June 3, 2022 • 26 mins
The phrase "Emotionally Slutty" is from a Sex and the City episode... Carrie Bradshaw says, "I revealed too much too soon. I was emotionally slutty."
In this episode, I talk about the habit some of us are in of giving it up too early... You know, sharing intimate details of our lives with people we don't know very well. I share with you why I think it is both a blessing and a curse that I wear my heart on my sleeve. I also tell a story of how this played out on a date I went on one time. Lastly, I share some tips and ideas on dos/donts from a dating coach perspective and vulnerability in communication, in general.
I believe my ability to share a lot of myself with others freely is a gift of mine. Has it also bitten me in the ass more than once? Yes! I think I'm vulnerable in conversation because I want others to be vulnerable with me. I appreciate deep, thoughtful, conversation over small talk any day.
The so-called dating experts (as well as licensed professionals in therapy/psychology) tell us that these more revealing conversations should be reserved for later in a relationship as trust is built. However, most of us bond over common ground... Often, we end up talking about our marriages, divorces, or we get triggered by something that leads to conversation about our pasts. We also talk about the common ground of dating & how challenging it can be. I've found myself swapping online dating stories many times while on a date. I think this is all very normal and we shouldn't beat ourselves up when it happens.
Next, I share intimate details of how I received a text message recently from a guy I had gone on one date with right after my separation in spring of 2020. He shared with me a backhanded compliment that he thought I was growing in my divorce journey after having revealed too much too soon about my divorces on our date. As it turns out, I thought he talked an awful lot about his divorce! Perspective is everything and we're all learning here.
Herein lies the difference from a good date and a friendship date where we bond over divorce and being single... When there's sexual attraction, chemistry, giddy feelings, we don't talk about this stuff! When there's a spark, the conversation has NOTHING to do with the negative stuff of our pasts or our exes.
I'm a "relationship person". I care about people I get to know in my personal life as well as my professional life. I recently learned some communication skills from a group called The Black Swan Group. The skills were originally developed for hostage negotiations but can be used in sales or in everyday life. I give some examples of using what they call, Labels & Mirrors, to learn more about the other person and to get the other person to open up .
At the end of the day, I still believe vulnerability begets vulnerability. Being Emotionally Slutty isn't for everyone... Not everyone appreciates deep, thought-provoking, intimate conversations. Some people judge me and think I'm inappropriate or too vulnerable. That's ok! They're just not my people.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to man shopping with Stacy, where I
share my real transparent datingand life experiences for your
amusement and inspiration.
I'm your host, Stacy weer, andyou are listening to season two,
episode two, emotionally slutty.
Hmm.
(00:22):
Hey, I get it.
Those are some strong words,strong words, indeed, but
they're not mine.
I can't, uh, I can't beresponsible for them.
They were part of a line fromone of my favorite shows, um,
sex and the city season fiveepisode eight, Carrie Bradshaw
says I revealed too much toosoon.
(00:45):
I was emotionally slutty.
Okay.
I get it in 2022.
We don't use words like anymore.
Pretty shameful, pretty vulgar,disgusting word, but it does
make a strong point in, uh, inthis frame of reference.
I hope, where am I going withthis?
(01:06):
Hmm.
Talking about that all toocommon habit.
Some of us are in of, uh, givingit up a little too early.
Hmm.
By giving it up.
I mean, sharing the details ofyour life, the stuff that should
be reserved for people who mightstick around in our lives for a
(01:29):
while.
So in this episode, I am goingto share with you what this
means to me and how it seems tobe a blessing and a curse that I
wear my heart on my sleeve.
I'm also going to tell you avery in depth story of, um, how
(01:54):
this played out on a date that Iwent on one time, and then I'm
gonna talk about this from theaspect of like dating coaches,
dos and don'ts communicationstyles.
And, uh, just this idea ofvulnerability and communication
in general.
So if you know me at all, youknow that I am totally using
(02:18):
this podcast as a tool for selfdiscovery, self-reflection
growth, all of those things.
So here we go.
about to get real mm-hmm.
So I actually, I've talked aboutmy vision board before on this
podcast, and I have to tell you,I have been really bad about
(02:39):
updating it.
And, uh, I'm pretty muchoperating off of 2020s vision
board.
And quite frankly, it's all kindof still the same stuff anyway,
but for some reason, you guys,for some reason, this
quote from Carrie Bradshaw is onmy vision board.
(02:59):
Now, is that like a warning tomyself?
Like, like, look out Stacy, um,you do this, like, watch
yourself, don't give it up tooquickly.
Or is it on my vision board?
Because it's also a gift of minethat I do share a lot of myself
(03:20):
with others.
And I do consider it to be moreof a blessing than a curse I do.
This is me.
I wear my heart on my sleeve.
I'm an open book.
Yeah.
But has it bit me in the morethan once.
Of course it has, you know, you,when you make yourself
(03:42):
vulnerable and you giveinformation freely of yourself,
um, if you're like me, I think Ido this, um, especially in one,
on one, you know, in personconversation.
I think that I am vulnerable inconversation because I want
others to be vulnerable with me.
(04:04):
I just have a huge preferencefor depth and conversation.
