November 8, 2024 • 42 mins
Are you struggling to overcome GI symptoms that just won’t go away, no matter what you try? In this episode, Dr. Heather Finley talks with Samantha Kane about understanding the root causes of persistent gut and skin issues and the factors often overlooked in conventional approaches. Together, they dive into the connection between gut health, stress, and the nervous system, shedding light on why traditional diet-based solutions might be keeping you stuck. You’ll learn why managing your stress response and nervous system regulation is key to truly healing your gut and how addressing these elements can transform your approach to lasting relief from GI symptoms.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome to the Love Your Gut Podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Heather Finley, registereddietitian and gut health
specialist.
I understand the frustration ofdealing with GI issues because
I've been there and I spent overtwo decades searching for
answers for my own gut issues ofconstipation, bloating, and
stomach pain.
I've dedicated my life tounderstanding and solving my own
(00:24):
gut issues.
And now I'm here to guide you.
On this podcast, I'll help youidentify the true root causes of
your discomfort.
So you can finally ditch yoursymptoms for good.
My goal is to empower you withthe knowledge and tools you need
so that you can love your gutand it will love you right back.
So if you're ready to learn alot, gain a deeper understanding
(00:46):
of your gut and find lastingrelief.
You are in the right place.
Welcome to the love your gutpodcast.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Welcome back to the next episode of the love your
gut podcast.
So excited to be here withSamantha Cain.
She is a registered dietitian.
She is actually a former clientand now business owner, and
really excited to talk to hertoday about her philosophy of
nutrition, her journey with herown GI and C.
Skin issues and just someinsights she has about nutrition
(01:21):
and kind of this like debatebetween conventional and
functional world and kind ofwhere she's landed herself.
So Samantha, welcome.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And Heather, I have to say you have a great podcast
voice.
You just turn that on.
I loved that.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Well, thank you.
Okay, well, let's just get rightinto it.
So I'd love for you to justshare with the listeners who you
are, a little bit about yourstory and you know, you're a
business owner now you went toNYU actually, and the thing that
I forgot to mention, Samanthaactually worked in our program
as well.
So she's a former client.
Turned actually employee thatworked for me for about two
(02:01):
years before she did herdietetic internship.
So we've had quite thelongstanding relationship.
And it's been fun to watch yourjourney, but I know your journey
was full of ups and downs withsome of the struggles that you
had.
So give us just kind of thebackstory of like how you got to
where you are now.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
You just can't get rid of me.
You've really been with methrough a lot of different life
stages here.
But definitely it, this has beena long journey and it started
from when I was very young andit took me a long time to
actually be able to put all ofthe pieces together.
So I was actually just laughingat your post the other day when
(02:41):
you said, how are all my type Aoverachiever athletes doing with
their gut and hormones?
Only until very recently andstarting in your program was I
able to put those piecestogether with my lifestyle and
how that was impacting my gutand autoimmune disease
ultimately.
So it really just started.
I grew up on an ultra processedfood diet.
(03:02):
Like I'm not exaggerating fromage five to the moment I went
off to college at 18.
I started my day with pancakesand high fructose corn syrup.
Flattered in them every singlemorning.
And I was a classical ballerina.
I did that five to six days aweek.
(03:23):
There were no off seasons.
And then when I went off tocollege, there was just a lot of
talk about dieting and differenttypes of foods.
Big raw salads were very in,going vegan, cutting out food
groups.
So me and my friends we triedall the things and I never just
developed those cooking skillsfrom a young age.
(03:45):
And there was no access to it aswell in college.
And my GI issues, the chronicbloating and constipation just
kept magnifying with time.
It, I had a great life.
It was just always lingering inthe background and things really
started to change when thingsmigrated to my skin.
(04:07):
So it was not only just thischronic bloating and
constipation to the point whereI would look almost six months
pregnant at night and couldbarely button my pants.
My skin now was having thesemassive welts, head to toe,
truly.
And it was humiliating.
People would ask me on thestreet if I was contagious.
And so I started going throughthe traditional medical route.
(04:31):
And physicians, you know, at thevery beginning for dermatology
refused to run a biopsy on me.
And I worked in health insuranceat the time, and I understood
that the payment models werechanging.
So that essentially incentivizedphysicians not to run tests
because it saved them money intheir bottom line.
(04:52):
And so it took me three doctorsjust to get some basic biopsies
done on my skin.
And then in traditionalmedicine, I was handed a guy
that said, cut out all thesefoods, go low FODMAP, you're
probably lactose intolerant,maybe try cutting out gluten.
Good luck.
And it sent me down this spiralof food fear, and my weight
(05:16):
started to fluctuate as wellbecause I just started seeing
food in such a mathematical typemindset.
So the next step in my journeywas the more functional medicine
route, and I really felt likethey were speaking my language
of, let's get to the root.
Like, why are you having thisbloating?
Why are you having all theseskin rashes?
What is really going on?
(05:38):
I was eventually diagnosed witha rare autoimmune skin disease
called PLC as well as gut tapepsoriasis.
And then irritable bowelsyndrome, which is not
autoimmune.
And from there, they did bloodtesting of food sensitivity
analysis.
I mean, Heather, as you know,everything comes out positive.
I was allergic to everything,apparently, or intolerant to it.
(06:01):
So for everything from superhealthy foods like eggs to, you
know, random ones like oxtailshowed up.
I've never eaten oxtail in mylife.
So I was like, I don't know whythat's on here.
And the fact that was even onthere is wild.
It was very strange.
So I developed just a lot offood fears and was on such a
(06:22):
restrictive diet, a lot ofsupplements and my symptoms, the
skin actually did ebb and flowduring that time for the first
time ever, which was wonderful.
But yeah, my, my gut was justdisastrous.
So I saw you on social media andyou were The stop of saying,
Hey, you've done functionalmedicine.
(06:43):
Have you done the traditionalroute?
You know, let's chat.
You spoke directly to mysymptoms and I quite frankly,
like you and your team didchange my outlook on nutrition,
health.
I have not had a severe skinflare up in literally since
working with you.
So I'm approaching five years.
(07:04):
And my gut, I feel like I canmanage it.
So like it, it does sometimesflare in times of stress, but I
now have the toolkit to manageit.
And I really thank you and yourprogram for helping me with
that.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
That's amazing.
It's already been five years.
I feel like the time has blownso fast because I so distinctly
remember talking to you and youwere in school going back to
study, to be a dietician becauseyou wanted to, you change your
career, which is so admirable.
And so life was a little bitstressful when we first talked.
(07:39):
And I remember you thinking do Ihave time to do this?
I remember you asking me, well,what elimination diet are we
going to have to do?
And I told you we're not doingan elimination diet.
And so walk us through maybesome of the things And I'm just
curious about what kind of fearsyou had because you really had
done your due diligence on theconventional side and the
(08:00):
functional side in some sense.
I mean, all the foodsensitivity, testing, et cetera,
probably created a lot of foodfear with you.
Did you do supplement protocolsand such with the functional
doctor as well?
And then, yeah, what led you tokeep reaching out to?
Potentially find relief, eventhough you tried two very
(08:20):
drastically different things.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I just felt I don't take no for an answer.
And I was like, there's no way Ihave to live like this.
My world was getting smaller.
I was more fearful to go out torestaurants.
I didn't know what seasonings oroils they would be using.
And during I'm a millennial.
So growing up during that timeof veganism, the China study
came out with Dr.
Colin T.
(08:44):
Campbell.
And things have that narrativearound meat.
protein complex carbohydrates.
There was so much conflictinginformation.
And so when the functionalmedicine group came in and that
food sensitivity came in andsort of confirmed for me a lot
of that that notion that thosefoods should be pulled out in
(09:07):
order to heal, that they'reinflammatory.
That was what I came to you withthat this list of foods in my
mind that created just bySociety by proven in research
studies proven by thesefunctional medicine
practitioners That these arefoods that are causing the
problem But what changed in yourprogram that narrative that
(09:29):
changes the foods aren't causingthe problem It's you have an
unhealthy unbalanced ecosystemright now You from head to toe,
starting with maybe digestiveenzymes in your mouth to the
stomach acid production as youkeep moving down the body.
That chain of events.
I never put that together untilI was in your program.
(09:51):
So switching that narrative ofHey, food's not causing food
might be, you know, flaring somethings right now, but it's
really about the ecosystem ofyour gut.
And that was just a completechange in conversation and how
we as a team approach approachthe problem.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah.
