Dom in the Streets. Sub Between the Sheets: The Truth About Dom & Sub Personality Traits

Episode Transcript
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Annette Benedetti (00:03):
Hi, this is Annette Benedetti, your hostess
for a locker room talk and shots, the podcast that likes to
think of itself as the queer NPRof raunchy women's sex talk.
You are about to sit in on thekind of conversations women have
on their girls' nights out orbehind closed doors, while
enjoying delicious drinks anddishing about sex, think, fun,

(00:26):
honest and feminist as fuck, andalways with the goal of
fighting the patriarchy.
One female orgasm at a time.
Welcome to the locker room.
Today's locker room talk andshots topic is Domin the Streets

(00:47):
sub between the sheets thetruth about dominant and
submissive personality traits.
Listeners, you know I'm allabout the Dom sub relationship
and I don't know how many timesyou guys have been through this,
but you know I've thought Iwanted one thing in a partner a
dominant person, a Dom, and I,you know, spent years flipping

(01:09):
through the dating apps, goingout on dates with people who
swore up and down they weredominant, and then we'd get
together and I'm like what inGod's name is this?
And over the course of the lastcouple of years of my life,
I've had moments where I'm likewhat in God's name am I and, I
think, a lot of us who are drawnto, in a sexual sense, the Dom

(01:33):
sub relationship, oftentimesfind ourselves confused about
what we are, what we want, whyit's not working out.
Well, lucky you and lucky me,I've got a guest here today who
has really put in the time,effort and research into
defining, understanding andexplaining the Dom sub

(01:54):
relationship and the people whoidentify themselves as dominant
and submissive, and she is goingto answer a lot of our
questions.
I'm confident and my goal isthat by the end of this podcast
you are going to have I thinkit's going to blow your mind
Truly.
She published a book I'm goingto be telling you about.
I read it.
My mind is blown, but you'regoing to have a lot of these

(02:16):
questions answered.
You are going to know betterwhere you fit in, if at all, to
the dominant and submissiverelationship style and hopefully
you'll be better able to definewhat you are and who you're
looking for.
My guest today is Chris M Lyon.
She is a relationship expertand coach, certified in applied

(02:36):
neuroscience and brain health.
She is the author of leadingand supportive love the truth
about dominant and submissiverelationships and she has
coached thousands through crisis, trauma and leadership for over
two decades.
Chris, I would like to hand themakeover to you and let you
tell my listeners a little moreabout you.

Chris M. Lyon (02:57):
Oh, my goodness, thank you so much for this
opportunity.
I love being here.
I just love what I do.
I work with people on theirrelationship with themselves and
others, and I've noticed thatthere are themes and there are
trends over all the years thatI've worked with so many people
and heard from so many people,so I was really glad to be able

(03:18):
to write this book and thenrecently put it on audio for
more people to learn from it andlearn about themselves and
their relationships.
So very much about that, andI've been coaching clients and
working with clients for acouple decades, almost a quarter
of a century.
I also am a board certifiedhypnotist, so that's fine to mix
that in there with that too.

So she did mention this book is on audible
audio so you can download it andlisten to it and I want to
highly recommend it to anyonewho is curious about the Dom sub
relationship style, dynamic etc.
I will, of course, put a linkto that at the end of the

(03:58):
podcast in the notes below, butI've got tons of questions and
we don't have enough time to getthrough them.
Also, let's cheers and let'sraise our glasses.
I'm ready to enjoy a drink andtalk about dominant and
submissive folks.

All right, we got a lot to go through.

So let's dive right in.
So first of all, I read yourbook.
You have done you did your ownresearch a lot of your own
research on the dominant andsubmissive relationship style.
So what I'd like to start thisconversation is with your
definition of the dominant andsubmissive relationship.

Yes, and this would be the long term committed
relationship.
So, because people see it in acouple of different ways, so I
would say that it is a long termcommitted relationship.
The dynamic is of a leader anda follower.

I think that'd be probably the best way
to describe it, for for mostpeople, and in your book you
don't frame it you change whatyou call each person in the
relationship from dominant andsubmissive to leading and
supportive.

Yes.

Can I ask you why you made that change?
That's an interesting story.

I wanted to include everyone who is.
I call it a relationshiporientation.
So if you're a dominant orsubmissive partner, that is your
relationship orientation andthat's regardless of your
lifestyle or what kind of sexyou're into, what kind of kink
you're into, it really is justwho you are.
So I wanted to include everyone.

(05:45):
So in the survey that I did, Iasked people what do you think
you know what term should we use?
And I gave them some choicesand they voted for leading and
supportive.
Not that I'm trying to changeit.
I think it's great.
I call it dominant, submissiveand that's more what the
mainstream looks at.
But my point was to point itout as a relationship.

(06:08):
It's that I'm talking about arelationship, so leading and
supportive can fit everyone whois dominant, submissive or whose
vanilla, and doesn't seethemselves as in that way Also.
those terms could have negativeconnotations for some people,
unfortunately.
I wish they didn't.
So my the people who I polled,which were a few hundred people.

(06:30):
They decided on thatterminology and I use that in
the book, but in my own teachingand talking with people I
mostly use dominant andsubmissive.

Right.
So to clarify for my listenersa couple of things.
First of all, chris herself hasdone a lot of research on this
topic.
You put out and I just wasreading the book, so it was
hundreds of people you did asurvey, you polled yourself
about this lifestyle.
Beyond that, the research youdid and people you talked to and

(07:04):
so on and so forth, to kind ofcome up with this sort of guide
that you've put together fordominant and submissive
relationships.
So, listener, this isn't, thisisn't just about sex, it's not
just about how you bang, and wewill touch on that a little bit
later.
But why I found this book socurious and interesting to me is

(07:26):
I wonder how many of us try toonly the only way we think about
the Dom's relationship is likesexually, and we run into road
bumps there.
Perhaps by broadening ourdefinition and trying to
understand how it could be alsoexist in a relationship style,

(07:49):
it might make finding thatperfect partner a little bit
easier.
So Chris is going to talk to usabout it on that broader level
of an actual full timerelationship style.
This isn't about kink or sex.
This is about intimacy,building a life together,
correct?

