Keith and Roxann chop it up in front of a Live audience from The Science Museum in Boston Massachusetts with Special Guest Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley. The trio talks about the Congresswoman”s work on Capital Hill to help survivors of trauma, and their journey to finding supportive partners.
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(00:00):
the triggered project presents,
what does that mean for me?
If I,
if I need help that way and who am I gonna ask?
Who am I gonna talk to and where am I gonna go?
You need to understand what's going on in your community.
You need to understand what it's like to take the bus in your community and what you don't have access to.
There's such a fear of actually trying to face the hardest thing that you've ever had to face because you're not sure what else is going to come with it,
(00:25):
it sort of never goes away,
triggers a buzzword and the kids have picked up on it.
You know the way you're talking to me right now,
you got me mad triggered.
I need to talk to the nurse,
we're really not meant to have lasted as long as we have no,
you were supposed to mess this up a long time ago.
(00:47):
You can't see me but straight this is living a good life.
For more information on the living a triggered life podcast,
go to www dot triggered one.
Good evening everyone and welcome to the Museum of Science boston and our very special live taping of the living and triggered life podcast.
(01:13):
I'm James Monroe,
the producer of adult programs and theater experiences here at the museum and I'm really honored to kick off this incredible evening.
I'm thrilled to be standing here in front of a live in person audience here in Connor's theater.
Yes,
give yourselves a hand.
It's wonderful to have you back with us.
We do not take it for granted Were also live streaming tonight out to a virtual audience who are watching with us on Youtube.
(01:35):
So a huge hello to our digital friends,
thank you for tuning in from afar.
Um Tonight is really special.
We're thrilled to have back with us,
our friends from the trigger project,
we did our first live living,
a triggered life podcast event in the fall and tonight I'm thrilled to have our friends and the co creators and co host of the podcast back keith and Roxanne Maskell um over the past year we've really been able to develop a strong and deep relationship with both of them and it's one of the most important to our team here at the museum.
(02:03):
So we thank them for allowing us to be a very,
very,
very small part of all the incredible work that they're doing across the country.
Were also honored to have with us tonight via virtual livestream,
another very special guest,
Congresswoman,
Ayanna Pressley.
Um she is waiting in the wings to come out onto the quote unquote virtual stage.
(02:23):
Um and I'm gonna let keith and Roxanne formally introduce her though she needs no introduction but I just want to start tonight off with a huge thank you to the congresswoman and her entire team for giving us time tonight and being here and sharing.
It's truly an honor to have you with us and how this is gonna work tonight.
After the conversation with keith and Roxanne and the congresswoman,
we're gonna say good night to congresswoman Pressley and then there's gonna be a Q and A with keith and Roxanne where all of you can submit questions so if you have a question for them at any time,
(02:50):
all you have to do is pull out those smartphones,
whether you're here with us in person or watching at home And go to slide 0.com and enter the code triggered life all one word just as it appears on the screen behind me and then after the formal program here,
if you are with us on site we invite you to a reception one level down in the blue wing,
(03:11):
the DJ will be spinning again and keith and Roxanne will be out there.
They want to chat with you so make sure you stick around and continue the evening with us.
I need to thank our friends in the Low Institute for their ongoing support of the adult programming without them,
we would not be here tonight.
So a huge thank you to everyone at the low institute but now it is my extreme pleasure to welcome out your co host,
(03:31):
my dear friends keith and Roxanne Roxanne project.
More information about the project www dot dot com.
Welcome Welcome!
Welcome to living a trigger like podcast with keith Maskell and we are live right now at the Museum of Science in boston massachusetts,
(04:00):
we are so excited to be back for our second live shout out to James Monroe for being able to put this all together in the technical team here,
you all really have taken such good care of us and we so so appreciate it.
Um but my rocks,
(04:20):
this is exciting and you're looking wonderful tonight by the way,
I got to tell you that,
wow,
this is a good moment,
rocks.
I know,
wait,
you're making me misty,
I'm starting to get emotional.
Okay,
I don't need you to get emotional yet.
We have plenty of time.
No,
we haven't even started,
(04:40):
I'm already getting emotional,
that's okay but we have a really special guest,
very special guest tonight.
We are so honored to have um and I say my congresswoman,
our congresswoman,
Ayanna Pressley in the house tonight.
(05:01):
We want to welcome you,
how are you,
congresswoman?
It is so great to have you.
It's so great to see you.
Um Yes,
yes,
yes.
Yes.
Oh my God,
we are just,
this is just such a blessing to have you um have you here.
(05:21):
But what we usually do is we just do a quick check in just to start out um so you should say how I'm doing and then I'll ask Roxanne and then we'll check in with you really quickly um then we'll tell you why you know we wanted to talk to you and then we'll jump right into the questions how does that sound?
Alright,
beautiful.
Um so um I'm doing okay today,
(05:44):
a little stressed,
which happens when you you know you try to put together a podcast and things like that um you know my step step and repeat didn't come today and so I was a little upset about that but you know what?
I went to my self care,
I said you know what,
this is such a blessing of what's happening,
keith just let that go,
went out and shot some hoops,
(06:05):
felt pretty good about that,
did some meditation um checked in with a friend who um who had just been injured a little bit and stuff so I wanted to make sure that I was um that I was giving some energy to him um and then just kind of settled into uh what was gonna happen this evening and um really just turned around whatever direction that I was this morning,
(06:31):
so I'm feeling blessed right now.
So Rocks!
What's up rocks?
Mm I'm still uh decompressing Mother's Day.
My mama had to make it extra but not special.
I mean that's what happens sometimes,
(06:52):
right?
It's the holidays that bring the worst out in us sometimes when we make an effort to show up and show out and be there for them and then uh you know they just don't know how to manage those emotions.
So I was pretty sick for a couple of days and it was the stress on me and tired trying to do too much and then today I woke up and was like,
(07:16):
it's a new day.
I'm ready.
Ready.
And then I thought about what we were doing tonight and I was like,
I'm really ready.
Very ready because this is the best part of the things that I do all day doing this work.
This is the real work connecting with people.
(07:37):
This is the work giving space to people to talk about what they don't get to talk about if they choose.
So I'm good.
I'm good.
How are you today?
How you doing?
Yeah.
Well,
I actually,
um,
(07:58):
yesterday was a very depleting day.
Um,
there was a vote taken in the in the Senate,
um regarding bodily autonomy and reproductive freedom.
And that was actually a bill that I'm a co lead for.
So that was my legislation.
(08:19):
And you know,
I was just feeling the weight of just a myriad of sort of intersectional legislative oppression and you know,
like I seek to do the work of liberation of black people and all marginalized people but centering black women for a moment given the history of medical apartheid on our bodies,
(08:48):
forced sterilizations,
hysterectomies,
highest maternal morbidity in the country.
And um,
now that we could be in a situation and circumstance of forced birth.
And it just seems that our bodies and the bodies of black women in particular,
(09:10):
um,
are just always being policed criminalized,
vilified,
you know,
uh,
in some way.
And so I felt a real eraser yesterday and today,
you know,
I feel very sitting and uh,
and very centered in large part because I have this to look forward to,
(09:34):
but also because so many people today,
we're speaking life into me and we're offering me affirmation and restoration and you know,
that they expressed gratitude for the fight that I put up and so that felt good.
Yeah,
thank you for that.
And you know,
the reason why we want to talk to you just because like you're always,
(09:57):
you're always just authentic.
I've watched you talk to so many people,
um,
and everybody is important.
That's how that's how it seems.
Like you're just so you're so genuine.
So what's important and you know,
after alive I said to James,
if we could talk to the congresswoman,
I want to talk to her,
you know.
Um,
(10:18):
and for me,
um,
I always felt when seeing you,
um,
just a positive energy,
You don't have to say anything to anybody but your positive energy give life to people,
you know what I'm saying and I felt like at certain point you a little bit more than a reflection of us,
(10:44):
you know,
just like,
no,
like we keep it,
keep it authentic and you never know like yeah,
just saying hi to somebody means a lot to people,
you know what I'm saying.
And so just the fact of being somewhere or being a newbie in uh,
and I love that mug by the way,
(11:07):
love that mug,
love that way,
you know?
Yeah,
just the fact that,
you know,
that happens and I see the effect of you just saying hi to someone and you know,
so that's that's just important for me to have you to have you here as a voice of the people and so but rocks,
(11:35):
you know,
kick it.
Yeah,
I wanted to say um a little bit about why I wanted to speak to you and I don't,
I mean,
you always say you remember,
and I have this little voice inside of me that says,
no you don't all the time,
but you know,
I have to,
like beat that voice down,
but I met you at the commonwealth seminar and this was I don't know how many years ago and every single time that I've seen you after that and you're like,
(12:01):
no,
I know who you are and no matter how many times you say it,
I'm like,
no,
you don't,
you don't know me.
And that's just a little voice inside of me.
And I mean,
you know,
that's what happens to us.
That's part of trauma,
right?
That we don't believe that people really see us and that's why I was so excited about having you here with us besides the podcast is so special to me in my life.
(12:28):
Um there's something about your eyes that I really do believe that I'm seen in the world and there's so many moments of my life where I feel invisible and that's what trauma does because the trauma experiences that I've had uh because I didn't feel protected or I wasn't protected,
(12:55):
made me feel invisible all the time.
And so when I see you and you're like I know who you are,
I'm like really because I felt so invisible throughout my whole life and that's why I wanted to have you here in this special moment with us because I'm always feeling seen no matter how much I wanna say no,
(13:25):
your eyes always tell me yes,
I see you sister.
And I love that about you to the fact that I didn't I don't think I told you this keith.
I really wanted to move in Cambridge so that we could be in her district.
You did,
(13:46):
you did talk to him about that.
You did talk to you about that for sure.
I really thought about it for sure.
Yeah.
First of all I received all of that and and I'll tell you why I remember you and I actually think the last time I thought the last time that we burn each other's proximity was in Cambridge.
(14:09):
But I could be wrong about that.
But that that was my that's what I thought.
But you know my recollection of you has nothing to do with politics.
You're a rare person who when you have asked how I am doing,
I believed you were really asking me and I don't know if you all know that sort of perfunctory way people will ask you that question all the time.
(14:32):
Right.
But you know,
there's some people just in the inflection with which they asked the question you can pull yourself breaking because you know what is coming from like a deeply authentic place and all this sort of can't perfunctory responses you gave the whole day.
It's not going to fly with this person.
(14:52):
So that's actually how I emotionally remember you.
Okay,
every time you sign these questions.
(15:14):
Yes,
yes.
Tell us why you want to be here.
Mm Yeah,
I wanted to be here because um I'm really trying to challenge us,
those of us um who our whole identity has been defined by the resistance and being warriors and all of these things to be as radical and bold about our joy and our healing as we are about the work of resistance.
(15:47):
And I remember my In 2018,
once I was left to Congress,
I had a ceremonial swearing in community because I wanted to make the point that like,
you know,
this is symbiotic,
I'm governing cooperatively and I'm not gonna be the only one to take an oath,
you're gonna take an oath with me and I co authored this pledge and one of this community pledge which 400 people strong Roxbury community college took with me was I will I will inform Joy because Joy is an act of resistance and I've actually amended that now because I think that's part of the problem.
(16:26):
Um,
you know,
folks that you can't pour from an empty cup,
they're still saying do the work of restoration.
You can continue to labor and what and what I'm trying to get folks to give ourselves permission to be unapologetically is just to be,
I,
(16:48):
I mean,
so I don't,
you don't need to,
you know,
when people talk about self care,
you need to do self care so you can keep doing the work.
