Today, we're joined by Jackie Dunlap. Jackie is the Broker Owner of Next Generation Home Loans from the Denver Metropolitan Area in Colorado, and is also the Owner of the process and origination training company, The Mortgage Calculator.
Jackie is here to discuss: → Learning how to create processes in your business, growing your business the right way, and tips to get around the pitfall of lots of Loan Officers, making an SOP (standard operating procedure). → Multiple strategies and touch points to wow referral partners. → Why consumers are toddlers, the differences of the perception of money among them, and why you need to build up this base directly.
Jackie Dunlap's Instagram: @jackie_pedia_of_all_trades
Jackie Dunlap's LinkedIn: @JackieDunlap
The Mortgage Calculator YouTube: @TheMortgageCalculator
Learn more about the Direct to Consumer LO Accelerator here.
Loans On Demand Website: www.loansondemand.io
Loans On Demand YouTube: @LoansOnDemand
Loans On Demand Instagram: @loansondemand
Luke Shankula's Facebook: @LukeShankula
Luke Shankula's LinkedIn: @LukeShankula
Luke Shankula's Instagram: @lukeshankula
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
podcast, the show where we flipthe real estate status quo on its
head and put loan officers intothe driver's seat.
We give you all the tools,strategies, resources, and mindset
needed to modernize your mortgagebusiness and thrive.
My name is Luke Shankula, aka LongForm Luke, and this is the Loans
On Demand podcast.
going on?
Welcome to the Loans On Demandpodcast, the show where we help
(00:25):
loan officers flip the status quoon real estate agents.
And I'm excited because today wehave Jackie Dunlap.
She is the president and founderof NextGen Home Loans and also the
Mortgage Calculator TrainingProgram.
I called her the process queenwhen she first got on here.
So she knows everything aboutoperations process, but I'm
excited because I really thinkwe're going to learn a lot on how
(00:46):
to create a process orientedbusiness as a loan originator, but
also we're going to have some funhere.
So welcome to the show.
Thank for having me.
I'm super excited.
Let's go.
All right.
Well, give us a little background.
Obviously I gave you a little bitof a background there, but let's
hear the real story.
Why are you in this industry?
Why are you still in thisindustry, to be honest?
What got you in the industry aswell?
Yeah, so I had just lost my job asa payroll salesperson.
I was looking for work, I reallywanted to get into banking.
(01:08):
In my mind, that would have been ateller.
I was a single mom at the time andtellers, I think made like 725 an
hour.
not going to work.
And my mom came home one day andshe was like, hey, I saw this job
listing on Monster.
I think she just said a mortgage
person.
I think you'd be great at it.
And I was like, well, I'll fill itout.
(01:29):
But, you know, they're not goingto hire somebody like me.
And I got my interview and washired and spent four weeks in
training, hit the floor, was thefirst one in my training class to
close a loan.
Quickly was a top producer within
the next month and the next month,top 5% of the company.
And that led us into 2006.
And then I went through a series
of layoffs at different companiesduring the housing bubble crash.
(01:50):
I a three and a half year stintworking in a family business with
my then husband's HVAC familybusiness.
And then got back into theindustry in 2012.
Was recruited to go work for WellsFargo in 2012.
They were launching a newweb-based processing platform.
They were currently still doingmortgages in 2012 on their
DOS-based system.
So that was real fun.
Yeah.
You know, tab, tab, right, tab,
tab, left.
(02:10):
Right, right.
That's crazy.
That system crashed.
And so they quickly startedalleviating the workforce.
I exit stage right, go into thebroker channel.
I go and work in a correspondent.
So now I'm kind of getting exposed
to different types of lending thatI wasn't aware even existed.
(02:31):
So I did a little bit ofcorrespondent, got some training
as that company transitioned froma franchise branch to a different
franchise branch.
I learned a lot of what I know now
through that training and thenentered into the broker world.
So I'd been in mortgage about fiveyears before I had even understood
what brokering meant.
before I had even understood what
(02:52):
I brokering spent meant.
my first five years in lending, I
spent my first five years inlending, only doing doing
purchases, refis, spared thedaylights out living, of me.
So really my first five years inthe industry was a lot about
learning.
My career background is in
training.
I was a corporate trainer for two
different companies.
So I think naturally, I just, I
wanted to learn and understandbecause I had filled the role of
teaching people before that.
And so it felt really
(03:12):
uncomfortable for me to not knowhow things worked.
After that, getting into thebroker channel and really learning
that I became an independent thirdparty processor for several years.
And I rocked that world.
You know, my loan officers loved
working with me.
I was kind of given heads up on
the largest real estate company inColorado was going to be starting
a mortgage side with an MSA and Ishould get it on the ground level,
(03:35):
did that process them for a whileand then went out on my own.
Well, I had my MLL license inorder to third party originate,
but I started kind of originatingand moving out on my own.
And then in late 2016, I opened myown brokerage.
So we're running on our eighthyear in the brokerage this year.
So a little bit of movement there,but that's awesome.
And that's how you learn.
I mean, at the end of the day, I
talk about this all the time.
(03:57):
My current executive coach, he
brings this up a lot.
And he talks about this concept of
you don't learn your lessons fromsuccess.
You learn your best lessons fromfailures, right?
And so, you know, obviously, therewas a lot of turmoil there and not
necessarily that you wanted to bein.
But, you know, the truth is, Imean, we're in a similar market
now where there's just turmoil,there's things happening, and
there's turnover in terms of, youknow, especially if you're in the
operations type roles, even on asales side, right?
(04:17):
I mean, companies are cutting loanofficers, even if they are
producing loan officers, right?Just depending on where you're at
and things like that, right?So times we're in.
Let's talk a little bit aboutprocess.
I know this might not be the mostsexy thing for most people.
But one of the things that I'velearned, and I'm someone that's
not a process oriented person.
And I learned pretty quickly that
in order to grow a business beyondjust a single grind, sort of
(04:37):
mentality is you have to createstructure and process.
And I don't think it always comesnatural to entrepreneur type of
people, because generallyentrepreneurs that people are big
thinkers, and not so much littledetail oriented people.
So like, when you're trainingpeople on process and SOPs, and
things like that systems, likewhat's kind of the mindset that
you approach that with?Or how do you help them understand
the importance of process?Yeah, a little bit of a unicorn,
(04:57):
right?I am an originator.
I'm an entrepreneur at heart, butI also have this knack for the
process side of it.
So one of the unique things that I
bring to the table is I intimatelyunderstand the struggles that the
people who are the big thinkers,big pictures, the creatives,
right?Great at sales.
I intimately understand thestruggle that we have moving into
this procedure place right havinga system having an sop or an slp
(05:21):
or you know slas any of that youknow acronym language which
basically just means having adocumented an of the things that's
really useful in places like thatis you know we're so good at the
crap that we just know what to doand so the problem is is then when
we start to scale and grow and wehave to train somebody and we get
(05:41):
in this, they were like, oh, it'sjust easier if I do it myself.
Right.
And really when you're operating
at a high function like that,driving into the minutia of doing
a standard operating procedure,like that's so brain just halting
for people who are just go, go,go, go, go.
And that's really more the issue.
It isn't that you can't put it
(06:02):
together.
It's like, I've got to slow my
brain down beyond a place that Ifeel comfortable to write out item
by item by item, because right,we've usually created such a
muscle memory that so much of ithappens just automatically for us.
We were talking before and I said,you know, I liken it to really
successful crafty trades personwho knows their craft, you know,
HVAC, plumbing, electricians.
us. of times they end up leaving a
company and starting their ownbusiness, you know, stereotypical,
(06:23):
right?Like they're the ones that show up
in the white vans and they'regreat at their trade.
But then as loan officers, likewhen we see them come in, it's
like their finances are a mess.
Their tax returns are a mess.
Because they're great at theircraft of doing, you know, HVAC
plumbing, electrical, you know,whether it's concrete, painter, a
tiler, but they don't know the insand outs of running a business.
(06:44):
And I find a lot of loan officersalso fall into that where people
who are big thinkers start abrokerage for the company.
And then it's like, oh, I know howto get all the business in.
And then all of a sudden, we gotall the business and we're like,
shoot, we didn't build thefoundation or the structure to
support all this business.
Now what?
Right?we love to break the business is
what we like to do.
(07:05):
That's basically what I did.
I mean, I thought that I couldjust will my way to the next
level.
And I understood the importance of
it.
But you're right.
I mean, it's not that we aren'tcapable of doing process and
procedure.
It's just that it feels like
watching paint dry.
Like it really feels like, why am
I doing this?I can do it faster.
But the truth is, you're nevergoing to get beyond a certain
point if you don't learn how tocreate systems.
(07:25):
And obviously delegate is anotherthing.
But if you delegate withoutprocesses, you're most likely
going to be disappointed.
You're probably going to burn
through a bunch of people andyou're going to probably blame
them when the truth is it'sprobably unfortunately you.
Most of the time when people failit's a systems process management
leadership problem not a peopleproblem obviously there's
exceptions to that rule but ithink overall most humans want to
succeed they don't want tofreaking come in and screw you
right right but if you don't haveproper expectations and processes
(07:47):
and procedures and i'veexperienced this myself right you
know i have these like loftyexpectations ofy expectations of
people, but like, I didn'tcommunicate them.
I didn't have the processes.
I didn't have, you know, it's
like, just figure it out becausethat's who I am.
I figured stuff out, but noteverybody's like that.
So how do you sort of train that?how do you sort of train that?
Well, so here's the other thing tokeep in mind too, you know, in our
business as loan originators, ourname is our brand.
(08:09):
Our name is reputation.
And so if you're great at selling
and you're great at getting theapp and you're great at having the
conversation in order to keep yourpartners, your real estate
partners, your referral partners,or your clients referring you, you
get into trouble when you don'thave processes in place.
Right.
And then it's what happens is
you're juggling all these ballsand inevitably you're going to
have to let one go to go deal withsomething over here because it's
(08:30):
not in the workflow or it's partof that paint drying.
Right.
I remember being as a loan
officer, you know, it got to thepoint where like doing things like
ordering title and insurance wasone of those, like, it just got to
the point where it was like, soannoying to deal with.
Right.
And in that place, like you said,
you know, you're going to get sobusy where you're not going to be
able to handle it all.
But also there's a decision to be
made about how much volume do youreally want?
(08:50):
It's so easy in this industry thatwhen volume is there to just say
yes.
And before you know it, you're
running at a speed that you haveno business running at or any
desire to.
So in 2020, I was on stage at Fuse
and I said, hey, it's okay to be asmall boutique brokerage.
But you have to make that decisionand then know what your
limitations are, right?easy But And there were a number
of people that came up to meafterwards and said, I really
(09:14):
needed to hear that.
Because it's really easy to
compare yourself to those aroundyou and say, oh man, I'm supposed
to be closing 20 units a monthbecause so-and-so that I see and
look up to is closing 20.
So for me, somehow now that means
success.
Well, really what is success,
right?It's being able to perform on
time, provide the service at thelevel that you say you're going to
to your clients and your realestate partners.
(09:35):
So how do we do things like that?I have two kids that have special
needs under the dyslexia umbrella.
And one of the tools that has been
available to them that I was like,this is actually a really amazing
tool is talking into Well, dothings like talk into Google, some
of their project instead oftyping, because that works better
for them.
And so some of the things that we
can do for us transitioning into,right?
Like if you ask me to tell you orgive you a 10 step, how do you do
(09:59):
this?I'm going to put that thing off so
hard because the amount that Ihave to slow down my brain to
actually do that and think aboutstep by step by step, because I've
been doing this 20 years, mymuscle memory does stuff that, you
know, I just know how to go in anddo it.
One of the tools that's reallyhelpful for those of you that are
thinking about scaling or need toget a standard operating procedure
(10:20):
or just a simple workflow inplace, written and documented is
when you're telling somebody elseor talk to Google Sheets, like
you're telling somebody else whatyou would do, and it will record
all of that, then get a virtualassistant, send that stuff to a
virtual assistant and have themtype it out.
Then you can take that first editand read it and make the edits.
(10:42):
That's all the stuff that we don'thave the capacity.
And when I say capacity, it's morelike patients.
that that When a high functioningindividual, I'm going to sort of
tangent.
And for those of you that are
squirrel lovers, you will love theway that I just jumped to
different topics.
So let me scroll off on this for
one second.
You know, a lot of loan officers
get a bad rap as a lazy loanofficer because they do an
(11:03):
incomplete 1003.
A lot of what I am out in the
world of training, trying toexplain to processors and even
peripheral relationships likeunderwriters, it's never that a
loan officer is lazy.
If you have a loan officer that is
sending you 1003 that doesn't havea lot or all of the information on
you, you're getting so annoyed,let me explain something to you.
