July 16, 2025 • 47 mins
Before becoming a fulfilled life coach, Denita Bremer led a shame-filled life with a hot husband, three very healthy kids, as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints near Denver, Colorado. She learned a holistic approach to healing and success, which she shares on her podcast, If I’m So Blessed, Why Can’t I Feel Good? She supports adult LDS daughters of emotionally immature parents with trauma-informed coaching.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
I'm Megan Skidmore. For 2 1/2 years I have been
talking about evolving faith journeys.
I started to tire of the heaviness of this focus.
I had the clear message come through.
It is time for Beyond the Shadowof Doubt podcast to evolve into
Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt podcast.
With the same vulnerability and unapologetic authenticity.
(00:31):
I will be focusing on the joy inthis journey, the life and the
living that comes on the other side of maybe on the other side
of what's possible. I want to talk about claiming
spiritual sovereignty and becoming your own captain of
your vessel. Let's celebrate releasing but no
longer aligns for you and connecting with your higher
power and honor. Expanding your energy field to
(00:52):
make room for all things new. Hey everyone, welcome to today's
episode of Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt.
(01:14):
So, so grateful to have my friend Danita with me today.
We have this has been in the works for a little while, so I'm
really grateful that we made it happen.
So welcome. Yeah.
Thanks, Megan. You are so welcome.
I'm, I'm excited for my guests, our guests to get to know you a
(01:38):
little better and your background and a little bit more
about your faith journey and what that's been like and how
you have made me evolved the role.
Questions and doubts have playedin that and the ways in which
(01:58):
you've acclaimed your spiritual autonomy and how that's brought
you joy. So we'll just jump right in.
If you can, take a minute and just share a little bit about
you with our guests. Yeah, I'm Danita Bremer.
I I grew up, I was born in San Diego, but I grew up in Eastern
Washington in a tiny little towncalled Oroville.
(02:21):
Probably no one will know where that is because it's so small.
Went to the rest of my schoolingthere, zero to 18.
Went to university at the University of Washington in
Seattle. Met my husband there.
Who did? I did not know that.
That's so cool. See, I'm learning new things
(02:42):
about you. Yeah, and we have three kids
which are all almost grown. My youngest is about to turn 17
in a couple months. My middle child just graduated
from high school. She's going to see you Boulder
in the fall. And my oldest chose to go to
university in the UK and she's travelled around the world a
(03:03):
bit. They're all home at the moment.
So that is nice for a mother heart.
And yeah, my mom was not a member of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints. My dad was.
But he was inactive my entire life and still is and can.
You just explain what you mean by an active for those that are
(03:24):
listening that are not of the LDS faith.
Background. He never went to church.
He did not live by the standardsof the church.
He basically was like somebody who had never been a member, but
his name was still and is still on the records of the church as
a member of the church. So, and to give a little
(03:47):
context, when I was born, my momwas 17 and my dad was 20.
So they were very, very young. Yes, they were.
Needed a lot of help financiallygrowing up.
It was always tight and I came into the church and am a member
of the church because of my grandparents.
OK. Who would take my sister and I
(04:10):
to church on Sundays? But I kind of lived in the
duality of grandma and grandpa believed this and lived this
way, a very kind of conservativeChristian lifestyle.
But mom and dad very much did not were into drugs and alcohol.
And so I lived both of those realities in my life.
(04:36):
When I was a teenager, I steppedaway from the church primarily
because I had started dating. And according to the standards
of the church, we're not supposed to date, at least when
I was a teenager, not supposed to date until you're 16.
And I was 14 when I started dating.
And my grandparents were very judgmental about that.
(04:57):
And so instead of reconciling that myself, which I don't think
most teenagers would have the ability to do, I just decided
I'm not going to go to church because it's too hard to be
around them. And they're very judgmental.
When I went to university, I hadknown for a while, like it was
about 5 or 6 years that I wasn'tattending church, wasn't really
(05:20):
living the standards. And I had known for a while that
I wanted to go back, but it was kind of hard, right?
Like after it was, it was too hard in a tiny little town with
a very tiny congregation to go back there because I thought
everyone would judge me. How many years had passed again?
Well, when I started going back,it was like 5, five and a half,
(05:43):
something like that. I tried to go back to church a
couple times my freshman year ofcollege, and I showed up at this
like, you know, singles wards. I didn't really know.
Like, I grew up in this tiny little town with a little
branch, and then I went to school in a big city.
(06:03):
And so I didn't understand that there were multiple
congregations that would meet inone building.
I thought somebody would come upto me and shake my hand and tell
me where to go next. And they didn't.
And so I would be like, OK, I'llcome back in a few months,
right? But I did eventually make my way
back to church and have been very, very active and involved
(06:26):
my entire adult life since then.So that yeah, that's a little
bit about. Fascinating.
I didn't know that about you. I didn't know that about your
parents and grandparents. And this was in Washington state
that you grew up. Yes.
And you're now, No, not in Washington state anymore.
Now, so I, I married that boy I met freshman year of college.
(06:50):
He was not a member of the church.
So that was the whole thing. And we lived in the Bay Area for
very briefly, less than three years.
And then we moved to the Denver area, where we are now.
We've been here for almost 19 years.
That's where we raised our family.
And yeah, we love it here. That's great.
(07:11):
That's that's really great. So you have the unique position
of some of my guests that I've spoken with, they have had
grandparents or other extended family that may be introduced
other faiths whether regardless of whether they grew up in an I
(07:31):
do interview a lot of folks fromthe LDS faith background, but
there are plenty of others that are not.
But so usually the combination is 1 faith as well as another
faith. But you have this unique
perspective of essentially the same religion, but you saw
different ways of it being observed.
(07:55):
We could say in in real time by people who were important to
you, that you we could say tell me if I'm wrong, looked up to
and loved and. Yeah, and and even listen to.
(08:15):
So you, you talked about your teenage years.
Sounds very teenagery and I loveit.
Tell me about a little bit more in depth about your faith
journey, why you decided you wanted to begin to come back.
Yeah, 5 plus years later. Well, first of all, personality
(08:39):
wise, I think I am a person who my personality lends itself very
well to having some kind of moral standard, some kind of
moral compass. And I think looking back, I
think I was attracted to that. I'm also an oldest daughter.
So there's sort of that, that sense of like responsibility and
(09:03):
doing the right thing. But I would say looking back,
even from a young age, because Istarted going to church with my
grandparents when I was 6, technically I'm a convert
because most of the members of our church that grow up in the
church are baptized at the age of eight.
I was 9. So if you are baptized beyond
the age of eight, you're considered like a convert, which
(09:25):
is, you know, how do I explain that?
I think you did fine. It just means that you're you're
considered to have converted to the faith rather than being born
into the LDS religion. Yeah, so I think before my
baptism I can look back and kindof see how I was attracted to a
(09:48):
religion, a belief system. So I think that's one factor.
The second thing kind of goes back to an experience I had when
I was 7 or 8 years old. I lived on my grandparents
property, so my grandparents had20 acres.
They built a house there and my mom and dad, my dad had lost his
(10:11):
job. When I was 6.
They went to live with my grandparents and they put kind
of a mobile home trailer on the property.
It was supposed to be temporary.It was temporary, but we lived
there a couple of years and during the summers I was like my
grandmother's little shadow and I would just putter around with
her. She did a lot of gardening, a
(10:32):
lot of kind of household projects.
She was retired but newly retired.
And this one day was very, very hot, but no wind.
And so she decided to go spray some weeds.
She wanted to spray some weeds, so she had this jug that she
would put the weed killer in that had a screw top with a hose
(10:55):
that she could spray. And she would put this jug, I
think it was like a 2 gallon jug, so pretty large jug, into a
wagon. And she would pull the wagon
around the property and spray. The weeds.
And it must have been the first time of the summer that she was
spraying weeds because we couldn't find the jug.
We could find the wagon, we could find the the top that
(11:15):
screwed into the jug. She had the weed killer spray
stuff, but we couldn't find the actual jug.
And we looked they had my grandpa had a shop like a wood
shop. They had a garage, they had a
carport, they had a shed, they had a barn that all these
different places where it might be.
