August 12, 2025 • 42 mins
If you’ve ever been told your only options for a thyroid condition are medication, surgery, radioactive iodine, or a restrictive diet… this conversation will open your eyes to what’s possible when you focus on root causes.
I’m joined by Dr. Eric Osansky, a chiropractor, clinical nutritionist, and certified functional medicine practitioner who reversed his own Graves disease naturally and has been helping clients do the same since 2009. We’re sharing both sides of the thyroid spectrum: Dr. Eric’s journey with hyperthyroidism and my own with Hashimoto’s, plus the powerful gut–thyroid connection that changed everything for us.
You’ll hear:
- Why gut health is central to thyroid autoimmunity
- The most common gut-related triggers for hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism
- How herbs like bugleweed and motherwort can support hyperthyroid symptoms
- The role of stress, adrenal health, and lifestyle foundations in recovery
- How functional testing (like stool testing, adrenal testing, and HTMA) can uncover the real drivers of your symptoms
Listen to part 1 of this episode on Dr. Eric's podcast here!
Connect with Dr. Eric
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Heather Finley (00:03):
Welcome to the Love Your Gut Podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Heather Finley, registereddietitian and gut health
specialist.
I understand the frustration ofdealing with GI issues because
I've been there and I spent overtwo decades searching for
answers for my own gut issues ofconstipation, bloating, and
stomach pain.
I've dedicated my life tounderstanding and solving my own
(00:24):
gut issues.
And now I'm here to guide you.
On this podcast, I'll help youidentify the true root causes of
your discomfort.
So you can finally ditch yoursymptoms for good.
My goal is to empower you withthe knowledge and tools you need
so that you can love your gutand it will love you right back.
So if you're ready to learn alot, gain a deeper understanding
(00:46):
of your gut and find lastingrelief.
You are in the right place.
Welcome to the love your gutpodcast.
Welcome back to the next episodeof the Love Your Gut podcast.
I am so excited to be here todaywith Dr.
Eric, and if you're jumping overfor part two from his podcast,
(01:07):
welcome.
And if you miss part one, jumpon over.
But Dr.
Eric is a chiropractor, aclinical nutritionist, and a
certified functional medicinepractitioner.
Who has been helping people withthyroid and autoimmune thyroid
conditions since 2009.
He is the author of the Book'sNatural Treatment Solutions for
Hyperthyroidism and GravesDisease.
(01:29):
The Hyperthyroid Healing Dietand Hashimoto's Triggers is the
host of the Save My Thyroidpodcast.
And the creator of the HealthyGut Healthy Thyroid Newsletter,
Dr.
Eric was personally diagnosedwith Graves' Disease.
After seeing how well a naturaltreatment approach helped his
condition, he began helpingothers with thyroid and
(01:49):
autoimmune thyroid conditions.
So welcome to the show.
Yeah.
Well, um, thank you so much Dr.
Heather.
Great to chat with you again.
Yeah.
Well, so the name of yourpodcast is Save My Thyroid,
which is a pretty boldstatement.
Uh, and you have a very popularpodcast in the thyroid space.
So why was saving your thyroidso important to you personally?
(02:14):
Yeah, so great question.
So, my personal journey relatesto having Graves Disease, and
that's how I started doing whatI'm doing today and what led to
me writing, uh, the booksrelated to, um, hyperthyroidism
and, and the one on Hashimoto's.
Uh, just, uh.
SI was, I was diagnosed withGraves back in 2008.
(02:39):
At that time, I didn't reallyknow anything about Grave or
didn't know much about Graves.
My background's a chiropractor,so I had a traditional
chiropractic practice for aboutseven and a half years.
And, um, and I, as achiropractor, I would always
attend for my continuingeducation credits.
I would always attendnutritional seminars, functional
(02:59):
medicine seminars, neverattended chiropractic seminars
where we learned technique.
Um, so it was always nutritionor functional medicine.
And there were a couple of.
Functional endocrinologyseminars I attended.
And when I attended those, theydid speak very little about
graves.
Most of it was of course, um,like diabetes and Hashimoto's,
(03:21):
but they, they did talk a littlebit about a natural approach for
hyperthyroidism and Gravesdisease.
So, I mean, little did I knowthat one day I would need that
information, but when I wasdiagnosed with Graves, uh, I.
I knew I was going to at leastgive it a try.
I, I was a little bit skepticaleven with my background.
'cause again, I didn't knowanybody who had graves.
(03:43):
Um, but sure enough I started,um, say just, uh, changing my
diet and lifestyle and did sometesting and, and took some
supplements.
And, uh, and yeah, long storyshort, I restored my health and
I mean.
The purpose of the term Save MyThyroid.
(04:05):
I mean, really it applies toboth Graves and Hashimoto's.
Um, with graves, so manyendocrinologists recommend
radioactive iodine that destroysthe cells of the thyroid or a
thyroid thyroidectomy, thyroidsurgery, which completely
removes the thyroid.
And so that's, um, but even withHashimoto's at Hashimoto's.
(04:27):
You get the damage from theimmune system taking place to
the thyroid gland.
And most endocrinologist orregular medical doctors, they
just give thyroid hormonereplacement, which again,
there's the time and place forthat.
But if that's all they do andthey're not addressing
autoimmune component, thenyou're just getting further
damage to the thyroid.
So, so again, either way,whether you have hyperthyroidism
(04:49):
Graves disease or.
Hypothyroidism, Hashimoto's.
You know, I think it's, um, it'simportant to at least attempt to
save your thyroid.
Yeah.
And you, you kind of mentionedthis a little bit, that
Hashimoto's is talked about alot more.
Even hypothyroidism is morecommon, commonly spoken about.
(05:10):
I know, even on my podcast.
So for someone listening, youknow, they may not even really
know what Graves disease is.
Can you give us just a little.
Download of what the, thedifference, like kind of
distinguishing factors betweenHashimoto's and hypothyroidism
and Graves disease andhyperthyroidism.
(05:31):
Yeah, no, definitely.
I think that's a great idea.
So.
So again, your, most of yourlisteners are familiar with
hypothyroidism, so that's whensomeone has low thyroid
hormones.
So the main thyroid hormones, atleast the ones we could test for
at a lab, are T three, T four,and then there's what's called
TSH, which is thyroidstimulating hormone, which is a
(05:51):
pituitary hormone thatcommunicates to the thyroid
gland.
And in the case ofhypothyroidism.
You typically have elevatedlevels of TSH and the reason for
that is because when the thyroidhormone levels are low, either
they might be within the labrange but less than optimal or
they might be overtly low.
But either way, you're gettingmore TSH production because
(06:15):
pituitary is telling the thyroidgland, Hey, we need more thyroid
hormone.
And so you present whathypothyroidism you have,
typically an elevated TSH, oragain, it might be.
Higher than optimal.
It might be like a 3.5, which iswithin most lab reference
ranges, but greater than optimalthyroid hormone levels on the
lower side or overtly low.
(06:35):
So hyperthyroidism is theopposite.
That's when you have too muchthyroid hormone.
So T three, T four will beelevated.
And as a result, the pituitarygland is telling the thyroid
gland, Hey, we don't need anymore thyroid hormone.
Let's stop the production.
So you see low T, SH, many timesundetectable, TSH, like less
than 0.01, for example.
(06:57):
And so that's really thedifference between hypo and
hyper, at least on a blood test.
I mean, symptom-wise.
Um.
I mean, when I dealt with Graveswith hyperthyroidism, everything
is sped up at the metabolism.
So I was having increasedresting heart rate and
palpitations and tremors and um,looser stools are common, and
(07:17):
anxiety and insomnia are some ofthe more common symptoms, hair
loss.
Common with both hypo and hyper.
But um, and then hypo of coursethe opposite.
You get the slower metabolism.
So fatigue is very common.
Weight gain is common.
Actually, actually, I didn'tmention weight loss.
I lost 42 pounds when I dealtwith.
With hyperthyroidism, but weightgain with hypo coldness.
(07:41):
Um, the, uh, the brain fog,constipation, uh, again, brittle
hair, sometimes hair loss aswell.
Uh, and then, and we could talkmore about the symptoms, but as
far as like Graves, Hashimoto's,so.
Most cases of hypothyroidism areautoimmune.
And same thing with mosthyperthyroid conditions are
(08:03):
autoimmune.
So the, so we got Hashimoto'swhere you have certain
autoantibodies, and with gravesyou have different
autoantibodies.
So graves, you have what'scalled thyroid stimulating
immunoglobulins, um, which are,is the type of TSH receptor
antibody.
And what happens is that th the,the thyroid stimulating
(08:23):
immunoglobulins, they bind to,or, or attack, stimulate the TSH
receptors of the thyroid gland.
And that what causes, that'swhat causes the elevation of
thyroid hormone.
And then with Hashimoto's, youhave.
Antibodies such as thyroidglobulin, antibodies, um, and or
thyroid peroxidase or TPOantibodies and the antibodies
(08:46):
themselves aren't causing damageand more of a consequence.
But when you have thoseantibodies, that means that the
immune system is damaging thethyroid gland and, um, which
could lead to hypothyroidism.
But in a nutshell, thatessentially is the difference
between hypothyroidism,hyperthyroidism, graves disease,
Hashimotos.
Yeah, that's super helpful to,to understand.
(09:08):
And one thing that I've heardfrom patients and read, online
and doing research and, justtalking to people is that Graves
disease often hits pretty fastand people will often say like,
I feel like my body's kind ofspinning out of control.
You mentioned like anxiety orrapid heart rate, feeling,
insomnia.
Everything just feels fast.
(09:30):
What was.
Like being inside your body kindof at the height of your
symptoms or what led you to goget testing finally and figure
out what was going on?