Yes, and that makes the kink and sex better.

Right, right, so that is the definition, and
can you talk just a little bitabout how that type of
relationship looks from a day today basis, like when people are
like, wait a seconds.
What does that mean?
Is that a guy bossing a womanaround, or can you clarify this

(08:33):
a little bit for listeners?

Well, I think that's a great question.
Part of the research that I didwas that I have lived as a
dominant, submissive DS partner.
I've lived as one of thosepartners actively, every single
day of my adult life.
I never have not been activelythat partner type in a
relationship.
I've also worked with clientsover many years as well that

(09:01):
were either a dominant orsubmissive partner and they may
not have realized it and theycame to the realization that,
yes, yes, that's me.
So there's that, plus the pollthat I took, the survey and plus
all the research that I did forso many years, and I just I
feel like day to day reallydepends on the individuals,
right, but it really is.

(09:22):
In the relationship there issomeone who is leading as the
relationship goes along.
They say in my book I say it'slike a captain and first mate.
They're both working on thevoyage together as a team, and
so there's someone who isleading and there's someone who
is supportive.
They're both supportive, butthe supportive partner who's

(09:45):
following.
And this doesn't mean that theleader has the best
communication Sometimes theydon't Doesn't mean that the
leader always knows how to leadand doesn't need to learn more.
But really it's someone whofeels safe and feels valued to

(10:05):
be the leader, make thedecisions and do the guiding,
and the other person feels lovedand safe to have that structure
, to get that direction, to beable to have that to work with.
They're both in service to eachother.
So it will a little bothersomeone when I find that a lot
of dominance or people saythey're dominant are all about

(10:29):
their partner serving them.
And if you look at a lot ofthese books which there's a lot
of great books about the dynamicout there and there are about a
lot of specific lifestyles.
There are a lot of books outthere on disciplining and
training the submissive partner.
I don't think there are allthat many books out there about
how to be a better leader.

(10:50):
But that's really how it goes.
Both partners are with theircounterpart and they're doing
their part in the dynamic tomake it work.
And it really causes like abeautiful connection that just
thrives Day to day more and more.
There's less power struggles wecan talk about that later if

(11:11):
you'd like but there are a lotof advantages that DS partners
enjoy.
I would never, ever suggestthat somebody force that on
themselves or try to push thaton themselves or their partner.

So it is two people choosing to be in the
role they want to be and lookingfor their counterpart.
I think people who want to bethe submissive in a partnership
oftentimes are looking forpeople to make some of those big
decisions and they're like I'mthe person that can take that
big decision and help you pushit through.

(11:43):
Like I am the person who isgoing to help you get that
through the door, but you'regoing to tell me where to go and
then I'm going to run with itwith all my skills and I can see
how that would just be such astress relieving place to be.
Like you give me a directionnow I just take my tools and I
show you what I can do to makethis a success.

Yes, if your relationship orientation is that
of a submissive partner.
You've just summed it up sowell.
That's what they want, that'swhat helps them get things done,
that's what helps them feelloved and connected, having that
kind of structure.
And I can tell you that I'velearned more about this
relationship and this dynamicfrom submissive partners than

(12:31):
anyone else by far.
In fact, I've learned more inmy life from submissive partners
than anyone else by far.
In fact, submissive partnersare some of the greatest, most
amazing, powerful leaders in theworld, and then you know what a
lot of time they go getterstheir decision makers, their
leaders, and then, at the end ofthe day, when it comes to their

(12:51):
relationship, they just want tosoft place to lay their head
and they don't want to have tobe bothered to make the
decisions.
They want that structure inplace.

Right, and this is a beautiful segue into
what I want to do next, which istalking about the personality
traits, the real personalitytraits of DOMs and submissives.
And I want to start with thesubmissive, because I don't
think people really understandwhat a true submissive

(13:25):
personality is like.
So I want to start with a quotethat I pulled from the book
that really struck me and likespoke and I don't know what I am
, I'm just going to put that outto you.
I think that this was somethingthat really struck me while I
was reading some of thepersonality traits you listed

(13:46):
for a submissive.
It said decisiveness, directionand guidance from their partner
makes them feel secure andloved.
That guidance and decisivenessis what makes them feel secure
and loved, and that just thosewords leapt off the page to me

(14:15):
and I thought that makes so muchsense.
You know, in a relationship withsomeone, I think sometimes we
get into relationships and wedon't understand why we aren't
feeling secure or why we aren'tfeeling loved.
They brought me roses, theytold me I'm pretty and I was
like God damn, like this makessense.

(14:35):
I want to dive into.
You know, that was justsomething that left out to me,
but I'd like you to dive deeperinto the submissive personality.

Well, what you read was what I've heard from
literally tens of thousands ofsubmissive partners, clients,
followers, readers, etc.
And that's huge for them andusually that would leap out at
someone who would tend to bemore on the spectrum of the

(15:06):
submissive side versus thedominant side.
That wouldn't leap out for adominant partner so much.
You know what I'm saying.
But as far as the submissivepartner, I think for me, what I
want people to know, number oneis not all submissive partners
are submissive people.
I really want to underline that.

(15:28):
They are, again, incrediblypowerful, amazing people.
They are good at leading, butagain, their relationship
orientation leads them to bethat follower in the
relationship.
They are really good at pickingup the nuances in the
relationship.
They're very good atanticipating their partner.

