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January 3, 2023 27 mins

Keith and Roxann chop it up about Manhood, and  Roxann ask Keith why he has not cheated on her during their long time relationship.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to living a triggered life podcast.

(00:02):
My name is keith Maskell.
My name is Roxanne and Roxanne's how are you by the way,
how you doing Fabulous,
fabulous.
That's really great to hear.
Um what are we talking about today?
I was thinking that we talked about how you made it through this relationship and have not cheated as of yet because you get a lot of your male counterparts asking you if you with the same girl and they're like damn you are.

(00:38):
And so I think as we think about trauma experiences and so on,
what has kept you connected?
Not wandering in anyway,
You know,
you think that's a cool topic um are you gonna talk about that as well or is there some things I need to know mm I mean if you want me to I think that it's more important as we continue to have these conversations in general,

(01:14):
in our lives with other people about masculinity and manhood and defining manhood because some people men,
some women define manhood in these terms of wandering eyes and other wandering body parts,

(01:36):
right?
No,
I mean,
I think that's something that's another maybe another topic for another day to talk about and something I've been thinking about is you know,
how did we how do we develop our kind of definition of manhood experience?
So that means like,
I would talk about it,
you would talk about it,

(01:57):
do I actually have a right to develop a definition of manhood?
Well people do.
Yeah,
I know that that doesn't mean that they should.
Well I think it's I think it's just something that happens.
I think that's something that happens with the roles,
you know that we see and the words that we hear that speak people speak and what we,
you know,

(02:17):
that helps define some of that.
Whether that's media tv.
I think people around you,
but I think I just want to be clear for our listeners.
I think when females decide they have a right to define a man's manhood,
I think that has more to do with what they expect from a male counterpart.

(02:45):
And let's just be clear.
This is not just gender.
You know,
this should be a gender neutral topic but for this because this is our living triggered lives that might actually be a good topic at some point.
But anyway um yeah it's just you got to be careful with that when it comes to women because it becomes about expectations what they experience in their life with their dads or not or other men and that's we can't do that because then you start putting that,

(03:23):
you apply it to every man.
Well that's what that's what exactly has happened.
And that's a problem that happened.
I think I think we're confused about I think in general were confused about what what what manhood is is about Right,
you know and doing this work with,
you know,
the one man show triggered David,

(03:44):
David David that triggered one dot com.
Um there's always this this this topic that comes up about manhood and about,
you know,
what does it mean?
All kind of stuff.
So we'll get into that later.
Um So that's all.

(04:05):
I think it's,
I think it's interesting that you're,
that you're asking me.
Um I think it's an interesting topic for our listeners.
Well,
I think,
I mean,
I think it just,
I mean,
I think just in general,
um you know,
just not being comfortable with a lot of different people.
I think it has kind of kept me in a certain way.
Um I don't think that I don't think that.

(04:29):
Um I think about it like,
oh man,
like,
wow,
I could I could do something with her,
like,
like yeah,
I could get that.
No,
like I just,
I just never kind of,
I just never kind of thought about that.
I mean,
I think that I've had other people in my family to kind of think like that and they kind of thought enough for probably me and everybody else.

(04:55):
So I think that that kind of turned me off,
but I think being definitely being a survivor.
Um and now a thriving for,
you know,
like that definitely that definitely had an impact.
Wait,
what do you mean that turned me off and they've thought about it enough,
What does,
what does,
what,
how does other people's behaviors impact what you do or don't do.

(05:19):
Well,
I I think,
I think that um I think that that I've just watched kind of some men,
men around me have really difficult relationships with women um and kind of at some point it just got complicated and I did see some folks cheat and have multiple women and stuff like that and it just seemed like it was just too much like it was just too much,

(05:42):
it was just too extra,
you know what I mean?
Like I just I just I just didn't think it was right?
What do you think it fulfilled for them?
Those men that you witnessed this is growing up you're talking?
Yeah,
I mean,
I don't know what this,
I don't know what their story,
I don't know what their story was,
but it definitely feel,

(06:03):
you know,
like you said probably,
I mean when people talk about it like when you have multiple women and things like that,
you're trying to fill the void,
right?
You're trying to get um maybe to feel good or there's certain expectations that you have of a woman and and things like that and you're trying to piece it together.
Like you have a woman that you like and whatever,
but she only you know only is her strength,

(06:26):
maybe only in one department.
And so then you have,
you have another female who kind of fills in the gaps for what the other person,
you know,
whatever you feel that they're not doing or they don't have in their personality or whatever.
Something like that.
That's I mean it's crazy that we're even talking about it because No,
but it's important.
So what do you think that creates in the sense of womanhood?

