#143 - Tom Rhodes - How He Lost 60 Pounds Without Starving - Long Term Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
It is a hot take. I don't think I'd want to go to
heaven, you know, doing, doing hard stuff, right, that's
unpopular or difficult or whatever it is comes to shape
your values. But 60 lbs man, it's insane.
Gaining weight or losing weight are all.
Emotional problems? Yeah.
I think you got to delete DoorDash off your phone.
Put the fork down. And if they are judging you,

(00:22):
they're probably judging themselves.
More pursue more education, but it's like, why?
Why are you doing that? Like what's motivating that?
You get to see that every year more and more people become set
in their own habits. Yeah, yeah.
By learning music theory, you are able to, you know, just
articulate your thoughts better.I think the propaganda against

(00:45):
the only children is a government plot to make you have
more kids. I truly think that.
Really. I think so, yeah.
Hello You Beautiful people. Welcome back to the Long Term
Podcast. I'm your host, Advan Villa.
Today we have a person who was born in Texas and has called
Alberta since the age of four. Now entering his final year

(01:10):
studying Political Science at the University of Alberta, he's
on the path towards law school while also staying open to other
meaningful career directions beyond academics.
He has achieved a remarkable 60 LB weight loss, developed a deep
passion for fitness and long distance running, and finds

(01:34):
creative release through playingguitar at home.
With strong interests in politics, physical health and
music, he brings a thoughtful and well-rounded perspective to
everything. We will discuss physical fitness
in regards to weightlifting, running and transformation,

(01:54):
guitar and music and politics and career and ambitions.
He is a phenomenal person. We just had near the end we were
going to, we're done with the topics.
But I got really deep. And Tom's got a great head on

(02:14):
her shoulders. And I think he will go far in
life. And he's just very
introspective, very low neuroticism.
Yeah. I can't wait for everyone to
hear this episode. Everybody welcome, Tom Rhodes.
Welcome to the LONG Term Podcast.
Thanks for having me. Tom Rhodes, everyone.

(02:37):
Yeah, dude, how was the day? It was good.
Uneventful, you know it was, butgood, yeah, can't complain.
Are you working? I was, yeah.
I had a short shift this morning, but yeah, nothing
really too crazy happened. Got in, got out.
So that's good. What was the biggest mental or
emotional shift you had to make in order to lose 60 lbs and keep

(03:02):
progressing? I think the biggest thing that
you got to keep in mind, and it's not even just about like
weight loss or really anything that you want to change about
yourself or anything is aligningyour values with your actions.
So, you know, seeing yourself asa fit and healthy person rather
than somebody who's like a couchpotato, right?

(03:26):
So seeing yourself as somebody who can do those things, right?
And then, you know, putting the actions in to do that, right?
And then I think the maybe the next thing is, is doing it for
yourself, you know what I mean? So like not doing it for other
people. So like, you know, you break up
with your girlfriend, you're youdo it to like get back at her or

(03:49):
you do it for, you know, admiration from other people or
whatever reasons do it for yourself, right?
And that's kind of keeps you going, right?
You embody the identity instead of going, yeah, I'm going to
work out. Like, no, I'm the type of person
that works out. I'm the type of person that
shows up and hits the weights right.

(04:11):
And instead of doing it for validation, outsourcing yourself
worth, you go, how would this make me feel?
Right? How how can I optimize my
health? And I feel that a lot of people,
even I struggle with this myselfwhere I outsource myself worth
to other people like, oh, when Ilose X amount of weight, I'll

(04:34):
look like this and therefore I will be loved.
But then it's so so risky that way cuz like what if they still
don't like you then why? You know what I mean?
Yeah. But 60 lbs, man, it's insane.
I've I've never bet anyone that's lost that much weight.
Yeah. Yeah, it's, I don't know, it's
definitely a physical change. Was also a mental change, you

(04:57):
know, seeing yourself at that size.
Sometimes I still think that I'mlike 60 lbs heavier than I am,
and I have to remind myself I'm not, you know, But yeah, it's,
you know, it's a, it's a good accomplishment and it's a huge,
you know, confidence booster. Congratulations, man.
I'm happy for you. Thanks.
Do you ever wake up some days and, like, look in the mirror

(05:18):
and go whoa, whoa, like you, youforget, you know, that you, you
did lose 60 lbs and 'cause it's like, do you still remember how
you thought? Like what you're, what kind of
the mental framework was when you were that weight?
Yeah. I don't know, like, I think like
when I was heavier, like you know, it definitely, whether or

(05:43):
not you're conscious about it, it weighed on my self esteem,
right. And so like you were less
willing to like try things rightand put yourself out there and,
and be more assertive. And when you, when you lose
that, that weight, you, you, youhave like a body of results
that, you know, people can't really take away from you 'cause

(06:04):
it's you and you alone that really do it, right?
And so you get this huge kind ofconfidence boost.
And yeah, I don't know, I, I think, yeah, it's huge mental
boost, right? Yeah, I think when people say
looks don't matter, right? I, I disagree to an extent cause

(06:26):
of course it's gonna matter whenit comes to your confidence.
Like, because the way you go about acquiring a certain body
or acquiring a certain type of identity is through action.
Do you engage in weightlifting? Do you engage in heavy work
duties? Or do you just sit there, right.

(06:48):
And what do you, what do you feed your brain?
What do you feed your body? What actions do you take?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, what is it?
Yeah, through that, Like it's definitely it shapes your values
as well. Like just, you know, you become
more, more of a discipline person.
And I'm not trying to say that people that are heavier or not
in shape don't have discipline or anything like that.

(07:09):
But, you know, doing, doing hardstuff, right, that's unpopular
or difficult or whatever it is comes to shape your values,
right? And, and it, and it translates
into other aspects of your life,right?
And, and it, you know, it's, it's kind of like a chicken or
an egg thing. It's like, do, do the, you know,

(07:31):
talk about seeing yourself as a fit person or as like, you know,
somebody who's physically active, right?
You also start to kind of see yourself as somebody who's,
who's disciplined, right? And those kinds of things.
That's just what I do, right? It's who I am, right?
I hear this all the time, and I agree with this myself, where

(07:52):
exercise, yes, it's difficult, but what's even harder is the
diet. Yeah.
Now would would you say the same?
Absolutely, yeah, it is 'cause Ilike food, you know, the food's
awesome, you know, So like, I wouldn't, I don't have like a,

(08:13):
an eating disorder or anything like that.
But yeah, I, I enjoy eating. I enjoy cooking, you know, my
mom's a great cook and everything like that.
And, you know, having to, you know, say no and you know, it's,
it's, it's hard man, you know. Yeah, what was what would the
what did your diet consist of before before taking the journey

(08:38):
into a health oriented life? I didn't really know what
calories were prior. You know, I knew what they were,
but I didn't understand that like like they are important,
you know, they meant something. So it's like, you know, calories
are just a social construct and it's like not really like, you

(08:59):
know, we eat a family size bag of Doritos.
It's you know, there's reality is going to set in.
So and, you know, thinking abouthow much you move versus how
much you eat just didn't really occur to me.
And then I just kind of started reading about calories in,
calories out and, you know, eating the proper things and
then, you know, just kind of snowballs into something,

(09:20):
something better, right? So.
Yeah, what was so? What foods were you?
I mean, it wasn't like bad food,right?
If we want to use that, like I was eating, you know, like
quality food, like, you know, food that had a, you know, a mom

(09:41):
and a dad or that was grown in the ground.
But then I'd like snack a lot like, you know, like a lot of
chips or, you know, I'd just go get fast food and, you know, you
eat because you're bored, stuff like that.
So, you know, I don't know, I'llhave a good bag of Doritos, so.
Yeah, yeah, man, I used to. I think the way my fitness

(10:01):
journey started was I really wanted this girl to like me.
You know, your, your suggestion from from the first question was
I literally just followed the opposite where I, I outsourced
myself worth to other people andI my diet as well.

(10:23):
Like it was all really sporadic.Like there'd be points where I'd
I'd do, I'd eat this and I'd eatthat.
But what I've noticed is it's all very emotional, right?
Like if, if we were all rationalbeings, we would lose all the
weight and nobody would be fat. I find when I don't get enough

(10:44):
sleep, when I prioritize pleasure and I just feel
depleted too much video games don't do my due diligence.
Then I just stress eat. And I feel like a lot of the
problems that we have when it comes to gaining weight or
losing weight. Are all emotional problems.

(11:04):
Yeah, that was definitely something that and I don't think
you can totally like separate food from emotions, right?
It's pretty it's pretty hard to do like when you got things like
Christmas or whatever, right. But like I was definitely like a
big emotional eater like, you know, you did you did well on a
test. Let's go get a Blizzard.
Or you know, you had a bad day, you know, you know something

(11:29):
else, right? So and then you sort of think
like, well, this is, you know, emotional eating, right?
It's probably not the most rational thing to do.
I mean, it's not like the worst thing to do.
You know, it's every once in a while, it's fine to reward
yourself with something, but when you do it like
consistently, it's probably not a great idea.
At least it wasn't for me, right?
So. How did you go about not eating

(11:51):
the fast food or high sugary foods when I make prior to get
engaging in healthy activities? I feel like you exercised and
ate healthier after right? How did you have the control to
stop snacking? Well, I think it's you got to

(12:15):
delete tore dash off your phone.I just get rid of it.
Yeah, don't, I mean, just don't go the fast food places really
like it's pretty straightforwardand I don't know, just like
don't, don't buy it. Like I that's, that's what
worked for me. I it might not work for somebody

(12:36):
else, but that that's really it.Not a great answer, but just
don't. Man, out of sight, out of mind.
Yeah, I think you're not going to be tempted if it's not in
your vicinity. Yeah, right.
Like if it's not within reach. Yeah, like if you extend the
friction to which you're able toacquire a certain, you know,

(13:02):
certain food, then it's just gonna, why am I gonna spend one
hour, you know, driving all the way there, then back then
opening it. And it's like, you know, just
deleting DoorDash to get the dishes, Uber Eats, right, and
eliminating the temptations, right, 'cause I feel like
that's, that's always what leadsto weight gain.

(13:24):
And, you know, just the little things count as well, like
snacking. You said just eliminating that.
Pretty much I mean, one of the things that that helped me and
I, I one of the like, I want to stress like what works for me
might not work for somebody else, right?
Was understanding calories, right?

(13:46):
Like I said, like they, they exist, right?
They, they are something that you, you can't avoid.
And so I didn't understand like if you had like a, a resting
like a what's the, to sustain your body weight, a maintenance
level of calories? Yeah, yeah, I think what
maintenance level I have to wordto my my head.
And then a surplus and then a deficit.

