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August 19, 2020 24 mins

Keith and Roxann give  the 411 of how they met, plus they share how their trauma was showing out in their lives.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Living with triggered knife podcast with keith Maskell and we're excited to be back.
There is um spend some height people have been waiting here to hear what we have to say this podcast.
Um we will be talking about our relationship and what it's like to be in a relationship to be triggered,

(00:21):
how we deal with it.
And we'll be interviewing guests doing all kind of other really fun things,
you know the purposes is for us to share our story as survivors in a relationship,
to be able to help others,
sometimes give advice,
possibly some people to help us out.
Lord knows we need it and kind of go from there.
So we were thinking about what we're gonna talk about today,

(00:41):
we planned out of course all these topics and stuff like that,
what we're going to talk about and we're like where are we going to start?
And so I had the idea that we should start with how we met right right.
And so we started to have a little bit of debate about it and I figured well we might as well just do it during the podcast cause that kind of makes more sense.

(01:02):
So what did you say to me when I talked about that I asked you if you're going to tell the real story and I stopped right then I was like we gotta do this on air,
what do you mean the real story?
What do you what are you trying to say?
We have some multiple versions of the real story but there's only being you correct this sometimes parts that we don't share for censored in the censored version and an uncensored version or like a PG 13 and like a G version basically.

(01:32):
Okay.
Is that for your protection of mine or for both?
I know I don't think it's for our protection at all.
I think we're protecting others that that may have been involved.
My goodness.
But in regards to this podcast and the purpose of it,
I think it's worthy to go into it a little bit deeper and talk about exactly what happened and how we met and the circumstances around that,

(02:00):
which really play an interesting role in being triggered and what it's like to be triggered and how other people in our space trigger us and how do we manage that?
And that's always the issue right.
How do we manage our narrative?
We talk about this all the time,
narrative is important,
whose narrative are we living?

(02:20):
We're living our narrative and how do we know we're living our narrative and have we've done any work to understand what our narrative is and being triggered to me sometimes means you're not living your narrative man,
you're really smart.
I just want to say thanks.
You know,
I think you're right about that.

(02:41):
So we're gonna start maybe we should start talking about just before we met each other and kind of where we were in our lives.
Right?
You want me to start I don't care if I was a damn mess.
No,
let me just say I was gonna be,
I'm just gonna put out there 100%.
I was,
I was a mess.
Um I was depressed most definitely.

(03:03):
It was really difficult for me to kind of be in relationships in some ways.
I was just really insecure with myself,
in relationships with women or in relationships in general,
like family and friends.
Like who are we talking about?
Good question.
I think both.
I think I was,
you know,
my parents are divorced.
I wasn't sure who to trust in a lot of ways.

(03:24):
It really was just unsafe in all aspects.
Um I just um Right.
Yeah,
it's true.
Yeah.
Now I'm remembering,
I just,
I went to school at u mass Amherst for a little while and then um that kind of just didn't work out just because I was just,
I was so I was just struggling.
I was just so depressed.
And so um I came home and um I enrolled and home is uh boston massachusetts,

(03:48):
even though I don't sound like it.
Um but I came home and I went back to school.
I'm sorry boston massachusetts.
Like I said,
like I said,
boston massachusetts,
like I said,
are we telling the real story or a version boston massachusetts,
sir?
Oh,
I'm sorry,
excuse me.
You know what I'm saying?
Like Cambridge massachusetts home of Patrick ewing NBA Hall of Famer um Stones shoutouts like,

(04:16):
okay.
Um Yes,
I'm sorry.
So Cambridge massachusetts was where I was living at the time going,
I went back to school after having a terrible experience,
but a really good experience over U mass Amherst and I was just trying to get back on my feet.
I was working for the city.
It was a locker room attendant.
Uh,
and also I was a custodian.