I can small talk with the bestof them.
I can talk about sports, thestock market politics, whatever,
um, things that are on the newsin the headlines.
But I would much rather get toknow someone what makes them
(04:26):
tick?
What motivates them, whatinspires them, why they are the
way they are.
And so put me on a date and justguess what happens?
I try real hard, like toget to the heart of things.
I enjoy it.
I even the, even the difficultconversations talking about, um,
(04:46):
stressed relationships withfamily members, exes children,
challenges, um, obstacles.
I, I enjoy that kind ofconversation.
It's meaningful.
It's impactful.
I think it, it helps me tobecome a better person when I
can hear other people'shardships too.
Not only to know that I'm notalone, but also to know, you
(05:11):
know, what they did to getthrough them.
I think it makes us all betterpeople when we can connect on a
deep level, but I'm also not anidiot.
I'm self aware.
I know what all of the experts,you know, the dating coaches,
the self best, you know, datingexperts out there.
(05:33):
Um, but also licensedtherapists, psychologists,
people with lots of educationand credentials behind their
name, all of them would tell usthat we need to reserve these
serious conversations forsomeone, you know, later,
someone who sticks aroundsomeone that we go on multiple
dates with that we try to builda relationship with.
Those are the people that wewould have these conversations
(05:54):
with.
I know I'm not a dumb.
Like I get it.
I know that that's what they sayto do.
But if you've been on some datesafter divorce, you also know
exactly what happens.
you bond over commonground.
This is human nature.
This is what we are up against.
You know, sometimes we getcaught off guard with a very
(06:18):
direct question.
Oh, you know, how, how did yourmarriage end?
How long have you been single?
When did you know that yourmarriage was over?
I mean, for real, this happens,you get a direct question and
then there you are kind ofpulled into a conversation about
your divorce or it can happenmore subtly.
And I think, you know, the moreorganic way that this can happen
(06:40):
is you get triggered bysomething, you know?
Um, oh, I just got my privatepilot's license, blah, blah,
blah.
Oh, well, I know a thingor two about aircraft to
Elaine's dad's a pilot and I satright seat for hundreds of
hours.
Yeah.
That's a real conversation I'vehad before.
Mm-hmm so you cansee, I, I know I don't even have
(07:02):
to tell you you've been there.
You've done that.
It happens.
And then sometimes we leavethese dates, like beating
ourselves up, like, oh my God, Ido it all the time.
I'll talk to my friends.
I'm like, I probably talkedabout that for too long.
That could have been takennegatively.
Oh yeah.
The mood shifted when we startedtalking about that.
It's normal.
It's part of it's part of theprocess.
(07:23):
I don't know.
I don't know that it ever ends,you know, you take out big
chunks of your life, you know,5, 10, 15, 20 years of being in
serious relationships sometimeslonger.
How do you, how do you omit allof that?
I don't know.
Redirect the conversation.
(07:45):
I suppose some people would saymake a clear statement.
You know what?
I don't wanna talk about thattonight.
Let's talk about you.
What's your favorite color?
You know what I mean?
And then the other thing that Ithink happens a lot, a lot, a
lot is we find common groundwith why we're here, we're here
(08:05):
because we met on Bumbleso then you start sharing your
online dating stories.
And usually you tell the funnyones and it's, you know, again,
something in common that you canboth talk about.
So clearly there are ways toavoid these subjects, objects
(08:26):
and to steer conversations onfirst dates, around happier,
more pleasant, fun topics.
And that's what we should befocusing on.
Right.
But let me tell you about a datewhere it didn't quite go that
way.
I'm going to kind of approachthis backwards.
And I'm going to tell it in thisdirection, because I recently
(08:51):
received a text message from aguy that I had gone on a date
with back in spring of 2020.
Now my divorce was finalmid-February of 2020.
So it's been a minute and thiswas one of the early, you know,
dates that I went on.
(09:12):
And I, when he texted me, let mejust tell you, it caught me off
guard.
I'm gonna go ahead and read toyou.
read to you what hetexted.
Okay.
Hi, Stacy.
Hope you are well, I waslistening to a couple of your
podcasts and thought back to ourdate back in spring 2020, I
think anyway, I remember comingaway from the date thinking all
(09:35):
we did was talk about your twodivorces for the two hour date.
I had to admit, I left shakingmy head.
It wasn't until I was listeningto one of your episodes that it
dawned on me that maybe that'swhat she was needing at that
time.
She was working through what weall have to work through.
At some point, this text isn'tto be taken as spiteful, rather
(09:57):
it's to say, I am happy for youbecause it sounds like you are
finding your groove.
Now this divorce processingstuff sucks, and it takes a
while, but you appear to be onyour way, congrats on all the
success.
How do you think I reacted tothat text message?
(10:21):
You know, it's kind of like whensomeone comes up to you and
says, I don't mean to sound likean, but now I don't want you to
take this wrong, but I mean, I'mnot trying to be a jerk, but
right.
That text had me feeling allsorts of defensive.
(10:44):
First.
I had to like dust off thecobwebs and think back to the
date.
And it's funny because all Icould remember was his divorce
story.
