#134 - Dinkar Pathak - This Is What Separates Top Closers from Everyone Who Gives Up

Dinkar Pathak is a high-ticket sales consultant and University of Alberta graduate who has carved a unique path through grit, persistence, and self-awareness. From grinding in 100% commission roles to leading a residential solar sales team, Dinkar’s journey has been fueled by a desire to understand people and push past his limits. In this conversation, we’ll dive into three key areas that have shaped both his career and personal philosophy: the art and science of sales, the role of psychology in performance and communication, and the deeper pursuit of self-mastery.

Dinkar’s entry into sales was born out of necessity—after trying various business models without success, he realized he needed to master the skill that underpinned them all: selling. His first major leap came with a commission-only role at Telus, which not only sharpened his skillset but also opened doors to working with online coaches and higher-ticket offerings. Now managing a solar sales team, he breaks down the sales process into clear phases: prospecting, qualifying, presenting, handling objections, and closing. He emphasizes that objections are not rejections, but opportunities to clarify and serve—using techniques like ART and FFFT. For beginners, frameworks like PSTT provide solid structure, but ultimately what separates a great salesperson is integrity and a sincere drive to help clients, not just land deals.

While Dinkar’s academic background in psychology offered a foundational understanding, he’s quick to point out that real growth came from action—not theory. He likens sales to applied psychology in the same way physics applies math. His on-the-ground experience helped him internalize psychological principles, allowing him to adapt and communicate more effectively in real time. On a more personal level, he’s faced emotional and mental hurdles, including loneliness and breakups, which have taught him that life’s challenges aren’t setbacks, but setups. With a mindset shift—from victimhood to ownership—he’s been able to grow through adversity rather than be crushed by it.

Dinkar believes that lasting success stems from mastering oneself. He follows a holistic framework based on the “6 Pillars of Life” he learned from his mentors at Legacy: Spiritual, Emotional, Mental, Physical, and Social wellbeing (SEMPS). By intentionally working on each of these dimensions, he creates a life that’s not only high-performing but deeply fulfilling. Through MetaSociety, he shares these tools with others looking to master not just their craft—but themselves.

Dinkar Pathak’s journey is a testament to the power of applied learning, relentless self-improvement, and the willingness to serve others with integrity. Whether you're looking to up your sales game, strengthen your mindset, or build a life of purpose, his story offers a blueprint grounded in action and alignment.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Yeah, welcome to the Long Term Podcast.
Let's go. Yeah.
Excited so. What first drew you to high
ticket sales, and how did you land your first client's ordeal?
So I was, you know, playing around with these online
business models for a while. You know, you have all these
like online business gurus teachyou like SMMA social media

(00:20):
marketing agencies, right? Or software as a service.
I was trying to do affiliate marketing.
I actually create a meme page aswell to a couple 1000 followers.
So I was trying all of these different business models, but I
wasn't really making any money, right?
So that got me to kind of introspect and, you know,
figured out where am I going wrong?
Like I'm doing exactly what they're telling me to do.

(00:43):
Like the fulfillment side of my business is sorted out, but I'm
not able to get clients. And that's kind of when it
clicked and I'm like, I need to learn sales.
I'm actually terrible at sales, right?
Which is what most people are like when they get into
business, right? They, they think that, oh, just
because I, I have a business idea, I can make a lot of money.

(01:03):
That's not really true because the money is made when the
customers come into the business, right, which is sales.
So once I kind of knew I needed to learn sales, I was like, OK,
how do I learn sales, right? And like with any other skill,
you learn it by practicing it, right?
So I was like, how do I practiceit, right?
And I had some buddies that weredoing 100% Commission based

(01:27):
sales job with Telus, knocking on strangers doors, selling them
Telus products and services. And it was kind of crazy, but it
got me excited because I'm like,hey, Telus is a multi billion
dollar company, right? They have customers buying their
stuff every single day. If I can plug myself into that
process, I can get trained on sales, I can practice sales.

(01:48):
And once I have those skills, plus a little bit of money saved
up, then I'm in a position to actually go start a business and
be successful, right? So that's all I did.
Like these 100% Commission basedjobs that are always hiring
because they pay you only when you get a close deal, right?
But they're more than happy to bring on people, right?
So yeah, from there, just applied for the Telus job, got

(02:11):
started. And then after that I moved
into, you know, higher ticket products.
I started working with online coaches to sell coaching,
mentorship courses, things like that.
And then currently right now I'mmanaging a solar sales team.
So we sell solar panels residentially.
And so that's kind of my story in short.

(02:32):
Well, yeah, full Commission, right?
And sales it, you hear so many times from people that that's
where the money's at, right? But it's also the highest kind
of one of the highest job turnover rates.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not for everyone.
Yeah, it's kind of crazy. But like you gravitated towards

(02:53):
building a business and wanting to make a name for yourself,
right? And yeah, just going about
things Why? Like you, it's just because
you've always wanted to as a kidbecause it taught by your
parents I. Think more than like creating a
name for myself. For me, it was always about

(03:13):
gaining freedom, right? I am not the kind of guy that
likes taking orders, You know, Idon't want to ask when I can eat
lunch, right? I don't want to ask, oh, it's my
sister's wedding. I need a couple days off, things
like that. They honestly, they really piss
me off and they hit me really deep.
And I'm like, no, I want a life of freedom, right?
I want to be able to do what I want to do with the people I

(03:36):
want to do it with anytime I want, right?
So that kind of freedom, it's really hard to build in like
typical 9 to 5 jobs, pretty muchimpossible, right?
So I knew I had to like build a business.
That was the only way I could build a life of freedom.
And the other thing with Commission based, when you're
building a business, it is Commission based, right?

(03:56):
Like a business only makes moneywhen they get a customer, right?
So, you know, if you're an entrepreneur, nobody's giving
you a base salary. So I was already on board with
100% Commission and I saw this as a stepping stone to get me
where I wanted to go. I'm like, awesome, let's do it.
A lot of a lot of people say that 9 to fives are you're

(04:18):
shackle down right and you need to ask your boss for vacation
days and you just whenever you know to do something yourself,
you need to always ask for permission.
Right. But I'd argue that that actually
takes less work. Yes, it's less freedom, but I

(04:39):
think for building a for building a business, you are
working way more now. I like with, I've had my
experience with door to door as well for yeah, we were on the
phone with it, talking about it for a little bit and I was there
for two weeks. And I know what it's like to put
yourself out there. And I've talked to the guys that

(05:02):
have started this, the business,and it's immensely tough on the
mind. Absolutely, yeah.
I would much rather just work a nine to five than actually put
myself. Up there, absolutely.
Each to their own right? It's pros and cons.
Right, Yeah. But how, how do you deal with
the the mental fatigue and the the strain, right.
Because you have to go through constant rejection, putting

(05:23):
yourself out there because. Absolutely.
With prior to sales, you said you were into creating your own
brand. You even had a meme page, you
said? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was trying a bunch of
different business models. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. And so when you go about these
businesses as well, now you're constantly talking to other
people and putting yourself out there.

(05:44):
And there's like, there's that other side of us that goes, oh,
man, like, yeah, they thinking, yeah, this is cringy.
Like I'm not, who am I, Right? What am I?
What am I doing? Yeah.
How do you battle that? Yeah.
Well, the two things that come to mind for that first, am I
allowed to swear here? Yeah, you can swear.
Yeah. Well, the truth is nobody gives
a fuck about you, bro, honestly,like straight up, nobody gives a

(06:06):
fuck about you. It's all in your head, right?
We, we think we're so important.And the truth is everybody
thinks that way, right? Everybody has themselves at this
as the center of the stage in their story, right?
So often times when you know you're overthinking and you're
like, oh, like that was kind of clingy or I shouldn't have said

(06:26):
that. Like 90% of people didn't even
register it, right? They didn't even think about it.
And the ones that did, it was kind of in one year out the
other and they were back to thinking about themselves,
right? So bottom line is, honestly,
nobody cares. And then the second thing, like
it's on you to chase the dreams that you want to achieve, right?
It's like, yeah, I want all these great things, but it comes

(06:50):
with a price tag. And the price tag is hard work
rejection, right? And if you're not willing to pay
the price, you can't have the things that you want to have.
And on the other hand, if you'rewilling to pay the price,
there's nothing stopping you, right?
So it's just getting really dialed in and knowing what you
want and knowing what you're willing to do to get it right.

