Navigating Relationships and Success: Lessons in Love from Khadeen and Devale

Episode Transcript
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Derrick Young (00:00):
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Ramunda Young (00:40):
Let's get this party started.
Y'all ready?
Right.
So I have the honor of introducingour amazing moderator, Ms.
Jeanette Reyes.
Jeanette

(01:03):
Reyes is a seasoned reporter.
An influencer.
In 2020, she was hired by Fox 5in Washington, right here in D.
C.
as the morning news anchor rolethat shows off her multiple skills.
From her values as a journalist to thefact that she speaks multiple linguas.
Multiple?
Just two.
Okay.
Two.
Bye.
Dos.
Okay.

(01:23):
But please help me welcomeJeanette to the stage.
Thank you for moderating tonight.

Jeannette Reyes (01:31):
Who watches Fox 5?
Who watches startingat six in the morning?
Who's supposed to be in bed?
Okay.
I'm supposed to be in bed, butthis was well worth it to come
out and be with y'all tonight.
Thank you for coming out.
I really appreciate this.
Um, this for me is off the record.
We don't have these conversations atwork, at least during the commercials.
We might, uh, but we're,we're going to get real.

(01:54):
We're going to get deep tonight.
If you guys know, you know, that that's.
That's their motto.
Right?
They, they get real.
It's unfiltered.
I do want to know though, get abit of a, of the lay of the land
here who's single show hands
who is in a relationship,
situation ship, entanglement,

(02:18):
who does not know whatthe heck they're in.
Okay.
I listen.
It happens.
It's okay.
It's okay.
All right.
Well, hopefully you all feel inspired.
You get some clarity tonight and, um,You might walk out of here and feel like
I'm ready to make a decision, right?
Personally in my life.
All right.
So, uh, let's get to it here.

(02:39):
Uh, I want to introduce you tothe stars of the night here.
Deval is a former NFL player,now an actor and singer.
Star on Tyler Perry's sisters and hisvery own spinoff, uh, shows a team on BT.
Cadeen is a former entertainmentreporter, content creator,
actress, and businesswoman.
They are the parents of four beautifulboys and together they are the co

(03:01):
creator of the Ellis's on YouTubeand their Webby award winning
podcast, Dead S, which they live by.
Uh, join me in welcoming Cadeen and Deval.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Yes.

Khadeen Ellis (03:32):
It's giving black history month.
Excellent.
Look at all of these beautiful faces.

Devale Ellis (03:37):
I am so

excited tonight.
How y'all feeling?
We're feeling great.
Do you ever, do you everget a little nervous

before these things?
I think it's always a littlelike anxiety just to kind of get
started and meeting everybody.
So it's natural.
But then once I get here, Nah,

I haven't played football.
It's like When you have to try tocatch a punt in front of 80, 000 people
and 4 million people watching at homeand that ball goes up in the air and
it's like this big and you got 250pound men running down to kill you.
Once you've been through that, it'skind of like, eh, what am I nervous?

We can't relate to that specifically.
He puts me through some footballworkouts though, so he makes
me feel like I'm an athlete.
Well, I'm excited to talk to y'alland I'm sure they are as well.
I, I'm going to.
Let's start like with the basics here.
Okay.
Why write a book?
Why put, I mean, I know you all putyour business out there and people
love it cause you inspire themand you, you're relatable, but why

(04:36):
get into detail, put it in writingwhere it lives on forever and ever?

That was actually my apprehension.
I was like, once a book is outthere and black and white on
paper, there's no turning back.
Like my grandkids, my great grandkids,if books are still around by then, I
think there'll still be a living thing,but I'm like, they're going to be able
to see all my business in these streets.
Right.
Um, but a book made sense for us.
I felt like it was kind of a naturalsuccession for us because we of course

(05:01):
started with our, you know, putting videoson Instagram and then our YouTube channel.
Then we had dead ass, which wasactually, I felt like it was an Thanks.
Extension of the video.
So if we talk about something, forexample, finances in a funny video,
we were able to unpack that in apodcast episode, but then also to
Deval And I looked at the 20 yearsthat we've had together so far, and 12

(05:21):
married, and we're like, you know what?
Social media oftentimes tendsto be the highlight reel.
Of everything going on and I meet peoplesometimes and they're like, you know,
I can't wait to find my deval or I wishI had me a cadene and I'm like, well,
deval and cadene y'all see here todayare not deval and cadene 20 years ago.
It took a lot of work and sacrifice.

(05:43):
to get here.
So it was important for us to really thinkabout moments that we can put in the book
that were pivotal for us as a couple.
So people can see that we've beenputting in the work for a very long time.

For me, it was just books are like the earliest medium when you, Oh,

is that somebody's boss going off in

the It would give me spaceship vibes, like
beam me up Scotty, you hear it?
That's an interesting ringtone.
It was

an interesting ringtone.
But um, if you think about all themediums that have come and gone, right?
Like DVDs, no one uses those anymore.
CDs, 8 track, cassette tapes.
Books don't go anywhere.
And if you want to leave yourimprint on humanity, what better
way than to do it in a book?

The subtitle really stood out to me, the counterintuitive
approach to getting everythingyou want from a relationship.
What stood out to me was counterintuitive.
What does that mean in this context?

Well, if you really think about the world we live in today,
right, there are so many conversationson social media about what men
deserve and what women deserve, right?
And it's become a battle of the sexes.
You know, if, if I'm going to go into arelationship, he or she is required to
have this, and they have a list of thingsthat they require their partner to have.
And over the past, I'd say, how old isKyra six, six years, we both have realized

(07:00):
that if you really want to have a strongfoundation in your relationship, it's
not about the list you create, and ifyour partner checks the list, it's about
what you can provide and be of service tothat your partner can then reciprocate.
So if you think about it.
Wow.
Checkmate.
You see it?
And that sound like a woman hasbeen married for a long time, right?
Is that what I'm saying?
Oh, no, not yet.
But you got it though.

(07:22):
Because the thing is, is we put somuch pressure on everyone else to
be perfect and be exactly what theysupposed to be to measure up to us.
And we don't think about how wecan bring things to the table.
And it's counterintuitive to go intoa relationship and say, what can I
do to be of service to this person?
Right?
We're always thinking aboutwhat can this person do for me?
But it wasn't until we started to be ofservice to each other that we got the best

(07:45):
versions of each other for each other.

When I really think about even just, you can clap for my baby.
Go ahead, clap for him.

And that was off the top too.
I ain't even write that down.
It was very

poetic.
It was very poetic.
No, I just think aboutDeVal and I's relationship.
We were together for 13 years,together, eight married five before we
even figured this service thing out.
Right.
Who listens to the podcast?
You guys remember the episode,um, simp and submission.

(08:19):
I was going to get into that, butI'm jumping the gun here a bit.
But Deval and I got a lot of slack forthat because people felt like, well,
man, you know, he's a simp because hecaters to his wife and oh, she submits
it because she listens to her husband.
But for us, we really feellike the service component.
Is really what allowed us to beable to not only communicate better,

(08:42):
but anticipate each other's needs.
Right?
So I think about this, you wakeup in the morning, you next to
your spouse, to your partner.
And the first thing that entered my mindafter we made this revelation was what
can I do to make devalues day better?
How can I alleviate some of the stress?
What can I take off of his plate to justmake it that much lighter for him today?
Because we have so many moving parts.

(09:03):
Right.
And the minute I did that, I almost sawlike the light in his eye, like, Oh, wow.
Okay.
Like you took the timeto think about me today.
Here's something I can use help with.
And then by doing that, it then freedup time or space for him to say,
you know what, that was thoughtful.
What can I do now for you tomake your day that much better?

I think that's key because what people miss
is that it's reciprocated.
It's not a one way street, right?
Exactly.
And what people hear.
Service and submission, theyhear you do, do, do for me.
Cause I'm a man andthat's the way it goes.

But, but I also think it's important for people to understand
how we got to that point, right?
Like it wasn't some magical momentwhere the Dean just woke up and said,
let me start to serve my husband.
That didn't happen.
I remember it was, sorry guys.
It doesn't happen like

that.

