#119 - Jack Elliot - How does Evolutionary Biology Shape the World Around You? - Long Term Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
What drew you to the study of ecology, and how does it
intersect with your interest in evolutionary biology?
So I was initially, I initially liked, well, when I first went
into university, I went to Concordia to start for I did, I
majored in, in chemistry and I think I, I don't even know if I

(00:21):
had a minor at that point, but Idid that.
And then I took organic chem andthat completely turned me off.
Yeah, I, I dropped out before the midterm.
Like I got a tutor and everything.
Like we go to Tim horton's and stuff and, and like, like just
grind out, drawing out the, the,the, the, the chemical

(00:43):
structures and stuff. But then I dropped it.
And then the next semester I went to McEwan and then took
like the zoology class, I think it was, it was something,
something with vertebrates. But that just kind of hooked me
because it was just they, they talked about everything related
to vertebrates. And like I'd knew, I'd known

(01:05):
about roughly, you know, evolutionary thought and stuff
like that, but I didn't know just how related everything is.
So like we talked about, you know, snakes and and birds and
like primates, humans, everything.
So that that was just a 200 level class.
So that kind of got me, me hooked onto it.

(01:25):
And then unfortunately for McEwen, there's not a lot for
zoology. So ecology was kind of the next,
the next thing. And I mean, I didn't just do it
because, oh, it's like, this is all I have left.
I'll just do this. But I did have some interest in
it, but it also kind of crossed paths a little bit with zoology.
So that's, I would say that's that's probably how I got into

(01:47):
it in terms of what was the second part.
The the second one said. How does it intersect with your
interest in evolutionary biology?
Well, like a big part of what I'm interested in and what I'd
like to do is apply my, apply mybackground in ecology into, into

(02:15):
human origins, if I can. So like into the study of, of
our origins as as a species. So it's really popular for, for
people in paleoanthropology to look at like look at fossils,
but then infer ecology from that.
So infer how were these ancientsancient humans or ancient

(02:38):
relatives of humans? How were they interacting with
their environment? So like looking at different
structures and then inferring diet or inferring, you know, if
they walked in trees or not, or if they walked on the ground,
stuff like that. So, and I just recently, this is
where, and I'm, I'm, I'm a little bit like proud of this,

(03:01):
I'd say. But like, I was watching this,
this podcast on, on human evolution and there was this,
this guest who had their e-mail at the bottom of the
description, like the YouTube description.
And I straight up just emailed her.
And turns out she's like, she has a PhD in, in evolutionary

(03:21):
biology and teaches at like, like UCF in the, in the US.
And I just emailed her and I'm like, I really liked your
episode on the podcast. The podcast is called Evolution
Soup. It's got like 10,000
subscribers. So not much, but really
interesting to me. So then I was like, I told her a
little bit about my background and she kind of said like to use

(03:42):
ecology as one of your strengthsin if you're thinking of going
into like pale anthropology and anthropology.
Because I initially before emailing her, I kind of thought
like, I really need to get a lotof experience, which I still, I
still most likely do if I want to go into this, into this
field. But it was kind of like, oh, I

(04:04):
have a lot of background already, I should use this to my
advantage when I'm talking to tosupervisors and stuff.
So yeah. Yeah, I did.
It's crazy how connected we are in a way where you can just
e-mail somebody with a PHDI didn't actually just have a back

(04:24):
and forth conversation with themand give them advice and.
She literally said she literallysent, she literally sent me in
the e-mail she sent me her thesis.
So like 200 page thesis. And then she sent me a video of
her, of her, her thesis defense.So like in front of, you know,
20 other profs like an hour and a half video.
Dude, that's incredible. Yeah.
What, what draws you into evolutionary biology, though,

(04:47):
that does it give you meaning into into your insights into
your own life? Like, does it, is it, do you
just find it interesting? But what's kind of the utility
'cause you could argue that, oh,it's just, it happened back
then, right? How does?
How can you really apply it to now?
Well, I mean, I think it's in part interest.

(05:11):
It's mostly interest, but I think it's also there's a little
bit of it. It would be the same like I look
at it as I look at it as as beauty almost just knowing what,
knowing that, knowing what we did 2,000,000 years ago and then

(05:32):
looking at not necessarily like evolution isn't goal oriented.
So there's no goal in mind of it.
Like the goal isn't to, you know, evolution 2,000,000 years
ago didn't have a goal in mind saying, oh, in 2025 we'll have,
you know, electric cars and stuff like that.

(05:53):
But it's interesting to look at the differences between like
technology and culture and aspects like that 2,000,000
years ago and then to look at what we have now.
So I think part of it is the fact that it's just really
interesting to know about primitive, which is not, it's

(06:14):
not really people considered consider, you know, cult culture
millions of years ago to be primitive.
I think that's kind of potentially up for the for
debate, but I think just knowingthat there was some sort of

(06:35):
similarity to US millions of years ago is really fascinating.
Like for me, obviously it would be cooler, it would be cooler to
study chimpanzees than to study elephants.
I think both would be really cool.
But the fact that we share like 98% of our genome with, with
chimps makes it like completely more like as a whole, so much

(07:03):
more interesting. So I think it's interest, it's
beauty. And then it's, I would guess
awe, the fact that that you can just study things that, you
know, literally share so much ofyour so much of, of your genetic
makeup. I believe it grants us so much
insight into the way we think and it gives us more of an

(07:33):
answer when it comes to the subconscious.
You know, when you why do, what do you get angry?
You know, where did this come from?
And when you listen to all theseevolutionary psychologists or
biologists, they will tell you that, oh, that's back in your
primitive days, anger was a way to establish, you know, that
you're willing to cause harm to someone.

(07:55):
And there it had utility back then.
Now it doesn't so much. Or how negativity is prioritized
because people died when it cameto negativity.
Like why prioritize 1000 puppieswhen there's a snake, right?
Right within right. And it seems obvious at that,
like when you, when you're told it like, oh, that's just, I do

(08:18):
that everyday. But it's actually like people
have done so much research onto this and have been getting
looking at the bones and making inferences.
And, and we may not be 100% correct, right, Because we don't
have video footage. We can just make inferences on
to kind of the their diet based in the bone structure and based

(08:40):
on compare that to what we have today on to what was there
2,000,000 years ago because there's decay, right and
there's. All these, all these.
Things that get in the way to get to gain accuracy.
But yeah, dude, I, I can't get enough of evolutionary
psychology, biology. And you mentioned it's cooler to

(09:03):
look at chimps. Yeah.
And yeah, no, I agree, man. I, I was, I just finished think
that last year I watched Chimp Empire.
It was on, it was on Netflix. You've seen that.
Yeah, Yeah. And it's just like, yes, they're
a lesser form of intelligence, but you almost relate to them so
much more than, let's say, a dog.

