September 24, 2024 • 56 mins
Abby is thrilled to present this conversation with our friend The Ghoul Guide. I sit down with Courtney Eastman to discuss the basics of ghost hunting, her approach to paranormal investigation, some of the most haunted locations in the United States and across the globe.
Follow Courtney @TheGhoulGuide on all platforms.
Get Lunatics Merch here. Join the discussion on Discord. Listen to the paranormal playlist I curate for Vurbl, updated weekly! Check out Abby's book Horror Stories. Available in eBook and paperback. Music by Michaela Papa, Alan Kudan & Jordan Moser. Poster Art by Pilar Keprta @pilar.kep.
Follow us on TikTok, X, Instragram and YouTube.
Join the conversation on Discord. Support us on Patreon.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode
of the Lunatics Radio Hourpodcast.
I am beyond thrilled to besitting here finally after many
years of being internet friendswith Courtney Eastman of the
Ghoul Guide.
Welcome to the podcast,courtney.
Oh my goodness, thank you somuch for having me.
It is such a pleasure.
(00:40):
Your Instagram account,honestly, is like I feel like my
portal into the world of theparanormal, which I'm only an
imposter and observer in, andyour content is so engaging and
you go to like all the placesthat I want to go to and I'm so
thrilled to be talking to youfinally.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I know what it's been like, what like almost three
years now, and this is like aface to face.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
It's wild.
It's wild, but I also loveInstagram for bringing new
friends.
So many of the great people weknow are from Instagram, which
is amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Honestly, that's like how I met half of my friend
group that I have today wasreally just Instagram, like us
DMing each other and then likejumping on, like investigations
or like going to events togetherand I'll just kind of all
happen, naturally.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, so for anybody who doesn't follow you, I
believe I'm quoting that yousort of describe yourself as a
paranormal travel blogger.
Is that right, I call?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
it like a haunted travel blogger.
Okay, I love going out thereand sharing the haunted history
within some of these places.
I grew up in Western New Yorkso we have a very rich haunted
history.
We just have rich history herein general.
Yeah, there was a lot of talesand stuff that I love and, you
know, just growing up I wantedto share the stories and I also
wanted to share some of thelocations that I've always just
(01:54):
been like fascinated by, likeWaverly Hills or, you know, like
Rolling Hills, all those places.
So it all just kind of likeblended in together and I just
thought haunted travel bloggerwas like the easiest way to like
put it all together.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, it's a perfect.
It's a perfect summary.
So you spend a lot, especiallyin the warmer months.
Majority of your weekends.
It feels like traveling to allof these locations and
investigating them right.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, I think this year I logged like 13,000 miles.
Oh my gosh, between March andthe the end of November, wow.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
And being in Western New York is kind of like a great
, I feel, like spot because it'svery accessible for you to
drive to many different statesand kind of explore that way.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, I'm pretty lucky because, like you said,
I'm in Western New York, so it'sonly about maybe like an hour
to go to Erie, pennsylvania andan hour and a half to go to Ohio
.
So this past week I was inPennsylvania twice.
Just wow for fun that's thedream yeah, I was just like I'm
(02:59):
bored, what am I gonna do timeto go south like and just keep
driving.
I'm very lucky that way, butit's funny because, like
whatever I say, I'm from NewYork, everyone just assumes I'm
from the city and like you're,you're from the city, so like
you kind of get it, but I amprobably about like eight hours
away from you.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I feel that a lot, because I feel like to what your
point earlier a lot of theparanormal haunted.
There's certainly stuff in NewYork don't get me wrong in New
York city, but there's so muchif you have the ability to have
a car and drive out a few hours,which I don't have.
We don't have a car.
We live in the city and like,for example, I'm obsessed with
Lilydale and I want to go toLilydale so badly but it feels
(03:39):
like right, it's like so close,but it feels like I'd have to
like fly to Buffalo and rent acar.
You know, it's like it's sohard to logistically figure out
how to get there.
So I am very jealous of whereyou're positioned and kind of
the access that you have tothings.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I mean that's really funny that you mentioned
Lillydale, because I've lived inwestern New York for all of 30,
31 years now and I've only justrecently went to Lillydale.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Oh, you went.
Can you tell me everything?
How was it so?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
we.
So I actually was jumping on afilming weekend with my friends
and haunted nights.
We did an event on a Fridaynight and then the rest of the
weekend it was just us filmingand we didn't really know where
we were going to, where we weregoing to go.
So on the way to Dunkirkbecause we were going to the
Dunkirk Lighthouse and we weretrying to like start heading
home we stopped at Lilydalebecause the guys rented a room
(04:29):
at the one haunted house thereor the one haunted hotel.
It's a very, very peacefulplace.
We definitely didn't like getto do any of like the
inspiration stump or like any ofthat type of type of stuff, but
we walked around.
It was very, very peaceful.
If you ever get a chance to go,I highly suggest it.
Like it's more active in thewarmer months and like there's
(04:53):
some psychics who live that likeit's a psychic community, if
you don't know what it is.
So, um, there are some psychicswho just accept walk-offs or
you have to book.
So it's kind of just like youcan go for the day and like you
never really know what you'regoing to get.
So like that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah, I'm so fascinated by it.
My family has like a longhistory with spiritualism and so
it's kind of like this likeultimate destination where, like
we have, like me and my mom,like we have to go to Lilydale
and like just you know, likebook with a psych, but it feels
overwhelming to do a whole trip.
But someday, someday we will gofor sure.
I'm manifesting that for you.
(05:27):
Thank you, thank you.
Okay, so this is going to seemlike a silly question to ask you
, but I'm going to do it anyway,because we ask everybody on our
podcast when we have guests ifthey've had a paranormal
experience.
I know that you have, you'vetalked to me about them before,
but if you had sort of oneparanormal experience that you
were going to say to somebodylike Alan say, who's like super
(05:49):
skeptical, as kind of likeyou're like you know, party,
party trick, paranormal story,which one would you, which one
would you say?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
There's like four that come to mind right now, and
I think I told you guys the onefor one of your episodes, so
I'm going to go with the secondone that's jumping in my head
right now and it's maybe themost recent.
Over the summer it was theweekend of the filming weekend,
when we went to Lilydale.
We had an event at WestVirginia State Penitentiary.
It was like our last time therefor the for like the year and
(06:20):
we were all hanging out and itwas towards the end of the night
at one point.
We were all hanging out and itwas towards the end of the night
At one point.
We were all hanging out andthey all looked at me and
they're like hey, we havehandcuffs, let's handcuff you
for a solo for 10 minutes.
And I was so against it, Iwanted no part of it because
they wanted to put me in likeRed Snyder's cell.
Do they literally meanhandcuffing you?
(06:40):
Yep, I bitched and moaned theentire time and I was like I
don't want to do this, but yet Iwas still walking to like go do
it, we get in the cell and Isit on the bed and I pull my
feet up because I'm terrified ofsomething pulling like pulling
my feet underneath.
My friends put the handcuffs onme so I was handcuffed to the
bed.
So everyone left.
I was just me.
(07:00):
They're all like we're justgonna hang out in the courtyard.
We're right there, just yell,yell if you need us.
And little did I know.
My friend dylan was in the cellnext to me getting ready to
scare me because everyone lovesto scare me they.
They learned that they couldscare me at waverly, so like it
was game over.
After that I thought everyoneleft and I have a video of this.
I haven't posted it yet butit's coming soon.
(07:23):
I feel like maybe, like this isthe podcast, I have to post it,
for I I had my phone set uplike on the little sink and I
was like doing like this littlemonologue, like hey, so my
friends left me like handcuffedin resnit herself and there was
this huge pound on the door andI was like you could see me jump
.
And then my friend d Dylan jumpsout and he was like it was me
(07:43):
and I was like you ever like getout of here.
And then, um, as I was yellingat him at one point, I was like
are you gonna let me do this orwhat?
And then you just hear boom andhe goes that wasn't me.
And I go.
So that was Steve.
And he goes.
I'm the only one in here andyou're locked in here.
So, so like that that moment Ihave it all on camera.
(08:05):
I have Dylan standing in thedoor saying it wasn't him and
then you have probably a minuteof me trying to process it all.
It was just like oh so it wasSteve and he goes.
No, everyone's outside.
I'm just like well, what do youmean?
And like the reality of like mebeing handcuffed, sitting in
(08:27):
this thing like in the cell waslike really setting it.
And then he bolted so I waslike literally alone.
Um, thank god, nothing reallyhappened after that.
It was like a quiet EP session,but that bang and because like
I felt the vibration on my back,yeah, like that had to be
someone who's like nope, there'severyone's outside except for
me.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Wow, that's wild, that's so scary.
Are you very jumpy?
Yes, yeah, me too, me too.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I like.
So my day job it kind of woreout my nerves because I was
working in a behavior room forkids with special needs so I was
always kind of like in a fightor flight mode and now after
getting out of the classroom, mynerves are coming down from it.
But then they realize that theycan scare me and I'm so in my
head that like I don't, I don'treally like see it coming, so
(09:17):
I'm always so jumpy so they canjust get me whatever they want.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I am the same I and people always give me flack.
They're like don't you lovehorror?
I'm like, yeah, but I'm stillvery scared all the time.
So yeah, it's, it is my reality.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, I'm like a ghost hunter who's like kind of
afraid of the dark but likewon't admit it.
I'm just like afraid of theunknown.
Like if it's darkness inside myhouse I like it, but if it's
like unfamiliar darkness I'mlike I don't want any part of
that.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
That's fair, Okay.
So when you were just talking,you sort of inspired me to
wonder you go on a lot ofinvestigations.
How often do you feel like youencounter activity?
Is it every time?
Is it less frequent than that?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So reality of it is is that you are not going to get
paranormal activity everywhereyou go every single night.
There are times where we walkaway with a lot of stories.
There are times where we don'tat all, and that's completely
okay, because to me that's thebeauty of the paranormal,
because it literally is theunknown.
So if you have an experienceone night and you go back and
nothing happens, then that kindof like builds credibility for
(10:20):
like the first thing to happen.
Right, I'd say like it's kindof like an even five, like on a
scale of 10 from like one to 10.
It's kind of neutral because I'malso a firm believer that it's
all in the energy you bring intoit too.
So interesting, like with thedifferent, like groups of people
that come in, can that add tothe activity, can that take away
from it?
(10:40):
So I feel like there's a lot ofdifferent factors, but I would
say like an even five.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Okay, I love that.
That feels like a really honestanswer.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Say that like the paranormal shows that you see
out there, those are allproduced so like of course I
personally like Kindred Spiritsas a paranormal show to watch
because you can kind of see itbreak off in the like you know
that they're there for like aweek and like you can see the
different day-to-dayinvestigations, but like when
it's just like an episode ofghost adventures or ghost
(11:08):
hunters, they're really therefor like two nights and if they
don't get something, like theykind of right I don't want to
say fake it, but like they kindof have to like blow up the
things that like aren't reallythere alan works in film and tv
full-time and he has worked on aghost hunting show before.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
He's not said I actually don't even know which
one it was, but probably causehe doesn't remember, but he
that's why he's so skeptical ofthem, because he's like I've.
I've been on them and I I seehow it's produced, and so he's
like I.
I wouldn't put all of your he'slike.
I'm sure sometimes it's real,but it's.
It's.
Sometimes you have to.
They're on the hook to makegood TV and that's their job,
(11:46):
right, so it's.
You know.
I understand the, the dualityof it.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
And I kind of feel like that's what's happening in
like the YouTube world now,because YouTube is like YouTube
paranormal is kind of a bigthing with, like the Sam and
Colby crowd.
So like you have people who arelike oh my God, this place is
insanely haunted, blah, blah,blah.
But oh my god, this place isinsanely haunted, blah, blah,
blah.
But it's like, yeah, butthey're only here for a set
amount of time and they knowthat they have to make an
episode and there's a few littletips and tricks that you can do
(12:11):
.
The REM pod will go off ifsomeone hits a walkie.
If you get a text message, yourK2s will go off.
So I'm not saying that they'refaking it, but I'm also saying
that there is a lot of goodentertainers out there and they
know what they're doing andthere's a part of me that
respects them for knowing whatthey're doing, but also, at the
(12:32):
same time, it's like stopmisleading everyone.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Right, right, it's a very delicate line to balance.
Yeah, how do you think aboutand define the paranormal?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Like I know that's a loaded question, but I liked
what you were saying earlierabout the energy of the people
who are there influences it,Like how do you think about what
you believe to be?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
the paranormal.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Oh, this is such a fun question, so my two theories
kind of like lead into one.
I guess you can say, like I said, I'm a firm believer about, you
know, the energy and the energyimprints that we leave behind,
because energy just doesn't goaway, and if you think about the
theories in the past, like thestone tape theory, how energy
embeds itself in like limestoneor like quartz and stuff and
(13:15):
then replays itself.