I remembered tons of details asI was all fired up.
After I read this text messageand I was trying to like sort
through my feelings and why, whyI took it the way that I did,
(11:07):
which was very negative Iwas telling my friends, I was
like, oh my God, I could tellyou everything about the end of
his marriage and how he feltabout it.
He used the word murderous.
I remember I remember the wordmurderous coming out of his
mouth.
And so my friends were like,well, maybe he's just trying to
be nice.
And until you congratulations,I'm like, no, that's not how I
(11:29):
take it.
Not at all.
Maybe I'm wrong, not how I tookit.
So, funny thing, I had written achapter about him.
in my book.
That's almost done man.
Shopping with Stacy.
Yep.
He has a whole chapter based onone short date.
(11:50):
And it's funny.
It's really funny how much Icaptured because I was in the
habit of recording stuff from mydates right after they took
place.
So, um, I had some, uh, verydetailed notes and iRead through
them and felt, felt veryvindicated.
(12:15):
Like, yeah, this was a two-sidedconversation.
And isn't this an interestinglittle dynamic that he walked
away feeling as though I talkedall night about my divorces and
I walked away.
feeling like he talked alot about his.
So when I responded, this iswhat I said.
(12:37):
I said, you know, it's funnyperspective is everything.
While I have no doubt, I likelyovershared about my divorce.
I was barely divorced fromnumber two when we met, what I
remember most from ourconversation is the story of
your wife, cheating on you withher personal trainer and your
(12:57):
murderous feelings thereafter.
I can't help thinking as thoughthis was indeed a backhanded
compliment, despite your prefacethat you are not spiteful, I
will take your congratulationsanyway, because I am quite proud
of the success of my podcast.
And more importantly, mypersonal growth.
Thank you.
(13:18):
I wish you all the best.
And I do.
I thought it was quite weirdthat he texted that the way that
he did, like if he wanted tosend me something congratulatory
and kind, he probably would'veleft out some of those details
that I, you know, talked for twohours about my divorce, but
(13:39):
that's okay.
That's okay.
We're all learning here.
Right.
So I will tell you, we went onto text back and forth a couple
more times and it was allcordial and kind, and hopefully
that air's cleared now.
Right?
So that's the first text messagethat I've received like that
(14:00):
from somebody that I've gone outwith in the past.
I mean, we all know typicallywhen someone resurfaces it's
because they wanna ask you outagain, or, you know, they've
been thinking about you orsomething, whatever.
And I, I get it like he, he wasthinking of me because he'd
listened to the podcast and thatwas the point of it.
But I guess where I'm going withthis is, you know, we had a
short date where we learnedabout each other's divorces.
(14:23):
It wasn't romantic.
Um, it was just a briefencounter, you know, with
someone at the same spot inlife.
And I think therein lies thedifference between some of the
dates that I've gone on.
I've had plenty of dates whereI've learned a lot about the
other person's, um, divorce, howthey're feeling throughout
(14:45):
everything, even, you know,finances and money that they've
spent on things and issues withchildren.
I mean some tough stuff.
And I, I think as I'm workingthrough this right now with you
here, I think that thosedates were destined to be like
friendship dates.
(15:05):
Like I, I found myself likewanting to meet someone for the
sake of meeting someone to makea connection because they asked
me out and I was more thanwilling to meet them.
But I probably went into thedate knowing that there was not
going to be that romantic sexualattraction, chemistry spark that
we're all looking for.
(15:27):
And I do think that when there'sa spark, when there is that
giddy, Ooh, this is fun.
I kinda like this person.
We don't talk about this.
We don't talk about our exes.
We don't talk about the divorce.
We, we don't lean on them like afriend because we're into'em and
we, we just wanna know moreabout them.
(15:47):
Haha.
There's there's my littleepiphany that, that I didn't
know really was coming, but I dothink that's true.
So, huh.
I think I just learned a littlesomething about myself and I
hope maybe if you think back tosome of your dates where you, uh
, gave up a lot about yourselfand your past a little too
quickly, um, if it led to anongoing romantic relationship or
(16:12):
if there was no date number two,, it'd be interesting to
see if we can all find somepatterns there.
Right?
So I'm gonna take this in alittle bit of a different
direction.
So I'm in sales, right?
And I do not consider myself tobe an aggressive, aggressive
sale.
I just combined two words,aggressive salesy type of person
(16:36):
at all.
I'm a relationship person alwayshave been, always will be.
I care about the people that Iget to know when I go into
doctor's offices, thereceptionists, the nurses, the
MAs, the doctors, the nursepractitioners, everyone in the
office.
They're like my coworkers,they're my people.
I see them on a regular basis.
I don't have coworkers in mycity.
(16:58):
Um, so I, I befriend them.
Um, we have the same mission,which is to help patients.
There's a little bit of a weirdaspect that they know I'm there
representing a drug that I'mhoping they will use for their
patients.
But over time I try very hard toearn the trust of all of them.
(17:23):
I wouldn't represent somethingthat I didn't believe would help
a certain number of appropriatepatients.
Right?
So it's, it's a little bit of aninteresting dynamic in my
workplace.
