Live Talk Ep. 49: Balancing Life and Ministry with Josh Anders

This week on Live Talk, Dwayne speaks with Josh Anders, Worship Pastor at The Pointe Church in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Josh shares his ministry journey and leadership principles he has learned along the way. Josh shares about his family, and how to balance the high demands of ministry and family life.

The post Live Talk Ep. 49: Balancing Life and Ministry with Josh Anders first appeared on NLW International.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is live talk with Dwayne Moore.
We're talking worship on a global scale.
Hey, everybody. Welcome to livetalk. I'm Dwayne Moore. Um,
maybe a little bit more ofa sedated version of me. Uh,
I'm still trying to get back inthe swing of things after a, um,

(00:22):
a wonderful but long, uh,and frankly tiring, uh,
trip to Africa. Uh,
I've been there six weeksjust shy of six weeks and, um,
got back this weekendand so had a few days to
recoup. And I'm about I'm aboutback to normal, I think, but, um,

(00:42):
I mean it's eight hours ahead there.
So my body right now tellsme it's about time to, uh,
be shutting it down for the night. Well,
I'm recording this in midafternoonwhere I live in Alabama,
but in Kenya where I wasjust four days ago, uh,
it is time to go to bed.
And so my body stillis a bit confused. Um,

(01:03):
but we're glad you've joined us forlive talk wherever you may be. Uh,
we have people that watch as far awayas Pakistan and other parts of Asia, uh,
via king television. So welcome.
We also have people that are listeningby podcast in different parts of the
world. Thank God for technologythat allows us this to happen.
We have people that are watching, uh,

(01:24):
on YouTube or perhaps on Facebook live.
And you may be a pastor or worshipleader. You may be a, a Christian.
You may not be a Christian. You maybe someone who doesn't claim to,
to know Jesus. You maynot know him personally,
but you're interested in peoplelike me that talk about Christianity
and talk about worship. And that's reallywhat we do on this, on this podcast,

(01:48):
on this live talk show, we,we bring you guests that,
uh, are leaders in the church oftenwill do that, or they, they are authors.
Um,
they may be businesspeople who believe in Jesus
Christ, follow him with their lives,
but they also have leadership principlesthat anyone can apply and learn

(02:10):
from.
So wherever you are in thespectrum of that welcome,
please know that you are very welcomeand we are glad that you joined us today.
We have a special guest withus named Josh ands. Josh, uh,
is a great friend. He's been a friendfor, uh, several years now. Uh, uh,
I remember how his wife,

(02:32):
Deanna actually reached out to me viaemail while I was a worship pastor in
Louisville, Kentucky. And, uh,she emailed me a few times,
uh, just asking, is there any way that we,
that we can get together that,that I could actually, uh,
Skype in or zoom in asthe case may be, and,
and talk to the Bible studygroup at their church that was

(02:56):
using my book, pure praise. Andso they wanted the, you know,
the guy that wrote it to, to say afew words to, to their, their class,
which I was, was glad to do. If I havethe time, I, I love those opportunities.
And I do those often.
I did not know from that simple gesture,
both from her and, andback back to them in,

(03:19):
in coming into their class, I did notknow the friendship. It would lead to,
uh, as well as the greatpartnership of ministry. Uh,
as you will hear in this interview, um,
we've been able to work togetherfor several occasions, uh,
doing several different, uh,
activities and conferences togetherand work together. And so, uh,

(03:39):
I'm excited to bring you Josh ands as a,
as a someone to learn fromand leadership, uh, learn
not only leading in his home, um, inhis church, but also in his home, uh,
and the humility he has, although he isa very, very strong, talented leader.
Um, he has a great dependence onthe Lord. So you'll see all that.

(04:03):
You'll hear that in a few momentsbefore we get to Josh today,
I want to tell you alittle about the Africa
trip. If you'll indulge me to dothat for a few moments. So we'll be,
we'll be back in a fewmoments with more live talk.
And I'm going to take a few minutesto talk about Africa and what all God
did there, and then we'll getto Josh's interview today.

(04:26):
We'll be right back withmore live talk. Thanks.
You're listening to live.
Talk with Dwayne Moore internationalconversations on worship.
Hey, everybody, we are back with livetalk, and I'm doing more. I as promised.
I wanna tell you about Africa. I wannatell you about our, our tour there. Um,

(04:49):
it was incredible. And, and, and I, Igotta tell you that I'm still, uh, yes,
I'm tired physically, but oh, my, myspirit is soaring from how God, uh,
used next level worship andto, to make connections there,
uh, brought us together withsome key key leaders, um,
got to pour into some wonderful, uh,Christians and, and believers in,

(05:13):
in the Lord,
and also to share our faith with thosethat didn't know the Lord we got to, um,
teach children the gospel teach. 'emabout worship out in the villages in,
in Africa. Hey, there'sa lot I could tell you,
but I think if we let you see it,it would be better. So here is, uh,
here is a quick overview in,
in pictures of what we justexperienced in Africa, watch this

(06:37):
So you can see why I am beaming.
I am so grateful forall of our donors. Um,
many people pitched in to helpsupport that effort that was
financially. Honestly,
it cost a lot of money to travelthat many places and do that much
ministry packed that much in. And so, um,

(06:59):
we spent around $60,000, uh, uh,
which was, you know, a lot ofmoney for our small organization.
It'd be a lot of money, Iguess, for anyone, anybody. Um,
but you can't put a, a dollarfigure on a soul, you know, and we,
we saw many and we, we're only notsaying a number cause they're children.