(14:07):
What, what helps me is like, youknow, OK, you know, at my size,
I can eat like 2500 calories right now to like sustain
myself. That's just stay at the same
weight. And then you have to think
about, well, how do I get my protein in the carbs and the
fats and stuff like that. And then you, you look at like
McDonald's menu and you look at,you know, like a Big Mac,

(14:29):
whatever you get. And it's like 1000 calories and
it's just one meal. And it doesn't really satiate
you. And it just, it just does not
very rational, at least to me. It doesn't make sense.
Why would I do that? Why would I leave myself hungry
for the rest of the day? Kind of, you know what I mean?
Yeah, it's like then you're going to be if you engage in
that short term food, right, Yes, it's going to feel so, so

(14:52):
in good within that moment. But later on, Yeah, exactly.
It's just delayed gratification,right.
Yeah. It's a big thing that we've
we've talked about and yeah, I'dsay like and for some people.
They can't count calories like it, it messes with them or
whatever. And that's not for me to judge,
but for me I was, it was extremely helpful, right, to

(15:13):
understand like how much am I eating right?
And you know, stuff like that. So you have to find what works
for you. I mean, ultimately that's the
main like driver of, of weight gain or weight loss or whatever.
But you know, that's what workedfor me was measuring things.
You need to at least like a baselevel knowledge, right?
Yeah, like there's just not knowing anything where it's,

(15:35):
you're in the dark, you don't know what's what's going on.
And then there's tracking every single calorie, carb, protein,
fat, right. And that's a bit hardcore even
going as far as getting the micronutrients.
And it's like, that's maybe that's a bit excessive, but I
think most people can just benefit as to understanding kind
of the macro nutrients, micronutrients.

(15:55):
And eventually as you go about going more and more with
tracking the calories, you don'thave to do it for every single
meal, but you can gauge some things.
You get better at it that bananas, like 250 calories,
probably around 30 grams of carbs.
And then you can see you can compare it to other foods and
like, oh, I feel that way with abanana versus I feel that way

(16:17):
with an apple. Combine them together.
OK, maybe too many carbs in this, OK, too many calories.
Maybe I'll reduce that. And it's all these iterations,
right? And maybe you won't put it to
conscious thought, but you just have some.
Framework yeah, yeah, exactly like and and you get better at
it, right, it's you know you, you learn kind of what you know

(16:38):
100 grams of this will look likeversus whatever, right so and
yeah, you don't have to track everything and you can get kind
of carried away with it but ultimately like it's that is the
main driver right so and that's what helped me so.
I like what you said about how it's maybe and not and may not
be for you like tracking calories, a certain kind of
endeavor in in order to lose weight, but what worked for you

(17:02):
like what it was weightlifting, of course, right is what?
What kind of diet did you go on?OK, well my diet advice is not
great diet advice. I mean it it again like I was.
It's a, a learning process, likeI was learning kind of how to
eat for weight loss and what works.
What's you know, what is fiber, right?
What is, you know, what satiatesyou and you know, keeps you

(17:25):
full. But I did like a lot of like
aggressive cut and then maintenance, aggressive cut,
maintenance, right? So it's like 2 lbs a week,
right? That kind of deal.
And you know, and I do like an incline walk is like, yeah, I do
that like 6 * a week kind of a deal.
But in terms of diet, like I waseating like, I mean protein

(17:49):
powder and and oats, you know, egg whites, you kind of sub that
for over eggs, right? Because it's it's higher
protein, lower in calories chicken, you know, leaner cuts
of chicken, right? Just because, you know, protein
is, I can't tell you the actual like macros, but it's, you know,

(18:10):
less calories, you know, than say fats, right?
And nothing wrong with fats. You need fats.
I learned that pretty pretty quickly.
When you you're like super tiredand you're like, oh, it's 'cause
I've had like 5 grams of car, 5 grams of fats today.
You know what I mean? Probably should do that, but you
know, leaner cuts of stuff. But you should strive for, you

(18:34):
know, Whole Foods. Yeah, but and diet soda.
I was. I was pretty strong on the diet
soda. Oh, really?
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Like the Diet Pepsi, Diet Pepsi,
Diet Coke, Diet Doctor Pepper, Dr. Pepper.
Yeah, they got all diet stuff now.
Hey, Diet, Diet Dendre Ale. Like Canada Dry.
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's a it's a game

(18:55):
changer. Yeah, you don't have diet iced
tea. They don't, they should.
They should. I'm sure that there's probably
like they're probably cooking itup in the lab and it probably
just doesn't work probably in the States somewhere.
But yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah.
Diet soda was was an actual likea lifesaver.
Like you'd be at the end of the day and you have no more
calories, right? And it's like, you know, you can

(19:16):
have a diet soda or something and it, it kind of keeps you
full. And then you can go to bed and
wake up and start over, right? So don't sleep on diet soda.
Yeah, diet soda. That's where it's at.
Diet. Soda.
Drink lots of water. Yeah, you know.
How was your transition from weightlifting to incorporating
long distance running? Change your approach to fitness
and discipline. I'd say like it's more.

(19:41):
Maybe this doesn't make sense initially, but it allows me to
be more balanced, right? I, I don't know, I just find
running to be a little bit more,I never thought I'd say this,
but a little bit more fun than incline walking.
Like incline walking is like like letting paint dry, you
know, whereas like running, it'skind of like, oh, there's trees

(20:01):
over there or there's somebody walking their dog.
It's what's more fun and you know, you burn more calories
when you run generally, especially if you're going for
like longer distances. So it.
Let you be more balanced in yourdiet.
You know what I mean? You can you can eat a little
more, right and not, you know, suffer the consequences of it

(20:24):
right? So you can I don't know, it's
also just good for you. You feel good too, right?
So you feel good and you can eatmore, which is always plus.
Yeah, you. You ever wanted to run a
marathon? I've thought about it.
Sign up, man. This August, I, I, you know,
it's in service. Marathon.
Why not? All right, what's stopping you?
Dude? I, you know what, I might have
to do it. I might have to do it.

(20:45):
So, you know, I got some friendsthat are big into running.
I joined, we have a little run club on Strava.
So yeah, I I'd be totally down to run a run a marathon.
Yeah, dude, I've never run a marathon like ever before, but
that. 'D be dope, man.
I mean, you could start off witha half too, right?
If it's too daunting. But I think, I think anyone can

(21:07):
run a full marathon. It's just been a good time is
the is the next thing. So no, I'd be totally, totally
we'll. Have to go for we'll have to
train sometime. Works for me but are usually
around baseline. That's by camping Grounds.
I like baseline. I like running, I like running
down baseline. It's just, you know, I see
everyone I know, you know what Imean?
They're just like, you know, oh,there's a video of Tom running

(21:27):
down the road like, you know, soI generally try and like run
through the neighborhoods, but I, I like running down baseline
makes you run faster. Yeah, yeah, I, I like.
The. Like being seen by the cars
because I don't know, I just, I feel like I have this idea of
like, I don't know, just the ripple effect.
Like it'll just remind someone that they should go run, you

(21:50):
know? Yeah.
But I did have a couple guys give me the finger, though.
Really. Yeah.
Yeah. They give me a finger.
That might have been me. It really hurt my feelings.
So, OK, yeah, fair enough, fair enough.
But yeah, running is good. Running man, it's great.
The best free dopamine, the bestpart about running is, is when
you're done and like you're likein a good mood, I guess really

(22:12):
like under like it's a bit of anunderstatement maybe, but you're
just in a upbeat, positive mood changes your whole day.
Right, I never get that feeling from weightlifting.
Like that's why I always incorporate cardio into my my
routine like every single time. And I'll I would much rather
skip weightlifting than skip cardio.

(22:33):
Fair enough. Yeah.
I mean, heart health, you can't neglect it, right?
But I don't know, I like liftingweights, you know, you go
through phases where you like itmore times than others.
But I don't know, lifting weights is good, especially as
you get older, you know? But I don't know, you can never
underestimate the pump. That's true.
And as there's about that, that feeling of looking huge in the

(22:56):
mirror too, right? Yeah, I think I heard this one
that my favorite podcaster, Chris Williamson.
Yeah. Talk about how, like, within the
pump you can see, you can see what you'll look like.
Like, yeah, later on without thepump, you know what I mean?
Like as you grow bigger, as you become more muscular, like

(23:17):
there's a difference between no pump and you pumped up.
Right. It's huge.
Yeah, it's it's huge, but there's a lag in between like
you can axe, you can be at the pump.
You are right now at just like baseline, no pump.
You know what? I mean, yeah, you when you.
Work out. You see yourself.
If I keep going, I'll see myselfin three months normally, right?

(23:38):
Yeah. Just like that.
Right in the mirror. That'll be me, Yeah.
And if it gets the quickest way to just to know what you're
going to look like. Absolutely, yeah.
I mean, as somebody who who usedto be like, you know,
overweight, you know, seeing a bicep vein for the first time is
pretty, is pretty sick, you knowwhat I mean?
Yeah, it was what I feel like. Oh, you feel like, I don't know,

(24:01):
I don't even know what the wordsare.
But you always see pictures of it on like bodybuilding
magazines or you see other people around the gym and you
know, you always see like veins in your hands or whatever.
But then you're, you know, you're doing some bicep curls
and eventually just see it poking out and you're just like,
I'm the shit man, like. Hell yeah.

(24:21):
So, yeah, now, now whenever I gointo like, like go get my blood
drawn, like all the people that do the, the, the, you know, do
your blood work or whatever, they're just like, this is
awesome. We can do.
We can start an IV anywhere. Oh, man, yeah, yeah, you, you
got some. They always comment in your

(24:42):
veins. You got some pretty good veins.
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, you know, going from
not vascular to extremely vascular person, yeah, probably
can't see it, right. But yeah, yeah, it's, it's
pretty cool. Yeah, I got some nurse friends
and they're always like, wow, like nice veins.
I'm like. Thank you.
Yeah, My, my mom's a nurse, so it's a nightly conversation.

(25:03):
She's like, oh, that could startan IV in your calf.
You know that's so. Funny.
Yeah, so funny. So what advice would you give to
someone who's just starting their fitness journey but feels
overwhelmed or discouraged? Well, it's a bit cliche, but
like just do it. But also consistency is better
than perfection. What you do consistently is

(25:26):
better than what you do occasionally perfectly, right?
So if, if you are really good atgoing to the gym and just going
on the treadmill and, and walking or running for like 30
minutes or whatever, whatever you can do is better than, you
know, doing 1. You know, just one workout a
week, you know, once in a while,right?
You have that one workout once amonth, that's perfect.

(25:48):
So do it consistently, right? And you know, go at your own
pace and, and figure out what works for you, right?
Like we talked about counting calories and stuff like that.
But you know, if you're into Pilates or you're into lifting
weights or you're into running or you know, what's the with the

(26:08):
heavy, the powerlifting, you know, whatever, whatever you're
into, go for it and just start slow and, and do it consistently
and build your confidence, you know.
But yeah, I've never really had to struggle with being scared
out of the gym because I've always gone to the gym, you know
what I mean? Closest I ever like get to that
feeling is whenever I walk into Sephora, you know what I mean?

