HEATHER FINK: COMEDIAN/FILMMAKER/CAREGIVER - Surviving Quicksand - Love Conquers Alz

Episode Transcript
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Don Priess (00:00):
When the world has gotcha down, and Alzheimer's

(00:04):
sucks. It's an equal opportunitydisease that chips away at
everything we hold dear. And todate, there's no cure. So until
there is we continue to fightwith the most powerful tool in
our arsenal. Love. This is loveconquers all is a real and
really positive podcast thattakes a deep dive into

(00:24):
everything. Alzheimer's, TheGood, the Bad, and everything in
between. And now, here are yourhosts Susie singer, Carter, and
me, Don Priess

Susie Singer Carter (00:39):
Hello, everybody. I'm Susie singer
Carter.

Don Priess (00:42):
And I'm Don Priess.
And this is love conquers allcalls. Hello, Susan.

Hello, Donald. Summer.

Don Priess (00:51):
Oh, yes. We've been show.

I've been watching show Shogun after
everything. Yeah. On some kindof dogs that now. Yeah, they
don't like that gives it someAlfie summer. Alfie summer, I'm
gonna be the Shogun of my house.

Don Priess (01:10):
It's, it's such a neat, I don't know if anyone's
seen it out there. And I'm surea lot of people have but just,
you know, to have to read almostthe entire show. It's, it's a
challenge. Because you can't goand you can't be on your phone
while you're watching. There's alot of

there's a lot of cutting. There's a lot of
me doing this. That there's alot of that. Yeah, you can't.
It's really It's it. I don'tknow what's compelling. It
compelled me to finish it. Butyeah. It's a good story. It is a
good story. Yeah. So thank youall for coming and listening to

(01:48):
us. Because we know you haveother lot of other podcasts to
listen to. But you know, we'rehappy that you're here. And, you
know, we're happy that wecontinue to get amazing guests
and people that are interesting,and you know, have different
ways of looking at the subjectmatter that we talked about
every week. And just a quickupdate on no country, for old

(02:11):
people, we're we have justpretty much locked our picture.
And we are very, very tired, andvery proud of ourselves. And,
you know, who knew that you haveto do all this legal stuff for
documentaries? You know? No, no,it is brutal. We had to go

(02:32):
through every single frame ofthis three hour project and get
clearance from what's called afair use lawyer. So so that we
don't get sued later on, andthat the distribution doesn't
get sued. And so we've done ourdue diligence, and also it's
very expensive. So we're stillraising money, folks, if you

(02:54):
want to get a tax deduction.
Bring it on, bring it on.
Because various lawyers are verypricey. Yeah, very pricey. Oh,

Don Priess (03:06):
it too. Looks like Oh, I get to write you an email
that will be $700 Yeah,

I'm not even kidding you. But, you know,
but

Don Priess (03:15):
they're really good.
We there are terrific, so worthevery penny I say

worth every penny if they're if they ever
listened to this. We're hopingfor a thumbs up this time.
Because yeah, because it's justgetting too expensive. So anywho
that's, that's what we're doingright now. And we're also
beginning to to create what'scalled the Impact campaign. So
this is because as you know,this is not just a movie, it's a

(03:41):
movement. And we want to createa collective conscious shift in
the way we think about our thirdact of life and and, you know,
the long term care industrywhich is exactly what it is an
industry that needs to shiftvery, you know, very quickly can

(04:02):
because many, many people aresuffering now as we speak as and
we are all in this it's it's notjust other people's problems,
it's really all have our so it'ssuper important and we still
appreciate everyone's support.
And if there's anybody out therethat is an expert in creating a
you know, a metoo movement kindof situation. You know,

(04:26):
political activism, we're all inplease contact us because we
make movies, we don't know howto make movements, but we're
gonna, we're there for you.
We've got this great tool toeducate the public and it will
so help us get it out there andhelp us you know, make changes
that are dire. Okay, I'm off mysoapbox. Let's talk about Well

(04:50):
done. Well.

Don Priess (04:55):
We'll move on to Yeah, we have a

great guest who came to us like through via
You know, we weren't evensearching this and it just came
to us like a gift.

Don Priess (05:04):
It's a miracle.
Yeah. Shall I tell you all abouther? Yes. Okay. Heather Finn
came to filmmaking from comedy.
She has been making funny videossince she was a kid growing up
in small town, New Jersey. NewJersey, yeah, Jersey. I know.

(05:25):
You're gonna like her even morenow. Girl, I love it. After
earning a philosophy degree fromGeorgetown University, she has
gone on to direct over 35 comedyshorts. Heather has been
featured on MTV, Dr. Phil TVGuide magazine and the
Washington Post just to name afew. And now her real life story

(05:45):
has led to a groundbreaking onewoman show quicksand that
chronicles her dad's paralyzingstroke, and the struggles to
pull herself up from sinking. AsHeather says from caregiving to
death and the midlife crisis.
Quicksand is a storytelling andcloud exploration of the realest
shit we face. And we are veryexcited to hear more about this

(06:05):
heartfelt project and everythingin the world of the one, the
only Heather Fink Hello,Heather.

Heather Fink (06:14):
Thank you so much for having me. And PS, I went to
George Washington, not GeorgeTown, although that would have
been nice. Oh, did

Don Priess (06:21):
I say Georgetown?

Well, you know, there are two George's that are
both in DC. Yeah, they're quitecompetitive, although the one is
Ivy and the one is not. So you

went to was clearly better.

Don Priess (06:35):
It's got 100% More Washington than then Georgetown.

So you're absolutely right way America,
Washington. Yes. It's such apleasure to be honest with you.
I clearly you're the film you'remaking. Can you tell me the
title again,

No Country for Old people, No Country

for Old people. I mean, it's beautiful. And the
show that I'm making to dadshave a long term purpose, not
just, you know, making a lot ofdifferent parties feel less
invisible for making caregivingless invisible to make eldercare
less invisible, to having femalebreadwinners be less invisible.
All these different things Iwant to give visibility to. And

(07:15):
so I'm quite passionate aboutwhat you're saying. And I love
for this to lead to the abilityto change caregiving in the
world.