You know,
everything is about labor utility.
It's not about being all the messages that I got as a child from my mother was about the armor I needed to put on to navigate to negotiate to handle aggression,
(17:11):
microaggressions,
hostilities,
toxicity.
It was all about armor.
Nobody ever talked to me about joy,
nobody ever talked to me about healing.
And so the fact that you created this space and the last thing I'll say about the two of you is that I do believe that Black love is a revolutionary and radical act.
(17:35):
And we know that in that martin and Coretta met in the massive,
she said seven in Roxbury and you know,
many people define her um,
as his wife,
but she was a Liberator in her own right.
She was an architect of this movement and it would not have been birth were it not for their radical Black love.
(17:59):
And so I just wanted to endorse what you two were doing and the space that you've created.
Yes,
thank you so much uh for all that.
And that's one thing that some people don't talk about with this podcast is is about Black love,
right?
And the importance of talking about not just the best part of it,
(18:22):
but the other parts that need work.
And that's one thing that was important to us which started this podcast is me as a survivor.
And how does it affect our relationship?
Right?
How do we figure it out and being triggered?
That's not something that our parents talked to us about either,
right?
How do we figure it out?
And um you know,
(18:43):
I've been lucky just to have this woman,
you know,
stand next to me um and you know pushed me behind and pull me forward sometimes and um if we can help people by telling our story,
then that's exactly what we're gonna do and we will be unapologetic about it.
So thank you with everything that you just said.
(19:04):
Um and but that leads to that leads to the second question is,
you know,
as a survivor,
how is your trauma influenced and affected your work as a public official?
Mhm.
Well,
it influences everything about me and my worldview.
(19:25):
And so in turn how eye movement build,
how I community build how I legislate um you know,
it's almost talking about invisibility.
I think that is the unique dichotomy,
the marginalized existence,
especially for black folks,
especially for black women.
We have this dichotomy of being hyper visible and invisible all at the same time.
(19:50):
So were visible enough to be criminalized and police,
but we're invisible enough to be slowly dying.
Um you know,
given a host of things,
you know,
everything again from the maternal morbidity crisis or the weight of student dead or um you know,
(20:13):
they're not being space spelled for our healing or our justice given the number of us who are survivors of abuse.
You know,
I'm a survivor of a decade of um of childhood sexual abuse and also a survivor of campus sexual assault.
(20:34):
Uh and so I certainly do center survivors justice in my policy word.
And that for me ranges from,
you know,
fighting foreign investment in those social emotional wellness supports to acknowledge what our Children need.
(20:55):
Childhood trauma is growing.
I think it is in the midst of its own pandemic.
You know what they were carrying in their emotional backpacks um as they cross into learning communities pre pandemic.
And it is frightening the increase in anxiety and depression and suicide ideation.
(21:17):
So I do a lot of work legislatively around childhood trauma,
in fact,
that can be the first ever congressional hearing on childhood drama.
Um so those social emotional investments and supports within our learning communities also what our community health centers and then again,
shining a light on the issue using my power of convening and things like a committee hearing.
(21:42):
Um,
also for survivors of big events,
I have like natural disasters,
domestic terrorism things in that way.
And then finally I'll just say surviving family members of homicide victims.
There's a lot of work that I do in that space and we know that one in four black and brown people have lost a loved one to gun violence.
(22:04):
We know for every person that were robbed of,
I mean they weren't lost and say you lost someone,
you were robbed of every level that were robbed of,
Um,
that that impacts a minimum of 10 people.
So we're talking about 120-130,000 new survivors surviving family members of homicide victims every year.
(22:25):
And um,
you know,
we know that trauma manifests in many ways.
Uh,
there's primary trauma,
there's secondary trauma.
And so what I'm,
what I'm fighting for is just investments.
As I said at the Peace Walk on Mother's Day.
You know,
community is possible if we build it.
Peace is possible if we worked for it and healing is possible if we invest in it.
(22:48):
You know,
so as a survivor,
I'm centering survivors justice and all of my work,
whether it's survivors of sexual assault or addressing childhood trauma or natural disasters or disruptive events or whether it's um,
surviving family members of homicide victims,
but I'm also trying to prevent trauma.
(23:11):
So like when I say I'm a survivor,
it's interesting now that I say that and because I'm bald people will think I'm a survivor of cancer,
so I'm having to figure out new bourbon,
so people,
but my father was incarcerated for 14 years,
I think I'm a survivor of mass incarceration.
My mother not at the hands of my father,
but my mother was a survivor of domestic violence,
(23:32):
you know,
of incest and also a rape,
right?
So trauma is inter generational.
So I define myself as a survivor in every way when it comes to trauma,
both primary and secondary.
No,
thank you for that and thank you for sharing and you know,
I honor your piece of healing and I honor the fact that you're a thrive er um you know,
(23:59):
and sometimes we talk about intergenerational trauma,
but sometimes we don't talk about the intergenerational thrive.
Urz that we've become because of that trauma and you are a clear example of that,
so,
no,
thank you for that.
That was that was awesome.
What I like about what you said just now,
what you both said is that it's not enough to remain in the place of surviving,
(24:27):
which is what you say all the time,
right?
It's about thriving,
right?
The trauma that black and brown people have endured over generations has taught us how to survive.
Mhm.
But we need to move into the thriving game and that's what the two of you are talking about primarily is thriving and that is that is part of that healing and that's part of like what we know how to do,
(25:00):
flip the script.
Can I say something about that for a moment?
Listen,
listen respectful of the format and also our time,
but this is this is important.
Policy is my love language and the reason why policy is my love language is because every hurt and harm is one that has been legislated.
(25:25):
It was codified.
So I believe if we can legislate hurt and harm then we can legislate healing,
we can legislate justice,
we can legislate equity.
But how do we do that effectively?
We have to stay in proximity to it because it's only by staying close to it that you understand how intersectional it is,
(25:48):
how complex the new ones and then what I always want to do is then work with those most impacted to develop the best solutions.
The people closest to the pain should be closest to the powerful driving and informing the policy making.
The last thing that I would say on this because you brought up a thriving a couple of weeks ago,
(26:09):
I was meeting with some folks,
someone who had left politics and I said,
what is it like on the other side?
And they said,
I went from a life of obligation to a life of desire and I said,
well that is a privilege,
but one that everyone deserves.
So when I think desire,
(26:31):
I think imagination.
And so as a policymaker,
here's the shift that I was talking with some of my sisters in the work and the birthing uh movement as we're doing maternal justice work.
And they said,
I'm not going to do one more panel to talk about the statistical odds of why black women are more likely to die in childbirth.
Instead.
I'm going to talk about imagine a world where black birthing people feel safe,
(26:56):
sacred and loved.
You see,
But that's why I'm taking time for this because when we're doing this work,
we can perpetuate trauma because culturally we've been told that in order for you to be seen and centered,
you have to relive and weaponize your trauma.
(27:17):
And so you got to do this work as a Liberator and to be a healer.
And you're like,
why am I so heavy?
Because we're not giving ourselves permission for the imagination for the desire for the thriving part.
So let's not sit in the deficit and the data.
(27:38):
Let's sit in the dream,
Right?
That's how we have to organize and legislate.
Right.
Right.
No,
no,
no.
That's that's it.
I'm surprised that people aren't clapping.
I think they forgot they forgot they got mesmerized by words in the language.
Maybe I'm not making it.
No,
(27:58):
no,
no,
no,
no,
no.
You're dropping that Science at the Museum of Science?
You're dropping that,
right?
People ask why are you,
why are you at the Museum of Science like because that's social science,
what we're just talking about social science at its best and we keep saying we're talking about the neurobiology neuroscience of the brain.
(28:22):
Exactly and that's exactly what we just had,
which was awesome.
But um you know we're gonna go we're gonna go move to a different question because the congresswoman answered that one.
So the next question we're gonna get into is um you've often spoken about you know America's growing trauma crisis um and how is the last two years um contributed to that?
(28:48):
Yeah I mean again you know oppression from its intersectional um and we've just been hit by an onslaught of it.
You know it's just it's been unrelenting.
So just our collective loss and grief today we hit the one million mark.
Er I mean it's crazy that this this loss of life has been so normalized for us that you can just see on a little ticker tape on the screen,
(29:16):
you know one million lives and people just sort of keep moving.
You know but we have to keep moving but we can't normalize that kind of loss and suffering.
So we've lost parents and siblings and cousins and teachers and nurses and aunties and grand papa so many of us ever had to say goodbye to loved ones through a screen.
(29:37):
You know I survived the insurrection at my workplace.
We have seen what happens with inaction and inertia insurrection?
I'm upset that it took an insurrection,
a violent white mob erecting nooses on the west lawn of the capitol wearing anti Semitic t shirts and carrying confederate flags,
(30:04):
where people many to realize for the first time that white supremacy is a threat to everyone,
to everyone who calls this country home into our democracy.
So when they put scaffolding up all around the building and now we have to go through metal detectors to go on the floor and all these things.
And people ask me,
do you feel safe for us?
And I'm a black woman in America.
(30:26):
I'm not concerned about the safety of people exclusively at this building.
I don't want to feel safe in this country,
right?
This is,
you know,
we have to destroy white supremacy.
So it's,
you know,
it's the pandemic,
it's an emboldened white supremacy,
anti black asian immigrant sentiment,
(30:53):
islamophobia,
gun violence,
police brutality.
It's been a lot.
So all of that has contributed to our trauma.
And that is why I'm championing the need for trauma informed recovery.
And like I said,
healing is possible if we invest in it and all of my policies center,
survivors of every form of trauma and seek to advance policy that's trauma informed,
(31:16):
we need to have a trauma informed recovery.
You know,
I think that I think you hit it right on right on the head and I think,
you know,
Roxanne,
you see this um you know,
where you work um at BRANDEIS and you know,
I see uh the effects also when I go into schools and I'm talking with,
you know,
(31:36):
with students and um it takes so much for them just to just to show up just to walk through that door.
Um and then have to deal with the anxiety of being around people to learn how to actually be social again.
Um and so many of them have stopped breathing,
(31:57):
so many of them have stopped reading.
And that's the first thing that I say to them as as we do some monologue work is breathe,
breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth because we've been holding our breath for the last two years.
And it is such an important reminder for us,
(32:18):
as you said in the beginning was for us to just be,
but the second part of that is for us to just breathe,
take a moment and just be and breathe and really just take time to let that oxygen through our bodies because it's just been so much that we haven't done right rocks.
(32:42):
I think we don't know how to do it anymore.
Like we're not even cognizant when we're not breathing and I just want to go back because a little bit.
So I was just thinking about in deep thought here about throughout the pandemic.
Um I worked a lot on the front lines and I was thinking about what you were saying about maternal health.
(33:08):
um and some of the other things you were saying.
And I was thinking back to um the pandemic really brought out my ability to say uh and sorry,
I even do this in session,
I swear,
sorry,
apologize,
but to bring out whatever the hell I want to say.
And I come home and I tell keith and I find myself at a maternity rounds and I started saying to doctors and nurses and midwives,
(33:38):
please stop putting in consoles for social workers when there,
when there are primarily black and brown women,
I'm tired,
you're targeting them and I want you to stop.
And sometimes they will get up on me up underneath me because they are like forcing me to go talk to black and brown women and I will say she said no and she has a right to self determine,
(34:05):
leave her alone.
Yeah.
And you know,
like I started like reminiscing all these moments and time of these experiences,
including at BRANDEIS and talking about how my white colleagues are not showing up for my black and brown students and calling them out.
If you're not gonna show up for my students,
(34:27):
don't see them,
I will see all of them if I have to.
