November 18, 2022 • 27 mins
In this episode, I talk about navigating difficult conversations in our dating lives... When and how do we come clean about challenges (past or present) in our lives?
Some of the topics I explore:
- Marital infidelity
- Financial/debt issues
- Health concerns, including addiction or previous battles with addiction
- Difficult Relationships with exes or children
I share stories from listeners and friends, as well as a couple of my own. I also give advice, for what it's worth. :)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Man Shopping With Stacey, where I
share my real transparent datingand life experiences for your
amusement and inspiration.
You're listening to episode 59,deciding to come clean.
In this episode, I'm going totalk about navigating difficult
conversations in our datinglives.
(00:24):
Specifically, how and whenshould we spill it?
When should we come clean aboutmaybe marital infidelity or
indiscretions, financialhardships, illnesses?
Maybe we have difficultrelationships with our kids or
(00:44):
exes or we've had a criminalpast or had addiction problems.
I certainly don't claim to beany sort of dating expert, but I
gotta tell you, I sure havetalked to a lot of singles and
gathered some pretty good adviceand stories to share with you on
(01:06):
this topic today.
I think it's an important one,and I think it's a topic that a
lot of us struggle with when weare, uh, confiding in, in people
that we are beginningrelationship with.
So I'm gonna start with, I thinkone of the most common difficult
topics of conversation whendating, especially after
(01:27):
divorce, and that is ourfinances.
If you find yourself strugglingfinancially after divorce, you
are not alone.
I'm going to read just a littlebit of a forbes.com article that
just came out on October 20th,2022.
The title is The FinancialImpact of Divorce.
(01:51):
It says the average cost of awedding in the United States was
$28,000 in 2021.
According to the, not even withthe cost of this initial
celebration.
A happy, long-lasting marriagecan be one of the best ways to
build and maintain wealth Costsare shared between two
(02:12):
individuals and dual incomes canincrease standards of living and
allow for greater investmentopportunities.
Yet almost half of all marriagesin the United States end in
divorce erasing those costbenefits and often causing
deep-rooted stress for allfamily members, both emotionally
and financially.
The average cost of a divorce is15,000 per person and can
(02:37):
increase to$100,000 for a morecomplicated situation, such as a
custody dispute.
In a study of economic data from2004 to 2014, women over 50 who
divorced faced a 45% drop intheir standard of living while a
man's standard of living droppedby 21%.
(02:59):
Simply put, weigh singles are ata bit of a disadvantage.
Our finances are typically oneof the very biggest stressors,
um, that we face initially afterdivorce and potentially for
years to come as we adjust to anew standard of living, as
(03:20):
pointed out by that article aswe potentially pay off debt, um,
alimony, child support, and justsimply dividing property and
having to go out and buy thingsto sustain your household, uh,
that you used to share, it'sfreaking expensive.
(03:42):
So Elany and I have been on ourown for over three years now,
and occasionally, uh, we'll comeup with items around the house
like something common.
I'm talking like a deck ofcards, a pair of kitchen
scissors or something like, oh,you know, we, we used to have a
ping pong table or whatever, andLeni will make a joke and she'll
(04:04):
be like, yeah, we lost it in thedivorce.
, like, we can laughabout it because you guys, we
left a really big house with alot of stuff in it and moved
kind of under duress into, um, asmall apartment and we just
simply did not have room to moveanything.
And, um, I was being followedaround the house and harassed as
(04:27):
I packed.
And so we just, we lefthurriedly and without a lot of
stuff that I should have beenmore cautious about, um, taking,
you know, my fair share.
But I mean, we can laugh aboutit now, so it's not, it's not
horribly damaging, but, but boywas I not laughing about some of
(04:49):
the financial, um, things thathappened in my pretty simple and
pretty cheap divorce after eightyears since we didn't share
children, um, or anythingtogether.
But you guys, I am very, verywell aware that, um, financial
implications of divorce are hugeand again, on our minds a lot
(05:11):
and something that we, um, talkabout, you know, sometimes
pretty openly to get off of ourchest sometimes.
I was talking to a girlfriendrecently and she's like, I'm
working four jobs.
I'm like, what?
She's like, well, I mean, I havea hard time saying no to people.
(05:31):
So she has like her main, um,business main job, and then she
does a lot of side gigssometimes just simply out of, um
, helping others, right?
But she's like, I work my off.
I'm cautious, but she's like, Ihave debt.
And so she was telling me abouthow she was telling this guy, um
(05:56):
, or feels as though she shouldtell the guy that she's dating
about her financial situation.
And I was like, oh, no, no, no,no, Uhuh.