Let's do it. Yeah. I swear, you know, it
really comes from storytelling.
And it really comes, you know, Ifeel like we the power that we
have as filmmakers and writersand directors that we can, you
know, fashion a story to touchhearts. And that will resonate.
Right. So it's, and I keeptelling people that, you know,
this problem in long term carehas been around for decades for

(07:46):
five decades to be exact. And,you know, and it's not like,
it's not been talked about, youknow, it's been, you know, it's
frontline and CNN and you know,and John Oliver, and now all
everybody's talking talked aboutit, but it doesn't resonate when
it's just facts. So when youtell a story, like what you're

(08:07):
doing with your with quicksandis, that's what that's when you
reach people is when you touchtheir hearts, when it resonates,
you know, it's it's and, youknow, comedy. But so? And can I
just preface before you get intobecause I can't wait to hear all
about it. Is that this? Youknow, just wanted to clarify
that, yes, your dad had astroke, and it wasn't

(08:30):
Alzheimer's. But in the longterm care world, you know, there
is so much ableism and ableismis directed at people with
dementia, people withParkinson's and people who have
had strokes, because often, allthree of those lose their
ability to communicate. And whenyou don't have a voice, that's

(08:50):
when you are so vulnerable. Andthat's why we were having
Heather on because I want totalk about that, and how that
she navigated that with herfather, because I had that issue
with my mom. And and I think itis, you know, that is the
universal issues that theableism ageism, and then the the
vulnerability of not having avoice so,

yeah, tell

us about you. I mean, you're very great.
And obviously, you've done somuch. And that's a whole nother
podcast, I'd love to talk aboutwhat you've done as a filmmaker
and a creator. But tell me abouthow quick Sam came about.

Well, you know, I am now 42 years old, and I have
been trying to make it and we'vegotten very, very close to a big
break, like so close where I hadinvestors in a film and then it
fell through or I was hired todirect these two, you know,
major TV shows, and then therewas a merger and those shows got
canceled. So I'm getting very,very close. And I've written

(09:51):
maybe six different featurescripts. I've made one that
didn't really have it. Thatwasn't my big break either. And
so I've been struggling to tellmy story for so long. And I
wrote a feature film based onthe things that my family went
through. I always even though Ispecialize in comedy, because
that's my favorite instinct. andI are, that's my strongest

(10:13):
thing, instinct, my comedyinstinct. But I always want to
make things that give like aspoonful of sugar with the
medicine. So I always want todeliver a message or something
that I care about in everysingle story, I tell. So that's
there for everything. But I'vestruggled for so long to try to
figure out how to tell the storyof what my family went through.

(10:36):
And my first feature script Iwrote about it, I think, is the
worst script ever wrote, becauseit lacked objectivity. And so
I've been for that, I wrote thatin 2019. And I've been trying to
figure out how to tell it. So Istarted developing it for
television. And then I know thatthese things take forever to get
made, if at all, and I justsaid, My dad passed in June. So

(10:59):
it'll be about a year. And I waslike, I just need to get this
out. And so that's why I starteddoing a solo show. And one big
part of the show that speaks towhat you mentioned, about not
being able to speak. And it'ssomething that's depicted in the
show that I tried to figure outthrough the television version

(11:19):
and the stage version, which isthat one of the deepest
struggles I've had in my dad'slife, after the stroke, and
during his death, was that hecouldn't talk and there would be
no last words, you know, and I,I've been seeking those I can

(11:40):
connect to and identify with onthis. And I was like listening
to Anderson Cooper's griefpodcast, which is fantastic. And
I recommend, and I'd beenparticipating in death pathways,
which if you don't know aboutthem, I also really recommend
this, but I could connect, itwas very rare that anyone could
speak to that feeling, thatdesire, that feeling of being

(12:01):
like robbed of last words, andall of that, because it happened
in 2010. He was for 13 yearslike that. And yeah, I'll stop
if I'll keep going. If you runfor I thought, you're gonna say
something?

Oh, no.

Okay, so it's called quick sound. Because
organically I felt during thistime that I kept thinking, and I
kept trying to do something topull myself up from it. But life
and the situation and constantemergencies kept sort of pulling
me down. And it's my desire totry to climb back out of that.
And I thought for the televisionversion, that there could be the

(12:41):
surrealist space where, forexample, my character could
communicate with some version ofher dad and have conversations
with her dad, maybe it's like apuppet or a claymation version
or something like that. So thatis actually part of the show, I
have made a puppet version of myfather. And I do kind of play
with that. There's some surrealstuff, like there's a

(13:02):
storytelling sandwich in theshow. And in the middle, I do
some interesting theatricalthemes with caregiving and, and
weight, and my puppet. So thathappens, but for the TV version,
I just want there to be somesort of surrealist space to work
through the emotional part ofthe story and make it something

(13:23):
like the thing with film in ourheart rate is you want to create
an emotional response. You wantto get to people who maybe maybe
have gone through this or evenhave it to try to help them
understand what it feels like.
So that's kind of how I'm usinglike this quick sound surrealist
space. And for the TV version, Iliken it a bit to Ally McBeal,
how she would like visualize allthese, like dancing baby and

(13:46):
things. So it's not exactly yourdream states, but it's more the
character can interact withthings about how they're feeling
inside. So yeah, that's what Ilike to do.

It's great.
It's like it's a great device toto work through a really hard
situation. Right. So I think,yeah, I think that's really
powerful. Because it is hard,because when you're thrown into
a situation like that, like mymom was communicating and then
due to what happened in 2022,you know, she ran to hospital

(14:20):
got intubated, and then you knowanybody even if you don't have
Alzheimer's, you know, yourability to speak after being
intubated is is impaired youneed you know, therapy to get
back get back to to my mom beganto lose her ability to speak and
I wasn't prepared for thateither. And but we were so close
that I, I had such a nonverbalcommunication with her, you

(14:44):
know, I you know, I spent everytime I was there I was I would
do the dog and pony show theSuzy. I'm your daughter, dog and
pony show, to keep, you know, toget in to open the doors. And we
communicated as I'm sure you andyour Dad, have you figured out a
way? Right? Yeah. And Iliterally could make her laugh.

(15:05):
I could make her swoon, I couldmake her throw kisses to me.
Because she and I would see herlook for words like she'd look
up and I go, I know you'relooking for the word. You're
trying to get it. And I go, I'mhere. I got time. Wait, wait,
wait, you know. And, you know,there was one moment, and I'll

(15:26):
say this, because I gave I hadpatience. And halfway through
before, you know, it was like,six months at this chapter, when
she went into the hospital andthen died. About three months
into it, she just looked at mewith clarity and just went I
love you like that, like fullyarticulated, like she was she

(15:46):
ran a marathon to get thosewords out. And never again, they
didn't come out again. But itwas again, but you know, and I
feel your pain, because I had togo through walking her out the
door without hearing how shefelt about it.

