Episode 111 - The History of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

Text Abby and Alan

Abby and Alan explore the haunting real life history behind The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. We talk through the real life inspiration behind the novella, the impact of Jekyll and Hyde on culture and of course our favorite (and least favorite) adaptations. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode
of the Lunatic Radio Hourpodcast.
I'm Abby Brinker, sitting herewith Alan Codan.
Hello.
And today we have for you thehistory and the impact of the
Strange case of Dr.
Jell and Mr.
Hyde.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
I have a question.
Okay.
Is JCO and Hyde a universalmovie monster?
Universal monster verse?
You know what I'm trying to say?
Are they part of the universalmonster verse?
They

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Are.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Is that, is that a phrase?

Speaker 1 (00:52):
It is not an official phrase, but yes, they are part
of, they are universal monsters.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
I see.
Okay.
That's

Speaker 1 (01:00):
All question answered.
Okay, great.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
So full transparency.
I did not watch the original Jone Hyde movie.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
You mean the original or the Universal?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
The Universal is not the original.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
No.
There's actually an early onefrom 1920.
Typical, but that's like, youknow, it's like a silent film.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Is this scary?
Did you see it?

Speaker 1 (01:24):
It's not, of course it's not scary.
It's from 1920.
I've seen like clips from it.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
So movies from the twenties are terrifying.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Not in the same way that like Hereditary is

Speaker 2 (01:35):
The scariest movie ever made

Speaker 1 (01:37):
.
Yeah.
One of'em.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
It's, it's right up there with, uh, An Inconvenient
Truth

Speaker 1 (01:43):
.
But here's the thing, there areso many Jacqueline Hyde
iterations both like within likethe universe of calling the
characters Jacqueline Hyde, Ithink like upwards of 19 or 20
films.
And then very similar takes onit with like different character
names.
And we're gonna talk through allof that.
But there's just so much to getthrough with this one that, you

(02:07):
know, and it, and it is, I thinkfrom movie to movie, it can be
very repetitive, right?
Cuz it's kind of like theverbatim story being told over
and over again in a lot of thecases.
And there's some, you know,funky versions, but for the most
part, So I think we, you know,we did our diligence here and we
have a strong sense of thesubject matter going into this
episode.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Okay.
So, I know in most of ourepisodes we really do our best
to avoid spoilers.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Oh yeah.
There's gonna be spoilers.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
I'm just gonna rip off the bandaid right here in
right here.
Now let's

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Do it.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
J and Hyde are the same person.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Dun dun dun.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Which is a huge reveal in the book.
We both read the book for this.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah.
And the book was written in the18 hundreds,

Speaker 2 (02:52):
So you've had plenty of time to read it.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
, you've had a lifetime to read it.
Yeah, and I think like mostpeople are, that's a spoiler,
but like most people are veryaware, I think of the premise.
Sure.
Before we get into everything,cuz we have so much to talk
about one housekeeping itemsuper fast.
It is now October, our holymonth.
We are so happy that it isOctober and we have some really

(03:18):
fun things going on.
Anyway, the point is, forOctober, for the month of
October only, we are having thebiggest merch sale that we are
ever going to have.
25% off with the code Spooky 25all caps.
Spooky 25.
If you go to lunaticproject.com, click on mer on the

(03:38):
top right, and you'll be takento our merch store.
We have tons of very cooldesigns from very cool
designers.
A lot of takes on like ourepisodes.
Like there's Moth Man, there'skiller cars, there's mermaids,
there's a Death TA card design.
There's so many designs that wereally love and we think are
really cool and we wanted tooffer something special this

(04:00):
month.
But again, it's, it's not goingto happen again for a very, very
long time.
So head over to lunixproject.com, click on merch
Spooky 25, and that will lastuntil Halloween through, through
the month of October.
There we go.
Housekeeping out of the way.
That's all I wanted to say.
Thank God, Michelle, we dosources really quick and then
get into the fun stuff.

(04:20):
Sure.
Okay.
There's an all thingsinteresting article called Meet
William Brody, a BBC article bySteven Brocklehurst, The Real
Jacqueline Hyde, An Atlasobscure article by Eric Grund,
Houser, the creepy cabinet thatinspired Jacqueline Hde.
A screen ran article by ZachGas, 10 best Jacqueline Hyde

(04:40):
movies ranked by imdb, a rankerarticle, Famous cases of
dissociative identity disorder,my Cleveland clinic.org article
on dissociative identitydisorder, and of course,
Wikipedia.
And Im db Today we are talkingabout the strange case of Dr.
Jeckle and Mr.

(05:00):
Hyde in 1886, right at the tailend of the major gothic horror
wave in literature.
Robert Louis Stevenson'snovella, The Strange Case of Dr.
Jeckle and Mr.
Hyde was published.
It went on to inspire 19 filmadaptations, 11 major radio
dramas, over 10 televisionadaptations, several books,

(05:23):
comic books and video games.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Video games.
Mm-hmm.
like what?

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Well, we'll see, we'll get into that at the pop
culture section.
Oh

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Geez, come on.
This

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Is just our introduction, you know,

Speaker 2 (05:33):
I wanna play the JetLine Hide video game.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
I mean, it, it does sound really fun.
especially like, I loveanything that's like gothic
Victorian themed, you know, thatsetting.
It's,

Speaker 2 (05:44):
I mean, I'm just imagining it for being like
original Nintendo where you'rejust like side scrolling and
have to like stomp on littlekids

Speaker 1 (05:51):
.
That's funny.
If you haven't listened to theaudio book, I just wanna say
it's fairly short because again,it's a Nobel so it's about
three, three and a half hours.
There's versions on Audible.
But Spoiler, our friend JohnCook for the Fido podcast has
kind of partnered with us aroundthis episode.

(06:11):
And starting October 30th, he'sgoing to be releasing his
version, um, his narration of iton the Fido podcast.
So that would be a freealternative to buying the audio
book if you are interested in,in listening to it around
Halloween,

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Which is always a great time to listen to spooky
things.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Now the one on Audible, there's a fairly,
there's a bunch, cuz again, thisis, what's the term?
Not duty free that's at theairport.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Uh, public domain.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
It's public domain.
Thank you.
Also duty free.
Uh, so, you know, anybody canput out a version of this audio
book

Speaker 1 (06:48):
And or any, that's why there's so many adaptations
of it across mediums.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It can be recreated as manytimes as possible.
And I honestly wish more stuffwas in the public domain.
Yes.
However, uh, there's one inAudible by Richard Armitage
Armitage, I'm not sure how yousay his name, but he's a, I
dunno, I really like his stuff.
I, I thought he was like one ofthe selling points of the, the
Hobbit movies.
Um, but it's, it's a very funread.

(07:14):
Yeah.
Uh, he does some pretty goodvoices.
It's a pretty quick book.
Like it doesn't take a long timeto get through, which means I'm
really excited to just like,jump back in and listen to
another version.
Uh, and I am very, very excitedfor John's reading cuz he does
such a good job with classicmaterial.
It just like, he like reallybrings it to life.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
We're super, super excited for John's version, and
we're gonna have teaser, we'regonna have an excerpt from that
in the stories episode to whereeverybody's palette.
So something to look forward tofor next week.
Great.
Let's start with a high leveloverview of the plot.
Right.
Most people are probably awareof the premise, but just to kind
of brush everybody up on thespecifics, The story is centered

(07:56):
around a character named GabrielJohn Terson an attorney, and he
is investigating these strangedoings of his friend Dr.
Jeckle and a murderer named Mr.
Hyde.
Right.
And so, as Alan said, like thetwist at the end is that aha, he
finds out that they're the sameperson.
Dr.

(08:17):
Jeckle is kind and patient.
He's very, very well respected.
He works hard to try and repressthe hide version of himself, but
obviously he isn't alwayssuccessful.
And the story has this splash ofscience fiction, which makes
some of the stuff we're gonnatalk about today.
I kind of debated whether or notit was in scope, but it sort of
has this splash of sciencefiction because in order to

(08:39):
combat his evil urges, thedoctor develops a serum that he
hopes will suppress the murdererside of him.
But what it does is to createhis alter ego, Mr.
Hyde.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Is that why he makes the serum?

