August 9, 2024 • 20 mins
Welcome to this episode of Living Well with Robin Stoloff, where we delve into the vital connection between athletic success and mindset with Dr. Peter Economou, a renowned author and sports psychologist who heads a behavioral health and wellness program at Rutgers University.
In this enlightening discussion, Dr. Pete shares his insights on how mindfulness and mental health significantly impact performance on and off the field. The conversation covers a range of topics, including the common mental health issues faced by student-athletes, such as depression, anxiety, and body image concerns, and how these issues mirror those experienced by the general public.
Dr. Pete emphasizes the importance of meditation and mindfulness practices in enhancing emotional intelligence and cognitive function, not only for athletes but for everyone. He also highlights the benefits of communal activities and the role of emotional awareness in maintaining cognitive health as we age.
Tune in to discover practical tips on incorporating mindfulness into your daily routine and hear inspiring stories of athletes who have transformed their performance through mental training. Whether you're a top athlete or someone looking to improve your mental well-being, this episode offers valuable insights for all.
Don't miss out on this chance to learn to master your mind to achieve greater success and well-being. Be sure to like, subscribe, and leave a review to stay updated on our latest episodes. Until next time, keep living well!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
No doubt there is a strong connection between athletic success and mindset.
In fact, it can make the difference between gold, silver, or bronze in the highly
competitive Olympics or success in any sport.
Today we dive into mindfulness, mental health, and how it plays a role in performance
on and off the court or field.
Hello and welcome to Living Well with Robin Stoloff, empowering you to live
(00:23):
a healthier life. I am so pleased to welcome author and sports psychologist, Dr.
Peter Ekenumu, who leads a behavioral health and wellness program at Rutgers University.
Dr. Pete, as he is affectionately known, provides crucial support to student
athletes, and he joins us now. Thank you so much for being with me.
(00:45):
Thanks for having me, Robin. This is going to be great. Absolutely.
So talk to me about some of the issues that you address with these student athletes,
how you go about it, and how we can use some of what you do and relate it to our own lives.
Yeah, you know, it's like life is sport. You know, a good colleague,
friend of mine wrote that Jonathan Fader, a book called Life is Sport. And it's true.
(01:07):
I mean, everything we're doing, if you really think about it,
we're all trying to be our best selves.
And there's a lot of competition, you know, starts with siblings and any kind
of workplace is going to create some kind of healthy competition.
And, you know, and so that's really where this comes down to.
The athletes that we work with are struggling with the things that all your
listeners are struggling with.
(01:28):
I mean, that's the reality of it is everybody is swimming in the same flavored
soup, you know, like everybody that's, that's one of the metaphors is,
you know, it's the sort of Eastern idea that everything and everyone is suffering.
And so the people's first for in a weird way, when we watch sports,
we think that our athletes are our favorite athletes are not, but they are.
(01:48):
Absolutely. And I think we know when, say, a baseball player goes into a slump
or somebody just isn't performing, they have the athletic ability.
We've seen them do it. So what is it? Sometimes it's just something in between their ears.
And you really work with your students there at Rutgers to help them figure that out.
And it's not just success on the field, but also in their classroom and their
(02:09):
lives, because there's a lot of pressure being an athlete.
There is a lot of pressure. And so I think, you know, I,
I work across multiple universities and all the professional leagues and,
but I do really love that I'm, you know, one of two research professors also within athletics at,
you know, a power five research one Institute being Rutgers,
but I have to give a shout out to Seton Hall because 15 years ago was where
(02:33):
I started this and is on this pathway to develop a sports psychology program.
But I'm passionate about the student athlete because.
Having worked with executives and professional athletes, I'm not you can teach
an old dog new trick straight up like you can.
But if we if we can get it at the NCA level, I think that we can intervene earlier
(02:54):
and really have a healthier,
you know, adult or like working professional once they're done with their sport,
because the you know, the bottom line is very few, like small percentage,
maybe one to 2% of student athletes become professional athletes,
you know, and even less of them can actually make a living on it.
And so we know that that's what's helpful is like the degree and every,
(03:15):
all the, you know, relationships and connections that you build are probably
equally as helpful to the sport and that resilience grit that we develop as athletes.
What are some of the issues that you address with these athletes?
So depression, anxiety, you know, any trauma, those are probably,
you know, some of the, some of the main issues that we see, body image and eating
(03:38):
issues, other sort of behavioral concerns around that.
It's curious time right now. Sports wagering has absolutely blown up.
And so I think that that's also the stress of social media.