And she's like, what?
And I'm like, you do not have totell him your private financial
information.
You don't owe anybody that,like, that's your, your private
(06:19):
life.
That that does not need to bediscussed on dates.
And my advice to her that night,I don't even know that she was
asking for it, but what I toldher, cuz I couldn't help myself,
I was like, you know, in myopinion, again, for what it's
worth, I'm like, I think thatneeds to be reserved for a
(06:40):
relationship.
Like if you, if if you havegotten far enough in, you know,
into a dating relationship whereyou're discussing, um, moving in
together, sharing finances,getting engaged, or you think
that, you know, you're, you'regetting very serious and things
are moving that way, okay, thatmight be the time to like fess
(07:03):
up.
So I have this much on creditcard.
A I owe this much on studentloans.
I, you know, whatever it is.
I think that's the appropriatetime.
Definitely not during likecourtship and dating, in my
opinion, should any of that cometo light?
I have been on first dates wheremen have spilled financial
(07:27):
information to me, um, in anegative light as in, you know,
this is the amount of childsupport that I owe, this is the
amount that I have to pay, youknow, wife number one for
alimony.
This is what I owe for wifenumber two.
Oh my God, she took the house.
So now you know, this is thedebt that I've accumulated.
(07:47):
And, uh, yeah, that just, that'snot a fun date, first of all.
Um, second of all, like I don'tneed or want to know those
things for a couple of differentreasons.
One, I'm not gonna reciprocateand tell you my financial.
I'm just not like, that'sprivate.
That's for me, um, for me toknow.
And you'd find out, right?
(08:09):
I'm kidding.
But it's just, it's just notnecessary.
Tell your friends, tell yourfamily if you want to, to get,
you know, to get advice or justto be able to breathe and, and
decompress and complain orwhatever.
I totally think that a bigelement is like when we're
bitter and off about finances,which a lot of us are or have
(08:31):
been, um, soon after divorce ormaybe years later, um, it, it's
hard to, it's hard to get overit.
And so it, it helps and feelsgood to about it or to complain
about it out loud.
I get that, but a date is notthe appropriate time to do that.
Um, also my sweet, hardworkingfriend feels guilty over a small
(08:54):
amount of debt that wouldprobably, you know, it's not
gonna scare anybody off.
And I gotta say most of thepeople that she dates are
probably gonna be in a similarboat.
Okay.
So I just, I feel like part ofit is like out of guilt,
especially in her situation thatshe felt like she felt like
she'd be, you know, betrayed,um, men if they didn't walk
(09:18):
into, uh, dating her with theireyes wide open.
But again, I just think it'ssomething that should be
reserved for when things startto get serious.
This is kind of a different wayto look at it too.
One of the reasons that I havetold a couple of the men that I
have dated, like, oh, don't tellme anything about that.
(09:39):
I don't want to know, um,alimony figures.
I don't wanna know how you lostyour and your divorce or, or
whatever.
Because if I ever meet yourex-wife, I don't want to resent
her.
And if I were to move forwardinto, um, you know, living with
(10:01):
someone that I've had thesediscussions with, or God forbid
get married one day, I don'twanna compare our household
finances to how you used to livewith your first wife or your
last wife or whatever, or, orjust have those figures in my
head because I think it couldskew a relationship negatively
(10:24):
in a lot of different anddamaging ways.
Um, just for comparison sake,you know, well, geez, I think I
could maybe make an entirepodcast episode just about the
financial stuff.
Maybe I will do that down theroad.
But I'm gonna move on to anotherreally, really difficult subject
that, uh, I'm, if you've beendating much after divorce, I'm
(10:46):
sure you've had a conversationabout infidelity.
So, um, I received a really nicemessage on Instagram recently
from a male listener.
Um, he is in a relationship witha woman now and things are
getting serious and he confidedor confessed to her that he had
(11:08):
been unfaithful in his marriage.
He told me he waited until theydated around four months, and it
seemed as though he kind of felta weight lifted and he felt
really good about this decisionand telling her, um, because he
doesn't carry, you know, theguilt, um, or burden of, of
that, you know, anymore.
(11:28):
And she was, um, understandingand told him that he did the
right thing by waiting a littlebit and telling her once, um,
she knew him, you know, better.
And because then it kind of, youknow, her judgements and all of
that may have been different ofhim if she did not know him as
well at the beginning.
(11:50):
So I think that makes a wholelot of sense.
And, you know, to, to round outhis story.
I think an important point tomake too is that his affairs
were known by his ex-wife.