(26:30):
I'm like, this is scary. I just head down back, right,
you know? I, I think for, for me, it was
during COVID and I there is no not as much human interaction
that I've had. Or I guess I, I was talking to
my family a lot and still had mybest friend around.
But like coming back to the gym,I, it was like daunting for me.

(26:52):
Like oh gosh, like what is this?Like a people are going to judge
me. But I prior to this I'd been
going for like 3 years in high school and I think just
surrounding yourself with people, you know, continuously
just socializing. Yeah, it's like a muscle.
It is as well. Like I find I think personally

(27:14):
for me, when I don't act, interact with people as much
kind of weathers and atrophies, just like a bicep.
What if you don't train it as much?
Yeah, yeah, I remember like whenCOVID, you know, kind of ended
in started talking to people again.
I'm like, wow, this is hard, youknow what I mean?
Like, what am I doing, you know?Yeah, it was, it was a bit
weird, but I'd also say like, it's, it's easy for me to say,

(27:38):
but like, don't worry about whatother people are thinking
because, you know, they're most likely in their own head worried
about their own bad hair day. They're not worried about yours,
right? And if they are judging you,
they're probably judging themselves more, right?
That's kind of where that comes from.
Yeah, it's like a reflection of who they are now they self

(27:58):
projecting, right? And I think I've heard about
consistency in like literally every single facet of just
whether it be fitness, whether it be yeah, so good.
Yeah, yeah. No, actually, my, my buddy, he
doesn't like that pillow too. He always takes it out fair.

(28:19):
Enough, I'll put it back. Yeah, it's all good.
But yeah, consistency, man, is so powerful because K within
relationships, if you continuously show up, nobody's
just you're going to be trusted.You show up on time, you show up
for for when you're in need and people are going to want to be

(28:40):
around you. If you're consistently happy.
They're not you're it's when people are around you.
They're not always Tom going to explode on me.
You know, it's like he's consistently just positive and
just chill and fitness. Oh, you can.
Your body consistently is put through this regime of just

(29:02):
whatever split you do and it whether it be rock climbing,
right, there's going back to there's always something that
everybody can do. It's just slowly but surely your
mind isn't even question, like your mind doesn't even argue
with whether you're going to do it or not.
You know what I mean? Like I'm sure there's still days
where it's like difficult than others, but slowly you just go.

(29:24):
You just, it's like eating at this time.
You just you just do it. You don't even put conscious
awareness into it. And then even with studying,
right, consistency, that's how it is versus just cramming like
everything in the long term consistency.
Like I've I've applied that and even to this podcast, like I
really like what you said about like consistency is much better

(29:47):
than like perfection. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And, and I don't know, with fitness and it also translates.
I mean, working out is kind of like life as well, but it's kind
of a snowball effect. Like it's harder at the start,
right? But you know, when you start
seeing a bicep vein or whatever,right.

(30:08):
You can see though, you know, I'll look like that, you know,
I'll just have a bicep vein justchilling, you know what I mean?
If I keep going, right? And then you think, oh, what
would I look like, you know, if I had more, you know, dealt the
bicep separation, all that different kind of stuff.
And it's like, you know, you just, you start to see and it
becomes easier and easier, right?
It does kind of get easier, right?

(30:28):
So. Yeah.
What would you say to yourself at that the heaviest you've
been? Put the fork down.
So, yeah, put the fork down and get on the treadmill.
Really. Yeah.
You know, so pretty much it. Yeah, pretty chilly.

(30:49):
You don't. It seems like you don't ruminate
as much. You don't overthink.
Only at past 11:00 PM. No, I don't know.
I mean, I think I definitely do do think I do overthink.
Maybe I don't know. I just, I don't know.
I just do like. Yeah, you seem chill, like I

(31:10):
feel like you, you seem like you're always in, like the times
we've talked in the gym and you seem really relaxed all the
time. You know that's.
Good. A lot of people say that I I
mean I. Don't know you're you're like,
it seems like you're stoned, butyou're not.
You know what I mean? Like you're chill like like
that. Not like in a in a, you know,
he's dumb stone type deal. It's more like, yeah, he's, he's
mellowed out, you know, he's. Yeah, that's true.

(31:32):
I was thinking like, I'm going to get some mellow, but I guess
so yeah, I'm, I'm a pretty relaxed guy.
Were you always like that? Yeah, I don't know.
I've always been kind of like, like class clown, yeah, getting
going up in school. But I don't know, I, I, I maybe

(31:53):
I'm an anxious person. I don't know.
Because like when they talk about like mental health stuff,
it's like for anxiety and for like depression or whatever.
It like manifests differently inguys versus girls, right?
And I don't see myself as an anxious person.
I've been anxious. I get anxious, right?
But at the end of the day, I guess my mind sets like, well,

(32:16):
just got a ball like, you know. My buddy and I always say that,
you know, there's it could always be worse.
Yeah. You know, I always like he he's
one of the IT reminds me of you actually is always just like
chill, right. And he always like just just
what it whatever it is. We we take action.
Yeah, right. That's like there's no point in

(32:37):
walking back and forth and just thinking about it, right?
Just do something about it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And I mean, you know, it's all about decisions.
And, you know, if you make a baddecision, at least you all you
can do is make another decision,right?
So yeah, you just gotta, I don'tknow, man.
I just say you just got a ball, you know?

(32:57):
Just get a ball. Yeah.
So what role has music played inyour life during stressful
academic periods or personal transformation?
It's huge, Yeah. I mean, music is.
And I think for like a lot of people, it is, it's it's kind of
like a friend, you know what I mean?

(33:19):
In a way, maybe that's kind of weird to say, but it's it's it's
kind of always there and you know, it allows you either
you're playing music or you're listening to music.
It it's like an outlet or whatever you're feeling either
joy or sadness or whatever it isand it can change your mood.
You know what I mean? Like yesterday I was, I don't

(33:40):
remember what I was listening to, but yesterday was, was a
fine day. Like nothing bad happened, but I
was just like listening to like a lot of Radiohead.
And I was just kind of like melancholy.
And I'm like, why am I so melancholy?
And it's like, well, you're listening to Radiohead, you
know? What I mean?
There you go, right. And it's like, you know, I, you
know, I don't want to feel this way.
I'll turn on something else, right?
So and so it, yeah, it's, it's huge.

(34:05):
And so it's almost kind of validates your feelings too,
right? So if you're upset, right, you
know, there's a song that you know, speaks to you, right?
And it validates your feelings in a way, right?
So, and, but it's, it's been huge, right?
And, you know, playing music as well, like especially for you,
like you're this is awful for other people, but like, if I'm

(34:29):
like thinking on something, you know, like, what should I do?
Or any kind of issues, like I just like, well, like plug in my
guitar and I'll just like play scales.
It's, it's terrible for everyoneelse because it's, you know,
like just like a like monotonous, like exercise, just
going up and down the neck. But you know, I, I don't have to

(34:51):
think about it, but I'm just like thinking about whatever I'm
going to do or like conflict that I had.
What's your favorite scale? That's just like the basic
pentatonic scale, right? So you just play that over and
over again, right? And, you know, you just think
about, oh, you know, I should have said this or I should
apologize or something like that.
And it's, it kind of lets you, your brain kind of think right

(35:13):
too. Or, you know, if you're stressed
out or, or anxious or anything like that, you can just go and
play and you know, kind of put, even if it's not your music,
right, It's if it's something else, right, you can kind of
take the frustration out on the instrument, right, rather than
somebody else or you know, something else, right.

(35:34):
So. Yeah.
So it, it's kind of like a meditation for you to be able to
just think about other things that you could do.
And you're, you're playing the scales as well and you're
improving at the, you're gettingthe finger fingering, the
daiserity and as well as you're thinking of possible routes that

(35:56):
you could take within certain relationships or like maybe the
diet with an exercise, what you're gonna do for the future.
That's like a common thing you've been doing.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
It's just it's a good outlet to kind of put energy.
Same with fitness, right? So.
Yeah, yeah, dude. When I there's two sides of kind

(36:17):
of genres for me, there's like one side where it's like about
meditation, about peace. I'm like, I'm listening to a lot
of reggae, a lot of like Jason Roz around.
Like I'm talking about being happy and being relaxed and stop
worrying and it's all like peaceful.
Like it's like, and it, it makesme feel a lot more, you know,

(36:39):
maybe joy at peace, serenity. Then there's a side of me where
it's like there's like Kendrick in there, Drake, some Migos, and
I'm they're talking about drugs and killing people and bitches
and unrelatable stuff, you know,really relatable stuff.
And when I listen to that dude, I just feel like, you know, I'm
just beating someone up and I feel like like AI feel hard as

(37:01):
shit, Like I feel so cool. But then I don't know if I like
definitely the the ladder is notas sustainable and I don't think
people should think that way allthe time.
But usually I do it when I I feel super confident and I I
don't know, I just sporadic sometimes, like when I'm walking

(37:23):
into a room, I kind of want to have that, that feeling of I
guess maybe not not killing people, you know, but but I
could also, I've been trying to prioritize just peace and
serenity. I feel like I don't think
anything good comes out of ego and cockiness, right.
I don't I don't think like the culture of rap.

(37:44):
It's all about hey, look at me. Yeah, Lexan, you know, yeah,
that's true. I've been trying to optimize or
my headspace. I think I, I'm a believer of
everything that you consume and not just shapes you shapes you
like whether that be your friends, like you're overhearing

(38:05):
a conversation, whether it be the music that you listen to
certain words in there, the the vocab that you use, the, the
amount of news you watch, what kind of news you watch, the
amount of memes you watch and you see how that, how it comes
out and just daily conversation.You know, the the things that

(38:25):
pop up as you're doing, like if you're, I don't know if your
work makes you do any monotonoustasks like stickering or
something, or maybe you're watching something or
patrolling. It starts to flood in your head.
And you know, as men, like when you I've seen, I've seen a lot
of friends, you you're watching too much porn or if you're

(38:47):
watching too much, too many memes, right?
It just comes in your head and it does that.
Like, is that what you want? You know what I mean?
Yeah. No, that's true.
Certainly whatever you you consume definitely shapes you
and just like the people you hang around with, right.
So like if you're hanging aroundpeople that you know, it's like
a lot of people that struggle toget sober from any kinds of

(39:10):
drugs or anything like that, that have like a drug problem
hard. If all of your like your
friends, your circle is that waytoo, right?
So you know you are the culmination of like 5 people you
hang around with the most. Right.
Yeah. And like, how would we have
connected to, you know, if we both weren't U of A students and
we didn't if you weren't in law,like in a law club with Brooke,

(39:31):
We're both both didn't go to thegym.
You know what I mean? I think everything like the
reason we met was because we're like, we'd like to engage in
kind of thoughtful conversations, hit the gym, you
know, get an education. And it's like I, it's not like I

(39:51):
feel like I'm, I'm better, you know what I mean?
It's, but it's just like, I feelthat just by conversing with
people that are within the same space, I'm just going to keep
running towards that direction. And I'm, I'm immensely thankful
for that. And like I, it wasn't like it
was. It wasn't really something that

(40:13):
I sought to do. It was just like a revelation
that oh wow, like I've just beenworking out and I've just been
going to school and here opens up in an entire group, entire
cohort of people that I've neverbeen exposed to.
Because in high school, you get to you're immersed in all sorts

(40:34):
of different backgrounds. There's like the smart kid,
there's a nerdy kid, there's a person that just like sports.
There's a person that is both there's a person that, you know,
never goes to school, but like is is really nice.
There's a person that's both nice and like sports.
Yeah, person that just likes music.
But in like when after high school, it kind of just all

(40:57):
sorts itself, right? Everybody just all the branches
out and I just, you get to see that every year more and more
people become set in their own habits.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, I mean, proximity
is huge thing, right? Just being around stuff like

(41:19):
that shapes who you are, right. So, and that's, I mean something
I've always kind of done it likegrowing up, like I was never
great at school, but I was trying to hang around people
that were kind of good at school, so.
And it kind of rubbed off on me.So.
So proximity is huge. Yeah.
You ever have those friends thatget like a 95 and they're
complaining? Yeah.