But I also love playing withthis idea that what if we're the
ghosts?
And what if we are making thesehauntings?
Mainly because of time slipsand also our energy too?
So you have you kind of have tothink about it in a residual
(13:35):
type of thing.
Say, you and I were going to aplace like waverly hills.
What if we rounded the cornerand all of a sudden we were
transported back into the 1930sor you know the height of
tuberculosis, and in that momentwe were in this like time slip
(13:56):
where we saw a glimpse of like anurse, and then she saw us too
and was like who are they?
So she goes back to her friendsand tells a story and we end up
becoming the ghost story thatwe hear about so many years ago.
It's this huge rabbit hole thatyou, that like you, can go down
whenever there's like a dullmoment in like an investigation.
(14:17):
This is what we throw out tolike get everyone's mind going.
So there's that in like termsof like being paranormal, but
also in the energy of beingresidual where you know.
We just throw our energy outthere, like when you're really
mad or you know you're reallysad.
It leaves an imprint and thenover time things are just right
(14:37):
in the universe to get that toplay over and over again.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, that's actually very similar to my like
uneducated theories on theparanormal, because I also
believe, like how do you destroythe energy of somebody?
Right?
Like it feels like you know,there's so much more to us than
our bodies, so when our bodydies, it doesn't mean every bit
of us dies.
And I also feel like the sameway, like the way energy can
(15:03):
imprint on a space, especiallyaround, like if a very traumatic
thing happens.
I think it was actually not toplug a big uh franchise, but
there was an episode of ghosthunters that sort of opened my
eyes to this when I was a littlekid, watching it around like
some woman's ghost, like avictorian era ghost it was like
princess penelope it wasn't that, but something like that and
(15:29):
she would always, they wouldalways catch her, like all the
people would report hearing hersay the same thing.
And so it's this idea of likeokay, well, maybe it's.
It is even like a haunting ofsomebody that's like aware that
they're a haunting, or it's justlike a piece of energy that was
left and caught right in thisbed or this room or whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, I love thinking about things that way too well,
there's that, and then, if youwant to spin off of that, you
can also go into thought formsand egregores and how we create
hauntings that way, because um,also not to like want to throw
out more paranormal shows, butkindred spirits, it does a
wonderful job of you know,putting this to the like.
(16:02):
I think it's called like thephilip theory or something like
that to the test, where theycreate a ghost and you know
they're like it's this name.
He likes playing with the k2meter, like you know.
He likes playing with the ball,like type of thing.
Like when they went back toinvestigate after they were just
talking about it and talkingabout it, they started getting
hits based on like what theywere saying.
(16:23):
Right, who truly knows what theparanormal is?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
if I'm being honest, yeah, we all have this idea of
what it could be, but we are sofar from it and I don't think we
ever will truly know what is onthe other side until our tragic
, fateful day yeah, everyone wholistens to this podcast is
going to roll their eyes when Isay this, but it's like, because
I say it all the but it's likefrom the film the Mothman
(16:48):
prophecies which might actuallybe a John Kill quote, I don't
know, but they say in the filmlike it's like humans
understanding the paranormal islike trying to explain physics
to a cockroach.
It's like we just don't havethe capacity to understand what
it is, the same way, like acockroach or a bug doesn't have
the capacity to understandphysics.
Like it's just like beyond andalso similar to the mothman.
(17:09):
It's like the like what you'rejust talking about, like thought
forms and like tulpas.
Like you have this wholecommunity who starts to believe
in this thing.
Is that what's feeding into itand making it happen?
Like it's so fascinating that'shonest.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
It's probably like what the.
The fact that it's so unknownis probably like, my favorite
thing about the paranormal.
Like I love history, I love thedark lore and the stories that
are attached.
Some of them are very, veryheartbreaking and tragic, but
they also deserve to be told.
But then there is this side tothe paranormal where you can let
your mind wander and it justkeeps going and going and going
(17:42):
and it's like an exercise inaccepting the fact that we don't
know, and that's like part ofthe fun.
like not, you cannot figure itout, so let's just like go with
it and see what happens yeah,and I know like there's I think
it was maybe like the end oflike last year there was this
huge debate on twitter where Iwas like we want answers, you
know, we want the truth, andit's like, well, what?
What if, like, you can't getthe truth, no one knows what
(18:05):
we're doing.
Like I don't know what I'mdoing.
I've been doing this for like10 years probably.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I have no idea what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Okay, that's actually a perfect segue, because I'm
curious how you got intoparanormal investigation so, um,
the paranormal and know, likethe weird side of life was
always a constant to me.
I grew up around cemeteries.
I came from a very my, mygrandma, was very Catholic, so
you know, I grew up going toCatholic school, so that kind of
(18:35):
like added into like mycuriosity.
But it wasn't until like I was,I want to say, like seven years
old, when I randomly woke up inthe middle of the night and
looked out my window and on thebottom right corner of it I saw
a face and I knew it wasimpossible that someone could be
outside looking at my window,because I was second story,
(18:55):
there was no way to get to it,like there was no balcony or
anything like that.
So I just remember being sofreaked out by it I hid behind
like my dresser or something,and what was like five minutes
felt like forever, and then,like I jumped into bed, never
told a single soul about it, andthen about like a year, maybe a
(19:17):
year or two later, theparanormal show started coming
out.
So I got really, reallyinvolved in Ghost, ghost Hunters
.
I loved it to no end and I justremember being like I want to
do this.
I want to do this in any way,shape or form.
I didn't have my firstinvestigation until I want to
say, like maybe I was like asophomore in high school and it
(19:38):
was actually at the BuffaloCentral Terminal with Steve
Tango from Ghost Hunters andthen John Zaffis.
I was like on cloud nine.
I remember John Zaffis was likeoh my God, that's such a great
question when I asked, like thespirit box, like what the
ghost's birthday was, and I waslike this is it.
This is my legacy.
But then, like after that itwas kind of just trying to like
(20:02):
drag friends to do this, like alot of my childhood friends like
did not want any part of theparanormal.
I was always that bad influenceat the sleepovers doing like
Bloody.
Mary and stuff.
I was like come on guys, likewhat's the worst that can happen
.
But but like then I found a fewlike other friends and you know
(20:29):
we did it when we could.
But then, like after highschool, I kind of focused on you
know like just following abunch of shows and you know like
just being like a young 20 yearold, not even caring about this
side.
And it wasn't until thepandemic hit that I kind of was
forced to like go inward and youknow I escaped to all of the
haunted locations we had aroundhere just to like go take a
drive and, yeah, go into thecemeteries and stuff.
So that would lead to like theghoul guide and stuff.
So it's I kind of like got awayfrom it and then like it came
(20:54):
back to me in like a beautifulway.
I love that that's.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
That's like such a great story and I totally
understand, like you know, meand Chris from Buried Secrets,
like we spent so much timewalking in cemeteries once
vaccines and things areavailable for COVID, because
it's like there's nowhere elseto go, you know, especially in
New York, like we were likethat's a green space we can go
to and nobody is there, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I just remember looking outside, like outside my
window, and just be like I justwant to go, I just want to do
something.
I would just get in the car anddrive and you know like I would
just end up taking back roadsand it would like lead me to
rolling hills and I'd be like,oh, I love this place.
It's like, it's like one oflike my first places I
investigated and then, like Ifound myself at Gudelberg and
(21:36):
all these other cemeteriesaround me and like that summer,
I had this like nagging ideawhere it's like all right, you
like writing, you like going,traveling, and you know all the
ghost stories around Like whydon't you go find people that
want to do this?
And then Instagram happened andthe rest is history.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
It's so great.
It's so great.
I'm such a big fan.
I'm so glad that you, that youfound it and you're also, I
should say you're such a goodwriter.
You've lent us a few storiesover the years and your work is,
in some of the articles you'vewritten in the Feminine Macabre,
so well written and it makes itvery easy, like Alan.
Every time we read your stories, alan is like I get this, I can
(22:14):
understand this, and it's likeso good, it's so great.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I think that's just like the creative eye I have in
me.
Like I never really spoke aboutit before, but like now that my
my work is out there with likeall my reels, and like the
photography with instagram andlike the writing stuff, I'm just
like I never realized how likedetailed and like detail
oriented and like how I feellike I write more for emotion
(22:38):
and like to just like haveemotion.
Kind of like I don't know, whenI write, I want you to picture
being there, like I want you inmy shoes, kind of feeling what I
was feeling in that moment.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Well, well, you do a great job.
It definitely works.
It definitely works.
Yeah, okay, this is alsoprobably an annoying question,
but bear with me For peoplelistening who who maybe have not
watched Ghost Hunters or GhostAdventures and are less familiar
, what are some of like thetools and the things that you
use on paranormal investigationsand like what would you suggest
(23:09):
is like a great, like 101?
You know, like if I wanted togo for the first time to like
investigate, show up at one ofthe things you're doing and not
look like a total loser?
Like what are the things that,like basic, a basic paranormal
investigator should have andknow how to work?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
well, honestly, I will say you don't really need
equipment.
Your biggest tool is your body.
I am the type of person wholikes to just kind of sit and
listen.
Sometimes, when you sit andlisten and you don't even bother
investigating and you kind ofjust like put in the back of
your mind, you're just therehanging out with friends.
That's when things pop off Inmy head.
(23:44):
It's kind of like you're lettingthe building warm up to you
being in it too, instead of justgoing in there and being like
rapid firing questions, tryingto explain equipment to an
airspace that might have a ghostin it or not.
So I just feel like that.
So your body is your biggest,most like the best tool you can
(24:04):
have.
And then, secondly, I would sayyour phone.
You have a camera, you have acamera, you have a video camera
on there.
You also have voice memos forvoice, for digital recordings.
You would be surprised theamount of times that I still
whip out my phone and you know,record off of it.
My friend Mark ended up gettinga really, really cool EVP off
(24:25):
of it that he had no idea until.
Like playback.
You kind of have to like thinkoutside the box and like, trust
me, I always say that like I ama ghost hunter who hates
equipment, but I just kind ofdon't like how pricey they are.
And just to me, how are we toknow that like this equipment
actually really works, like interms of like the EMF fields and
(24:48):
all that?
So I kind of like to go verybasic.
Also, cat balls.
So, like I said, thinkingoutside the box, a lot of people
love these motion sensor catballs that you can find on
Amazon.
I think I got like a pack oflike 11 for like $5.
You put them on, you throw themon the floor and sometimes they
go off.
They go off by themselves.
(25:08):
Could be a ghost, could not be,who knows.
And then the only real piece ofequipment I would recommend is
maybe a digital recorder Plainand simple.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Amazing.
Ok, so that makes it feel veryaccessible and doable for people
.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Like you have one on your phone, but like a brighter
flashlight might be.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Especially if you're recording and stuff on your
phone, it's good to have aseparate flashlight.
Yeah, okay, that's a great,that's a great thought.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Wow, okay, that, that makes it feel very possible a
whole bunch of like apps andstuff that you can get on your
phone.
I know some like.
I think some you might have topay.
Some are free.
Take them with a grain of salt.
You don't really know how it all, but I'm also not here to like
rain on anyone's parade.
If you want to use equipmentand you want to use apps, go for
it.
I hope you get something.
(25:53):
If you don't want to use thatstuff or think it's overly
priced, like I kind of do,that's cool too and you can
think outside the box.
This girl, Alex, who wasactually on Living for the Dead
on Hulu fantastic show, sheactually builds her own stuff.
So a lot of people in thecommunity are building their own
equipment.
I know this other girl, Lauren.
She's actually doing workshopsto like show you how to build
(26:15):
your own like REM pod or likeproximity sensor, so like
there's other outlets and stuffthat you can like look at
instead of like the traditional,like ghost equipment.
That's once again like thinkingoutside the box type of thing.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, it actually just reminded me because a few
years ago, chris from the BuriedSecrets podcast introduced me
to, through Hellier, to theEstes method, which I didn't
know.
I was talking to Alan about itand I was like we got to do this
For our 100th episode.
We were going to this hauntedhotel, we got to do something to
investigate it.
What are we going to do?
And so I was trying to explainto him, like what a spirit box
(26:54):
is and he's and he works insound, and he was like we have a
radio.
Like we don't need to buy aspirit box, like we could do
this with a radio.
Like you could also download anapp on your phone that scans
radio channels.
Like you don't need to likehave this specific thing that
does it.
There's way, there's freeoptions left and right to do it.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
And I was like, oh great, you solved the problem
for me, and if you even don'tlike, if you don't even want to
do the ss method, you can even Ithink there's a youtube video
out that shows you and eventells you what to buy, where you
can make your own spirit portaland it can cut out the scanning
.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
The annoying scanning sounds, yeah, and it can just
be like a geophone where thevoices pop up here and there, so
like that's yeah you just sitthere and listen to it and like
the voices come through yeah,the story is like don't let,
don't let price be like ablocker not having the fancy
things, because if you just goto youtube you can probably find
a tutorial on how to do it yeah, or honestly even look at like
(27:48):
marketplace and stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Don't you dare go to eBay and like try to like look
up a DR there's.