And so tell us kind of a littlebit more about maybe the
biggest, maybe that was yourbiggest light bulb moment of
okay, food is flaring mysymptoms, but now I can actually
address something that will makefood, not flare my symptoms or
what did that?
It wasn't a linear process.
(10:31):
We're not going to beat aroundthe bush.
It's not You know, you starteddoing something one week and you
know, in a week, your symptomswere gone.
So walk us through what thatprocess was like, maybe some of
the setbacks that you had thatwere challenging and you know,
some of the light bulb momentsthat you had along the way.
So many,
Speaker 4 (10:49):
where
Speaker 3 (10:49):
do I
Speaker 4 (10:50):
start with this one?
I think one, you were for thefirst time you were honest with
me and you said, listen, You'vehad GI issues for about a
decade, 10 years.
I'd say for every year, it wouldbe one month of healing.
And when you said that to me, Iactually felt hope because I
(11:10):
felt like that was so honestwhere sometimes we're thrown all
these supplements and it's youshould feel better immediately.
And you were very honest upfrontof saying, This is going to be a
little bit up and down, but I doexpect in about 10 months for
you to really start to see somechange.
And that made me feel like itwas possible, and that growth
would happen, and that way too,like four months in when maybe I
(11:34):
had like some flares or somesymptoms coming back, I didn't
panic that time.
I was like, this is normal.
Heather said it was normal.
This is part of the process.
That was a big light bulbmoment.
I couldn't undo my diet and mystress and my overtraining for
almost 20 years of my life inthree months.
(11:56):
It just was never going tohappen, but it made me empowered
and felt like I could take backthis narrative and actually
change incrementally.
And so what you did, that was alittle bit different than other
teams was Put that out frontdidn't guarantee like any
massive promises in two weeksand six weeks But then I still
(12:16):
had your support the entiretime.
So the chats in between ourappointments That even like on
the messenger just knowing thatyour team was there was
incredibly helpful Another biglight bulb moment.
I would say was the additivefood approach.
So that was the first timesaying You Hey, we want to
(12:38):
expand your diet.
There's a lot of things thatyou're not eating that are
protective of not only the gut,but your entire immune system,
thereby impacting your skin andhow you respond to environmental
toxins.
Like you want to create a coatof armor for your body.
And I never looked at myself asstrong.
Like when I would go tofunctional medicine or
(12:59):
traditional medicine, I was sofragile.
I felt so fragile.
If there was anything I did outof.
that lane, I would be just in aposition where I wouldn't heal,
where you flipped again, thatnarrative of you can come from a
place of strength with this,we're going to build a coat of
armor around your body.
And you do that by adding foods,not taking foods away.
(13:20):
There were new foods.
I was trying that I never hadbefore in my life, like the
fermented foods that wasn't.
A normal part or regular part ofmy diet.
I didn't know the differencebetween all the different types
of breads that were out thereLike sourdough was a whole new
world for me and what that meantAnd the last thing that I think
(13:40):
was a big light bulb moment andthis one, this is a tough one.
I had an ego, like truly beinghonest, like coming in, I was
like, I ain't healthy.
I eat healthy.
I had a victim mindset of youcan't tell me what to do.
And if you actually think aboutthis, when we're kids, one of
the first ways we express ourdominance, our autonomy, our
(14:04):
independence Is through food,and we start to refuse food, you
know, from a very young age.
We drive our parents.
Absolutely not.
I believe that never reallyleaves.
And so when I or anybody issitting on the other side of the
table, you know, talking to aclinician or a dietitian about
food.
(14:25):
It's very natural to become soprotective of that and a little
bit of lying to yourself.
And I was lying to myself.
I didn't really ever take anhonest inventory about what I
was eating.
And again, it was more aboutwhat I was not eating.
It was more about what I was noteating.
And so once I got very radicallyhonest with myself and didn't
(14:48):
feel threatened by you and yourteam, that you were going to
take something away and you werereally adding, it all just
started coming together.
And.
Within about that timeline thatyou said, it took a probably
about a year.
I really did.
Like I can, my life is muchbigger.
It's not smaller.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Gosh, that is so good.
And that is such a good point.
Especially, you know, I have asix year old and a two year old
you're right.
I mean, they express theirautonomy by well, I'm not going
to eat that or I'm going tothrow this on the floor.
You know, we're a little bitpast the throwing food on the
floor stage, at least for now.
But Yeah, it's so true.
And we all do have an ego aboutour food because it's so
(15:30):
personal.
And I think that's what we oftenforget.
I remember when you were workingon our team and every year we
have a holiday workshop for ourclients.
And one thing that I soappreciated about you was that
We were preparing for thisholiday workshop and we each
took a different part of it youknow, how to kind of navigate
(15:51):
the holidays, how to navigatefood, how to navigate symptoms,
et cetera.
And one of the things that youdid that we still have available
to our clients is like all thedifferent cultural recipes.
Like you brought in recipes fromdifferent cultures that
incorporated different types offoods.
And I think that's just such agood reminder of Nutrition is
(16:13):
not just about food.
It's also.
personal, you know, there arefamily recipes that are a lot
more than really what the foodis itself.
Like it's about the memory.
There's you know, we share somuch with other people around
food.
So when you go to somebody andyou get a list of foods that you
(16:34):
can't eat, you're not justtaking away someone's autonomy.
You're also potentially takingaway moments and memories that
they may have.
I'm thinking about a client thatwe have right now who was
working with somebody and shewas going on a trip for two
weeks and she asked theprovider, well, what should I do
about food?
(16:55):
And he said, well, you shouldpack your food for two weeks.
And she's I am absolutely notgoing to do that.
But, and that's like such a goodexample of that's just not
sustainable and that's not goingto work.
But I just appreciate that you,you brought that up because
you're right.
Like food and nutrition is somuch more than just eat this,
(17:15):
not that.
I know we were talking about ita little bit before we started
recording.
So we can go off on that tangentif you want, but there can be
kind of a stigma of being adietician.
I know my husband gets this alot where.
People at his work will hearlike he's married to a dietitian
and they'll be like, Oh, I'm sosorry.
You must just eat salad all thetime.
(17:36):
And he's no, we actually don't.
Like I eat better than anyperson I've ever met.
And I think you were sharingtoo, your fiance has had.
A similar experience with justlike some of the stigmas, I
think that come with like foodnutrition.
We think that nutrition is aboutwhat we shouldn't eat and it
(17:56):
really is about what we get toenjoy and get to nourish
ourselves with.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah, and it's almost like when you go to see a
physician or a doctor or adietitian, like you expect them
to just go right for cutting outabstaining.
And that's a sign ofperseverance and strength.
But like the true strength isagain, how you can integrate
things into your everyday Life.
(18:27):
And I will say that's been oneof the greatest joys.
Like my fiance is not in thehealthcare field.
He's in a completely differentindustry works in more corporate
job.
And.
With that, he's been so open andexcited and it's more like, Hey,
did you remember to add theturmeric into my eggs this
morning?
Or Oh, I could taste that.
(18:48):
We forgot the cinnamon in ourcoffee.
Like these are additive,wonderful things.
And using herbs and spices isnot only what adds flavor, but
it's medicinal.
And I remember one time heactually said to me, he was
like, I assumed herbs and spiceswere bad for me because it
tastes so good.
And I, it's again, wow, no,these foods taste good too
(19:11):
because they are medicinal forus.
They heal us, they protect usfrom chronic preventable
illnesses.
And so using just a little bit.
Most days over time andreframing that again is what
really protects your gut andultimately the rest of your
immune system.
So that's been reallyeyeopening.
(19:32):
And then watching him to flipthat narrative when he's talking
with people, you tend to get twodifferent responses.
Oh my God, you have the cheatcode at life.
I'm so lucky you are marrying adietitian or the other way
around.
The big raw salads.
That is a very American thing.
My sister lives in Tokyo and mybrother lives in Paris.
(19:53):
Both for work.
And my sister, one of the firstthings she said when she moved
to Tokyo, which they have someof the lowest rates of
autoimmune disease and chronicGI issues.
One of the things she said isone at every primary care
appointment, they run a GI mapschool test.
I was blown away annually.
And she was so upset by it, bythe way.
She was like, this isdisgusting.
(20:15):
I was like, I immediately textedyou.
I was like, Japan just does thisautomatically.
But she also said they don'tconsume these massive smoothies
with protein powders or theselarge raw salads.
Like everything is cooked.
There's a lot of small amountsof fermented foods spread out
(20:36):
throughout the day.