(11:36):
And grandma and I went to all these places looking for this
jug and she gave up. She was frustrated and she said
I'm going to go back to the house and make some lunch.
And me being this like, I don't know, I guess I would call
myself like a sweet innocent child again.
I was 7 or 8 years old, really wanted to help her.
(11:58):
So I decided that I was going tosay a prayer and see if I guess
my thought was like God would answer my prayer and show me
where this jug was. And that's exactly what
happened. I, I told my grandma, I said,
Grandma, I'll be in in just a minute.
And I went around the side of the house to a little spot of
(12:18):
shade and I folded my arms and Ibowed my head and I said a
prayer that was something like Heavenly Father, I really want
to help grandma, Please show me where this jug is.
Amen. Something like that was very
short. Very.
Sweet. I immediately felt like I should
go back to this shed. This little shed was probably my
(12:39):
guess is like 6 by 8 feet. Something like that was a small
building and the door was open and I there was it was full of
all kinds of building materials and yard things.
I'm pretty sure there was like apush lawn mower in there and I
just was scanning from starting up my right side over to my left
(13:01):
side. And when I got to my left side,
kind of looking at the back leftcorner of the shed, something
inside of my body, it was not a thought.
It was like a magnet pulling me toward that corner.
And I just knew I was like, it'sback there.
I couldn't see it, but I climbedover the the lawnmower and I got
(13:22):
back to this back corner and there was like a thin sheet of
like a sheet of metal, kind of like a tin roof type of
material. And I pulled it back and there
sat this plastic jug with cobwebs all over it.
And I just, I knew that that waswhat grandma was looking for.
And I pulled it out and I carefully climbed back out and I
(13:42):
ran up to the house and she was coming out of the door and I
said, look what I found. And she was like in awe.
She was like, where did you findit?
It was in the shed. I never told her that I said a
prayer and that like it manifest, like the Spirit, like
manifested itself to me. And so I think in that moment
(14:06):
and with that experience, I, it was kind of confirmed to my soul
that God was real, that he knew me, that he answered my prayers.
And so later on, when I decided to stop going to church because
I felt judged, I literally was stepping away from the church,
not from God. And so my testimony, my belief
(14:30):
in a God, in a higher power never wavered.
But it was complicated because Iwas like, my grandparents don't
like me right now. They don't agree with what I'm
doing. They're judgmental.
I don't want to be around that. So I really was consciously
choosing to not be around them, which included going to church
on Sunday. And I think the whole time, the
(14:53):
five to six years that I wasn't attending church inside of me, I
was like, I should be at church.I should be at church.
And I think I honestly wanted anoption that didn't include going
to church with my grandparents and that just in the small town
I was in, that wasn't an option.And so when I went to college, I
(15:13):
thought, oh, now, now I can go. Grandma and grandpa won't be
there. It'll be like a fresh start.
But the really the whole time I,I had a sense that I wanted to
be there, that God wanted me there, That, that that was my
place. That was like in line with who I
was. Yeah.
(15:35):
That's that's a beautiful story.And you said you were 8 or 9.
I don't remember exactly how oldI was, I think I was 7 or 8.
OK, so you had this will say thebeginnings of a foundation of
your own relationship with the divine at A at a pretty early
(15:56):
age. You talked about in your teenage
years how you you essentially took your power back for
whatever reasons, right? I won't put them into your mouth
for you, but you knew what aligned for you when it came to
navigating those teenage years and the feelings that
(16:16):
accompanied those and what you did want to feel and didn't want
to feel like and interest. I was interested to note that
you you found the jug, but you you kept kind of the process to
yourself. And I'm coming from a place of
that's interesting, that's curious to me that you didn't
share it. And you know, you were young,
(16:37):
right? You were probably still trying
to make sense of it yourself to some extent.
Tell me if I'm wrong. I didn't even think to share it.
You didn't even think to share that.
That's fair. So can you speak to this idea
of, you know, when you realize that what you actually believe,
(17:00):
what you actually feel on the inside your, your inner being is
different than maybe what's being handed to you or passed
down to you? And it's not quite meshing
meeting your needs and and you're so you're you're claiming
(17:23):
your own way. Can you speak to that process
for you? And, and my guess is that it can
has continued, didn't just happen in your younger years and
in your teenage years. Yeah.
The way I think of it is that weall have kind of a spirit or a
(17:46):
higher self, but we also have this sort of human self, right?
And I would say now I think I felt a lot of guilt starting to
date. And, you know, like boys, my
parents, my aunts and uncles didnot have a great track record
(18:07):
with this, right? Like my parents were not married
ever. They had three kids together.
I have aunts and uncles who accidentally got pregnant, like
things like that. And so I, I think my
grandparents were legitimately concerned, right, that I had
this influence of my parents who, who got married very young.
(18:27):
It really complicated their lives.
And I think they wanted more andbetter for me.
And, you know, coming from theirperspective, it was like, you
know, you don't have sex until you're married.
But we can kind of see where this is going, right?
You're starting to date when you're 14.
Like, what are the odds you're going to not have sex until
(18:47):
you're married? I, I do think that they cared
for me and wanted what was best,but how that presented in the
moment was judgement. And I felt a lot of guilt.
And I think part of that was like, I kind of knew, like I
wasn't dumb, right? I knew that if I wanted to live
(19:09):
the teachings that I was being involved in and, you know, going
to church every week, that I really shouldn't be dating at
14. But also I had gone to my
parents and talked to them aboutit and they were like, well, go
out on a date once or twice. If you don't like the guy, then
just stop. And it seemed so simple.
And, and so the fact that my grandparents were like, we know
(19:31):
you're dating that boy. And they were so their, their
emotions around it were so strong.
It was a little confusing to me.Like I'm getting one message
from my parents, another one from my grandparents.
And the the easy thing, I think,was to ignore my grandparents
and to just do what I wanted to do, do right, having attention
(19:55):
from a boy. This boy was actually three
years older than me at the time.I can't even imagine what my
parents were thinking letting medate him.
But that is really attractive. Like, that's flattering
attention, right? And so it was much easier for me
to ignore my grandparents and call them old.
Crotchety old people, right thanit was for me to really listen
(20:18):
to what might have been. Kind of my higher self.
Now I'm so thankful for it because I really feel like many,
many people who grow up with a religion being taught from their
parents and grandparents, they don't have true agency the way I
experienced agency. Like my parents literally could
(20:40):
not care less if I went to church and my grandparents were
like, we'd love you to come. It was my choice every single
week. And then when I stopped going to
church, it was like I was experiencing more of the side of
what my parents were living. And like, they would literally
invite me. Like, hey, get high with us.
Hey, drink with us. And I had that choice, right?
(21:04):
And so I feel like from a very young age, I really had true
agency because it wasn't, it didn't feel like pressure.
I mean, sometimes it felt a little bit like pressure, but it
was more like these two invitations and that I got to
choose which way to live. Yeah, at the time it, I mean, I
(21:26):
think I was just doing whatever felt right in the moment,
really. But now that I have some
hindsight and you know, I'm 45 year old adult, I find it such a
gift that that agency was really, really mine.
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Yeah. So let's if if you're
(22:10):
comfortable with this, let's Fast forward then to more
present day Danita. And can you speak to the
challenges or or even struggles that you may have experienced
that accompany when you talked about these very different
energies, these different messagings that you were getting
(22:32):
from parents versus grandparents?
Ultimately, you you listen to yourself and what felt right for
you at the time. Fast forward to present day or
you know when I say that past few years, several years,
whatever. How does you know 45 ish year
(22:52):
old Danita navigate those spacesnow of feeling that?
It's. Conflicting energies, yeah.
Yeah, I think the in the past few years, the biggest thing
that has happened or that I've had to live through that has
(23:13):
really been that similar kind ofchoice has been a daughter of
mine that is LGBTQ, right. OK.
I. Just know that, Danita.
Yes. Thank you for sharing that with
me. Yeah.
So, you know, having raised my own kids in this conservative
(23:34):
Christian faith, because ultimately I chose to come back
to church and to live the teaching and to really kind of
throw myself into them and and really choose church and God and
faith. Early on, there was a lesson, a
Sunday lesson that had asked, where did you get your testimony
(23:55):
from? Were you borrowing it from
someone? And I immediately was like,
yeah, I'm borrowing it from my grandparents.