When you're a high functioningindividual, you know that there
(11:24):
are certain critical data pointsthat you need to know if a file is
approvable or not.
All the other stuff is the minutia
All the not.
other stuff is the minutiae.
That's the pain drying stuff.
Listen, you know, Mr. Jones, I
know that you started at your jobeight years ago.
I'm probably just going to put onthe 1003-11, you know, what is it
years ago?2016.
Right.
Mr. Jones most likely isn't going
(11:45):
to be the type of person thatremembers the exact day he started
anyway, right?Do I need to know that exact date
to know if the loan is approvable?No. Now, for the completion of the
1003 and to have an accurate 1003,we need to know that, but I'm not
going to stop doing what I'm doingto wait and go find out and order
the work number or call the HR andget the exact day.
(12:10):
You know, there's a lot of stuffthat like we don't necessarily
need to know in order to get aU.S. findings.
And so what happens is if our jobin sales is to go get the loan app
and go get the deal really thetechnical components that make a
loan work and say, hey, I've gotto offload this somewhere else to
someone who can do that so that Ican get onto the next activity
that's producing revenue.
And that's really what you find.
Now, are there bad loan officerswho take bad apps?
100%.
(12:30):
100%.
But there's a difference in thedata that's in it.
And you should be able to tell thedifference.
Like if your loan officer is notputting certain things, like their
start date on their job is notreally one of them.
But like, if you know that theystarted six months ago and that's
the only job you have, yeah, no,that's not gonna fly.
I at least need to know, where didyou work the last two years?
(12:51):
I gotta know that either way.
I gotta know if you have a job gap
because how that job gap playsinto it, right, is really going to
determine either need to know, ofloan or when we can move forward
on a loan.
That's more more of a big gap.
But me not having the exact startdates in or me not having the
account number or down to thecents on the bank statement, like
(13:16):
that's more of a like, okay, we'rebeyond this hurdle.
This is going to work.
It's going to fly.
We're going to get through AUS onthis, but I don't have all the
details.
So if you're that type of loan
officer, or you're a processorworking with that kind of loan
(13:38):
officer, then you know that yourjob function is going to be a
little bit different.
You're going to be the T-crosser
and right?And so if you're a loan officer
looking to bring on support andyou know that about yourself, this
is really important conversationto have with a processor, right?
Hey, one of the things that I amlooking to make sure that the
person I bring on is going tofulfill is doing an overview of
(13:59):
the 1003 for some of the accuracyin places where I'm not
necessarily going to be gettingthat information on the phone
call.
So when you pull a VOE or when
you're getting the VOE, one of thethings that I want to make sure I
communicate is that you're goingback into the system and updating
that either before or somehow inthe process.
But sometimes, right, becausethat's something I would do as a
loan officer.
And I know I might bring somebody
in and never explain that to them.
(14:21):
And then we all been worse when
all we all not updated.
I'm like, well, I didn't update
it.
And they're like, well, I never
had to do that at my other job.
Right.
And that's kind of kind of whatyou were saying before, right?
Somewhat of an unspokenexpectation, but that's more of me
having a muscle memory and knowingthis about myself and doing my own
stuff and then not reallyeffectively communicating how that
works or what my expectations arewhen I'm bringing somebody in
(14:45):
because now my volume calls foroperational support, which is
processing.
sure.
And that's huge.
It's important thing to note right
there is there seems totraditionally be sort of like a
butting of heads between sales andthe operations.
I know I saw it when I worked inthe mortgage company, there was
always this like, you know, sortof like butting of heads, like, oh
yeah, the sales people, this,that, and the other there, you
(15:08):
know?And it's like, the one thing that
I've learned as now being a leaderof a company and like, you know,
having employees and stuff likethat is like, we all think so
differently.
Yes.
Understanding that is likepivotal, right?
And understanding that like, okay,for me, if you come and like, you
micromanage me, you tell meexactly what to do.
You tell me all these things.
I'm going to be like, dude, get
out of here, like, just tell mewhat to do, I'll do it, I'll
figure it out.
(15:30):
Like, you don't have to give me
exact steps, just tell me thething that you need done, and I'll
do it.
Now, some people need exact
instructions, what time does itneed to be backed by?
What does it look like?What is it?
You know, all of those things.
And so it's like, those are some
of the things that we have tounderstand that we all think
differently.
And the detail oriented person is
going to think very differently.
(15:51):
I used to think my ops person and
I were fairly similar.
And then as we've been working
with my executive coach, we'velearned, oh man, we are so, so, so
different in just the way wethink, right?
Just the way she mind maps versusthe way I do.
She pulls out a process, I pullout a process.
Mine's like super easy.
Hers is like super in-depth.
I was like, yeah, an SLP shouldtake 20 minutes.
She's like, an SLP does not take20 minutes.
It takes two hours.
(16:11):
And then I look at her SOP.
I'm like, oh, okay.
Well, that's because your SOP is
very different than my SOPs.
Okay.
That makes a lot of sense.
So I don't know if you're familiar
with these tools, but there's sometools like ScribeHow, Tango,
things like that, that actuallyallow you to sort of like record
your screen as you're scrollingthrough it.
makes a literally create an SOPfor you as you just go through
Those it.
are pretty cool Or tools.
like another tool like You Loom.
could're scrolling through And
it'll it.
actually literally create an SLP
for you as you just go through it.
(16:32):
Those are pretty cool tools or
like another tool like Loom.
You can just talk through it.
That's what I like to do is I justtalk through it and I'm like
someone else put the steps inplace.
I'll just talk through it.
You can figure it out.
You know, that's easy for me,right?
I'm good on video and it justmakes me more comfortable.
I'll just do it that way.
So there's some ways that you can
avoid having to sit down and writedown a super in-depth SOP.
Again, you can send it to an opsperson that'll do it and put it
(16:54):
all the extra details that maybethe detail-oriented person needs
to see.
So that's pretty cool.
I want to talk a little bit about,you've grown a brokerage and
you've grown your sort of coachingor training platform.
What are some of the strategiesthat you have been using in terms
of, I want to really talk aboutthe brokerage and how have you
been able to continue to grow, tokeep business coming in, all that
kind of stuff?Like what are some of the
strategies that you're using rightnow to business?
Yeah, this is really key.
(17:14):
And I'm a little bit more out of
the box type of person.
So while I do think and I'll talk
about this secondarily, while I dothink that your referral partner
relationships are key, I thinkthat right now also consumer
facing relationships are a bitmore important because according
to different data sources outthere, the percentage of
first-time home buyers and thepercentage of applications that
we're taking right now that arefirst-time home buyers are
probably not going to come to youwith an agent.
So who's getting to them first,right?
So being consumer facing, meaningyou're out there, you're pounding
the pavement, you're working withclients before they have a
realtor.
That is the way I've always built
(17:34):
my business.
And I am a really high percentage
of referral business, which meansthat my clients are talking about
and referring me to everybody theyknow.
So one really important thing isyou've got to find ways to ask for
the business, right?So whether it's when you close the
deal, while you're working in thedeal, whether it's your post-close
follow-up, you have to find a waythat fits your personality to ask
for business so that people knowwhen to think of you.
And this is one thing that'scritically important that I
learned when I was a part of BNI,which is your elevator pitch,
(17:56):
right?Right.
If people don't know when to thinkof you, they're not going to think
of you, right?Or they're just gonna be absent
about this.
So I'll just do this with you
really quick.
I had done a coaching call.
And I said to everybody like, Oh,hey, how many of you have looked
up a Christmas cookie recipe inthe last three months?
And everybody kind of looked at meand they were like, Oh, I didn't
or I Yeah, no, I didn't.
And I was like, okay, well, how
(18:18):
many of you have asked a specificperson for some sort of recipe
around Thanksgiving or Christmas?And if I said to you, if I want a
baking recipe, could you refer mea recipe or something?
And a lot of people raise theirhand.
And the point is, is like, whowould you ask for this specific
kind of baking recipe, you inknow, your head?
why Well, do kind of baking recipeyou know in your head?
(18:40):
Well, why do you know who youwould ask in your head?
It's either because they make thebest cookie around, right?
And so that's always going to bethe person you think of.
Or because you've asked thatperson and they responded right
away.
But the whole point is, is like,
if you don't know when to think ofsomebody, you Right.
developing that on the real estateside, there are some really out of
(19:00):
the box things that I think we canbe doing right now.
So first of all, we are handlingobjections that we've never had to
handle.
I don't care if you've been in the
business 20 years like me, 30years or five years.
How many people have had to findan objection for I really don't
want to get my 3% rate?Nobody, we've never had 3% rates
before, right?So sometimes your longevity in the
industry isn't going to matterbecause we've never had these
(19:22):
objections before.
So let me tell you some things
that have worked really well forme.
I'm really busy right now.
I know that is uncommon.
Listen, I came off of 2023 asexhausted as everybody else.
I said, listen, I'm not in thecapacity to make a goal for the
whole 2024.
So I broke it down into quarters.
I said, for 2021, I'm going toleave three to five realtor
reviews a week, right?On Google?
(19:43):
never had tell you On Google?Google their name and whatever
platforms came up first is where Ileft the review.
Because if I'm a client, eitherresearching their name or
researching the area, that's wherethe client's going to get led to
first.
Right, right, right.
Whatever has the most, the mainauthority, right, is ultimately
what you're doing.
Okay, cool.
But I was very intentional aboutthe reviews that I left.
So I had three key things that Iwanted to make on these reviews.
(20:04):
Number one, it was to identifymyself as a lender.
That was really important.
Otherwise, I'm just Jackie Dunlap
and I'm just some Google userleaving a review.
Second was to do some sort ofpertinent key word, right?
So one that I left specificallywas a relocation transaction.
So I specifically use the wordrelocation and explain why this
realtor was great working withthis client that was doing
relocation to Albuquerque, NewMexico.
So that when somebody is Googlingthose specific terms, this
(20:27):
organically is going to come uphigh on the SEO algorithm and
bring up my review, right?So now I've got relocation that
I'm the lender.
And then it's also important to me
that I explain what was good aboutthis transaction, right?
So for this particular realtor,they were really great at doing
video tours for the client becausethey weren't here.
Not all realtors do relocation andthen they're like inconvenienced
by doing these video tours.
And some, that's what they
(20:48):
specialize in.
You might be a client looking at
that and going, oh my gosh, Inever even thought to ask if this
person is willing to do videotours for me, right?
I just wanted to make sure it wasusing key searchable terms that
people would be searching for inmortgages, right?
Some of these realtors had noreviews or I was the first lender
to review them.
And sometimes some platforms will
(21:09):
say, were you a buyer?I'll feel a little bit and say,
yes, I was the buyer.
And I'll say, hey, I represented
the buyer as their lender, right?Because they will have a review
process, right?So I'll put them on there.
But some of these agents have beenin the business seven, eight, nine
(21:31):
years, they had no reviews, theyhad not even a client review.
So now I'm increasing my relevancein any sort of search algorithm.
but I'm also bumping up theirs.
Since I started doing this, one of
the agents has actually sent methree referrals.
to stop you there because I'veheard a lot of cool strategies.
Like that's the first time I'veheard something like this.
And this is a big brain move.
I mean, you just big brained it
over here.
That's incredible because like
I've thought about like, okay,leaving reviews, things like that.
(21:54):
And I'm assuming you'reintentionally leaving reviews on
people you've done transactionswith, not just like random agents,
right?Okay.
So you're doing these, like Iwouldn't even think about the SEO
side of things, which isbrilliant.
And then also, yeah, talking aboutthe things that they were good at
is brilliant as well, because likerelocation, things like, man,
(22:17):
that's blowing my mind right nowthat you're doing that.
And that's cool because a lot oftimes, and I want to go back to
what you said before, talkingabout consumer direct strategies,
some way to get consumers.
I'm sorry, but so many loan
officers lie to themselves and lieto agents that say, you oh, know
what?The realtor just gets all the
leads, right?Like I don't get any leads.
(22:38):
Well, you don't get any leadsbecause you don't do anything to
try to attract consumers.
What do they teach you as soon as
you become a loan officer?Go work realtors.
What do they teach you as soon asyou become a realtor?
Go work his fear of influence.
Why do you think that realtors get
the consumers?Yes, I get it.
The home is a little more sexypart of the transaction.
Of course, they want to see thehome.
(23:00):
But I think loan officers havebrainwashed real estate agents
into believing that only realestate agents can generate leads.
And that's not the truth.
You've clearly been able to do
that.
You can work your past database,
get referrals from those people,refer them back.
That's one direct consumerstrategy.
Work your freaking database.
I mean, generate leads leads
whether it be from paid whether itbe from organic whether it be from
reels tiktoks youtube videos rightlike there's a million strategies
(23:21):
that you as a loan officer canimplement to generate your own
leads i'm sorry but most loanofficers are being lazy they don't
want to nurture people becausehere's the thing they're so used
to getting referrals that areready to buy in the next 90 days.
