#142 - Samira Schultz - What It Takes to Create Genuinely Inclusive Spaces (Not Just Surface-Level Ones) - Long Term Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I like not even realizing, but like conforming to the voices of
those that were giving me opportunity.
Get rid of all your anxiety because this is the best you
could have done. Right now, everyone was asleep
around me and I was just like biting my nails, like getting so
nervous. There's a reason why I'm in the
room and it's for those people around me to hear exactly what's

(00:22):
on my mind. I think there was one person who
was like, are you a Midget? I was like, what?
Yeah. And then I was humans have
limits and that they can't they can't be like a know it all of
everything. You clearly don't know what
you're saying, but you're just saying that to impress me.
I'm not impressed because, yeah,I do my research in this.
When somebody walks in with likejust a shitty attitude and

(00:44):
they're like, yeah, it just brings everyone down.
Exactly. I don't know, if I don't take
those skills with me to like andlike, imply or apply I meant to
say to everything that I do, then like those experiences,
it's become worthless. It's not because I want to be,
it's just because I have a lot on my plate.
Then I mean, in my eyes I feel like that's a lot more genuine.
Hello You Beautiful people. Welcome back to the Long Term

(01:07):
Podcast. I'm your host, Advan Villa, and
today we have an honors Political science student with a
philosophy minor at the University of Alberta.
Through her roles as AVP External Woman in Political
Science and VP of Social Impact for EU of A Black Students

(01:29):
Association, she contributes to projects that center community
dialogue and equity on campus. She founded Mid Naimo, a growing
Black History Month initiative that brings speakers, performers
and classroom resources into high schools.

(01:49):
Program is built on collaboration with educators and
her to make conversations and around history and allyship more
accessible and meaningful. Samara also mentors through the
Boys and Girls Club, supporting youth and navigating school
identity and personal growth. Her approach to leadership is

(02:11):
shaped by curiosity, care, and abelief in building things that
last, especially when it comes to creating space or people to
feel heard and connected. We will discuss how to stay true
to yourself while doing advocacyor leadership work, making
political conversations feel more real and less intimidating,

(02:35):
and what it takes to create a generally inclusive spaces.
Spaces, not just surface level ones.
Everybody welcome Samira Schultz.
Welcome to the Long Term Podcast.
Thank you for having me. Yeah, Samira Schultz, everyone.

(02:57):
Yeah. So yeah, how's how's your day so
far? No, not too bad.
The I guess regular day with everyday working and working,
working. So that's how it's been starting
and then going to the gym. So yeah.
Workout was good. Yeah, workout was good.
Yeah, it legs so. Nice, nice.
Yeah. So with advocacy work, it can

(03:17):
often feel like balancing many voices and expectations.
How do you maintain your own voice and values and spaces that
may pressure conformity? Yeah, like this is, this has
been like a tough one because it's something that has like
developed through the years, especially because I started
advocacy work when I was kind ofyoung, like I was in high school

(03:39):
still. And when more opportunity
started to arise, that's when I had to think about this a lot
more because I was finding myself like, I like not even
realizing, but like conforming to the voices of those that were
giving me opportunity. Just thinking like that, that's
what's going to help because that's what's going to keep me
in the room. And then as I've like gotten

(04:01):
more comfortable in the room, that's when I realized that
that's not the way to go. So I think the way that I've
like granted myself and like, I guess my values and how I stay
true to myself during advocacy work is realizing that like,
there's a reason why I'm in the room.
And it's for those people aroundme to hear exactly what's on my

(04:23):
mind. And I just make sure that like
what I'm saying has backing and that I do like my own personal
work, like outside of the room to like bring in very valuable
stuff. So yeah, you've.
Done the work. You're there for a reason.
Yeah, right. And I get like that sometimes
too, where I have my own voice, right, my own opinions, and I'll

(04:47):
shift towards what everybody else thinks because I want them
to like me, you know, I want them to to be able to, you know,
be looking up to me. And we're on the same team.
It's a. Very natural thing for people to
do. But going against the grain,
though, that's where. It's like push happens.
Push happens and if it's the truth to you, if that's you

(05:08):
should keep fighting for it. Exactly.
Do you, How do you go about doing that though?
Like with backlash, right? Nobody's ever going to want to
change their minds as well. If you know you go at them with
just anger or you go with them with hostility, how do you go
about it? Yeah, I would say it's with
grace, with patience. It's really just understanding

(05:33):
that anger is not going to go anywhere.
People are not going to respond to me just raising my voice.
Like that's not going to make, like the point that I was saying
any more valid. It's just going to make people
think that I'm not a person thatcan like, work with them or I
can't be like a team player. So it's, yeah, like finding
where like where that person's coming from and why they are

(05:55):
pushing against like the opinion.
And most likely it could like, be because of like a
miscommunication or it's just simply that like, I, I could be
wrong. And then that's just an
opportunity where I can like, learn something and then that
could, yeah. Has that always been the case?
You said that where you could bewrong, like you're open to
change. I know for me, I've only

(06:16):
realized that recently where I make a mistake, right?
And I actually listen to other people and I actually do
something about it and admit that I'm wrong, which takes a
lot of courage. Has it always been the case with
you? I feel like I've had, I've had
my errors where like, like especially high school going
into university, I was like moreof a people pleaser.

(06:38):
It was like when I realized thatI guess maybe my, my point is
like now going sideways, I wouldlike just throw it away and be
like, OK, yeah, yeah, you're right.
Like sorry, like I am so wrong right now.
And then there's been, I would say that actually this has kind
of happened in the past like year.
And then I've like learned to kind of reel myself back where

(06:58):
I've now like erred on like stubborn side at times when I'm
like, yeah, no, my point. Yeah, like it needs to stay on
the table For these reasons. Like I because maybe like it was
points of me getting a little too the word.
Assistant or you said you're stubborn?

(07:20):
More like, I guess maybe I was going a little, I had like a
little bit of an ego trip at some points, like with all
honesty. But I've now, like learned to
have that balance and know that like, yeah, and people please
are that's not going to, like, get me anywhere.
But like, also the ego is not going to get me anywhere either.
So now it's like, it's like grace that I needed to remind

(07:45):
myself of. And like, I guess now I'm
thinking of like, you know, loveis patient, love is kind.
Like, can I put my name in frontof those?
Like, I guess, I guess smear being patient right now is smear
being kind. And if I'm not, then that's when
I need to reel myself in and then remind myself of that and
then continue on. Yeah, No, I was the same way in
high school, Like I it was either my way or the highway,

(08:07):
you know what I mean? And I guess I could, I really
relate to that because like in my friend group, I was, I don't
want to, I guess, I guess I can say it like I wanted to be the
leader. I was kind of like, I thought of
myself as the leader, right. And we there was, it was an old
democracy though, but I kind of pushed other people away and

(08:28):
instead of actually changing their lives for the better and
actually bettering the friendship, it was like a
dictator type of thing. And it wasn't until I lost all
my friends or I guess some of them stayed, but like told me
the truth. Wasn't until then where I'm like
OK, maybe I should be more accepting, right?
Yeah, 'cause like a true leader is one that like empowers others

(08:52):
to want, like to follow in thosefootsteps and like learn very
valuable skills from that person.
Not necessarily like be like, I guess the one on top and then
like have people feel like there's a hierarchy here.
And that's. Yeah, that's one thing that I've
definitely like gone that what'sthe word I'm looking for Just

(09:15):
like seeing those in like mentors and then like people
around me especially like at work.
Like that is like a huge value for us to be all at the same
level and like learn from each other to like build each other
up. And that's how like that's,
that's a leader. And yeah, I've just tried to
like carry that through to the other things that I do.

(09:35):
Yeah, that's, that's awesome. Our push, like as the BSA, is
just to promote like political literacy, like have people like,
form an opinion, like for themselves, but then give them
the tools to like, yeah, like, go about like understanding,
like what they are like absorb, absorbing, consuming.
That's what I meant to. Say, yeah, so how do they how do

(09:56):
they like navigate through our like towards all the different
types of information, right? How do we make a consensus as to
what's right for that person? Right.
And as a leader that you can't really tell someone, oh, you
need to be you need to be pro gun because this you need to be
anti abortion because of this. It's like they're yes, they need

(10:18):
like you can't make someone change their mind or you can
only give someone the tools to make the correct decision to
them. And like we live in a democracy,
right where, you know, the majority wins.
And no matter how many times you, you know, research a
certain topic, how much, how deep you believe in a 'cause

(10:40):
when it's a majority vote, that's what's going to be opted
for. And when you're a part of that
club, right? And all of most of you guys are
wanting to be lawyers, right? Most of you guys are in Polisci
and all that. There's like a mixture like with
the BSA, like there's us, like there's a few of us like in the
arts, there's a few of us in thesciences.