And I think I'm a pretty trusting and believing person.
And so it was sort of a moment where I thought, yeah, I kind of
do want my own testimony. I want it.
I want to know for myself, not just that my grandparents told
me. And it made sense.
And so sure. And so, you know, there are more
(24:18):
spiritual experiences around that, but I raised my kids in
this faith and it's hard to be LGBTQ and LDS at the same time.
And I recognize that. I recognize that she has to have
her own journey of figuring out her faith and her relationship
(24:39):
with God. And pretty soon I, they just
asked me, actually, my daughter and her girlfriend are here for
the summer. And her girlfriend asked me if I
ever struggled with knowing thatmy daughter was lesbian.
And I said, not really, which isn't the entire truth.
(24:59):
I mean, once when she first cameout to me, I, I feel like I
reacted really well and I sort of let it sink in.
And, you know, I had thoughts and feelings around it, of
course, but it was a short wrestle, I would say, because I,
I quickly came to the realization that her journey is
her journey and her relationshipwith God is her relationship
(25:22):
with God and that my job is justto love her.
And for me, that was kind of an easy distinction to make.
I know many, many people struggle with that, but I can
pretty easily stay in my lane and I can have my faith and my
practices and do what feels right to me and I can let her do
that and what feels right to her.
(25:44):
And I'm kind of holding two things together, what I believe
for myself, what I think is right for her, and what is my
relationship toward her or my responsibility toward her.
And my conclusion was the scriptures say to love God and
love your neighbors. And my daughter is one of my
neighbors. And it really doesn't say like
(26:06):
you need to teach them or you need to, you know, obviously
we're taught to kind of share the gospel.
But my realization was she knowsthe gospel, right?
She was old enough. She was 16 at the time when she
came out to me. And so I just thought she knows
the gospel. She knows.
And, and I think it in some waysparalleled my own journey,
(26:29):
right, that that I had more kindof two sets of influences one
way and the other. But I also knew I knew the
gospel too. I've been going to church since
I was six years old and I, I think I could like, because I
had stepped away from the churchand because that was such an
important part of my journey in that agency, I could allow her
(26:52):
to have that too. And I and I continue to allow
her and she's very respectful of, of my beliefs and I'm
respectful of hers and we have agreat relationship.
But I think that has been the experience that has been the
most sort of what do I choose here?
(27:14):
What direction do I go, You know?
And honestly, the hardest part of it has been watching my
husband wrestle with that. He's a convert.
And in many ways, I see him as sort of a younger, like a child
in the gospel. And so I think he's had a harder
(27:36):
time wrestling with it because he's still in that sort of black
and white, like if you do this, then these blessings will come.
I, I don't know. I think it just really pushed me
into a deeper faith and a trust in God that He knows my daughter
and everything in the end will be fair.
That's my, I really appreciate you opening up your heart and
(28:00):
sharing. It's not just your story, but
it's your family's story in partand contributing to this
normalization that our stories are all so different, so varied
in how they look in real life. And I, it's like you read my
(28:22):
mind. I was going to ask if you felt
comfortable speaking to this, you know, this idea that your
beliefs are possibly different now than what your daughter's
beliefs are. You've said she stepped away
from the church and, and what that kind of a discussion looks
like. And you said that she respects
(28:45):
your beliefs and, and then it's it's obviously returned on your
part. What do you think has made that
space possible for you? Like if there were families that
were listening to this episode that find similarities in their
reality. I mean, you're definitely a
mixed faith family, right? I think we all are, to be
(29:07):
honest, if we're all, if we all were to wear our hearts on our
sleeves and share, you know, ourtrue thoughts and, and what's on
our minds and, and things that bring us happiness, things that
maybe weigh us down. I, I think that we would say
that all of us are in varying degrees of our, our faith
(29:31):
practices or faith, our beliefs and so on.
But what? What can you share to help
others in this space that has made this type of a relationship
possible, this type of a mutual respect?
Yeah, there are a couple things that come up.
The first one is the whole idea of like, I literally think of it
(29:55):
as like lanes on a freeway and I'm driving in my lane and my
lane includes my relationship with God or deity, my practices.
Like if I just contain it into that, just me and God, that's
part of my lane, right? But just like when we're on the
(30:19):
freeway and we want to switch lanes, I got to like look around
and see, is there someone there?I don't want to hurt anyone
else. And their lane is their
relationship with God. So I'm, I'm being a little bit
repetitive here, but for me, it was like, it was a relief to
think of it this way, to be like, oh, I can have a
(30:42):
relationship with God and I can have a relationship with them.
But it, the two don't really have to mix, right?
They can have a relationship with God and that's their thing.
And that was real. I think for some people that is
confusing. But for me it was like, oh, all
(31:03):
I have to do is have my relationship with God and then I
just have to love her, right? I have to like look in my blind
spot, see if there's a car there, you know, speed up or
slow down or wait for them to pass.
Like it just seemed so possible,right?
That that it's none of my business what my daughter, her
(31:27):
faith journey looks like. And I think a lot of parents
think that it is their business right now.
I do think it's my business to teach my children the things
that I believe. One of my thoughts is that the
world is is pretty not believingof God or deity in general.
(31:49):
And so if that's all they get, they're not really given agency
or choice. And so I do think it's my job to
teach them there is a God and this is what I believe about a
God. And here are all the tenants and
all of that. But once we've done that, then
we have to kind of step back andlet them take their journey,
right. So that is one thing that comes
(32:12):
up that for me, it just was pretty easy to stay in my lane
and to, to have my relationship with God and to have my
relationship with her and that they didn't have to be connected
to each other. And I don't know if that's
necessarily easy for everyone. The and I, I think my own, my
(32:34):
own journey, stepping away from the church and coming back and
being more conscious in it helped me see that really
everyone has that journey, whether they see it or not.
And so really in a way, I think it's, it's good to allow.
I mean, I also have my son is like a Peter priesthood.
(32:57):
He's like. Everyone.
Should be Well, he just who loves the church, wants to be in
the church, wants to follow the rules, has very high moral
standards, is very comfortable in he's similar to me in this
way in in a a conservative Christian religion structure
and. That kind of thing.
(33:19):
And he's also pretty judgmental of other people who believe
differently. And so I, I work a lot with him.
He just is. It hasn't quite left that black
and white area of belief yet. And I'm, I try to push him a
little into the Gray right. Yeah.
So I have the whole range. Yeah, you too.
(33:40):
Right. I, my middle child is sort of
like teetering, like she's somewhere, you know, she still
goes to church, but I don't knowhow strong her testimony is or
how much desire there is there. So I have one that has
completely stepped away, one that's completely in and wants
to be in and one that's somewhere in the middle.
And I, I mean I personally. Have the whole.
(34:03):
I have the whole spectrum and I just think it's fascinating,
right to watch. Everyone has their own journey
and that the I think the more wecan let our relationship with
God be our relationship. And I even say this like when I
open my scriptures, I am not taking a scripture and telling
(34:25):
anyone you should do this. The scriptures are for me to.
Apply to which is important. Yeah, that's important.
So I think if we did more of that, yeah, that there would be
more of understanding and and Highness.
Yeah, just it. It would be easier.
So what you're saying is kind ofleading into this next question
(34:48):
I have for you, and that is, youknow, I have found that really
seeking and noticing and celebrating these moments of
bliss that occur naturally as I have, you know, taken the reins
of my own spiritual journey, whether that's, you know, self
differentiation or increased spiritual autonomy or or
(35:10):
sovereignty. Those are what really sustained
me. And so I'm curious, you know,
you've you've talked, you've alluded to this a little bit,
You know, where and how have youfound new joy or, or life or a
rebirth in your spirituality as you have, you know, stepped into
(35:30):
some of the some the unknown uncertainty and been, I'll say,
rewarded. That's not really what I'm
trying to say. You've been given these
opportunities, these moments of bliss and joy.
Yeah. Actually, I think the answer
that to that question is the second thing that came up for
(35:52):
me. OK.
Is that faith is comfortable forme the the not knowing and
believing that God has it all under control and that he will
be kind and merciful and fair toall of us.
Anytime there's like a hmm, I wonder what about that?