And this is, this is part of the brutal honesty, and I'm going to
speak to the gentleman in the room, right?
It is okay for us, as men, to say whatwe need, what we want, and what we
desire, if you are willing to be ofservice to the person that you want
to be with for the rest of your life.
For example, I'll never forget, it wasDecember 31st, 2020, we were getting
ready to move into our home or getting,we had just finished closing on our home.

(10:13):
We're getting ready to move into thehome, but we were in her parents house.
And I said, okay, letme ask you a question.
When you wake up in the morning, what'sthe first thing that comes to your mind?
And the first thing she said was thekids, um, got to get something to eat.
I know I get my workout in,got to figure out what my boss.
And she ran through awhole gamut of stuff.
And I said, do you realizeyou haven't even named me yet?
And she was like, wow.

(10:36):
And I said, you know, when I first wakeup in the morning, my first thing is
let me make sure that my wife is okay.
And then she said that never reallyclicked to me because you're always okay.
And that's when I realized thatI was doing a poor job of telling
my wife that I'm not always okay.
I was always trying to wear the cape.
I was always trying to be theprovider and the protective.

(10:57):
And then once I let my guard down andbecame more vulnerable, that's when
my wife started to realize that, waita minute, if he's not always okay, I
have to be the one to be there for him.
So, and I tell you that story becauseI don't want people to think that
it's a magical thing that happens.
You have to be brutally honestabout what you want and that
goes for men and for women.

It's key that you didn't get defensive, or at least I'm not
getting that she was defensive about it.
Um,

no, she, no, and we had a lot of defensive
conversations before that.
Oh, there were a lot of

defensive moments because I was perfect.
Don't get it twisted.
Okay?
I was perfect and you werethe one with the problems.
You know?
Um, but I was, I, I really had to reflectbecause I also realized like certain
roadblocks in our relationship over thecourse of the 20 years that I'm like, man,
am I, am I listening or am I listening?
There's a difference.
And not just actively listening, but alsotaking the steps to make changes, right?

(11:47):
So I think for a long time theywere falling on deaf ears with me
at least, because again, I lookat Deval and he's always okay.
I always got it.
Just recently we had something happenlast November where he was just
completely burnt out, passed out on set.
It was a major thing.
And I'm in Jamaica, Dutty windingon the beach, drinking my rum
punch at my friend's wedding.

(12:08):
And he says, yeah, you know,my blood pressure's low.
I'm dehydrated.
I kind of passed out onthe set, but I'm okay.
I'm gonna go home, sleep,drink some water, get an IV.
I'll be fine.
And I'm like, all right, cool.
You know, cause I thoughthe was going to be fine.
Never knew the extent to which thingswere happening because he's always fine.
So now I'm even more purposefulnow about looking him in the eye

(12:29):
and he looks at me crazy nowadays.
Like I literally just said tohim today, like I looked at
him, I'm like, are you okay?
And he's like, yeah,why are you asking me?
I asked him several timesbecause I need to know.
I

need to know couple goals, relationship goals.
I'm sure y'all hear it all the time.
Do you cringe?
Are you like, I mean, what was that?
You cringe.
Okay.
I didn't know if it waslike, I mean, of course.
I mean, look at us.
Couple goals.
Why do you cringe?

Well, the funny thing is people always ask us,
who's the couple that you admire?
And I can never give them like a tie.
I can't.
They always say, who'sthe millennial couple?
There's a Jay Z and Beyonce, Russelland, and, and what's the name?
They just throw out so manynames and not for nothing.
I don't even judge those couples.
My thing is they're doing a good jobof being the best version of them.

(13:17):
I could never be Jay Z and Idon't ever want her to be Beyonce.
So us trying to be the bestversion of Jay Z and Beyonce
or Russell and what is, Ciara?
Sorry, Ciara.
Sorry, Ciara.
Even Michelle and, and Barack.
It's like, I don't haveanyone I look up to.
I look inward for my goals.
I say, how can I be the best version?
You know?

Is it because, cause I want you to elaborate.
Is it because you personally do not?
Or you don't think it's a goodidea to admire, to, to make, put a
couple on a pedestal, essentially.

I'm going to tell you why I don't.
I grew up with both my parents and Ithought that my parents were perfect.
And then as you get older, your parentsstart to show you how unperfect they are.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
And then you're like, wait a minute.

And a lot of things make sense too, especially as adults.
I mean, you realize that yourparents are human, right?
So we do a lot of reflection in thisbook when we talk about our parents
and the impact they've had on usbecause we realize in the first
five years of our marriage, evenprior to getting married, there was
really no focus or emphasis put on.
Showing us or teaching us or tellingus how to be a spouse, you know,

(14:28):
people get excited for the weddingand the engagement and all that.
But then once that happens and thedust settles, it's like, okay, well,
where's everybody at with the advice?

I'm gonna tell y'all exactly how it went down.
Right.

Somebody felt that.

I, I proposed to Kadeem and all the women said,
they rushed her off and
all
the men said,
so I'm sitting there, right?
And I'm just swingingmy, like, get married.

(15:04):
They were like, yeah, we see
you ready.
I'm like, I think so.
And they go, all right.
And that's it.
That like, that's all, that's theonly conversation any of the elders
in my family had with marriage.
So I was kind of like,Are you trying to warn me?

(15:26):
Like,

I want to ask you about that because you've spoken
about this before and I want you to,I'm going to paraphrase, but I want
you to like further elaborate in caseI'm getting it wrong, that you felt
pressured into monogamy or marriage.
Yes.
Right.
Okay.
Um, and I, I think it was probablytaken out of context and it
was probably triggering, butthat happens on social media.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It

was a full podcast episode on monogamy.
I think it was like a You know,30 minute clip that went viral and

people were slamming both of us.
Explain what you mean by that.
And then I want to talk about howmen specifically these days view
marriage, uh, and how women view it.
But that's for the secondpart of the question.
I'm

glad you asked that question because sometimes when
someone takes a 30 second clip Andthey say, Oh, he felt pressured.
He didn't want to get married.
Why get married?
She pressured him.
She was pushing him.
That wasn't the case.
During the time after Iproposed, this was 2008.
I was in my third year in the NFL.
I just bought my second home.
I was slated to make theroster 53 man roster.

(16:28):
I was making 500, 000 a year.
Life seemed perfect.
Right.
I proposed in 2008, mainly because Cadeenhad said to me, like, listen, I don't
want to be anyone's live in girlfriend.
Like we're living together.
I bought a home to show her that Iwas serious about our future, but I
wasn't sure yet if I was ready to bemarried mainly because of the financial

(16:51):
implications that go into planninga wedding and preparing a lifestyle.
And she was just like, well, prettymuch you got a shit to get off the
pot because I'm not going to be here.
She moved to Detroit.
And this is, this is something thatI didn't understand at that time.
But I understand now you ask your22 year old girlfriend to stop
her life, move to Detroit andfollow you and chase your dream.

(17:13):
Why would she do that without anysecurity that she's going to be okay?
So I understand that now, butat 22, I didn't understand that.
It just felt like pressure that summer.
I get cut.
Not only do I get cut, theeconomic crisis happens and I
lose 33 percent of all my savings.

(17:34):
And it's hemorrhaging because we'regoing through the biggest recession.
I went from making 500, 000 a year.
To nothing.
I have two mortgages, an apartment,three cars, and everybody else's
bills that I'm paying for.
So I told Kadeen, I don't knowif I'm ready to get married.
And it wasn't about being with her.
It was about handling theresponsibilities of being a husband.

(17:56):
Because in my mind, I wasn'teven thinking about the wedding.
I was thinking about the marriage.
Once I asked this woman to be my wife,I am prepared to do everything she
needs to have the life that she wants.
But if I can't do that, am Ireally ready to be a husband?
So in that moment, I feltpressure like, dang, I don't know
what the next step is for me.
She didn't necessarily put thepressure on me, but the pressure

(18:17):
was from society telling me, as aman, this is what you have to do.
And my young, immature ways thinkingthat I gotta be a man, I'm the
only one that could provide, yougotta stay at home and make babies.
So that's where the pressure came from.

Real quick, if he said he wasn't gonna get married,
Anytime soon, what would you have done?
I probably would have stayed.
He didn't call you.
See, see what I'm saying.
I probably would have stayed.
So yeah, that's the gag.
I probably would have.