But they also, they have desserteverywhere.
They have bakeries and pastrieseverywhere, but it's because
their relationship with food andcooking is so much more
nourishing and starts at a veryyoung age, it's not restrictive.
They're able to moderate in, ina different way.
And it's really such afascinating culture.
(20:58):
And she said, it's talking to mehere and watching this journey
and then moving to Tokyo andexperience what that actually
looks like in real life whenit's on such a societal level.
It's just, she said, it'sfascinating going back and forth
between the U S and Tokyo.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
My brother has said similar things.
So my brother.
is in the air force and he livesin Italy just for context.
And he's lived there for almosttwo or yeah, about two years
now.
And interestingly enough, youknow, this is a guy that's never
had GI issues, like never had,you know, any of the either of
(21:38):
us have dealt with.
And now he told me last time hewas in the U S he's Heather,
it's so crazy.
Every time I come to the U S Iget sick.
He's like I throw up.
Because he's so used to eating awide variety of foods.
He's so used to the town that helives in.
He can walk and buy fresh foodevery day.
(21:59):
And you know, they lack nothing.
Like He eats like you said, it'snot like he's eating the super
restrictive diet.
He's eating really deliciousItalian food.
And loving it and it, but it'sall fresh and it's also enjoyed
very slowly.
And with people and it just,again, kind of reiterates the
(22:22):
whole, it's so much more.
than just what the food is.
There's the experience of it.
There's the whole meal hygienething which we talk about a lot
in our program, like chewingyour food, taking your time, et
cetera.
Like all of these things reallymatter.
So much and when I actually thatwas a
Speaker 4 (22:40):
roadblock for me when I first joined your program and
you started talking about that Iwas upset.
I was like, No, this is I am inso much pain.
I look, I was so humiliatedabout how I looked with my skin
and you were like, telling me tochew my food and I was like, Oh,
come on.
That's not work.
Yeah.
And it was a Really importantpiece to the puzzle.
(23:01):
I can confidently say that.
What was it?
Everything did it solve all myproblems?
No, of course not.
It was still like a 10 monthlong journey and I was in flows
in that.
But it is the way that you sitdown and approach your food
actually activates yourdigestive system and your brain
and your gut constantly are incommunication with each other.
(23:24):
And without those moments, it'slike you start eating and
nothing was activated in orderto properly both digest and
absorb your nutrients.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
A hundred percent.
So let's shift gears just alittle bit.
You know, you worked with us ata really interesting time.
Like I mentioned, you were onyour way back to school, had
just left your career in, it wasin healthcare, but in a
different side of healthcare.
And Then worked on our team fortwo years as a health coach.
(23:54):
So you did a lot of kind of thefood and symptom log reviews for
our clients, which was amazing.
And then right when you startedyour dietetic internship
obviously you left our team togo focus on that.
And now you are starting abusiness.
And so you've had this crazykind of, you know, Five year
(24:15):
journey of, you know, going fromreally debilitating GI and skin
issues to then working on ourteam to then doing your dietetic
internship, becoming adietitian, and now starting a
business.
How has all of this, so like allthe things that you've struggled
with and learned impacted yourwork?
(24:37):
As a dietitian and like how youthink about food, how you
approach food with your clients,how you navigate your life now
and all of that.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah, there's so much to unpack here.
I'm so grateful for thecorporate experience that I had
because I have a lot of clientsnow that I see that are coming
from that corporate world whereThey might not have a lot of
autonomy over their own scheduleor are relying on certain foods
around them.
That's just available to themand maybe have uncomfortable
(25:11):
kitchen skills.
And so, because I came fromthat, I understand and.
Can speak their language and sayit is possible to still make it
all work, even with yourschedule that you have going on
right now.
But I can also say it's soloaded, all of those
experiences, all of thesetbacks.
(25:32):
As corny as it sounds, puttingit all together is what led me
here.
So it's just like having agreater amount of empathy and
looking at it from a holisticlens.
It is absolutely never ever theone thing.
So I will never be able to helpsomebody in one session and say,
this is why your gut is a trainwreck.
(25:55):
This is why your skin isflaring.
The body is an entire system.
So maybe some stress and traumathat you had as a young adult
and then lack of cooking skillsand having that relationship
with it and your family incombination with.
Diet culture and dieting incombination of just never
learning, never having thisinformation that those initial
(26:19):
sessions that you have with theclient to actually get to know
them on a deeper level is theonly way to actually put what is
a holistic plan together.
The biggest thing too, I thinkthe brain is so involved in this
and that took a long time toclick It's not I don't love the
word mindset because that mademe feel like it was my attitude
(26:40):
but like actually talking aboutthe way our brains Learn and
seek out new information.
It's so true that it's a lotharder from a neuroscience
standpoint to actually removesomething out of your life.
It is a lot easier to add and tobuild.
And you introduced me to habitstacking.
(27:01):
And so I think.
With that understanding of thescience and the mechanisms of it
and being able to build newhabits incrementally over time,
I think all of these experienceexperiences just in general show
that different things need tocome together in order for it to
work.
And then leveraging that part ofyour brain of how can we keep
(27:22):
adding things and buildingthings in a way that's Long term
and sustainable, essentially.
So those I think are like thebiggest things of putting all of
those worlds together and justbeing able to have better
empathy with clients at theother end of the table and
making it actually work in theirlife.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
I think it's so cool to have watched your journey and
I'm sure anybody listening tothis right now, you know, they
hear, okay, this was five yearsago that you started this
journey and you haven't had amajor flare since then, but your
life doesn't feel restricted.
So walk us through maybe whatcan you do now that you couldn't
(28:01):
do before?
And What are the biggest needlemovers for you?
Not that they're going to be thesame as the person listening to
this episode, but I think italso is important to recognize
that gut health, skin health,all the things that people see
us for energy, hormones,whatever it is.
It's not like you complete theprotocol.
And then you're just done andyou never have to do anything
(28:23):
again.
Like the fact that you've hadfive years of, you know, pretty
unremarkable symptom flares,despite being in grad school,
doing an internship, gettingengaged, planning a wedding,
starting a business, like a lotof stressful things, you know,
is pretty remarkable and an, anda testament to the fact that you
(28:44):
likely are.
Putting in the work and beingconsistent with things that make
you feel good.
And so would you be willing toshare what are the biggest, most
important things for you thatyou think kind of keep
everything stable and notflaring?
And then on the other side,like, how is your life better
(29:05):
now that you aren't dealing withflares, even amongst having to
maybe be consistent with somethings that you weren't
consistent with before?
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah, I think intentionality and pause as
again, some of this soundsridiculous, but the reason I
brought up at the beginning ofthis, that I was a ballerina
first, you know, six days a weekwith no off seasons up until I
was 18.
That's an integral part of thestory.
And so again, going back topicking and choosing what you
(29:39):
choose to partake in.
And that goes for exercise andactivity.
Like it's not my personality isa little go big or go home.
And I was doing that witheverything.
And with exercise, I was a bigone.
So it was like five to six daysa week, sometimes like running
hit training.
If I wasn't in the gym for, andit wasn't even from a body
(30:00):
perspective.
I just thought that's what you.
did.
I thought that's what was best.
And it was true, justmisinformation.
And so one of the biggest thingsthat has helped kept me healthy
is transitioning to veryintentional strength training a
couple days a week.
I add some cardio at the end.
It makes me feel really good.
And I do it in the morningbecause I like it.
(30:21):
I'm out with the sun in themorning and It's not coming from
a place of, I got to go fullthrottle, 10, 000 miles per
hour.
And if I am sweating andexhausted, I got a great workout
that it's an entire, not onlymental shift, but your body,
again, it keeps the score.
It reflects that and your gutand your vagus nerve that is
(30:45):
always communicating betweenyour gut and your brain.
It reacts.
to that type of lifestyleaccordingly.
And so if you're prioritizingall of that really hard workouts
and exercise all the time you'renot going to prioritize.
Digestion, how can you, how canyour body do that?
But in the same notion, I don'tfeel fragile.
(31:06):
Like I used to, the strengthtraining is really powerful.
Like your muscle compositionincreases muscles and
metabolically active organs.
So I feel stronger than I everhad in my life.
It's like working smarter, notharder.
I think that is one of the mostinstrumental ways that I have
kept myself healthy in theselast couple years and not
(31:28):
overtraining but still pushingmyself like where needed more
with more intentionalitymaintaining a lot of the foods
and like sometimes I need agentle reminder to if I'm
starting to eat a lot of thesame foods over and over again,
just Little gentle swaps, evenstill for myself and it is okay
to be lazy.
