just that sense of curiosity
honestly works wonders
because you're learning something from that person that
probably
99 percent of the world doesn't know. And
simply by just asking it a question
and then following up with another question. Not
with what you're gonna say next. Not your
rebuttal,
(20:29):
but just take, like, disarm myself. Like, look,
I'm not even debating you at this, Gloria,
I just wanna learn.
Because now,
was she shift the objective from... I'm trying
to prove myself right and superior to your
point of view when prove you wrong,
and I changed that to more of, this
is just an information sharing
(20:49):
exercise. This is just or more of exchange
where I'm actually getting to know you better
than I did before having this conversation in
the first place. So already, that's a win
And if you look at it from that
standpoint,
now you're saying to yourself okay, help me
understand,
why do you think the way you think?
What is so important about it? Is there
(21:11):
a backstory behind it? There something I'm not
seeing. What would you wish more people knew
about what's going on, or how you thought.
Like, answers to those questions,
you get beneath the surface.
You start to better understand that person
a lot more.
And if nothing else, even if you quote
unquote, agree to disagree,
(21:32):
what often happens, Gloria is, you come with
from that conversation
Not only just would a breath fresh air
as I said before, but more soda sense
the same, like, wow, like, I wasn't expecting
that philip. Because I hadn't expect it from
anybody. I'm usually, like, coming in with my
fist, ready to be on the defensive ready
to call somebody outside the name, But this
1 actually listened to me. He actually wasn't
(21:54):
intrigued. He actually was curious. He actually wanted
to learn more. And even if we didn't
see odd eye,
he appreciated us having the conversation. Wasn't waste
time to him. And I think honestly,
I know that that my intent in doing
that wasn't to win the argument.
But I can assure you a byproduct of
that approach is,
that person you just had the conversation with
(22:15):
is more open to what you have to
say afterward if for no other reason, the
law reciprocity plays a role here too, like,
okay, if he heard me out, and he
was respectful enough to ask questions in that
sort
maybe not what everyone else,
but maybe what philip up.
I might return to favor and ask him
hey. Why do you think the way to
(22:35):
you? And now you're having that sort of
sharing of information that, like I said, regardless
of whether 1 comes on your side or
vice versa,
there is indeed a shared benefit
in a win collectively between the 2 of
you that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Yeah. That's
that's so true because people...
People want to be heard. We want to
(22:56):
be... I think it's just it's just the
way we're wired. We wanna be the center
of attention or at least
I maybe not everybody, But I would say
a lot of people, even shy people, I
think at times, you know, they they still
wanna be able to be seen. They wanna
be... You know, heard at times. And if
you are coming at them kindly and and,
yeah. And then showing, you know, jenna genuine
(23:19):
interest
and
what they have to say then I think
that will go a long way towards helping
to to foster certainly better communications. And then
Yeah. And then you can decide to either,
you know, for... You you might be able
to change the person's mind you don't know
or... But at least you'll understand where they're
coming from and that makes... A huge difference.
(23:40):
I think just being able to be able
to understand another person's point of view if
we all did that more.
Think Life will so much better. Let me
you this Grace.
I want you to think for a quick
moment. Who's like, your best friend? You don't
have to give me a name, but just
think about your best friend. Mh. For that
person,
(24:00):
what makes that best friend, your best friend.
I would say,
well, they they do listen to me. But,
yeah. I've... That's what that's 1 of the
key things is they will... They will let
me, you know, vent and
and they will be
supportive. And and I and I'm thinking too
(24:20):
it's like, there have been times where we
have
where we have disagreed, and, you know, we're
or I did something even that they didn't
like and then I, you know, made a
amend.
For it. But, yeah, I think it is.
It's because we are... We're both willing to
listen to each other, and And we'll to
support each other And so I think... Yeah,
that does make world of difference.
(24:42):
Yeah. You took my second question right out
my my lips on that 1, because I
was gonna ask you is it's, like, with
your best friend.
For how many years have you agreed on
everything?
Yeah. I would say no.
And in fact, I'm thinking of a... And
I'm even thinking of another. I've got a
friend from from college that I'm still,
you know, we still talk Not very often,
(25:02):
but, you know, but when we pick up,
it's like we were, you know, back together
again And and, yeah, I'm a thinking even
the last conversation. I think she said a
couple things. I was like, yeah. I don't
quite...
I don't quite agree with that. You know.
But which like... It'll get over anyway. You
know? Yeah. I'm not gonna let that ruin
our friendship. So that's the main idea though,
because
(25:23):
I think everyone can think of a best
friend, a significant other or spouse somebody that
has a significant role in his or her
life. And if you think about it, honestly,
you probably have had disagreements in the past
are in the present. But for some reason,
you 2 are still together. You're still connected.
You're still friends, you're still married,
(25:44):
you're still together. And so what happens is
I want us to think about that from
the sense of we can do this because
we're already doing this among people that we
care about that we go beyond the surface
with them, We do go through this agreement
and fight sometimes.
But yet instead, we found the way to
navigate it because
(26:05):
I believe we realize that the
relationship between 1 another is more important
than whether or not you're right,
or you're wrong.
The
relationship should trump whether or not somebody is
right or wrong. And that holds the day
with keeping these type of relationships and friendships
going in the distance.
(26:27):
So the question then becomes what can we
learn from those type of relationships friendships
and apply them with people
that we may not currently have those type
of relationships or friendships with. And so what
I will often imagine is in A lot
of that that we learn from those relationships,
we can apply also for those we don't
have the same type of relationships with. Mh.
(26:49):
Yeah. And then I think that helps then
to possibly build that type of relationship because
you're willing to do that to treat that
person.
The way you would. And and
the other thing though I'm I'm I'm kinda
of thinking of and this kinda of goes
back to in the beginning when we were
talking about,
you know, dealing with people though,
there are some
(27:10):
people sometimes though that
no matter what they just like to be
right,
So so
how how do you handle those and especially,
maybe it is, you know, even like a
significant other. Or maybe, you know, maybe your
maybe your sister or, you know, your brother
or something,
that someone... That it is important to, or
(27:31):
maybe even a boss, I don't know, or
which that makes it even more challenging. So
what what do you... What advice do you
have for people in that situation. So a
couple of things come to mind for me,
Gloria. 1 is,
there's a curiosity
in my mind to wanna ask person. Why
is it so important for you to be
right in this conversation?