(09:25):
Because you see the. I don't know if you remember the
plot of the the documentary or vaguely.
Vaguely, Yeah. But like the IT started off with
one tribe or one chimpanzee group, but then there were some
politics involved because one was more in the hierarchy kind

(09:46):
of mentality, which included some females in the mix to fight
and some included kind of the alpha mentality, which were they
more prioritized just being strong and being the alpha.
And then there was some resources involved and some
territorial disputes. And it's like this is if you

(10:09):
just replace these with heat, like with salt or like money or
like if you it, it get big sensefor humans.
So the connection is there. And it's like you gain so much
insight on to us just by alerting about the other species
and about our history. It's it's awesome.
Yeah. I think it's interesting that

(10:32):
you say like like I would, I would more say they have a
different kind of intelligence versus a lesser type of
intelligence. Like obviously if we're going to
make, if we're going to like make like an actual tier list
about accomplishments, obviouslyhumans, you know, true.

(10:53):
But the one thing with the one thing with kind of saying
lesser, like a lot of the times we've used kind of like because
of the fact that we're super closely related to them.
Like a lot of people in early, early science were like, oh, you

(11:14):
know, since we since since humans came, since humans most
likely came from Africa, like and chimps have lower
intelligence, you know, people, people with of African descent
might have lower intelligence. So like, it's not to say that
that's a bad thing to say, but it's just like people use that

(11:36):
narrative in in in not a good way sometimes, I would say.
Yeah, I mean, they have. There's different skills.
Yeah, yeah, of course. Definitely.
If you put a chimp one-on-one with a human, like without any
tools, they they just get rippedapart.
Yeah. But yeah, I think intelligence
is a tough topic because it depends what you're measuring,

(11:58):
right? Because there's all these
different types of intelligences, like there's the
kinesthetic, and there's just sheer raw, like processing
power, which, yeah. Are there any recent discoveries
in human evolution that you findparticularly exciting or
groundbreaking? I think the, the, the tool use

(12:25):
like we most conventionally anthropologists think that some
stone tools evolved when genus Homo evolved.
So Homo habilis, which was like I think 1.8 to, to to 2.5
million years ago. And then in that, in that period

(12:49):
they built stone tools. But a couple years ago, I think
either last year or the year before, it could have been a
little bit longer, but they found stone tools and another
site that was dated to three million years ago with
associated with another kind of this offshoot hominin.

(13:09):
They have these really big, really big molars, really big,
like really big cheekbones. They had a like a sagittal Crest
like dogs have for lots of muscle attachments, but which is
just kind of the time that they,they lived around a time where a
lot of the hominins, so species that were most more closely

(13:32):
related to us than, than chimps,a lot of them had, didn't have
these, these big kind of robust faces.
So that was just number one. It's just interesting that they
lived around the same time as us.
But then #2 there was stone tools found with, with the
bigger face species. And I'm talking about
Paranthropus, they're called. And that kind of might have

(13:55):
pushed back the, the the earliest stone tools to before
like before Homo. So like with with Homo is
associated we usually associatedwith like larger, larger brain
size tool use and then like smaller, smaller back teeth.

(14:16):
So like that pushes it back at least at least 500,000 years if
it's, if it's associated with that species.
I, I, I think that's, that's probably the coolest thing a lot
of the times nowadays, most of the research focuses on kind of

(14:36):
like I would say anything, anything kind of 1.5 between
2,000,001.5 years to present. So that's what most of the, the
work focuses on. So I don't, I still look at that
stuff. So like we're talking about
Neanderthals and like like earlyhumans, a lot of the times it's

(14:58):
dates, it's it's stuff dated to like less than less than a
million years. So I like that stuff, but I tend
to kind of gravitate more towards like pre, pre, pre genus

(15:20):
Homo. So pre 2.5 million years ago.
I like that stuff a lot more because they're, I don't know.
It's because a lot of those species show tons of
intermediate traits they'll liketalk about the missing link,
which first of all, missing linkis not really not really true.

(15:42):
What do you mean by missing link?
Miss so missing link would be like, you know oh like like
between say like a missing link would be something that would
show chimp characteristics and human characteristics and

(16:04):
there's that there's like there's hundreds of of specimens
that that have been found that show that but.
Like when the crossover was. Not one.
There's not exact like there's not one.
There's there's times where we where we can, we can calculate
where we think species diverged,but like to know the exact

(16:24):
exactly how much time is is hard.
But I'm talking more so like people, people will object to
evolution and they'll say, you know, if, if we share a common
ancestor with, with chimpanzees,why haven't we found something

(16:46):
between that ancestor and between US and chimpanzees?
And then and we have. So yeah, I totally forgot what I
was talking about so much. But what was between the the
chimp and the human? Tons, tons of stuff man.
Traditionally speaking, like what most people would say is

(17:09):
the oldest kind of like between chimps and us would be like like
7,000,000 years ago and then 7,000,000 years ago to now.
There's about 20 different different species that you could
say are between chimps and and humans if you know, if you want

(17:29):
to want to talk about it like that.
But yeah. What's What's a common
misconception people have about evolution that you wish more
people understood? Well I talked about the the
missing link thing. I mean, miss like the the whole

(17:51):
missing link thing. I don't know if you've seen the
the March of progress like on, on, on T-shirts or stuff where
it starts with a chimp and then slowly they get, they go from
knuckle walking to, you know, bent knees clamoring on the
ground, and then they're fully bipedal.
I've seen that on The Simpsons. Yeah, like #1 for that, that
shows that. That shows a lot of

(18:13):
misconceptions. We can talk about that later.
But in terms of actually like the missing link, it's missing
links themselves. Like species typically don't go
like they don't usually go one species and then annexed and
then annexed. It's usually one and then
there's branches. So it's more like like a

(18:34):
missing, the missing link would be like a straight line and
there'd just be one species in between, little dots in between
on the line. But evolution is more like a
tree. So there's stuff at the base of
the tree and then everything just branches out.
So, you know, at the, you'll have a small branch at the base
of a tree, and then that will lead to something else and
they'll split off and then theseguys will split off and they'll

(18:56):
be lots of, lots of splitting like that.
So it's it's not, it's not. Evolution's not linear like
that. What causes the splitting?
There's couple different ways, most so speciation when when
populations give rise or or likesplit off into into different

(19:19):
species. Usually it's when a population
is like a population is, is isolated from another.
So one example is like, you know, if you have a species of
squirt, a population of squirreland then through, you know, over

(19:41):
time a mountain goes up in between, in between the
population of squirrels. One population might experience
different selective pressures than the other, so they might
develop different traits and different adaptations better
suit their environment on this side of the mountain.
The other guys might, you know, have different adaptations on
the other side. So that's one way.