(18:53):
In full transparency, here we are.
We might need a one on one.
The

ladies with you.
But in that moment though.
Again, societal pressure, right?
Women tend to have thischecklist by this age.
I need to do this.
By that age, I have to accomplish that.
I should start having children bythis age because I'm getting too old.
In the biological clock, there were allthese things that were flowing around
in my head and at me I felt like darts.
It's like you have to figure things out.

(19:21):
I told my super strict West Indianparents at 22, 23, almost when
I graduated from grad school.
I'm moving to Detroit to be with my man.
You know, my mother looked at me likeshe wants to put me over her knee and
give me a good old fashioned spanking.
Like what, how am I going to tellyour grandmother that you are moving
to some other state with a man?

(19:43):
Can you believe that?
That's everything that I wasgetting the pressure on that end.
And then also you hear thenarrative of don't be playing
house with no man, with no ring.
Don't be doing wife stuffon a girlfriend's bed.
So again, it was me.
Listening to the outside noise and notreally valuing and having the conversation

(20:04):
within to see where his mindset was.
I also knew too that I had my careerthat I was trying to jumpstart.
I was trying to get intonews and broadcasting.
That's not an easy industry, you know.
Girl, you would have started outin Little Rock, Arkansas, child.
Child!
Exactly!

We had that discussion too.

And then I said to my mom, I'm like, okay, well,
he's going to be in Detroit.
Lansing is like a really small market.
I can just go to Lansing and start there.
Meanwhile, I had no, no, nointentions of doing that.
I was going to be with him inDetroit because at that time also
too, I know he needed the support.
And I think early on in our relationship,we developed At the time, which
might've been an unhealthy codependencybecause we were dating through college.

(20:42):
We had each other.
This was the first time whenwe didn't have each other.
Then I'm hearing, Oh, Chad,are you going to the NFL?
Um, them groupies you'renot there to be with him.
So what's he doing at night?
You know?
So again, it was the noise.
It was the noise.
And in my immature ways at the time,I couldn't even foresee anything

(21:03):
else other than, um, The way tosecure this was to be married.
Gosh, I have so many

questions just from, from that statement.
No, because it, it leads to, so, Imean, I'll get to that in a second.
I do want to talk about when we, I feellike this day and age, when we talk
about marriage, men often look at itlike, I'm generalizing here or not.
I know not all men I'mdoing her a favor, right?
Like I'm blessing youwith the gift of marriage.

(21:28):
You're going to tie me down,but really I'm kind of taking
an L in a lot of areas here.
Whereas the woman looks to marriage,like, you know, like to, to make it to
marriage and to be a wife for a lot ofwomen, whether it's for the right reasons
or wrong ones is something that they, thatthey look to that they have as a goal.
Why is it that men, somemen look down on marriage?

(21:49):
Do you think that that's whatyour boys were getting at?
Like you going to do that?

Absolutely.
Like I'm, I'm going to be a hundredpercent honest if, if you don't have
someone that you're equally yokedwith, that's a friend that you can
build with marriage is a terriblebusiness proposition for whoever
is the breadwinner.
It's a terrible business proposition.
For example, say she'sbig wig on a news network.

(22:16):
Making seven figures, right?
And she's just like, Igot to check these boxes.
I got to get married because I'm a womanand I got to do all this other stuff.
So she meets a guy and the guy happens tobe me and I have no ambition, no anything.
I'm just there for the ride.
We get married.
She has two kids.
Her career goes on hold a little while.
She has two kids.
We get into an argument, we get divorced.
If we don't have a prenup, I'mentitled to 50 percent of everything.

(22:39):
She's worked her whole heart for herwhole life for plus she has to pay me
for the kids, if I'm not a breadwinner.
You see what I'm saying?
So imagine being a man and how many menhave gone through that because the court
system is not designed to protect men.
This is just a fact.
So it's a terrible, no,it's, it's the truth.
Oh,

now, you know, women are the most educated, um,
you know, group and we do research.
I'm just saying.
Absolutely.
So you think it works.
It's really the breadwinner thingthat ends up being a big factor.

I mean, it is definitely the breadwinner thing, but if we look
at statistics, more men out earn women.
So it is, uh, it's like we're at adisadvantage to just get married if
you don't have a friend or someonewho you're equally yoked with.
And that's part of the problem.
There is a process to finding outif this is the person you want to
spend the rest of your life with.
And if we don't go through thatprocess together, but while we're

(23:31):
trying to, the pressure is Youbetter marry me or I'm leaving.
Most men are going tobe like, fine, leave.
Because the truth of the matter isthe sexual revolution has changed.
Men don't have to work as hard to get sex.
There are plenty of women out here whoare willing to have sex because women
are doing what earning and making money.

(23:51):
There are a lot more women now thanbefore, who would just be like, I
don't need a man for anything elseother than to just drop some D off.
So if those, this is the truth,there are women out there who are
earners who'd be like, I don'tneed a man for anything else.
So if you're a man and you don'thave a woman you're evenly yoked with
and she wants to put pressure on youto get married, it's like deuces.

I can't just go

do that.

I think some men too feel like the standard of
the road, their sex life, right?
You're being locked down to one person.
I didn't think it was all financial.
I think that's it is havingto be committed to one person.
But that's why I also feel like, andI expressed this in the book that you
have to decide if marriage is for you.
Marriage is not anaspiration for everyone.

(24:33):
And that's okay.
I think the rhetoric that we'vebeen spewed for years is that
that's the aspiration for men andwomen, women, particularly, because
that was the only way a woman canget out of their parents house.
Think about it back in the day, theycouldn't get their own bank account.
So let me aspire to marriageso I can start my own life.
So in the book, I mentioned thatAnd which I hope people find through

(24:55):
reading the book, whether you're single,married in a committed relationship, I
heard you entanglement, situationship,whatever the case may be, you have
to decide if marriage is for you.
You can't expect for someone to make you.
A marriage person, for example, you meetsomeone, they knock you off your feet.
They're beautiful.
They're, you know, make money.

(25:15):
They have all the thing.
They checks the boxes, right?
That puts the onus on them tobe perfect and to be that person
who you met in that moment.
But can you withstand the test of time?
What if things change?
Circumstances change life, be life in.
So you can't expect for someoneto make you the marriage type.
You have to want to marry.
You have to want to be of serviceto someone and then find the person

(25:38):
that you're equally yoked with.
And I pray that people find that.
Cause I found that right here.

I appreciate that.
You did say something.
I know you asked me aquestion about the sex thing.
Cause we talk about sex a lot.

Doing it and doing it well.
Is that the thing?
Oh, yeah.
That's the shaft in the book, baby.
We don't talk about sex.

But there were two sides to it though, because you said you think
most men automatically assume this is.
This is the last person I'm going tohave sex with for the rest of my life.
Most of the men that I speak towho are afraid of getting married,
that's not even their biggest issue.
It is the money.
Would y'all

agree?
I mean, I don't know if you wantto say it out loud, the men.
I mean, most.
Okay.

I'm going to be honest.
I'm going to be honest.
Men, a man's value isin how much he earns.
Right?
Let's be honest.
If, when I told my guys that Imet a girl, the first thing they
said was, what she look like?
All of the women, when you say,I met a guy, what does he do?
Our value is in how much we earn.

(26:34):
So when, when your value as a boy,you've been taught that how much
money you make is going to determinehow successful you are, you're not
ready to just split that with anybody.
Right?
On top of that, when it comesto sex in marriage, marriage.
All of the men that I spoketo who were older than me told
me, Oh, you getting married?
Huh.
So last time you have sex regularly.
That is, that is the narrativethat is spewed to younger guys.

(26:55):
Because if we're being honest,that is what happens most of the
time when you have a child, right?
Women's bodies change.
And this is the mature devalue.
All the time.
Yes, all the time.
Yes.
This is the mature devalue talking.

Several times.

Yes.

Every time.
I got those little bigheaded boys to prove it.
Yeah.

Facts.

And stretch marks.

This is the mature devout speaking.
So I'm not speaking as if I knew this thewhole time and I was, no, I was fucked up.
Okay.
I got married at 26.
All right.
We had a baby right afterthat honeymoon in my mind.
I was like, fine.
She's going through stuffwhere she's pregnant.
She crazy.
I get it.
The minute this baby come out,she's gonna go back to normal.