And sometimes we need to be able to stand up and just stand up and speak and if we're not breathing,
we're not speaking.
And sometimes we get so um uh distracted by everything that's going on.
(34:53):
We forget that sometimes we're not speaking because we forget how to breathe.
And I've had these moments where I'm like,
I don't care what are y'all gonna do because no one else is gonna show up.
I don't care.
I'm not being disrespectful,
but you will respect the people that look like me.
(35:15):
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
Thank you for that Roxanne.
It's so funny because I feel like sometimes,
you know that Uh you're the clinical play by play person of this podcast.
Kind of like a lead analyst for um for a sports show.
And like it's just so it's just so brilliant.
And I'm like,
how could tom brady get 23 million because you should get like double that for the work that you're doing this podcast.
(35:40):
Like um it's amazing.
But we only have a couple of minutes left.
But um,
I want to make sure to ask,
you know,
ask this question of,
you know,
do you have any advice for survivors who are navigating relationships and and how they show up in the world?
Mm hmm.
You asked me the hardest question three minutes or whatever it is like,
(36:02):
okay.
You know,
it wasn't me.
I do a lot of elected officials to answer the question.
I want to answer the question,
(36:29):
okay.
Something what you did was so important there and I'm sure you do this in your private life as well.
And it's so generous that you all are willing to do this publicly and that is as a partner to hold space for black woman rage because we are talking out of our pain all the time,
(36:57):
right?
We can go to healthcare providers,
they might think we're drug seeking birth.
They don't believe our pain is as bad as it is always being talked out of our pain,
but I want to make it clear,
it's not just by white folks because the burden of white supremacy is.
Black folks will do that to you to always being talked out of our pain and why I chose my husband who I call my black diamond Harris is because we try not to get emotional here about it.
(37:33):
He was the first person who was angry for me after decades of trauma being told to pray it away or shame that was projected onto me because of fractures created in my family when I became the villain and I was the one who was abused because of the fractures are created in my family because it was familial abused one,
(38:05):
there's shame and talking about it because of its intra family.
Um,
and then to when after enduring and overcoming a decade of that and then being raped in college,
you really start thinking,
you know,
I must just have something on my forehead.
I mean I just thought this was,
(38:26):
this was my lot in life,
you know because every,
every corner of my life that I was sent to people that were supposed to care for me and protect me and loved me violated me.
And so and then I did a lot of self sabotage of some good men who wanted to love me because trauma was the third person in in that relationship.
(38:55):
And so then I met my husband who I think might be the first person outside of my mother may she rest in peace and power who saw me fully.
And he was a safe place for me to fall.
He allowed me to be delicate and fragile.
He calls me his warrior in hills,
(39:17):
but that's not what he leads with.
And he got mad for me.
And and I needed that and it made me feel like what happened to me was unacceptable and that it mattered.
And so that which my husband um afforded me that gift is the same gift that I seek to give to everyone and to do that.
(39:46):
Using the power of my platform,
the power of convening the power of the pen and the legislator to say,
you deserve to show up in the world fully authentically unapologetically as you are without fear,
without discrimination,
without violence.
And we are all survivors of something and you deserve to be seen and centered.
(40:11):
So I don't know if that answers any question that it doesn't matter what the question was that it was.
Thank you,
thank you so much.
We're about to wrap up here.
But like everything you said is everything that happened here.
(40:31):
Everything that happened here and that was the one thing that that I'll make a comment that Roxanne had a lot of rage,
right?
I never stifled that rage at all.
And yes,
I was yes,
I was angry for her,
but I allow her to be in the space that she needs to be and let her work,
let her work through that to get to the loving right?
(40:56):
Because that's important,
right?
That's important because we've become a hardened shell.
Sometimes the survivors when we've been hurt and I told her to things I told her one I will never I will never not allow you to be your 100% authentic self right?
Even by her t shirt today too,
I will never as a man get in the way of what you want to do in your life.
(41:20):
There will never ever be a will never be a man,
A man will never step in the way of everything that you want to be.
And two things that I told her,
but we got to wrap up,
thank you so much Congresswoman for being here.
Thank you for just you know,
(41:41):
just being your authentic self and kicking it with us.
We really appreciate your time.
We know you have to go.
So thank you for that heart.
We have the we have the heart back,
we're gonna let you go,
we're gonna continue on but we want to say goodbye,
everybody in the audience,
you can say goodbye,
say goodbye,
thank you.
I'm so jealous,
you got to keep going and being together.
(42:02):
Yes,
thank you,
thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Um,
but I mean,
my goodness,
right,
man,
like,
I'm ready to just walk off the stage,
right?
To do anything else,
but we can't,
we got more to do,
we we got more to do,
but I think that she is fantastic,
just fantastic human being.
(42:23):
Like,
forget being a legislator,
like,
that's great,
you know,
But my God,
she is such a wonderful human being.
And so,
I mean,
but here's what is here,
just,
here's what just happened.
She did what she always does.
She showed up as her authentic self.
Always.
Always.
Right.
And we can't take that for granted,
(42:46):
because that's not something that happens,
right?
That's when people talk about,
when I talk about the congresswoman who I'm talking like,
there's only one to me,
right,
right?
We just we just saw that.
But the one thing that she said that I think that,
you know,
that resonated with me,
of course everything she said,
but the fact that,
um,
it's just reminding me of that,
(43:07):
I've always been angry for you always,
always.
But the thing about it is,
you've always been angry for me and actually,
I've been willing to use my rage for you and fight people,
even though you told me you can't do that.
But you know,
that's that,
y'all listen to podcasts.
You understand that sometimes Bronx,
(43:28):
south Bronx comes out,
you know,
and you know,
one time with someone who got mad,
she was getting mad at or whatever,
someone being crazy and she was doing this motion to somebody and someone said,
you better get you grew.
And I said,
why she ain't mad at me,
facts,
all facts.
So,
(43:48):
you know,
as soon as there was a movement I had,
I had,
I had to step in really quickly,
but Roxanne,
some people ask them questions,
that's wonderful.
I'm ready.
There's some,
some questions.
Let's see,
uh,
let's see what we have.
Um,
and someone asked really quickly,
I'm gonna skip over the first and we'll get back to it.
How do you remain hopeful,
(44:10):
genuinely hopeful?
Um,
in general,
I believe with,
you know,
like being a survivor and things like that.
Do you want to take that?
You want to take it?
I'll say one thing about it and then maybe you'll follow up.
Yeah.
Um,
I have learned to believe that this man unconditionally loves me and he does that in so many different ways,
(44:38):
but it's not just about the doing is about the consistency,
consistency.
Is everything for me because I'm constantly in my head.
Like when you heard me say to the congresswoman about,
I'm always like,
you don't remember me stop playing.
That's the negativity,
the negative voice in my head that tells me about or reminds me about how unworthy I have felt because of the violations.
(45:07):
But this dude,
when he keeps showing up in the same way and keep doing what he does then I know,
but I want to be really clear about something.
God brought him to me when I was ready and I was not ready until I started healing myself and seeking that healing.
(45:35):
There is a real connection between that.
When you start taking care of yourself and you start doing you,
you will see what's in place for you.
He was put in place for me and I was able to see it.
That's how I stay hopeful.
(45:56):
I think,
yeah,
I think for me,
um,
I see hopeful in,
in other people's eyes,
in a lot of ways.
We're doing things with Children and stuff like that.
I see hope in their eyes,
right?
That's what I get,
that's what I get back in a lot of ways.
(46:17):
Um,
but I think it's about belief for me,
you know what I mean,
knowing that other folks in my family have been through this and they were able to do great things,
right?
I'm hopeful because of my mother Connie and everything that she had been through,
(46:42):
but she used her hands for magic when she did people's hands,
people's hair and she used her love of life And extended that and bless people as she did their perm and color,
which has people up and to this day to say your hair,
my hair has never been the same since your mom stopped doing it.
(47:05):
It was 30 years ago.
And so I have that hope.
But I also,
I think it also has something to do with the invasion as well because um,
you know,
my grandmother,
my grandmother used to say,
you know,
we just keep pushing through and like,
(47:28):
I don't know,
our people have been through so much and we've created so much.
It's hard not to not just be selfish to think about myself,
but think about the ancestors that came before that fought for me to be here.
So yes,
being my feelings for a second,
but I got work to do.
And so that that helps me in terms of in terms of hope.
(47:51):
Beautiful.
Thanks Rox.
Um,
but let's get into,
let's get into another question here.
Um,
and uh,
why is it important for conversations around trauma and mental health important for science institutions to amplify?
That's a good question.
(48:12):
Good question.
Right?
I can start real quick cause I know you're gonna jump in and be brilliant.
But I think it goes back to what you said about um,
understanding and expanding people's minds about what science is,
right,
behavioral science.
Right?
And so for me that's what I thought about it.
(48:33):
Like the fact that James Moreau is doing this type of program.
You shout out to James Monroe around as well that's trying to expand expand museums minds and also folks other folks that have science museums their mind about how can we diversify the people that come here?
(48:54):
But how can we also diversify the voices in science?
Right?
Because they also had another podcast here that was that was of color scientists right?
We don't we don't see that.
So it's important that institutions like this start to think differently about how to use art right?
(49:17):
And how to tie art and science together to make it.
So it's not as stuffy as it used to be.
It's not as privileged as it used to be and that we are welcomed into a space like this to have these conversations.
It's incredibly it's incredibly important And you know um we're gonna be doing a panel coming up with a museum believe conference and we're gonna have this conversation across all the museums in the U.
(49:49):
S.
Thanks to James and it's not just stuffy.
I mean I'm gonna speak from my you know I'm considered a social scientist right?
What I do and we have all these ideas about therapist especially black and brown communities but if you take it from being a social scientist it makes a little bit more sense about why the Museum of Science and being here is so important and critical and realistically um medical models and science has been um saturated in white supremacy.
(50:29):
and that has not included us.
But what it has done is um,
identified us as deficit,
a deficit,
you know,
as deficit and that has been the historical context and so doing something like this,
(50:49):
it sort of provides information,
different conversation,
different communities.
It's almost like welcome to something different that includes you that we want you here,
right?
It's like that welcoming that a lot of our museums in boston,
let's keep it real.
(51:09):
Have not sort of felt motivated to do that.
And so I think that this brings to light that we can heal that we've,
you know,
um re sort of defining trauma that,
you know,
a lot of people sometimes are like you're a therapist.
(51:29):
I'm like,
yeah.
And I swear in therapy because I'm okay with that because I feel like it's important for me to be authentic.
And if you tell me something that I think is crazy that you've normalized,
then I want to start swearing because I'm mad.
I'm really mad and I want to change that for you and I want to change that perspective,
(51:54):
right?
That's what we're bringing.
We're changing perspectives here in this place that we wouldn't have been welcome to.
That's real.
Right,
Right?
I mean I definitely coming here as a child.
I never knew they had a theater.
Well I didn't grow up here,
so I'm not gonna speak that I had no idea.
(52:16):
And some people said even the last live there like,
wow,
I didn't even know it was like a magic door.
They had no idea that the door the door,
you never know what it was a child.
You never like,
you're in the blue wing and you're playing around or whatever you never like.
I wonder what,
I wonder what you know.
Right behind that door.
Right.
I just did my mother tell me not to touch anything.
That's right.
Don't touch nothing.
(52:36):
Right?
Because of course you get right.
I always say it all the time.
You know,
I'm west indian.
I was trained.
I wasn't raised,
right?
We don't clean sanitized.
Right?
I mean,
I'm just saying right before you get it before you walk in and here's what it is.