So really just this impact that today's world has had on behavioral health,
both mentally, emotionally, cognitively, psychologically.
(04:01):
So it really, it's kind of this gamut of stuff.
One thing I like to think about is like life is a spectrum. And so we might
be working on those things, but we may also be working on just being a better
athlete or a better person or a better, you know, partner or son.
So it really is the spectrum of like, I'm struggling with something like deep
and real to, I just want to be better and learn some like amazing mental skills.
(04:25):
Right. Absolutely. And we all can use that even every one of us,
whether we're a top athlete or not.
So how are the students about coming to you? Do you find that they're a little hesitant?
Are we getting over the stigma of taking care of our mental health?
If you broke your leg, you'd go to the doctor to get that fixed.
Why not? Why do we seem that, you know, we can't give our mind the same amount
(04:49):
of credit or the same amount out of attention?
It's a great question, Robin. And I do think we have gotten over that hump.
I do believe that we have worked hard to destigmatize.
And that's why I think I remember to your point, if you broke your leg, you went to the doctor.
But I remember when I first started this, it was taboo. I was down at the end
(05:10):
of the hallway and people didn't want to talk to me. Now.
You know, I'm in, I'm in team meetings. I'm coming to talk with the,
you know, the team I'm, you know, I'm just around. You made it normal.
You made it normal. Just like you would go to your trainer.
This is a trainer for your mind. If you get it that way, that's just as important.
We know sports psychologists are all over for, you know, major professional athletes.
(05:35):
It's really important for them to, you know, to their mind as well as their body has to be in shape.
So tell me, like, I know you can't name a student or whatever,
but just tell me, you know, an example of someone that you might've helped and what the process is.
Well, I mean, I'll give, you know, you opened the segment with talking about
the Olympics a bit like, you know, gold, silver, and bronze.
(05:55):
And so in this beautiful Olympic time, I think, you know, just shout out to
the sacrifice that they give.
And really there has been a shout out to the role of sports psychologists in many of these athletes,
Lyle's Noah, who just won the a hundred meter, you know, from America for men's
Simone Biles, you know, lots of attention to her therapist. Yeah.
(06:17):
You know, and so that, you know, that's, that's what we're working with.
You know, my, my colleagues across the country and myself are working with the people at that level.
I mean, that's what we, that's what we do. And it's really a blessing to be able to do it.
Absolutely. I mean, you can really change some of the path of someone's life.
And you're a big proponent of taking time and really sitting and thinking on your own.
(06:44):
You're a big proponent of that. Talk to us a little bit about that.
High performers are always trying to seek to get to the next level. And that's a good thing.
And you can't get there until you accept where you are.
And so I think that's important for people to really sit with that and to hear that.
Because we are in a society today where you get in the car, you get home,
(07:06):
the first thing you do is turn on the radio or turn on the TV. Yes.
You might do that too, Robin. I don't know if you don't.
I try to get my workout in first. Yeah.
So you know we are afraid
of stillness because the culture that we live in says
phones and devices allow for us to have access to
(07:27):
information immediately yeah you
know it's yes we're we're addicted to that oh my gosh my 20 year old daughter
i mean her head is down all the time i only see the top of her head it's just
if there's downtime she picks up her phone it's like and i think so many of
us do it i mean it's just like an automatic habit but you're being on meditation reputation.
(07:48):
I am. And Robin, I say, and I think you'll appreciate this.
Like your daughter doesn't know how to be bored. You know, like that's the thing
about this culture is they don't know how to be bored.
You and I had to wait online without a phone in our pocket. How did we survive?
You know, like you had to deal with a plane delay. You had to deal with,
(08:09):
you know, somebody paying with a check at the grocery store
and writing it out and like it's an
immediate culture it's immediate i want we need satisfaction
is that you know benmo there's no check there's a memo there's paypal you know
it's you're right and it's and it i think it does make people's mind almost
(08:29):
go a million miles an hour instead of just blowing it down just slowing it down
you know meditation I think you have, you still on meditation Monday.
I sure do. Yes. And how does that work? What do you do with that?
Well, you know, we try and we also have, I think you would appreciate wellness
Wednesdays. And so just, you know, the work of work on words to get people in
(08:53):
and some's for staff, some's for coaches, some's for athletes.