(07:11):
Does that make sense? Yeah.
Have you always had that mindsetthough?
Because it I can tell you're a person that has gone through
copious amounts of rejection, right?
Being in sales for how many years now?
Three years? Three years.
Yeah, so we have a saying in sales, no matter how good you
get, nose are always part of thegame.

(07:31):
They're not going to sell everybody.
People are going to say no, it'sjust part of it.
Yeah. How do you not take it
personally though? You know, like I, I feel like,
like when you're in sales, like negative interactions just are
rampant. They're they're abundant, right?
You need. I don't know, man.
I've reached a point where I just find it funny.
Yeah, yeah, it's all yells at meand they're like, get out of

(07:52):
here. I don't want anything to do with
this. I just find it funny.
I'm like, damn, you must be having a bad day to yell at a
stranger. Yeah, yeah.
The other thing is half the time, like the reject, rejection
is truly not personal. Like, they're not personally
telling no to you, right? They might be saying no to the
product, the company. They might just be busy.

(08:13):
They might be in the middle of something.
They don't have the capacity to hear you out.
Like very rarely is it personal.And even then, it's like, well,
they just know me based off of this one interaction.
They don't really know who I am on a deeper level.
So how could they reject it? Yeah, that's something that is.
Yeah. Told to so many people, but

(08:34):
yeah, I can tell you've actuallyinternalized this after three
years, right? Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you remind yourself of this
every day, or is it just something that you don't You
don't? Mind myself, How so?
Like, oh, this, this person thatI interacted with knocked on
their door and they told me to fuck off, right?
I and you tell yourself, oh, that person's probably going

(08:54):
through something. They're probably.
So I think when you're new, you need to have a positive self
talk and you need to consciouslykeep brushing that rejection off
and reminding yourself. But after I I'd say like the
four to six month mark, that's where things kind of just click
and it starts becoming who you are and you realize it's not a
big deal. And so for me right now, I don't

(09:17):
really have to remind myself it's just, yeah, it's part of
it. I'm like whatever, doesn't
matter. How do you think this has helped
you in the other facets of your life?
Sales or just the rejection thing?
Both. Yeah, because sales applies to
everything in life. Like honestly, I don't know how
people get through life without having sales abilities because

(09:38):
everything is sales. Like if you want to ask a girl
out like that sales, right? If you want to get a promotion
at work, that is sales. If you, I don't know, you want
to convince your friend that pineapple and pizzas are tasty,
that sales like everything in life is pretty much just sales,
right? With rejection, I think when you

(09:58):
have that tough skin belt and you're able to handle rejection,
it just opens so many more opportunities for you, right?
You know, like I used to be pretty shy with putting myself
out there, especially on social media, but now I really don't
care, right? And that opens up so many more
connections, so many more opportunities.
I mean, that's How I Met you andhere we are, right?

(10:20):
So it just it it, it clicks in and it applies to pretty much
everything. Yeah, kind of that exposure
therapy, like the more you do it, just the things that your
mind adapts to it and it becomesthe norm.
Like when I was posting podcastsinitially.
Yeah, it's like, why would why would people listen to me,

(10:41):
right? I don't what do I have to say?
But over time, right, it's just,it just becomes normal.
It's like just eating. Yeah, it.
Becomes who you are. Yeah, like intermittent fasting,
right. Like a lot of people go up to me
and they go, how can you not eatfor 1620 hours for like a full
day and you're still fine. It's like, yeah, it's just I've
adapted to it and anyone can, you can, you can just build

(11:02):
exactly a mind, body, soul that is strengthened through
repetition. Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, like you're pretty well built.
Like, thank you, bro. All of this stuff is exactly
like working out and exercising,right when you first get to the
gym, it's it takes a lot of motivation and discipline to get
yourself there. It's painful.

(11:23):
You don't really enjoy the process.
You have to kind of force yourself to do it.
But like I'm sure you know this like one or two years into
hitting the gym consistently, you're like, I love the gym,
Like I feel shitty if I miss going to the gym, right?
I should just becomes who you are and becomes easy.
Yeah, dude, yeah. I can't imagine a day without
the gym, you know what I mean? Yeah.
It's just like so ingrained intothe lifestyle.

(11:46):
It's like, how do you even go about sales without this mental
framework that you have, right? You've built it so much that you
just knock on a door, you make the phone call and it just flows
exactly you. You already have the pattern
recognition to know, Oh, that's that's probably a buyer.
Oh, oh, that's, you know, I should probably arrest from that

(12:07):
injury. But had you never done it?
Because you're so, you know, fixated on what other people are
going to think and what you're about to, you know, do what why
this? Why this?
Like there's negative thoughts that can be discarded that have
no net benefit to you. And then there's things like
just doing it. Yeah.

(12:28):
Exactly. Just do it because I I've always
been a really big overthinker. Like in school I minor in
philosophy. Like philosophy is just
overthinking for pages and pagesand pages.
So I've always been the kind of guy to get stuck in my thoughts.
But what's really helped me is just understanding that just
take action, right? Action solves all your

(12:49):
overthinking. Just do it.
That's it, yeah. It's like, when are you like, I
get this thought too, where I'llget a text and then I'll, I'll
there'll be a little bit of friction, right?
I'll reply in 30 seconds and then it builds up more and more
and the next thing you know, to just reply, you know, or it's
like scheduling time with that, with that friend or that

(13:12):
colleague, right? It's like now you've now you've
built it up to this thing that is enormous when really it could
have taken you a couple minutes.Yeah.
And it's just just do it. Yeah, just do it.
Exactly. Actually, since you've done a
little bit of door to door, you might understand this.
Like that first door of the day,right?
You can really get stuck in yourhead when you knew you're like,

(13:34):
Oh my God, like they're going toyell at me.
Oh, I don't want to do this, right?
What if they say this? What if they say that, that I
don't know this thing about my product yet?
What if they asked me about that, right?
And you can get really stuck up in your head.
But the solution to it is where you just go knock that first
door and be willing to burn it, right?
Just get the momentum going. Just get started by taking

(13:55):
action. And then the second door just
becomes easier. The third one becomes even
easier, right? And then next thing you know,
you're in a flow state, you're having fun, you're talking to
people, you're brushing off rejection, and maybe you're
getting a sale, right? Yeah, Yeah.
So yeah, just. Take action yeah and you learn
so much too, like not only are you becoming more wealthy in

(14:16):
regards to just money, right andin regards to just the way
things are in households and like, oh what a what does a
happy person look like? Or what is that like a household
that seems intact, right? And you could really tell the
people that have their shit together, right, versus the
people that don't. And just through the copious

(14:37):
amounts of doors that you go through the day, you kind of
envision kind of what the life that you want.
I don't know, maybe maybe I'm just overthinking it.
Absolutely. You get to see the whole
spectrum, right? People with happy families,
people with terrible relationships, people that have
an organized, well kept home versus people with a messy
house. How happy do the two look?

(14:57):
You know you can. You can tell everything and you
can decide what kind of life do you want to live.
Yeah, I've heard the psychologist say that your house
is the state of your house is a predictor for how you feel about
yourself and how things are going on in your life.
Yeah, right. You can little peek in the
living room and you just know. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. How many doors do you think

(15:18):
you've knocked over the three years?
I've never done the math, but a bunch.
A bunch for sure. Yeah, let's get a week.
Let's say a week. Well, so when you knew you end
up going through more doors because you're having shorter
conversations, then once you start, you know, getting better,
you're having longer conversations and it's fewer
doors. So for my first year, I probably

(15:39):
was doing like 50 doors a day. Right now it's more like I don't
really knock on doors anymore. I just go to appointments.
You're the manager now, right? So I'm managing A-Team too.
So yeah, I don't really maybe like 5 doors now a day and
usually I'll still get one appointment out of that.
But for the last last summer I was working, I was doing maybe

(15:59):
like 2020, thirty doors a day. Yeah.
Then my first summer like 50. So I don't know if you could do
the math on that. A lot of doors.
For many years, right? Yeah.
When still when it's -32. No, not really, no.
Usually in the summer then. Yes, pretty much because it's
like you make good enough money.Like I don't need to put myself

(16:21):
through that. Like if I want, I could.
Yeah, There are people that do it if they need to, but for the
most part we work in the summer months.
Yeah. What do you think is the the
best interaction you've had? The first thing that comes to
mind? On your experience, there are
quite a few. I'd say the top ones are where

(16:42):
the family just feeds me dinner and yeah, I'm just.
When you knock on the door, the interaction is so good.
And you guys are having dinner? Yeah.
Well, I mean, like, you know, with Telus, I used to sell
security systems, right? So I'm literally protecting the
family from break insurance fromfires and getting them a bunch
of smart home gadgets. And it's a really good deal.
And some people, they're just sograteful.