Right. Yeah, I mean, it really is a deeply hard
thing. And I know that there'sother people out there going
through, which I think is whyyou make a podcast, like I'm
making the show, you're makingthe movie, we do these things to
try to connect. So that I mean,the feeling is that you want to
make something because for allthe suffering or tragedy, you
want it to have been worthsomething, you know, you want to

(16:27):
do something with it. So and youknow, like I said, there isn't
there wasn't Alzheimer's in myfamily. But aside from my dad's
stroke, also my grandmother, andmy dad's older brother was
schizophrenic. And so and theyhave well, my grandmother lived
with us when I was a teenager.
And so I've had a lot of peoplewho aren't all that they're
present in their mind. And youtalk about those moments of

(16:49):
clarity. And I can remember,like, very rare few moments
where you could actually connectand how intense and how you'll
always remember those momentsfor the rest of your life. And
so my dad, I think, you know, hehad a decent amount of
comprehension, although he had ahyper emotive state where he
would either laugh or cry moreeasily. Like, for example, you

(17:09):
know, we tried so hard to stillbring him stuff. So you could
have, we could all have a goodlife. And we took him to the
ballet at Lincoln Center. And hewas, he laughed, you laughed at
her ballet dancers. And then helaughed at how inappropriate it
was to laugh. So he laughed sohard, we had to like pull him
out of the valley. Which is, Ithink, to me, like any like real

(17:31):
good ballet, very ridiculous. Sowe had to pull him out those,
but those kinds of kinds ofthings happen. And then more
recently, you know, somethinghappened with my mom or my mom
has always been like, sharpestline, she was nicknamed the
Bulldog at work. And she wasrecently, really in a really bad

(17:53):
way, a victim of romancescammers who came, like they
target widows, it's really bad.
And even then I felt for thefirst time in my life, like my
mom wasn't with it mentally,like just trying to get through
to her. And this is somethingI've been dealing with this past
few months. And it's been fairlydevastating. But that thing
where your loved one, there'slike something where you're not

(18:16):
connecting, it hurts, it'sreally

hard. Very hard. It's a big loss. It's it's
it is little, they're littledeaths along the way, you know,
we have to come to come to termswith you know, and so you grieve
them as quickly as possible. Andthen you go to the next new
normal, the next new normal.

Yes, yes, it's that next new normal? What's
that accepting with? Forexample, you know, you almost I
know some people, of course,have both parents will be sick
at the same time. And I don'tknow, I guess I was naive to
think I could reallycompartmentalize it, okay, when
dad passes, we can focus on mom,and she can be free from being
intense caregiver again, and doall these nice things. And then
I realized, Oh, my God, she's sovulnerable and needs help. And I

(19:03):
need to think about, you know,maybe I need to move back. My
mom's in New Jersey, and maybe Ineed to move back. Maybe we'll
live in New York City areatogether, somebody like making a
plan in that way, you know, allthat stuff that I'm
recalibrating, once again, youknow, it's that recalibration,
it's that feeling of thatsinking in quicksand, but if I

(19:23):
can be prepared for it, althoughusually can't really prepare for
these things. No,

you can just prepare for being
unprepared. Is that right? Soyou just know that things are
going to happen that you're notgoing to expect and like how can
you you know, be resilient to itand you know, and also
acknowledge your own your ownjourney, which is difficult. So

(19:49):
you you know, that's I think forme like being always wanting to
be strong for my mom, and andcoming in with the best face my
dog and pony show and notwanting to make her feel like
she's making me feel sad,because I know she wouldn't like
that. So I would try to alwaysbe stoic, but you have to honor
your own, you know, journeythrough it. Which, you know, in

(20:13):
part of, I think what you'redoing, you know, like, like,
even like, I wouldn't say thatthis film, I wouldn't do my film
as a way to, to come to, togrips with my mother's, you
know, this, the last chapter ofher life, that it's too much
work and too hard. But on theother hand, you know, it's

(20:36):
really for a bigger purpose. Butit does help you put it into
perspective, and to look at itwith, you know, a more objective
eye, if you can't, you know, itas objective as we can be with
it. Right. But I think that itdoes it. It certainly doesn't, I
don't think make it worse. Ithink if anything, it helps you,

(20:57):
you know, process.

Absolutely, in every step of writing, this show
has been harder than anythingI've ever done before. Because
even if I've written things thatwere inspired by my life or
reality, it was never about mylife. And so you have this, like
pressure to honor that you youhave the same thing like to
honor this huge subject you careso much about and your your

(21:22):
actual family member, you know,that's a lot of pressure, you're
like, Oh, my God, how do I howdo I even put something like
this into words? How do I takethe stories I've told over and
over again about my life toother people in conversation,
and actually serve it up? How doI summarize? You know, it, to
maintain

Don Priess (21:42):
their their dignity?
You know, because you're talkingabout things that maybe, you
know, hard when you're talkingabout, you know, your loved one
and how they would feel if they,you know, I mean, obviously, he
still had his mental capacity.
So, you waited till it was allyou wouldn't started writing
during this did how'd you ormaybe you did, I don't, I

did, because I always had this desire to, like
they were so there's such a deeploneliness in suffering through
anything by yourself that youfeel people can't relate to. So
I always had a desire to depict,I wanted people to understand
better, I wanted them tounderstand better what it's
like, to really live with awheelchair, like wouldn't be

(22:26):
getting the caregiving like,look what the dressing was,
like, what a stroke actually is,because we didn't know how to
spot one. And if I can tell youraudience real quick how to spot
a stroke FASD T, fast Facedrooping arm weakness, speech,
difficulty time to call 911Immediately, the only thing you
can do is get to the hospital tosnap a stroke immediately. My

(22:47):
mom didn't know he was having astroke, because she thought it
was a heart attack. She tried togive him an aspirin, that kind
of thing. So we didn't even knowthat that was a direct. I know
that maybe other people knowthis, but high blood pressure
stroke. So watch out for that.
And also for me that he washealthy, very healthy. And other
Aside from this, and it was hissleep apnea that caused his high

(23:08):
blood pressure. So snoring canlead to a stroke and people
should know, they should knowbecause this is devastating.
What happened. Yeah,

Don Priess (23:18):
I it's something I have. And yeah, it's I've heard
you know, you hear it, you hearit, but yeah, you'd never think
oh, yeah, but that's not welljust monitor your blood
pressure. Just monitor and I doand I do. Yeah. And it's under
control right now. So that'syour
information. It's not like ifyou snore, you're gonna have a

(23:41):
stroke. It's more watch out foryour blood pressure. If

I think if you snore, other people are
gonna have a stroke, becauseyou're

Don Priess (23:49):
exactly keeping them from because they won't sleep.

