#135 - Spencer Cummings - You Need to Know What’s Happening in Palestine & The Hidden Damage of Capitalism - Long Term Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
What led you to become passionate about the issue of
Palestine and how has it shaped your view on justice and global
solidarity? So kind of when I was a kid, I
really didn't know a lot about Palestine.
I really didn't know a lot aboutthe history.
I really didn't know a lot aboutwhat was going on in that
region. I kind of just assumed what I

(00:20):
heard on the news that there's bombings going on there and
there has been kind of throughout the past.
I assumed it was 20 years, but it turns out it's a lot longer.
It's been nearly, it's been since the inception of Israel.
And the biggest thing for me is that I noticed that there's a

(00:41):
lot of issues in the region recently that have really caught
my attention closely because since 2022, I'm not going to say
the date because everyone kind of hates when I bring that up.
And, and it's not the point of the argument that should be made
about the issue. But since 2023, it's been around

(01:04):
55,000 people that have been killed in the region.
And it's all over Instagram, these videos and I've seen a lot
of them of people being murdered, of people being
killed, of people being burned alive, of, of all these kind of
situations that are horrific. And we don't even have any idea

(01:25):
of what that's like in our world.
So just a lot of emotion for me when I see that in the world.
And the justification is not notappropriate with the response
because Israel's justification and the world is seeing this and
reacting obviously poorly. Is that the reason that they

(01:48):
want to invade and destroy so much of Palestine is because of
the October 7th attack that occurred in 2022 by Hamas
fighters, which again, are not working class Palestinian
people. They're a group that's inside
Palestine. That is a small group of people

(02:08):
that Israel essentially uses to justify invasionary events
throughout their history since the first Nakba.
So I I've seen that and I am just reacting the same way that
many cities in the world are reacting.
And this movement that has happened recently has been based

(02:28):
on how much escalation has happened.
And now we're seeing in every city in in the Western countries
and in European countries that there's protests and people are
very upset, especially the Palestinian community.
And also the biggest problem is that the Palestinian community
is such a small community. So for them to organize and for

(02:49):
them to try to fight for this cause is much more difficult
because they're so small in population.
So that's where socialist groups, left wing groups have
kind of taken a lot of that effort from them and been able
to organize protests around different cities so that they
can speak for the unspoken voices.

(03:11):
So it's, I, I really think again, the, The thing is, is
that we just don't, we, we don'tknow a lot because we aren't
told a lot. And I've looked into it a lot
and it's, it's once you kind of go further than just the CNN
news reports, you realize that this is a conflict that's a way,
way unjustified and I would argue fascist in nature.

(03:36):
That's what I'd say. For the people that aren't
updated onto the OR haven't beenon the news ever, that don't pay
acknowledgement to the things that are happening in Palestine
and Israel, it could you explainit in simple terms?
Sure. Yeah.
So the biggest thing, that's thesimple terms, is that it's a

(03:59):
conflict that has happened sincethe inception of Israel because
Israel was formed by taking a section of Palestine and giving
it to the Zionist movement. So the Zionist movement is
basically based on kind of this biblical text that said that the

(04:23):
Jews are to be promised the areaof Israel.
So like, and a lot of Christiansknow that story, right?
And I, I, I know it as well, butthat's why that area was
essentially taken from Palestine, because the Ottoman
Empire broke up after World War One and then Palestine was a
local province of the Ottoman Empire.

(04:45):
The Zionist movement came essentially from Europe and then
settled into that region. And then also it, it was kind of
further, further created becauseof the Holocaust.
They wanted a region to be created so that Jewish people
could have a country they could call their own.
Because Jewish people, many people argued, were so

(05:08):
discriminated against because they didn't have a home region,
because they were kind of lookedat as a group that was kind of
all over the world and didn't have a home base so people could
pick them out. So they created Israel for a lot
of those reasons. That's some of them.
And then that therefore meant that the people that lived in
that region, the Palestinian people in that region were

(05:30):
forced out. And gradually over time, this
Zionist message has caused a lotof Israelis in the region to
essentially kind of develop thisUS versus them against the
Palestinians because they feel entitled to the land.
They feel entitled to the to theland.

(05:52):
So the reason that this has become such a problem is because
that mindset has grown more and more.
There's less cooperation betweenthe two countries.
And overtime, Israel has had so much support from the West that
and the West is where all the money is in the world, right?
So because of that, that has essentially caused the Israeli

(06:16):
society is the, the country of Israel to become so much more
powerful than Palestine because of just the, because of all of
the financial resources that they've acquired.
And they're, they're, they're, you know, a top 20 country in
terms of GDP now at this point, right?
So because of that, that's kind of created such a problem with

(06:37):
with this kind of mindset of we haven't the entitled meant
entitlement to this land. And this is what has led to
these massacres that we've seen happen recently and just the
recent bombings. And like very and every single
day there's there's people beingkilled.
Like if you go to Al Jazeera, their news website out of Qatar,

(06:58):
they do a report every day on the amount of people that are
killed. I recommend people look into
that every day. It's around 30 to 50 people
every single day that are killed.
So that's kind of what I gave a bit of history there and then
kind of what's going on right now.
So Palestine was all, it's one country along with Israel, but

(07:21):
they they gave that patch of land and that became Israel.
So Israel actually wasn't a country, and it was Palestine
originally, all throughout that region.
And then because people, Jewish people, were promised certain.
So specifically like the recognition of whether or not
Jewish people were promised, it is up for debate.

(07:44):
And, well, not necessarily up for debate, but the question of
how that was to be attained, many Jewish people argue was
attained poorly. Like Abramatte talks a lot about
Palestine and he's Jewish himself and he says a lot.
He says the way that this was done and also the fact that we
feel entitled to take from somebody else is completely the

(08:05):
nuts. And.
And so that, yeah, so Israel wasbasically formed on the basis
that a specific group of Jewish people called Zionists, We're
going to come into that region and take this piece, that
region, because Zionism essentially means that there
should be a nation state for these Jewish people.
That's what Zionism is built on.Not all Jewish people are

(08:28):
Zionists, but some are, essentially.
Yeah. And now Israel wants more of
land. Yes.
OK, Yeah. And they're not making that
necessarily the clearest thing. But but and, and but The thing
is, is that there are groups that downright have said, yes,
we just want to completely annihilate Palestine and make it
our own. And the problem is that there's

(08:49):
other politicians that don't make that any less easy because
Donald Trump has said, well, we should displace a lot of the
Palestinian population and we should just move in there and
basically cap, capitalize the region so that there's a a large
growth of capitalism. And then Israel can just move
in. So it's steadily moved more and

(09:09):
more throughout history that they've taken more and more land
from Palestine to where it's just West Bank and Gaza.
And these are like small. This is basically Gaza is a
city. It's just a city in size.
And so the problem is that it's so small now.
And then you can see as the map goes on, years and years, it's
just closing in more and more. So it's yeah, it is a taking
overtime that's happening. So Israel, they feel that

(09:32):
they're entitled to the land andso they're would you say they're
the aggressors? Oh, 100% they're the aggressors
in this case. They are the, they are the
Russia and and Palestine's the Ukraine right now, 1000% And
it's, it's pretty obvious. And and there's just a lot of
rhetoric that goes out of just like of well, the Palestinians

(09:52):
have this terrorist group, they're fighting this terrorist
group. But if you look at the numbers
that that Hamas specifically theamount of people that Hamas has
killed compared to the amount ofpeople that Israel has killed in
Palestine, we're talking like fiftyfold.
Like in terms of like Israel killing more people.
So the response that Israel had to the Hamas attack on October

(10:16):
7th, which killed I, I believe it was 1500 Israeli people.
That's it's 1500 to about a 2000people.
That response that Israel has given to that situation was
they've killed 50,000 Palestinian people in the past
three years. And the justification is that
that's to try to take down Hamas.

(10:36):
But how could you have a conflict where so many civilians
are killed? I mean, even if you looked at,
even if you looked at World War 2, if you look at the proportion
of soldiers that were killed to civilians killed, it's not
nearly as close to the proportion of civilians killed
to soldiers killed in this conflict.
So I it's, it's, it's seems moreand more obvious to me that it's

(11:00):
a genocide the way that people have have treated this region
and. They're just kind of making it
up land right, when really it's trying to kill the people off.
Yeah, yeah. And well, it's both of them
actually. It's both of those things
because they they, I think that I think it is that they want the
land more than anything else. And I just think that what it is

(11:22):
is that they don't care how manypeople they have to kill to get
it. I don't, it's not like downright
like the same thing as Nazi Germany where they outright
wanted to target Jewish people. I think that they just want that
region to the land situation, but they don't care how many
people they have to kill. That's where this is different
than a Nazi Germany, but equallyI think as immoral in terms of

(11:47):
not caring about the lives lost as a result of this.
And this is not all Israeli people.
I want to make that clear. This is a select group of often
far right Israeli movements thathave taken over Israeli society
and specifically their leader Benjamin Netanyahu has moved
further and further and further to far right politics that has

(12:09):
caused the whole the the the Zionist movement to kind of
uprise and become more violent over time essentially.
So within Israel you got the Zionists and they're kind of
like the the far, far right terrorist group.
I wouldn't call them a terroristgroup.
Well, I, I, no, no, yes, yes, they are.