And so like a meditation Monday is an opportunity for either someone to come and learn how to,
or for those with the practice to find like to have
a space in the community to come do it so you know
we have the zafus and zabutans i i was
trained i've studied for 15 years almost a little
bit more in zen buddhism with my teacher and
(09:16):
it's been a beautiful gift to share it you know it's it's really it's non-secular
so whatever someone's religious identity is it fits within it it's it's a beautiful
adjunct to life you know prayer or anything else that somebody has they can
do it And it's just, it's an opportunity to,
you know, for athletes or high performers to exercise their brain.
(09:37):
So, you know, I'll ask listeners to think about what have you done to exercise your brain?
And we don't do as much like you talked about, you know, making sure you get
your exercise, like your workout in before you transition.
You know, what are we doing for our brain? And I don't think most of us are
not giving it the same amount of attention that we're giving our body.
Absolutely not. It's changing because I've done many interviews with mental
(10:00):
health professionals, and I know it is changing, but it certainly isn't.
You know, we are not focusing on that.
And how can meditation, I'm going to be honest, I've tried to meditate.
I don't even know if I'm doing it right or not. I'm sitting still, and I'm trying.
I know they say you're never good. You always have to think about something.
(10:20):
It's not like your mind goes blank, but you want to just push thoughts away,
right? Isn't that sort of what it is?
Well, no, I'm not sure. It's not not that. It's a double negative.
I think what we really are trying to do is to allow them to come in and to allow them to pass away.
(10:41):
I don't want to push them away because that takes energy.
And physics has taught us that we get equal energy back.
So if I'm pushing away, it's coming back with equal to greater force.
That's the way I think about it.
So, and there's also Robin, no right or wrong way.
So that's, I think a key factor. There will be people I'm sure that you've even
(11:02):
interviewed that will say, this is the way to do it.
I think my cognitive and psychological flexibility, which has come with my practice
says, there's no right or wrong way and whatever works for somebody that's cool.
Like, and so you got to find what works for you.
So like, if you're somebody that, you know, sits there and doesn't know if they're doing it right.
And they spend so much, that makes them anxious, maybe a guided in meditation,
(11:24):
you know, maybe some music, maybe some sound bowls, you know,
maybe hiking, you know, like, yes, I'm more of a movement person.
I'd rather maybe walk on the beach and meditate that way. Right.
Yeah. That could be it. Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that, that's kind of works more for me if I'm out in nature,
that's my thing rather than just sitting still, you know, I get a little, I don't know what it is.
(11:48):
I get a little rammy and maybe it's just, I haven't done it enough.
So some people have said to me, it's just like anything else.
You're going to go out and play tennis one day, your first day and be great
at it. You have to practice. That's right.
And yoga is part of that as well, right? I mean, there's sort of a mind that with yoga.
Yeah, yoga is an active way. I think, you know, most professional teams now
(12:10):
have yoga at least once a week.
Sometimes it's optional. Most of the times it's not optional. It's a team activity.
So like, I do think these, you know, the billion dollar industry in sports and
and sports science has realized, you know, the impact that the mind and wellness has on performance.
And so why don't we also do that, you know, but you don't need a fancy membership,
(12:31):
and you don't need a billion dollars to do this.
And one of your quotes, you said, there's little else we can do that can change
our brains, change our mind.
And how did that work? What does it actually do?
Well, it's a really great question because, you know, this is sort of,
that's where like modern medicine is really amazing.
It's the first time that we could really blend East and West where we can take
(12:53):
these like Eastern practices like meditation and take Western science where
we could actually image the brain, like do a functional MRI and see how the brain changes.
And we see that there's like skeletal kind of gray matter shifts occur.
There's density improves areas of emotional regulation, like the amygdala, the nucleus will shift.
Now, these are all like intangibles because I can't, you know,
(13:16):
I could see my bicep in the mirror, but I can't see my amygdala change,
but we know it is happening.
And so I think that that's what's key is. So that's part of the educational
piece that I'll bring to, you know, coaches or athletes and say like,
this is, you know, like in the 80s, this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs.
Well, now we can actually like show what the brain looks like after it's meditated.
(13:38):
And there's a, you know, significant evidence that it's improving,
you know, the neurological pathways and the functionality of the brain overall.
That really, that is incredible.
Is there any connection to that and, you know, maintaining cognitive ability as you get older? Sure.
Really good question. So no. So because we've really, we've been studying the
(14:01):
brain just for about 15, 20 years, believe it or not. That's amazing. Yeah.
Whereas we, yeah, I mean, we've, you know, if you think about,
we've been like open heart surgery over a hundred years ago.
So we understand some of this stuff a lot more.
And if anyone's ever had an MRI, you know, that it takes an entire room for
that machine to take a picture of any part of your body.