(41:40):
And then you're looking at your test and it's like a 70 and
you're like. Yes, yeah, exactly.
You know, I hang out around those people too, man.
And yeah, like there's this kid that complained all the time,
he'd get like 99% and like he, it wasn't just like those people
that were fishing for compliments, you know?
You know, those people, they're,they say, oh, I'm, I'm so fat,

(42:01):
but they're not, they're not fat.
Usually girls do this or guys say you know, I I don't know
what the guy equivalent to that.I don't know.
You say you're ugly. Yeah, I'm ugly.
Like, you know, bro, you're cute. *** I don't.
I don't know. Yeah, but like, I hung around
this guy and he actually actually felt so, so miserable

(42:22):
getting anything less than 100 because he expected 100 all the
time. Yeah.
And it was just, it was tough tosee, man, because I'm like, this
guy was just so, so smart. But then it goes down to like
expectation. Yeah.
Right. Like if you got a person that's
expecting an A, any any lower than that and it's like they're

(42:43):
crushed. But then you've got a, a person
that like, just wants to pass. They're expecting to fail.
And they get AD, you know, they're like throwing a party
that night. They're like, yeah.
Yeah, I just expect to see your D and then I'm always surprised,
you know? So that's my goal.
Yeah, that's true. Are there any specific artists

(43:04):
or genres or records that shapedyour playing style or inspired
your musical journey? Oh, man, how long you got?
Oh, dude, we got all day. All day.
Yeah, I don't know, like we're big, like classic rock guy.
Like, you know, your Led Zeppelin's, your Pink Floyd's,

(43:25):
like those kinds of things. Like everything.
Like people wear on on T-shirts.Like those vans are great.
You know, Daft Punk, they're pretty cool.
You know, Miles Davis, you know,a bit of jazz in there, Van
Halen, but mostly like the classic rock stuff.

(43:48):
I used to be like in like high school used to be huge into
Metallica. Like a lot of people are right?
They're coming to Edmonton again.
Again. Really.
Yeah, again. What When?
Think August or something. OK, I'll have to look into that.
Yes, I I, I should have went last year and you know they
didn't, I didn't go but so I'll have to get into that.

(44:12):
But I, I used to be like super big into them, but I mean, they
don't when I listen to him now, like I can appreciate what they
do, but they don't do a whole lot for me, right.
But you know, bands like that, right?
But. I appreciate that you say that.
They don't do a whole lot for me.
I did some songs just hit you. Hey.

(44:32):
And they make you. They make you into a better
person. Yeah, I think that's.
And of course then with everything pleasurable, you have
to do it in moderation because do you ever find that when you
listen to too much music, you just feel depleted?
You're. Fine, Yeah, I think so.
I think like you can at least I do like you'll listen to like an

(44:54):
artist or a genre too much. And it's like you kind of, you
know, that you beat that horse, right?
It's a little bit too much and it's like, you know, time to
move on to something else. Yeah.
I mean, I have Spotify, so it kind of keeps things fresh,
right? But I don't know, I don't listen
to music like every waking hour of the day.
So I just try and like keep it variety, right?

(45:18):
So. What's your was the yearly the
annual Spotify? How many minutes did you?
How many minutes I could pull itup, But it's something maybe
like I'm going to guess maybe 100,000.
What? Let me let me check if that's
right. Yeah, I know.
Go ahead. It's under that might be.

(45:41):
That's the most liberal guess I have.
That's that's crazy. I have a screenshot at somewhere
but let's see. Oh it's it's 59,000.
Sorry, my bad like. I know my mom listens to music
or my stepmom listens to music all the time.
She's like at 70,080 thousand and then I know like I'd look on

(46:04):
people and I'm like, how do you 100,000?
Like that's that means every dayyou're going about it 4 hours,
pretty much four or five hours. Like the reason I have like
40,000 I think minutes. Meditation music gone.
But a lot of it's like 80% of it's podcasts.

(46:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, yeah.
But yeah, a lot of people like they'll like listen to music
while they're studying or they'll put on like ambient
music while they're sleeping or something like that.
Yeah. I just, yeah, 60,000 is pretty
respect that respectable decent amount to listen to music, you
know? Yeah, yeah.

(46:44):
How do you see the connection between the science and music
and the emotional experience of playing it?
But like science and music, I mean like music theory.
I don't really know much about music theory to be honest.
Like I want to take lessons and learn more about like music
theory and stuff like that. I know a couple like definitions

(47:06):
of stuff, but like nothing crazy.
But I feel like it's like reading, you know?
Like anyone can learn to speak their native language, right?
Without necessarily learning howto read, but when you learn to
read, you know, you learn other words and vocabulary, like
expand your vocabulary and you're able to articulate
yourself better and, you know, express yourself better than you

(47:30):
know, using smaller words, right?
And so by learning music theory,you are able to, you know, just
articulate your thoughts better.I can't, but I can imagine you
would be able to, you know? Yeah, yeah, by knowing what to
like what that word says and youcan find out like the Latin root

(47:53):
and you can find, you know, the different pronunciations and
then you just consolidate the framework around it and helps
you remember and it helps you just be more expressive on to,
you know, how you how you converse with people.
And same way with music where, oh, you know, G OK, that that's

(48:14):
in that scale, that's in this scale.
And then all the chords formulate around that.
And then you can just then again, you, you can't just learn
theory, right? You actually got to play it.
Yeah, yeah, 'cause like you can learn all the theory and you can
be very, very knowledgeable. But unless you actually play it,
play music, yeah, then you, you don't really.

(48:35):
Use it. Yeah, you got to use it.
Absolutely. Yeah.
So. What originally drew you to
political science, and how's your perspective on politics
changed since starting university?
What do you mean a political science?
Well, I was good at it. Like that's really short and

(48:56):
simple. Like I started my first year of
university and I was like open studies and I took polycy one O
1 and I finished with like a 95 and I'm like well this is my
major now. I couldn't just say the same,
Yeah. I don't know how I haven't, but
it's like, you know, guess this is what this is what I'm doing
now, right? So, and but I've always liked

(49:17):
social studies, like throughout grade school.
And yeah, so I've always like enjoyed that stuff.
And my perspective on politics has changed.
I think I've mellowed out a bit,right?
Just like, you know, used to be like super, like unsafe,
radical. But just like, this is the way
things are. This is how they should be,

(49:39):
right? If you super.
Conservative man. Yeah, I was.
So and you know, whatever side you kind of start on or
whatever, you know, I think it'sgood to kind of mellow out a
bit, you know what I mean? Cause when you think you're
right, you're probably not whatever side you are and you
know, knowing that you don't know everything, right.

(50:00):
And so that's, that's what that's what universities taught
me is that I don't know anything.
So. Socrates.
Socrates, that's me, man. Yeah, I'm getting out of The
Cave. Like this cave.
That's me. Yeah, you get put to death for
the truth. Yeah, pretty much.
Did his his family is like man Socrates, just please, we want
you alive so just admit you're. Wrong.

(50:23):
OK, so you know. No, I'm not.
I'm dying for this. Yeah.
Yeah, it's like a true philosopher, you know, just.
I don't, I don't know much. I don't know anything.
Yeah, pretty much. Dude.
I thought philosophy one O 1 wasso powerful for me, learning
about Socrates, how like he questioned everything and like
all my life, I've never really Iyes, I was skeptical a lot of

(50:43):
the time, but I never really putconscious thought to it.
I never really like, I didn't really know any, like, figures
that were like, oh, they were known for, you know, questioning
the top moguls of business and art and religion here.
This guy was getting put to death.
It was recorded by Plato. And I was just like, my, my mind

(51:03):
was blown. And then coming to university,
right, This is, I was highly conservative and a lot of my
friends, you know, we are all like, we all follow Jordan
Peterson, all religious and we all like we're against kind of
the LGBT and we would, we didn'treally subscribe to that.
But then coming on to that, coming on to campus, every like

(51:25):
persons like liberal or at leastmajority.
And then I kind of got to make friends with some of them and I,
I asked them certain questions. I'm like, oh, why do you, why do
you, why are you atheist? And they give me the response or
why are you, why are you, you know, trans, Why are you this
and why are you that? And it's not like, you know, I

(51:45):
understand it. It's that I don't understand it
in the fact that I know they're still good people and they're
still kind of some of them are my friends that like now I'm
just like, OK, I'm just going towithout thorough research, I
can't make a conclusion just yet.
You know, I can't make a solid kind of ground because we're

(52:06):
still still in our 20s, right? I can't make I.
I was acting like I was already 40, you know, like, oh, like,
I've gone through so much. Like no, I don't know.
Much. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. And being able there's there's
nothing wrong with being able tosay I don't know something,
right, you know Yeah. And.

(52:26):
And ignorance is like the beginning of knowledge, right.
And that's that's the sign of a smart person to be able to say I
don't know, you know, have you ever met somebody who's stupid?
They don't. They know everything so.
Bro, and have you ever met someone that tries to just
create conversations with you onthe like, whether they're just

(52:46):
trying to fit in and they just end up sounding delusional or
like they lost like insecure? You ever had that where let's
say you're talking about cars and I like we're in a group and
I don't know anything about carsand, but I'll just chime in just
to chime in. You know, it's best to, that's
why I I've seen that happen and I just stay quiet if I don't

(53:07):
know anything. About that topic, nothing to
say. You know this is wrong with not
saying anything, right? Yeah, but I feel like it's so
uncomfortable for people, you know?
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I guess they got something
going on so. Yeah, yeah, 'cause like, you
know, I was never a car guy. Yeah, but I had, I was friends
with some car guys in high school and you know, they'd we'd
be in a group and if they're talking about cars, I'd go

(53:27):
quiet. I'd just go like it was like, I
just like stand there and I'm like, Oh yeah, but I still try
to keep up with the things that I do know.
I'm like, oh, do you speed like,or do you oil change?
Do you know what color is your car?
You know, the basic stuff. But As for like the X8350, you
know, like, oh, this engine, I'mlike this car model.