There's this digital recorder.
It's called the DR-60.
It's from the 1990s and it'sdiscontinued.
People think it's a piece ofcrap.
It's very controversial theywant.
I think the lowest asking priceI saw was like 1500 do not, do
(28:10):
not, oh my god, wow, there'sother reporters out there and,
like all my friends, have them.
Trust me, I'm in like the.
I wish I had one club, justlike everyone else.
But yeah it's, it's not reallyworth it.
I have this feeling that I'mgonna like manifest it and like
find it in a goodwill for likethree dollars, like yeah, I'm
(28:31):
that delusional no, I thinkthat's.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
That's great.
That's like a firm boundary too, of like you know.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
This is the way I'll find it, yeah like I said, you
have it on your phone.
You would be surprised theamount of things you can catch
on your phone.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I'm curious, do you believe, like so growing up,
right when our parents both itsounds like we're like stop
doing Ouija boards.
You know it's like.
Do you like?
Do you have a thought that,like my mom was like you know,
you're letting demons in thehouse as would you investigate
your house?
Or do you feel like that's likeplaying with fire in a place
you want to keep safe?
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I see, the thing is is that I think I think it's
already haunted because I liveby this, like I live by
cemeteries and stuff.
I don't know if it's anythingthat from me or like from the
cemeteries or stuff.
So I, I think I don't, I don'tknow, I don't, I don't think I'd
ever really investigate myhouse.
I don't think it's more of likethe fact that you know, like I
(29:27):
want it to be like my safe space, because I really don't, I
really don't mind, I, I don'tthink it's more of like the fact
that you know like I want it tobe like my safe space, cause I
really don't, I really don'tmind, I just don't, I just don't
think I want to like it's justone of those things where it's
like, yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
This is like my big question that I'm like, so
excited to talk to you about.
You go to many places.
We have established that Firstquestion of many about these
places that you explore what isyour favorite, what is like of
the places you've been to?
This is my ultimate place toinvestigate and it just feels
the best to me.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
The one that's coming instantly to my mind is Waverly
Hills, and I think that'smainly because that's been my
number one spot ever since I waslike eight years old, having
the chance to investigate itprobably like, I think, like six
or seven times now within likethe last couple years.
It has kind of felt like home.
It has a very, very peacefulfeeling to it and a lot of
people don't really think thatit would, mainly because of the
(30:16):
history that it has, but I don'tknow.
Just I I don't know if it'sbecause of, like, all the
memories we made thereintertwined with, like, the
energy that's there too, butit's just I don't know.
I haven't had a bad time atWaverly, like even when, like
the activity was very low andlike nothing was really going on
.
I was just happy to be therelike the first, the first time
(30:36):
we ever investigated it.
I remember, like pulling up inmy car and just being like, if
the ghosts don't say hi tonight,I'm good, I'm okay that.
I drove eight hours to just behere because I just, I just want
to be in the space.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
I think I think that's the top one.
Waverly is like my bucket list.
I've never been.
We actually have an episodefrom the pandemic on or maybe a
little after the pandemic, buton the history of Waverly.
And then we had a friend wholives closer geographically.
He actually went and he's askeptic and he was like an
experience.
I need to talk to you about it.
(31:09):
So he came on the podcast andlike told us, but like his
partner was really into it, soshe sort of like dragged him
there and then he ended up, ofcourse, having like an
experience yeah, like the firsttime we were ever there, my
friend, steve, who I've becomereally, really close friends
with he just did a call out onInstagram was like, hey, I
booked this date.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
There's like nine other spots open if you want it
and I think, like within likehim posting that story on
Instagram within 30 seconds, Iwas like what's your Venmo?
I wanted, and that first nightwe we ended up having one of the
most like the one of theexperiences that I I feel like
I've been talking about itforever and I always mention it,
(31:51):
but it was when the doorslammed on us and the body shoot
when we were completely alone.
So it was me and three othergirls and we ran away from the
other group.
They all had no idea where wewent and I think they were.
Uh, they were like up twofloors on the other side of the
hospital.
I thought they had their walkieon.
They didn't.
(32:11):
We were down in the body chuteand if you don't, if you don't
know what it is, it's this longtunnel that was first used for
construction, but then, as thedeath rates for TB got really
bad, they started pushing thebodies out of there, so the
patients didn't actually knowhow many people were dying.
So we got down there and youknow, we were just taking
(32:34):
pictures and kind of just beingfunny and you know, just hanging
out, and I was up right like onthe first stair and I couldn't
shake the feeling that Icouldn't stop looking over my
shoulder towards the only exitand entrance.
I was like something's going topop out there, like I don't
know what it is, and we're goingto have to run down and we're
going to be stuck and we're alljust kind of hanging out.
Someone said that they want todo a digital recorder session.
So I put mine down.
Someone put like someone waslike I think someone heard the
(32:56):
echo and they're like oh yeah,nevermind.
So I was like I don't care, I'mgoing to leave mine down there.
And then after that one of thegirls said that they heard a
whisper come from down the farend of the tunnel.
So I finally broke my attentionaway from the door and as my
recorder flipped over to aminute, it was just pure silence
(33:18):
and all you just hear is boomand all of us just start
screaming bloody murder.
One of them was like what wasthat?
I think I was like I don't know, and like me and this other one
just took off running and welike went to the sound and after
we figured it out that it wasthe emergency exit door and the
motion light was on outside,there was like no one around, oh
(33:39):
my god.
Um, we tried radioing the people, like the other group from like
hey, like where are you guys?
Like nothing came through, andso I gave it a minute.
We all like kind of collectedourselves and we started walking
and at one point I was justtrying to be funny because like
we were still radioing them andwe weren't hearing anything and
I was like you can't ignore me,like just radio me.
(34:01):
And I don't know if the ghostheard that as like a challenge,
because after that door slam andafter that moment it kicked off
like this last hour of justpure chaos with the civilians oh
my god we were hearing gigglingand chairs moving, like it
sounded like metal on metal andat one point I thought it was
(34:23):
like the body tray coming outand I was like we have to go.
We have to go down there, um,but it wasn't, but it sounded
like the chair outside of thedoor.
At the very end of the night,we did what was called the
Waverly challenge, where you'resupposed to walk floor by floor
by yourself, um, without aflashlight nope.
I, I wanted no part of it.
(34:43):
Like part of me was like, yeah,let's totally do it.
I'm just like I'm dying.
Um, so three, three people.
They walked out of like thegreen room we were in and they
started the challenge, and meand these two other girls we
were going to do it, but like wewere going to do it as like
just the three of us togetherand we didn't know where the
other group went.
So we got our stuff and we wereon the first floor and I
(35:06):
radioed them like hey, we'reabout to start.
Little did I know that.
And we were on the first floorand I radioed them like hey,
we're about to start.
Little did I know that theywere up on the fifth floor
waiting for us and they heard me, like they heard my voice, and
saw flashlights in the stairway,thought we were coming up.
We never came up and then they,like they heard the radio come
in, saying was like hey, it's me, we're going to start on the
(35:27):
first.
That's so freaky.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, wow, wow that's wild.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Most recently we were there last march.
We we were getting ready tolike wrap up the second night of
events that we had there and wewere saying goodbye to like our
last guest, and this was likeprobably like 4, 4, 30 in the
morning.
So we were all exhausted and wehad all our stuff in our hands
and we go to start walking downthe hallway and you just hear
this blood curdling scream.
(35:54):
It was a female.
I like just my face dropped andI go, oh no, like that's our
tour guide, because we had likeshe wasn't old, but she was like
older.
I thought she got hurt.
I was like you guys have to gocheck on her.
Like we can't leave.
So we were all about to go walkdown the hallway into the actual
like patient rooms where weheard the scream and right as we
(36:18):
get to the doors, the tourguide comes out with paper
towels in her hands and she'slike what's going on?
You guys look like you saw aghost and we're like are you
good?
We did yeah, you saw a ghost.
And we're like are you good?
We did yeah, and we're justlike are you good?
She's like yeah, I'm fine.
What's going on?
We're like you didn't.
You didn't hear that scream.
She's like no, but you guys cango check it out if you want.
(36:38):
Oh my god, wow, that's wild.
Yeah, um, so she ended up takingthe group that we were like
trying to like get out, like thetail end of our friends.
She ended up taking them downto the hill so they could get
out of the gate, and we tookthat time to walk the entire um
hospital to make sure we didn'tleave anyone behind.
And no one was there.
So I don't know where thatscream came from.
No, like from what I know, noone was outside.
(37:01):
So waverly waverly knows how tolike leave you with a story or
two yeah, oh my gosh, okay,that's got to be like.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
My 2024 goal is to go .
I really want to go.
It's enough is enough.
Now is the time you have to.
I have to.
I have to.
Okay now next question onlocations that's your favorite
that you've been to, what's likeyour bucket list location that
you haven't been to yet?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
oh, so there's actually two.
So in the top, in the top three, there's only one place I
haven't been able to cross offyet, and that's Pennhurst State
School in.
Pennsylvania.
That one has been on my listfor a number of years and I kind
of don't even want to go thereto investigate, I kind of just
want to go there to be there.
(37:45):
It's one of those places whereI know it's haunted.
It doesn't need to prove itselfto me, it is just.
It's just been a place that'sso embedded into my life because
, like I said before, I was ateacher or a teacher aid for
kids with special needs.
I have people with specialneeds in my family.
So like that whole history andeven just I don't want this to
(38:09):
come up, like me I don't reallymean or anything but like the
history of what we did to peoplein asylums and institutions
fascinates me because I trulydon't understand how one person
can do that to another person.
And I don't think I will ever beable to understand that.
So just being there and beingin that space and kind of like
(38:30):
paying my respects to thosepeople is something that I want
to do, like I would love toinvestigate it Don't get me
wrong, and I probably will, butmy main goal of going there is
to pay my respects and just tobe in the space and ask someone
who was in the field.
I feel like I can connect more.
So there's that, but I wouldsay the number fourth spot is
(38:53):
the Winchester Mystery House.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Oh, I've been there.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Ah, that one has been on my list and my friends have
gone a couple times this yearand I just, I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Okay, okay, very cool .
I feel like I'm in thecommunity now because I've been
there.
It's very cool.
I would love to talk to youabout it after you go, because I
actually have fairly strongopinions on it, but I wouldn't
want to say anything to likespoil any of it.
So once you go we'll chat again.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Hopefully this summer , if everything lines up,
hopefully a trip out there thissummer will work, amazing.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Okay, if it does, I'll FaceTime you and just sob
Please, please, please.
I would love to chat about it.
That would be amazing.
Okay, those are great.
And then, do you have any likelocations outside of the US?
Are you mostly kind of likeinterested in exploring the US?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Oh no, I would actually love to go overseas.
Actually, in 2020, I think itwas 21, I was supposed to go to
Romania.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
That's my dream.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Yeah, I want to say 2019,.
I did a trip over overseas andI was in London for the ball
drop, so I spent New Year's Evethere and I was like holy cow, I
really want to do this again.
So I ended up booking a trip acouple months later to go back
to Ireland and like go down likethe the south of it, because
that's where I was before I wentto London and then COVID hit so
(40:21):
I couldn't go and then, I usedthat money to go to Rome or to
book a trip to Romania and theysuckered me in with Dracula's
castle and I was just likehonest, like really, really,
we're going to do this, say nomore.
So I paid and then everythingwent down and I, I couldn't go
but that that is one of, like,the top ones for the um outside
(40:42):
the US, mainly because Iremember being like I't know
probably 10 watching ScariestPlaces on Earth, and the family
that they sent to Romania wasactually from Buffalo.
So I just have this like vividmemory of everyone watching at
my house and like we were downin the basement and I'm just
like that's going to be me.
I'm going to go there, we'regoing to do it.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
That's great, those are such, those are perfect.
Yes, I have the same, I'malways sending out.
Great, those are such, thoseare perfect.
Yes, I have the same, I'malways sending out.
I'm like, look, we could getthis all inclusive, because I
also not going to drive aroundRomania, so I need to be on a
tour because, you know, I don'thave the skill set to even drive
around the US.
I'm not going to be like, sure,let me drive in a foreign
country.
So I'm always like looking forlike group tours through like
Dracula's Castle.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
I think I did like it was.
It was like some like ultimatebreak one.
I kept hearing about it on theradio when I was working.
This one like this one, odd job, no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
And then I looked it up and I was like all right,
hold on now.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I mean I would hope that you know like the universe
lines up where I can do that, orjust go back to Ireland again.
Ireland was really fun.
Spike Island there, and LepMansion, lep Castle, one of them
.
Just the history and thefolklore there is just
phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah, it's so cool and that's what draws me to it
as well.