(36:14):
I wonder what's going to happen about this other thing.
I'm just like, I don't know. And I'm perfectly comfortable
not knowing. Yeah, I'm perfectly comfortable
deferring to a God who I believeis more powerful and all knowing
and kind and gracious and all ofthose things.
So I think not everyone is, Yeah, a lot of people are
(36:35):
uncomfortable in the not knowing, in the unknown.
And I think that that's, I mean,it's not easy for me
necessarily, but it's it's comfortable.
And as I've practiced it more and more, it's more and more
comfortable. So a lot of things that I'm
like, well, I kind of think thismight happen in the future, but
I don't really know. I just let it be gods.
(36:59):
Yes, there's definitely some muscles there to be developed
that that it takes in order to be tolerant of uncertainty.
Yes, and I. Think more comfortable with
uncertainty than I ever used to be with.
Yes. Before.
And I just, I always say this isfaith, this is exercising faith.
(37:20):
It's having a thing right, necessarily knowing moving
forward anyway. Yeah.
And I'm very comfortable in that.
And so that's kind of the secondthing.
It's almost like I would say it,letting God be in his lane,
right? Like his business is his
business. Yeah, the opposite of faith is
not certainty, but I think we are often raised with that idea
(37:44):
in mind. How however we get it can vary.
But yeah, I've learned that the opposite of faith is actually
doubt. It's it's healthy to have doubts
and questions. They're two sides of the same
coin. Yeah, I kind of think faith is
probably the hub and there are multiple opposite opposites of
it, so. That's an interesting
(38:05):
philosophy, I've never heard that one before.
Yeah, I think the same with love.
There are multiple opposites of love, which is another thing I
think, honestly, I think I'm here to love.
Like part of my personal purposeon Earth is to learn how to love
and share love and be love. And all of these experiences
(38:28):
that I've had with my kids and my husband and my parents and my
grandparents has all just shown me or given me opportunities to
love. And sometimes I've missed the
opportunity. Sometimes I have not done well
with them. But I think the older I get, the
more experience I get, the more I'm like, oh, this is just
another opportunity for me to love.
(38:48):
Oh, this is just an opportunity for my love to deepen and for
me, like love and contentment, our joy that's like I, I, I
think it would be interesting tohave a conversation, maybe a
different time about like what really is joy and how do we see
that and how does it feel? And I think it's different for
everyone, but for me, joy is like that sort of low level.
(39:13):
Everything is OK, everything is right.
I love my life, I love my peopleand that like that comfort in
the unknown has led me to be able to be more loving and to
have the moment, those moments more.
(39:35):
You and I have. We've talked about your work in
recent conversations that you'retruly trying to embody this in
your work as a life coach and inyour programs.
Or am I remembering? Am I remembering correctly our
discussion? Yeah, I really AM.
It's not necessarily in my marketing.
(39:56):
It's kind of more in my messaging.
Right. But yeah, I.
Don't think anybody would think it'd be an effective marketing
tool. Hey, I'm embodying love.
Exactly. Yeah.
But yeah, it is like, I have hadsome spiritual experiences where
I have felt messages from the divine.
(40:18):
Like, part of my purpose is to help, particularly women.
My brain keeps wanting to go to like, teenagers and children
and, you know, other, other demographics.
But then my spirit keeps coming back to like women and mothers
to be a model of love and also just to offer love and to offer
(40:43):
this idea of like holding space,which is a lot of what I do as a
coach. But I think we need more of it
outside of coaching and therapy and circles where we assume
space is being held. I just think we need more
tolerance for everybody's experiences and emotions and
thoughts. And I feel like I'm really good
at that, that. Yeah, you are.
(41:06):
And thank you for being a part of that, contributing to those,
creating those safe spaces. But yeah, I've noted I've
learned that those have to be actively created.
And they start by somebody beingbrave and creating brave spaces
that can hopefully then transform into more safe spaces.
(41:27):
And you're definitely doing that.
So the last question I like to ask all of my guests reflects
the title of my podcast, and that is what does it.
So what does living beyond the shadow of doubt mean to you?
This I really had to think aboutthis question, and what I came
(41:50):
to is that I think to me it means living unshamed, like
wherever you are, whatever. Your faith.
Journey or how you feel or what you think that there's validity
in it and that like because you feel that way or think that way,
(42:14):
there really is no shame in it. It's just your personal journey.
And I think shame is such an obstacle.
So many of us, you know, I mean,part of me was like, is there
really even living beyond the shadow of a doubt?
That's what I love. That's why I like to open this
(42:35):
conversation because doubt has, you know, traditionally been
cast in such a negative light. And I just love exploring what
does it actually mean? And when someone says I know
such and such thing beyond the shadow of a doubt, what, what is
it they're really saying? And is that really possible or
(42:56):
just I love having conversation,trying to open up productive
dialogue around these concepts that we've given so much power
to? So yeah, I think when someone
says that, I think what it meansis I do not feel ashamed of my
belief or my feeling in this thing.
God that's that's a great point.I've not heard it described that
(43:19):
way. So I want to leave your contact
info in the show notes so that folks, if they wanted to reach
out to you with questions or, you know, interested more about
your work, what would be the easiest way for them to do that?
Yeah. Honestly, probably the easiest
(43:40):
way is to e-mail me podcast@danitabremer.com.
OK I have a website danitabremer.com.
There's contact info on there. Can explore more about what
ioffer. It's not always 100% up to date,
but it is probably good to know that I am not on social media
this year. Yes, I may return in the future,
(44:03):
I have not decided yet. But I also do want to mention
that I have my own podcast. Yes, please do, I'm so blessed.
Why can't I feel good? So you can get to know me a
little. Bit more be a way to definitely
connect with you. We'll make sure and leave that
in the show notes. So I just have a few for fun
questions to throw out. Just looking for one to two word
answers so we can just get to know you a little better.
(44:24):
Tell us your favorite book, or afavorite book if if one is too
hard. It's going to be cliche, but I
love Harry Potter. It's not.
It is fun. It's it's kind of timeless.
Tell us, are you an introvert oran extrovert?
I am an introvert. I think I I knew that.
And tell us who your favorite artist is.
(44:45):
Oh, favorite artist I don't havelike a favorite famous artist,
but my daughter is an artist, soI'll.
Just say her that works. Is she paint, Sketch, musician?
Oil painting is her main. Painting.
Love it. OK, are you a night owl or
morning lark? I'm a night owl who wants to be
(45:07):
a morning lark. I relate to that.
OK, until it's your celebrity crush, if you have one.
Oh, celebrity crush. I've not really ever been a
person who has had celebrity crushes, partly because between
the ages of nine and 14 I lived without electricity, so we
(45:28):
didn't have TV during those veryimportant years.
Oh, but if I had to pick one, I might say Pierce Brosnan.
OK, that tells you a lot about my type in men.
That works. Do you do still or carbonated
water or diet soda or some otherfun beverage still?
(45:49):
Water almost 100% of the time. Good for you.
And then finally, the furthest place you've travelled.
We lived in Europe for a year. Fun.
So the furthest place I've travelled I'd have to look at a
map, but it might be Greece or Croatia, I don't know which one
is. I'm not sure which is further.
(46:11):
Yeah, so close together, but they both sound like fun places
to visit. I haven't yet hope to, but
Danita, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for making
time in your schedule, being flexible and meeting with me
today. Yeah.
Thank you for having me, it's been lovely.
It has writer, teacher, author, Mormon scholar and founder of
(46:36):
Dialogue Journal Eugene England said My faith encourages my
curiosity and awe, thrusts me out into relationship with all
creation, and encourages me to enter into dialogue.
As a proud member of the Dialogue Podcast Network, my
hope is that Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt podcast is an
extension of that vision. Hopeful Spaces is a Dallas Hope
(47:09):
Charities component of Hopeful Discussions.
Sponsored by Mercedes-Benz Financial Services USA.
It's a free monthly parent, allyor caregiver support group
facilitated by megan.skidmorecoachingemailchc@dallashopecharities.org
for more info. Visit meganskidmorecoaching.com
(47:34):
to find this podcast and additional free resources,
including the link for a complimentary coaching session.
Follow me on Facebook or Instagram for more or to send me
a DM. Help the podcast grow.