And I have learned a lot ofdifferent sales techniques and
communication styles and ways ofsharing information and stuff
(17:46):
over the years, as you canimagine.
And I know that there are a, a,a disproportionate number of
pharmaceutical and medicaldevice sales people that listen
to my podcast.
So I hope that I hope that ifyou're in that world, this all
obviously will ring true withyou.
But if you, um, if you are not,I think you'll follow just fine.
(18:07):
So at a, at a recent meeting forwork, um, we had a workshop with
a group called the black Swangroup and they talked to us
about a communication, um,technique.
And it is based on the book byChris Vos, never split the
(18:28):
difference.
So the tactics that they taughtus were coming from a background
of hostage negotiations.
That's, that's the backgroundof, of the men involved in the
book and the presentation that Iwas a part of.
And so obviously most of us arenot skilled in that type of a
(18:53):
negotiation, but we could relatethe skills that they taught us
to our interpersonalcommunications, whether it be,
um, you know, with our familymembers, our spouses, our
significant others, or in ourplace of work.
So essentially the, the maintactics that I learned about,
(19:14):
and they have several differentskills, but they spent an
extraordinary amount of timeteaching us what they call
labeling and mirrors withinconversation.
Okay.
So hear me out.
This is, we're still on theemotionally slutty topic.
so one way I have justlearned to avoid spewing out
(19:35):
personal information and reallytrying to learn someone else's
motivations, um, or to use someof these tactics.
So this is kind of how it works.
So you're on a date and someonesays to you, you know, I was
married for 10 years and in thatamount of time, I think I golfed
(19:56):
twice once was at a charitytournament.
And the other time was like, I,I took a day off and I paid my
greens fees in cash and I justducked out and, uh, never spoke
of it.
It was like under a covertoperation, undercover, um, golf
outing, because I just couldnever get time to myself to
(20:18):
golf.
And so now I'm divorced and, andI golf all the time.
So a labeling technique in thissituation for you to reply would
be, it sounds like you valueyour ability to spend your free
time, however you like inparticular playing golf.
(20:43):
And when you say something likethat, it tends to make the con
it perpetuates the conversation.
Well, yeah, I never got to do,you know, make decisions on my
own and I like wasn't allowed, Ihad to ask permission to golf.
So I never got to play because,you know, she would always come
up with something else for me todo around the house and I'd
never get to go.
(21:04):
And then an example of a mirrorwould be never get to go.
And he would say, right, like,never, like I just told you, I
only went two times in 10 years.
Okay.
So essentially labeling andmirroring mirroring is like
repeating the last few wordsthat they say to kind of add
(21:24):
inflection at the end as aquestion to get them to go on
and on and on.
And then labeling is likelistening to the words that
they're saying and calling itwhat it is.
And in this style ofconversation, again, it's all
about you not talking andgetting them to dish more on
(21:48):
themselves.
Hmm.
So while I was sitting at thetable with my coworkers and
friends from, from my work, aswe were all learning this
together, I mean, it was, it waslaughable at times because of
the conversations that we foundourselves having.
But it is just so outside of ourcomfort zones, because most of
(22:09):
us, I mean, my degree is incommunications.
Most of, most of us are taughtagain to find common ground, to
find a subject that, you know,when he says golf, I say, you
know, it's funny I don't play,but I really enjoy the game.
Yeah.
I love watching it ontelevision.
I've only been to one PGAtournament, but I would love to
go to more, you know, have youever been to a PGA tournament?
(22:32):
Like in my experience, that'show I communicate.
Like you kind of listen forthose cues that are relatable.
You add something to it and youask a question, right.
And, and then you go back andforth asking one another
questions politely.
So this is totally different.
Um, and I do think that it hasits place for sure.
I think it's a, it it'svaluable.
(22:52):
And I think that I definitelywalked well, I know I walked
away, um, with some differentideas of, you know, essentially
how I could, how I could handlesome difficult conversations,
but I just couldn't help.
But thinking at the end of allof it, I am still such a
believer that vulnerabilitybegets vulnerability.
And if you want someone to giveof themselves, you have to be
(23:17):
willing.
You have to be willing to giveof yourself too.
Right.
Okay.
So to kind of tie this up with abow, doesn't it make sense then
when I circled back thinkingabout that date that I went on a
couple years ago that I, itwasn't just me who dumped my
divorce story on him.
He shared his divorce story too.
(23:38):
That's what we talked about forthe couple of hours that we were
on that date, probably becauseone or both of us did not feel
like we were on a date.
We felt like we were making anew friend.
That's how I felt.
I can't speak for how he felt.
That's why it went that way.
It wasn't some ludicrous.
I just went on and on and onranting for two hours about
(23:59):
everything I was going through.
And he shared nothing.
It was much, much more balancedthan that.
And then let's just talk aboutthis epiphany of mine.
I just mentioned it.
If I was into him, if I wassexually attracted to him, if I
wanted to go on more dates withhim, wouldn't I have talked
(24:20):
about something else.
Yeah.
Naturally I think we all wouldin summation I think in
my case being emotionallyslutty, I will just say it.
I think it's more of a blessingthan a curse.
It's not for everyone.