(20:05):
That's usually the most common way.
Other ways are like that's wherewe have a parent population and
then we're switch, we're splitting into two different
ones. Another one is where you still
have, you'll have have one population and then you'll have
a select group of individuals inthat population that kind of

(20:29):
they end up making their own population.
So you have the same still have the same parent population, then
you have a new one. So that's another way.
So I would say like geographic isolation and then like kind of
where we have that the the parent population and just a a

(20:50):
small isolate of that population.
There's, there's other ways. I don't know as much, but yeah,
those are the, those are the twomain ones, I would say.
Yeah, I know we we talked about natural selection and Charles
Darwin. I don't know that's a that's a

(21:10):
big interest for you. Can you elaborate on that?
I mean, yeah, just like like it's just very contextual kind
of when he there was a lot of a lot of people think that that
Darwin came up with the whole idea of evolution.
He didn't, he was influenced, just influenced by a bunch of

(21:31):
people, him and, and, and another, another guy, Alfred
Russell Wallace, who looked at, he actually was, was kind of the
guy who talked about how he didn't say, oh, he didn't
directly say, oh, because we have, you know, isolated
populations. This directly gives rise to new

(21:54):
species. But he, he observed that we can
see different species on like there's different species on an
island from the that differ fromthe mainland.
And, and Darwin saw that also with like on the, on the, on the
Galapagos. But I think part of what
interests me is just like, it was just really revolutionary

(22:15):
what he came up with and, and the ideas that he released.
So I mean, whether you like it or not, like like all of all of
Darwin's ideas surround all of biology.
And it's, it's, it's, it's fundamental to to all biology.

(22:37):
And I don't know, I think we, wein scientists, we take it for
granted, I think sometimes just kind of how powerful the idea
is. Wasn't he there for the years
just on that, on that boat, justlooking at the yeah.
Yeah. And yeah, he was the.
Finches. He was young too.
He like he, he just kind of his,his family was really rich and

(22:59):
stuff, but he kind of just, he kind of just went along on the
on the ship and just made hundreds of observations and
stuff. Yeah, so.
Yeah, just chill on their head looking at the I wonder 'cause
he, he started off with like nothing, right?
Like he just developed the theory and then looked at the,
the the beaks and how they consume insects and how the

(23:25):
certain certain birds survived better than the birds who didn't
have that specific beak. And more overtime, the birds
that are selected for better mates and or better beaks had a
better chance of consuming the food.

(23:49):
And so the ones that just didn'thave that trait just died off.
And that seems it's so uncomfortable for people, like a
bad, bad idea because if you apply it to human beings, right,
they can be like, it works as well like a person that is
stronger, like was it's more robust.
It's more resistant to and to cancers, more resistant to the

(24:13):
obesity. And if you make these
observations and it's, that's just the way it is.
Like it's that's not to say thatwe shouldn't have compassion for
the people that are suffering. It's just like the way life is
designed that the the species and within that species, the

(24:36):
organisms that develop certain attributes that favor them, such
as maybe better colors to attract more mates.
They maybe they have, you know, a sharper beak to help them
Pierce fish or insects and drillinto trees more.
Maybe that's what what helps them.

(24:57):
But that's just, that's just thetruth, man.
You can, you can say, oh, it, itdoesn't exist, but there's
there's clear evidence on to that.
And like religion aside and all these politics, religion aside,
that's that's what was observed and that's been peer reviewed.
And we see that maybe not that we can't observe it upon

(25:20):
centuries, right? But we can, you know, it's even
evidence in years, right? The way they fruit flies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think like I'll I'll say
one thing about about what you said about the the beaks.

(25:43):
It's it's part, it's partly likeI would say it's more so like
not for beat, not, not not the better behaviors that survive
it. It is better behaviors, but it's
what works for it's what weight makes the individual survive
better and reproduce better. So if like 1 beak might work

(26:11):
better, you know, getting in, getting into trees.
But if that's not going to do anything about, if that's not
going to do anything about, about improving its chance of,
of surviving or, and sorry and not or surviving and
reproducing, then it's, it's yeah, like it's die out.

(26:35):
And, and it's, I do think it's kind of, it is a little bit grim
to think about it like that, butit's like, it's it, it, it, it's
what happens and it's not, it doesn't happen instantly.
It's gradual. So it's not that, that it's not
that the individuals like, oh, we don't have, oh shit.
We don't have good beaks. Like we're, we know we're going

(26:55):
to die in the morning. No, but it's just like it's a
struggle for existence. Yeah, yeah, survivability is
great and all, but if you don't have the ability to attract the
mates, if you don't have the ability to reproduce, then that
traits just going to die off, right?

(27:17):
If it's not, it's not if it's not valued by the other sex or
if it's not, if you do have a higher chance of reproduction,
but you can't survive right, then that's that's, that doesn't
work as well. And yeah, dude, I, I get into
that these like really weird andthe thoughts of oh man, like I'm

(27:40):
getting sick. This is just natural selection.
This is, this is Darwin's work. This is, I'm probably not going
to be able to reproduce now. Like this is it?
But then I, you realize that there's more to that, right?
There's there's technology there's like people are a lot
more compassionate than animals.Like animals are very they can

(28:01):
show compassion, but they're a lot more vicious when it comes
to survival of the fittest. I've seen those like certain
birds, man, just like kill off when they're young.
Those I love, I love the animals.
I love nature. I hope I definitely the animal
channel is definitely my my go to here and there.
Yeah, yeah, but it's vicious, man.

(28:21):
I don't we're we're definitely really blessed to be here and
have and have conversations likethese, because if we let natural
selection take its course and wedon't aren't civil right, like
we'll just pillage and. Just do what I mean, like this
sounds completely ridiculous, but like, like if you get your

(28:45):
leg ripped off, you can call theambulance and go to the
hospital. If something rips you, if you're
an animal and something rips, you're laying off, you're just
sitting there. There's not like I I do agree
we're we're way more fortunate. Yeah, dude.
But I've seen I, I look at some animals and I'm, I'm inspired
sometimes. I when I was a kid, I saw this

(29:07):
this bird with an arrow in its chest and it just kept flying.
Did it? Didn't, it didn't question
whether it was and I'm going to see five more days.
If you didn't question, you know, what does it say about
this, their character and fear and and willpower?
No, it just, it just does, you know, my, my dog's hind legs

(29:28):
stop working and he just, he doesn't give a fuck.
He doesn't, he just keeps going like he doesn't compare his life
before, like he doesn't experience grief.
And that's kind of a blessing and a curse to us, you know,
because as soon as one thing's ripped away from us, we're like,
oh, what, what is this? You know what, why did this

(29:48):
happen to me? There's so many other people in
the world. And it's just, that's why I like
the, the, the stoic mentality, Imean, which is just accepting
life for what it is. And easier said than done, but.
Definitely a lot of, a lot of. The flaws that we do have is
suffering in our imagination a lot more than just do it.

(30:10):
This just living, you know, which is where we could take a
lot of notes from animals with their lack of conscious
awareness. Yeah, yeah.
Just don't. What do you do?
You do you. Look into a lot of evolutionary
psychology as well. No, not particularly Biology.