Yeah, great question.
So I was, so late 2007, Istarted to, I was.
(09:50):
180 2.
My weight was 182 pounds.
Ideally, I would like to havebeen, and still even now, like 1
65, 1 70.
And so I was trying to loseweight.
So I started, um, exercisingintensely.
Just, uh, too intensely.
I was, I was dieting, prettymuch dieting, detoxifying,
(10:12):
exercising vigorously, and uh,everything was going to plan
according to plan.
I was losing weight.
Um, and, uh, again, eventuallythe, the weight loss became
extreme.
But even then I didn't reallycatch on.
I just thought everything wasjust because of what I was
doing.
'cause it, I mean, it wasn'tlike I was losing 10 pounds per
(10:32):
week, but I mean, just, I was.
Losing weight and had increasedappetite, but I wasn't eating
as, uh, a lot.
I was restricting, um, calories,which I shouldn't have been
doing.
But, uh, then one day I waswalking around a retail store, a
Sam's Club specifically, andthey had a blood pressure
machine and I, um.
(10:53):
Took my blood pressure at one ofthose sit down machines and my
blood pressure was fine, but myheart rate was about 90.
And I was wondering, well, maybeit's just because I'm walking
around.
And so I took my heart rate thenext few days and it was
anywhere between 90 and one 10beats per minute.
And so I'm like, okay, this isnot normal.
And um, and then I was.
(11:15):
Kind of put in the piecestogether.
But again, at that point Ireally didn't have much
experience with hyperthyroidism.
So I just, um, went to a primarycare doctor and he just ran some
blood tests and diagnosed mewith hyperthyroidism.
And, uh, and then eventually Isaw an endocrinologist who, um,
(11:37):
tested the antibodies.
And, I mean, knowing what I knownow, if I had to do it all over
again, I could have done allthat on my own, but.
Just, again, just didn't havethe know, I mean, again, just
wanted to get that, that theso-called expert exper, um,
opinion when it comes to is, youknow, the hyperthyroidism
graves.
And, and I'm glad I did.
I mean, it's, you know, just,um, at, at, like I said, at that
(11:59):
point, I didn't work with peoplewith thyroid conditions, let
alone hyperthyroidism.
I just again, practicedchiropractic and just adjusted,
um, patients.
So, um, but yeah, that's how myjourney began.
That's how I found out.
That I had hyperthyroidism asfar as like how I, how it felt,
kind of like just being in the,you know, that state.
(12:21):
Um, like I said before I wasdiagnosed, you would thi, you
would've thought that I would'veknown because again, a lot of
people, you know, they feel theanxiety, they feel certain
symptoms.
Um, but I honestly didn't, youknow, before taking the heart, I
mean, once I took the restingheart rate, I became more aware.
You know, just coincidentally,I, I, I started noticing the
(12:43):
palpitations.
Maybe I was experiencing thembefore that, but just wasn't
really paying.
I mean, you know, quite frankly,it was so long ago, I forgot,
but after.
After I got diagnosed, I startedrealizing I was having the
palpitations, or again, beingmore aware of it, the weight
loss, you know, I realized thatat least in part was due to the
(13:04):
hyperthyroidism and not solelydue to, you know, just, um, the
diet and exercise.
But, um, but yeah, I mean it's,um, it's, it's hard to explain.
Um.
Just, uh, like when you'redealing with hypo, you know,
it's, it might be easier withthe, and, and maybe even that, I
mean, you could, you could, Ididn't ask you that question
(13:26):
when you were on my podcast,like how specifically you felt,
but again, I've also worked witha lot of hypo patients, so I
kind of have an idea.
And with hyper, it's just, Imean, and everybody's different.
Not everybody experiences the,um, exactly the same.
And, um, I mean, the anxiety Idon't think was crazy high with
me, where it's like, somepeople, it's like really
(13:47):
extreme, uh, with me.
I think a lot of it was justhonestly just also a state of
disbelief.
Like just, um, as, and maybethat was the case with you when
you got your diagnosis,although.
I know you said on when Iinterviewed you that you went to
a few different doctors, so youin a way was probably more
relief maybe.
Yeah, for sure.
That you got the diagnosis withme.
(14:09):
Uh, you know, I wasn't expectingto get diagnosed with
hyperthyroidism le and, andGraves disease, so it was more
like a, a shock.
So now that you know what, youknow, and you've seen probably
thousands of patients at thispoint, what is one thing that
you wish more practitionersunderstood or that you
understood at the time about howthe gut plays into thyroid
(14:30):
autoimmunity, especially, youknow, related to graves?
Yeah, great question.
I mean, yeah, I, I, I wish thatI knew.
J just simply the relationshipthat most of the immune system
cells were located in the gutand just ha you know, the, the
impact of having that increasein intestinal permeability.
(14:52):
And I guess how common it is.
I mean, this was going back.
I mean, we're talking about 2008into 2009, so now everybody has
heard of leaky gut, you know,increasing intestinal
permeability.
And we know, and there's somany, I mean, there's the, the
stool tests now are definitelybetter than the stool tests from
(15:12):
years ago, and a lot morepractitioners are doing them.
And so, I mean, just overall, Iwish I had greater knowledge of
how big of a factor the, the gutplayed.
In autoimmune conditions.
Um, just it beca again, justwasn't, I mean, that information
wasn't, I mean, not to say itwasn't available, but now of
(15:35):
course also it's good and badwith everything on the internet.
You could find everything, whichnot everything's reliable, but
back then there weren't podcaststhere.
I'm trying to think, was thereYouTube in 2008?
Um, I think, think so.
My my maybe.
But, um, but you know, again, itstill wasn't what it was today
and you gotta be careful even ofcourse today, but.
You know, as a practitioner Ilearned some of that, like some
(15:57):
basic endocrinology goingthrough chiropractic school and
basic gut health information.
But again, they didn't reallyget into that relationship.
So, um, so yeah, I wish when itcomes specifically to the gut, I
wish I, I did have moreknowledge, um, back then.
But, you know, again, justthat's what any practice, you
(16:18):
just, uh, evolve and you, youknow, over, over the years you
learn more and more.
Jumping in really quick to tellyou about an exciting offer that
we have.
I know so many of you have foundthis podcast to be really
helpful on your gut healingjourney, and my goal is to help
as many people find relief fromtheir GI symptoms as I can.
(16:40):
And you are a part of thatmission.
So when you leave a rating andreview on this show, more people
can find it.
What I would love for you to dois.
Go and leave a five star ratingand review and share why you
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(17:01):
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Yeah.
So on those, on that same line,like how do you figure out
(17:23):
what's actually drivingsomeone's graves?
Uh, how do you decide, you know,whether to start with gut
nervous system, thyroid, nnutri, like what's kind of your
process that you go through withyour clients?
Yeah, so I mean, the first thingwith Graves is, and even with
other types of hyperthyroidism,is safe symptom management.
(17:48):
So we wanna do more than justmanage symptoms.
But it's a little bit scary whensomeone has a resting heart rate
and triple digits and mm-hmm.
You know, they, you might'veheard of like the term thyroid
storm where, you know, canbecome a life-threatening
situation if the heart ratebecomes really high and un
uncontrollable and then theyends up at the the er.
(18:11):
So we want to try to preventthat from happening as much as
we can.
So if I'm working with someone,they might already be taking.
Antithyroid medication.
Um, I chose not to.
I took the herbs bugleweed aswell as mother wart.
Bugleweed is an herb withantithyroid properties.
Doesn't work for everybody, andthat's something I learned.
(18:31):
When I was attending thosefunctional endocrinology
seminars, so I didn't know if itwould work with me, but, but
again, it did.
And so if someone's taking themeds and it's helping and
they're comfortable taking themeds, so that's fine.
They could stay on the meds andwe could still try to address
the cost of the problem.
Um, if they're not taking themeds, we definitely wanted to do
something, whether it's theBugleweed or um, something else
(18:53):
naturally to try to lower thosethyroid hormone levels and keep
them safe.
Um.
Then we wanna incorporate thefoundations, and I think really
with any health condition,graves, Hashimoto's, other
conditions that don't relate tothe thyroid and immune system.
We want to have people eat a.
(19:14):
Healthy diet, whole healthyfoods and, uh, drink purified
water or, or spring water of aglass bottle.
So another area of controversy,which water should we, I think
we all could agree, avoid thetop water, the water from the
plastic bottles.
Um, stress.
So we spoke about stress when,um, you are on my podcast, uh,
relationship between, you know,stress and, and, um, Hashimoto's
(19:38):
and stress in the gut.
And, um, so just trying to dothings to reduce stressors and
probably more importantly,improve stress handling and, um.
Sleep, of course, is important.
Another foundation, and a lot ofpeople have sleep issues and
sometimes it's intentionalbecause people are staying up
late and, you know, just surfingthe, the internet or on their
(20:01):
iPhone in bed.
But, um, but other times peoplejust can't fall asleep or they
wake up in the middle of thenight.
So trying to, um, help peopleget more sleep, uh, just uh.
You know, basic things, at leastinitially, like to reduce some
someone's toxic burden.
So those are, uh, so thefoundations are important.
(20:21):
Uh, and then, I mean, I do liketo do some testing.
I don't go crazy with thetesting in my practice, and not
everybody gets the same testing.
So, uh, I mean, I docomprehensive blood testing on,
so that's something I do oneverybody.
And even that depends on theper, like if I give.
Like what I think is importantand then those that I think
(20:43):
maybe could be helpful, butmaybe more optional, um, in case
if someone is paying out ofpocket.
But, you know, of course I wantto do comprehensive thyroid
testing, looking at antibodiesand um, you know, the basics
like a CBC with differentialcomprehensive metabolic panel,
lipid panel vitamin Z.