So I don't want you to touch something.
I don't want to talk nobody.
(52:57):
I don't want you to smile.
I don't want to do anything.
But who am I had you do anything besides that?
You got problems here.
Like problems.
Right.
So,
I mean that might have been part of it.
But that's a,
that's a great question.
But it's always interesting when we get to the question and answer part,
right?
Because I feel like folks that have listened to our podcast,
they don't ask those questions.
(53:20):
They hide.
It's very interesting that people hi.
I'm sorry.
But if I listen to Jack in the muppets,
I'm gonna have a question,
I would have,
I would have questions.
Questions.
I know you don't have any questions.
But even with how we met and things like that,
Like,
I expect people just to ask questions,
right?
The other thing that doesn't happen,
which is unbelievable is that people don't follow us on,
(53:40):
I g I don't know what that's about.
I have no idea.
And some people don't think we're legit because,
you know,
we have like 40 followers.
Oh,
I mean,
we don't have that.
We don't have that.
I mean,
you know,
I'm not a social media kind of person.
I don't really put a lot of value into that.
(54:01):
You know what I put value into the last time we did this podcast,
the people that came and talked to me and taught and spoke their truth.
The people who said,
oh my God,
thank you for you can clap my God,
thank you for helping me and talking to me and and then I run into them,
or they run into you and they say,
(54:21):
I remember your wife,
she talked to me.
Oh my God,
she was so right.
That's what I care about social media.
Like I'm happy about it in the sense,
because we reach a lot of communities,
a lot of people.
But beyond that,
those moments that we have with people are the men that come up to you and disclose,
(54:43):
And they never have before.
That's what matters.
No question.
No question.
I'm good.
You wanna you wanna be 40?
I'm okay with that because every single person matters to me.
Right.
Right.
You know,
I wasn't serious about that.
Right?
Oh no,
I didn't know.
Okay.
(55:03):
Because I just went on like,
I mean,
I thought you were Stephen a smith for a second,
but let me just stop that.
But uh here's a question.
Do you have any suggestions on how to bring up mental health conversations at your school as a student middle and high school?
Good question.
I mean,
(55:23):
I think here's the thing,
first of all,
um stay away from jargon,
right?
Language is really important.
Young people,
everybody understands what it's like to have certain experiences and when we welcome people.
I mean,
one of the things that you've done really well is storytelling,
right?
(55:44):
That this is part of the work that you do with the monologue,
right?
You get people sort of speaking their narratives their story,
we call that narrative therapy in my world in black and brown communities.
We call that stories,
right?
And passing the oral history.
And when you sort of um bring those um indigenous ways of communicating and being with one another,
(56:07):
because that's what we're doing in the podcast,
right?
We're talking we're talking to people,
we're talking to each other,
we're sharing it's all about telling stories.
And if you just normalize it as something very simple and don't worry about the jargon,
people are going to speak whatever they need to be spoken.
People just want to feel invited.
(56:28):
We just need to invite people.
It's simplistic.
Sometimes we don't invite people because we want to get caught up in all these bullshit about why we talk to people,
we don't talk to people we wanna isolate,
oh,
I don't like you or this or that.
But I have been known,
especially in some of my jobs,
(56:48):
I work with a lot of West indians and they have,
they very much want to look at you a certain way.
And so I'm like this,
you're still staring at me.
Yes.
And if you're still staring at me after I meet your eyeballs,
(57:09):
I'm like this,
oh,
you are looking at me or the West,
the West indian scout,
that is that they look like this and sometimes that's right.
And when you speak to them and you love on them,
they love you back.
No question.
Yes,
but you have to break through some of these moments.
(57:30):
Yes.
Yes.
Right,
So,
so thank you for jumping on that.
I think,
I think it's being comfortable number one with just having the conversation where you're talking to a teacher or whatever and just expressing how you feel.
I think it's important bringing up the conversation.
There's so many people,
there's so many other students that are having the same type of thoughts and feelings as a student that we don't think like that,
(57:57):
that as a student,
we don't think everybody,
everybody else in the room is having anxiety everybody else is having having issue with mental health in school.
And I think it's important to understand that and start normalizing the conversation with your friends with how you feel,
right?
Because I think that's important to do.
But I think it's also important to try to figure out also the tools,
(58:20):
right?
How to breathe,
how to meditate quietly,
right?
Whether you need to tap,
you know,
sometimes the place and play with something in your hand and be honest with yourself first.
And that will really help with the help with the conversation.
We do a lot of that.
I mean my work,
(58:40):
we do a lot of that around group therapy and a lot of the students,
they're like,
oh,
no,
no,
no,
I don't want to sit in a group.
A lot of I hear a lot of people say that,
but the value of group therapy is that you find out you are not alone in the first session and that in itself can be healing and therapeutic.
And we don't think about it that way because we don't want to expose ourselves.
(59:03):
But if we don't expose ourselves or we don't show up,
then what we're doing is we're isolating and isolation is extremely harmful when you're already struggling and we know how to do isolation really well and that is hurting us.
Yes,
Yes,
yes,
yes,
Yes,
yes,
Thank you.
Let's jump into this.
(59:24):
We're gonna do these rapid fire.
Okay,
because we have about,
we have about five minutes left,
telling yourself that,
Right?
No.
Yeah.
Anyway,
so the next,
the next question uh comes from another person and they here's a good that's a good question too.
How do you conceptualize um Codependency or trauma bonding and support each other,
(59:49):
our clients through that.
That's a that's a deep one.
How do you conceptualize you want to talk about the trauma bonding?
Because we trauma bounded,
right?
Our trauma kids.
Yes,
Yes.
So I will say this really well,
do this quickly.
Um that's the one thing that we always talk about when we first met and things like that are trauma kids bonded,
(01:00:11):
right?
And so that was real for us for our first little part of a little part of our part of our relationship,
but then we started to realize that that was not going to be enough,
right?
We couldn't we couldn't we couldn't we couldn't survive on that and that if we we needed to be the adults as well,
(01:00:36):
had that bond,
We knew we had that.
But how could we grow together our trauma kids grew together because we started to do our individual work.
And that made that made a huge difference in you started first,
but that made a huge difference in terms of us not just having our trauma kids run the relationship,
but to have the growing adults control the relationship,
(01:01:00):
right?
And set the Children down exactly.
And set the Children down like legitimately we had to be like,
oh wait,
sorry,
that's little roxy.
That's not me.
No.
Right,
sorry,
my bad.
Because that's important that we take care of our trauma kids inside of us and sometimes we have to talk to them for them to to sit down,
right?
Because oftentimes what happens is when things get hard,
(01:01:22):
especially for me as a survivor or whatever else.
When my trauma kid is running things,
I got problems.
But regardless me as a man is accountable.
Yes.
So that's why I need to tell him to sit down.
Yes.
And that is not that is not that is not always that is not always easy.
Um because we don't know how to we haven't learned,
(01:01:46):
right?
So,
you know,
like,
you know,
I like this,
we learned certain things from our people,
our families and relationships we're seeing and I use learned on purpose because I want to keep the hope alive that we can oops that we can unlearn it right?
Unlearning that concept makes it accessible for us.
(01:02:08):
We can do this.
I just want to say something.
I just wanna say one line about the co dependency.
Uh that is a term that in my mind is about how we overcompensate unnecessarily because we're trying to avoid something and usually the avoidance is some some version of not wanting to be rejected,
(01:02:31):
but what we're really doing is rejecting self,
Am I making sense about that?
Okay that's where that co dependency comes from and a lot of times co dependency is related to people that have addictions that are partners.
So I just yeah we were fast pace in this.
(01:02:54):
No question.
Thank you.
Roxanne like brilliant.
Five seconds.
Like you're incredible.
All right.
So here's another here's another question really quick seat really quickly.
Um This is not a question but Roxanne as a fellow social worker.
I just vibe with you so much.
You had me at Mother's Day being extra.
(01:03:14):
Not in a good way and this is more of a comment.
And I also follow you guys the way I want I want to make sure that I want to make sure to get that one in a way.
But okay here's another one.
How do you learn ways to embrace and work through feelings and emotion after trauma and relationships?
(01:03:38):
How do you who what?
Okay how do you learn ways to embrace and work through feelings and emotions after trauma in relationships.
And you have 30 seconds.
Go listen I just got trained E.
M.
D.
R.
Go look it up look it up.
It is the way for black and brown people specifically because we experience racialized trauma every day.
(01:04:04):
Every minute every second.
Okay and so while we're well we're doing racialized trauma and experiencing all of this then we're gonna have all these other traumas happen at the same time.
Nobody can handle that,
right?
Tink.
I got you.
All right?
Here's the next one.
So here's another one.
Um,
I know forgiveness is more about you than others,
(01:04:24):
but how do you take the next step to forgive,
forgive others who have hurt you?
So,
I'm gonna make the assumption that they continue to hurt you.
I'm making that assumption in that question,
which would mean to me that we need to pause and what and and reevaluating.
(01:04:47):
What is that?
What is this connection really about right here?
Why do I need this connection?
What are the benefits?
What are the disadvantages and the most important column?
What do I want if you you have to be able to figure out what brings you,
Like the congresswoman talked about joy?
(01:05:09):
What brings you joy?
This man brings me joy?
You know why?
Because he's always making fun making jokes.
Even when I don't want him to always and I said to him very early on in our relationship that day when you don't make me laugh,
it will be time for me to exit this relationship.
(01:05:33):
I've been working on material,
like you don't even understand like,
like I got to keep it fresh.
I can't use the same joke twice.
Like,
do you know how many many times jokes I've had to create because I'm nervous.
I'm like,
man,
if she don't laugh,
like I just want to say,
he made this t shirt,
not me.
(01:05:54):
I just wore it.
Um but you all the next,
the next podcast,
you will understand what that t shirt means,
but you know what we are at a time,
You know what I'm saying?
This has been really,
really fun.
Thank you so much to the people here at uh the Museum of Science.
Thank you.
Thank you to the technical team.
(01:06:14):
Thank you.
Thank you to uh DJ well,
who's in the house and thank you all of you for coming.
Um this is exciting and we uh magic.
It all comes from you.
(01:06:35):
I just show up.
That's true though,
you know,
but but to find more about the trigger project,
please go to www dot tribute one dot com dot com and find out about the other work that we do.
We are so excited and just so blessed to be able to share our story on this platform to help others.
(01:06:56):
That's what we're about.
That's where we come from.
And um it is,
it's it's an honor to be here tonight with the congresswoman.
But it's also in order to be here with you baby because without you,
you know,
we don't have anything.
So I just want to give it up to you just with your brilliant um you don't have to clap for her.
(01:07:21):
Um but um but please listen to us,
please listen to the podcast.
We have one more episode before we end season one and then we'll be back um for season two,
but I want to leave you with this and then um my friend James Monroe is gonna come up and let you all know what's gonna happen next,
(01:07:43):
but remember this,
you're no longer surviving your friday and you've learned that.
Thank you.
Let's keep it going for keith,
Maskell and Maskell,
the trigger project.
Thank you both for being here and sharing your two of my favorite people and we just think everything you're doing is so important.
(01:08:10):
So thank you for letting us host this conversation.
Thank you to Congresswoman Pressley and her entire team for making the time to be here tonight.
Thank you to all of you for joining us and spending your thursday night with us here at the museum.
We're gonna say good night to our virtual friends,
so thank you for tuning in.
This link is gonna stay active,
so make sure you share this conversation,
(01:08:32):
this important conversation with everyone,
you know,
you can continue to watch us online um and for all of you who are joining us in person,
we invite you to a reception,
one level down the DJ is gonna kick it back off,
there's gonna be snacks,
make sure you stick around and talk to these two incredible people,
the triggered project presents,
what does that mean for me?