(15:49):
There are so many things thatthey, so many strengths that
they bring to their relationshipand the leading.
They're also the biggest sourceof learning for the leading
partner, for the dominantpartner, because people don't
realize this.
But they will guide theirpartner.
They will guide them.
They will bring things up tothem.

(16:11):
They will come to them andexplain their point of view or
how they see things.
They'll ask questions that arereally thought provoking.
They will guide the leadingpartner, and people don't
realize that.
So a lot of them again, theirleaders.
They're independent people,they're strong people.
They're not all submissivepeople Many of them are not and

(16:32):
they can guide their leader.
Their leader can learn fromthem.
So people think that they'rewishy-washy or they're weak or
they can't make their owndecisions.
This is that's just not true.
This is a relationshiporientation.
It's very real for them.
Unfortunately, another thingabout them is that they they can
tend to think that someone is adominant partner when they're
not.

Yeah, so there's a whole little recipe
for that.

But that is actually one of the biggest
problems that I've seen in DSrelationships.
They think someone may be adominant partner and it's just
not the case.
That's that that caused a lotof pain and suffering,
unfortunately.

Yeah, I was.
I was also looking through yoursocial media doing my research
and I had seen there was thispiece about how the submissive
will dive into the research andstart doing all of the research
on the really or what I and Ithink it could be in anything
like the dominance, as we'redoing this, and then you're like

(17:35):
, all right, I'm going to makeit happen.
You're doing the research, blah, blah, blah, and then your
partner, who's in the leadposition, just doesn't like it,
doesn't do anything with it.

And here you are, yeah, ouch.
So what happens is, if thesubmissive partner doesn't have
a dominant partner who'sactually leading and working to
be a better leader, thesubmissive partner will go out
and do the research for them andthen they'll try to do the work
for them, and then they'll endup taking over the leadership

(18:09):
position in the relationshipwhen that's the last thing they
wanted to do.
But they do it to save therelationship, waiting for
something to happen, waiting forit to take, and when they do
the leadership position, theother partner doesn't go along
with it, so it's very painful.
That's why I warn people aboutyour betting making sure that

(18:32):
your partner is a dominantpartner, because a lot of times
a submissive partner has to endup taking over when that's just
it's heartbreaking to see thatso yeah, yeah, it would make
sense.

I think I have a very dominant personality
.
I definitely do, and I also amsomeone who obviously I've led a
lot of things in myprofessional life and stuff like
that, and so I could see howeasily, even though I think when
it comes to intimaterelationships for sure, I have a

(19:08):
strong preference to be in thesub role.
It's easy then if things aren'tgoing the way you want them to
be, like all right, but I alsohave all of the skills that it
takes to push something alongwhich then suddenly you're in
the leading role, right.
Then you're yeah, then you'relike oh, I'm just being a dumb

(19:30):
again.

Yeah, yeah, bummer, yeah, that's interesting
.

So some of the most surprising traits of a
sub are that they tend to beleaders, naturally in other
areas of their life, andpowerful people, decision makers
but they're looking for loveand to experience love and
security with a partner who'swilling to, when it comes to

(19:55):
your personal life, kind of takethe lead and give them a break
there.
So that's interesting.
Well then, what is the dominantpersonality tend to be?

Well, people are surprised about this too
Dominant partners I have foundto be.
A lot of them are sensitivepeople.
They're sensitive people.
They're very private and theyquestion themselves a lot.
They are, they have.
They're very conscientiouspeople.

(20:31):
They're looking out for theirpartner and their family you
know them and theirs to look outfor them and protect them.
They do second guess themselves.
They can be hard on themselves.
They are very sensitive.
They can get their feelingshurt.
And again, they are much moreprivate people and especially
about their relationship.

(20:51):
You'll find that when you seepeople really flashing their
relationship and just going onabout it, you know accusably a
lot of times it's the submissivepartner and the dominant
partner is being pretty quietabout it.
So it's interesting because alot of dominant partners really
aren't so much about show votingas much and a lot of times

(21:14):
they're not domineering and alot of times in their lives
they're good followers.
They respect leadership.
So there's that not saying thatthey aren't leaders in other
areas of their lives, becausesome of them are, but I think
they respect the structure andare able to work as a team
player.
They don't need to always bethe boss, they don't need to be

(21:36):
domineering, they don't need topush people around.
So you'll see a dominantpartner in life a lot of times
isn't trying to take over intheir friends' lives and other
people's lives or at work.
A lot of times they're goodteam players, from what I've
seen.

Yeah, so would you say.
I think there are somemisconceptions.
Maybe I'm wrong in saying thatthat people who are doms tend to
be like alpha personalities.
Is that true?

You know, there are a lot of submissive partners
that are alpha personalitiesout in the world and there are
some dominates that are alphapersonalities out in the world.
From what I've seen, the moresomeone who says they're a
dominant partner, the more theyassert their alpha self out
amongst other people.
To me, the less of a dominantthat I would think they are,

(22:31):
because they're needing to goand force that on people.
So I think either partner canbe an alpha, absolutely, but if
you look at you, know they'vedone studies on pack leaders and
they're saying some of thatresearch was wrong.
But I think that dominantleaders like to be the head of
the, the family, the head of thepack and do the leading.

(22:51):
I think that's where they feelthey belong, and I don't think
that they fit real wellelsewhere.

What is one of the most surprising traits of
a dominant personality?
Is there something that standsout to you that's like?
This is something nobody wouldsuspect they'd see in a dom?

They can, they can have, they can be wrapped
around their submissive finger.
They also show their belly totheir submissive partner.
They can be very vulnerable.
They have a hard time showingthat because if they show
vulnerability or they show aquestion in their leadership, it
may make their submissivepartner think less of them or

(23:34):
maybe question their ability tolead.
But the other thing too is theylean on their partner and when
they lean, they can lean hardand people people don't realize
that, but they're, they'repeople too and they can get,
they're feeling sort of too.
They can get abused as well andmistreated by their partner.
But yeah, when they lean, theylean hard and it's.