(27:40):
I knew anything, I didn't doanything about postpartum depression.
I didn't know anything about sleepdeprivation after having a child.
I knew, I had no clue.

So,

you're talking about another nine months to a year after you had the
baby that if you were prepared by peopleto tell you to look out for this, you'd
be like, you know what, let me be ofservice and have grace for my partner.
But when you're thinking, you Then theytold me I wasn't gonna have no more sex.
Six weeks is up and she's not into it.
It's happening now.
That's like the triggerthat happens to men.

(28:09):
Seriously.
And that's really what happenedto us in our relationship.
Because I was like, yo, my mom hada child and went right back to work.
You don't even have to go back to work.
Ooh, you said that?

No, I get it.
You're not the only man who said that.
No,

100 percent honest.
I said that because I waslike, I watched my mom do this.
How come you can't do it?
And it was me being 26 and27 now and not understanding.
And I, and this is part of thereason why we wrote the book.
I wish someone would have saidthe vow, be on alert for this.
The same way I do my young boys.
Now, all of my friends, when their wivesget pregnant, I take them out to lunch.

(28:45):
All of my friends, I do this.
I take them out to lunches.
And first of all, lunch is on me.
I say, you don't need money.
What is, what is your cash app?
I send them a love gift.
And I tell them, I say,this is from Kadeen and I.
We want you guys to have a nicesmooth transition into adding
a third member to your family.
If you ever need anythingfinancially, let us know.

(29:07):
Part of the reason why is becausewe know the stresses that economics
can cause on a relationship.
And I know from a man to anotherman, it's a stressful time.
And the first thing I tell him, I say,you know, your wife is how many weeks?
Six, seven weeks pregnant.
Okay.
So, you're almost at the end.
You got about two more years to go.
And they're like, what?!

(29:27):
I said, I'm telling you rightnow so that you don't look at
your wife like she's crazy.
And this is the analogy I always use.
If you study or you,I read a lot of books.
If you study about Navy SEALs andthe Marine Corps, you know what?
One of the most interest, the mostintentional, but deliberately hard parts
of the training is teaching a soldierhow to survive through sleep deprivation.

(29:52):
We're talking about some of themost Skilled disciplined people in
the world have to be trained howto deal with sleep deprivation.
But then we as a society expect a momto have a baby, be sleep deprived,
go to work and still be a wife.
And God forbid she complained about it.
Right.
And this is the truth.

(30:12):
And I'm, I'm not trying to standup here like I know everything.
I'm 38.
I have four kids.
I know now.
You're one child?
I was the lunatic that everybody hates.
Why are we not having sex?
Why are you holding out?
The baby's two months already.
What is going on?
Why don't you just get back in the gym?
Because you said you wanted to be on TV.
I had no clue.

(30:34):
And it's a grace from her and it's a mehaving grace for her for us to get through
that and we want to tell those storiesso people don't feel like they're the
only ones going through it because wewent through it and now we're here still.

That's why we share.
Uh, that reminds me.
Um, who do y'all go to.
Who holds you accountable orwho do you go to for advice?
Who, I don't know, who's yoursounding board in the relationship
or is it just between you?
Each other.
It's between us.

We literally don't have a sounding board.
And it's funny because when westarted the podcast, we realized that
even speaking aloud certain things.
Was like therapy for us.
I was like, man, I didn't evenknow you felt that way about this
or even just having an overarchingtopic that we were talking about and
seeing the different perspectives.
We felt like we were learningso much about each other and
even the book writing process.

(31:22):
I want to give a special shout outto Leah Lakins down front here.
Such a treat.
She, she was our writer for the book.
Yes.
So everyone give a roundof applause to Leah.
Stand up Leah.
And we went through.
Yeah.

(31:43):
So we had a checklist andcriteria real quick before what
our writer was going to be.
And of course she had to be asister or he had to be a brother.
We wanted that first and foremost,but we went through a very extensive
interview process and Leah justcame out on top all the time.
So we thank you so much for workingwith us and making this project
super seamless and super easy.
So we thank you again for that.

(32:04):
But through the bookwriting process, even that.
Was like a form of therapy for usbecause we were like, man, I didn't
know that's how you felt in that moment.
And we like to say that marriage,at least for us, we've discovered is
literally one never ending conversation.
And the minute the conversationpauses or doesn't happen.

(32:25):
That's a problem.

What was the most difficult part of the book to write?
Like the chapter or the, youknow, few paragraphs that it,
that was tough to revisit.
Why y'all laughing?
Don't be, don't

be looking at my facial expressions.
I'm trying to work onmy facial expressions.
I'll, I'll wear my emotions.
You're an actor.
We know that we know

that your emotions are right there.
Um, so for me, it was, Decidingto share about an unplanned
pregnancy that we had in college.
So, um, it was particularly difficult forme because it was something that I had
buried for years and every time I come

on, baby, talk about it.

So it's something that I had buried for years.
And it was mainly because offear of, of a shame and ridicule.
I'm feeling like I was beingirresponsible in the moment.
I'm feeling like my family and myparents would be like, I told you so.
Um, so it was something that's Valand I, again, when you ask about

(33:33):
outside influences or who wasa sounding board or who was the
support system, there was none.
I felt, um, and I could be wrong.
I could have maybe expressed this tofamily members and they might have
leaned in to be of help and support.
But in that moment, I just felt like.
I only had him and I decided to shareit for several reasons, but mainly

(33:53):
because I wanted to be able to finda woman or find a girl because we
do have a lot of younger people whofollow us and our story and aspire to
be married and be in a relationship.
But for someone who may struggle with thisparticular situation, um, I just wanted
them to find comfort in knowing that theyweren't alone because that's how I felt
in the moment that it's going to be okay.

(34:15):
That there's a futureafter something like that.
Um, but it also made me emotional inthat moment because writing about it, the
tears flowed sending voice notes to Leah,the tears flowed, um, doing the audio
session with deval, because at this point.
I have read his portion of thebook, because what you'll see if
you haven't read the book yet isthat we tell different stories,

(34:36):
but it's Kadeem and Davao'sperspective, so we go back and forth.
And that made sense because wewanted people to get a perspective
of how we both felt in thatmoment with that particular story.
And even hearing him speak thesewords aloud was almost like
a confessional, I felt like.
And it just made me feel so much moreblessed in this moment, a, because I
was able to heal from this, but alsoit made me think, wow, I have such an

(35:02):
amazing partner who even at 19 yearsold or 20 years old when it happened.
Was really putting me first, likehe really thought about and he had
compassion for my situation, eventhough he wasn't the one necessarily
dealing with it in that moment.
But he was the one that just really,really was thinking about how, how
are we going to get through this?

(35:22):
And people ask, why isthe title We Over Me?
There's so many moments in ourrelationship when we may have hit
a rough patch or we might havestumbled or we might have made a
choice that wasn't the best choice,but it was never just, just me.
And I love him for that.

(35:43):
And I really just hope that my storyis something that people can relate to.
Um, of course I fear that sharing it wouldbring some sort of fear or judgment or
people would no longer support me or us.

But

I felt like if people genuinely understood us in that light and
could have empathy for us, then maybe.
Whoever decided to stay and support,we're really genuinely meant to
be here, and I appreciate that.

Thank you for sharing that.
Uh, Deval, I see you getting emotional.
Wise up.
We love you!
Love

y'all back.
Not the boogers.
Oh my God.
Guys.
I'm going to put it on eBay like Lizzo didn't have panties.
Y'all heard about that?
Girl!
I said, did you dry clean them first?
My eBay was like, girl, this is eBay.
We don't, we

don't do that here.
So

that was my difficult part in the book.
And it took a while for me to decide ifthat was something that I wanted to share.
But I just felt like with theclimate that we're in, with, uh,
women being under attack, blackwomen being under attack, um, um.
You know, it was just necessary.
The women's bodies be under attack.
I felt like it was justnecessary to share that.
Um, so I hope that you guys, when youread that portion of it, um, I guess

(37:16):
not that you enjoy it, but you canunderstand where we were at that time.
Um, you know,

yeah, I would have to agree.
First of all, I love you.
I love you.
Um,

I didn't mean to make you cry too.

Uh, shit.
I can't, um,

I'm sorry.
It wasn't supposed tobe that kind of night.
It was supposed to be real light.