(12:30):
Sorry, I should not say they're not, because they are.
But The thing is, is that Western media would never call
them a terrorist, right? And then Hamas, yeah, yeah.
Which is they're also. They are a terrorist group,
yeah. I, I, I'm not a spokesperson for
Hamas, but I, but I would never try to use the justification

(12:51):
that they're a terrorist group to justify the war in Palestine.
That doesn't make it OK at all. So, but I'm not a spokesperson
for Hamas or for Hezbollah, which is out of Lebanon.
I'm I I'm just a spokesperson for the working class of of
these regions who have had to suffer massively as a result of
this conflict. And how are the are the

(13:12):
civilians being killed off because they're, they're in the
way? Are they?
They're purposely being targeted.
I think, I think they're purposely being targeted.
I think that there is targeting going on because some people
don't want to leave the region, which you know, like First
Nations in Canada didn't want toleave.
So the response that we gave wasimmoral and I'm saying that that

(13:35):
applies here to the indigenous people of of Palestine are being
forced out of this region because they want land.
Israel wants land for their own.They want to have the whole
region to their own. And so, yes, I think they are
targeting with and, and I think some people are just, yeah,
byproducts of just this warfare.But Israel is not.

(13:57):
Israel's not doing the thing that they they should do, which
is they should have a special forces team go in there and, and
have a very direct, coordinated attack if they want to actually
deal with stuff. But they just bomb the region.
They just bomb the region and they know that there's women and
children in the region. And it just that's, that's
really where I get kind of emotional because that's

(14:19):
disgusting to me. Like that there's so many women
and children that are killed as a result, compared to soldiers
of Hamas that are killed. It's not even like it's, it's so
obvious. There's some kind of targeting
going on there and it's, it's horrible.
Like it's so horrible. And hasn't this been going on
for decades? I mean, it's only gotten like
worldwide media attention since what, the 20?

(14:41):
2022, yeah. Since the attack October 7th,
yeah. And that attack was the
aggressors were Israel going into Palestine.
No, the aggressors were actuallythe Hamas Palestinian group
going into Israel. So Israel responded by all these
bombings, essentially. So there was an attack by a
Palestinian terrorist group thatkilled a few 100 Israeli people,

(15:05):
and then Israel responded to theattack by killing 50,000 people.
So it was 1000 people killed, and then Israel responded by
killing 50,000 civilians. So it's a completely
unproportional response is what I'm trying to say.
And do you think they this wouldhave happened if Palestine

(15:26):
didn't? First, yeah, I would have, yes,
for sure. Because The thing is, is I
didn't know a lot about this. It would have happened at a
different rate. But the thing that I just didn't
know before October 7th is that Israel has been dominating that
region and killing people since the the first Nakba, which Nakma

(15:49):
I, I'm not sure what the, I think it's a Palestinian word,
but it essentially means, I'm not totally don't quote me on
this, but it's like uprising, I'm pretty sure something like
that. And it essentially was the first
event where Israel slaughtered people in that region.
They've been doing this since their inception.
Israel and Palestine have been in war since Israel's inception
in 1948. So there have been conflicts

(16:12):
going on in that region, but every single time you see every
event throughout this this timeline, it has always been
Israel being more aggressive in every single situation.
It always has been Israel killing more people than the
Palestinians killed back. So in this case, October 7th,
the thousand that they killed, Israel kills 50,000 people.

(16:34):
So they're the, it's just the response is not proportional.
And Israel's calling themselves such a sophisticated government,
then they should operate sophisticatedly militarily,
which they don't. They just kind of kill whatever
they want. And and yeah, no, I'm not, I'm
not, I'm not saying that the people who were killed on
October 7th don't deserve to be heard.

(16:54):
Like I wouldn't I, I'm against all kinds of conflicts in that
case. So that's that's to me, I would
people, many people argue, Oh, well, you would you're calling
Hamas a group that we should support.
I I'm never calling them that. And I think that that that was a
horrible thing that happened on October 7th.
But I think it is much more horrible what's happening in
Palestine, much more horrible so.

(17:17):
In your journey of healing and finding authenticity, how do you
emotionally process witnessing justice injustice happening in
real time, especially when it feels distant yet deeply?
Personal, yeah. So I think The thing is that
when I see what's going on, it'strying to think of the right

(17:38):
words here. But The thing is, is that I find
that there's a lot of authenticity in speaking out
what is speaking out about what matters to me.
And I think there's actually healing in looking at the
injustices that are happening inthe world and making a point to
say this is not OK. I think that's part of healing

(17:59):
for me. I think that's part of healing
in general is because you realize the injustices that
happened in your own life and therefore you respond by once
you've built the strength responding to injustices
happening in the world and you have a voice and you speak up to
that voice. So it's difficult to see what's
going on. And it's it's hard to, to see

(18:20):
it, but it's important to see it.
It's like when we look at World War 2, it's important that we
see the images of what happened in the Holocaust because it
gives us an appreciation to not do it again, right?
The minute that we blur out images of Holocaust videos and
we don't show kids the the what we kind of think is too violent

(18:41):
or to grow Tescan image to share, we start becoming
ignorant to actually what happened in history.
So my dad when he was a kid, when I was a kid, he made it a
point to show me many documentaries about the
destruction that happened in Ukraine in in in Ukraine during
when the Soviet Union collectivized the region and how

(19:01):
there was cannibalism going on. And I was terrified when I was
12 by watching that video. And I remember I cried and I was
like, this is so horrible. But I grew up later, like really
appreciating that my dad showed me that because then it gave me
an appreciation for human suffering and how and how bad we
can get if we don't think about the things that we do and we

(19:24):
don't think about God when we dothe things that we do.
So I look at what's going on in this region in in Palestine and
Israel, and I just naturally want to speak out.
And I think that's the biggest thing that people can do to
respond to the injustice in a healing way is to speak out, is
to organize, is to protest. And to say that we've had enough

(19:47):
of watching this suffering in the world and we are not going
to put up with people being killed for no reason that are
purely bystanders of a conflict.And I think that's that's how
you address the healing aspect of injustice in the world.
It's the leaders with an idea, right?
And they have an agenda. They follow through with it.

(20:09):
And who gets hurt? It's the people in the
crosshairs. It's not them.
They're they're just the ones laying out the orders to the
soldiers and the soldiers with the guns.
They go out there and they rest their lives.
All for for what? That's a good point.
And the and the problem, the thing that we're getting better
at, we're definitely not good at, is that we are prosecuting

(20:30):
the leaders responsible for these conflicts.
So you have you have Slobodan Milosevic and in Yugoslavia who
was tried by The Hague eventually for the Yugoslavian
massacres that happened. But we still have a long ways to
go. Like even with the Rwandan
genocide, the response that we had to that situation was so it

(20:51):
took so long for us to finally respond to the leaders
responsible for that and to prosecute them in an
international courts. There's already been an arrest
warrant put out for the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin
Netanyahu, by the ICC and for YoF Gallant, who was the defense
minister of that region. So any of the countries that are
members of the ICC have a responsibility to arrest him on

(21:14):
the spot. But the problem is, is there's
so much pressure from the UnitedStates to not do that.
And the United States is not part of the ICC.
So that's where we are kind of in so many ways, I think we are
undermining our international solidarity for democracy it by
saying that, OK, only select groups of people can be
prosecuted. Only this person can be

(21:36):
prosecuted. But if they're a powerful
person, if they're like some kind of businessman of scale,
then we should take our time to look at the answers.
So you see their hypocrisy in it, right?
It's totally crazy to me. What's the ICC?
An International Criminal Court.So they are a criminal body that
is based on the Rome Statute, which is was signed I think in

(21:57):
the 40s by a whole bunch of countries, Western countries
besides the United States. They're the, they're one of the
big Western countries that aren't part of it.
So essentially the ICC countriesall have an agreement that in,
if an arrest warrant is put out by the head judge of the ICC,
then all those countries have torespect that rule.
So if Benjamin Netanyahu comes to Canada, he will be arrested.

(22:19):
That's essentially the rule. Justin Trudeau said he would
respect that rule. We obviously don't have him as
our leader anymore. So we don't know what Mark
Carney's going to do, but probably he will agree.
I, I don't, I haven't seen your Mark Carney enough to know.
But again, Justin Trudeau took apretty weak position on the
Israel Palestine conflict. I haven't seen the greatest when

(22:40):
it comes to Mark. But again, this is what the ICC
is, is that if you're a part of it and they put out an arrest
warrant, then that means that you have to respect that
warrant. So hopefully if that does occur,
people agree if someone comes toCanada like Benjamin Netanyahu,
he will be arrested. That's the way you address the
injustice happening in that region.

(23:00):
Would he go to the Canadian jail?
Yeah, well, he'd go to, he'd, I'm pretty sure that he would go
to AICC, an international jail that that would house, I think
it's in The Hague because the Netherlands is where all of kind
of international courts are usually held.
So like prisoners during the Nazi trials of Nuremberg were
all held in Nuremberg, which I, I, I don't know why I'm

(23:22):
forgetting where Nuremberg is, but but all of them were held in
this international court system.And I don't know if they execute
anymore, but at one time they did.
But it's definitely a life imprisonment situation to where
like Slobodan Milosevic was was tried and then he was found
guilty and then he was put in prison.

(23:44):
So to recap everything, Palestine was a country on its
own, then Israel separated form their own from Palestine, right?
And since then, they've always just been back and forth with
the Jewish group. Yeah.