(17:04):
They offer you a glass of water,you ask for a glass of juice,
maybe next thing they're feedingyou.
That's awesome, man. And with solar it happens even
more cuz you see the family multiple times right?
These are, you know, $30,000 deals.
It's not like a quick thing, right?
So you're building a relationship anyway.
And summer time, they always offer you food, right?

(17:25):
Yeah, yeah. So those are those are the
favorite ones for sure. Yeah, I've heard that the best
investment that you could have is relationships with people
like keeping it long term with people.
That's when they come back and then they tell their friends
versus if you, you know, half asset and you don't really, you
know, leave an impact. Yeah, then they're they don't

(17:47):
remember you and in fact, they're just gonna you know what
separates you from the other person.
It's like, no, you actually carelike for for them to actually
invite you to their table makes.Yeah, well, they can.
They can tell I'm not just therefor the Commission.
I'm there to serve them and helpthem.
And they can feel that, like I want to help this guy back.
Yeah. Right.
Yeah, we can. I think we can detect that.

(18:08):
Hey, I don't know. It's like intuition.
Like, I can't, I can't quite explain it, man.
But like, you can tell when somebody's just got like a good
heart, right? Like, yes, they're trying to
make a living, but they're trying to.
Help In sales, we call it Commission breath because it's
like a bad breath. You know when you have a bad
breath, you can't smell it, but everybody around you knows it's
kind of the same thing. When you're in your head, you're

(18:29):
just trying to get your Commission.
They people can sense that off you, right?
Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's like that guy
who's like, really desperate, right?
I just really want this girl. Want that.
Exactly. And then of course, he chased
the. Yeah, he chased him away.
Yeah, it's a creepy guy in the bar who's like, kind of tapping
on every girl's shoulder and just being like, you know,
trying to get some pussy. Yeah, yeah.

(18:50):
True, there's this quote of it'snot quite the exact one, but
chase the butterfly, you the butterfly runs away.
Build a beautiful garden and butterfly has come to you And
like, well, with sales like of course, you're going up to them
and you're you're trying to talkto them into buying your own.
Product, but who? Who has the problem?
Though, Yeah, yeah. But like, they usually right.

(19:13):
If you build kind of an arsenal within your the way you talk and
the way you carry yourself, people just flock to you.
And if you, you know, if you come by and.
Yeah, the. Authenticity.
Well, yeah, The thing is truth is they are the ones with the
problem, right? Sure you want your Commission,
you need to make money, but let's, you know, get ourselves

(19:33):
out of our head and look at the situation objectively.
Who has the problem? It's the it's your prospect that
has the problem, right. So if you can be the one with
the solution, right, and you canbe in a kind of a detached kind
of way of carrying yourself, butit's like, I still have value to
provide. And yeah, that all these sales
tactics you're doing, but you'rementally detached because, you

(19:55):
know, if not this person, the next person's going to buy,
right? That makes people flock to you
because they're the ones with the problem anyway.
It's always the question of whatdo I have to offer others versus
how do I get rich or how do I get this girl to like me or how
do I, what do I offer that's valuable, that people can make

(20:16):
their lives better? If you answer that question and
it actually works, then you're going to be very, very wealthy.
Yeah. But if you go, yeah, how can I,
how can I cheat, lie and, and like, no, you're, it's short
term. Eventually you're going to be
caught and you're going to lose it all because usually it's a
scam. You're lying to yourself.
Exactly. Yeah.
And, you know, in sales, we havea lot of sketchy people that are

(20:39):
trying to, you know, push the line and it's all gravy and
stuff. Those kind of people, they never
stick the long term, right? Because in the short term, you
can get away, you know, doing unethical things, but in the
long term, it's not going to work, right?
People catch on to it, right? Yeah.
I see that with friendships, right, with people that are

(20:59):
jumping from relationship to relationship, with people that
get really invigorated at the start with the gym and then then
they quit. You see that?
Yeah. And sales where it's like, yeah,
they have so much energy and drive, but the reasons are wrong
or they just don't stick at it for the long term.
And usually like usually the theerrors that they make are not

(21:20):
finding who they truly are, not treating people better.
Yeah, it's definitely a part of it, yeah.
So can you walk us through your typical client process from
first contact to closing the sale?
So, you know, sales and tractions, they always have a
similar flow. And I would argue it actually

(21:41):
starts before the first contact,right?
With this thing called prospecting, right?
So when you're prospecting, you're trying to gather as much
information as possible before you even start a conversation,
right? So when we go door knocking, for
example, we have logged pins of people that knocked that
neighborhood before. So you're able to see, OK, who's

(22:04):
a renter, who's a home owner whoisn't a qualified prospect
anyway, right of example, if I'mtalking to a home owner, they're
not qualified, I can still ask them about rest of the
neighborhood and gather information about all the other
people that they know, right? And the more information you
have, the more you're able to kind of tailor your pitch when
you talk to them, right? So the sales process, it starts

(22:27):
first with prospecting. The very next thing you want to
do is when you talk to the prospect, you want to make sure
they're qualified, right? So you would ask questions that
tell you if you're talking to the right person, right?
Often times they're not the decision maker.
Often times the product isn't a good fit for them and you want
to figure that out as soon as possible so that you don't waste

(22:49):
time doing a full presentation with them.
Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah.
So now if you have gathered information and they are a
qualified prospect, that's when you can move on to doing your
presentation. Right?
Now in the presentation you wantto build this thing called a
gap, right? The gap it's built by you know,

(23:10):
highlighting the prospects current position and the desired
position, right? And your product is going to
fill that gap, right? So in the presentation you want
to get very clear and help the prospect understand that the gap
exists, right? So this is done in three main
ways. One, it's by building pain
around the current situation, right?

(23:31):
Highlighting all the problems that they have and also building
value around the product and highlighting the desired
position by painting pictures, right?
You know, in sales we say, you know, features tell, but
benefits sell, right? You don't want to be like, for
example, this camera, right? You could say, oh, it's like 4K

(23:56):
and it's got these features and that features right?
Or you could say that you know this gets you the best quality
video with the shortest amount of storage, for example.
I'm just making stuff up. Yeah.
No, but it works exactly. It actually is relevant to you
that versus the other ones just you're just spouting out.
Like features. Yeah, yeah, It's like a list of

(24:17):
features that isn't going to persuade anyone into doing
anything, right? You need to paint pictures.
You need to get them to imagine themselves actually using it,
right? So this is all done in the
presentation. And then typically the prospect
is gonna have some objections, right?
So the next phase is to handle the objections.
Once the objections are handled,you close the deal, do the

(24:38):
paperwork, get the job done, right?
So that's what the typical salesprocess looks like.
When you start selling like really high ticket products.
Typically there are two kinds ofsales positions, right?
Because you need to split it up into multiple interactions,
right? Like for example, $30,000 solar
system, you can't sell that on the doorstep.

(24:59):
That's ridiculous. Nobody's signing up for that,
right? So typically the way it's done,
and this is the same as businessto business deals, right?
It's the same as any other high product, high ticket product or
high ticket service. What you would have is an
outbound sales Rep that is doingcold outreach to strangers,

(25:19):
either cold calling or door knocking.
What they do is they set up appointments and then at the
appointment you have an account executive or a closer come in
and actually do the presentationand close the deal, right?
So both of these sales positions, they still follow a
similar sales process. It's just the apartment center
is selling the appointment and the closer is actually selling

(25:42):
the product. Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Following.
It's a long process. Yeah, it's a lot of stuff, yeah.
Yeah. So you first of all you need to
make sure. You.
Find qualified buyers and you dothat through calls, sales.
And then the next judge is setting up an appointment with

(26:04):
them and making sure you go overeverything.
Yeah. Within all of these, you're
ensuring that they, they understand what you're, you
know, selling. Because if they don't understand
what you're selling and you're spouting out just benefits or
features rather than benefits, then how does this make their

(26:26):
lives better? Yeah, exactly.
And how? How often do you guys get to the
appointment kind of area of how often do you guys what?
Are the ratios. Yeah.
What are the ratios? So is it like 90?
Percent. It really depends on the person
and the way they're setting the appointments right.