Speaker 1 (08:52):
That's a, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
I I thought it was he just wanted to, he wanted to
suppress his murder side.
He did.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
That's literally what I just said.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
No, no, no.
That's, I'm I'm asking you this.
Yeah.
Okay.
Uh, I I interpreted itdifferently.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Okay.
Tell me,

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Um, because the final chapter of the book is like the
little memoirs Yeah.
Of Dr.
Jeckle.
I thought that he wanted a serumthat I thought he was trying to
develop some kind of serum thatwould remove his, uh,
inhibitions.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Oh, maybe I mis maybe I misinterpreted it then

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Also, I mean, I could be wrong.
I I'll just finish and then we,we can come to our conclusions.
Great.
So, um, I thought it was, he wastrying to develop this serum
that removes inhibitions.
And so, uh, in order to furtherexperimental medicine, he
thought that without theconstraints of society, Right,

(09:52):
uh, then he could be a, amiraculous doctor.
Right.
Uh, or whatever he wants to do.
And then, but once he took theserum, he turned into hide and
all this newfound freedom camewith it.
But he still, then he turned,discovered that he's kind of a
horrible guy.
And so after taking it just afew times, he quickly finds

(10:13):
himself being hide as thedefault.
And then he has to take theserum to transform back to
transform into j And every timehe falls asleep, he would wake
up at his hide again.
So, uh, he would basically takethe serum as hide to indeed
remove those murderous instinctsbecause the tables had flipped.

(10:35):
And I'd also never seen thatbefore.
We'll, we'll, we'll get moreinto this in the pop culture
section, but, uh, I was kind ofsurprised by the mechanics of
the serum and how they worked,uh, in the original literature.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
It's interesting.
So I just looked it up because Ididn't wanna be made a fool.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
No, no one wants that.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Uh, and according to Dark Universe wiki.com,

Speaker 2 (10:57):
The, the pinnacle of all knowledge

Speaker 1 (10:59):
, it says that the serum was developed in an
effort to control Edward Hyde.
What I think is happening in thestory is that the character,
whoever he is, is, is kind ofboth Right.
The, and then what he takes isserum to try to suppress this
like side of him that he doesn'tlove and it's splinters.
So he's like, then literally,like te he has two personalities

(11:21):
versus one person who has liketwo sides of the coin.
Right.
Who's good and bad.
He becomes two internalpersonalities that are distinct
from each other.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah.
I, I, I, I'm, I'm still tryingto, you know, extrapolate from
my own reading here, if he wastaking the serum to control Hyde
, why would he take it the firsttime?
Hyde didn't exist until he tookthe serum.
So there had to be something.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Well, his, Yeah.
He knows he has this dark side.
Hmm.
It just wasn't, My name isEdward Hyde.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Gotcha.
So,

Speaker 1 (11:51):
And then it created that alter ego.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Okay.
So it wasn't so much he wastrying to suppress him his
inhibitions.
He was trying to suppress hisimpulses.
Right.
So, Okay.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
His like kernel, whatever.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because then he goes on to sayhow as Jeckle, he's a balanced
human being.
Right.
And then it was supposed tostrip away the evil part, but
instead it stripped away thegood part.
And hide is pure evil.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Exactly.
It's sort of just like segmentedthem.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
That's what happens when you know you love it, Let
it simmer for too long.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
So it happens when you try to play, God, we've seen
it with Dr.
Frankenstein, All of thesedoctors.
We should have definitely put,uh, in our mad scientist
episode.
We missed that opportunity.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
We had a mad scientist episode.
Yeah.
No we didn't.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
No, you're right.
We didn't Well, I had, I,we had one with Sarah, um,
Quincy, where we talked aboutCro and Burke and mad scientist.
But that was a following, uh,invisible man.
I, for first second thought itwas a whole mad scientist series
We did.
But don't listen to me.
What the do I know?
Okay, here we go.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
We can certainly do a mad scientist episode.
That might be fun.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
We'll add it to the list, our literal list.
So there's so much to say aboutthe history of this piece of
literature.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Say one thing,

Speaker 1 (13:09):
and about the impact that it had on pop
culture to really understandJacqueline Hyde.
We need to start with the authorRobert Louis Stevenson was born
in November of 1850 in Scotland.
Is

Speaker 2 (13:22):
It Louis or Lewis?

Speaker 1 (13:23):
I thought it was Lewis.
But then I heard it's, I watcheda bunch of like videos and stuff
to prepare for this episode.
And a lot of people said, Louis,Wow.
Maybe it's Lewis I'll, uh, I'lljust like flip back and forth a
bunch so no one can get mad atme.
Sure.
In addition to today's subjectmatter, Stevenson is also known
for writing Alan TreasureIsland.

(13:43):
I

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Love Treasure Island.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
I know that you do also a novel called Kidnapped in
a book of poems called A Child'sGarden of Verses.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah.
I, once I figured out that thiswas the same guy that wrote both
Yeah.
Well, you know, Jackline Hydeand Treasure Island.
I was like, Wow, what else hashe written?
And it's like, I've never heardof

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Anything else.
Yeah.
Those are his two hits.
He was a two hit wonder.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
I mean, he had a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah.
But those are the ones thatreally sure are famous.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Right.
That have survived like 200years.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Stevenson had chronic health issues related to
bronchitis throughout his life.
Typical, He only lived to be 44years old.
Oh,

Speaker 2 (14:20):
No.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
But in that time, he had a fairly prolific writing
career, often mixing in theliterary circles of London, and
finally spending years living inSamoa.
In December of 1894, Stevensonwas sitting with his wife
struggling to open a bottle ofwine.
He said, quote, What's that?
Followed by quote, Does my facelook exchange before collapsing?

(14:43):
His death is thought to havebeen caused by a cerebral
hemorrhage.
And so these words, a requiemthat he had written, are
inscribed on his tomb per hiswishes, under the wide and
starry sky.
Dig the grave.
And let me lie, Glad did I liveand gladly die.
And I laid me down with a will.

(15:04):
This be the verse, you grave forme.
Here he lies.
Where he longed to be home is asailor home from sea and the
hunter home from the hill.
He is buried in Samoa on top ofa mountain overlooking the
ocean.
According to Wikipedia, in 2018,he was ranked as the 26 most

(15:24):
translated author in the worldjust after Charles Dickinson.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Wow.
Wait, who's higher than Dickens?
I mean, I know there's plenty,but 26 seems low.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Number one, Agatha Christie

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Suck it.
Bible

Speaker 1 (15:42):
.
Well, it's author.
There's no like known author ofthe Bible.
Jules Verne is king.
Number

Speaker 2 (15:48):
King.
King James.
I believe.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
So.
Number two is Chris Oya hii, whois the founder and president of
Love World, Incorporated whatalso known as Christ Embassy
based in Nigeria.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Number three is Jules Fern for Shakespeare.
Five Enid Blaton, six, BarbaraCurtland.
A lot of people, I don't know.
Uh, yeah.
Danielle Steele Flat, AmirLennon, Hans Christian Anderson,
Steven King is 10.
A bunch of Germans coming innext.

(16:23):
Nora Roberts.
Mark Twain is 17, Dostoevsky is18.
Pope John Paul.
The second is 21.
Leo Tolstoy is 25.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
A lot of surprising.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I would've thought Shakespearewould ha you know, would be
higher.
But

Speaker 2 (16:41):
I mean, I get it.
The, the metric is weird, youknow?
Right.
Because like if you sell atrillion paperback novels,
you're higher on the list.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Right.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
So Yeah.
So that's how Steven King outdoes

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Outsells the Pope.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yeah.
There you

Speaker 1 (16:59):
Go.
Out as, as out translated

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Done.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, he's probablyselling a lot more copies than
the Pope.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah.
Oh, totally.
All right.
So I wasn't expecting thislittle twist and turn that I
found in the research.
Oh.
But there is a little twist andturn.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
Okay.
And keep teasing.
Are you ready?
Just keep teasing for a bit.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
You buckled up.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
I never unbuckled .

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Jacqueline Hyde was published when Stevenson was 36
years old.
But the root of the inspirationcan be traced back to
Stevenson's childhood bedroom.
Stevenson grew up with a cabinetin his bedroom that was built by
a man named William Brody.
Brody was a well respected andsuccessful cabinet maker in

(17:43):
locksmith and edinboro.
He was so good at his job.
He was made deacon of theincorporation of Ritz, which is
described as more of like a, aguild.
You know, it's, he's not like areligious deacon.
It's kind of like being the headof the guild.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
I was gonna say, how does one become a deacon?
What is a deacon?