(21:03):
Healthy vitamin D level isimportant for healthy immune
system.
Um, I know you mentioned ironpanel when you are on my
podcast, so I do like a fulliron panel, you know, as well.
I do, uh, homocysteine, CRP, soagain do do a decent amount of
blood testing and then, uh, andblood sugar.
Look at blood sugar markers aswell.
(21:25):
Uh, and then I do like adrenaltesting, so adrenal testing.
You know, I don't know.
We didn't talk about really, wespoke about some other tests,
uh, like hair testing and spokeabout gut testing and, and you
know, definitely I like, I likethose tests as well, but adrenal
testing, some practitioners justassume that everybody has
compromised adrenals.
(21:46):
Some practitioners test for it.
I don't think there's really aright or wrong.
I like testing just because.
I guess there's a few reasons.
So one, probably the biggestreason is when I dealt with
Graves, I was in denial thatstress was a factor.
You know, I, I, I knew, I mean,I knew stress impacted, like,
(22:06):
not that I thought I was stressfree, but I just thought I was
naturally good at handling thestress, and if I didn't see how
bad my adrenals looked.
I wouldn't have made the effort,I don't think, to improve my
stress handling.
Just not back, not only backthen, but just up until now too.
Just making a, you know, justblocking out time for stress
management, um, on a dailybasis.
(22:29):
And so I do like adrenaltesting.
I did back then, I did adrenalsaliva test, and I, I still do
that too now.
There's.
Dried urine test, like the Dutchtest, um, that also looks at
circadian rhythm of cortisol.
So sometimes we'll do, you knowthat, that test.
Um, and you know, we, we spoke alittle bit about hair testing
on, um, on my podcast when Iinterviewed you and.
(22:51):
So I, I, which is again acontroversial test, but I do
like hair testing.
I like stool testing.
Um, again, I don't do stooltesting on everybody, but I do a
decent amount of them andsometimes I'll do organic acid
testing.
So, so really it depends on alsothe health history, but I do
like to do testing rather thanguessing.
Um, and so sometimes you have toguess because the tests aren't
(23:14):
perfect, but if you can dotesting and see what's on the
testing, and then based on.
The test, we giverecommendations.
Um, so, uh, again, I'll givesome general support like
probiotics and omegas and, um, Imean, again, like sometimes
selenium, but selenium couldalso look at things like hair
(23:34):
testing or if someone wants todo like RBC, selenium and the
blood, I mean, that's also anoption.
But vitamin Z we want to testfor, uh, again, h Pyl, we spoke
about h pylori.
Which we could definitely talkmore about'cause we didn't, we
spoke a little bit about HP Liumparasites, but I think that's a
really big factor with Gravesand Hashimoto's.
(23:55):
I mean, in the re research as arelationship, it's something I
see a lot in practice as far asa potential trigger.
Um, but yeah, that's my, my, somy, a summary of the process
start with symptom managementfoundations.
Testing, you know, to, to try tofind triggers underlying
imbalances and obviously addressthose triggers and underlying
(24:17):
imbalances.
And that, and again, that allties into the gut too, because I
mean, the, the foundations willhelp with gut healing.
Doing some of the testing, youknow, could help with gut heal
healing as well, depending onwhat we find.
Yeah, well you kind of answeredthis, but my next question was
gonna be what gut relatedtriggers do you see?
You know, usually you see thingslike h pylori and parasites,
(24:41):
online about Graves Disease andHashimoto's.
So would you say that that issomething that you commonly see,
or is there, are there otherthings on gut related tests that
you tend to find?
Those are the two.
As far as like trigger triggers,I mean, we de, de de.
I definitely see other thingson.
The stool test as you do too.
But I don't know if you'd saythey're triggers, they're, I
(25:03):
mean, they could give signslike, you know, someone has
like, I see a lot of.
Depressed or lower pancreaticelastase on the stool test,
which I wouldn't say that's atrigger, but that's a sign of
other things.
Again, very common with h pylorito see like that low pancreatic
elastase.
And, um, you know, we see a lotof, uh, just general dysbiosis.
(25:26):
Like, uh, if, like, again,there's different tests.
Uh, like I, I do GI maps, butalso I've done like the GI
effects and, you know, um.
Again, a lot of good companies,but streptococcus, for example,
is something I see a lot of, butI wouldn't say it's a trigger,
it's just uh, um, I think evenin some healthy people we would
(25:46):
see that even though it's redflagged and it's under the
opportunistic and, but again, tome it's even if someone is in
remission, it's not uncommon tosee some imbalances on a stool
test.
So I would say H plar is a bigone.
Um, definitely parasites couldbe a factor as well and a
potential trigger.
Um, candida overgrowth, I meanstool, in my experience, it's
(26:11):
not the best test to pick upcandida.
Yeah.
But, and candida, I don't know,even if you would call like a
trigger trigger, but it canaffect, the gut, can increase
permeability of the gut.
Um, so an organic acid test isactually really good for picking
up, uh, yeast overgrowth.
Uh, we spoke, uh, when you areon my podcast about sibo, small
intestinal bacteria overgrowth,which again, I don't know if you
(26:34):
really would consider a trigger,but it can affect.
It could cause leaky gut too.
So if you have sibo, you haveyeast overgrowth, um, one or
both of those.
Uh, and if you don't addressthose, it's gonna be hard to
heal due to the impact they haveon, on the gut.
Uh, but yeah, I would say thoseare, I mean there's, in the
research, in the literature,there's uh, a yersinia entera,
(26:58):
which is, uh, a bacteria, and Ican't say I see a lot of that on
the stool test.
Um.
I know I had Dr.
Nicholas Hedberg on the pod onmy podcast, and he mentioned
like blood testing is actuallybetter for Yesinia.
I guess the only concern aboutthat is same thing with h
Pylori, if you have it, is itlike a current problem or is it
(27:20):
a past problem?
'cause the antibodies could lastmm-hmm.
For a while in the blood, butoccurrence to the research, that
could be a factor, you know, aswell.
But yeah, as far as the gutgoes, I mean, those are probably
some of the, the more common gutmicrobes, gut, gut infections
that we would see.
So what is the typical timelinethat you see?
(27:40):
You asked me a similar questionon your podcast, and I'm curious
just with Graves specifically,you know, if someone's taking
antithyroid medication or takingthe herbs, like you mentioned,
whichever route they choose, howlong does it take typically?
To kind of stabilize thingswhere you start to see the
resting heart rate come down,you start to see just
(28:01):
improvement a little bit insymptoms or even just
improvement in labs kind ofnormalizing.
Um, or do you feel like it's allover the place?
I mean, it is all, excuse me, itis all over the place, but it,
it's, yeah, so it does depend onthe person, but I mean, it's not
uncommon to see, like, I do liketo see changes.
And how people feel within, Imean, sometimes we see it within
(28:25):
a few weeks, but it, it could bea few months.
I mean, when I dealt with Gravespersonally, and I took the
bugleweed, I noticed within thefirst month that it was working,
you know, even before doing thefirst blood test, I, I felt I
was able to measure my heartrate and the heart rate was
decreasing, and I, I startedwith Bugleweed.
(28:46):
But I was still havingpalpitations, so I added mother
wart and that helped with the,the palpitations.
Um, even further.
So symptom-wise, I mean, and ifsomeone's taking the meds, it,
it'll, it can work much quicker.
The, the problem with amedication in the world of
hyperthyroidism with antithyroidmedications such as methimazole
or propal uracil, which is PTU,is that side effects are very
(29:09):
common.
Um.
But they work, they so someonecould feel better quickly with
the meds if they do take it.
The herbs, if they work, theycould also, maybe not as
quickly, but within a few weeks.
Labs.
It depends.
I mean, again, it's notunreasonable to start seeing
some changes with the labs, likeeven the first test.
(29:31):
But it's, everybody's different.
Some, sometimes they'll take afew labs and one thing that's
very common with.
Hyperthyroidism, especiallyGraves, is that TSH will remain
undetectable usually for quite awhile.
So it's not uncommon for thlike, we'll see thyroid hormone
levels decreasing, and TSH isstaying where it is, um, for a
(29:53):
while, and it frustrates people.
But what I tell'em is as long asthe thyroid hormone levels
continue to decrease, again,eventually the TSH will start
increasing.
It might be three months, itmight be six months, it might be
longer.
But if we see the thyroidhormones trending in the right
direction, I wouldn't worryabout it.
Okay, and I think, a commonthing, and you, you mentioned
(30:17):
this at the beginning, is thatpeople are often told that they
kind of quote unquote, have nochoice and they need to have the
radioactive iodine or surgery.
And why do you think this haspushed so hard?
And what do people need tounderstand before they make that
kind of decision?
Yeah, I mean it's uh, there'sprobably a few reasons.
(30:41):
I mean, I think one reason is.
Endocrinologists feel morecomfortable dealing with
hypothyroidism thanhyperthyroidism because again,
there is that risk of a thyroidstorm or so.
You know, just, uh, just again,there's more, not that
hypothyroidism doesn't comewithout risks, but again, when
(31:02):
someone has elevated thyroidhormones, it's more risky.
So they feel it's easier tomanage.
Just get the radioactive iodinethyroid surgery, and we just put
the person on thyroid hormone.
And, and they'll live happilyever ha after, which doesn't of
course always happen, but that'swhat they're thinking.
And um, so that's one reason.
(31:22):
I mean, you know, is it profitalso?
I mean, it's hard.
You would hope that, would it bethe case, but I mean, by doing
that, uh, obviously there'sprofit with thyroid surgery.
Radioactive iodine, I don'tthink is that profitable.