(24:06):
Yeah, that yeah, yeah. Right.
Palestine's What religion? Are they Muslim?
Yeah. Muslim.
Muslim. So it's just back and forth.
They can't get into an agreement.
So it's just a lot of people in the crosshairs, a lot of war
going on. Yeah, since the 90s, right?
Since since the 40s. The 40s.
Wow. Yeah, up until today.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Wow.
Yeah. Why don't they just find common

(24:29):
ground, man? Like, I'm sure, there's sure
there's so many families out there who've been affected,
right? They yeah, why don't they just
eventually, hey, yeah, this is getting real dark.
This is getting really, really is not in our best interest for
for both of them, right? Yeah, we'll think about it this
way. So you grow up in a country and

(24:51):
your family lives there and another country tells you you
can't live in that country. Are you going to respond by
saying, OK, I'll freely kind of move wherever, Like 'cause
that's a, a long process that a person has to go through to
where they have to move their whole family's heritage.
Like you have so many memories in your house, right?
Barbecues with your family, likeso many times you have spent

(25:13):
together. All of that then can be removed
at any time by a government thatdoes not see you fit for that
region. That's where I think that it is
a conflict. That's two way.
But I think that it's more a conflict where Israel, again, is
the main aggressor because of the fact that these people are

(25:34):
home to this region. They are.
They've been home to this regionfor hundreds of years.
They're native to this region. Israeli society is not native to
that region. It's like with Canada.
We have to deal with the reconciliation of taking from
the native people of this land what we thought was ours, even
though we're not native to that region, right?
So that's where I try to give myown like justification for

(26:00):
trying to explain it to Canadians, right?
Because that's where you have tolook at this conflict and be
like, who's the person who deserves to have their rights
respected? And I think it's the people who
are native to that region who should have their rights
respected ultimately, right, because that they have families
they've built there for generations.
And so that's where I think thatIsrael could just because

(26:22):
Israel's such a rich nation, they could just be a little bit
humble in this situation and accept that some of this land
they give up to these people andthey accept to coalesce together
because that's and also they should they should homogenize.
They should combine and collaborate with other Muslim
countries. And they shouldn't become a
Jewish state is what I'm trying to say, because they should

(26:45):
because whenever you, you have anation that, and, and I'll say
this, even with Christianity, asa Christian, we've been guilty
of going into a country and justsaying this is a Christian
nation. Now, we don't expect, we don't
respect other religions. You need to respect other
religions because not everyone believes the same religion as
you. And that's part of, that's part
of reality. And so that doesn't mean you go

(27:07):
and you kill somebody who's of another, like everyone knows
this, right? So that's just basic human
decency. And I think that we do need to
move away from Trump trying to force religion on somebody else
who doesn't want a Jewish religion, right?
And that's where I think we, we should try to collaborate with
these people because ultimately it's, it's just A1 sided

(27:28):
conflict in my, in my mind. Yeah, I'm saying just like, why
do you need land so much? Can't you just be happy with
your own? Exactly.
Exactly. Exactly.
That's exactly it. Yeah.
And so why not just let these people live the way they want to
live and just live? Let let them coalesce?
There would be less violence if they did that.
And Israel has the power to do that because they're the more
powerful nation here. They're the ones who have the

(27:49):
cards to play. And so they ultimately need to
just, I think they need to accept the cards that they're
dealt. And they need to be like, OK, we
need to work with these people. Like Canada has to has treaties
signed, right? We have treaties and agreements
signed with the people of this region.
And so we have to have, they have, I think they have to have
treaties signed with the Palestinians that says this,

(28:12):
this land is guaranteed to you, it is not infringed upon.
And so that's what keeps Albertafrom separating, right, is that
we have agreements with the First Nations people that keep
that land sovereign First Nations territory, so they get
to decide what happens to it ultimately.
So that's what we have to have with the Palestinians.
Israel does. And what do you believe are the

(28:32):
most powerful or practical ways for individuals, especially
artists and creators, to supportthat Palestinian cause today?
So speak out, I'd say that's thebiggest thing.
Just get, get out there, get involved.
And so the question is what, what if I don't know about the
conflict? That's that's where I did all
the digging. Just learn, just educate

(28:54):
yourself on what's going on 'cause you see these protests
happening in Edmonton, right? And people are like, what's this
about, right? Why are people saying free
Palestine? And what's this hashtag going on
on Instagram? Look into it, right?
Like read Norman Finkelstein, hedoes a lot of good books about
the conflict and he talks about it from the Palestinian
perspective. So a lot of books don't do that.

(29:15):
And that's a great author to look into.
You've got you've got Gabermate who's talks a lot about trauma,
right? But he also talks a lot about
the Palestinian conflict and he comes at it from the Palestinian
perspective as well as a Jewish person and a former Zionist.
So those are two really good examples.
They have a ton of knowledge. And then you've got you've got

(29:37):
so many podcasts, you've got Chris Hedges podcast, you've got
just look up, you know, like anybook on Noam Chomsky, another
person, right? So all of those scholars and
intellectuals have a massive collection on the genocide
that's happened in that region. And a lot of what Western media

(29:59):
says about what's going on there, they go into that book
about how a lot of that is kind of BS and that's not really
actually what's going on like inany way at all.
And then furthermore, if you have the knowledge, go ahead and
get involved in organizing meetings and, and speaking out
on Instagram, speaking out online and just doing what I'm

(30:21):
doing, being in an interview with you, educating people on it
and, and go to protests. I haven't been to any protests,
but I do plan on doing that at some point.
It's just kind of like try to find the time to do that and try
to be involved. And there's and the final thing
I'll say with that is you may have a lot of people that will

(30:41):
try to say that will try to tellyou, OK, you shouldn't do that.
It's not good for your career orsomething like that.
Like this is not going to, that's not a professional thing
to do. But we live in a democracy and
ultimately, like if we live in ademocracy, you should be allowed
to protest for the unspoken person, the person who's being
killed, right? So history will look, I think

(31:01):
look better on the people who spoke out on this conflict.
So please, please speak out. Please do not be afraid to speak
out. Don't watch the Y e.g. wave
videos of people being arrested by EPS.
Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to just get out
there. Be courageous, right?
And courage is the biggest thing.
I encourage people to have cause.
Courage is doing something despite the feeling of being

(31:24):
scared or despite the feeling ofbeing scared of what might come
for you. Just please just try to fight
for the people that are unheard.That's a big thing that can make
our society more empathetic. Yeah, courage is not going on
when you have strength. It's going on when you don't
have any. Exactly.
It's trying to do something thatis uncomfortable.
Yeah. That is not just thinking about

(31:46):
yourself, but for other people. Yeah, but I've heard people say
that. Oh, like, what is protesting
really do? It doesn't really do much.
If you will really wanted to help, why don't you join the
war? Why don't you?
What would you say to that? Well, I would say, well, I mean,
I, I would say that there is some truth in wanting to go to

(32:08):
that region and get involved. So that's kind of where I, I
will just mention briefly DM 25 is that they are a group that
I'm part of that actually have region people that have been to
that region. And so I've talked to this guy
named Bob who's actually been tothe West Bank and he's told me
about some of the stories of actually seeing how this, this

(32:30):
goes on and, and, and whatnot. So that's where you do, that's
where I think they're, that's the, that's the next level what
you're talking about. Cause protesting, that's one
thing. But, but again, there are some
people who might become really good protest organizers and then
they might stick to just being kind of protesting people.
But again, you're, you're makinga point by protesting because

(32:50):
you are putting it in front of people's face, right?
You're saying that I'm going to interrupt what's going on in
this little Tim Horton's parkinglot to say that.
And sometimes people do stuff that's illegal to try to make a
point that this is completely unjust, right?
Look at what happened in the 1960s.
How many black people had to protest illegally to try to

(33:13):
fight for the movement of black rights, right?
So that's what I think some people have to do in some cases.
And I think that ultimately history will look favorably on
the people that do risk a lot totry to stand up for these
people, even when it's protesting, a lot of people who
say protesting doesn't work. That's all a lot of the kind of

(33:35):
like hard right Alberta kind of spirit of like, oh, like that's
all that left wing wokeness or whatever.
And so we don't need any of that.
And, and so that's, that's purely just an ideological
problem that's got nothing to dowith the people who are trying
to fight for a cause and, and tocall them all these names and

(33:56):
whatever. That's kind of the way that a
lot some people in Alberta think.
But don't be afraid. Like whether or not people say
stuff, that's what I say. Yeah, and that case with
homeless rates and job loss within Canada going up, Like why

(34:16):
should we help other countries when we still got things going
on in our own country? That's a good point.
Yeah, I, I would, I would say there's, there's definitely the
homeless crisis and the housing crisis are another issue.
But again, that's why I'm left wing because I, because I'm not
saying I'm just a pure Palestinian cause person.

(34:37):
I'm on the left because that, because all those things that
you just mentioned, I've I've thought about very closely, like
the housing crisis and and all of that.
I mean, that's getting into a whole another can of worms with
homelessness and whatnot. But but like all of the domestic
issues, I also do have a stance on as well.

(34:58):
So like that's something that ifpeople ask me as well, I would
also say, well, there's issues there we need to address.
So I think that all of the issues of the, of housing,
domestic issues like homelessness and housing, and
then also international issues, that that creates a political
movement, right? Because you're not just
addressing 1 niche issue, right?Like, and that's where I do

(35:21):
agree with people that we shouldaddress all those issues.
So that's, so I, I, I agree withthat for sure.
I do agree with that. Yeah, no, I, I really want to
help other people too, but I'm under the belief too is I can't
help other people unless I help myself first.
I help my family and then it branches out to the next where I

(35:43):
help my local community and I help the city and the the
country. You know what I mean?
Yes, for sure. But I, I don't have much
experience with politics. I don't believe this is, as you
can tell, this is the kind of the first time I've really had
like an in depth conversation with somebody on the Palestinian
Israel war. Yeah, right.
But, you know, it is to help someone and actually be genuine

(36:06):
about it. You can't go wrong, whether it
be, you know, your family, your friends, the city, another
country. Yeah, it's like that.
That thought alone is like it's very powerful.
That's something that you can that can really help you in all
facets of your life. Yeah, 'cause you actually
believe in something. And if it's rooted in love and

(36:27):
compassion and wanting the worldto be a better place, then yeah,
maybe you are doing something right.
Yeah, yeah. And it just, you know, you have
just get a feeling from it, right?
Like a nuts. That's where it hits me home and
let and as a Christian, right? I see what's going on there and
it makes me very like sad, right?
And it just, it's, it is sad. And I think if you saw the same

(36:48):
thing, you would react the same way 'cause it's, it's, it's this
isn't the world that Jesus wanted.
This is not the world that he didn't want us to be divided in
this way. And I think we have to be very
mindful as Christians about thinking about what the New
Testament talked about. Because the New Testament was a
was a world where Jesus looked at the poor and he looked at the

(37:11):
lowest in society and he said that they are the most free out
of anybody and even compared much more so compared to the
rich. So we need to look at the poor.
I think in our society, we need to specifically focus on what is
it that they're experiencing andwhat is it that they're
suffering through, right? It wasn't Jesus didn't give his
power to the he didn't give it to the Pharisees.