(27:52):
And I would just let that person answer?
I'd be quiet, and I will let that
person answer.
Why is it so important for to be
right here? Because 2 things gonna happen. 1,
you're actually gonna learn something.
For what that person's gonna say as far
as why that person has to be right.
2,
they probably aren't expecting to say that. So
in some sense,
(28:12):
it's causing them to reflect.
And maybe they can come to the gist
stuff understanding. I never thought about it I
like that or this is why
or
maybe it's not as important for me to
be right. Because of the follow for me
would be, is it... It's so important for
you to be right to come at the
expense of our relationship. That's what I would
(28:34):
ask afterwards and let that person answer it.
Yeah. And that answer that that person's gonna
ask answer a response
will help guide you on where you go
from here.
Because 1 of the things I truly believe
is that when you share something that's important
to you, that's a thought that you didn't
share with other people beforehand,
(28:55):
it's a gift. And what happens with the
gift is
you now see how that other person treats
and respects your gift of giving them that
information. And what they do with it is
gonna help pre for you, will you keep
giving that gift? Will you do something different
next time. And oftentimes at my own relationships,
(29:16):
relationships that keep progressing,
I've been predicated on people that
appreciate it and cherish,
in respected the gift of my opinion perspective
in the way they kept this growing. The
ones that didn't, they showed me clearly where
they stood
maybe they wanted to be more right than,
you know, have a relationship. Right. And you
(29:37):
make a decision 1 way other, we're just
gonna have to do something different here, and
it might mean
parting ways. Now.
That is so valuable. I I really...
Appreciate that. It and it's
it's so basic. Kind of why why would
never think about that, but it really does
make so much sense. And it... Because it
really it gives that person a chance to...
(29:59):
Yeah, to really kinda take a look at
it and and justify it for themselves and
I'm I'm so glad I asked you about
that, and I love your response to that.
That was perfect. Right.
Is there...
Anything else that I should asked you about
that I didn't with relationship to
relationships. So
(30:20):
Well, 1 thing I'll say is... So I
I kinda talked about steps 1, 2 and
3. And a little bit of step 5,
which is, you know, cherish the relationship, but
I'll finish off 4 and 5 here. Step
4 is talking about essentially,
you know, at the end of the the
debate, what do we agreed
or not, or agree to disagree.
Right? Let's do what we did when we
(30:43):
were younger,
playing sports. The end of the game,
winner or lose,
what did we do as a team? We
just lined up, we shook hands and we
said good game. Whether you felt like it
or not? You still had to line up
and shake that person's hand. Because otherwise, you're
not being a
good sport. And what I would argue is
(31:04):
good sports is not only needed when we're
young,
but good sports mission is also needed even
more so when we get older,
because nobody likes a sore loser,
just as much just no 1 likes a
sore winner. And so to be able to
have a debate or a conversation back and
forth and still appreciate that person gloria. Thanks
so much for sharing your input here. I
(31:26):
didn't know this. I didn't know why this
was so important to you, but I appreciate
you trusting me with that information. First, I
have a conversation even we disagreed. Like, I
appreciate that. And that leads to step 5
where you can respect that person
and love that person
But more importantly, even if you disagree, chalk
it up as diversity thought, something I wish
more people would embrace in their relationships. Right?
(31:49):
But even more so, keep the door open
for continued
conversation. You shouldn't look at this as a
1 off
transactional up and done sort of thing. It
could be something where like, you know what,
Gloria. Thank you for telling me that,
I saw that there's an event with the
speaker that talks about this exact topic we
were just talking about. While don't we go
(32:09):
together. It maybe have some coffee afterwards in
in continuing the conversation just something to keep
the ball rolling because oftentimes,
you learn why as a result, people respect
you enough even more so to invest more
of your time to get to know you
better. Right? But even more so what it
illustrates still is, once again,
(32:30):
the
relationship is more important
than whether someone is right or wrong.
So good. So good. I
I want your book to be, like, required
reading for congress, you know?
Because
there used to be a boy on time.
(32:50):
I still vaguely remember when I was little,
you know, we're where we could actually have
have debates between... The political parties, you know,
and have them compromise and come up with
with legislation. So...
And and our... We're too glory, Like... I've
actually... That part of the motivation for me
too because when I was growing up, I've
seen 2 people
(33:10):
battle it out in the debate room. I've
seen 2 attorneys
go at each other's throats in the courtroom.
But the odd thing is
no 1 really talks about what happened oftentimes
after the case was done.
Those same 2 attorneys often and saw
outside the courtroom, they did shake hands. Yeah.
More times than night. And more times than
(33:32):
not. I saw them... Having a burger together,
getting the drink after work, going to their,
you know, friend's daughter's soccer game or getting
holiday cards,
So it was, like, what? Like, you disagree
with each other, you were at each other's
throats and you still wanted to hang out
together. Was like, yeah. What I did that...
That's that's part of work,
(33:53):
but there can be something beyond work and
beyond this agreement that you can still have
a relationship with and that was, like, a
huge,
like, light bulb moment for me. And I
think that we don't have enough examples of
that in our society nowadays,
that, unfortunately people are not thinking that's possible.
And that's why this book in this framework
(34:14):
I would feel is so important, to help
people understand not only is it possible,
but it's something we've been through before. We
just gotta relearn what the rules of engaged
are, to bring more of that back in
today and going forward for the next generation
to repeat as well. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Because
it comes down to... It really does come
down to respect. It's showing respect for the
(34:36):
other person
being able to respect them.
As a whole person because, you know, I'm
sure, you know, you are, you know, you
have a d degree, You know, I believe
we are all children of god. So that
but that means all of us. You know,
not not just, you know, a few of
us know all of us are. So if
we can see God in each other,
(34:58):
then we're gonna treat them better. And so,
yeah, we just need to start... And and
it starts with you know, everybody listening to
this podcast today. Everybody, you know, watching it,
just start practicing that. You don't, do do
what you can where you are.
And
and that's and that's the important thing.