But that's not how the buyingjourney works.
Home buyers do not wake up in themorning and think, I'm going to
buy a home in the next 90 days.
they No, wake up.
They see a post from Susie whojust bought a home.
(23:42):
They're let me reach out to Susie.
like, what did you have to do to
Like, qualify?you Oh, need a 20%.
you Oh, didn't need 20% down.
You got a three and a half percent
down.
Man, I almost have that.
I should start looking.
Oh, let's check out Zillow.
Let's look at realtor.com.
And then all of a sudden, like
six, 12 months goes by.
And now all of a sudden, they're
with a real estate agent, they'renurturing them, and now they're
ready to buy.
And yet most loan officers have
this sort of crazy conception thatconsumers should only be ready to
(24:09):
buy in the next 90 days.
random Yeah.
And you know, a lot of timespeople, well, consumers, right,
they have the tool of theinternet.
the kind of this, you know, it'sthis place where you can validate
anything depending on how yousearch for it, right?
Coffee's great for you, coffee'sbad for you.
It depends on the language thatyou use in your search.
Let's talk about real estateagents for a second because I had
an agent last week call me.
I'd sent him two referrals within
30 days because he operates in aspecific part of town and he's
very good.
And our relationship is with
specific transactions.
He literally stops me mid
(24:29):
conversation.
He goes, what are you doing?
And I said, what are you made?And he said, well, you know, I'm
talking to these other lenders.
I'm like, Hey, you know, like, do
you have any referrals?And they're like, no, we don't
have any referrals.
Like you're saying, right.
And he goes, and here you are,you've sent me two referrals in 30
days.
Like, what are you doing?
Right?Well, one of the referrals was
literally a referral from arelocation, active military, who's
(24:51):
PCSing to the area, right?So it was a referral to me as
well.
But people know that I work in
certain areas and what I work on.
So I've done a great job, not only
in my sphere of personalrelationships, but in professional
relationships, people know what Ido.
They know when to think of Theother one is a referral from a
past sphere of personal but inprofessional people know what I
do.
me.
client.
relationships, relationships, They
know what to think of me.
One is a referral from a past
(25:14):
client.
So one of the things that I do is
when I'm working with people and Isay, listen, I'm just a really
keep it real.
I'm going to shoot you straight.
I'm going to be very directbecause people get nervous,
especially if they feel like theyhave something that's going to
prevent them from being able tomove forward.
So a lot of times people that comefor me say, Oh, I got your number
from so and so and they said,you're going to shoot me straight.
And that's what they expect fromme.
So again, that's my brand.
The point is, is that people know
when to think of me.
If people don't know when to think
(25:35):
of you, then you haven'testablished your brand.
For real estate agents, the otherkey thing, what we know as loan
officers is guidelines arechanging.
I say a minimum, they change threetimes a year, pretty standard.
Lots of times they change morethan that.
So if you're not signed up withFinney, Fannie, Freddie, or HUD to
get those emails, number one,pause this podcast and go and do
that right now.
And here's why.
(25:56):
When specific changes come out inguidelines, I'm reaching back out
to realtors or the next time Ihave a conversation with a realtor
and I will say, hey, this is a newguideline change for Fannie.
If you have talked with anybody inthe last 30, 60, maybe 90 days,
that this was a preclusion fromthem for moving forward, this is
someone that you're gonna wannarevisit.
So two things are happening here.
Number one, I'm now utilizing the
real estate agent to go backthrough their pipeline and say,
(26:17):
hey, did I have any of theseconversations?
I'm telling them specifically whatto go and look for.
And B, I'm now building my brandwith that real estate agent as a,
hey, this chick is a let's figureit out kind of gal, right?
I work outside the box.
I'm on top of I'm it.
up on the recent changes.
So for example, one of those
changes right now is Fannie Mae'srecent rule change on how they're
looking at timeshares.
Prior to this year, if you had a
(26:38):
default on a timeshare, we lookedat that as a housing event.
So if you defaulted on timeshare,we looked at that as a short zero
foreclosure.
You're two, four, seven years
That's rule change is now we'regoing to look at a timeshare
default, no different than a carloan.
So anybody that you've talked toin the last year who had a
timeshare and that was the reasonthey couldn't move forward, we
want to revisit them.
Sure, they probably signed the
lease.
Sure, they're probably renting,
but let's get in their ear now sothat way when that lease comes to
an end in six months, nine months,three months, they know that this
(27:02):
is now something we can move So Myjob really with any real estate
agent is I want to be in yourtoolbox.
I might not necessarily want to doall my business with you because I
learned the hard way that likewhen agents go on vacation, I all
of a sudden go on vacation.
vacation.
I just didn't know we were takingtime right?
off, time right?off, got a two week vacay, I Or
when we have two years of slowdownand all of a sudden you're four or
(27:22):
five people that were sending youall your business, no longer have
any business to send you.
And now all of a sudden you're
dead in the water because youdidn't continue to nurture
prospects.
You didn't continue to work other
real estate agents.
Like, yeah, that's huge.
And that's the big thing.
That's the whole point of this
podcast, honestly, is not thatlike I'm trying to sell anything
(27:43):
really.
It's like, you need to have a
strategy to actually have asustainable business.
And people talk about, well, I'm areferral only.
Great.
But you still have to have a
systematic way of getting morereferrals, whether that be from
consumers, whether that be frommore real estate agents.
And you have to continuallyreplace those people because a lot
of people then get that and happy.
(28:04):
And they're like, I got 10 people,
they're sending me good business.
I'm fine with this.
But like, what happens if theyretire?
What happens if they decide to bea listing agent?
And they stop doing buyer side.
Man, all of a sudden you're
screwed and you don't have allthese transactions.
Well, and just to touch again onyour strategies as well, I want to
go back to that is a strategy thatI heard from a couple of loan
(28:31):
officers, maybe two, three monthsback was taxes, even something
like, Hey, you know what, if youhad someone that was a little
short on their income, but youknow that they were going to have
the new taxes, or, you know, maybethere was that two year period,
you can reach out to those peopleand have that sort of thing.
Or even when rates went down forlike a, whatever, two week period
of time, right?You could have said, Hey man,
rates went down.
It's down.
You know, maybe some of thesepeople are going to qualify, it
(28:53):
can give up to x amount ofdollars, depending on their credit
scores and figure that there'slike some extra touches that you
can reach out to your partners andjust get free business pretty
much.
Now about those touches, because
there's another strategy here.
And the validity, right with the
new ruling or finding with NARthat agents are going to go to the
list.
That's a real valid, you know,
change in go to the list.
(29:14):
talk about a touch.
Varying sources out in themortgage industry say that loan
originator renewals was down 60%across the nation.
The reality that one of your localrealtors is going to reach out to
a lender and they're no longer inthe business is very high.
So a touch that you can make inyour sphere with people you have
or have not done business with,and I'm talking realtors, title
(29:36):
companies, maybe even inspectorsto say, So I renewed for 2024.
Let me know what you're up to,right?
Like, hey, I want to let you know,different places are saying that
loan officer renewal was down 60%.
I've chosen to renew.
I'd love to touch base.
Let me know if you've renewed so I
can make sure that I know you'restill here.
At some point, the reality is thatyou're going to reach out to a
lender and they may have exitedthe business.
I just want you to know, reach outto me.
I'm here, blah, blah, blah, right?That's just a touch.
Again, you're telling them when tothink of you.
(29:58):
This is also an important email tosend out to the title agents.
Whether they were yours or not,you go back to every CD, every
title company that you closed in2023, 2022.
You send every title agent anemail.
You send a CRM blast saying, hey,we've renewed for 2024.
We're still in the game.
Because they're sources of
information for their real estateagent partners, too.
They could call and be like, oh,my gosh, did you know Sharon left
the mortgage business?And you know, Debbie's going to be
like, oh yeah, I know.
I didn't know, but you know what?
(30:18):
I actually got an email from thisloan officer.
It was actually pretty cool.
You know, they let us know that
they renewed.
You should maybe give them a try,
but it's a specific andintentional touch that lets people
know when to think of your name.
And that's the key.
A lot of times loan officers areputting stuff out in the world and
it's fluff and it's this and that,but there's not really a call to
action.
Right.
It's sort of a different way to doa call to action.
If you don't know when to think ofme, you're not going to think of
(30:39):
the truth is whether loan officersthink this or not, you're
salespeople first.
I mean, let's be honest.
I mean, a lot of people like tohide behind this idea that they're
an advisor and educator and thingslike be salesperson, right?
You don't get paid the type ofmoney you get paid to advise or to
educate.
Yes, that is part of your job as
well, right?You do need to do those things.
You need to be an educator and anadvisor, but you're a salesperson
(30:59):
first.
And being a salesperson doesn't
mean that you're doing thingsunethically.
It just means you got to ask forthe freaking business.
You got to like be a leader.
And another thing that I talk
about all the time, people areprobably sick of hearing this, but
I talk about this because how manytransactions does an average
consumer do?And how many does a loan officer
(31:20):
do?And yet, here we are allowing the
consumer to tell us when they'reready to buy.
And the truth is, yes, you can'tforce anybody to do anything, but
you can explain to them why itmakes sense to buy now if they
have the good credit, good income,good down payment.
We're sitting here lettingconsumers tell us when they're
ready to buy.
And unfortunately to me, I think
that's cowardly.
(31:40):
And I think it just means that
you're not really believing inwhat you do, right?
If you truly believe in thisproduct and the thing that you do,
here's the truth.
They can go to Rocket.
Rocket doesn't care.
They're going to put two points on
the back.
They're going to charge them a
thousand dollar application, bewhatever it is that they do over
but there, they don't They'recare.
going to get that person inprocess and they're going to do it
(32:01):
because they understand thatconsumers don't want to right?
move, They're just going to chargethem $1,000 application whatever
fee, it is that they do over butthere, they don't They're care.
going to get that person inprocess and they're going to do it
because they understand thatconsumers don't want to move,
right?They're just going to stay at rest
if you let them stay at rest.
Sometimes you have to give them a
kick in the butt to get moving.
(32:23):
It just is the truth.
I'm laughing because it's sorelatable, but I've said for many
years, you know, there's threethings that people always want
when they're doing a loan.
It's kind of like the saying in
construction, you can have quickkey or quality, but you can't have
all three, right?You typically can get two of the
three, but you're never gettingall three.
Well, the same is true in lending,right?
People want the lowest rate, thelowest payment and to put the
least amount of money quick key oris true not going to get all
(32:44):
three, right?And you understand how that works,
right?Higher rate, lower costs, higher
rates, higher payment, but thenyou get to keep more of your
money, right?So I used to tell people like,
listen, unless you're planning ongoing on Etsy and getting a
t-shirt with your industry printedon it, it's the least important of
the three.
That is the biggest tool we have
to manipulate the numbers toreally make sure that what's
important.
not going to get all So I And
right now we're in a high rateenvironment, but our expectation
(33:06):
is gonna go low.
So if it makes sense to move
forward now and it works, the bestthing is to move forward now
before you wait like everybodyelse who's saying, right.
And if their consumers are on theinternet, they're hearing this.
They know that people are going towait and wait until rates drop.
So what's the advantage of movingforward now?
that don't know if you have, doyou have kids at have four.
I have seven.
So good.
We both.
all So you got more Oh, than
right.
I So do you have kids do.
(33:27):
at Okay.
all?
I have I have So four.
Okay, We seven.
all right.
good.
both.
Oh, So you got more than I do.
Okay.
So here's the deal, right?
If you've ever been around atoddler, right?
Think about this, you know,toddlers running around just
completely biffs it.
And it's a big bit.
If we react and go, Oh, my God,Johnny, are you okay?
All of a sudden, that kid justbusts out crying where there was a
brief moment where you weren'tsure if they were going to.
(33:47):
all So you got more Oh, thanright.
I So do you have kids do.
at Okay.
all?I have I have So four.
Okay, We seven.
all right.
good.
both.
Oh, So you got more than I do.
God, happening is they're feeding
off of our energy and ourreaction.
Johnny's running through, makes abig biff and we just take a minute
and see how Johnny gets up andreact.
A lot of times they look at us andthen you're like, hey, Johnny,
you're all right.
And they're like, yeah, I'm all
right, I'm okay.
Consumers are the same way.
If you're afraid of the rightenvironment, if you're afraid of
like, oh, I don't know if they'regoing to move forward, that
customer is no different than atoddler and it's going to feed off
of our You've got to really knowwhat you think, believe about this
market.
(34:07):
And that has to come through in
your communication to your realestate agents, to your clients.
If you're like, oh, I know it's ahigh rate, but you no, numbers are
black and white.
Okay.