(37:34):
He didn't go to them and say, oh, you guys are the chosen
ones, right? He said it to the prostitute.
He said it to the person that had leprosy.
And those are the people in society who are the lowest.
It's just, it's just a feeling that I have and I can't, I can't
help it. I just react to it and I have to
say something about it. Yeah, it's good, man.
It's definitely have done your research and you continue to

(37:55):
learn with every single day. And if as long as it's rooted
and your values, then you're going to fight for what's right
to you right. And yeah, man, if you abide to
kind of the the Christian teachings.
Of. Course, I've heard that society
or a world that would follow thethe commandments is like perfect

(38:17):
would be a utopia. Yeah, but we don't do that.
No, we are simple. We can't help that.
Yeah, yeah. But aim for Yeah, we can keep
trying and keep, you know, Yeah,doing our best.
Yeah man, 100%. How did you first come across
Marxist thought and what aspectsof it resonate with your values
around healing and authenticity?OK, so that's that's been more

(38:41):
recently. Marxism has been kind of a huge
Ave. to explore. But basically the biggest thing
was that, you know, as a kid, I'd I'd again like going back
into my history. Didn't really know a lot about
that. And I've I've been right wing up
until pretty recently. Like I've actually kind of been

(39:01):
a Jordan. I was a Jordan Peterson type
person for a long time. But but I just read, I just
started reading stuff and I juststarted looking into groups and
I started watching a lot of the intellectuals talking about
Marxism. So I eventually grew into it and
I kind of researched it and I kind of looked into what Marxism

(39:21):
is. And then I realized, oh, like
this is a legitimate, there's, there's an analysis portion of
Marxism and then there's also the actual portion of what Marx
wanted to view the world as. So the way that I see that it
kind of coordinates for me in terms of healing is that Karl
Marx want he envisioned a world where essentially people are

(39:44):
purely empathetic. People think in a purely
empathetic sense about others. And so his idea was that First
off, his analysis of capitalism is is so on point and so.
Grounded in reality, it's, it's,it's pretty incomparable to any
other analysis I've seen. And so the way that capitalism

(40:07):
alienates people and the way that capitalism destroys empathy
and others and destroys healing in the world.
He, he's, he's just like Gabor in the way that he explains it.
And so he, he just does this expert analysis on capitalism
that I find for me just really like completely speaks to how it

(40:28):
really works and how it actuallycauses so much suffering in in
the world. So this is where kind of like
his analysis of actually what hethinks the alternative is, is
kind of for me up for debate on if it's going to work or not.
Because the way that he envisioned the of the way he
envisioned reality to become was, I think maybe a little bit

(40:52):
in some aspects utopian. So I don't know if it's
functional necessarily. Because he believes that the
proletariat would essentially take over the government and
then the state would wither away.
So the whole idea of like the state withering away, I think
that human greed sometimes can get in the way of that.
I think that there is some people who legitimately might

(41:15):
undermine that process. I think though, that the aim
he's talking about is, is like in the sense of what Jesus talks
about, right? He was aiming for a world that
was a more empathetic world. Did we achieve that?
By no means we did we, but we are aiming for a world that's
closer to what the Bible talks about, like you said with the 10
commandments, right? It's like that's an aim we're

(41:36):
going for. We, we will never achieve it,
but we always strive to try to achieve it.
And I think Karl Marx's analysison wanting to, to eventually
have the proletariat takeover, which when I say proletariat, I
mean the working class take overthe government and essentially
the state and the government would wither away over time in
such a way that the distributionof the means of production would

(42:00):
be, would move all throughout all aspects of society and be
shared all amongst people. That's a great world to imagine,
right? Like in, in a, in, in your head,
right? Like that makes total sense.
Like, OK, like we should have itthat way.
But again, that's that's where for me, I think it is a very

(42:20):
healing idea to present that forward to the world, kind of
like what the Bible does in thatway, I think.
How would that impact innovationthough?
Innovation and the progress of technology?
Cuz the people who work harder in the capitalist society get
rewarded. You know, you, you work harder
than the other guy, of course you're gonna get make more

(42:41):
profit in your business. But then you have another guy
who's just slacking off, but he's supposed to get paid the
same. So I would argue that capitalism
in some, I, I would argue that there are areas where people
work harder and then they're rewarded for it.
But I would argue more often than not, capitalism does not

(43:02):
reward hard work very well at all.
Because that's, that's a, that'sa thing that in certain parts of
the world has actually been found to not really be true at
all. Because like, for example, the
amount of teachers you have in the United States that work
overtime and they work ridiculous hours to mark tests

(43:22):
and to, to, to work with their students.
But yet they are paid often below 50,000 a year, which is in
a lot of parts of the United States barely making ends meet
to try to pay for a house and for everything else.
And so this idea, I think that like capitalism pays the hard

(43:43):
worker, I think is not really true in the deeper sense.
Because you've got look at, I mean, we, we, the penance that
was paid to nurses during the COVID crisis, right?
And the amount of burnout that happened as a result of that.
I've, I've heard so many stories, right?
And I mean, that's what happens in those situations.
And we've seen pandemics happen like this where eventually the

(44:06):
people who work in the health industry suffer.
But are they paid more for that?Are they paid what they need for
that? I don't necessarily think so.
But again, even with innovation,right?
Like does does Elon Musk do it because he wants the money?
Or does he do it because he's passionate about it, Right?
Or did Picasso do his paintings because he wanted to be paid for

(44:26):
them? Or did he do it because he's
just creative, Right? Well.
We'll never know. I mean, they, you can clearly
tell that they're good at their craft, but unless you actually
live them and go in their minds,they could just be fronting and
they could just be, you know, saying they're doing it for a
cause or for the value or passion.
But they can all be for money. We never really know.
But they they got rich of it, like because of capitalism.

(44:49):
Well, I find for me that I don't, I don't think that I
don't know necessarily know if that is true because for me,
like when it comes to making music, like I'm not doing it
because I want money out of it. I just love it, right?
I just love the the act of just creating it right and just like
making it and just enjoying thatprocess.
I think even the same for you, like you're doing this because
you want to educate people. You're not doing it necessarily

(45:12):
for a profit in mind. You're doing it because you want
the world to become thinking long term, right.
That's the whole goal. That's true, right.
So that's that's where I think that we.
Dispenser, why are you making assumptions here?
Well, I. I I I'll just go off of what I
see you at I. I'm doing this to get rich baby.
Hey. Man, everyday, you know, I, I
know, I know that you do it because you love it, Matt, I

(45:34):
know you do it because you enjoyit.
It's it's obvious. And that's I, you always talked
at the gym about like you wantedto do it for making people think
long term and think about their health and think about their
lives and stuff like that, right.
So you're not doing it because you're trying to make a profit.
I mean and and that that whole idea here is that.
Yes, I do want. I do an inclination.

(45:54):
I want to add value to the worldand I want more eyeballs, more
listens. But like, I, I enjoy the
process, but it would be a lie to say that I wouldn't want
money off of it. You know, like I, I, of course
I'd want to be, you know, paid for sponsors and have YouTube
ads coming along. But you know what?

(46:14):
If that doesn't come, I'd still be happy trudging forward.
And that's, that's how people usually accumulate wealth and
give value to the world. And if money comes to them, it
comes. Rarely do people get rich off of
just focusing on money itself. Rarely, you know, it's like a

(46:34):
small percentage of people. But usually the great wealth
comes to those people that just do what they love and keep
going. But go back to the the
capitalistic society, right? Yeah, I can see how like
communist society would or wouldMarxism communism.
Yeah, I guess, well, I, I try tobe careful with the terms

(46:55):
because I don't see communism. Like I want to be careful about
how I see communism because there's also so many variations.
Like I, I think like more so like I go for kind of like a
syndicalist perspective, which syndicalism is a little bit
different, where syndicalism says that the workers unions
should like, like you, you obviously know what unions are.

(47:17):
Like a union represents the government.
Workers unions are much more empowered in our society
essentially. And also there's there's other
variations of socialism like social democracy.
So social democracy is like whatyou see in Sweden and Finland
and in like those Scandinavian countries, right?
Everyone knows they're very socialist minded type countries.

(47:39):
So in those countries you have like workers unions that are
much more prevalent and they're like, they have rights, like
actual rights. Like you see the whole thing
going on with Canada Post and the union doesn't really have
any rights in that situation. So, but I, I just, I do really
want to suggest off of the innovation point that like, I

(48:01):
see companies like McDonald's and KFC and, and all these
companies that produce all this fast food and I see capitalism.
They're not I, I see, I don't see any innovation in that at
all. Like right.
Now you just see people getting to get advantage of yeah,
through high sugar, high fat, making them sick, and they go to
big pharma. Like, I'm not really into

(48:22):
conspiracies, but I do believe that, you know, a lot of the
incentive with like a lot of thefast food restaurants, they're
incentivized for profit. And to do this, they need to get
the food higher and become more addictive.

(48:43):
Yeah, high sugar, high fat, justlike.
How do you think that those companies would exist in a
communist society? Probably people would still be
addicted. But do you think that, well, oh
sure. I mean, there's still addiction.
There's no doubt though, there will be addiction.
But will there be fast food chains right Like.