(30:32):
Yeah. More or less, yeah, Yeah.
And, and like, I, I like genetics.
Well, I, I like genetics to a degree.
I like understanding like I have, I have ADHD.
So it's like I'm kind of when I'm fixated on something, I'm

(30:54):
totally fixated on it. And like, especially with, with,
with passions and stuff and it's, it can be hard to find
other passions sometimes with it.
So like psychology, not really like genetics a little bit,
chemistry, not really like I like the, I like the macro

(31:16):
stuff. Like I like stuff that you can
kind of look at and and I, I like the, the microscopic stuff
too, but the like large scale bones and stuff.
The natural selection bones kindof like actual physical stuff
that you can see and like in regards to their diet back
thousands of years ago. Yeah, let's say I like, I like,

(31:36):
like, I like this is this is nice with, with ecological work.
Like I like going into the field.
I like collecting data. Then I like coming back and then
and then going on the computer and, and seeing, comparing it to
other people's studies, doing tests.
And then and then. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, you

(31:56):
know? Yeah, kind of forensics type.
A little bit, yeah. Yeah, I, I read the, the book
with Yuval Noel Harari, the Sapiens.
And we, we mentioned that earlier and he mentioned orders
a lot and how back then people actually lived longer.
I don't know if this is actuallytrue.

(32:18):
They they just take his word forit.
It sounds like he knew his stuff.
Orders actually lived longer because they were more more open
to all these different diets. They pretty much did a marathon
every day. And they the the Homo sapiens
that did survive, they were adopt at fighting off lions.

(32:43):
They were adopt at selecting berries versus nowadays we we
don't need to worry about that stuff like we just need to.
I know they just tested shit out.
They just tested shit out and ifit worked it.
Worked like oh Jimmy, Jimmy fucking died.
There wasn't. There was no, there's no Berry.
Feel good. Yeah there's no Google no
ChatGPT to save your ass there'sno skip the dishes then that you

(33:07):
had to be able to differentiate and it would it was subtle dude.
If you make the, if you make thewrong decision of Downing 1
Berry, that's poisonous, that that's your dad.
And if you're the head of the tribe, like you're done.
And if you're, if you got, if the next of kin are weaker,
everybody's wiped out. But it's, I find that so

(33:30):
fascinating. And then now I, it sucks that
we're, we're a lot more advancednowadays, say, but we're like so
weak, you know, like, sure, there's working out and sure
there's better diets, but with all this stuff we've, we've
become soft man. Like our ancestors would be just
looking at us being like, what happened, you know, like you're

(33:50):
just back then we'd had to fightoff lions and just survive in
-30 weather and survive through anything.
It was, it's, it was literally, I mean, like I don't, I don't
get it. I don't get up everyday and I'm
very fortunate that I don't haveto like being like I need to

(34:13):
make sure I survive today. But like they have to make sure
they have to make sure every daythat they survive all they're
doing. Like, like there wasn't time for
sitting down and, you know, picking up a rock, the Xbox rock
or whatever. Or talking about our feelings.
Yeah. No, it's just, it's just
getting, getting food and makingsure you're not fucking eaten.
Yeah, yeah, constantly being aware of their surroundings.

(34:37):
I think that's that's an explanation as to why a lot of
men have ADHD. According to evolutionary
psychology, biology is back then, no men were constantly
hyper aware of the things that were around us.
Like if we didn't, if we weren'tconstantly scanning for things

(34:58):
that constantly on the move, like the children and the woman
would be dead. Yeah, hypertension, yeah.
Yeah, you're constantly just like there's there's no time to
just read a book and just chill.No, you know, that was that was
not a that was not a privilege that was given to the the alphas
at the time, which were typically the men.

(35:20):
And yeah, it's just, I find thatfascinating too, when I hear
stuff like that. And I, that's why I can't sit
still sometimes. That's why I, when I'm reading a
book, I, I can't understand someof it sometimes because my
mind's everywhere. What's what's a tribe that you

(35:40):
find the most interesting, whether it be in today's tribe
or back thousands of years ago tribe?
That I found interesting or likea species.
Anything, man, I know you know that.
You ever heard of the Terra Hamara?
Some like that tribe they run did.
They don't. They just run.

(36:00):
Marathons in a day, just for fun, like for their.
I think it's I think, I think that I think the groups that
like the groups that move, so they're kind of nomadic, but
they also have have livestock. Like I think it's really cool.
The groups that like they don't they have they have huge groups

(36:26):
of livestock, but they're they're moving around all the
time. So I don't know.
I I think that's cool to like, it's interesting to think about
the fat. They're like they're moving on.
They're moving, but they're alsobringing an entire other.
They're bringing a huge group ofspecies, a huge group of animals

(36:47):
with them. So I don't know, I I find that I
find that interesting that. Existed millions of years ago.
Well, it still exists. It still exists today, yeah.
That's in the I know there's a lot of tribes that don't have
that, haven't had any outside contact and like scientists just

(37:08):
study them from like helicopters, like miles.
And Miles, there's, there's, there's one, I, I forget what
it's called, but really famous, like Christian missionary went
and was killed, yeah, was killedand like body dragged on the
beach and stuff by the by the tribe, yeah.

(37:31):
Yeah, it's it seems so barbaric to us, but to them it's just
like, yeah, this is, this is theprotocol.
I would this is a scary guy. You don't know what he wants.
Probably wants to. Kill us.
I mean, I mean, it's, it's also like my thought is my thought is
like we don't need to go around and, and go on to other people's

(37:54):
land just cause like, yeah, it's, it's, it's an intrusion.
I think like, like if people want to, if people, if you go
there and people are hostile, you know you shouldn't, you
know, you know you shouldn't be there.
Leave them, leave them alone. Eventually they'll they'll make

(38:16):
the contact necessary. I love science, but we don't
just, we don't just study everything.
Yeah, so that's true. Let them.
Let them have their peace. Before we continue, we got a
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(38:40):
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bundle up. Yeah.

(39:01):
So that's why, yeah. Yeah, man, it's, it's been
really, really cold out there compared to last week at.
Least it's just, it's just, it'sjust windy, yeah.
Yeah. So have you had the opportunity
to be involved in any research projects during your time at
McEwen? If So, what was the experience
like? So I've done 2 first one, yes,

(39:27):
just I'm just thinking the firstone was 2 summers ago and then
last summer as well with a Prof We went to Kananaskis for two
weekends in in in the summer andwe looked at, you know, pika R
Pike pika. You know what pika the fish.

(39:47):
No, it's like it's like a, it's a really small look it up if you
want. It's a really PIKA.
It's so they're, they're lagamorphs.
So they're, they're related to like to, to rabbits and stuff,
kind of the size of your fist, really, really fluffy.
But they and they only live in, they only live in high altitude.
Oh, man, I did my I did a research project in this in

(40:08):
elementary. Yeah, yeah, I remember grade
five. Yeah, I'm well versed in.
This yeah, they're awesome that they live in like they live in
super high elevation in the rocks and stuff and they're
basically what we looked at is it was with a sorry it was with
the prop already said that we looked at.
So we recorded their calls and stuff and then did a bunch of a

(40:30):
bunch of stats and stuff and looked at is there kind of is
there individual variation in these calls?
Like do these individual pica have different calls and if so,
what do we think their purposes?So that was that was super easy.
I did like that was just, that wasn't even a course.