(31:48):
So sometimes I buy the choppedvegetables already chopped
because I worked that whole dayor had an exam that night.
There's nothing wrong with that.
I don't have to go and buyeverything like right out of my
friend's garden, you know, inWisconsin or something.
I'm in Chicago for reference,but it's okay to get some of
(32:10):
those.
more ready prepared meals and itdoesn't have to be pretty.
It doesn't have to always beInstagrammable.
And that was another rabbit holethat's easy to go down.
That like every meal has to bethis food porn essentially and
look like the most dramaticthing ever.
You see that all over socialmedia.
And those are a lot of theaccounts that gain the most
(32:32):
traction.
But sometimes The best, mostnourishing, filling meals can be
quite ugly, but taste amazing.
They look like slop.
They look like slop.
So just being okay with that andjust rotating out small foods.
One of my favorite foods is theAeroFarms micro greens because
you don't have to wash them atall.
And it's just pure laziness.
(32:53):
Like I go in, I grab a handfuland all of a sudden I added
greens onto every plate withintwo seconds.
And so it just doesn't have tobe.
Complicated.
I think those are the biggestthings.
And then also symptoms.
Are your body's way ofcommunicating with you.
Your body has no other way totalk to you.
(33:15):
And I actually look now at anytype of symptom.
I, I take this moment to listento it and not in an obsessive
way, but instead of taking theAdvil to shut it down, or
instead of let me just runthrough it, let me just push
past it.
Let me just take Excedrin forthis migraine.
(33:36):
I'm very pro medicine if youneed it, of course, that's in no
way saying don't do that.
But it also was like, hey, maybemy body needs a little bit of
rest right now.
And I find with autoimmuneissues, It's a lot of
suppression and it's a lot ofjust hustling and pushing
through and you can developimmense mental strength, but
(33:59):
still listen to your body.
It's, you're not choosing one orthe other lane.
And so I think that's also keptme healthy in these last couple
of years of just knowing when topull back on the reins a little
bit, loosen up, sleep in.
It's okay.
That's so normal.
And then I'd say Protein likeanimal protein.
(34:22):
I wasn't eating any of it whenyou and I started working
together and there was so muchmisinformation I see that all
the time for women now.
There's two ends of the proteinworld that i'm seeing where it's
in everything like protein waterand protein bars And I'm like,
okay, that is very differentmicro nutrients than a grass
(34:43):
finished, you know, raisedpaddle or bison.
And these are meats that I neverever ate because I thought that
they were bad for me and raisemy cholesterol, but like they're
filled with zinc and Millenniumand omega three is that it's
really hard to get in just likebig raw salads.
And so adding real animal foods,not just, you know, protein bars
(35:06):
and powders has been one of themost instrumental things I think
has actually moved the needlethe most in my health.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
I love that.
So it's like you're listening toyour body.
You're using symptoms as a cueto prevent you from backsliding
so far back into symptoms.
You're finding sustainable, easyways to nourish yourself and not
overcomplicating it where Everymeal has to be Instagrammable or
(35:35):
anything of that nature.
And, you know, not overcomplicating.
And I feel like that's thebiggest kind of underlying
message is like, it doesn't haveto be Hard, which makes it
almost seem too easy, right?
Right.
Yeah.
But it's not, you know, if youcan truly address your symptoms,
(35:56):
then it shouldn't, it has to besustainable.
And if it's so restrictive andso challenging to maintain,
you'll never be able to beconsistent with it.
So consistency is kind of whatwe're going for.
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Absolutely.
And.
You know, I do.
I want to be a mom one day.
So, I've been thinking aboutthis.
What can I do for my kids tomaybe try to prevent some of
these health issues that I wastold by physicians I'd have to
live with for the rest of mylife?
And It really is like justteaching them basic cooking
skills like propping them up Isee you posting this sometimes
(36:33):
on your instagram like whereyour Kids will be just kind of
propped up at the counter withyou They see you they watch you
doing this and getting active inthe kitchen and I think it's
even more than just sitting downAt meals with them.
It's like actually getting theminvolved in like picking it out
either at the store or at thefarmer's market and having that
(36:54):
conversation of what it's doingto your heart, your brain, your
skin.
And so they don't have to undo alot of things in their twenties
or in their thirties.
Like a lot of what we had to dotogether was undoing,
unraveling, relearning, It wouldbe great if you could start a
little bit from scratch and justnot it's more about building
(37:18):
with kids.
And so I think like just lookingforward, that's what I would do
more with my future family.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Which is amazing because yeah, they learned kids
are watching every single thingthat you do, whether you like
it.
Or not.
And, you know, some meals youmake are a total flop and nobody
eats it, but most of the timeit's okay.
Yeah.
It's it's exposure is kind ofthe biggest thing, but I would,
at least what I've noticed withmy own kids is they, Although
(37:48):
maybe they might not eat it orthrow it on the floor.
Eventually they'll try somethingand maybe not the first time,
but the more that you get theminvolved, the more willing they
are to try something.
So like we went to the farmer'smarket, we go almost every
weekend and there's a guy that Ibuy mushrooms from now.
(38:09):
They know the mushroom guy andthey're way more likely to eat a
mushroom because they know, Theywere involved in the process,
you know, and it's yeah, thattakes time, but it's worth it.
So
Speaker 4 (38:21):
it goes back into playing into that autonomy
factor.
Like you're giving them thatautonomy and they feel a part of
that process rather than youjust projecting what you want
them to eat on their plate.
So yeah, that's instrumental.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Okay.
Well, this has been amazing.
I think it's just going to be soinsightful for people to hear
your journey and that it'spossible, especially if you've
tried so many things, any lastminute thoughts, words of
wisdom, advice, et cetera, thatyou would give to somebody
listening to this thinking maybeLike that they relate to you a
(38:55):
lot or how nice for her, that'snot going to be the case for me.
Maybe some of I, I liked whatyou said about mindset, how it
is like, Oh, you know, it's notjust that you have a bad
attitude.
But someone may be strugglingwith like the thought of that
they could actually find relieffrom really severe symptoms.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
You're your own best advocate and nobody can tell you
what to do and you have everyright to shop for the dietician
or the practitioner that worksfor you.
And I always say that.
So interview people, see whojives with your personality.
What style of practice?
I think if I could give someadvice in that realm, a group
(39:37):
that actually is going to checkin on you because it's not a one
and done.
This is progress over time, soif you're looking for a
practitioner to be your ally andhave your back, you know,
looking for somebody that'sgoing to be with you through the
journey, and it is a journey, itis not a one and done
appointment, so it Again, takingadvantage of having your own
(40:00):
back, being your own bestadvocate, shopping for the right
care team that works for you andunderstanding it's going to be a
journey.
That's my biggest advice, butit's doable.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
I love that.
Well, because this is called thelove your gut podcast.
What is one way that you'regoing to love your gut today or
this week?
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Okay, I've been very into this Atlantic Seafarm
Seaweed all the time.
Okay.
But, like a little, it'sfermented, so it's really good
for your gut.
But, one little serving of ithas 300 percent of the
recommended daily value ofiodine.
Or the minimum, I should say.
Amazing.
And iodine is one that we don'ttalk about often, but it's so
(40:41):
good for your thyroid and yourmetabolism.
And Thanks to you.
I'm learning that, you know,minerals are often depleted in
our soils and how we're growingour foods, but the ocean it's so
pretty rich in it.
So getting it from seavegetables is a great one.
And I've.
Really made it a mission tocontinue adding that to my diet
now.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Okay, I'm gonna have to check that out Atlantic
Farms.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay, I'm gonna check it out.
Well, thanks so much for joiningus Tell everybody where they can
find you learn about you, etc.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
I have an Instagram account With some free
information and also you canjust get to know me and my tone
a little bit So that's just canedietetics, and i'm so excited.
Hopefully I get to meet some ofyou Yeah,
Speaker 3 (41:26):
well, thanks so much for joining us and thanks
everybody for tuning in
Speaker (41:31):
I'm giving you a thumbs up because you just finished
another episode of the love yourgut podcast.
I am so excited because blackFriday is just around the
corner.
And honestly, Thanksgiving andblack Friday are some of my
favorite days of the year.
The buzz on Instagram has beenwild with questions about our
black Friday specials.
And guess what?
(41:51):
The answer is a resounding yes.
So make sure that you're part ofour email list to be the very
first in the know about ourfantastic.