(06:51):
How are they defining womanhood?
Who the man?
Yeah,
I don't think there's any I don't think there's I have no idea,
like,
I don't know if there's a I don't know if there's a regard for it.
I have no,
like I have no I have no idea about how,

(07:12):
you know,
I can make it up an actor so I can put myself in somebody's shoes and like make it up.
But yeah,
but I have I have no I have no idea about that,
but I think that seeing that and seeing some of these complicated relationships,
I was like,
I don't know if that's I don't know if that's something that I want to do,

(07:32):
you know what I mean?
And even and even thinking,
you know,
my parents uh relationship was complicated and stuff like that and that probably had something to do with it as well,
people around me and you know,
also,
you know,
some of my parents,
I mean,
I had a pretty good relationship for the most part,
but there was some bumps in the road and you know,
then it kinda went left.
So I think that that was I think in my mind I thought about it and I was like,

(07:58):
that's just not for me she's not for me.
Are you able to talk about what went left in your parents because our witnessing our parents relationship growing up does sort of formulate something in their mind,
whether it be I'm not going to go that route or I'm going that route because that's what right?

(08:23):
I mean,
I think,
I think,
I don't know what my parents stories were,
I know part of what my mom's story was,
I'm not sure what my father's story was,
so to speak,
but you know,
there was some some infidelity going both ways,
you know what I mean?
At some point in the relationship,
like both of your parents?
Well that's what I hear anyway When I witnessed one I heard about so you know what I mean?

(08:49):
And so um I think that was just uh that was just,
you know,
that was something that just didn't sit well with me and you know,
my mom,
my grandmother and things like that and stuff,
they always talked about,
you know,
being respectful to women and things and um I also just felt like I wanted always to try to be respectful to myself and you know,
you know,

(09:09):
and that was and that was kind of the big that was the big thing I think,
and that was always something that I felt like,
you know,
like I was giving up something too,
and I think because of the fact that I had been abused and things like that,
I was a little more protective of myself because it was difficult at times for me to be intimate,

(09:30):
were you afraid you were going to be abused again by a female if you sort of allowed yourself to be intimate without,
You know it wasn't something that it wasn't something that I thought about um that you might be abused woman again.
No it wasn't something that wasn't something I really thought about but I think I was guarded.

(09:54):
I think I was a lot more guarded than what I thought I was but I also had value too myself around it.
Did you learn to do that?
That's not usual.
Yeah but that's called resilience and we all have resilience but that's not that's not a common thing that thought process that concept of valuing self.

(10:19):
I mean I mean it was I think also I mean it was valuing self but also I was just incredibly embarrassed and incredibly uncomfortable,
you know what I mean?
I mean I lived in you know very much is mo household,
so to speak and you know my other people that lived in my house you know would make fun of me and stuff like that you know my member so to speak because I didn't look like you know the other two people that were in my house,

(10:44):
you know what I'm saying?
So like I was like really shy about stuff too because I was like I was just wasn't comfortable,
I wasn't sure,
you know what I mean?
Because if I listened to them,
like,
I wouldn't do anything for the rest of my life,
you know what I'm saying?
Lock me away,
intimacy.
Yeah,
just lock me away.
Like,
ain't no one gonna like you,
you know what I mean?
Let's just call it what it is that's body shaming.