Please follow, review and share with a friend.
I'm Megan Skidmore. For 2 1/2 years I have been
talking about evolving faith journeys.
I started to tire of the heaviness of this focus.
I had the clear message come through.
It is time for Beyond the Shadowof Doubt podcast to evolve into
Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt podcast.
With the same vulnerability and unapologetic authenticity.
(00:31):
I will be focusing on the joy inthis journey, the life and the
living that comes on the other side of maybe on the other side
of what's possible. I want to talk about claiming
spiritual sovereignty and becoming your own captain of
your vessel. Let's celebrate releasing but no
longer aligns for you and connecting with your higher
power and honor. Expanding your energy field to
(00:52):
make room for all things new. Hey everyone, welcome to today's
episode of Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt.
(01:14):
So, so grateful to have my friend Danita with me today.
We have this has been in the works for a little while, so I'm
really grateful that we made it happen.
So welcome. Yeah.
Thanks, Megan. You are so welcome.
I'm, I'm excited for my guests, our guests to get to know you a
(01:38):
little better and your background and a little bit more
about your faith journey and what that's been like and how
you have made me evolved the role.
Questions and doubts have playedin that and the ways in which
(01:58):
you've acclaimed your spiritual autonomy and how that's brought
you joy. So we'll just jump right in.
If you can, take a minute and just share a little bit about
you with our guests. Yeah, I'm Danita Bremer.
I I grew up, I was born in San Diego, but I grew up in Eastern
Washington in a tiny little towncalled Oroville.
(02:21):
Probably no one will know where that is because it's so small.
Went to the rest of my schoolingthere, zero to 18.
Went to university at the University of Washington in
Seattle. Met my husband there.
Who did? I did not know that.
That's so cool. See, I'm learning new things
(02:42):
about you. Yeah, and we have three kids
which are all almost grown. My youngest is about to turn 17
in a couple months. My middle child just graduated
from high school. She's going to see you Boulder
in the fall. And my oldest chose to go to
university in the UK and she's travelled around the world a
(03:03):
bit. They're all home at the moment.
So that is nice for a mother heart.
And yeah, my mom was not a member of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints. My dad was.
But he was inactive my entire life and still is and can.
You just explain what you mean by an active for those that are
(03:24):
listening that are not of the LDS faith.
Background. He never went to church.
He did not live by the standardsof the church.
He basically was like somebody who had never been a member, but
his name was still and is still on the records of the church as
a member of the church. So, and to give a little
(03:47):
context, when I was born, my momwas 17 and my dad was 20.
So they were very, very young. Yes, they were.
Needed a lot of help financiallygrowing up.
It was always tight and I came into the church and am a member
of the church because of my grandparents.
OK. Who would take my sister and I
(04:10):
to church on Sundays? But I kind of lived in the
duality of grandma and grandpa believed this and lived this
way, a very kind of conservativeChristian lifestyle.
But mom and dad very much did not were into drugs and alcohol.
And so I lived both of those realities in my life.
(04:36):
When I was a teenager, I steppedaway from the church primarily
because I had started dating. And according to the standards
of the church, we're not supposed to date, at least when
I was a teenager, not supposed to date until you're 16.
And I was 14 when I started dating.
And my grandparents were very judgmental about that.
(04:57):
And so instead of reconciling that myself, which I don't think
most teenagers would have the ability to do, I just decided
I'm not going to go to church because it's too hard to be
around them. And they're very judgmental.
When I went to university, I hadknown for a while, like it was
about 5 or 6 years that I wasn'tattending church, wasn't really
(05:20):
living the standards. And I had known for a while that
I wanted to go back, but it was kind of hard, right?
Like after it was, it was too hard in a tiny little town with
a very tiny congregation to go back there because I thought
everyone would judge me. How many years had passed again?
Well, when I started going back,it was like 5, five and a half,
(05:43):
something like that. I tried to go back to church a
couple times my freshman year ofcollege, and I showed up at this
like, you know, singles wards. I didn't really know.
Like, I grew up in this tiny little town with a little
branch, and then I went to school in a big city.
(06:03):
And so I didn't understand that there were multiple
congregations that would meet inone building.
I thought somebody would come upto me and shake my hand and tell
me where to go next. And they didn't.
And so I would be like, OK, I'llcome back in a few months,
right? But I did eventually make my way
back to church and have been very, very active and involved
(06:26):
my entire adult life since then.So that yeah, that's a little
bit about. Fascinating.
I didn't know that about you. I didn't know that about your
parents and grandparents. And this was in Washington state
that you grew up. Yes.
And you're now, No, not in Washington state anymore.
Now, so I, I married that boy I met freshman year of college.
(06:50):
He was not a member of the church.
So that was the whole thing. And we lived in the Bay Area for
very briefly, less than three years.
And then we moved to the Denver area, where we are now.
We've been here for almost 19 years.
That's where we raised our family.
And yeah, we love it here. That's great.
(07:11):
That's that's really great. So you have the unique position
of some of my guests that I've spoken with, they have had
grandparents or other extended family that may be introduced
other faiths whether regardless of whether they grew up in an I
(07:31):
do interview a lot of folks fromthe LDS faith background, but
there are plenty of others that are not.
But so usually the combination is 1 faith as well as another
faith. But you have this unique
perspective of essentially the same religion, but you saw
different ways of it being observed.
(07:55):
We could say in in real time by people who were important to
you, that you we could say tell me if I'm wrong, looked up to
and loved and. Yeah, and and even listen to.
(08:15):
So you, you talked about your teenage years.
Sounds very teenagery and I loveit.
Tell me about a little bit more in depth about your faith
journey, why you decided you wanted to begin to come back.
Yeah, 5 plus years later. Well, first of all, personality
(08:39):
wise, I think I am a person who my personality lends itself very
well to having some kind of moral standard, some kind of
moral compass. And I think looking back, I
think I was attracted to that. I'm also an oldest daughter.
So there's sort of that, that sense of like responsibility and
(09:03):
doing the right thing. But I would say looking back,
even from a young age, because Istarted going to church with my
grandparents when I was 6, technically I'm a convert
because most of the members of our church that grow up in the
church are baptized at the age of eight.
I was 9. So if you are baptized beyond
the age of eight, you're considered like a convert, which
(09:25):
is, you know, how do I explain that?
I think you did fine. It just means that you're you're
considered to have converted to the faith rather than being born
into the LDS religion. Yeah, so I think before my
baptism I can look back and kindof see how I was attracted to a
(09:48):
religion, a belief system. So I think that's one factor.
The second thing kind of goes back to an experience I had when
I was 7 or 8 years old. I lived on my grandparents
property, so my grandparents had20 acres.
They built a house there and my mom and dad, my dad had lost his
(10:11):
job. When I was 6.
They went to live with my grandparents and they put kind
of a mobile home trailer on the property.
It was supposed to be temporary.It was temporary, but we lived
there a couple of years and during the summers I was like my
grandmother's little shadow and I would just putter around with
her. She did a lot of gardening, a
(10:32):
lot of kind of household projects.
She was retired but newly retired.
And this one day was very, very hot, but no wind.
And so she decided to go spray some weeds.
She wanted to spray some weeds, so she had this jug that she
would put the weed killer in that had a screw top with a hose
(10:55):
that she could spray. And she would put this jug, I
think it was like a 2 gallon jug, so pretty large jug, into a
wagon. And she would pull the wagon
around the property and spray. The weeds.
And it must have been the first time of the summer that she was
spraying weeds because we couldn't find the jug.
We could find the wagon, we could find the the top that
(11:15):
screwed into the jug. She had the weed killer spray
stuff, but we couldn't find the actual jug.
And we looked they had my grandpa had a shop like a wood
shop. They had a garage, they had a
carport, they had a shed, they had a barn that all these
different places where it might be.
(11:36):
And grandma and I went to all these places looking for this
jug and she gave up. She was frustrated and she said
I'm going to go back to the house and make some lunch.
And me being this like, I don't know, I guess I would call
myself like a sweet innocent child again.
I was 7 or 8 years old, really wanted to help her.