Not everyone wants to talk aboutreally emotionally charged,
(24:44):
difficult to talk about things.
Deep thought provoking, um,conversations.
Not everyone is up for that.
And that's okay.
They're just probably not mypeople.
Uh, especially if they wannajudge me for how willing I am to
be open about my life.
They're not for me.
(25:05):
And that's okay.
So I'm gonna keep on beingvulnerable, being transparent,
giving of myself and hoping toget the same in return from the
people I care about and chooseto spend time with.
But I am going to continue towork on my level of self
(25:27):
awareness.
You know, not talking aboutthings that don't need to be
talked about with someone thatI, you know, just met.
Some of this stuff can, can, uh,be shared with people I'm closer
with.
And I recognize that too.
I hope that this has resonatedwith you guys, um, while you're
(25:50):
thinking about your owncommunication practices with
other people and how some ofyour dates have gone, which
dates did you talk about yourpast?
Which dates did you focus on?
The connection that you havewith the person right next to
you?
Can't wait to hear your stories.
And as always, I appreciate youall so much for listening to
(26:12):
season two, episode two,emotionally slutty, you guys are
the best.
And I so appreciate you sharingthe podcast with your friends
and loved ones.
Anyone that you think wouldenjoy it, just send the link.
Will ya?
That's how podcasts grow.
Just like a good book that you,uh, tell people about.
(26:32):
Um, so please do share andcoming up next season two,
episode three influencer forgood.
Welcome to man shopping with Stacy, where I
share my real transparent datingand life experiences for your
amusement and inspiration.
I'm your host, Stacy weer, andyou are listening to season two,
episode two, emotionally slutty.
Hmm.
(00:22):
Hey, I get it.
Those are some strong words,strong words, indeed, but
they're not mine.
I can't, uh, I can't beresponsible for them.
They were part of a line fromone of my favorite shows, um,
sex and the city season fiveepisode eight, Carrie Bradshaw
says I revealed too much toosoon.
(00:45):
I was emotionally slutty.
Okay.
I get it in 2022.
We don't use words like anymore.
Pretty shameful, pretty vulgar,disgusting word, but it does
make a strong point in, uh, inthis frame of reference.
I hope, where am I going withthis?
(01:06):
Hmm.
Talking about that all toocommon habit.
Some of us are in of, uh, givingit up a little too early.
Hmm.
By giving it up.
I mean, sharing the details ofyour life, the stuff that should
be reserved for people who mightstick around in our lives for a
(01:29):
while.
So in this episode, I am goingto share with you what this
means to me and how it seems tobe a blessing and a curse that I
wear my heart on my sleeve.
I'm also going to tell you avery in depth story of, um, how
(01:54):
this played out on a date that Iwent on one time, and then I'm
gonna talk about this from theaspect of like dating coaches,
dos and don'ts communicationstyles.
And, uh, just this idea ofvulnerability and communication
in general.
So if you know me at all, youknow that I am totally using
(02:18):
this podcast as a tool for selfdiscovery, self-reflection
growth, all of those things.
So here we go.
about to get real mm-hmm
So I actually, I've talked aboutmy vision board before on this
podcast, and I have to tell you,I have been really bad about
(02:39):
updating it.
And, uh, I'm pretty muchoperating off of 2020s vision
board.
And quite frankly, it's all kindof still the same stuff anyway,
but for some reason, you guys,for some reason,
quote from Carrie Bradshaw is onmy vision board.
(02:59):
Now, is that like a warning tomyself?
Like, like, look out Stacy, um,you do this, like, watch
yourself, don't give it up tooquickly.
Or is it on my vision board?
Because it's also a gift of minethat I do share a lot of myself
(03:20):
with others.
And I do consider it to be moreof a blessing than a curse I do.
This is me.
I wear my heart on my sleeve.
I'm an open book.
Yeah.
But has it bit me in the morethan once.
Of course it has, you know, you,when you make yourself
(03:42):
vulnerable and you giveinformation freely of yourself,
um, if you're like me, I think Ido this, um, especially in one,
on one, you know, in personconversation.
I think that I am vulnerable inconversation because I want
others to be vulnerable with me.
(04:04):
I just have a huge preferencefor depth and conversation.
I can small talk with the bestof them.
I can talk about sports, thestock market politics, whatever,
um, things that are on the newsin the headlines.
But I would much rather get toknow someone what makes them
(04:26):
tick?
What motivates them, whatinspires them, why they are the
way they are.
And so put me on a date and justguess what happens?
I enjoy it.
I even the, even the difficultconversations talking about, um,
(04:46):
stressed relationships withfamily members, exes children,
challenges, um, obstacles.
I, I enjoy that kind ofconversation.
It's meaningful.
It's impactful.
I think it, it helps me tobecome a better person when I
can hear other people'shardships too.
Not only to know that I'm notalone, but also to know, you
(05:11):
know, what they did to getthrough them.
I think it makes us all betterpeople when we can connect on a
deep level, but I'm also not anidiot.
I'm self aware.
I know what all of the experts,you know, the dating coaches,
the self best, you know, datingexperts out there.