(14:23):
That's what computers used to look like in the 80s so
you know it's a really good sort of way to think about how this
is evolving like in front of our eyes so and there's this there's a very famous
study called the nun study and this came out of oh god what's that ohio my the
mayo clinic so it is the largest study of controlled brains and what happened
(14:45):
was the the the the nuns that had the higher emotional intelligence,
they preserved their brain as they aged more.
Whereas the nuns that maybe demonstrated a little lower emotional intelligence,
they ended up developing dementia or those cognitive deficits from the outside,
(15:05):
the phenotype that we see.
And one of the main protective factors was the communal prayer and community.
So we need community. We are communal We need emotional awareness and intelligence
and understanding and insight.
But all of that to say, you know, phenotypically, like a nun that was maybe
(15:28):
presenting with dementia, sometimes her brain posthumously was gorgeous.
You know, there was no neurofibrillary or no tangles. And the reverse was true.
So that somebody that actually had like was presenting as like totally intact,
her brain was full of neuro tangles.
So it just tells us that we don't really know enough yet to understand how some
(15:51):
of this neurology is actually affecting behavior.
That is mind-blowing. It really is. It's mind-blowing to think about it.
And hopefully we'll get a handle on it and, you know, down the road maybe find
a cure for dementia and Alzheimer's and so forth.
I remember going a little off track, but I think, you know, people listening,
everybody wants to grow older and, you know, develop well and function well
(16:17):
and have their brain function.
So it's important for everyone, especially athletes, if they're getting concussions
or they're getting hit in the head.
I mean, that, that I know is a factor as well.
Yeah. Well, and I think just to keep it back on task is that,
you know, meditating with a group of people is that communal thing,
you know, meditation provides emotional intelligence and awareness and insight.
(16:39):
So there's evidence that by doing that, then you're, you're less likely to develop the dementia.
And I think over the next five or 10 years, we'll probably
be able to like qualify that with some of the imaging
studies and you brought up concussion so that
is a certain concern and one of my studies now is looking
at using meditation as a as a
mediating factor you know to the brain resolving the concussion at a faster
(17:03):
rate by somebody who is meditating versus someone who's not meditating so again
we don't know the answer to it yet so it's going to be cool to see like what
the science tells us it's very very interesting it's amazing really and your
book is sitting on the shelf behind you. Talk to me about that.
You actually help people. I could probably use that.
Really learn how to meditate. I'll send you a copy.
(17:24):
But yeah, it's the Mindfulness Workbook for Beginners. I mean,
it is, the publishers told me, the only or first book out there that's general.
A lot of mindfulness workbooks are specific to, you know, dementia,
depression, anxiety, eating disorders.
This is a very general how-to. You know, so if someone is thinking about maybe
developing a mindfulness practice, which for me, mindfulness is the umbrella.
(17:48):
That could be the hiking or the beach.
Meditation is only one way to get there. So there's lots of different ways you
could think about being mindful.
And it is the practice of mindfulness that contributes to all the benefits that
I've mentioned so far today.
And what is the name of your book? I see it behind you, but I can't read it.
The Mindfulness Workbook for Beginners.
Mindfulness Workbook for Beginners. And you can get that on Amazon?
(18:10):
You sure can. That would help everyone.
So in closing, we talked about a lot of subjects here. What can we take away?
What can we walk away? I know what I need to do. I need to start meditating.
I know because I just feel like it would, I know someone that does it every
morning. She said it has changed her life.
She does it like 20 minutes in the morning. Not a big deal.
(18:33):
It doesn't take a lot, but she said it changed her life.
And you know, most people are running out the door in the morning.
That 20 minutes is like, that's precious time getting the kids off to school.
So it's a matter of getting yourself up earlier than everyone else and doing it then. Yes. You know.
Yeah. Yeah. So the advice is just to take that next step. I mean,
it doesn't have to be 20 minutes, Robin. It could be just while you're brushing your teeth tonight.
(18:57):
You know, like you could build it into something that you're already doing,
make it more accessible.
And then once you start to see that there are certain benefits of it,
you might sort of consider the way that you can integrate and cultivate that in your life.
But it just takes one step. That's it. it yes yes and
it's so good for the athletes because especially if you have
someone as i mentioned earlier in a slump or if
(19:18):
they have they have a bad play or something goes wrong a
bad game or whatever it is you they can spiral they could really spiral and
yeah i mean and all of us can spiral and you know like a child can make someone
spy you know a boss can make you spiral a partner can make you spiral so life
can make you spiral meditation can help you just from spiraling That's fantastic.