Speaker 1 (17:59):
It's like a woodworking guild.
So I think a deacon is like aleadership position.
And in the church, obviouslyit's like a religious leader.
But in general, I think therethat phrase is used to be like
the president of a guild orother things can be a deacon.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
So you could be the deacon of this podcast.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
I am the deacon of this podcast.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
What am I

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Assistant to?
The deacon.
So this position also gave him aseat on the city council.
So this guy was connected.
He was important, He was verywell respected, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because of hisrole as a locksmith.
So he, not only was he thiscabinet maker, but he also was a
locksmith.
He, he had like many trades.

(18:43):
And because he was a locksmith,he had access to keys of many of
the well to do homes in theneighborhood.
Right?
Sure.
So it would happen is that, asyou know, someone would drop off
their keys in order to make acopy or whatever.
He would make like a secret waxmold and make his own set of
keys.

(19:04):
So he had like secret backupkeys to everybody's houses.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
They didn't know about this.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Cause that, that's like standard locksmith practice
Now

Speaker 1 (19:13):
What?
But they, but they, you, if yougo to a locksmith in New York,
they don't know where you live.
Um, he knows all of thesepeople.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
So I, I have multiple memories of going to get keys
copied.
And when you go to copy thefront door to your building, so
like, if you don't have like adoorman or, or like an automatic
door or anything like that, uh,and you have to like unlock your
front door.
I've been asked like what myaddress is specifically.
So what, Cause I know I thoughtit was like super, super weird.
And I used to give like a fakeaddress because again, like, why

(19:43):
does this guy need to know what,where I live?
And then one time I just asked,and he's like, Well, I'm a
locksmith.
I I I'm just basically making alibrary of all the locks, all
the front door locks in thebuilding so that, you know, if
you call this locksmith numberto, cuz you're locked out, then
I can just use the key to thatbuilding.

(20:06):
Uh, or if anyone else calls, Ijust have a giant library of
keys.
That way I don't have to pick orbreak a lock.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
They could also break into your house.
So it, wouldn't it be betterjust to have your name or
something versus having youraddress.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Sure.
But, so, you know, say your nextdoor neighbor calls cuz they're
locked out.
And then it's like, well, we canactually get you into the front
door of your building.
I can't get you into the unit.
We'll have to pick that lockhalf the time.
It's because people just walkout the front building door and
it locks automatically.
Mm-hmm.
, you know.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
So that, that's how least how it was explained to
me.
It still seems pretty shady.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah.
Okay.
That's interesting.
I would, I understand the logicof that, of leaving the keys
with the locksmith, but I'mweary of the address piece.
Like, just leave it under myphone number or something, you
know?
Yeah,

Speaker 2 (20:54):
No, I mean, I get it.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
I also don't like it.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Did you do it?
Did some locksmith have accessto our apartment?

Speaker 2 (21:00):
No.
This time, all the buildings,apparently the, the, our front
door key is impossible to copy.
We had to order directly fromthe building.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Oh, right, right, right.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Cause they're jerks.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
We're extra secure.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Mm.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
.
So, Okay.
So what he would do with thesekeys, you ask, well throw'em
away.
He would use them to break intothe homes of the rich and
wealthy in his town undetectedand rob these families.
So in essence, Brody lived thisdouble life to polite society.
He was successful, respected,professional, and he had the

(21:38):
trust of his community.
Not only did he providefurniture and services for the
town, but he also had leadershipand political positions.
Right.
However, behind closed doors,Brody was a burglar, a gambler,
an adulterer.
He had two secret mistresses andbecame the father to five

(21:58):
children.
I'm gonna quote here fromWikipedia quote.
He repeatedly began his criminalcareer around 1768 when he
copied keys to a bank door,installed 800 pounds.
Wow.
Then enough to maintain ahousehold for several years.
In 1786, he recruited a gang ofthree thieves.

(22:19):
John Brown, a thief on the runfrom a seven year sentence of
transportation.
George Smith of Berkshire, alocksmith who ran a grocery shop
in Cowgate.
And Andrew Ainsley a shoemaker.
By 1785, Brody was spending hisevenings gambling at a tavern on
flash market clothes owned by aMr.

(22:40):
Clark.
But his public reputation washigh.
And in the summer of 1788, hewas chosen to sit on a jury in
the high court end quote.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Uh, I just wanna throw in one little factoid
there.
Just, just as a metric, how muchdo you think 800 pounds and 1780
would be today

Speaker 1 (23:00):
In pounds or dollars

Speaker 2 (23:01):
In, in US dollars?
Just because that's what we'remost familiar with.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Mm.
Well, they said you can maintaina household for several years.
He's a rich household too.
So he's, so I would say$1million,

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Uh, that's shooting a little high.
It's 177,000.
It, it rounds up to$178,000.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
You're right.
I guess a million dollars is alot of money to maintain a
household for several

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Years.
I mean, depends on thehousehold.
I

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Was just pic picturing him as like, you know,
a political leader.
Like he has the reputation touphold

Speaker 2 (23:39):
All, in all fairness, I did this conversion to the
pounds right now and the poundis like tanking hard.
Yeah.
So, had we done this a coupleyears ago,

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Who knows?

Speaker 2 (23:51):
It would've, It could have been million.
Would've been a milliontrillions.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Cool Million.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
A cool meal.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
.
So, Right.
So Brody's trajectory here isthat after this initial bank
break in, he kind of gets thetaste for this life of crime, if
you will.
And he's one of those likeexceptionally annoying criminals
cuz he's already kind of like,well to do.
But he then like recruits, hekind of creates this circle.
He has this gambling ring thatgoes on, like, everything about

(24:20):
him is just like a con man.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, heappears as very, very, very well
to do.
Very important, very charming.
But in reality, you know, evenwith like his relationships,
he's not being open and honestwith his partners.
He's lying.
You know, everything is a lie,essentially.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Sounds like someone we know.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
So this goes on for several years, um, until he
faces his downfall.
So I'm quoting here from the allthings interesting article quote
, A planned heist on an exciseoffice failed.
And Brody went to theauthorities to claim a king's.
Pardon?
He ratted out Smith and Ainsley,who were also there.

(25:02):
Mm-hmm.
, who in turnratted out Brody as the man
behind the robberies.
Brody fled to the Netherlands,but he was arrested in Amsterdam
and sent back to Edinboro.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Brody Wood flew to the Netherlands.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
He was then hanged in front of 40,000 people.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
I thought you were gonna say in front of 40 people.
Mike, That's a very specificdetail.


Speaker 1 (25:22):
40,000 is so many.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Is it?
I I guess for

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Then, I mean for like a, I don't know, it just feels
like a large, that's like aconcert, you know?

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Like, we're gonna see Lady Gaga.
We're going to see this criminalbe hang to be killed.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
I guess it's like, So when was this?
This was like 18 nine,

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Like 17 hundreds.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Sorry.
Yeah.
But it's like late 1700 at thispoint.
Yeah.
40,000 people.
Where where was this?

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Edinboro Scotland.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Okay.
I guess, Yeah.
How big was the town?
Like,

Speaker 1 (25:52):
What was, I mean, it's, it's a big city in
Scotland.
But

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah.
I mean, if, if someone isgetting hanged and you don't
have the internet, aren't yougonna go watch?
You have nothing else to do?

Speaker 1 (26:03):
I'm not gonna go watch someone be hanged.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
You can either plow your fields, die of the black
death.
That's the,

Speaker 1 (26:10):
You are wildly all over the place right now.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Or you can go watch this guy.
I'm gonna cut this, the publicexecution

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Before you say something I have to edit out.
So there's actually rumors thatBrody built the JT that he was
hanged on, or the Gallos.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Oh, is that what it, the exhibit is the same thing as
the

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Yeah.
As Galls, correct.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
.
Which, because again, he was awoodworker.
Right?

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
It's kind of like that rumor that like a woman
executed Ted Bundy, you know,

Speaker 2 (26:39):
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Well, Ted Bundy was this very prolific, terrible
serial killer in the UnitedStates.
Killed targeted young women.
Killed them in horrific ways.
A lot of women, like, you know,really obviously had like issues
and you can never see anexecution.
Right.

(27:01):
Was against the death penalty.
They always wear a hood fortheir safety.
But there's all of these rumorsthat

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Do they still do that?