(49:03):
Fast food chains in a communist society.
Like, look at the Soviet Union right there.
Wasn't does all the money go to?All the money would go, well,
the whole point is that the money, it's equalized well,
well, well, let let me explain it in a more nuanced way because
I think like equalized is very general, right?
So for example, let's say that you have like all of the money

(49:27):
that came from a McDonald's typesituation and all the workers
associated with a very low end non skilled based job like that,
right? So all the money that put that
get that gets put into an industry like that is then
redistributed back to plumbers and steel workers and
construction workers and people that actually work real jobs

(49:50):
that actually provide real valueto the world.
So that's the whole point I'm trying to make is that we have
all this excess fat in our society, which I've explained in
our last, our last interview wasthis excess fat of our society,
of all the industries that actually don't provide any
value, a communist society, or let's say, let's just call it

(50:11):
left wing because I don't want to say communist would
redistribute all of those means of the, of the industries that
don't provide any value back to people who do essential work
like the crappy, super crappy jobs like plumbers and sewer
workers. Because you know, like, I just
don't think that like they get paid a lot.
But I, I think that they don't get paid nearly enough for the

(50:33):
shitty work that they do. Like, and my brother's in that
group too. And so take the money that's
from those industries that aren't providing really any
value and give them to the industries that are providing
serious value like nurses, doctors and people who actually
are, are making the world building things and stuff like
that, right. Because you have to give like,

(50:56):
because for those horrible jobs,I think, I think that there's
got to be more incentive, right?And, and so the, the jobs that
aren't providing any value, likeMcDonald's and all those
companies like just just go awaywith those because they're not,
they're not actually making the world better.
They're making the world less healthy.
And they're all doing it in their own interests.
I think honestly, one of the worst, and we can agree products

(51:17):
of capitalism is those type of companies.
Like no one can agree that thosecompanies are doing one any
favors. Yeah, I mean, there's the Ronald
McDonald House, which is like a really ironic that is.
Ironic. Yeah, that is ironic.
A lot of big endeavors with charity because they do have
excess money, yeah, but like, who gets this is decide how much

(51:40):
money nurses make in on a socialist society, you know,
like, who gets to decide that? And ultimately it's gonna be
with the leaders. And do you think they'll
actually have the people's best interest?
I feel like you know what I mean.
Like I, I don't, I don't actually really call for that

(52:00):
kind of system. I don't call for a authoritarian
top down socialist system. I call for.
For everyone chiming in and saying oh this is how would that
work? Like a whole.
Well, the idea of a socialist society is that the working
class is, is the one that's in power.
So like, for example, if you have a direct like the style of

(52:22):
democracy we have as a representative democracy, right?
And also what you're describing is actually the system we have
now where one guy at the top, like the governments who who
represent a group of people, call the shots for that group of
people, right? It depends which industry and
depends like according to the business.

(52:43):
Well, it does, but again, that system of of what you're
describing is that the system isdesigned that that person at the
top will make the decisions about the whole group, right.
So I'm calling for a system where it's, it's basically more
like unionized or more or less representative and more direct
to where let's say you have a business where they want to make

(53:05):
a financial decision about, about, about like a thing going
on, like they want to move into a new location.
Instead of a boss making that decision, it's a, it's a group
of, of people in the company that vote to make that decision.
That's the argument I'm trying to make is that the working
people of that company would vote on that issue and then say,

(53:25):
OK, we're going to go forward and then we're going to decide
if we want to invest in China orwe want to move our assets to a
different country or something like that.
That's I'm, I'm calling for a democratic workplace, a more
democratic workplace. And also then that leads into
the hospital world, the health world, the nursing world, and
all of those situations like unions of in, of people who work

(53:49):
in these companies that make the, that vote on all the issues
that go on within that organization.
And then so people actually havea voice in terms of what happens
in their workplace. It's not just the person who
above who just makes the calls. OK, Yeah, that makes sense.
But when a person starts a business, usually they they have

(54:09):
full control of the company. Yep, right, because it's just
one of them in a. Capitalist system, yeah.
But in this society that you're visioning, yeah, once another
worker comes in, even if the thethe first person, the one who
founded it, got it up to a $10,000 company, the person who

(54:31):
he gets on board would have equal ownership of that company.
Yeah, Yep. Because he, because he does,
because it's, it's the reason I say that that's right is because
think about all the labor that that person provides, because
it's like the, the way that that's presented is not fair
necessarily to the person who works in that company, because

(54:53):
they also provide all the labor they provide in their hours to
that company. And then that person who owns
that company has to take a profit from that person.
So technically, the value that that person provides to that
business owner, some of that value has to go back to the
business owner. So all the value you provide to

(55:15):
that business doesn't go back toyou.
Most of it doesn't like 80% of it doesn't like your wage is a
very small fraction of what you make for that company every
hour, right? So I'm saying that that person
makes that company and they correspondingly would get the
money for the labor that they provided for that company, the
labor that somebody else provides for a company.

(55:37):
Or, but that. That's subjective though.
It depends, you know, how much? Like how much does that labor
mean though? Well, it's well, I don't know if
it is subjective because if you look at the actual, the actual
let's say like someone works like me for example in a
restaurant, I move dishes acrossthis part and I spray them and

(55:58):
then I bring them back, right. So that value that I provide in
terms of like, all I'm saying isthat like the share, like I'm an
essential part of the company, right?
If I'm not there, the whole thing kind of shuts down.
If no one comes in who's a dishwasher, the whole place
goes, right? The whole thing shut down.

(56:18):
But yet the way that the money is distributed in a company is
not based on that idea. It's not based on everyone plays
an essential part in this whole entire system, right?
It's based on that the person who owns the company is the most
essential aspect of that system.But that's not, that's not how a

(56:39):
company works, right? A company needs a massive
organization of people in order to operate.
And if, if a key group of peopleare missing, the whole thing can
shut down, right? And so I'm saying that the
money, the economics of capitalism is not actually based
on how our system works in termsof Labor, so, or in terms of how

(57:00):
a company actually works. Like, like, because something
works. And then the way a person's paid
is not the same in our society at all.
Like economics is not run on thesame model of how things
actually function. I I think.
Like you have to put in risk into account too, because the
founder incurred all the risk toget a loan, right?

(57:21):
They get a loan and if it fails,they have to declare bankruptcy
versus, you know, a person that just hops on board full time.
They make minimum wage. If they leave the job, if the
business tanks, they don't have to worry about anything.
They just leave. There's less risk.

(57:42):
The higher up you go, there's just the more responsibility,
right? More, more risk and like in
there. Well is well, that's that's
where I kind of wonder is the risk in is like there are like,
how do I explain this? Like the person that's
reinvesting in the company or let's say that they take the

(58:04):
risk in the first place, that risk that they took.
I think essentially you have to like, like, for example, if they
take the risk and then they pay somebody else, like they, they
pay for the means in order to start that company.
And then all of those employees are then paid by that person to

(58:26):
then run that company, right? That still the input of like,
for example, if you don't have any workers, but you just have
money, like let's say you have 100,000 to start company, right?
You this is also kind of just the fundamental flaw of
economics in our system, I think, is that you have the

(58:48):
money, but your money actually doesn't have any value if you
have no workers, right? Like, like, let's say you have
all the money in the world, but everyone, there's no one who
there's no workers, right? Then you can't do anything
because it's just you, right? So I'm, I'm, what I'm trying to
say is that ultimately, like, let's, let's go back to the time
before money existed, right? You had somebody who who had who

(59:14):
traded with you this in order toget this right.
And all of it was based on work like you had.
It's, it's not. I think ultimately the
fundamental thing that I'm trying to get at without
sounding ranty now a little bit is that labor is the most
valuable commodity. Money isn't the most valuable
commodity. It's actually labor if you think

(59:34):
about it, because, because if you see the labor somebody puts
in right, like you can't do anything without labor, nothing
will get done right. And so money has been stub kind
of like like it's been placed asthe ultimate goal.
But money I don't think is really money doesn't actually

(59:54):
holds the, the weight in realitythat capitalism puts on money in
terms of the value it holds. Because ultimately, like what
I'm trying to say is that socialism wants to also do away
with with money as well. Like it wants to do away with
any of those means that are all capitalist means of trying to
control people because because ultimately the value is on

(01:00:16):
labor. It's on the labor that is put
into building glasses or in building microscopes.
Or in like working in sewers, right?
Like none of that gets done if someone doesn't work the fields,
right? So I'm trying to say that like
the money, the whole idea of theperson who put in the risk money
wise, you need the workers in asinputs to that money that you

(01:00:40):
put in. So then that means that the
workers have to be there. So then why?
Why shouldn't they have? Yeah, I'm.
I'm not saying that the worker shouldn't have rights.
And of course, I, I, I agree with you that yes, this the
entire system would not be possible without the gears that

(01:01:01):
are turning. And that includes the the
cashier, that includes the waiter, that includes the
accountant, that includes the assistant, the one, the person
that takes the calls. But in a free market, right,
devoid of money, say money didn't exist.
Yes, I do agree with you that people barter.

(01:01:22):
They go, hey, I'll give you 2 kilograms of salt for this piece
of clothing, or I'll give you, you know, 10 kilograms of wheat
for mangoes. Yeah, yeah.
Right and it but again. I I.
Want a maize in there? Yeah, sorry.
I wanted to make it clear. I'm not trying to infer that we

(01:01:43):
should go to a barter back to a barter.
Type system, I get that, yeah. I'm just calling for workers
rights. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But what I'm saying is. When that contact.
And yeah, after that system, there's always just going to be
somebody with more mangoes, you know, with more silk and there's

(01:02:03):
people working on on their property noticeably.
How can you eradicate the top down system without actually
just forcing people to do it? You know, it, it's, I feel like
it's like a mindset shift. No 'cause like I think they're
like, think of this podcast for instance, right?
I'm starting it. I'm episode, this is episode 135

(01:02:25):
and I've put in like 6 hours perepisode, probably more than that
from like their countless research and maybe I start
getting getting money for it, right.
I've put in thousands of hours, $0.00 start going.
Maybe it's exponential. Then I could take somebody on
the team who does the editing for me, take somebody to do the
camera work, take somebody to, you know.