(07:20):
We don't wanna, we wanna, we don'twanna say exact numbers. Although I,
I have an exact number in my mind,pretty close to an exact number.
I'm not gonna say it. Uh,
I'm just gonna say that manychildren came to know Christ.
We don't know a child's heart.There could have been more,
may have been a few lessthan I'm aware of, but, uh,
we know that many stepped forward sayingthey wanted to know Jesus as their

(07:42):
savior and Lord. Wow. And, um,
hats off to first Baptistchurch of Lexington, Tennessee,
to all of Baptist church in Pennsylvania.I'm in Pennsylvania. I don't know.
I said that Pensacola, Florida, uh, toChris Mellon, who is in Pennsylvania and,
uh, Travis Bly and, uh, up inSyracuse, New York and, um,

(08:04):
just incredible team of peoplethat came together from,
from different parts of the, of thecountry and the world, frankly. Uh,
I thank God for Mike suey,uh, who came from Ohio. Um,
thank God for, uh, Joyce swingerwho came from Virginia. And I,
I'm sure I'm gonna leasing people outof our start naming and all these,
but these are all people fromthat are part of our team,

(08:26):
our community at next step worship. Andthey came together, uh, to help us, um,
in this six week adventure now, notall of 'em came for that whole time.
We brought in a teamfor Zambia, for example,
and then they went back home andthen if we had another team come in,
so I would, what I would do,I would go to one place and,
and work with one team. And then I wouldfly down to another country and meet,

(08:48):
meet up with another team, HenryPretorius, for example, who is, uh,
on our team in South Africaand Mitchell Lawrence and
his wife cattle and, and,
and this phenomenal team got usbuilding around next level worship in
South Africa, got to do that, gotto go see what God's doing, uh,
on, on the, the Western Cape, uh,

(09:10):
in Cape town and never been therebefore. So got to experience that.
And then we flew from there to, um, uh,
Zimbabwe and in Zimbabwe, we, uh,
got to meet with ourteam. We have a, a, a, a,
a strong team there next upworship team, uh, led by, uh,
our director there, Linda Shia. And,uh, we love her and her husband,

(09:35):
John, and got spending timewith them and, and, and,
and just pour into our teamthere. But also we got to do, uh,
some incredible conferencesthat were packed out. In fact,
they were standing outside. Uh, it was so,
so overwhelmingly successfuland that's thanks and great part
to our team there that did a, didthe groundwork before we arrived.

(09:57):
And Donald katala ourAfrica director. And I, uh,
went to Zimbabwe together and got to enjoythat time. And then we flew to Kenya.
And in Kenya,
we had another us team that joinedus as well as from other countries,
Ethiopia and other places. And, uh,we had, um, another awesome day,
uh, um, awesome week.
It began with an awesome day as we gotto meet up with each other. And, and,

(10:19):
and, and, and it's alwaysgood to see our team.
And then it led to this phenomenal,phenomenal ministry together. Once again,
pouring into worship leaders and pastorsthat came from many parts of Kenya and
other countries, and also going outwith, with the worship Bible school team,
as you saw in the video, we showedyou and, and going into villages,

(10:40):
teaching children about worshipin the gospel and, and many,
I think 99% of the childrenthat they worked with there,
our team that came from theUnited States worked with
in Kenya, were Muslim children,Muslim children. And, uh,
they were able to go into theseMuslim Muslim villages and share Jesus

(11:02):
Christ with them. And knowingthat those PA those children,
the songs they learned the Bibleversus they learned the truths.
They learned about Jesus Christ. Theywould take back to their families.
This is the ministry of next step worship.
Then I'm so grateful to be a part ofit. I never wanna take it for granted.
God meets our needs. He's he keepsproviding for us financially. I, I mean,

(11:24):
it takes a lot of money to do whatwe're doing, but God always provides.
He's just so incredibly faithful.
One of the things we gotto do while we were there,
it was the very last thing we did whilewe were in on this long six week tour.
Um, uh, it, it happenedin Nairobi Kenya. Um,
while I was there in may back, backin may, I was in Naro in Kenya,

(11:44):
in the country of Kenya. Wewere traveling, traveling from, uh, city to city,
doing conferences, aswe often do. And, uh,
the Lord coordinated it. He did itall. We had nothing to do with it,
other than just being faithful andjust trying to walk the trail. And, uh,
some of the very places we were in, uh,
with some of the leaders in these churchesthat were hosting us in conferences.

(12:08):
I didn't know it. I no did,
but they were on the board of directorsfor the evangelical Alliance of Kenya.
Again, I didn't know this, and they didn'tmention it, but I'm sitting with, uh,
the president of theBaptist convention of Kenya.
I'm doing dinner with, with,with Dr. Steven and ADA,
and he gets a phone call. Thishappened truth. He gets a phone call.

(12:31):
This is back in may. And it, and, andI'm thinking, well, he is a busy man.
He's an important man. He's got a lotgoing on. Someone needs to talk to him.
I didn't think anything about it.
I just sat there silently whilehe was speaking on the phone.
But within a minute, he handedhis cell phone to me. And he said,
this call is for you. For me,
I'm thinking who would call me via you?

(12:54):
It was the general secretary forthe evangelical Alliance of Kenya.
I didn't know that Dr.
Steven was act is actuallyon their board of directors.
And so Steven had toldthe general secretary,
his name is Nelson about us, andabout next level worship. So,
so the general secretarywanted to meet up with me and,

(13:17):
and, and have a conversation which wemet up at, at, at our hotel. My hotel,
one thing led to another, and we,you know, really saw eye eye to eye.
And he said, this is what we've beenpraying for in this country, our country,
our churches need to learn about worship.
They need to learn about prayer andwhat you're offering could help us.
I was okay.
So he invited us to do a conferencewhen we came back in August,

(13:40):
which we did. So that's why we stayed a,
a couple of days longer than we would'venormally stayed a few days longer.
And we went over back to Nairobi and wedid a conference and we did a conference
with, um, it wasn't a large room.I mean the only 20 people there,
but, but y'all, it was the moversand shakers, so to speak, it, it,

(14:01):
it was a room full of top key leaders
among the evangelicalAlliance of Kenya. And,
uh, we just shared our heart,shared some, um, burden, shared, uh,
our message about prayer and aboutworship Donald Catal. And I, uh,
both spoken at the end of thatmeeting just after a few hours time,

(14:23):
one gentleman stood up,turned out. I didn't know it,
but later I found out that he he'son the board of directors for E AKs.
It's called, uh, and, uh,
he stood up and he said to everybody, hesaid, I, I believe that God is in this.
We, if for one wanna partner withthis ministry next up worship.
And so they made it official.