(05:33):
Um, but also
people with lots of educationand credentials behind their
name, all of them would tell usthat we need to reserve these
serious conversations forsomeone, you know, later,
someone who sticks aroundsomeone that we go on multiple
dates with that we try to builda relationship with.
Those are the people that wewould have these conversations
(05:54):
with.
I know I'm not a dumb.
Like I get it.
I know that that's what they sayto do.
But if you've been on some datesafter divorce, you also know
exactly what happens.
This is human nature.
This is what we are up against.
You know, sometimes we getcaught off guard with a very
(06:18):
direct question.
Oh, you know, how, how did yourmarriage end?
How long have you been single?
When did you know that yourmarriage was over?
I mean, for real, this happens,you get a direct question and
then there you are kind ofpulled into a conversation about
your divorce or it can happenmore subtly.
And I think, you know, the moreorganic way that this can happen
(06:40):
is you get triggered bysomething, you know?
Um, oh, I just got my privatepilot's license, blah, blah,
blah.
Oh, well,
Elaine's dad's a pilot and I satright seat for hundreds of
hours.
Yeah.
That's a real conversation I'vehad before.
Mm-hmm
(07:02):
to tell you you've been there.
You've done that.
It happens.
And then sometimes we leavethese dates, like beating
ourselves up, like, oh my God, Ido it all the time.
I'll talk to my friends.
I'm like, I probably talkedabout that for too long.
That could have been takennegatively.
Oh yeah.
The mood shifted when we startedtalking about that.
It's normal.
It's part of it's part of theprocess.
(07:23):
I don't know.
I don't know that it ever ends,you know, you take out big
chunks of your life, you know,5, 10, 15, 20 years of being in
serious relationships sometimeslonger.
How do you, how do you omit allof that?
I don't know.
Redirect the conversation.
(07:45):
I suppose some people would saymake a clear statement.
You know what?
I don't wanna talk about thattonight.
Let's talk about you.
What's your favorite color?
You know what I mean?
And then the other thing that Ithink happens a lot, a lot, a
lot is we find common groundwith why we're here, we're here
(08:05):
because we met on Bumble
online dating stories.
And usually you tell the funnyones and it's, you know, again,
something in common that you canboth talk about.
So clearly there are ways toavoid these subjects, objects
(08:26):
and to steer conversations onfirst dates, around happier,
more pleasant, fun topics.
And that's what we should befocusing on.
Right.
But let me tell you about a datewhere it didn't quite go that
way.
I'm going to kind of approachthis backwards.
And I'm going to tell it in thisdirection, because I recently
(08:51):
received a text message from aguy that I had gone on a date
with back in spring of 2020.
Now my divorce was finalmid-February of 2020.
So it's been a minute and thiswas one of the early, you know,
dates that I went on.
(09:12):
And I, when he texted me, let mejust tell you, it caught me off
guard.
I'm gonna go ahead and read toyou.
Okay.
Hi, Stacy.
Hope you are well, I waslistening to a couple of your
podcasts and thought back to ourdate back in spring 2020, I
think anyway, I remember comingaway from the date thinking all
(09:35):
we did was talk about your twodivorces for the two hour date.
I had to admit, I left shakingmy head.
It wasn't until I was listeningto one of your episodes that it
dawned on me that maybe that'swhat she was needing at that
time.
She was working through what weall have to work through.
At some point, this text isn'tto be taken as spiteful, rather
(09:57):
it's to say, I am happy for youbecause it sounds like you are
finding your groove.
Now this divorce processingstuff sucks, and it takes a
while, but you appear to be onyour way, congrats on all the
success.
How do you think I reacted tothat text message?
(10:21):
You know, it's kind of like whensomeone comes up to you and
says, I don't mean to sound likean, but now I don't want you to
take this wrong, but I mean, I'mnot trying to be a jerk, but
right.
That text had me feeling allsorts of defensive.
(10:44):
First.
I had to like dust off thecobwebs and think back to the
date.
And it's funny because all Icould remember was his divorce
story.
I remembered tons of details asI was all fired up.
After I read this text messageand I was trying to like sort
through my feelings and why, whyI took it the way that I did,
(11:07):
which was very negative
like, oh my God, I could tellyou everything about the end of
his marriage and how he feltabout it.
He used the word murderous.
I remember I remember the wordmurderous coming out of his
mouth.
And so my friends were like,well, maybe he's just trying to
be nice.
And until you congratulations,I'm like, no, that's not how I
(11:29):
take it.
Not at all.
Maybe I'm wrong, not how I tookit.
So, funny thing, I had written achapter about him.
That's almost done man.
Shopping with Stacy.
Yep.
He has a whole chapter based onone short date.
(11:50):
And it's funny.
It's really funny how much Icaptured because I was in the
habit of recording stuff from mydates right after they took
place.
So, um, I had some, uh, verydetailed notes and iRead through
them
(12:15):
Like, yeah, this was a two-sidedconversation.
And isn't this an interestinglittle dynamic that he walked
away feeling as though I talkedall night about my divorces and
I walked away.
So when I responded, this iswhat I said.
(12:37):
I said, you know, it's funnyperspective is everything.
While I have no doubt, I likelyovershared about my divorce.