Even if you don't have aparanormal experience or
something doesn't have aparanormal history like it's so
fascinating it's actual historyand dark and so many things that
it's like endlessly fascinating.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
I think I heard it like right after I listened to
like a Bobby Mackey story and Iwas like, honestly, this goes
like this is so true when itgoes to the story of Pearl,
because the story of like whatactually happened to her was so
much stranger than what thelegend is.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Right, yeah, have you ever had an experience, you
know, whether during aninvestigation or otherwise, that
stands out as bizarre, likeobviously everything in the
paranormal is like unexplainedand question mark, question mark
, but something that was justlike bizarrely different from
other experiences that you'vehad?
Speaker 2 (42:48):
this is.
This is a good one, because nowI'm trying to like think back
into like all the experienceI've had and I'm like, is that
one, that one, bizarre enough?
The the two that are coming tomy mind right now, I will say
the one was from Waverly and ithappened last year, mainly
because I never I've alwaysheard about like people seeing,
like seeing people like actuallystanding there.
(43:08):
I I'm a firm believer, like Iwant the experience of seeing a
person in the flesh standingthere and then just vanishing,
like I want that full bodyapparition, like that.
And Waverly kind of gave melike a half body apparition.
So what was really bizarre tome in that moment was me and my
friend Dylan.
We were doing the events thisyear, so we had a free roam type
(43:32):
of event and you know we werejust doing rounds making sure
everyone was doing okay.
So we were walking aroundwithout a flashlight and we were
walking up and down the hallwayand I was look, I was on the
terminal side, so I wasn't onthe sun porch side.
I always, I always have thisfear that I'm gonna look into a
room and I'm gonna see someonestanding there and part of me
(43:52):
wants that experiment experience.
But part of me doesn't, becausewhat am I gonna do if someone
is actually standing there?
I'm probably just gonna screamand freak out.
I remember walking down thehallway we were probably like
almost by like the first bendand I looked over and it looked
like there was someone standingthere from the waist down with
(44:12):
the white gown and like the legs, and within a split second of
me, just like blinking my eyesand being like wait, what the
hell was that?
It was gone.
And I looked at Dylan and I waslike, did you like, did you see
someone standing there?
He's like no, and I was like,oh crap, like it's one of those
moments where it's so bizarre,where it's like no one's gonna
freaking believe this.
I just like I remember thepattern on the hospital gown.
(44:35):
I remember what it looked like.
Now that I'm saying the onethat kind of comes to my mind
right now, or the second onethat's really really bizarre.
It's one that I like, reallydon't.
I've just started talking aboutbecause, like I don't, I don't
know what happened.
We were doing the Estes method.
We were doing it in at theMid-Orange Correctional Facility
in Warwick, new York, so that'sabout like 60 miles away from
(44:57):
New York City.
It was a boys reform school andthen it turned into a medium
security prison and then it gotshut down and now it is kind of
like a soccer school or they'retrying to like make it into
dorms again type of thing.
It's one of my like top 10favorite places and we were in
one of the dorms.
(45:17):
It was B1.
It was probably the first timewe were in there, so this was
last year.
We had two people going under atthe same time.
I was under um with thelistening to the spirit box and
having the blindfold on.
I was under in the hallway andI think it was cassie, this girl
.
Cassie, she was in like what itnow?
It's like a big room, but itheld beds along the wall, like
(45:41):
it was just kind of like abigger room for the inmates and
she was getting some stuff andsince it's in the Catskills
Mountains, you really don't haveradio interference, so it's
perfect.
So I was getting nothing butpure static and we we probably
did this at like three in themorning, so I was starting to
fall asleep and in that I wasjust sitting there.
I was like it's fine, you knowwhat?
(46:02):
I'm just slowly going to fallasleep.
So I started dozing off and Iwas like catching myself and the
one instance I must have beenlike in like a trance or
something.
I don't even want to say thatbecause I don't even know what
it was.
(46:25):
So I was sitting up like upagainst the wall and at one
moment it was kind of like aflash of an image.
But what I was seeing was thestaircase, directly by the
window or like by the door wherewe came in, and I saw someone
standing there.
Her hand was on the railing,like I saw her gripping the
railing, so I saw from basicallyher chest down.
She was in like a white shirt.
It looks like a black skirt,like tucked in, kind of like an
(46:46):
old fancy teacher.
Yeah, I remember sitting thereand I snapped out of it and I
couldn't even like put intowords, I couldn't hear what was
happening around me because Iwas, I had the noise canceling
headphones on and at one point Iwas like hey guys, I don't know
what this is, but I had avision, but something is telling
me to pay attention to thestaircase, and little did I know
(47:25):
that a minute before I saidthat the people who were in the
hallway were looking at the doorin the same area that I saw in,
like my vision, or whatever youwant to call it.
They were seeing someonestanding there and they were
blocking out the little windowand then it would just sink into
the floor.
Whoa, I don't know who I saw.
I think it was the dorm mother,because back in the day in the
reform school days, thesetroubled youth, they would live
in these dorms and each dorm hadlike a dorm mother and a dorm
father that would look over them.
So I think she was pokingaround that night and didn't
really know what we were doing.
(47:45):
And I kind of don't blame herfor poking around, because this
was like this was our first timein like the set of dorms and I
don't think anyone like reallyreally goes into them.
So yeah, that's probably one ofthe most bizarre things I've
had happen.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
That's so crazy.
I mean the interesting thingtoo.
What I was first hearing whenyou were talking about it is
like those two stories you justshared were both bottom half
almost, or like not head, and Iwas like huh, I've never thought
about seeing people usuallylike a face like not just like
someone's legs, like that's sointeresting.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Yeah, and now that I'm thinking about it too, the
first time when I went towaverly we were, we all went
into I think it was like thefourth floor hallway, because
that's where they say they seelike shadows and stuff, but we
were all scattered, so like Ithink, I like told everyone to
kind of like go in like a zigzagso we can like space out not
seem like so intimidating.
I was looking behind this this,my friend Mark, and what looked
?
It looked like someone with awalker that's the only way I can
describe it.
Like someone, like having likea walker, and they were like
(48:46):
walking with it.
I could and once again I couldsee the bottom, I could see
their legs.
Maybe, it's just something withme, just, I just can only see
the bottom half.
That's fine, I don't need tosee anymore.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
I love it, though, and it's so interesting too.
I think like the vision piece,because it also sounds like you
have not to define yourexperience, but you have like
this almost like spiritual,meditative way of approaching
all of this too, and you'reaware of, like energy, and so I
like the idea of the vision andhow that could be, like a way
that people are communicatingwith you right or whatever it is
(49:23):
is is communicating with youbecause you're open-minded to it
.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Yeah, and like in that moment, I was like I think
I made that up, like, and I Iknow for a fact, like I saw what
I saw, like it is so embeddedin my mind, and like there's
still a moment where, like Icompletely made that up but then
, like I re-watched Hellier,where they started doing the
thing and the whole tin canthing, I was like, yeah, all
right, maybe I didn't make thisup then.
Like, all right, like this is athing.
So I mean I don't know, but Iwas talking with someone and
(49:46):
they were like, yeah, I think Ithink you've kind of found
yourself like in a trance typeof thing where I mean it makes
sense, because I was listeningto nothing but pure, pure white
noise and, right, I mean I wasalready exhausted at that point.
So I think, like the everythinglined up perfectly for me to
see that.
And now in this year I'm likestuck trying to like chase that,
(50:08):
because I just want that wholething again.
I just maybe just a little bitlonger this time.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Yeah yeah, no, totally I love it.
It feels like addicting in away, like you know, once you
like sort of accept that okay,there's stuff happening, like
now I'm I'm eager to like seewhat where else it could go.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah, like once, once I have my little freak out
about it and get over with itlike there's something there
that's cool yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yeah, Okay, my, my last question for you actually I
have two more, but my lastquestion on the paranormal, I
imagine, because I feel like Isometimes post videos about
hauntings and history and I geta lot of pushback.
Do you get a lot of pushbackfrom people who are skeptics and
, if so, how do you approachthat?
Or do you sort of say likethat's your world, this is my
world and that's fine?
Speaker 2 (50:53):
So I feel like it's more of like the second of what
you said.
There are moments where I thepushback I seem to get comes
from like whenever I postevidence, and that is so far and
few between really Like nowthat I think about it, I really
don't post that much evidence.
I post EVPs.
I really don't post like ifanything.
(51:14):
I kind of like go, try to golive and investigate when we're
together or like when, when wehave the moment, but whatever
pushback I get is kind ofsomeone just being like I don't
think it said that Like ghostsaren't real.
I'm just like all right, Likecome on.
In this day and age if you, ifyou want to believe that ghosts
aren't real, so be it.
I'm not going to be here, I'mnot going to be the one to
(51:36):
change your mind.
Listen, the world is coming toan end soon.
Let's just enjoy what we have.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Right, that's what I say.
Why don't we enjoy it a little,right?
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Let people just like what they like.
I like ghosts.
I like thinking I'm talking tothe air, thinking that it's
talking back to me.
I like having the weird thingshappen, like it's just, it is
what it is, and if that's notyour cup of tea, then so be it.
Yeah, I love that.
Just let me tell my littleghost stories, in peace.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
I love that you have a great.
You have a thick skin.
I get very fired up but I Ilike crave to, not.
You know, I would love to belike you know, that's fine.
We believe different things andit's okay.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
There are times where things get to me like we're
human.
It happens.
You also have to realize thatin this day, and like social
media, there are a lot of peoplejust hiding behind the
keyboards just wanting to likerain on everyone's parade, and
it's nothing is worth it in thisday and age.
Yeah, that's true, you're amute button away.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Yeah, that's very true, that's very true.
Ok, my last question for you,which again we ask everybody on
the podcast say what are yourtop three favorite horror movies
, or do you even like horror?
Speaker 2 (52:45):
Oh my god, yes, so I do, but I kind of I'm not a
movie person and this is likewhat do you mean by that?
I love watching trailers andbeing like oh.
I love seeing that.
Like I can't wait to see itwhen it comes out.
Like will I watch it when itcomes out?
Probably not, um, but like whenI do actually watch movies.
Like around halloween amc hashorror fest on it's background
(53:09):
noise all month long.
If I had to pick three top ones, I would say the blur witch
project, grave encounters andEncounters and Texas Chainsaw
Massacre.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
Okay, all right, oh weird Three, but those are my
three and I'm sticking to it.
No, not strange at all.
I mean Blair Witch Project,excellent Agree, I've never seen
Grave Encounters.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
Oh, that is see.
Now there's a second one too.
It is a.
It's not even a mockumentary,it is a spinoff of Ghost
Adventures.
So if you ever heard me saygrave adventures, I'm
referencing this movie, becauseI constantly get the two
confused.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
It's just grave adventures to me because they're
mocking off Ghost Adventures.
I know exactly what they'retalking about Got it.
But if you're into theparanormal world, think of it
like it's a ghost hunting orlike, yeah, it's a ghost
adventures episode that goeswrong.
There's a little like cheesyparts to it, but I really like
it.
It gave me a few good jumpscares, like when I watched it.
I watched it on my laptop forthe first time and I was texting
(54:14):
someone and I I jumped scaredand like my phone sat me in my
face it was.
I was like that's incredible,like you got me there.
But but yeah, I I wouldrecommend it.
I watched the second one.
I should probably re-watch itagain, but I I think as a
paranormal investigator, it wasjust fun to see someone finally
like take on like this idea ofgoing on a ghost hunt and having
(54:38):
things go wrong.
So I don't know I don't want tospoil it too much, but okay I'm
gonna watch it.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
I'm gonna watch it.
I'm so excited I have.
It's bizarre that I haven'teven heard of it, because I feel
like I'm always watching horrormovies.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
But I'm going to it's kind of yeah, it's kind of like
a b film, like it's not reallylike an indie, where, like no
one's heard of it but, but it'salso not that like mainstream.
I think it was on Netflix.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Okay, I'll report back.
I can't wait to watch it.
That's so exciting, courtney.
It has been so fun.
I feel like this is just partone, because I feel like this
was like the basics and now Iwant to get into like the
advanced level with you, becauseyou've taught me a lot.
I feel like I'm ready to gointo Waverly Hills now with just
(55:22):
like my phone and my flashlightand my open-mindedness and I'm
going to accept whatever happens.
I sincerely hope that our pathscross in person at some point
this year, because that would besuch a treat.
But thank you so much for beingon the podcast and talking
through all of this.
For anybody who doesn't followCourtney if it's possible
there's anybody please followher.
It's the Ghoul Guide.
On TikTok, on Instagram, onTwitter, everywhere on social
(55:44):
media, right YouTube, it's theGhoul Guide.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
Ghoul Guide, same handle, same ghoul, same
shenanigans.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
And Courtney also has incredible merch, which we have
some incredible stickers andevery so often she'll do like a
Polaroid sale of different kindof haunted Polaroids of these
really cool locations which Ialso use as bookmarks when I'm
reading, and I love them.
