August 9, 2023 • 58 mins
Have you ever freaked your partner out when sharing your sexual desires? Do you find yourself hiding your fantasies from lovers because you feel ashamed or worried they'll think you are strange? In this Locker Room Talk & Shots Podcast Episode we're changing that narrative, breaking down barriers, and encouraging open, shame-free conversation about sexual desires and boundaries. By the end of this episode, you'll have a path to shame-free sex.
Locker Room Talk & Shots Podcast host Annette Benedetti talk with CJ, an experienced ex-positive coach and mentor who has dedicated herself to the process of stripping shame from sex! CJ shares her wisdom on how to navigate both personal and societal sexual shame. From her own journey to the stories she's heard from her clients, she provides illuminating insights into how shame manifests in our lives. She guides us through the patriarchal influences that fuel the culture of shame, and how this impacts everyone, regardless of gender, orientation, or relationship style.
You can find out more about CJ at https://www.noshamewithcj.com/
Use code EXPLORES15 for 15% off all Womanizer Products at Womanizer.com.
Get 30% Off Sex Toys & Lube with code EXPLORES30
at thethruster.com: https://bit.ly/3Xsj5wY
Get 15% Off The Life Saving, Erection Enhancing Tech Cockring By Firmtech with my code ANNETTE15 at: https://myfirmtech.com/annettebenedetti
Get 15% Off The Life Saving, Erection Enhancing Tech Cockring By Firmtech with my code ANNETTE15 at: https://myfirmtech.com/annettebenedetti
Get your intimacy questions answered, enjoy erotic audio readings and more.
https://talksexwithannette.com/talk-sex-with-me/
Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@annettebenedetti
Connect with us
We are on all the socials:
- TikTok: @ LockerRoomTalkPodcast
- LRT's Insta: @Lockerroomtalkandshots
- Annette's Insta: @BeingBenedetti
- SEL Inst: @SheExplores_Life
- LRT's FB: @LockerRoomTalkandShots
- SEL FB: @ SheExploresLife
- Annette's YouTube: Annette Benedetti
Check Out More Sexy Content:
She Explores Life Website: sheexploreslife.com
Cheers!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Annette Benedetti (00:03):
Hi, this is Annette Benedetti, your hostess
for a locker room talk and shots, the podcast that likes to
think of itself as the queer NPRof raunchy women's sex talk.
You are about to sit in on thekind of conversations women have
on their girls' nights out orbehind closed doors, while
enjoying delicious drinks anddishing about sex.
(00:24):
Think, fun, honest and feministas fuck, and always with the
goal of fighting the patriarchyone female orgasm at a time.
Welcome to the locker room.
Today's locker room talk andshots topic is the key to
(00:49):
overcoming sexual shame.
If this podcast had a missionother than, or along with,
fighting the patriarchy oneorgasm at a time it's definitely
been to shed the shame aroundall kinds of sex vanilla sex I
know you guys know I work hardnot to shame people about being
(01:13):
into vanilla sex.
I think it's perfectly fine.
Also, all the shame arounddesires and kinks and fantasies
that stray from the vanillaheteronormative scheme of things
.
And it's a hard task.
It's a never ending journey.
(01:33):
For most of us it's hard tostrip shame from something that
we've been taught from day oneis wrong and bad if you enjoy it
too much or if you do it acertain way or not another way.
So I haven't actually addressedspecifically how to do that
because I don't have thoseanswers.
(01:55):
Fortunately, I have someone whohas some answers for us today.
My guest is CJ from no Shamewith CJ.
She is a sex positive coach andmentor who facilitates movement
away from shame and intoauthentic expression and
acceptance.
She brings 10 years of personaland professional experience in
(02:19):
non-monogamy and kinked thetable and, fun fact, she is a
trained professional cutler andgroup cuddle facilitator.
And that is for another podcast, because I know the minute I
said that you all had somequestions going through your
head, but that's not our topictoday.
Cj, will you just take a momentto say hello to my listeners
(02:43):
and tell them a little bit moreabout you?
CJ (02:46):
Hey, thanks for having me in the locker room.
It's so good to be here.
So, yeah, I am a sex positivecoach and mentor and I love
working with people whobasically have secret lives and
(03:06):
they're afraid to share themwith others, and maybe they've
been shamed in the past withtheir partner or just from
society, religion, family,whatever it is.
I am here to help bring yourshame out into the light and
(03:29):
make it disappear.
Annette Benedetti (03:32):
I feel like we can all get on board with
that, right?
I mean, if you're here, I'mgoing to assume you can get on
board with that.
So I'm excited to get into thisconversation and really dig into
not only what people feel shamearound, but how we can start to
strip our own lives of sexualshame.
(03:52):
The minute we're done with thispodcast a listener, please
listen all the way to the end wewill give you those wonderful
take takeaways that you're soused to in this podcast, so that
when you go home tonight andyou get horny and have thoughts
or want to do something withyour partner, you have some
(04:12):
tools to start working onfeeling less shame around your
desires.
So let's raise our glasses andget ready to talk about
shameless sex.
Cheers, cheers, all right, Iwant to dive right into it,
because I think people thinkthat because I do this podcast,
(04:34):
I'm, like you know, all donewith the shame aspects of sex,
and that is absolutely not true.
It is a never ending journey.
But what I want to start withis really your journey to
becoming a coach who focuses onhelping your clients rid
(04:56):
themselves or cure themselves Idon't even know what we'd call
it of sexual shame.
CJ (05:01):
I guess it all begins with my own personal journey and, in
particular, after my divorce andgoing out into the world after
that and starting to date again,through many like ups and downs
and that experience realizinghow much was holding me back.
(05:26):
There were a lot of painfulmoments in that experience, but
I kept moving forward and keptputting myself out there and
exploring, started exploringkink and non monogamy and was
trying to figure out what workedfor me and what what it meant
(05:49):
for me in the long run.
And, of course, I'm stillfiguring a lot of those things
out.
It's not a destination.
So, yeah, I feel like itstarted with me and then, more
recently, it really became clearto me that through personal
(06:11):
interactions and also some of myother work as a phone sex
partner, that the patriarchyhurts everybody, not just women,
not just, you know, the queercommunity.
It hurts everybody, it hurtsstraight, it hurts this guys,
(06:33):
and my experience has been thata lot of people are afraid to
share their desires and they goto other outlets like phone sex
or sex workers, and I have nojudgment about that.
I think that's fantastic and Ialso think that we can do better
(06:57):
creating an environment wherepeople stand up for themselves
and don't allow others to shamethem for what they are or what
they are excited by orinterested in.
And a lot of that work issomething that needs to happen
(07:22):
up front, and it's on the personwith the thing to say I'm not
up for your opinion about this.
So, yeah, that's, that's what'sbrought me to this work.
I want to bring things out intothe open and out of the shadows
, if that's what someone desiresto do, and let them know,
(07:45):
basically, that they're notalone.
No matter what it is.
It can be a kink, a fetish, arelationship style, an
orientation, a gender identity,and it can also be something
related to, like an STIdiagnosis.
So many people have, you know,an STI that doesn't go away,
(08:05):
like herpes or HIV, and theamount of shame around that and
the stigma is still very intenseand it's something that's the
butt of jokes and it's okay.
It's like fat shaming, likeit's okay.
We're, you know, still allowedto do these things, and there's
a lot of people walking aroundwith STI diagnoses and they're
(08:30):
afraid to talk about it.
But I'm hopeful because I dosee a lot of young people having
these conversations and outingthemselves and I think it's
fantastic.
So I think I know we can dobetter for everybody.
It's just a human thing thathappens, and I want people to
know that they're not alone.
Annette Benedetti (08:51):
It sounds like as you were doing your work
as a phone sex worker, youheard a lot of shame coming from
your customers.
Your eyes were open to theamount and the prevalence of
shame out there, and was that inpeople of all genders, or
primarily men, primarily men?
(09:12):
And so this was your motivationto go in the direction of
learning how to coach peopleaway from shame or out of shame
and into a more healthy,fulfilling life.
Is that correct?
CJ (09:25):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a .
It's a lot of intertwinedthings that are occurring and
even getting back to the STI's,if the goal is for honesty and
for communication, as a receiverof information we have a
responsibility to hearinformation and not respond in a
(09:49):
shaming or judgmental manner.
If your goal, let's say, let'stake COVID, for instance, if
someone admits that they likeearly on, remember like the
angst of like oh my God, like Idon't want to tell people I have
COVID, and like it's kind ofsimilar to an STI, right, like
(10:12):
you have to admit that you havea positive test and there can be
a lot of judgment.
Well, like, how did you get it?
What did you do?
Were you out in public?
Weren't you wearing a mat?
You know there's a lot of thatkind of thing and when we do
those things we can shut peopledown without realizing it.
(10:37):
They're not going to share keypieces of information with us
because we've made them feellike they've done something
wrong or that they are wrong,right.
And the same thing with oursexual identities and
preferences and desires.