(53:51):
I I couldn't tell you. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
But I mean, yeah, ask questions,you know what I mean?
Like, oh, how does this work? How does that work?
Because I mean, if you know anything about human nature, if
you want to say there is such a thing that people like to talk
and people like to talk about what they're interested in,
right. I mean, as you kind of got the
whole podcast doing that, right.So.

(54:13):
So if you got a car guy like, oh, how does this work?
How does that work that, you know, they'd love to just kind
of just laid out there, right? So.
Yeah, yeah, It's like, that's ifyou're actually wanting to know
more, though. Like I with cars, like I, I
couldn't care less, you know what I mean?
Like I like, I like more so the enthusiasm and what, what kind
of why it drives them, no pun intended.

(54:35):
Why, why they like it so much. That's kind of what I'm
interested in. But ask for like the mechanic
side, the technicalities, I don't care.
Like I'll happily, I have some friends that are really into
cars and I'll. Oh, yeah.
Why do you like it? And then they'll tell me how
passionate they are. And I love just listening to
Yeah, but it's not for you. Right.
Yeah, but it's. Just not for me.
Like I just don't. I'm not going to spend my day

(54:57):
fixing cars. Maybe one day.
My dad's always been telling me that it's like one of the most
expensive things that you can spend on, especially if you you
go to the the dealership and like get or Costco to get your
car repaired. Like if you can just do it
yourself, you'll save. Thousands.
Yeah. Yeah, it is.
It's yeah. Doing it yourself.

(55:18):
Like I do my own oil changes andlike change my tires and and you
know, wiper fluid. Nothing crazy but just your
basic maintenance and you save like a lot of money.
So it's like. 100 bucks for an oil change versus like 20 to do
it yourself. That just reminded me of, like,
calorie counting, Yeah. Like the like the basic.
Yeah. Would help you so much.

(55:38):
Yeah. Yeah, dude, that's something I
need to do, Yeah. Change your oil or.
Now that my my dad does it all for me, kind of spoiled like
that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've had my car since I was in grade 12.
Oh yeah, that was like 6 years ago.
So yeah, I've been really spoiled by my dad.
In what ways do you think your interest in law and politics

(56:00):
intersect with your passions like fitness and music?
Question. I think I used to have an answer
for this. I'm trying to remember what it
was. Well, I think I mean, this is
maybe a bit of a blanket statement, but in a lot of ways

(56:22):
everything's political. You know, like fitness is
political, like getting in shape.
In a lot of ways it's very political.
Like people that have that are more financially successful or
have lots of money are generallyin better physical shape versus
people that are poor or, you know, working class or stuff
like that or not, right. And, you know, it's kind of a

(56:45):
systemic aspect to that. And that's that's pretty
interesting to think about that.And you can think about maybe
removing some of the barriers toentry to fitness, right.
In a lot of ways, physical fitness is like a a luxury,
especially for a lot of people, Right.
And when you think about things like Pilates, like Pilates is
like ridiculously expensive, right?

(57:06):
I've never done it, but I've just hear people talk about it,
right. I heard it's hardcore.
Yeah. It's pretty hardcore.
Yeah. I'm not brave enough, but, yeah.
But fitness is political, right?And in a lot of ways, how does
law interact with politics? Well, I mean, law and politics,

(57:29):
I feel like it's pretty, pretty straightforward, right?
You know, politics uses the law.I mean, everything uses the law.
I don't really know how law interacts with with fitness
though. Maybe like your gym contract, I
don't know. Yeah, well, and I'm not going on
your phone too much within the machines.

(57:50):
Maybe it's not in the rules itself, but it's still kind of,
I guess that's more like a social thing.
Yeah. Yeah.
But then again, a lot of it is social as well.
Like the law. You shouldn't.
I mean, you could litter, right,and get away with it, but is
that again, it's against the lawlittering, I guess you can take
it from that. Like a by law.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude.

(58:11):
I don't know much about politicsor the law.
It's either yeah, no, I just speak confidently.
Yeah, yeah. And that that does the job.
I think that's, that's what it is.
But this entire thing, you're just don't know anything about
fitness or music. Making it up as I go along.
Dude, I've, I've seen so many videos of people, like say some

(58:34):
bogus stuff and it goes viral and everybody in the comments,
like believes it. Yeah.
But then there's always like, then I've done already done the
research. I know it's not true, but they
say it was such conviction that it's like they look you dead in
the eye. They're like tomatoes.
That's that's a vegetable, you know, And I'm like, no, it's

(58:55):
not, buddy. It's been a fruit.
But yeah, man, it's, it's crazy how much confidence work can
take you. Hey.
Yeah, pretty much your delusion.I mean, if you want to get
anywhere in life, just be a little delusional.
Yeah. But eventually though, like time
will tell, like eventually people detect that you're

(59:16):
exposed. It's not backed up in like,
evidence. You know what I mean?
Yeah. I don't know, man.
I, I don't want to get political, but I look at the
president of the United States. That guy's pretty illusional.
And sometimes here and there. And he's still going.

(59:38):
He's still going. So yeah, I don't want to get
political that I just might clipthis.
Yeah, guys. Yeah, you didn't.
Mention his name so. That's true.
I didn't. So you can.
I just said, you know, I didn't say which.
One could be from him, you know.But you did say the US, so I
guess. Lost but you.
Like say which year? There's 47 of them, you know

(01:00:00):
what I mean? So.
Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
Yeah. What the like law?
You wanted to get into law school, right?
What kind of law lawyer do you want to be good?
Question and I won't really knowuntil you know, like I go and

(01:00:21):
take courses, right? And be like, this is this
interests me. This doesn't right.
It's like, you know, when you take your first year of
university, it's like, Oh yeah, my like sociology.
I don't you know or you know that that kind of thing and.
Yeah, I know. I feel that, man.
I I thought I was going to be really into philosophy because I
love my quotes. Yeah, like I quote all the time
and that's podcast and my posts.I got into philosophy and I

(01:00:44):
just. This is, this is not for me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much. But I don't know, interest me
like copyright law interest me. Like, I guess I'm talking about
music, right? Like that's kind of similar
copyright law, like intellectualproperty.

(01:01:06):
And then like the very like generic, like criminal law.
Like I think defence law would be very interesting.
I mean, prosecution would be cool, but I feel like it's, it's
maybe a little, I don't know, that's a little bit more
straightforward when you're prosecuting.
I feel like it's a little bit more challenging to be a defence
attorney than it is to be a prosecutor.

(01:01:28):
It's really easy to accuse somebody, but it's it's a
little, I feel like more challenging to say no, they
didn't, you know? Yeah.
Yeah, I watched a Better Call Saul, and that's why every time
I think of a lawyer man, I just think of like, Jimmy McGill.
That's me, man, That's me. Chipping, slipping Jimmy.
Slipping Jimmy. Yeah, you, you in there

(01:01:49):
representing Edmonton's finest criminals.
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, I'm building up a
clientele. So slipping, Jimmy.
And Jimmy, man, dude, that the scene with Chuck, man, I've,
I've watched that like 10 times.When you're with Jimmy's older
brother, this chicanery. Yeah, this is chicanery.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great, great scene.

(01:02:12):
I love that show. Did I hated Chuck?
He was kind. Of a He's kind of an ass.
I don't know because I I'm a brother, Yeah.
And I just. I can't imagine like, you know,
the big older brother stuff where like you're kind of mean
to them growing up. I'm an only child.
Oh wow, the only child. But I can kind of get what
you're talking about. Yeah, yeah.

(01:02:32):
But you know, but Chuck is just like it was so much more deeper.
Yeah, yeah. You know, he took like that
mentality as a, as an older brother growing up to now, like,
having a vendetta, having like aresentment, deep resentment just
because Chuck's mom likes Jimmy better.

(01:02:54):
Yeah. You know, yeah, I can't relate
to it personally, but I can imagine sibling dynamics would
be interesting. So did you ever I know my
friends that are only children, they they always would like
longed for like a sibling. No, no, you never longed for a
sibling. Not.
Really. I mean, maybe like an older
sister would be cool, but not really, man.

(01:03:19):
I'm living the dream. So yeah.
I don't, I don't know. I I think, I think the, not to
get political here, but I think,I think the propaganda against
the only children is a government plot to make you have
more kids. I truly think that.
Really. I think so, yeah.
Yeah. Well, OK.
If we had, if the birth rate wasone, yeah, we would decline.

(01:03:42):
The economy would decline, everything would decline.
We'll see, you know. Labor, labor is no labor is a
it's a commodity, right? Like anything else, right?
It has a value. And so if there's more labor, so
more people in labor market, thevalue of that goes down, right?

(01:04:02):
So they don't have to pay peoplemore.
But if there's less people, right, means there's less people
to do work, means you have to pay people more, right?
OK. So you think?
Supply and demand, right? You think that's why?
That's why, like Elon Musk is like, you know, shitting his
britches over, like declining birth rates.
You know, I'm not even. I'm not.

(01:04:23):
He is. I've actually never.
I've never heard of this thoughtor this this idea that maybe
having less of a population is actually better for society.
Because I just watched an entireKurtsey Grout video and like,
the declining are, you know, courtesy grot.
No, it's like a science YouTube channel.
Maybe, maybe I've seen it, but they.

(01:04:44):
Just talked about how like SouthKorea has like a less than one
birth rate or something. They talk about like the
economic consequences as a result of this.
As kids, as the population gets older, like in their 80s and 90s
and can't work anymore, they're going to shoulder all the
economic responsibility from allthe old people retiring, you

(01:05:06):
know? Yeah, I'm not saying that
there's not like actual problemshaving declining birth rate, but
that is like one of the reasons I feel like people are like
concerned about it is like people that you'd have to pay
you more and they can make less money, right.
But what was the original question?
What was? I don't know.
It doesn't matter anymore. Where are we I?
Don't know, but yeah, I've, Oh yeah, we're talking about having

(01:05:31):
siblings. Yeah.
I never really, I've never really yearned for a sibling.
Yeah, dude, I got to it gets crazy, man.
It gets crazy. There's a lot of politics and
siblings. Yeah, there's a lot, man.
You get more attention or whatever.
As a middle child, man, I you just the hardest role ever.
The hardest. I'd have lived a very, very hard
life 'cause like a you're in thelike, it's not quite, you're not

(01:05:52):
quite the, you're not the youngest where everything, your
parents get tired, but you're not quite the oldest where
everything's new. You know, you're, you're kind of
right in the middle. You know, you, you're tugged in
between right and you have to kind of parents your little
brother and and then you have to.
You're kind of a peacemaker. Almost kind of.
Yeah, yeah, you have to mediate kind of everyone.