(40:53):
That was it like a kind of a kind of a research grant.
Like I just it, it was just one of those things where I just
emailed a Prof and was like, youknow, are you doing anything?
And then how did you go on board?
Observe them without scaring them.
You had to be picked. With their binoculars.
So they're, they're really habituated to humans.
So, OK, yeah, you you can go. Like just pick one up.

(41:16):
No. Well, Kate, no, But yes.
No, you can't really. But my friend who was the other
student, she did. And then yeah, and my prophet,
my prophet been doing this. The prophet been doing it for
like 20 years and she never picked one up, just picked them.
And yeah, Bro went under her hand.
Oh wow, so must be an animal whisperer.
Yeah, there. I don't, I don't know how she

(41:36):
did it, but yeah, they're super like super used to humans.
So you can like we kind of just kind of just find a spot where
you can see one and then get your recorder ready and like
record and stuff and they'll run, run past your foot and
stuff and. Oh, that's awesome.
Yes. What was the the results of the
study? So like.

(41:57):
You said you'd the different coats.
Yeah, different, different. Like we found overall that there
is differences between their calls.
Unfortunately with like it just being kind of like an, an under
an undergraduate project, we didn't really have time to like

(42:18):
all we did was we, we just isolated the calls and then put
them into, into a stats program.Your calls would what are.
Calls, sorry, calls would be would be the the the the squeaky
high pitched calls that the Pikecan make.
Oh. OK, sorry, I thought it was
coats. Sorry calls.
Yeah, Wow, that's a clear like this.
The sudden the differences must have been really subtle.

(42:38):
Though they're very subtle. Yeah.
And it and it it also. Like how do you differentiate?
We, so we looked at, we looked at like we looked at pitch and
frequency and like the number ofwavelengths like indicative of
the the intensity of the call. But anyways, the results overall

(43:01):
we did find individual variation.
We don't. We didn't, like I said, since
it's undergrad, we didn't reallyhave time to look at why there
was variation, But we think it'skind of like, we think it's
probably due to the fact that ifyou like, if you can, if you can

(43:26):
admit calls only when you need to for enemies versus just doing
calls for your neighbor. So for a fellow pika, then it's
more benefit. It's like it's more beneficial
to save the calls for, for enemies and predators than it is

(43:48):
for doing it to other pika. That was it was it was the the
data recording part was fun, butthe kind of figuring stuff out
at the end was was not very fun and it was kind of rushed.
So yeah. Yeah, I've I've heard of monkeys
doing the same thing too, where,yeah, the different calls in, in

(44:12):
regards to their pitch and the duration of the call would the
difference would be very subtle,but one could be alerting the
other monkeys or one could be, you know, just laughing at

(44:34):
another monkey. So it's it's.
Crazy just how much pitch and just duration and the frequency
can play such a big role on to how the different animals
communicate. What area of research in ecology
or evolutionary biology would you most like to explore in the

(44:56):
future? And before we get to that, you
said you'd there was one more. Yeah, so, so more research.
This is with the post of the presentation I'm doing on
Friday. So this was this was an actual
like an actual credited class research class with a with a
Prof There was there was two students.

(45:17):
So basically we looked at, there's an organization in Elk
Island that at the park that looks, that has a bunch of
wildlife cameras and they, they look at kind of animal movement
across, across the fence lines. So we looked at a bunch of the
pictures that they that they took and we kind of analyzed

(45:39):
them and I guess did tests on them.
But what we were interested in, in looking at for me was like,
the fact is Elk Island, it's completely fenced around.
That's, that's to protect the bars and, and the elk and stuff.
But ultimately it's, it's not good as a whole because it

(46:00):
prevents them from dispersing and, and doing a bunch of stuff,
you know, going over the fence and in the fence.
So that's for the big animals. But I was, I was interested, or
I am interested in the smaller animals because like we know
deer, we know coyotes, we know they can all go go through the
fence. So I was kind of interested in
in in knowing. And when I say fence, it's like

(46:22):
it's, it's a wire fence, but below there's gaps that the
animals can cross. So deer and coyote can all go
under there. So big little holes too if they
don't fit too right. Yeah, exactly.
So I was kind of interested in knowing like the gap that's
there that we've kind of allowed, Is that promoting or
kind of hindering the movement of the smaller animals like the

(46:44):
deer and stuff. And we found that it isn't, I
mean, it's kind of obvious, you know, they can still go under
it. And we found that coyotes are
crossing the most under it. Deer are crossing it a lot so.
They can fit. Yeah, they can fit.

(47:04):
Yeah. It's like I think the openings
are like 2 to 3 feet from kind of ground up two to three feet,
so. And you can also jump pretty
high too. They can, they, they can, they
can jump really high. So yeah, like, like it was
interesting to look at all the pictures online and kind of

(47:29):
confirm like, yes, the fence isn't good for because you can
see, we can see a bunch of pictures of elk and bison that
they're, they're not crossing atall.
And they, they can't really cross at all.
Like, yes, it's not good for them.
But you know, Despite that, thisfence still allows some movement
of other animals under it. So it, it is, it's, it's, it has

(47:51):
its pros and cons. So yeah, that was, that was more
recently, that was last semester.
And now we're I'm working on it a little bit, working on it a
little bit more so. So the the smaller species like
the coyotes and even deer, it has no effect onto the way they

(48:13):
get around and their survivability.
Well, it's not that it it's not that it has no effect.
Like it's still a barrier. There's not always like not
every animal and and like it could sometimes it could just
literally be blocked off, you know, by, by a tree or something
or by another object. It's not that it doesn't do

(48:37):
anything for them. It's just that it doesn't hinder
it, it doesn't hinder their movement as much as we might
think that it does, if that makes if that makes sense.
Yeah. And there's also a lot of them
crossing the roads to hey, so that I could, did you guys take
that into account? No, no, we, we didn't.
We, we like, like, this is the, this will be the fence line.

(48:58):
And then you literally just put a camera here so you can see
exactly who's you can see still shots of who's going under the
fence and who's not so cool. Yeah.
Yeah, that's, yeah, that's it's crazy.
You can just do, you could do that on your own.
Hey, even without the the official kind of McEwan study.
Yeah. And yeah, that's just like

(49:20):
observations yourself, the, the nice thing, like it's, it's a
great experience, but it also it, it's also kind of like, it's
a really good thing to have on your CV too 'cause it, it is
like it is a class, but it's also showing that you've, you
know, that you've done some sortof research.
So I, I kind of had to, like my friend did it.