(11:00):
So that's like something that I really love because we're all
like speaking from very diverse backgrounds, diverse like
interests as well. And it does like shape what like
what we think towards like the university because each faculty
is receiving like different. Yeah, well, a lot of.
These people they're going to beable to you know, they're we are

(11:22):
able to vote being at the at EU of A right and.
Exactly. I guess clubs teach us a way to
be able to, you know, reach consensus as efficiently and in
a democratic way. That's very true.
Yeah. It's impossible for it to be

(11:44):
smooth sailing, though 'cause there's always going to be
disruptions along the way, 'cause not everyone's going to
think the same way as you. You know, no matter how many
times you read a book on leadership and compassion,
right, it's you're not going to please everyone.
Yeah. And how do you go about doing
that? I, I think, oh, I wait, can you

(12:11):
repeat the last thing that you said?
Yeah, there's like all these different opinions, right?
And you really have to choose one outcome and how do you go
about making the right decision despite the the backlash from
the minority within that group, even the majority?

(12:31):
Like, how do you go about the the disappointment from people?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
I would say that like we're fortunate to have like, I guess
with like the structure that we have, if it's like 8 people like
running one like portfolio and all.
So we are all like running very like diverse like sectors to the

(12:56):
group. So I find that like one
decision, let's say like it was a finance thing, like it's very
easy to just allow that person to like make that decision.
So with that, I think it's just like, it's a lot of just like
having trust in like the people around you and like knowing
that. Yeah, like maybe I don't know,
I'm not the greatest with finances.
But let's say in this situation,like the point or like the idea

(13:18):
that I brought forward got like shut down.
I I would be fine with that because I have trust in the
people that are like, are like the person that like brought an
idea and like their idea is the one that we're going with.
I know that it will end up yeah,would it would be a good
approach. How?
Do I build trust? Team bonding, I guess, yeah, we

(13:40):
do a lot of team bonding to be honest.
And that's like always just, I don't know, we just do like a
fun little thing. And through that we always end
up in like conversation and justlike getting to know each other
and getting to know like each other's character.
And from that like connection, it really translate into like
translates into the work that wedo.

(14:01):
And also just the quality of the, of what we do as well.
Because you see it like at events, like how we're working
with each other, like people, like general members can
definitely see that we are more than just like executives on
this team. Like we are like genuinely like
building friendships. So do.
You know what trust feels like for you?

(14:22):
Oh. That's a deep question for me.
I think, OK, I am like an overthinker.
And I find that like, yeah, if Ifind that like, I know that I
trust someone when like I barelyhave like a second thought about
what they're saying or what, like the next step that they're
choosing is going to be like, ifI know that like I hear what,

(14:46):
what's about to happen and I'm like, OK, yeah.
And like, I trust them for sure.I don't trust people that can't
say no. That's so fair, you.
Know, because if you are you going to, are you going to trust
their yes. If they can't say no, you know,
they're just saying yes to please you and they're just a
yes. It's like that yes, man, you
know, like, Oh yeah, yes, Mira, like you're great.

(15:06):
You're this. And then it's always what you
want to hear. Yeah, right.
So what is their the value to what they're saying?
It kind of diminishes, I think for me, I think trust is just
having no hidden agenda. You know, I don't know.
I've meant I've talked to many, many people that just don't have
my best interests for whatever reason.
You know, maybe they just they're jealous.

(15:27):
They just don't like me because of the way I talk.
Maybe they just, you know, I said something four months ago
that they didn't bring up which we could have talked about.
You know. It's like all these myriad of
reasons, but I think with the truth, though, as long as you
follow through with that and youyourself are confident that what

(15:50):
you're telling everyone is the truth and you're not trying to
be malicious, you know, that's, that's usually how I sleep at
night. Yeah, it's like, yeah, everyone,
there's these people that just don't like me, you know,
especially being in a leadershipposition, right?
You're gonna have people talkingshit like that's.
Just that's just how it is. It's like what Britney said this

(16:12):
like Tom, like I was so nice to Tom.
Like, didn't you see with my voice?
Yeah, but like he just didn't think you were.
You were being genuine. Like what?
I was being so genuine. What you talking about?
It's like they, like people can like just morph your intent by
the tone for whatever reason. Yeah.

(16:33):
Do you ever get that? Get that?
Yeah, I know what you mean. I feel like that goes back to
what we were saying about like come from like conforming to
like the groups around you. And then like also what I was
saying before about like coming in prepared, coming in with like
backing. And then also like, I don't
know, as as you keep working with these people, you're going

(16:55):
to see that people are going to start building like good track
records and that's going to alsobuild trust.
And like, that's like the only time where actually like that's
the way that like, you know, thesecond guessing thing, like
that's how it goes away. Because if I see that there was
like good, like good outcomes inthe past, then I'm going to keep
like trusting their like, yeah. And I like that too.

(17:18):
I heard this from Jocko Willink that like you shouldn't when
you're performing, get rid of all your anxiety because this is
the best you could have done, right?
If you actually put in all the work to the speech, you know, to
to the readings, then you equipped your yourself with
sleep and knowledge and good food and you went to the gym and

(17:41):
you optimized everything. Then once you're there on the
stage, you know, maybe you're given the speech, maybe you're,
you know, whatever it is in a leadership position, there's no
need to be, you know, insecure about it because you've done
everything you can. This is your best.
Yeah, right. This is this is it.
You've done all the work. Now if you didn't, yes, maybe

(18:04):
you should be anxious. That's but I think a lot of like
high performers such as yourself, who who want to be in
the leadership position, right. It's like since you're always
trying to optimize for everything, right, you kind of
like I get I get like this too, where like I'm preparing for
like this this podcast, You know, what am I?

(18:25):
What am I going to say and all this, But then wait, all those
thoughts are net negative. Yeah, who's?
Exactly, Yeah, Yeah. It's like knowing that like if
you've done it in the past, likeyou can do it again.
Like what? Like experience, like all the
experiences that I've gone through and I've like, I know
that I've gained skills from them.
If like I like, I don't know if I don't take those skills with

(18:46):
me to like and like imply or apply, I meant to say to
everything that I do, then like those experiences then become
worthless. Like I can say that like I've
done a lot of public speaking, but then like don't take what I
learned from from it. Like, don't shift my eyes around
when I'm, like, talking or make sure that I like stand strong.

(19:07):
Like I they don't do that, then people are not going to think
that. Like, I've done a lot of public
speaking just like as an example.
So yeah. You can like, talk to talk, but
you got to walk the walk. As well, Yeah.
And you got to, like, show up. Like, you can sit here and like,
yeah, I've been leader like, 1000 times in my life.
You know, I wasn't, I I've been in this, I've been in that.
But like, unless you actually goand show people, then it's all

(19:29):
just talk. Exactly.
Talk is cheap. Yeah.
Do you ever deal with imposter syndrome?
Oh yeah. Yes, like so much, it's gone.
It's gone a lot better I think. How would you describe it?
Actually, I haven't really put into words, but I think it's
just, yeah, it's like, it's not thinking that you deserve to be

(19:51):
in like in the room or like where you're at or like actually
the first place that my mind went to is like the beginning of
uni and like my political science classes.
I felt like I couldn't like bring up the most intellectual
thought because honestly, like before university, I didn't
really, I didn't really like. Read up on politics all too

(20:12):
much. But then there's some like
history buffs in my class that could like speak on like the
smallest detail of like World War 2.
John McDonald, you know, and exactly World War 2.
And that was just like, that wasn't me when I first started.
So yeah, that's like that wasn'tin that moment I was like, oh,
did I, did I pick the right degree?

(20:33):
I don't know, like. But then I realized that like,
I'm in university to learn and like I found where like my, my
strengths are still not honestlylike history all too much, but
like, I love, I love theory. I love like case studies and
applying those theories that like I've learned and yeah.

(20:53):
Yeah, yeah, I the common imposter syndrome in university,
right. I think I heard this
psychologist and he talked abouthow it's people get that feeling
is because every year you're like a different person, you're
kind of evolving and when you compare yourself from a year
ago, it's like a totally different person.

(21:15):
And when you're in the university, like being amongst
the people, you feel dumb. Like, that's certainly what I
kind of put my ego in check because here I was thinking, oh,
I was the GOAT. You know, I was there and I was
getting 80s and 90s in math class, and I thought, university
is going to be a breeze. Then you get there and you

(21:36):
realize that, oh, like, I was just swimming in a pond.
Yeah, there's an entire lake here.
Yeah, you. Know same with the big fish now.
Yeah. And then yeah, there's this
people with like 4 point OS and like I'm asking them a lot of
them have been on this podcast. I'm like, how do you do it?
And they're like, there's just everybody's got their own kind
of strength to and their own protocol, right?