I want, I want to say that when people ask me all the time,
like, how could you, how can, howcan we get what you and Kadeem have?
Right.
I never find the words.
Because I don't like this is ordained.
I don't I never thoughtI was going to love

(37:58):
Like I I am probably like the mostsuper macho man that I try to be from
Brooklyn, but when it comes to her There'sno, like, that's all out the window.
The whole vibrato is all out the window.
Like, this is my homie, my dog.
Like I would kill for her.
I would die for her.
Like, and

don't die for me.
Cause we dying together.
All right.
It's giving notebook, it'sgiving notebook vibes here.

Girl, first of all, she made me watch the notebook in college.
I cried like a baby.
I was like, they both diedtogether holding hands.
Oh my God.
Watch it, right?
I gotta go to practice.
But um, I'll tell you one thing.
I, I, I realized howpowerful my wife is, right?
Because I grew up a verystrict Southern Baptist.

(38:48):
And when you go through situationslike that, you always feel
like you're failing everybody.
I failed everybody.
I can't tell nobody.
I can't do this.
Now.
I told my pops because my pops is my dog.
Like, of course I had to, you know,go through the process with her.
And he was just like, you bettermake sure that Kadeen is okay.
I didn't tell any of the womenin my family because I was just

(39:09):
like, I don't want to be judged.
But then when the book wascoming out, I said, yo, I got to
speak truthfully to my family.
I don't want them tofind out when reading.
And I was speaking tomembers of my family.
I don't want to say who, cause Idon't want to share their business.
And I told them what happenedand they put their hands on me
and said, baby, I've been there.
And for the first time as a grown man,I looked at the women who I never wanted

(39:34):
to fail, never wanted to disappointand be like, May you human and you
see me, you know what I'm saying?
Like you see me.
So I just wanted to say like you are sopowerful for choosing to share that story
because now there's so many women thatare going to be seen and they're going
to feel like, wow, like I'm not alone.
I'm not a monster.
And I just want to giveyou your flowers now

(39:56):
because
as difficult as it was for me to be there.
Cause we always say our pregnancy,we don't ever say her pregnancies,
our pregnancy, as difficult.
It was for me.
To read and write.
I know it had to be 10times as hard for you, but

I don't want to take up y'all.
I know y'all had a ton of questions.
Thank you so much for sharingthat by the way, guys.
I, I know you've heard from folksI'm sure who can relate to that,
but there are so many otherswho don't feel comfortable yet.
Right.
Speaking up publicly who I'm sureeven in this room are quietly
nodding their head and feeling seen.
So there's power in sharingyour, your stories with that.

(40:36):
I don't want to lose track of time herebecause I know y'all got to get to bed.
No, I'm good.
See, now I'm staying onthe news in the morning.
Tomorrow I'm stumbling reading.
Y'all know why.
Um, so let's open it up to questions,but we do have some, some rules that
we want to, um, set for the Q and a

let's give it up for Kadeena DeVille again,
really quickly with the questions.
Like I said, Christine is on this side.
Raise your hand again.
And I'm Ramonda.
I'll be on this side.
So if you have a question, please comedown to any, um, microphone on this side.
We'll probably have time formaybe two and two on each side.

(41:20):
We'll see.
We'll play it by ear.
Um, but please questions, not comments,not you trying to be an extra on Tyler
Perry's movie, not trying to work ontheir social media, be with, you know,
just a question about the book or aboutmarriage, please just in honor of time.
So come on down on either sideand we'll open up for questions.

(41:46):
And we'll alternate.
I'll go first and then we'llpass the second one to Christine.
All right.
Tell us your name and your question.

Audience Member (41:54):
Hello, my name is Brooke and my question is you mentioned
that you were raised like Baptist.
So what role does faith play inyour counter intuitive approach
to your marriage and relationship?

Oh, that actually, that's a great question, Brooke.
Um, Kadeem grew up Seventh day Adventistand I grew up Baptist, Southern Baptist.
So for us, faith is important becausewe both feel like God is going to
reveal himself to you in his own way.
And when we talk about thecounterintuitive approach, so many
people are always looking outward foranswers about their relationship, right?

(42:27):
We look inward and we look to God, right?
Um, we believe in a more traditional,traditional marriage where, I'm
more of a servant leader and theysay she's submissive, but she
follows me because I follow God.
And if God tells me,

(42:51):
but here's, here's,here's the truth though.
If God tells me that Ihave to follow my wife,

that's all right too.

That's part of it.
So faith, faith is hugein our relationship.
We will be passing the collectionplate for the building renovation fund.

Put your gloves on girl.
Put your gloves on.
for your question, Brooke.
Yes.

My name is Shia.
I love you guys.
Um, my question is, what do youdo when one of you guys are not as
motivated as the other and y'all bothare collectively working on the goal
and you know, maybe the thing could bedoing more devout could be doing more.
What do you do instead oflike getting frustrated, like,
why are you not doing it?
What do you do?
How do you do that in a healthy manner?
Child, we don't sometimes.

(43:45):
She about to kill me right now.
Oh

God.
Listen sis, this guyhere has no off button.
Okay.
No off button.
That's see, look, she'spointing at her man too.
No off button.
And I respect it though, because why?
It's easy.
It's easy to be a followerbecause I'm like, man, my man's
going to get it done, right?
His work ethic is unlikeanyone I've ever seen in life.

(44:08):
And he doesn't, and it'sparticularly difficult because we
work together on so many things.
So I'm like, baby, sometimes I just wantmy man, like, I just want my boyfriend.
I don't want to vow the business partner.
I don't want to vow the co host.
I don't want to vow the author.
I want my man.
So what it requires for usto do is really find ways.
And I'm normally deliberate about saying,we're going to turn the phone off.

(44:30):
You're going to haveto put the phone down.
I tend to be the one that'snot as motivated half the
time because I need my break.
Like I'm no longer on this team.
No sleep waves.
I need my sleep.
I need my sleep.
I need my rest.
And I'm going to take that.
So in order to motivate each other.
I usually feel like I don't want tolet him down, so sometimes I'll try to
push the envelope and work overdrive,but it never works out well for me.

(44:54):
So, we've learned that our processesare different, and because our
processes are different, we haveto respect each other's process.
So, even in this book writing here,Leo's probably like, we can eat it.
I'm changing diapers and breastfeeding.
I'm doing a ton of things at the sametime, because usually I try to what
alleviate things off of deval's plate.
So he can be his best self.

(45:14):
Right.
And in doing that though, things falterand I look like the weakest link.
And sometimes we have moments likethat, but deval has learned to give
me a lot of grace in the moment.
And he does learn how to turnthings off and he's learned better
ways to motivate me other than.
Yelling or putting me down.
So I don't feel inadequate.
Yeah, we've been

there.
Yeah.
Are you the one who works?

I'm the motivator.
I don't have no stop button.
So I could tell

by the way you asked the question.
It was when you grabbed the mic and youwere just like, so, so I just want to know
when your partner is just going to get

his black ass up.
Come here.
I could tell.
I could tell when you

started.
I was sweating looking.
I started sweating.
Sweating looking at you.
'cause I'm like, she's the one,

she's the one, have these goals.
And if he's not on it asme, I'm like, whatcha doing?
You got a, you said we getting old?
I said, no.
Oh, we need a home.
Oh, we need a home.
You got a I need balance, baby.
So this

is, this is what I'll say, right?
Do you have faith in your own discernmentto pick a partner that's going to be
there for you when you need you the most?
Okay.
So if, if you have the faith in your owndiscernment, you have to learn to be like,
my partner has his own process, right?
This is mature devout.

(46:35):
Now I'll tell you astory about why it was.
I wasn't a while back, but I'velearned to say, you know what, you
don't want to do the chapters thatLeah asked us to do six months ago.
You can do that on your own time.
I'm going to do extra chapters sothat when, so that's what it is.
If you know it won't killyou to do more, do more.

(46:58):
Marriage is not going to be 50 50.
Sometimes it's going to be 90

10.

It's just going to be like because I'll tell
you what, when she was pregnant.
It was 95 percent hercarrying them babies.
That was

100 percent me carrying them babies.
What you mean?