(26:47):
But I will give you like a best case scenario, like an ideal
case where it should be at provided they're doing all the
right things. So you know, an experienced
sales Rep with the necessary skills, they'll, they'll talk to
maybe 5 to 10 people and get an appointment.
Now out of three appointments, one or two should sit down.

(27:10):
Out of two appointments, one should definitely close.
And so those are kind of the standard ratios.
And how many appointments? Is it just one or?
How many appointments? What do?
You mean like after they get do somebody knocks on somebody's
door and they're like, yeah, we're interested, set up an
appointment? Like when do they actually sign

(27:30):
and close the deal? Yeah, typically it takes one to
two appointments, the 201 to 2 meetings with the same person
to. Close the deal, Yeah.
Is it in person or in person? We do a little bit of online,
but it's a lot trickier online. You know, when you have someone
there physically, it's a lot better.
Yeah, it's, it's the same thing as like, you know, would we want

(27:51):
to do this podcast online or in person?
In person's always better. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah. But it depends on the product
and service. Like when I was working with
online coaches, obviously they have massive brands online.
All of their followers aren't inthe same city, in the same
location that coaching, the mentorship is all done online.

(28:12):
So it makes more sense to close the deals online as well, right?
But obviously in person would still be better if possible.
Yeah, just a lot more authentic and you get to see somebody you
know talking full in view 'causeeverything not only is are you
getting a information from the 30,040 thousand around there can

(28:34):
yeah varies on like the size of the home and how much they want
right. You're getting to see who this
person is, how they interact, cause like we.
Going back to what we said, connection, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, and then you can be more comfortable rather than
online. It's a bit sketchy, you know,
you don't for sure see them. Could be AI, could be which
actually man yeah. I was thinking of how the the

(28:57):
proliferation of AI being just in every single sector,
academia, social media, just andjust just you see so many clips
of people that are just deep faked, right?
You don't know if they trust it.Real life interactions will
become so much more valuable, you know and for.

(29:19):
Absolutely. For you to be doing this, you
know, just one-on-one with people, I think that people,
society will value that so much more with AI being more and more
prevalent. 100 percent, 100%, like I would say right now, like
if you really tried, you can differentiate a deep fake from a
real video. But we all know how quickly this
technology is picking up. Like it's going to reach a point

(29:41):
where it's like if you saw it online, if you saw it on your
phone, you have absolutely no clue if that's real or if that's
AI. So people are going to start
trusting online stuff a lot lesser and it's going to make,
you know, in person sales grow alot more.
So I'm happy to be in the right place.
Yeah. What are some sales or I think

(30:02):
we already talked to this, how do you handle objections without
coming off as pushy or defensive?
Yeah, that's a really good question.
The first thing to understand isthat it's never you versus the
prospect, right? It's you and the prospect versus
the problem that they have, right?
So the way that we establish this is anytime someone gives

(30:25):
you an objection, you want to make them feel heard and you
want to agree with them, right? So there are two main, you know,
frameworks I use for objection handling.
I can kind of tell you about them.
The first one is agree, respond,redirect, and the second one is
feel, felt, found and then redirect, right?
So I'll kind of dive deeper intowhat these actually mean.

(30:47):
And so with ARR, the first thingyou're doing is, let's say
someone says I need to talk to the wife right before I do this,
right? First thing I would say is
absolutely, 100%, like, I'm not married yet, but I love to
involve my girlfriend in any bigdecisions, right?
Of course, I understand you wantto talk to the wife about this
and run this by her, right? You see how that makes him feel

(31:11):
heard and it makes him understand that we're on the
same team. So, so relatable, right?
This guy gets it. Yeah, this guy gets it right.
And the next thing is my response, right?
So for the wife objection, typically I would be like, yeah.
So like if you, if you did talk to her, what would she like
about it? And they would tell me all the
reasons the wife wants to buy. And I'd be like, yeah.

(31:33):
And what would her concerns mainly be right now, once
they've told me that I could like, for example, if I'm
selling solar, could be like, yeah.
So if the wife understood that this is going to save you
$40,000 over the next 30 years, would she be against you doing
this right? And they're probably going to
say no, she would love that I did it right.

(31:54):
But if I was selling security systems, I would say something
like, you know, it's usually thewives that want to feel
protected and have that Peace ofMind.
You know, if I was able to get you all the smart home gadgets
and all the security stuff, keepyou connected to police and the
fire department for just $39.00 a month, you think she would
really be against you spending like a dollar a day to keep the

(32:16):
family protected? And would she really be against
that? Reframing right and
understanding that like, and you're not trying to be like a
sleazy salesman, you're just trying to frame it so that it
can add value to their lives. Yeah, So all of this, it boils
down to having conviction in your product and knowing that
it's genuinely something that's going to help them, right.

(32:38):
Often times people wonder, you know, isn't sales the same as
manipulation, right? What's the difference between
selling someone and scamming someone?
I would argue that the exact same thing, but it just depends
on the product that you're selling, right?
If it isn't something that's actually in their best interest,
then you scan them, right? But if it's something that's
truly going to help them and it's the best product on the

(33:00):
market, then it is your duty to sell them.
Because if you don't, well, thenthey're going to continue to
have the problems that they're having.
Does that make sense? It's the belief that you have,
right? And it's like, yeah.
And if you generally don't believe in this product and
you're selling it to someone, shouldn't?
Be selling it. Yeah, yeah, no.
Absolutely. You need to find a different
product to sell. Yeah, yeah.

(33:21):
Because solar, right, people, you can save money.
Sun's always out to make an environment better.
Exactly like the the security home system you got.
Yeah. It's like you hear about
robberies here and there around Edmonton and Calgary.
Yeah, here in Shred Park, Yeah. So I like that 100% putting a
dollar, would you, you know, spend a dollar a day to keep
the. Family safe.

(33:41):
Those are just standard responses, right?
When you get into sales trainingfor any product or service,
they'll teach you what kind of responses you need to have.
But it's about the larger framework, right?
Someone tells me they want to talk to the wife and right away
get to my response. That's when they feel like I
don't really understand them andit's you versus me.
And a prospect like that is never going to buy, right?

(34:03):
So you want to agree, you want to make them feel heard.
You want to give you a response,and then you want to redirect
into either closing or to the next feature, right.
You never want to pause because it's very rare that a prospect
will be like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.
You handled my objection. Let's do it.
That doesn't really happen. Yeah, sorry.
I think that was just one of theframeworks.

(34:25):
The other one was the feel felt found, right.
So the way this is done is, for example, you know, sometimes
when I'm in these small towns and people are like, oh, I don't
really believe in solar. I don't think it works because
I've never heard of it. None of nobody around them has
solar, right? It's a really new product.

(34:45):
So with them, I used to feel felt found, right?
So with this, it's like, Oh, yeah, I understand how you feel
about solar. I actually felt the exact same
way when I first, you know, joined this company.
I was like, does it even work during the winters?
Does it work during the night times?
But what I found is that during the summer months, you'd produce

(35:07):
so much excess power. You'd sell that to the grid and
the credits, you can use them during the winters and the night
time so that you're able to get rid of that electricity bill.
Does that kind of make sense? Right.
So this is the feel felt found. So when I say I understand how
you feel, again, it's not you versus me.