(21:57):
And it's just so like at times Ido feel inferior and I'm like,
oh, sucks with this. But then it's like those
thoughts don't get you anywhere.Exactly.
Yeah. It's just like finding yeah,
like trust in yourself and like trusting that like where, where
you're at basically and knowing that you don't have to be

(22:20):
perfect, like right when you're like going into uni and.
Everything. Yeah, perfection is.
It's a killer. It's a killer, Yeah, 'cause like
I'm always thinking about like, perfection.
Like, what even is that? Is that like?
I mean, no, no human can be perfect, no.
Human can be perfect, yeah. So it's so, yeah, it's really
funny to me that like, everyone strives for perfection, then I

(22:42):
feel like everyone, it probably like, feels that like they know
that they can't be perfect. And that's not even like what we
should We should not be strivingto be perfect.
I heard this one guy say that atwhich point is an oak tree
perfect? You know what I mean?
That which like when you look atyour dog like an animal like

(23:02):
which we just think they're perfect.
You know what I mean? Like perfect in your own way
with the every single stage in evolution within their growth.
It's like, oh, either we're a puppy one time or like it was
like a little sapling and then now it's grown to the size.
But in in that in each stage wasa purpose for them up until you

(23:23):
know the site, the cycle of life.
That's very true. Yeah.
And then yeah, it's true. Like if someone is saying like,
oh, I want to be perfect, like what?
Like they like what are they comparing themselves to?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, and it's like day of
social media, right? You can compare yourself to
like, the top echelons of success.
Yeah, I can compare myself to like, Joe Rogan right now.

(23:44):
Like, wow, I'm such a tiny fish.Or I could just, I could look at
it objectively and go, yes, they're there, but I can still
keep on trying. And if it doesn't amalgamate to
something great, I least I triedand I won't have to regret it.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

(24:07):
And then like everyone, yeah, everyone like started somewhere
to like, even like Joe Rogan. Actually, I don't know much
about Joe Rogan, to be honest. He's.
Just like a comedian, UFC, like he's just popular.
He's famous because of. He just didn't stop.
Exactly. And like, I'm sure that, yeah,
there was a moment in his life where if he felt like what he
was doing wasn't gonna get somewhere, but then it end up

(24:29):
getting somewhere. So yeah.
Yeah, not crazy that like the people that we look up to were
in our position, like they were just like, yeah, like the the
top lawyers, top CE OS, like thebig people.
Yeah. But then again though, is that
some like, is that something that we should strive for?

(24:51):
You know what I mean? Yeah, like we should never like
strive to be exactly like our role model.
I think it's just maybe taking, I don't know, taking like
qualities that we really that wereally like like about them and
then seeing how we can apply or apply it to.
I don't know why I keep saying imply when I mean to say apply

(25:13):
like. They're they're the same like
imply, apply, imply apply. I guess it kind of.
Not that. Not that I don't know.
Yeah. Yeah.
And like, apply it to our own lives and then see how it, like,
uniquely adheres or. Yeah, like.
I don't know. Yeah, next to us.
No, I I get that. I mean, there's all these

(25:35):
protocols when it comes to studying, right?
There's like the Pomodoro method.
There is like inter live, inter live and study, studying where
like you'd block out like different topics and there's
like mnemonics and there's highlighting, there's
underlining. There's just, you know,

(25:57):
collaboration, asking the why for every single thing.
And there's like a mental framework that you can do to
memorize it properly, but it's not until you actually utilize
it like does it work for you? Like does it actually grow corn?
Does it does it amalgamate to something that you can that's

(26:20):
tangible, right? Or is it just because you saw
this, your friend that's ultra successful that you keep doing
it, but it's actually not doing anything for you, right?
It's like, if it works, just keep doing it.
If not, just discard it. And like with like all the
morning routines and all the allthe workouts, right?
There's there's endless routes and we get stretched into all

(26:42):
these different directions, but there, there is a workout for
you. There is a steady routine for
you. You just have to keep searching,
yeah. Exactly, and it might even be
something that's not even like, I don't know, like
scientifically like researched on, like, I don't know, like the

(27:02):
best like study session or study, I don't know, practice.
I feel like I've never I've never actually like followed a
like certain study way. Like I try like Pomodoro, but it
never works for me really. I find that like, it's just, I
don't know when I have used it, it's just been what has helped
me like realize how much time I've like, used to like work on

(27:24):
one thing, but I've never been like, OK, well, if my
understanding is like correct about how it works, like I
haven't actually like finished like the thing that I had the
goal of finishing in like 45 minutes.
And maybe it's just like the type of like work that I was
doing when I was like working onthat.
Cause like, let's say if I was working on an essay, I wouldn't

(27:44):
want to like rush apart just because I wanted to be done in
45 minutes because that's not going to get me the grade that I
would like or like, I guess the outcome that I would want of
that essay. But recently, I guess A1 study
method that I might use just because I found it randomly.
It's just like, like like playing maybe like a game.

(28:08):
OK maybe this is just me, my ADHD.
Like playing like a game in between, like doing something
because then. Subway surfer or something not.
Subway surfer, maybe like 2048 or something.
Call of Duty, like something like, I guess simulating.
I don't know, like I yeah, that was, that was my issue, like in

(28:28):
high school, like, and actually before until like I started
taking ADHD meds, to be honest, where like studying was just not
stimulating enough for me, even if I liked the topic, like I
just couldn't just sit there andlike breathe.
So I always was like, I needed like some second like
stimulation. So this year I'm like, OK, let
me just try like playing a game in between like practice

(28:51):
questions or like I finished like a little bit of like my
essay and I'm going to play a game.
I feel like when I say this out loud it sounds stupid.
No, no it's not. I think I I relate.
I mean I've never actually been formally diagnosed but I think I
might try that cause usually I do pomodoro which is like 2025
minutes study time and then 5 minutes break up until you're
done whatever task you need to do.

(29:15):
But lately I've just like been listening to the the meditation
music with no words and kind of make me want to work more.
And I like with the stimulation thing.
Like if it, if you have to, you know, play with a Rubik's Cube
as you're reading something, or just play Call of Duty zombies.

(29:35):
Yeah. You got to show me your games
when you're doing. I mean, I think the last time I
played Call of Duty was like years ago.
So I wouldn't be, I wouldn't choose that.
But you. Could just picture in in your
class, bring in your PS-5 just and.
Playing COD in class? In class GTA no.
I did play a lot of 2048 though in my classes.

(29:57):
Have you never played 2048 before?
What is that like a erase game? No, it's like like there's tiles
and you first start with like A2and A2 and then you like combine
them and it turns into a four. And then like the goal is to, I
think I've never gone to the 2048 block, but it's to create
like the 2048 block. So it just starts like, I don't

(30:18):
know. Check it out.
Is it on the iPhone App Store? Yeah, it's like also it's one of
the games that's always available, like on a flight.
There was one time this was likewhen I was going on my study
abroad last summer where I played for so long, 'cause like
I got, I got so close to that 2048 tile and now everyone was
asleep around me and I was just like biting my nails, like

(30:39):
getting so nervous. And like, it's the type of game
I got. You was like looking into this.
Like normally you're always like, you're always just failing
at the game, but like, for some reason, like it doesn't feel
like you failed. It just feels like you just got
like that much closer and then you just keep going and keep
going. And I feel like that could apply
to like a lot of other things inyour life.

(31:01):
Do you gamble? No, you sound you sound like
one. It's just like, yeah, just seems
so like stimulating, right? It just feels like I'm gonna
everything's novel. I'm like, wait, that's exactly.
I just watched like a gambling documentary and that's exactly
how they. It's.
Funny it's just 2048 though. Up until it's actually.