I held the hand.
I had my 5%.
But you know what I'm saying?
When the table will turn at some point,you're going to have to understand when
he's pushing you for certain reasons.
And the reason why I need you tounderstand how hard that is for him is
because I used to I was bad with thisbecause I grew up with my parents were
the type of parents who were just likeeverything you do is not good enough.

(47:37):
I could get 95 on a test.
It's like, what are the five points?
I got kicked off the basketball team bymy mom because My GPA dropped below 90.
I had a teacher who gave mea 75 For missing homework
that I did, he misplaced Mr.
Fass, his stupid ass.
I'll never forget, 7th grade,Andrews Huddy Junior High School,

(47:58):
I missed 7th grade basketball.
Mr.
Fass gave me a 75 becausehe misplaced my homework.
My mother said, I don'tcare if it was misplaced.
place.
You should have gave that man his stuffin his hand so you can have your 90
average and you not playing basketball.
That was my mentality.
But that's also what made me great.
I had coaches who motivated,called me every curse word in
the book and it made me great.

(48:20):
So in my mind, when you communicateto people the way you like
being communicated to, you thinkit's going to make them great.
It didn't work.
I never, I'll never forget.
This is a chapter in a bookyou'll hear, you'll read about,
but Kadeem came to the gym.
She said she wanted to be in the bestshape of her life going into 2016, right?
She had just come off turning 30 in 2015.

(48:43):
She's like, baby, I'm goingto best shape of my life.
We decided that we weregoing to have another child.
So I said, for your own health, because wealmost lost Kadeem after having Jackson,
you have to be in the best shape of yourlife so we can get through this pregnancy
We were in there first part of the year.
She's not working out.
Talking to people justprocrastinate doing, you know,

she was your business.
I was schmoozing I was itwas about the retention

for me, right customer satisfaction talking to people.
She did three hours talkingto people I'm ready to go now.
It's nine o'clock.
She goes.
Oh, you ready to leave?
I was just about to start workingout So this is where the and this
i'ma be very honest the old messedup deval was You full of shit, bro.
That's what I said.
Yeah, you full of shit, bro.
Shit, what you mean?
I said you was here forthree hours bullshitting.

(49:28):
And I'm up here working.
I worked 18 hours a day.
This was during a time where I felt likeI was in my right to speak like this.
I had told her she didn'thave to work full time.
She could work when she wanted to work.
I was working 18 hours aday, seven days a week.
I was exhausted.
I said, you full of shit.
You said you was going tocome in here at seven o'clock.
This is now.
Passed 10 o'clock andyou still ain't work out.
I think we should get a divorce, right?

(49:50):
And she's just like, what youmean you should get a divorce?
I said, we can't agree on anything.
We argue about finances.
We argue about food.
We argue about sex and you fucking lazy.
This is what I said.
I'm not gonna lie to you.
You know what she said to me?
I'm not fucking lazy, DeVal.
It gets better.
I'm fucking pregnant.

(50:14):
I go, well, why don't you leave

with that?
Not quite the way I expected to announcethis pregnancy for our second son.

But in that moment I realized, like, shit.

Surprise.

I wasn't present enough to realize that my wife was actually
going through something because I was sofocused on accomplishing the goals that
I thought we should be accomplishing.
Ebbs and flows.
And it was messed up.
I'm not gonna lie, it would have felt real

good saying that cause like to, it sure did.
It was like,

drive, smite, hole at, not what you got to say.

And in all honesty, that moment is what changed our marriage.
Because after that is when I decided,you know what, from no longer will I
try to be your coach and your motivator.
I'm going to be your partner.
I'm going to be here for what youneed and I'm going to be present
and whatever you need, I got you.
Once I did that, I noticed thatshe changed and she had me and I
said, wait a minute, why don't Ido this when she's not pregnant?

(51:13):
And then Cairo came.
And then shortly afterthat, Kaz came, right?

Shortly after that, for real, six months later,
to be exact, because he wasjust delivering on everything.
I was like, well, I guessI'm a delivery again.

She was delivering at that point.
So, um, giving her grace and allowingyour partner to develop their own process
is how you get through those times.

But don't forget to just be friends too in the process.
Yes.
Yes.
No, you're welcome.
Next question over here.
Sorry, that was a long one.
That's all right.

In those moments of arguing and like you're sitting there.
You want to say something, but you holdingit back, you know, you holding it back.
And so she's sitting there waitingfor, yeah, that's my wife up there.
That's my wife up there.
You see him look back

cause he nervous.
He's like, let me make sure she ain'tgoing to slap me upside my head.

And she's sittin there waitin on a answer.
And everything that you wannasay, you know it's gonna go up.
What is your strategy in that moment?

De'Ville gonna go up.

Quick.

That is not true.
That is not true.
If I want to have sex later,

That's in the dining factory.
We not going

out.
If I'm in a place where we alreadyhad sex in the day, let me tell
you how I feel about this, Kadid.
No, in all honesty, we havedeveloped a new rule in our house.
We deal with stuff openly,honestly, and in real time.
There's no more holding it back.
Let me know.
And then we tell each other, Hey, andwe, we had a, we was having a little

(52:56):
disagreement yesterday in the car.
She was all about ourfriends that work with us.
And there's the car.
And I said, listen, baby.
Life is too short.
I don't want to argue with you.
We could get into an accident rightnow on this highway and never see
us, ourselves, or these kids again.
Tell me what's the matterso we can get over it.
Period.
Like, I don't care what it is.
Tell me what it is.

(53:16):
We discussed it.
And before you know it, we, thisis us in the car after that.

Look at Janelle.
Janelle's like.

But, but 20s, Kadeen and Davao would have been like this.

We wouldn't have made it here today.
We wouldn't.
Jenelle would be here by herself.

Denora would've been like, Denora would've been
like, Guys, you have to come out.
These people paid for y'all to do this.
Khadim would've been like,

I ain't going out there to talk about black love.
Fuck black love.
That's bad.
That's bad.
Y'all think, y'all think That actually,that actually really happened, y'all.
Oh my God.
So here we are, sixmonths after we have Kyro.
Kyro is six months old, right?
Black Love.
Who watched the Black Love series?
Shout out to Tommy and Cody Own.
So we were about to tape Black Love.

(54:00):
Um, at this point, don'tknow I'm pregnant with Cass.
I'm already feeling some kind of wayand I don't know what it is exactly,
but I'm pumping before she comes in.
I'm trying to get dressed.
The deval's like, they're downstairs.
You don't got no pants on.
Put your pants on.

I'm like, yo, you gotta hurry up.
Like, they about to come upstairs.
And she's like, you're notgoing to be rushing me.
You're not going to be rushing me.
I'm like, yo, what's with the hostility?
Like, I just, I'm just tryingto tell you, people are coming
in the house and this and that.
She's like, you know what?
I'm trying to I never wantedto do this shit anyway.
Facts.
So, y'all think my mouth is crazy, right?
She, Jamaican andVincentian from Brooklyn.
Her mouth is crazy.
Right?

(54:34):
So she's like, I'm notdoing this shit no more.
I said, Kadeem, these people flew allthe way from LA to come interview us.
Her words verbatim is like, I don'tcare about black love, fuck black love.
I'm like, Kadeem, you can, so nowwe in, we, I got her pants, right?
I'm trying to pull her pants up.

And then I'm post baby, six months, so nothing fits.
Nothing looks good.
I'm supposed to be on camera.
My hair ain't right.
But this is the best

part though, right?
We are guys on the door,but right now this is us.
So that's also have your arguments,but have the unified front so other
people don't be in your argumentsand in your business, speak about

(55:20):
it in real time and keep it there.
Keep it there.
But don't let other people know.
That's how we get through it.

Sounds like she's been trying to tell you
this for a while, brother.
Yeah.
All right.
Maybe you don't listen,

bro.
Once you have it, it feels so much better.
Yeah.
You know, but, but also haveit gently don't, don't have it.
Like how I know mensometimes want to have it.
Because I'm that guy, learn to haveit gently and use gentle words.
Nice, trust me.
There you go.
Use gentle.
Look, there you go, look.
Look, there you go.
She's like, come on back.
She got the hands readyfor you, my brother.