But either way.
If someone becomes hypo, they dohave a lifetime thyroid patient
that they'll be managing and,and um, you know, with a thyroid
(31:45):
hormone replacement.
But, you know, again, you wouldlike to think that's not the
main reason.
And, and I, I think the mainreason is just because, again,
they're very nervous about thehyperthyroidism.
And I mean, some of them also,they'll, at least this is what I
hear.
I mean, when I dealt with my, Ijust went to the endocrinologist
one time when I dealt withGraves.
'cause I wasn't gonna follow herrecommendation.
(32:06):
So I just wanted to get.
Diagnosed and I got anultrasound and, um, and she
recomme recommended Antithyroidmedication.
She didn't push the radioactiveeye or thyroid surgery on me.
She just gave me medication,which I, I mentioned I didn't
take.
So I was like, uh, it's no usefor me seeing her.
But, but, um, whenendocrinologist, they, a lot of
them will give the antithyroidmedication and they'll tell
(32:30):
their patients that they can'ttake the medication for more
than.
A year and a half, two years.
'cause it'll damage their liver.
And it does, it can put stresson the liver.
So that's not, I mean, they'rebeing honest with that, but it's
not the case with everybody.
And so, um, I'm not, I'm notsaying people should be on the
(32:52):
medication long term, but ifit's, if choosing between long
term antithyroid medication,especially at lower doses, like
five milligrams of methol, 10milligrams of methimazole.
And then getting his thyroidremoved completely or ablated
with the radioactive iodine.
The research actually shows thattaking something like meth, like
(33:13):
low dose methimazole is safe forlike 10, 15 years or longer.
So it's not, I don't prefer that'cause that means that the
person, we haven't addressed thecause of the problem and they're
relying on antithyroidmedication, but.
That just goes back to thequestion why do some
endocrinologists recommend it?
Some of them aren't quick torecommend it, like some will
(33:34):
will recommend it prettyquickly.
But some will say, go, let's goon the meds for a year and a
half, two years.
Let's see if you get inremission.
And they're not doing anythingto improve the person's immune
system, so the person may,people, may time, will either
won't go into remission orrelapse.
But those are some of the commonreasons why endocrinologists are
hasty to recommend a radioactiveeye on thyroid surgery, or
(33:55):
again, maybe not hasty, some ofthem right off the bat, but a
year and a half, two yearslater, we'll recommend it even
when then it's not necessary.
Okay.
Yeah, that's super helpful.
In your opinion, what would yousay?
Is the number one thing that yousee people like holding people
back from getting better?
(34:15):
You've probably had clientswhere you're like, you should be
responding to this, or, youknow, maybe we're not seeing the
results that you want.
Is there one like common thingthat you think is a big barrier
to seeing the symptomimprovement that they wanna see?
Or even improvement on labs?
It's hard to pick one.
(34:37):
I mean, you know, if I had tolike pick one, I'd cheat a
little bit and say thefoundations, which include a few
different things.
Yeah, just, just notincorporating either, not.
Being strict enough with thediet.
And it's tricky.
'cause again, I nobody likesrestrictive diets.
And to me, if someone's gonna belike on an elimination type diet
(34:57):
or an autoimmune protocol, it'snot a long-term thing.
Um, but either way, and again,not that everybody needs to be
on like an a IP, like even paleois pretty healthy.
The the point is.
Some people have issues or havevery difficult time giving up
gluten, giving up other commonallergens, giving up, um, you
(35:19):
know, like, uh, fast food, justthings that they shouldn't be
eating.
So just eating whole healthyfoods for some people is a
challenge.
And then I, I'd say the, thetwo, I'll, I'll narrow it down
to two things, the diet and thestress.
If you're gonna say two, likethere are other things, but.
The stress a lot of times is, Iguess you could say overlooked,
(35:40):
like,'cause they, I mean, a lotof people do focus on the diet.
But overlook the stress.
And then of course, some peopleneglect the diet and also aren't
really focusing on the stress.
But again, I gave my story whereif I didn't see my adrenals, I
wouldn't, I also probablywould've not really focused on
stress management as much.
(36:00):
And so I, I think I see thatwhen I do like follow up
consults with, with patients,uh, you know, I find that, I
mean, some of them are blockingout time for stress management,
but some of them.
Aren't, or they just considerlike walking as stress
management, which is, I mean itis walk, but I think sometimes
people need to do more need.
They need to incorporate sometype of deep breathing, some
(36:22):
type of mind body medicine.
Totally.
Yeah.
Walking while listening to apodcast and you know, totally
distracting yourself, might notactually be.
Super stress reducing.
Depending on what you'relistening to.
You might need to walk and notlisten to something, listen to
the birds and yeah, I totallyget that.
So if someone just got diagnosedand is feeling, a little bit
(36:45):
overwhelmed, what is one thingthat you think they could do
this week and maybe the answer'skind of obvious to feel a little
bit more on the path that theyneed to be on.
Uh, yeah, I guess, uh, I guesswe kind of like going back to
like just, I mean, what canpeople do on their own?
(37:06):
They could change their diet andlifestyle.
That's, uh, and I won't saythat's the easiest thing, but
that's something that peoplecould do today or tomorrow, is
just, uh, clean up their diet.
Just with the stress management.
I would say, if we're gonnaagain, say one thing.
Block out five minutes per dayfor let's say just deep
(37:26):
breathing.
Um, and again, not that that'sgoing to reverse your.
Graves or Hashimoto's condition,but it's really about getting in
the, into the routine of stressmanagement and just, uh, trying
to incorporate it not just a fewdays a week because I mean,
which is still, which is great,but you know, there are a lot of
people that don't do, don't doanything from a stress
management perspective.
(37:46):
But then there are people thatsay, well, yeah, you know, I do
yoga maybe like twice a week andthat's it.
Um, which is great, but then notdoing it at all, but.
You know, just incorporate trustmanagement every single day.
So I would say take five minutesper day.
If you don't have five minutesper day, then you definitely
need to do this.
Um, so, uh, and then once you'redoing it for five minutes per
(38:09):
day, then you could graduallyincrease the duration.
Maybe some days you only do fiveminutes per day, but other days
you have a little bit more time,so you do 10, 15, 20 minutes per
day.
So, so that, again, the diet, Iwould say, if we had to make a
choice, yeah, I would probablysay diet, but.
It's hard to heal without, youknow, if you're in a fight or if
(38:29):
you're in fight or flight modeall the time and eating a
perfect diet, it's still gonnabe difficult to heal.
So I really do think they bothgo together.
And obviously the sleep, youknow, we could also say sleep,
but if you're eating well andyour stress is really under
control and managing it, thatthose two things will do wonders
for a lot of sleep issues.
Totally.
(38:50):
You mentioned adrenals and howyou wouldn't have necessarily
bought into stress being apiece, and we see that a lot
with our clients as well.
What's the most common adrenalpattern that you see?
Do you see people completelyflatlined to just burn out or do
you see the kind of the oppositecortisol curve that you should?
(39:11):
And the reason I ask is becauseonline right now there's this
huge trend of like.
Cortisol face and cortisoldrink, and everybody's talking
about cortisol and how you knowyour cortisol is actually too
high and all this stuff, and weactually see a lot of clients
that are just so burned out thattheir cortisol is actually just
completely flatlined.
(39:33):
So I'm curious what you see.
Yeah, I mean, I see a mix, butI, I tend to see more of what
you just said, and that was me.
When I dealt with graves, I, um,pretty much had like a flat line
cortisol, so definitely like lowin the morning, and it wasn't
high at night.
It was low.
Pretty much throughout the day.
My DHEA was low.
(39:53):
My secretary IGA was loweverything.
Um, so every, everything waslow.
And yeah, that's not the casewith everybody, but I'd say
that's more common.
We do, we do see some peoplewhere cortisol is elevated in
the morning and then I gottasee, you know, like, was it a
stressful morning or like, areyou having sleep issues?
And so there's, um.
(40:13):
Yeah.
So, and, and then yeah,sometimes we do see like low
cortisol in the mor, thatopposite pattern you mentioned
where cortisol is low in themorning, but then kind of spikes
up at night.
So yeah, we, we see a mixture ofthings, but I would say the flat
line is, is pretty common.
The low cor, and then the samething I mentioned that I had low
DHEA.
It's not everybody, but that'spretty common too.
(40:37):
This has been super helpful andI'm excited to share this
episode.
So last question before we wrapreal quick is because this is
called the Love Your Gutpodcast, what is your favorite
way, or what is one thing thatyou do to love your gut?
Uh, another challengingquestion.
One thing that I do to love mygut, um, oh boy.
(41:01):
Um, I.
I mean, I'll go back to thestress management just because
the impact that stress has onthe gut.
It, it's, um, again, stress hasnegative impact.
I mean, chronic stress has anegative impact everywhere.
But again, the, the stress, Ithink real,'cause I mentioned
how.
When I dealt with Graves again,I had that low secretary IGA and
(41:26):
um, and it stayed low for quitea while after a few retests and
eventually it did get, um, towhere it needed to be.
Um, probably need to retest itagain.
It's been a while since I did aretest and looked at what that
secretary IGA'cause.
Again, that's the one thingabout stress.
Is, I think I'm a lot better.
I know I'm a lot better when itcomes to stress management,
which has helped my thyroid, mygut, my immune system.
(41:48):
But it's always, I think, a workin progress.
So, um, so if I, again, diet ofcourse, is a, has played a big
role as well.
But if I had to choose onething, I'd, I'd also say the
stress is, is probably thebiggest factor or stress
handling them.
The improve stress handling, ummm-hmm is the one way I've
really helped to love my gut.
(42:10):
Love it.
Well, where can everybody findyou?