(11:00):
If we share those with somebody, in particular an intimate
partner, a spouse, and they havesort of a negative reaction or
they're repelled by it.
We're probably not going to besharing it with them in the
future and we might be goingelsewhere for fulfillment of
(11:27):
that desire, and I don't thinkthat that's.
The goal for anybody in arelationship is to have secrecy.
Annette Benedetti (11:36):
And so it sounds like you're talking a
little bit about.
Where the problem comes in isboth with the person, who has to
be comfortable being honest,and then the receiver, who has
to learn how to receiveinformation without letting
their own program shame pop inright and to freak out and then
scare the other person.
Then you've just got a nastycycle going on, what I'm a good
(12:00):
starting point for thisconversation.
Let's start with men.
What are the common things thatthey come to you with that they
need to work on around sexualshame?
Like, how is sexual shameshowing up in their lives in
such a way that they're comingto you with it?
Are there common themes?
CJ (12:20):
There are common desires that I've worked with.
The things that excite a lot ofmen that I work with are a
desire to be submissive, toserve women, to not be in charge
, to be told what to do, to wearwomen's clothing, to be
(12:43):
feminized.
Also, forced bisexuality issomething very common and it's a
lot of it centers around that.
I think a lot of it has to dowith gender expectations, roles
and identities, and I don'tnecessarily know what their
(13:06):
lives are like in terms of whatthey do for work or their
relationships, but I sense thatthere's probably a lot of hiding
and in the shadows and fear ofouting themselves.
Annette Benedetti (13:25):
And when it comes to women, what are some of
the themes that you're seeing,and I want to kind of contrast
the two out of curiosity.
What do women come to you withwhen they ask for your help?
Coaching, sexual shame.
CJ (13:42):
Yeah, I think that often they're the flip side of the
men's experience, where there isan expectation that women put
on their men in terms of themneeding to fulfill a certain
role.
There is a lot of worry aroundbeing sexual enough or too
(14:07):
sexual for women.
I would have to say that one ofthe main themes for women is
around voicing their needs anddesires and also having
boundaries.
Annette Benedetti (14:22):
And just struggling with feeling ashamed
to voice those desires.
CJ (14:29):
I think, yeah, there's definitely potential judgment,
like I experienced in dating.
I was told once by somebodythat men like it when you act
like you don't want it.
It took me a minute to evenunderstand what that meant and I
was like, oh, I'm too desirous,and you are sort of saying that
(14:54):
all men have this attitudetowards women who are too
desirous.
And I had the wherewithal inthat moment or a little bit
later and I said, no, actuallythat's not the case.
I've never found that to be thecase and it's okay for you to
have that, but talk aboutyourself.
But it was definitely a shamingthing and that was like, okay,
(15:19):
we're not in the same place.
So I do think that women havethat Madonna whore issue that
still is around.
It's like we want her to bepure and innocent and not really
sexual, but at the same time,we want her to be the opposite
of that.
Annette Benedetti (15:39):
So Right, right Now, you also coach people
who are trans and, I assume,non-binary, and we've been
speaking of the binary so far.
Do you find that there issomething very specific with
people who now fall within thatby gender spectrum that they're
(16:03):
coming to you for assistancewith?
When it comes to shame?
Not necessarily.
CJ (16:08):
I think overall, no matter what gender identity someone has
, the common themes are societyor family or religion has put
shame on us.
We have a very schizophrenicrelationship with sex in this
(16:29):
country.
It's like you need to be sexyand desirable and all of these
things, but when you actuallyare those things and you embody
sensuality and sexuality,there's a lot of judgment that
comes along with that, and Ithink that's just across the
(16:51):
board, no matter who you are.
Annette Benedetti (16:55):
Yeah, it's interesting because it sounds
like from what you're sayingthere may be different desires
that are more common withdifferent genders, but the
underlying shame and problem isthe same it's the inability to
vocalize whatever it is you want, whatever it is you want or
(17:15):
feel, generally speakingoutwardly to the public, but
even more problematically withyour partner.
Right, yes, and I wonder inyour experience how common this
is.
I know in my younger life whenI would have a partner who would
(17:37):
come to me and wanna try likeI'm thinking when I was.
I mean, it's been a long time,but when I was younger and the
first time my partner I had apartner, be like oh, I wanna
have butt sex with you Now.
I definitely wanted to try it,but I was afraid because the way
they would approach me is likeso I don't know.
(17:57):
I heard so-and-so talking aboutthis weird thing like anal sex
and like and what do you thinkof that?
And then I'd be like oh, that'scrazy.
Right, I would have a negativereaction, mostly because I was
feeling out where they were atand I was afraid if I said, oh,
yeah, let's try that, then itwould be like even worse,
(18:19):
because I'm a woman and I'mdefinitely not supposed to be
thinking about stuff like that.
And so there would become thischain reaction of, well, what do
you think and what do you think, and oh yeah, weird, gross.
Yeah, right, weird gross.
But, like I don't know, I'veheard it's good.
Well, you know what I mean,that cycle of like shame
(18:40):
circling each other so we canget to the point where we're
like, actually, let's just tryputting the tip in tonight,
right, like?
So how?
Where do we start?
You have a client come in.
I'd love for you to startwalking me through.
Where do we even start to undothis?
I mean conditioning andemotional like abuse that we've
(19:05):
received since from day one.
How do we even begin to startto strip the sexual shame away?
CJ (19:12):
Yeah, I mean this is you and I are probably and a lot of
your listeners are at a certainlevel of understanding and
acceptance of relationshipstyles and sexual desires, kinks
, whatever.
I think what's surprising me ishow basic a lot of the work is
(19:38):
around the discomfort ofexpressing oneself authentically
and even being in touch withwhat that means or what that is,
and not that it's thatimportant to identify a thing as
(20:00):
like it's.
That's exactly what I am,because it ships right.
You know, sexuality is fluid.
Our expression of it, ourdesires, are fluid for most of
us not for everybody and justgetting comfortable with even
(20:20):
acknowledging that there aredifferent things there and I
think that that's really whereyou start and what my work is
primarily is a place to try outthose conversations right, to
(20:44):
let someone be there to listenand to receive the information
without a gasp or a judgment,and being able to hear it.
I think that's honestly thefirst step for a lot of people,
(21:06):
and I think one of the firststeps is to get the person in
touch with.
It's okay to start to have theconversation with somebody, but
not let it all out on the tableright away, because we have to
prep others, you know, if thisis something we've been living
(21:28):
with for a long time, or let'ssay it's even like a
relationship style, wanting toopen up a relationship.
You know, often one person willstart we'll get this idea right
and they'll start to read allthe books and listen to the
podcast and things like that,and then all of a sudden they
just like blurt it out to theirpartner when they've been doing
(21:50):
all the research and their wayover here and their partner is
still back here.
And that can be problematic,because you're sort of like
dumping a lot of stuff onsomebody that they're not
prepared for.
And I think when we're talkingabout shame and sharing a secret
or something that's been likepart of us for a while, that
(22:13):
we're nervous about, we kind ofhave to prep them for that too
and give them the opportunity toeven opt into the conversation
by saying there's something Iwant to talk about and it might
be difficult to hear like, orsomething you know let's, can we
pick a time to set aside likethis is all that we're going to
(22:38):
do for an hour and get it on theschedule kind of thing, and
also set boundaries around it,like I have an expectation that
you can hear this withoutexploding, freaking out, crying,
you know, judging all thethings like can we just have a
(23:00):
conversation without mainly thejudgment?
Of course, you can't controlsomeone's emotions, but I'm not
up for hearing you know yourjudgment or opinion around this.
It's something that I'm reallyscared to share with you and I
want to be vulnerable.
Annette Benedetti (23:20):
Right.
How do you get someone to pointwhere they're ready to even
share something they're ashamedof?
I mean, is there some amount ofinner work they need to do with
that shame first to even be ina place to share it?
CJ (23:34):
Yeah, I think everybody's different.
I think my coaching isn't aboutthe goal of, like, you have to
share things, okay, this is a anindividual decision, and what
my work primarily is is a placeto a safe place to talk about
(23:57):
things that you can't share withsomebody else and then
processing that and determininga path forward.
And the path forward might beI'm going to keep it where it is
and keep it to myself, and I'mgoing to support myself in this
way.
The main thing is that they'vehad an opportunity to have
(24:23):
someone listen to them withoutthe judgment, and then they can
make a more clear decision,because often people, I think,
have a big secret, you know, orthey're going outside of their
relationship for an experience,and a lot of it can be very much
like a pressure cooker of likeI need to do this thing, and
(24:47):
then they go do the thing andthen it's fine, but they might
be feeling guilty about it orsomething, and I think over time
that can build up and this islike a different way of
releasing some of that pressureand making decisions that aren't
they're not, you know, off thecuff decisions.
(25:09):
They're not under stress,they're not in a headspace.