(23:57):
It's tough for them to bevulnerable when they are.
It's a beautiful thing withtheir, that's what they're the
submissive partners are like I'mnot only, can I handle it,
let's do.
I want that, you know I, they,they accept all of their partner
.
So I think it's it's prettybeautiful.

So there are a number of surprising things
about dominant partners.

People don't wouldn't guess initially.

Right.
Well, how can you be a dominantpartner or a leader if you
don't have anyone to lead?
So you know your submissivebecomes.
It would seem to me correct meif I'm wrong, I am definitely
not the expert that the dominantis super dependent on their
submissive for that role, forlike being whole in that role,

(24:40):
right?

Absolutely, absolutely.

So now we have sort of a framework of what
the different personalitytraits are for dominant and
submissive people.
I think the next logical placeto go is what if someone's like,
okay, now I know that, how do Iknow?
If I want to be in a dominantand submissive relationship,

(25:05):
what are some of the perks tobeing and this is within your
personal life folks?
This means you've come togetherwith somebody and you've
decided hey, you know, as webuild our life together, I kind
of want you in this position andI want to be in this position
and you have agreed, both of you.

(25:25):
That's the way it's going to go.
And understand, in anyrelationship and you mentioned
this in your book there is,either said or unsaid, a
choosing of roles, right, and Iwould argue, most often people
aren't even mapping that out.
People aren't having a verbalcommunication about what is my

(25:46):
role in this relationship, whatis yours.
And I am imagining afterreading this book which I hadn't
thought about this at allbefore, because I've certainly
never sat down with a long-termpartner and discussed our role
that that's probably the causeof a lot of issues in
relationships Nobody knows who'sdoing what, maybe Right.

(26:07):
So this is an agreement withclear roles.
Let's talk about all of thebenefits to entering into this
kind of relationship.

Well, it's beneficial if you are that
partner type.
If you're not that partner type, not so beneficial.
So, and this is like the kindof partner that someone is,
regardless of like religiousbeliefs or any kind of early
indoctrination this is reallytheir natural inclination as a

(26:43):
partner.

So the benefits are great.

You know, when you find your counterpart, it's
good fit.
There is a closeness that'shard to describe.
There's an understanding, andthe reason there's such a this
closeness and understanding inthis way between the two people
is that they're generally inhealthy relationships that are

(27:09):
dominant, submissive.
There is less of a powerstruggle.
Someone's not questioning theother, they're not trying to
take over a certain role orresponsibility, and you're right
, A lot of times this happenswithout people really going over
it and talking about it.
They just find somebody, youknow, that feels like their
counterpart.
The other person is great andjust there's this organic

(27:33):
development of theirrelationship and both partners
are loving what they're gettingfrom the other one and the role
that they're in, what they'reable to give.
They love it.
It's just it feels like home.
There's this great home, greatunderstanding.
There's great bond.
It's a special bond, I believe.
And then the power strugglesjust they're not an issue like

(27:56):
they would be in anotherrelationship.
So, there's more of a.
I believe there's more of a andpeople say you know, I need
more structure and some peoplesay I don't want as much
structure in their relationship,but there's more of an
automatic knowing of whereyou're supposed to go and what
you're supposed to be doing andif you're supposed to be
checking in or any of that.
If you have a dominant partnerthat would like a submissive

(28:18):
partner to behave a certain wayin public, right, and they say a
couple of those things to theirsubmissive partner.
A lot of times a submissivepartner is going to be like
great, that'll make us feel moreconnected and you know I'm
looking forward to it.
A lot of times, submissivepartners come to the dominant
partners and say you know, I'dlike to ask if I can go to the
restroom when we're out inpublic.
If you can, let me know you cangive me permission and I'd like

(28:39):
that to happen.
Some people don't care aboutthat.
There are other things aboutordering food and all kinds of
cool stuff you can come up with,right.
That keeps both in their placewith each other.
So you know how people inrelationships get out of their
place with the other one andthey get out of that
connectedness with the other.
The structure that a DS couplehas by nature keeps them in that

(29:03):
space of the partner type thatthey are.
You know, serving the other onein the way that they do Is it
hard to put into words, but it'sa pretty easy dynamic.
Once you have two, that youknow someone who's really a
dominant, someone's reallycommissive, it comes pretty
naturally and I think people aresurprised about it.

I think people may seem a little strange
to some people, but I thinkit's fantastic.
I think in your book way yousaid maybe you quoted someone
else, but one of the comparisonswas to a dance like that
dynamic, working in arelationship like people I can't
remember maybe doing the tangoor something like dance partners

(29:45):
, knowing you know what to dobecause one person's leading and
one person's following andtogether you're moving together
to create this beautiful dance,right?
Yes, and the minute you know theperson following starts trying
to lead, or vice versa.
You got this show on your hand,right Like no longer are you

(30:08):
creating a beautiful dance,someone's toes are getting
stepped on or you'redisconnecting from each other.

Yes, yeah, Think about it.
Have you ever tried to learnhow to dance with somebody who,
if you want to be led, theycouldn't lead?
Or if you're trying to lead,they're not following?
It is, it is.
So it doesn't look so good onthe dance floor, but, you're
right, it disconnects, it does,and it's awkward.

(30:34):
It doesn't have so much of afit, but, boy, is there a
wonderful flow when it's matchedup and you see people doing
this.
You see, in these people whoare dancing together,
professional dancers orexperienced ones, they already
know who will lead and who willfollow.
And it's just, it's beautifuland it's.

(30:54):
There's really no way to do it,except for having both partners
be clear on who they are to theother one.

