November 15, 2023 • 8 mins
In this episode I discuss the latest news on the pistol brace rule and explain how this version of the rule is almost dead.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:19):
Well, welcome to the live toshoot podcast.
My name is Jeff Dowdell and I'vebeen a licensed firearm dealer
for the last 16 years in thispodcast to talk about all things
related to the second amendment,anything else going on in the
world or any other story that Imight find interesting.
So welcome, welcome, welcome.
So I wanted to just touch basewith you real quick today and
give you an update on the pistolbrace rule.
This thing has been, you know,going on and on for the last
(00:41):
year or so.
And we gone through a variety ofdifferent.
Uh, uh, iterations and episodesand ups and downs, and we are
finally getting to a, to a goodplace.
So to, uh, circle back from thebeginning, the ATF issued a
ruling that basically said thatif you have a pistol brace, a
brace that attaches to a apistol, a typically an AR type
(01:07):
pistol, uh, that, that makesthat a short barreled rifle.
And these pistol braces wereoriginally designed for people
that were handicapped, had somesort of disability that made it,
uh, difficult for them to, uh,fire a, uh, a AR type pistol,
uh, effectively.
And so this takes it and bracesit against their forearm so that
(01:31):
they have a more stable firingplatform to shoot from.
And the ATF has come back, cameback and issued a ruling that
said that these are short barrelrifles and so they need to be
treated as such and that theyhave to be registered with the
NFA.
You have to pay your 200 taxstamp and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And so this rule, uh, wasproposed and went for comments,
(01:54):
people tore it apart, and then,uh, the ATF finally issued
their, their final ruling andgave everybody a little, uh,
leeway, a few months to, uh,file their tax stamps.
They gave them a free, they,they didn't charge them the 200,
but you had to register and youhad to say, I've got one of
these.
Or if you didn't, you had todestroy it or risk being a
(02:18):
felon.
And a very, very, very smallpercentage of the estimated
owners of these file their,their form, uh, ones to register
these.
So there were a lot of felonspotentially created.
And obviously this went to courtand there were some temporary
restraining orders that were putin place across the country
(02:41):
based on different, uh, whetheryou're a Texas resident or if
you're a member of the, uh,Firearms Policy Coalition or Gun
Owners of America, you gotthese, uh, there's just a
hodgepodge of rulings that said,you know, right now you're not,
if you're in this class, thisgroup, you're, the ATF can't
(03:03):
enforce this rule against you.
Finally, a district court hascome down and set a, a temporary
injunction.
So the injunction is anationwide, uh, ruling versus
the restraining order, which isbased on different groups.
And the injunction applies toeveryone and has said that.
(03:24):
Right now, this rule does notexist.
We're going back to the statusquo and we're going to wait
until this thing is finallydecided in the courts.
And they only do this when theyhave a really good idea that
They're not going to, the ATF isnot going to, to win in this
case and, uh, where eventuallythe rule will be invalidated.
(03:50):
So what's going on here?
So what is, is happened is thishas been, it's really more
procedural, administrative.
process.
It's not really related to theSecond Amendment.
I'm not saying that these thingsare protected or not protected
by the Second Amendment.
That's not the argument.
There's the Administrative, uh,Process Act and Mis
Administrative Procedures Actthat basically tells how all
(04:13):
these different agencies, FAA,ATF, uh, EPA, how they're
supposed to issue theseAdministrative rules and that's
what this was an administrativerule.
It wasn't a law, it was a newrule that they said this is how
we're gonna start enforcing itand they have to follow these
(04:34):
rules and what this case issaying is that the ATF didn't
follow these rules which theydidn't.
If y'all remember the originalrule came out and they had this
long form all these questionsand criteria and depending on
what your gun, how it If it, youwould give it a certain point
(04:54):
level and if it had a certainpoint level, then it would come
back and say that, yes, uh, thisis an SBR.
And it was very complicated.
And when it went through thecomment periods, it, people just
destroyed it about howunrealistic it was to, uh, make
this determination.
So the ATF came back andcompletely changed the rule and
(05:15):
just said, Hey, we're just goingto look at these few criteria.
So it's kind of a bait andswitch.
They say, hey, there's a rule.
I want everybody to comment onit.
And then they issue a new rule.
And that's what the court sayingthat ATF, you, you could not do
this.
And so we are now in this periodwhere, uh, the courts have
(05:36):
finally gone through the processand they issued this, this
temporary injunction where noweverybody's protected.
So if you didn't file your formone and you still have your
pistol brace.
You're safe.
You can go out and use it.
You can do everything that youhave previously.
If you filed it as an SBR, well,now you have to kind of treat it
(05:57):
like an SBR.
You have to make sure you gotyour tax stamp with you, blah,
blah, blah, wherever you go.
It's kind of complicated.
Not sure how they're going toundo some of this, uh, this, uh,
uh, stuff.