Yeah, so please, please, followher on Instagram and everywhere
else and kind of keep your eyesopen for all this stuff,
(56:11):
because it's 10 out of 10.
Well, thank you, of course, ofcourse.
Thank you, guys, so much forlistening and we'll talk to you
soon.
Bye.
Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode
of the Lunatics Radio Hourpodcast.
I am beyond thrilled to besitting here finally after many
years of being internet friendswith Courtney Eastman of the
Ghoul Guide.
Welcome to the podcast,courtney.
Oh my goodness, thank you somuch for having me.
It is such a pleasure.
(00:40):
Your Instagram account,honestly, is like I feel like my
portal into the world of theparanormal, which I'm only an
imposter and observer in, andyour content is so engaging and
you go to like all the placesthat I want to go to and I'm so
thrilled to be talking to youfinally.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I know what it's been like, what like almost three
years now, and this is like aface to face.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
It's wild.
It's wild, but I also loveInstagram for bringing new
friends.
So many of the great people weknow are from Instagram, which
is amazing.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Honestly, that's like how I met half of my friend
group that I have today wasreally just Instagram, like us
DMing each other and then likejumping on, like investigations
or like going to events togetherand I'll just kind of all
happen, naturally.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, so for anybody who doesn't follow you, I
believe I'm quoting that yousort of describe yourself as a
paranormal travel blogger.
Is that right, I call?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
it like a haunted travel blogger.
Okay, I love going out thereand sharing the haunted history
within some of these places.
I grew up in Western New Yorkso we have a very rich haunted
history.
We just have rich history herein general.
Yeah, there was a lot of talesand stuff that I love and, you
know, just growing up I wantedto share the stories and I also
wanted to share some of thelocations that I've always just
(01:54):
been like fascinated by, likeWaverly Hills or, you know, like
Rolling Hills, all those places.
So it all just kind of likeblended in together and I just
thought haunted travel bloggerwas like the easiest way to like
put it all together.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, it's a perfect.
It's a perfect summary.
So you spend a lot, especiallyin the warmer months.
Majority of your weekends.
It feels like traveling to allof these locations and
investigating them right.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, I think this year I logged like 13,000 miles.
Oh my gosh, between March andthe the end of November, wow.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
And being in Western New York is kind of like a great
, I feel, like spot because it'svery accessible for you to
drive to many different statesand kind of explore that way.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, I'm pretty lucky because, like you said,
I'm in Western New York, so it'sonly about maybe like an hour
to go to Erie, pennsylvania andan hour and a half to go to Ohio
.
So this past week I was inPennsylvania twice.
Just wow for fun that's thedream yeah, I was just like I'm
(02:59):
bored, what am I gonna do timeto go south like and just keep
driving.
I'm very lucky that way, butit's funny because, like
whatever I say, I'm from NewYork, everyone just assumes I'm
from the city and like you're,you're from the city, so like
you kind of get it, but I amprobably about like eight hours
away from you.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I feel that a lot, because I feel like to what your
point earlier a lot of theparanormal haunted.
There's certainly stuff in NewYork don't get me wrong in New
York city, but there's so muchif you have the ability to have
a car and drive out a few hours,which I don't have.
We don't have a car.
We live in the city and like,for example, I'm obsessed with
Lilydale and I want to go toLilydale so badly but it feels
(03:39):
like right, it's like so close,but it feels like I'd have to
like fly to Buffalo and rent acar.
You know, it's like it's sohard to logistically figure out
how to get there.
So I am very jealous of whereyou're positioned and kind of
the access that you have tothings.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I mean that's really funny that you mentioned
Lillydale, because I've lived inwestern New York for all of 30,
31 years now and I've only justrecently went to Lillydale.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Oh, you went.
Can you tell me everything?
How was it so?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
we.
So I actually was jumping on afilming weekend with my friends
and haunted nights.
We did an event on a Fridaynight and then the rest of the
weekend it was just us filmingand we didn't really know where
we were going to, where we weregoing to go.
So on the way to Dunkirkbecause we were going to the
Dunkirk Lighthouse and we weretrying to like start heading
home we stopped at Lilydalebecause the guys rented a room
(04:29):
at the one haunted house thereor the one haunted hotel.
It's a very, very peacefulplace.
We definitely didn't like getto do any of like the
inspiration stump or like any ofthat type of type of stuff, but
we walked around.
It was very, very peaceful.
If you ever get a chance to go,I highly suggest it.
Like it's more active in thewarmer months and like there's
(04:53):
some psychics who live that likeit's a psychic community, if
you don't know what it is.
So, um, there are some psychicswho just accept walk-offs or
you have to book.
So it's kind of just like youcan go for the day and like you
never really know what you'regoing to get.
So like that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah, I'm so fascinated by it.
My family has like a longhistory with spiritualism and so
it's kind of like this likeultimate destination where, like
we have, like me and my mom,like we have to go to Lilydale
and like just you know, likebook with a psych, but it feels
overwhelming to do a whole trip.
But someday, someday we will gofor sure.
I'm manifesting that for you.
(05:27):
Thank you, thank you.
Okay, so this is going to seemlike a silly question to ask you
, but I'm going to do it anyway,because we ask everybody on our
podcast when we have guests ifthey've had a paranormal
experience.
I know that you have, you'vetalked to me about them before,
but if you had sort of oneparanormal experience that you
were going to say to somebodylike Alan say, who's like super
(05:49):
skeptical, as kind of likeyou're like you know, party,
party trick, paranormal story,which one would you, which one
would you say?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
There's like four that come to mind right now, and
I think I told you guys the onefor one of your episodes, so
I'm going to go with the secondone that's jumping in my head
right now and it's maybe themost recent.
Over the summer it was theweekend of the filming weekend,
when we went to Lilydale.
We had an event at WestVirginia State Penitentiary.
It was like our last time therefor the for like the year and
(06:20):
we were all hanging out and itwas towards the end of the night
at one point.
We were all hanging out and itwas towards the end of the night
At one point.
We were all hanging out andthey all looked at me and
they're like hey, we havehandcuffs, let's handcuff you
for a solo for 10 minutes.
And I was so against it, Iwanted no part of it because
they wanted to put me in likeRed Snyder's cell.
Do they literally meanhandcuffing you?
(06:40):
Yep, I bitched and moaned theentire time and I was like I
don't want to do this, but yet Iwas still walking to like go do
it, we get in the cell and Isit on the bed and I pull my
feet up because I'm terrified ofsomething pulling like pulling
my feet underneath.
My friends put the handcuffs onme so I was handcuffed to the
bed.
So everyone left.
I was just me.
(07:00):
They're all like we're justgonna hang out in the courtyard.
We're right there, just yell,yell if you need us.
And little did I know.
My friend dylan was in the cellnext to me getting ready to
scare me because everyone lovesto scare me they.
They learned that they couldscare me at waverly, so like it
was game over.
After that I thought everyoneleft and I have a video of this.
I haven't posted it yet butit's coming soon.
(07:23):
I feel like maybe, like this isthe podcast, I have to post it,
for I I had my phone set uplike on the little sink and I
was like doing like this littlemonologue, like hey, so my
friends left me like handcuffedin resnit herself and there was
this huge pound on the door andI was like you could see me jump
.
And then my friend d Dylan jumpsout and he was like it was me
(07:43):
and I was like you ever like getout of here.
And then, um, as I was yellingat him at one point, I was like
are you gonna let me do this orwhat?
And then you just hear boom andhe goes that wasn't me.
And I go.
So that was Steve.
And he goes.
I'm the only one in here andyou're locked in here.
So, so like that that moment Ihave it all on camera.
(08:05):
I have Dylan standing in thedoor saying it wasn't him and
then you have probably a minuteof me trying to process it all.
It was just like oh so it wasSteve and he goes.
No, everyone's outside.
I'm just like well, what do youmean?
And like the reality of like mebeing handcuffed, sitting in
(08:27):
this thing like in the cell waslike really setting it.
And then he bolted so I waslike literally alone.
Um, thank god, nothing reallyhappened after that.
It was like a quiet EP session,but that bang and because like
I felt the vibration on my back,yeah, like that had to be
someone who's like nope, there'severyone's outside except for
me.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Wow, that's wild, that's so scary.
Are you very jumpy?
Yes, yeah, me too, me too.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I like.
So my day job it kind of woreout my nerves because I was
working in a behavior room forkids with special needs so I was
always kind of like in a fightor flight mode and now after
getting out of the classroom, mynerves are coming down from it.
But then they realize that theycan scare me and I'm so in my
head that like I don't, I don'treally like see it coming, so
(09:17):
I'm always so jumpy so they canjust get me whatever they want.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I am the same I and people always give me flack.
They're like don't you lovehorror?
I'm like, yeah, but I'm stillvery scared all the time.
So yeah, it's, it is my reality.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, I'm like a ghost hunter who's like kind of
afraid of the dark but likewon't admit it.
I'm just like afraid of theunknown.
Like if it's darkness inside myhouse I like it, but if it's
like unfamiliar darkness I'mlike I don't want any part of
that.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
That's fair, Okay.
So when you were just talking,you sort of inspired me to
wonder you go on a lot ofinvestigations.
How often do you feel like youencounter activity?
Is it every time?
Is it less frequent than that?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
So reality of it is is that you are not going to get
paranormal activity everywhereyou go every single night.
There are times where we walkaway with a lot of stories.
There are times where we don'tat all, and that's completely
okay, because to me that's thebeauty of the paranormal,
because it literally is theunknown.
So if you have an experienceone night and you go back and
nothing happens, then that kindof like builds credibility for
(10:20):
like the first thing to happen.
Right, I'd say like it's kindof like an even five, like on a
scale of 10 from like one to 10.
It's kind of neutral because I'malso a firm believer that it's
all in the energy you bring intoit too.
So interesting, like with thedifferent, like groups of people
that come in, can that add tothe activity, can that take away
from it?
(10:40):
So I feel like there's a lot ofdifferent factors, but I would
say like an even five.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Okay, I love that.
That feels like a really honestanswer.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Say that like the paranormal shows that you see
out there, those are allproduced so like of course I
personally like Kindred Spiritsas a paranormal show to watch
because you can kind of see itbreak off in the like you know
that they're there for like aweek and like you can see the
different day-to-dayinvestigations, but like when
it's just like an episode ofghost adventures or ghost
(11:08):
hunters, they're really therefor like two nights and if they
don't get something, like theykind of right I don't want to
say fake it, but like they kindof have to like blow up the
things that like aren't reallythere alan works in film and tv
full-time and he has worked on aghost hunting show before.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
He's not said I actually don't even know which
one it was, but probably causehe doesn't remember, but he
that's why he's so skeptical ofthem, because he's like I've.
I've been on them and I I seehow it's produced, and so he's
like I.
I wouldn't put all of your he'slike.
I'm sure sometimes it's real,but it's.
It's.
Sometimes you have to.
They're on the hook to makegood TV and that's their job,
(11:46):
right, so it's.
You know.
I understand the, the dualityof it.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
And I kind of feel like that's what's happening in
like the YouTube world now,because YouTube is like YouTube
paranormal is kind of a bigthing with, like the Sam and
Colby crowd.
So like you have people who arelike oh my God, this place is
insanely haunted, blah, blah,blah.
But oh my god, this place isinsanely haunted, blah, blah,
blah.
But it's like, yeah, butthey're only here for a set
amount of time and they knowthat they have to make an
episode and there's a few littletips and tricks that you can do
(12:11):
.
The REM pod will go off ifsomeone hits a walkie.
If you get a text message, yourK2s will go off.
So I'm not saying that they'refaking it, but I'm also saying
that there is a lot of goodentertainers out there and they
know what they're doing andthere's a part of me that
respects them for knowing whatthey're doing, but also, at the
(12:32):
same time, it's like stopmisleading everyone.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Right, right, it's a very delicate line to balance.
Yeah, how do you think aboutand define the paranormal?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Like I know that's a loaded question, but I liked
what you were saying earlierabout the energy of the people
who are there influences it,Like how do you think about what
you believe to be?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
the paranormal.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Oh, this is such a fun question, so my two theories
kind of like lead into one.
I guess you can say, like I said, I'm a firm believer about, you
know, the energy and the energyimprints that we leave behind,
because energy just doesn't goaway, and if you think about the
theories in the past, like thestone tape theory, how energy
embeds itself in like limestoneor like quartz and stuff and
(13:15):
then replays itself.
But I also love playing withthis idea that what if we're the
ghosts?
And what if we are making thesehauntings?
Mainly because of time slipsand also our energy too?
So you have you kind of have tothink about it in a residual
(13:35):
type of thing.
Say, you and I were going to aplace like waverly hills.
What if we rounded the cornerand all of a sudden we were
transported back into the 1930sor you know the height of
tuberculosis, and in that momentwe were in this like time slip
(13:56):
where we saw a glimpse of like anurse, and then she saw us too
and was like who are they?