If I,
if I need help that way and who am I gonna ask?
Who am I gonna talk to and where am I gonna go?
You need to understand what's going on in your community.
You need to understand what it's like to take the bus in your community and what you don't have access to.
There's such a fear of actually trying to face the hardest thing that you've ever had to face because you're not sure what else is going to come with it,
(00:25):
it sort of never goes away,
triggers a buzzword and the kids have picked up on it.
You know the way you're talking to me right now,
you got me mad triggered.
I need to talk to the nurse,
we're really not meant to have lasted as long as we have no,
you were supposed to mess this up a long time ago.
(00:47):
You can't see me but straight this is living a good life.
For more information on the living a triggered life podcast,
go to www dot triggered one.
Good evening everyone and welcome to the Museum of Science boston and our very special live taping of the living and triggered life podcast.
(01:13):
I'm James Monroe,
the producer of adult programs and theater experiences here at the museum and I'm really honored to kick off this incredible evening.
I'm thrilled to be standing here in front of a live in person audience here in Connor's theater.
Yes,
give yourselves a hand.
It's wonderful to have you back with us.
We do not take it for granted Were also live streaming tonight out to a virtual audience who are watching with us on Youtube.
(01:35):
So a huge hello to our digital friends,
thank you for tuning in from afar.
Um Tonight is really special.
We're thrilled to have back with us,
our friends from the trigger project,
we did our first live living,
a triggered life podcast event in the fall and tonight I'm thrilled to have our friends and the co creators and co host of the podcast back keith and Roxanne Maskell um over the past year we've really been able to develop a strong and deep relationship with both of them and it's one of the most important to our team here at the museum.
(02:03):
So we thank them for allowing us to be a very,
very,
very small part of all the incredible work that they're doing across the country.
Were also honored to have with us tonight via virtual livestream,
another very special guest,
Congresswoman,
Ayanna Pressley.
Um she is waiting in the wings to come out onto the quote unquote virtual stage.
(02:23):
Um and I'm gonna let keith and Roxanne formally introduce her though she needs no introduction but I just want to start tonight off with a huge thank you to the congresswoman and her entire team for giving us time tonight and being here and sharing.
It's truly an honor to have you with us and how this is gonna work tonight.
After the conversation with keith and Roxanne and the congresswoman,
we're gonna say good night to congresswoman Pressley and then there's gonna be a Q and A with keith and Roxanne where all of you can submit questions so if you have a question for them at any time,
(02:50):
all you have to do is pull out those smartphones,
whether you're here with us in person or watching at home And go to slide 0.com and enter the code triggered life all one word just as it appears on the screen behind me and then after the formal program here,
if you are with us on site we invite you to a reception one level down in the blue wing,
(03:11):
the DJ will be spinning again and keith and Roxanne will be out there.
They want to chat with you so make sure you stick around and continue the evening with us.
I need to thank our friends in the Low Institute for their ongoing support of the adult programming without them,
we would not be here tonight.
So a huge thank you to everyone at the low institute but now it is my extreme pleasure to welcome out your co host,
(03:31):
my dear friends keith and Roxanne Roxanne project.
More information about the project www dot dot com.
Welcome Welcome!
Welcome to living a trigger like podcast with keith Maskell and we are live right now at the Museum of Science in boston massachusetts,
(04:00):
we are so excited to be back for our second live shout out to James Monroe for being able to put this all together in the technical team here,
you all really have taken such good care of us and we so so appreciate it.
Um but my rocks,
(04:20):
this is exciting and you're looking wonderful tonight by the way,
I got to tell you that,
wow,
this is a good moment,
rocks.
I know,
wait,
you're making me misty,
I'm starting to get emotional.
Okay,
I don't need you to get emotional yet.
We have plenty of time.
No,
we haven't even started,
(04:40):
I'm already getting emotional,
that's okay but we have a really special guest,
very special guest tonight.
We are so honored to have um and I say my congresswoman,
our congresswoman,
Ayanna Pressley in the house tonight.
(05:01):
We want to welcome you,
how are you,
congresswoman?
It is so great to have you.
It's so great to see you.
Um Yes,
yes,
yes.
Yes.
Oh my God,
we are just,
this is just such a blessing to have you um have you here.
(05:21):
But what we usually do is we just do a quick check in just to start out um so you should say how I'm doing and then I'll ask Roxanne and then we'll check in with you really quickly um then we'll tell you why you know we wanted to talk to you and then we'll jump right into the questions how does that sound?
Alright,
beautiful.
Um so um I'm doing okay today,
(05:44):
a little stressed,
which happens when you you know you try to put together a podcast and things like that um you know my step step and repeat didn't come today and so I was a little upset about that but you know what?
I went to my self care,
I said you know what,
this is such a blessing of what's happening,
keith just let that go,
went out and shot some hoops,
(06:05):
felt pretty good about that,
did some meditation um checked in with a friend who um who had just been injured a little bit and stuff so I wanted to make sure that I was um that I was giving some energy to him um and then just kind of settled into uh what was gonna happen this evening and um really just turned around whatever direction that I was this morning,
(06:31):
so I'm feeling blessed right now.
So Rocks!
What's up rocks?
Mm I'm still uh decompressing Mother's Day.
My mama had to make it extra but not special.
I mean that's what happens sometimes,
(06:52):
right?
It's the holidays that bring the worst out in us sometimes when we make an effort to show up and show out and be there for them and then uh you know they just don't know how to manage those emotions.
So I was pretty sick for a couple of days and it was the stress on me and tired trying to do too much and then today I woke up and was like,
(07:16):
it's a new day.
I'm ready.
Ready.
And then I thought about what we were doing tonight and I was like,
I'm really ready.
Very ready because this is the best part of the things that I do all day doing this work.
This is the real work connecting with people.
(07:37):
This is the work giving space to people to talk about what they don't get to talk about if they choose.
So I'm good.
I'm good.
How are you today?
How you doing?
Yeah.
Well,
I actually,
um,
(07:58):
yesterday was a very depleting day.
Um,
there was a vote taken in the in the Senate,
um regarding bodily autonomy and reproductive freedom.
And that was actually a bill that I'm a co lead for.
So that was my legislation.
(08:19):
And you know,
I was just feeling the weight of just a myriad of sort of intersectional legislative oppression and you know,
like I seek to do the work of liberation of black people and all marginalized people but centering black women for a moment given the history of medical apartheid on our bodies,
(08:48):
forced sterilizations,
hysterectomies,
highest maternal morbidity in the country.
And um,
now that we could be in a situation and circumstance of forced birth.
And it just seems that our bodies and the bodies of black women in particular,
(09:10):
um,
are just always being policed criminalized,
vilified,
you know,
uh,
in some way.
And so I felt a real eraser yesterday and today,
you know,
I feel very sitting and uh,
and very centered in large part because I have this to look forward to,
(09:34):
but also because so many people today,
we're speaking life into me and we're offering me affirmation and restoration and you know,
that they expressed gratitude for the fight that I put up and so that felt good.
Yeah,
thank you for that.
And you know,
the reason why we want to talk to you just because like you're always,
(09:57):
you're always just authentic.
I've watched you talk to so many people,
um,
and everybody is important.
That's how that's how it seems.
Like you're just so you're so genuine.
So what's important and you know,
after alive I said to James,
if we could talk to the congresswoman,
I want to talk to her,
you know.
Um,
(10:18):
and for me,
um,
I always felt when seeing you,
um,
just a positive energy,
You don't have to say anything to anybody but your positive energy give life to people,
you know what I'm saying and I felt like at certain point you a little bit more than a reflection of us,
(10:44):
you know,
just like,
no,
like we keep it,
keep it authentic and you never know like yeah,
just saying hi to somebody means a lot to people,
you know what I'm saying.
And so just the fact of being somewhere or being a newbie in uh,
and I love that mug by the way,
(11:07):
love that mug,
love that way,
you know?
Yeah,
just the fact that,
you know,
that happens and I see the effect of you just saying hi to someone and you know,
so that's that's just important for me to have you to have you here as a voice of the people and so but rocks,
(11:35):
you know,
kick it.
Yeah,
I wanted to say um a little bit about why I wanted to speak to you and I don't,
I mean,
you always say you remember,
and I have this little voice inside of me that says,
no you don't all the time,
but you know,
I have to,
like beat that voice down,
but I met you at the commonwealth seminar and this was I don't know how many years ago and every single time that I've seen you after that and you're like,
(12:01):
no,
I know who you are and no matter how many times you say it,
I'm like,
no,
you don't,
you don't know me.
And that's just a little voice inside of me.
And I mean,
you know,
that's what happens to us.
That's part of trauma,
right?
That we don't believe that people really see us and that's why I was so excited about having you here with us besides the podcast is so special to me in my life.
(12:28):
Um there's something about your eyes that I really do believe that I'm seen in the world and there's so many moments of my life where I feel invisible and that's what trauma does because the trauma experiences that I've had uh because I didn't feel protected or I wasn't protected,
(12:55):
made me feel invisible all the time.
And so when I see you and you're like I know who you are,
I'm like really because I felt so invisible throughout my whole life and that's why I wanted to have you here in this special moment with us because I'm always feeling seen no matter how much I wanna say no,
(13:25):
your eyes always tell me yes,
I see you sister.
And I love that about you to the fact that I didn't I don't think I told you this keith.
I really wanted to move in Cambridge so that we could be in her district.
You did,
(13:46):
you did talk to him about that.
You did talk to you about that for sure.
I really thought about it for sure.
Yeah.
First of all I received all of that and and I'll tell you why I remember you and I actually think the last time I thought the last time that we burn each other's proximity was in Cambridge.
(14:09):
But I could be wrong about that.
But that that was my that's what I thought.
But you know my recollection of you has nothing to do with politics.
You're a rare person who when you have asked how I am doing,
I believed you were really asking me and I don't know if you all know that sort of perfunctory way people will ask you that question all the time.
(14:32):
Right.
But you know,
there's some people just in the inflection with which they asked the question you can pull yourself breaking because you know what is coming from like a deeply authentic place and all this sort of can't perfunctory responses you gave the whole day.
It's not going to fly with this person.
(14:52):
So that's actually how I emotionally remember you.
Okay,
every time you sign these questions.
(15:14):
Yes,
yes.
Tell us why you want to be here.
Mm Yeah,
I wanted to be here because um I'm really trying to challenge us,
those of us um who our whole identity has been defined by the resistance and being warriors and all of these things to be as radical and bold about our joy and our healing as we are about the work of resistance.
(15:47):
And I remember my In 2018,
once I was left to Congress,
I had a ceremonial swearing in community because I wanted to make the point that like,
you know,
this is symbiotic,
I'm governing cooperatively and I'm not gonna be the only one to take an oath,
you're gonna take an oath with me and I co authored this pledge and one of this community pledge which 400 people strong Roxbury community college took with me was I will I will inform Joy because Joy is an act of resistance and I've actually amended that now because I think that's part of the problem.
(16:26):
Um,
you know,
folks that you can't pour from an empty cup,
they're still saying do the work of restoration.
You can continue to labor and what and what I'm trying to get folks to give ourselves permission to be unapologetically is just to be,
I,
(16:48):
I mean,
so I don't,
you don't need to,
you know,
when people talk about self care,
you need to do self care so you can keep doing the work.
You know,
everything is about labor utility.
It's not about being all the messages that I got as a child from my mother was about the armor I needed to put on to navigate to negotiate to handle aggression,
(17:11):
microaggressions,
hostilities,
toxicity.