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Mm-hmm.
that her like,that the executioner had these
like very feminine eyelashes andeyes and like, really looked
like a woman.
But like, it's kind of thatthing of like execution lore I
guess.
But also like this revenge ofthe women against, you know,
this man that killed so many ofthem.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Geez.
I, I never knew I was gonna beinterested in execution lore.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Here we are.
Happy October.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
You know, I actually know where we can get an
electric chair.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
I'm really not interested in

Speaker 2 (27:35):
That.
Someone was just talking aboutit the other day, who we are on
set and someone was saying,Anyone want an electric chair?

Speaker 1 (27:41):
That's crazy.
Did you report them?

Speaker 2 (27:44):
No.
It's, it's, These are neededthings.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
I would not allow an electric chair in the home.
I think it's the worst type ofway to die.
Really?

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yes.
The one

Speaker 1 (27:55):
One of no one of though.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Cause I can think of significantly worse ways.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Okay, Mr.
Imagination.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Uh, but that's it.
No, I I, the electric chairscares me very much.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's one of the moreterrifying ways outside of like,
getting real creative withtorture

Speaker 1 (28:12):
E Exactly.
Yeah.
Okay.
So there's a pub in Edinboroughnamed for Brody, as well as one
in Ottawa and one in New YorkCity.
Oh,

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yes.
Is that the Jackline Hyde Club?

Speaker 1 (28:26):
No.
It's really funny you say thatactually though.
Because,

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Because I was outside it and I wanted, I took a
picture for you and then foundout it closed.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
I think we were together.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
No, I took a picture for you and sent it to you.
You just think about it?
No,

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Because I sent it to No, no, no, no.
Okay.
So one of my very, very bestfriends, Olivia, she, she does,
uh, she's designed some of ourmerch before our Bigfoot merch
and our, uh, oui plan chats.
Mm-hmm.
.
So shout out to Olivia, all ofdying.
But Olivia grew up in Manhattanand would go like, had birthday
parties all the time growing upas a kid at Jacqueline Hde.

(29:01):
It was like this very kitchy bar, um, like themed bar, Right.
Like horror themed bar.
And there would be like smokeand it was kind of like a Chucky
cheese, but like for horror forkids.
That's cool.
Yeah.
And so she was visiting, Shedoesn't live here anymore, but
she was visiting a few monthsago and we walked by and she was
like, You don't know what thisis.
And we bound out that I thinkduring the pandemic had closed.

(29:24):
Mm.
We were so bummed.
But anyway, r i p to JacquelineHyde that we never got to go to,
but Olivia said it was bestmemories of her childhood.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
It looked pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah.
Super cool.
We'll have to have Olivia on torecall all of her Jacqueline
Hyde stories.
Sure.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Well maybe that can come in the Jacqueline Hyde
stories episode.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
.
Okay.
So, Right.
We've talked about Brody.
We understand Brody.
Now we're gonna switch back tohow Brody's story intersects
with Robert Lewis Stevenson.
Mm-hmm.
or Robert LouisStevenson.
Let's

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Call him Lewis

Speaker 1 (30:00):
.
So Stevenson grew up in the newtown region of Edinborough.
Stevenson's bedroom was on thesecond floor of the family home.
And at the end of his bed sat amahogany veneer cabinet.
And you can actually look upphotos of this cabinet.
It looks kind of like a talllike Armour type of thing with
two doors.
Okay.

(30:20):
And so, spoiler alert, right.
Brody had built this cabinet.
Hmm.
This was a Brody originalcabinet.
Sure.
And so we have this veryprominent, and this is, you
know, a hundred years later or

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Whatever.
Wait a sec.
Brody was a woodworker and alocksmith.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yeah.
Correct.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
Uh, a man of all, a man for all seasons.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
A renaissance man.
Mm-hmm.
.
I wonder what his favoriteseasons were.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Well, we could ask him, but he's

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Dead.
But he's dead.
Stevenson has this cabinet inhis house growing up.
Mm-hmm.
, I am sure that heis aware of Brody story.
Right.
There's pubs named after him.
It's this big deal inEdinborough, this history.
Sure.
And so it doesn't take a lot toassume, you know, Stevenson
would've heard about this andmaybe it could have helped

(31:08):
inspire a dual personality typesituation.
Mm-hmm.
, especiallysomeone who's very well
respected has this secret lifehas this other side to them.
Right.
Yeah.
Rick Wilson wrote a book calledThe Man Who was Jacqueline Hyde,
The Lives and Crimes of DeaconBrody.
And this book contains aninterview with Stevenson where
he talks about the connectionbetween the character of

(31:30):
Jacqueline Hyde and Deacon BrodyStevenson shares a dream.
He had quote, for instance, allI dreamed about Jackle was that
one man was being pressed into acabinet when he swallowed a drug
and changed into another being.
And the cabinet comes into playthere.
Right.
Like his, he has this like,literal dream.
He has a dream about one manbeing forced into a cabinet,

(31:53):
swallowing a drug coming out.
Another man.
I get the subconscious tiesthere, but also it's literally
the cabinet is the tie in here,you know, Which is

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Interesting.
Not to mention in the bookthere's like a very
unnecessarily Yeah.
Descriptive passage talkingabout the cabinet where the
potion is kept.
Exactly.
I thought that was

Speaker 1 (32:15):
Odd.
It was like the anatomy chapterin, uh, Mobi Dick, the whale
anatomy chapter.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
The one whale anatomy chapter.
You

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Know what I mean?
The, the section.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
But yeah, like, and then they have to, cuz they have
to break into that cabinet atone point and they hire both a
woodworker and a locksmith.
See, which I found interesting.
Why

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Not?
Ru is everywhere

Speaker 2 (32:36):
And they, they, they do get in no problem.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
They get in no problem.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Not no problem.
It was actually quite difficult.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Stevenson goes on to say that Deacon Brody wasn't
part of his night vision quote.
I certainly didn't dream thatmeaning specifically about
Brody.
But in the room in which I sleptas a child in Edinboro, there
was a cabinet and a very prettypiece of work.
It was too, from the hands ofthe original Deacon Brody end
quote.
So it really seems to be no leapof the imagination to say that

(33:05):
Brody inspired the character ofJacqueline Hyde in some ways.
Hmm.
It laid the, the foundation inStevenson's head.
And again, we, like you justsaid, we see callbacks to the
cabinet in the book, we seecallbacks to woodworking and
locksmith.
So I think there's some eresthere and I think it makes the,
the book a more robust listen.

(33:26):
Sure.
When you know about this reallife Brody character and you
know how his life impacted thatof Stevenson's life.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
I absolutely.
It's, it's, I didn't realizethat this was gonna be based on
a, a person

Speaker 1 (33:39):
I know, right.
Kind of interesting.
So what we're gonna talk aboutnext isn't one to one with what
would have inspired Stevenson towrite Jacqueline Hyde.
A because a lot of the researchand the, you know, psychological
understanding of it, I dunno ifthat's the right way to say it,
but a lot of that probablyhappened after he died.

(34:01):
But there are some cases that Ithink might have intersected
with his life, but too, becauseto me, Jacqueline Hyde is a
little bit more of a sciencefiction story than like a, a
tale about like someone whosuffers from multiple
personality.
Right.
It's like, it's a serum inspiredsituation.
Well,

Speaker 2 (34:19):
I, I think it's a fair thing to include even if
the, the term split personalitydisorder or even what it's been
renamed today of what, what

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Is it?
Dissociative Identity

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Disorder.
Thank you.
Uh, e even if these termsweren't even a twinkling in some
medical textbooks, I then thesethings, these ideas were still
around.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Well the cases still exist even if they weren't
defined or understood

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Right.
They would just get classifiedas some other psychosis or
mental illness or something.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Right.
Or something even, you know,

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Not to mention like scientific, you know, we can, we
can do the reverse where, howthese early cases have
influenced so many future, youknow, works later on.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Well that's exactly why I decided to keep it in
because even though, you know,it's, we can't say, Oh, this is
why Stevenson wrote this or thiswas in his life, you know, in
his awareness.
We can say that there's a bunchof works we're gonna talk about
later in the episode that ourinspired by Jacqueline Hyde that
certainly take this researchinto account.