You've got to adopt a very neutralstance about our environment and
know what you think.
You know what I believe right now?
And people say, well, what do youthink Jackie?
And I'm like, well, would itchange your mind if I told you
that I sold my house with a 3.25rate and bought with a 5.75?
(34:30):
They're like, why would you dothat?
Well, because I had 140 grand ofequity locked up and I didn't
really want to take a HELOCbecause that didn't make a whole
lot of sense because I can't getall the money.
So I sold my house, cleared ahundred grand, bought a new house
and took that money and went andbought an apartment complex.
That's what I did with it.
You think I care about 5.75 right
now?Not even a second thought about it
unless I'm telling the story.
Right, right.
I I care about the 5.75.
(34:51):
And that's really the reality of
like, how are we overcoming theseobjections we've never had before?
So I know what I think about inthis market.
And I tell people, listen, numbersare black and white.
We just have to figure out if thismakes sense for you or A hundred
percent.
That's it.
A hundred percent.
It only matters if it makes sense.
Like if you can afford the monthlypayments, if you're not planning
on moving in a year, right?Like there's some things you got
(35:12):
to think about.
Cause obviously like, I think
there is unethical ways of pushingpeople.
And I think unfortunately a lot ofthose unethical things don't
necessarily happen on the purchaseside, but on the cash out refi
side, you know, people pushingpeople into a cash out refi when
really they might be a betteroption, right?
There's some other things there totake into account as well.
But generally, like sales isleadership.
And you know, again, sales is atransference of energy.
You just talked about that, right?People can feel and I talk about
this concept all the time,commission breath, right?
So many people have so muchcommission breath, and they're so
desperate for the business.
(35:32):
Yes is so evident to people.
And you may not know that you havethat.
But if you're desperate forbusiness, if you're struggling,
you need to have an indifferenceto getting the sale or not, right?
It doesn't matter if you get thesale or not, but you're going to
just put the facts on the line.
And there is also a concept of
when you sort of release thatenergy of needing the sale, it's
like they are pulled to you sostrongly.
And I just did this the other day.
It was like someone like kind of
ghosted me on a follow-up and Isaid, like hey, you don't have to
(35:54):
ghost me.
Like if you're not ready to move
forward, totally fine.
Just don't ghost me.
I don't bite, I promise.
Almost instantly responded and
then ended up signing thecontract.
It was like, it was funny becauseI didn't care.
I was like, just don't make mefreaking chase you, man.
Like if you're not interested,like I just want you to tell me,
right?I'd rather you tell me.
And I think that is something thatloan officers, sometimes they're
like, Oh, I'm going to lose asale.
(36:14):
You're more likely to lose a salebecause you're desperate to get
the sale than you are.
If you're just like, Hey, you can
buy or not.
Here's the facts.
Here's the truth.
And another thing is language and
tonality using words like, yeah,you know, the rate's just 7%
versus, man, I know the rate's 7%.
(36:34):
Right.
Like that's the same In onestatement.
we use just sense, the word whichis just, it know the like, rate's
Oh, Like that's 7%.
Right.
the same statement.
In one we use sense, the word
just, just, which is it's not thatbad.
like, oh, And then the other we'relike, one, oh it's it's so right?
man, 7%, bad, Like who's gonnamove forward?
The person that's 7% is not thatbad, like, oh, you And I think And
(36:55):
the and that's the right?Yeah, key, Like you have to know,
if you think seven's high, that'sgonna come out your communication.
You only think seven's highbecause you only operated at a 3%.
The first loan that I everoriginated was 8.99%.
The first home that I bought backin 2008, we bought down the rate
to seven and an eighth.
We were the cool kids on the
block.
Like people could not believe we
got a rate that low, right?So sometimes your experience
(37:16):
matters, but in the sense thatseven's not it's high, that just,
rate that right?low, So sometimes your experience
matters, but in the sense thatseven's not high, it's just,
that's the cycle, right?It's like trying to save and it's
cold in winter.
It's like, to save and it's cold
in winter.
It's like, well, it's a cycle.
a cycle.
It's supposed to be cold in
winter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Most likely.
I mean, again, we can't promisethat rates are going to come down,
but I had the guy from Monitorbased on one of these podcasts.
(37:38):
He talked about the concept of theaverage home buyer buys about
every 11 years and they typicallyrefinance twice in that time.
So that's like 4 transactions in11 years.
But just to think about thisperspective, in 11 years, that's 4
times.
4 times they're doing loans.
And you're over here worried aboutthis 30-year 7%.
No one keeps a 30-year loan.
Very few people keep a 30-year
loan.
So it's not really that big of a
deal if they can afford thepayments.
Again, don't push something.
(37:58):
Someone's barely affording.
They're at 70% or Yeah, I don'tknow what the DTIs are.
And I'm not a loan officer.
But you know what I mean?
If like you're pushing someoneinto something they probably
shouldn't be in that they can'treally afford, then okay, like,
that's probably not something youshould do.
But on the other side of things,like, if they're wanting to do
this, like you shouldn't like talkthem out of doing something
because I don't If they're wantingto do like you shouldn't this,
like talk them know, out of doingsomething I because I don't know.
(38:20):
mean, I unless mean, unless it'sit's in their in their best best
interest.
interest.
it's in their in their best bestinterest.
interest.
Dude, I had this story several
years ago where it was a friend ofours and I had done the purchase
when they bought the home.
And it was about maybe a year and
a half later and he calls me abouta refi, right?
And I'm still sort of new in thebrokerage, owning the brokerage
space.
I was like, man, we're on the
numbers.
I called him and I was kind of in
(38:40):
a place where like I needed theloan, but it was a friend.
So I was like, hey, man, like wecould do the refi, but like we're
only going to save you like $74 amonth.
And I'm not really sure if anyinterrupts me.
And he goes, wait a minute.
And it was about January.
It was like the end of December.
And he said, wait a minute.
So you're telling me I can skiptwo payments and then my payment's
going to go down $75 a month.
And I was like, yeah, but and he's
(39:01):
like, let's do it.
And in that moment, I realized
that the value of money and theperception of value of money is
each individual's perception.
$75 $75 and missing two payments
was a huge value for him.
The value that I placed on that
was my own.
And I learned in that moment that
it was never my job to determinethe value of any degree of savings
or lack thereof.
It was my job to listen to the
client for them to tell me this istheir money and I am the
facilitator on how it is spent inthis capacity.
(39:21):
That is it.
And that's really when I began to
remove a lot of my emotion aboutwhether or not something was good
or bad because loans are not goodor bad it's whether or not the
client understands what they'resaying yes to or no to loans are
just the tool so if you don't havethat unattachment to what you're
doing I would strongly encourageyou to get to that place that
(39:41):
loans are neither good or badrates are neither good or bad they
Rates are neither good or bad.
They're just or to or no to tools,
Right now, let's see, we'refilming March 1st.
If I said to you, as someone inthe industry, 5% rate, a
consumer's gonna be like, oh,that's great.
And you and I are you I got a fewquestions.
What does it cost you to get thatrate?
Because I'm telling you right nowto get a 5% rate, you're talking
20 to 30 grand.
Now that 5% doesn't seem like such
a good rate to us professionalsbecause we know that a to get
that.
Now that doesn't make 5% bad.
(40:03):
What makes this situation bad isthat the client doesn't understand
what it takes to get a 5% rate.
And all of a sudden they're like,
why are my closing costs $50,000?Well, because you wanted 5% and it
costs $27,000 for the rate.
Well, I didn't know that.
5% is not bad.
The loan's not bad.
It's the fact that the clientdidn't know that.
Right.
100%.
That is 100%.
It's all about the perception from
the consumer's perspective, forsure.
So to sort of close things outThat is all of out is all from the
(40:29):
consumer's for perspective, sure.
So to sort of close things out I
always like to leave with onetactic, here, one strategy that
people can implement.
So I know we've talked about a
bunch of stuff, but if you haveany other ideas, one thing that a
loan officer, maybe they'restarting new in the industry,
maybe if you were to get startedagain, what's one thing, one
strategy that you would tell aloan officer to go out and get I
would say you need to attend asmany community type networking
functions as possible.
And as you get busy, this is the
key part.
As you get busy, you don't stop
going to them.
But the more that people know your
name, know when to think of you,the more that you show up, the
more your business will come.
(40:49):
You need to practice your elevator
pitch.
You need to practice making sure
people know who you are and whento think of you.
more The downfall is that as westart to get busy, we think, oh, I
don't have time to go to thosethings.
Absolutely not.
You carve that time out and you
continue to go or your businesswill fall true.
You to make yourself known.
What's true, it's like the same
concept of like, even going liketo the gym or like having a
morning routine.
It's like, as we get busy, we're
(41:11):
like, Oh, we're just going togrind.
And next thing we know is thethings that were actually keeping
us able to do the hard work wasgoing to the gym and eating well
and things like that.
And we start to slip off those
things.
We can't go.
So it's the same concept.
It's like, cool.
Like now we're getting busy.
It's the reason why most loan
officers kind of go in thesecycles, ups and downs and ups and
downs is because they prospect,prospect, prospect, prospect, get
(41:31):
the loans.
Then they process the loans.
And the next thing you know, crap,I don't have any loans.
Let me go out and process.
That's the 30 day rule.
It comes from fanaticalprospecting, right?
Like there's a 30 day rule thatactions that you take in the next
30 days have a 90 to 180 day,especially in the mortgage
(41:52):
industry, 90 to 180 day lag time,right?
So you're going to see that iflike, you're slow right it's now,
probably because 90 to 180 dayslag right?
time, So you're going to see thatif like, you're slow right now,
it's probably because 90 to 180days ago, you took a break.
Hey, we had Christmas andThanksgiving.
If you're slow right now,honestly, it's probably because
you took a couple months offduring that time.
(42:14):
I'm hearing a lot of people arereally busy right now.
And I believe it's the people thatgrinded during October, November
and December of last year.
And that's why they're reaping the
benefits right now in this market.
So thank you so much for your time
today, Jackie.
If someone wanted to learn more
about your brokerage or yourtraining program or any of that
stuff, what's the best way toconnect with you, learn more about
those programs?Yeah, so I'm easily located on
(42:36):
Google.
I have a YouTube channel.
You can find me, my information'sout there everywhere.
You can find me really easy onFacebook.
Direct messaging me on Facebook isprobably one of the easiest ways
to get ahold of me withoutshouting out my phone number on
your podcast.
All good.
All good.
That's the best way to find me.
Just Google my name and some sortof mortgage, either processing or
(42:58):
lending, and I'll come right up tothe top.
That's a lot today.
Some of my big takeaways from
today was one, we started withprocess.
Learning how to create processesin your business is pivotal to
growth.
And again, you talked about the
concept of like, just tounderstand that if you want to
grow at scale, you have to dothings a certain way.
(43:18):
But you also don't have to dothat.
I think that is a bigmisconception in this industry.
And really in any high performancespace is like we want these things
like the $100 million producer,whatever I want to do 50 million.
It's like, do you like you knowwhat that means for your life?
Do you know what the sacrificesyou have to do?
Do you know what you have to giveup to do that?
Like, and sometimes, and I didthis, like I built my business to
hit, I'm going to hit a hundredgrand a month, right?
Like that's, I'm going to be amillion dollar company.
(43:40):
And it was like, but why?Like, what was the purpose of it?
And I got burnt out, you know?So there was a lot of things that
happened.
So I don't recommend it again.
And I still want to keep growing,but in the right way with
processes, with systems, with ateam and all that kind of cool
stuff.
So that's a big aha for me.
It was just not a ha or just likea big takeaway for me.
(44:03):
A second is we almost did like awhole second podcast where we
talked about some crazystrategies, Google using those
reviews, some cool strategies andget more referrals.
Man, this was a packed, packedepisode.
Any last parting words, Jack,before we head out?
Listen, I'm going to shoot youstraight all the time, always.
I've been saying 2024 is acharacter year, not a character
building year.
This is a character revealing
year.
This year is going to reveal
whether or not you have done thethings.
(44:24):
And the reality is, is you'reeither doing the things that you
say you're doing or that you'regoing to do, or you're not.
And this is the year that's goingto reveal that.
So if I could, you know, encourageanybody to just truly be a hundred
percent committed to executing thethings you say you're going to do
at the elite level that you knowthat you are capable of and your
character will shine in the end.
This is one of those years, this
year's making and breaking peopleleft and right.
So, you know, let that charactershow by committing 100% to an
elite level of completion to thethings that you commit to, which
(44:47):
also means you need to beintentional about what you're
committing to.
And it might be saying no to some
Well, I mean, I gave up alcohol acouple months ago and that's one
of the things that I know thatdoesn't make me the person I want
to be.
And so for now, it's part of my
identity just because again, Imean, it didn't serve me, you
know, it gives you hangovers, allthat kind of stuff.