(19:39):
I just love that. Again, the book's name?
Mindfulness Workbook for Beginners. I love it. All right. Thank you so much
for joining me, Dr. Pete. You are amazing, really.
Thank you, Robin. Appreciate it. Dr. Pete Ekenumu, also known as just Dr. Pete.
Thank you so much for joining me. And thank you for being with me,
for Living Well with Robin Stoloff, empowering you to live a healthier life.
(20:01):
Be sure to like and subscribe and give me a review and stay updated on my most recent an episode.
Until I see you next time, keep living well.
No doubt there is a strong connection between athletic success and mindset.
In fact, it can make the difference between gold, silver, or bronze in the highly
competitive Olympics or success in any sport.
Today we dive into mindfulness, mental health, and how it plays a role in performance
on and off the court or field.
Hello and welcome to Living Well with Robin Stoloff, empowering you to live
(00:23):
a healthier life. I am so pleased to welcome author and sports psychologist, Dr.
Peter Ekenumu, who leads a behavioral health and wellness program at Rutgers University.
Dr. Pete, as he is affectionately known, provides crucial support to student
athletes, and he joins us now. Thank you so much for being with me.
(00:45):
Thanks for having me, Robin. This is going to be great. Absolutely.
So talk to me about some of the issues that you address with these student athletes,
how you go about it, and how we can use some of what you do and relate it to our own lives.
Yeah, you know, it's like life is sport. You know, a good colleague,
friend of mine wrote that Jonathan Fader, a book called Life is Sport. And it's true.
(01:07):
I mean, everything we're doing, if you really think about it,
we're all trying to be our best selves.
And there's a lot of competition, you know, starts with siblings and any kind
of workplace is going to create some kind of healthy competition.
And, you know, and so that's really where this comes down to.
The athletes that we work with are struggling with the things that all your
listeners are struggling with.
(01:28):
I mean, that's the reality of it is everybody is swimming in the same flavored
soup, you know, like everybody that's, that's one of the metaphors is,
you know, it's the sort of Eastern idea that everything and everyone is suffering.
And so the people's first for in a weird way, when we watch sports,
we think that our athletes are our favorite athletes are not, but they are.
(01:48):
Absolutely. And I think we know when, say, a baseball player goes into a slump
or somebody just isn't performing, they have the athletic ability.
We've seen them do it. So what is it? Sometimes it's just something in between their ears.
And you really work with your students there at Rutgers to help them figure that out.
And it's not just success on the field, but also in their classroom and their
(02:09):
lives, because there's a lot of pressure being an athlete.
There is a lot of pressure. And so I think, you know, I,
I work across multiple universities and all the professional leagues and,
but I do really love that I'm, you know, one of two research professors also within athletics at,
you know, a power five research one Institute being Rutgers,
but I have to give a shout out to Seton Hall because 15 years ago was where
(02:33):
I started this and is on this pathway to develop a sports psychology program.
But I'm passionate about the student athlete because.
Having worked with executives and professional athletes, I'm not you can teach
an old dog new trick straight up like you can.
But if we if we can get it at the NCA level, I think that we can intervene earlier
(02:54):
and really have a healthier,
you know, adult or like working professional once they're done with their sport,
because the you know, the bottom line is very few, like small percentage,
maybe one to 2% of student athletes become professional athletes,
you know, and even less of them can actually make a living on it.
And so we know that that's what's helpful is like the degree and every,
(03:15):
all the, you know, relationships and connections that you build are probably
equally as helpful to the sport and that resilience grit that we develop as athletes.
What are some of the issues that you address with these athletes?
So depression, anxiety, you know, any trauma, those are probably,
you know, some of the, some of the main issues that we see, body image and eating
(03:38):
issues, other sort of behavioral concerns around that.
It's curious time right now. Sports wagering has absolutely blown up.
And so I think that that's also the stress of social media.
So really just this impact that today's world has had on behavioral health,
both mentally, emotionally, cognitively, psychologically.
(04:01):
So it really, it's kind of this gamut of stuff.
One thing I like to think about is like life is a spectrum. And so we might
be working on those things, but we may also be working on just being a better
athlete or a better person or a better, you know, partner or son.
So it really is the spectrum of like, I'm struggling with something like deep
and real to, I just want to be better and learn some like amazing mental skills.
(04:25):
Right. Absolutely. And we all can use that even every one of us,
whether we're a top athlete or not.
So how are the students about coming to you? Do you find that they're a little hesitant?