I was barely divorced fromnumber two when we met, what I
remember most from ourconversation is the story of
your wife, cheating on you withher personal trainer and your
(12:57):
murderous feelings thereafter.
I can't help thinking as thoughthis was indeed a backhanded
compliment, despite your prefacethat you are not spiteful, I
will take your congratulationsanyway, because I am quite proud
of the success of my podcast.
And more importantly, mypersonal growth.
Thank you.
(13:18):
I wish you all the best.
And I do.
I thought it was quite weirdthat he texted that the way that
he did, like if he wanted tosend me something congratulatory
and kind, he probably would'veleft out some of those details
that I, you know, talked for twohours about my divorce, but
(13:39):
that's okay.
That's okay.
We're all learning here.
Right.
So I will tell you, we went onto text back and forth a couple
more times and it was allcordial and kind, and hopefully
that air's cleared now.
Right?
So that's the first text messagethat I've received like that
(14:00):
from somebody that I've gone outwith in the past.
I mean, we all know typicallywhen someone resurfaces it's
because they wanna ask you outagain, or, you know, they've
been thinking about you orsomething, whatever.
And I, I get it like he, he wasthinking of me because he'd
listened to the podcast and thatwas the point of it.
But I guess where I'm going withthis is, you know, we had a
short date where we learnedabout each other's divorces.
(14:23):
It wasn't romantic.
Um, it was just a briefencounter, you know, with
someone at the same spot inlife.
And I think therein lies thedifference between some of the
dates that I've gone on.
I've had plenty of dates whereI've learned a lot about the
other person's, um, divorce, howthey're feeling throughout
(14:45):
everything, even, you know,finances and money that they've
spent on things and issues withchildren.
I mean some tough stuff.
And I, I think as I'm workingthrough this right now with you
here,
friendship dates.
(15:05):
Like I, I found myself likewanting to meet someone for the
sake of meeting someone to makea connection because they asked
me out and I was more thanwilling to meet them.
But I probably went into thedate knowing that there was not
going to be that romantic sexualattraction, chemistry spark that
we're all looking for.
(15:27):
And I do think that when there'sa spark, when there is that
giddy, Ooh, this is fun.
I kinda like this person.
We don't talk about this.
We don't talk about our exes.
We don't talk about the divorce.
We, we don't lean on them like afriend because we're into'em and
we, we just wanna know moreabout them.
(15:47):
Haha.
There's there's my littleepiphany that, that I didn't
know really was coming, but I dothink that's true.
So, huh.
I think I just learned a littlesomething about myself and I
hope maybe if you think back tosome of your dates where you, uh
, gave up a lot about yourselfand your past a little too
quickly, um, if it led to anongoing romantic relationship or
(16:12):
if there was no date number two,
see if we can all find somepatterns there.
Right?
So I'm gonna take this in alittle bit of a different
direction.
So I'm in sales, right?
And I do not consider myself tobe an aggressive, aggressive
sale.
I just combined two words,aggressive salesy type of person
(16:36):
at all.
I'm a relationship person alwayshave been, always will be.
I care about the people that Iget to know when I go into
doctor's offices, thereceptionists, the nurses, the
MAs, the doctors, the nursepractitioners, everyone in the
office.
They're like my coworkers,they're my people.
I see them on a regular basis.
I don't have coworkers in mycity.
(16:58):
Um, so I, I befriend them.
Um, we have the same mission,which is to help patients.
There's a little bit of a weirdaspect that they know I'm there
representing a drug that I'mhoping they will use for their
patients.
But over time I try very hard toearn the trust of all of them.
(17:23):
I wouldn't represent somethingthat I didn't believe would help
a certain number of appropriatepatients.
Right?
So it's, it's a little bit of aninteresting dynamic in my
workplace.
And I have learned a lot ofdifferent sales techniques and
communication styles and ways ofsharing information and stuff
(17:46):
over the years, as you canimagine.
And I know that there are a, a,a disproportionate number of
pharmaceutical and medicaldevice sales people that listen
to my podcast.
So I hope that I hope that ifyou're in that world, this all
obviously will ring true withyou.
But if you, um, if you are not,I think you'll follow just fine.
(18:07):
So at a, at a recent meeting forwork, um, we had a workshop with
a group called the black Swangroup and they talked to us
about a communication, um,technique.
And it is based on the book byChris Vos, never split the
(18:28):
difference.
So the tactics that they taughtus were coming from a background
of hostage negotiations.
That's, that's the backgroundof, of the men involved in the
book and the presentation that Iwas a part of.
And so obviously most of us arenot skilled in that type of a
(18:53):
negotiation, but we could relatethe skills that they taught us
to our interpersonalcommunications, whether it be,
um, you know, with our familymembers, our spouses, our
significant others, or in ourplace of work.
So essentially the, the maintactics that I learned about,
(19:14):
and they have several differentskills, but they spent an
extraordinary amount of timeteaching us what they call
labeling and mirrors withinconversation.
Okay.
So hear me out.
This is, we're still on theemotionally slutty topic.
(19:35):
personal information and reallytrying to learn someone else's
motivations, um, or to use someof these tactics.