(14:45):
They gave us an official invitationto come and partner with the
evangelical Alliance of Kenya to reachout into their churches. And, and,
and y'all, they've got40,000 churches that,
that are part of this organization acrossthe country of Kenya and every county
of Kenya. They've got churches.
And they want us to go in and teach thesepastors and these leaders about true

(15:07):
worship, about a biblicalprayer. And I'm, ,
I'm so humble because I I'mlearning myself. ,
there's so much I need to learn, you know,
but we're learning together inGod's word. He's who teaches us,
pull us, walk his trail, just notelling what God will do. Amen.
So that's what I wanna share with you,
and thank you for your prayers and thankyou for your support. Many of you, uh,

(15:30):
give financially you, you pray for us.
You're a part of ourprayer partners list. Uh,
and so you receive a monthlyprayer partners letter from us. Thank you for that.
And if you don't, you please sign up,send us a message and, uh, just say,
Hey, we'd love to I to tell, tellus, Hey, I wanna be a prayer partner.
I wanna be a partner of next step worship.We'll get you signed up for that. Uh,

(15:52):
you can email us at office nextlevel, worship.com office, next level,
worship.com. Let us know thatyou wanna be a prayer partner.
Maybe you wanted to bea financial partner,
whether you can give a fewdollars or a hundred dollars.
We're we thank God for anything. We'regrateful for whatever you can give,
but this is the ministry of next stepworship. I wanna take a few minutes and,

(16:12):
and this updates you we're sograteful for what God's doing.
I'll be going to Bangladesh laterthis year, been invited to be a,
a keynote speaker at alarge conference there,
and just see what God's doingin Bangladesh. And, and,
and we're about to do astudent praise gathering, uh,
with students from multiple countriesand multiple states and university
students. Um, it's exciting. And it's, uh,

(16:36):
we're thank God for the team of peoplearound us that help all this come
together. Cuz I could not pull allthis off alone. So thank you for,
for joining us again. I, I,
I appreciate your time and pleaselet us know how we can pray for you.
Let us know how our ministry canhelp you check out our resources,
check out the things that we offer onour website at next level, worship.com.

(16:56):
So as promised,
we'll be back in a few moments andyou'll hear from my dear friend,
Josh Anders,
who is the worship pastor atthe point church in Fort Wayne,
Indiana. We'll be right back.
Live talk with Dwayne Moore,
biblical worship perspective.

(17:23):
Hey everybody, welcomeback to live talk. And uh,
today is pretty special dayfor me. One of my dear friends,
Josh Anders is here. Hi Josh.
What's up Dwayne? .
How are you doing.
Man? In, in live talk nation? .
No,

(17:43):
we called it live talk becauseit originally supposed to really truly been live.
But every time we tried it live,it something went wrong. You know,
we also broadcast in other nationsand even in Pakistan and no one ever,
we never could coordinate all that too.Well. So now it's prerecorded live.
Does that really count? I don't know.
I mean, yeah, it.
Sort is, right.

(18:03):
It, it, it is live as weare doing it. So it's.
Live right now and this is notscripted now. Right? Not scripted.
I know listening to us,
you may feel like it's very formaland we're reading every thing, but no,
it's totally off the cuff.
oh, I've learned a lot aboutthis cuz uh, we recently started a,
we recently started a podcast hereand uh, no. Okay. Yeah. I'm not,

(18:23):
I'm not in the podcast, but my wife,
our youth pastor and our,one of our teaching pastors are a part of it and it's,
it's been really fun. I'velearned a lot about podcasting,
so I appreciate what you.
Do. Well, you do a good job. I,I, I saw part of one. I've been,
I've been gone most of that time.You've been doing that, but I did.
I talked a little bit and it lookedlike you guys have taken it really
seriously. You, you, you did somehomework before you started looks good.

(18:47):
we're we're just trying toget up there. Like you D that's all.
Oh, well.
That.
That would not be difficult too.
I'm think I thank God for Barry behindthe scenes. Uh, putting it all together.
Cuz if I didn't have somebody likethat, I wouldn't be able to do this,
but you absolutely. You need somebodyworking behind the scenes to.
Absolutely pull.
Everything together. And he, he doesanything from reach out, you know,

(19:10):
he connected with you andscheduled it. And, and, and,
and I don't think in this case,
because I was gone the wholetime I've been in Africa.
That's another wholestory. But, uh, anyway, uh,
I don't think we evercame up with a topic,
but typically with people we don'tknow as well as you we'll, you know,
Barry will figure out thetopic in advance. Yeah. He said, what about Josh? Ah,
Josh and I know eachother, we can just shoot.

(19:31):
We can just shoot from the hip and it'll.
Be breeze. It'll.
Be I sort to say, it'll begreat. That remains to be seen,
but I believe at least.Oh, it'll be very good.
So we're praying for great. Good.
I hear that.
But uh, yeah, man. Well, thanks forgiving us some time. Uh, it, yeah.
You.
Got a lot going on. Uh, you weretelling me before recording started,
this is probably one of the busiestweeks of a busy life for you,

(19:55):
but yet.
It's yeah, it's pretty busy. A lot.A lot is converging at the same time.
Yeah. This week. And uh, well,I mean, re recently this year,
things have been busier than normal forme and our ministry and uh, but yeah,
personally and professionally, thisis, it's a, it's a tough week. I, I,
um,

(20:16):
started teaching on a rotationat our church this year
and there were events that led into that,which we, we can get into if you want.
But I started teaching on a rotation, um,
teaching wasn't somethingI'd done a lot. In fact,
probably the most formal teaching Istarted doing was with next level worship.

(20:38):
Yeah. So you did, you've done someteaching with us is, was wonderful, but.
Yeah, , I've,
I've always felt the most inadequateabout anything I do when it comes to just
speaking with a purpose. Cause yeah,I can speak off the cuff. Yeah.
I can fill a lot of time, butspeaking with a purpose and,
and making sure that there's relevantapplication is something that's okay.

(21:01):
That's a newer, like to be in amore formal format for me. Yeah.
Um, it's very differentthan me leading worship and,
and God laying something in my heart inthe moment and just sharing it between a
worship song. Like it's, it.
Is very different. Yes. I know that.
And I, you know, I've learned alot from you and others and, and,
and my former pastor and justyep. Just learned a lot. And so,

(21:23):
um, this is one of those weeks where, uh,
I'm preparing a message and uh,we're in the book of mark right now.
And so I get the privilege of markchapter 15, which is the crucifixion.
And, um, and so I almost feellike they, they gave me the hard,
hard ones on purpose before this,I spoke on the, the fig tree.

(21:45):
And then before the, yeah.And before that was the, uh,
when Jesus sent the demons in the pig.
So it's almost like if we have somethingthat's really difficult to explain and
talk about, we're gonna giveit to Josh. And so, uh, no,
it's just the way it fell. But, uh, soyeah, this week I'm preparing for that.
So we don't, I don't actuallydeliver the message this Sunday.