Yeah, and that was it. I mean, my dad is so crazy,
but so that had been I mean, youknow, it is one of those things
where it's like, he knew righthe drank in moderation, smoke he
was he did exercise and stuffand it's still you know, he got
it got really bad so that andthen we're stressing the fact
that he was all this other stuffgoing on, but either way that

(24:15):
was to me and you talked aboutlittle duck like that happened
when I was 29 years old 2010 Andthat was actually for me harder
to deal with his stroke than hispassing because I guess it was
like the introduction to intenseloss you know, the loss of his

(24:37):
physical identity the way thathe's role as father with his
physical mobility but more thanthat physical mobility it really
was him not being able to talkanymore. I you know, it's funny
the things you think about likeI realized there's this like two
levels of missing likeyesterday, I just saw this image
of really gorgeous chocolatechip cookies, and I missed To my

(25:00):
dad's chocolate chip cookies,but those are from before, like,
that's from when they're, youknow, 14 years ago that he could
last make his chocolate chipcookies. So this is an old
nothing, it's not the data hadlater it was making these and
it's strange how the death hasmade me reconcile with the old
version of the way dad and withthe other, like, there's these

(25:23):
two versions and I get it.

I talk about because I became mommy
towards the end. And and Ireally, like I vote my mom was
always my, my best friend and Iloved her and admired her and
just had a ball with her. And,but in that last stages, like,
it was like she was my daughterand I fell in love with her like

(25:49):
a mother would to a childbecause I am a mother. And and I
miss, like I missed fiercelywhat you're talking about in the
beginning because it was a 16year you know, journey with
Alzheimer's. I did have thosedeaths and missed all those
things. But once I you know,transitioned into mommy with my

(26:09):
mom, I miss that mommy, I missedthat one that I took care of the
most. And and because it wassuch a pure, she was so pure and
so vulnerable. And like doingthe documentary and looking at
her face that that we have toedit all the time. And I always
tell dawn I missed that face.
You know, and and that's not herface. It's not the face that I

(26:35):
grew up with. It's the face thatI helped shepherd and yeah,

you just made me think of this feeling I had you
know, I'm sure you've had manytimes you had to go to the
hospital over and over again.
And you just remind me thisfeeling was of going to the
hospital and like looking for mydad's room because it was like a
new thing so I didn't know wherehis room was and like you know
when you like scan through allthe rooms and all the beds and
all the faces that you don'tknow and then you like land on
when it's your first than thoseeyes like that that moment in

(27:08):
the hospital where you're likelooking at all this seems
strange faces and you likerandom more person? They're not
strange and there's likesomething about that. That
feeling? I don't know. Yeah, butface and what they are like, I
mean, my dad, that's all theyhad. You can do. Yes. No. Okay.
Mostly everything was was saidwith the word. Okay. And we did

(27:29):
the guessing game the dog andpony show you mentioned like,
the guessing game was just sucha big part of our life. But he
made jokes. I mean, my favoritejoke used to make because he
would like hide behind an objectthat was obviously too small
like hide behind the coffee muglike it was so cute. He was
using what he had you know, hewas using right could do and he

(27:50):
would make jokes and sometimesyou know, I remember the first
father's day after the strokelike how much I resented it like
I was so like upset because I itwas too much like the instant
movement from my big strong dadto this like someone who was

(28:12):
cute. Or in Bihar, like thisidea of like old person is cute.
It was something that was solike, I wasn't ready for it. I
didn't like it. I didn't likepeople talking to my dad or
looking at my dad or, orthinking about our parents like
cute people. It's like adismissive kind of thing that. I
mean, it bugs me about oldpeople and older people in

(28:35):
general how, you know, peopleact like they're just these
adorable or fragile or feeblethings. It's like, you don't
know how badass this personmight have been? Like, you don't
know what, like Miss Harrisoncould have been an actual
gangster like you have no idea.

I think about that all the time. I used
to I used to my mom was anamazing singer. And I had all of
her tracks and she had a she hada deal at Capitol Records side
all these songs from the 60sthat she did and when she
recorded there and I would playthem because people would just
do that like to humanize her andshe became just a great lump,

(29:14):
right? And so I would play themusic every time I was there and
people would walk by and go, whois that? Singing? I go that's
her the lady in bed. That onethat amazing woman because
people forget and and just justto backtrack on how I felt about
my mom towards the end. As mychild it's not infantilizing her

(29:38):
it was more about knowing thestage that she was at and giving
her grace to be at that stageand it's okay, and that I was
there for her. And then I wantedto give her dignity, but I had
to respect the stage that shewas at physically, cognitively
and spiritually. Right. So Andthen and, and that is a hard

(30:02):
thing to do, because we don'twant to, you know, my mom was
fierce, and was independent and,you know, just a force of
nature. And so to see her Istill saw that in her no one
else would have, but I saw it.
But you know, but I also had toallow her the respect to to let
her be where she was. And eventhough I missed that other mom

(30:25):
fiercely Yeah, absolutely, very,it's very, it's very
complicated.

I completely understand that feeling. Like,
interestingly, I guess, maybebecause it was my dad that had
stroke, I felt this immediatething, and my family tried to
buck up and be the dad, but Ihad to just take, I just tried
to take care of stuff and showup in that way. I mean, it
really like very literal ways,like my dad loved garden

(30:54):
gardening. And when my dad wasin the acute rehab center after
the stroke, I went home, and Iwent, like out of this huge
garden in New Jersey, and I likewent up sort of like, Alright,
I'm gonna do this thing. Noidea, like, looked at it. And I
was like, Okay, I have no idea.
I don't know what any of thosethings were popping about a gun,
like, I'm just gonna try to fakesomething else. But I do think
that my mom and my sister havesort of said as much that about

(31:20):
the role that I've taken. Wethat, you know, we're you
parental fi, I guess is anotherterm I've heard, where I'm kind
of like, okay, how can I stepin? Now? How can I take care of
business and sort things out?
And that part of it I couldhandle where I'm like, okay,
what can I do to help thesituation, I can handle that the