That's like, just, I need toget my fix, or whatever it's
like more of a just, calmenvironment and being able to
talk about it and then makingmore rational decisions around.
What does that mean for me in mylife and in my relationships?
(25:30):
Do they need to know?
Do I continue this way?
You know, maybe you're not in arelationship but you want to be
in a relationship.
What if you have a particulartype of fetish that's key to
your sexuality and you'reembarrassed about it?
I can just about guarantee thatsomeone's into it.
(25:51):
You know, or like there's goingto be an outlet for you, and if
you can take that as like yourown knowledge about yourself in
that self work of like, I acceptthat this is my thing and it's
okay.
I don't have control over itper se.
(26:13):
Who like invite somebody in,right, then then that's an
opportunity to invite somebodyin instead of trying to push it
off to the side.
You know it can be anopportunity.
Annette Benedetti (26:27):
Right, because when you find people
that accept you in yourauthentic self, then that shame
lessons.
Or when you meet other peoplewho have the same interests that
you do and get the samepleasure out of the same thing,
and you see those people and youthink, wow, you're really cool
person who's doing amazingthings in your life.
(26:48):
Maybe I am too, and the factthat my desire is this taboo
thing because of our culturedoesn't lessen who I am as a
human being.
Right, right, that makes sense.
So you it sounds like you foundthat sexual shame causes people
(27:11):
to even stay away fromrelationships because they don't
know how to reveal the thingthat they really want with it,
with a partner.
And if you can't reveal thething you really want or you do,
and your partner rejects it orjudges you and tells you you're
a bad person because of it, thenyou might look to get that
(27:36):
taken care of outside of therelationship, secretly, so that
you can keep the person you loveeven though technically they're
saying they don't love you theway you are and continue the
relationship Absolutely.
CJ (27:48):
And I think that's the point is we may have an aversion to
something that someone shareswith us initially, and I'm
absolutely sure that I've shamedpeople in the past for a
request or for an interest orwhatever it was, and I hope that
(28:15):
you know it's not somethingthat's been lingering with them.
I don't I can't recall anythingspecific, but in I think, in
particular in monogamousrelationships, if you are not
open to hear your partner'sdesires and excitement about
(28:41):
something and be open about it,that in particular is going to
be problematic For sure.
So we think we have this fear.
Some people who are monogamoushave a fear of losing their
partner and have a fear aroundopening up or whatever it is, or
(29:02):
they they really enjoy beingpartnered with one person.
I think if that's your goal, itis probably going to be
beneficial to you to be veryopen minded about exploring
sexuality, sexual experiencestogether and really being open
(29:26):
to those conversations, ifthat's you know, if your partner
is bringing these things up.
Not everyone has, like, a highdesire for sexual experiences,
but if they do, the more openyou are and can meet them, I
(29:48):
think, the better chances ofyour monogamous relationship
style staying intact, you knowis going to be.
Annette Benedetti (29:57):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I think that monogamy does sortof create a situation where if
you are going, if you're goingto have someone commit to you
solely for life, then you needto be there to show up for their
, their needs sexually.
(30:17):
And you know, I will say and Isay it time and time again, no
one owes anyone else sex, everPeriod.
And I've definitely had manypoints of it.
I've had many experiences in mylife where I felt like people
felt I owed them sex or owedsomeone else sex or should have
(30:39):
had sex when I was like I don'twant to.
However, the other thing I haveseen a lot throughout my life
in monogamous relationships, andit tends to be.
This is a very genderedconversation, but in my
experience, what I find happensoften is at some point in a
(30:59):
relationship, the woman decidesshe really isn't into sex
anymore, and I believe 100% it'snot because she's not into sex,
it's just that she's neverexperienced truly pleasurable
sex for herself.
And so she's like I'm done ofdone, handing over my body to be
pounded on by this guy who'snot feeding my pleasure, right.
(31:20):
And so she's like I'm just notinto it anymore.
And then the guy is like I, youknow, I want sex, not only that
, I kind of wanted, like, dothese things.
But he doesn't feel like youcan come to her because she
doesn't even want to have sexwith him.
And now they're both heldhostage in a relationship where
(31:41):
nobody's needs are getting met.
Right, yeah, yeah.
And I believe at the heart ofthat whole situation is shame,
right.
It starts when a woman can'teven say to her partner you know
, I want to do these things, Ineed these things from you.
So they start out their sexlife with, just you know, him
pounding away at her.
(32:01):
And then he's over herethinking, I want to like.
Well, apparently he wants herto like, spank him and call her
mommy.
I don't know, but doesn't youknow, feel comfortable telling
her that and the walls are built, and, and it ends how we all
know it ends Right, yeah, yeah.
(32:23):
So, on that note, as we headinto the last part of this
podcast, I think there are twothings.
I want to make sure that weleave listeners with a on the
side of shame people workingwith their own shame.
I would love to leave them withjust some tips, things they can
implement in their life ontheir own now, starting tonight,
(32:45):
to start working on their shame.
Maybe it's how to identify itif they have it.
But then I think the second partof this needs to be as a
partner, as a receiver ofinformation, as someone who
wants to have healthyrelationships.
How do we make sure we aren'tthe ones causing shame to others
(33:07):
in our lives who we want tohave healthy relationships with?
So I want to start, obviously,like with the tips for all of us
in dealing with our own shame,because we all have it on one
level or the other, and then wewill move into now make sure
you're not the one shaming otherpeople, and here are some ways
(33:30):
you can make sure that you'renot the one perpetuating shame.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, all right.
Well, let's start with what doyou got?
What do you?
How can I, or anyone at mylevel or any level, just start
working tonight on on my ownshame?
CJ (33:50):
I think a great place to start is really thinking about
what you want.
What you want, not what youthink somebody else wants,
because often when we dosomething we're trying to like,
second guess what somebody elsedesires.
Like people pleasers inparticular, but even just a lot
(34:14):
of people just to keep the peace, are looking to the other
person for like an indication ofwhat's okay to want.
I think getting really deepinto yourself, maybe through
journaling or whatever it islike, however, those thoughts
come up for you, really takingthat on board.
(34:38):
What is it that you want?
What would make your lifeexperience really awesome?
Like, and if it's in terms ofsex, you know, what is it that's
missing?
Why do you feel?
You know that maybe you don'twant to have sex anymore?
What is it like?
(34:59):
What would make it morepleasurable?
Now for talking about an absenceof pain or something like that.
That's a difficult thing.
I'm not a therapist and I'm nota doctor, you know.
I think getting proper medicalattention is always key and
being very upfront withprofessionals about your needs
(35:20):
in that area is the way to go.
But really getting in touchwith yourself, like what are
your needs, what are yourdesires, and not having fear
around like what does it meanand where does it come from and
why.
It's not about the why it'sabout what it is and identifying
(35:42):
it without having a lot ofnegative talk or concern about
it, and sitting with that andmaybe identifying some if you
have asked for it in the pastand maybe what kind of reaction
you've gotten, identify possiblesources of shame and just
(36:05):
notice those right, notice wherethat comes from, but don't get
hung up on like the cycle of it.
I think that's a great place tostart.
Annette Benedetti (36:16):
So identifying the thing, because
there might be a couple.
I mean, I got a whole bunch ofthings, yeah, and that's great,
and what I'm hearing is likeidentifying them, especially the
ones I have trouble asking forand believe it or not, listeners
, I actually do still havetrouble asking for some things
(36:46):
and not.
And then you're saying, once Irecognize those things or
anybody else not getting hung upin the in the, the judgment
piece of like well, why do Iwant that?
What does that mean about me?
Where does it come from Exactly?
CJ (37:01):
Because we can often be our own worst enemy in this area too
.
Where it's like you wereself-judging, we have this like
oh, I shouldn't feel this way, Ishouldn't want that.
That's like I'm a feminist, soI can't want that, or, you know,
whatever it is.
I can think of a couple of kinksthat fall into that oh yeah,
(37:22):
Like that's so common and that'sthe other thing is like
recognizing that you're notalone.
You know, look for the places.
If you feel alone, look for theplaces where you're gonna find
that like you're not alone.
It's.
You know, there's lots ofFacebook groups out there and
all kinds of things and likeerotica sells and all you have
(37:49):
to do is be on like an eroticaFacebook page and realize that
you're not alone in things thatyou desire.
Right, it's true.
Annette Benedetti (37:57):
It's true, lots of feminists are, you know,
wearing collars, gettingspanked, have daddies, it's true
, and lots of other other stuff.
And so we do this, we identifythe things, we do the work to
(38:17):
not start questioning where doesit come from?
Like, I don't have daddy issues.
That's not why I want to callhim dad.
You know what I mean, like allthat stuff.
But that's, that's some realshit.
Go back and listen to mypodcast on mommy doms, daddy
doms.
CJ (38:35):
Yes, it's an excellent one.
I really enjoyed that.
I loved it.
Annette Benedetti (38:39):
We talk about that Are the outside of just
identifying it.