It was all about armor.
Nobody ever talked to me about joy,
nobody ever talked to me about healing.
And so the fact that you created this space and the last thing I'll say about the two of you is that I do believe that Black love is a revolutionary and radical act.
(17:35):
And we know that in that martin and Coretta met in the massive,
she said seven in Roxbury and you know,
many people define her um,
as his wife,
but she was a Liberator in her own right.
She was an architect of this movement and it would not have been birth were it not for their radical Black love.
(17:59):
And so I just wanted to endorse what you two were doing and the space that you've created.
Yes,
thank you so much uh for all that.
And that's one thing that some people don't talk about with this podcast is is about Black love,
right?
And the importance of talking about not just the best part of it,
(18:22):
but the other parts that need work.
And that's one thing that was important to us which started this podcast is me as a survivor.
And how does it affect our relationship?
Right?
How do we figure it out and being triggered?
That's not something that our parents talked to us about either,
right?
How do we figure it out?
And um you know,
(18:43):
I've been lucky just to have this woman,
you know,
stand next to me um and you know pushed me behind and pull me forward sometimes and um if we can help people by telling our story,
then that's exactly what we're gonna do and we will be unapologetic about it.
So thank you with everything that you just said.
(19:04):
Um and but that leads to that leads to the second question is,
you know,
as a survivor,
how is your trauma influenced and affected your work as a public official?
Mhm.
Well,
it influences everything about me and my worldview.
(19:25):
And so in turn how eye movement build,
how I community build how I legislate um you know,
it's almost talking about invisibility.
I think that is the unique dichotomy,
the marginalized existence,
especially for black folks,
especially for black women.
We have this dichotomy of being hyper visible and invisible all at the same time.
(19:50):
So were visible enough to be criminalized and police,
but we're invisible enough to be slowly dying.
Um you know,
given a host of things,
you know,
everything again from the maternal morbidity crisis or the weight of student dead or um you know,
(20:13):
they're not being space spelled for our healing or our justice given the number of us who are survivors of abuse.
You know,
I'm a survivor of a decade of um of childhood sexual abuse and also a survivor of campus sexual assault.
(20:34):
Uh and so I certainly do center survivors justice in my policy word.
And that for me ranges from,
you know,
fighting foreign investment in those social emotional wellness supports to acknowledge what our Children need.
(20:55):
Childhood trauma is growing.
I think it is in the midst of its own pandemic.
You know what they were carrying in their emotional backpacks um as they cross into learning communities pre pandemic.
And it is frightening the increase in anxiety and depression and suicide ideation.
(21:17):
So I do a lot of work legislatively around childhood trauma,
in fact,
that can be the first ever congressional hearing on childhood drama.
Um so those social emotional investments and supports within our learning communities also what our community health centers and then again,
shining a light on the issue using my power of convening and things like a committee hearing.
(21:42):
Um,
also for survivors of big events,
I have like natural disasters,
domestic terrorism things in that way.
And then finally I'll just say surviving family members of homicide victims.
There's a lot of work that I do in that space and we know that one in four black and brown people have lost a loved one to gun violence.
(22:04):
We know for every person that were robbed of,
I mean they weren't lost and say you lost someone,
you were robbed of every level that were robbed of,
Um,
that that impacts a minimum of 10 people.
So we're talking about 120-130,000 new survivors surviving family members of homicide victims every year.
(22:25):
And um,
you know,
we know that trauma manifests in many ways.
Uh,
there's primary trauma,
there's secondary trauma.
And so what I'm,
what I'm fighting for is just investments.
As I said at the Peace Walk on Mother's Day.
You know,
community is possible if we build it.
Peace is possible if we worked for it and healing is possible if we invest in it.
(22:48):
You know,
so as a survivor,
I'm centering survivors justice and all of my work,
whether it's survivors of sexual assault or addressing childhood trauma or natural disasters or disruptive events or whether it's um,
surviving family members of homicide victims,
but I'm also trying to prevent trauma.
(23:11):
So like when I say I'm a survivor,
it's interesting now that I say that and because I'm bald people will think I'm a survivor of cancer,
so I'm having to figure out new bourbon,
so people,
but my father was incarcerated for 14 years,
I think I'm a survivor of mass incarceration.
My mother not at the hands of my father,
but my mother was a survivor of domestic violence,
(23:32):
you know,
of incest and also a rape,
right?
So trauma is inter generational.
So I define myself as a survivor in every way when it comes to trauma,
both primary and secondary.
No,
thank you for that and thank you for sharing and you know,
I honor your piece of healing and I honor the fact that you're a thrive er um you know,
(23:59):
and sometimes we talk about intergenerational trauma,
but sometimes we don't talk about the intergenerational thrive.
Urz that we've become because of that trauma and you are a clear example of that,
so,
no,
thank you for that.
That was that was awesome.
What I like about what you said just now,
what you both said is that it's not enough to remain in the place of surviving,
(24:27):
which is what you say all the time,
right?
It's about thriving,
right?
The trauma that black and brown people have endured over generations has taught us how to survive.
Mhm.
But we need to move into the thriving game and that's what the two of you are talking about primarily is thriving and that is that is part of that healing and that's part of like what we know how to do,
(25:00):
flip the script.
Can I say something about that for a moment?
Listen,
listen respectful of the format and also our time,
but this is this is important.
Policy is my love language and the reason why policy is my love language is because every hurt and harm is one that has been legislated.
(25:25):
It was codified.
So I believe if we can legislate hurt and harm then we can legislate healing,
we can legislate justice,
we can legislate equity.
But how do we do that effectively?
We have to stay in proximity to it because it's only by staying close to it that you understand how intersectional it is,
(25:48):
how complex the new ones and then what I always want to do is then work with those most impacted to develop the best solutions.
The people closest to the pain should be closest to the powerful driving and informing the policy making.
The last thing that I would say on this because you brought up a thriving a couple of weeks ago,
(26:09):
I was meeting with some folks,
someone who had left politics and I said,
what is it like on the other side?
And they said,
I went from a life of obligation to a life of desire and I said,
well that is a privilege,
but one that everyone deserves.
So when I think desire,
(26:31):
I think imagination.
And so as a policymaker,
here's the shift that I was talking with some of my sisters in the work and the birthing uh movement as we're doing maternal justice work.
And they said,
I'm not going to do one more panel to talk about the statistical odds of why black women are more likely to die in childbirth.
Instead.
I'm going to talk about imagine a world where black birthing people feel safe,
(26:56):
sacred and loved.
You see,
But that's why I'm taking time for this because when we're doing this work,
we can perpetuate trauma because culturally we've been told that in order for you to be seen and centered,
you have to relive and weaponize your trauma.
(27:17):
And so you got to do this work as a Liberator and to be a healer.
And you're like,
why am I so heavy?
Because we're not giving ourselves permission for the imagination for the desire for the thriving part.
So let's not sit in the deficit and the data.
(27:38):
Let's sit in the dream,
Right?
That's how we have to organize and legislate.
Right.
Right.
No,
no,
no.
That's that's it.
I'm surprised that people aren't clapping.
I think they forgot they forgot they got mesmerized by words in the language.
Maybe I'm not making it.
No,
(27:58):
no,
no,
no,
no,
no.
You're dropping that Science at the Museum of Science?
You're dropping that,
right?
People ask why are you,
why are you at the Museum of Science like because that's social science,
what we're just talking about social science at its best and we keep saying we're talking about the neurobiology neuroscience of the brain.
(28:22):
Exactly and that's exactly what we just had,
which was awesome.
But um you know we're gonna go we're gonna go move to a different question because the congresswoman answered that one.
So the next question we're gonna get into is um you've often spoken about you know America's growing trauma crisis um and how is the last two years um contributed to that?
(28:48):
Yeah I mean again you know oppression from its intersectional um and we've just been hit by an onslaught of it.
You know it's just it's been unrelenting.
So just our collective loss and grief today we hit the one million mark.
Er I mean it's crazy that this this loss of life has been so normalized for us that you can just see on a little ticker tape on the screen,
(29:16):
you know one million lives and people just sort of keep moving.
You know but we have to keep moving but we can't normalize that kind of loss and suffering.
So we've lost parents and siblings and cousins and teachers and nurses and aunties and grand papa so many of us ever had to say goodbye to loved ones through a screen.
(29:37):
You know I survived the insurrection at my workplace.
We have seen what happens with inaction and inertia insurrection?
I'm upset that it took an insurrection,
a violent white mob erecting nooses on the west lawn of the capitol wearing anti Semitic t shirts and carrying confederate flags,
(30:04):
where people many to realize for the first time that white supremacy is a threat to everyone,
to everyone who calls this country home into our democracy.
So when they put scaffolding up all around the building and now we have to go through metal detectors to go on the floor and all these things.
And people ask me,
do you feel safe for us?
And I'm a black woman in America.
(30:26):
I'm not concerned about the safety of people exclusively at this building.
I don't want to feel safe in this country,
right?
This is,
you know,
we have to destroy white supremacy.
So it's,
you know,
it's the pandemic,
it's an emboldened white supremacy,
anti black asian immigrant sentiment,
(30:53):
islamophobia,
gun violence,
police brutality.
It's been a lot.
So all of that has contributed to our trauma.
And that is why I'm championing the need for trauma informed recovery.
And like I said,
healing is possible if we invest in it and all of my policies center,
survivors of every form of trauma and seek to advance policy that's trauma informed,
(31:16):
we need to have a trauma informed recovery.
You know,
I think that I think you hit it right on right on the head and I think,
you know,
Roxanne,
you see this um you know,
where you work um at BRANDEIS and you know,
I see uh the effects also when I go into schools and I'm talking with,
you know,
(31:36):
with students and um it takes so much for them just to just to show up just to walk through that door.
Um and then have to deal with the anxiety of being around people to learn how to actually be social again.
Um and so many of them have stopped breathing,
(31:57):
so many of them have stopped reading.
And that's the first thing that I say to them as as we do some monologue work is breathe,
breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth because we've been holding our breath for the last two years.
And it is such an important reminder for us,
(32:18):
as you said in the beginning was for us to just be,
but the second part of that is for us to just breathe,
take a moment and just be and breathe and really just take time to let that oxygen through our bodies because it's just been so much that we haven't done right rocks.
(32:42):
I think we don't know how to do it anymore.
Like we're not even cognizant when we're not breathing and I just want to go back because a little bit.
So I was just thinking about in deep thought here about throughout the pandemic.
Um I worked a lot on the front lines and I was thinking about what you were saying about maternal health.
(33:08):
um and some of the other things you were saying.
And I was thinking back to um the pandemic really brought out my ability to say uh and sorry,
I even do this in session,
I swear,
sorry,
apologize,
but to bring out whatever the hell I want to say.
And I come home and I tell keith and I find myself at a maternity rounds and I started saying to doctors and nurses and midwives,
(33:38):
please stop putting in consoles for social workers when there,
when there are primarily black and brown women,
I'm tired,
you're targeting them and I want you to stop.
And sometimes they will get up on me up underneath me because they are like forcing me to go talk to black and brown women and I will say she said no and she has a right to self determine,
(34:05):
leave her alone.
Yeah.
And you know,
like I started like reminiscing all these moments and time of these experiences,
including at BRANDEIS and talking about how my white colleagues are not showing up for my black and brown students and calling them out.
If you're not gonna show up for my students,
(34:27):
don't see them,
I will see all of them if I have to.
And sometimes we need to be able to stand up and just stand up and speak and if we're not breathing,
we're not speaking.