(35:22):
So I just think it like helpsround out the theme in general
of this kind of, you know, dualor more personality within one
character.
Cool.
Let's do it.
Here we go.
Quoting from my clevelandclinic.org, because I don't
wanna mess up any of thesciencey jargon here.
Dissociative identity disorder,d i d is a mental health

(35:44):
condition.
People with d i d have two ormore separate identities.
These personalities controltheir behavior at different
times.
Each identity has its ownpersonal history traits, likes
and dislikes.
D i d can lead to gaps in memoryand hallucinations, believing
something is real when it isn't.

(36:04):
Dissociative identity disorderused to be called multiple
personality disorder or splitpersonality disorder and quote,
according to Cleveland Clinic, di d is usually a result of
trauma, physical or sexual abuseas a child.
Right.
And so the idea is that whensomething, and you hear about
dissociation all the time,right?

(36:24):
With with mental healthconditions.
But if something really terribleis happening to you, the idea is
that your, your brain sort oflike splinters to protect itself
, um, from kind of having todeal with the memories or deal
with the, the terribleness ofwhat's happened.
Mm-hmm.
.
And again, we could do a wholenother exploration of this at
some point, but I just wanted toinclude a few famous cases of d

(36:48):
i d here.
It's not an all inclusive list,but it's just a few cases that I
thought were interesting.
I'm gonna start off with onecase from the 18 hundreds,
again, kind of to illustratewhat was happening during
Stevenson's lifetime.
So this is the case of Louis orLewis VI Vet, as you'll hear
over and over again with theexamples that we're about to

(37:08):
share.
He had a childhood marked byabuse and neglect.
And then later at the age of 17,while he was working outside in
a field, a viper wrapped itselfaround his arm, which caused him
to black out from the fear.
He continued to have convulsionsinto the evening into the years
1880.

(37:29):
He was admitted into an asylumwhere he eventually became
stable for a brief period oftime.
And after being released, hewould then be in and out of
hospitals while theseconvulsions would return.
And so the thing with him isthat right?
Like he ended up with these twodistinct personalities.
Mm-hmm.
one, which, theone clearly, you know, I will

(37:50):
say that remembers maybe thetrauma of the Viper loses the
loss of his legs while the othercan walk.
Totally fine.
Interesting.
Yep.
Why?
Why they say the brain, thebrain body connection.
The brain works in mysteriousways.
, it's believed that hehad up to 10 personalities after
this event and some had theability to walk while others

(38:13):
didn't.
Right.
So it wasn't one to one, it waskind of like these ones could
walk, these ones couldn't.
Hmm.
And we see themes like that alot with cases of d i d.
So the case of Chris CostnerSizemore, she was the real life
inspiration for the book andfilm.
The Three Faces of Eve, ifanyone is familiar with that.

(38:33):
Nope.
Though in reality she had 22different personalities, not
three in the movie.
I think they pair it down tomake it a little more palatable.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
But 22 different personalities.
I'm sure this is a common traitamong people who have this
condition, but some of Chris'spersonalities had varying levels
of skills.
Meaning, for example, some ofthem knew how to drive and some
of them didn't.
Which is, you know, it makessense if you have 22 people,
like, you know how many of themcan drive?

(39:04):
Probably if you can't,

Speaker 2 (39:05):
I don't know.
I'm sorry.
That's just like, it's a littlelame.
Cuz I was expecting like some ofthem are brain surgeons, others
are astronauts.
It's like, no, some, some candrive.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Sure.
If you look at

Speaker 2 (39:16):
It that way.
Others know how to use a spoon.
It's like,

Speaker 1 (39:20):
So there was one case where the patient was cured of
this, of this condition.
The case of Karen over hill whohad 17 distinct personalities.
She again, had suffered fromchildhood abuse at the hands of
both her father and grandfather.
A man named Dr.
Bear was able to help Karenthrough hypnotism and other

(39:41):
therapies to eventuallyintegrate all of these
personalities into onepersonality again.
So she was one, you know,holistic thinker.
I don't know the right way tosay that, but you know what I'm
saying.
And then final, uh, honorarymention here, Tokin Noble of the
UK who had over 100personalities.
And again, this is a result ofextreme trauma and abuse that

(40:04):
she suffered as a child

Speaker 2 (40:06):
And not one could drive

Speaker 1 (40:08):
God.
Okay.
So those are kind of like the,you know, cuz again, the point
of this podcast right?
Is to connect horror into reallife mythology or history.
And so I think those were theways that I saw the story of
Jacqueline Hyde connecting toreal life in, in different
Elements.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
I think you did a great job.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Do we have any historic examples of someone
taking drugs and becoming adifferent person,

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Splitting their personality into an evil murder
and a doctor?

Speaker 2 (40:38):
I mean, that's a little specific, but Sure.
Do we have any of that?

Speaker 1 (40:42):
I think this is science fiction, so no, I don't
think that that really happens.
Mm.
So sorry,

Speaker 2 (40:48):
I was just curious.
You know, you never know.
Sometimes you pull a rabbit out.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
, as we tease at the beginning of the episode,
there are a ton of directadaptations of Jacqueline Hyde,

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Most of which are quite boring.
.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
So true.
Also a ton of more abstractinterpretations.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
Some are less boring.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
So let's start with some of the namesake versions.
And again, we did not watch all19 versions of the film cause

Speaker 2 (41:13):
They're so boring.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
I really like, you know, we picked Jacqueline Hyde
in October because we were like,this is spooky.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
It is.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
And certain versions are spooky, but not the vast
majority are not.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
But also, like you and I had both previously
started the book.
Yeah.
Just, and neither of us hadfinished it just like years
back.
We'd pick, we'd started readingjust, and we'd just like dropped
off.
Uh, JCO and Hyde being in theuniversal monster verse.
Yep.
Uh,

Speaker 1 (41:44):
A monster verse that we

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Love.
We have to round it out.
Yeah.
.
And it's a cool, it also, j oand Hyde hold a very, now that
we're talking in the pop culturesection Yeah.
Hold a very special place in myheart because of a, of a film
that we both really, reallylove.
Come on.
What is it?
Come on.

(42:06):
You can do it.
Come on.
You like this movie,

Speaker 1 (42:11):
The League of Extraordinary gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
That's correct.
A fantastic movie.
Yes.
And also my absolute favoritedepiction of Jacqueline Hyde.
And also I thought this,

Speaker 1 (42:23):
But you haven't seen a universal monster version.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
Uh, no, no.
Well, we, we scrubbed throughsome of the old ones and, and
none of them looked like none ofthe hides look anything like the
Hide from League ofExtraordinary gentlemen.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
No.
Well, yeah, they're much older.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Well, right, but I first off, because League of
Extra Gentleman was my first,uh, exposure to the story of
Jacqueline Hyde.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Uh, and so I thought that when this guy took a po he
would take a potion totransform.
He would, his body wouldphysically morph into this giant
hulking creature.
Right.
Uh, and then eventually thepotion would wear off and he
would turn back in.
You know, it basically be like asuper soldier serum that also
makes you evil.

(43:15):
Uh, which I thought was like sofricking cool.
And then we get into all theother film depictions and that
never happens again.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
They're very, very hit and miss.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
But usually you turn in, he turns into like just
another guy.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Well, I mean, I, I think he turns into something
that's not like hulking but kindof al almost handicapped.
Like in a lot of cases hedevelops like, kind of like a
hunchback or a limp, like thingslike that.
Like he changes physically, butlike in a realistic way where
it's like a split personalityversus a science fiction thing
of somebody like bulking up.