Are there any other additionalthings we can do just sitting
with ourselves to help make usfeel better about the shame we
have attached to those things?
CJ (38:53):
Yeah, yeah, I think, also not allowing ourselves to go
into the negative talk, but itdoesn't mean that you can't be
curious, right, curiosity is keyand also playfulness.
You know we do.
There's a lot of serious shitin our lives.
Why can't this be anopportunity for play?
(39:16):
Why can't we bring in some play?
And maybe the play means soloplay around yourself.
Maybe it is buying some eroticaor listening to erotica.
There's so many resources nowthat we can access and try it
(39:43):
out.
You know, explore that foryourself, because maybe it's
just sort of like I might beinto that and figuring that out
right, making it playful, makingit fun.
Annette Benedetti (39:59):
Right, and another piece you brought up is
finding groups, whether onsocial media or meetups with
other people who are in the samething, because when you see and
meet other people who are thesame as you, you see that you're
okay because they're okay.
So that would just be an easything to do to start, like,
(40:24):
dispelling some of the myths andshame around us.
So here's a question before wemove on to what we can do to
make sure we're not shamingothers.
If you are not in arelationship yet and you are
experiencing shame and concernaround a kink or a sexual
interest or anything having todo with sex, could it be
(40:47):
beneficial to see a sex workerto try out some of those things
before seeking out arelationship with someone else?
To do some exploratory workwith someone who is safe,
understands what they're therefor and I'm thinking BDSM is
(41:09):
most obvious.
There are domes you can hire tohelp you explore if you're
anybody interested in being asub, but any sex worker can help
you try out things that you'restruggling with and I am saying
again, this is prior to being ina relationship Well, I would
(41:29):
even say.
CJ (41:30):
It doesn't have to be couched like that either,
because even if you are in arelationship, you might need to
explore to a certain degree ifthis is worth, even like perhaps
upsetting the apple cart rightof the relationship.
Annette Benedetti (41:49):
Okay so, you think, if you're in a
relationship and something iscoming up, you're in a
commitment with somebody andthey just don't seem open to
talking about it all but youdon't want to go and like blow
the whole relationship that itmight be an option to go ahead
and hire a dom or something likethat to go outside of your
relationship and and considerexploring it.
CJ (42:12):
Well, there's different degrees of that right.
There's porn, there's erotica,there's phone sex, there's, you
know, ways that you can do thosethings without necessarily
physically interacting withanother person.
I'm not judging doing thateither.
I think you have to make thatdecision for yourself.
(42:33):
But, yes, I think that thoseare good tools, and sex workers
are often people who have seen alot of things and aren't, you
know, phased.
Annette Benedetti (42:44):
So that's a couple of things, and some sex
workers have skills specificallyin that area to help you figure
it out.
They are skilled folks, theyhelp you explore it.
CJ (42:55):
A lot of you know.
We have a lot of wonderful sextherapists and doctors who can
assist as well.
There are also a lot ofhorrible experiences that I've
heard of with judgment and, asmuch as you know, a therapist
might be trained.
They can also hold their ownsort of judgments about certain
(43:19):
things.
So be careful in that area.
But also, if you're in theplace of feeling very unstable
or very concerned or depressedabout your particular thing,
please seek help, because it canbe very scary and depressing
(43:40):
for some people and it isimportant to get the support
that you need.
Maybe exploration needs to beput to the side.
Well, it's wonderful advice.
Annette Benedetti (43:52):
So on the other end of this, let's talk
about our job as the informationreceiver our job to step up and
not perpetuate sexual shame andnot to accidentally sexually
shame other people.
I know I know lots of sexpositive people, including
myself.
I've had moments, even on thispodcast, where I've been like,
(44:16):
oh that's, that could be shamingof another person.
It's so ingrained into who weare.
So what are some tools we canstart using, like right now, to
do less of that?
CJ (44:30):
I think one main thing is to pause.
Pause before reacting and thisis across the spectrum of any
interaction with humans, ratherthan knee-jerk reactions or
stuff that we've been holding onto for a while to respond in
the typical way when we hear aparticular thing.
(44:51):
Take a pause, maybe take abreath and determine am I going
to hurt this person potentially,or make them feel shame?
Also, if you are not in a placeto receive information that you
(45:12):
think might be coming, you cansay I can't hear this right now.
You can have a boundary arounda conversation, right?
We don't need to heareveryone's stuff all the time.
Whenever they're ready,whenever they want to share it
with us, we can ask are youabout to share something that
(45:34):
potentially might be a largerconversation that our five
minutes don't allow for?
Something like that?
Just, I think having boundariesaround conversation is also
important.
And then the other thing isagain get curious.
Try to be open.
(45:54):
Try to be curious.
If you don't know what to say,if you're feeling a little bit
shocked or repulsed maybe it'slike you know can you tell me
what that looks like for you?
Because we also tell ourselvesstories about what something
means to somebody else and wemight have it completely wrong.
(46:20):
You know, let's ask what doesthat look like for you?
What does that mean?
What would you envision thatsort of thing Getting curious?
Annette Benedetti (46:32):
I think about how many topics might.
Initial reaction would havebeen an ick reaction.
But because I'm askingquestions, because that's what
I'm supposed to do here fory'all, I have to get curious.
I have to dig in and answer,asking questions about things
(46:53):
that I started out going ew, ew,my favorite example, is semen
facials.
And then the more I got curiousabout well, why do you like it?
Like?
What is it that you are into?
And then, even more importantly, why do I think it's icky?
Like why, when I don't think x,y and z is yucky, you know, and
(47:17):
being curious is such a funthing to do because it tears
down a lot of barriers thatyou've put up in your own mind,
that you didn't even know werethere, that are keeping you from
enjoying life and bonding withother people you know, yeah, and
(47:39):
even you know it might not besomething, ultimately, that
you're willing to do, it doesn't.
CJ (47:46):
Also, when someone shares something, it doesn't mean
you're obligated to participate.
They're sharing a part ofthemselves with you and just see
that as a gift, right?
Then the question can be likeare you expecting me to provide
this or to experiment with youand you can determine if that's
(48:12):
something that you're willing todo.
And if you do decide that, I'mwilling to try.
You know and it doesn't meanthat you're locked in you can
try something.
You can have a boundary aroundit.
I'm willing to try this forfive minutes and if I say read,
it stops before that.
(48:33):
You know, whatever it is.
So just being curious and beingopen, but also knowing that
it's you don't have anobligation to provide that for
somebody.
But maybe there's somethinglike well, I don't know if I'd
be into that, but I think Imight be okay with this part of
(48:54):
it, and maybe we can meet in themiddle somewhere or, you know,
give and take a little bit.
Annette Benedetti (49:01):
Yeah, wouldn't that be wonderful if we
learned how to do that, if welearned how to that it doesn't
have to be all or nothing andthat there are always solutions,
creative solutions.
You know, I think that issomething in our society.
We get into the black and whitea lot and we do our partners a
(49:23):
lot of harm.
Yes, when we, when we put ourrelationship into black or white
right or wrong, you know, it'sjust yes or no it could be like,
well, yes, but with all ofthese adjustments to how we're
doing it, you know, practice Imean negotiating this a practice
(49:44):
setting boundaries.
CJ (49:45):
It's a practice saying no, saying yes, what are you willing
to explore?
Like?
All of that is a constantpractice.
You know I'm still doing it.
Yeah, even though I've had alot of explorations, I'm still
learning and find that I getmyself into situations that, oh,
(50:08):
I wish I had said this or Iwish I had done that, or it's a
constant practice.
Annette Benedetti (50:13):
It is, and we're all doing the work.
So, listeners, I feel likeyou've got a lot to work with
tonight.
You're gonna get out yourlittle notebooks and, if you
have a partner, you're hidingsome stuff from.
You're gonna go and sit downand write down those things that
you are afraid to say to themand start exploring them in
(50:34):
whatever.
And if you don't have a partner, you can do this activity too,
because I'm pretty sure all ofus are horny little
motherfuckers who are afraid toreally dive into those things we
want to do.
I also want to super encouragewomen out there in particular
who have said to themselves I'mdone with sex, I don't really
(50:56):
want it anymore, I don't reallyneed it anymore To reconsider
that and start exploring yourpleasure and your fantasies.
Sexual pleasure and sex isvital to our health and our
(51:16):
longevity, especially post 40and 50 and 60.
Vaginal health, whole health,emotional health.
So if you think you've given up, start digging in, all right.
Well, so if you want to reachout to CJ and start working on
(51:38):
your own shamelessness journey,cj, I'd love for you to tell my
listeners where they can findout more about you and get in
touch with you if they want to.
CJ (51:48):
Yeah, so basically we're gonna be moving away from shame.
That's what we're doing.
We're kicking it to the curband setting it aside so we can
figure out how we canauthentically express ourselves
and who we are.
I am doing a lot of workcurrently on Instagram talking
(52:09):
about boundaries, getting towhat we want and finding our nos
, finding our yeses and also mywebsite is no shame with CJcom
On Instagram.