(22:05):
What we do here at the point iswe record our broadcast service.
It's kinda like we're doingnow. Yeah. Yeah. Just like this,
this podcast right here, it'ssimulated live, right? Like it's live,
it's unedited and then you put it out.Well, for us, we record our worship.
We record our messages. Mm-hmm in advance. Um, and then,
so whatever we record this weekwill be, and this is the week, uh,

(22:29):
coming into the September 11th, um,
will actually be the onlineservice for the 18th.
So I record it this week and then Ideliver it live a week from Sunday.
Okay.
Does that make sense at all? So.
No, really. I'm trying tounderstand it cuz I, you know, uh,
you've explained this to me before,but so the first people to, to get,

(22:50):
to hear it and see itare who online or church.
It's it's simultaneous. So.
It happens same time. Okay.
Right. I'll record it tomorrow. Andthen with the worship and all that,
they do all the post editing andmixing and all that stuff. Yeah. Uh,
put it all together and then it willbroadcast a week from this Sunday,
which is actually when I deliver it live.

(23:13):
Okay. If that makes sense. Well,that makes a lot of sense, actually.
That makes lot. Yeah. Like.
So it actually, it actually getsput out at the same time. It's just,
I've done the work wayin advance. Oh, okay.
Well that, that's a discipline.Isn't it. To do it in advance.
What a concept I'm such a procrastinator.You know, that, that sounds scary,
but it's good if you get it in.
No, I am too Dwayne. And lemme tellyou it's been, it's been great.

(23:37):
The process has been great. Cause.
It's a good discipline.
Yeah. I can prepare the message.I can record it. And then I,
I have have like a week and a halffor it to kind of simmer in my heart.
And like usually by the time it gets tome in person it's morphed and evolved
even more and has takenon like a, a new life.

(23:57):
So it's the same, but different.
. I do understand that. Andum, I say I am a procrastinator. I,
I, I actually reject that in Jesus name.
I used to be but youdon't play me. I'm not gonna,
I'm not gonna own thatidentity anymore. Uh,
I have actually become much moreproactive in thinking ahead,
thank God by his grace. But, butI know what you're saying. Um,

(24:20):
when you let it simmer, um,
things can gel in a way that's and boy,by the time it comes out of you, it's,
it feels very fresh, but alsowell prepared, you know? So yeah.
Kinda an so yeah. So, soI've got, I've got that.
My, um, it just so happensthat my music director, um,
I've given him the week off andit just happens to be this week,

(24:42):
which means I'm stepping infor him at the same time.
On.
You. Yeah. And then, and then, so onsome personal notes, I've just my,
my mom who's, her health has been failingshe's she's in the hospital right now.
So it's just a lot ofthings. And one of our,
my fellow pastors was in my officeearlier and he just said, you know,
it never fails that when the hardest weekscome it's like everything's coming at

(25:04):
you at once. So yeah. So.
Well, and that, even before we startedthe recording, you know, I, I said,
do you do, do we need to wait tilla different time? Cause you know,
you told me your moms in thehospital, you said, Deanna,
your wife is they're with her. Uheverything's okay for the moment. But uh,
but you know, things couldchange, but, but you know,

(25:24):
thank you again for giving us the time.But what I appreciate about you is you,
you, you keep your commitments, you,
you you've always been that way and youjust follow through really well. And um,
I think what you've done there at thechurch, what God has done through you and,
and through Deanna and your family,uh, is amazing. And so, you know,
wanna say that to you and,and, and tell you that today,

(25:47):
I was hoping part of whatwe could talk about is,
is your journey there at the point mm-hmm, uh, and, um, you know,
I think people would love to hear that.It's an interesting story to me. Uh,
I remember when you,
when we first got to know each other andyou were telling me on the phone, then,
uh, I, I remember I was standingin a coffee shop in Jeffersonville,
Indiana when I was talking to youfor the first real conversation.

(26:08):
Mm-hmm and I was amazed at, at,
at just how God brought you to thatchurch. You explained that to me some,
and now hearing how it's come tobe now that you're even speaking,
you're getting, getting out opportunities.It's all clearly to me, man,
standing from the outside, looking in,I know you're busy, you're just kind of,
kind of stay afloat rightnow. But I think it's,

(26:29):
I just see it's God's hand on youis what, I just wanna say that.
So would you mind unpackingsome of that for us? Uh,
I just kind of put you on the spot here,but yeah, I'd love to hear your story.
Well, it's interesting aboutyou asking that, is that,
that like my journey with next liveof worship began before the point,
like I was using yourresources at my last church,

(26:52):
our choir, you know, I, I would buy,uh, the book, pure praise, pure praise,
and the first edition and I would,I was back in the first edition it,
but we would use it to just equipour team and train them. And so I, I,
I knew you from a,
from an author standpoint and didn'treally have that relationship, but yeah.

(27:13):
So at that last church,which was in Tennessee, okay.
Knoxville, wasn't it around Knoxville.
Knoxville, Tennessee. And, uh,
it was just came a timefor a change. You know,
there was a change that was neededand, um, we were praying, you know,
for the next steps. And, um, youknow, as often as this happens,

(27:35):
you know, it wasn't always in mytiming, but it was in God's timing. And,
um,
one of my best friendswho I went to college with actually had the privilege of,
we got, we actually, uh, wasable to lead him to the Lord, uh,
in college.
His name was Joe and we've juststayed best friends ever since.