It makes you sleep like crap for alittle bit.
So it's one of those things thatyou may have to give up alcohol.
You may have to give up, you know,Netflix or something, but it comes
(45:08):
down to, yeah, executing at a highlevel.
What is the thing that you want toaccomplish?
So thank you so much for your timetoday.
And for anybody who's listeningand is looking for some help on
marketing and flipping the statusquo on real estate agents, go to
flip the status quo.com.
Thank you so much for listening
and have a great day.
Thank you for tuning into the
loans on demand podcast on loanson demand podcast.com.
podcast, the show where we flipthe real estate status quo on its
head and put loan officers intothe driver's seat.
We give you all the tools,strategies, resources, and mindset
needed to modernize your mortgagebusiness and thrive.
My name is Luke Shankula, aka LongForm Luke, and this is the Loans
On Demand podcast.
going on?
Welcome to the Loans On Demandpodcast, the show where we help
(00:25):
loan officers flip the status quoon real estate agents.
And I'm excited because today wehave Jackie Dunlap.
She is the president and founderof NextGen Home Loans and also the
Mortgage Calculator TrainingProgram.
I called her the process queenwhen she first got on here.
So she knows everything aboutoperations process, but I'm
excited because I really thinkwe're going to learn a lot on how
(00:46):
to create a process orientedbusiness as a loan originator, but
also we're going to have some funhere.
So welcome to the show.
Thank for having me.
I'm super excited.
Let's go.
All right.
Well, give us a little background.
Obviously I gave you a little bitof a background there, but let's
hear the real story.
Why are you in this industry?
Why are you still in thisindustry, to be honest?
What got you in the industry aswell?
Yeah, so I had just lost my job asa payroll salesperson.
I was looking for work, I reallywanted to get into banking.
(01:08):
In my mind, that would have been ateller.
I was a single mom at the time andtellers, I think made like 725 an
hour.
not going to work.
And my mom came home one day andshe was like, hey, I saw this job
listing on Monster.
I think she just said a mortgage
person.
I think you'd be great at it.
And I was like, well, I'll fill itout.
(01:29):
But, you know, they're not goingto hire somebody like me.
And I got my interview and washired and spent four weeks in
training, hit the floor, was thefirst one in my training class to
close a loan.
Quickly was a top producer within
the next month and the next month,top 5% of the company.
And that led us into 2006.
And then I went through a series
of layoffs at different companiesduring the housing bubble crash.
(01:50):
I a three and a half year stintworking in a family business with
my then husband's HVAC familybusiness.
And then got back into theindustry in 2012.
Was recruited to go work for WellsFargo in 2012.
They were launching a newweb-based processing platform.
They were currently still doingmortgages in 2012 on their
DOS-based system.
So that was real fun.
Yeah.
You know, tab, tab, right, tab,
tab, left.
(02:10):
Right, right.
That's crazy.
That system crashed.
And so they quickly startedalleviating the workforce.
I exit stage right, go into thebroker channel.
I go and work in a correspondent.
So now I'm kind of getting exposed
to different types of lending thatI wasn't aware even existed.
(02:31):
So I did a little bit ofcorrespondent, got some training
as that company transitioned froma franchise branch to a different
franchise branch.
I learned a lot of what I know now
through that training and thenentered into the broker world.
So I'd been in mortgage about fiveyears before I had even understood
what brokering meant.
before I had even understood what
(02:52):
I brokering spent meant.
my first five years in lending, I
spent my first five years inlending, only doing doing
purchases, refis, spared thedaylights out living, of me.
So really my first five years inthe industry was a lot about
learning.
My career background is in
training.
I was a corporate trainer for two
different companies.
So I think naturally, I just, I
wanted to learn and understandbecause I had filled the role of
teaching people before that.
And so it felt really
(03:12):
uncomfortable for me to not knowhow things worked.
After that, getting into thebroker channel and really learning
that I became an independent thirdparty processor for several years.
And I rocked that world.
You know, my loan officers loved
working with me.
I was kind of given heads up on
the largest real estate company inColorado was going to be starting
a mortgage side with an MSA and Ishould get it on the ground level,
(03:35):
did that process them for a whileand then went out on my own.
Well, I had my MLL license inorder to third party originate,
but I started kind of originatingand moving out on my own.
And then in late 2016, I opened myown brokerage.
So we're running on our eighthyear in the brokerage this year.
So a little bit of movement there,but that's awesome.
And that's how you learn.
I mean, at the end of the day, I
talk about this all the time.
(03:57):
My current executive coach, he
brings this up a lot.
And he talks about this concept of
you don't learn your lessons fromsuccess.
You learn your best lessons fromfailures, right?
And so, you know, obviously, therewas a lot of turmoil there and not
necessarily that you wanted to bein.
But, you know, the truth is, Imean, we're in a similar market
now where there's just turmoil,there's things happening, and
there's turnover in terms of, youknow, especially if you're in the
operations type roles, even on asales side, right?
(04:17):
I mean, companies are cutting loanofficers, even if they are
producing loan officers, right?Just depending on where you're at
and things like that, right?So times we're in.
Let's talk a little bit aboutprocess.
I know this might not be the mostsexy thing for most people.
But one of the things that I'velearned, and I'm someone that's
not a process oriented person.
And I learned pretty quickly that
in order to grow a business beyondjust a single grind, sort of
(04:37):
mentality is you have to createstructure and process.
And I don't think it always comesnatural to entrepreneur type of
people, because generallyentrepreneurs that people are big
thinkers, and not so much littledetail oriented people.
So like, when you're trainingpeople on process and SOPs, and
things like that systems, likewhat's kind of the mindset that
you approach that with?Or how do you help them understand
the importance of process?Yeah, a little bit of a unicorn,
(04:57):
right?I am an originator.
I'm an entrepreneur at heart, butI also have this knack for the
process side of it.
So one of the unique things that I
bring to the table is I intimatelyunderstand the struggles that the
people who are the big thinkers,big pictures, the creatives,
right?Great at sales.
I intimately understand thestruggle that we have moving into
this procedure place right havinga system having an sop or an slp
(05:21):
or you know slas any of that youknow acronym language which
basically just means having adocumented an of the things that's
really useful in places like thatis you know we're so good at the
crap that we just know what to doand so the problem is is then when
we start to scale and grow and wehave to train somebody and we get
(05:41):
in this, they were like, oh, it'sjust easier if I do it myself.
Right.
And really when you're operating
at a high function like that,driving into the minutia of doing
a standard operating procedure,like that's so brain just halting
for people who are just go, go,go, go, go.
And that's really more the issue.
It isn't that you can't put it
(06:02):
together.
It's like, I've got to slow my
brain down beyond a place that Ifeel comfortable to write out item
by item by item, because right,we've usually created such a
muscle memory that so much of ithappens just automatically for us.
We were talking before and I said,you know, I liken it to really
successful crafty trades personwho knows their craft, you know,
HVAC, plumbing, electricians.
us. of times they end up leaving a
company and starting their ownbusiness, you know, stereotypical,
(06:23):
right?Like they're the ones that show up
in the white vans and they'regreat at their trade.
But then as loan officers, likewhen we see them come in, it's
like their finances are a mess.
Their tax returns are a mess.
Because they're great at theircraft of doing, you know, HVAC
plumbing, electrical, you know,whether it's concrete, painter, a
tiler, but they don't know the insand outs of running a business.
(06:44):
And I find a lot of loan officersalso fall into that where people
who are big thinkers start abrokerage for the company.
And then it's like, oh, I know howto get all the business in.
And then all of a sudden, we gotall the business and we're like,
shoot, we didn't build thefoundation or the structure to
support all this business.
Now what?
Right?we love to break the business is
what we like to do.
(07:05):
That's basically what I did.
I mean, I thought that I couldjust will my way to the next
level.
And I understood the importance of
it.
But you're right.
I mean, it's not that we aren'tcapable of doing process and
procedure.
It's just that it feels like
watching paint dry.
Like it really feels like, why am
I doing this?I can do it faster.
But the truth is, you're nevergoing to get beyond a certain
point if you don't learn how tocreate systems.
(07:25):
And obviously delegate is anotherthing.
But if you delegate withoutprocesses, you're most likely
going to be disappointed.
You're probably going to burn
through a bunch of people andyou're going to probably blame
them when the truth is it'sprobably unfortunately you.
Most of the time when people failit's a systems process management
leadership problem not a peopleproblem obviously there's
exceptions to that rule but ithink overall most humans want to
succeed they don't want tofreaking come in and screw you
right right but if you don't haveproper expectations and processes
(07:47):
and procedures and i'veexperienced this myself right you
know i have these like loftyexpectations ofy expectations of
people, but like, I didn'tcommunicate them.
I didn't have the processes.
I didn't have, you know, it's
like, just figure it out becausethat's who I am.
I figured stuff out, but noteverybody's like that.
So how do you sort of train that?how do you sort of train that?
Well, so here's the other thing tokeep in mind too, you know, in our
business as loan originators, ourname is our brand.
(08:09):
Our name is reputation.
And so if you're great at selling
and you're great at getting theapp and you're great at having the
conversation in order to keep yourpartners, your real estate
partners, your referral partners,or your clients referring you, you
get into trouble when you don'thave processes in place.
Right.
And then it's what happens is
you're juggling all these ballsand inevitably you're going to
have to let one go to go deal withsomething over here because it's
(08:30):
not in the workflow or it's partof that paint drying.
Right.
I remember being as a loan
officer, you know, it got to thepoint where like doing things like
ordering title and insurance wasone of those, like, it just got to
the point where it was like, soannoying to deal with.
Right.
And in that place, like you said,
you know, you're going to get sobusy where you're not going to be
able to handle it all.
But also there's a decision to be
made about how much volume do youreally want?
(08:50):
It's so easy in this industry thatwhen volume is there to just say
yes.
And before you know it, you're
running at a speed that you haveno business running at or any
desire to.
So in 2020, I was on stage at Fuse
and I said, hey, it's okay to be asmall boutique brokerage.
But you have to make that decisionand then know what your
limitations are, right?easy But And there were a number
of people that came up to meafterwards and said, I really
(09:14):
needed to hear that.
Because it's really easy to
compare yourself to those aroundyou and say, oh man, I'm supposed
to be closing 20 units a monthbecause so-and-so that I see and
look up to is closing 20.
So for me, somehow now that means
success.
Well, really what is success,
right?It's being able to perform on
time, provide the service at thelevel that you say you're going to
to your clients and your realestate partners.
(09:35):
So how do we do things like that?I have two kids that have special
needs under the dyslexia umbrella.
And one of the tools that has been
available to them that I was like,this is actually a really amazing
tool is talking into Well, dothings like talk into Google, some
of their project instead oftyping, because that works better
for them.
And so some of the things that we
can do for us transitioning into,right?
Like if you ask me to tell you orgive you a 10 step, how do you do
(09:59):
this?I'm going to put that thing off so
hard because the amount that Ihave to slow down my brain to
actually do that and think aboutstep by step by step, because I've
been doing this 20 years, mymuscle memory does stuff that, you
know, I just know how to go in anddo it.
One of the tools that's reallyhelpful for those of you that are
thinking about scaling or need toget a standard operating procedure
(10:20):
or just a simple workflow inplace, written and documented is
when you're telling somebody elseor talk to Google Sheets, like
you're telling somebody else whatyou would do, and it will record
all of that, then get a virtualassistant, send that stuff to a
virtual assistant and have themtype it out.
Then you can take that first editand read it and make the edits.
(10:42):
That's all the stuff that we don'thave the capacity.
And when I say capacity, it's morelike patients.
that that When a high functioningindividual, I'm going to sort of
tangent.
And for those of you that are
squirrel lovers, you will love theway that I just jumped to
different topics.
So let me scroll off on this for
one second.
You know, a lot of loan officers
get a bad rap as a lazy loanofficer because they do an
(11:03):
incomplete 1003.
A lot of what I am out in the
world of training, trying toexplain to processors and even
peripheral relationships likeunderwriters, it's never that a
loan officer is lazy.
If you have a loan officer that is
sending you 1003 that doesn't havea lot or all of the information on
you, you're getting so annoyed,let me explain something to you.
When you're a high functioningindividual, you know that there
(11:24):
are certain critical data pointsthat you need to know if a file is
approvable or not.
All the other stuff is the minutia
All the not.
other stuff is the minutiae.
That's the pain drying stuff.
Listen, you know, Mr. Jones, I
know that you started at your jobeight years ago.
I'm probably just going to put onthe 1003-11, you know, what is it
years ago?2016.
Right.
Mr. Jones most likely isn't going
(11:45):
to be the type of person thatremembers the exact day he started
anyway, right?Do I need to know that exact date
to know if the loan is approvable?No. Now, for the completion of the
1003 and to have an accurate 1003,we need to know that, but I'm not
going to stop doing what I'm doingto wait and go find out and order
the work number or call the HR andget the exact day.