It's also no shame with CJ.
So follow me.
I'd love to interact with youon Instagram I don't care what
(52:32):
you have to say and book adiscovery call with me.
You know we can talk free,discovery call and figure out if
working with me is somethingthat makes sense for you.
Annette Benedetti (52:47):
Thank you for that.
You can also scroll down to thenotes in this podcast and the
description and you're gonnafind links to CJ's site.
You guys know where to find me.
I am Locker Room Talking Shotson Facebook and Instagram.
You can find my personalInstagram at BingBenedetti.
(53:08):
You can find me on TikTok atLocker Room Talk Podcast Also
head over to my website.
It is Locker Room TalkPodcastcom, and I think that about sums it
up.
Oh, you can watch this onYouTube.
Find me at a net Benadetti overthere, my long, long name.
(53:28):
Thank you all for listening.
Thank you for talking to us andhelping us in our journey on
losing our sexual shame, cj.
Until next time, listeners, Iwill see you in the Locker Room.
Cheers, cheers.
Hi, this is Annette Benedetti, your hostess
for a locker room talk and shots, the podcast that likes to
think of itself as the queer NPRof raunchy women's sex talk.
You are about to sit in on thekind of conversations women have
on their girls' nights out orbehind closed doors, while
enjoying delicious drinks anddishing about sex.
(00:24):
Think, fun, honest and feministas fuck, and always with the
goal of fighting the patriarchyone female orgasm at a time.
Welcome to the locker room.
Today's locker room talk andshots topic is the key to
(00:49):
overcoming sexual shame.
If this podcast had a missionother than, or along with,
fighting the patriarchy oneorgasm at a time it's definitely
been to shed the shame aroundall kinds of sex vanilla sex I
know you guys know I work hardnot to shame people about being
(01:13):
into vanilla sex.
I think it's perfectly fine.
Also, all the shame arounddesires and kinks and fantasies
that stray from the vanillaheteronormative scheme of things
.
And it's a hard task.
It's a never ending journey.
(01:33):
For most of us it's hard tostrip shame from something that
we've been taught from day oneis wrong and bad if you enjoy it
too much or if you do it acertain way or not another way.
So I haven't actually addressedspecifically how to do that
because I don't have thoseanswers.
(01:55):
Fortunately, I have someone whohas some answers for us today.
My guest is CJ from no Shamewith CJ.
She is a sex positive coach andmentor who facilitates movement
away from shame and intoauthentic expression and
acceptance.
She brings 10 years of personaland professional experience in
(02:19):
non-monogamy and kinked thetable and, fun fact, she is a
trained professional cutler andgroup cuddle facilitator.
And that is for another podcast, because I know the minute I
said that you all had somequestions going through your
head, but that's not our topictoday.
Cj, will you just take a momentto say hello to my listeners
(02:43):
and tell them a little bit moreabout you?
CJ (02:46):
Hey, thanks for having me in the locker room.
It's so good to be here.
So, yeah, I am a sex positivecoach and mentor and I love
working with people whobasically have secret lives and
(03:06):
they're afraid to share themwith others, and maybe they've
been shamed in the past withtheir partner or just from
society, religion, family,whatever it is.
I am here to help bring yourshame out into the light and
(03:29):
make it disappear.
Annette Benedetti (03:32):
I feel like we can all get on board with
that, right?
I mean, if you're here, I'mgoing to assume you can get on
board with that.
So I'm excited to get into thisconversation and really dig into
not only what people feel shamearound, but how we can start to
strip our own lives of sexualshame.
(03:52):
The minute we're done with thispodcast a listener, please
listen all the way to the end wewill give you those wonderful
take takeaways that you're soused to in this podcast, so that
when you go home tonight andyou get horny and have thoughts
or want to do something withyour partner, you have some
(04:12):
tools to start working onfeeling less shame around your
desires.
So let's raise our glasses andget ready to talk about
shameless sex.
Cheers, cheers, all right, Iwant to dive right into it,
because I think people thinkthat because I do this podcast,
(04:34):
I'm, like you know, all donewith the shame aspects of sex,
and that is absolutely not true.
It is a never ending journey.
But what I want to start withis really your journey to
becoming a coach who focuses onhelping your clients rid
(04:56):
themselves or cure themselves Idon't even know what we'd call
it of sexual shame.
CJ (05:01):
I guess it all begins with my own personal journey and, in
particular, after my divorce andgoing out into the world after
that and starting to date again,through many like ups and downs
and that experience realizinghow much was holding me back.
(05:26):
There were a lot of painfulmoments in that experience, but
I kept moving forward and keptputting myself out there and
exploring, started exploringkink and non monogamy and was
trying to figure out what workedfor me and what what it meant
(05:49):
for me in the long run.
And, of course, I'm stillfiguring a lot of those things
out.
It's not a destination.
So, yeah, I feel like itstarted with me and then, more
recently, it really became clearto me that through personal
(06:11):
interactions and also some of myother work as a phone sex
partner, that the patriarchyhurts everybody, not just women,
not just, you know, the queercommunity.
It hurts everybody, it hurtsstraight, it hurts this guys,
(06:33):
and my experience has been thata lot of people are afraid to
share their desires and they goto other outlets like phone sex
or sex workers, and I have nojudgment about that.
I think that's fantastic and Ialso think that we can do better
(06:57):
creating an environment wherepeople stand up for themselves
and don't allow others to shamethem for what they are or what
they are excited by orinterested in.
And a lot of that work issomething that needs to happen
(07:22):
up front, and it's on the personwith the thing to say I'm not
up for your opinion about this.
So, yeah, that's, that's what'sbrought me to this work.
I want to bring things out intothe open and out of the shadows
, if that's what someone desiresto do, and let them know,
(07:45):
basically, that they're notalone.
No matter what it is.
It can be a kink, a fetish, arelationship style, an
orientation, a gender identity,and it can also be something
related to, like an STIdiagnosis.
So many people have, you know,an STI that doesn't go away,
(08:05):
like herpes or HIV, and theamount of shame around that and
the stigma is still very intenseand it's something that's the
butt of jokes and it's okay.
It's like fat shaming, likeit's okay.
We're, you know, still allowedto do these things, and there's
a lot of people walking aroundwith STI diagnoses and they're
(08:30):
afraid to talk about it.
But I'm hopeful because I dosee a lot of young people having
these conversations and outingthemselves and I think it's
fantastic.
So I think I know we can dobetter for everybody.
It's just a human thing thathappens, and I want people to
know that they're not alone.
Annette Benedetti (08:51):
It sounds like as you were doing your work
as a phone sex worker, youheard a lot of shame coming from
your customers.
Your eyes were open to theamount and the prevalence of
shame out there, and was that inpeople of all genders, or
primarily men, primarily men?
(09:12):
And so this was your motivationto go in the direction of
learning how to coach peopleaway from shame or out of shame
and into a more healthy,fulfilling life.
Is that correct?
CJ (09:25):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a .
It's a lot of intertwinedthings that are occurring and
even getting back to the STI's,if the goal is for honesty and
for communication, as a receiverof information we have a
responsibility to hearinformation and not respond in a
(09:49):
shaming or judgmental manner.
If your goal, let's say, let'stake COVID, for instance, if
someone admits that they likeearly on, remember like the
angst of like oh my God, like Idon't want to tell people I have
COVID, and like it's kind ofsimilar to an STI, right, like
(10:12):
you have to admit that you havea positive test and there can be
a lot of judgment.
Well, like, how did you get it?
What did you do?
Were you out in public?
Weren't you wearing a mat?
You know there's a lot of thatkind of thing and when we do
those things we can shut peopledown without realizing it.
(10:37):
They're not going to share keypieces of information with us
because we've made them feellike they've done something
wrong or that they are wrong,right.
And the same thing with oursexual identities and
preferences and desires.
(11:00):
If we share those with somebody, in particular an intimate
partner, a spouse, and they havesort of a negative reaction or
they're repelled by it.
We're probably not going to besharing it with them in the
future and we might be goingelsewhere for fulfillment of
(11:27):
that desire, and I don't thinkthat that's.
The goal for anybody in arelationship is to have secrecy.
Annette Benedetti (11:36):
And so it sounds like you're talking a
little bit about.
Where the problem comes in isboth with the person, who has to
be comfortable being honest,and then the receiver, who has
to learn how to receiveinformation without letting
their own program shame pop inright and to freak out and then
scare the other person.
Then you've just got a nastycycle going on, what I'm a good
(12:00):
starting point for thisconversation.
Let's start with men.
What are the common things thatthey come to you with that they
need to work on around sexualshame?
Like, how is sexual shameshowing up in their lives in
such a way that they're comingto you with it?
Are there common themes?
CJ (12:20):
There are common desires that I've worked with.
The things that excite a lot ofmen that I work with are a
desire to be submissive, toserve women, to not be in charge
, to be told what to do, to wearwomen's clothing, to be
(12:43):
feminized.