(49:42):
The, the, she, she was the one who did research.
She was the other student who she caught the pika or or pika
climbed on her on her hand. But she had done one of those
projects before on an on a different subject.
And she was like you, you shouldreally jump on it.
So oh. That's awesome.
Yeah, Yeah. So yeah.
What area of research and ecology or evolutionary biology

(50:04):
would you like to explore in thefuture?
Paleoanthropology. So that's, that's just
basically, basically the study of humankind through like
through the fossils. So like, like paleontology is
the study of animals with the fossils, but and then
anthropologist just applies it to humans.

(50:25):
But yeah, like I didn't, not until recently.
I'm I kind of, I didn't really know exactly what I wanted to
do. I do now.
Unfortunately there's just not alot in Canada for it at all.
So more than likely I'll have togo to a different like go

(50:51):
somewhere either in, in Canada or, or the states or or Europe
or something because there's just, there's just better, not
necessarily better like classes,but some of the facilities are
just a little bit. Is it because more bones are

(51:12):
found in the other countries or is it just the the schools or?
A lot of the from what I've found is a lot less, a lot less
universities in Canada do actuallike like have a portion of it

(51:34):
where you're actually going to Africa or something to dig,
which like that's what I want todo so.
Are the are all the bones going to be dug up one of these days?
Right? Because I I guess there's more
and more bones that get found. Do you think at one point we're

(51:54):
just going to find them all? No, because everything.
There's there's always stuff that's there's always, there's
always stuff that's dying. So yeah, that's fair.
I mean like like bones doesn't like fossils doesn't just mean
like every everything that comesto the surface like and you
know, and it's a bone, it's going to be a fossil.

(52:15):
But I mean to give an actual notsmart ass answer to your
question like. I would say I don't know 'cause
not. Everything fossilizes like not
every bone fossilizes. There's, you know, there's
erosion. I mean, Erosion's the main one,

(52:37):
but there's like. Erosion and then effects from
from rivers and and oceans and stuff like that, like.
Just because something dies and goes into the ground.
It doesn't mean it's going to fossilize, and then if it
fossilizes, it doesn't mean it'sgoing to be in one shape like.
Mammals for. Example like the very first

(53:00):
mammals for example, like I don't know couple. 100 million
years ago. Like they were, they're this
big, they're all all that tiny. So they're their, their jaws are
like the size of the jaws are the size of your fingernail.
So like, that's just one. Example of.
It's so small. If it gets churned and stuff
under the ground, it's odds are it's it might not not survive

(53:22):
and preserve. So, but I don't know.
I don't, I don't think so. It's it would just like we're
uncovering there's new species, we're uncovering new living
species every year and we're uncovering new species from
fossils every year. So it's I don't, I don't know.
There's just, there's just so many.

(53:43):
Sure. How do you think research and?
Ecology can contribute to conservation efforts and public
awareness about environmental issues.
Well, I think. A lot of the times.
I think First off making making research.

(54:04):
Open Access is important. Like I'm, I do, I, I do.
Research on. On.
You know what I'm interested in?And from what I found, it's
really annoying when you want toyou want to find an article
online to help you uncover a certain topic and you have to

(54:26):
pay for it. So I think making everything
Open Access is important, I think.
Like the language sometimes is just not very.
Good. It's just a lot of jargon and
stuff. So I feel like what I mean is a
lot. Of the times.

(54:47):
Like when you look in a. Scientific article it's.
Just, there's just language thatyou can't understand.
And like a lot of the like when I talk to other students, it's,
it's kind of like, oh, we'll just, you know, look, look, look
up what that means if you don't mean it, if you don't know what

(55:09):
it means. But a lot of people they don't
like, they don't have the patience for that, which kind of
stinks. But ultimately you have to make,
you have to make it easier, easier to understand, because if
people are trying to figure stuff out about like a
conservation initiative and theycan't understand it or it's just
too much like it, almost, it almost makes them feel it almost

(55:31):
makes you feel stupid. So yeah, nobody's reading like
A10 page. Paper with all these different
like the deep lingo. It's like my what is this one of
my I I can't understand the first paragraph.
Why? Why should I keep going?
So I think like I think Open Access.
And then easy to understand articles is is important, I
think as well as on top of that,like, I don't know, I feel like

(56:05):
the correct, we like you have totarget the correct audience.
I think that. Like, I don't, I don't think
there's a lot. Of, and I don't think there's
enough promotion of, of conservation outside of like
students and adults. Like I don't like usually when
there's scientific presentationswith, with kids, it's, you know,

(56:29):
it's chemical, chemical presentations.
Or if it's about, if it's about ecology, it's not usually about
conservation issues or climate change.
It's just, which is cool, but it's just, oh, we'll talk about
a certain animal. But I think I think it's really
important that we talk. To to.

(56:51):
To younger people about about conservation as well and educate
them on the fundamentals of evolution.
And I'll obviously be OK with obviously be OK with different
perspectives. But yeah, I think, I don't know.
It's, it's, I didn't. Understand.

(57:12):
I didn't know. I didn't really.
Understand conservation when it's when I was a young kid.
So I think it's a good idea if we can push that back at a
younger age instead of just, instead of just talking to
adults about it. Cuz I, we adults don't
understand it and there's and, but there are ways that we can
make kids understand it. Like not obviously not victim

(57:35):
blaming and saying, you know, even even even though a lot of.
Climate change is human caused, like making.
Sure that we're free, you know, making sure that we're framing
it not as it's like, oh, it's your fault to A to a young kid,
but just educating yeah 'cause like, I don't remember I.
Don't remember talking any. Anything about conservation in
the in the science curriculum? Yeah, until I've heard from your

(57:59):
high. Like ecological footprints, the
the elementary, but nothing really too, too deep.
Yeah, just kind of gave the general consensus, general.
Awareness. Yeah, yeah.
What do you think of the like talks about like bringing the
mammoth back through like general genetic modification?

(58:23):
You've you've heard of that? I think it's I I haven't really
looked into it much but. I think the, the idea of it is,
is is really cool. I think another, I don't know if
they've they've got any new, like if they've recovered, I
don't think they've recovered any new species or brought any,

(58:44):
you know, brought any species back.
But there's, I think in Russia, there's like a, a Pleistocene
park, which is kind of, they have this kind of area where
they're, they're dedicating it to kind of the ecology of the
Pleisocene, which was millions of years ago.
So like having make having a bunch of animals that are living

(59:06):
today that are, that were livingback then and like kind of
having them having them in theretogether, which is cool.
But I don't know, I think I think the mammoth thing is
awesome. I don't.
I think it's it's mammoths. Are really closely related to
elephants, right. So I think they're just mating,
getting an elephant, mating it with something else or just

(59:28):
trying to get the elephant's DNAand just tweaking it to match a
mammoths. Yeah.
It's really just sick, crazy, man.
I didn't think of like dinosaurs, though.
You think would you would you want them back?
Jurassic Park, I mean. Like you're talking like the the
the T rex's and all that stuff. Yeah, dude.