(12:10):
You know, there's a lot of stuffthat like we don't necessarily
need to know in order to get aU.S. findings.
And so what happens is if our jobin sales is to go get the loan app
and go get the deal really thetechnical components that make a
loan work and say, hey, I've gotto offload this somewhere else to
someone who can do that so that Ican get onto the next activity
that's producing revenue.
And that's really what you find.
Now, are there bad loan officerswho take bad apps?
100%.
(12:30):
100%.
But there's a difference in thedata that's in it.
And you should be able to tell thedifference.
Like if your loan officer is notputting certain things, like their
start date on their job is notreally one of them.
But like, if you know that theystarted six months ago and that's
the only job you have, yeah, no,that's not gonna fly.
I at least need to know, where didyou work the last two years?
(12:51):
I gotta know that either way.
I gotta know if you have a job gap
because how that job gap playsinto it, right, is really going to
determine either need to know, ofloan or when we can move forward
on a loan.
That's more more of a big gap.
But me not having the exact startdates in or me not having the
account number or down to thecents on the bank statement, like
(13:16):
that's more of a like, okay, we'rebeyond this hurdle.
This is going to work.
It's going to fly.
We're going to get through AUS onthis, but I don't have all the
details.
So if you're that type of loan
officer, or you're a processorworking with that kind of loan
(13:38):
officer, then you know that yourjob function is going to be a
little bit different.
You're going to be the T-crosser
and right?And so if you're a loan officer
looking to bring on support andyou know that about yourself, this
is really important conversationto have with a processor, right?
Hey, one of the things that I amlooking to make sure that the
person I bring on is going tofulfill is doing an overview of
(13:59):
the 1003 for some of the accuracyin places where I'm not
necessarily going to be gettingthat information on the phone
call.
So when you pull a VOE or when
you're getting the VOE, one of thethings that I want to make sure I
communicate is that you're goingback into the system and updating
that either before or somehow inthe process.
But sometimes, right, becausethat's something I would do as a
loan officer.
And I know I might bring somebody
in and never explain that to them.
(14:21):
And then we all been worse when
all we all not updated.
I'm like, well, I didn't update
it.
And they're like, well, I never
had to do that at my other job.
Right.
And that's kind of kind of whatyou were saying before, right?
Somewhat of an unspokenexpectation, but that's more of me
having a muscle memory and knowingthis about myself and doing my own
stuff and then not reallyeffectively communicating how that
works or what my expectations arewhen I'm bringing somebody in
(14:45):
because now my volume calls foroperational support, which is
processing.
sure.
And that's huge.
It's important thing to note right
there is there seems totraditionally be sort of like a
butting of heads between sales andthe operations.
I know I saw it when I worked inthe mortgage company, there was
always this like, you know, sortof like butting of heads, like, oh
yeah, the sales people, this,that, and the other there, you
(15:08):
know?And it's like, the one thing that
I've learned as now being a leaderof a company and like, you know,
having employees and stuff likethat is like, we all think so
differently.
Yes.
Understanding that is likepivotal, right?
And understanding that like, okay,for me, if you come and like, you
micromanage me, you tell meexactly what to do.
You tell me all these things.
I'm going to be like, dude, get
out of here, like, just tell mewhat to do, I'll do it, I'll
figure it out.
(15:30):
Like, you don't have to give me
exact steps, just tell me thething that you need done, and I'll
do it.
Now, some people need exact
instructions, what time does itneed to be backed by?
What does it look like?What is it?
You know, all of those things.
And so it's like, those are some
of the things that we have tounderstand that we all think
differently.
And the detail oriented person is
going to think very differently.
(15:51):
I used to think my ops person and
I were fairly similar.
And then as we've been working
with my executive coach, we'velearned, oh man, we are so, so, so
different in just the way wethink, right?
Just the way she mind maps versusthe way I do.
She pulls out a process, I pullout a process.
Mine's like super easy.
Hers is like super in-depth.
I was like, yeah, an SLP shouldtake 20 minutes.
She's like, an SLP does not take20 minutes.
It takes two hours.
(16:11):
And then I look at her SOP.
I'm like, oh, okay.
Well, that's because your SOP is
very different than my SOPs.
Okay.
That makes a lot of sense.
So I don't know if you're familiar
with these tools, but there's sometools like ScribeHow, Tango,
things like that, that actuallyallow you to sort of like record
your screen as you're scrollingthrough it.
makes a literally create an SOPfor you as you just go through
Those it.
are pretty cool Or tools.
like another tool like You Loom.
could're scrolling through And
it'll it.
actually literally create an SLP
for you as you just go through it.
(16:32):
Those are pretty cool tools or
like another tool like Loom.
You can just talk through it.
That's what I like to do is I justtalk through it and I'm like
someone else put the steps inplace.
I'll just talk through it.
You can figure it out.
You know, that's easy for me,right?
I'm good on video and it justmakes me more comfortable.
I'll just do it that way.
So there's some ways that you can
avoid having to sit down and writedown a super in-depth SOP.
Again, you can send it to an opsperson that'll do it and put it
(16:54):
all the extra details that maybethe detail-oriented person needs
to see.
So that's pretty cool.
I want to talk a little bit about,you've grown a brokerage and
you've grown your sort of coachingor training platform.
What are some of the strategiesthat you have been using in terms
of, I want to really talk aboutthe brokerage and how have you
been able to continue to grow, tokeep business coming in, all that
kind of stuff?Like what are some of the
strategies that you're using rightnow to business?
Yeah, this is really key.
(17:14):
And I'm a little bit more out of
the box type of person.
So while I do think and I'll talk
about this secondarily, while I dothink that your referral partner
relationships are key, I thinkthat right now also consumer
facing relationships are a bitmore important because according
to different data sources outthere, the percentage of
first-time home buyers and thepercentage of applications that
we're taking right now that arefirst-time home buyers are
probably not going to come to youwith an agent.
So who's getting to them first,right?
So being consumer facing, meaningyou're out there, you're pounding
the pavement, you're working withclients before they have a
realtor.
That is the way I've always built
(17:34):
my business.
And I am a really high percentage
of referral business, which meansthat my clients are talking about
and referring me to everybody theyknow.
So one really important thing isyou've got to find ways to ask for
the business, right?So whether it's when you close the
deal, while you're working in thedeal, whether it's your post-close
follow-up, you have to find a waythat fits your personality to ask
for business so that people knowwhen to think of you.
And this is one thing that'scritically important that I
learned when I was a part of BNI,which is your elevator pitch,
(17:56):
right?Right.
If people don't know when to thinkof you, they're not going to think
of you, right?Or they're just gonna be absent
about this.
So I'll just do this with you
really quick.
I had done a coaching call.
And I said to everybody like, Oh,hey, how many of you have looked
up a Christmas cookie recipe inthe last three months?
And everybody kind of looked at meand they were like, Oh, I didn't
or I Yeah, no, I didn't.
And I was like, okay, well, how
(18:18):
many of you have asked a specificperson for some sort of recipe
around Thanksgiving or Christmas?And if I said to you, if I want a
baking recipe, could you refer mea recipe or something?
And a lot of people raise theirhand.
And the point is, is like, whowould you ask for this specific
kind of baking recipe, you inknow, your head?
why Well, do kind of baking recipeyou know in your head?
(18:40):
Well, why do you know who youwould ask in your head?
It's either because they make thebest cookie around, right?
And so that's always going to bethe person you think of.
Or because you've asked thatperson and they responded right
away.
But the whole point is, is like,
if you don't know when to think ofsomebody, you Right.
developing that on the real estateside, there are some really out of
(19:00):
the box things that I think we canbe doing right now.
So first of all, we are handlingobjections that we've never had to
handle.
I don't care if you've been in the
business 20 years like me, 30years or five years.
How many people have had to findan objection for I really don't
want to get my 3% rate?Nobody, we've never had 3% rates
before, right?So sometimes your longevity in the
industry isn't going to matterbecause we've never had these
(19:22):
objections before.
So let me tell you some things
that have worked really well forme.
I'm really busy right now.
I know that is uncommon.
Listen, I came off of 2023 asexhausted as everybody else.
I said, listen, I'm not in thecapacity to make a goal for the
whole 2024.
So I broke it down into quarters.
I said, for 2021, I'm going toleave three to five realtor
reviews a week, right?On Google?
(19:43):
never had tell you On Google?Google their name and whatever
platforms came up first is where Ileft the review.
Because if I'm a client, eitherresearching their name or
researching the area, that's wherethe client's going to get led to
first.
Right, right, right.
Whatever has the most, the mainauthority, right, is ultimately
what you're doing.
Okay, cool.
But I was very intentional aboutthe reviews that I left.
So I had three key things that Iwanted to make on these reviews.
(20:04):
Number one, it was to identifymyself as a lender.
That was really important.
Otherwise, I'm just Jackie Dunlap
and I'm just some Google userleaving a review.
Second was to do some sort ofpertinent key word, right?
So one that I left specificallywas a relocation transaction.
So I specifically use the wordrelocation and explain why this
realtor was great working withthis client that was doing
relocation to Albuquerque, NewMexico.
So that when somebody is Googlingthose specific terms, this
(20:27):
organically is going to come uphigh on the SEO algorithm and
bring up my review, right?So now I've got relocation that
I'm the lender.
And then it's also important to me
that I explain what was good aboutthis transaction, right?
So for this particular realtor,they were really great at doing
video tours for the client becausethey weren't here.
Not all realtors do relocation andthen they're like inconvenienced
by doing these video tours.
And some, that's what they
(20:48):
specialize in.
You might be a client looking at
that and going, oh my gosh, Inever even thought to ask if this
person is willing to do videotours for me, right?
I just wanted to make sure it wasusing key searchable terms that
people would be searching for inmortgages, right?
Some of these realtors had noreviews or I was the first lender
to review them.
And sometimes some platforms will
(21:09):
say, were you a buyer?I'll feel a little bit and say,
yes, I was the buyer.
And I'll say, hey, I represented
the buyer as their lender, right?Because they will have a review
process, right?So I'll put them on there.
But some of these agents have beenin the business seven, eight, nine
(21:31):
years, they had no reviews, theyhad not even a client review.
So now I'm increasing my relevancein any sort of search algorithm.
but I'm also bumping up theirs.
Since I started doing this, one of
the agents has actually sent methree referrals.
to stop you there because I'veheard a lot of cool strategies.
Like that's the first time I'veheard something like this.
And this is a big brain move.
I mean, you just big brained it
over here.
That's incredible because like
I've thought about like, okay,leaving reviews, things like that.
(21:54):
And I'm assuming you'reintentionally leaving reviews on
people you've done transactionswith, not just like random agents,
right?Okay.
So you're doing these, like Iwouldn't even think about the SEO
side of things, which isbrilliant.
And then also, yeah, talking aboutthe things that they were good at
is brilliant as well, because likerelocation, things like, man,
(22:17):
that's blowing my mind right nowthat you're doing that.
And that's cool because a lot oftimes, and I want to go back to
what you said before, talkingabout consumer direct strategies,
some way to get consumers.
I'm sorry, but so many loan
officers lie to themselves and lieto agents that say, you oh, know
what?The realtor just gets all the
leads, right?Like I don't get any leads.
(22:38):
Well, you don't get any leadsbecause you don't do anything to
try to attract consumers.
What do they teach you as soon as
you become a loan officer?Go work realtors.
What do they teach you as soon asyou become a realtor?
Go work his fear of influence.
Why do you think that realtors get
the consumers?Yes, I get it.
The home is a little more sexypart of the transaction.
Of course, they want to see thehome.
(23:00):
But I think loan officers havebrainwashed real estate agents
into believing that only realestate agents can generate leads.
And that's not the truth.
You've clearly been able to do
that.
You can work your past database,
get referrals from those people,refer them back.
That's one direct consumerstrategy.
Work your freaking database.
I mean, generate leads leads
whether it be from paid whether itbe from organic whether it be from
reels tiktoks youtube videos rightlike there's a million strategies
(23:21):
that you as a loan officer canimplement to generate your own
leads i'm sorry but most loanofficers are being lazy they don't
want to nurture people becausehere's the thing they're so used
to getting referrals that areready to buy in the next 90 days.
But that's not how the buyingjourney works.
Home buyers do not wake up in themorning and think, I'm going to
buy a home in the next 90 days.
they No, wake up.
They see a post from Susie whojust bought a home.
(23:42):
They're let me reach out to Susie.
like, what did you have to do to
Like, qualify?you Oh, need a 20%.
you Oh, didn't need 20% down.
You got a three and a half percent
down.
Man, I almost have that.
I should start looking.
Oh, let's check out Zillow.