Um, with your podcast, website,all the things.
Yeah.
So my podcast, uh, save mythyroid.com.
Um, or just go see your favoritepodcast and type in Save My
Thyroid.
And, um, then I have threebooks.
Uh.
Natural treatment solutions forHyperthyroid and Graves Disease,
(42:32):
which is in its third edition,Hashimoto's Triggers and the
Hyperthyroid Healing Diet.
You could find those on Amazon.
And then my newsletter, uh,healthy Gut, healthy Thyroid,
um, and then you could checkthat out by visiting save my
thyroid.com/newsletter.
Awesome.
Well, thanks so much forjoining.
Thank you so much, Dr.
(42:52):
Heather.
Welcome to the Love Your Gut Podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Heather Finley, registereddietitian and gut health
specialist.
I understand the frustration ofdealing with GI issues because
I've been there and I spent overtwo decades searching for
answers for my own gut issues ofconstipation, bloating, and
stomach pain.
I've dedicated my life tounderstanding and solving my own
(00:24):
gut issues.
And now I'm here to guide you.
On this podcast, I'll help youidentify the true root causes of
your discomfort.
So you can finally ditch yoursymptoms for good.
My goal is to empower you withthe knowledge and tools you need
so that you can love your gutand it will love you right back.
So if you're ready to learn alot, gain a deeper understanding
(00:46):
of your gut and find lastingrelief.
You are in the right place.
Welcome to the love your gutpodcast.
Welcome back to the next episodeof the Love Your Gut podcast.
I am so excited to be here todaywith Dr.
Eric, and if you're jumping overfor part two from his podcast,
(01:07):
welcome.
And if you miss part one, jumpon over.
But Dr.
Eric is a chiropractor, aclinical nutritionist, and a
certified functional medicinepractitioner.
Who has been helping people withthyroid and autoimmune thyroid
conditions since 2009.
He is the author of the Book'sNatural Treatment Solutions for
Hyperthyroidism and GravesDisease.
(01:29):
The Hyperthyroid Healing Dietand Hashimoto's Triggers is the
host of the Save My Thyroidpodcast.
And the creator of the HealthyGut Healthy Thyroid Newsletter,
Dr.
Eric was personally diagnosedwith Graves' Disease.
After seeing how well a naturaltreatment approach helped his
condition, he began helpingothers with thyroid and
(01:49):
autoimmune thyroid conditions.
So welcome to the show.
Yeah.
Well, um, thank you so much Dr.
Heather.
Great to chat with you again.
Yeah.
Well, so the name of yourpodcast is Save My Thyroid,
which is a pretty boldstatement.
Uh, and you have a very popularpodcast in the thyroid space.
So why was saving your thyroidso important to you personally?
(02:14):
Yeah, so great question.
So, my personal journey relatesto having Graves Disease, and
that's how I started doing whatI'm doing today and what led to
me writing, uh, the booksrelated to, um, hyperthyroidism
and, and the one on Hashimoto's.
Uh, just, uh.
SI was, I was diagnosed withGraves back in 2008.
(02:39):
At that time, I didn't reallyknow anything about Grave or
didn't know much about Graves.
My background's a chiropractor,so I had a traditional
chiropractic practice for aboutseven and a half years.
And, um, and I, as achiropractor, I would always
attend for my continuingeducation credits.
I would always attendnutritional seminars, functional
(02:59):
medicine seminars, neverattended chiropractic seminars
where we learned technique.
Um, so it was always nutritionor functional medicine.
And there were a couple of.
Functional endocrinologyseminars I attended.
And when I attended those, theydid speak very little about
graves.
Most of it was of course, um,like diabetes and Hashimoto's,
(03:21):
but they, they did talk a littlebit about a natural approach for
hyperthyroidism and Gravesdisease.
So, I mean, little did I knowthat one day I would need that
information, but when I wasdiagnosed with Graves, uh, I.
I knew I was going to at leastgive it a try.
I, I was a little bit skepticaleven with my background.
'cause again, I didn't knowanybody who had graves.
(03:43):
Um, but sure enough I started,um, say just, uh, changing my
diet and lifestyle and did sometesting and, and took some
supplements.
And, uh, and yeah, long storyshort, I restored my health and
I mean.
The purpose of the term Save MyThyroid.
(04:05):
I mean, really it applies toboth Graves and Hashimoto's.
Um, with graves, so manyendocrinologists recommend
radioactive iodine that destroysthe cells of the thyroid or a
thyroid thyroidectomy, thyroidsurgery, which completely
removes the thyroid.
And so that's, um, but even withHashimoto's at Hashimoto's.
(04:27):
You get the damage from theimmune system taking place to
the thyroid gland.
And most endocrinologist orregular medical doctors, they
just give thyroid hormonereplacement, which again,
there's the time and place forthat.
But if that's all they do andthey're not addressing
autoimmune component, thenyou're just getting further
damage to the thyroid.
So, so again, either way,whether you have hyperthyroidism
(04:49):
Graves disease or.
Hypothyroidism, Hashimoto's.
You know, I think it's, um, it'simportant to at least attempt to
save your thyroid.
Yeah.
And you, you kind of mentionedthis a little bit, that
Hashimoto's is talked about alot more.
Even hypothyroidism is morecommon, commonly spoken about.
(05:10):
I know, even on my podcast.
So for someone listening, youknow, they may not even really
know what Graves disease is.
Can you give us just a little.
Download of what the, thedifference, like kind of
distinguishing factors betweenHashimoto's and hypothyroidism
and Graves disease andhyperthyroidism.
(05:31):
Yeah, no, definitely.
I think that's a great idea.
So.
So again, your, most of yourlisteners are familiar with
hypothyroidism, so that's whensomeone has low thyroid
hormones.
So the main thyroid hormones, atleast the ones we could test for
at a lab, are T three, T four,and then there's what's called
TSH, which is thyroidstimulating hormone, which is a
(05:51):
pituitary hormone thatcommunicates to the thyroid
gland.
And in the case ofhypothyroidism.
You typically have elevatedlevels of TSH and the reason for
that is because when the thyroidhormone levels are low, either
they might be within the labrange but less than optimal or
they might be overtly low.
But either way, you're gettingmore TSH production because
(06:15):
pituitary is telling the thyroidgland, Hey, we need more thyroid
hormone.
And so you present whathypothyroidism you have,
typically an elevated TSH, oragain, it might be.
Higher than optimal.
It might be like a 3.5, which iswithin most lab reference
ranges, but greater than optimalthyroid hormone levels on the
lower side or overtly low.
(06:35):
So hyperthyroidism is theopposite.
That's when you have too muchthyroid hormone.
So T three, T four will beelevated.
And as a result, the pituitarygland is telling the thyroid
gland, Hey, we don't need anymore thyroid hormone.
Let's stop the production.
So you see low T, SH, many timesundetectable, TSH, like less
than 0.01, for example.
(06:57):
And so that's really thedifference between hypo and
hyper, at least on a blood test.
I mean, symptom-wise.
Um.
I mean, when I dealt with Graveswith hyperthyroidism, everything
is sped up at the metabolism.
So I was having increasedresting heart rate and
palpitations and tremors and um,looser stools are common, and
(07:17):
anxiety and insomnia are some ofthe more common symptoms, hair
loss.
Common with both hypo and hyper.
But um, and then hypo of coursethe opposite.
You get the slower metabolism.
So fatigue is very common.
Weight gain is common.
Actually, actually, I didn'tmention weight loss.
I lost 42 pounds when I dealtwith.
With hyperthyroidism, but weightgain with hypo coldness.
(07:41):
Um, the, uh, the brain fog,constipation, uh, again, brittle
hair, sometimes hair loss aswell.
Uh, and then, and we could talkmore about the symptoms, but as
far as like Graves, Hashimoto's,so.
Most cases of hypothyroidism areautoimmune.
And same thing with mosthyperthyroid conditions are
(08:03):
autoimmune.
So the, so we got Hashimoto'swhere you have certain
autoantibodies, and with gravesyou have different
autoantibodies.
So graves, you have what'scalled thyroid stimulating
immunoglobulins, um, which are,is the type of TSH receptor
antibody.
And what happens is that th the,the thyroid stimulating
(08:23):
immunoglobulins, they bind to,or, or attack, stimulate the TSH
receptors of the thyroid gland.
And that what causes, that'swhat causes the elevation of
thyroid hormone.
And then with Hashimoto's, youhave.
Antibodies such as thyroidglobulin, antibodies, um, and or
thyroid peroxidase or TPOantibodies and the antibodies
(08:46):
themselves aren't causing damageand more of a consequence.
But when you have thoseantibodies, that means that the
immune system is damaging thethyroid gland and, um, which
could lead to hypothyroidism.
But in a nutshell, thatessentially is the difference
between hypothyroidism,hyperthyroidism, graves disease,
Hashimotos.
Yeah, that's super helpful to,to understand.
(09:08):
And one thing that I've heardfrom patients and read, online
and doing research and, justtalking to people is that Graves
disease often hits pretty fastand people will often say like,
I feel like my body's kind ofspinning out of control.
You mentioned like anxiety orrapid heart rate, feeling,
insomnia.
Everything just feels fast.
(09:30):
What was.
Like being inside your body kindof at the height of your
symptoms or what led you to goget testing finally and figure
out what was going on?
Yeah, great question.
So I was, so late 2007, Istarted to, I was.
(09:50):
180 2.
My weight was 182 pounds.
Ideally, I would like to havebeen, and still even now, like 1
65, 1 70.
And so I was trying to loseweight.
So I started, um, exercisingintensely.
Just, uh, too intensely.