(11:58):
So I decided that I was going tosay a prayer and see if I guess
my thought was like God would answer my prayer and show me
where this jug was. And that's exactly what
happened. I, I told my grandma, I said,
Grandma, I'll be in in just a minute.
And I went around the side of the house to a little spot of
(12:18):
shade and I folded my arms and Ibowed my head and I said a
prayer that was something like Heavenly Father, I really want
to help grandma, Please show me where this jug is.
Amen. Something like that was very
short. Very.
Sweet. I immediately felt like I should
go back to this shed. This little shed was probably my
(12:39):
guess is like 6 by 8 feet. Something like that was a small
building and the door was open and I there was it was full of
all kinds of building materials and yard things.
I'm pretty sure there was like apush lawn mower in there and I
just was scanning from starting up my right side over to my left
(13:01):
side. And when I got to my left side,
kind of looking at the back leftcorner of the shed, something
inside of my body, it was not a thought.
It was like a magnet pulling me toward that corner.
And I just knew I was like, it'sback there.
I couldn't see it, but I climbedover the the lawnmower and I got
(13:22):
back to this back corner and there was like a thin sheet of
like a sheet of metal, kind of like a tin roof type of
material. And I pulled it back and there
sat this plastic jug with cobwebs all over it.
And I just, I knew that that waswhat grandma was looking for.
And I pulled it out and I carefully climbed back out and I
(13:42):
ran up to the house and she was coming out of the door and I
said, look what I found. And she was like in awe.
She was like, where did you findit?
It was in the shed. I never told her that I said a
prayer and that like it manifest, like the Spirit, like
manifested itself to me. And so I think in that moment
(14:06):
and with that experience, I, it was kind of confirmed to my soul
that God was real, that he knew me, that he answered my prayers.
And so later on, when I decided to stop going to church because
I felt judged, I literally was stepping away from the church,
not from God. And so my testimony, my belief
(14:30):
in a God, in a higher power never wavered.
But it was complicated because Iwas like, my grandparents don't
like me right now. They don't agree with what I'm
doing. They're judgmental.
I don't want to be around that. So I really was consciously
choosing to not be around them, which included going to church
on Sunday. And I think the whole time, the
(14:53):
five to six years that I wasn't attending church inside of me, I
was like, I should be at church.I should be at church.
And I think I honestly wanted anoption that didn't include going
to church with my grandparents and that just in the small town
I was in, that wasn't an option.And so when I went to college, I
(15:13):
thought, oh, now, now I can go. Grandma and grandpa won't be
there. It'll be like a fresh start.
But the really the whole time I,I had a sense that I wanted to
be there, that God wanted me there, That, that that was my
place. That was like in line with who I
was. Yeah.
(15:35):
That's that's a beautiful story.And you said you were 8 or 9.
I don't remember exactly how oldI was, I think I was 7 or 8.
OK, so you had this will say thebeginnings of a foundation of
your own relationship with the divine at A at a pretty early
(15:56):
age. You talked about in your teenage
years how you you essentially took your power back for
whatever reasons, right? I won't put them into your mouth
for you, but you knew what aligned for you when it came to
navigating those teenage years and the feelings that
(16:16):
accompanied those and what you did want to feel and didn't want
to feel like and interest. I was interested to note that
you you found the jug, but you you kept kind of the process to
yourself. And I'm coming from a place of
that's interesting, that's curious to me that you didn't
share it. And you know, you were young,
(16:37):
right? You were probably still trying
to make sense of it yourself to some extent.
Tell me if I'm wrong. I didn't even think to share it.
You didn't even think to share that.
That's fair. So can you speak to this idea
of, you know, when you realize that what you actually believe,
(17:00):
what you actually feel on the inside your, your inner being is
different than maybe what's being handed to you or passed
down to you? And it's not quite meshing
meeting your needs and and you're so you're you're claiming
(17:23):
your own way. Can you speak to that process
for you? And, and my guess is that it can
has continued, didn't just happen in your younger years and
in your teenage years. Yeah.
The way I think of it is that weall have kind of a spirit or a
(17:46):
higher self, but we also have this sort of human self, right?
And I would say now I think I felt a lot of guilt starting to
date. And, you know, like boys, my
parents, my aunts and uncles didnot have a great track record
(18:07):
with this, right? Like my parents were not married
ever. They had three kids together.
I have aunts and uncles who accidentally got pregnant, like
things like that. And so I, I think my
grandparents were legitimately concerned, right, that I had
this influence of my parents who, who got married very young.
(18:27):
It really complicated their lives.
And I think they wanted more andbetter for me.
And, you know, coming from theirperspective, it was like, you
know, you don't have sex until you're married.
But we can kind of see where this is going, right?
You're starting to date when you're 14.
Like, what are the odds you're going to not have sex until
(18:47):
you're married? I, I do think that they cared
for me and wanted what was best,but how that presented in the
moment was judgement. And I felt a lot of guilt.
And I think part of that was like, I kind of knew, like I
wasn't dumb, right? I knew that if I wanted to live
(19:09):
the teachings that I was being involved in and, you know, going
to church every week, that I really shouldn't be dating at
14. But also I had gone to my
parents and talked to them aboutit and they were like, well, go
out on a date once or twice. If you don't like the guy, then
just stop. And it seemed so simple.
And, and so the fact that my grandparents were like, we know
(19:31):
you're dating that boy. And they were so their, their
emotions around it were so strong.
It was a little confusing to me.Like I'm getting one message
from my parents, another one from my grandparents.
And the the easy thing, I think,was to ignore my grandparents
and to just do what I wanted to do, do right, having attention
(19:55):
from a boy. This boy was actually three
years older than me at the time.I can't even imagine what my
parents were thinking letting medate him.
But that is really attractive. Like, that's flattering
attention, right? And so it was much easier for me
to ignore my grandparents and call them old.
Crotchety old people, right thanit was for me to really listen
(20:18):
to what might have been. Kind of my higher self.
Now I'm so thankful for it because I really feel like many,
many people who grow up with a religion being taught from their
parents and grandparents, they don't have true agency the way I
experienced agency. Like my parents literally could
(20:40):
not care less if I went to church and my grandparents were
like, we'd love you to come. It was my choice every single
week. And then when I stopped going to
church, it was like I was experiencing more of the side of
what my parents were living. And like, they would literally
invite me. Like, hey, get high with us.
Hey, drink with us. And I had that choice, right?
(21:04):
And so I feel like from a very young age, I really had true
agency because it wasn't, it didn't feel like pressure.
I mean, sometimes it felt a little bit like pressure, but it
was more like these two invitations and that I got to
choose which way to live. Yeah, at the time it, I mean, I
(21:26):
think I was just doing whatever felt right in the moment,
really. But now that I have some
hindsight and you know, I'm 45 year old adult, I find it such a
gift that that agency was really, really mine.
Every first Friday of the month ioffer a free coaching hour.
Anyone is welcome to join and you may leave your camera off
(21:47):
and change your name if you would like to remain anonymous.
This is an opportunity to get introduced to my style of
holistic coaching and gain real skills, insight relevant to you
and fresh perspective on life circumstances.
For those attending, there will be opportunities for a
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Register at the link in the shownotes.
Yeah. So let's if if you're
(22:10):
comfortable with this, let's Fast forward then to more
present day Danita. And can you speak to the
challenges or or even struggles that you may have experienced
that accompany when you talked about these very different
energies, these different messagings that you were getting
(22:32):
from parents versus grandparents?
Ultimately, you you listen to yourself and what felt right for
you at the time. Fast forward to present day or
you know when I say that past few years, several years,
whatever. How does you know 45 ish year
(22:52):
old Danita navigate those spacesnow of feeling that?
It's. Conflicting energies, yeah.
Yeah, I think the in the past few years, the biggest thing
that has happened or that I've had to live through that has
(23:13):
really been that similar kind ofchoice has been a daughter of
mine that is LGBTQ, right. OK.
I. Just know that, Danita.
Yes. Thank you for sharing that with
me. Yeah.
So, you know, having raised my own kids in this conservative
(23:34):
Christian faith, because ultimately I chose to come back
to church and to live the teaching and to really kind of
throw myself into them and and really choose church and God and
faith. Early on, there was a lesson, a
Sunday lesson that had asked, where did you get your testimony
(23:55):
from? Were you borrowing it from
someone? And I immediately was like,
yeah, I'm borrowing it from my grandparents.