(31:23):
I'm spending money on it. OK, OK.
You. Guys should stay away from a
casino. Maybe if I do play casino games
that I get a little too hot. Have you?
Have you? I know I've never been in a
casino before. Wow.
OK, maybe we we try to avoid that.
OK. Maybe.
What personal habits or anchors help you stay grounded and

(31:45):
connected to your purpose when the work gets overwhelming?
Were emotionally heavy. Yeah, I like keeping like a good
group around me, especially like, I don't know, like all my
university friends, especially like in political science, we're
going through very similar things.
And instead of just like phrasing or like forming a

(32:05):
conversation around like how miserable we're feeling in final
season, like it's more so like, oh, how are you getting through
like this assignment, like, or like, what are, I don't know,
some positive things that you'redoing in your life right now to
like, get yourself through it. Obviously sometimes it is like
the, oh, I this sucks right now.But like, it's just like, yeah,

(32:26):
keeping that good group around you to like, motivate yourself
and then also be like that, likepositive light in their lives
when they need it most. And then like, yeah.
OK, so I'm, I'm a part of your friend group.
You guys are, are you guys clicky like you welcome me.
I would say I always say this myfriend.
Yes, of course. I think we have like a friend

(32:47):
network. It's really funny.
Like everyone knows each other. And like, let's say like I have
a few friends that like from high school that also work at
Joey and like, Oh yeah, I work at Joey restaurants.
I guess that's like something that we both know, but like
anyone who's watching would not know.
Interconnected. We're just all interconnected.
Exactly. I go into your like say it's

(33:07):
like a hangout, maybe a study sesh.
We're just, it's like 1:00 PM. We all just finished our morning
classes and like Samara, you know, it's really getting to me.
You know, there's these finals, you know what's what's.
How do you go about about that conversation?
Yeah, OK. I've been like, what are you
like? Are you like there with high
energy? I think.

(33:29):
The first questions I would ask is like, oh, how long have you
been working on this? Like certain assignment if you
say. Like I haven't started.
Oh, you haven't started? OK, like I'm just playing 2048.
Yeah. I think I'd ask, like, yeah,
like, what has been like that mental block for you to start
the assignment? There's some childhood trauma.
OK, OK. And then I guess like in this

(33:53):
scenario, I'd ask if you wanted to like, say what emotions like
are coming up I'm. Kind of like excited mixed with
anger, mixed with sadness a little bit, you know, mixed with
disgust. OK, which I want to know.
To be honest, I'd be like. Maybe you should get some help.

(34:14):
Maybe you should just get a sweet treat or something and
then let's get back into it. But yeah, OK, good.
But yeah, no, it's just a network is so, so important.
It's so important. Because like you have a person
that walks in and if they, you can just, it's palpable.

(34:34):
Hey, yeah. Like when somebody walks in with
like just a shitty attitude and they're like, it just brings
everyone down. Exactly.
Like I have this one friend thatjust like sees everything cup
half empty. And I love the guy, but it's
just like he like we'll have thesame interaction or this, we'll

(34:56):
be in the same vicinity. Yeah, but he would perceive it
as, like, awkward and weird and like, uncomfortable.
Yeah, but. I've been in situations like
that for sure. But it's fine.
Like, yeah, you know, it's just everything's fine.
Yeah. And like, he seemed like he was
having fun. But like from his perception,
you know, after we had gone intoour own way paths and, you know,
talked about it one-on-one, he'slike, yeah, this is awkward.

(35:18):
Yeah. This is like, it's all about
reframing that, right. And.
Exactly. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, in
those situations, I think I'd always just like ask the why,
like why, like why are you feeling awkward right now?
And then like, maybe, yeah, maybe like the room is like
maybe really busy and then they just need like some time like
outside and then go back in and then they feel fine.

(35:41):
But yeah, like everyone, yeah. Like, everyone definitely has
their reason for like, feeling certain ways in different rooms
or like, let's say, I don't know, this could be a random
like scenario, but let's say like we're in a room and then
they see someone that they neverwanted to see again.
Yeah. And then like, just.
But they haven't told me the lore yet.
John is here. Yeah.
And then I'd be like, who's John?

(36:02):
John used to bully the shit out of me in grade one, yeah, but
he's been in Grade 1. But like, if that still effects
them, then like I would want to give like space for that and
like see what like the best thing could be.
Like, let's say if we're in a situation like where we have to
stay in the room, then like I'd just say like, like what was
like knowing that we have to stay here?

(36:23):
Like what's the best thing that like I can help you with right
now? And if it's just like, I don't
know, simply just like staying by their side the entire time or
something like that, then yeah, something I would do.
Yeah, as long as that person isn't going to like, harm them,
yeah, you know, they're isn't going to go over their
boundaries, then it's it's OK and.
It's OK, exactly. And it's just, yeah, actually me

(36:44):
saying that I actually still hold some like things people say
to me in elementary, you know, something about.
Them. To the.
Stage No. I have a few things.
Too like this OK I was in grade 7 and these actually I'm friends
with them now we just weren't close with them.
I like had I had a growth spurt,so like all my shirts were like
a bit too small and I was just waiting for my mom to take me to

(37:07):
like H&M or like value village, you know, so like these, they,
my friends, guess we weren't that close back then, but
they're like, I shop at baby R Us and that's what they were
saying. And I'm like, that's got to
that's so weird. And then and then they're
called, there's this chick in grade 6 that like, like, can you

(37:28):
enunciate your words properly? Because I had just moved from
the Philippines to Canada and I stuck with me, you know, and I'm
like, if somebody said that to me today, I'd be like, cough,
you know, But like, since it happened then like when you're a
kid, when you're just like growing up, right?
It's like these hit right? They they like.
No, they definitely would. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(37:49):
Like, I mean, I mean, there's nolike, like secret that I'm
short, but like that was one thing that like, yeah, I'm
short. I don't sound like pick me right
now, but like, that was something that, like, was always
like, brought up. Oh, really?
Yeah. Like when I was like in
elementary school. Gosh man, you're so short.

(38:10):
Or like they would make like a little like slide joke and then
like that like stung like it, itstuck with me for a bit.
But now it's something that like, yeah, it like sits in the
back of mine. Like it's still something that
like I think about like let's say if like a random, I don't
know, like a guest that I'm serving like makes a like
comment about my height, then I'm always just like ha ha, OK,

(38:31):
like now like I'm like it doesn't hit me the same way like
grade 6th mirror like was in herfight, but.
It's, it's crazy, though. I've there's this woman at my
work. She's like, she's like on the
board part of like the one of the executives.
I don't know what her actual position is, but every time she

(38:51):
walks into her room, she's like,she's shorter than you.
And I think she's, she's just, she's got this like boy cut
hair, but she's just like her frames, like very slim.
But she's, she's not intimidating.
But when you talk to her like every single word that comes out
of her mouth, it's like she's she means it and she knows what

(39:15):
she's doing every single step she does.
And anytime anybody is in the room with her, they'd like all
attention's on her. And she's just, she has a lot of
respect. And I've also met people that
are like 6-5, like 250 lbs. I can't hold space like that.
Yeah, like I'd be at the gym andlike, I I approached like, hey,

(39:37):
man, you know what's up? Can I use that?
Can I use the set like that? How many sets you got?
Yeah, like, they're the fucking throwing it like an anxiety
attack. Yeah.
Oh, chill, man. I'm just trying to, I'm just
asking you a question. Yeah.
And it's it's crazy. Just like our postures and the
way we conduct ourselves as so and the way we frame things.

(39:57):
Yeah. Like if you had to let those,
the short jokes affect you. And if you just head in your
shell and you're like, I don't want to be in a leadership
position anymore. They're making fun of me.
Fun. Of me in a lot of different
ways. But you didn't.
Yeah. You know why you'd laugh about
it. Now you have some people you
could get angry about it too. And then, yeah, you could get,
you know, you could start havingfights with people as you're

(40:19):
waitressing, you know, there. Was I made me think there was
one person who was like, are youa Midget?
I was like, what? Yeah.
And then I was just like, no. And then he like, was like,
really? I was like, yeah.
And he's like, really? Yeah.
And this kid was right beside him too.
I was just like, what are he teaching this girl?
What? That's so bad.

(40:39):
Right. And I mean, then that's when I
learned that like, I think 410 or something is like considered
like actually, wait, is he calling someone a Midget bad?
Yes, it's a slur. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry, don't. Cancel me.
That person called you a Midget.Though they did call me a
Midget, yes. And like I think now if, if it

(41:03):
happened to me now, like I wouldhave like I think I would have
been a bit more certain about itto be honest.
Like I kind of was like, oh, I don't want to affect my like
Tiff average right now. I'm just going to laugh it off,
even though like this guy has already said like a few other
things that were like even like honestly, like microaggressions
and all that. Like I felt just like constantly
like degraded by this guy this entire time.

(41:24):
And then that like that comment about like my height, like
really got to me. But yeah, now it's like
something that I look back at and be like, OK, now like that
happens to me. I maybe laughed at it a little
too much in the moment. I wouldn't laugh at it the same
way if like it happened to me again with a guess so.
Yeah, we'll learn from it, RightYou go next time.

(41:46):
Not gonna let this happen. Yeah, but still, it happened,
right? And you can reframe frame it in
your head as a lesson. Yeah, exactly.
Rather than something that's gonna now like, shy me away from
like a. Situation like that job, I'm
never gonna do anything and that's.
Like I wouldn't let that. Actually I was going for I
usually around shirt park. Yeah.
There's people that are that yell mean stuff out their car.