(04:38):
I had like I had this hookup job,
I had this dope jobs,
it's a custodian.
I cleaned 11 classroom at a school and they paid me a lot of money.
It was really great.
And then one way I was dealing with my,
one way I was dealing with my trauma was that I was going around trying to find prince records,
which was really incredible needs to say,
I have a great shout out to Prince folks.

(04:58):
Um,
and oh no question,
no,
that's the only way to do it.
You know what I mean,
vinyl and just making sure everybody knows what you're talking about,
right?
But in a nutshell,
I was depressed.
My mom had moved to florida.
My dad was,
was doing his own thing and stuff like that,
trying to just live his life and you know,

(05:19):
I didn't know what to do for the most part,
I was just kind of kind of winging it for the most part and just trying to just stay above water.
Try to clean my sneakers,
make sure those,
those are clean.
We'll talk about that a little bit later episode about trauma and material things and trauma and sneakers and sneaker culture and so that was what was going on with me.

(05:39):
I was a mess but I was trying to come back,
I was trying to keep fighting through and getting up every day with dark circles under my eyes and everything and playing ball and just trying to survive pretty much for the moment.
But I did feel good in some small ways,
the fact that you know my haircut was tight,
you know what I mean?
Um because those things are important,

(06:00):
my mother being a hairdresser and things like that,
I mean cutting hair,
those small things made me feel pretty good in some ways and I got a call from a family friend asking if I wanted to meet somebody but I'll let you talk about yourself,
talk about yourself,
can we start using,
I gotta say something,
can we start using the new york accent because Roxanne is from new york and that's one reason why I really liked her because she had this,

(06:26):
she had that little bit of a new york accent.
That was the only reason um we won't get into that right now right,
so like you said I'm from new york and I would have cut my legs and my arms off to get out of my house that's real talk and so instead of doing that I decided to go to college when I had the opportunity.

(06:48):
And I chose the first college I applied to just to get out,
ended up in Rhode island.
And I met keith I think in my junior year it was my junior year and the way I met keith was I was in a sorority that was loco and I happened to invite old sores to come down and I met a few old sores and one of those sores have been to live in Cambridge and she seemed pretty cool and you know we were just have fun,

(07:20):
she was about fun and you know nonstop fun and you know just we had a good time.
So she invited me to come up and visit her in Cambridge.
And I remember I said to her yeah maybe I will because I'm in this bad relationship right now and I can't see my way out of it and I just,

(07:40):
I need to meet men,
I need to get out of this relationship.
Damn!
I mean how forward thinking is that?
I just want to meet men.
Hey I've always been clear about certain things at you at all.
So she said cool come on up I'll invite some of my friends and you know we could meet some different men.
So I started coming up here meeting some different men and I'm sure eventually we'll talk about what that experience was like how many men did you meet by the way?

(08:09):
1233 oh three.
That's not that's not even that's before you met me or including me.
I think including you,
wow that's not that much.
It's not that many.
Well men identified for me.
I met a lot of men based on my Sora and that she knew but identified for me was like three.

(08:31):
Mhm.
Okay.
I'm not gonna should we unpack that?
Yeah.
And here we are back at are we gonna tell the real story?
Are we gonna tell the pretend story?
Because the real story has some impact and speaks to that triggered life?
Right.
There's no question about it.
Yeah,
I think so.

(08:52):
No question about it.
I think so.
So what how we want to describe that piece?
Um I think that I think that we should um I think we should be as real as we can be as as long as we're remaining respectful,
you know,
two people in the process and that's fine with me.
I mean they're mad at me.
Like I did something but you are the golden child for that person still,

(09:15):
even though I didn't do anything.
All I did was get up with you.
But Okay.
Yeah.
I mean we you know,
we can we can we can we can talk in a in general as well as as we need to.
You know what I mean?
There's certain details that aren't necessarily important for some folks but some other things are Yeah,
I mean we just stick to.
Of course,
no question.
So what's important but it's important to say that we're saying that Roxanne what's important to say is that you know the person that that that hooked us up or whatever was a family was a family friend,

(09:45):
right?
And it was interesting because you know um I grew up vision of course you know um but we're trained right?
Were not raised,
were trained,
you know whatever your parents tell you is law like you don't you don't question that you know say keith keith the sky is blue then I think the sky is blue and I have no reason to think for myself because I was told by my people trained that the sky was blue.