(35:19):
Oh,
I, this is we got a Actual. Question
here and see what we gonna to tackle
this real quick. Just someone on Linkedin was
asking. What if the attack or resistance comes
across consistently,
where it just seems personal and not a
disagreement. So this is a perfect opportunity to
say, listen.
Do I wanna stay involved with this?
(35:40):
Or do I wanna opt out? Mh. You
know, just as much as you are, you
know, able to engage with it And this
is part of the thing for me too
because you know, sometimes you get so pressured
that you wanna stay in a relationship or,
you know, because it's like, like, that's my
that's my my my mother. That's my sister.
That's my friend. That's my spouse. That... That's
my colleague. So you feel like you have
to just
(36:01):
endure it. You just have to take it.
And so the part of me... That's it
goes too full. 1 is, you know, is
this an opportunity to help educate people with
this framework with this new approach.
To disagree respectfully. Say it's okay to disagree.
Let's just go about things that are at
are way than before. Right? So that person
can opt in for that and go that
(36:23):
journey with you and respect you for doing
that, or on the flip side, if they
say, m, I still wanna call you outside
of your name. I still wanna bad mouth
you I still wanna do these things because
I'm just so angry. Once again, having enough
respect for yourself. This is... Like, comes to,
like, self respect self loves without self advocacy.
And say, listen,
I
respect you,
(36:44):
I care about you. I also respecting care
about me.
And I love myself enough to know that
I don't wanna put myself in a situation
or in an environment
where I'm am gonna be consistently attacked. Or
hate it or criticized for having a different
point of view from yours.
And because of that, we have 2 options
(37:04):
here either we do better and continue to
engage
or
would go about different ways because I respect
myself enough to listen. I don't I don't
wanna do this to myself. I don't want
it to be witness to this,
and maybe my absence. They may motivate you
to think about doing something different so that
we can beat together it again. Yeah. Absolutely.
(37:27):
Yeah. Because it... You really do need to
take care of yourself first. And and if
it is... If it is getting to be
too personal, then you have every right to
be able to take care of yourself and
say, I'm withdrawing from this situation. So I
appreciate you sharing that.
I know this has been wonderful conversation. And
we could probably keep going for for a
(37:47):
while, but I do wanna to respect. Your
time as well as our audience. So I
wanna ask you to,
if someone wants to be able to get
your book, or to be able to contact
you? What's the best place for people to
do that? Yeah. So the best place to
to get my book disagree without interest respect.
Out to respectfully debate with those who think,
believe and vote differently from you.
(38:09):
It's on the Amazon. So you can look
it up by that title
I also understand it's a pretty long title
subtitle. So if that's the case, you can
look up disagree without this respect or look
up my name, Philip black.
PHILIPBLACKETT.
You'll see that book along with some other
books I've written,
or you can also you know, contact me
(38:31):
on my website at philip black dot com
or connect with me on Facebook, linkedin, Twitter
Instagram,
just look up my name Philip Black.
Alright. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for
being here today, and I know... Our audience
got a lot of value out of it
today. I received a lot of value out
of it, and I'm glad we didn't have
(38:51):
to... We didn't have to disagree today. So
But who knows if if we chat again
later, you know, we may and but that's
okay. That is okay. We out.
Absolutely
Oh, so thank you so much for being.
Or did I really appreciate it.
Absolutely. Thank you so much for the opportunity,
Gloria. I appreciate our conversation.
And I do wanna thank all of you
(39:13):
as well for for watching and for
listening, and I hope that you will, join
us again, and
next week. And if you weren't subscribed to
the podcast yet, make sure that you
are subscribed on your favorite podcast platform,
And
let's see. I think that's probably gonna do
it. Yeah. That's gonna do it for me
for this time. So until
(39:34):
next week. I encourage you to go out
and live fully, love deeply and engage authentically.
Did you know that a majority... Of entrepreneurs
tend to discount the importance of their work.
And a good number feel their success is
simply due to luck.
If I know from personal experience that self
(39:54):
doubt can keep you from having the kind
of life and business you desire.
That's why I created a free guide called
uniquely you. How to move from self doubt
to self love, in 4 simple stuff
To claim your free guide, go to l,
love engage dot gift.
That's live lu engage dot GIFT.
Because 1 of the things I learned is
that in any interpersonal relationship, whether it's your
you, with your kids,
your parent, your your colleagues at work, your
friends,
you're bound to find a disagreement, you're bound
to find something that you don't see a
hide eye.
But that doesn't mean that you can't be
in in relationship or a apprenticeship with that
person.
(00:22):
I am Gloria Grace Rand, founder of the
love method, and author of the number 1
Amazon best seller, live love, and engage. How
to stop doubting year's out and start being
yourself.
In this podcast,
we share practical advice from a spiritual perspective.
How to live fully
love deeply and engage authentically.
(00:45):
So you can create a life and business
with more impact,
influence and income.
Welcome to live love engage.
Do you find it challenging to share a
difference of opinion with
employee?
(01:05):
Or clients, family and friends,
while the author of disagree
without
disrespect is joining us today to ease offer
his guidance on how to disagree with the
people you love and work with without damaging
your relationships. So bet but for I'd bring
him on, I'd like to welcome those of
(01:25):
you who are new to live Love engaged
and let you know that I am Gloria
Grace, and I help. Female entrepreneurs
attract more clients with calm, clarity and confidence
by releasing negative thought patterns, like self doubt
and poor self worth.
And I am delighted to have Philip Black
(01:47):
as my guest in addition to being an
author, he is a
consultants and entrepreneur,
he has a master of D degree
and an Mba from harvard business school, so
he's no s.
So I'm gonna bring him up to the
stage right now. I'm gonna officially welcome you
fell up to live love engaged
Thank you so much, Gloria having me. Happy
(02:09):
to be here with you. Well, I'm
I'm really glad to be talking about this
because if
anybody...
Frankly, in the world, but definitely in the
United States,
there's just been so much,
strife, I guess and and and
discord and it just seems to be so
(02:29):
difficult to be able to disagree
civil
with anyone more. Attention just get really high.
And
I I know that, you know, you've obviously
written a book On there so let's just
get right to it. So let's talk about,
you know, how are we able to have
conversations? How can we? Start having conversations with
(02:52):
people and and be able to disagree
respectfully.