(31:42):
harder part is more recently,with my mom being ruined
scammed, and us not being ableto get through to her. Which we
have finally gotten through toher, which is great, but just
the thought of, I didn't likesigning Power of Attorney for my
dad, but we needed to I didn'tlike that we had to do that,
that mentally thinking like,they acknowledge that, you know,

(32:03):
paper acknowledgement ofdiminished capacity. But then we
explored that for a minimum. Andthat was to me, like, that's a
bridge too far. Like, yeah, Ido. Like, she's definitely like
with it on so many levels. she'snot, she's not a little old
lady. Like, I just hate that.
She's vulnerable. She's not herfull self that she was. But she
is with it in so many ways. Andshe just needs to grieve not

(32:28):
just the loss of laid out. Butshe really, you know, this
happened when she was 60 yearsold. And she was working in New
York City as this, like veryactive business woman and and
loved her life. She lovedworking and being a part of New
York City and all that goes withit, and to grieve that sudden
loss becoming a full timecaregiver. And so she needs to

(32:52):
reconcile and work through allthat stuff. And I really think
she has hoped to get herselfback because she doesn't have an
actual condition other thanbeing like a truck read over her
heart.

Don Priess (33:08):
You know, real thing. I mean, it is.

I mean, it's, there's nothing more
devastating. I mean, this is awhole life is like, shifted in,
in a in a flat one second, youknow, it's like, I lost my dad
when I was 16. And he died in aplane crash. And it was, like I
say, you know, like, I've hadexperiences of both. So I had my
mom who was took 16 years toexit. And my father who was

(33:33):
ripped out of life, I that's howit feels like he was at the top
of his career in the musicindustry, and flying a plane
back from Mexico City, and hecrashed, and he died. Just like
that. And, and, you know, sothere's, there's all different
kinds of losses. And, you know,for your mom, like the lifestyle

(33:55):
is, so it's, it's huge. I mean,that is a death. So all those
deaths that happen, right, soyour lifestyle, your, your, your
perspective, your perception ofyourself, and how you fit into
this world, as as a wife, so nowshe's not a wife anymore. All of

(34:17):
those things, and then now she's13 years old or older. Right?
And, you know, I know like, I'mhitting a stage where I'm going,
wow. So I have I, you know,Flink in your 90 And it's like,
whoa, so, you know, 13 years isa long time. And now your mom
needs to reconcile that and howdoes she you know, she's not

(34:40):
going to get those 13 yearsback. So how does she make the
best of what is coming? Rightknowing that that is not either,
you know, we all are by thegrace of God. So I get it where
your mom is going through. It'sa tremendous amount of, you
know, loss and andresponsibility to herself to to

(35:04):
get to figure out how to getback on track if it's possible,
if possible. I

think it is possible. We just got her knees
replaced because her knees wereworn out by caregiving. And then
I messed up my knee, I mean,then helping her. I mean, it was
a combination of that. And myknees were already worn from
working on set, because it'sphysically brutal. But there's
like this cycle of, you know,there was I just so thankful
though, that my mom survivedthis because my mom's mother

(35:32):
died caregiving for my oha. Sowe were all set, we had an
intervention with her monthsbefore my dad passed, like all
of my mom's from Holland. And itwas like all her brothers and
sisters, and we sat down withher, like, you can't keep going
like this, like, you're gonnaburn out. We don't want you to
go like you're like, oh, Lon.
And, you know, it was a kind ofthing, right? I wanted my dad to
pass and I wanted him to passpeacefully, because this was

(35:56):
just, to me what my mom wastrapped in. And what my dad was
trapped in, was devastating.
However, it was interesting thatdespite how difficult life was,
my dad was really fighting tonot go like he was really, in
his death, the time of hisdeath, you could see him really

(36:19):
trying to stay with us, whichwas a beautiful thing. So I was
very, like, been off the deathprocess. But yeah, it was
amazing.

Don Priess (36:27):
Well, then that's you should feel be you know,
then that's because of you andyour mom, you know, he had
something to live for Still,despite everything, he still had
something to live for. Becauseyou were giving him that life.
You were you know, you were youwere providing him that love and
something to hold on to. So I dohave a question when because
Susie will tell you that whenher mom was first diagnosed, she

(36:50):
she thought she was going to fixit. She thought she was going to
you know, just by sheer Well,she was going to fix this. We're
going to conquer this. Was thereever that feeling because I mean
with yours? It's a fit, youknow, with Alzheimer's. It's a
progressive thing. This was likebam, now, and the doctors, I'm
sure gave you what the prognosiswas. Did you ever feel that? No,
we're gonna, I'm gonna fix thisthing. Oh,

yes, we did. For years, we fought so hard because
with strokes, physical speechand occupational therapy are
three therapies you can gothrough to get certain things
back. And there's a certain timewindow where people can get
things back, they can get theirspeech back, they can get their
mobility back, they can gettheir motor skills back. But
with my dad's case, God did wefight for it, the things that we

(37:33):
did. We took every kind oftherapy, everyone's had just all
these things, and you're Vikingsand every it's extensor then you
try so hard. We haven't eventried to let my dad drive again.
She put him in the cars andempty parking. We'd like and she
had random emergency. I mean,she we did all of it. Like my

(37:54):
mom, especially pork did notgive up fighting like we tried
to take them places where it wasobviously insane. To have a
very, like partially very like alot of him paralyzed man on an
airplane airplanes are not veryaccessible. They just really
aren't and we guarded but wetook him to France to Holland

(38:15):
cruise. We tried all this stuffand all I got all of it. Every
time was devastating becausethey everything that says it's
handicap accessible. Most of thetime, 75% of the time, it really
isn't like, Oh, you didn't thinkthis these steps here like we're
gonna be a problem for thewheelchair. Like, how is it like
there's not bars in this bad orlike stuff that seems really

(38:39):
basic are often just oh yeah,let's try a beach wheelchair.
Well, my dad, you know, hisdigestive system was also
partially paralyzed. So he washuge. He was already six foot
one. So if you've ever triedlike pushing a frickin beach
wheelchair over the dudes, theJersey Shore Oh. Always think
that it seems so nice. But Iknew it was just such a struggle

(39:03):
to enjoy things still. But webought we tried. And yes, we
tried very hard to get thingsback. Well, this is one other
little thing that I always thinkabout was in the parking lot at
there. It was the Kessler rehabcenter in Chester, New Jersey. I
was like fresh off his stroke.
And I said to the nurse intheory, you know, my dad and I