(11:06):
Oh,
there's no question about it for no reason.
I mean,
there's no no apparent reason.
So that had something to do with it when people shame other people in that way.
There's a reason.
It's just not towards the victim,
but it's sort of like,
I feel better,
I feel powerful or whatever,
whatever,
whatever it was,
right,

(11:26):
whatever it was.
But I mean,
but that that had something that had something to do with it.
I mean,
I almost got I got tricked into my first experience in a lot of ways.
I always talk about it talking about it because I was I was dating this girl,
she's really nice dating this girl.
And um there was a friend who knew both of us and was like,

(11:47):
telling each other that like we wanted to have sex with each other and that's kind of how it happened because I may not have initiated at all,
you know what I mean?
Like kissing whatever,
but I may not initiate it,
I'm not sure.
So the friend told both of you that each of you wanted to have sex with the other one.
Yeah.
What do you mean?

(12:07):
What does kind of mean when we were dating and you were allowed to date in your house?
Um Yeah,
there were no restrictions on dating restrictions.
And what do you mean by restrictions in any way?
Of course,
of course,
there were some,
of course there were some restrictions,
of course,

(12:27):
who,
what,
where,
when or why?
That's all we need,
who,
what,
where,
when and why,
who was the person blah blah blah and they weren't coming to the house.
That was a big thing.
Nobody came to the house was like fort Knox.
There's only certain people,
there's people that have been in my life for 35 years who have never been to my father's house,
you know what I mean?

(12:47):
Like,
like legitimately,
you know what I mean,
Like never best friends,
hardly ever been to my father's house.
So let me just make sure because I think this is really important between our two stories.
So you've never you've never defined or described the traumatic experiences you've had as sexual relations.

(13:19):
No,
they're just abuse trauma abuse.
Yeah,
I've never I've never uh I just never thought about,
I've never thought about them in that way.
Um and I think about it is because I mean for those people haven't listened before,
this is living a triggered life podcast with keith Maskell and I'm a survivor of abuse and I was abused by a female and a male.

(13:47):
So you're talking about even because most of time I've heard a lot a lot of men have been talking about how they didn't realize that or even called it abuse when there was an older woman who was who was taking advantage of you,
what did they call it?
Sexual relations,
sexual relations,
you know,
that's why I'm asking,

(14:09):
that's why I'm asking you that question because there's a there's a concept of theory,
a belief that in this country that when you're a certain age as a young boy you gotta sell your right right by a certain age.
And then we had all these visuals and we knew it was true that somebody an elder in the family would be taking a young man to as his first experience would be of a prostitute.

(14:38):
Yeah,
I mean there was all this messaging,
I don't know how true it was,
no question.
But yeah,
yeah.
No,
no,
no.
And I think I think I think as it was kind of happening or kind of sorted,
it seemed like that,
but then then it was as as as the interaction was happening between me and right and so and so I think it kind of started that way,

(15:04):
you know feeling like oh this is maybe something sexual like hey,
you know,
you know and then it made a left turn,
so you had sex.
So we we're sorry,
we got off track.
So you had actual sexual relations with this person.
You were dating in high school.
That was your first sexual experience intercourse once this person.

(15:34):
How did you experience it after these?
Not so great experiences that you had prior as a kid?
It was it was all right.
It was okay.
I mean,
you kind of,
you know,
you kind of find your you kind of find your way,
you find your way through it,
you know?

(15:55):
Um And I think the one thing about it is is the person I was wasn't I wasn't assertive,
assertive person and that way,
and I think it kind of made it and made a difference because sometimes when people were or female or females were overly assertive that sometimes I would freeze.

(16:17):
So what you're talking about is um fight or flight.
Right?
Right.
Yeah,
that would kind of,
that would kind of happen in some ways.
Um But I was I mean,
I think,
I think for me,
like I said early age,
you know,
from from seeing the stuff that happened kind of with my parents and other people,

(16:40):
I I kind of just was like,
I gotta make sure that I'm not in that situation because also too it's just always been too much work.
You know what I'm saying?
Like trying to have 23 women and all that's too much.
It's just I've always made that joke,
like that's just too much work,
like that's a lot.
You know what I'm saying,
You know what I mean?
Like who that's a lot and it's very interesting too because people always just assumed that that I've always had,

(17:07):
you know,
an abundance and abundance of women.
It's interesting to me.
Yes.
Yes.
I did not.
No,
no,
no I didn't,
I didn't really capitalize on that.
And I think also too if things didn't feel right,

(17:29):
it just wasn't gonna happen.
I couldn't,
I wouldn't be aroused if it wasn't right or it didn't feel right.
It wasn't gonna happen.
No way did not work.
And I think also,
I mean I think I don't know,
I mean I'm not I'm not upset about it that that would happen.
It's kind of how it is and I think it's kept I think it kept me safe to be honest with you.