(27:56):
And, um, and so we,
he moved to Fort Wayne after hegraduated. And then I stayed,
I guess at the time in Tennessee.
And there was a time wherehe said, Hey, listen,
I I'd come to visit him. I'd been tohis church, everything like that. And,
uh, didn't think anything of it. And thenthere came a time where he said, Hey,

(28:19):
he said our worship pastorsmoving, he's resigning,
you should put in your resume. And Iwas just like, in my mind, I'm thinking,
there's no way that they'll thinkI'm a fit for this church. I,
I just didn't believe that in myself.And, and he said, well, you know,
they need an interim.
So even if you just came forlike a certain amount of time,

(28:39):
and of course I, at the time I had,uh, a wife and three kids, and,
but there was something in this momentin this conversation that God just was
speaking in my heart saying, pursuethis as wild and as crazy. And as it,
as much as it didn't make sense to likemove my entire family to Indiana for a
short term commitment, like Iknew without a shot out a doubt,

(29:03):
I was supposed to do it. Like therewas no. Yeah. It was just like,
it was,
I'm sure it was a combination of whatwas going on in our lives at the moment
verse. And also knowing that God was,
was tearing away the nest and that wewere supposed to move on and praying for
those opportunities. And,um, so I interviewed, uh,

(29:23):
I was able to secure the,the interim position I came.
They were very honest and very upfrontwith me at first and said, you know,
this doesn't mean that you'regoing to be the permanent person.
We're doing a nationwide search. We gota search firm. So, you know, please,
please, we just wanna be very clearthat we're not promising that, you know,
you're welcome to throw your hat in herhand. I was like, I was like, you know,

(29:44):
I'd gotten to know the pastor, uh,his name was Ray over the phone.
And I knew from our conversationsthat he was the type of leader
that I'd been longing tobe on that. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
we aligned in a lot of different ways,
the church aligned with what I waslooking for in a church. And, um,

(30:05):
and so I just trust the Lordand, and my thought was,
I didn't think I didn't have theconfidence that I'd be the person either.
And in my mind, Dwayne,I was praying, you know,
if, if we do go for six months andthen we have to find another place,
it'll be worth it because Ibelieve I'll learn so much.

(30:25):
That.
Leadership that I know it's crazy.
That's amazing to me, .
It doesn't make sense. Well.
And, and which I, I want to say,
this is why I wanna interject about nowin the conversation on the phone while I
was standing in Jefferson, Indiana,I was like, who is this guy?
Because what I heard you say,and I hear you say again, yeah.
I didn't know if you would get tostay. You just went, you uprooted,

(30:48):
not from across the city across,
but across several states.
States. Yeah.
And you uprooted your family, not evenknowing if you'd be, be there long.
I think that's amazing, bro.
That that's yeah, yeah.
That's got.
It. It is. It had to be. And thefact that my wife was on board,
she had a piece about it. That was a huge,

(31:09):
huge green flag for me.Right. And so we came,
we moved our three children theday after Christmas, 2013. Um,
I started my role here. Ilearned and grew a whole lot.
Um, there was just so many things that,
that were expected and,

(31:29):
and just a level of professionalismand also ministry and
well, the, the search process wasstill ongoing while I was here.
so that could be alittle awkward. Right. You know,
you're serving and then mywife is starting to really love it here. She's like,
oh no, you know, I don't wannamove. And I'm thinking, okay,
let's keep our expectationsreal, you know.

(31:52):
Have choice might have tomove. Right. That's word that,
imagine everyone listening tothis conversation right now,
imagine being in this position. Wow.
Yeah. It's wild. And,
and the great thing is thatleadership was so transparent with me.
They would tell me now, listen, we,here's where we are in the process.
We've narrowed it down to these people.We're gonna start bringing them in.

(32:13):
You know, we're willing to likesend you and Deanna, you know,
Chicago is just a few hours.We'll send you for a weekend away.
So it's not awkward. You're not herewhile they're campaigning, you know?
And so it was,
they were just very transparent and timewent on and they never brought anyone
in. They talked about it, but no oneever came in and it was just like,

(32:34):
it was weird. And it gone downto the last couple people.
And these people are like a coupleof them. I know. And they're well,
well known. I mean, uh,
worship pastors are churches ofthousands and thousands of thousands.
And I was just like, you know,I'm really happy for, for,
who's gonna come in here.
And I remember one day I was sittingacross from my pastor and he said, Josh,

(32:55):
he said, we feel likewe've come to a decision.
And I just wanted to have aconversation with you and let you know.
And of course I'm like, I'm, I'm preparingmyself, you know, I'm like, okay,
okay. You know, be humble. Like,like what, God's got a plan.
And he said, he said, you know,
when we went out and we had thesearch firm looking for someone,

(33:16):
they brought us everythingwe were looking for.
But what we didn't realizewas the target moved.
And you were the reason for that,
because we didn't realize that weweren't looking for a, a worship leader,
uh, someone out front singing,
but we were what we needed a pastorand you brought that and we would love,
oh my goodness. Yeah. And he wouldlike, he would like, we, we, we,

(33:38):
we would love for you tostay. Wow. And I was just,
I remember just immediately juststarted crying. I was like, there's,
this is not happening. This is not.Yeah. And to say that, you know, just,
and not about me, but it was just,
I just was pouring out what God waspouring into me, pouring what he learned.
Well,
I had learned from him and through othersand through pure praise about worship

(33:58):
and,
and how to lead people and equip peopleand care for your team and all these
things in your church.And, and so, you know,
we put down roots and it's been nineyears almost, and we're still here.
So yeah.
A story.
And still growing by the way. Um.
Well you are, I mean, learningyou'll being stretched.

(34:21):
Oh, my word is.
Right. He was a wonderful pastor. And,you know, he, he felt led to, to, to,
to not retire. Exactly. I know.
He is. Yeah, no, he retired. Yeah. He.
Retired. I don't, if it'sofficial or not, I didn't know,
but I wouldn't put words in anyone'smouth, but anyway, he's not,
there is the point, a very healthysituation. I mean, it's a great church.
It's really, yeah. Multigrowing, uh, congregation.

(34:43):
Yeah. Very diverse. We, youknow, it wasn't always that way,
but we started praying intentionallyfor diversity. We were like, you know,
does our church reflect ourcommunity? Yeah. And if it doesn't,
then we're missing something. We,if we're gonna reach our community,
we must reflect our community. And so,
and so we started praying for diversitythat we would have our eyes open in that

(35:05):
we would be a welcoming placefor all people. And, you know,
no matter what they look like, right.
And man did God bless those prayers.
And we've just become a verydiverse church, uh, age wise,
race wise, you know,socioeconomically, you know, we,
it's just, it's incredible.
And just to see how God's brought itall together is amazing. And yeah.

(35:27):
You know, our pastor retiredand it was, it was a very, uh,
you know, I was conflicted at the timebecause he is such, has been such a,
a great leader and pastor to me,but I had to realize that, you know,
at some point we all move on tothe next thing. Right. ,
we're all interims in a sense,
someone came before us and someonewill come after us. So it's like, yeah.

(35:50):
And so I just had to realizethat that time was now. And, uh,
so it took me a while to cometo terms, but he did. And,
and that's what led me to being askedto be on the teaching team because we're
in an interim process right now. And, uh,
so four of us are rotating speaking everyweek while we're searching for a new
lead pastor.