(10:10):
So here we are with friends of family,
right?
We have people who have titles in the family and things like that and we're,
it was like regardless of what would happen,
they were your family.
So you would just allow it to happen.
So let's unpack this title piece because I want to make sure people understand this the way we describe titles,

(10:35):
Family.
So basically we have people who have who without earning have the right to a title.
Mother,
father,
brother,
sister,
cousin,
what have you.
And because they have that title,
they are given certain privileges in our lives without any real parameters or boundaries.

(10:59):
And then there's a lot of different experiences that people have.
I know people can relate where people utilize those titles to violate boundaries and there was no sort of community norm within that family unit about what's okay and what's not okay and that's where things go left,
right,
so part of what I've learned and keith and I have talked about it how people who have titles in our families still have to earn our trust and our love and in order to maintain that it means that they also have to respect,

(11:36):
have respect for boundaries,
we don't talk about that in family,
that's not set up and a lot of us end up being hurt.
Well I mean I think I mean you know we think about you know our our parents and and things like that like you know like like well they made us so you know we're always always want to give respect back and and and and give up that love and and and do whatever we can to help them and and and and and you know what I mean,

(12:04):
because we wouldn't be here because of that,
that's that's just a normal thought like that's just how you know what I'm saying,
like that's just how it is but I guess and I know I got to that point and I loved my parents,
there's no question about that,
you know what I mean?
But I did get to the point where I had to see them as people and that was difficult,
But I had to in terms of,

(12:27):
it was part of the process of me beginning and trying to deal with the reality of the abuse in some ways and their role,
write,
write and write and direct,
you know,
in their role in their role in it,
you know,
like,
yeah,

(12:47):
there's no,
there's no question about that.
And also in the,
in the role of of how they're,
you know,
their baggage and their trauma and things that they had to deal with as they were coming up and how those things if not dealt with and some of them were not dealt with then how that affected me and what the things that I learned,
right?

(13:07):
And that was about the titles and the family and things like that because Roxanne would be like,
wait a minute.
Like this person in your family,
like you don't understand that they're they're just throwing snow in your face right now.
I'm like,
well it's my cousin.
So like,
it's not that big of a deal.
She'd be like,
um she's like,
no,
like your face is really cold and you're crying and like you're like,

(13:32):
we have fallen apart in the corner in the fetal position,
but it doesn't matter because they're your cousins,
right?
Exactly,
right.
And so like that was,
I mean that was that was,
that was a big realization for me to kind of see people for who they were like,
yes,
that's my cousin.
But these are the things that these are the issues that my cousin has,
and these are the good things that they have,

(13:53):
and kind of putting them in the context well,
and I just want to be clear about something setting boundaries and allowing people to earn your love and your trust doesn't mean that you don't love them.
It doesn't mean that they're not important.
All it means is that you wanted to feel safe in that relationship,
in that there should be some some ground rules about safety.

(14:18):
Yeah.
I mean,
but I mean,
that's I mean,
that's that's a that's a hard that.
But still,
let's let's really talk about that.
That's a difficult that's a difficult situation,
you know,
as a person who's 19 and 20 trying to figure it out.
Well,
it's a difficult concept when you don't have any other family and you don't you can't see beyond or outside the context of your family or where you grew up.