Right. So I I think it's a great
question, Gloria, and So it's a question that
goes beyond just this year. This is this
is something that we have to navigate.
Every year with everybody.
Because here's 1 thing that I would say
to you, Gloria, I I know for a
(03:13):
fact that if you and I spent a
week together, I can assure you 2 things
are gonna happen.
1, you're gonna find some things that you
and I are in complete agreement with. Feel
like we're brothers and sisters.
The other thing I'm gonna guarantee you on
is you're probably gonna find some things
that either you disagree with me on. Or
(03:34):
vice versa, I disagree with you on, and
we might be on polar opposites.
And that's normal. That's okay
you see the problem isn't this disagreements in
our relationships.
It's how we navigate them respectfully.
And it's not... Having to deal with an
election. This can go or 2 people thinking
(03:54):
differently about a problem
or believing in something different
beyond just who are you're gonna vote for.
Because 1 of the things I learned is
that in any interpersonal relationship, whether it's your
you, with your kids,
your parents, your your colleagues at work, your
friends,
you're bound to find a disagreement, you're bound
to find, something that you don't see a
(04:15):
Hide eye.
But that doesn't mean that you can't be
in in relationship or a friendship with that
person. I would argue the opposite that it
is possible
for us to disagree with someone's view
and still
respect and love that person
in a healthy
relationship.
Well, I understand that you've got... You have,
(04:37):
like, a 5 step framework.
For for doing this. Can you share, you
know, maybe at least a couple of couple
of those steps out of of you. I
mean, I wanna necessarily give everything a ask
suspect it's in the book and we want
people to be able to buy the book.
But maybe you can, you know, share 1
or 2 steps with us. Yeah. So I
think the first thing we have to do
if we want to disagree with others respectfully
(04:59):
is first,
separate the idea or believe, from the identity
of the believer.
The reason why that's an important Gloria is
that oftentimes depending on the person
depending on the idea at hand,
you may come across somebody that is so
intertwined with that idea or belief that it
essentially becomes who he or she is.
(05:20):
So the challenge with that is if you
disagreeing with that idea or belief, that person
may take of it as you're disagreeing with
who they are. And if you're criticizing that
idea or belief, they may take it as
you criticizing them,
or hating
them, which
Makes sense for them to get defensive,
raise their guard up, maybe be aggressive, maybe
(05:42):
given to some name calling with you because
they're trying to defend themselves.
But if you can separate the idea or
belief from the identity,
then we can actually have a a going
conversation about it. That's step
Yeah. That makes that makes sense. I mean,
because I can...
Because I'm just just thinking about it it's,
like, you... Really
(06:02):
can feel like, you know, they're just really
hurting you
because you're you're so closely tied in with
that. So how how can you
well, actually, I'm gonna ask you this first.
How can you
how can you recognize that? Because I'm wondering
if it... Because maybe
it doesn't seem necessarily, like it may be
easy to recognize. I don't know.
(06:23):
What do you think? Well, a a easy
way to define out is... Somebody's
emotional response. Right? If somebody is really
drawn
to what you're talking about, if their feel
particularly,
heighten as far as their response to you,
whether it's in their voice and their manner.
If it's in their actual body posture,
(06:44):
meaning you might have struck a nerve here.
You might have pushed the button
that you can at least be able to
say, hey, Like, let's let's push back a
little bit, pump the brakes a little bit.
I'm not attacking you. Let's be clear. I'm
not criticizing who you are. I actually respect
you. It's more so the idea or believe
we're talking about. That's where we see differently,
(07:05):
and
that's okay.
Now,
what happens though... Because I'm because I'm thinking
sometimes,
it just seems... And I'm thinking right now
I had I had a friend of mine.
I think who was in a conversation with
someone
where it was just... She just couldn't get
through to her, and she finally just had
to just kinda walk away So is... Does
(07:27):
there come a point where sometimes, you know,
if if you... Even if you're, you know,
trying to say, you know, look come out
attacking you, you know, I'm just, you know,
I'm just It's just this issue.
Do sometimes do you just have to kind
of back off?
Absolutely. Need sometimes, it's not... It doesn't Be
who to have a conversation with someone if
you feel like either it's gonna get personal
(07:49):
pretty quickly.
If we're gonna get involved in name calling
rather than actually debating the merits to the
issue at hand,
or if you feel in some way threatened,
I wouldn't want you to be in a
position like that. And so it probably is
best for you to advocate for yourself to
say you know what? I don't mind having
this conversation with you, Gloria, but I sense
that this is pretty tense, and I don't
(08:11):
want this to, you know, threaten 1 or
the other or make 1 of us feel
bad. And so if it's not the right
time, because it's not the right topic,
I'm perfectly fine with us opting out of
having this debate or us having this conversation.
We can talk about something else. We can
do something else. We don't have to add
it because
What I've learned is that when somebody sharing
their perspective opinion with you gloria,
(08:33):
we ought take of it as a gift,
The reason why I say that is because
oftentimes most people don't have to share with
you anything.
Oftentimes in fear of disagreement and fear of
what that disagreement can lead to
a lot of people keep their conversations on
the surface slope,
unless they come across somebody that they feel
more
trusting
(08:53):
that they could be more vulnerable and open
with and honest,
and and that's where you're having these more
candid
conversations,
because they feel like they're in a safer
space to have them, even if they don't
agree on everything or they don't know everything
So it's in this sense too that that's
not the case with the interaction you're having.
(09:14):
It's okay to say you know what? This
might not be the right time for us.
Or I do wanna get this conversation,
and you set the boundaries at are rules
and how you do it, you know, 1
would be the sense of I want to
debate the idea more so based on its
merits.
Right? Let's let's talk about the facts, the
logic.
The research, the reviews, the the
(09:37):
results, the performance analysis, all that sort of,
like, trying to keep it objective.
Apples to apples comparison,
rather than all up in your emotions, trying
to name call and that sort of thing.
And if we can do that great. But
if we can't, And once again, this is
nothing against you. This is nothing personal towards
you, but I'd choose not to go down
(09:59):
this road with you And that's not gonna
be the case. And that's perfectly fine for
you to advocate for yourself that way.