Black Friday deals on HTMA orhair mineral testing.
You do not want to miss out onthese gems.
I promise the link to join ouremail list is in the show notes
below.
And as always remember that whenyou love your gut, it'll love
(42:13):
you back.
And that's what we're all about.
Welcome to the Love Your Gut Podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Heather Finley, registereddietitian and gut health
specialist.
I understand the frustration ofdealing with GI issues because
I've been there and I spent overtwo decades searching for
answers for my own gut issues ofconstipation, bloating, and
stomach pain.
I've dedicated my life tounderstanding and solving my own
(00:24):
gut issues.
And now I'm here to guide you.
On this podcast, I'll help youidentify the true root causes of
your discomfort.
So you can finally ditch yoursymptoms for good.
My goal is to empower you withthe knowledge and tools you need
so that you can love your gutand it will love you right back.
So if you're ready to learn alot, gain a deeper understanding
(00:46):
of your gut and find lastingrelief.
You are in the right place.
Welcome to the love your gutpodcast.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Welcome back to the next episode of the love your
gut podcast.
So excited to be here withSamantha Cain.
She is a registered dietitian.
She is actually a former clientand now business owner, and
really excited to talk to hertoday about her philosophy of
nutrition, her journey with herown GI and C.
Skin issues and just someinsights she has about nutrition
(01:21):
and kind of this like debatebetween conventional and
functional world and kind ofwhere she's landed herself.
So Samantha, welcome.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And Heather, I have to say you have a great podcast
voice.
You just turn that on.
I loved that.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Well, thank you.
Okay, well, let's just get rightinto it.
So I'd love for you to justshare with the listeners who you
are, a little bit about yourstory and you know, you're a
business owner now you went toNYU actually, and the thing that
I forgot to mention, Samanthaactually worked in our program
as well.
So she's a former client.
Turned actually employee thatworked for me for about two
(02:01):
years before she did herdietetic internship.
So we've had quite thelongstanding relationship.
And it's been fun to watch yourjourney, but I know your journey
was full of ups and downs withsome of the struggles that you
had.
So give us just kind of thebackstory of like how you got to
where you are now.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
You just can't get rid of me.
You've really been with methrough a lot of different life
stages here.
But definitely it, this has beena long journey and it started
from when I was very young andit took me a long time to
actually be able to put all ofthe pieces together.
So I was actually just laughingat your post the other day when
(02:41):
you said, how are all my type Aoverachiever athletes doing with
their gut and hormones?
Only until very recently andstarting in your program was I
able to put those piecestogether with my lifestyle and
how that was impacting my gutand autoimmune disease
ultimately.
So it really just started.
I grew up on an ultra processedfood diet.
(03:02):
Like I'm not exaggerating fromage five to the moment I went
off to college at 18.
I started my day with pancakesand high fructose corn syrup.
Flattered in them every singlemorning.
And I was a classical ballerina.
I did that five to six days aweek.
(03:23):
There were no off seasons.
And then when I went off tocollege, there was just a lot of
talk about dieting and differenttypes of foods.
Big raw salads were very in,going vegan, cutting out food
groups.
So me and my friends we triedall the things and I never just
developed those cooking skillsfrom a young age.
(03:45):
And there was no access to it aswell in college.
And my GI issues, the chronicbloating and constipation just
kept magnifying with time.
It, I had a great life.
It was just always lingering inthe background and things really
started to change when thingsmigrated to my skin.
(04:07):
So it was not only just thischronic bloating and
constipation to the point whereI would look almost six months
pregnant at night and couldbarely button my pants.
My skin now was having thesemassive welts, head to toe,
truly.
And it was humiliating.
People would ask me on thestreet if I was contagious.
And so I started going throughthe traditional medical route.
(04:31):
And physicians, you know, at thevery beginning for dermatology
refused to run a biopsy on me.
And I worked in health insuranceat the time, and I understood
that the payment models werechanging.
So that essentially incentivizedphysicians not to run tests
because it saved them money intheir bottom line.
(04:52):
And so it took me three doctorsjust to get some basic biopsies
done on my skin.
And then in traditionalmedicine, I was handed a guy
that said, cut out all thesefoods, go low FODMAP, you're
probably lactose intolerant,maybe try cutting out gluten.
Good luck.
And it sent me down this spiralof food fear, and my weight
(05:16):
started to fluctuate as wellbecause I just started seeing
food in such a mathematical typemindset.
So the next step in my journeywas the more functional medicine
route, and I really felt likethey were speaking my language
of, let's get to the root.
Like, why are you having thisbloating?
Why are you having all theseskin rashes?
What is really going on?
(05:38):
I was eventually diagnosed witha rare autoimmune skin disease
called PLC as well as gut tapepsoriasis.
And then irritable bowelsyndrome, which is not
autoimmune.
And from there, they did bloodtesting of food sensitivity
analysis.
I mean, Heather, as you know,everything comes out positive.
I was allergic to everything,apparently, or intolerant to it.
(06:01):
So for everything from superhealthy foods like eggs to, you
know, random ones like oxtailshowed up.
I've never eaten oxtail in mylife.
So I was like, I don't know whythat's on here.
And the fact that was even onthere is wild.
It was very strange.
So I developed just a lot offood fears and was on such a
(06:22):
restrictive diet, a lot ofsupplements and my symptoms, the
skin actually did ebb and flowduring that time for the first
time ever, which was wonderful.
But yeah, my, my gut was justdisastrous.
So I saw you on social media andyou were The stop of saying,
Hey, you've done functionalmedicine.
(06:43):
Have you done the traditionalroute?
You know, let's chat.
You spoke directly to mysymptoms and I quite frankly,
like you and your team didchange my outlook on nutrition,
health.
I have not had a severe skinflare up in literally since
working with you.
So I'm approaching five years.
(07:04):
And my gut, I feel like I canmanage it.
So like it, it does sometimesflare in times of stress, but I
now have the toolkit to manageit.
And I really thank you and yourprogram for helping me with
that.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
That's amazing.
It's already been five years.
I feel like the time has blownso fast because I so distinctly
remember talking to you and youwere in school going back to
study, to be a dietician becauseyou wanted to, you change your
career, which is so admirable.
And so life was a little bitstressful when we first talked.
(07:39):
And I remember you thinking do Ihave time to do this?
I remember you asking me, well,what elimination diet are we
going to have to do?
And I told you we're not doingan elimination diet.
And so walk us through maybesome of the things And I'm just
curious about what kind of fearsyou had because you really had
done your due diligence on theconventional side and the
(08:00):
functional side in some sense.
I mean, all the foodsensitivity, testing, et cetera,
probably created a lot of foodfear with you.
Did you do supplement protocolsand such with the functional
doctor as well?
And then, yeah, what led you tokeep reaching out to?
Potentially find relief, eventhough you tried two very
(08:20):
drastically different things.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
I just felt I don't take no for an answer.
And I was like, there's no way Ihave to live like this.
My world was getting smaller.
I was more fearful to go out torestaurants.
I didn't know what seasonings oroils they would be using.
And during I'm a millennial.
So growing up during that timeof veganism, the China study
came out with Dr.
Colin T.
(08:44):
Campbell.
And things have that narrativearound meat.
protein complex carbohydrates.
There was so much conflictinginformation.
And so when the functionalmedicine group came in and that
food sensitivity came in andsort of confirmed for me a lot
of that that notion that thosefoods should be pulled out in
(09:07):
order to heal, that they'reinflammatory.
That was what I came to you withthat this list of foods in my
mind that created just bySociety by proven in research
studies proven by thesefunctional medicine
practitioners That these arefoods that are causing the
problem But what changed in yourprogram that narrative that
(09:29):
changes the foods aren't causingthe problem It's you have an
unhealthy unbalanced ecosystemright now You from head to toe,
starting with maybe digestiveenzymes in your mouth to the
stomach acid production as youkeep moving down the body.
That chain of events.
I never put that together untilI was in your program.
(09:51):
So switching that narrative ofHey, food's not causing food
might be, you know, flaring somethings right now, but it's
really about the ecosystem ofyour gut.
And that was just a completechange in conversation and how
we as a team approach approachthe problem.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah.
And so tell us kind of a littlebit more about maybe the
biggest, maybe that was yourbiggest light bulb moment of
okay, food is flaring mysymptoms, but now I can actually
address something that will makefood, not flare my symptoms or
what did that?
It wasn't a linear process.
(10:31):
We're not going to beat aroundthe bush.