And sometimes we get so um uh distracted by everything that's going on.
(34:53):
We forget that sometimes we're not speaking because we forget how to breathe.
And I've had these moments where I'm like,
I don't care what are y'all gonna do because no one else is gonna show up.
I don't care.
I'm not being disrespectful,
but you will respect the people that look like me.
(35:15):
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
Thank you for that Roxanne.
It's so funny because I feel like sometimes,
you know that Uh you're the clinical play by play person of this podcast.
Kind of like a lead analyst for um for a sports show.
And like it's just so it's just so brilliant.
And I'm like,
how could tom brady get 23 million because you should get like double that for the work that you're doing this podcast.
(35:40):
Like um it's amazing.
But we only have a couple of minutes left.
But um,
I want to make sure to ask,
you know,
ask this question of,
you know,
do you have any advice for survivors who are navigating relationships and and how they show up in the world?
Mm hmm.
You asked me the hardest question three minutes or whatever it is like,
(36:02):
okay.
You know,
it wasn't me.
I do a lot of elected officials to answer the question.
I want to answer the question,
(36:29):
okay.
Something what you did was so important there and I'm sure you do this in your private life as well.
And it's so generous that you all are willing to do this publicly and that is as a partner to hold space for black woman rage because we are talking out of our pain all the time,
(36:57):
right?
We can go to healthcare providers,
they might think we're drug seeking birth.
They don't believe our pain is as bad as it is always being talked out of our pain,
but I want to make it clear,
it's not just by white folks because the burden of white supremacy is.
Black folks will do that to you to always being talked out of our pain and why I chose my husband who I call my black diamond Harris is because we try not to get emotional here about it.
(37:33):
He was the first person who was angry for me after decades of trauma being told to pray it away or shame that was projected onto me because of fractures created in my family when I became the villain and I was the one who was abused because of the fractures are created in my family because it was familial abused one,
(38:05):
there's shame and talking about it because of its intra family.
Um,
and then to when after enduring and overcoming a decade of that and then being raped in college,
you really start thinking,
you know,
I must just have something on my forehead.
I mean I just thought this was,
(38:26):
this was my lot in life,
you know because every,
every corner of my life that I was sent to people that were supposed to care for me and protect me and loved me violated me.
And so and then I did a lot of self sabotage of some good men who wanted to love me because trauma was the third person in in that relationship.
(38:55):
And so then I met my husband who I think might be the first person outside of my mother may she rest in peace and power who saw me fully.
And he was a safe place for me to fall.
He allowed me to be delicate and fragile.
He calls me his warrior in hills,
(39:17):
but that's not what he leads with.
And he got mad for me.
And and I needed that and it made me feel like what happened to me was unacceptable and that it mattered.
And so that which my husband um afforded me that gift is the same gift that I seek to give to everyone and to do that.
(39:46):
Using the power of my platform,
the power of convening the power of the pen and the legislator to say,
you deserve to show up in the world fully authentically unapologetically as you are without fear,
without discrimination,
without violence.
And we are all survivors of something and you deserve to be seen and centered.
(40:11):
So I don't know if that answers any question that it doesn't matter what the question was that it was.
Thank you,
thank you so much.
We're about to wrap up here.
But like everything you said is everything that happened here.
(40:31):
Everything that happened here and that was the one thing that that I'll make a comment that Roxanne had a lot of rage,
right?
I never stifled that rage at all.
And yes,
I was yes,
I was angry for her,
but I allow her to be in the space that she needs to be and let her work,
let her work through that to get to the loving right?
(40:56):
Because that's important,
right?
That's important because we've become a hardened shell.
Sometimes the survivors when we've been hurt and I told her to things I told her one I will never I will never not allow you to be your 100% authentic self right?
Even by her t shirt today too,
I will never as a man get in the way of what you want to do in your life.
(41:20):
There will never ever be a will never be a man,
A man will never step in the way of everything that you want to be.
And two things that I told her,
but we got to wrap up,
thank you so much Congresswoman for being here.
Thank you for just you know,
(41:41):
just being your authentic self and kicking it with us.
We really appreciate your time.
We know you have to go.
So thank you for that heart.
We have the we have the heart back,
we're gonna let you go,
we're gonna continue on but we want to say goodbye,
everybody in the audience,
you can say goodbye,
say goodbye,
thank you.
I'm so jealous,
you got to keep going and being together.
(42:02):
Yes,
thank you,
thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Um,
but I mean,
my goodness,
right,
man,
like,
I'm ready to just walk off the stage,
right?
To do anything else,
but we can't,
we got more to do,
we we got more to do,
but I think that she is fantastic,
just fantastic human being.
(42:23):
Like,
forget being a legislator,
like,
that's great,
you know,
But my God,
she is such a wonderful human being.
And so,
I mean,
but here's what is here,
just,
here's what just happened.
She did what she always does.
She showed up as her authentic self.
Always.
Always.
Right.
And we can't take that for granted,
(42:46):
because that's not something that happens,
right?
That's when people talk about,
when I talk about the congresswoman who I'm talking like,
there's only one to me,
right,
right?
We just we just saw that.
But the one thing that she said that I think that,
you know,
that resonated with me,
of course everything she said,
but the fact that,
um,
it's just reminding me of that,
(43:07):
I've always been angry for you always,
always.
But the thing about it is,
you've always been angry for me and actually,
I've been willing to use my rage for you and fight people,
even though you told me you can't do that.
But you know,
that's that,
y'all listen to podcasts.
You understand that sometimes Bronx,
(43:28):
south Bronx comes out,
you know,
and you know,
one time with someone who got mad,
she was getting mad at or whatever,
someone being crazy and she was doing this motion to somebody and someone said,
you better get you grew.
And I said,
why she ain't mad at me,
facts,
all facts.
So,
(43:48):
you know,
as soon as there was a movement I had,
I had,
I had to step in really quickly,
but Roxanne,
some people ask them questions,
that's wonderful.
I'm ready.
There's some,
some questions.
Let's see,
uh,
let's see what we have.
Um,
and someone asked really quickly,
I'm gonna skip over the first and we'll get back to it.
How do you remain hopeful,
(44:10):
genuinely hopeful?
Um,
in general,
I believe with,
you know,
like being a survivor and things like that.
Do you want to take that?
You want to take it?
I'll say one thing about it and then maybe you'll follow up.
Yeah.
Um,
I have learned to believe that this man unconditionally loves me and he does that in so many different ways,
(44:38):
but it's not just about the doing is about the consistency,
consistency.
Is everything for me because I'm constantly in my head.
Like when you heard me say to the congresswoman about,
I'm always like,
you don't remember me stop playing.
That's the negativity,
the negative voice in my head that tells me about or reminds me about how unworthy I have felt because of the violations.
(45:07):
But this dude,
when he keeps showing up in the same way and keep doing what he does then I know,
but I want to be really clear about something.
God brought him to me when I was ready and I was not ready until I started healing myself and seeking that healing.
(45:35):
There is a real connection between that.
When you start taking care of yourself and you start doing you,
you will see what's in place for you.
He was put in place for me and I was able to see it.
That's how I stay hopeful.
(45:56):
I think,
yeah,
I think for me,
um,
I see hopeful in,
in other people's eyes,
in a lot of ways.
We're doing things with Children and stuff like that.
I see hope in their eyes,
right?
That's what I get,
that's what I get back in a lot of ways.
(46:17):
Um,
but I think it's about belief for me,
you know what I mean,
knowing that other folks in my family have been through this and they were able to do great things,
right?
I'm hopeful because of my mother Connie and everything that she had been through,
(46:42):
but she used her hands for magic when she did people's hands,
people's hair and she used her love of life And extended that and bless people as she did their perm and color,
which has people up and to this day to say your hair,
my hair has never been the same since your mom stopped doing it.
(47:05):
It was 30 years ago.
And so I have that hope.
But I also,
I think it also has something to do with the invasion as well because um,
you know,
my grandmother,
my grandmother used to say,
you know,
we just keep pushing through and like,
(47:28):
I don't know,
our people have been through so much and we've created so much.
It's hard not to not just be selfish to think about myself,
but think about the ancestors that came before that fought for me to be here.
So yes,
being my feelings for a second,
but I got work to do.
And so that that helps me in terms of in terms of hope.
(47:51):
Beautiful.
Thanks Rox.
Um,
but let's get into,
let's get into another question here.
Um,
and uh,
why is it important for conversations around trauma and mental health important for science institutions to amplify?
That's a good question.
(48:12):
Good question.
Right?
I can start real quick cause I know you're gonna jump in and be brilliant.
But I think it goes back to what you said about um,
understanding and expanding people's minds about what science is,
right,
behavioral science.
Right?
And so for me that's what I thought about it.
(48:33):
Like the fact that James Moreau is doing this type of program.
You shout out to James Monroe around as well that's trying to expand expand museums minds and also folks other folks that have science museums their mind about how can we diversify the people that come here?
(48:54):
But how can we also diversify the voices in science?
Right?
Because they also had another podcast here that was that was of color scientists right?
We don't we don't see that.
So it's important that institutions like this start to think differently about how to use art right?
(49:17):
And how to tie art and science together to make it.
So it's not as stuffy as it used to be.
It's not as privileged as it used to be and that we are welcomed into a space like this to have these conversations.
It's incredibly it's incredibly important And you know um we're gonna be doing a panel coming up with a museum believe conference and we're gonna have this conversation across all the museums in the U.
(49:49):
S.
Thanks to James and it's not just stuffy.
I mean I'm gonna speak from my you know I'm considered a social scientist right?
What I do and we have all these ideas about therapist especially black and brown communities but if you take it from being a social scientist it makes a little bit more sense about why the Museum of Science and being here is so important and critical and realistically um medical models and science has been um saturated in white supremacy.
(50:29):
and that has not included us.
But what it has done is um,
identified us as deficit,
a deficit,
you know,
as deficit and that has been the historical context and so doing something like this,
(50:49):
it sort of provides information,
different conversation,
different communities.
It's almost like welcome to something different that includes you that we want you here,
right?
It's like that welcoming that a lot of our museums in boston,
let's keep it real.
(51:09):
Have not sort of felt motivated to do that.
And so I think that this brings to light that we can heal that we've,
you know,
um re sort of defining trauma that,
you know,
a lot of people sometimes are like you're a therapist.
(51:29):
I'm like,
yeah.
And I swear in therapy because I'm okay with that because I feel like it's important for me to be authentic.
And if you tell me something that I think is crazy that you've normalized,
then I want to start swearing because I'm mad.
I'm really mad and I want to change that for you and I want to change that perspective,
(51:54):
right?
That's what we're bringing.
We're changing perspectives here in this place that we wouldn't have been welcome to.
That's real.
Right,
Right?
I mean I definitely coming here as a child.
I never knew they had a theater.
Well I didn't grow up here,
so I'm not gonna speak that I had no idea.
(52:16):
And some people said even the last live there like,
wow,
I didn't even know it was like a magic door.
They had no idea that the door the door,
you never know what it was a child.
You never like,
you're in the blue wing and you're playing around or whatever you never like.
I wonder what,
I wonder what you know.
Right behind that door.
Right.
I just did my mother tell me not to touch anything.
That's right.
Don't touch nothing.
(52:36):
Right?
Because of course you get right.
I always say it all the time.
You know,
I'm west indian.
I was trained.
I wasn't raised,
right?
We don't clean sanitized.
Right?
I mean,
I'm just saying right before you get it before you walk in and here's what it is.
So I don't want you to touch something.
I don't want to talk nobody.
(52:57):
I don't want you to smile.
I don't want to do anything.