(39:24):
we always like, I move a lot inNew York City and rebuild
furniture, like build a keytogether. Do you think you'll
ever be able to do that again?
And she gave me this look in mylife like oh, no, never but she
was? Yeah, sure. Sure. You neverknow. It was the know in her

(39:47):
eyes. And it was I probably knewthe answer, but I had something
about letting go of that.
Because we burned in so muchdoing that I had to let go of
it. I had until I just askedher. Yeah,

yeah, no, I get it. I get it. It happens
with every like, you know, Iremember the first person that
really laid out the truth to meabout Alzheimer's was Leeza
Gibbons. And Lisa was like, shewas a friend of a friend. So
this was like, 16 years ago, wewent to lunch. And she said, I
know it doesn't seem like it'sgoing to progress, but it's

(40:24):
going to progress. And I knowthat, you know, you're not going
to know it, and you're going toturn around and you're, you've
lost a whole nother part of her.
So and she was the one thatencouraged me to take photos and
videos, so I don't forget. And,you know, and, and I remember
sitting at lunch thinking, yeah,that's your mom, that's not
gonna be my mom. My mom said,it's not gonna happen to my mom.

(40:45):
I just thought it was everyoneelse's mom, or dad, you know, it
wasn't gonna happen to my mom,because it's different. But you
know, then we quickly realizedthat we are not, you know,
Superman and Superwoman. And weare gonna, we're gonna have to
put on our cape in a differentway. And, you know, and deal

(41:05):
with what we've got. So wow,you're, you're very raw right
now. I feel it.

Yeah. And there's a couple of things you said?
Well, the superhero thing Ialways think of, say that I
think caregivers are the realsuperheroes of the world. You
know, they bring on their pet ontheir backs and their shoulders.
And there was something else yousaid about the recording,
there's an actual line in myshow about, you know, how, what
I went through with my dad mademe realize I have to record
things, I don't lose them,because I really didn't have. I

(41:40):
mean, it was 2010. So like,smartphones didn't come until a
couple years after that. So Idon't, it really didn't have a
recording of his voice ortalking of the soul.

I know, I know, when my dad too, because,
you know, my dad Oh, so longago, and I was like, you know, I
mean, he was such a technophile,we had, you know, eight
millimeters and stuff like that,and, you know, Super Eight or
whatever it was at the time,but, you know, I haven't heard
my dad's voice since I'm 16. SoI, I've missed that so much.

(42:13):
And, and he had one of those,like, you walk into a room and
you know, he's there kind ofguy, you know, and he's like,
this big booming masculine guywith, you know, tons of charisma
and you're just like, I wish Icould just hear that voice
because it's been so long. Youhad I feel like especially

like your mom being a recording artists and
your dad having you have those,but you're filming the wrong
thing, like you're filming thisbeach film Uribe? June.

I know. It there's a quick anecdote, I went
to take all my mom's vinyl andhad it digitized. And I went to
you know, a there's the thislegendary master who masters
from records and are masteredonto records called Bernie
Grundmann. And it turns out thatmy father was his mentor, I

(42:58):
didn't know that my father waswas very big in that industry.
And when I was there, they werestill using my father's
equipment. And so BernieGrundmann will happen to be
there. And he came to tell meall about my dad, like all these
anecdotes, and how all this howbigger than life he was. And he
was saying, he was explained tome because I said, I said, it's
so odd, because I don'tunderstand. Here's my father who

(43:19):
invented the conversion frommono to stereo was one of the
top engineers of his day, and Ido not understand how the sound
gets into the vinyl like, go Ido not understand it. So Bernie
was trying to tell me it's justlike your eardrum, it's all you
know, pulses. And the pulse goesinto the to the cutter and the
cutter puts those pulses intothe vinyl. Right? And he said,

(43:39):
and at the time when your dadwas doing it and he was teaching
me said You know, it's very,it's very sensitive, it picks up
all sounds so at that time, youhave to be very quiet. Well, my
he goes, have you ever do youever remember your father being
quiet? No. So and he said,there's so many times where he
would be talking and it wouldget into the recording that they
were like mastering onto thevalue. And I said you have to

(44:00):
find those for me because Ihaven't heard his voice in so
long. But I so I haven't beenable to follow up with him and
get it but I know His voice isout there on some vinyl. That
would be such a it would be likestrange, and I don't know, it

(44:21):
just would be incredible, but Iunderstand what you're saying.
So tell us about your show.
Where is it? It's opening inJune?

Yes, it's in June at the Hollywood Fringe
Festival. So there's five showsthis June at the Hudson
theatres, um, which is there.
It's on Santa Monica Boulevard.
And it's also I booked anaccessible theater that was
important to me. And and thefirst show well, the preview is
June 8, and then I believe it'sthe fifth to the 23rd, the 27th

(44:54):
and the 29th. It's mostlyweekends, but there is one
Thursday the 27th and Yeah, sopart of Hollywood fringe, you
can look up quick soundHollywood. If you I think if you
just Google quicksand HollywoodFringe Festival, or quicksand,
and my name Heather Fink, you'llfind a link to buy ticket.
That's

great. No, I'm definitely, we're definitely
gonna go and see you are yougoing to record it, you're gonna
have somebody record it,

I am going to record it. I thought about
having a live stream, but Idecided against it because the
show is first of all, sointimate. And I really look at
this show as a first run, like,I want to do it more, I want to
bring it to New York, I want tomake it even longer because I
have a couple of musical numbersthat we're spending time. And
this is an hour, so I love it.
So I just want to keepdeveloping and doing it more.

(45:43):
And this to me feels like afirst run beginning of
something. And because it's fiveshows that I really liked, I
hope to fill those seeds. But Iknow for friends, it's normal to
do that many shows. I hoped tomaybe go to the Edinburgh
Fringe, which is like the bigcenter of the Fringe Festival
next year. Yeah, so I just wantto keep developing and doing
more and more and hearing fromaudience hearing from people

(46:05):
who've been through this, likedoing you feel seen in this.
What do you want to know moreabout? I want to hear from
people as well. And I hope tomake this a television show. And
I want to incorporate so as muchof this world through this. What
would be a family instead ofdrama idiom calling it a trauma?

Comedy, that's so great. To comedy.
That's great.