(17:51):
It really kept me out of it kept me out of it kept me out of trouble to be honest because I didn't really know all that much anyway.
So I think it's kept me out of trouble.
You know?
And I think the other thing that I the only thing that I understood was that if I think with some of the connections that I did have with some some of some some females and relationships and things and and things you know kind of got intense in some ways that if like I did try and like cheat and things like that.

(18:25):
I knew exactly what would happen the other person,
you know what I mean?
Like people would have like,
you know,
most times people have strong connections,
same thing with you.
People have strong connections with us,
you know what I mean?
And so if we're we're intimate with someone in some ways like there's a sit like that serious connection that doesn't happen with everybody,
right?
Would you,
would you agree?
And then you know when people get attached and also to I'm a really caring person and stuff like that,

(18:51):
I'm compassionate and things like that.
So are these all the reasons that you're telling the listening audience why you didn't cheat on me?
You ain't got nothing to do with,
you know,
I ain't gonna do with you,
you're right.
You know what I'm saying?
You know,
I you know,
I ain't got nothing to do with you,
but it's all me,
you know what I'm saying?
I mean you my boo and everything but but no,

(19:17):
but I mean I think,
I think I think the biggest thing is and it's not like there hasn't been temptation,
it's not like the women haven't come at me and stuff like that.
I mean it's crazy when women come at you and then they meet your wife and they're like,
wow,
I really like you really like your wife,
she's really nice,
wow um wow I like her,
you know stuff like it's it's it's crazy but yeah,

(19:39):
I mean it's it's been a lot of stuff and also too,
I'm an actor,
I'm an actor,
I'm on set,
there's there's all kinds of things that can happen and I think um trying to keep the boundaries which is really important,
trying to keep the boundaries in check also is something that's really helping,
you know what I mean?
And I think um being healthier,

(20:01):
it's a lot easier,
it's a lot easier being healthy,
you know,
when I wasn't healthy,
when I was a lot easier,
it's a lot easier having boundaries and check period point not responding because you have a lot of women that know me because I can flirt uh sort of,
shall I say lustful about what you're wearing?

(20:24):
Okay,
Okay.
Yeah,
but I mean,
I think,
I think that I think I,
you know,
I'm a flirt for sure,
there's no question about that,
I think at certain times that I can be a flow that I can be a flirt from time to time and I think when I was,
I think when I was not as when I was not as healthy,
I think I'm a little health here now that I think that they would be,

(20:47):
you know,
a little bit of throwing energy back and forth and stuff like that,
so let's just do a quick bullet point list of what are the things that got you that you think contributed to you being healthy,
you got to,
did you write something down to use your phone or you're saying that the bullet part because I don't know what I just said.

(21:08):
So you don't know what you just said.
All right.
So one is Making a decision early on that.
That's not the kind of life you wanted to is understanding that you are worthy and have value just as much as anybody else.
# 33 is that you were very clear about your body and in tune with your body to know that you didn't even like when you were not aroused you or you wasn't feeling that you wouldn't get aroused.

(21:47):
So that's a real strong connection between mind and body.
Because you're sort of saying you're sort of shutting down your body and saying this is not right.
We're not going there four.
Number four,
you did have the experience of seeing partial successful happy relationships in your life and it's also a cultural family value.

(22:17):
Mhm.
Okay.
So you agree with all of those that number five,
there might be a number five that was part of four was like four B I guess five B five is some version of and you might have to help me with this one.
Some version of having been in a healthy connected relationship has worked for you so much because you feel safe.