I was, I was dieting, prettymuch dieting, detoxifying,
(10:12):
exercising vigorously, and uh,everything was going to plan
according to plan.
I was losing weight.
Um, and, uh, again, eventuallythe, the weight loss became
extreme.
But even then I didn't reallycatch on.
I just thought everything wasjust because of what I was
doing.
'cause it, I mean, it wasn'tlike I was losing 10 pounds per
(10:32):
week, but I mean, just, I was.
Losing weight and had increasedappetite, but I wasn't eating
as, uh, a lot.
I was restricting, um, calories,which I shouldn't have been
doing.
But, uh, then one day I waswalking around a retail store, a
Sam's Club specifically, andthey had a blood pressure
machine and I, um.
(10:53):
Took my blood pressure at one ofthose sit down machines and my
blood pressure was fine, but myheart rate was about 90.
And I was wondering, well, maybeit's just because I'm walking
around.
And so I took my heart rate thenext few days and it was
anywhere between 90 and one 10beats per minute.
And so I'm like, okay, this isnot normal.
And um, and then I was.
(11:15):
Kind of put in the piecestogether.
But again, at that point Ireally didn't have much
experience with hyperthyroidism.
So I just, um, went to a primarycare doctor and he just ran some
blood tests and diagnosed mewith hyperthyroidism.
And, uh, and then eventually Isaw an endocrinologist who, um,
(11:37):
tested the antibodies.
And, I mean, knowing what I knownow, if I had to do it all over
again, I could have done allthat on my own, but.
Just, again, just didn't havethe know, I mean, again, just
wanted to get that, that theso-called expert exper, um,
opinion when it comes to is, youknow, the hyperthyroidism
graves.
And, and I'm glad I did.
I mean, it's, you know, just,um, at, at, like I said, at that
(11:59):
point, I didn't work with peoplewith thyroid conditions, let
alone hyperthyroidism.
I just again, practicedchiropractic and just adjusted,
um, patients.
So, um, but yeah, that's how myjourney began.
That's how I found out.
That I had hyperthyroidism asfar as like how I, how it felt,
kind of like just being in the,you know, that state.
(12:21):
Um, like I said before I wasdiagnosed, you would thi, you
would've thought that I would'veknown because again, a lot of
people, you know, they feel theanxiety, they feel certain
symptoms.
Um, but I honestly didn't, youknow, before taking the heart, I
mean, once I took the restingheart rate, I became more aware.
You know, just coincidentally,I, I, I started noticing the
(12:43):
palpitations.
Maybe I was experiencing thembefore that, but just wasn't
really paying.
I mean, you know, quite frankly,it was so long ago, I forgot,
but after.
After I got diagnosed, I startedrealizing I was having the
palpitations, or again, beingmore aware of it, the weight
loss, you know, I realized thatat least in part was due to the
(13:04):
hyperthyroidism and not solelydue to, you know, just, um, the
diet and exercise.
But, um, but yeah, I mean it's,um, it's, it's hard to explain.
Um.
Just, uh, like when you'redealing with hypo, you know,
it's, it might be easier withthe, and, and maybe even that, I
mean, you could, you could, Ididn't ask you that question
(13:26):
when you were on my podcast,like how specifically you felt,
but again, I've also worked witha lot of hypo patients, so I
kind of have an idea.
And with hyper, it's just, Imean, and everybody's different.
Not everybody experiences the,um, exactly the same.
And, um, I mean, the anxiety Idon't think was crazy high with
me, where it's like, somepeople, it's like really
(13:47):
extreme, uh, with me.
I think a lot of it was justhonestly just also a state of
disbelief.
Like just, um, as, and maybethat was the case with you when
you got your diagnosis,although.
I know you said on when Iinterviewed you that you went to
a few different doctors, so youin a way was probably more
relief maybe.
Yeah, for sure.
That you got the diagnosis withme.
(14:09):
Uh, you know, I wasn't expectingto get diagnosed with
hyperthyroidism le and, andGraves disease, so it was more
like a, a shock.
So now that you know what, youknow, and you've seen probably
thousands of patients at thispoint, what is one thing that
you wish more practitionersunderstood or that you
understood at the time about howthe gut plays into thyroid
(14:30):
autoimmunity, especially, youknow, related to graves?
Yeah, great question.
I mean, yeah, I, I, I wish thatI knew.
J just simply the relationshipthat most of the immune system
cells were located in the gutand just ha you know, the, the
impact of having that increasein intestinal permeability.
(14:52):
And I guess how common it is.
I mean, this was going back.
I mean, we're talking about 2008into 2009, so now everybody has
heard of leaky gut, you know,increasing intestinal
permeability.
And we know, and there's somany, I mean, there's the, the
stool tests now are definitelybetter than the stool tests from
(15:12):
years ago, and a lot morepractitioners are doing them.
And so, I mean, just overall, Iwish I had greater knowledge of
how big of a factor the, the gutplayed.
In autoimmune conditions.
Um, just it beca again, justwasn't, I mean, that information
wasn't, I mean, not to say itwasn't available, but now of
(15:35):
course also it's good and badwith everything on the internet.
You could find everything, whichnot everything's reliable, but
back then there weren't podcaststhere.
I'm trying to think, was thereYouTube in 2008?
Um, I think, think so.
My my maybe.
But, um, but you know, again, itstill wasn't what it was today
and you gotta be careful even ofcourse today, but.
You know, as a practitioner Ilearned some of that, like some
(15:57):
basic endocrinology goingthrough chiropractic school and
basic gut health information.
But again, they didn't reallyget into that relationship.
So, um, so yeah, I wish when itcomes specifically to the gut, I
wish I, I did have moreknowledge, um, back then.
But, you know, again, justthat's what any practice, you
(16:18):
just, uh, evolve and you, youknow, over, over the years you
learn more and more.
Jumping in really quick to tellyou about an exciting offer that
we have.
I know so many of you have foundthis podcast to be really
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Yeah.
So on those, on that same line,like how do you figure out
(17:23):
what's actually drivingsomeone's graves?
Uh, how do you decide, you know,whether to start with gut
nervous system, thyroid, nnutri, like what's kind of your
process that you go through withyour clients?
Yeah, so I mean, the first thingwith Graves is, and even with
other types of hyperthyroidism,is safe symptom management.
(17:48):
So we wanna do more than justmanage symptoms.
But it's a little bit scary whensomeone has a resting heart rate
and triple digits and mm-hmm.
You know, they, you might'veheard of like the term thyroid
storm where, you know, canbecome a life-threatening
situation if the heart ratebecomes really high and un
uncontrollable and then theyends up at the the er.
(18:11):
So we want to try to preventthat from happening as much as
we can.
So if I'm working with someone,they might already be taking.
Antithyroid medication.
Um, I chose not to.
I took the herbs bugleweed aswell as mother wart.
Bugleweed is an herb withantithyroid properties.
Doesn't work for everybody, andthat's something I learned.
(18:31):
When I was attending thosefunctional endocrinology
seminars, so I didn't know if itwould work with me, but, but
again, it did.
And so if someone's taking themeds and it's helping and
they're comfortable taking themeds, so that's fine.
They could stay on the meds andwe could still try to address
the cost of the problem.
Um, if they're not taking themeds, we definitely wanted to do
something, whether it's theBugleweed or um, something else
(18:53):
naturally to try to lower thosethyroid hormone levels and keep
them safe.
Um.
Then we wanna incorporate thefoundations, and I think really
with any health condition,graves, Hashimoto's, other
conditions that don't relate tothe thyroid and immune system.
We want to have people eat a.
(19:14):
Healthy diet, whole healthyfoods and, uh, drink purified
water or, or spring water of aglass bottle.
So another area of controversy,which water should we, I think
we all could agree, avoid thetop water, the water from the
plastic bottles.
Um, stress.
So we spoke about stress when,um, you are on my podcast, uh,
relationship between, you know,stress and, and, um, Hashimoto's
(19:38):
and stress in the gut.
And, um, so just trying to dothings to reduce stressors and
probably more importantly,improve stress handling and, um.
Sleep, of course, is important.
Another foundation, and a lot ofpeople have sleep issues and
sometimes it's intentionalbecause people are staying up
late and, you know, just surfingthe, the internet or on their
(20:01):
iPhone in bed.
But, um, but other times peoplejust can't fall asleep or they
wake up in the middle of thenight.
So trying to, um, help peopleget more sleep, uh, just uh.
You know, basic things, at leastinitially, like to reduce some
someone's toxic burden.
So those are, uh, so thefoundations are important.
(20:21):
Uh, and then, I mean, I do liketo do some testing.
I don't go crazy with thetesting in my practice, and not
everybody gets the same testing.
So, uh, I mean, I docomprehensive blood testing on,
so that's something I do oneverybody.
And even that depends on theper, like if I give.
Like what I think is importantand then those that I think
(20:43):
maybe could be helpful, butmaybe more optional, um, in case
if someone is paying out ofpocket.
But, you know, of course I wantto do comprehensive thyroid
testing, looking at antibodiesand um, you know, the basics
like a CBC with differentialcomprehensive metabolic panel,
lipid panel vitamin Z.
(21:03):
Healthy vitamin D level isimportant for healthy immune
system.
Um, I know you mentioned ironpanel when you are on my
podcast, so I do like a fulliron panel, you know, as well.
I do, uh, homocysteine, CRP, soagain do do a decent amount of
blood testing and then, uh, andblood sugar.
Look at blood sugar markers aswell.
(21:25):
Uh, and then I do like adrenaltesting, so adrenal testing.
You know, I don't know.
We didn't talk about really, wespoke about some other tests,
uh, like hair testing and spokeabout gut testing and, and you
know, definitely I like, I likethose tests as well, but adrenal
testing, some practitioners justassume that everybody has
compromised adrenals.