Are we getting over the stigma of taking care of our mental health?
If you broke your leg, you'd go to the doctor to get that fixed.
Why not? Why do we seem that, you know, we can't give our mind the same amount
(04:49):
of credit or the same amount out of attention?
It's a great question, Robin. And I do think we have gotten over that hump.
I do believe that we have worked hard to destigmatize.
And that's why I think I remember to your point, if you broke your leg, you went to the doctor.
But I remember when I first started this, it was taboo. I was down at the end
(05:10):
of the hallway and people didn't want to talk to me. Now.
You know, I'm in, I'm in team meetings. I'm coming to talk with the,
you know, the team I'm, you know, I'm just around. You made it normal.
You made it normal. Just like you would go to your trainer.
This is a trainer for your mind. If you get it that way, that's just as important.
We know sports psychologists are all over for, you know, major professional athletes.
(05:35):
It's really important for them to, you know, to their mind as well as their body has to be in shape.
So tell me, like, I know you can't name a student or whatever,
but just tell me, you know, an example of someone that you might've helped and what the process is.
Well, I mean, I'll give, you know, you opened the segment with talking about
the Olympics a bit like, you know, gold, silver, and bronze.
(05:55):
And so in this beautiful Olympic time, I think, you know, just shout out to
the sacrifice that they give.
And really there has been a shout out to the role of sports psychologists in many of these athletes,
Lyle's Noah, who just won the a hundred meter, you know, from America for men's
Simone Biles, you know, lots of attention to her therapist. Yeah.
(06:17):
You know, and so that, you know, that's, that's what we're working with.
You know, my, my colleagues across the country and myself are working with the people at that level.
I mean, that's what we, that's what we do. And it's really a blessing to be able to do it.
Absolutely. I mean, you can really change some of the path of someone's life.
And you're a big proponent of taking time and really sitting and thinking on your own.
(06:44):
You're a big proponent of that. Talk to us a little bit about that.
High performers are always trying to seek to get to the next level. And that's a good thing.
And you can't get there until you accept where you are.
And so I think that's important for people to really sit with that and to hear that.
Because we are in a society today where you get in the car, you get home,
(07:06):
the first thing you do is turn on the radio or turn on the TV. Yes.
You might do that too, Robin. I don't know if you don't.
I try to get my workout in first. Yeah.
So you know we are afraid
of stillness because the culture that we live in says
phones and devices allow for us to have access to
(07:27):
information immediately yeah you
know it's yes we're we're addicted to that oh my gosh my 20 year old daughter
i mean her head is down all the time i only see the top of her head it's just
if there's downtime she picks up her phone it's like and i think so many of
us do it i mean it's just like an automatic habit but you're being on meditation reputation.
(07:48):
I am. And Robin, I say, and I think you'll appreciate this.
Like your daughter doesn't know how to be bored. You know, like that's the thing
about this culture is they don't know how to be bored.
You and I had to wait online without a phone in our pocket. How did we survive?
You know, like you had to deal with a plane delay. You had to deal with,
(08:09):
you know, somebody paying with a check at the grocery store
and writing it out and like it's an
immediate culture it's immediate i want we need satisfaction
is that you know benmo there's no check there's a memo there's paypal you know
it's you're right and it's and it i think it does make people's mind almost
(08:29):
go a million miles an hour instead of just blowing it down just slowing it down
you know meditation I think you have, you still on meditation Monday.
I sure do. Yes. And how does that work? What do you do with that?
Well, you know, we try and we also have, I think you would appreciate wellness
Wednesdays. And so just, you know, the work of work on words to get people in
(08:53):
and some's for staff, some's for coaches, some's for athletes.
And so like a meditation Monday is an opportunity for either someone to come and learn how to,
or for those with the practice to find like to have
a space in the community to come do it so you know
we have the zafus and zabutans i i was
trained i've studied for 15 years almost a little
bit more in zen buddhism with my teacher and
(09:16):
it's been a beautiful gift to share it you know it's it's really it's non-secular
so whatever someone's religious identity is it fits within it it's it's a beautiful
adjunct to life you know prayer or anything else that somebody has they can
do it And it's just, it's an opportunity to,
you know, for athletes or high performers to exercise their brain.
(09:37):
So, you know, I'll ask listeners to think about what have you done to exercise your brain?
And we don't do as much like you talked about, you know, making sure you get
your exercise, like your workout in before you transition.
You know, what are we doing for our brain? And I don't think most of us are
not giving it the same amount of attention that we're giving our body.