Yeah, and that does sound nice.
I think when I look at thestruggles I've had in
relationships throughout my life, it's, uh yeah, the lack of
clarity around, or you know,even not knowing, that sometimes
you disconnect from yourpartner and you're like I don't
even know why.
Right, but you didn't reallyknow what was making it work in

(31:23):
the first place, what your rolewas right.
So in this relationship style,it is clear.
So something we should havementioned up front and we did
not, but we will do it now isthis is not a gender.
These roles are not genderdependent, right?
Can we clarify that forlisteners?
This is not like the man isalways the uh Dom.
I mean this.

(31:44):
It goes for all genders allsexuality, 100%, yes, okay.
Absolutely.

That's what I'm saying.
Is that a lot of times peoplesay you know, the man should
lead, the man should lead, and Iknow some people believe that
and I can fight about it, butthen there are men who are
really good at following in therelationship.
That's what they want.
And then there's so much shameassociated with that because of
what people are telling them andthat's unfortunate.
And the same thing with womenwho are leaders, who are

(32:13):
dominance.
It's unfortunate, it should.
It's again.
It's a relationship orientationand whatever kind of gender or
whatever life you're in, or ifyou're vanilla or kinky or any
of that, it's still yourrelationship orientation and I
urge people to honor that.

Relationship orientation.
I like that.
What are some of the drawbacksto being in a dominant
submissive relationship?

You know the drawbacks from a relationship
that actually has a dominantsubmissive partner.
There could be the same thingas another relationship where
they're both.
You know they may not havelearned how to have a healthy
relationship.
Sometimes dominant partnersdon't know how to communicate as
well, and so they kind of willshut down the communication and

(33:04):
the submissive partner issuffering and the relationship
suffers.
A lot of times the submissivepartner won't want to bring
issues to their dominant.
They won't want to come to themand tell them they're having
these issues and they'd like tohave changes made, because they
feel like they're what toppingfrom the bottom, feel like they
don't want to be the ones incontrol, but then the dominant
can't read their mind, so theyare obligated to bring that to

(33:27):
their partner, just like ifthere was a problem with the
ship, the first mate needs toreport that to the captain.
You can't just look at it andwell you know captain's come
across it.
That's one, but what I haveseen, that are some of the
biggest problems.
Trouble areas for DS partnersare people on the outside, and

(33:52):
this would be in a couple ofdifferent areas.
Number one therapists, mentalhealth practitioners.
A lot of them don't understandit and a lot of them have a
strong bias against it, which isreally really unfortunate and
harmful.

Now some of them get it.

I've had some people some of my readers bring
their books to their therapistand say ask them to read it.
And they did and it helped.
I've heard too many stories ofpeople saying you know, I went
to my therapist about someproblems in my life and it
wasn't about my relationship andmy relationship is fine, right,
dominic Smith's relationshipand the therapist warned me

(34:32):
about the relationship and toldme I shouldn't be in that kind
of relationship.
That's harmful.
So a lot of therapists who maynot understand the dynamic.
That could be a problem.
So people out in the outsidewill be friends and loved ones
who don't understand, who areworried for one of the partners.
Usually it's a miss a partneror they've just lost control and

(34:56):
influence over this person andthey don't like the fact that
somebody else is a biggerinfluence.
They don't like it at all.
So a lot of times they'll bejudgmental or they'll be
negative towards the partner orthe relationship or everyone
both involved and they'll takeshots at them and they won't be
as accepting and that caused alot again, again, hurt and harm.

(35:21):
So from what I've seen, theseare some of the biggest
struggles, and I think thebiggest struggle is when one of
the partners is not a real DSpartner and that's a real mess.
That's a big problem.
So but yeah, those are some ofthe biggest problems.

Yeah, I think a couple of thoughts come to
mind when you talk about peopleon the outside.
I think there are a couple ofthings.
I think that especially and Ibelieve you touched on this in
the book if it is the womanwho's decided in this
relationship, I want to be inthe submissive role that people

(35:59):
can be very like.
Oh, you're not being, I thoughtyou were a feminist.
Like no feminist would want tobe submissive in a relationship,
and so people will make thatwoman feel bad or like, and then
I can imagine you'd also havequestions within yourself like

(36:20):
oh my God, I am a feminist, butI don't really.
I really want to, in myrelationship, have my partner
lead.
What are your thoughts aroundthat?

Well, I think it's unfortunate, because if
you're a feminist like thedefinition of being a feminist
isn't telling other people howto have their relationships.
So if you're seeing a womanwho's happy in their
relationship and they feel lovedto me, I think you want to
celebrate that and that'd besomething that we appreciate
seeing.
So I always have to look atwhere the other person's coming

(36:58):
from when they're having aproblem with their relationship.
It's usually the problem withinthemselves and not the real
relationship, and also with mentoo.
Oh, you're supposed to beleading, you're supposed to be
making the decisions.
I believe that most householdsin the world are run by women,
that people are just quiet aboutit, and a lot of women and men

(37:22):
try to make it look otherwise.
So they are accepted by society.
It makes them feel safer to actlike the man's in charge.
Now, I know a lot of householdsthe men are in charge.
I get it, but I've just seentoo much and heard too much to
know that there are an awful lotof women out there leading and
making it look like the man'sleading the household.

(37:43):
I think anyone, whoever thebest leader, should be it.
So I don't have any bias eitherway with that, but I just think
that people shouldn't bejudging any gender at all for
being either type of partner.
A lot of people can shamedominance.
I've seen family members shamedominant partners, and some of

(38:07):
them because they're women.

So that's just very unfortunate.