Yeah. Is... So what what other steps can
can people take? Let's say that
now let's go the other way that they
they do find that they're able to
engage the person a little bit more that
they're gonna be able to have a coverage
(10:20):
decision. Or actually, let me ask it this
way.
What
are there maybe be some pit pitfalls that
you wanna avoid when you're... You know, let's
say you're gonna go ahead and have this
discussion, but you wanna make sure that, you
know, that you don't maybe inadvertently push their
buttons. Let's say. Well, oftentimes it's it's... The
beauty of conversations when they're beyond the surface,
(10:41):
that that's the only way you find out
if there are any landline to avoid. And
sometimes it's just a matter of trial and
error
that you might push the button that you
didn't expect to push, but you have to
address at that point. But I think what
comes out of this, Gloria is the second
step where,
you know, it's okay to disagree with the
(11:02):
idea or belief, and still respect and love
the believer.
You know, 1 of the things I learned
growing up in church was we call to
hate the sin and love the center, So
2 things could be true. I can disagree
with what you just said, Gloria,
and
I can still respect and love you as
my friend. And I think if nothing else
(11:22):
we take away from the book or our
conversation, If we're able to have that sort
of
agreement with people we talk to, the, hey,
I made disagreed with what you just said
or what you did,
and
I still respect and love you as my
friend, my child.
My colleague at work, my neighbor. What it
does is it helps disarm people brings their
(11:44):
guard down,
but he feel like, okay. I can have
this conversation with Philip, and he's not gonna
all of him a sudden un unfriendly me.
He's not gonna of a sudden,
swipe left or un follow me or give
me the cold shoulder or curse me out
on social media in the comment section. We
could actually have just a conversation just sharing
ideas,
(12:04):
sharing information. That even if we disagree,
I think that's a breath of fresh air
for a lot of people,
if you allow that safe space to be
involved.
Yeah.
That makes so much sense, and and it
is... It is kinda sad because I know
I've been seeing on social media people, you
know, un unfriendly. And and, frankly, you know,
(12:25):
sometimes I have
done that as well, only because it just
seems like the level of vi material has
just been too high
of what they're saying.
Not even just necessarily to me, but even
to other people and I've decided that, you
know,
I don't have to
necessarily especially if it's not someone that I've
been, like, a close friend with for a
long time, You know, because that's the thing
(12:46):
on social media, they're sort of this different
levels. You know, there's people maybe that... You've
known for many, many years. Maybe you even
met them in person, shocker as opposed to
be why you won't might lie. I think
it can be sometimes a little more easily
easier to, like go of some of those
relationships maybe that aren't quite as as deep
as you have had with other people.
(13:07):
I wanted to asking
what actually prompted you to write this book?
Was it something that you experienced yourself or,
you know, talk... I'd love to know a
little bit about that?
Yeah. The secret about this book, Gloria is
I actually wrote this originally for myself
because,
you know, I went through a number of
different things it up at even to this
day,
(13:27):
where, you know, it could be awkward to
have a different point of view, you wanna
share it with somebody, throw but you're afraid
of how that person's gonna respond or better
yet how they're gonna
reflect on who you are. And if their
relationship with you is gonna change.
As a result of having a different point
of view. So even for me, you know,
the book Origin came, you know, last year
(13:49):
around 4 for July. So I invited my
sister and her family. I invite my mother
to my house with my family to all
get together for the fourth of July in
fireworks.
And so my sister and I were in
the living room with my mother. We were
having a conversation. And quite frankly, I don't
remember what the topic of the conversation was,
Gloria.
What I do know was, we were on
(14:10):
opposite sides of the spectrum on this issue.
While we were actually, like,
discussing some people would say debating the issue
at hand,
Yeah.
My mom jumps in. And I thought initially
okay, Are you gonna pick my side and
you're gonna pick my sister's side. And she
was like, neither.
We're not gonna have this conversation because of
what I don't wanna see is fireworks before
(14:31):
tonight.
Yeah. So
why
understand her intent behind it as far as
trying to preserve the peace,
keep a family memory, something we look at
fondly years later. What I do realize the
impact of her action was, it made it
a loss opportunity for us. And what I
mean by that is
(14:52):
My sister and I, we don't see each
other often. We don't live in the same
neighborhood, let alone the same state. So when
we see each other in person,
that's significant.
And I think you probably would agree with,
Gloria that in the age of smartphones,
social media, and texting.
Some conversations are better to be had in
person. Yeah. Face to face.
(15:13):
And that was an opportunity where I could
have shared something that was important to me
or learn something about her in person
that we didn't have. And that was all
because of fear
of a disagreement
potentially in what that could lead to. And
so my thought coming out of that was,
you know, wow. Like, if that was happening
with me,
(15:34):
I wonder how many other people around the
world
are experiencing something similar,
where essentially, there's something that's important to them,
They wanna be able to share with somebody
they care about, but the concern about whether
or not we disagree and whether or not
the relationship,
suffers or even ends because of it. You
don't even get into that cop type of
(15:54):
conversation. You keep things surface level. You do
small talk forever at nausea,
because of that fear. And so I said
to myself, hey, is there a better way
we could have done this? What's the framework
we can embark on that to help navigate
this agreement respectfully?
And that's what came out ultimately in the
book, disagree without this respect how to respectfully
(16:15):
debate with those who think
believe
and vote differently
from you. Mh
Well,
The, yeah, families are
family discussions can can definitely get get heated,
and and I know that,
especially, like I said, I mean, that over
(16:35):
the last,
you know, 08:10
10 years, 12 years or whatever. It's just...
We've just gotten so
quick to...
Sometimes even form opinions and and then and
and quick to to fly off the handle.
I think sometimes too
And and so I think
I I would think 1 of the things
(16:55):
that
I would advocate and maybe, you know, let
me know if you you agree with is
I think is to...
When you're getting involved in a conversation to
sometimes just stop and and and pause and
breathe for a minute and think before you
speak,
because that doesn't wonders
for helping you to get out of that
reactive
line because especially if you do get triggered,
(17:18):
you know, just just pause for a moment.
Just just think before you speak, and and
then, you know, then you can decide, you
know, is just you know, do you wanna
walk away from that situation? Or and do
you want be able to, you know, again,
as you were saying earlier, you know, let's...