(36:10):
Okay.
Now that's what I wanted to dig into alittle bit more now that you led us up to
the present day.
Yeah. Four.
Of you are rotating.Is that now in my mind,
my I'm thinking of that oncea month or is it, or is it,
is it nice and tidy like that or.
Yeah, so there's four of us. And so itaverages like once a month, you know,

(36:32):
some may, depending on our schedulesand people's availability, you know,
some may do more than once a month.Um, it's not necessarily like a, okay,
it's.
Not set stone, but that's generally.
Yeah. It's not like a clockwiserotation where here's Caleb, here's Ty,
here's Josh. Okay. It's like, we lookedat a teaching calendar and we said,
when, when are we ableto fill, fill these?

(36:53):
And we just went through the rest of theyear and just filled those spots. And.
Can I ask a very practicalquestion for a, a leader in,
in if they were planning likethis, uh, some churches, um,
I've noticed avoid announcing whowill be that next preacher mm-hmm
they I'm sure they havereasons for that. What do you guys do?
Do you, do you let your folks know? Ordo they just kind of come in and see who,

(37:16):
who who's there preaching in that.
Day? Yeah, our,
we don't really projectwho's coming up next. Okay.
Like who's teaching next.If that's what you mean. I.
I, I do mean that, is it predictable?That's what I'm meant. So.
There, there, there is a hack ifyou're savvy, uh . We, we,
uh, we post, uh,

(37:37):
an announcement for our broadcastservice towards the end of the week.
And if you pay attention to that, you'llsee who's speaking that week. But,
but you know, apart from that, we're notlike, yeah. In the me, in the service,
we're not like, and next week is Josh,you know, it's not like that. Okay.
Well, you can see why Imight be asking. I mean,
I I've read and I've heard I'venever been in this situation,

(37:58):
but I've heard that some do that becausethey don't want people to come only for
certain speakers. That's true. I don'teven know if that would really happen.
Yeah. It.
Happens. I've heard that. I've heardthat that's a, a reason people,
some churches don't announce it.
Oh, no. I guarantee that happens.I, I mean, it was natural when,
when Ray was here and hewould speak, you know,

(38:18):
42 Sundays a year,whenever he wasn't here,
you would see a dip, youknow, I mean saw, but yes.
Definitely. That's obvi you know, it'sdefinitely that way with the main pastor,
but now that you've got four and I justwondered, do you see that same? Yeah.
No, it's, uh, not really. It'sbeen pretty steady. Okay. In fact,
interestingly enough, we've beengrowing through this process.

(38:41):
Okay. Church.
Our church is growing.
It's wild. Wow. That,that is, um, well, again,
I think that speaks to the healthof the church already. And the,
and the vision was bigger than a person.
And I don't know how youguys pull that off. I mean,
humanly speaking that seemsvery difficult to pull.
Off. It is very difficultbecause I think the larger church

(39:04):
becomes the more the focus is put onwho the pastor is. Mm-hmm .
And, um, I think one thing thisprocess has taught me was Ray
was always the person who didn'twant to be out front, you know, um,
he would do what he needed todo, but as far as just like,
he never wanted to bethe face of the church.

(39:25):
And so he equipped our team tobe very strong. In fact, yeah.
That's one of the reasonswhy he said he was like,
I felt good about thetiming because I looked,
he went to Africa for a couple weeks toKenya earlier this year and when he came
back and he was just like, man,this, everything is just like,
if I hadn't left and it was agood sign for him. Yes. That's.
A good sign. Yeah.

(39:46):
It was a good sign forhim that, that, you know,
the team is strong enough to move on.And, and I don't know, Dwayne, I it's,
it's been caught, I don't want togo down a rabbit trail, but like,
you know, we're hearing a lot from likethese celebrity pastors of just things
happening and, you know, unfortunatelywe're all human, but just,

(40:07):
it just seems like I'm hearing somethingnew every day of someone well known
someone I respected andit almost makes me think,
do we elevate our pastors too much?
You.
Know? Well, I, I, I mean,possibly so I mean, certainly I,
that's always a possibility.I think we also, uh,
allow them to be isolated too much.

(40:28):
Yes. Um.
So elevate and isolate, I thinkwe're not careful. And, and,
and what I mean by that is they, they, uh,
for whatever reason beganto lack accountability.
And I think anytime we do any ofus, that can be very dangerous.
Yeah. Yep. Very dangerous.
But it's definitely put into perspectivethe strength of having multiple people,

(40:50):
because, you know, even when some peoplefound out about the news, they were,
you know, of him leaving. They werejust so upset because they, they had,
in this mind, their picture wasthe point equal our pastor and it,
the point doesn't equal our Pit equals all of us. And, um,
and so we're seeingthat kind of, you know,

(41:11):
inadvertently come to fruition duringthis transition time where it is
about God and, and, and he,it is all of us together.
And so there's a, there's a huge teammentality right now. big time,
which.
Is awesome. And so in, you know, goingforward, you said until that person,
yeah. Uh, God reveals thatperson. You find that person, um,

(41:35):
you think that's you, no one can predict,but I mean, could that be months?
Yeah. That's what we'vebeen told. We actually.
You know, since our, our rush about it,no, no, you don't need to be in a hurry.
It sounds like.
We're not, we're definitely notrushing into it. We, we, you know,
our pastor was a foundingpastor, you know,
our church actually this Sunday onthe 11th turned 17 years old. So like,

(41:57):
you know, it's an even bigger, uh,factor is that he was founding pastor,
not so, you know, we're certainly notrushing into finding a new pastor,
but we are searching and we aredoing our due diligence. In fact,
we've partnered with a searchfirm. Who's helping us, you know,
on a national scale to, to,to look outward, you know, as,

(42:18):
as, as well as inward lookingoutward and seeing, you know,
who fits the DNA of thepoint, the best, you know,
who fits the model of a leader thatwe're, we're looking for to take us,
you know, in the next 10 yearsor more. So it's like, um,
so that's what we're, we're inthe middle of the process. And we,
we keep the congregation updated.