(01:06:14):
Yeah. And OK, Yeah, I don't know.
I've never, I don't really notice like to have siblings.
I think my life's pretty great. My, my childhood and
everything's been great, you know?
Royd would be happy. Yeah, he'd have a lot of things
to say, wouldn't he? But so, yeah, so yeah.

(01:06:39):
And this is good. With law being one option and
other career paths on your mind,what values or goals are guiding
your decision making process forthe future?
I'd say like, you know, law is not like the only thing that I'm
interested in, like architectureis pretty cool.

(01:07:00):
Like that interests me as well doing that.
And yeah, just just various other things.
But I think one of the things isthis like now that you're coming
towards the period in life in which you're going to graduate
university, right? And you know, be on your own and
whatever that is, I think important is to kind of sit with

(01:07:24):
whatever that however that makesyou feel anxious, happy, sad,
whatever. Think like why does it make you
feel that way? But also, you know, whether or
not you want to like go on and pursue more education, but it's
like, why, why are you doing that?
Like what's motivating that? And one of the things that that
I thought about was like my decision to go to university in

(01:07:45):
the 1st place. And I feel like looking back and
I don't regret going to university at all.
Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't trade it for the world, but you
know what motivated that it was,it was during COVID and you're
kind of coming to the end of high school, which is all you've
ever known as school every day of the week and you're kind of
anxious. It's like, what the hell else is

(01:08:05):
there to do? Right?
And I feel like it was largely motivated in a lot of ways by
like anxiety. You know what I mean?
It's just like, I can just delayadulthood, right?
And and you're not necessarily doing that when you're going to
university, but I guess maybe whatever I do, whether that's
law or architecture or anything else, is that it's not motivated

(01:08:27):
by, you know, just anxiety, right?
Just prolonging the future, right.
So yeah. So Kaylee, one of my podcast
guests told me that you should never make a decision in times
of emotion. Yeah, yeah.
You 'cause that's, those are thetimes where it's high stress and

(01:08:49):
you often regret it. But if you make a decision when
you're relaxed and you're chilled, you got good sleep,
good diet, and and you're at peace, that way you can actually
reflect into the inner soul. Like, I don't know if you
believe in the soul at all. Like the inner core of who you
are, What do you stand for? What are your values?
Like I was just in AI was in a sales job a month ago and you,

(01:09:14):
you'd make good money, but it was like 1:00 to 9:00 PM.
We have like a 12:00 PM meeting and it was arduous.
It was long and it was a lot to stomach because you get rejected
all day and it's a script you have to follow and you're
knocking on people's doors. It's very uncomfortable.
And I did some reflection right in, in the times of emotion and

(01:09:37):
I'm like, this isn't for me. This isn't for me.
But then on days on the weekendswhere I'm like at peace, like
I'm not, I'm dreading to go and I'm like, oh, I, I, I want a
podcast more than just going against my values.
Yes, I value discipline, but I also, I much more value time
with family and friends. And that was taken away from it.

(01:09:58):
And like, sure, I, I argued withmyself as to, OK, this is just
for the one summer and I'm like,dude, 1 summer is a lot.
And then I'm back to school. So I want to be able to just
choose a job where I can still do this.
I can still I I don't want to age 10 years in one one summer,
you know what I mean? Yeah, that's fair.
So absolutely. And, and I think another thing
that motivates my decision is like every year of university

(01:10:21):
for me has been very eye openingand like you grow as a person
immensely. What is it like 6 months is like
the fall and winter term is roughly like 6:00-ish months.
Like I, I feel like by the end of it, I'm always a different
person with different thoughts on the world and everything like
that. And I just feel like, you know,

(01:10:41):
I want to do one more year and see what kind of person I become
then and then make my decision, you know what I mean?
So. I like that I somebody asked me
at the gym what keeps me going. It's out of the blue.
Hey bro, what keeps you going? Like like for real like you do
you actually want to know and pre workout pre workout gym

(01:11:03):
anime? No, I, I said, if did your day
stopped last year at the same time, everything after that
wouldn't have materialized, wouldn't have been realized.
And you now you're standing right now, you did something and

(01:11:24):
whether that be good or bad, right, all it comes down to the
choices that you've made that led up to that moment.
And if you just stopped, it wouldn't have been realized.
That's what keeps me going because as you look back to you
had said that, oh, within after the semester, you change into
this entire person without with different, a different

(01:11:46):
perspective onto life with different knowledge.
And maybe you are more, maybe you get a little set back.
Maybe you, you move forward a little bit, but you're changing
and it's like there's this idea of perfection.
Rather people, they, they look at this idea of themselves and
they. But I don't think, I think right
now you're enough. You know, you're perfect the way

(01:12:08):
you are. And I think yes, yeah.
And I think. We're all trying to aspire for
that, but really each year is just a different version, and we
should just accept that. Yeah, I agree.
Yeah. The project of the self is never
really finished, right? And I don't, nor should it be,
right. But yeah, you know, each year of
university has its own little mini dose of adversity and, you

(01:12:31):
know, personal growth and, you know, just see how you feel by
the end of it, right? So no.
Were you always that it sounds like a very optimistic way of
looking about life. You know, you a lot of people
would say that oh, I'm aging, you know, I like my my fluid
intelligence. It's gone like getting lower, my

(01:12:53):
brains getting slower, you know,more responsibilities.
Now what? Why do you How did you
formulate? That like positive mindset yes,
but I don't. Think it's necessarily just
positive mindset. It's like optimism.
I don't know. I've never really thought of
myself as an optimistic person. I'm pretty grumpy.

(01:13:15):
Yeah, but you can be grumpy optimistic man.
Oh yeah, I don't know, like you.Can you can be mad at something,
but still like like the world, like the your life, you know,
like hope for change and. Yeah, I have no idea because I
yeah, I really don't know. Because, I mean, my parents are
good people, but I don't ever think of them as, like,

(01:13:36):
optimistic people, you know, like my one of my grandma's
favorite quotes. Like, it can always get worse.
So it's like, you know. But isn't that optimistic?
Isn't that like right now is thebest so it can always get worse?
I guess, yeah, if you look at itfrom that, from that
perspective, it's like, you know, it's crap now, but it can

(01:13:58):
always get worse. I, I, I it's kind of
invalidating just whatever, you know?
But I, I don't know, I guess maybe it's optimistic.
I, I, I really don't know. I just, I just keep going like,
like everybody else. I think it's actually, it's
freeing get into like wouldn't, wouldn't when I somebody says

(01:14:23):
that we could always get worse. Yeah.
It's like before you got ill before like some big life
changed for the worse. You thought that all your
problems, like the difficulties that you've had so far, you
thought you've seen it all. And so I think gratitude is a
good antidote to this is you were worrying so much, being

(01:14:46):
anxious, being going, oh, I don't have this, I don't have
that. I need that.
I need this. But then the day comes where
it's like a cancer diagnosis, right?
Or maybe a loved one dies or maybe you get in a car accident
and there's this. I think it gets credited to some
of the people. But the last person I heard that
it was credited to was Joe Rogan.
It's the worst thing that that'shappened to you is the worst

(01:15:09):
thing that's happened. Yeah, that's true.
Like in your friend mind, it's the worst thing.
Yeah. And when you the longer you live
just the more things happen and the more.
The worse it gets, the worst keeps getting worse.
But at the same time, like you can view that as, oh wow, all

(01:15:30):
these things happened to me, this sucks.
Or you could go all these thingsthat happened to me.
I am strong. You can get through anything.
That's true, yeah. You can always shift your
perspective to kind of yeah, either see the good right, find
the silver lining. I don't know, I guess I find the
silver lining in like the positive stuff.

(01:15:52):
I've just never thought of myself as a positive person.
I never really thought of myselfas a negative person either.
I just like trying to see myselfas a person, you know?
I guess you know. There you do.
You meditate. At all.
Yeah, I was going to ask you that.
Like, I don't meditate. My dad meditates occasionally.
I don't my my kind of thought process and like I'm willing to

(01:16:15):
give it a shot, but my thought process on meditating is like,
you know, you know, you're always trying to find like be
focused and be calm. That's kind of the objective
with with meditation, right? Yeah, it is.
Yeah. To to to be present, Yeah.
To be present. To let go of your worries, to

(01:16:36):
free yourself from the the prison in your own mind.
Yeah, that's true. I, I, I've never really found
like my mind to be like prison, to be honest, like, and I've
like been anxious or whatever. But I've always, my thought
process is like, if I'm feeling this way, I shouldn't.
And I've never really meditated.But my thought process is like,

(01:16:58):
if, if you feel this way, you should address it instead of
just trying to meditate on it. You know what I mean?
I see that you you seem to be very alone.
Erotic what you're you're not anxious like you're low in
neuroticism. Oh, OK.
Yeah, yeah. Like you're like, maybe there is

(01:17:19):
no room for, I mean, meditation for you because I think most
people I meet are just highly anxious.
Like most people that I, that are on this podcast are worried
about, you know, wanting to do this, wanting to do that.
So and like for me too. That's why it's good for us to
kind of step back and and relax,you know, and where it seems
like for you, you kind of go about you don't see value in it

(01:17:43):
because you're already in that Ithink exactly, you know, you
accept the moment. Is that maybe I, I don't know, I
think I definitely get anxious and and I get in my own head a
bit, right? I mean, I was, I was anxious
starting this podcast, right. So, but I don't know, I just, I
just kind of feel like, well, you know, whatever I'm nervous

(01:18:05):
about or attached or whatever itis, I just feel like, you know,
there's an action I could take to kind of quell that, you know,
so. You're more of an action based.
Yeah, I don't want to be like, you know, oh, be an alpha male
and, you know, just attack the day.
Like that's just kind of what I do, right.
But I I can see the value in meditation.

(01:18:25):
I've just never really given it a shot.
Well, you should man. Well, we could see if it's for
you, but the, the best way, the easiest way is to just have a, a
guide of meditation that's on Spotify and somebody will guide
you through it. And it's like 10 minutes.
There's this Andrew Heuerman hasthis side.