I'm I'm not... You know, I'm not
upset with you. It's it's the issue. I
(17:39):
wanna be able to discuss this issue. And
if this isn't the right time for that,
you know, that's fine.
In something else I would add to gloria,
like, even with the breathing and thinking before
you speak. I also would say, this is
a perfect opportunity to
communicate almost to the point of over communicating,
that it's okay for us to have this
(18:00):
conversation. It's okay for us to disagree,
I still respect you. I still love you.
Nothing is gonna change off of that.
And so being able to help assure somebody,
almost to the sense like, I expect us
to not See and everything. Oddly enough and
the fact that we do disagree, it's okay
(18:21):
you don't have to be afraid of that.
You don't have to run out the room.
You don't have to hang up the phone.
And I'm... Still gonna be here even at
the end of the conversation if we don't
see how eye, I'll still shake your hand
afterwards.
I'll still wanna get a burger or a
drink or pizza with you afterwards.
I'll still keep you as a friend on
(18:43):
Facebook,
Like, something that simple. If every 1 of
us had taken that option more often,
we wouldn't have this sort of, I would
assure you because you're helping people understand disagreement
is expected. Mh and
you can still respect 1 another through that
disagreement and still have a relationship. Yeah. Yeah.
(19:06):
I was I was, like... To say, you
know, let's just agree to disagree.
You know, we're we're just gonna... That's it.
We're just disagreeing on this matter and that's
okay
we'll we don't have to. But I wanna
ask you something though maybe that
might help people to
I I get... Or or maybe just is
this in
(19:26):
what your opinion is? You know, is there
a way still though that we can... You
know, try to find some common ground. Maybe
just, you know, by asking questions about the
other person, being curious about, you know, why
they do, have an opinion that is, you
know, posed to yours. What what do you
think about that? Yeah. So I think that's
perfect. You know, that's part of. Step 3
(19:47):
when you're talking about debating based on the
issues at hand based on merit, not on
feelings,
not on name calling, not on getting things
personal, a part of that is dealing with
active listening
and asking questions,
being curious, like trying to see beyond the
surface of why somebody is believing or thinking
or voting the way that they are, that's
(20:09):
different from yours,
and just that sense of curiosity
honestly works wonders
because you're learning something from that person that
probably
99 percent of the world doesn't know. And
simply by just asking it a question
and then following up with another question. Not
with what you're gonna say next. Not your
rebuttal,
(20:29):
but just take, like, disarm myself. Like, look,
I'm not even debating you at this, Gloria,
I just wanna learn.
Because now,
was she shift the objective from... I'm trying
to prove myself right and superior to your
point of view when prove you wrong,
and I changed that to more of, this
is just an information sharing
(20:49):
exercise. This is just or more of exchange
where I'm actually getting to know you better
than I did before having this conversation in
the first place. So already, that's a win
And if you look at it from that
standpoint,
now you're saying to yourself okay, help me
understand,
why do you think the way you think?
What is so important about it? Is there
(21:11):
a backstory behind it? There something I'm not
seeing. What would you wish more people knew
about what's going on, or how you thought.
Like, answers to those questions,
you get beneath the surface.
You start to better understand that person
a lot more.
And if nothing else, even if you quote
unquote, agree to disagree,
(21:32):
what often happens, Gloria is, you come with
from that conversation
Not only just would a breath fresh air
as I said before, but more soda sense
the same, like, wow, like, I wasn't expecting
that philip. Because I hadn't expect it from
anybody. I'm usually, like, coming in with my
fist, ready to be on the defensive ready
to call somebody outside the name, But this
1 actually listened to me. He actually wasn't
(21:54):
intrigued. He actually was curious. He actually wanted
to learn more. And even if we didn't
see odd eye,
he appreciated us having the conversation. Wasn't waste
time to him. And I think honestly,
I know that that my intent in doing
that wasn't to win the argument.
But I can assure you a byproduct of
that approach is,
that person you just had the conversation with
(22:15):
is more open to what you have to
say afterward if for no other reason, the
law reciprocity plays a role here too, like,
okay, if he heard me out, and he
was respectful enough to ask questions in that
sort
maybe not what everyone else,
but maybe what philip up.
I might return to favor and ask him
hey. Why do you think the way to
(22:35):
you? And now you're having that sort of
sharing of information that, like I said, regardless
of whether 1 comes on your side or
vice versa,
there is indeed a shared benefit
in a win collectively between the 2 of
you that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Yeah. That's
that's so true because people...
People want to be heard. We want to
(22:56):
be... I think it's just it's just the
way we're wired. We wanna be the center
of attention or at least
I maybe not everybody, But I would say
a lot of people, even shy people, I
think at times, you know, they they still
wanna be able to be seen. They wanna
be... You know, heard at times. And if
you are coming at them kindly and and,
yeah. And then showing, you know, jenna genuine
(23:19):
interest
and
what they have to say then I think
that will go a long way towards helping
to to foster certainly better communications. And then
Yeah. And then you can decide to either,
you know, for... You you might be able
to change the person's mind you don't know
or... But at least you'll understand where they're
coming from and that makes... A huge difference.
(23:40):
I think just being able to be able
to understand another person's point of view if
we all did that more.
Think Life will so much better. Let me
you this Grace.
I want you to think for a quick
moment. Who's like, your best friend? You don't
have to give me a name, but just
think about your best friend. Mh. For that
person,
(24:00):
what makes that best friend, your best friend.
I would say,
well, they they do listen to me. But,
yeah. I've... That's what that's 1 of the
key things is they will... They will let
me, you know, vent and
and they will be
supportive. And and I and I'm thinking too
(24:20):
it's like, there have been times where we
have
where we have disagreed, and, you know, we're
or I did something even that they didn't
like and then I, you know, made a
amend.
For it. But, yeah, I think it is.
It's because we are... We're both willing to
listen to each other, and And we'll to
support each other And so I think... Yeah,
that does make world of difference.
(24:42):
Yeah. You took my second question right out
my my lips on that 1, because I
was gonna ask you is it's, like, with
your best friend.
For how many years have you agreed on
everything?
Yeah. I would say no.