(42:39):
Like every couple weeks we give anupdate on how the search is going, what,
what we're doing in this time,we have a search team, you know,
so that's helping the process, um,
along with the search firm. So yeah, it,
they say it could takesix to nine months in,
in this climate whereif you, I don't know,

(43:01):
maybe you got some of y'all outthere have heard this, the term,
the great resignation that's takingplace right now, where people who are,
it is just, these leadersare just resigning, left and right. Are retiring left,
and right.
They're retiring a lot of.
Yeah. Just because of the populationand like, and the demographic. And,
and so it's leaving thesegiant holes and it's just,

(43:21):
they said it could take longer because,you know, it's the same in ministry,
not just in the professional world andor in the secular world. I mean, so.
Yeah. Well, meanwhile, you, yougot a strong thing going there,
man. And, um, yeah, I love,I love hearing your stories.
And so I, I, I wanted,I wanted also, you know,

(43:42):
take a little time and tell us, you know,
how are you balancing allthis? I mean, you, you.
That's a.
Good question, great family, by theway. I mean, you have this, uh, awesome,
talented family, and thenyou've also got, now, you know,
you got this worshipministry. That's that just,
I think it rivals any of 'em really.

(44:04):
And now you're speaking and I knowthat takes hours of preparation.
So talk to us about howyou, how do you do that all?
Well, in reality, I think it'sjust the Providence of God because.
Okay.
The longer I've been somewhere,
one thing that Ray always challengedus with is like, you know, as a leader,

(44:24):
you should be putting something downand picking up something new, you know,
a lot.
And the putting down is a lotof times equipping others and
delegating and,
and helping to entrust others withthings that maybe that you don't
just have to do yourself.And then if you're,
if you're putting thingsdown in that sense,
then you should bepicking up something else,

(44:45):
constantly be learning and growing andstretching herself and going deeper.
And, and not only what you alreadydo, but you know, some new things.
And so I've always kind of beenin the habit of that and, um,
you know, kind of the way, you know,
how it is a lot of times inthe church world where you,
you kind of pick up otherresponsibilities along the way.

(45:07):
And so I picked up someadministrative duties here and, um,
and so as, as I've grown and asthe years have gone by, but, um,
but I think that that's, that foundationhas helped me to be like, okay,
it's just another picking up of something.It's another stretching of myself.
It's another growing.It's another opportunity,
but it would not have happened if

(45:31):
I hadn't been encouraged.And I hadn't been, uh,
equipping my team as well, alongthe way, for sure. You know,
the fact that I can, you know,
I can step away from the worship team, uh,
per se, uh, about twoweeks. So whenever I speak,

(45:53):
it takes me out because of everythingI have to do leading up to,
it takes me out about twoSundays from the worship team.
And so that's like half that'slike half a month. Right.
And so if it wasn't forthe strength of the,
kind of the same thingwith Ray and, and our team,
or our senior staff and pastoralstaff and, and support staff,
you know, if it wasn't forthe strength of the team,

(46:15):
there'd be no way if I hadn't havedone the due diligence that I had been
encouraged by my leadership to do earlyon by equipping leaders on my team and
growing the team and like doing all,
there's no way right now Icould have stepped into these
things that,
that God has opened up the door for andthe needs that I could step into and be

(46:37):
like, yes, I can, I can help withthat. Yeah. And it's all because,
and I, that's why I said, it's theProvidence of God, cuz God knew,
obviously he knew down the road whatwas happening. Yeah. And he knew,
he know,
he knew why it's importantto do those things first,
uh, to prepare, you know,for that, for those days. So,

(47:01):
uh, so the, the,
I couldn't do it without the team Ihad without my music director and,
and technical arts teams andthe volunteers, no way. Um,
I couldn't do it without asupportive family for sure. Yeah. Um,
and balance like I, I choose balanceand it's something that's always been

(47:24):
allowed for me to have freedomto for that life work balance.
And so I, I say no to alot of things and then,
but my family get a lot ofyeses now, so , you know,
so it brings, it bringsbalance and you know,
that's really, that's how, and just God,

(47:47):
when I step into these moments and Ifeel like I'm inadequate or I come off
from the platform giving a message andI just feel like, oh, was that good?
You know, did well, you know, just,just not feeling confident about it.
It's, it's God stretching me inthose moments and helping me to grow,
you know, and, and filling inthe, so to speak , um,

(48:10):
where he's moving in inspite of me. Right. And, um,
and so that's really, ifI had to boil it down,
that that's how it's those things, youknow, it's, that's, that's it. I mean,
okay. Without those things,it's not possible. Well.
You've said a lot there, but I'm gonnatry to pull down even more, a few,

(48:31):
few bullet points for those listeningthat I gleaned from what you just shared,
you were intentional inpouring in your team over time.
You didn't just wake up one day and go,
I'm gonna take nextweek to pouring my team.
Now you've been doing thisfor a long time and, uh,
and got honored that and preparedyou and ways for you to what you did
not even know was coming, but yet you'reready for it when it came. Uh, and,

(48:54):
and so that, that's something I saw.
I think also you have thesupport of your family.
I'm gonna draw this conclusion,although you didn't actually say it.
I think it's reasonable to say you havetheir support because you have so many
opportunities to say yes to them.
Yes.
And that balance has brought that supportfrom your family as much as they love
you. That don't mean they're gonna supportyour ministry like they do yours. Um,

(49:16):
right. You know,
it's not a guarantee that they're gonnaautomatically just love everything that
we're doing as ministers. We've gottalearn to say yes to our family life.
I love that. I drew thatfrom what you just said.
Mm-hmm.
um, and althoughyour humility, I mean,
your humility just comesout of, out in you, man. Um,
those of you who haven't heard Josh lead,he's incredible. He could be the guy,

(49:37):
but he chooses somethingdifferent. He's he, you know,
that's what I've alwaysappreciated about you.
You certainly are very strongout front, but you, uh,
have prioritized showsit to prioritize being a,
a coach and a pastor to yourpeople. Yeah. And a, and a,
and someone who pours into them, uh,even if that means stepping aside some,

(50:00):
so those are things I wanted to gleanfrom what you just said to point out to
people.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're right. And,
and it's not that I haven't seen myfair share struggles. I have. Sure. Um,
and those, and I've been through momentswhere I wanted to be done, you know,
I've, I was just readyto do anything else. Uh,
so for those out there who may be goingthrough that season where you're just

(50:23):
feel defeated, youfeel like there's no hope, um,
just know that there is,
and that just keep be faithful is whatI gotta say. Just be faithful, you know,
uh, because God definitelycame through, uh,
for me and I know he'll do it foryou. I know he'll do it for all of us.
So it's just, it doesn'tcome without its trials,

(50:47):
you know, in tribulations. But, uh,
the great news is that God is therewith us every step of the way, so.
Well, wow, man. Well,
I always enjoy these conversations.
And so I don't wanna wear you out todaybecause I wanna get you back some time
to talk to more. Uh, and,and I also wanna say, uh,

(51:08):
thank you for the support you'veshown to next level worship.
Uh, oh yeah.
You know, we, we love being inyour church. We've been there,
we've done conferences inyour church, uh, and, uh,
you've brought your team to usand, uh, you've been to Africa.
Yeah.
And, um.
And India.
Uh, yeah. well,that's more than I can say.