Let's look at realtor.com.
And then all of a sudden, like
six, 12 months goes by.
And now all of a sudden, they're
with a real estate agent, they'renurturing them, and now they're
ready to buy.
And yet most loan officers have
this sort of crazy conception thatconsumers should only be ready to
(24:09):
buy in the next 90 days.
random Yeah.
And you know, a lot of timespeople, well, consumers, right,
they have the tool of theinternet.
the kind of this, you know, it'sthis place where you can validate
anything depending on how yousearch for it, right?
Coffee's great for you, coffee'sbad for you.
It depends on the language thatyou use in your search.
Let's talk about real estateagents for a second because I had
an agent last week call me.
I'd sent him two referrals within
30 days because he operates in aspecific part of town and he's
very good.
And our relationship is with
specific transactions.
He literally stops me mid
(24:29):
conversation.
He goes, what are you doing?
And I said, what are you made?And he said, well, you know, I'm
talking to these other lenders.
I'm like, Hey, you know, like, do
you have any referrals?And they're like, no, we don't
have any referrals.
Like you're saying, right.
And he goes, and here you are,you've sent me two referrals in 30
days.
Like, what are you doing?
Right?Well, one of the referrals was
literally a referral from arelocation, active military, who's
(24:51):
PCSing to the area, right?So it was a referral to me as
well.
But people know that I work in
certain areas and what I work on.
So I've done a great job, not only
in my sphere of personalrelationships, but in professional
relationships, people know what Ido.
They know when to think of Theother one is a referral from a
past sphere of personal but inprofessional people know what I
do.
me.
client.
relationships, relationships, They
know what to think of me.
One is a referral from a past
(25:14):
client.
So one of the things that I do is
when I'm working with people and Isay, listen, I'm just a really
keep it real.
I'm going to shoot you straight.
I'm going to be very directbecause people get nervous,
especially if they feel like theyhave something that's going to
prevent them from being able tomove forward.
So a lot of times people that comefor me say, Oh, I got your number
from so and so and they said,you're going to shoot me straight.
And that's what they expect fromme.
So again, that's my brand.
The point is, is that people know
when to think of me.
If people don't know when to think
(25:35):
of you, then you haven'testablished your brand.
For real estate agents, the otherkey thing, what we know as loan
officers is guidelines arechanging.
I say a minimum, they change threetimes a year, pretty standard.
Lots of times they change morethan that.
So if you're not signed up withFinney, Fannie, Freddie, or HUD to
get those emails, number one,pause this podcast and go and do
that right now.
And here's why.
(25:56):
When specific changes come out inguidelines, I'm reaching back out
to realtors or the next time Ihave a conversation with a realtor
and I will say, hey, this is a newguideline change for Fannie.
If you have talked with anybody inthe last 30, 60, maybe 90 days,
that this was a preclusion fromthem for moving forward, this is
someone that you're gonna wannarevisit.
So two things are happening here.
Number one, I'm now utilizing the
real estate agent to go backthrough their pipeline and say,
(26:17):
hey, did I have any of theseconversations?
I'm telling them specifically whatto go and look for.
And B, I'm now building my brandwith that real estate agent as a,
hey, this chick is a let's figureit out kind of gal, right?
I work outside the box.
I'm on top of I'm it.
up on the recent changes.
So for example, one of those
changes right now is Fannie Mae'srecent rule change on how they're
looking at timeshares.
Prior to this year, if you had a
(26:38):
default on a timeshare, we lookedat that as a housing event.
So if you defaulted on timeshare,we looked at that as a short zero
foreclosure.
You're two, four, seven years
That's rule change is now we'regoing to look at a timeshare
default, no different than a carloan.
So anybody that you've talked toin the last year who had a
timeshare and that was the reasonthey couldn't move forward, we
want to revisit them.
Sure, they probably signed the
lease.
Sure, they're probably renting,
but let's get in their ear now sothat way when that lease comes to
an end in six months, nine months,three months, they know that this
(27:02):
is now something we can move So Myjob really with any real estate
agent is I want to be in yourtoolbox.
I might not necessarily want to doall my business with you because I
learned the hard way that likewhen agents go on vacation, I all
of a sudden go on vacation.
vacation.
I just didn't know we were takingtime right?
off, time right?off, got a two week vacay, I Or
when we have two years of slowdownand all of a sudden you're four or
(27:22):
five people that were sending youall your business, no longer have
any business to send you.
And now all of a sudden you're
dead in the water because youdidn't continue to nurture
prospects.
You didn't continue to work other
real estate agents.
Like, yeah, that's huge.
And that's the big thing.
That's the whole point of this
podcast, honestly, is not thatlike I'm trying to sell anything
(27:43):
really.
It's like, you need to have a
strategy to actually have asustainable business.
And people talk about, well, I'm areferral only.
Great.
But you still have to have a
systematic way of getting morereferrals, whether that be from
consumers, whether that be frommore real estate agents.
And you have to continuallyreplace those people because a lot
of people then get that and happy.
(28:04):
And they're like, I got 10 people,
they're sending me good business.
I'm fine with this.
But like, what happens if theyretire?
What happens if they decide to bea listing agent?
And they stop doing buyer side.
Man, all of a sudden you're
screwed and you don't have allthese transactions.
Well, and just to touch again onyour strategies as well, I want to
go back to that is a strategy thatI heard from a couple of loan
(28:31):
officers, maybe two, three monthsback was taxes, even something
like, Hey, you know what, if youhad someone that was a little
short on their income, but youknow that they were going to have
the new taxes, or, you know, maybethere was that two year period,
you can reach out to those peopleand have that sort of thing.
Or even when rates went down forlike a, whatever, two week period
of time, right?You could have said, Hey man,
rates went down.
It's down.
You know, maybe some of thesepeople are going to qualify, it
(28:53):
can give up to x amount ofdollars, depending on their credit
scores and figure that there'slike some extra touches that you
can reach out to your partners andjust get free business pretty
much.
Now about those touches, because
there's another strategy here.
And the validity, right with the
new ruling or finding with NARthat agents are going to go to the
list.
That's a real valid, you know,
change in go to the list.
(29:14):
talk about a touch.
Varying sources out in themortgage industry say that loan
originator renewals was down 60%across the nation.
The reality that one of your localrealtors is going to reach out to
a lender and they're no longer inthe business is very high.
So a touch that you can make inyour sphere with people you have
or have not done business with,and I'm talking realtors, title
(29:36):
companies, maybe even inspectorsto say, So I renewed for 2024.
Let me know what you're up to,right?
Like, hey, I want to let you know,different places are saying that
loan officer renewal was down 60%.
I've chosen to renew.
I'd love to touch base.
Let me know if you've renewed so I
can make sure that I know you'restill here.
At some point, the reality is thatyou're going to reach out to a
lender and they may have exitedthe business.
I just want you to know, reach outto me.
I'm here, blah, blah, blah, right?That's just a touch.
Again, you're telling them when tothink of you.
(29:58):
This is also an important email tosend out to the title agents.
Whether they were yours or not,you go back to every CD, every
title company that you closed in2023, 2022.
You send every title agent anemail.
You send a CRM blast saying, hey,we've renewed for 2024.
We're still in the game.
Because they're sources of
information for their real estateagent partners, too.
They could call and be like, oh,my gosh, did you know Sharon left
the mortgage business?And you know, Debbie's going to be
like, oh yeah, I know.
I didn't know, but you know what?
(30:18):
I actually got an email from thisloan officer.
It was actually pretty cool.
You know, they let us know that
they renewed.
You should maybe give them a try,
but it's a specific andintentional touch that lets people
know when to think of your name.
And that's the key.
A lot of times loan officers areputting stuff out in the world and
it's fluff and it's this and that,but there's not really a call to
action.
Right.
It's sort of a different way to doa call to action.
If you don't know when to think ofme, you're not going to think of
(30:39):
the truth is whether loan officersthink this or not, you're
salespeople first.
I mean, let's be honest.
I mean, a lot of people like tohide behind this idea that they're
an advisor and educator and thingslike be salesperson, right?
You don't get paid the type ofmoney you get paid to advise or to
educate.
Yes, that is part of your job as
well, right?You do need to do those things.
You need to be an educator and anadvisor, but you're a salesperson
(30:59):
first.
And being a salesperson doesn't
mean that you're doing thingsunethically.
It just means you got to ask forthe freaking business.
You got to like be a leader.
And another thing that I talk
about all the time, people areprobably sick of hearing this, but
I talk about this because how manytransactions does an average
consumer do?And how many does a loan officer
(31:20):
do?And yet, here we are allowing the
consumer to tell us when they'reready to buy.
And the truth is, yes, you can'tforce anybody to do anything, but
you can explain to them why itmakes sense to buy now if they
have the good credit, good income,good down payment.
We're sitting here lettingconsumers tell us when they're
ready to buy.
And unfortunately to me, I think
that's cowardly.
(31:40):
And I think it just means that
you're not really believing inwhat you do, right?
If you truly believe in thisproduct and the thing that you do,
here's the truth.
They can go to Rocket.
Rocket doesn't care.
They're going to put two points on
the back.
They're going to charge them a
thousand dollar application, bewhatever it is that they do over
but there, they don't They'recare.
going to get that person inprocess and they're going to do it
(32:01):
because they understand thatconsumers don't want to right?
move, They're just going to chargethem $1,000 application whatever
fee, it is that they do over butthere, they don't They're care.
going to get that person inprocess and they're going to do it
because they understand thatconsumers don't want to move,
right?They're just going to stay at rest
if you let them stay at rest.
Sometimes you have to give them a
kick in the butt to get moving.
(32:23):
It just is the truth.
I'm laughing because it's sorelatable, but I've said for many
years, you know, there's threethings that people always want
when they're doing a loan.
It's kind of like the saying in
construction, you can have quickkey or quality, but you can't have
all three, right?You typically can get two of the
three, but you're never gettingall three.
Well, the same is true in lending,right?
People want the lowest rate, thelowest payment and to put the
least amount of money quick key oris true not going to get all
(32:44):
three, right?And you understand how that works,
right?Higher rate, lower costs, higher
rates, higher payment, but thenyou get to keep more of your
money, right?So I used to tell people like,
listen, unless you're planning ongoing on Etsy and getting a
t-shirt with your industry printedon it, it's the least important of
the three.
That is the biggest tool we have
to manipulate the numbers toreally make sure that what's
important.
not going to get all So I And
right now we're in a high rateenvironment, but our expectation
(33:06):
is gonna go low.
So if it makes sense to move
forward now and it works, the bestthing is to move forward now
before you wait like everybodyelse who's saying, right.
And if their consumers are on theinternet, they're hearing this.
They know that people are going towait and wait until rates drop.
So what's the advantage of movingforward now?
that don't know if you have, doyou have kids at have four.
I have seven.
So good.
We both.
all So you got more Oh, than
right.
I So do you have kids do.
(33:27):
at Okay.
all?
I have I have So four.
Okay, We seven.
all right.
good.
both.
Oh, So you got more than I do.
Okay.
So here's the deal, right?
If you've ever been around atoddler, right?
Think about this, you know,toddlers running around just
completely biffs it.
And it's a big bit.
If we react and go, Oh, my God,Johnny, are you okay?
All of a sudden, that kid justbusts out crying where there was a
brief moment where you weren'tsure if they were going to.
(33:47):
all So you got more Oh, thanright.
I So do you have kids do.
at Okay.
all?I have I have So four.
Okay, We seven.
all right.
good.
both.
Oh, So you got more than I do.
God, happening is they're feeding
off of our energy and ourreaction.
Johnny's running through, makes abig biff and we just take a minute
and see how Johnny gets up andreact.
A lot of times they look at us andthen you're like, hey, Johnny,
you're all right.
And they're like, yeah, I'm all
right, I'm okay.
Consumers are the same way.
If you're afraid of the rightenvironment, if you're afraid of
like, oh, I don't know if they'regoing to move forward, that
customer is no different than atoddler and it's going to feed off
of our You've got to really knowwhat you think, believe about this
market.
(34:07):
And that has to come through in
your communication to your realestate agents, to your clients.
If you're like, oh, I know it's ahigh rate, but you no, numbers are
black and white.
Okay.
You've got to adopt a very neutralstance about our environment and
know what you think.
You know what I believe right now?
And people say, well, what do youthink Jackie?
And I'm like, well, would itchange your mind if I told you
that I sold my house with a 3.25rate and bought with a 5.75?
(34:30):
They're like, why would you dothat?
Well, because I had 140 grand ofequity locked up and I didn't
really want to take a HELOCbecause that didn't make a whole
lot of sense because I can't getall the money.
So I sold my house, cleared ahundred grand, bought a new house
and took that money and went andbought an apartment complex.
That's what I did with it.