(43:52):
Well,

Speaker 2 (43:53):
I was really confused because in the book, one of the
very first descriptions of Hydeis as a juggernaut.
Like that's the word that theyuse.
You get to the end of the bookand when Jack is describing Hyde
himself and the description is,well he's newer, so he's younger

(44:13):
and he's shorter.
It's like, okay, she's startingto leave child.
What's going on here?
That is not what I picture whenI hear the word juggernaut.
Yeah.
I was picturing hide from Leagueof Extraordinary gentlemen just
dressed in nice clothes thatdon't rip, you know?
Yeah.
Uh, obviously he got hammed upfor that version up, but

(44:35):
somewhere in between I wasexpecting a big monstrous man.
Not just in, in bothphysicality, not just in
character.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Fair enough.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
That's what I have to say about that.
I feel cheated.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
The top ranked of all of the Jacqueline Hyde versions
according to to IMDB is the 1931film, which is just simply
called Dr.
Jacqueline, Mr.
Hyde.
This is the universal monsterversion.
It also makes sense despite itsage.
It's one of the morerecognizable versions for this

(45:08):
reason.
Right.
Because it has the fire power ofthe universal world.
It's a pre-code horror film thatWhat does that mean?
Every time I say that?
You ask that.
Well,

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Because I forget.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
It means before the ratings, you know, before films
had to be censored Got it.
Or censorship.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
If, if I forget, there's someone out there that
doesn't know either.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
It Stars Frederick March and it was nominated for
three Academy Awards and Marchone for best actor a horror film

Speaker 2 (45:40):
In March.
One.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
March is the actor who won for Best.
He won the Academy Award forBest Actor Marsh.
Yes.
Gotcha.
For playing Jacqueline Hyde.
I

Speaker 2 (45:50):
See.
He played both.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Yes.
Okay.
And when I say it was pre-code,it was just barely, it was made
only one year before the ratingscracked down.
Ha.
Got'em.
Well, it's filled with very,very explicit content for the
time.
And it was re-released fiveyears later with eight minutes
of the film removed to meet thenew standards.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Interesting.
Maybe we should watch this.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, we should have watched it for this for

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Sure.
Absolutely.
I feel like we did not do ourdue diligence.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Maybe we can watch it and talk about it on the next,
on the stories episode.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
I guess we didn't scrub through the official one.
We we scrubbed through some ofthe old, because there's
multiple very,

Speaker 1 (46:28):
There's so many.
That's the thing is there's justso many of them.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Oh, you know what?
The official universal onewasn't available on streaming.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Oh.
That's

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Why.
And based, uh, at least on thestreaming services that we have
access to

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Almost all of them.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Which, which is yes to, to our financial burden.
And based off scrubbing througha lot of the other old ones, it
didn't seem worth renting.
But I I'm rethinking thatdecision now.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
Well, we'll watch it for the stories episode.
We'll come back.
Cool.
The film had one of the biggestbudgets of any horror film at
the time

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Coming in hundred dollars

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Over 500,000.
Whoa.
And it was a hit with audiencesgrossing over 1.3 million at the
time in 1931.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
That, that was the box office.
Mm-hmm.
.
That's like a few trillion intoday's money.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
That's right.
There's also an earlier versionof the film from 1920, making it
a silent movie.
Um, this film was actuallyreleased by a Paramount, and you
can watch the entire film onWikipedia.
If you go to the Wikipedia pagefor Clin height, the entire film
is embedded there.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
You just play it on the Yes.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Wow.
You would just play it right inthis Wikipedia player.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
God bless you, Wikipedia,.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
It's a, i people give me for using Wikipedia all the
time, but it really truly is WhoGives gives you.
A lot of listeners now

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Name one, call'em out.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
No.
And again, surprisingly, justbecause it's a silent film from
1920, it comes in at number twowith the highest ranked
Jacqueline Hyde films of AllTime, which a lot of them were
made after the year 2000.
Okay.
So it's just a sense of theJacqueline Hyde landscape is a
little bleak.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Okay.
Is League of Extraordinarygentlemen on that list?
No.
Okay.
Well, that's the problem.
They're clearly not includingthe best movies.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
There you go.
Uh, so in Third Place is amusical version.
So I'm gonna set this up.
There is, this is really a play,right?
There was a musical play versionof Jacqueline Hyde made.
I actually had a few friends whoare in kind of the musical
theater space.
Tell me like that it has somehits.

(48:31):
Like, it's kind of like thiscan't be classic.
Guess who the Star is?
The singer and the star.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Anthony Bourdain.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
David Hasselhoff.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Really?

Speaker 1 (48:40):
Yes.
Wow.
And my friend Alex is like, Hey,there's some bangers in there.
Like, there's some really funsongs.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
I'm a doctor.
He's a bad guy.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
They, they, Yeah.
They hired you.
That's, that's hire, Hire

Speaker 2 (48:52):
You to write It.
That's the single, the, the Hitsingle.
So

Speaker 1 (48:54):
If anyone's looking for a very campy, fun version,
like a good, you know, PopcornNight with Your Friends.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
What's, what, what is that version called?

Speaker 1 (49:03):
It's called like, Jacqueline Hide the Musical.
Okay.
Because it's, they films theplay and what, So it's like a
filmed play.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
And what year is it?
Because you're gonna have toThat's, I it's impossible to
sort through these cuz they'reall named the same fricking
thing.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
It's from 2001.
There's also a film that Iactually had watched growing up
because my, we had a copy of it,I think on DVD or VHS Mary Riley
from 1996,

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Which we did watch.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
We did Watch Stars Are Beloved Julia Roberts and
John Malkovich.
It's based on a novel by thesame name from 1990 written by
Valerie Martin.
And it's a retelling ofJacqueline Hyde through the eyes
of Mary who's a maid in the JLLhousehold.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Quick question,

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Quick answer.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Is John Malkovich canceled?

Speaker 1 (49:51):
I don't think so.
I

Speaker 2 (49:52):
Great cuz I love him.
Oh, I just confuse him withKevin Spacey.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Kevin Spacey is indeed canceled.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
He is indeed canceled.
Yeah.
Uh, so I I really love JohnMalkovich.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
I've never seen being John Malkovich.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
It's such a fun movie.
Is

Speaker 1 (50:05):
It a horror movie?

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Not at

Speaker 1 (50:07):
All.
Oh, I was like, maybe we canwatch it for horror movie

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Club.
No, we can just watch it forfun.
Oh, okay.
Um, it's, I, I just, I love hisstuff and also my father is
obsessed with Julia Roberts.
Oh sure.
She was a staple staple in ourhousehold.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
I think all fathers are

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Not all fathers.
Some fathers like other fathers

Speaker 1 (50:27):
.
Sure.
Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
I didn't even know this movie existed.
So the fact that there is aJulia Roberts movie that I don't
think he even knows about isgonna really make his day.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
You can give him the, the, the DVD as a gift.
Let's

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Just keep the vhs we'll keep it simple.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
, unlike the universal horror version of the
story, this film was a boxoffice flop.
Despite its big name talent, itonly made back 12 million of the
47 million budget.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
I mean, it looked so expensive.
.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
It did.
Yes.
I thought it looked like amasterpiece theater film.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
I disagree.
I think, I mean, first off theyhad to spend 39 million on Julie
Roberts, uh, 40 bucks to getJohn Mavi.
Um, and then the rest was theincredible set design that

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Well we, you and I went back about whether they
were on like in a studio or on alocation.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
I think, and we could probably solve this with I n db,
but we're not going to, we'rejust gonna wildly speculate.
I think it was all built sets.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Well then yeah, that's gonna cost a lot of
money.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Simp for a couple reasons.
One, there's some sets, somewere a hundred percent sets,
like the, the, uh, operation,the operating theater, What's it
called?
Is that the

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Yeah.
The operating theater.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Yep.
Um, but also even when we'reoutside in the world, we never
see a wide shot.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Well, the outside I definitely think like the
sidewalk and like the frontstoop, all that was definitely
like a set.
But to me I'm like, why don'tyou just get a really cool,
like, for all these interiors,like, like a really cool British
mansion house or something, youknow,

Speaker 2 (52:05):
I mean, which they might have, but also, you know,
they got, they got JohnMalkovich money

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Right.
That 40, which

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Means there's a lot left over in the budget to build
sex.
Um, also one more thing aboutthis movie, and I think this is
why it might not have done well,at least this was the, the big
glaring issue with this moviefor me.
Sure.
So when Jack turns into hide, hebecomes John Malkovich with a

(52:35):
wig and everyone's like, Oh myGod, who are you?
It's like, you're the the sameguy, dude.
Uh, there's there's really nomistaking this, which I just
found so silly.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Yeah, it def that part is definitely silly.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Like he is such a distinctive looking person.
It's not even like they changedhis facial hair, his other str
nothing.
They put him in a wig and thathe was suddenly a different
person.
And his acting is great.
So everyone has like UK accents,right?

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Well I think, I mean I'm no expert in accents, but I
think maybe Mary Riley wassupposed to be Irish.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Uh, yeah, she seemed very, she was doing a bit of an
Irish accent.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Like she was, uh, immigrant.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Right.
But then you had but everyoneelse doing a hundred percent
American.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Yeah,

Speaker 2 (53:27):
No, not even attempt to do an accent.
And I'm sure they tried it andthey're like, Mm, no, it's not
working.
And instead of casting someonethat actually do the role, well
they're just like, you knowwhat?