(21:46):
Some practitioners test for it.
I don't think there's really aright or wrong.
I like testing just because.
I guess there's a few reasons.
So one, probably the biggestreason is when I dealt with
Graves, I was in denial thatstress was a factor.
You know, I, I, I knew, I mean,I knew stress impacted, like,
(22:06):
not that I thought I was stressfree, but I just thought I was
naturally good at handling thestress, and if I didn't see how
bad my adrenals looked.
I wouldn't have made the effort,I don't think, to improve my
stress handling.
Just not back, not only backthen, but just up until now too.
Just making a, you know, justblocking out time for stress
management, um, on a dailybasis.
(22:29):
And so I do like adrenaltesting.
I did back then, I did adrenalsaliva test, and I, I still do
that too now.
There's.
Dried urine test, like the Dutchtest, um, that also looks at
circadian rhythm of cortisol.
So sometimes we'll do, you knowthat, that test.
Um, and you know, we, we spoke alittle bit about hair testing
on, um, on my podcast when Iinterviewed you and.
(22:51):
So I, I, which is again acontroversial test, but I do
like hair testing.
I like stool testing.
Um, again, I don't do stooltesting on everybody, but I do a
decent amount of them andsometimes I'll do organic acid
testing.
So, so really it depends on alsothe health history, but I do
like to do testing rather thanguessing.
Um, and so sometimes you have toguess because the tests aren't
(23:14):
perfect, but if you can dotesting and see what's on the
testing, and then based on.
The test, we giverecommendations.
Um, so, uh, again, I'll givesome general support like
probiotics and omegas and, um, Imean, again, like sometimes
selenium, but selenium couldalso look at things like hair
(23:34):
testing or if someone wants todo like RBC, selenium and the
blood, I mean, that's also anoption.
But vitamin Z we want to testfor, uh, again, h Pyl, we spoke
about h pylori.
Which we could definitely talkmore about'cause we didn't, we
spoke a little bit about HP Liumparasites, but I think that's a
really big factor with Gravesand Hashimoto's.
(23:55):
I mean, in the re research as arelationship, it's something I
see a lot in practice as far asa potential trigger.
Um, but yeah, that's my, my, somy, a summary of the process
start with symptom managementfoundations.
Testing, you know, to, to try tofind triggers underlying
imbalances and obviously addressthose triggers and underlying
(24:17):
imbalances.
And that, and again, that allties into the gut too, because I
mean, the, the foundations willhelp with gut healing.
Doing some of the testing, youknow, could help with gut heal
healing as well, depending onwhat we find.
Yeah, well you kind of answeredthis, but my next question was
gonna be what gut relatedtriggers do you see?
You know, usually you see thingslike h pylori and parasites,
(24:41):
online about Graves Disease andHashimoto's.
So would you say that that issomething that you commonly see,
or is there, are there otherthings on gut related tests that
you tend to find?
Those are the two.
As far as like trigger triggers,I mean, we de, de de.
I definitely see other thingson.
The stool test as you do too.
But I don't know if you'd saythey're triggers, they're, I
(25:03):
mean, they could give signslike, you know, someone has
like, I see a lot of.
Depressed or lower pancreaticelastase on the stool test,
which I wouldn't say that's atrigger, but that's a sign of
other things.
Again, very common with h pylorito see like that low pancreatic
elastase.
And, um, you know, we see a lotof, uh, just general dysbiosis.
(25:26):
Like, uh, if, like, again,there's different tests.
Uh, like I, I do GI maps, butalso I've done like the GI
effects and, you know, um.
Again, a lot of good companies,but streptococcus, for example,
is something I see a lot of, butI wouldn't say it's a trigger,
it's just uh, um, I think evenin some healthy people we would
(25:46):
see that even though it's redflagged and it's under the
opportunistic and, but again, tome it's even if someone is in
remission, it's not uncommon tosee some imbalances on a stool
test.
So I would say H plar is a bigone.
Um, definitely parasites couldbe a factor as well and a
potential trigger.
Um, candida overgrowth, I meanstool, in my experience, it's
(26:11):
not the best test to pick upcandida.
Yeah.
But, and candida, I don't know,even if you would call like a
trigger trigger, but it canaffect, the gut, can increase
permeability of the gut.
Um, so an organic acid test isactually really good for picking
up, uh, yeast overgrowth.
Uh, we spoke, uh, when you areon my podcast about sibo, small
intestinal bacteria overgrowth,which again, I don't know if you
(26:34):
really would consider a trigger,but it can affect.
It could cause leaky gut too.
So if you have sibo, you haveyeast overgrowth, um, one or
both of those.
Uh, and if you don't addressthose, it's gonna be hard to
heal due to the impact they haveon, on the gut.
Uh, but yeah, I would say thoseare, I mean there's, in the
research, in the literature,there's uh, a yersinia entera,
(26:58):
which is, uh, a bacteria, and Ican't say I see a lot of that on
the stool test.
Um.
I know I had Dr.
Nicholas Hedberg on the pod onmy podcast, and he mentioned
like blood testing is actuallybetter for Yesinia.
I guess the only concern aboutthat is same thing with h
Pylori, if you have it, is itlike a current problem or is it
(27:20):
a past problem?
'cause the antibodies could lastmm-hmm.
For a while in the blood, butoccurrence to the research, that
could be a factor, you know, aswell.
But yeah, as far as the gutgoes, I mean, those are probably
some of the, the more common gutmicrobes, gut, gut infections
that we would see.
So what is the typical timelinethat you see?
(27:40):
You asked me a similar questionon your podcast, and I'm curious
just with Graves specifically,you know, if someone's taking
antithyroid medication or takingthe herbs, like you mentioned,
whichever route they choose, howlong does it take typically?
To kind of stabilize thingswhere you start to see the
resting heart rate come down,you start to see just
(28:01):
improvement a little bit insymptoms or even just
improvement in labs kind ofnormalizing.
Um, or do you feel like it's allover the place?
I mean, it is all, excuse me, itis all over the place, but it,
it's, yeah, so it does depend onthe person, but I mean, it's not
uncommon to see, like, I do liketo see changes.
And how people feel within, Imean, sometimes we see it within
(28:25):
a few weeks, but it, it could bea few months.
I mean, when I dealt with Gravespersonally, and I took the
bugleweed, I noticed within thefirst month that it was working,
you know, even before doing thefirst blood test, I, I felt I
was able to measure my heartrate and the heart rate was
decreasing, and I, I startedwith Bugleweed.
(28:46):
But I was still havingpalpitations, so I added mother
wart and that helped with the,the palpitations.
Um, even further.
So symptom-wise, I mean, and ifsomeone's taking the meds, it,
it'll, it can work much quicker.
The, the problem with amedication in the world of
hyperthyroidism with antithyroidmedications such as methimazole
or propal uracil, which is PTU,is that side effects are very
(29:09):
common.
Um.
But they work, they so someonecould feel better quickly with
the meds if they do take it.
The herbs, if they work, theycould also, maybe not as
quickly, but within a few weeks.
Labs.
It depends.
I mean, again, it's notunreasonable to start seeing
some changes with the labs, likeeven the first test.
(29:31):
But it's, everybody's different.
Some, sometimes they'll take afew labs and one thing that's
very common with.
Hyperthyroidism, especiallyGraves, is that TSH will remain
undetectable usually for quite awhile.
So it's not uncommon for thlike, we'll see thyroid hormone
levels decreasing, and TSH isstaying where it is, um, for a
(29:53):
while, and it frustrates people.
But what I tell'em is as long asthe thyroid hormone levels
continue to decrease, again,eventually the TSH will start
increasing.
It might be three months, itmight be six months, it might be
longer.
But if we see the thyroidhormones trending in the right
direction, I wouldn't worryabout it.
Okay, and I think, a commonthing, and you, you mentioned
(30:17):
this at the beginning, is thatpeople are often told that they
kind of quote unquote, have nochoice and they need to have the
radioactive iodine or surgery.
And why do you think this haspushed so hard?
And what do people need tounderstand before they make that
kind of decision?
Yeah, I mean it's uh, there'sprobably a few reasons.
(30:41):
I mean, I think one reason is.
Endocrinologists feel morecomfortable dealing with
hypothyroidism thanhyperthyroidism because again,
there is that risk of a thyroidstorm or so.
You know, just, uh, just again,there's more, not that
hypothyroidism doesn't comewithout risks, but again, when
(31:02):
someone has elevated thyroidhormones, it's more risky.
So they feel it's easier tomanage.
Just get the radioactive iodinethyroid surgery, and we just put
the person on thyroid hormone.
And, and they'll live happilyever ha after, which doesn't of
course always happen, but that'swhat they're thinking.
And um, so that's one reason.
(31:22):
I mean, you know, is it profitalso?
I mean, it's hard.
You would hope that, would it bethe case, but I mean, by doing
that, uh, obviously there'sprofit with thyroid surgery.
Radioactive iodine, I don'tthink is that profitable.
But either way.
If someone becomes hypo, they dohave a lifetime thyroid patient
that they'll be managing and,and um, you know, with a thyroid
(31:45):
hormone replacement.
But, you know, again, you wouldlike to think that's not the
main reason.
And, and I, I think the mainreason is just because, again,
they're very nervous about thehyperthyroidism.
And I mean, some of them also,they'll, at least this is what I
hear.
I mean, when I dealt with my, Ijust went to the endocrinologist
one time when I dealt withGraves.
'cause I wasn't gonna follow herrecommendation.
(32:06):
So I just wanted to get.
Diagnosed and I got anultrasound and, um, and she
recomme recommended Antithyroidmedication.