You think I care about 5.75 right
now?Not even a second thought about it
unless I'm telling the story.
Right, right.
I I care about the 5.75.
(34:51):
And that's really the reality of
like, how are we overcoming theseobjections we've never had before?
So I know what I think about inthis market.
And I tell people, listen, numbersare black and white.
We just have to figure out if thismakes sense for you or A hundred
percent.
That's it.
A hundred percent.
It only matters if it makes sense.
Like if you can afford the monthlypayments, if you're not planning
on moving in a year, right?Like there's some things you got
(35:12):
to think about.
Cause obviously like, I think
there is unethical ways of pushingpeople.
And I think unfortunately a lot ofthose unethical things don't
necessarily happen on the purchaseside, but on the cash out refi
side, you know, people pushingpeople into a cash out refi when
really they might be a betteroption, right?
There's some other things there totake into account as well.
But generally, like sales isleadership.
And you know, again, sales is atransference of energy.
You just talked about that, right?People can feel and I talk about
this concept all the time,commission breath, right?
So many people have so muchcommission breath, and they're so
desperate for the business.
(35:32):
Yes is so evident to people.
And you may not know that you havethat.
But if you're desperate forbusiness, if you're struggling,
you need to have an indifferenceto getting the sale or not, right?
It doesn't matter if you get thesale or not, but you're going to
just put the facts on the line.
And there is also a concept of
when you sort of release thatenergy of needing the sale, it's
like they are pulled to you sostrongly.
And I just did this the other day.
It was like someone like kind of
ghosted me on a follow-up and Isaid, like hey, you don't have to
(35:54):
ghost me.
Like if you're not ready to move
forward, totally fine.
Just don't ghost me.
I don't bite, I promise.
Almost instantly responded and
then ended up signing thecontract.
It was like, it was funny becauseI didn't care.
I was like, just don't make mefreaking chase you, man.
Like if you're not interested,like I just want you to tell me,
right?I'd rather you tell me.
And I think that is something thatloan officers, sometimes they're
like, Oh, I'm going to lose asale.
(36:14):
You're more likely to lose a salebecause you're desperate to get
the sale than you are.
If you're just like, Hey, you can
buy or not.
Here's the facts.
Here's the truth.
And another thing is language and
tonality using words like, yeah,you know, the rate's just 7%
versus, man, I know the rate's 7%.
(36:34):
Right.
Like that's the same In onestatement.
we use just sense, the word whichis just, it know the like, rate's
Oh, Like that's 7%.
Right.
the same statement.
In one we use sense, the word
just, just, which is it's not thatbad.
like, oh, And then the other we'relike, one, oh it's it's so right?
man, 7%, bad, Like who's gonnamove forward?
The person that's 7% is not thatbad, like, oh, you And I think And
(36:55):
the and that's the right?Yeah, key, Like you have to know,
if you think seven's high, that'sgonna come out your communication.
You only think seven's highbecause you only operated at a 3%.
The first loan that I everoriginated was 8.99%.
The first home that I bought backin 2008, we bought down the rate
to seven and an eighth.
We were the cool kids on the
block.
Like people could not believe we
got a rate that low, right?So sometimes your experience
(37:16):
matters, but in the sense thatseven's not it's high, that just,
rate that right?low, So sometimes your experience
matters, but in the sense thatseven's not high, it's just,
that's the cycle, right?It's like trying to save and it's
cold in winter.
It's like, to save and it's cold
in winter.
It's like, well, it's a cycle.
a cycle.
It's supposed to be cold in
winter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Most likely.
I mean, again, we can't promisethat rates are going to come down,
but I had the guy from Monitorbased on one of these podcasts.
(37:38):
He talked about the concept of theaverage home buyer buys about
every 11 years and they typicallyrefinance twice in that time.
So that's like 4 transactions in11 years.
But just to think about thisperspective, in 11 years, that's 4
times.
4 times they're doing loans.
And you're over here worried aboutthis 30-year 7%.
No one keeps a 30-year loan.
Very few people keep a 30-year
loan.
So it's not really that big of a
deal if they can afford thepayments.
Again, don't push something.
(37:58):
Someone's barely affording.
They're at 70% or Yeah, I don'tknow what the DTIs are.
And I'm not a loan officer.
But you know what I mean?
If like you're pushing someoneinto something they probably
shouldn't be in that they can'treally afford, then okay, like,
that's probably not something youshould do.
But on the other side of things,like, if they're wanting to do
this, like you shouldn't like talkthem out of doing something
because I don't If they're wantingto do like you shouldn't this,
like talk them know, out of doingsomething I because I don't know.
(38:20):
mean, I unless mean, unless it'sit's in their in their best best
interest.
interest.
it's in their in their best bestinterest.
interest.
Dude, I had this story several
years ago where it was a friend ofours and I had done the purchase
when they bought the home.
And it was about maybe a year and
a half later and he calls me abouta refi, right?
And I'm still sort of new in thebrokerage, owning the brokerage
space.
I was like, man, we're on the
numbers.
I called him and I was kind of in
(38:40):
a place where like I needed theloan, but it was a friend.
So I was like, hey, man, like wecould do the refi, but like we're
only going to save you like $74 amonth.
And I'm not really sure if anyinterrupts me.
And he goes, wait a minute.
And it was about January.
It was like the end of December.
And he said, wait a minute.
So you're telling me I can skiptwo payments and then my payment's
going to go down $75 a month.
And I was like, yeah, but and he's
(39:01):
like, let's do it.
And in that moment, I realized
that the value of money and theperception of value of money is
each individual's perception.
$75 $75 and missing two payments
was a huge value for him.
The value that I placed on that
was my own.
And I learned in that moment that
it was never my job to determinethe value of any degree of savings
or lack thereof.
It was my job to listen to the
client for them to tell me this istheir money and I am the
facilitator on how it is spent inthis capacity.
(39:21):
That is it.
And that's really when I began to
remove a lot of my emotion aboutwhether or not something was good
or bad because loans are not goodor bad it's whether or not the
client understands what they'resaying yes to or no to loans are
just the tool so if you don't havethat unattachment to what you're
doing I would strongly encourageyou to get to that place that
(39:41):
loans are neither good or badrates are neither good or bad they
Rates are neither good or bad.
They're just or to or no to tools,
Right now, let's see, we'refilming March 1st.
If I said to you, as someone inthe industry, 5% rate, a
consumer's gonna be like, oh,that's great.
And you and I are you I got a fewquestions.
What does it cost you to get thatrate?
Because I'm telling you right nowto get a 5% rate, you're talking
20 to 30 grand.
Now that 5% doesn't seem like such
a good rate to us professionalsbecause we know that a to get
that.
Now that doesn't make 5% bad.
(40:03):
What makes this situation bad isthat the client doesn't understand
what it takes to get a 5% rate.
And all of a sudden they're like,
why are my closing costs $50,000?Well, because you wanted 5% and it
costs $27,000 for the rate.
Well, I didn't know that.
5% is not bad.
The loan's not bad.
It's the fact that the clientdidn't know that.
Right.
100%.
That is 100%.
It's all about the perception from
the consumer's perspective, forsure.
So to sort of close things outThat is all of out is all from the
(40:29):
consumer's for perspective, sure.
So to sort of close things out I
always like to leave with onetactic, here, one strategy that
people can implement.
So I know we've talked about a
bunch of stuff, but if you haveany other ideas, one thing that a
loan officer, maybe they'restarting new in the industry,
maybe if you were to get startedagain, what's one thing, one
strategy that you would tell aloan officer to go out and get I
would say you need to attend asmany community type networking
functions as possible.
And as you get busy, this is the
key part.
As you get busy, you don't stop
going to them.
But the more that people know your
name, know when to think of you,the more that you show up, the
more your business will come.
(40:49):
You need to practice your elevator
pitch.
You need to practice making sure
people know who you are and whento think of you.
more The downfall is that as westart to get busy, we think, oh, I
don't have time to go to thosethings.
Absolutely not.
You carve that time out and you
continue to go or your businesswill fall true.
You to make yourself known.
What's true, it's like the same
concept of like, even going liketo the gym or like having a
morning routine.
It's like, as we get busy, we're
(41:11):
like, Oh, we're just going togrind.
And next thing we know is thethings that were actually keeping
us able to do the hard work wasgoing to the gym and eating well
and things like that.
And we start to slip off those
things.
We can't go.
So it's the same concept.
It's like, cool.
Like now we're getting busy.
It's the reason why most loan
officers kind of go in thesecycles, ups and downs and ups and
downs is because they prospect,prospect, prospect, prospect, get
(41:31):
the loans.
Then they process the loans.
And the next thing you know, crap,I don't have any loans.
Let me go out and process.
That's the 30 day rule.
It comes from fanaticalprospecting, right?
Like there's a 30 day rule thatactions that you take in the next
30 days have a 90 to 180 day,especially in the mortgage
(41:52):
industry, 90 to 180 day lag time,right?
So you're going to see that iflike, you're slow right it's now,
probably because 90 to 180 dayslag right?
time, So you're going to see thatif like, you're slow right now,
it's probably because 90 to 180days ago, you took a break.
Hey, we had Christmas andThanksgiving.
If you're slow right now,honestly, it's probably because
you took a couple months offduring that time.
(42:14):
I'm hearing a lot of people arereally busy right now.
And I believe it's the people thatgrinded during October, November
and December of last year.
And that's why they're reaping the
benefits right now in this market.
So thank you so much for your time
today, Jackie.
If someone wanted to learn more
about your brokerage or yourtraining program or any of that
stuff, what's the best way toconnect with you, learn more about
those programs?Yeah, so I'm easily located on
(42:36):
Google.
I have a YouTube channel.
You can find me, my information'sout there everywhere.
You can find me really easy onFacebook.
Direct messaging me on Facebook isprobably one of the easiest ways
to get ahold of me withoutshouting out my phone number on
your podcast.
All good.
All good.
That's the best way to find me.
Just Google my name and some sortof mortgage, either processing or
(42:58):
lending, and I'll come right up tothe top.
That's a lot today.
Some of my big takeaways from
today was one, we started withprocess.
Learning how to create processesin your business is pivotal to
growth.
And again, you talked about the
concept of like, just tounderstand that if you want to
grow at scale, you have to dothings a certain way.
(43:18):
But you also don't have to dothat.
I think that is a bigmisconception in this industry.
And really in any high performancespace is like we want these things
like the $100 million producer,whatever I want to do 50 million.
It's like, do you like you knowwhat that means for your life?
Do you know what the sacrificesyou have to do?
Do you know what you have to giveup to do that?
Like, and sometimes, and I didthis, like I built my business to
hit, I'm going to hit a hundredgrand a month, right?
Like that's, I'm going to be amillion dollar company.
(43:40):
And it was like, but why?Like, what was the purpose of it?
And I got burnt out, you know?So there was a lot of things that
happened.
So I don't recommend it again.
And I still want to keep growing,but in the right way with
processes, with systems, with ateam and all that kind of cool
stuff.
So that's a big aha for me.
It was just not a ha or just likea big takeaway for me.
(44:03):
A second is we almost did like awhole second podcast where we
talked about some crazystrategies, Google using those
reviews, some cool strategies andget more referrals.
Man, this was a packed, packedepisode.
Any last parting words, Jack,before we head out?
Listen, I'm going to shoot youstraight all the time, always.
I've been saying 2024 is acharacter year, not a character
building year.
This is a character revealing
year.
This year is going to reveal
whether or not you have done thethings.
(44:24):
And the reality is, is you'reeither doing the things that you
say you're doing or that you'regoing to do, or you're not.
And this is the year that's goingto reveal that.
So if I could, you know, encourageanybody to just truly be a hundred
percent committed to executing thethings you say you're going to do
at the elite level that you knowthat you are capable of and your
character will shine in the end.
This is one of those years, this
year's making and breaking peopleleft and right.
So, you know, let that charactershow by committing 100% to an
elite level of completion to thethings that you commit to, which
(44:47):
also means you need to beintentional about what you're
committing to.
And it might be saying no to some
Well, I mean, I gave up alcohol acouple months ago and that's one
of the things that I know thatdoesn't make me the person I want
to be.
And so for now, it's part of my
identity just because again, Imean, it didn't serve me, you
know, it gives you hangovers, allthat kind of stuff.
It makes you sleep like crap for alittle bit.
So it's one of those things thatyou may have to give up alcohol.
You may have to give up, you know,Netflix or something, but it comes
(45:08):
down to, yeah, executing at a highlevel.
What is the thing that you want toaccomplish?
So thank you so much for your timetoday.
And for anybody who's listeningand is looking for some help on
marketing and flipping the statusquo on real estate agents, go to
flip the status quo.com.
Thank you so much for listening
and have a great day.
Thank you for tuning into the
loans on demand podcast on loanson demand podcast.com.
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