(01:18:47):
It's called NSDR, non sleep, sleep, deep breaths, which is
pretty much meditation. And then he'd like makes you
focus on your breath like you'removing every single being
mindful of the movements in yourbody, like being mindful of your
thoughts and closing, shutting off the visual side because

(01:19:07):
you're bombarded with the visualstimuli.
And then the other way is to focus on your breath, like close
your eyes and just focus on yourbreath because your mind's
probably still going like all the time, right?
So to just focus on your breath and when you does that sound
like? Like, no, no, I think it's
great. I'm just thinking, like I did
try meditating in junior high before basketball games just to

(01:19:29):
like, ride the bench. I was just thinking about that.
It's just really funny. So yeah, I'd like before every
basketball game, I'd like meditate for 10 minutes and just
be like, I'm going to get a rebound today.
I wouldn't get the rebound. I just run.
Manifestation row manifesting. Yeah, I'm not.
I'm not laughing what you're saying.
I was just thinking about. It can be K before meditating.
I thought it was kind of funny. Like it it sound like comedic

(01:19:52):
like what is this Like, you know, for a lot of people, they
just picture like a monk on a rock.
You're in a cave, you know, bald, and they're in robes and
like, it's just, I don't know, you got to try it.
Yeah, actually give. Some time be like 3 weeks and
yeah it's just it's freeing man.I I don't know what it is.
It's just like we, we're always wanting to get the next thing

(01:20:18):
right? Like oh this and that, but like
to actually be truly present. It's hard to get there, man.
It's hard to cuz it's hard like even right after you leave this,
you're probably wanting to do something and then something
your brains always craving thinking stimuli, thinking
ahead. You're never actually here.
And it's hard to be here, you know, because in this day and

(01:20:39):
age of dopamine abundance, there's so many things that you
can do that you should do. Yeah, but but you're pulling
every direction. Yeah, yeah.
So it's good to just I. I think there's some value in
that, yeah. Being president, being president
is difficult. Yeah, dude, Yeah.
So. Yeah.
Do you have any last words to known to people and the the

(01:21:01):
viewers, the listeners who are anxious like what do you what
should you like to kind of go about your psyche and how you go
about staying relaxed and staying productive?
What would you advise people? I just stay relaxed.
I don't know, I just one step ata time really.

(01:21:25):
Like just kind of, you know, do what you can do immediately, you
know, if if it's in your control, like worry about it.
I sounded like a stoic and I hate that right but.
Dude I love. Stoicism, but but it's just
like. Like Horror Story.
I was going to mention that I. Guess I am I I like the book
Meditations like by Marcus Aurelius.
If if somebody gets some value out of it, more power to you.

(01:21:47):
I don't want to piss in your cornflakes.
But I can't relate to it at all really.
No, I can't because it's like this.
Key. What about the quote the that
your happiness is determined by the quality of your thoughts?
Isn't that like powerful bro? Like I'm first time I read that
I was foaming in the mouth. Sure, yeah, fair enough.

(01:22:08):
I don't know, I think I just think when I, I have the book
Meditations, right? It's a pretty popular book.
Like people that want to like get into it.
And yeah, again, if you, you getsomething out of it, that's
that's cool. But it's this it's this guy who
was a, was he the emperor of Rome, the best emperor of Rome?
They say I I for somebody has a minor in history.

(01:22:30):
I I don't know anything about the Roman Empire.
I just got to come out and say that.
But he I just can't like really relate to him.
Like being like everyone's beneath me, like nobody's
beneath me. Like I don't, I just like his
situation in my situation. Like I I go to university and,
you know, go to the gym and scroll on Instagram reels.

(01:22:51):
He commands an army Like. I can't relate to that at all.
Like. But Kate.
But his level of power though? Yeah, No, it's, it's cool.
That's. OK, the equivalent to that would
be like Elon Musk or like being,you know, the general of an of
an army being the higher ups. But he still didn't have any ego
like he he let go of kind of thethe power, even though he was

(01:23:13):
the most powerful. And on the.
Planet. Yeah, on the planet, you know.
I I, I, I don't know much about him at like what he did like,
but I guess like he didn't abusehis powers, right?
And that's, that's admirable if that's true.
But yeah, I don't know. I, I mean, I think you can, you
can take anything from any kind of philosophy.

(01:23:34):
And I guess I've been kind of like subtly preaching Stoicism,
but I don't know. I think you have to think like,
is, is happiness like the quality or either happiness is
determined by the quality of your thoughts.
Is happiness the ultimate goal in your life?
What is happiness? I think for me it's fulfillment.
I don't think happiness that should be something people

(01:23:55):
aspire to have because I think it's really, it's fleeting, but
fulfillment, it's like tethered to your soul.
Yeah, that's true. Like, like what's something like
you're really passionate about? Podcasting.
Podcasting. OK.
Running family? I don't know.
Fair enough. And they all have very difficult

(01:24:19):
aspects like I'll use running, for example, like there is a
part of running that kind of sucks.
Will you like there is like it'sit's it can be physically tough
sometimes you don't want to do it sometimes, right, But it's
it's rewarding right in the moment.
You're probably sometimes you'rethinking like, man, this isn't
it, you know, Or if it's something you're really

(01:24:41):
passionate, like you know, you're really passionate about,
right? You know, being happy in that
moment isn't really your primaryconcern, right?
Some things, I just think there's more things to life than
just being happy. I think there's a certain aspect
about it, but I don't think fulfilment and happiness, maybe
you're necessarily intertwined. But you like maybe sacrifice,

(01:25:04):
maybe acceptance of pain? Yeah.
Accepting of misery, maybe. Maybe I mean, it's, it doesn't
sound like popular to say it, but like, you know, when like
you're, you know, you're dietingor whatever, right?
That's not like you're, you're losing weight.
Like that's it's pretty, it's, it can be kind of miserable
sometimes, you know, to say no or to go to bed hungry or all

(01:25:26):
these different things. But when you finish, it's pretty
fulfilling, right? So yeah, you're not exactly
happy, right? You'll you'll love this book
called dopamine nation. OK, it adds A framework as to
what you just described as to like delayed gratifications in
there and just the pain and pleasure balance.

(01:25:47):
It's constantly working. One, if you tip on the pain pain
side, you'll tip on the pleasureright after as a by product, you
tip on the pleasure side, you'llget pain right after.
And with this, too much pain as well can lead to further pain.
You can abuse both sides, but like an equal equilibrium

(01:26:09):
balance on each right. It's it's where you should aim
for right? But then again, right, to be
great at something, there's sacrifices that need to be made,
but it all comes down to what your values and what your goals
are, right? Like who you?
Are I guess maybe what I'm saying is don't conflate
happiness with pleasure. Yeah, right.

(01:26:30):
So because they're not the same thing, right?
That's just my little tangent, right?
But I, I I can see where you're coming from.
Yeah, yeah. Like I think, I think happiness
would really equate to pleasure because you can just eat that
chocolate bar and you could get a burst of dopamine.
But and then like, how are you going to when you're looking in

(01:26:51):
the mirror, right? Do you really feel happy with
yourself? And do you feel good like 6
hours after that? Do you have energy to go to work
to study? Like what are your objectives?
And I think for for me, man, I think I just like the way I can
go about my diet as clean as possible and exercise as much as

(01:27:12):
I do is because I can present myself better to people.
Yeah, like I can show up better.I think that's for me.
And I was my philosophy that I've acquired, you know,
constantly finding meaning and everything, you know, whether it
be washing the dishes, saying how are you to a friend?
You know, I'm sleeping, sleepingas meaning to me, right?
It gives, makes me helps me showup better.

(01:27:35):
And so I like preparing for the next or just being in the moment
trying to trying to find ways tooptimize.
Is there anything you found that's meaningless?
Meaningless probably not no, I think OK, maybe real you could
make it I I I can make an argument for reals being
meaningful, you know, but there's definitely things that

(01:27:58):
are meaningful in a destructive way like smoking could be really
meaningful. You know it it provides social
bonding it like if your if your friends smoke like it if you
don't smoke, you'll be left out.Yeah, it's a very bad way to
they explain these things but vaping for me was one of the
most meaningful things that to connect with my high school

(01:28:20):
buddies. I think drinking right, like a
lot of the destructive things wecan do even like some toxic
relationships are filled with meaning.
I got, I don't know, like I think as humans we're always
just trying to find meaning, right?
I think that's there's meaning in everything.
Otherwise why would we do the stuff that we do?
Some just become addictive and some consume us.

(01:28:45):
Yeah, OK. Do you think we should find
meaning in things? Should we just accept the
meaninglessness? I think it really depends on
what empowers you. But for me, I find meaning in
everything, whether it be like when I was before you came here,
I was just putting my clothes inmy, you know, in arranging them
in my closet. And I think it's so I can get a

(01:29:06):
better sleep. I can have less impact on my
mind. I less kind of more storage to
be able to store emotion and more time to add an effort into
the conversation and just optimize my sleep so I can edit
better the next day. Water, same thing that goes down
to my, my health and everything.But if that I have also met

(01:29:31):
people that it, it stresses themout to be able to think like
that. And so I say if it works for
you, which I think for most people, we all crave meaning,
but I think I had to I have met people where it discombobulates
them and go, Oh, what's like this stresses them out and they
they become really paranoid. And so, Oh, I did this is this

(01:29:52):
has meaning and this has that and you're pointing it out.
But for me personally, what about you?
Do you, would you would you say meaning having meaning and
everything is? Not positive, maybe, I don't
know. I, I think on the individual
level, I guess maybe if, if it'sbenefits your life in some kind

(01:30:16):
of way, in some ways, I think accepting the meaningless, like
nihilism, like the meaninglessness is, is kind of
empowering in a lot of ways. You know, it's like you just go.
I wouldn't say I'm a nihilist, No.
Like, not in the strictest senseof the word.
But in some ways it's like, you know, being able to say, you
know what, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter.

(01:30:38):
It's kind of freeing, you know what I mean?
Yeah, no, I've read a ton of books on that.
Like we're just on a floating rock.
That's and I'm gonna we're just in a blink of an eye.
Our existence is nothing in the grand scheme of things, right?
And I, I do, I, I have subscribed to that idea.
And it's just, it's uncomfortable for me at times.

(01:30:59):
And it just, it, it takes away from the interactions that I
have every day that makes it seem like I'm an Ant, which in
the grand scheme of the things, I am an Ant.
But then the, I am just a cog inthe machine, right.
And I really hope that all the cogs are healthy and so the
machine can keep on spreading happiness and positivity.

(01:31:24):
Yeah. OK.
And Kate, let's just say I'm religious, I believe in heaven,
I believe in Jesus. Let's just say nothing happens
after, right? Like, let's say the atheists
were right and boom, it's just all black.
Yeah. I think the good that comes out

(01:31:46):
of Christianity is that the values, if you do follow it,
like I know there's a lot of people that abuse power, right
is not positive. Yeah, sure.
Yeah, I, I, I think, yeah, I mean, there are Christians that
are good people and absolutely Idon't think you need to be a
Christian to be a good person, though.
Yeah, no, you don't. But it certainly does help.

(01:32:07):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
I can give you some kind of framework for sure.
Yeah. I don't know.
I don't know. It is a hot take.
I don't think I'd want to go to heaven, really.
Yeah. You don't want to go to heaven.
No, I, I, I'm not. I'm not rage baiting.
I swear. I swear.
And I don't mean that in like a a blasphemy like kind of way.