(22:44):
You feel comfortable that it really has worked into how resilient you are to deal with when women are basically sort of throwing themselves at you?
Yeah,
I mean,
I think like I said,
I think the fact that I'm healthier definitely has me.

(23:09):
Um it's a lot easier,
but I think I understand this is the one thing I think I understand did I just understand there's always going to be natural synergy between people and I can have synergy with somebody and that's all it is.
I can have synergy and a connection with somebody and that's all it is and it's not something that I have to act on or think about,

(23:32):
right,
and I think that I've learned that from being an actor,
right?
I can be on set with somebody and whatever and like we can have chemistry and its people on screen like oh my God,
like whoa,
right,
and I'll do the scene and get up and leave like okay,
we're good.
You know what I'm saying?
Even and sometimes two sometimes you do,

(23:52):
you have a connection with somebody and whatever and you know,
it's it's synergy and then you just have to you just really have to figure it out.
But I'm clear the one thing that I've been clear about as well is that I value this relationship so much and have learned so much from this relationship and people,
you know people saying like,
oh what would you do that to Roxanne?

(24:13):
I was like bump Roxanne,
I wouldn't do that to myself,
shoot,
what's wrong with you,
You know what I mean?
And I think I wouldn't want to put all that in jeopardy.
You know what I mean?
For a little something,
something like that's like,
Nah,
you know what I mean?
I'd rather wait for you to be honest.

(24:33):
Keings 100 like,
because that's,
that's,
that's,
that's where I feel most comfortable,
so to speak is with you.
You know what I mean?
I mean?
I could try to go and feel comfortable other places and whatever,
but I think the fact that through my experiences,
through the abuse and things like that,
like is it really that big a deal?

(24:55):
You know,
People Act like it's such a big deal to be able to get a woman or whatever,
but like let's keep them 100.
Is it really that hard to do?
Is that is really that hard to find somebody to have sex with or whatever.
It's not that it's really not that difficult to do you're talking about just having relations.
Yeah,
I'm just saying like the hardest thing to do is the hardest thing to do is to find someone to have that you have a real connection with and have a relationship.

(25:21):
That's the hardest thing to do.
Like if you're the man,
that's,
that's what you're rolling with not having 15,000 women and everything else because it doesn't like having another notch on your belt?
Really doesn't mean anything right?
Really?
Honestly,
you know,
Lamar Odom with 2000 women?
Like?
Really?
But you know what I'm saying,
but what else is there?

(25:43):
What else?
You know what else is there?
You know?
But I mean,
we don't know what his story is and and stuff like that,
I'm really happy that he's healthy again and stuff like that,
and hopefully being able to tell his story to be able to help others to help some other people um but yeah,
just the notches,
I think that's just part of the the toxic masculinity that just that just put me to sent me in another direction,

(26:07):
to be perfectly honest with you,
That's not how you want it to be.
No,
I just I just didn't,
you know,
I'm not perfect,
you know,
I mean,
I'm not a perfect person by no means,
you know what I'm saying?
Um but I think that's kind of what has kind of kept me out of,
I mean kind of get me out of trouble in a lot of ways,

(26:28):
because I mean,
even coming up and even going to girls at the church,
I mean,
let's be real,
We grew up,
we grew up in the age where for sure,
you know,
we watched HIV right,
lucky,
lucky.
Oh my God,
lucky,
lucky,
that's true.
I mean,

(26:48):
or being able to get somebody pregnant,
like really like lucky,
I didn't,
you know,
I didn't know too much,
you know,
just tell me when okay,
I guess,
alright,
you're like,
you know,
like that stuff is crazy but you've been listening to living a triggered like podcast with keith Maskell and Roxanne.

(27:11):
Masco.
Roxanne.
I mean I think this was great today.
I do.
What do you want to talk about next though?
What are we gonna talk about next time?
Did you have a thought?
You do?
I guess everybody have to wait.
Of course.
Okay.
Just want to make sure.
Yeah,
thank you guys for listening.

(27:31):
Of course we have pre production meetings.
Rocks are trying to act like we don't talk about this,
but we do.
Um but thank you guys for listening,
remember um you're no longer surviving.
You're thriving and you burned that.
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