Absolutely not. It's changing because I've done many interviews with mental
(10:00):
health professionals, and I know it is changing, but it certainly isn't.
You know, we are not focusing on that.
And how can meditation, I'm going to be honest, I've tried to meditate.
I don't even know if I'm doing it right or not. I'm sitting still, and I'm trying.
I know they say you're never good. You always have to think about something.
(10:20):
It's not like your mind goes blank, but you want to just push thoughts away,
right? Isn't that sort of what it is?
Well, no, I'm not sure. It's not not that. It's a double negative.
I think what we really are trying to do is to allow them to come in and to allow them to pass away.
(10:41):
I don't want to push them away because that takes energy.
And physics has taught us that we get equal energy back.
So if I'm pushing away, it's coming back with equal to greater force.
That's the way I think about it.
So, and there's also Robin, no right or wrong way.
So that's, I think a key factor. There will be people I'm sure that you've even
(11:02):
interviewed that will say, this is the way to do it.
I think my cognitive and psychological flexibility, which has come with my practice
says, there's no right or wrong way and whatever works for somebody that's cool.
Like, and so you got to find what works for you.
So like, if you're somebody that, you know, sits there and doesn't know if they're doing it right.
And they spend so much, that makes them anxious, maybe a guided in meditation,
(11:24):
you know, maybe some music, maybe some sound bowls, you know,
maybe hiking, you know, like, yes, I'm more of a movement person.
I'd rather maybe walk on the beach and meditate that way. Right.
Yeah. That could be it. Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that, that's kind of works more for me if I'm out in nature,
that's my thing rather than just sitting still, you know, I get a little, I don't know what it is.
(11:48):
I get a little rammy and maybe it's just, I haven't done it enough.
So some people have said to me, it's just like anything else.
You're going to go out and play tennis one day, your first day and be great
at it. You have to practice. That's right.
And yoga is part of that as well, right? I mean, there's sort of a mind that with yoga.
Yeah, yoga is an active way. I think, you know, most professional teams now
(12:10):
have yoga at least once a week.
Sometimes it's optional. Most of the times it's not optional. It's a team activity.
So like, I do think these, you know, the billion dollar industry in sports and
and sports science has realized, you know, the impact that the mind and wellness has on performance.
And so why don't we also do that, you know, but you don't need a fancy membership,
(12:31):
and you don't need a billion dollars to do this.
And one of your quotes, you said, there's little else we can do that can change
our brains, change our mind.
And how did that work? What does it actually do?
Well, it's a really great question because, you know, this is sort of,
that's where like modern medicine is really amazing.
It's the first time that we could really blend East and West where we can take
(12:53):
these like Eastern practices like meditation and take Western science where
we could actually image the brain, like do a functional MRI and see how the brain changes.
And we see that there's like skeletal kind of gray matter shifts occur.
There's density improves areas of emotional regulation, like the amygdala, the nucleus will shift.
Now, these are all like intangibles because I can't, you know,
(13:16):
I could see my bicep in the mirror, but I can't see my amygdala change,
but we know it is happening.
And so I think that that's what's key is. So that's part of the educational
piece that I'll bring to, you know, coaches or athletes and say like,
this is, you know, like in the 80s, this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs.
Well, now we can actually like show what the brain looks like after it's meditated.
(13:38):
And there's a, you know, significant evidence that it's improving,
you know, the neurological pathways and the functionality of the brain overall.
That really, that is incredible.
Is there any connection to that and, you know, maintaining cognitive ability as you get older? Sure.
Really good question. So no. So because we've really, we've been studying the
(14:01):
brain just for about 15, 20 years, believe it or not. That's amazing. Yeah.
Whereas we, yeah, I mean, we've, you know, if you think about,
we've been like open heart surgery over a hundred years ago.
So we understand some of this stuff a lot more.
And if anyone's ever had an MRI, you know, that it takes an entire room for
that machine to take a picture of any part of your body.
(14:23):
That's what computers used to look like in the 80s so
you know it's a really good sort of way to think about how this
is evolving like in front of our eyes so and there's this there's a very famous
study called the nun study and this came out of oh god what's that ohio my the
mayo clinic so it is the largest study of controlled brains and what happened
(14:45):
was the the the the nuns that had the higher emotional intelligence,
they preserved their brain as they aged more.
Whereas the nuns that maybe demonstrated a little lower emotional intelligence,
they ended up developing dementia or those cognitive deficits from the outside,
(15:05):
the phenotype that we see.
And one of the main protective factors was the communal prayer and community.