It's not You know, you starteddoing something one week and you
know, in a week, your symptomswere gone.
So walk us through what thatprocess was like, maybe some of
the setbacks that you had thatwere challenging and you know,
some of the light bulb momentsthat you had along the way.
So many,
Speaker 4 (10:49):
where
Speaker 3 (10:49):
do I
Speaker 4 (10:50):
start with this one?
I think one, you were for thefirst time you were honest with
me and you said, listen, You'vehad GI issues for about a
decade, 10 years.
I'd say for every year, it wouldbe one month of healing.
And when you said that to me, Iactually felt hope because I
(11:10):
felt like that was so honestwhere sometimes we're thrown all
these supplements and it's youshould feel better immediately.
And you were very honest upfrontof saying, This is going to be a
little bit up and down, but I doexpect in about 10 months for
you to really start to see somechange.
And that made me feel like itwas possible, and that growth
would happen, and that way too,like four months in when maybe I
(11:34):
had like some flares or somesymptoms coming back, I didn't
panic that time.
I was like, this is normal.
Heather said it was normal.
This is part of the process.
That was a big light bulbmoment.
I couldn't undo my diet and mystress and my overtraining for
almost 20 years of my life inthree months.
(11:56):
It just was never going tohappen, but it made me empowered
and felt like I could take backthis narrative and actually
change incrementally.
And so what you did, that was alittle bit different than other
teams was Put that out frontdidn't guarantee like any
massive promises in two weeksand six weeks But then I still
(12:16):
had your support the entiretime.
So the chats in between ourappointments That even like on
the messenger just knowing thatyour team was there was
incredibly helpful Another biglight bulb moment.
I would say was the additivefood approach.
So that was the first timesaying You Hey, we want to
(12:38):
expand your diet.
There's a lot of things thatyou're not eating that are
protective of not only the gut,but your entire immune system,
thereby impacting your skin andhow you respond to environmental
toxins.
Like you want to create a coatof armor for your body.
And I never looked at myself asstrong.
Like when I would go tofunctional medicine or
(12:59):
traditional medicine, I was sofragile.
I felt so fragile.
If there was anything I did outof.
that lane, I would be just in aposition where I wouldn't heal,
where you flipped again, thatnarrative of you can come from a
place of strength with this,we're going to build a coat of
armor around your body.
And you do that by adding foods,not taking foods away.
(13:20):
There were new foods.
I was trying that I never hadbefore in my life, like the
fermented foods that wasn't.
A normal part or regular part ofmy diet.
I didn't know the differencebetween all the different types
of breads that were out thereLike sourdough was a whole new
world for me and what that meantAnd the last thing that I think
(13:40):
was a big light bulb moment andthis one, this is a tough one.
I had an ego, like truly beinghonest, like coming in, I was
like, I ain't healthy.
I eat healthy.
I had a victim mindset of youcan't tell me what to do.
And if you actually think aboutthis, when we're kids, one of
the first ways we express ourdominance, our autonomy, our
(14:04):
independence Is through food,and we start to refuse food, you
know, from a very young age.
We drive our parents.
Absolutely not.
I believe that never reallyleaves.
And so when I or anybody issitting on the other side of the
table, you know, talking to aclinician or a dietitian about
food.
(14:25):
It's very natural to become soprotective of that and a little
bit of lying to yourself.
And I was lying to myself.
I didn't really ever take anhonest inventory about what I
was eating.
And again, it was more aboutwhat I was not eating.
It was more about what I was noteating.
And so once I got very radicallyhonest with myself and didn't
(14:48):
feel threatened by you and yourteam, that you were going to
take something away and you werereally adding, it all just
started coming together.
And.
Within about that timeline thatyou said, it took a probably
about a year.
I really did.
Like I can, my life is muchbigger.
It's not smaller.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Gosh, that is so good.
And that is such a good point.
Especially, you know, I have asix year old and a two year old
you're right.
I mean, they express theirautonomy by well, I'm not going
to eat that or I'm going tothrow this on the floor.
You know, we're a little bitpast the throwing food on the
floor stage, at least for now.
But Yeah, it's so true.
And we all do have an ego aboutour food because it's so
(15:30):
personal.
And I think that's what we oftenforget.
I remember when you were workingon our team and every year we
have a holiday workshop for ourclients.
And one thing that I soappreciated about you was that
We were preparing for thisholiday workshop and we each
took a different part of it youknow, how to kind of navigate
(15:51):
the holidays, how to navigatefood, how to navigate symptoms,
et cetera.
And one of the things that youdid that we still have available
to our clients is like all thedifferent cultural recipes.
Like you brought in recipes fromdifferent cultures that
incorporated different types offoods.
And I think that's just such agood reminder of Nutrition is
(16:13):
not just about food.
It's also.
personal, you know, there arefamily recipes that are a lot
more than really what the foodis itself.
Like it's about the memory.
There's you know, we share somuch with other people around
food.
So when you go to somebody andyou get a list of foods that you
(16:34):
can't eat, you're not justtaking away someone's autonomy.
You're also potentially takingaway moments and memories that
they may have.
I'm thinking about a client thatwe have right now who was
working with somebody and shewas going on a trip for two
weeks and she asked theprovider, well, what should I do
about food?
(16:55):
And he said, well, you shouldpack your food for two weeks.
And she's I am absolutely notgoing to do that.
But, and that's like such a goodexample of that's just not
sustainable and that's not goingto work.
But I just appreciate that you,you brought that up because
you're right.
Like food and nutrition is somuch more than just eat this,
(17:15):
not that.
I know we were talking about ita little bit before we started
recording.
So we can go off on that tangentif you want, but there can be
kind of a stigma of being adietician.
I know my husband gets this alot where.
People at his work will hearlike he's married to a dietitian
and they'll be like, Oh, I'm sosorry.
You must just eat salad all thetime.
(17:36):
And he's no, we actually don't.
Like I eat better than anyperson I've ever met.
And I think you were sharingtoo, your fiance has had.
A similar experience with justlike some of the stigmas, I
think that come with like foodnutrition.
We think that nutrition is aboutwhat we shouldn't eat and it
(17:56):
really is about what we get toenjoy and get to nourish
ourselves with.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah, and it's almost like when you go to see a
physician or a doctor or adietitian, like you expect them
to just go right for cutting outabstaining.
And that's a sign ofperseverance and strength.
But like the true strength isagain, how you can integrate
things into your everyday Life.
(18:27):
And I will say that's been oneof the greatest joys.
Like my fiance is not in thehealthcare field.
He's in a completely differentindustry works in more corporate
job.
And.
With that, he's been so open andexcited and it's more like, Hey,
did you remember to add theturmeric into my eggs this
morning?
Or Oh, I could taste that.
(18:48):
We forgot the cinnamon in ourcoffee.
Like these are additive,wonderful things.
And using herbs and spices isnot only what adds flavor, but
it's medicinal.
And I remember one time heactually said to me, he was
like, I assumed herbs and spiceswere bad for me because it
tastes so good.
And I, it's again, wow, no,these foods taste good too
(19:11):
because they are medicinal forus.
They heal us, they protect usfrom chronic preventable
illnesses.
And so using just a little bit.
Most days over time andreframing that again is what
really protects your gut andultimately the rest of your
immune system.
So that's been reallyeyeopening.
(19:32):
And then watching him to flipthat narrative when he's talking
with people, you tend to get twodifferent responses.
Oh my God, you have the cheatcode at life.
I'm so lucky you are marrying adietitian or the other way
around.
The big raw salads.
That is a very American thing.
My sister lives in Tokyo and mybrother lives in Paris.
(19:53):
Both for work.
And my sister, one of the firstthings she said when she moved
to Tokyo, which they have someof the lowest rates of
autoimmune disease and chronicGI issues.
One of the things she said isone at every primary care
appointment, they run a GI mapschool test.
I was blown away annually.
And she was so upset by it, bythe way.
She was like, this isdisgusting.
(20:15):
I was like, I immediately textedyou.
I was like, Japan just does thisautomatically.
But she also said they don'tconsume these massive smoothies
with protein powders or theselarge raw salads.
Like everything is cooked.
There's a lot of small amountsof fermented foods spread out
(20:36):
throughout the day.
But they also, they have desserteverywhere.
They have bakeries and pastrieseverywhere, but it's because
their relationship with food andcooking is so much more
nourishing and starts at a veryyoung age, it's not restrictive.
They're able to moderate in, ina different way.
And it's really such afascinating culture.