And that's why you have to work really hard not
to let some of the outsideinfluences affect your
relationship and make sure thatyou're really holding close the
good influences for you.
So but I wrote this book tohelp people understand.
I wrote this book to help otherpeople explain to their loved
ones.
You can sit down with yourfriend and say, hey, I actually

(38:31):
chose this because this is thekind of partner I am, this is
who I am and I chose them.
And a lot of times thesubmissive partner does the
pursuing.

I chose them.
Yeah for sure.

Right.
So I chose them.
They didn't force it, I chosethem and I chose this and I'm
happy with it.
And I'd like you to respectthat.
Even if you don't fullyunderstand it, even if you don't
accept it with open arms, I'dlike you to respect it and guess
what?
I'll do the same for you, foryour relationship.

Right.
I think that the problem isthere's a lot of stigma that
come with each role, right.
People see dominance as thisone kind of personality and subs
as this other, as opposed toseeing the beauty in both roles,
the strengths and weaknesses inboth roles.
And they're two people thatfind each other and, like you

(39:26):
know, they fit like a littlepuzzle piece or little Lego,
right.
It's like the things that youneed, I've got, the things I
need, you've gotten.
We click together in it's andboth roles are powerful and
important and vital to healthyrelationship, right, and
certainly either role can beabused, correct?

(39:47):
I think that you also talkabout that a bit as well.

Yes, and I've seen a lot of, an awful lot of
that as well.
But yeah, when they fit likethat, it's beautiful and I wish
people wouldn't judge it.
I wanted more people tounderstand the dynamic and I
want people to understand it'smore mainstream than you think.
I talk about celebrities thatare dominant in the subpartners.

(40:13):
I have a bunch of vanillaclients who are dominant in the
subpartners, even to the pointof some of them are almost like
master's slave relationships orown and own relationship, and
they don't even think that way.
But that's how they're doing it, similar to what people do when
they're in those lifestyles.
It's crazy that people would besitting in judgment of that and

(40:35):
people would be looking at it,saying okay it's bad because
it's not what I'm doing, or.
But a lot of people look at itand say, wow, I wish I had that.
So I'm kind of pissed that theyhave it and we really can't do
much about that except distanceourselves from those kinds of
people.
But there is, I think they're,and I appreciate what you're
doing here, because I thinkthere is definitely some

(40:55):
dialogue to be had on this topicto help bring people more into
understanding, because if you'renot a DS partner, you have
people in your life that youlove who are yeah, all right,
let's talk about the sex youmentioned earlier.

We're at that point in the podcast and,
unusually, like this wholepodcast, sometimes can just be
sex, sex, sex.
But now we're getting to thesex part, because I really think
this is the primer, for youknow, the icing on the cake.
So you mentioned that.
Well, first of all, let's makeit clear not all Dom sub

(41:34):
relationship orientations right,that's what we're calling it
turn into kinky Dom subs stuffin the bedroom.
Not all of it, true, that istrue.
Do they more often than not dothat in the bedroom?
Do you know?
Did you get any stats on that?

out of curiosity, I've heard a lot.
Like I said, there are an awfullot of vanilla people who are
very happy.
Dom and Simpsons partners inrelationships or outside
relationships.
They just are not interested inanything going to those levels
at all.

Whatever, of course, I know, yeah, I know
right All right whatever.
Blame.
Well, that's fine.

Of course, I know that there are a ton of people
who are kinky and are into thiskind of like awesome and these
intense experiences with theirpartner right that some people
will never, unfortunately,experience.
There are many, many, many ofthem who are.
Ds partners.
Absolutely, and so and thedynamic is interesting because

(42:35):
yes, the dominant is still incontrol, but it doesn't mean
that the submissive partnercan't be more sexually
aggressive.

Right.
So when you got to the sexportion, I did not skip forward.
I was very proud of myself.
I waited to get there of thebook.
There were some kind ofinteresting things that you
shared, and one of them was thatsometimes it's the sub that's
like, hey, let's do it.

(43:08):
And so you did say at thebeginning that you felt like
this dynamic could like addextra spice to the kink
relationship.
Do you wanna share?

Oh, of course I can, because you take these
beautiful dynamics between thesetwo people, where they have
this amazing connection rightand the relationship thrives the
more that they honor thestructure of the relationship.

And even if they honor the changes they make
to it that are exciting.

Can you take that to?
An intimate side, you take thatto the bedroom.
There are all kinds of thingsyou can do, even if one partner,
even if the submissive partner,is the more creative one,
because they can talk to theirdominant partner about what they
maybe would like to try, or hey, have you ever thought of it?
That happens so much.

(43:57):
Sometimes the submissivepartner is more creative.

Sometimes the dominant partner is either way.

But they're able to have this communication
because they have a safety rightand security and then they take
that in through this amazingsexual life and intensity and
it's great because nobody isreally nobody's really
threatened.
They're not really threatenedbecause they both know who they
are to each other and the rolesthey play right, and so they

(44:22):
come from that place and itdoesn't really change much.

Do they tend to keep the role that they're in
in the relationship through tosex or does it sometimes switch
and, like the Dom, plays a subrole for a little bit in bed?

Well, as far as kink is concerned, it just
depends what someone's kink is.
Right, you've got to havedominance, saying hey, I always
wanted a submissive to try thison me, or whatever right.
I believe that for the mostpart in the kinky life of
dominant submissive partnersthat the dominant remains in
control and that they're makingthe decisions anyway, even if

(45:01):
they're on the bottom.
And yes, I mean, let's get intoit.
And it's like I didn't writeabout these details and all of
these things in the book aboutsex.
I did mention it but I reallydidn't go into detail about it
on purpose because I wanted thebook to be specifically or
mostly about the relationshipitself and the foundation of the

(45:22):
relationship.
But you can have the most wild,freaky submissive, that's
completely all over the dominantlike aggressively and have like
a good old time for both.
But again there's still thesubmissive partner and the other
one's still the dominant andnobody feels like that has

(45:42):
changed.
It's just the sexual energythey're using.
As far as topping and bottoming, I don't really hear about many
dominant partners who want tobottom or about many submissive
partners who want to top.
You know, unless there'switches, but that's not on any
decided spectrum.