(35:27):
What a team. Does that make sense?
Yeah, it makes. Me want to buy but I already I
already have solar. So yeah, well, if you guys
don't, you should get solar. Yeah, get some solar this guy
through Dinkara. Yeah.
What are some sales strategies or frameworks you think every
beginner should know? Well, other than the ones that
I've already mentioned, the biggest one that you know,

(35:49):
anybody should know, even if you're not in sales, you're just
an entrepreneur, you're growing a business, you should know the
PSTT framework. So this is problem solution, tie
down and transition, right? So this is, this is all sales
really is. You're highlighting a problem
someone has, you're giving them a solution, and then you're
tying them down. Meaning you're getting them to

(36:10):
accept that the solution solves that problem, and then you just
transition into closing the dealor transition into the next
problem. What are your closes?
What are my closes? Yeah, yeah.
If you're, if you're, if you don't mind revealing.
What do you mean? Like usually there's like a cent
or a question like a landing blow, like a final blow to the

(36:32):
the coffin. Yes, this is this is a newbie
thing. Only rookies think there's a
magic line that gets your clothes.
Yeah, that is not true. OK, You want to always be
closing. We call it ABC.
Always be closing, right? When it comes to the end, the
clothes should feel like a natural seamless transition.
It shouldn't feel like, oh, thisbig decision or this magic line

(36:55):
this guy said makes me want to buy.
It's not really like that. You want to have soft closes
throughout. You want to option close them or
even if you're hard closing themshould feel very natural, right?
I can tell you more about these closes if you want to know, but
it should not feel like a big thing at the end.
Just flow with it, right? It's not like natural.
It's not like a build up for this grand thing.

(37:16):
It's like you're already, you'realready just providing
information. Yeah, it's not like you're
trying to convince them. You're just, you're just going
with the flow. Exactly, exactly.
By the time like I get to the close, the prospect already
wants to do it and it's just a matter of me asking for the
sale. Sometimes I'm really like, so do
you want to do it? Yeah, right.
But I'm like, does it make more sense to continue doing what

(37:38):
you're doing with the utility company?
Or does it make more sense to dothe solar?
And they're like, obviously solar.
There's not some magic line. Yeah, yeah.
What do you believe separates anaverage salesperson from a great
one? I would for sure say it's their
integrity and their ethics, right?

(37:58):
There are a lot of people that sell a lot, right?
But they're doing unethical stuff.
So I would argue the best of thebest salesman, they value
morality and ethics and that they're to serve the customer,
not just to make a quick buck, right?
That's what, that's what at least impresses me about a sales
Rep. And I've seen plenty of people
that have a really good track record.

(38:18):
They sell a lot, they make a lotof money.
But when you really get to know them, they're not ethical people
and they're pushing the line andquite frankly, they're just
scamming people, right? And that doesn't impress me.
What separates the top sales Repis having that production but
also having ethics, having integrity and a genuine desire
to truly help people and serve, you know, humanity and society.

(38:41):
Yeah. And I think the the, the natural
way of going about things is very self kind of self induced
straight you, you want to do everything for yourself, but it
takes conscious effort to be able to rewire your brain.
So I want to help others. I want to do it for compassion

(39:03):
and I would do it for love. And it's just you go so far with
the true ethics and morals that benefit everyone.
I mean, if we lived in a societywhere everybody truly lived for
other people, yeah, then we'd all be better off, right?
Yeah. But The thing is, it's it's

(39:24):
levels of psychological development really that's what
it is. You should look into spiral
dynamics if you want to learn more about this.
It really breaks down, you know,the different levels of
conscious psychological development that both people go
through and even collectively asa society that we go through,
right? And in the lower stages, you're

(39:44):
really all about yourself because you need to meet your
survival needs, right? Same thing with sales Rep.
Like if you're completely flat broke and you really need money,
it's kind of hard to just look out for the customers best
interest, right? It's like I need to pay rent
tomorrow, right? I need to make the sale, right.
But if someone's a good sales Rep, right and they have made a
bunch of money, then they then they aren't so concerned about

(40:06):
those, you know, lower level survival needs and then move to
a high level of consciousness where they're able to actually.
Consider everyone around them right, and consider the larger
impact of what they're doing right.
So that's why it really, it impresses me only if a sales Rep
has that integrity. Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah. As you build up in the levels, I

(40:29):
think. Have you heard of Maslow's
Hierarchy of needs? Yeah, yeah, it's, I think it's
food in there, like the safe, the basic necessities and like
the safety and then like connection.
And then after that it's like love, sense of belonging.
And then like the very last parts, like self actualization.

(40:49):
And usually that's where you want to do it for others and for
a thing bigger than yourself. You want to do everything in
your power to just stop thinkingabout the the frivolous things,
and you want to truly change theworld for the better and
internalize that. Exactly, exactly.

(41:09):
And if a sales Rep hasn't got tothat point, really makes me
question like, have they even made a bunch of money?
Like have they even got a lot ofsales?
Like why the survival needs still not met?
There's some. There's definitely an issue
there. Right.
And then also a lot of it too isjust a discipline when it comes
to money. And because yes, you can be
spending a lot of money or you can be making a lot of money.

(41:31):
But if you spend all of it, if you don't have the the
discipline to just save that money exactly, then you of
course you're going to keep running out.
If you're going to the to the Nino everyday, you know, putting
it on a black and expecting your5K to turn into the times 500
like there's no shortcuts. Yeah.
Exactly. And yeah, definitely there's so

(41:52):
many different metrics you couldlook at to judge if a sales Rep
is a good sales Rep or the best of the best.
But if you just look at this onemetric of are they ethical?
Are they really there to serve their customers right?
It tells you about all the other.
Metrics it's usually if that if that box checks, usually they're
great with their family. Usually they work out that type

(42:14):
of person to put your needs above you know theirs and
they're the ones to sacrifice. You know, which is it's very
hard to find because yes, then our natural tendency is to
preserve our egos. You know, our just, we just want
to be right all the time and we want to be looked up and be in

(42:36):
the spotlight. You know, life ain't like that.
Like what have, what has really impacted my life in a positive
ways, realizing I'm not anythingspecial, you know, it's, it's
liberating that I'm just a, I'm just a person that I can
experience joy and anger. And yes, I make mistakes.
Yeah. But I can learn from them and I

(42:56):
can still help people. And actually, I, I, I'm going to
read you this quote which just blew my mind, is from this anime
called Jujitsu Kaisen. OK, you know, I don't really
watch anime, OK, But I'm excitedto tell me about it.
Even if all good people died in peace and all evil people were
punished in death, the problem would be that most people in the

(43:17):
world are neither all good nor all evil.
Death is the final destination for all all of us.
But no one dies the same death, right?
And it just got me thinking of like, yes, we are.
We try to be good, right? And people are just, you know,
just hate us and they do really bad shit.

(43:38):
But we can also make mistakes. Like there's, there's some bad
that we do, but it's just havingmore good than bad, going about
your day and not chastising yourself or making that mistake.
Because what I've really, what I've done sometimes is whenever
I, you know, I make a mistake, Ijust double down on that.

(44:00):
And then I just go, oh, this is part of my identity.
This is me. Which is I just suck.
Yeah, I suck, but no, no pause. Like, you can change.
You can change. You can grow from that and you
can like, it may happen again, but you can have better tools in
your arsenal to be able to grow,to live a life of more meaning
and more compassion, and to not pull up but your friends you
know? Yeah, but it just reminds me

(44:22):
again of, you know, consistency in the gym and working out.
It's like, yeah, like sometimes you just, you miss, you miss it.
Like, you know, life comes in the way and you missed your
session today. Well, it's still in your
control. If you want to make that one
missed day into two 3-4 and thena whole week or next day, do you
want to get back on schedule? Yeah, right.
You still have control over that.

(44:44):
Yeah, right. What are the biggest differences
between selling high ticket offers versus low lower cost
products? I would argue that's not too
much of a difference. It's just the amount of time it
takes to actually close the deal, right?
If it's, you know, like a solar system that's thirty, $40,000.
You can't do that in one meetingor you can't do that on the

(45:04):
doorstep. That is just going to take
multiple appointments. Have you done it in the
doorstep? No, it's actually illegal.
Oh really? Yeah, you need to do an
appointment. Yeah, okay, at least Yeah, yeah.
If that guy's if somebody's gonna do it, I feel like you'd
be the guy to not like break thelaw.
But if that, if it wasn't I. Think it is a little unethical

(45:26):
like I mean, if you're talking to this grandma that is barely
understanding and you're just like, Yep, sign your $40,000,
right? And all of her savings are gone
now, right? And maybe doesn't even get rid
of her electricity bill. It gets it gets very easy to do
unethical stuff really if it's high ticket on the spot.
I guess, yeah, I hadn't really thought I mean just.
Intuitively, would you want to sign or some like 40K decision

(45:48):
when you've just met me and spoken to me for like 10
minutes? Maybe so maybe.
I'm really good, yeah. But yeah, it's just the number
of appointments it takes. That's fair.
And you, so how many years have you done the high ticket sales
because you don't, you did. Security to it you did.
Security and how long did you dothat for?