(14:41):
And don't get me wrong.
I get that.
But I got very clear,
very quickly based on the violations that were happening to me that this is wrong.
This shouldn't be happening.
You shouldn't be doing this to me and how come nobody's saying anything and how come you're not stopping,
and,

(15:01):
you know,
like,
and it didn't stop.
So,
you know,
it's the basic foundation of where you and I are coming from.
And so that's kind of where we're coming from,
and then we're meeting somewhere in the middle and we meet with somebody who doesn't have boundaries,
right?
And if they do,

(15:21):
they're not showing them.
Yeah,
I mean,
I think that was I mean,
I think honestly that was that was something that you were clear about when I met you was around those type of those type of bound boundaries and things like that.
I think you were you were um really mature in that way.
Around the around the boundaries,
right?
And for family and things,
I I had no I had none.

(15:43):
You know,
there were no there were no boundaries.
You know,
there were no boundaries because of just the way that sometimes my family function away.
There were boundaries.
But then again,
there there there wasn't,
you know,
there was other traumatic things that I still am looking for,
the looking for the answers of the story that happened,
but because of some of the trauma that was in my family,
you know,

(16:03):
there weren't some boundaries at certain points,
you know?
And I didn't I kind of knew about it,
but I didn't know about it.
I don't think I really wanted to truly pay attention to it.
So,
here's the thing,
how would you have known what to do about it?
Oh,
that's the thing,
right?
How would you know what to do it?
You wouldn't know there's no I mean,
who I mean,
still because you think we think about,

(16:23):
right,
in terms of being silent and that was the other thing too,
who was I going to talk to?
My who was I going to talk about the problems who's going to talk about the problems with my parents and the divorce and the backstory or whatever because you know in our communities you know this thing the silence thing is is incredible,
you know what I mean?
And I always talk about powerful,
right silent,
don't tell people your business blah blah blah whatever.

(16:45):
And of course growing up vision even it's just like just another layer of it,
don't be telling people my business here what like my parents didn't even want like teachers from the school to call my house for anything,
like it's kind of funny like they the teacher called and said hi can I speak on Mr Maskell please?
You know you'd be looking at me and and the teacher would call and say you know what keith is doing really well today I just wanted to call you and make sure that you knew that okay.

(17:13):
And my father would be like why they calling my house like no,
no,
no.
They called for something good bro,
no,
no,
no,
don't call my house.
Everybody was a bill collector.
Everybody family,
we were responsible,
we were the gatekeepers,
right?
We were the gatekeepers,
You answer the phone?
Yes,
good evening or good morning,
yes.
Who's calling please?

(17:34):
Like that's how we were we were called to answer the phone and my mother would be or my dad would be aware,
just looking at us and then we say the name out loud and then nine times out of 10 would be like they give you that,
I don't want to talk to them.
So,
so so that silence I had no one had,
Well I did have my one of my I had one of my best friends and things like that.

(17:57):
Um you know my boy,
you know,
D f my boy,
D f big shoutout DF um I did have some folks that I could talk to to a certain extent,
but how would they guide you?
Because they were having exactly the same experience,
nobody to talk to,
triggered fools trying to roll through and trying to give you,

(18:18):
we couldn't give each other advice,
but what could we do?
We could just Exactly,
trying to get,
you know,
like there's a hole,
there's a hole I hear you.
He was a good support for you.
But there's a whole thing about how you're supposed to be in the community and outside the house or in the house as a black boy.

(18:41):
Right,
Right.
That whole thing of what you mean,
you said,
you ain't sad.
What you crying?
Oh my God.
Right,
so let's just so how was he going to guide you?
Right?
You know,
it wasn't you couldn't,
there was no,
Right?
So there was no guidance around boundaries,
there's no guidance about how to deal with anything about how to deal with it or how to be sad or whatever,

(19:01):
right?
Because you know,
or it wasn't happening,
it was happening,
but nobody was going to acknowledge it,
but it was all about buddy boy,
lazy boy sleeping all the time,
the boy's lazy,
no,
no,
I wasn't lazy,
I was depressed and I was miserable because I had been abused and just like nobody was paying attention to what was happening to me at all,