(42:10):
Oh yeah, yeah. Like 2 guys have given me the
finger. Yeah.
I I don't know why. I don't know what I did.
I just was just going for a run.I don't know.
What, They're just like and you did nothing and then.
There'd be like, there's kids inthe back, you know, it'd be like
dads and moms. And then I'd be I'd be scrolling
through my Facebook, you know, after a long day of working and
podcasting, being productive, I'd see like a like a celebrity

(42:36):
post just pop up in my feed and like, oh, cool, you know,
there's a who's that woman that that sang in the arms of the
Angel? I don't.
Know her name, you know. That.
Song. I do know that song though.
Her, that artist, there's a photo of her and it was like a
before and after. And she had the after pic like

(42:58):
she'd aged. And I looked at the comments,
but I always look at the comments like how do people have
to say, yeah, people are so mean?
Yeah, people like, and they're like, oh, what happened to you?
You know, you're supposed to be young and healthy.
What do you you're so unhealthy.You're so ugly.
And then I click on a profile like, oh, it's got to be like
some private, like, troll, like nobody, like, just like TikTok

(43:22):
comments. I see.
It's like a mother of five. Yeah, they're in there like
Christmas jumpsuit. It makes you.
Feel like what are they teachingtheir?
Yeah. And then I'm I'm tapping on the
next one. Hey, next.
Hey, comment. It's like, oh, it's like dad of
two. Yeah.
And I'm like, Oh my, what is? And that's.
Why are they spending their timeon?
That too. That's when I realized I was
here. I was being young in in

(43:44):
elementary going, yeah, when I like this mean stuff like this
immature stuff, it's all going to go away once we're past 18.
Yeah. But then now, you know, almost
being in the mid 20s, it's it's everywhere.
Yeah. Maturity doesn't doesn't

(44:04):
correspond to age. Yeah, that is, that is very,
very true. I.
Met some 13 year olds that can hold their ground on to like
mature conversations that are respectful.
Have also met 50 year olds that never left high school.
Yeah. That's so true.
Yeah, yeah, no, it's, yeah. I, I would say like personally

(44:26):
speaking that I don't know, likeI've had like a lot of
experiences that have like definitely matured me.
And I never like, I mean, like I, I did, but then I didn't like
let myself think, OK, like when I was in high school, like, Oh
yeah, I'm like, I'm 16. Like no, I can't like I, I can't
do any advocacy work. I'm like, no one's going to

(44:47):
listen to a 16 year old. Like, no, like obviously if like
I have felt like I can have likethe confidence to like do
something, then that will like people will see that and then
they will be like, oh, you're 16.
What? Like now I get it.
Like now I'm 19. And then when like I am like in
AI don't know, I'm at like a networking event and I do tell

(45:07):
people my age they're like, no way.
Like what? Like I thought you were like, at
least like, I don't know, mid 20s or something like that.
And I'd be like, Oh, no, yeah. Well like you can have 13 year
old spend 8 hours per day editing like just on scratch and

(45:34):
they've had experience since they were five just doing it for
fun. And don't say 13, they probably
just are better than 99% of people in this.
My 1 friend, he, there's this one piece in his computer that
he could not figure out. Like there's just, he was just
go, I forget which piece it was something in the hardware like

(45:55):
he was building his PC and he was trying for hours, got really
frustrated. He was on Google, he's on
Reddit, he's on ChatGPT. Nothing was working.
I went to the hardware store getting all these parts.
Something was working. Found this guy on the Facebook
marketplace. There's a service and it was
this like, I don't know how he found it, but eventually, yeah,

(46:18):
they they drove to this place. Mom or older woman opens the
door and they're like, hey, what's up?
And they're led to this basementand pops up this like 12 year
old kid and he gets a screwdriver 'cause they did
brought on the PC, does it in 10seconds and.
Then it goes the whole thing. Wow, boom, 50 bucks.

(46:40):
There you go. Yeah, yeah.
It's just like stories like that.
Where are you? You hear about like prodigies
about like in mathematics, in science, and you go, you can't
really underestimate like young people because they've like a
lot of we all get 24 hours within the day.
And a lot of people just do it so efficiently in their passion

(47:07):
that they can just sharpen that sword so sharp it just slices
the dragon right cleanly off itshead.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Like, that's why it's like it's good to have your things that
you want to like, get, like goodat and then be that expert.
And like, I feel that that comeswith like, yeah, like

(47:29):
understanding that like humans have limits and that they can't.
They can't be like a know it allof everything.
So then I feel like when you seelike those prodigies, you see
that they are like they they have got something down so well
in a very specific thing, but people still see it as very,
very impressive. So yeah, that's something that

(47:50):
like I've had to think about as like opportunities have arised
that there has there. There needs to be a time where I
do say no to something if it feels out of the scope of like
what I desire to be good at. Yeah, 'cause you're just going
to be stretched out and then Oliver, the Oliver Berkman has
this code of decide in advance what you're going to suck at
like. Sports.

(48:11):
Yeah, swimming for me No, I really I want to be a good
swimmer, you know like but that am I willing to put in the hours
every day? No am I willing to just I can
get really good at Call of Duty zombies, but is that really a
good use of my time? And this brings the thought of
like, I heard this from not Naval Revicant.

(48:33):
And he says that there's people are not lazy.
Most majority of people are not lazy because everybody's always
doing something, right? It's more that time allocation.
The reason that society views certain people lazy is because,
oh, they just sit there and theyjust watch TV or they just eat
all day or they just lounge around, but they're they're
doing something within that time, right?

(48:54):
If you if you take the same person who's spending 12 hours
every day on video games, you take that same person, you make
them read law and you make them watch the news and get really
good at, you know, editing certain things to put them
together into this lawyer editing piece.
They would be so good at it. But it's just there's a lot of

(49:16):
friction in there, you know whatI mean?
Yeah, I know what you mean. And I now I'm even thinking like
the other way around. If you put someone in like a
room playing that game with someone that has like, played it
for how many hours, like they'renot, they're not going to be
good at it exactly because they just haven't spent the time on
it. So yeah, that's true.
Society definitely, like shapes that.
Yeah, I was thinking, yeah. Yeah, well, as someone involved

(49:40):
in both academia and community spaces, how do you translate
political or philosophical concepts into conversations that
feel approachable and relevant to everyday life?
Yeah, I guess the approach, the approach is like different
depending on like the magnitude of the topic, like, but it's

(50:00):
yeah, it's really just like meeting people like where
they're at and not like, I don'tknow if it was like a topic that
I want that like kind of in conversation.
I knew that I had like a lot of like understanding of it.
I'm not going to like then rightaway.
Now start talking at like that level.
True, but there's some people that do that though.
Yeah, exactly. And then it just, what does it
do? It just like makes the other

(50:21):
people not want to listen. Yeah, it's like, you clearly
don't know what you're saying, but you're just saying that to
impress me. I'm not impressed because yeah,
I do. My you're researching this.
I know what I'm talking about. You don't, you know, you just
want to talk. To talk.
Yeah, exactly. And then just sounds like what
is it called? Verbal, Verbal vomit.
No. Is that Yeah, yeah.

(50:43):
Verbal vomit for me. It sounds insecure, like it just
sounds needy. You know, like, I know, like
people say that like, you know, that, you know, a topic, if you
can like change how you like talk about it to like different
like levels, like at at like a university level.
Or if like you're talking about the same thing with like, I
don't know, like a 5 year old exactly.

(51:04):
Like do what Chachi PT does. Like explain this.
Like I'm in great fun. It's like it's basically doing
that. But like, well, I mean, not to
that like that total extent, butlike, yeah, especially being
like sensitive to the topic to, I find that like with social

(51:24):
media, like I, I love that like people are like posting and like
sharing, like spreading awareness about very like
sensitive topics. But like if it's like in
between, like I don't know if it's like on a story post.
And then like people are like flipping through and then they
see like, I don't know, someone like celebrating like something.
And then the next thing is like,like a nympho post on like a

(51:48):
very like sensitive topic, then people are going to have a
harder time like, like switchingtheir like brain to like that
like to be able to like consume that type of knowledge.
So yeah, it's like this goes back to what I was saying.
But everything needs to just be approached with like, grace and
just like, yeah, there needs to be like a foundation before you

(52:10):
can go into like these types of topics.
Like, why don't you care about this?
I'm posting about it all the time.
I'm talking about it all the time.
It's like, I'd go on Instagram just to look at my text stories
of birthdays, you know, people graduating.
And there's just this post that like gets my adrenaline going
and I'm like, do I really want that?