She didn't push the radioactiveeye or thyroid surgery on me.
She just gave me medication,which I, I mentioned I didn't
take.
So I was like, uh, it's no usefor me seeing her.
But, but, um, whenendocrinologist, they, a lot of
them will give the antithyroidmedication and they'll tell
(32:30):
their patients that they can'ttake the medication for more
than.
A year and a half, two years.
'cause it'll damage their liver.
And it does, it can put stresson the liver.
So that's not, I mean, they'rebeing honest with that, but it's
not the case with everybody.
And so, um, I'm not, I'm notsaying people should be on the
(32:52):
medication long term, but ifit's, if choosing between long
term antithyroid medication,especially at lower doses, like
five milligrams of methol, 10milligrams of methimazole.
And then getting his thyroidremoved completely or ablated
with the radioactive iodine.
The research actually shows thattaking something like meth, like
(33:13):
low dose methimazole is safe forlike 10, 15 years or longer.
So it's not, I don't prefer that'cause that means that the
person, we haven't addressed thecause of the problem and they're
relying on antithyroidmedication, but.
That just goes back to thequestion why do some
endocrinologists recommend it?
Some of them aren't quick torecommend it, like some will
(33:34):
will recommend it prettyquickly.
But some will say, go, let's goon the meds for a year and a
half, two years.
Let's see if you get inremission.
And they're not doing anythingto improve the person's immune
system, so the person may,people, may time, will either
won't go into remission orrelapse.
But those are some of the commonreasons why endocrinologists are
hasty to recommend a radioactiveeye on thyroid surgery, or
(33:55):
again, maybe not hasty, some ofthem right off the bat, but a
year and a half, two yearslater, we'll recommend it even
when then it's not necessary.
Okay.
Yeah, that's super helpful.
In your opinion, what would yousay?
Is the number one thing that yousee people like holding people
back from getting better?
(34:15):
You've probably had clientswhere you're like, you should be
responding to this, or, youknow, maybe we're not seeing the
results that you want.
Is there one like common thingthat you think is a big barrier
to seeing the symptomimprovement that they wanna see?
Or even improvement on labs?
It's hard to pick one.
(34:37):
I mean, you know, if I had tolike pick one, I'd cheat a
little bit and say thefoundations, which include a few
different things.
Yeah, just, just notincorporating either, not.
Being strict enough with thediet.
And it's tricky.
'cause again, I nobody likesrestrictive diets.
And to me, if someone's gonna belike on an elimination type diet
(34:57):
or an autoimmune protocol, it'snot a long-term thing.
Um, but either way, and again,not that everybody needs to be
on like an a IP, like even paleois pretty healthy.
The the point is.
Some people have issues or havevery difficult time giving up
gluten, giving up other commonallergens, giving up, um, you
(35:19):
know, like, uh, fast food, justthings that they shouldn't be
eating.
So just eating whole healthyfoods for some people is a
challenge.
And then I, I'd say the, thetwo, I'll, I'll narrow it down
to two things, the diet and thestress.
If you're gonna say two, likethere are other things, but.
The stress a lot of times is, Iguess you could say overlooked,
(35:40):
like,'cause they, I mean, a lotof people do focus on the diet.
But overlook the stress.
And then of course, some peopleneglect the diet and also aren't
really focusing on the stress.
But again, I gave my story whereif I didn't see my adrenals, I
wouldn't, I also probablywould've not really focused on
stress management as much.
(36:00):
And so I, I think I see thatwhen I do like follow up
consults with, with patients,uh, you know, I find that, I
mean, some of them are blockingout time for stress management,
but some of them.
Aren't, or they just considerlike walking as stress
management, which is, I mean itis walk, but I think sometimes
people need to do more need.
They need to incorporate sometype of deep breathing, some
(36:22):
type of mind body medicine.
Totally.
Yeah.
Walking while listening to apodcast and you know, totally
distracting yourself, might notactually be.
Super stress reducing.
Depending on what you'relistening to.
You might need to walk and notlisten to something, listen to
the birds and yeah, I totallyget that.
So if someone just got diagnosedand is feeling, a little bit
(36:45):
overwhelmed, what is one thingthat you think they could do
this week and maybe the answer'skind of obvious to feel a little
bit more on the path that theyneed to be on.
Uh, yeah, I guess, uh, I guesswe kind of like going back to
like just, I mean, what canpeople do on their own?
(37:06):
They could change their diet andlifestyle.
That's, uh, and I won't saythat's the easiest thing, but
that's something that peoplecould do today or tomorrow, is
just, uh, clean up their diet.
Just with the stress management.
I would say, if we're gonnaagain, say one thing.
Block out five minutes per dayfor let's say just deep
(37:26):
breathing.
Um, and again, not that that'sgoing to reverse your.
Graves or Hashimoto's condition,but it's really about getting in
the, into the routine of stressmanagement and just, uh, trying
to incorporate it not just a fewdays a week because I mean,
which is still, which is great,but you know, there are a lot of
people that don't do, don't doanything from a stress
management perspective.
(37:46):
But then there are people thatsay, well, yeah, you know, I do
yoga maybe like twice a week andthat's it.
Um, which is great, but then notdoing it at all, but.
You know, just incorporate trustmanagement every single day.
So I would say take five minutesper day.
If you don't have five minutesper day, then you definitely
need to do this.
Um, so, uh, and then once you'redoing it for five minutes per
(38:09):
day, then you could graduallyincrease the duration.
Maybe some days you only do fiveminutes per day, but other days
you have a little bit more time,so you do 10, 15, 20 minutes per
day.
So, so that, again, the diet, Iwould say, if we had to make a
choice, yeah, I would probablysay diet, but.
It's hard to heal without, youknow, if you're in a fight or if
(38:29):
you're in fight or flight modeall the time and eating a
perfect diet, it's still gonnabe difficult to heal.
So I really do think they bothgo together.
And obviously the sleep, youknow, we could also say sleep,
but if you're eating well andyour stress is really under
control and managing it, thatthose two things will do wonders
for a lot of sleep issues.
Totally.
(38:50):
You mentioned adrenals and howyou wouldn't have necessarily
bought into stress being apiece, and we see that a lot
with our clients as well.
What's the most common adrenalpattern that you see?
Do you see people completelyflatlined to just burn out or do
you see the kind of the oppositecortisol curve that you should?
(39:11):
And the reason I ask is becauseonline right now there's this
huge trend of like.
Cortisol face and cortisoldrink, and everybody's talking
about cortisol and how you knowyour cortisol is actually too
high and all this stuff, and weactually see a lot of clients
that are just so burned out thattheir cortisol is actually just
completely flatlined.
(39:33):
So I'm curious what you see.
Yeah, I mean, I see a mix, butI, I tend to see more of what
you just said, and that was me.
When I dealt with graves, I, um,pretty much had like a flat line
cortisol, so definitely like lowin the morning, and it wasn't
high at night.
It was low.
Pretty much throughout the day.
My DHEA was low.
(39:53):
My secretary IGA was loweverything.
Um, so every, everything waslow.
And yeah, that's not the casewith everybody, but I'd say
that's more common.
We do, we do see some peoplewhere cortisol is elevated in
the morning and then I gottasee, you know, like, was it a
stressful morning or like, areyou having sleep issues?
And so there's, um.
(40:13):
Yeah.
So, and, and then yeah,sometimes we do see like low
cortisol in the mor, thatopposite pattern you mentioned
where cortisol is low in themorning, but then kind of spikes
up at night.
So yeah, we, we see a mixture ofthings, but I would say the flat
line is, is pretty common.
The low cor, and then the samething I mentioned that I had low
DHEA.
It's not everybody, but that'spretty common too.
(40:37):
This has been super helpful andI'm excited to share this
episode.
So last question before we wrapreal quick is because this is
called the Love Your Gutpodcast, what is your favorite
way, or what is one thing thatyou do to love your gut?
Uh, another challengingquestion.
One thing that I do to love mygut, um, oh boy.
(41:01):
Um, I.
I mean, I'll go back to thestress management just because
the impact that stress has onthe gut.
It, it's, um, again, stress hasnegative impact.
I mean, chronic stress has anegative impact everywhere.
But again, the, the stress, Ithink real,'cause I mentioned
how.
When I dealt with Graves again,I had that low secretary IGA and
(41:26):
um, and it stayed low for quitea while after a few retests and
eventually it did get, um, towhere it needed to be.
Um, probably need to retest itagain.
It's been a while since I did aretest and looked at what that
secretary IGA'cause.
Again, that's the one thingabout stress.
Is, I think I'm a lot better.
I know I'm a lot better when itcomes to stress management,
which has helped my thyroid, mygut, my immune system.
(41:48):
But it's always, I think, a workin progress.
So, um, so if I, again, diet ofcourse, is a, has played a big
role as well.
But if I had to choose onething, I'd, I'd also say the
stress is, is probably thebiggest factor or stress
handling them.
The improve stress handling, ummm-hmm is the one way I've
really helped to love my gut.
(42:10):
Love it.
Well, where can everybody findyou?
Um, with your podcast, website,all the things.
Yeah.
So my podcast, uh, save mythyroid.com.
Um, or just go see your favoritepodcast and type in Save My
Thyroid.
And, um, then I have threebooks.
Uh.
Natural treatment solutions forHyperthyroid and Graves Disease,
(42:32):
which is in its third edition,Hashimoto's Triggers and the
Hyperthyroid Healing Diet.
You could find those on Amazon.
And then my newsletter, uh,healthy Gut, healthy Thyroid,
um, and then you could checkthat out by visiting save my
thyroid.com/newsletter.
Awesome.
Well, thanks so much forjoining.
Thank you so much, Dr.
(42:52):
Heather.
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