(19:23):
you know what I'm saying?
I shouldn't say at all because I did have some folks that did try to kind of in their own way reach out to me,
but I didn't trust me,
but I didn't know who was who,
you know what I mean?
I mean,
I have a you know,
there was some good,
just have some really great folks in my family and because of the silence number one,
but number two of not knowing who was who and who to trust,
I just,
you know,
I closed up,

(19:44):
you know,
I closed up for the most part or until I got on the basketball court and I was just trying to I was going on Russell Westbrook,
we're way off topic,
we're supposed to be talking about how we met.
No,
no,
no,
I understand,
but I think it's important,
but I think this is important and thank you for trying to bring us back,
but I think this is important because this also gives a context to where we were,

(20:05):
right?
It does give a context of where we were coming from,
but I also think that some of what we're talking about also deserves to be unpacked ID in a different time.
No question,
because my experience was really about trying to get out of my house and get away from the hurt and the pain,
and then trying to figure out how I managed the world without any guidance.

(20:29):
Right,
Right.
And those folks who just just tuned in whatever this is,
living a triggered life podcast with keith Maskell and Roxanne and we're talking about how we met,
so to speak,
we've kind of digressed in some ways,
talking about family and boundaries and things like that,
which we'll get into a little bit more,
but I think it's important that we that we did talk some more about that,

(20:52):
but let's get back,
like you said,
let's get back into where we met our show,
pretty much we're trying to do about a half an hour.
Um and so I know we don't have too much time left for this,
and we'll have the part two and continue to talk about it.
Um so so this individual that introduced us was living a life that was very different from mine and I wasn't even aware,

(21:15):
and it was just to be fair,
it was a sort of a sexual freedom that I was unaware of.
Well,
but let's but let's be honest,
it was another another survivor,
actually.
Yes,
yes,
it was.
But at the time for me it was a type of sexual freedom,
just because that's what it looked like to me.

(21:36):
So we met through this person and we had a lot of conversations about this person's lack of boundaries or what we thought this person was attempting to do was to basically have sex with us.
Right?
Uh yeah,
I don't think you're gonna jump in.

(21:59):
I don't think you're going to jump in like that like that because we haven't got to that part yet.
No,
we haven't we don't need to go deeper in it.
But when we talk about being triggered,
Well,
that was our sense,
we don't know if that was true,
but that was just that's how we felt.
That's just the sense that that that we but then further along,
there was some clear attempts to set something up of a sexual nature that was more than A and B.

(22:26):
C.
D and E.
Right?
Wasn't involved in that.
I know K wasn't involved.
I'm just I'm just setting the platform for how you and I getting together the the way that started and the individual that was dead smack in between us and then we're gonna have to unpack what happened and all of that.

(22:52):
But that's the reel reel,
like that's like that's just so like,
it's just so much,
right?
Both of us are survivors.
The person that's hooking this up is a survivor and,
you know,
having a sexual freedom and um it's all playing out like it's all playing like it's all playing out all at once and we are both recovering.

(23:14):
We're in the dead smack beginning of our recovery,
meeting each other.
Oh yeah,
Yeah.
I don't I don't think.
Yeah,
right.
I I think I was in the beginning state.
I think I was I was in the beginning stages.
Well,
I know I was I mean,
that's one thing I think we shared.

(23:35):
We were both lost.
Oh yeah,
no question about that.
There's no there's no question about that.
But you know what?
But let me,
but you know what,
Roxanne,
I'm gonna stop you right here.
I'm gonna stop you right here because we're we're just about out of time for this session.
You've been listening to the living a triggered life podcast.
We keep Masco talking about what it's like to be in a relationship as to survivors of abuse.

(24:02):
You know,
we're here to we're here to help folks.
Um we're here to heal.
We're here to share to share.
Eventually.
We'll be taking calls and all the rest of that stuff,
but we'll be checking you all out again really soon and you'll hear part two to how we met,
how we met.
So thank you all for listening.

(24:22):
Um Well,
we'll see you all next time and remember we're no longer surviving.
Were thriving.
God bless.
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