(59:50):
I mean, I don't. Know they they.
Take they they would take up so much of our resources.
They would. I don't think, I don't think
people understand that. Like the zoos and everything.
Yeah, yeah. And feeding them whole cows and
everything. Yeah, they eat or they ate.
So much like already with elephants and stuff.
Yeah, did I'm over then I've. Watched all the Jurassic Parks

(01:00:11):
and I know, I know what happens.Nice.
Yeah, dude, heavy metal. In music, that's a.
Big passion to yours as well. How did you first get into heavy
metal and what are some of your favorite bands or sub genres?
So I would say. I would say like like metal's

(01:00:37):
kind of a you could call metal kind of like.
Evolve, you metal. Evolve from.
Hard Rock, so like starting to listen to Hard Rock and stuff
like that was, I don't know, early for.
Me like Led Zeppelin and. Stuff like that.

(01:00:57):
But Black Sabbath was big for sure.
Because they were. Like an earlier an earlier.
Band A very influential on otherbands, but right now it's like
Iron Maiden and. Rush.
They're not. Rush isn't really.

(01:01:17):
Rush isn't. Really metal, but like Maiden
and I like Jews, Priest, I like British, like British 80s metal
is really good. But like I'll listen to
Metallica and stuff like that aswell.
Yeah, they were just here in Edmonton.
Yeah, I didn't. Get to.
I didn't get to go. Dude, I heard it was crazy, man.
Yeah, it's. Like a four day Bender.

(01:01:38):
Yeah, yeah, I'm quite upset I didn't get to.
Go. Maybe some other time, though.
Yeah, they'll come back one of these days.
Yeah, I don't know Edmonton's. Interesting because.
It's it's not like. Whenever bands come, it's
they're for sure going to, they're going to Vancouver,
they're going to go to Toronto and Montreal and like maybe

(01:01:59):
Edmonton. So I don't know, like I saw, I
saw Iron Maiden, that was like adream.
I saw them like 22 I think two years ago at Rogers and that was
amazing. But they hadn't come here for
like 15 years, I think. So I don't know.
You just got Edmonton's just, you just have to have it perfect

(01:02:21):
if you're going to be able to goto a, for me at least if you're
going to go to like in Edmonton,if you're going.
To a band you really want to. See, you just have to pray that
they're going to come because, Idon't know, hit or miss, yeah.
But what? About the that.
Genre that really resonates withyou like do do you listen to it
on the way to the class hypes you up or work out or listen I I

(01:02:44):
mean I listen to it if I'm. Listening to music, I'm
listening to that. So yeah, I do like, I do like
other music, but I don't listen when it's just myself.
I don't listen to stuff. Stuff outside of metal working
out on the way like in the car, everything.

(01:03:07):
Not I can't do. I just I can't do.
Like, can't really do lyrics andstudying.
That's the only thing. But yeah, I'm, I'm always
listening to it. Yeah, I went through a little.
You know, Hard Rock, heavy metalphase, and I was listening to
songs like Down with the Sickness.
Yeah, I just felt so revved up. That's yeah, that's what I

(01:03:30):
think. I think that's what.
Like resonates with me. I I don't know there's it's just
it's loud and it's fast and likethe vocals are just St. they're
not always like super, you know,growly not I I think that's a
that's a misconception that people have about it.

(01:03:50):
But like the vocals are are amazing.
They're always they're super. The guys sing super, super high.
Some some bands I know the musicis very.
Like, elaborate. Yeah.
Yeah. Like a lot of people seem to
think that it's not as well developed because it's, like,
loud and it's just still over the place.

(01:04:12):
But when you look into it, it's actually like a really hard like
genre to be able to master, to learn the songs well, if you
think about it like it. Like, like it takes, for me, it
takes talent to compose a song that's loud and like, like a
heavy metal song that is loud and that sounds good because you

(01:04:35):
can make, you can make songs that are loud, but they just
sound like shit. So like, yeah, a lot goes into.
It and. It's.
Like, I don't know, like a. Lot of those guitar.
Lex riffs man is just so I know so intricate yeah like how how
is how are you going that fast? I know, yeah, I play.

(01:04:58):
I play bass guitar. But I would.
Never. I would, I would never play
guitar. It's just it's it would just be
it, it would just be too overwhelming.
There's six strings and there's just millions that you can play
bass. There's a lot of things you can
play on bass, but there's only four strings.
And yeah, I don't know. I I feel like.

(01:05:19):
I don't know, it's just bass is just easy for me.
So I would guitars, guitars, a feat that I don't think I'd ever
go to. I find bass makes up.
A song that like makes up like the, like the potatoes of the
song, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bass and drums. Just like you feel that shock in
the, the heart. Yeah.

(01:05:41):
I feel that vibration that always make gets me, gets me
revved up. Agreed.
Agreed. Do you think there's a
connection between science and music, especially in terms of
how both involve patterns, structures and deep exploration?
Bit of a stretch. Bit of a bit of a bit of a
stretch. I mean they both like, I don't

(01:06:06):
know. They're both methodical, like
science. They both have a method to them
and kind of a they're they're constructed and well constructed
music more, but it's they both kind of follow a, you know, a
method and a lay and a layout and you know.
Science has. You can kind of think of you can

(01:06:27):
think of the genres you. Know we can kind of think of of
them. They might have a common
ancestor somewhere that was, youknow, early flutes or something
like that. That might be a stretch as
that's the total stretch. That could be a research study.
Maybe, Yeah, yeah. So.
That portion, I think we both we, we like to kind of group.

(01:06:54):
In science and. And well, humans as a whole, we
like to put stuff in boxes, which is sometimes good,
sometimes not good, but like we put them into genres and stuff,
music genres, and then like, youknow, categorized species and
stuff and different things of science.
I. Honestly don't know DID.

(01:07:14):
What sucks about studying evolution right as you in the
music part, there's there's no save button.
There's no like residue of the music musical talents back
2,000,000 years ago. I bet you there was, man.
But you there's just some guy inthe tribe like a couple of
strings and he just knows how tojust tread.

(01:07:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, man, technology is always
evolving. So maybe we'll we'll find
something some some link. Exactly, man.
Yeah, yeah. But.
Yeah, I know. It's like the way we we always
organize everything into like certain slots, whether it be

(01:07:58):
like science or music, and then it gets into these these
categories. Or it's like, how do you even?
Differentiate that, yeah. And then there's like the whole
categorization, I know it and and there's a higher, there's a.
Hierarchical thing about it likelike ranking and and and stuff
and it's like I. Don't know it goes.

(01:08:22):
It goes back to to. To.
I don't know if it's just if youcan if.
You rank something at least in, in, in science and stuff,
ranking something, then you can just justify one thing's better
than the other. And and I mean, I don't, I try
not to think about like think about it like that.
When I'm like it, it's easy to, you know, categorize.