Hi.
Alright, we're good.
I'm Jontay, and my question, that actuallyled me into my question, is how do you
all deal with, um, having those toughconversations in front of your kids?
So you were just talking about, you know,how you grew up and you didn't see your
parents and stuff, but like, how do y'allhave disagreements and stuff with, in

(56:17):
front of your kids without scaring them?

We took a while to get there.
We were just talking about how wefeel like we broke Jackson, our
oldest, we probably broke him somany times within our relationship
because we were growing together.
We were just talking about it onthe car ride and like our oldest.
Or typically the oldest goes throughgrowing with you, you know, as a person.

(56:42):
So not only is it my growing as anindividual, I'm trying to grow within
this marriage and then trying toalso raise a child in the process.
And Jackson definitely early onher disagreements between Deval
and I, and just would be like,Are you still mad at daddy?
Are you still mad at mommy?
And then he would internalize it too.
And that's when we realizedit was a problem because we
had, uh, we were on, we had,

we spoke, we did talk about this on

the radio show, the radio

show.

Yeah.
So we were on the Frankski show inGeorgia, um, uh, last week I think it was.
And we talked about thestory with a stroller, right?
Who heard the stroller story before?
I don't know if anyone

knows the stroller story.
Long story short, a lotof people have questions.
We argued about a stroller.
We were screaming at each other,cursing at each other, because
we were young, 20 years old.
And I said, you know what, Jackson'sright there getting ready for school.
And I'm like, you know,I'm not going to school.
I'm not taking him to school.
We have to discuss this before I leave.
Jackson goes, so I can't go to schoolbecause y'all having an argument?

(57:36):
Literally said that.
He was like

four or five.
Not the kid being the mature one.
Yes.
Literally.
I like school though.

So I say, come on.
Let's go to school.
I take him to school.
We typically listen to theBreakfast Club every morning.
This morning, I was just over it.
So I turned the radio off.
We have our handshake.
We do.
I get to school and I drop himoff and he jumps out of the car.
He's like, Daddy, our handshake.
I said, Jackson, go to school.
You're already late.
Right?
So now I've projected everythingwe've gone through on him.
So he goes in school and we go back home.

(58:07):
We reconcile, we find, you know,had our little canoe session.
We good now.
Right?
So now I'm skipping to go get my son.
Cause I'm happy every day after school.
Third grade, I'll never forget, Jacksonwould open that door, see me, and
full speed sprint and jump in my arms.
This day, all the kidscome out, Jackson is last.
And he walks, like he just walks.

(58:28):
And I'm like, yo, buddy,what's the matter?
He goes, are you still mad at me?
And I was like

Heartbroken.
Deval,

you like the worst person in the world right now, bro.

And I let him know, too.
I was like, you really are.
Because I'm like

She did, she did do that.
She ain't want to take noblame, no accountability.
I had to really I sent my son to schooland he probably wasn't able to focus
on being the best version of his selfbecause he was concerned that his dad
is mad at him when he did nothing wrong.
That made us realizethat we can't do that.
Like
we cannot do that no matter what we're going through, we have

(59:02):
to find a gentle place to speak to ourkids, even when we're in our workspace.
So we don't have drag, wedon't argue like that anymore.
We have conversations.
If I have an issue, we talk about it.
We don't scream at each other.
We don't degrade or curse at each other.
We have grown people conversations andwe have them in front of our children.
And then they'll sit there and they'llbe like, what y'all talking about?

(59:23):
And we had a disagreementand this and this and that.
And I want them to see how you'resupposed to speak to a woman.
Yes.
So that when they havewives and girlfriends,
they can say, well, my dad andmy mom used to speak like this.
So I'm not going toscream and argue with you.
And

one thing big with them with us is that we teach them how to
control their emotions and how to expresshow they feel and how to communicate.
So we have to be the example of thatif we're requiring that from them.

Yeah.
Next question right here.
Tell us your name.

Hello, my name's Brittany.
Nice to meet you guys.
What's up?
Meet Brittany.
I love you guys.
Big thank you.
Thank you for this opportunity.
So I have a two part question for you bothto kind of answer along the same lines.
I've been single dating, um, and Iwanted to know basically, so Deval, your
question is, you all mentioned earlierin the conversation in regards to being
unequally yoked and the imbalance.

(01:00:12):
I get the unequally yoked from a spiritualperspective and how that can flow into
a relationship as well as the imbalance.
But in a relationship, because you're twototally different people, backgrounds, et
cetera, et cetera, there's always goingto be an imbalance somewhere as a man
being comfortable with pursuing that andhaving the marriage, I guess, if you will,
of, uh, proposing to someone and knowingthat what is it that you're looking for?

(01:00:34):
Is it more so the foundational purposes,the ambition drive, that sort of thing
that would make a man comfortable, um,with that, knowing that eventually you
can get there because of course you build.
And then Kadeen, um, you're beautiful.
Love you.
Um, You mentioned also in the senseof, but you mentioned in the sense of

(01:00:56):
being girlfriend doing wifely duties,um, that is something that's kind
of like a stigma in today's society.
Um, but I have the opinion of your datingand what you're doing as your dating
is going to transfer into marriage.
So where do you find the fineline between girlfriend duties?
And actually getting the ring and thenupping it, upping the auntie, if you
will, or is it what I'm doing as agirlfriend, you're going to get as a wife.

Khadeen Ellis (01:01:18):
You want to answer first or?

Devale Ellis (01:01:19):
Um, yeah, it's, it's funny.
This is another conversationwe talked about the team that I
work with is predominantly womenand we had this conversation.
What I try to tell people who aredating is be exactly who you want
to be for the rest of your life.
And if you are that person, the person whowants that person will adore you for it.
If you go up there with a representative.

(01:01:40):
And the person falls in lovewith the representative and
then you change, that's on you.
Don't hold back who you are because you'reafraid someone may take who you are.
You'll never find love that way.
And yes, being vulnerable is scary.
But let's be honest, being therepresentative is even scarier.
Because now you're meeting someonewho, if you're a representative
and they're a representative,you don't know who they are.

(01:02:00):
And you're trying to build a lifewith someone who you don't know while
being someone who you really aren't.
Be
who you are and let the person love you the way

Audience Member (01:02:08):
you

Good.
So to answer your question about thewifely duties and girlfriend, I always
existed in a space well early on,because again, I didn't date several
different men prior to the vow.
Maybe he had two little highschool things running around with.
But, um, for me, I always felt likeI existed in a space of two things.
One, I saw how my mother, my grandmother,the women around me took care of.

(01:02:37):
Their spouse.
So for me, it was a leadby example kind of a thing.
So I saw my grandmother worked the nightshift as a CNA at the hospital, come home,
cook a meal for my grandfather, make surethat it was on the stove and his portion
was set aside and his plate was made.
He would come in from the door.
She'd be asleep, taking anap, but he came in from work.
She'd get up.
Even if she was dog tired, she would sethis plate, warm his food up, sit with him

(01:03:00):
while he ate dinner to have chit chat.
And then, you know, she'd go onher merry way back to sleep so
she can get up to go to work.
I saw that.
So I felt like that wasjust natural, right?
That catering to factor.
I just so happened to meet somebodywho I felt like was deserving
of that as well, too, right?
Because it was reciprocal.
I also saw how he was a gentleman.

(01:03:21):
I saw how he was taking care of me.
I saw how he was making an To be theperson that I wanted to cater to.
And I just naturally existed in a spaceof moving from my heart and emotion.
So it was easy for me to kindof lean into that because I felt
like he was deserving of that.
So I feel like women today, ifyou're dating, be who you are.
Again, that ties into the same, youknow, answer that devout gave you and

(01:03:44):
whoever is going to fall in love withyou, whoever's going to continue to
court, you will love you for that reason.
Um, and if you feel like someone isnot appreciating that, you know, Then
you may want to hold back or thatmay just not be the person for you.

Jeannette Reyes (01:03:56):
I want to make sure she answers your, your question.
Are you, are you sayingdoing that as a girlfriend?
Yes.
Is that in your mind?
Okay.
I did that as a girlfriend.
And so I think some people wonderif I do this as a girlfriend, what
incentive does he have to marry me?
If I'm not saving anything for marriage.
So you see, I

gave

him a ultimatum,

like, listen, this ain't going to happen forever.

She, she definitely gave me an ultimatum, but it's
also your own discernment, right?
When people show you who theyare, believe them the first time.