(52:30):
But it's like presenting it in away that's like palatable, but
not so serious that just like, cuz I don't, there's, there's a
bunch of research that shows that people that watch a lot of
news are unhappier. You know, you're, it's like, I
get it, Like my dad watches a lot in the news and he gets
stressed out sometimes. But you know, I, I, it happens

(52:52):
to me too. And that's why you got to
present it in a way that's like compassionate and actually
welcoming. You can't like target people or
just like say like, oh, what areyou doing with yourself?
Like if they didn't know about like, I don't know, like a very
important thing you. Know what strategies have worked
for you when engaging peers or even younger students in

(53:12):
political discussions without making it feel like a lecture or
debate. It's like one thing is like
making sure that I haven't been like talking for all too long
When I like whenever I get into the topic because like, I mean,
I know that my attention span has already gone short and
because of like Instagram Reels and stuff like that.
So it's like, yeah, like asking those right questions.

(53:34):
And then it goes back to what I was saying about like finding
out like where people are AT. And it's like, I can't know that
if I'm not like letting them saywhat, like how they are feeling.
And like, even if I don't know, there's like going to be a time
where someone goes like, yeah, like, yeah, that makes sense.
But like if they're using that tone, then like obviously then
there's something that they wantto say it, but then they aren't

(53:54):
saying it. So yeah, that I feel like that
answered only like a part of thequestion though.
Sorry that. Makes sense.
I mean the the tone of voice, like a lot of people will say
they get something but they don't actually get it.
Like when their eyes are squinting.
I know my one friend does it like he does this.
It's like so. Honest too.
At the start I thought he was like like mad at me or something

(54:15):
because he did this like. When he's just like, really?
Thinking though, just like really confused.
Like really like did I say something to offend them?
Like always just confused. Yeah.
And it's also like creating thatopen, like open that like what's
what I'm trying to say, like create an environment where open
conversation can happen and people don't need to be afraid

(54:37):
to like say that they don't know.
Judgement free. Judgement free zone.
There we go. That's exactly what I meant.
Sounds like yoga class like Oh yeah.
Exactly. But that's definitely an
important. Piece So I I think I already
asked you about this, but the camera shut off.

(54:58):
How do you encourage people to care about politics when they
feel disillusioned or think politics doesn't affect me?
Yeah, it's like what I was saying before, like people,
especially when it's like a, like it's a topic about
something like overseas, they'llbe like, oh, that's so far away

(55:20):
from me. Like why?
Like, why do I need to care about that when first like,
especially if it's like a humanitarian conflict, care
about the people that are like being affected and like being
killed like that. That I feel like should go
without saying, but also like ifpeople like for like other like
other like topics, like if they don't fully understand like the

(55:43):
implications of like a certain thing that's going on overseas
and how like interconnected likemaybe our country is with them.
Like they're not going to be like they're not going to care.
But even like now talking about more local stuff, it's it's
local. It's going to affect you in some
way, like in the smallest way too.
Could be even like now the priceof your coffee like that makes

(56:05):
sense. Yeah.
And I think too, if it doesn't affect like a that like that
person's demographic, then they they shy away from it or they
think like, OK, well, I haven't had to deal with that adversity.
So I can't put myself in that person's shoes.
So I'm going to avoid it. And I'm just going to like stay

(56:27):
away because like, I'm never going to fully understand it.
So why would I like, put myself in that?
That makes sense. Yeah.
No, no, it does make sense. This, this thought actually just
came to me about like, I'm not really into politics.
Like I've talked to a lot of people about like certain wars
and how we can be better as a nation and how we can help.
But this thought just came up tome when describing it to people

(56:49):
that's not into politics is whenyou punch some stranger, that
stranger is someone's brother, son, maybe dad.
They're going to be hurt and depending on the severity of it,
they're going to go back and maybe that stranger is hurt and

(57:11):
they can't do their job properly.
Big bruise and maybe they're bones broken.
That's going to affect the family that that person has.
They're going to maybe that person has anger issues and they
they shit out on their kids forever for whatever reason or,
and then next thing you know, they get fired from work and
then all this and it's like a butterfly effect.

(57:32):
Right. So like within politics, within
like the world, one nation couldbe struggling and what would
that the people do within that nation?
They'd want to, you know, flood to the other countries carrying
all that trauma, all that, all the things that they've seen and

(57:54):
they could possibly, you know, dish that on to other people or
that maybe they just need help and all these things.
Eventually it'll just be right in your front door.
Now, do you want that? And you see this with prices and
all this stuff like this, is that, is that coherent?
Is that like a? That makes sense?
Original. Thought I had like a lot of

(58:14):
things going through my mind when you were saying that, like
thinking about like many things,especially like I was thinking
about my mom too because like she's like someone that like in
when she was like 16, had to like lease Malia and then like
come here and then was like leftalone to now learn about like, I
don't know how to live in Canadaand all and like not have like

(58:38):
it's the most like this traditional upbringing.
Obviously this. Is the product.
Yeah. That's so wow, good, good for
your mom. And then that's she.
She, she would be very proud. I hope so, yeah.
I really. Hope so.
Yeah, 16. Yeah, it was.
Well, 16 was like the start and then like it was finally when
she was my age, when she was like now moving like to Canada

(59:02):
and then also like finding a joband then like slowly like
beginning the like citizenship process and all that.
So but like she she was here nowlike learning, but then also
like she obviously has like on like a weight on her shoulders
of everything that she had in Somalia and then also everything

(59:25):
that happened in Somalia. So, and then when I was thinking
about that, another thing I was thinking of is like that would
honestly, that would make it really tough for someone to like
have their like have the headspace to like really care
about the politics around them because they, they know,
especially with Somali, like there's not a lot of like media
coverage on what's going on there.

(59:46):
So I think that's definitely something that would go through
like, my mom's mind, like, oh, like, I know that this is like,
happening, but like, I really wish that the coverage that this
topic is getting would be the same as like, what what's
happening in Somalia, Yeah. Yeah, there's, there's so many
things going on in the world, right?

(01:00:06):
And people, it seems like peopledon't care as much because they,
they care more about celebrities, you know what I
mean? They care more.
About like pop culture, it's just easier topic.
Yeah, 'cause it's like it's feelgood kind of news and like it
doesn't really, you don't reallyhave to look at yourself in the
mirror and like question things about the world.
You kind of just go, yeah, I'm just cruising around doing my

(01:00:29):
9:00 to 5:00. I've got my family.
I got all this. But then on the other side of
the world, there's the wars and there's famine and there's all
these atrocities. We're privileged to just like be
able to just look at pop cultureif you wanted to and like not
think of anything else, which isit's really tough because I
think, I mean, at least I hope like a lot of people do

(01:00:50):
understand like the privilege they have being like in a first
world country and like being able to like live in a place
that has a great quality of living.
And then like they can actually just go about their lives not
understanding every single process that is happening around
them because it's well established and they can thrive.

(01:01:11):
Whereas if like someone is in like AI don't know like a
country with like poor governance, I feel like then the
burden and like all the troublesthat are happening around them,
like would it would force them to try to find a greater
understanding of what is happening, Yeah.
Yeah, we're all interconnected, Tay.

(01:01:33):
Yeah, we're all. If I flip someone off in
traffic, they're probably gonna want to flip someone off, you
know, or like depending what kind of person they are and they
just take that, maybe just absorb it.
Or if I'm nice to someone, they're probably just going to
be nicer to someone. It's like you'd pay it forward,
right? And it's just, there's like, and

(01:01:55):
there's a movie about it, Everything Everywhere, all
happening all at once like that.But it's just, yeah, right now
there's so many interactions, right?
There's so many good things and bad things.
And like, we really have to think about how our actions
affect other people and what we can do to help.

(01:02:16):
And like, it's, it's tough though, because I like for me,
I'm already sometimes strugglingwith my mental health, you know
what I mean? Like, it's just tough these days
with trying to, you know, make make a name for myself and
trying to go to school and trying to balance time with
exercise, with eating healthy, with socializing, family time.

(01:02:36):
How would you go? Like how would you advise
someone who feels like they don't have time to be able to
give towards caring about other people when they you know they
have so much going on? Yeah.
Oh, it's hard for me to have an answer because I feel like
that's something that I still struggle with.

(01:02:58):
Well, in my like really busy like times in my life, I think I
do try my best to at least do like a check in with like the
people that I care about and like in those check INS, like
when I'm saying like, Hey, how are you doing?
I also like I'm I am honest withlike where I'm at myself.