(01:02:48):
Photoshop, but I would say and so this, but I would say, let's
say that YouTube strikes one of your videos, right?
And then they shut down your whole thing, right?
YouTube just makes that decisionkind of whenever they feel like
it. Like let's say that you post an
educational video on World War Two or something and they say,
oh, that had graphic content. You're you're on strike.
So YouTube at any time can take your whole entire business you

(01:03:11):
made and just shut it down on the spot.
They've done that with creators.That's happened like quite a few
times. Well, it's their rules.
It's them. I'm on their platform.
I'm playing with their their game, Yeah.
That that's, and well, while that's, that's where some people
don't know the rules of YouTube like that, that that rule, those
rules aren't explicitly stated when you sign up to YouTube,

(01:03:32):
right? And so, but also what I'm trying
to say is that like, so people like, like, are we OK with our
mainstream content sources censoring what gets put out and
what doesn't get put out and deciding what goes on and what
doesn't go on, right? Like should, should we just say

(01:03:54):
that certain documentary shouldn't go out because they're
offensive or certain media shouldn't be put out because
YouTube feels that it's not in there?
And, and make no mistake, YouTube's not doing it because
they think it's morally right tokeep people from seeing it.
It's because it might mess with their it might mess with their
profit agenda. So what I'm saying is that we're

(01:04:16):
all Kate like it. There's nothing wrong with like
wanting to have something in life, like to have some property
of your own in life. But I'm saying like that all
human beings have a moral compass, right?
Like I think at least to some degree, and not everyone to the
same degree. But I think like you, there is a

(01:04:37):
feeling of right and wrong in some situations.
And I think like, whether or notyou have that profit incentive,
it what you do. Sure.
But I argue that capitalism kindof creates a profit incentive
mindset in our brains. Like what I'm trying to get you
to think Advent is almost in theway of like all the things you
just mentioned are not be, are not even necessarily maybe even

(01:05:00):
you per SE. Because your whole entire life
you have been told that these are things you have to focus on
to survive. And you do have to survive in
this society by focusing on profit, by focusing on all those
things. But I'm saying like, if things
are distributed correctly in society, your mindset would
shift. It would totally shift all.

(01:05:20):
Civilizations that have like to this day, it's capitalist,
right? We've, I don't think we've had a
person more. So than others.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like from time and time
again, a system that isn't capitalism has failed, you know,
crumbled. And maybe we then there's also

(01:05:42):
an argument where, hey, this capitalism right now, we could
still fail. You know, like the with the
inflation rises rising and all these kind of the rich and the
poor kind of going, getting moreand more divided, it can still
be a possibility. Yeah, that's exactly it.
Throughout history, it seems like the free market capitalist

(01:06:06):
system has all that has succeeded.
Well, I mean, the thing I would argue is that we, when we moved
from slavery to feudalism to capitalism, the next logical
step, like when you have capitalism and you have kind of
what has occurred out of capitalism, that was a response

(01:06:28):
to feudalism, right? That was a response to a time
where there were slaves and essentially the the masters of a
region told the slaves what to do.
You had no rights. You just lived and towed the
fields for your whole entire life.
You were told what to do. You didn't even have money
value, right? Everything was told to to you
what you do. And they gave you a percentage
of the wheat that you made or a percentage of the meat that you

(01:06:50):
produced. So that system then moved to
capitalism from feudalism because then people said, OK, we
can make machines, right? We can make stuff that makes the
means of production, right? So feudalism moves to capitalism
because of the fact that there is a shift towards machines and

(01:07:12):
factories, right, that create things.
And then we move into what we have now with the industrial
revolution, all of that I just described, right?
So that means then that those things are then controlled by
managers and workers and then they will take an incentive.

(01:07:32):
That's that's where it kind of gets weird for me is because
then now the money system comes into play and then the money
system says, OK, like the peoplewho work in these jobs and then
they work in those jobs, they don't get nearly the same amount
of money. And again, you're talking about
the whole thing of the rich and the poor, how it's moving slowly
away. That's, that's exactly, that's

(01:07:55):
exactly what I'm trying to get at, right?
Is that, that's, that's the problem right there is that
especially when you noticed how like, cuz, for example, 2008,
right? Every, a lot of people know
there was a huge financial crisis, right?
That happened because the banks in the United States took huge
risks on, on specific types of Ithink subprime mortgages on

(01:08:17):
housing in the in, in the UnitedStates that ended up actually
backfiring because they were so risky.
They took so much risk so quickly that a whole bunch they
used when I say risk, they used their own customers money to pay
for these to pay for these investments that they made that
totally bailed out were totally,totally didn't even work.

(01:08:40):
So a whole bunch of people lost their job because these banks
made the decision to spend theirown customers money on on these
investments. In a socialist society, those
people would have had the rightsprotected that their money would
not have been used for spending on kind of any risky investment
that the bankers felt that they could invest.

(01:09:00):
And Canada has a very regulated system that way where we didn't
suffer nearly as much in 2008 because our system is much more
regulated. I don't think it's regulated
quite enough because everyone's talking about housing right now.
That actually spiraled out of control starting in 2008 because
Canada, the Bank of Canada decreased their getting to

(01:09:26):
economics, but they decreased the whole entire interest rate
of money that they sent out to banks to try to incentivize the
economy during that time. And that caused all of the real
estate companies to just skyrocket the housing prices in
Canada. Our housing prices are like 3
times as high as any other majordeveloped country.
Canada is literally impossible to live.

(01:09:47):
And I talked to everyone here, they're talking about the
housing problem, right? That was all I think because of
neoliberal tactics, because the real estate companies in Canada,
and when I say neoliberal, I mean capitalism.
The real estate companies in Canada starting in 2008 saw, oh,
OK, so the mortgages, the, sorry, not mortgages, the

(01:10:08):
interest rates are going down. OK, We're going to increase the
housing price to be competitive.And then so all of the housing
real estate companies are alwaysdriving prices higher and higher
to try to get people to buy like, well, not to try to get
people to buy so they can make more money.
Essentially, they're not trying to sell it so that people get
houses, which is what the government's trying to fix.

(01:10:29):
And hopefully they actually willjust try to maybe maybe look at
something that might be a different system that what we
have. It's just not working is what
I'm trying to say. And so and so that's where I
think that you look at that 2008situation was a very direct
example of how capitalism totally failed.

(01:10:50):
Do you see any connections between trauma, especially
intergenerational trauma, and the system systemic inequalities
that Marxism critiques? Sorry, can you just repeat the
question one more time? Do you see any connection
between trauma, especially intergenerational trauma?
Yeah. And the systematic inequalities
that Marxism. Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

(01:11:12):
Well, well, because The thing is, is that IT families are much
more prone to intergenerational trauma, I think because of the
alienation that capitalism creates.
So you've got so much work stress, right?
And that is what kind of harborsthat addictive process in the
brain, right? Like you've got so many of these
families who can't show up like for their kids, because they're
so focused on work. They're so focused on trying to

(01:11:33):
make the grind and make the cut and trying to pay their bills
and all this stuff. They can't even show up for
their kids. They don't have time to show up
for their kids. And it becomes impossible to be
a parent in the modern day because you have so many of
these external forces that are telling parents you need to make
sure, well, not telling them, forcing them to essentially
focus on having to work overtimeto try to pay for their kids

(01:11:57):
school and all of this stuff. So a lot of those rights that,
that that people have are being totally infringed.
And not just rights, but also just their dignity, which, you
know, you, you worked a job at one time and you got a good
wage, right? And that's because the companies

(01:12:18):
of the old era actually, and my dad talks about this all the
time, companies didn't operate the same way they do now with
just so much profit incentive. Companies operated because they
actually wanted to serve people,right?
Like companies were naturally socialist more so than they are
now. They just thought that way
because they thought, you know what?
Human beings deserve dignity andwe deserve to pay people a good

(01:12:39):
wage. That's just the way that the
world looked at things. But again, this is just where
that toxic mindset comes in and almost that addiction to money,
right? Like we look at the addiction
issue, like look at and, and thetrauma created by people who
force other people down. That's partially because of the
addiction that a lot of these millionaires have to this money

(01:13:01):
scheme that they've developed and the amount of power that
they get out of it, right? So the biggest way that that we
address that is just again, by becoming educated on it and just
becoming aware of just how destructive that really has
become and how the profit incentive has kind of destroyed
people's ability to, to think freely and to think about maybe

(01:13:22):
living a, a better life where their, their needs are
addressed. Because you can be a person at
the top and you probably feel really cozy, but there's a lot
of people at the bottom who don't feel cozy.
And that's that's the wide majority of people in most of
these countries in the world. Some critiques say Marxism is
outdated or idealistic. What do you say to people who
dismiss it without understandingits core ideas?