Yeah.

Right.
Don't go into yourself and say, I'm goingto make this man be who I want him to be.
That's on you.
That's not on him.
If you're, if you're showing him wifelyqualities, he's not respecting it.
He doesn't appreciate it.
It is okay for you to say, listen, man.
This does not work for me and I thinkit'll be better if the two of us go our
separate ways rather than saying I'm goingto spend the next five years training

(01:04:49):
him to be the husband I want him to be.
Exactly.
And

you have to be intentional, sorry.

No, no, you have to be intentional because most of the time,
and this isn't a woman thing because Ihave homies the same thing, but I did
all this stuff for this girl and shejust went away and I said, bro, She's
been showing you since y'all were datingthat she never wanted to be a wife.
You kept spending money, you kept takingher on trips, you kept buying her things.
Then she found somebodyelse with more money.
And they did that and she left you.
That's not on her, that's on you, bro.

(01:05:14):
We as people have to start realizingthat people have the right to do
what they want to do in their lives.
And when they show you whatthey want to do, believe them.
Don't try to change them.

Yep, you have to be upfront.
Like, are you going to say to thisperson, Hey, I aspire to be married.
So if we're entering into thiscourtship and I want to be girlfriend
caring to you and doing all of thisstuff, is it with the intention
of us one day getting married?
When I said earlier, do youaspire to marriage or do you not?
That's an important conversation Ithink that should be had early on.

Now, say that again because real talk, Kay did everything.
When I read all of these blogs aboutwhat women aren't supposed to do, Kay
literally did all of the wrong things.
Kay told me she loved me in two weeks.
I didn't know what to say.
I said, thank you.
I was trying to be polite.
I wasn't trying to be rude.
Kay acted like my wifefrom the very beginning.

(01:06:02):
Kay gave me an ultimatum.
Kay told me what her timeline was.
And I started, I was deliberate.
She was deliberate about what she wantedand it was up to me to make the choice.
So it's the whole idea of playing a gameto get what you want to me doesn't work

real quick though.
Cause some, some guys havesaid, where's the chase?
You're giving it all tome and there's no mystery.
I know I have you.
I want the chase.
Do you agree that men wantthat and that takes that away?

I agree.
I will say this.
A man who's looking to just chasewomen are going to chase women.
A man who is looking to be ahusband is going to find a wife.
You know, I
honestly, no, I honestly feel this.
You as women, and I hate tryingto mansplain, but I will say this.

(01:06:50):
I watch a lot of my young female friendsand my co stars that I work with.
They say, DeVal, I'm looking for this guyand he got to have this and he doesn't.
I said, you're chasing aguy who's chasing women.
Why are you chasing a guywho's chasing a woman?
Why don't you?
Chase a guy who's chasing apurpose, part of that purpose.
If it's being a husband, he maystop and say, wait, this is my wife.
But if he's chasing women, he'salways going to chase women.

(01:07:12):
It don't matter if you playa game, it don't matter.
If you show him up front that you want tobe a wife, he's just going to chase women.
And he has, that's his prerogative.
Because the city girls beenup the last four years.
If I, you know what I'm saying?
Cause there's women outthere who are chasing men.
And I tell my boys the same thing,stop being upset at her because she's
going for what she wants in her life.
Let them let that group of people dowhat that group of people want to do.

(01:07:35):
Find your group.

Ramunda Young (01:07:39):
Okay.
In the essence, uh, interest of time,we're going to do one more question
from that end, and we'll take a coupleof minutes to transition and we'll
do Q up Q and a, we'll do photos.
We're going to do row by row under mydirection, but we'll make sure everybody
gets a chance, but last question, right

into listening to letters.
I'm sorry, we didn't get to y'all.
We'll talk about on the podcast.

Hi, I'm Keon and what's up Keon?
What's going on, bruh?
Newly married and congratulations

for the newlyweds how long now?

Shout out to my wife.
Best thing that ever happened to me.

I've been married now a couple months,

five months,

five months.
What's up?

In that it's been a beautiful journey.
So much joy.
but it's been like a constantconversation with my friends,
particularly my guy friends aroundmarriage seems cool, but it's like,
I want to get myself together first.
So
I want
to make sure everything's in order.
And it seems like that's likea cop out in a sense, but also,
you know, I want to respect them.

(01:08:41):
How do I encourage them?
Because Don't, don't,

don't, don't, don't encourage anybody to get married.
You want to know why?
If they get married off theirencouragement and it gets
messed up, they're going tobe like, you fucked me up.
Let them find out on their own time.
You lied.
But I know why you asked the question.
You asked the question because yourwife doesn't want you to hang out with
your friends if they're all single.
Right?

Is that the truth?

Nah, she cool.

She said no.
Even,

even to what you just alluded to in regards to like
men who are chasing to be a husband.
Yeah.
But how do we encourage that more?
Because there's beauty in black love,there's beauty in unity, even the
essence of what y'all talk about.
It's like we owe me the journey.
I think sometimes they try to likealleviate the journey or try to like
run away from the journey because theywant to make sure everything's together.
Like what you're supposed to do.

I would say this, be an example.
You don't have to say anything.
Watch them see how you treat your wife.
So many of my singleboys come over, right?
And this is the truth.
Cadeen will be in her bathing,her freaking, what is it you wear?
The robe.
Hair be crazy.
I'm out with Jackson at thebasketball practice, right?
I'll come in the house.
She'll go in the back, put on hershorts, the shorts she know I like.

(01:09:49):
She'll make sure I'm eating.
She'll, you know, and they'll be like, yo,your wife really be taking care of you.
And I'm like, yeah, yeah.
And then they'll see how Ispoil her, her ways and stuff.
And they're like, yo, thisis actually pretty cool, bro.
And I don't have to say, I don'thave to beat it over their heads,
like marriage, marriage, marriage.
Just come over, come overand watch me with my kids.
Oh,

that's why you have been coming over

all the time?

Such and such is coming over for dinner.
Make some dinner, make some dinner.
I

do, I do do that.
Yeah.
In part because I hear so many of myfriends say there ain't no good women
out there or women don't know how toact and then I just, rather than trying
to talk them through it, I just say,well, just come over, just come over.
And then they watch Kadena and they'rejust like, how'd you get her to do that?
And I'm like, I don't gether to do anything I do for

(01:10:35):
her and she reciprocates.
So as long as you guys don't mindbeing the example, don't talk to them.
Cause the more you talk to them,you know what they're going to do.
Wow.
No, just let them watch, bro.
And if y'all have a good loving marriage,that's all the example they'll need.

I will say, if you're saying marriage is great, this is amazing.
I would start like, is it really?
Are you trying to get me into something?
There's so much joy.
Right, right, right.
Wiping away with a tear.
This is just amazing.
I think they're, they're watching you.
Their friends are watching you andthey can, like them, if you radiate

(01:11:11):
joy and happiness, they see it.

But you also said they're also getting themselves together too,
and that's a big portion of it too.
I think a lot of men, and you've hadthat experience with even the young
men that you mentor and stuff, youknow, they are like, man, I really
want to be able to date this girl,but I'm trying to get myself in order.
Right.
I'm trying to get my finances in order.
I'm trying to get my career established.
So they may be going through theirown process and their own journeys.
Show them how it goes, youknow, give them some time.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.
Thank you.
All right.

Ramunda Young (01:11:38):
All right.
Please help me give itup for Kadeem and Davao.
Thank you so

much.
Always so much love in DC.
Who had a book?
Let me see y'all books.
Yes.
Yes, sir.
Thank you all so, so much.
We heard we're on track and we'regoing to prey on this and manifest
it to be a New York Times bestseller.

Yes.

Amen.
Amen.
Thank you for getting those hard copies.
We appreciate you.
There's always love in DC.
Who's come to a live podcast show?
I love it.
I love it.
We love, we're definitely

coming back.
We're definitely coming back.
He said, when she's going to be waitingoutside, you said you was coming back.
I need dates.

Let's give it up for them one more time and give it up for
Jeanette y'all, amazing moderator.
Discover
a world

Derrick Young (01:12:36):
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Join us as we delve into iconic worksand hidden gems, discussing their power
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Get ready for thought provokingdiscussions, author interviews,
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