And that's part of why theinjunction was put in place,
because the court said, if wekeep doing this, there's some...
irreparable harm that's going tohappen to these people.
(06:18):
They're spending money, they'redoing all this kind of stuff,
and we can't back it out.
So we got to put a pause on thistill we figure this thing out.
So what's going to happen?
Well, more than likely, it'sgoing to go to court, it's going
to get decided, and it's goingto, the rule's going to be
invalidated.
Then the ATF is going to appealand the fifth Circuit will
(06:40):
probably look at this and it'lleventually make, its make its
way to the Supreme Court.
And at that point in time, theSupreme Court is gonna have to
evaluate whether or not thisrule, uh, was uh, done correctly
or not.
And at that point, I don't knowif it'll fall under some Second
Amendment.
Um, issues or not, but that'llbe the process.
(07:01):
And we're probably looking at acouple of years before it makes
it through this process.
So good news is.
We've got a few years beforethis whole pistol brace thing
comes back up and we have tostart worrying about it again.
Uh, bad news is, is that sinceit is an administrative rule,
the ATF could come back and do awhole new rule, try and go
(07:24):
through the process correctlyand see now, do they have that
staying power?
Do they have that gumption to doit?
Plus we're going to get a newadministration in hopefully in
a, in a year or so.
And.
Maybe the whole approach for theATF will completely change at
that point in time.
So.
Kind of wait and see, but rightnow, good news is, if you have a
(07:45):
pistol, a pistol brace, it'scompletely legal, you can go out
and use it, no worries, nothingto worry from the ATF, because
they can't enforce this rule, sogood news in that standpoint,
and for now, we're gonnaprobably not be talking about
the pistol brace rule for alittle while, because we're
gonna have to go through someother court decisions, and
eventually, we're really gonnabe waiting for it to get to the
(08:06):
Supreme Court, so.
Thank you for watching.
Just a quick update for you.
Appreciate her by listening.
Uh, have a good day and I will,and if I don't talk to you
before, have a happyThanksgiving, going to be doing
some traveling, so probablywon't get another episode out
unless something just pops thatwe have to talk about and get
that out to y'all, but, uh, Iwanted to get this update to
(08:28):
you.
So got a pistol brace, go outand use it this weekend.
Um, and if, if you liked thisepisode, share it with others.
Follow the podcast, do all thosethings.
Uh, appreciate you listening.
Thanks and have a happyThanksgiving and, uh, enjoy all
your time off.
Thank you.
Well, welcome to the live toshoot podcast.
My name is Jeff Dowdell and I'vebeen a licensed firearm dealer
for the last 16 years in thispodcast to talk about all things
related to the second amendment,anything else going on in the
world or any other story that Imight find interesting.
So welcome, welcome, welcome.
So I wanted to just touch basewith you real quick today and
give you an update on the pistolbrace rule.
This thing has been, you know,going on and on for the last
(00:41):
year or so.
And we gone through a variety ofdifferent.
Uh, uh, iterations and episodesand ups and downs, and we are
finally getting to a, to a goodplace.
So to, uh, circle back from thebeginning, the ATF issued a
ruling that basically said thatif you have a pistol brace, a
brace that attaches to a apistol, a typically an AR type
(01:07):
pistol, uh, that, that makesthat a short barreled rifle.
And these pistol braces wereoriginally designed for people
that were handicapped, had somesort of disability that made it,
uh, difficult for them to, uh,fire a, uh, a AR type pistol,
uh, effectively.
And so this takes it and bracesit against their forearm so that
(01:31):
they have a more stable firingplatform to shoot from.
And the ATF has come back, cameback and issued a ruling that
said that these are short barrelrifles and so they need to be
treated as such and that theyhave to be registered with the
NFA.
You have to pay your 200 taxstamp and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And so this rule, uh, wasproposed and went for comments,
(01:54):
people tore it apart, and then,uh, the ATF finally issued
their, their final ruling andgave everybody a little, uh,
leeway, a few months to, uh,file their tax stamps.
They gave them a free, they,they didn't charge them the 200,
but you had to register and youhad to say, I've got one of
these.
Or if you didn't, you had todestroy it or risk being a
(02:18):
felon.
And a very, very, very smallpercentage of the estimated
owners of these file their,their form, uh, ones to register
these.
So there were a lot of felonspotentially created.
And obviously this went to courtand there were some temporary
restraining orders that were putin place across the country
(02:41):
based on different, uh, whetheryou're a Texas resident or if
you're a member of the, uh,Firearms Policy Coalition or Gun
Owners of America, you gotthese, uh, there's just a
hodgepodge of rulings that said,you know, right now you're not,
if you're in this class, thisgroup, you're, the ATF can't
(03:03):
enforce this rule against you.
Finally, a district court hascome down and set a, a temporary
injunction.