(01:13:45):
Yeah. So I do agree that there are
there are some parts of it that are a little bit kind of
outdated, like I'm and and I'm more talking about the portion
of where he suggests we should go and less so the portion of
the analysis of capitalism. He does like a exceptional
analysis, but that's where I think Marxist miss the point is

(01:14:09):
that he his what he talks about,I don't think is an ideology.
I think it's a particular type of analysis because he suggests
that the state should like thereshould be a dictatorship of the
proletariat, which essentially means that the working class
will take over the government. It's a weird way to describe a
dictatorship, but the working class takes over the government

(01:14:31):
and then eventually, because theworking class takes over the
state will eventually wither away because the working class
will have the people's interestsin mind if they're in the
government, if that makes sense.So it's it just might not.
I just think that that system, it seems really idealistic

(01:14:54):
because human grade is just so prevalent that like they're
always will be probably someone who will try to undermine that
withering away of the state, that attempt to try to remove
state power and to try to removehierarchical structures.
There's always there's going to be players who are going to try
to like undermine that that process.
So I think that his idea of where the world should go isn't

(01:15:17):
necessarily realistic, but I think that his analysis that he
does on just the failings of capitalism are very relevant
today. I would say that they those are
the applications where it'd be harder for someone, I think, to
argue if they looked into cap, into Marxism, how that part

(01:15:40):
would be outdated, I would say. Yeah, the the workers taking
charge and making the decisions,right.
Ultimate, you're going to have someone to to want to profit
more than the others, right? It's just human greed.
It's just how we some people arejust be bad apples.

(01:16:02):
But how do you how would you deal with those people?
Or according to Marxism, how do you deal with that?
Well, the biggest thing is that like you look at the way that
the government would implement these strategies, because the
government can take can, can have the power to change that
particular system. Like, for example, the

(01:16:26):
government decides how regulatedan economy is, right?
And the more government control that there is, the more
possibility there is that somebody can, the more
possibility there is that workers are represented, right?
That there's more distribution of power, right.
And when I say distribution of power, I also mean distribution

(01:16:48):
of wealth, distribution of the means of production, right?
So this is where you have to payattention to who's being
elected. And, and the reason why I
emphasize the working class in everything I say is because the
working class are where the morality is in society.
Like you're always going to havepeople who think more morally

(01:17:08):
and people who think more clearly and they're in like the
moral side of things on the working class side, on the power
side, there's going to be more of a profit discussion and all
of that's kind of more profit focused discussion conversations
they'll have. So that's where socialism calls
on the working class to unite because of the idea that not the

(01:17:31):
idea, but just the fact that working class people are, are
going to think about the price of bread, the price of groceries
are, is my family going to be able to afford it?
Right. So, and also furthermore, it's
just the, the, the thing that you have to, to realize in that
kind of question of the, the person who's being greedy is

(01:17:52):
like, there are going to be people who are greedy.
And then so you have to address it by you just have to I think
you have to just think about it like this goes back to the
healing portion, right? Because the healing portion of
the conversation is where ultimately you realize like,
yeah, this is where you're just you choose to be empathetic,
right? You choose to be the person who

(01:18:12):
says I'm not going to be purely power and profit focused.
Like Gaber, mate, this is what he talks about is very key in
healing is that that profit and power in many ways, like you
have to survive, but past survival, like now you're doing
it at the cost of somebody else,right?
So like each according to their need and each according to what

(01:18:33):
they bring is what does the quote Marx gives, right?
So that makes sense. And that's a very empathetic
thing to make. And and again, so like what
you're saying, there's going to be greedy people and that is
part of reality, but it's it's how you react, right?
It's all about the decisions youmake.
So if you decide I'm going to fight for politics that calls
for the sharing of production and the sharing amongst people,

(01:18:54):
then then that's going to be theforce that goes against the
greed and in society, right? Is that that's the idea, like is
that you try to be more empathetic and and think?
That way and you know what? I I've never been like a very
materialistic person, like as long as I.
Get that sense? Yeah, as long as I can hit the

(01:19:15):
gym, talk to people. Here.
Man, eat good food. You know, it doesn't even have
to be good. Like, it just has to, like, be
healthy. Yeah.
Yeah. Like then I'm happy.
Yeah. But then I noticed there are
some people that I've talked to that want to be more, more,
more, more, more, more. Enough.
Yeah. Don't get me wrong.
I want a house one day. I want a a nice car.

(01:19:38):
Right. But you're nothing too much.
You know, I'd be. That's it, right?
I just want to feel connected. Yeah, right.
That's it. I guess, you know, housing and
then starting a family is like that.
Yeah. But like, I guess society is
going to want you to move in a direction where a lot of people

(01:19:59):
revel in your greatness, right? Because we have this, these
idols. Hollywood is like that.
A lot of academia, a lot of justeven podcasting, Right.
And celebrities, there's all these moguls that just take over
the sphere and make it look likeit's all, all the goodness in

(01:20:20):
life is, is all there. But it's not.
Yeah, it is not. I see a Jim Carrey and he went
through his did. Did you see the clips of him
going through the nihilism phase?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
And he had the. Quote of like, I wish everybody
got everything they wanted to know that it's not, it's not.
It's all about Yeah, it doesn't.And I always think about that.

(01:20:42):
And there's even a clip of Will Smith talking about there's a
rock bottom and there's a Cliff top.
And that was like profound to me.
Like, what do you mean by Cliff top bowl?
And it's like where everything you've ever wanted materializes
and you're there and it's lonelyup there.
And you, it's, it's, you can't get any higher and you're

(01:21:04):
looking down and it's sad. And every day it's just
crumbling down. Yeah, well, I mean, look at the
look at kind of the issues he's had in his family, right?
And look at just how much conflict he's dealt with just
being such a high performer. And so that's I, that's where in
the sense you, you, you do actually have what I would argue
is even further than what Marxist says, that you actually

(01:21:25):
have alienation within the rich,that there's an alienation of
what they do. And they know that, right?
And they, there's, there's a deep sense that there's a lot of
things that when you're at the top, you realize how little
people are there with you. And then there sometimes are
celebrities that wake up, right.They totally wake up to that.

(01:21:46):
Like there's, there's an MMA fire MMA fighter I just found
recently who's now a communist. He's like, he's, he lives in
Russia, he's with the Communist Party.
He's was a super rich guy, but he like had a 27 and five record
or something. And now he's, he's like full
blown anarcho, anarcho communist.
So it's, that's kind of what happened to me was like, you

(01:22:09):
know, I, I obviously live in a very rich part of the world.
Like I would not benefit nearly as much in the communist state
compared to someone in a much lower position.
But that's, that's where I look at the, the thing you just
described. I just, for me, I just need a
gym. Like I need a little food on the
table And, and honestly, like maybe you just like a laptop and

(01:22:33):
like, I really have been very comfortable living like that.
Like I don't and I go to work, Itake the bus to work.
I don't even drive. So like that to me is a very
like that, that's a system that's pretty functional with
like socialism, like the way that socialism talks about
things is just people that live really simple lives and just
like, you know, they don't need much, right?

(01:22:54):
Like you don't, you don't need alot to be happy.
I found that for me. And so that's why I think in
that political way, that's why my politics are the way they
are. And this MMA fighter he just
went to isn't. Russia bad, yeah.
Well, he, well, no, he well, I mean, you know, Russia's
Russia's bad in their government, right?
Like he's he's this guy's whole story is obviously there's a

(01:23:16):
whole can of worms with it, but he's not involved with Putin or
anything like that. He's just living there because
he was trying to find people that were kind of like like the
old communist group and stuff like that.
But he became an article communist as he described,
because he noticed that he, whenhe went to all these communist

(01:23:38):
parties, it was all parties and like guys drinking expensive
wine and people, you know, like living like royalty.
And that was the biggest problemwith the USSR was that the USSR
actually, they became that society where the people in
government were actually so muchmore powerful than the people of

(01:24:00):
the region like the the people of the Soviet Union who are the
working class of that region. Like that's I think where you
totally can fairly critique the Soviet Union.
Now, whether or not you then saythat communism is bad is not
fair. I think it's not fair to make
that call. So you do have to, you do have
to make that distinction. And that's where this guy does

(01:24:23):
make that distinction, where he talks about anarchical
communism, which is based on thewritings of some people like
Peter Kapotkin. And he wrote a book which I'm
reading right now called The Conquest of Bread.
And so that calls for anarchism is actually a left wing idea.
A lot of people think it's like far right, right.
It's, it's, that's a different type of anarchism.
But anarchism is basically saying, let's question the

(01:24:47):
structures, right? Let's question the, the
hierarchical structures of the world, right?
Which in a sense I'm an anarchist.
Like I, I'm like, OK, look at, look at how that system is,
right? Like it's you look at the United
States government, right? Like, and you look at the way it
operates and the way things are done.
And you could imagine how some people are anarchist, right?
Like how they do see it that way, right?
So that's just where that's that's kind of where he was.

(01:25:10):
That's where he was saying he deviated from just full blown
communism because it can become authoritarian, right?
Yeah, so let's talk about DMDI EM25 or DMDMDM.
Yeah, So what drew you to DM-25,and how does its goals align
with your personal mission of authenticity and meaningful

(01:25:31):
change? Yeah, so DM 25 was started by a
guy named Giannis Farafacus. So Giannis Farafacus was the
final finance minister of Greeceduring their financial crisis in
2011. And essentially Giannis
Varoufakis was elected in with the the Suprietsa party in in in
2011. And they were a radical left

(01:25:53):
wing party that took over duringthe crisis.
And he was the finance, he's an economics guy.
So he was ousted out of that. Like kind of like he voluntarily
left the party because they kindof took a whole different
direction. That was not what they were
trying to go for, which was theywere trying to bring Greece out

(01:26:15):
of austerity, right? And so the problem was, was that
Greece was in a debt crisis and the EU kept giving them loans
and send then it's like, you know, you get take a credit card
out of the bank and then the bank says, OK, we'll give you
another credit card to pay off that credit card, right?
That's the problem Greece was dealing with.
So then they actually do that again, right?

(01:26:38):
So 2012 comes and then the government takes another deal.
So then he resigns because he sees, OK, the government doesn't
actually want to deal with the crisis.
So he starts DM-25 and DM-25 basically initial the acronym is
Democracy in Europe Movement 2025.
It pushes for by this year a situation where would they
create a radical democracy in Europe.