Also, forced bisexuality issomething very common and it's a
lot of it centers around that.
I think a lot of it has to dowith gender expectations, roles
and identities, and I don'tnecessarily know what their
(13:06):
lives are like in terms of whatthey do for work or their
relationships, but I sense thatthere's probably a lot of hiding
and in the shadows and fear ofouting themselves.
Annette Benedetti (13:25):
And when it comes to women, what are some of
the themes that you're seeing,and I want to kind of contrast
the two out of curiosity.
What do women come to you withwhen they ask for your help?
Coaching, sexual shame.
CJ (13:42):
Yeah, I think that often they're the flip side of the
men's experience, where there isan expectation that women put
on their men in terms of themneeding to fulfill a certain
role.
There is a lot of worry aroundbeing sexual enough or too
(14:07):
sexual for women.
I would have to say that one ofthe main themes for women is
around voicing their needs anddesires and also having
boundaries.
Annette Benedetti (14:22):
And just struggling with feeling ashamed
to voice those desires.
CJ (14:29):
I think, yeah, there's definitely potential judgment,
like I experienced in dating.
I was told once by somebodythat men like it when you act
like you don't want it.
It took me a minute to evenunderstand what that meant and I
was like, oh, I'm too desirous,and you are sort of saying that
(14:54):
all men have this attitudetowards women who are too
desirous.
And I had the wherewithal inthat moment or a little bit
later and I said, no, actuallythat's not the case.
I've never found that to be thecase and it's okay for you to
have that, but talk aboutyourself.
But it was definitely a shamingthing and that was like, okay,
(15:19):
we're not in the same place.
So I do think that women havethat Madonna whore issue that
still is around.
It's like we want her to bepure and innocent and not really
sexual, but at the same time,we want her to be the opposite
of that.
Annette Benedetti (15:39):
So Right, right Now, you also coach people
who are trans and, I assume,non-binary, and we've been
speaking of the binary so far.
Do you find that there issomething very specific with
people who now fall within thatby gender spectrum that they're
(16:03):
coming to you for assistancewith?
When it comes to shame?
Not necessarily.
CJ (16:08):
I think overall, no matter what gender identity someone has
, the common themes are societyor family or religion has put
shame on us.
We have a very schizophrenicrelationship with sex in this
(16:29):
country.
It's like you need to be sexyand desirable and all of these
things, but when you actuallyare those things and you embody
sensuality and sexuality,there's a lot of judgment that
comes along with that, and Ithink that's just across the
(16:51):
board, no matter who you are.
Annette Benedetti (16:55):
Yeah, it's interesting because it sounds
like from what you're sayingthere may be different desires
that are more common withdifferent genders, but the
underlying shame and problem isthe same it's the inability to
vocalize whatever it is you want, whatever it is you want or
(17:15):
feel, generally speakingoutwardly to the public, but
even more problematically withyour partner.
Right, yes, and I wonder inyour experience how common this
is.
I know in my younger life whenI would have a partner who would
(17:37):
come to me and wanna try likeI'm thinking when I was.
I mean, it's been a long time,but when I was younger and the
first time my partner I had apartner, be like oh, I wanna
have butt sex with you Now.
I definitely wanted to try it,but I was afraid because the way
they would approach me is likeso I don't know.
(17:57):
I heard so-and-so talking aboutthis weird thing like anal sex
and like and what do you thinkof that?
And then I'd be like oh, that'scrazy.
Right, I would have a negativereaction, mostly because I was
feeling out where they were atand I was afraid if I said, oh,
yeah, let's try that, then itwould be like even worse,
(18:19):
because I'm a woman and I'mdefinitely not supposed to be
thinking about stuff like that.
And so there would become thischain reaction of, well, what do
you think and what do you think, and oh yeah, weird, gross.
Yeah, right, weird gross.
But, like I don't know, I'veheard it's good.
Well, you know what I mean,that cycle of like shame
(18:40):
circling each other so we canget to the point where we're
like, actually, let's just tryputting the tip in tonight,
right, like?
So how?
Where do we start?
You have a client come in.
I'd love for you to startwalking me through.
Where do we even start to undothis?
I mean conditioning andemotional like abuse that we've
(19:05):
received since from day one.
How do we even begin to startto strip the sexual shame away?
CJ (19:12):
Yeah, I mean this is you and I are probably and a lot of
your listeners are at a certainlevel of understanding and
acceptance of relationshipstyles and sexual desires, kinks
, whatever.
I think what's surprising me ishow basic a lot of the work is
(19:38):
around the discomfort ofexpressing oneself authentically
and even being in touch withwhat that means or what that is,
and not that it's thatimportant to identify a thing as
(20:00):
like it's.
That's exactly what I am,because it ships right.
You know, sexuality is fluid.
Our expression of it, ourdesires, are fluid for most of
us not for everybody and justgetting comfortable with even
(20:20):
acknowledging that there aredifferent things there and I
think that that's really whereyou start and what my work is
primarily is a place to try outthose conversations right, to
(20:44):
let someone be there to listenand to receive the information
without a gasp or a judgment,and being able to hear it.
I think that's honestly thefirst step for a lot of people,
(21:06):
and I think one of the firststeps is to get the person in
touch with.
It's okay to start to have theconversation with somebody, but
not let it all out on the tableright away, because we have to
prep others, you know, if thisis something we've been living
(21:28):
with for a long time, or let'ssay it's even like a
relationship style, wanting toopen up a relationship.
You know, often one person willstart we'll get this idea right
and they'll start to read allthe books and listen to the
podcast and things like that,and then all of a sudden they
just like blurt it out to theirpartner when they've been doing
(21:50):
all the research and their wayover here and their partner is
still back here.
And that can be problematic,because you're sort of like
dumping a lot of stuff onsomebody that they're not
prepared for.
And I think when we're talkingabout shame and sharing a secret
or something that's been likepart of us for a while, that
(22:13):
we're nervous about, we kind ofhave to prep them for that too
and give them the opportunity toeven opt into the conversation
by saying there's something Iwant to talk about and it might
be difficult to hear like, orsomething you know let's, can we
pick a time to set aside likethis is all that we're going to
(22:38):
do for an hour and get it on theschedule kind of thing, and
also set boundaries around it,like I have an expectation that
you can hear this withoutexploding, freaking out, crying,
you know, judging all thethings like can we just have a
(23:00):
conversation without mainly thejudgment?
Of course, you can't controlsomeone's emotions, but I'm not
up for hearing you know yourjudgment or opinion around this.
It's something that I'm reallyscared to share with you and I
want to be vulnerable.
Annette Benedetti (23:20):
Right.
How do you get someone to pointwhere they're ready to even
share something they're ashamedof?
I mean, is there some amount ofinner work they need to do with
that shame first to even be ina place to share it?
CJ (23:34):
Yeah, I think everybody's different.
I think my coaching isn't aboutthe goal of, like, you have to
share things, okay, this is a anindividual decision, and what
my work primarily is is a placeto a safe place to talk about
(23:57):
things that you can't share withsomebody else and then
processing that and determininga path forward.
And the path forward might beI'm going to keep it where it is
and keep it to myself, and I'mgoing to support myself in this
way.
The main thing is that they'vehad an opportunity to have
(24:23):
someone listen to them withoutthe judgment, and then they can
make a more clear decision,because often people, I think,
have a big secret, you know, orthey're going outside of their
relationship for an experience,and a lot of it can be very much
like a pressure cooker of likeI need to do this thing, and
(24:47):
then they go do the thing andthen it's fine, but they might
be feeling guilty about it orsomething, and I think over time
that can build up and this islike a different way of
releasing some of that pressureand making decisions that aren't
they're not, you know, off thecuff decisions.
(25:09):
They're not under stress,they're not in a headspace.
That's like, just, I need toget my fix, or whatever it's
like more of a just, calmenvironment and being able to
talk about it and then makingmore rational decisions around.
What does that mean for me in mylife and in my relationships?
(25:30):
Do they need to know?
Do I continue this way?
You know, maybe you're not in arelationship but you want to be
in a relationship.
What if you have a particulartype of fetish that's key to
your sexuality and you'reembarrassed about it?
I can just about guarantee thatsomeone's into it.
(25:51):
You know, or like there's goingto be an outlet for you, and if
you can take that as like yourown knowledge about yourself in
that self work of like, I acceptthat this is my thing and it's
okay.
I don't have control over itper se.
(26:13):
Who like invite somebody in,right, then then that's an
opportunity to invite somebodyin instead of trying to push it
off to the side.
You know it can be anopportunity.
Annette Benedetti (26:27):
Right, because when you find people
that accept you in yourauthentic self, then that shame
lessons.
Or when you meet other peoplewho have the same interests that
you do and get the samepleasure out of the same thing,
and you see those people and youthink, wow, you're really cool
person who's doing amazingthings in your life.