And in fact, I'm thinking of a... And
I'm even thinking of another. I've got a
friend from from college that I'm still,
you know, we still talk Not very often,
(25:02):
but, you know, but when we pick up,
it's like we were, you know, back together
again And and, yeah, I'm a thinking even
the last conversation. I think she said a
couple things. I was like, yeah. I don't
quite...
I don't quite agree with that. You know.
But which like... It'll get over anyway. You
know? Yeah. I'm not gonna let that ruin
our friendship. So that's the main idea though,
because
(25:23):
I think everyone can think of a best
friend, a significant other or spouse somebody that
has a significant role in his or her
life. And if you think about it, honestly,
you probably have had disagreements in the past
are in the present. But for some reason,
you 2 are still together. You're still connected.
You're still friends, you're still married,
(25:44):
you're still together. And so what happens is
I want us to think about that from
the sense of we can do this because
we're already doing this among people that we
care about that we go beyond the surface
with them, We do go through this agreement
and fight sometimes.
But yet instead, we found the way to
navigate it because
(26:05):
I believe we realize that the
relationship between 1 another is more important
than whether or not you're right,
or you're wrong.
The
relationship should trump whether or not somebody is
right or wrong. And that holds the day
with keeping these type of relationships and friendships
going in the distance.
(26:27):
So the question then becomes what can we
learn from those type of relationships friendships
and apply them with people
that we may not currently have those type
of relationships or friendships with. And so what
I will often imagine is in A lot
of that that we learn from those relationships,
we can apply also for those we don't
have the same type of relationships with. Mh.
(26:49):
Yeah. And then I think that helps then
to possibly build that type of relationship because
you're willing to do that to treat that
person.
The way you would. And and
the other thing though I'm I'm I'm kinda
of thinking of and this kinda of goes
back to in the beginning when we were
talking about,
you know, dealing with people though,
there are some
(27:10):
people sometimes though that
no matter what they just like to be
right,
So so
how how do you handle those and especially,
maybe it is, you know, even like a
significant other. Or maybe, you know, maybe your
maybe your sister or, you know, your brother
or something,
that someone... That it is important to, or
(27:31):
maybe even a boss, I don't know, or
which that makes it even more challenging. So
what what do you... What advice do you
have for people in that situation. So a
couple of things come to mind for me,
Gloria. 1 is,
there's a curiosity
in my mind to wanna ask person. Why
is it so important for you to be
right in this conversation?
(27:52):
And I would just let that person answer?
I'd be quiet, and I will let that
person answer.
Why is it so important for to be
right here? Because 2 things gonna happen. 1,
you're actually gonna learn something.
For what that person's gonna say as far
as why that person has to be right.
2,
they probably aren't expecting to say that. So
in some sense,
(28:12):
it's causing them to reflect.
And maybe they can come to the gist
stuff understanding. I never thought about it I
like that or this is why
or
maybe it's not as important for me to
be right. Because of the follow for me
would be, is it... It's so important for
you to be right to come at the
expense of our relationship. That's what I would
(28:34):
ask afterwards and let that person answer it.
Yeah. And that answer that that person's gonna
ask answer a response
will help guide you on where you go
from here.
Because 1 of the things I truly believe
is that when you share something that's important
to you, that's a thought that you didn't
share with other people beforehand,
(28:55):
it's a gift. And what happens with the
gift is
you now see how that other person treats
and respects your gift of giving them that
information. And what they do with it is
gonna help pre for you, will you keep
giving that gift? Will you do something different
next time. And oftentimes at my own relationships,
(29:16):
relationships that keep progressing,
I've been predicated on people that
appreciate it and cherish,
in respected the gift of my opinion perspective
in the way they kept this growing. The
ones that didn't, they showed me clearly where
they stood
maybe they wanted to be more right than,
you know, have a relationship. Right. And you
(29:37):
make a decision 1 way other, we're just
gonna have to do something different here, and
it might mean
parting ways. Now.
That is so valuable. I I really...
Appreciate that. It and it's
it's so basic. Kind of why why would
never think about that, but it really does
make so much sense. And it... Because it
really it gives that person a chance to...
(29:59):
Yeah, to really kinda take a look at
it and and justify it for themselves and
I'm I'm so glad I asked you about
that, and I love your response to that.
That was perfect. Right.
Is there...
Anything else that I should asked you about
that I didn't with relationship to
relationships. So
(30:20):
Well, 1 thing I'll say is... So I
I kinda talked about steps 1, 2 and
3. And a little bit of step 5,
which is, you know, cherish the relationship, but
I'll finish off 4 and 5 here. Step
4 is talking about essentially,
you know, at the end of the the
debate, what do we agreed
or not, or agree to disagree.
Right? Let's do what we did when we
(30:43):
were younger,
playing sports. The end of the game,
winner or lose,
what did we do as a team? We
just lined up, we shook hands and we
said good game. Whether you felt like it
or not? You still had to line up
and shake that person's hand. Because otherwise, you're
not being a
good sport. And what I would argue is
(31:04):
good sports is not only needed when we're
young,
but good sports mission is also needed even
more so when we get older,
because nobody likes a sore loser,
just as much just no 1 likes a
sore winner. And so to be able to
have a debate or a conversation back and
forth and still appreciate that person gloria. Thanks
so much for sharing your input here. I
(31:26):
didn't know this. I didn't know why this
was so important to you, but I appreciate
you trusting me with that information. First, I
have a conversation even we disagreed. Like, I
appreciate that. And that leads to step 5
where you can respect that person
and love that person
But more importantly, even if you disagree, chalk
it up as diversity thought, something I wish
more people would embrace in their relationships. Right?
(31:49):
But even more so, keep the door open
for continued
conversation. You shouldn't look at this as a
1 off
transactional up and done sort of thing. It
could be something where like, you know what,
Gloria. Thank you for telling me that,
I saw that there's an event with the
speaker that talks about this exact topic we
were just talking about. While don't we go
(32:09):
together. It maybe have some coffee afterwards in
in continuing the conversation just something to keep
the ball rolling because oftentimes,
you learn why as a result, people respect
you enough even more so to invest more
of your time to get to know you
better. Right? But even more so what it
illustrates still is, once again,
(32:30):
the
relationship is more important
than whether someone is right or wrong.
So good. So good. I
I want your book to be, like, required
reading for congress, you know?
Because
there used to be a boy on time.