Don Priess (46:31):
Is there is there anything as we as we've been
working on the documentary, youknow, we there's so much you
know, it's obviously aboutSusie's mom. And there's some
moments and you know that Suzyjust like can you please fast
forward through that. And we'vehad, she's had to
compartmentalize and I have tobecause I was very close with
her mom, just so we can getthrough it and really treat it
like it's like this? Or is therecertain parts, either as you

(46:54):
were writing or as you'rerehearsing, performing, that
consistently hit you? And how doyou deal with that? You just use
it? Or you just say, No, I gottaput that aside, and, and what
are you gonna be enough to tellme all of them?

Well, yes, absolutely writing it. And the
crazy part too, is that there'sso much because I can't have the
show be too long. That's notpleasant for the listener, or
for the audience. So I do haveto pick and choose. And I'm
caught a lot of stories andstories that I feel are
essential. And I've reallyfocused it down to what I think

(47:27):
are the most important focusesfor the show. But as I was
writing it, getting it out. It'ssuch a normal thing as a
creative or a writer that whenyou write anything, you'll beat
yourself up, you'll get thisself doubt thing that goes, Oh,
this isn't good. Or this ishard, or it's not coming out,
right? Or what business do Ihave the data, you go through

(47:48):
all that stuff. So I knew thatthat was familiar when I started
facing that. But in this it waseven more like I was
procrastinating big time. And itwas like either you have now
write the scene, write thescene, because so much. If I
were to tell you specifics, I'lltell you what I actually tell
him the show is stuff that'sgonna be hard every time I tell

(48:08):
the actual story of his death, Itell it very specifically,
because I don't think naturaldeath is depicted, I just don't
think it's depicted much at allin a real way. You know, murders
and bang, bang, you get shotkind of deaths are depicted. So
I do tell the story of hisdeath. And I tell the story of
his stroke. And I also give alot of backstory of myself and

(48:30):
my family, because part of theconcept of quicksand is how we
lose ourselves in these things.
So I want to sort of set up,okay, here's who we were, here's
who I was on. And I want to askthe question of like, Am I still
that person? Have I lost wealways talk about, you know, as
we get older, or I'm not thatperson anymore, but like what

(48:51):
parts of us still really arealways are, what parts are lost
or what parts? What is actuallygame like that we've grown. So I
asked a lot of those kinds ofquestions. But I cut out some of
my really favorite super funstories from my own life too,
because I was like, the point ofanything I'm going to share
about myself has to be the storyof my own life's personal goal.

(49:12):
So I'm going to tell you aboutthat stuff. I'm going to cut
this other stuff out. And thenwith my parents and my dad, I
sort of did want to set up whatwas going on in our lives before
that. And I want to tell you thestory of the stroke, but part of
the roof. Okay, so one thingI'll say is I sort of do this
clown like, demonstration ofcaregiving, which I think you

(49:35):
can imagine could easily lenditself to common care caregiving
for someone's eye. That'ssomething that I do, because I
think rather than tell you allof these specific stories, I
will rather take you into theemotional healing we're doing.
So I've sort of summarized someof the stories because I'm

(49:57):
mindful of audience I'm mindfulof they're getting something out
of it instead of just likeexhausting them with like this
happened this happened thishappened. But so because the
answer your question aboutwhat's been hard to get through,
it's so hard talking aboutyourself and trying to summarize
yourself, period, whether it'sthe happy moments or the sad
Romans and owning up to yourown, like midlife crisis career

(50:21):
failures in the entertainmentindustry. I mean, that's doesn't
feel great. But I think it'sworthwhile because I know other
people connect, I think evensuper successful people feel
like failures in this business,because it's designed to make
you feel inadequate. It'sdesign, though.

Yeah, yeah, I relate to it. Even in the
documentary, I knew that we hadto establish my relationship
with my mom and who I was atbefore and who and what my life,
like, being one of the, one ofthe people in the the was there

(51:00):
was the chaplain from hospicecame in, wrote wrote about me,
in the notes in the medicalrecords, saying, you know, this
poor girl has dedicated herentire life to her mother, and,
you know, I'm so worried aboutwhat will happen after her what
her life will be, like, afterher mother dies. And I was so
offended by that because of her,you know, shallowness to even

(51:24):
write something like that. Ididn't, that my fear was that is
there anybody out there thatwould think that I was this
helicopter daughter, I wasn't ahelicopter daughter, I had a
life, I have children, I have acareer I, I dance I, I do that,
you know, and I wanted to showthat I'm a full person. And then
I was watching it, you know, inour first cut, and I'm like, Oh,

(51:45):
my God cut me out. There's toomuch of me. It's like too much.
Right? And, and, you know, thereis the, the coming to Jesus kind
of like, you know, looking atyourself and going, you know, is
that important? Where, what, howdoes it support the message
we're trying to make, and thatis very difficult, from, you
know, our perspective as writersand creators, and then the

(52:08):
people who are, are, you know,deeply enmeshed in this
narrative, you know, so it is,it is quite a challenge. And I
understand that what you'resaying completely 100% and it's
very delicate. It's a delicatedance. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah.

There isn't gonna moment like of jokes I cut out,
I had sort of like a jokingmoment about my, I mentioned the
scamming of my moment, too rawfor me to hate it. I don't want
to make fun of it. So sorry,audience, you're not getting
that laugh. Like I'm, I'm notgiving recall, as personal as it
can be what we're doing. Very

personal.
And, you know, and I do thinkthat, you know, I'll credit Phil
Rosenthal, I got to saw I sawhim talk, my friend, moderated a
talk with him, who was theshowrunner many things. But you
know, everyone loves Raymond.
And he talks about how, youknow, universality is in the
details. And so, you know, Ialways remembered that, because

(53:10):
when I was doing my mom and thegirl, which was my, my film
about my mom for Alzheimer's, Ikept that in mind was very much
in my forefront, thinking that,you know, oh, is this is anyone
going to relate to this? This isour story. It's so it's so
nuanced to our relationship toour life. And then I remember
him saying that, that that, youknow, that the universality is

(53:34):
in the details. And that's howyou reach people. So you have to
have, and he's right. So youhave to have faith in that. And,
you know, and we saw thatfirsthand, like, Don, and I did
the festival circuit with thatfilm. And, you know, it was
tremendously successful. And we,we, and besides

Don Priess (53:53):
being in the edit bay, we're like, is anyone care
gonna care about this? Does thisrelate to anybody? And we were
like, we weren't, we did notknow.

I didn't know I just had to be truthful
and tell the story. And I wantedto make sure that I showed, you
know, that trauma 80 of it, likeyou said, I was totally stealing
that now, Heather, I love it somuch. I will credit you,

Don Priess (54:14):
you can license it from her.