(26:48):
Maybe I am too, and the factthat my desire is this taboo
thing because of our culturedoesn't lessen who I am as a
human being.
Right, right, that makes sense.
So you it sounds like you foundthat sexual shame causes people
(27:11):
to even stay away fromrelationships because they don't
know how to reveal the thingthat they really want with it,
with a partner.
And if you can't reveal thething you really want or you do,
and your partner rejects it orjudges you and tells you you're
a bad person because of it, thenyou might look to get that
(27:36):
taken care of outside of therelationship, secretly, so that
you can keep the person you loveeven though technically they're
saying they don't love you theway you are and continue the
relationship Absolutely.
CJ (27:48):
And I think that's the point is we may have an aversion to
something that someone shareswith us initially, and I'm
absolutely sure that I've shamedpeople in the past for a
request or for an interest orwhatever it was, and I hope that
(28:15):
you know it's not somethingthat's been lingering with them.
I don't I can't recall anythingspecific, but in I think, in
particular in monogamousrelationships, if you are not
open to hear your partner'sdesires and excitement about
(28:41):
something and be open about it,that in particular is going to
be problematic For sure.
So we think we have this fear.
Some people who are monogamoushave a fear of losing their
partner and have a fear aroundopening up or whatever it is, or
(29:02):
they they really enjoy beingpartnered with one person.
I think if that's your goal, itis probably going to be
beneficial to you to be veryopen minded about exploring
sexuality, sexual experiencestogether and really being open
(29:26):
to those conversations, ifthat's you know, if your partner
is bringing these things up.
Not everyone has, like, a highdesire for sexual experiences,
but if they do, the more openyou are and can meet them, I
(29:48):
think, the better chances ofyour monogamous relationship
style staying intact, you knowis going to be.
Annette Benedetti (29:57):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I think that monogamy does sortof create a situation where if
you are going, if you're goingto have someone commit to you
solely for life, then you needto be there to show up for their
, their needs sexually.
(30:17):
And you know, I will say and Isay it time and time again, no
one owes anyone else sex, everPeriod.
And I've definitely had manypoints of it.
I've had many experiences in mylife where I felt like people
felt I owed them sex or owedsomeone else sex or should have
(30:39):
had sex when I was like I don'twant to.
However, the other thing I haveseen a lot throughout my life
in monogamous relationships, andit tends to be.
This is a very genderedconversation, but in my
experience, what I find happensoften is at some point in a
(30:59):
relationship, the woman decidesshe really isn't into sex
anymore, and I believe 100% it'snot because she's not into sex,
it's just that she's neverexperienced truly pleasurable
sex for herself.
And so she's like I'm done ofdone, handing over my body to be
pounded on by this guy who'snot feeding my pleasure, right.
(31:20):
And so she's like I'm just notinto it anymore.
And then the guy is like I, youknow, I want sex, not only that
, I kind of wanted, like, dothese things.
But he doesn't feel like youcan come to her because she
doesn't even want to have sexwith him.
And now they're both heldhostage in a relationship where
(31:41):
nobody's needs are getting met.
Right, yeah, yeah.
And I believe at the heart ofthat whole situation is shame,
right.
It starts when a woman can'teven say to her partner you know
, I want to do these things, Ineed these things from you.
So they start out their sexlife with, just you know, him
pounding away at her.
(32:01):
And then he's over herethinking, I want to like.
Well, apparently he wants herto like, spank him and call her
mommy.
I don't know, but doesn't youknow, feel comfortable telling
her that and the walls are built, and, and it ends how we all
know it ends Right, yeah, yeah.
(32:23):
So, on that note, as we headinto the last part of this
podcast, I think there are twothings.
I want to make sure that weleave listeners with a on the
side of shame people workingwith their own shame.
I would love to leave them withjust some tips, things they can
implement in their life ontheir own now, starting tonight,
(32:45):
to start working on their shame.
Maybe it's how to identify itif they have it.
But then I think the second partof this needs to be as a
partner, as a receiver ofinformation, as someone who
wants to have healthyrelationships.
How do we make sure we aren'tthe ones causing shame to others
(33:07):
in our lives who we want tohave healthy relationships with?
So I want to start, obviously,like with the tips for all of us
in dealing with our own shame,because we all have it on one
level or the other, and then wewill move into now make sure
you're not the one shaming otherpeople, and here are some ways
(33:30):
you can make sure that you'renot the one perpetuating shame.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, all right.
Well, let's start with what doyou got?
What do you?
How can I, or anyone at mylevel or any level, just start
working tonight on on my ownshame?
CJ (33:50):
I think a great place to start is really thinking about
what you want.
What you want, not what youthink somebody else wants,
because often when we dosomething we're trying to like,
second guess what somebody elsedesires.
Like people pleasers inparticular, but even just a lot
(34:14):
of people just to keep the peace, are looking to the other
person for like an indication ofwhat's okay to want.
I think getting really deepinto yourself, maybe through
journaling or whatever it islike, however, those thoughts
come up for you, really takingthat on board.
(34:38):
What is it that you want?
What would make your lifeexperience really awesome?
Like, and if it's in terms ofsex, you know, what is it that's
missing?
Why do you feel?
You know that maybe you don'twant to have sex anymore?
What is it like?
(34:59):
What would make it morepleasurable?
Now for talking about an absenceof pain or something like that.
That's a difficult thing.
I'm not a therapist and I'm nota doctor, you know.
I think getting proper medicalattention is always key and
being very upfront withprofessionals about your needs
(35:20):
in that area is the way to go.
But really getting in touchwith yourself, like what are
your needs, what are yourdesires, and not having fear
around like what does it meanand where does it come from and
why.
It's not about the why it'sabout what it is and identifying
(35:42):
it without having a lot ofnegative talk or concern about
it, and sitting with that andmaybe identifying some if you
have asked for it in the pastand maybe what kind of reaction
you've gotten, identify possiblesources of shame and just
(36:05):
notice those right, notice wherethat comes from, but don't get
hung up on like the cycle of it.
I think that's a great place tostart.
Annette Benedetti (36:16):
So identifying the thing, because
there might be a couple.
I mean, I got a whole bunch ofthings, yeah, and that's great,
and what I'm hearing is likeidentifying them, especially the
ones I have trouble asking forand believe it or not, listeners
, I actually do still havetrouble asking for some things
(36:46):
and not.
And then you're saying, once Irecognize those things or
anybody else not getting hung upin the in the, the judgment
piece of like well, why do Iwant that?
What does that mean about me?
Where does it come from Exactly?
CJ (37:01):
Because we can often be our own worst enemy in this area too
.
Where it's like you wereself-judging, we have this like
oh, I shouldn't feel this way, Ishouldn't want that.
That's like I'm a feminist, soI can't want that, or, you know,
whatever it is.
I can think of a couple of kinksthat fall into that oh yeah,
(37:22):
Like that's so common and that'sthe other thing is like
recognizing that you're notalone.
You know, look for the places.
If you feel alone, look for theplaces where you're gonna find
that like you're not alone.
It's.
You know, there's lots ofFacebook groups out there and
all kinds of things and likeerotica sells and all you have
(37:49):
to do is be on like an eroticaFacebook page and realize that
you're not alone in things thatyou desire.
Right, it's true.
Annette Benedetti (37:57):
It's true, lots of feminists are, you know,
wearing collars, gettingspanked, have daddies, it's true
, and lots of other other stuff.
And so we do this, we identifythe things, we do the work to
(38:17):
not start questioning where doesit come from?
Like, I don't have daddy issues.
That's not why I want to callhim dad.
You know what I mean, like allthat stuff.
But that's, that's some realshit.
Go back and listen to mypodcast on mommy doms, daddy
doms.
CJ (38:35):
Yes, it's an excellent one.
I really enjoyed that.
I loved it.
Annette Benedetti (38:39):
We talk about that Are the outside of just
identifying it.
Are there any other additionalthings we can do just sitting
with ourselves to help make usfeel better about the shame we
have attached to those things?
CJ (38:53):
Yeah, yeah, I think, also not allowing ourselves to go
into the negative talk, but itdoesn't mean that you can't be
curious, right, curiosity is keyand also playfulness.
You know we do.
There's a lot of serious shitin our lives.
Why can't this be anopportunity for play?
(39:16):
Why can't we bring in some play?
And maybe the play means soloplay around yourself.
Maybe it is buying some eroticaor listening to erotica.
There's so many resources nowthat we can access and try it
(39:43):
out.
You know, explore that foryourself, because maybe it's
just sort of like I might beinto that and figuring that out
right, making it playful, makingit fun.
Annette Benedetti (39:59):
Right, and another piece you brought up is
finding groups, whether onsocial media or meetups with
other people who are in the samething, because when you see and
meet other people who are thesame as you, you see that you're
okay because they're okay.
So that would just be an easything to do to start, like,
(40:24):
dispelling some of the myths andshame around us.
So here's a question before wemove on to what we can do to
make sure we're not shamingothers.