(46:10):
I did security and you know, telecom, Wi-Fi, cell phone
plans, things like that. I did that for two years.
I was also an assistant manager with Telus for a year.
That was like training some sales reps and helping grow the
team and then high ticket sales.I'm pretty new to it, man.
Like probably like 6 months to ayear.
Yeah, probably like 8-10 months,something like that.

(46:32):
Three months of online with, youknow, these coaches and then
like 3-4 months with solar. Oh dope.
Yeah. So.
And you don't, you don't plan tostop.
It's not anytime soon. Yeah, well, I do want to retire.
I don't want to be in sales forever.
Like my plan is next three to four years, make enough money to
get into real estate, have Airbnb's across the world, and

(46:54):
then just keep bouncing around, you know?
That's awesome. Just live off of rental income.
That's dope. That's a great plan.
Thank you. I'm sure you're part of the FIRE
movement like the financial independent.
Retire early. Yeah, I don't subscribe to the
label, but definitely like the idea, yeah.
So how has studying psychology helped you improve your sales
performance and communication skills?

(47:18):
So I would say sales is just applied psychology exactly like
how you know physics is applied math, right?
But I wouldn't say like studyingpsychology directly helped me
improve my sales ability was more of like, it helped me
understand why we do certain things in sales, right?
Instead of just like, you know, just listening to whatever my

(47:39):
managers and trainers taught me.I was like, oh, this is actually
based off of that principle. That makes sense.
This is why we do it this way, right?
But you know, everything I was learning in school, like I'm a
major in psychology. So everything I was learning, it
was kind of bookish knowledge that it was all theory, right?
What sales did for me was it helped me kind of internalize

(48:01):
those psychology principles and apply them in real time, right?
So being able to just read people's body language, that
expressions, and then tailor my pitch, right?
It's again, it's based on all the same psychology principles,
but it's one thing to know it inlike a bookish kind of
theoretical way, another thing to have it internalized and be
able to, you know, talk in real time, right?

(48:24):
But yeah, definitely translates over a lot.
Yeah, there's the I just took a social influence class.
Yeah, yeah, I've done that. Like the door in the face.
Yeah, idea of in the door, put in the door, the bait and
switch. Yeah, right.
It's like yes, you can go on themultiple choice and like see
which one decipher. Oh, that's put in the door is

(48:47):
when you, you know, make sure you offer someone like a smaller
deal and then ramp it up later on.
And door in the face is make sure you offer them a higher
deal and then offer a smaller one to make sure it that they
compare it and you know you you need to be selective, but like

(49:08):
going about it and putting it toplay into real life.
Exactly. Like that's when you, yeah, you
don't think about that. Yeah, exactly.
This is the door in the face technique.
You know, it's like, how do you convince?
Yeah. These customers to buy.
For me, I'm not exactly. I'm gonna not make any money by
giving them the idea. Yeah.
Like, oh, let me look at my notes.

(49:29):
OK, so I'm gonna do the foot in the door technique now.
Yeah, let. Me do the bait and switch, yeah,
yeah. Yeah, actually that reminds me.
So like with solar, you know, initially when we knock the
door, we say, yeah, we're just building out reports to see
which homes can be energy independent, right?
That's what we started. And then towards the end, we're
saying, yeah, like if you want to see the numbers, we need to

(49:51):
find out which incentives you'reeligible for.
So we'll have a solar educator pop by, right?
We're setting up an appointment now.
And when we get to the appointment now, we're closing a
$30,000 deal, right? So it is foot in the door.
And then you're slowly growing it, right?
But understanding that it's footin the door, it just helped me
understand why we do these things, but it didn't actually
help me do it. Yeah, true.

(50:12):
Yeah. It's just like a an idea
forehead. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Do you leverage that sort of
persuasion technique when you'reconvincing a buddy to, you know,
go out to to the bar or something?
Or when you want a buddy to workout with you when he doesn't
really want to. You know, what do you do you?
Leverage any of these. So I need to switch my car's

(50:34):
tires from the winter tires to the summer tires.
And, you know, four wheels, It'sgonna take me a while, right?
So what I'm gonna do, I'm actually gonna do this.
I'm gonna call one of my friends, and I'm gonna be like,
hey, man, how's it going? Like, chitchat, like, genuinely
catch up, see how he's doing andstuff.
And I'll be like, yeah, like, I need to change my, you know,
tires. Like, how do I do this, right?

(50:54):
First, I'll start with how do I do this right and then?
It's not a yes or a no. Yeah, You know, it's like.
He'll explain. Yeah.
You do this, you do that, and I'll be like, OK, OK.
Yeah, That makes sense. Yeah.
I'm probably going to do it later today, evening.
Like, what are your plans today?What are you up to?
And then he'll be, if he's free,he's not free.
I'll. I'll find a different time.
But as long as he's free, I'll be like, awesome.

(51:14):
Yeah. Like, let's come help me switch
the tires and then let's go grabdinner after.
Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. close the
deal. You close exactly.
I you, you don't add any compliments there though.
Like, yeah, you're, it seems like you're really knowledgeable
with cars, man. You've always been that type of
guy. Yeah, of course, of course.
Yeah, all of that. You.
Can't forget the compliments. Yeah, I learned that in my

(51:35):
social influence class, that even if the person doesn't think
you're genuine, like, even if it's like clearly fake, a fake
compliment. Oh yeah, they will still, you
know, be more persuaded, like ifyou, I, I noticed this with some
people at the gym that don't like me and I'll, you know, but
it's like that person that we'rein a circle together with mutual

(51:57):
friends that do like me and I like them.
I can tell this person doesn't like me, but if I compliment
that person that doesn't like me, me, like generally it's
genuine for me. They kind of, they open up a
little bit, you know, and they're like.
Everybody likes compliments. It's not.
So bad at all. You just, you know, even if it's
like, you know, sleazy kind of fake compliment, it's still that

(52:18):
you. It's the thought that counts.
It's like, at least you put the effort.
Yeah, to try to make a compliment.
Yeah, like show. Some intention, yeah.
Yeah, sure. It was like, yeah, it was a bit
sarcastic, right? But.
Man, like I'll knock a door and it's like a 40 year old woman.
I'll be like, are you, are you the homeowner?
She's like, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, you seem a little
young to own the house. Like, are your parents around?

(52:39):
And that's not laughing. And she knows it's, it's
bullshit, but you know, she's laughing too now.
And our guards down. You must.
Be the boss around here is a bigone.
They they taught us and then thepest control company that I was
the queen of the castle or Yeah,thanks for not sticking the
guard dog on me. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah, it's, it's like
kind of like silly and you know,yeah, little cringy, but it's

(53:01):
like, it's the thought that counts.
It makes the time and you had the intention.
Makes you human. Yeah, it's dude.
I'm thankful I got to work that job too, even though it was just
two weeks and. It just learned so much, yeah.
Exponential growth, just when itcomes to just Ice Breakers
alone, man, I didn't know they were so big up until, you know,

(53:22):
I started these people that had a scowl on their face were
turned into, you know, just theylet their guard down because I
said, hey, you must be the boss around here.
You could say that, you know, only when my wife's not around
or like, hey, thanks for not sticking the guard dog on me.
And they're like, oh, yeah, It'slike it's just a poodle.