(46:04):
So I think that you know, ifthat's the case that there's
some of them that don't want todo that, great, but I don't hear
about it very much.
I think they kind of stay.
I think the dominance are oftenthe tops from what I've been
talking with people about it andthe submissive like to be the
bottom.
It doesn't mean that again thatthe dominant can't receive

(46:26):
sexually and submissive can't begiving sexually.

I mean, that's just submissive partners.

I mean, come on, they're not shy and they're not
weak.
So, and the thing aboutsubmissive partners they know
what they want and they go afterit.

Yeah, I think that's surprising.
I think a lot of people thinkof submissives as being like shy
and weak and like and that'seven how they're portrayed a lot
in, you know, in media.

True.

And I don't yeah, I don't see that a lot
with people that.
I know that want that role.
So I just think that whateverpeople are gonna do in their
relationship.

Whatever's gonna work for them, they're gonna do
it.
If the dominates the dominant,they're gonna remain the
dominant.
If the submissive thesubmissive, they're gonna remain
the submissive.
And that's what they're bothgonna want and they're each
gonna want, and they can many ofthem.
I've heard many stories.
They get, they have a good oldfreaky time and they do it their
way and we love that, wecelebrate that.

Yeah, for sure.
Now, I guess the way to sumthis up is, for listeners and
myself, what is a good way tostart telling what you are
yourself, and maybe when you'reeyeing someone else like, hey,
what?

might they be you and I could probably do yeah,
we could probably do a wholehour on bedding.
I mean, wow, there's so much tosay, there's so much that goes
wrong.
It's crazy.
The biggest problem forsubmissive partners is they see
someone who they think isconfident and knows what they

(47:56):
want and they, because of theirrelationship orientation, they
unconsciously and oftenconsciously feel that this is a
dominant.
This is for me, even if theydon't identify as submissive
partner, which I've seen that alot too.

Because they don't even know about it.
But, I've seen this and thenlater on it ends up.

The person is just selfish and domineering.
They seem confident, know whatthey want, know they'd be great
leader, know they were selfishand domineering, and the
submissive partner ends up beingthe parent or getting into the
leadership position.
It's horrible and I've seenfamilies that are hurt by this,
that are just devastated,shattered from it.
I've seen people that gothrough this for 10, 20, 30

(48:39):
years not having realized whatthe problem is.
So vetting is very, veryimportant.
Just because you're attractedto someone doesn't mean that
they know how to be a leader inthe relationship or they even
want to be.
Then you have the submissivesthat get attracted to someone if
they think you're a leader andthat person ends up being.
This is a surprise, this is alittle curve.
They end up being a submissivepartner.

(49:02):
They're trying to please theirpartner and trying to act like
the leader and they don't do thegreatest job because it doesn't
come naturally and it doesn'tmake them happy.

It's a submissive faking being dominant
.
Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, because the othersubmissive chose them to.

Yeah, the other submissive the submissive
partner's like oh, you're gonnabe and I'm gonna hold you to all
these things.
I had a client that literallytold me, after 15 years of
marriage I think it was 15 ormore my husband told me yeah, I
never wanted to do that, yeah.

I was like oh man, so vetting, vetting.

You've got to have the conversations.
You can't just guess.
And another important thingabout vetting is that if you're
a submissive partner and you'relooking for a dominant partner
and you have somebody that youare talking to or messaging,
don't message.
Don't message like you're in arelationship, just don't do that
.
There's so many reasons.
We can talk on that forever too.

(50:00):
But if you're talking ormessaging and the other person's
telling you hey, send me thesekind of pictures, call me this,
call me this title, do this forme when we meet, you're gonna do
this and this, and that they'reeither a predator or they're
highly uneducated and not aleader in the relationship.
Because what real dominates dofor the most part, a dominant

(50:22):
will be asking questions andsitting back and listening for
the answers and seeing if thisis really a fit for them as a
commitment that they need tostep into as the leader.
It's a commitment, so they'rekind of seeing if that's a fit.
If the people are alreadytelling you what to do ahead of
time, that's not being a leaderin the relationship.

(50:45):
They don't have a right to that.
They shouldn't be doing that.
So they're not your dominantuntil there's a commitment, you
know, or commitment meaning ifyou've decided that you're gonna
be exclusive or any of thatkind of thing.
But there needs to be somereally rigorous vetting for that
.
And I do teach vetting and I dohave a course on DS
relationships and vetting.
But yeah, that's superimportant to do your vetting and

(51:08):
not just assume that they are.
You have to have theconversations about it.

And how do you know?
Let's say you know someone'sthinking to themselves well, I
think I'm a sub and I think Iwanna find.
How do you know what you are?
Are there any tips?
I know that it's a whole topic.
I'm asking you to you know, ina very limited time, tell me a

(51:33):
lot, but at least for listeners,a couple tips tonight, as
they're sitting at homedigesting this and they're like
I think this is what I am.
How can you start to likesolidify, whether you are not
either a Dom or a sub?

Right.
I think people get confusedabout that because they say well
, I make decisions in my job andI lead and I have a strong
personality, so I may bedominant.
So, first of all, keep the restof your life and your
relationship apart.
Okay, separate those two.
Then look at what you've beenattracted to, or who you've been
attracted to.
Has it been someone who's afollower or a leader, or seems

(52:07):
that they would be a follower,leader to you?
What has excited you?
Someone who's submissive ordominant?
Now, if you're a submissivepartner, what's excited you?
People you've looked up to,have been attracted to, have
been people that you would liketo be a leader.
You'd like to have them as aleader and that's a reason that
you're attracted to them.
But there's also another way.