So we need community. We are communal We need emotional awareness and intelligence
and understanding and insight.
But all of that to say, you know, phenotypically, like a nun that was maybe
(15:28):
presenting with dementia, sometimes her brain posthumously was gorgeous.
You know, there was no neurofibrillary or no tangles. And the reverse was true.
So that somebody that actually had like was presenting as like totally intact,
her brain was full of neuro tangles.
So it just tells us that we don't really know enough yet to understand how some
(15:51):
of this neurology is actually affecting behavior.
That is mind-blowing. It really is. It's mind-blowing to think about it.
And hopefully we'll get a handle on it and, you know, down the road maybe find
a cure for dementia and Alzheimer's and so forth.
I remember going a little off track, but I think, you know, people listening,
everybody wants to grow older and, you know, develop well and function well
(16:17):
and have their brain function.
So it's important for everyone, especially athletes, if they're getting concussions
or they're getting hit in the head.
I mean, that, that I know is a factor as well.
Yeah. Well, and I think just to keep it back on task is that,
you know, meditating with a group of people is that communal thing,
you know, meditation provides emotional intelligence and awareness and insight.
(16:39):
So there's evidence that by doing that, then you're, you're less likely to develop the dementia.
And I think over the next five or 10 years, we'll probably
be able to like qualify that with some of the imaging
studies and you brought up concussion so that
is a certain concern and one of my studies now is looking
at using meditation as a as a
mediating factor you know to the brain resolving the concussion at a faster
(17:03):
rate by somebody who is meditating versus someone who's not meditating so again
we don't know the answer to it yet so it's going to be cool to see like what
the science tells us it's very very interesting it's amazing really and your
book is sitting on the shelf behind you. Talk to me about that.
You actually help people. I could probably use that.
Really learn how to meditate. I'll send you a copy.
(17:24):
But yeah, it's the Mindfulness Workbook for Beginners. I mean,
it is, the publishers told me, the only or first book out there that's general.
A lot of mindfulness workbooks are specific to, you know, dementia,
depression, anxiety, eating disorders.
This is a very general how-to. You know, so if someone is thinking about maybe
developing a mindfulness practice, which for me, mindfulness is the umbrella.
(17:48):
That could be the hiking or the beach.
Meditation is only one way to get there. So there's lots of different ways you
could think about being mindful.
And it is the practice of mindfulness that contributes to all the benefits that
I've mentioned so far today.
And what is the name of your book? I see it behind you, but I can't read it.
The Mindfulness Workbook for Beginners.
Mindfulness Workbook for Beginners. And you can get that on Amazon?
(18:10):
You sure can. That would help everyone.
So in closing, we talked about a lot of subjects here. What can we take away?
What can we walk away? I know what I need to do. I need to start meditating.
I know because I just feel like it would, I know someone that does it every
morning. She said it has changed her life.
She does it like 20 minutes in the morning. Not a big deal.
(18:33):
It doesn't take a lot, but she said it changed her life.
And you know, most people are running out the door in the morning.
That 20 minutes is like, that's precious time getting the kids off to school.
So it's a matter of getting yourself up earlier than everyone else and doing it then. Yes. You know.
Yeah. Yeah. So the advice is just to take that next step. I mean,
it doesn't have to be 20 minutes, Robin. It could be just while you're brushing your teeth tonight.
(18:57):
You know, like you could build it into something that you're already doing,
make it more accessible.
And then once you start to see that there are certain benefits of it,
you might sort of consider the way that you can integrate and cultivate that in your life.
But it just takes one step. That's it. it yes yes and
it's so good for the athletes because especially if you have
someone as i mentioned earlier in a slump or if
(19:18):
they have they have a bad play or something goes wrong a
bad game or whatever it is you they can spiral they could really spiral and
yeah i mean and all of us can spiral and you know like a child can make someone
spy you know a boss can make you spiral a partner can make you spiral so life
can make you spiral meditation can help you just from spiraling That's fantastic.
(19:39):
I just love that. Again, the book's name?
Mindfulness Workbook for Beginners. I love it. All right. Thank you so much
for joining me, Dr. Pete. You are amazing, really.
Thank you, Robin. Appreciate it. Dr. Pete Ekenumu, also known as just Dr. Pete.
Thank you so much for joining me. And thank you for being with me,
for Living Well with Robin Stoloff, empowering you to live a healthier life.
(20:01):
Be sure to like and subscribe and give me a review and stay updated on my most recent an episode.
Until I see you next time, keep living well.
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