So the injunction is anationwide, uh, ruling versus
the restraining order, which isbased on different groups.
And the injunction applies toeveryone and has said that.
(03:24):
Right now, this rule does notexist.
We're going back to the statusquo and we're going to wait
until this thing is finallydecided in the courts.
And they only do this when theyhave a really good idea that
They're not going to, the ATF isnot going to, to win in this
case and, uh, where eventuallythe rule will be invalidated.
(03:50):
So what's going on here?
So what is, is happened is thishas been, it's really more
procedural, administrative.
process.
It's not really related to theSecond Amendment.
I'm not saying that these thingsare protected or not protected
by the Second Amendment.
That's not the argument.
There's the Administrative, uh,Process Act and Mis
Administrative Procedures Actthat basically tells how all
(04:13):
these different agencies, FAA,ATF, uh, EPA, how they're
supposed to issue theseAdministrative rules and that's
what this was an administrativerule.
It wasn't a law, it was a newrule that they said this is how
we're gonna start enforcing itand they have to follow these
(04:34):
rules and what this case issaying is that the ATF didn't
follow these rules which theydidn't.
If y'all remember the originalrule came out and they had this
long form all these questionsand criteria and depending on
what your gun, how it If it, youwould give it a certain point
(04:54):
level and if it had a certainpoint level, then it would come
back and say that, yes, uh, thisis an SBR.
And it was very complicated.
And when it went through thecomment periods, it, people just
destroyed it about howunrealistic it was to, uh, make
this determination.
So the ATF came back andcompletely changed the rule and
(05:15):
just said, Hey, we're just goingto look at these few criteria.
So it's kind of a bait andswitch.
They say, hey, there's a rule.
I want everybody to comment onit.
And then they issue a new rule.
And that's what the court sayingthat ATF, you, you could not do
this.
And so we are now in this periodwhere, uh, the courts have
(05:36):
finally gone through the processand they issued this, this
temporary injunction where noweverybody's protected.
So if you didn't file your formone and you still have your
pistol brace.
You're safe.
You can go out and use it.
You can do everything that youhave previously.
If you filed it as an SBR, well,now you have to kind of treat it
(05:57):
like an SBR.
You have to make sure you gotyour tax stamp with you, blah,
blah, blah, wherever you go.
It's kind of complicated.
Not sure how they're going toundo some of this, uh, this, uh,
uh, stuff.
And that's part of why theinjunction was put in place,
because the court said, if wekeep doing this, there's some...
irreparable harm that's going tohappen to these people.
(06:18):
They're spending money, they'redoing all this kind of stuff,
and we can't back it out.
So we got to put a pause on thistill we figure this thing out.
So what's going to happen?
Well, more than likely, it'sgoing to go to court, it's going
to get decided, and it's goingto, the rule's going to be
invalidated.
Then the ATF is going to appealand the fifth Circuit will
(06:40):
probably look at this and it'lleventually make, its make its
way to the Supreme Court.
And at that point in time, theSupreme Court is gonna have to
evaluate whether or not thisrule, uh, was uh, done correctly
or not.
And at that point, I don't knowif it'll fall under some Second
Amendment.
Um, issues or not, but that'llbe the process.
(07:01):
And we're probably looking at acouple of years before it makes
it through this process.
So good news is.
We've got a few years beforethis whole pistol brace thing
comes back up and we have tostart worrying about it again.
Uh, bad news is, is that sinceit is an administrative rule,
the ATF could come back and do awhole new rule, try and go
(07:24):
through the process correctlyand see now, do they have that
staying power?
Do they have that gumption to doit?
Plus we're going to get a newadministration in hopefully in
a, in a year or so.
And.
Maybe the whole approach for theATF will completely change at
that point in time.
So.
Kind of wait and see, but rightnow, good news is, if you have a
(07:45):
pistol, a pistol brace, it'scompletely legal, you can go out
and use it, no worries, nothingto worry from the ATF, because
they can't enforce this rule, sogood news in that standpoint,
and for now, we're gonnaprobably not be talking about
the pistol brace rule for alittle while, because we're
gonna have to go through someother court decisions, and
eventually, we're really gonnabe waiting for it to get to the
(08:06):
Supreme Court, so.
Thank you for watching.
Just a quick update for you.
Appreciate her by listening.
Uh, have a good day and I will,and if I don't talk to you
before, have a happyThanksgiving, going to be doing
some traveling, so probablywon't get another episode out
unless something just pops thatwe have to talk about and get
that out to y'all, but, uh, Iwanted to get this update to
(08:28):
you.
So got a pistol brace, go outand use it this weekend.
Um, and if, if you liked thisepisode, share it with others.
Follow the podcast, do all thosethings.
Uh, appreciate you listening.
Thanks and have a happyThanksgiving and, uh, enjoy all
your time off.
Thank you.
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