So she goes back to her friendsand tells a story and we end up
becoming the ghost story thatwe hear about so many years ago.
It's this huge rabbit hole thatyou, that like you, can go down
whenever there's like a dullmoment in like an investigation.
(14:17):
This is what we throw out tolike get everyone's mind going.
So there's that in like termsof like being paranormal, but
also in the energy of beingresidual where you know.
We just throw our energy outthere, like when you're really
mad or you know you're reallysad.
It leaves an imprint and thenover time things are just right
(14:37):
in the universe to get that toplay over and over again.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, that's actually very similar to my like
uneducated theories on theparanormal, because I also
believe, like how do you destroythe energy of somebody?
Right?
Like it feels like you know,there's so much more to us than
our bodies, so when our bodydies, it doesn't mean every bit
of us dies.
And I also feel like the sameway, like the way energy can
(15:03):
imprint on a space, especiallyaround, like if a very traumatic
thing happens.
I think it was actually not toplug a big uh franchise, but
there was an episode of ghosthunters that sort of opened my
eyes to this when I was a littlekid, watching it around like
some woman's ghost, like avictorian era ghost it was like
princess penelope it wasn't that, but something like that and
(15:29):
she would always, they wouldalways catch her, like all the
people would report hearing hersay the same thing.
And so it's this idea of likeokay, well, maybe it's.
It is even like a haunting ofsomebody that's like aware that
they're a haunting, or it's justlike a piece of energy that was
left and caught right in thisbed or this room or whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, I love thinking about things that way too well,
there's that, and then, if youwant to spin off of that, you
can also go into thought formsand egregores and how we create
hauntings that way, because um,also not to like want to throw
out more paranormal shows, butkindred spirits, it does a
wonderful job of you know,putting this to the like.
(16:02):
I think it's called like thephilip theory or something like
that to the test, where theycreate a ghost and you know
they're like it's this name.
He likes playing with the k2meter, like you know.
He likes playing with the ball,like type of thing.
Like when they went back toinvestigate after they were just
talking about it and talkingabout it, they started getting
hits based on like what theywere saying.
(16:23):
Right, who truly knows what theparanormal is?
Speaker 1 (16:26):
if I'm being honest, yeah, we all have this idea of
what it could be, but we are sofar from it and I don't think we
ever will truly know what is onthe other side until our tragic
, fateful day yeah, everyone wholistens to this podcast is
going to roll their eyes when Isay this, but it's like, because
I say it all the but it's likefrom the film the Mothman
(16:48):
prophecies which might actuallybe a John Kill quote, I don't
know, but they say in the filmlike it's like humans
understanding the paranormal islike trying to explain physics
to a cockroach.
It's like we just don't havethe capacity to understand what
it is, the same way, like acockroach or a bug doesn't have
the capacity to understandphysics.
Like it's just like beyond andalso similar to the mothman.
(17:09):
It's like the like what you'rejust talking about, like thought
forms and like tulpas.
Like you have this wholecommunity who starts to believe
in this thing.
Is that what's feeding into itand making it happen?
Like it's so fascinating that'shonest.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
It's probably like what the.
The fact that it's so unknownis probably like, my favorite
thing about the paranormal.
Like I love history, I love thedark lore and the stories that
are attached.
Some of them are very, veryheartbreaking and tragic, but
they also deserve to be told.
But then there is this side tothe paranormal where you can let
your mind wander and it justkeeps going and going and going
(17:42):
and it's like an exercise inaccepting the fact that we don't
know, and that's like part ofthe fun.
like not, you cannot figure itout, so let's just like go with
it and see what happens yeah,and I know like there's I think
it was maybe like the end oflike last year there was this
huge debate on twitter where Iwas like we want answers, you
know, we want the truth, andit's like, well, what?
What if, like, you can't getthe truth, no one knows what
(18:05):
we're doing.
Like I don't know what I'mdoing.
I've been doing this for like10 years probably.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I have no idea what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Okay, that's actually a perfect segue, because I'm
curious how you got intoparanormal investigation so, um,
the paranormal and know, likethe weird side of life was
always a constant to me.
I grew up around cemeteries.
I came from a very my, mygrandma, was very Catholic, so
you know, I grew up going toCatholic school, so that kind of
(18:35):
like added into like mycuriosity.
But it wasn't until like I was,I want to say, like seven years
old, when I randomly woke up inthe middle of the night and
looked out my window and on thebottom right corner of it I saw
a face and I knew it wasimpossible that someone could be
outside looking at my window,because I was second story,
(18:55):
there was no way to get to it,like there was no balcony or
anything like that.
So I just remember being sofreaked out by it I hid behind
like my dresser or something,and what was like five minutes
felt like forever, and then,like I jumped into bed, never
told a single soul about it, andthen about like a year, maybe a
(19:17):
year or two later, theparanormal show started coming
out.
So I got really, reallyinvolved in Ghost, ghost Hunters
.
I loved it to no end and I justremember being like I want to
do this.
I want to do this in any way,shape or form.
I didn't have my firstinvestigation until I want to
say, like maybe I was like asophomore in high school and it
(19:38):
was actually at the BuffaloCentral Terminal with Steve
Tango from Ghost Hunters andthen John Zaffis.
I was like on cloud nine.
I remember John Zaffis was likeoh my God, that's such a great
question when I asked, like thespirit box, like what the
ghost's birthday was, and I waslike this is it.
This is my legacy.
But then, like after that itwas kind of just trying to like
(20:02):
drag friends to do this, like alot of my childhood friends like
did not want any part of theparanormal.
I was always that bad influenceat the sleepovers doing like
Bloody.
Mary and stuff.
I was like come on guys, likewhat's the worst that can happen
.
But but like then I found a fewlike other friends and you know
(20:29):
we did it when we could.
But then, like after highschool, I kind of focused on you
know like just following abunch of shows and you know like
just being like a young 20 yearold, not even caring about this
side.
And it wasn't until thepandemic hit that I kind of was
forced to like go inward and youknow I escaped to all of the
haunted locations we had aroundhere just to like go take a
drive and, yeah, go into thecemeteries and stuff.
So that would lead to like theghoul guide and stuff.
So it's I kind of like got awayfrom it and then like it came
(20:54):
back to me in like a beautifulway.
I love that that's.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
That's like such a great story and I totally
understand, like you know, meand Chris from Buried Secrets,
like we spent so much timewalking in cemeteries once
vaccines and things areavailable for COVID, because
it's like there's nowhere elseto go, you know, especially in
New York, like we were likethat's a green space we can go
to and nobody is there, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I just remember looking outside, like outside my
window, and just be like I justwant to go, I just want to do
something.
I would just get in the car anddrive and you know like I would
just end up taking back roadsand it would like lead me to
rolling hills and I'd be like,oh, I love this place.
It's like, it's like one oflike my first places I
investigated and then, like Ifound myself at Gudelberg and
(21:36):
all these other cemeteriesaround me and like that summer,
I had this like nagging ideawhere it's like all right, you
like writing, you like going,traveling, and you know all the
ghost stories around Like whydon't you go find people that
want to do this?
And then Instagram happened andthe rest is history.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
It's so great.
It's so great.
I'm such a big fan.
I'm so glad that you, that youfound it and you're also, I
should say you're such a goodwriter.
You've lent us a few storiesover the years and your work is,
in some of the articles you'vewritten in the Feminine Macabre,
so well written and it makes itvery easy, like Alan.
Every time we read your stories, alan is like I get this, I can
(22:14):
understand this, and it's likeso good, it's so great.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I think that's just like the creative eye I have in
me.
Like I never really spoke aboutit before, but like now that my
my work is out there with likeall my reels, and like the
photography with instagram andlike the writing stuff, I'm just
like I never realized how likedetailed and like detail
oriented and like how I feellike I write more for emotion
(22:38):
and like to just like haveemotion.
Kind of like I don't know, whenI write, I want you to picture
being there, like I want you inmy shoes, kind of feeling what I
was feeling in that moment.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Well, well, you do a great job.
It definitely works.
It definitely works.
Yeah, okay, this is alsoprobably an annoying question,
but bear with me For peoplelistening who who maybe have not
watched Ghost Hunters or GhostAdventures and are less familiar
, what are some of like thetools and the things that you
use on paranormal investigationsand like what would you suggest
(23:09):
is like a great, like 101?
You know, like if I wanted togo for the first time to like
investigate, show up at one ofthe things you're doing and not
look like a total loser?
Like what are the things that,like basic, a basic paranormal
investigator should have andknow how to work?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
well, honestly, I will say you don't really need
equipment.
Your biggest tool is your body.
I am the type of person wholikes to just kind of sit and
listen.
Sometimes, when you sit andlisten and you don't even bother
investigating and you kind ofjust like put in the back of
your mind, you're just therehanging out with friends.
That's when things pop off Inmy head.
(23:44):
It's kind of like you're lettingthe building warm up to you
being in it too, instead of justgoing in there and being like
rapid firing questions, tryingto explain equipment to an
airspace that might have a ghostin it or not.
So I just feel like that.
So your body is your biggest,most like the best tool you can
(24:04):
have.
And then, secondly, I would sayyour phone.
You have a camera, you have acamera, you have a video camera
on there.
You also have voice memos forvoice, for digital recordings.
You would be surprised theamount of times that I still
whip out my phone and you know,record off of it.
My friend Mark ended up gettinga really, really cool EVP off
(24:25):
of it that he had no idea until.
Like playback.
You kind of have to like thinkoutside the box and like, trust
me, I always say that like I ama ghost hunter who hates
equipment, but I just kind ofdon't like how pricey they are.
And just to me, how are we toknow that like this equipment
actually really works, like interms of like the EMF fields and
(24:48):
all that?
So I kind of like to go verybasic.
Also, cat balls.
So, like I said, thinkingoutside the box, a lot of people
love these motion sensor catballs that you can find on
Amazon.
I think I got like a pack oflike 11 for like $5.
You put them on, you throw themon the floor and sometimes they
go off.
They go off by themselves.
(25:08):
Could be a ghost, could not be,who knows.
And then the only real piece ofequipment I would recommend is
maybe a digital recorder Plainand simple.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Amazing.
Ok, so that makes it feel veryaccessible and doable for people
.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Like you have one on your phone, but like a brighter
flashlight might be.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Especially if you're recording and stuff on your
phone, it's good to have aseparate flashlight.
Yeah, okay, that's a great,that's a great thought.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Wow, okay, that, that makes it feel very possible a
whole bunch of like apps andstuff that you can get on your
phone.
I know some like.
I think some you might have topay.
Some are free.
Take them with a grain of salt.
You don't really know how it all, but I'm also not here to like
rain on anyone's parade.
If you want to use equipmentand you want to use apps, go for
it.
I hope you get something.
(25:53):
If you don't want to use thatstuff or think it's overly
priced, like I kind of do,that's cool too and you can
think outside the box.
This girl, Alex, who wasactually on Living for the Dead
on Hulu fantastic show, sheactually builds her own stuff.
So a lot of people in thecommunity are building their own
equipment.
I know this other girl, Lauren.
She's actually doing workshopsto like show you how to build
(26:15):
your own like REM pod or likeproximity sensor, so like
there's other outlets and stuffthat you can like look at
instead of like the traditional,like ghost equipment.
That's once again like thinkingoutside the box type of thing.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, it actually just reminded me because a few
years ago, chris from the BuriedSecrets podcast introduced me
to, through Hellier, to theEstes method, which I didn't
know.
I was talking to Alan about itand I was like we got to do this
For our 100th episode.
We were going to this hauntedhotel, we got to do something to
investigate it.
What are we going to do?
And so I was trying to explainto him, like what a spirit box
(26:54):
is and he's and he works insound, and he was like we have a
radio.
Like we don't need to buy aspirit box, like we could do
this with a radio.
Like you could also download anapp on your phone that scans
radio channels.
Like you don't need to likehave this specific thing that
does it.
There's way, there's freeoptions left and right to do it.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
And I was like, oh great, you solved the problem
for me, and if you even don'tlike, if you don't even want to
do the ss method, you can even Ithink there's a youtube video
out that shows you and eventells you what to buy, where you
can make your own spirit portaland it can cut out the scanning
.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
The annoying scanning sounds, yeah, and it can just
be like a geophone where thevoices pop up here and there, so
like that's yeah you just sitthere and listen to it and like
the voices come through yeah,the story is like don't let,
don't let price be like ablocker not having the fancy
things, because if you just goto youtube you can probably find
a tutorial on how to do it yeah, or honestly even look at like
(27:48):
marketplace and stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Don't you dare go to eBay and like try to like look
up a DR there's.
There's this digital recorder.
It's called the DR-60.
It's from the 1990s and it'sdiscontinued.
People think it's a piece ofcrap.
It's very controversial theywant.