(01:08:48):
Oh. This group has.
This group has. Tools, let's put them all into
here. This group doesn't have tools.
All the group with tools is better now it's like, not like
that, but yeah. If you could design A research
study. In the psychological or cultural
effects of metal music, what would you focus on?

(01:09:16):
Probably like that's a tough question.
I don't even remember. I don't even remember the
answer. I put on the questions, I don't
know, it'd be cool to like see how it would be cool to see how
people react to it and to compare that to kind of other
music. Not saying it, you know, might

(01:09:37):
get similar results, might get different results, but like it'd
be cool to kind of just see, youknow, take a bunch of.
People make them all listen. To the same music and and kind
of see how how you know neural travel neurotransmitters are are
moving and stuff again, I don't know yeah and then you put Jack
shit about that. Stuff, Yeah, you put dopamine.
Levels when it fluctuates. There you go.

(01:09:59):
Yeah, yeah, with. Music, hey.
It's so subjective because like one person may like jazz and
another person may like Taylor Swift and it's like one person
could be subjected to country and it'd be torture.
One could it would be their saving grace.
Like I wonder how we evolved from that and like, what's where

(01:10:22):
did we disperse? Like was it like you could argue
that all culturally growing up, that's what your parents heard.
But then then you when you keep digging, it's like, oh, that's
what their parents heard and maybe their peers.
But then there, there was alwayslike a source, like a, a root
like within music. And the more you kind of

(01:10:42):
correlate both of them, it's like you'll find, you will find
something. And I wonder what it is 'cause
we're always what the way thingshave been is there.
It always starts off with one singular focal point.
And then as time progresses, right?
Whether it be evolution, music, block gaming, you know, there's,

(01:11:07):
we just disperse into all these different branches to a point
where the people in those sectors don't have no idea where
it where that field was 100 years back.
Yeah. And like, even with the like
with evolution, with we know, sure, we know Charles Darwin,

(01:11:28):
but before that there was already somebody that's
established that. And he's just, he's just well
known for it, right. But even then, I'd say maybe
1000 years later, like maybe we'll forget Charles Darwin.
It'll be replaced by someone else.
Yeah. I think that's, I think that's a
that's. One of the reasons like why I

(01:11:49):
like science so much is is. Like it's good to be.
Proven wrong and it's good. Yeah.
I mean it would be. If you know if if something.
Replaced the, I'm going to be honest, it would take a, it
would take a fuck ton to replacekind of the foundations of, of

(01:12:11):
evolutionary biology. I don't know, it might happened.
It would take a lot. But I think one of the beauties
of, of science is that it's always changing and there's
always, you know, ideas are always getting replaced and, you
know, a core idea that's, you know, been at the base of, of,
of something might be replaced. In in a few years or.

(01:12:33):
Might be replaced, you know, next week.
Do you remember when people were?
Or adults were telling you to stay away from the microwave or
don't put your phone underneath your bed or underneath your
pillow. Like now.
I don't hear anyone say that Nowit's all about the, the
microplastics. It now it's all about the the

(01:12:54):
carcinogens in the in the air from like the the toxins, right.
And maybe you'll be debunked, you know, Yeah, who knows?
But there's all these things that growing up and even the
with the food that culturally, like a lot of my growing up, my
family always told me to to eat all my food because there's kids

(01:13:15):
in Africa starving. Now.
I don't really hear that anymorebecause obesity rates have gone
up so high that no, no, no, it'snot that kids are starving
anymore. You should stop eating 'cause
they're, they're dying of obesity.
You know, like it's, it's stuff like that where it's like as you
move throughout the year, something gets disproven and
something comes into play. But then ten years later, the

(01:13:39):
thing that was disproven was actually proven back again.
And the one that was establishedactually ends up being the one
that's not Well, I think it's even just cool.
Like it's not just science. Like he'd like the, like,
sayings that like things that people say, like Riz.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Cultural. Changes.
Yeah, I was. I'm I'm always hesitant.
Until using those words that getacclimated.

(01:14:00):
But yeah, but then there's no other way to describe kind of
how things go, you know, becauseeverybody's.
It's just locked into my vocab because I hear all my buddies
say it. I'm like, OK, Riz, I know when
swag was the thing and I was in like grade.
I know there's, there's there's,there's stuff like.
Like there's stuff like dab, like like that's still in your

(01:14:22):
vocabulary. You don't say it ever, but it's
still there that like wheels. Remember that.
Like, bro, he's got, he's got, he's got a square wheels.
I remember there's this kid. Man that like flirted.
With all the chicks in our classand constantly got rejected and
everybody would say he had square wheels format or like
when people when when when. People were like, not at the

(01:14:43):
relationship, but they had a thing.
Oh yeah. I'm like what the where did
this? Who?
Made this man yeah talk dude, it's such good times Remember
what like for a TBH remember that was a thing dude like what
the fuck would like see you around the halls you know the

(01:15:06):
11:00 and all that shit. I never talked to you, like, for
a rate like, what the fuck? Where did this come from?
Yeah, and apparently they don't do that anymore.
Oh, it's like. One of my one of my buddies
posted in like an Instagram picture.
Like at the end he put a screenshot of one of those.
Like like for an like for an emoji that's so funny.

(01:15:29):
Or like fucking streaks. Dude, remember that when people
would just send a picture and write.
Streaks. Yeah, like what was that?
Man, the obsession with streaks I think that was.
I, I reflected. On that one day, and I think it
was because we wanted to feel included and that was this was
like the more streaks you had, the more friends you had, even

(01:15:50):
though you'd never talk to them.It's like, yeah, the only the
only word that you have between you 2.
Is streaks streaks. You see them in the hallways you
guys have. A you guys have a 400 day
streak, but you've never said a word to them.
It's like what the yeah, yeah. No, I, I Oh man, I.
I totally remember that stuff. Yeah, it's crazy.
It's. And it's kind of, it's kind of.
Cool, when you get older you just there's not like a.

(01:16:14):
Like I didn't think about stopping to do streaks I.
Just did it yeah, you just, you just kind of grow out of it
that. Right.
Like what was it was cool back then.
Everybody was doing it then. Now it's like you're degenerate
if you if you do that stuff morethan that, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I did, but yeah, man, that's
thank you so much for horse coming on the long term podcast.

(01:16:35):
I, I find all this stuff interesting.
If you ever want to come back whenever these days you want to
talk about evolution. And I'll, I'll brush up on my,
on my, on the theories that thatI learned and read some more,
more books about it of that stuff, man, Yeah.
But yeah. Thank you again.

(01:16:56):
I appreciate you it as always toeveryone listening and watching.
There is a place free in this chaotic world.
Never lose hope. Strengthen your faith and keep
it long term. Jack Elliott, everyone.
Peace. Wait.

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#119 - Jack Elliot - How does Evolutionary Biology Shape the World Around You?

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#119 - Jack Elliot - How does Evolutionary Biology Shape the World Around You?