But who am I had you do anything besides that?
You got problems here.
Like problems.
Right.
So,
I mean that might have been part of it.
But that's a,
that's a great question.
But it's always interesting when we get to the question and answer part,
right?
Because I feel like folks that have listened to our podcast,
they don't ask those questions.
(53:20):
They hide.
It's very interesting that people hi.
I'm sorry.
But if I listen to Jack in the muppets,
I'm gonna have a question,
I would have,
I would have questions.
Questions.
I know you don't have any questions.
But even with how we met and things like that,
Like,
I expect people just to ask questions,
right?
The other thing that doesn't happen,
which is unbelievable is that people don't follow us on,
(53:40):
I g I don't know what that's about.
I have no idea.
And some people don't think we're legit because,
you know,
we have like 40 followers.
Oh,
I mean,
we don't have that.
We don't have that.
I mean,
you know,
I'm not a social media kind of person.
I don't really put a lot of value into that.
(54:01):
You know what I put value into the last time we did this podcast,
the people that came and talked to me and taught and spoke their truth.
The people who said,
oh my God,
thank you for you can clap my God,
thank you for helping me and talking to me and and then I run into them,
or they run into you and they say,
(54:21):
I remember your wife,
she talked to me.
Oh my God,
she was so right.
That's what I care about social media.
Like I'm happy about it in the sense,
because we reach a lot of communities,
a lot of people.
But beyond that,
those moments that we have with people are the men that come up to you and disclose,
(54:43):
And they never have before.
That's what matters.
No question.
No question.
I'm good.
You wanna you wanna be 40?
I'm okay with that because every single person matters to me.
Right.
Right.
You know,
I wasn't serious about that.
Right?
Oh no,
I didn't know.
Okay.
(55:03):
Because I just went on like,
I mean,
I thought you were Stephen a smith for a second,
but let me just stop that.
But uh here's a question.
Do you have any suggestions on how to bring up mental health conversations at your school as a student middle and high school?
Good question.
I mean,
(55:23):
I think here's the thing,
first of all,
um stay away from jargon,
right?
Language is really important.
Young people,
everybody understands what it's like to have certain experiences and when we welcome people.
I mean,
one of the things that you've done really well is storytelling,
right?
(55:44):
That this is part of the work that you do with the monologue,
right?
You get people sort of speaking their narratives their story,
we call that narrative therapy in my world in black and brown communities.
We call that stories,
right?
And passing the oral history.
And when you sort of um bring those um indigenous ways of communicating and being with one another,
(56:07):
because that's what we're doing in the podcast,
right?
We're talking we're talking to people,
we're talking to each other,
we're sharing it's all about telling stories.
And if you just normalize it as something very simple and don't worry about the jargon,
people are going to speak whatever they need to be spoken.
People just want to feel invited.
(56:28):
We just need to invite people.
It's simplistic.
Sometimes we don't invite people because we want to get caught up in all these bullshit about why we talk to people,
we don't talk to people we wanna isolate,
oh,
I don't like you or this or that.
But I have been known,
especially in some of my jobs,
(56:48):
I work with a lot of West indians and they have,
they very much want to look at you a certain way.
And so I'm like this,
you're still staring at me.
Yes.
And if you're still staring at me after I meet your eyeballs,
(57:09):
I'm like this,
oh,
you are looking at me or the West,
the West indian scout,
that is that they look like this and sometimes that's right.
And when you speak to them and you love on them,
they love you back.
No question.
Yes,
but you have to break through some of these moments.
(57:30):
Yes.
Yes.
Right,
So,
so thank you for jumping on that.
I think,
I think it's being comfortable number one with just having the conversation where you're talking to a teacher or whatever and just expressing how you feel.
I think it's important bringing up the conversation.
There's so many people,
there's so many other students that are having the same type of thoughts and feelings as a student that we don't think like that,
(57:57):
that as a student,
we don't think everybody,
everybody else in the room is having anxiety everybody else is having having issue with mental health in school.
And I think it's important to understand that and start normalizing the conversation with your friends with how you feel,
right?
Because I think that's important to do.
But I think it's also important to try to figure out also the tools,
(58:20):
right?
How to breathe,
how to meditate quietly,
right?
Whether you need to tap,
you know,
sometimes the place and play with something in your hand and be honest with yourself first.
And that will really help with the help with the conversation.
We do a lot of that.
I mean my work,
(58:40):
we do a lot of that around group therapy and a lot of the students,
they're like,
oh,
no,
no,
no,
I don't want to sit in a group.
A lot of I hear a lot of people say that,
but the value of group therapy is that you find out you are not alone in the first session and that in itself can be healing and therapeutic.
And we don't think about it that way because we don't want to expose ourselves.
(59:03):
But if we don't expose ourselves or we don't show up,
then what we're doing is we're isolating and isolation is extremely harmful when you're already struggling and we know how to do isolation really well and that is hurting us.
Yes,
Yes,
yes,
yes,
Yes,
yes,
Thank you.
Let's jump into this.
(59:24):
We're gonna do these rapid fire.
Okay,
because we have about,
we have about five minutes left,
telling yourself that,
Right?
No.
Yeah.
Anyway,
so the next,
the next question uh comes from another person and they here's a good that's a good question too.
How do you conceptualize um Codependency or trauma bonding and support each other,
(59:49):
our clients through that.
That's a that's a deep one.
How do you conceptualize you want to talk about the trauma bonding?
Because we trauma bounded,
right?
Our trauma kids.
Yes,
Yes.
So I will say this really well,
do this quickly.
Um that's the one thing that we always talk about when we first met and things like that are trauma kids bonded,
(01:00:11):
right?
And so that was real for us for our first little part of a little part of our part of our relationship,
but then we started to realize that that was not going to be enough,
right?
We couldn't we couldn't we couldn't we couldn't survive on that and that if we we needed to be the adults as well,
(01:00:36):
had that bond,
We knew we had that.
But how could we grow together our trauma kids grew together because we started to do our individual work.
And that made that made a huge difference in you started first,
but that made a huge difference in terms of us not just having our trauma kids run the relationship,
but to have the growing adults control the relationship,
(01:01:00):
right?
And set the Children down exactly.
And set the Children down like legitimately we had to be like,
oh wait,
sorry,
that's little roxy.
That's not me.
No.
Right,
sorry,
my bad.
Because that's important that we take care of our trauma kids inside of us and sometimes we have to talk to them for them to to sit down,
right?
Because oftentimes what happens is when things get hard,
(01:01:22):
especially for me as a survivor or whatever else.
When my trauma kid is running things,
I got problems.
But regardless me as a man is accountable.
Yes.
So that's why I need to tell him to sit down.
Yes.
And that is not that is not that is not always that is not always easy.
Um because we don't know how to we haven't learned,
(01:01:46):
right?
So,
you know,
like,
you know,
I like this,
we learned certain things from our people,
our families and relationships we're seeing and I use learned on purpose because I want to keep the hope alive that we can oops that we can unlearn it right?
Unlearning that concept makes it accessible for us.
(01:02:08):
We can do this.
I just want to say something.
I just wanna say one line about the co dependency.
Uh that is a term that in my mind is about how we overcompensate unnecessarily because we're trying to avoid something and usually the avoidance is some some version of not wanting to be rejected,
(01:02:31):
but what we're really doing is rejecting self,
Am I making sense about that?
Okay that's where that co dependency comes from and a lot of times co dependency is related to people that have addictions that are partners.
So I just yeah we were fast pace in this.
(01:02:54):
No question.
Thank you.
Roxanne like brilliant.
Five seconds.
Like you're incredible.
All right.
So here's another here's another question really quick seat really quickly.
Um This is not a question but Roxanne as a fellow social worker.
I just vibe with you so much.
You had me at Mother's Day being extra.
(01:03:14):
Not in a good way and this is more of a comment.
And I also follow you guys the way I want I want to make sure that I want to make sure to get that one in a way.
But okay here's another one.
How do you learn ways to embrace and work through feelings and emotion after trauma and relationships?
(01:03:38):
How do you who what?
Okay how do you learn ways to embrace and work through feelings and emotions after trauma in relationships.
And you have 30 seconds.
Go listen I just got trained E.
M.
D.
R.
Go look it up look it up.
It is the way for black and brown people specifically because we experience racialized trauma every day.
(01:04:04):
Every minute every second.
Okay and so while we're well we're doing racialized trauma and experiencing all of this then we're gonna have all these other traumas happen at the same time.
Nobody can handle that,
right?
Tink.
I got you.
All right?
Here's the next one.
So here's another one.
Um,
I know forgiveness is more about you than others,
(01:04:24):
but how do you take the next step to forgive,
forgive others who have hurt you?
So,
I'm gonna make the assumption that they continue to hurt you.
I'm making that assumption in that question,
which would mean to me that we need to pause and what and and reevaluating.
(01:04:47):
What is that?
What is this connection really about right here?
Why do I need this connection?
What are the benefits?
What are the disadvantages and the most important column?
What do I want if you you have to be able to figure out what brings you,
Like the congresswoman talked about joy?
(01:05:09):
What brings you joy?
This man brings me joy?
You know why?
Because he's always making fun making jokes.
Even when I don't want him to always and I said to him very early on in our relationship that day when you don't make me laugh,
it will be time for me to exit this relationship.
(01:05:33):
I've been working on material,
like you don't even understand like,
like I got to keep it fresh.
I can't use the same joke twice.
Like,
do you know how many many times jokes I've had to create because I'm nervous.
I'm like,
man,
if she don't laugh,
like I just want to say,
he made this t shirt,
not me.
(01:05:54):
I just wore it.
Um but you all the next,
the next podcast,
you will understand what that t shirt means,
but you know what we are at a time,
You know what I'm saying?
This has been really,
really fun.
Thank you so much to the people here at uh the Museum of Science.
Thank you.
Thank you to the technical team.
(01:06:14):
Thank you.
Thank you to uh DJ well,
who's in the house and thank you all of you for coming.
Um this is exciting and we uh magic.
It all comes from you.
(01:06:35):
I just show up.
That's true though,
you know,
but but to find more about the trigger project,
please go to www dot tribute one dot com dot com and find out about the other work that we do.
We are so excited and just so blessed to be able to share our story on this platform to help others.
(01:06:56):
That's what we're about.
That's where we come from.
And um it is,
it's it's an honor to be here tonight with the congresswoman.
But it's also in order to be here with you baby because without you,
you know,
we don't have anything.
So I just want to give it up to you just with your brilliant um you don't have to clap for her.
(01:07:21):
Um but um but please listen to us,
please listen to the podcast.
We have one more episode before we end season one and then we'll be back um for season two,
but I want to leave you with this and then um my friend James Monroe is gonna come up and let you all know what's gonna happen next,
(01:07:43):
but remember this,
you're no longer surviving your friday and you've learned that.
Thank you.
Let's keep it going for keith,
Maskell and Maskell,
the trigger project.
Thank you both for being here and sharing your two of my favorite people and we just think everything you're doing is so important.
(01:08:10):
So thank you for letting us host this conversation.
Thank you to Congresswoman Pressley and her entire team for making the time to be here tonight.
Thank you to all of you for joining us and spending your thursday night with us here at the museum.
We're gonna say good night to our virtual friends,
so thank you for tuning in.
This link is gonna stay active,
so make sure you share this conversation,
(01:08:32):
this important conversation with everyone,
you know,
you can continue to watch us online um and for all of you who are joining us in person,
we invite you to a reception,
one level down the DJ is gonna kick it back off,
there's gonna be snacks,
make sure you stick around and talk to these two incredible people,
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