(52:29):
I have the profile points in mybook and you can review those
and see if most of those arepoints that you would relate to
but,not necessarily in relationships
you've had In really what youwant and who you feel you are,
because some people have been inrelationships that weren't
right for them.
So don't do it according toyour life and your relationships

(52:50):
, like your job and yourrelationships.
Look at the profile pointsaccording to really who you are
and what you want and how youreally naturally are.
There's that, and then also Ihave a little hack.
It's kind of fun, it's what Iwill ask someone who may.
I'm thinking maybe it's been aDS partner and I've done this

(53:10):
with clients and I said okaywell imagine that someone that
you're dating or somebody you're

serious with your partner, or whatever calls
you up and says look I want youto be ready by six o'clock.

Get all dressed up, ready to go.
We're going out.
We're gonna have a great time.
I'll take care of everything.
We're gonna have a blast, okay.
Normally when I say this, themissive partners.
Their faces light up andthey're like oh, and they like
it.
They like they've got like avisceral response to it Like oh,
that sounds so good.

I would love that A lot of dominant partners
like hmm, I don't know what doyou mean Give me some details?

And I've seen that and it's you know there's
exceptions to the rule, but ingeneral I've seen submissive
partner spaces light up over andover and over because yes,
that's now dominant partners.
No, they don't necessarily wantthat, so that's a little hack.
But the profile points help aswell.
But really separate yourrelationship how you want to be

(54:13):
in a relationship and who youwant to be in the relationship
apart from your life and see howthat feels to you.
Does it feel submissive ordominant?

I like that.
That's a good hack.
That's a good hack.

I use that for so many years with my clients.

I think that it surprises people like I.
Actually, I love it when I goout to dinner and someone will
pick food out for me.
I mean, I can also eat almostanything.
So I'm like, take me on anadventure, man, Just pick, cause
I will sit there for hourscause I love food so much and
try and figure out what I want.

(54:51):
And if someone's just like thisand this, I'm like heaven.

That and I have heard that 50,000 times from
submissive partners.
They're like I love that.
I thought they, I want, yes, Iwant you to choose.
For me, it means so much thatthey don't have to worry about
making those bullshit decisions.

They don't want to, they don't want to be
bothered.

Well, a dominant partner loves and loves that.
They're like, yeah, that I'mgoing to decide.
It's kind of it's service andit's exciting that way.
But dominant partner, pointingout what you want them to eat,
not so much.

Right.
Isn't that funny.
If you spin it and look at itthat way, that's actually the
dominant partner doing work,like doing work for you.
They're picking stuff.
You're just kicking back andrelaxing and not working.
Someone else is doing that shitfor you.
Yes, I don't know.
Thank you for bringing that up.
That's how it feels.
Thank you for bringing that up.

Yes, because in a lot of submissive partners are
very responsible, independentpeople and they do all those
things.
And then they want a place andsomeone they don't have to do
those things with.
It.
They can trust we'll do thatfor them.
Now, the dominant partners.
Every single time your dominantpartner makes these decisions,
they are pretty much doingresearch or thinking about it,
asking you questions,determining, putting energy into

(56:04):
it and time into it to makethose decisions.
Please appreciate that.
Submissive partners, please letthem know how much that's
appreciated, because that'senergy and in time, they're
investing in you and they'regoing to make you happy.
So, yeah, I love how bothpartners just come together with
that one does it and shows upand they then want to appreciate

(56:25):
it and it's a beautiful thing.

I love that, it's a beautiful dynamic, yeah,
and I feel like just kind ofwhat we've gone over.
If you are questioning, you'rekind of like I think I'm
submissive or I think I'mdominant, and you put yourself
in those situations, you canstart to really get an idea of
who you might be.
But go to the book and I willhave links for y'all in the

(56:50):
description of this podcast.
I'll be sending them out mynewsletter so that you can
purchase the book.
I think it's well worthwhile.
I have read it.
I again.
It sort of set me back in mychair Like the minute.
I started really quick too inreading it.
I was like, oh so it's wellworth the while to get it if you

(57:16):
are trying to figure out whoyou want to be in relationships,
what kind of relationshiporientation you want to have,
and then you know, obviously, ifyou've been thinking about it
in the sack.
So can you tell my listenerswhere they can find all the
information they might want orneed about you and what you're

(57:37):
doing?

Sure, they can go to coachlioncom, which is
L-Y-O-N coachlioncom, and ifyou'd like to get the book, it
is on Amazon, it's on iTunes andit's on Audible.
You're right, and they can findany of that out.
I am a kink-a-wear professional, so they can go to that
directory as well.
Cap directory and.

(57:58):
I do facilitation with couples.
I work with people on comingout of relationships, healing
and rallying again and gettingready to do their healing,
getting ready for another one.
I like to work with people onall levels of their relationship
.
So yeah, coachlioncom will giveyou the resources for a lot of

(58:18):
that.

And they can find you on social media too.
Right, Because I found you onsocial media.

They can.
I'm all over the place, yeah.

I found you on Instagram and again, I will
have links for you all so youcan get there, and you've posted
lots of great tidbits to givepeople a taste of what you're
doing, and so check her out.
I'm really excited about it.
I think it's going to help youall out a lot, and you guys know
where to find me.

(58:47):
You can find me on Facebook andInstagram.
Locker Room Talk and Shots.
She explores life and you'rewelcome to join me on my
personal Instagram, beingBenedetti.
I'm on TikTok Locker Room Talkpodcast and you can watch this
on YouTube and at Benedetti.
So that's that.
Thank you for joining me,thanks.

Anand, it's been a lot.

Yes, it's been fantastic, and until next
time I'll see y'all in thelocker room.
Cheers, ha, ha ha.

Flame.

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