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Just make him American.
Just do

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Your own voice.
That's makes perfect sense.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
I mean, Julie Roberts , God bless her, like we love
her, but her accent was a littlehit and miss sometimes.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Yeah.
She does a better ErinBrockovich.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Yeah.
Oh, she's, she's ama like, I'mnot here to talk about anybody.
It was really just the choicesof the production, you know?
No,

Speaker 2 (53:58):
It was a fun movie.
I really, I really enjoyedwatching it.
Uh, but I can a hundred percentunderstand why it would flop at
the box office

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Going back in time a bit.
There's a TV movie from 1968that Alan made us watch.
For some reason we had all ofthese really fun Jacqueline Hyde
options and he said, no, this TVmovie from 1968, we immediately,
I think after the openingcredits ended, we turned it off.
That's how bad it was.

(54:28):
Oh, oh,

Speaker 2 (54:28):
Oh.
That's where I got my notionsabout, uh, JK creating the
formula to remove inhibitions.
You

Speaker 1 (54:37):
Got any notions?
We watched it for 30 seconds.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
No, that's not true.
You left and I kept watching.
Uh, and that's like, cuz youhave, I don't even know who was
who because no one introducedthemselves.
They'll just call each other Mr.
.
Uh, so I assume one of them wasj and he was defending his
position about how if if, uh,the medical field got rid of

(55:01):
moral constraints, how think ofthe wonders we could do that was
like right in the opening scene.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Well, that stars Jack P And that's all I'm gonna say
about that.
I don't think we're recommendingthat as, as a Jacqueline Hyde
film to watch or series to

Speaker 2 (55:17):
Watch.
It's an excellent thing to puton as background at a party.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
.
There you go.
Cause

Speaker 2 (55:24):
It's got it's nice four three aspect ratio.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Yeah.
It's like a, a hip history thingto

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Do.
They filmed it on tape.
Yeah.
They look, it looks like theymastered on the VHS.
Uh, it's, it's truly, And the,the frame rate looks like a soap
opera.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
There's a film from 1971 called Dr.
Jeckle and Sister Hde that Ireally wanted to watch, but I
was vetoed to watch the TVmovie.
Sorry.
Here is the Im db tagline.
A Victorian scientist tests aserum that transforms him into
sensuous murders.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Is is, Oh, am I?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
There's also a film called Edge of Sanity from 1989.
Im db tagline when Henry J'sexperiments with cocaine have
gotten out of control, hetransforms into a hideous Jack
Hde as Hyde.
He searches the London streetsat night for his prey and
whorehouses and opium dens.
What the?

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Why

Speaker 1 (56:20):
Why am I this one Allen, this one stars Anthony
Perkins.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Why are didn't watch it

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Because you wanted to watch the TV move.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
I'm sorry.
You

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Ruined it.
I'm sorry you didn't ruin

Speaker 2 (56:31):
It.
I know.
And then we had to watch reallygive story general again cuz
it's so good.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
.
There is also a film from 2007called JK quoting from imdb
London 2007.
Tom Jackman is the only livingdescendant of Dr.
Jackle and Mr.
Hyde.
He has made a deal with his darkside, a body share.
What Mr.
Hyde doesn't know is that Tomhas a family, there's a wife and

(56:57):
two children that he'll doanything to protect from his
dark side with all the resourcesof modern technology and the
best surveillance hardware.
He's determined to keep his darkside in line.
He's done a deal with his owndevil.
And then just to fire Ra rattlethrough some here, Jacqueline
Hyde from 1990, another TVmovie.
Of course, Abbott and Costellomeet Dr.

(57:18):
J and Mr.
Hyde from 1953.
And finally, the one thing wedid watch for this episode, the
Scooby Do episode of Chuckle.
And

Speaker 2 (57:28):
I, uh, not entirely, we watched, We Acci we thought
we were watching the original.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
We that up too.
We

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Did, We, we watch It was kind of a callback to the
original series.
There's a whole J one Hydeepisode and in this one it's in
one of the new Scooby-Doo seriesand they go onto a movie lot,
uh, because they're remaking themovie that they made in the

(57:58):
original series.
So it's like a callback to theoriginal Scooby Do episode.
Yeah.
It also wasn't very good,but the original Scooby Do
series is solid gold.
So we should really,

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Right.
I only really like watch theoriginal Scooby do and then
Scooby do and the Witches ghost.
Of course.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Of course,

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Of course.
All right.
So those are like some filmsthat we're highlighting, again,
not holistic, but films thatwe're highlighting with the
namesake Jacqueline Hyde.
So now we're gonna talk aboutfilms that follow the pattern of
Jacqueline Hyde.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Okay, here we go.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
If you haven't seen Split from 2016, it's an M Night
Shalon film starting JamesMacAvoy and a Do You Like It?
Love

Speaker 2 (58:38):
It.
And that character carries overto the follow up in the trilogy
Yeah.
Of uh, Glass, I believe.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Yeah.
Or Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Cause the first one Unbreakable then comes split
then.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah, yeah.
So it's an extreme multiplepersonality story.
Three girls are kidnapped by asingle man who's been diagnosed
with 23 different distinctpersonalities.
They must try to escape beforethe apparent emergence of a
frightful new 24th personality.
Yeah.
I, I like Split.
I like the series.

(59:09):
I like all three.
They're,

Speaker 2 (59:11):
They're super fun.
I always forget that this is anMny Shawan movie because it's
the, they're, I mean Split iscuz it's a, a bits more thriller
esque.
Yeah.
But like Unbreakable, you don'tget that vibe very much at all.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Oh really?
I feel like I associateUnbreakable the most out of the
three cuz it was so muchearlier.
So it felt like, like I rememberit so clearly being like, Oh,
it's M Night, you know?
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
I think Unbreakable came out during a time when a
lot of other superhero movieswere starting to come out.
It was before like Ironman.
Right.
You know, that's like thedefinitive turning point that
created the Marvel Cinematicuniverse.
So this was during a time oflike the weird Fantastic four
movie or the First Hulk, youknow, and this was supposed to

(01:00:00):
be like, ah, another superheromovie, but this doesn't feel
like a superhero movie at all.
I love this movie.
It's so fun.
It's like a really awesomecharacter piece of like, what
would it be like if someonedeveloped superpowers in the
real world?
And then You

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Mean Unbreakable?

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Yes.
And then that carries over intosplit of, well, what if there
was a villain in the real world?
You know, what if there wassomeone who has powers who is
also evil?
It's just a cool premise.
And like that premise has been,uh, explored in many other, in
many other stories.
But for me, this was a, this isa special one.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
I guess you're right too.
And Bec I kind of forgot aboutthe like, elevated elements of
those characters.
And I think that kind of ties itin really nicely to Jacqueline
Hyde because we were talkingbefore about like, Oh, it's
Science Fictiony.
Mm-hmm.
, but so areUnbreakable and Split.
Really?
Yeah.
You know, they're not like Hu ahuman who has multiple
personality disorder.

(01:00:57):
It's this like extension of thatinto the realm of like, he can
climb the walls.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Well yeah, it, I mean, sorry, spoilers for Split.
Yeah.
But,

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Um, that's, that's fine.
You guys still watch

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
It?
It is.
For the vast majority of themovie, it's just a guy Yeah.
With multiple personalities.
And then you think like, Oh wow,what's this last one gonna be?
And the last one he actually hassuperpowers.
Yeah.
It's like this, this, thisforeboding thing actually
warrants that foreshadowing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Yeah, for sure.
Next, Alan, we have a littlecharacter I'll say cuz it spans
many movies and, and mediums acharacter called The Hulk.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
I mean, I just touched on it saying

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Take

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
It Away, talking about the, you know, talking
about the First Hulk movie,which was not the first Hulk
movie.
Actually, I don't know, was itthe first Hulk movie?
I know there was like theseventies TV show with Lou Rno.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
Well, the comic books precede any TV or movie.
Of

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Course.
The, uh, the Hulk I think camein the sixties.
I'm not quite sure.
My classic Hulk is a bit rusty.
Oh boy.
However, yeah.
For anyone unfamiliar, you havea very normal doctor, Dr.
Bruce Spanner, but who turnsinto this hulking monstrosity
who's

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Green?