I think the lowest asking priceI saw was like 1500 do not, do
(28:10):
not, oh my god, wow, there'sother reporters out there and,
like all my friends, have them.
Trust me, I'm in like the.
I wish I had one club, justlike everyone else.
But yeah it's, it's not reallyworth it.
I have this feeling that I'mgonna like manifest it and like
find it in a goodwill for likethree dollars, like yeah, I'm
(28:31):
that delusional no, I thinkthat's.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
That's great.
That's like a firm boundary too, of like you know.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
This is the way I'll find it, yeah like I said, you
have it on your phone.
You would be surprised theamount of things you can catch
on your phone.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I'm curious, do you believe, like so growing up,
right when our parents both itsounds like we're like stop
doing Ouija boards.
You know it's like.
Do you like?
Do you have a thought that,like my mom was like you know,
you're letting demons in thehouse as would you investigate
your house?
Or do you feel like that's likeplaying with fire in a place
you want to keep safe?
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I see, the thing is is that I think I think it's
already haunted because I liveby this, like I live by
cemeteries and stuff.
I don't know if it's anythingthat from me or like from the
cemeteries or stuff.
So I, I think I don't, I don'tknow, I don't, I don't think I'd
ever really investigate myhouse.
I don't think it's more of likethe fact that you know, like I
(29:27):
want it to be like my safe space, because I really don't, I
really don't mind, I, I don'tthink it's more of like the fact
that you know like I want it tobe like my safe space, cause I
really don't, I really don'tmind, I just don't, I just don't
think I want to like it's justone of those things where it's
like, yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
This is like my big question that I'm like, so
excited to talk to you about.
You go to many places.
We have established that Firstquestion of many about these
places that you explore what isyour favorite, what is like of
the places you've been to?
This is my ultimate place toinvestigate and it just feels
the best to me.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
The one that's coming instantly to my mind is Waverly
Hills, and I think that'smainly because that's been my
number one spot ever since I waslike eight years old, having
the chance to investigate itprobably like, I think, like six
or seven times now within likethe last couple years.
It has kind of felt like home.
It has a very, very peacefulfeeling to it and a lot of
people don't really think thatit would, mainly because of the
(30:16):
history that it has, but I don'tknow.
Just I I don't know if it'sbecause of, like, all the
memories we made thereintertwined with, like, the
energy that's there too, butit's just I don't know.
I haven't had a bad time atWaverly, like even when, like
the activity was very low andlike nothing was really going on
.
I was just happy to be therelike the first, the first time
(30:36):
we ever investigated it.
I remember, like pulling up inmy car and just being like, if
the ghosts don't say hi tonight,I'm good, I'm okay that.
I drove eight hours to just behere because I just, I just want
to be in the space.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
I think I think that's the top one.
Waverly is like my bucket list.
I've never been.
We actually have an episodefrom the pandemic on or maybe a
little after the pandemic, buton the history of Waverly.
And then we had a friend wholives closer geographically.
He actually went and he's askeptic and he was like an
experience.
I need to talk to you about it.
(31:09):
So he came on the podcast andlike told us, but like his
partner was really into it, soshe sort of like dragged him
there and then he ended up, ofcourse, having like an
experience yeah, like the firsttime we were ever there, my
friend, steve, who I've becomereally, really close friends
with he just did a call out onInstagram was like, hey, I
booked this date.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
There's like nine other spots open if you want it
and I think, like within likehim posting that story on
Instagram within 30 seconds, Iwas like what's your Venmo?
I wanted, and that first nightwe we ended up having one of the
most like the one of theexperiences that I I feel like
I've been talking about itforever and I always mention it,
(31:51):
but it was when the doorslammed on us and the body shoot
when we were completely alone.
So it was me and three othergirls and we ran away from the
other group.
They all had no idea where wewent and I think they were.
Uh, they were like up twofloors on the other side of the
hospital.
I thought they had their walkieon.
They didn't.
(32:11):
We were down in the body chuteand if you don't, if you don't
know what it is, it's this longtunnel that was first used for
construction, but then, as thedeath rates for TB got really
bad, they started pushing thebodies out of there, so the
patients didn't actually knowhow many people were dying.
So we got down there and youknow, we were just taking
(32:34):
pictures and kind of just beingfunny and you know, just hanging
out, and I was up right like onthe first stair and I couldn't
shake the feeling that Icouldn't stop looking over my
shoulder towards the only exitand entrance.
I was like something's going topop out there, like I don't
know what it is, and we're goingto have to run down and we're
going to be stuck and we're alljust kind of hanging out.
Someone said that they want todo a digital recorder session.
So I put mine down.
Someone put like someone waslike I think someone heard the
(32:56):
echo and they're like oh yeah,nevermind.
So I was like I don't care, I'mgoing to leave mine down there.
And then after that one of thegirls said that they heard a
whisper come from down the farend of the tunnel.
So I finally broke my attentionaway from the door and as my
recorder flipped over to aminute, it was just pure silence
(33:18):
and all you just hear is boomand all of us just start
screaming bloody murder.
One of them was like what wasthat?
I think I was like I don't know, and like me and this other one
just took off running and welike went to the sound and after
we figured it out that it wasthe emergency exit door and the
motion light was on outside,there was like no one around, oh
(33:39):
my god.
Um, we tried radioing the people, like the other group from like
hey, like where are you guys?
Like nothing came through, andso I gave it a minute.
We all like kind of collectedourselves and we started walking
and at one point I was justtrying to be funny because like
we were still radioing them andwe weren't hearing anything and
I was like you can't ignore me,like just radio me.
(34:01):
And I don't know if the ghostheard that as like a challenge,
because after that door slam andafter that moment it kicked off
like this last hour of justpure chaos with the civilians oh
my god we were hearing gigglingand chairs moving, like it
sounded like metal on metal andat one point I thought it was
(34:23):
like the body tray coming outand I was like we have to go.
We have to go down there, um,but it wasn't, but it sounded
like the chair outside of thedoor.
At the very end of the night,we did what was called the
Waverly challenge, where you'resupposed to walk floor by floor
by yourself, um, without aflashlight nope.
I, I wanted no part of it.
(34:43):
Like part of me was like, yeah,let's totally do it.
I'm just like I'm dying.
Um, so three, three people.
They walked out of like thegreen room we were in and they
started the challenge, and meand these two other girls we
were going to do it, but like wewere going to do it as like
just the three of us togetherand we didn't know where the
other group went.
So we got our stuff and we wereon the first floor and I
(35:06):
radioed them like hey, we'reabout to start.
Little did I know that.
And we were on the first floorand I radioed them like hey,
we're about to start.
Little did I know that theywere up on the fifth floor
waiting for us and they heard me, like they heard my voice, and
saw flashlights in the stairway,thought we were coming up.
We never came up and then they,like they heard the radio come
in, saying was like hey, it's me, we're going to start on the
(35:27):
first.
That's so freaky.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yeah, wow, wow that's wild.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Most recently we were there last march.
We we were getting ready tolike wrap up the second night of
events that we had there and wewere saying goodbye to like our
last guest, and this was likeprobably like 4, 4, 30 in the
morning.
So we were all exhausted and wehad all our stuff in our hands
and we go to start walking downthe hallway and you just hear
this blood curdling scream.
(35:54):
It was a female.
I like just my face dropped andI go, oh no, like that's our
tour guide, because we had likeshe wasn't old, but she was like
older.
I thought she got hurt.
I was like you guys have to gocheck on her.
Like we can't leave.
So we were all about to go walkdown the hallway into the actual
like patient rooms where weheard the scream and right as we
(36:18):
get to the doors, the tourguide comes out with paper
towels in her hands and she'slike what's going on?
You guys look like you saw aghost and we're like are you
good?
We did yeah, you saw a ghost.
And we're like are you good?
We did yeah, and we're justlike are you good?
She's like yeah, I'm fine.
What's going on?
We're like you didn't.
You didn't hear that scream.
She's like no, but you guys cango check it out if you want.
(36:38):
Oh my god, wow, that's wild.
Yeah, um, so she ended up takingthe group that we were like
trying to like get out, like thetail end of our friends.
She ended up taking them downto the hill so they could get
out of the gate, and we tookthat time to walk the entire um
hospital to make sure we didn'tleave anyone behind.
And no one was there.
So I don't know where thatscream came from.
No, like from what I know, noone was outside.
(37:01):
So waverly waverly knows how tolike leave you with a story or
two yeah, oh my gosh, okay,that's got to be like.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
My 2024 goal is to go .
I really want to go.
It's enough is enough.
Now is the time you have to.
I have to.
I have to.
Okay now next question onlocations that's your favorite
that you've been to, what's likeyour bucket list location that
you haven't been to yet?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
oh, so there's actually two.
So in the top, in the top three, there's only one place I
haven't been able to cross offyet, and that's Pennhurst State
School in.
Pennsylvania.
That one has been on my listfor a number of years and I kind
of don't even want to go thereto investigate, I kind of just
want to go there to be there.
(37:45):
It's one of those places whereI know it's haunted.
It doesn't need to prove itselfto me, it is just.
It's just been a place that'sso embedded into my life because
, like I said before, I was ateacher or a teacher aid for
kids with special needs.
I have people with specialneeds in my family.
So like that whole history andeven just I don't want this to
(38:09):
come up, like me I don't reallymean or anything but like the
history of what we did to peoplein asylums and institutions
fascinates me because I trulydon't understand how one person
can do that to another person.
And I don't think I will ever beable to understand that.
So just being there and beingin that space and kind of like
(38:30):
paying my respects to thosepeople is something that I want
to do, like I would love toinvestigate it Don't get me
wrong, and I probably will, butmy main goal of going there is
to pay my respects and just tobe in the space and ask someone
who was in the field.
I feel like I can connect more.
So there's that, but I wouldsay the number fourth spot is
(38:53):
the Winchester Mystery House.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Oh, I've been there.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Ah, that one has been on my list and my friends have
gone a couple times this yearand I just, I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Okay, okay, very cool .
I feel like I'm in thecommunity now because I've been
there.
It's very cool.
I would love to talk to youabout it after you go, because I
actually have fairly strongopinions on it, but I wouldn't
want to say anything to likespoil any of it.
So once you go we'll chat again.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
Hopefully this summer , if everything lines up,
hopefully a trip out there thissummer will work, amazing.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
Okay, if it does, I'll FaceTime you and just sob
Please, please, please.
I would love to chat about it.
That would be amazing.
Okay, those are great.
And then, do you have any likelocations outside of the US?
Are you mostly kind of likeinterested in exploring the US?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Oh no, I would actually love to go overseas.
Actually, in 2020, I think itwas 21, I was supposed to go to
Romania.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
That's my dream.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
Yeah, I want to say 2019,.
I did a trip over overseas andI was in London for the ball
drop, so I spent New Year's Evethere and I was like holy cow, I
really want to do this again.
So I ended up booking a trip acouple months later to go back
to Ireland and like go down likethe the south of it, because
that's where I was before I wentto London and then COVID hit so
(40:21):
I couldn't go and then, I usedthat money to go to Rome or to
book a trip to Romania and theysuckered me in with Dracula's
castle and I was just likehonest, like really, really,
we're going to do this, say nomore.
So I paid and then everythingwent down and I, I couldn't go
but that that is one of, like,the top ones for the um outside
(40:42):
the US, mainly because Iremember being like I't know
probably 10 watching ScariestPlaces on Earth, and the family
that they sent to Romania wasactually from Buffalo.
So I just have this like vividmemory of everyone watching at
my house and like we were downin the basement and I'm just
like that's going to be me.
I'm going to go there, we'regoing to do it.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
That's great, those are such, those are perfect.
Yes, I have the same, I'malways sending out.
Great, those are such, thoseare perfect.
Yes, I have the same, I'malways sending out.
I'm like, look, we could getthis all inclusive, because I
also not going to drive aroundRomania, so I need to be on a
tour because, you know, I don'thave the skill set to even drive
around the US.
I'm not going to be like, sure,let me drive in a foreign
country.
So I'm always like looking forlike group tours through like
Dracula's Castle.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
I think I did like it was.
It was like some like ultimatebreak one.
I kept hearing about it on theradio when I was working.
This one like this one, odd job, no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
And then I looked it up and I was like all right,
hold on now.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I mean I would hope that you know like the universe
lines up where I can do that, orjust go back to Ireland again.
Ireland was really fun.
Spike Island there, and LepMansion, lep Castle, one of them
.
Just the history and thefolklore there is just
phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Yeah, it's so cool and that's what draws me to it
as well.
Even if you don't have aparanormal experience or
something doesn't have aparanormal history like it's so
fascinating it's actual historyand dark and so many things that
it's like endlessly fascinating.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
I think I heard it like right after I listened to
like a Bobby Mackey story and Iwas like, honestly, this goes
like this is so true when itgoes to the story of Pearl,
because the story of like whatactually happened to her was so
much stranger than what thelegend is.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Right, yeah, have you ever had an experience, you
know, whether during aninvestigation or otherwise, that
stands out as bizarre, likeobviously everything in the
paranormal is like unexplainedand question mark, question mark
, but something that was justlike bizarrely different from
other experiences that you'vehad?