(51:32):
.
I tried to get to India, but that'sanother story. It wouldn't let me in,
but on a technicality of myvisa, thank you very much.
But you and PG cared right on and hada great experience there. While I sat,
remember this, I had to goback to OS a OS. How say,
do you say OBA Ababa? I have yousay it. Yeah. The anyway, uh,
the capital of Ethiopia and sitthere in an airport and teach,

(51:57):
um,
via online while you're there in personwith all these wonderful worship leaders
and pastors in the room in India .
And just if anyone's ever traveledoverseas or to remote places,
just the fact that that was able to bepossible was a miracle on and episode.
Yeah.
.
That's true.
Well, I mean, it just,

(52:21):
yeah. You know,
it was just incredible just to seeGod pull through in those moments.
Yeah. Cause I mean, I,
I didn't know what we were gonna doand they wouldn't let me in the country
because of this, you know,it's technicality. It, it was,
it was not their fault. Right. It wasreally my oversight, but I just didn't,
I didn't know it, I an issue, butanyway, um, and so it was like, well,

(52:43):
thank you. And now we'veleft, left Josh hanging.
He's there all by himself. Uh, as faras only a us person there and, and,
and right with PG, but you guys justrocked it. So you've been to India. You,
you, and, and you've lived totell, you know, you've actually,
you continue to hang withus even after that fiasco,
but it turned out to actually bea blessing and God blessed it. Uh,

(53:05):
and you just, you know,
you Indiana have come torefocus on several occasions when we were doing it live
in person in gall. Oh, wellactually fours, the smokes, uh,
guys were there and then you you're,we've had your team lead from a distance.
Even when we moved down to Pensacola.
We've held, uh, renew at ourchurch. And how renew couple.

(53:27):
Times, couple times.
What was the other one? The, um.
Yeah, we do. Well, we don't do them now,but we did an intensive there with you.
Yeah. Uh, and the own reason we don'tis we just got so much on our plate.
We just had to put that gofor a while, but man, that's,
that's where we're really pour into andjust dig into strategic planning. Yeah.
We did that with you. Yeah. So you you'vetried a lot of things with us, man,

(53:48):
and you've been using pure praiseand our other materials. So thanks.
Thanks for all that.
Oh man. Thank you for letting God use you.
And next level worshiphas made a huge impact.
I'm looking forward to lots of greatpartnerships in the future. So, so.
I'm thinking, so I'm thinking. Andso just so, um, everybody knows,
these guys are actually meetingin the old Sweetwater building.

(54:08):
Uh that's that's, that's where theymeet. This is so cool. And so yeah, if.
You're a worship, Peter, ifyou're a worship leader, there's,
there's no doubt that you probably you've.
Heard of Sweetwater. Yeah.
Yeah. So that's,
that's headquartered here in Fort Wayneand it's literally just a couple miles
from where I'm at now, but yeah,
this room that we're in usedto be a guitar room, so oh wow.

(54:31):
You see the flat walls behindme. They would hang actually.
Looks so cool by the way. Yeah.
yeah. The guitars and soclimate control room and, and so, um,
so.
Yeah, that's that room, man. That's anice room dude. Nice. They set you up.
Well, let me tell you,
if you ever get a chanceto visit Sweetwater is something else it's like their
new,
their newer location is likethe Google of music and oh yeah.

(54:54):
Um, they've got, they just,they opened up last year.
I think the world's largest like musicstore and it's just, it's unreal.
Yeah. It's unreal. You know,
it's easy to take for granted that it'sjust like a Stone's throw away, but yes,
it's awesome. Yeah.Sweetwater. This was, but I.
Mean, you've got,

(55:14):
you've got people on your team thatare that work there and I mean,
it's just a great partnership.Mm-hmm .
Yeah. Yes we do. And attendhere and yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Attend there. Yeah. I rememberwhen we first came up, um, to just, uh,
we were coming through,
we wanna record you and Indianajust talking about the resources,
the next step of worship. Rememberthat we, we did a video with you. Yes.

(55:35):
And you said, Hey, go. Yeah, you said,now this is like five years ago. Now,
I guess you said you wanna go over to sewyou water and eat lunch. I'm thinking.
Eat lunch, eat.
Lunch at a, at a audio store. it did not sound appealing at all.
It's like, I mean, I didn't know. Y'alllike, I know you now, but, but I, right,
right, right. All, I mean, hewants to go to eat at, at an audio,

(55:56):
I guess I'll go. Oh, myword. It was like, uh,
amazing and buffet and it wasawesome, but I went, wow. So,
uh, I was amazing, but anyway,I'll never be, forget that. Well,
I thank you Josh forthe time today, buddy.
Absolutely.
Good man. Been good. I want youto go check on your mama and, uh,
get back to all that otherstuff you got going on, but.

(56:18):
Yeah, no, this is great. A nice,it's been a nice little, uh,
interruption to my day,even though it was planned.
Yes, it was a plannedinterruption, but, uh, yeah, but.
It was, it was, I'm verythankful for this time. Thank.
You so much. Oh, always,always enjoy, uh, our time.
And so we'll be in touch and, and,
and get you back on here again andhopefully get you involved with some,
some more trips in that downthe road. Gotta get you back.

(56:40):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
All right, buddy. Well, Hey, thankseverybody for joining us for live talk.
We'll be back next week and, um, it'llbe hard to talk this guy, but, uh, I,
I promise you, we got somemore great guests coming up,
so we'll see you back next weekfor more live talk. Thanks so much.
Thanks for listening to live.
Talk with Dwayne Moore livetalk is presented by next level,

(57:01):
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