And I think I'm a pretty trusting and believing person.
And so it was sort of a moment where I thought, yeah, I kind of
do want my own testimony. I want it.
I want to know for myself, not just that my grandparents told
me. And it made sense.
And so sure. And so, you know, there are more
(24:18):
spiritual experiences around that, but I raised my kids in
this faith and it's hard to be LGBTQ and LDS at the same time.
And I recognize that. I recognize that she has to have
her own journey of figuring out her faith and her relationship
(24:39):
with God. And pretty soon I, they just
asked me, actually, my daughter and her girlfriend are here for
the summer. And her girlfriend asked me if I
ever struggled with knowing thatmy daughter was lesbian.
And I said, not really, which isn't the entire truth.
(24:59):
I mean, once when she first cameout to me, I, I feel like I
reacted really well and I sort of let it sink in.
And, you know, I had thoughts and feelings around it, of
course, but it was a short wrestle, I would say, because I,
I quickly came to the realization that her journey is
her journey and her relationshipwith God is her relationship
(25:22):
with God and that my job is justto love her.
And for me, that was kind of an easy distinction to make.
I know many, many people struggle with that, but I can
pretty easily stay in my lane and I can have my faith and my
practices and do what feels right to me and I can let her do
that and what feels right to her.
(25:44):
And I'm kind of holding two things together, what I believe
for myself, what I think is right for her, and what is my
relationship toward her or my responsibility toward her.
And my conclusion was the scriptures say to love God and
love your neighbors. And my daughter is one of my
neighbors. And it really doesn't say like
(26:06):
you need to teach them or you need to, you know, obviously
we're taught to kind of share the gospel.
But my realization was she knowsthe gospel, right?
She was old enough. She was 16 at the time when she
came out to me. And so I just thought she knows
the gospel. She knows.
And, and I think it in some waysparalleled my own journey,
(26:29):
right, that that I had more kindof two sets of influences one
way and the other. But I also knew I knew the
gospel too. I've been going to church since
I was six years old and I, I think I could like, because I
had stepped away from the churchand because that was such an
important part of my journey in that agency, I could allow her
(26:52):
to have that too. And I and I continue to allow
her and she's very respectful of, of my beliefs and I'm
respectful of hers and we have agreat relationship.
But I think that has been the experience that has been the
most sort of what do I choose here?
(27:14):
What direction do I go, You know?
And honestly, the hardest part of it has been watching my
husband wrestle with that. He's a convert.
And in many ways, I see him as sort of a younger, like a child
in the gospel. And so I think he's had a harder
(27:36):
time wrestling with it because he's still in that sort of black
and white, like if you do this, then these blessings will come.
I, I don't know. I think it just really pushed me
into a deeper faith and a trust in God that He knows my daughter
and everything in the end will be fair.
That's my, I really appreciate you opening up your heart and
(28:00):
sharing. It's not just your story, but
it's your family's story in partand contributing to this
normalization that our stories are all so different, so varied
in how they look in real life. And I, it's like you read my
(28:22):
mind. I was going to ask if you felt
comfortable speaking to this, you know, this idea that your
beliefs are possibly different now than what your daughter's
beliefs are. You've said she stepped away
from the church and, and what that kind of a discussion looks
like. And you said that she respects
(28:45):
your beliefs and, and then it's it's obviously returned on your
part. What do you think has made that
space possible for you? Like if there were families that
were listening to this episode that find similarities in their
reality. I mean, you're definitely a
mixed faith family, right? I think we all are, to be
(29:07):
honest, if we're all, if we all were to wear our hearts on our
sleeves and share, you know, ourtrue thoughts and, and what's on
our minds and, and things that bring us happiness, things that
maybe weigh us down. I, I think that we would say
that all of us are in varying degrees of our, our faith
(29:31):
practices or faith, our beliefs and so on.
But what? What can you share to help
others in this space that has made this type of a relationship
possible, this type of a mutual respect?
Yeah, there are a couple things that come up.
The first one is the whole idea of like, I literally think of it
(29:55):
as like lanes on a freeway and I'm driving in my lane and my
lane includes my relationship with God or deity, my practices.
Like if I just contain it into that, just me and God, that's
part of my lane, right? But just like when we're on the
(30:19):
freeway and we want to switch lanes, I got to like look around
and see, is there someone there?I don't want to hurt anyone
else. And their lane is their
relationship with God. So I'm, I'm being a little bit
repetitive here, but for me, it was like, it was a relief to
think of it this way, to be like, oh, I can have a
(30:42):
relationship with God and I can have a relationship with them.
But it, the two don't really have to mix, right?
They can have a relationship with God and that's their thing.
And that was real. I think for some people that is
confusing. But for me it was like, oh, all
(31:03):
I have to do is have my relationship with God and then I
just have to love her, right? I have to like look in my blind
spot, see if there's a car there, you know, speed up or
slow down or wait for them to pass.
Like it just seemed so possible,right?
That that it's none of my business what my daughter, her
(31:27):
faith journey looks like. And I think a lot of parents
think that it is their business right now.
I do think it's my business to teach my children the things
that I believe. One of my thoughts is that the
world is is pretty not believingof God or deity in general.
(31:49):
And so if that's all they get, they're not really given agency
or choice. And so I do think it's my job to
teach them there is a God and this is what I believe about a
God. And here are all the tenants and
all of that. But once we've done that, then
we have to kind of step back andlet them take their journey,
right. So that is one thing that comes
(32:12):
up that for me, it just was pretty easy to stay in my lane
and to, to have my relationship with God and to have my
relationship with her and that they didn't have to be connected
to each other. And I don't know if that's
necessarily easy for everyone. The and I, I think my own, my
(32:34):
own journey, stepping away from the church and coming back and
being more conscious in it helped me see that really
everyone has that journey, whether they see it or not.
And so really in a way, I think it's, it's good to allow.
I mean, I also have my son is like a Peter priesthood.
(32:57):
He's like. Everyone.
Should be Well, he just who loves the church, wants to be in
the church, wants to follow the rules, has very high moral
standards, is very comfortable in he's similar to me in this
way in in a a conservative Christian religion structure
and. That kind of thing.
(33:19):
And he's also pretty judgmental of other people who believe
differently. And so I, I work a lot with him.
He just is. It hasn't quite left that black
and white area of belief yet. And I'm, I try to push him a
little into the Gray right. Yeah.
So I have the whole range. Yeah, you too.
(33:40):
Right. I, my middle child is sort of
like teetering, like she's somewhere, you know, she still
goes to church, but I don't knowhow strong her testimony is or
how much desire there is there. So I have one that has
completely stepped away, one that's completely in and wants
to be in and one that's somewhere in the middle.
And I, I mean I personally. Have the whole.
(34:03):
I have the whole spectrum and I just think it's fascinating,
right to watch. Everyone has their own journey
and that the I think the more wecan let our relationship with
God be our relationship. And I even say this like when I
open my scriptures, I am not taking a scripture and telling
(34:25):
anyone you should do this. The scriptures are for me to.
Apply to which is important. Yeah, that's important.
So I think if we did more of that, yeah, that there would be
more of understanding and and Highness.
Yeah, just it. It would be easier.
So what you're saying is kind ofleading into this next question
(34:48):
I have for you, and that is, youknow, I have found that really
seeking and noticing and celebrating these moments of
bliss that occur naturally as I have, you know, taken the reins
of my own spiritual journey, whether that's, you know, self
differentiation or increased spiritual autonomy or or
(35:10):
sovereignty. Those are what really sustained
me. And so I'm curious, you know,
you've you've talked, you've alluded to this a little bit,
You know, where and how have youfound new joy or, or life or a
rebirth in your spirituality as you have, you know, stepped into
(35:30):
some of the some the unknown uncertainty and been, I'll say,
rewarded. That's not really what I'm
trying to say. You've been given these
opportunities, these moments of bliss and joy.
Yeah. Actually, I think the answer
that to that question is the second thing that came up for
(35:52):
me. OK.
Is that faith is comfortable forme the the not knowing and
believing that God has it all under control and that he will
be kind and merciful and fair toall of us.