Speaker 2 (42:48):
this is.
This is a good one, because nowI'm trying to like think back
into like all the experienceI've had and I'm like, is that
one, that one, bizarre enough?
The the two that are coming tomy mind right now, I will say
the one was from Waverly and ithappened last year, mainly
because I never I've alwaysheard about like people seeing,
like seeing people like actuallystanding there.
(43:08):
I I'm a firm believer, like Iwant the experience of seeing a
person in the flesh standingthere and then just vanishing,
like I want that full bodyapparition, like that.
And Waverly kind of gave melike a half body apparition.
So what was really bizarre tome in that moment was me and my
friend Dylan.
We were doing the events thisyear, so we had a free roam type
(43:32):
of event and you know we werejust doing rounds making sure
everyone was doing okay.
So we were walking aroundwithout a flashlight and we were
walking up and down the hallwayand I was look, I was on the
terminal side, so I wasn't onthe sun porch side.
I always, I always have thisfear that I'm gonna look into a
room and I'm gonna see someonestanding there and part of me
(43:52):
wants that experiment experience.
But part of me doesn't, becausewhat am I gonna do if someone
is actually standing there?
I'm probably just gonna screamand freak out.
I remember walking down thehallway we were probably like
almost by like the first bendand I looked over and it looked
like there was someone standingthere from the waist down with
(44:12):
the white gown and like the legs, and within a split second of
me, just like blinking my eyesand being like wait, what the
hell was that?
It was gone.
And I looked at Dylan and I waslike, did you like, did you see
someone standing there?
He's like no, and I was like,oh crap, like it's one of those
moments where it's so bizarre,where it's like no one's gonna
freaking believe this.
I just like I remember thepattern on the hospital gown.
(44:35):
I remember what it looked like.
Now that I'm saying the onethat kind of comes to my mind
right now, or the second onethat's really really bizarre.
It's one that I like, reallydon't.
I've just started talking aboutbecause, like I don't, I don't
know what happened.
We were doing the Estes method.
We were doing it in at theMid-Orange Correctional Facility
in Warwick, new York, so that'sabout like 60 miles away from
(44:57):
New York City.
It was a boys reform school andthen it turned into a medium
security prison and then it gotshut down and now it is kind of
like a soccer school or they'retrying to like make it into
dorms again type of thing.
It's one of my like top 10favorite places and we were in
one of the dorms.
(45:17):
It was B1.
It was probably the first timewe were in there, so this was
last year.
We had two people going under atthe same time.
I was under um with thelistening to the spirit box and
having the blindfold on.
I was under in the hallway andI think it was cassie, this girl
.
Cassie, she was in like what itnow?
It's like a big room, but itheld beds along the wall, like
(45:41):
it was just kind of like abigger room for the inmates and
she was getting some stuff andsince it's in the Catskills
Mountains, you really don't haveradio interference, so it's
perfect.
So I was getting nothing butpure static and we we probably
did this at like three in themorning, so I was starting to
fall asleep and in that I wasjust sitting there.
I was like it's fine, you knowwhat?
(46:02):
I'm just slowly going to fallasleep.
So I started dozing off and Iwas like catching myself and the
one instance I must have beenlike in like a trance or
something.
I don't even want to say thatbecause I don't even know what
it was.
(46:25):
So I was sitting up like upagainst the wall and at one
moment it was kind of like aflash of an image.
But what I was seeing was thestaircase, directly by the
window or like by the door wherewe came in, and I saw someone
standing there.
Her hand was on the railing,like I saw her gripping the
railing, so I saw from basicallyher chest down.
She was in like a white shirt.
It looks like a black skirt,like tucked in, kind of like an
(46:46):
old fancy teacher.
Yeah, I remember sitting thereand I snapped out of it and I
couldn't even like put intowords, I couldn't hear what was
happening around me because Iwas, I had the noise canceling
headphones on and at one point Iwas like hey guys, I don't know
what this is, but I had avision, but something is telling
me to pay attention to thestaircase, and little did I know
(47:25):
that a minute before I saidthat the people who were in the
hallway were looking at the doorin the same area that I saw in,
like my vision, or whatever youwant to call it.
They were seeing someonestanding there and they were
blocking out the little windowand then it would just sink into
the floor.
Whoa, I don't know who I saw.
I think it was the dorm mother,because back in the day in the
reform school days, thesetroubled youth, they would live
in these dorms and each dorm hadlike a dorm mother and a dorm
father that would look over them.
So I think she was pokingaround that night and didn't
really know what we were doing.
(47:45):
And I kind of don't blame herfor poking around, because this
was like this was our first timein like the set of dorms and I
don't think anyone like reallyreally goes into them.
So yeah, that's probably one ofthe most bizarre things I've
had happen.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
That's so crazy.
I mean the interesting thingtoo.
What I was first hearing whenyou were talking about it is
like those two stories you justshared were both bottom half
almost, or like not head, and Iwas like huh, I've never thought
about seeing people usuallylike a face like not just like
someone's legs, like that's sointeresting.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Yeah, and now that I'm thinking about it too, the
first time when I went towaverly we were, we all went
into I think it was like thefourth floor hallway, because
that's where they say they seelike shadows and stuff, but we
were all scattered, so like Ithink, I like told everyone to
kind of like go in like a zigzagso we can like space out not
seem like so intimidating.
I was looking behind this this,my friend Mark, and what looked
?
It looked like someone with awalker that's the only way I can
describe it.
Like someone, like having likea walker, and they were like
(48:46):
walking with it.
I could and once again I couldsee the bottom, I could see
their legs.
Maybe, it's just something withme, just, I just can only see
the bottom half.
That's fine, I don't need tosee anymore.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
I love it, though, and it's so interesting too.
I think like the vision piece,because it also sounds like you
have not to define yourexperience, but you have like
this almost like spiritual,meditative way of approaching
all of this too, and you'reaware of, like energy, and so I
like the idea of the vision andhow that could be, like a way
that people are communicatingwith you right or whatever it is
(49:23):
is is communicating with youbecause you're open-minded to it
.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Yeah, and like in that moment, I was like I think
I made that up, like, and I Iknow for a fact, like I saw what
I saw, like it is so embeddedin my mind, and like there's
still a moment where, like Icompletely made that up but then
, like I re-watched Hellier,where they started doing the
thing and the whole tin canthing, I was like, yeah, all
right, maybe I didn't make thisup then.
Like, all right, like this is athing.
So I mean I don't know, but Iwas talking with someone and
(49:46):
they were like, yeah, I think Ithink you've kind of found
yourself like in a trance typeof thing where I mean it makes
sense, because I was listeningto nothing but pure, pure white
noise and, right, I mean I wasalready exhausted at that point.
So I think, like the everythinglined up perfectly for me to
see that.
And now in this year I'm likestuck trying to like chase that,
(50:08):
because I just want that wholething again.
I just maybe just a little bitlonger this time.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Yeah yeah, no, totally I love it.
It feels like addicting in away, like you know, once you
like sort of accept that okay,there's stuff happening, like
now I'm I'm eager to like seewhat where else it could go.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah, like once, once I have my little freak out
about it and get over with itlike there's something there
that's cool yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yeah, Okay, my, my last question for you actually I
have two more, but my lastquestion on the paranormal, I
imagine, because I feel like Isometimes post videos about
hauntings and history and I geta lot of pushback.
Do you get a lot of pushbackfrom people who are skeptics and
, if so, how do you approachthat?
Or do you sort of say likethat's your world, this is my
world and that's fine?
Speaker 2 (50:53):
So I feel like it's more of like the second of what
you said.
There are moments where I thepushback I seem to get comes
from like whenever I postevidence, and that is so far and
few between really Like nowthat I think about it, I really
don't post that much evidence.
I post EVPs.
I really don't post like ifanything.
(51:14):
I kind of like go, try to golive and investigate when we're
together or like when, when wehave the moment, but whatever
pushback I get is kind ofsomeone just being like I don't
think it said that Like ghostsaren't real.
I'm just like all right, Likecome on.
In this day and age if you, ifyou want to believe that ghosts
aren't real, so be it.
I'm not going to be here, I'mnot going to be the one to
(51:36):
change your mind.
Listen, the world is coming toan end soon.
Let's just enjoy what we have.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Right, that's what I say.
Why don't we enjoy it a little,right?
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Let people just like what they like.
I like ghosts.
I like thinking I'm talking tothe air, thinking that it's
talking back to me.
I like having the weird thingshappen, like it's just, it is
what it is, and if that's notyour cup of tea, then so be it.
Yeah, I love that.
Just let me tell my littleghost stories, in peace.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
I love that you have a great.
You have a thick skin.
I get very fired up but I Ilike crave to, not.
You know, I would love to belike you know, that's fine.
We believe different things andit's okay.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
There are times where things get to me like we're
human.
It happens.
You also have to realize thatin this day, and like social
media, there are a lot of peoplejust hiding behind the
keyboards just wanting to likerain on everyone's parade, and
it's nothing is worth it in thisday and age.
Yeah, that's true, you're amute button away.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
Yeah, that's very true, that's very true.
Ok, my last question for you,which again we ask everybody on
the podcast say what are yourtop three favorite horror movies
, or do you even like horror?
Speaker 2 (52:45):
Oh my god, yes, so I do, but I kind of I'm not a
movie person and this is likewhat do you mean by that?
I love watching trailers andbeing like oh.
I love seeing that.
Like I can't wait to see itwhen it comes out.
Like will I watch it when itcomes out?
Probably not, um, but like whenI do actually watch movies.
Like around halloween amc hashorror fest on it's background
(53:09):
noise all month long.
If I had to pick three top ones, I would say the blur witch
project, grave encounters andEncounters and Texas Chainsaw
Massacre.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
Okay, all right, oh weird Three, but those are my
three and I'm sticking to it.
No, not strange at all.
I mean Blair Witch Project,excellent Agree, I've never seen
Grave Encounters.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
Oh, that is see.
Now there's a second one too.
It is a.
It's not even a mockumentary,it is a spinoff of Ghost
Adventures.
So if you ever heard me saygrave adventures, I'm
referencing this movie, becauseI constantly get the two
confused.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
It's just grave adventures to me because they're
mocking off Ghost Adventures.
I know exactly what they'retalking about Got it.
But if you're into theparanormal world, think of it
like it's a ghost hunting orlike, yeah, it's a ghost
adventures episode that goeswrong.
There's a little like cheesyparts to it, but I really like
it.
It gave me a few good jumpscares, like when I watched it.
I watched it on my laptop forthe first time and I was texting
(54:14):
someone and I I jumped scaredand like my phone sat me in my
face it was.
I was like that's incredible,like you got me there.
But but yeah, I I wouldrecommend it.
I watched the second one.
I should probably re-watch itagain, but I I think as a
paranormal investigator, it wasjust fun to see someone finally
like take on like this idea ofgoing on a ghost hunt and having
(54:38):
things go wrong.
So I don't know I don't want tospoil it too much, but okay I'm
gonna watch it.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
I'm gonna watch it.
I'm so excited I have.
It's bizarre that I haven'teven heard of it, because I feel
like I'm always watching horrormovies.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
But I'm going to it's kind of yeah, it's kind of like
a b film, like it's not reallylike an indie, where, like no
one's heard of it but, but it'salso not that like mainstream.
I think it was on Netflix.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
Okay, I'll report back.
I can't wait to watch it.
That's so exciting, courtney.
It has been so fun.
I feel like this is just partone, because I feel like this
was like the basics and now Iwant to get into like the
advanced level with you, becauseyou've taught me a lot.
I feel like I'm ready to gointo Waverly Hills now with just
(55:22):
like my phone and my flashlightand my open-mindedness and I'm
going to accept whatever happens.
I sincerely hope that our pathscross in person at some point
this year, because that would besuch a treat.
But thank you so much for beingon the podcast and talking
through all of this.
For anybody who doesn't followCourtney if it's possible
there's anybody please followher.
It's the Ghoul Guide.
On TikTok, on Instagram, onTwitter, everywhere on social
(55:44):
media, right YouTube, it's theGhoul Guide.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
Ghoul Guide, same handle, same ghoul, same
shenanigans.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
And Courtney also has incredible merch, which we have
some incredible stickers andevery so often she'll do like a
Polaroid sale of different kindof haunted Polaroids of these
really cool locations which Ialso use as bookmarks when I'm
reading, and I love them.
Yeah, so please, please, followher on Instagram and everywhere
else and kind of keep your eyesopen for all this stuff,
(56:11):
because it's 10 out of 10.
Well, thank you, of course, ofcourse.
Thank you, guys, so much forlistening and we'll talk to you
soon.
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.