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
He is green, Yes.
As soon as we were decided to dothis episode.
Yeah, I know.
I immediately thought of Leagueof Extraordinary Gentleman and
their Hulk character is Hyde.
Like he's the tank of the team.
Yeah.
And he's this like very cleverlittle Doctor, um, who
then would take a formula tolose his capacity for science

(01:02:45):
and instead gain it in bra.
Mm-hmm.
like that's hisrole.
He can, he can switch roles, ifyou will, on the team.
And just like the Hulk, hismonstrous persona cannot be
trusted, cannot be relied uponuntil they finally find the
harmony between the two personaswhere there's some kind of trust
develops.
And I, you know, Hulk has alwaysbeen a very, one of my favorite

(01:03:07):
superheroes holds a very strongplace in my heart.
And there are so many storiesabout Bruce Banner on the run,
trying his absolute best to keepwhat he, what he views as his
evil persona under wraps rightaway from society can't hurt
anybody and he'll do anything hepossibly can to make that

(01:03:28):
happen.
It's very much like JacklineHyde.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Final thing I'm gonna talk about here.
In 1963, a non horror film wasreleased.
And if you look at the rankedJacqueline Hyde films, in Order
of Popularity on imdb, this oneactually comes up as number one.
I'm talking about the originalNutty Professor from 1963.

(01:03:52):
Yeah.
Okay.
This version was writtendirected in Stars Jerry Lewis,
along with Stella Stevens inDelmore.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Why are you limiting yourselves to just the original?

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
I'm not, and I, I had , I have not seen it, but it's
what, when you look up the bestJacqueline Hyde movies of all
time, this is the number oneversion.
Not like the Eddie Murphyversion, like this version of
the film.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
I have not seen the original, but the Eddie Murphy
version is remarkable

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Gold.
Yeah.
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Love Eddie Murphy.
Okay.
So I'm basing all of thesecomments on the Eddie Murphy
version.
But yeah, you have a scientistwho then can take a formula and
become a different person with acompletely different persona,
different outlook on life.
And there's just this balancingact between the two people

(01:04:40):
trying to, two people trying tolive one life.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Right.
It's very, very, very similar toJacqueline Hyde,

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Except that Eddie Murphy doesn't stomp on children
that we know of.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
I think that, like everything that we've mentioned
with the exception of Split isreally, really like verbatim,
almost Jacqueline Hyde, likeHulk Day professor, you know,
they really follow the format.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
I'd say Hulk is a bit more of a stretch, but it's in
the right vein.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
But it's a doctor, you know, like there's elements
there.
He's

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
A scientist.
He's, you know,

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
So is al

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
That's true.
He's more medical.
But actually, I mean, BruceBanner specializes in, uh, gamma
radiation.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
Which in turn has quite a bit to do with medical
physiology.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Yeah,

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
That's what I have to say about that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Jacqueline hides lasting success speaks to human
nature at its core.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Did you write that?

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
It's cool.
Say it again.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Jacqueline hides lasting success speaks to human
nature at its core.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
You're such a good writer,

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
.
Thank you.
The complexity of what it meansto be good or bad, and I have a
lot to say about this, right?
Like, I don't think people areborn evil.
I think there's like a lot ofnurture that goes in.
I also think there's mentalhealth conditions and all kinds
of things like that, but I don'tthink people are inherently

(01:06:04):
evil.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
Some people are,

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
But I, it's literally the opposite of what I just
said,.
But I do think that there arelike a range of human emotions
and reactions and trauma andmental health issues and all
these things that go into quoteunquote creating this spectrum
of good and bad.
That being said, I think humanscan be many things, right?

(01:06:26):
Like I think you can be both areally great person and have,
you know, another side to youand that doesn't necessarily
mean that you're good or bad,you know, I, it's just whatever.
I think that kind of doing theresearch here calls upon some of
these like themes of how wethink about this, especially
within ourselves.
And I think we are always ourharshest critics as we all know.

(01:06:50):
Sure.
It just kind of is like thisreminder that people can be
multiple things, you know?
And like I, this is really likeon a tangent now, but like, it
can be really hard if you'redealing with somebody who's
difficult and I'm not talkingabout a murderer, right?
That aside, if you're dealingwith somebody who's difficult,
and I think the reminder alwaysis that something has happened

(01:07:10):
to make, to make that behaviorcome out of them.
Sure.
If they're being really harshwith you or whatever, it's cuz
they're going through somethingor they're feeling something or
they've experienced somethingthat has made them weary of this
thing.
So I think it's just like a goodreminder for us all that like to
be gentle with each other and toremember that you don't always
know what's going on with people, um, and what's causing them to

(01:07:33):
be quote unquote bad or mean orwhatever, because it's really
usually something that's sad andthat I wish they didn't have to
deal with.
And it's manifesting in a waythat's annoying and they should
take responsibility for that.
But at the end of the day, youknow, be kind to each other.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
That's right.
If you have like a dictatorperforming genocide, you don't
know what their home life islike to

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Make like a poignant like point about, I'm talking
about like your day to dayinteractions with people, not,
you're not running into adictator on the street.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Usually not.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
I I wholeheartedly believe that people like
dictators or you know, thosekinds of people who again, I
think became that way because oftheir environments, but that
those people should not have anypower.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
I didn't realize you were pro dictator.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
I'm not, I'm not saying that a pro dictator at
all.
.
I'm saying like, lock'em up,throw'em away.
But I'm not saying if you lookfor example, I'm getting
flustered.
Yeah, go ahead.
If you look at serial killers,Uhhuh, I'm not pro serial
killer.
I'm anti serial killer.
If you look at serial killersand quote unquote psychopaths,

(01:08:46):
so, so often they suffertraumatic brain injuries as kids
so often.
Mm.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
I don't know what the exact rate is, but it's very
high.
Um, they also usually sufferextreme abuse and neglect,
extreme trauma.
There's a lot that goes intogetting someone to that point.
Sure.
And again, I'm not a doctor, sotake other grain of salt, but
that's, that's my soap box ofthe day

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
Is a, is a good box to end on.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
I'm actually going to leave us with a quote here from
Stevenson's original, Thestrange case of Dr.
Jackle and Mr.
Hyde quote, With every day andfrom both sides of my
intelligence, the moral and theintellectual, I thus drew
steadily near to the truth bywhose partial discovery I have
been doomed to such a dreadfulshipwreck that man is not truly

(01:09:34):
one, but truly two.
And so the point that he ismaking here is that mankind in
general is not good or bad thatmankind in general is both

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
Right.
They're gray

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
And Yeah.
That every individual, not justJacqueline hide.
Mm-hmm is both thatwe all are

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Right and it's healthy to be such.
Correct.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
The end

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
.
Okay.
Bye.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Well hang on here.
So before we leave you, just areminder, we have some very,
very, very exciting JacquelineHyde theme stories.
In addition to John Cook'sexcerpt of the original text
next week, we also have anotherincredible story that of over
the moon to share.
And of course, don't forgetabout our merch sale code.

(01:10:18):
Spooky 25, 20 [e-mail].
Click on merch.
I hope that this episode helpsus kick off October in a funky,
spooky way.
I think it's the, the subjectmatter is not quite as dark
maybe as we were expecting it tobe, but I think we left you with
some interesting, you know,films to explore Dr.

(01:10:40):
Jacqueline's, Sister Hyde, forexample.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
Also there's, uh, Henrietta and Eleanor, I think
is the name

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Right?
The like Feminine spin.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
Yeah.
That, that I that was a fun one.
I liked that a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
It's a book.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
Uh, yes.
Uh, I, that was a book I pickedup a while ago was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
There you go.
Yeah.
Again, there's like endless,endless things to talk about
here.
We're going to also be posting,um, some in more in depth
reviews of some of these thingson lunatic project.com.
If you're not aware, we posttons of articles every week
about kind of things that followthe themes that we're covering
on the podcast, as well as justother things that, that we've,

(01:11:19):
we run into.
Um, so check out lunaticproject.com for all of our
latest articles.
There'll definitely be someJacqueline Hyde content coming
out for the next few weeksthere.
And happy October everyone,We're gonna leave you here.
Stay safe.
I hope you say extra spooky nowthat we're in the holy month and
we'll talk to you very soon.
Bye bye.