Anytime there's like a hmm, I wonder what about that?
(36:14):
I wonder what's going to happen about this other thing.
I'm just like, I don't know. And I'm perfectly comfortable
not knowing. Yeah, I'm perfectly comfortable
deferring to a God who I believeis more powerful and all knowing
and kind and gracious and all ofthose things.
So I think not everyone is, Yeah, a lot of people are
(36:35):
uncomfortable in the not knowing, in the unknown.
And I think that that's, I mean,it's not easy for me
necessarily, but it's it's comfortable.
And as I've practiced it more and more, it's more and more
comfortable. So a lot of things that I'm
like, well, I kind of think thismight happen in the future, but
I don't really know. I just let it be gods.
(36:59):
Yes, there's definitely some muscles there to be developed
that that it takes in order to be tolerant of uncertainty.
Yes, and I. Think more comfortable with
uncertainty than I ever used to be with.
Yes. Before.
And I just, I always say this isfaith, this is exercising faith.
(37:20):
It's having a thing right, necessarily knowing moving
forward anyway. Yeah.
And I'm very comfortable in that.
And so that's kind of the secondthing.
It's almost like I would say it,letting God be in his lane,
right? Like his business is his
business. Yeah, the opposite of faith is
not certainty, but I think we are often raised with that idea
(37:44):
in mind. How however we get it can vary.
But yeah, I've learned that the opposite of faith is actually
doubt. It's it's healthy to have doubts
and questions. They're two sides of the same
coin. Yeah, I kind of think faith is
probably the hub and there are multiple opposite opposites of
it, so. That's an interesting
(38:05):
philosophy, I've never heard that one before.
Yeah, I think the same with love.
There are multiple opposites of love, which is another thing I
think, honestly, I think I'm here to love.
Like part of my personal purposeon Earth is to learn how to love
and share love and be love. And all of these experiences
(38:28):
that I've had with my kids and my husband and my parents and my
grandparents has all just shown me or given me opportunities to
love. And sometimes I've missed the
opportunity. Sometimes I have not done well
with them. But I think the older I get, the
more experience I get, the more I'm like, oh, this is just
another opportunity for me to love.
(38:48):
Oh, this is just an opportunity for my love to deepen and for
me, like love and contentment, our joy that's like I, I, I
think it would be interesting tohave a conversation, maybe a
different time about like what really is joy and how do we see
that and how does it feel? And I think it's different for
everyone, but for me, joy is like that sort of low level.
(39:13):
Everything is OK, everything is right.
I love my life, I love my peopleand that like that comfort in
the unknown has led me to be able to be more loving and to
have the moment, those moments more.
(39:35):
You and I have. We've talked about your work in
recent conversations that you'retruly trying to embody this in
your work as a life coach and inyour programs.
Or am I remembering? Am I remembering correctly our
discussion? Yeah, I really AM.
It's not necessarily in my marketing.
(39:56):
It's kind of more in my messaging.
Right. But yeah, I.
Don't think anybody would think it'd be an effective marketing
tool. Hey, I'm embodying love.
Exactly. Yeah.
But yeah, it is like, I have hadsome spiritual experiences where
I have felt messages from the divine.
(40:18):
Like, part of my purpose is to help, particularly women.
My brain keeps wanting to go to like, teenagers and children
and, you know, other, other demographics.
But then my spirit keeps coming back to like women and mothers
to be a model of love and also just to offer love and to offer
(40:43):
this idea of like holding space,which is a lot of what I do as a
coach. But I think we need more of it
outside of coaching and therapy and circles where we assume
space is being held. I just think we need more
tolerance for everybody's experiences and emotions and
thoughts. And I feel like I'm really good
at that, that. Yeah, you are.
(41:06):
And thank you for being a part of that, contributing to those,
creating those safe spaces. But yeah, I've noted I've
learned that those have to be actively created.
And they start by somebody beingbrave and creating brave spaces
that can hopefully then transform into more safe spaces.
(41:27):
And you're definitely doing that.
So the last question I like to ask all of my guests reflects
the title of my podcast, and that is what does it.
So what does living beyond the shadow of doubt mean to you?
This I really had to think aboutthis question, and what I came
(41:50):
to is that I think to me it means living unshamed, like
wherever you are, whatever. Your faith.
Journey or how you feel or what you think that there's validity
in it and that like because you feel that way or think that way,
(42:14):
there really is no shame in it. It's just your personal journey.
And I think shame is such an obstacle.
So many of us, you know, I mean,part of me was like, is there
really even living beyond the shadow of a doubt?
That's what I love. That's why I like to open this
(42:35):
conversation because doubt has, you know, traditionally been
cast in such a negative light. And I just love exploring what
does it actually mean? And when someone says I know
such and such thing beyond the shadow of a doubt, what, what is
it they're really saying? And is that really possible or
(42:56):
just I love having conversation,trying to open up productive
dialogue around these concepts that we've given so much power
to? So yeah, I think when someone
says that, I think what it meansis I do not feel ashamed of my
belief or my feeling in this thing.
God that's that's a great point.I've not heard it described that
(43:19):
way. So I want to leave your contact
info in the show notes so that folks, if they wanted to reach
out to you with questions or, you know, interested more about
your work, what would be the easiest way for them to do that?
Yeah. Honestly, probably the easiest
(43:40):
way is to e-mail me podcast@danitabremer.com.
OK I have a website danitabremer.com.
There's contact info on there. Can explore more about what
ioffer. It's not always 100% up to date,
but it is probably good to know that I am not on social media
this year. Yes, I may return in the future,
(44:03):
I have not decided yet. But I also do want to mention
that I have my own podcast. Yes, please do, I'm so blessed.
Why can't I feel good? So you can get to know me a
little. Bit more be a way to definitely
connect with you. We'll make sure and leave that
in the show notes. So I just have a few for fun
questions to throw out. Just looking for one to two word
answers so we can just get to know you a little better.
(44:24):
Tell us your favorite book, or afavorite book if if one is too
hard. It's going to be cliche, but I
love Harry Potter. It's not.
It is fun. It's it's kind of timeless.
Tell us, are you an introvert oran extrovert?
I am an introvert. I think I I knew that.
And tell us who your favorite artist is.
(44:45):
Oh, favorite artist I don't havelike a favorite famous artist,
but my daughter is an artist, soI'll.
Just say her that works. Is she paint, Sketch, musician?
Oil painting is her main. Painting.
Love it. OK, are you a night owl or
morning lark? I'm a night owl who wants to be
(45:07):
a morning lark. I relate to that.
OK, until it's your celebrity crush, if you have one.
Oh, celebrity crush. I've not really ever been a
person who has had celebrity crushes, partly because between
the ages of nine and 14 I lived without electricity, so we
(45:28):
didn't have TV during those veryimportant years.
Oh, but if I had to pick one, I might say Pierce Brosnan.
OK, that tells you a lot about my type in men.
That works. Do you do still or carbonated
water or diet soda or some otherfun beverage still?
(45:49):
Water almost 100% of the time. Good for you.
And then finally, the furthest place you've travelled.
We lived in Europe for a year. Fun.
So the furthest place I've travelled I'd have to look at a
map, but it might be Greece or Croatia, I don't know which one
is. I'm not sure which is further.
(46:11):
Yeah, so close together, but they both sound like fun places
to visit. I haven't yet hope to, but
Danita, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for making
time in your schedule, being flexible and meeting with me
today. Yeah.
Thank you for having me, it's been lovely.
It has writer, teacher, author, Mormon scholar and founder of
(46:36):
Dialogue Journal Eugene England said My faith encourages my
curiosity and awe, thrusts me out into relationship with all
creation, and encourages me to enter into dialogue.
As a proud member of the Dialogue Podcast Network, my
hope is that Living Beyond the Shadow of Doubt podcast is an
extension of that vision. Hopeful Spaces is a Dallas Hope
(47:09):
Charities component of Hopeful Discussions.
Sponsored by Mercedes-Benz Financial Services USA.
It's a free monthly parent, allyor caregiver support group
facilitated by megan.skidmorecoachingemailchc@dallashopecharities.org
for more info. Visit meganskidmorecoaching.com
(47:34):
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including the link for a complimentary coaching session.
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