(01:03:19):
So like if I say like I like honestly, like this is a really
busy time for me. So if I do seem distant, it's
not because I want to be, it's just because I have a lot on my
plate. Just want to give you clarity on
that. Then like that person's going to
like first hopefully value like that I've said that to them.
And then also have like now a good understanding of like why

(01:03:40):
it would be distant. Then also I would want, I
wouldn't want them to just be like, OK, yeah, now smear's
busy, OK. Like now I'm just not going to
like I, I know how this is goingto be.
So I like there needs to be a balance.
Like at times where like I like I can like I would want to have

(01:04:01):
those like open conversations and like really know if like I
am being like a good friend. So that makes sense.
Yeah, you want to be able to be a good friend 1st, and then you
can allocate your time onto other stuff, right?
You want to make sure your relationships are good and sound
and healthy. Then you can move forward.

(01:04:21):
Did I? Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah. I don't know why I said that
makes sense Like that. That's exactly what I was
thinking. Because like at the end of the
day, like all like all the work that like I'm doing or like a
career, like it's amazing. But if I don't have like friends
around me, like a strong, like strong family around me, then it

(01:04:42):
will end up just being like fleeting, just something that
will just completely consume me.And then I really lose out on
like the really important thingsin my life like, and that is
connection with. You're on top of the mountain
and you're looking around. There's no one around you.
Yeah, there's no one there. That's that's a reality for many
people. Hey, yeah, that sucks.

(01:05:03):
Yeah, I'm, I'm trying to trying to keep it long term here.
Exactly, you know. Think about it's not just.
About the money, yeah, I see what you did there.
That's, that's, that's a pod, you know, that's what we're all
about. We're trying to keep everything
balanced and everything like living a fulfilling life.
I think this podcast is designedto find meaning, you know,

(01:05:24):
eating in all things, even washing the dishes.
And I feel like that's there's meaning to that.
You're doing it for your family.For cleanliness, order.
Yeah. And you see, like every guest
that's like gone on has had liketheir topic that they feel very
like passionate about. And it just shows that like,
yeah, that person has found whatthey I was about to stay

(01:05:47):
passionate. Again, that's not what I meant
to do though. Like just like find the thing
that they want to like dedicate a lot of time to and then now
like can share that with others.Awesome.
Many organizations talk about inclusion, but if you practice
it meaningfully, what are the key differences between our The
key differences you notice between performative inclusion

(01:06:11):
and genuine inclusion? Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts
on this, especially like what wewere just saying, like there's
there's so much going on. There's so many things that like
deserve to have like light. And I think that's been the
reason why a lot of, like organizations have now tried to
find like little shortcuts just like to hit like, yeah, yeah, we

(01:06:32):
have like cared about this and we can show this, like, small
poster. Well, like, boom, there it is.
And that's very performative. Like it's like what what deeper
action was like taken there because I just look at a poster
and like know now that like, I don't know, it's like something,
something day, like, Oh, cool. But like then I can either I can

(01:06:52):
take the action to now look intoit myself, But I think more like
genuine inclusion and genuine action is like being the like
lead of like sharing resources and showing and like pointing
people into the right direction.Not necessarily like having to
have like the longest like info post on something, but just like
more than just something that seems easy just making a Canva

(01:07:16):
post or something like that. Touch people's hearts, you know,
to actually mean it. You know, it's hard to, to
actually decipher that though. And like, you just see a post
and you, you go, oh, what is this person actually?
Is this person actually want to help the cause or just profit to

(01:07:36):
make their company look good, you know, to make their
themselves look good. And then you can really decipher
it though by just by talking to that person.
You know, you can see it with the eyes.
I mean, I, I think we're just really good at reading people,
you know, people would have goodintentions.
Yeah, exactly. And like, if it's just a poster
then and like you don't really see like a face behind it, then

(01:07:57):
it's not you're not going to well when you they would be hard
to see the intention. But also like it's also clear at
the same time, because if there's not a lot of work put
into it there you have it. And like not to say that like my
school was like this, like no shades of that facie.
They are awesome. That school is awesome.
But like with Black History Month, it was like from what I
saw when I was there, it was just like a poster put up or

(01:08:21):
like it's Black History Month. And as like, like me in grade
12, like I, I was like, this does not sit right with me.
And I can either just like sit here, do nothing about it or do
something about it that now I feel like Black History Month is
getting genuine awareness and genuine inclusion in like, I
don't know the knowledge that's being shared at this school.

(01:08:43):
So then now like yearly I help with like a Black History Month
event at my like old high school.
And now it's like being like like it's an assembly that's
held at like Sal and Befacie andthen Max.
I hate that. And then hopefully more like
more schools as well. And then now like it's an
assembly where black contributors are coming to the

(01:09:05):
school and like students get to hear from their personal
experience. And then also like I love having
like a music aspect to it. And then that also brings like a
lot of like black culture into the events.
And then I mean, in my eyes I feel like that's a lot more
genuine than a poster 'cause people get like a real life,
like, I don't know, more like action filled like knowledge

(01:09:29):
building, so. Yeah, I like that.
I mean, you went to Beth Facie and you, you seen that in their
Black History Month didn't have the best kind of program, the
best system. And so you thought to yourself,
yeah, well, you weren't, you weren't content with what they

(01:09:51):
were producing. And so you stepped in there and
you wanted change. And I feel like there's too many
people complaining these days, and not a lot of things get done
because, yeah, you can complain,but actually do something about
it. You know, Like, if you're going
to complain about your life being terrible, what are you
doing? You know, are you out there

(01:10:12):
putting in the work for exercise?
Are you working? Are you studying?
Are you reading books about it? Yeah.
If the answer is no, then maybe you shouldn't be complaining
because this is exactly the lifethat you deserve, because that's
what you're putting out. And that goes the same for like,
politics, for change that you want to see.

(01:10:33):
Like you complain that everybody's mean to you.
Are you nice to everyone? If the answer is no, you know
like maybe you are part of the problem.
Exactly. It's that's why I loved like
when like I was in like leadership class in high school
and like, there would be times where we'd put on an event and
then a student would come to us and be like, that sucks.

(01:10:53):
And then we would like say that to our leadership teacher and
he'd be like, are they in the room right now?
No. Exactly.
They're just. You're to complain.
It's like those trolls online, right?
And it's like the people that hate just don't have anything
better to do. Exactly.
It's like that's why I have a war against people who are
cynics like in nihilism and all that.

(01:11:15):
I hate that. Like what is this doing for
society, for humanity? No, it's just making people
negative and just spreading hateand taking meaning out of
everything. Like, no, everything has
meaning. And let's say at the end of the
day, we all just get, you know, warped into a black hole and
Earth disappears. But it's still people are happy,

(01:11:37):
and that's what matters, you know?
Yeah. Exactly.
Can you share a time when you oryour team had to adapt to our
project or event based on feedback from the community?
What did that teach you about listening and evolving?
Yeah, what's like me to student groups, we have annual events
that like they're constantly evolving.

(01:12:00):
Yeah, because of like the feedback.
So we love like putting out polls and then also just like
bite your like people will come up to us and say like, oh, I
love this event for like this reason.
And then like if we hear a lot of it, like a lot of like a
certain aspect being loved and we keep it.
But then also like if there's something that people that
didn't work, then we take it out.
This is a really funny one and it it was just so funny.

(01:12:24):
So the Black Students Association used to do Family
Feud and then the last year thatwe did it, I dressed up as Steve
Harvey and and it just like it got rowdy.
It got really rowdy because people are like having fun.
But then it also just like crowdcontrol just got tough.
And then we realized that this event.
You got the ball. I had the ball cap on.

(01:12:46):
Are you trying to imagine me like just the Steve Harvey right
now? The mustache?
I had the mustache and. The suit, the suit, everything
went all out. I went all out and then imagine.
Working the voice. Oh no I couldn't do that but
might be walking through cab wearing that.
See actually I walked from my friends apartment.
She lives like, oh wait, actually I'm not saying a name.

(01:13:06):
It doesn't matter. Like she lives like near like
that Circle K gas station. Sure.
Yeah, Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
Yeah. So I had to walk from there all
the way to, like, out of reaction cab.
Yeah, there's a lot of laughter.Like, it was really.
It was really funny. But what was so funny is that I
ended up, like in tears after that event because it just got
so like, rowdy and like, nothing, nothing bad happened.