So this is kind of how it works.
So you're on a date and someonesays to you, you know, I was
married for 10 years and in thatamount of time, I think I golfed
(19:56):
twice once was at a charitytournament.
And the other time was like, I,I took a day off and I paid my
greens fees in cash and I justducked out and, uh, never spoke
of it.
It was like under a covertoperation, undercover, um, golf
outing, because I just couldnever get time to myself to
(20:18):
golf.
And so now I'm divorced and, andI golf all the time.
So a labeling technique in thissituation for you to reply would
be, it sounds like you valueyour ability to spend your free
time, however you like inparticular playing golf.
(20:43):
And when you say something likethat, it tends to make the con
it perpetuates the conversation.
Well, yeah, I never got to do,you know, make decisions on my
own and I like wasn't allowed, Ihad to ask permission to golf.
So I never got to play because,you know, she would always come
up with something else for me todo around the house and I'd
never get to go.
(21:04):
And then an example of a mirrorwould be never get to go.
And he would say, right, like,never, like I just told you, I
only went two times in 10 years.
Okay.
So essentially labeling andmirroring mirroring is like
repeating the last few wordsthat they say to kind of add
(21:24):
inflection at the end as aquestion to get them to go on
and on and on.
And then labeling is likelistening to the words that
they're saying and calling itwhat it is.
And in this style ofconversation, again, it's all
about you not talking andgetting them to dish more on
(21:48):
themselves.
Hmm.
So while I was sitting at thetable with my coworkers and
friends from, from my work, aswe were all learning this
together, I mean, it was, it waslaughable at times because of
the conversations that we foundourselves having.
But it is just so outside of ourcomfort zones, because most of
(22:09):
us, I mean, my degree is incommunications.
Most of, most of us are taughtagain to find common ground, to
find a subject that, you know,when he says golf, I say, you
know, it's funny I don't play,but I really enjoy the game.
Yeah.
I love watching it ontelevision.
I've only been to one PGAtournament, but I would love to
go to more, you know, have youever been to a PGA tournament?
(22:32):
Like in my experience, that'show I communicate.
Like you kind of listen forthose cues that are relatable.
You add something to it and youask a question, right.
And, and then you go back andforth asking one another
questions politely.
So this is totally different.
Um, and I do think that it hasits place for sure.
I think it's a, it it'svaluable.
(22:52):
And I think that I definitelywalked well, I know I walked
away, um, with some differentideas of, you know, essentially
how I could, how I could handlesome difficult conversations,
but I just couldn't help.
But thinking at the end of allof it, I am still such a
believer that vulnerabilitybegets vulnerability.
And if you want someone to giveof themselves, you have to be
(23:17):
willing.
You have to be willing to giveof yourself too.
Right.
Okay.
So to kind of tie this up with abow, doesn't it make sense then
when I circled back thinkingabout that date that I went on a
couple years ago that I, itwasn't just me who dumped my
divorce story on him.
He shared his divorce story too.
(23:38):
That's what we talked about forthe couple of hours that we were
on that date, probably becauseone or both of us did not feel
like we were on a date.
We felt like we were making anew friend.
That's how I felt.
I can't speak for how he felt.
That's why it went that way.
It wasn't some ludicrous.
I just went on and on and onranting for two hours about
(23:59):
everything I was going through.
And he shared nothing.
It was much, much more balancedthan that.
And then let's just talk aboutthis epiphany of mine.
I just mentioned it.
If I was into him, if I wassexually attracted to him, if I
wanted to go on more dates withhim, wouldn't I have talked
(24:20):
about something else.
Yeah.
Naturally I think we all wouldin summation
my case being emotionallyslutty, I will just say it.
I think it's more of a blessingthan a curse.
It's not for everyone.
Not everyone wants to talk aboutreally emotionally charged,
(24:44):
difficult to talk about things.
Deep thought provoking, um,conversations.
Not everyone is up for that.
And that's okay.
They're just probably not mypeople.
Uh, especially if they wannajudge me for how willing I am to
be open about my life.
They're not for me.
(25:05):
And that's okay.
So I'm gonna keep on beingvulnerable, being transparent,
giving of myself and hoping toget the same in return from the
people I care about and chooseto spend time with.
But I am going to continue towork on my level of self
(25:27):
awareness.
You know, not talking aboutthings that don't need to be
talked about with someone thatI, you know, just met.
Some of this stuff can, can, uh,be shared with people I'm closer
with.
And I recognize that too.
I hope that this has resonatedwith you guys, um, while you're
(25:50):
thinking about your owncommunication practices with
other people and how some ofyour dates have gone, which
dates did you talk about yourpast?
Which dates did you focus on?
The connection that you havewith the person right next to
you?
Can't wait to hear your stories.
And as always, I appreciate youall so much for listening to
(26:12):
season two, episode two,emotionally slutty, you guys are
the best.
And I so appreciate you sharingthe podcast with your friends
and loved ones.
Anyone that you think wouldenjoy it, just send the link.
Will ya?
That's how podcasts grow.
Just like a good book that you,uh, tell people about.
(26:32):
Um, so please do share andcoming up next season two,
episode three influencer forgood.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.