(20:58):
And she said, it's talking to mehere and watching this journey
and then moving to Tokyo andexperience what that actually
looks like in real life whenit's on such a societal level.
It's just, she said, it'sfascinating going back and forth
between the U S and Tokyo.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
My brother has said similar things.
So my brother.
is in the air force and he livesin Italy just for context.
And he's lived there for almosttwo or yeah, about two years
now.
And interestingly enough, youknow, this is a guy that's never
had GI issues, like never had,you know, any of the either of
(21:38):
us have dealt with.
And now he told me last time hewas in the U S he's Heather,
it's so crazy.
Every time I come to the U S Iget sick.
He's like I throw up.
Because he's so used to eating awide variety of foods.
He's so used to the town that helives in.
He can walk and buy fresh foodevery day.
(21:59):
And you know, they lack nothing.
Like He eats like you said, it'snot like he's eating the super
restrictive diet.
He's eating really deliciousItalian food.
And loving it and it, but it'sall fresh and it's also enjoyed
very slowly.
And with people and it just,again, kind of reiterates the
(22:22):
whole, it's so much more.
than just what the food is.
There's the experience of it.
There's the whole meal hygienething which we talk about a lot
in our program, like chewingyour food, taking your time, et
cetera.
Like all of these things reallymatter.
So much and when I actually thatwas a
Speaker 4 (22:40):
roadblock for me when I first joined your program and
you started talking about that Iwas upset.
I was like, No, this is I am inso much pain.
I look, I was so humiliatedabout how I looked with my skin
and you were like, telling me tochew my food and I was like, Oh,
come on.
That's not work.
Yeah.
And it was a Really importantpiece to the puzzle.
(23:01):
I can confidently say that.
What was it?
Everything did it solve all myproblems?
No, of course not.
It was still like a 10 monthlong journey and I was in flows
in that.
But it is the way that you sitdown and approach your food
actually activates yourdigestive system and your brain
and your gut constantly are incommunication with each other.
(23:24):
And without those moments, it'slike you start eating and
nothing was activated in orderto properly both digest and
absorb your nutrients.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
A hundred percent.
So let's shift gears just alittle bit.
You know, you worked with us ata really interesting time.
Like I mentioned, you were onyour way back to school, had
just left your career in, it wasin healthcare, but in a
different side of healthcare.
And Then worked on our team fortwo years as a health coach.
(23:54):
So you did a lot of kind of thefood and symptom log reviews for
our clients, which was amazing.
And then right when you startedyour dietetic internship
obviously you left our team togo focus on that.
And now you are starting abusiness.
And so you've had this crazykind of, you know, Five year
(24:15):
journey of, you know, going fromreally debilitating GI and skin
issues to then working on ourteam to then doing your dietetic
internship, becoming adietitian, and now starting a
business.
How has all of this, so like allthe things that you've struggled
with and learned impacted yourwork?
(24:37):
As a dietitian and like how youthink about food, how you
approach food with your clients,how you navigate your life now
and all of that.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah, there's so much to unpack here.
I'm so grateful for thecorporate experience that I had
because I have a lot of clientsnow that I see that are coming
from that corporate world whereThey might not have a lot of
autonomy over their own scheduleor are relying on certain foods
around them.
That's just available to themand maybe have uncomfortable
(25:11):
kitchen skills.
And so, because I came fromthat, I understand and.
Can speak their language and sayit is possible to still make it
all work, even with yourschedule that you have going on
right now.
But I can also say it's soloaded, all of those
experiences, all of thesetbacks.
(25:32):
As corny as it sounds, puttingit all together is what led me
here.
So it's just like having agreater amount of empathy and
looking at it from a holisticlens.
It is absolutely never ever theone thing.
So I will never be able to helpsomebody in one session and say,
this is why your gut is a trainwreck.
(25:55):
This is why your skin isflaring.
The body is an entire system.
So maybe some stress and traumathat you had as a young adult
and then lack of cooking skillsand having that relationship
with it and your family incombination with.
Diet culture and dieting incombination of just never
learning, never having thisinformation that those initial
(26:19):
sessions that you have with theclient to actually get to know
them on a deeper level is theonly way to actually put what is
a holistic plan together.
The biggest thing too, I thinkthe brain is so involved in this
and that took a long time toclick It's not I don't love the
word mindset because that mademe feel like it was my attitude
(26:40):
but like actually talking aboutthe way our brains Learn and
seek out new information.
It's so true that it's a lotharder from a neuroscience
standpoint to actually removesomething out of your life.
It is a lot easier to add and tobuild.
And you introduced me to habitstacking.
(27:01):
And so I think.
With that understanding of thescience and the mechanisms of it
and being able to build newhabits incrementally over time,
I think all of these experienceexperiences just in general show
that different things need tocome together in order for it to
work.
And then leveraging that part ofyour brain of how can we keep
(27:22):
adding things and buildingthings in a way that's Long term
and sustainable, essentially.
So those I think are like thebiggest things of putting all of
those worlds together and justbeing able to have better
empathy with clients at theother end of the table and
making it actually work in theirlife.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
I think it's so cool to have watched your journey and
I'm sure anybody listening tothis right now, you know, they
hear, okay, this was five yearsago that you started this
journey and you haven't had amajor flare since then, but your
life doesn't feel restricted.
So walk us through maybe whatcan you do now that you couldn't
(28:01):
do before?
And What are the biggest needlemovers for you?
Not that they're going to be thesame as the person listening to
this episode, but I think italso is important to recognize
that gut health, skin health,all the things that people see
us for energy, hormones,whatever it is.
It's not like you complete theprotocol.
And then you're just done andyou never have to do anything
(28:23):
again.
Like the fact that you've hadfive years of, you know, pretty
unremarkable symptom flares,despite being in grad school,
doing an internship, gettingengaged, planning a wedding,
starting a business, like a lotof stressful things, you know,
is pretty remarkable and an, anda testament to the fact that you
(28:44):
likely are.
Putting in the work and beingconsistent with things that make
you feel good.
And so would you be willing toshare what are the biggest, most
important things for you thatyou think kind of keep
everything stable and notflaring?
And then on the other side,like, how is your life better
(29:05):
now that you aren't dealing withflares, even amongst having to
maybe be consistent with somethings that you weren't
consistent with before?
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah, I think intentionality and pause as
again, some of this soundsridiculous, but the reason I
brought up at the beginning ofthis, that I was a ballerina
first, you know, six days a weekwith no off seasons up until I
was 18.
That's an integral part of thestory.
And so again, going back topicking and choosing what you
(29:39):
choose to partake in.
And that goes for exercise andactivity.
Like it's not my personality isa little go big or go home.
And I was doing that witheverything.
And with exercise, I was a bigone.
So it was like five to six daysa week, sometimes like running
hit training.
If I wasn't in the gym for, andit wasn't even from a body
(30:00):
perspective.
I just thought that's what you.
did.
I thought that's what was best.
And it was true, justmisinformation.
And so one of the biggest thingsthat has helped kept me healthy
is transitioning to veryintentional strength training a
couple days a week.
I add some cardio at the end.
It makes me feel really good.
And I do it in the morningbecause I like it.
(30:21):
I'm out with the sun in themorning and It's not coming from
a place of, I got to go fullthrottle, 10, 000 miles per
hour.
And if I am sweating andexhausted, I got a great workout
that it's an entire, not onlymental shift, but your body,
again, it keeps the score.
It reflects that and your gutand your vagus nerve that is
(30:45):
always communicating betweenyour gut and your brain.
It reacts.
to that type of lifestyleaccordingly.
And so if you're prioritizingall of that really hard workouts
and exercise all the time you'renot going to prioritize.
Digestion, how can you, how canyour body do that?
But in the same notion, I don'tfeel fragile.
(31:06):
Like I used to, the strengthtraining is really powerful.
Like your muscle compositionincreases muscles and
metabolically active organs.
So I feel stronger than I everhad in my life.
It's like working smarter, notharder.
I think that is one of the mostinstrumental ways that I have
kept myself healthy in theselast couple years and not
(31:28):
overtraining but still pushingmyself like where needed more
with more intentionalitymaintaining a lot of the foods
and like sometimes I need agentle reminder to if I'm
starting to eat a lot of thesame foods over and over again,
just Little gentle swaps, evenstill for myself and it is okay
to be lazy.
(31:48):
So sometimes I buy the choppedvegetables already chopped
because I worked that whole dayor had an exam that night.
There's nothing wrong with that.