(01:32:30):
Like I where do you want to go then?
I I'm I'm cool with the with theblack, you know, Yeah, I've
never heard that before. Well, I'm just, I'm being open
and honest. I love it.
That did That's that's great. Thank you.
Thanks for being honest. So like, I don't know, like
again, I don't, I'm not saying Ihave the answers, but it's like,

(01:32:51):
I don't think it's that bad. You know, if there's if there's
nothing. Just like nothingness you're OK
with. Just like what's like.
Before you're born? No.
Do you remember? Before you're born?
Nothing. There you go.
I guess maybe I like made the womb.
I was chilling. Well, I don't remember that, but
if you do, that's awesome. You know, we could talk about
that too, right? But I don't know, like I, I

(01:33:14):
don't know. I think for me it's, it gives
and I'm open to, to changing my thoughts, but I, I feel like it
gives extra importance to the interactions that you have,
right? Know that the finality of it,
the finiteness of, of life and everything it, it places extra

(01:33:35):
importance on that, you know, and I don't know, I think the
thought of living forever, I just, it's like forever, really.
Like just, it never ends, You know, it, it just, I just
doesn't sound good. And you know, also knowing, you
know, that if hypothetically I were to go to heaven, you know,

(01:33:58):
and my dog wasn't there or, you know, my friend wasn't there or
whatever, right? Because we can't all get in,
right. But I, I wouldn't like that, you
know what I mean? And.
I'm sure there's some legislation.
Yeah, I'm sure there's a, I'm sure there's a loophole there,
but you know, I don't, I, I feellike, and if I was OK with that,

(01:34:21):
you know, being in heaven with like, you know, half of my
family or some people that I care about not being there, I
don't, I either I wouldn't want that or I wouldn't want to be OK
with wanting that. You know what I mean?
I don't know. I'm sure I'd could probably just
ask God like, hey man, can you give this guy a pass?
Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be that. It could be God's defense

(01:34:44):
attorney or whatever. Yeah, Yeah, I did.
I, I can see where you're comingfrom.
Where? Yeah, it's just not everyone's
there. So would it really be heaven
without all the people that you love?
You know, because, as you said, not everybody gets there.
But the way I see it, as we're all being tested on earth, like,

(01:35:08):
I think there's so much temptation everywhere.
And oh, you could argue that. Oh, the the parents, your
parents were just a predictor for we were going to be and like
the people you've met and like how, how would you have known
right, what to do based on all the choices you've made
previously and the like? Do you believe in free will?

(01:35:33):
Yeah, I'll go with that. I think so.
OK. Because I thought you were going
to lean on to like a Sam Harris,you know, Robert Sapolsky, like
they, they believed that, OK, ever since you were born, right?
You were born to the two parentswhere you had no choice.
They were born to the two parents that had no choice.

(01:35:54):
And every single interaction they've done was a result of
everything coming together. And you may think it's conscious
awareness, but it's really not. It's just something that you've,
that you acquired, whether that's like a, an idea or this.
And yes, you make choices, but you made those choices based on

(01:36:14):
the things that have happened before.
So their argument for that is you don't actually, you don't
have free will. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 'cause like,
but when I first heard that argument, it like, like, it
drove me insane. Like I, I couldn't stomach it.
Like I couldn't the influence like, 'cause I'm like, wait, so
what's the point of like me being here?

(01:36:37):
And why did I just say that word?
And why did I even wake up? You know?
And it's just, it's a dude. If that framework helps you,
great. But for me, that's, yeah, it,
it, it, it would kill me if I'd actually subscribe to that.
And I believed in it. And so like it's really beliefs
definitely are one thing that weall need to be wary of because

(01:36:59):
1-1 your belief like you seem like a chilled out guy and I see
you at the gym, you're going hamand congratulations and 60 lbs
and you're doing you're doing great for yourself.
You want to be a lawyer one day.You're pursuing your passions
and your mental framework. It's sound, it seems robust, but
another person could have that same mentality.

(01:37:19):
And it's not. You could.
Drive them nuts, you know, Or same way for me, I'm Christian.
I'd love to take workout as well.
And I like I believe that oh, heaven exists, God exists, Jesus
died for our sins and I like that.
I want to go to church more and but the same ideas that I have
could make someone go crazy, youknow?

(01:37:40):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. It's not a one-size-fits-all
approach. Yeah, yeah.
But like, there's so many peopleout there that go, this is it.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean it's yeah.
I mean, with with any kind of belief system or ideology, it's
it can be kind of used as a blanket statement to not think,
right, Say this is the way the world is, this is the way the
world operates. But instead of just saying,

(01:38:01):
well, how does it actually operate?
What do I think? You know, So it can be a
framework. But yeah, think for yourself
too. Yeah, dude, that was that was
really engaging, man. Thank you.
Like that got me. That got me thinking worries,
man. But dude, I've, I've really
never met anyone that says that maybe I don't want to go to
heaven. I've never met friends, a lot of

(01:38:22):
friends. I think that way too.
I've never really asked him. I'm like, hey man, what you want
to? What do you think of the
afterlife? Like what do you do you have a
conception of that? I've never really asked him, but
I should ask them. You should then.
I mean, it's initially like, I remember like 20 at 20 years

(01:38:42):
old. I remember being like, holy
shit, I'm 20. Like I'm, I'm, I'm getting
older, you know what I mean? Now 20s, not that old.
I'm 22 now. But it's like, you know,
thinking like you're mortal, right?
Like just having those first the, you know, your frontal
cortex is starting to form here,you know what I mean?
And I remember being like almostthis kind of like just annoyed

(01:39:08):
almost and kind of pissed off being like, shit, I have to die.
Like this is something I have todo.
I can't avoid this. There's no getting around this.
I have to do this. There's nothing.
Why can't I just not die? Yeah, exactly.
And I remember being really bummed about that.
But you know what? You got your whole life to get
acquainted with that fact that you're going to die, right.

(01:39:29):
And you know, I think it's it's human to fear that.
And you know what? I guess you just kind of get
used to the idea and it's like, well, if that's what it is,
that's what it is. I can't change it.
You know, Stoicism again, but I don't know.
I also think the idea of, I mean, this is actually like

(01:39:53):
terrifying in in a lot of ways, but it's also kind of
motivating. You heard of Nietzsche, like the
philosopher Nietzsche, he's got the the eternal recurrence.
You heard of that idea? But does it sound like the name
itself? I've thought about it.
What? What?
Like you spawn like kind of likereincarnation.

(01:40:14):
It's, it's kind of like reincarnation, but it's like you
live your whole life, right? And then you, you die or
whatever, and then you come backas the same person and you live
your life in the same sequences every single day forever for
eternity, right? And then you think, how does
that make you feel, right? And then you kind of live your

(01:40:37):
life according to that idea, like, you know.
Like Sisyphus. Kind of, yeah.
I mean, it's almost, Yeah, you're pushing the boulder.
Yeah. But it's like, you know, it's in
a reductive way to kind of explain it, but it's like your
life is a movie, so live it likea movie.
So you'd want to rewatch it overand over again, right?

(01:41:00):
I'd do it. I'd want to do that.
That sounds like sounds cool to me.
I think all of my experiences, all the fucked up shit that I've
done and all the great things that I've experienced.
I love it. You know, it's made me who I am
and I if I could live it again, maybe it'd be great if there's
like a little iteration, you know, maybe I could make a

(01:41:22):
choice here and there to kind ofgo in a different direction.
But if I. Get a little old out of the
third time, but yeah, yeah. But if I didn't have any
recollection though, you know, then accept it, I think.
And then this is just reality. I think the more we bend reality
to to a shape where it's not, the more we try to subscribe to

(01:41:44):
a fake reality, the more we drive ourselves insane.
I think when you just stick to areality of this, is it like, I
need to work out? That's how you stay, stay
healthy. I need to go to school.
You make money this instead of going, oh, what if I die?
This. I do this.
And like, yes, there's like transcendent belief and you need

(01:42:07):
to be able to think about these deeper things.
But life's not that bad, you know what I mean?
Like the end of the day, we like, we overthink.
Yeah. But like, these ideas, man,
they're like kind of candy for me too.
Like, you know, like I love. Thinking about it.
Yeah, but like to apply it into my life.
Yeah, it's and it's, it's a different thing.

(01:42:28):
Yeah, well then you have a titlefor the podcast.
Tom doesn't want to go to heaven.
Can I title it like that? Yeah, do it, dude.
Dude. My friends will get a kick at.
It I don't want to go to heaven.Yeah, and I'll put that in the
title. Oh do it.
I swear that'd be so cool. All your buddies will be.
Be tuning in. Hey they're they can listen to

(01:42:49):
an hour and 45 Do it. Yeah, yeah, do it.
Yeah, dude, this is an awesome man.
This has been a great experience.
I I think you're a phenomenal person and I think you will go
for in life and yeah, I'd I'd like to have you on again in the
future. Like yeah, no script or
anything. We just do this freestyle,

(01:43:10):
freestyle. But the way it after I ended the
last question. Started going off no.
No, no, like, I don't know what it was.
I think it was actually a lot more entertaining than, you
know, Yeah, 'cause like it was just, I don't know, man.
Like you, like, you're interesting, bro.
Thank you. But I'm not just Tooting your
horn, man. And I've talked to over 140

(01:43:30):
guests and I don't know, man. Some, some guests don't want to
get like guess this, the long term podcast is really deep, but
like nobody wants to ask like the deep deep, like
uncomfortable. Like, it's like, I think it's
even people would much rather talk about politics than like
the deeper stuff, you know? Yeah, that's true.
Yeah. It's just uncomfortable.

(01:43:51):
Like these ideas that we've beensharing, it's uncomfortable for
people. It's like what I have to think
about death, I have to think about after my life.
Yeah. And it's like a lot of people
listening right now. It's gonna, they're gonna, a lot
of them is gonna experience a lot of cognitive dissonance.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's true, which is uncomfortable, which is what we
try to avoid. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I'd love to come back.

(01:44:12):
Thanks for having me, man. It's.
Awesome. Yeah.
Any last words to the audience? I know I asked you that.
Question. You started talking about death
Three. Yeah, you.
I mean, just my shirt. It should have not.
No. Just got a ball, man.
Yeah, it could always get worse.It can always get worse.
Just keep shooting. So and as always, to everyone

(01:44:34):
listening or watching, there is a place for you in this chaotic
world. Never lose hope, strengthen your
faith and keep a long term. Tom Rhodes, everyone, thank you.
Peace. All right, man, that was
awesome. Thank you for that.

(01:44:55):
Oh yeah. And then I just need.

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#143 - Tom Rhodes - How He Lost 60 Pounds Without Starving

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#143 - Tom Rhodes - How He Lost 60 Pounds Without Starving