(01:13:29):
That was just like a great example of like, overwhelming.
Yeah. Like in that moment we were
like, OK, this is not like this is not really being received the
way that we would want it to be.So we're just going to adapt it
and then like change it up. So now it's like more or less
like a like chiller, like games night or something like that.
Or like, yeah, no more Family Feud, no more me dressing up as

(01:13:52):
Steve Harvey. So yeah.
And then like we do like mix andmingle every year.
So that that one I would say hasadapted quite a bit and we love
just like now incorporating games that we see like online,
like you know, like pop the balloon, stuff like that.
No, I don't know what it's been.No, no, no.
OK, so like it would be like 11 like person like comes in and

(01:14:17):
then there's going to be like, Idon't know, like quite a few
people that she can like she or anyone I meant to like be with
like for a date or something like that.
And then like the host asks thatlike one person questions.
And then if a person doesn't like the other person or other,
I don't know in that group didn't like what like they said,

(01:14:37):
then they just like pop the balloon and that just shows like
that they're not interested likeit's.
Oh wow, that's that's that's hardcore.
It is a bit hardcore but then itends up like if you keep it
light it ends up just being funny or like or just having no
just like 1 contestant and then having like 3 people face away
from them and then ask questionslike we just do stuff like that
if that makes sense. So like the these iterations,

(01:14:59):
you just see what works, so it doesn't.
And then it's. Overwhelming 'cause like I feel
like that Steve Harvey bit and the family feud was like a lot
of effort and it got became too rowdy and feel like you need to
like a lot more staff. You know, a lot more crowd
control and like, obviously we took into account how I ended.
Up just yelling a bunch of stuffat.
You It was like a little bit of trash talk.

(01:15:21):
They were just like, and then atthe end, like the, the group
that was doing it the most was just like, I thought this is how
Family Feud was. And I was like, have you watched
the show? Like, no, like that is not how
it is. So we're like, yeah, no, we're
not going to do that anymore. Yeah.
So there's that. And then like now I'm thinking

(01:15:41):
like from My Portfolio, there's like one event called Curls on
Campus. And we've done that now like 2
years in a row and it's like, it's kept like a pretty decent
blueprint. However, I know what I want to
change to keep it like first of all, like within the time frame
that I thought I was going to bein, like, like keep it on

(01:16:02):
schedule. Know like how we keep things
like clean because we're rentingout of space and then we're
cutting hair a lot of hair is going to go everywhere and like
this year, like there was a lot of cleaning to do at the end.
So like I'm adapting. And then also, I hear people
like what they're saying afterwards, what they liked
about the the gifts or not the gifts, sorry, the prizes and

(01:16:22):
like what they didn't like. And yeah.
Is this like on a forum? Yeah, forum and then also just
like. People can get really honest on
forums and especially. Because it's anonymous.
Yeah, Anonymous just makes people kind of saying
unnecessary things too. Yeah, but like, I'm not afraid
to even like, just like ask people like on the street.
Let's say like I run into like ageneral member and now we're

(01:16:45):
talking like I say, like what? How did you feel about the
event? Like you didn't like when I was
voting, like I put in my ballot and then the girl that was like
doing it with me, she goes, wait, are you part of the Box
Students Association? I was like, yeah, I am.
And then she's like, yeah, it's just that curls on campus.
So then even though I was just finished voting for like our, I
don't know, candidate, I took itas a moment to like, get

(01:17:08):
feedback from someone. So.
Yeah, it's I put AI joined a subreddit for it's called new
tubers and small Youtubers and then podcasting.
So like 3-3 subreddits kind of focused on the podcast and how
to improve. I made a post on how I can
improve and telling them oh I'm in this X like at the time this

(01:17:33):
is like a week ago like 270 Subs, like 157 listeners and
this and I told them like my little brother was on scratch
posted this video and it it. Blows up.
I saw your Snapchat, sorry aboutthat.
So I, I put that same thing on Reddit and like it blew up like
it had like 100,000 views, like 100 comments and like people

(01:17:57):
were saying, yeah, this, this part sucks.
Like the font, it's too red. And also this, I took all that
into account and of course therewere like some haters in there
too and didn't really apply it applied to that.
But feedback is so. So crucial.
Like I now I've changed kind of,I added back the intro, I added
kind of clips throughout the podcast to make it more engaging

(01:18:18):
so people know what to expect. Like I don't expect people to
listen to the whole thing. I just, I want to give them the
bits to kind of to kind of give them like excitement.
And I added back the intro and Ichanged up the thumbnail, the
cover. I changed up.
I took into account a lot of what they said.
And I'm going to keep asking people, oh, do you actually like

(01:18:39):
this? Do you like this?
And it's so important. Yeah, that's just how we
improve. Exactly.
Because if you just go based on what you think is good, that's
not it's not gonna. Be blind.
Leading blind. You need to lean on the people
around you. Yeah, their feedback is why
you're the leader. Yeah, exactly.
So how do you ensure that the people you're aiming to include

(01:19:03):
also have real power and agency within the spaces you're
building? Yeah.
I feel like since the groups that I'm a part of, like we're
all students, we need to remind ourselves that we are students
making things for students. And I think that like allows us
to stay like at the same level and then people feeling like

(01:19:24):
comfortable with like coming up to us or like, yeah, giving
people that agency to get involved and like also keep
people wanting to like be a partof the executive team yearly
when we do applications and likemaking it fair.
Like I would say that every year, like, I mean, now like
this, I'm going to my third yearwith the BSA.

(01:19:47):
But like there has been a lot oflike new people like coming
through like as a coordinator, like we have that, like there is
that opportunity there. And when people see that, then
they know that like. There's a chance it's not just
like all like Sneaky, like, oh, that person's friends with this
person and that's how they got onto the team.

(01:20:07):
Like it's never like that. Like we stay very honest and we
stay very like. Democratic.
Democratic. Exactly.
Yeah. But then electric.
Electric system. What do I say?
Election system. I'm going to.
Expose you. I'm going to get all the hidden
texts and DMS. Actually, Smear is going to stay
on the team, but she didn't actually voted in.

(01:20:30):
But yeah, no, it's like keeping,yeah, it's keeping those systems
like intact and then also alwayshaving transparency and like
what we're doing as a team. So it doesn't seem like all
corporate or anything like genuinely stay like grounded in
our values and then like let people in so.
Thank you so much for coming on the Long Term Podcast.

(01:20:52):
Yeah, thank you for having me. This has been really fun.
Yeah, yeah, you, you sound like a person that's taken some, some
path, the following the path of most resistance.
You know, you've you've let comments in the past and
hardship build you up instead oftearing you down.

(01:21:17):
I feel like you're a great leader.
And I feel like the the black, what's what's the name called?
The black. Student Association.
Black Student Association and what?
What's your position in there? I'm the VP of social impact.
Wow. And then?
It's like that takes a lot of work, hey?
Yeah, I mean, I love the work though.
Yeah, yeah. And then you're also working and

(01:21:40):
you're going to the gym. Wow, just trying to keep it up.
That's awesome. Yeah.
Yeah. Do you ever hit burnout?
Yeah, I've definitely had burnout.
That's just been how like. Yeah, like came back from it and
all and like also not like deny when I am and burn out, like
recognize it, recognize what I could do to like help myself.

(01:22:03):
Like if I find that like I'm feeling really tired because
I've let my like sleep schedule just like fall into pieces or
break into pieces, I meant to say, or I'm just like only
eating one burger from hub mall each day.
Like that's not that's not good.So, yeah, and then that's,
that's the only way that I can, like, allow myself to get back

(01:22:23):
up again because like, I need tounderstand that like, I'm human
and like, everyone needs to showhumility and the work they do.
That's awesome. Are you gonna gun for presidency
or? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wow, I think this this upcoming SEM.
This semester I'm like, I'm the VP social impact for the second
year and then yeah, but I won't be afraid to say that I will be

(01:22:46):
going for a presidency in my 4thyear, so.
I, you know, I won't be surprised if you get it.
Thank you. That's, that's awesome.
I you've done a lot of work and I can really tell you're
passionate about the things thatyou do and I can't wait to what
the future has to offer for you.I know it's a lot of amazing

(01:23:08):
things. Thank you.
I really appreciate that. Yeah.
Do you have any last words to the peoples I?
Don't know. Stay happy and healthy and yeah,
life's great. I don't know.
Awesome. Yeah, and as always, to everyone
listening and watching, there isa place for you in this chaotic

(01:23:29):
world. Never lose hope, strengthen your
faith and keep it long term. Semira Schultz, everyone.
And yeah, this quote I just readtoday really good.
I got to. I got to share with everyone
what is good Is it for someone to gain the world yet forfeit
their soul? Mark. 836 start, I'd share,

(01:23:51):
yeah. Awesome.
That is all these power, right? What's it for?
A few? Sacrifice the insides?
Exactly. Yeah.

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#142 - Samira Schultz - What It Takes to Create Genuinely Inclusive Spaces (Not Just Surface-Level Ones)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#142 - Samira Schultz - What It Takes to Create Genuinely Inclusive Spaces (Not Just Surface-Level Ones)