If you are not in arelationship yet and you are
experiencing shame and concernaround a kink or a sexual
interest or anything having todo with sex, could it be
(40:47):
beneficial to see a sex workerto try out some of those things
before seeking out arelationship with someone else?
To do some exploratory workwith someone who is safe,
understands what they're therefor and I'm thinking BDSM is
(41:09):
most obvious.
There are domes you can hire tohelp you explore if you're
anybody interested in being asub, but any sex worker can help
you try out things that you'restruggling with and I am saying
again, this is prior to being ina relationship Well, I would
(41:29):
even say.
CJ (41:30):
It doesn't have to be couched like that either,
because even if you are in arelationship, you might need to
explore to a certain degree ifthis is worth, even like perhaps
upsetting the apple cart rightof the relationship.
Annette Benedetti (41:49):
Okay so, you think, if you're in a
relationship and something iscoming up, you're in a
commitment with somebody andthey just don't seem open to
talking about it all but youdon't want to go and like blow
the whole relationship that itmight be an option to go ahead
and hire a dom or something likethat to go outside of your
relationship and and considerexploring it.
CJ (42:12):
Well, there's different degrees of that right.
There's porn, there's erotica,there's phone sex, there's, you
know, ways that you can do thosethings without necessarily
physically interacting withanother person.
I'm not judging doing thateither.
I think you have to make thatdecision for yourself.
(42:33):
But, yes, I think that thoseare good tools, and sex workers
are often people who have seen alot of things and aren't, you
know, phased.
Annette Benedetti (42:44):
So that's a couple of things, and some sex
workers have skills specificallyin that area to help you figure
it out.
They are skilled folks, theyhelp you explore it.
CJ (42:55):
A lot of you know.
We have a lot of wonderful sextherapists and doctors who can
assist as well.
There are also a lot ofhorrible experiences that I've
heard of with judgment and, asmuch as you know, a therapist
might be trained.
They can also hold their ownsort of judgments about certain
(43:19):
things.
So be careful in that area.
But also, if you're in theplace of feeling very unstable
or very concerned or depressedabout your particular thing,
please seek help, because it canbe very scary and depressing
(43:40):
for some people and it isimportant to get the support
that you need.
Maybe exploration needs to beput to the side.
Well, it's wonderful advice.
Annette Benedetti (43:52):
So on the other end of this, let's talk
about our job as the informationreceiver our job to step up and
not perpetuate sexual shame andnot to accidentally sexually
shame other people.
I know I know lots of sexpositive people, including
myself.
I've had moments, even on thispodcast, where I've been like,
(44:16):
oh that's, that could be shamingof another person.
It's so ingrained into who weare.
So what are some tools we canstart using, like right now, to
do less of that?
CJ (44:30):
I think one main thing is to pause.
Pause before reacting and thisis across the spectrum of any
interaction with humans, ratherthan knee-jerk reactions or
stuff that we've been holding onto for a while to respond in
the typical way when we hear aparticular thing.
(44:51):
Take a pause, maybe take abreath and determine am I going
to hurt this person potentially,or make them feel shame?
Also, if you are not in a placeto receive information that you
(45:12):
think might be coming, you cansay I can't hear this right now.
You can have a boundary arounda conversation, right?
We don't need to heareveryone's stuff all the time.
Whenever they're ready,whenever they want to share it
with us, we can ask are youabout to share something that
(45:34):
potentially might be a largerconversation that our five
minutes don't allow for?
Something like that?
Just, I think having boundariesaround conversation is also
important.
And then the other thing isagain get curious.
Try to be open.
(45:54):
Try to be curious.
If you don't know what to say,if you're feeling a little bit
shocked or repulsed maybe it'slike you know can you tell me
what that looks like for you?
Because we also tell ourselvesstories about what something
means to somebody else and wemight have it completely wrong.
(46:20):
You know, let's ask what doesthat look like for you?
What does that mean?
What would you envision thatsort of thing Getting curious?
Annette Benedetti (46:32):
I think about how many topics might.
Initial reaction would havebeen an ick reaction.
But because I'm askingquestions, because that's what
I'm supposed to do here fory'all, I have to get curious.
I have to dig in and answer,asking questions about things
(46:53):
that I started out going ew, ew,my favorite example, is semen
facials.
And then the more I got curiousabout well, why do you like it?
Like?
What is it that you are into?
And then, even more importantly, why do I think it's icky?
Like why, when I don't think x,y and z is yucky, you know, and
(47:17):
being curious is such a funthing to do because it tears
down a lot of barriers thatyou've put up in your own mind,
that you didn't even know werethere, that are keeping you from
enjoying life and bonding withother people you know, yeah, and
(47:39):
even you know it might not besomething, ultimately, that
you're willing to do, it doesn't.
CJ (47:46):
Also, when someone shares something, it doesn't mean
you're obligated to participate.
They're sharing a part ofthemselves with you and just see
that as a gift, right?
Then the question can be likeare you expecting me to provide
this or to experiment with youand you can determine if that's
(48:12):
something that you're willing todo.
And if you do decide that, I'mwilling to try.
You know and it doesn't meanthat you're locked in you can
try something.
You can have a boundary aroundit.
I'm willing to try this forfive minutes and if I say read,
it stops before that.
(48:33):
You know, whatever it is.
So just being curious and beingopen, but also knowing that
it's you don't have anobligation to provide that for
somebody.
But maybe there's somethinglike well, I don't know if I'd
be into that, but I think Imight be okay with this part of
(48:54):
it, and maybe we can meet in themiddle somewhere or, you know,
give and take a little bit.
Annette Benedetti (49:01):
Yeah, wouldn't that be wonderful if we
learned how to do that, if welearned how to that it doesn't
have to be all or nothing andthat there are always solutions,
creative solutions.
You know, I think that issomething in our society.
We get into the black and whitea lot and we do our partners a
(49:23):
lot of harm.
Yes, when we, when we put ourrelationship into black or white
right or wrong, you know, it'sjust yes or no it could be like,
well, yes, but with all ofthese adjustments to how we're
doing it, you know, practice Imean negotiating this a practice
(49:44):
setting boundaries.
CJ (49:45):
It's a practice saying no, saying yes, what are you willing
to explore?
Like?
All of that is a constantpractice.
You know I'm still doing it.
Yeah, even though I've had alot of explorations, I'm still
learning and find that I getmyself into situations that, oh,
(50:08):
I wish I had said this or Iwish I had done that, or it's a
constant practice.
Annette Benedetti (50:13):
It is, and we're all doing the work.
So, listeners, I feel likeyou've got a lot to work with
tonight.
You're gonna get out yourlittle notebooks and, if you
have a partner, you're hidingsome stuff from.
You're gonna go and sit downand write down those things that
you are afraid to say to themand start exploring them in
(50:34):
whatever.
And if you don't have a partner, you can do this activity too,
because I'm pretty sure all ofus are horny little
motherfuckers who are afraid toreally dive into those things we
want to do.
I also want to super encouragewomen out there in particular
who have said to themselves I'mdone with sex, I don't really
(50:56):
want it anymore, I don't reallyneed it anymore To reconsider
that and start exploring yourpleasure and your fantasies.
Sexual pleasure and sex isvital to our health and our
(51:16):
longevity, especially post 40and 50 and 60.
Vaginal health, whole health,emotional health.
So if you think you've given up, start digging in, all right.
Well, so if you want to reachout to CJ and start working on
(51:38):
your own shamelessness journey,cj, I'd love for you to tell my
listeners where they can findout more about you and get in
touch with you if they want to.
CJ (51:48):
Yeah, so basically we're gonna be moving away from shame.
That's what we're doing.
We're kicking it to the curband setting it aside so we can
figure out how we canauthentically express ourselves
and who we are.
I am doing a lot of workcurrently on Instagram talking
(52:09):
about boundaries, getting towhat we want and finding our nos
, finding our yeses and also mywebsite is no shame with CJcom
On Instagram.
It's also no shame with CJ.
So follow me.
I'd love to interact with youon Instagram I don't care what
(52:32):
you have to say and book adiscovery call with me.
You know we can talk free,discovery call and figure out if
working with me is somethingthat makes sense for you.
Annette Benedetti (52:47):
Thank you for that.
You can also scroll down to thenotes in this podcast and the
description and you're gonnafind links to CJ's site.
You guys know where to find me.
I am Locker Room Talking Shotson Facebook and Instagram.
You can find my personalInstagram at BingBenedetti.
(53:08):
You can find me on TikTok atLocker Room Talk Podcast Also
head over to my website.
It is Locker Room TalkPodcastcom, and I think that about sums it
up.
Oh, you can watch this onYouTube.
Find me at a net Benadetti overthere, my long, long name.
(53:28):
Thank you all for listening.
Thank you for talking to us andhelping us in our journey on
losing our sexual shame, cj.
Until next time, listeners, Iwill see you in the Locker Room.
Cheers, cheers.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.