(53:43):
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Another one line I like to use.
You know, if I see someone working outside, you know,
mowing the lawn or something, I'm like, hey man, how's it
going? Are you you working super hard
today or are you hardly working?Yeah.
And then that's all laughing, that one.
And now we're just chilling, youknow?
Yeah. That's awesome.
Can you share a personal challenge that forced you to

(54:05):
grow mentally or emotionally in what you learned from it?
Oh, man, there's so many, man. I've been through a lot of shit,
you know, whether it be loneliness, mental health
issues, bad breakups. There's so much, like, I don't
know how much we want to get into.
But you know, from every difficulty I've faced in life,
if I could say one thing, you know, for the viewers, yeah, I

(54:26):
would say, you know, life is nothappening to you.
It's happening for you and it's happening from you, right?
All these challenges, all these struggles that you face, they're
part of your story to greatness.But you're only going to get
there if you can persevere and push through, right?
If you're going to have a victimmindset and you're going to let
these things affect you, they'rejust, it's going to be a self

(54:48):
fulfilling prophecy where negativity attracts only more
negativity, right? So just keep going, stay
positive, brush off all the difficulties and the rejection.
It's literally all the same stuff I've learnt in door to
door. It applies to all, you know,
challenges and struggles in life.
Yeah. I had this big revelation just

(55:08):
this weekend, actually. Just yeah, Like that, that
passage I told you, or like the quote from the anime I watched.
That was like throughout all my life, I've always just held on
to the bad shit that I've done. You know, I've always like it's
like a self fulfilling prophecy where yeah, I yeah, I wronged
this person. I treated my ex-girlfriend bad.

(55:31):
Like that must mean I am a terrible person.
And then this is the way I'm going out to be.
And like what she thinks of me is true, but like, change is
possible, right? And like you, when you brush it
off and you go, OK, that happened to me and the future is
uncertain. There's all these things that
are going to pop up that are outof my control.

(55:52):
But what can I do to ensure thatI'm?
Cuz cuz life is happening from you, right?
You're the one creating your life.
It is in your control, right? And you know, it's one thing
when you're feeling guilty aboutthings, and I definitely do
about things too in the past, right?
But it's another thing when you feel like the whole world is

(56:14):
against you. And it's like, why does shit
keep happening to me? Well, it's not, it's not
happening to you. It's happening for you because
there are lessons for you to decipher and learn from, right?
If you can have that mindset of,you know, things aren't
happening to me, it's happening for me and it's happening from
me, that gives you an empowered state where you can go create
the life of your dreams, which is what you're meant to do

(56:36):
anyway. That's why we were put here on
Earth. Yeah, like, in retrospect, all
the struggles that we've had to go through, it all makes sense.
Like, oh, it it was at this point where I lost my friend
here. And I learned not to take people
for granted. And I I didn't blow up at this
person. And that actually had better
outcomes. And then I blew up with this

(56:57):
person and our entire friendshipis tarnished, or that girl ended
up hating me, or that I got in afight with my dad, or I was
looking in the mirror for hours on end, just like berating
myself. That's why I know what it's like
to be like this. And it all makes so much sense,
right? But during it, it's like, it's

(57:19):
the end of the world, you know? But you, you got through it.
Yeah, exactly. And you know, every L can be a
lesson if you can see the biggerpicture.
Like there's this quote of focuson the leaf, miss the branch,
focus on the tree, miss the entire forest.

(57:41):
Yeah, exactly. The more you kind of zoom out,
it's like that little that day just pales in comparison to your
entire livelihood. Yeah.
Like we all, we're all going to feel misery.
We're all going to feel that down spiral like everything's
going going wrong if you all alone.

(58:02):
Yeah, but it's like it passes, man.
And then how? Good will, Every day is a new
day. Yeah, yeah.
How good will that that next sale, that next workout be when
you're actually feeling optimal,when you're feeling good because
you've experienced all the bad shit.
Now you can actually, they'll keep going.

(58:24):
And I this this quota that I always keep thinking about all
the time. And it's courage is not going on
when you have strength. It's going on when you have
none. Yeah, that's beautiful.
Do you, do you still go to work when you're in misery?
Yeah. Do you still work out?
Yeah, of course. That's the only way out, yeah.
And if you just sit in a corner,it's just going to get worse and

(58:45):
worse, yeah. And dude, I've, I have some
buddies of mine that have done that and it's tough, dude.
It's we're all susceptible to it, right?
Yeah, it's, it's always tragic and heartbreaking, but all you
can do is get yourself right so that at least the people around
you can be inspired, right? The other thing that comes to
mind is, you know, in sales, we say no just means next

(59:09):
opportunity and oh, next opportunity, right?
So you can have a door here that, you know, really yells at
you and tells you to fuck off and never come back.
And the next one could be a sale, right?
It literally happens all the time.
Like the people that are in the tranches, they know this, right?
But The thing is, if you carry the weight of this guy yelling
at you, you will never get the sale.

(59:31):
Even if it was a complete lay down, even if they were already
looking for the product. If you just go there with this
feeling of oh, like people just hate me.
That guy said fuck off. Like I just suck and you go to
this opportunity, you're just going to ruin it, right?
So yeah, just want to share that.
It's self talk is huge. Like I sometimes it's out of

(59:52):
your control when you just you make a mistake, you call
yourself a loser, right? Or you do this.
But there's a psychologist namedPaul Conti where if you picture
a bowl and you're putting dye init and slowly, right, you, you
do the little drops and with whatever drops you're putting
in, that's going to make up the entire bowl.

(01:00:13):
And this is the same way with the self talk that we have.
If you say love 100 times. 1000 times in your head, you're going
to be repeating it. If you're calling yourself
stupid 1000 times, you're you'reprobably going to be stupid.
You know, you're going to be a loser.
You're going to be like, I don'tsubscribe to this like self

(01:00:33):
affirmation thing. Like I, I like results, right?
But at the same time you need your mind needs to be on your
side exactly to to get after results.
Right. Yeah, like I, I, how do you go
about yourself talk? Again, it's pretty internalized,
man. Like if I, you know, when I mess

(01:00:54):
up something, I don't really tell myself I suck.
I tell myself, I'm getting better, right?
I tell myself, oh, I'm learning,right?
Each time I try this I get a little bit better, right?
But do you ever get it in the back of your head that, oh, what
I'm saying is just fake? Do you ever get that where it's
like? What?
What is real? Yeah, I guess you're right.

(01:01:16):
Like. How is it real when you tell
yourself you suck? Like how do you know that's
real? Maybe that's fake.
Too, That's true. Because sometimes I'll be like,
yeah, I can do this, I'm a beast.
But then there's just like, you know that like devil and the
Angel on the side, like, yeah, I'm a beast.
But at the same time, there's like this other voice where it's
like they're not enough, they'llnever be good enough.
Or maybe, maybe, Yeah, the truthis somewhere in between.

(01:01:39):
Maybe. Yeah.
You're exaggerating a little when you say, you know, you're
the best and you know everything, right?
But you can still be realistic and still be positive, right?
You can still tell yourself, hey, I'm not there yet, but I'm
getting better. I can do this.
I can do anything I want to do, right?
I'm going to figure this out, right?
Those are still things that you can realistically tell yourself.
And you know you're not lying. Yeah, but how did you go about

(01:02:02):
the repeat the I have to again with the the mental framework
that you had? I have this is this is happening
for me. This is not happening to me.
How did you go about internalizing that idea?
Think just reading a lot of books, listening to a lot of

(01:02:23):
YouTube. A lot of this is from just
spiritual insights itself, right?
Like first hand experience from a lot of meditation, things like
that, listening to all the spiritual teachers or just even
general self help psychology. Like these principles are just
standard principles, right? Right.
Before we started the podcast, Iwas telling you like success

(01:02:45):
principles, they've been the same throughout time, right?
It's always been the same, right?
And it's your, you have the blueprint if you're willing to
study it. And then it's on you to
internalize it through practice.That reminds me of, like,
there's all these different quotes, right?
I could quote you a million different things about
discipline, about love, about compassion.

(01:03:07):
Yeah. I can quote you all these things
that are supposed to nourish your soul.
And all the lessons are there, right?
In fact, it's in our phones. It's on the Internet.
It's that through in the library.
It's from the experiences from your father, from your mother,
from the friend that, you know, survived cancer, that survived
obesity and somehow lost all that weight.

(01:03:29):
There's all these lessons, everything's been said and done,
but nobody was listening, you know, So we, and for most of us,
we have to learn the hard way oflike, yeah, don't just marry for
a pretty face, you know, don't just don't take your family for
granted. Prioritize your health.