I love it.
I had to show the tragedy of itbecause there was so much comedy
mom and I related with comedy,you know, and that's what I
loved about Valerie Harper wasthat she had that lovely balance
of heart empathy and, and thefunny bone you know, and and it
was like the perfect she was theperfect person to play this
role. But you know, I had tolean into that and say that

(54:41):
those those moments are whatwill touch people even if it's
not what happened to them. It'sthe authenticity of it.

I was I can't wait to see your film. I have to see
that. It sounds like you'reboth. I love that. I have to
tell you this my familyInterview I've done because it's
so rare that you get to connectboth on like the caregiving and
elder care elements, but alsothat we're creatives and we are,
we're trying to take what hashappened to us and our hearts

(55:12):
and not just make something ofit that's useful, but it's maybe
something that's useful toothers, you know, so that we
learn, we can connect. And thatis such a beautiful quote about,
you know, the the universality,the universality being in the
details. That's always true forcomedy, you know, the more
specific, like a joke or detailis, the more someone can laugh,

(55:34):
because even if it's not theirdetail, it can be next to their
personal details. I wrapped upmy real, yeah, authentic, it's
real, like, the more specificthe more real. Yeah, so I would
love love to see your film. Andthere is that thing that like
when you say something, or it'sjust you buy or there's
something that's very isolatingabout a solo show, that's like

(55:56):
in my head for so long, like thefirst time i There is one other,
there's a quicksand fairy thatis coming into the middle of the
show. But that's there's one orthere person. And when I ran
lines with her for the firsttime, I had was that satisfying,
like, Oh, thank God. We'rehaving probably the more fun
part of the show. But yeah, itreally does feel like a lot. And

(56:18):
there's been moments where I,it's weird to retell the story
of your dad stuff out in greatdetail over and over again. And
that's a weird thing to do. Yes,and it's probably weird, like
showing these clips from yourlife, you know, over and over. I
don't think we detached from it,though.

I can't attach but we can
compartmentalize. That's what Ido. Yeah. You know, because I,
my biggest fear was my wholelife is my mom dying my whole
life. Like, we used to laughabout it, she'd go, Well, don't
worry about it. Because we don'tdie. We're not dying. You and I
are not dying this week goes,We're not going to do it. We
joke around about it, you know,and like, but if anything
happens to Susie, I'll bejumping in right after you. So

(56:57):
don't worry, you know, we therewas that kind of thing. And when
I when it was coming, and I kepttelling the doctors, she's not
ready to die. And but I saidI'll know because we
communicate, I will know whenshe's done. I know that 100% And
I had to, you know, woman up,you know, for lack of a better
term, to be there for my mom andlet her know that I was I was

(57:21):
you know, I was okay with it.
Because she knew what a big babyI was about it. And I wanted to
not be the big baby. I wanted tobe strong for her and me. And
you know, the last thing I sayin the final narrate the
voiceover in the film is thatyou taught me how to live and
now you're taught me how to die.
And I watched her die sobeautifully. And, and I'm glad I

(57:49):
didn't. I'm glad that I was theone. And I'm glad that I got you
know, I got in I'd like took allthe tubes out and laid down next
to her and cuddled on her andloved on her. And it was one of
my favorite moments. It's one ofmy best memories. And I'm glad I
had that time to do that. And soimportant, and I just felt proud

(58:11):
of myself. I'm proud of my mom.
We are like well lived in forher being such a badass, strong
girl for the last six months.
And I told her You did such agood job. I'm so proud of you.

It's really wild.
Like how, like, I love you. Imean, not hearing you say how
much the death was beautiful andmeaningful and powerful to you
for you. Like that's what Iexperienced too. And I do wish
people would talk more aboutthat because it was miraculous
when I felt I witnessed so

agreed and I loved my mom more than
anything and I it was my biggestfear. Like I used to just go I
can't I can't I can't and I hada guest on about two years
before on our show who's stillmy friend now and and Trish love
and I adore her and she wentshe's very strong empathetic

(59:06):
woman who is you know close tolike a death doula and wrote
books about it and and she toldme on my podcast before my mom
died, you know, I wasn't eventhinking of her dying yet. But I
just said I don't even like tothink about it is going to be my
hardest thing in the life. Shesaid it's going to be beautiful.
You're going to be strong andyou were going to get through it
because I see you and I had thatin the back of my mind the whole

(59:29):
time. And if it wasn't for herframing it that way for me. I
don't know if I would have beenable to view it like that but I
went into it because she Ireally trusted this woman and no
thought it's going to be what itis it's going to be as beautiful
as a birth. Is this death

that's amazing. I mean, I don't know people who
are death doula is that is sucha beautiful thing for anyone
listening to know that yourdeath a death can be beautiful.
Or nonviolent, that should

Susie Singer Carter (01:00:03):
be it.
Yeah. It's a it is an art. It'shonor. It's it's, it's
spiritual, it's a transition.
And in if anything, it should bethe most dignified thing that
you can go through if you do ifat all possible because it is
your it is your moment your exitshould be spectacular. You know,

(01:00:26):
I made the room as beautiful asI could in the hospital, I put,
you know, everything I could Ididn't know how to do anything I
just did from my gut, you know,and I just tried to make it as
peaceful and loving and warm andsafe. So now let's go cry
because now I feel like I did alittle I got a little teary

(01:00:51):
eyed. Very emotional now. I loveto having you on. This was so
great. I can't wait to see yourshow. And I'm wishing you so
much success with it. I knowyou're gonna have great success
because it's coming from areally good place. It's coming
from love. That's what ourshows. This really is.

Don Priess (01:01:10):
Yes, it is. Do you know why Susan? Why I do but
tell. And that's well that'sbecause love is powerful. Love
is contagious, and love conquersall we do. Thank everyone for
watching and listening today.
Please if you're in the LA areain June go check out quicksand
with Heather Fink Ben and asSuzy said we can't wait to see

(01:01:30):
it cannot land and and likeshare or all those good things.
Subscribe to our podcast so morepeople can hear it. And we will
absolutely see you next time.
Take care.

Heather Fink (01:01:45):
Thank you both so much.

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HEATHER FINK: COMEDIAN/FILMMAKER/CAREGIVER - Surviving Quicksand

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}HEATHER FINK: COMEDIAN/FILMMAKER/CAREGIVER - Surviving Quicksand