(32:50):
I still vaguely remember when I was little,
you know, we're where we could actually have
have debates between... The political parties, you know,
and have them compromise and come up with
with legislation. So...
And and our... We're too glory, Like... I've
actually... That part of the motivation for me
too because when I was growing up, I've
seen 2 people
(33:10):
battle it out in the debate room. I've
seen 2 attorneys
go at each other's throats in the courtroom.
But the odd thing is
no 1 really talks about what happened oftentimes
after the case was done.
Those same 2 attorneys often and saw
outside the courtroom, they did shake hands. Yeah.
More times than night. And more times than
(33:32):
not. I saw them... Having a burger together,
getting the drink after work, going to their,
you know, friend's daughter's soccer game or getting
holiday cards,
So it was, like, what? Like, you disagree
with each other, you were at each other's
throats and you still wanted to hang out
together. Was like, yeah. What I did that...
That's that's part of work,
(33:53):
but there can be something beyond work and
beyond this agreement that you can still have
a relationship with and that was, like, a
huge,
like, light bulb moment for me. And I
think that we don't have enough examples of
that in our society nowadays,
that, unfortunately people are not thinking that's possible.
And that's why this book in this framework
(34:14):
I would feel is so important, to help
people understand not only is it possible,
but it's something we've been through before. We
just gotta relearn what the rules of engaged
are, to bring more of that back in
today and going forward for the next generation
to repeat as well. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Because
it comes down to... It really does come
down to respect. It's showing respect for the
(34:36):
other person
being able to respect them.
As a whole person because, you know, I'm
sure, you know, you are, you know, you
have a d degree, You know, I believe
we are all children of god. So that
but that means all of us. You know,
not not just, you know, a few of
us know all of us are. So if
we can see God in each other,
(34:58):
then we're gonna treat them better. And so,
yeah, we just need to start... And and
it starts with you know, everybody listening to
this podcast today. Everybody, you know, watching it,
just start practicing that. You don't, do do
what you can where you are.
And
and that's and that's the important thing.
(35:19):
Oh,
I, this is we got a Actual. Question
here and see what we gonna to tackle
this real quick. Just someone on Linkedin was
asking. What if the attack or resistance comes
across consistently,
where it just seems personal and not a
disagreement. So this is a perfect opportunity to
say, listen.
Do I wanna stay involved with this?
(35:40):
Or do I wanna opt out? Mh. You
know, just as much as you are, you
know, able to engage with it And this
is part of the thing for me too
because you know, sometimes you get so pressured
that you wanna stay in a relationship or,
you know, because it's like, like, that's my
that's my my my mother. That's my sister.
That's my friend. That's my spouse. That... That's
my colleague. So you feel like you have
to just
(36:01):
endure it. You just have to take it.
And so the part of me... That's it
goes too full. 1 is, you know, is
this an opportunity to help educate people with
this framework with this new approach.
To disagree respectfully. Say it's okay to disagree.
Let's just go about things that are at
are way than before. Right? So that person
can opt in for that and go that
(36:23):
journey with you and respect you for doing
that, or on the flip side, if they
say, m, I still wanna call you outside
of your name. I still wanna bad mouth
you I still wanna do these things because
I'm just so angry. Once again, having enough
respect for yourself. This is... Like, comes to,
like, self respect self loves without self advocacy.
And say, listen,
I
respect you,
(36:44):
I care about you. I also respecting care
about me.
And I love myself enough to know that
I don't wanna put myself in a situation
or in an environment
where I'm am gonna be consistently attacked. Or
hate it or criticized for having a different
point of view from yours.
And because of that, we have 2 options
(37:04):
here either we do better and continue to
engage
or
would go about different ways because I respect
myself enough to listen. I don't I don't
wanna do this to myself. I don't want
it to be witness to this,
and maybe my absence. They may motivate you
to think about doing something different so that
we can beat together it again. Yeah. Absolutely.
(37:27):
Yeah. Because it... You really do need to
take care of yourself first. And and if
it is... If it is getting to be
too personal, then you have every right to
be able to take care of yourself and
say, I'm withdrawing from this situation. So I
appreciate you sharing that.
I know this has been wonderful conversation. And
we could probably keep going for for a
(37:47):
while, but I do wanna to respect. Your
time as well as our audience. So I
wanna ask you to,
if someone wants to be able to get
your book, or to be able to contact
you? What's the best place for people to
do that? Yeah. So the best place to
to get my book disagree without interest respect.
Out to respectfully debate with those who think,
believe and vote differently from you.
(38:09):
It's on the Amazon. So you can look
it up by that title
I also understand it's a pretty long title
subtitle. So if that's the case, you can
look up disagree without this respect or look
up my name, Philip black.
PHILIPBLACKETT.
You'll see that book along with some other
books I've written,
or you can also you know, contact me
(38:31):
on my website at philip black dot com
or connect with me on Facebook, linkedin, Twitter
Instagram,
just look up my name Philip Black.
Alright. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for
being here today, and I know... Our audience
got a lot of value out of it
today. I received a lot of value out
of it, and I'm glad we didn't have
(38:51):
to... We didn't have to disagree today. So
But who knows if if we chat again
later, you know, we may and but that's
okay. That is okay. We out.
Absolutely
Oh, so thank you so much for being.
Or did I really appreciate it.
Absolutely. Thank you so much for the opportunity,
Gloria. I appreciate our conversation.
And I do wanna thank all of you
(39:13):
as well for for watching and for
listening, and I hope that you will, join
us again, and
next week. And if you weren't subscribed to
the podcast yet, make sure that you
are subscribed on your favorite podcast platform,
And
let's see. I think that's probably gonna do
it. Yeah. That's gonna do it for me
for this time. So until
(39:34):
next week. I encourage you to go out
and live fully, love deeply and engage authentically.
Did you know that a majority... Of entrepreneurs
tend to discount the importance of their work.
And a good number feel their success is
simply due to luck.
If I know from personal experience that self
(39:54):
doubt can keep you from having the kind
of life and business you desire.
That's why I created a free guide called
uniquely you. How to move from self doubt
to self love, in 4 simple stuff
To claim your free guide, go to l,
love engage dot gift.
That's live lu engage dot GIFT.
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