(01:27:00):
So essentially the EU is reformed in such a way that
there is much more vote based system amongst the people of all
of these countries so that they can vote directly on issues.
So the question is like, oh, whyCanada?
So this is where then that system we want to translate into
Canada. So we're the Canadian faction of

(01:27:22):
DM-25 and we're not a party, butwe're just like a collective at
this point. And the goal that we're trying
to achieve is that we will bringradical democracy into Canada.
So there's more voting on actualissues going on that are in like
the workplace, in government andthat it's not a representative

(01:27:44):
democracy. And, and we want to call for the
form of democracy that's closer to kind of what the early Soviet
Union was before it all became ashithole, was the system where
there were people that were on councils and essentially the
councils would make decisions about what happens in each

(01:28:05):
aspects. There's a police council, a
hospital council, a economics council, a Business Council,
there's a health council, right for all aspects, aspects of
society. And each member of that council
is randomly picked from citizens.
It's all citizens that run the council.
It's not a technocracy where it's just experts.
So like me, and you could potentially be called on to be a

(01:28:29):
part of the council. So then politics would kind of
become more prevalent in people's lives.
People would think more about them, more about politics.
And if a person is found to not be fit for the job, they can be
ousted at any time and then another random person is
selected. So then it's kind of pure, like
it's purely representative of the working class in terms of
like decisions are made in the interests of not just what a

(01:28:53):
Mark Carney thinks about how theworld should work or how a
Justin Trudeau thinks it's people who are working in the
society will make the calls. That's kind of why I follow DM.
So they you can just get ousted and at any time.
Yeah, Anytime. Yeah, at any time.
If, if people feel that you're not, if people feel you're not

(01:29:15):
fit for the job. Yeah.
And then another random person is selected essentially.
OK, Yeah, through and I assume everybody has to vote.
Hey, is that? Is that a?
Is that a? Must it's not that everyone, I
I'm not we're, we're not clear on that yet because again,
we're, we're just working on ourmanifesto right now.

(01:29:35):
We're, we're, we're not like fully formed on all of those
decisions. But at the meetings, my take is
that we should not force everybody to vote because like,
for example, if someone's like at a meeting or something, if
everyone's forced to vote on a financial decision about like,
let's say some asset that's sentto China for a company, not a,

(01:29:59):
not, not everyone's going to care.
So like then if people who don't, who don't care but vote,
they're not going to be able to make an educated position on
that issue, right? So the whole thing, thing I
would say is that people should only vote on, on what they care
about, right? So like if there's an issue that
comes up like Palestine, Israel,everyone should have a vote.

(01:30:19):
Who cares about that issue, right?
Who cares about what's going on there?
And then, and then, and then. It's not like you're forced to
vote on stuff you don't care about, right?
How do you think radical democracy, especially in
workplaces and communities, can help people feel more seen,
heard and empowered? I, I think the biggest thing is
that that people will just feel like they will have a voice,

(01:30:41):
right? So like when it comes to an
issue made where like let's say the wages, right, Like people
feel like they'll have a voice in wages, They'll they'll be
able to be heard in terms of like, OK, you know what, like if
I am providing like I want to know how much I'm actually
providing in labor per hour, right?
And then like, let's say a company doesn't audit or
something and it's found a person makes 90 an hour, but

(01:31:02):
they provide their pay 20 an hour, right?
So the person has a voice then in this distribution of profits,
right? And, and so it just, it would
create more democracy because ultimately in the West, we talk
about democracy, but I think we need to pay attention closely to
how much we actually practice democracy, right?

(01:31:25):
Like how much we actually practice the democratic process
in, in everything that we do andin how we live our lives, right.
And that's where I think radicaldemocracy and, and, and the type
of democracy I'm talking about would call on system where we
would be more democratic becausewe call for that in our world.

(01:31:46):
But are we really that way? That's the kind of the thing I'm
trying to raise, right? So in Canada, movements like DDM
25 are less known, but what would it take to build that
momentum for a system of deeper democratic participation here?
Well, that's a good question. I think, I think that the way
that that would happen is we have to, we have to look at the

(01:32:12):
way that the system is now and we have to kind of adjust
accordingly. So like depending on the party
that gets elected into power, that kind of determines what
happens, right? So it all depends on like the
party's position, like any partythat goes into power, like that
party is on the particular mandate.
And so DM-25 goes into power andlet's say that happens, right.

(01:32:37):
Then the idea would be that thatthe system would be reformed
like that. The people who go into power
would then restructure. Like for example, there's a lot
of left wing movements that callfor the Senate to be removed
because the Senate is not made-up of elected people.
It's made-up of people who are are are liked by the Prime
Minister and then he chooses whogoes into these groups.

(01:33:00):
So that might be done away with,right?
And so, and the idea is that it's more democratic.
So the system would operate thateveryone who's in power is voted
in. They're not person that are
liked by certain politicians or people that have a lot of money
or people that are close with certain family there.
It's all people that are voted in by the people.

(01:33:23):
So all aspects would be that right.
And so the police, the police chief is voted in by the people.
Like for example the the this the head of the RCMP is voted in
by the Canadian population rightinstead of how it is now.
So this is like all in government institutions and kind
of services. Well, then it yeah.

(01:33:45):
And then it would move into thenit would move into services,
right? So it would move into hospitals,
right. People have a voice on who's
voted in as the Minister of Health.
And then, for example, in a, in a hospital, the head of that
hospital is voted on. Who is the head, right?
And, and kind of who decides on who that would be?
And, and in the case of what I described earlier about the

(01:34:09):
council democracy, that then would be kind of voted on who
then is like ousted, right? Because it's the ideas that if
you're randomly selecting peoplewho are chosen in, people still
vote on who decides who actuallyhas power.
Because if they don't like who'sin power, then people will vote
and say, OK, I don't like what they're doing right now.
And then another person will go in.

(01:34:30):
So it calls on. That's what radical democracy
would look like in a in, in a practical sense of kind of the
image of what we're trying to gofor.
Oh, dope, man. Yeah, yeah, I could definitely
see like the treasurer, the secretary, the Prime Minister,
every single person is voted in.But I think it it'd be more like

(01:34:51):
a time constraint to and like the the efficiency.
But I, I could say I could see in the long run how that would
be better. Yeah, long run.
I just don't know if it'd be possible, you know what I mean?
But of course there's, you're still thinking of it and you
guys are still sharpening the the sword.
Yeah. The sword, Yeah.
So. And we're, and, and, and that's

(01:35:12):
in terms of what you're talking about with, with the whole
process of time constraint. We recognize that.
And that's kind of where we are hoping to also implement AI into
government into, into democracy as well.
So AI might automate a lot of those questions of how we deal

(01:35:32):
with situations that come up, like for example, in an
emergency, right? You have emergency group.
Like one thing we were thinking is that, or at least I'm
thinking is that we have a groupof the council that operates
normally in, let's say the government who are again, those
randomly selected people who then call on some kind of

(01:35:54):
emergency council groups. So COVID-19 happens, they call
on an emergency council that then deals with the COVID
crisis, right? And that council that operates
that can tell them at any time, we're shutting you down, we're
closing you down at any time. They can close it off if they
want to, right? But that council comes in as an
emergencies deal that might justdeal with the crisis quickly and

(01:36:17):
then have that thing. Because again, what you're
talking about with time constraints is the main thing
that we are are trying to kind of like focus on in terms of
emergencies and crisises becauseyou you might not be able to
vote on all those issues very quickly.
So, so in a crisis then yeah, you would have a emergencies
group that says, OK, you're going to call on and you're

(01:36:39):
gonna be called on and to deal with this.
But then we can they have the power to revoke them at any
point in time, right? Yeah, thank you, man.
Thank you so much for coming on the Long Term Podcast.
Yeah, yeah. I really appreciate it, man.
Thank you for letting me speak on this and just kind of give my
thoughts. Yeah, yeah, hopefully I wasn't,
you know, I actually asked the right questions and actually

(01:37:00):
that your story out. I, I honestly, I'll be totally
honest with you, I, I probably didn't get the most amount of
sleep tonight, so I was really hoping that I made coherent
sense and I totally tried to give.
The points I best very thorough man you, you are very educated
and the topics that you're passionate about.
Thanks and I. Like.

(01:37:21):
A year ago or when we first met,like a couple years ago, Yeah.
How do we meet? Yeah.
Like through Anytime Fitness? Yeah.
Yeah, dude, I totally three years ago.
Yeah, 3/4. Years ago I totally forgot about
that. Yeah, that's funny.
And then now we're here, Hey. And you're a totally different
person 3-4 years ago. Now you've really sharpened the
sword. And yeah, I try to turn your

(01:37:43):
life around and you're going forit.
And I think you're you're on on to do amazing things.
Thanks. Yeah, thanks.
Yeah, thanks for having me on. I really, I really appreciated
it man. Yeah.
Do you have any last words for the viewers listeners?
Get educated, just just just getout there and just learn about
what you were passionate about and, and be open to trying to

(01:38:05):
think about others. And, and I just say, like,
there's a lot of suffering in the world.
Let's let's try to do what we can to try to work with people
to fix it. Yeah, stop scrolling on TikTok
so much. If you do choose the right ones,
choose. The right, you know, just
educational stuff. Yeah, and as always, to everyone
listening and watching, there isa place for you in this chaotic

(01:38:26):
world. Never lose hope, strengthen your
faith and keep it long term. Spencer Cummins, everyone.
Peace. Sweet, awesome, sweet.

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#135 - Spencer Cummings - You Need to Know What’s Happening in Palestine & The Hidden Damage of Capitalism

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#135 - Spencer Cummings - You Need to Know What’s Happening in Palestine & The Hidden Damage of Capitalism