I don't have to go and buyeverything like right out of my
friend's garden, you know, inWisconsin or something.
I'm in Chicago for reference,but it's okay to get some of
(32:10):
those.
more ready prepared meals and itdoesn't have to be pretty.
It doesn't have to always beInstagrammable.
And that was another rabbit holethat's easy to go down.
That like every meal has to bethis food porn essentially and
look like the most dramaticthing ever.
You see that all over socialmedia.
And those are a lot of theaccounts that gain the most
(32:32):
traction.
But sometimes The best, mostnourishing, filling meals can be
quite ugly, but taste amazing.
They look like slop.
They look like slop.
So just being okay with that andjust rotating out small foods.
One of my favorite foods is theAeroFarms micro greens because
you don't have to wash them atall.
And it's just pure laziness.
(32:53):
Like I go in, I grab a handfuland all of a sudden I added
greens onto every plate withintwo seconds.
And so it just doesn't have tobe.
Complicated.
I think those are the biggestthings.
And then also symptoms.
Are your body's way ofcommunicating with you.
Your body has no other way totalk to you.
(33:15):
And I actually look now at anytype of symptom.
I, I take this moment to listento it and not in an obsessive
way, but instead of taking theAdvil to shut it down, or
instead of let me just runthrough it, let me just push
past it.
Let me just take Excedrin forthis migraine.
(33:36):
I'm very pro medicine if youneed it, of course, that's in no
way saying don't do that.
But it also was like, hey, maybemy body needs a little bit of
rest right now.
And I find with autoimmuneissues, It's a lot of
suppression and it's a lot ofjust hustling and pushing
through and you can developimmense mental strength, but
(33:59):
still listen to your body.
It's, you're not choosing one orthe other lane.
And so I think that's also keptme healthy in these last couple
of years of just knowing when topull back on the reins a little
bit, loosen up, sleep in.
It's okay.
That's so normal.
And then I'd say Protein likeanimal protein.
(34:22):
I wasn't eating any of it whenyou and I started working
together and there was so muchmisinformation I see that all
the time for women now.
There's two ends of the proteinworld that i'm seeing where it's
in everything like protein waterand protein bars And I'm like,
okay, that is very differentmicro nutrients than a grass
(34:43):
finished, you know, raisedpaddle or bison.
And these are meats that I neverever ate because I thought that
they were bad for me and raisemy cholesterol, but like they're
filled with zinc and Millenniumand omega three is that it's
really hard to get in just likebig raw salads.
And so adding real animal foods,not just, you know, protein bars
(35:06):
and powders has been one of themost instrumental things I think
has actually moved the needlethe most in my health.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
I love that.
So it's like you're listening toyour body.
You're using symptoms as a cueto prevent you from backsliding
so far back into symptoms.
You're finding sustainable, easyways to nourish yourself and not
overcomplicating it where Everymeal has to be Instagrammable or
(35:35):
anything of that nature.
And, you know, not overcomplicating.
And I feel like that's thebiggest kind of underlying
message is like, it doesn't haveto be Hard, which makes it
almost seem too easy, right?
Right.
Yeah.
But it's not, you know, if youcan truly address your symptoms,
(35:56):
then it shouldn't, it has to besustainable.
And if it's so restrictive andso challenging to maintain,
you'll never be able to beconsistent with it.
So consistency is kind of whatwe're going for.
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Absolutely.
And.
You know, I do.
I want to be a mom one day.
So, I've been thinking aboutthis.
What can I do for my kids tomaybe try to prevent some of
these health issues that I wastold by physicians I'd have to
live with for the rest of mylife?
And It really is like justteaching them basic cooking
skills like propping them up Isee you posting this sometimes
(36:33):
on your instagram like whereyour Kids will be just kind of
propped up at the counter withyou They see you they watch you
doing this and getting active inthe kitchen and I think it's
even more than just sitting downAt meals with them.
It's like actually getting theminvolved in like picking it out
either at the store or at thefarmer's market and having that
(36:54):
conversation of what it's doingto your heart, your brain, your
skin.
And so they don't have to undo alot of things in their twenties
or in their thirties.
Like a lot of what we had to dotogether was undoing,
unraveling, relearning, It wouldbe great if you could start a
little bit from scratch and justnot it's more about building
(37:18):
with kids.
And so I think like just lookingforward, that's what I would do
more with my future family.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Which is amazing because yeah, they learned kids
are watching every single thingthat you do, whether you like
it.
Or not.
And, you know, some meals youmake are a total flop and nobody
eats it, but most of the timeit's okay.
Yeah.
It's it's exposure is kind ofthe biggest thing, but I would,
at least what I've noticed withmy own kids is they, Although
(37:48):
maybe they might not eat it orthrow it on the floor.
Eventually they'll try somethingand maybe not the first time,
but the more that you get theminvolved, the more willing they
are to try something.
So like we went to the farmer'smarket, we go almost every
weekend and there's a guy that Ibuy mushrooms from now.
(38:09):
They know the mushroom guy andthey're way more likely to eat a
mushroom because they know, Theywere involved in the process,
you know, and it's yeah, thattakes time, but it's worth it.
So
Speaker 4 (38:21):
it goes back into playing into that autonomy
factor.
Like you're giving them thatautonomy and they feel a part of
that process rather than youjust projecting what you want
them to eat on their plate.
So yeah, that's instrumental.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Okay.
Well, this has been amazing.
I think it's just going to be soinsightful for people to hear
your journey and that it'spossible, especially if you've
tried so many things, any lastminute thoughts, words of
wisdom, advice, et cetera, thatyou would give to somebody
listening to this thinking maybeLike that they relate to you a
(38:55):
lot or how nice for her, that'snot going to be the case for me.
Maybe some of I, I liked whatyou said about mindset, how it
is like, Oh, you know, it's notjust that you have a bad
attitude.
But someone may be strugglingwith like the thought of that
they could actually find relieffrom really severe symptoms.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
You're your own best advocate and nobody can tell you
what to do and you have everyright to shop for the dietician
or the practitioner that worksfor you.
And I always say that.
So interview people, see whojives with your personality.
What style of practice?
I think if I could give someadvice in that realm, a group
(39:37):
that actually is going to checkin on you because it's not a one
and done.
This is progress over time, soif you're looking for a
practitioner to be your ally andhave your back, you know,
looking for somebody that'sgoing to be with you through the
journey, and it is a journey, itis not a one and done
appointment, so it Again, takingadvantage of having your own
(40:00):
back, being your own bestadvocate, shopping for the right
care team that works for you andunderstanding it's going to be a
journey.
That's my biggest advice, butit's doable.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
I love that.
Well, because this is called thelove your gut podcast.
What is one way that you'regoing to love your gut today or
this week?
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Okay, I've been very into this Atlantic Seafarm
Seaweed all the time.
Okay.
But, like a little, it'sfermented, so it's really good
for your gut.
But, one little serving of ithas 300 percent of the
recommended daily value ofiodine.
Or the minimum, I should say.
Amazing.
And iodine is one that we don'ttalk about often, but it's so
(40:41):
good for your thyroid and yourmetabolism.
And Thanks to you.
I'm learning that, you know,minerals are often depleted in
our soils and how we're growingour foods, but the ocean it's so
pretty rich in it.
So getting it from seavegetables is a great one.
And I've.
Really made it a mission tocontinue adding that to my diet
now.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Okay, I'm gonna have to check that out Atlantic
Farms.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay, I'm gonna check it out.
Well, thanks so much for joiningus Tell everybody where they can
find you learn about you, etc.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
I have an Instagram account With some free
information and also you canjust get to know me and my tone
a little bit So that's just canedietetics, and i'm so excited.
Hopefully I get to meet some ofyou Yeah,
Speaker 3 (41:26):
well, thanks so much for joining us and thanks
everybody for tuning in
Speaker (41:31):
I'm giving you a thumbs up because you just finished
another episode of the love yourgut podcast.
I am so excited because blackFriday is just around the
corner.
And honestly, Thanksgiving andblack Friday are some of my
favorite days of the year.
The buzz on Instagram has beenwild with questions about our
black Friday specials.
And guess what?
(41:51):
The answer is a resounding yes.
So make sure that you're part ofour email list to be the very
first in the know about ourfantastic.
Black Friday deals on HTMA orhair mineral testing.
You do not want to miss out onthese gems.
I promise the link to join ouremail list is in the show notes
below.
And as always remember that whenyou love your gut, it'll love
(42:13):
you back.
And that's what we're all about.
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