(01:03:50):
That's the only thing that's themost important thing in life.
And like, we just we know that everybody has heard that, right.
But it's like how you don't actually know up until you see
your friend dying, yeah. Sometimes you just have to learn
the lessons the hard way, right?Yeah.
And that's life. But you can still try to be
ahead of the curve and actually,you know, dedicate time to

(01:04:11):
studying, right? Like we go to school and we just
kind of go with the motions and we're studying or we don't even
want to study. But the point of school, I
really believe, is to learn how to study, right?
How to actually sit down and prepare for an exam, right?
And you can take that skill set and you know, it's almost like a
meta skill set that you can use to learn any other skill set,

(01:04:33):
right? You, if you want to be
successful, start reading books on success.
If you want to improve your mental health, start reading
books on that, right? Like actually study it, right?
And then, yeah, I the preparation to, you mentioned
that like, yes, reading books and yeah, projecting how you can

(01:04:54):
optimize this one year down the road, you know, like tomorrow,
how will the version of me feel,right?
And just going about it through trial and error as well, 'cause
there's so many things in life too where like there's all these
different diets, right? Like I'm sure you're probably
going through countless amounts of diets when it comes to just

(01:05:17):
intermittent fasting, like keto and all that and meditation,
right? There's all these different
types of meditations, but it's not all going to work for you,
right? There's some people just like
certain movies, yeah, maybe you like comedy, maybe you do this,
but for life itself, right? You have to really, really
structure it so that it's on your side.

(01:05:39):
If you are just a person that hates meditation and then you
keep your friend keeps telling you it, you keep doing it, and
you just don't like it, then you're just making your life
miserable. Yeah, you don't have to do
meditation. There's so many different
spiritual practices you could look into, right?
I would say it's more important to have some sort of spiritual
practice instead of just trying to force your way to meditate if

(01:05:59):
it's just not for you. Yeah, man, what's, what's your
morning routine look like? Oh, right now it's, it's kind of
crazy. I do not have a routine right
now, if I'm being honest, simplybecause we're launching a brand
new sales team, right? With solar, I'm building a new
office. I'm training reps It's crazy.
Like I wake up at 8:30, my phoneis going off, right?

(01:06:21):
I go to bed at 12 until 12. I'm either training myself,
training someone else, doing admin stuff, taking calls,
talking to customers, closing deals.
Like it's crazy, right? And I don't have a fixed
schedule, but what I do make time for is exercise gym.

(01:06:41):
I'm not meditating too much right now, again because of the
time commitment, but I make sureI at least pray or I listen to
like a spiritual teacher as I'm falling asleep, right?
What else? I am also like, I like reading
physical books, right? Because you get to take your
time with it. But right now, because I'm so

(01:07:01):
busy, I'm still making time to listen to audiobooks on my
drives. Anytime I'm driving, swap out
the music for an audiobook. Yeah, that's awesome, man.
It's like the little things say they add up to amalgamate to
something phenomenal. Yeah.
Why and how do you master yourself and reach your goals
when it comes to self mastery? Yeah, so I'm actually building a

(01:07:24):
community called Meta Society. It's pretty much for, you know,
people in Canadian universities,mostly for guys, but that I
really talk about this, right? You know, to get optimized, you
need to focus on 6 pillars of your life, right?
I learnt this from my millionaire mentors at Legacy.

(01:07:45):
So I want to give them a shout out to Jason, Archan and Rohan.
They've been awesome. They taught me this stuff,
right? But the six pillars, the acronym
for it is stamps. So they are spiritual,
emotional, mental, physical and social, right?
So these six pillars of your life, if you can, you know,

(01:08:05):
dedicate some amount of time to them, you can stay optimized and
you don't really burn out, right?
A lot of people that are like, oh, I can't really work so hard
because I'm going to burn out, right?
Or when they try working hard, they're like, Oh my God, I'm
just so stressed. I need to take a day off, right?
I need to recharge. I need to, like, refresh right
Now. The thing is, like, if you're

(01:08:25):
really ambitious, you can't run life like that.
It's impossible for you to just sacrifices, bro.
Yeah. Yeah.
So it's like, how do you, you know, work extremely hard, you
know, and become a millionaire like that?
My mentors have taught me this. But at the same time, you know,
not burnout, right? The trick to it is actually
making time for these six pillars, right?

(01:08:47):
Kind of how you asked me, you know, what's your morning
routine, man? I'm so busy, I don't have one,
but I still make time for these things, right?
And there's a bunch of differentstuff you can, you know, do for
each of these pillars. I kind of went into that.
This podcast is going to be a couple hours long.
That'll be. For the next pod, yeah.
For the next one or check out Meta Society, you'll find on
that too. Yeah, exactly.

(01:09:07):
Cool, Yeah, I like the the non negotiables you have of just the
reading and the gym. Yeah, right.
That I'm sure you're probably taking a bunch of phone calls
with when you're at the gym too.Hey.
Oh yeah, I'm on my phone, I'm texting people, I'm taking
calls, but I'm still hitting my Sats in between.
Dude, that's some my first interaction or my, the few times
that I seen like the, the top guy at the, the sales company

(01:09:32):
that the, for pest control that I, yeah, he was always in a
phone call. I, it was crazy.
I, I never knew somebody could be taking that many phone calls.
Yeah. We'd be midway through a
conversation and yeah, he'd get a phone call and then the end of
it, the start of it, and then he'd get another phone call and
next thing you know, he's havingfour or five meetings.

(01:09:52):
Exactly. I think business is just, you're
talking to so many people all the time.
Yeah. If you want to be a business
owner, like forget about work life balance, that's not for
you. Yeah.
Yeah, I the lot of people that do say work life balance have
already made their sacrifices intheir 20s.
You know, like when you ask a person who's already become a

(01:10:15):
millionaire. Yeah, once you've.
Made it, then you can, you know,work life balance.
For me it was it's the work lifebalance.
So you have to always make take make time for your kids and all
this. But then if you go back to when
they were like 10 years ago, they were hustling and grinding.
Yeah, or they would trust fun kids.
Yeah, or that. Yeah, Yeah.
It always goes to show. Just like from their

(01:10:37):
perceptions, right. It's like it's all morph because
they don't, they forget what it was like.
Like talking to them ten years ago would have been different.
You have to hustle and grind. Yeah, the same way.
I don't know if this is like a clear connection, but I every
time you ask or a woman gives you advice like my, my, the, the

(01:10:59):
woman in my life, like my sister, my mom, or just even
some mother figures that I have like through school, right?
If I ask them for some relationship advice they're
always like just wait for the right one that it will.
Come. From OK, from their perspective,
from their perspective, the guy is the one hustling to go out
and make it happen, right? The the woman just like stands

(01:11:22):
there and just waits for the day, waits for the guy that
come. So from their perspective, it
seems like really logical to say, hey, yeah, it happened to
me for you just wait for love. But no, if you're a guy, that's
not gonna happen. But from a woman's perspective,
yeah, it just, yeah, He asked meon the day.
He was the one that sent me the tax.

(01:11:42):
He's the one that made this happen, right.
So it really, it really depends kind of who you're asking and
what kind of results you're wanting.
Right. Yeah, Yeah.
Well, you wouldn't ask a fish how to catch fish, you'd ask a
fisherman. Yeah, yeah.
No, exactly. It's like a lot of it's like,
yeah, the framing around. It.

(01:12:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, dude, cool, awesome.
Yeah, but. Thank you for coming on the Long
Term Podcast. No, thank you for having me,
man. It's been my pleasure.
Yeah, I can tell you you're hustling out there.
And thank you so much still for making time for this pod.
No, you're really pleasure, man.You're really busy, guy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm really thankful.
I can tell you're going to go far above and beyond.

(01:12:23):
Thank you. And I'm rooting for you.
As well, man, you as well, yeah.Dude, the Airbnb is one of these
days, man. I'll have to.
I'll have to rent them out too and so.
Let's go anything. Hopefully you give me a discount
or something. OK, I got them on video.
So yeah. Dude.
You got any last words to somebody who may feel an online

(01:12:43):
sales they're doubting it or? Just keep fucking going.
Don't stop. That's it.
Keep fucking going. Hell yeah.
But yeah, as always, to everyonelistening and watching, there is
a place for you in this chaotic world.
Never lose soap. Strengthen your faith and keep
it long term. Dincar, Patak, everyone.

(01:13:03):
Thank you. Pronounce that right.
Good enough? No, that's good then.
It's why I want the ancestors tocome after me and butcher me.
No, you're good.