And so there was also the fearthat his girlfriend or the woman
he is in a relationship nowwould find out or hear
something, uh, from someoneelse.
(12:11):
And it wouldn't be his story andhis perspective and his side of
things.
And I think that's importanttoo.
So, uh, I would say well done.
I'm glad that they're navigatingall the messiness in life, you
know, together, and that, um,she is, his girlfriend is giving
him the opportunity to, uh, behonest and vulnerable and she's
(12:35):
accepting of him.
So I think that's a great start,you know, to their relationship.
It sounds like things are goingwell.
I gotta tell you though, I gaveopposite advice to a friend of
mine who came to me a couple ofyears ago.
He was, um, in a relationshipand he said, you know, I love
(12:56):
this girl, I'm gonna marry her.
And he was faced with the moraldilemma of telling her that he
had had a brief affair duringhis marriage, um, to his
ex-wife.
And his ex to my knowledge,never knew that he had cheated
(13:18):
on her.
It was actually, um, purelysexual, uh, an encounter or two.
And, uh, the marriage was fargone and it was not, um, the
cause, you know, of the divorce.
It was basically a, uh,byproduct of a marriage.
(13:39):
And I don't condone it by anystretch, but it was
inconsequential, um, to his newrelationship in my opinion.
And I felt as though if he wereto tell his girlfriend, uh, you
know, after they had beentogether for a matter of months
and were, you know, gettingengaged, I'm like, Ooh, like
(13:59):
poor timing.
Like you've been together for awhile.
I'm afraid that she will havetrust issues, um, with you.
So yeah, that's, uh, that's theadvice I gave him.
I think he took it, Ithink so, uh, anyway, you know,
the infidelity thing is, uh,just as common as financial
(14:20):
troubles after, after divorce, Ithink.
And I think that my advice onthis issue is to keep an open
mind.
I believe that affairs, for themost part are very horrible.
Again, byproducts of unhealthyor unhappy marriages.
(14:42):
I don't believe once a cheateralways a cheater.
No, I don't.
And I've been cheated on.
Um, I just, I just, uh, don'tthink that for the most part you
can take an individual and say,because they did this in one
relationship that they're highlylikely to do it again.
(15:05):
Maybe that's my negativitycoming out.
I don't know.
Um, but again, I think it's kindof circumstantial as to whether
you should share that withsomeone else or not, because let
me tell you, people are realquick to tell those of us
dating them, that they werecheated on.
(15:28):
It's such a common thing.
Oh yeah.
I mean, she, she was dating heryoga instructor, she was dating
the guy from the country club.
She was sleeping with her boss,blah, blah, blah.
Well, my guess is that'sprobably not the reason the
marriage ended.
My guess is, you know, she wassleeping with her boss because
(15:49):
you all had a whole bunch ofother problems at home.
Um, but again, uh, everysituation and circumstance is
different.
I just think that that isprivileged and private
information too, and should bediscussed sparingly.
And also like knowing all of thenitty gritty, dirty details of
(16:10):
any cheating within a marriage,I think is risky.
If you continue to date, um,again, you know, harboring bad
feelings about someone's ex isnever a good way to start off,
uh, you know, being around themor being part of their lives
(16:32):
because if they share childrentogether, you know, hopefully
you don't harbor a whole bunchof horrible feelings toward them
before you even meet them.
And I think it's, I think it'srisky to share some of those
stories, um, in great detailagain, or like prematurely or,
you know, when it's unnecessary.
I think this topic flows reallynicely into my next difficult,
(16:55):
um, conversation to have whendating.
And that is when we havestrained and difficult or even
toxic relationships with ourexes or our own close
relationship, like children orparents, those are big red flags
(17:17):
for most people dating.
Now with in saying that, I thinkagain, we should be reserving
judgment, hearing people out,getting to know them in their
heart before, you know,completely, you know, dismissing
them and never going on a secondor third or fourth date with
them.
But a first date is not the, isnot the platform to talk about,
(17:42):
you know, how much you hate yourex-wife or your ex-husband or
how hellacious your life hasbeen, um, throughout your
separation or divorce or, youknow, I've, I've met a lot of
people who work for or alongsidetheir parents or brother, sister
fam close family member.
So I have been, I've gotten anearful a lot about really
(18:05):
difficult, uh, strainedrelationships with, um,
immediate family members aswell.
So for me, uh, one of my dealbreakers is if the man I am
dating has a toxic relationshipwith their ex, meaning that they
(18:25):
do not co-parent together well,that they are in active
arguments about, you know,finances, schedules, and the
raising of their children, ifthat's where they're at, I do
not want to have anything to dowith that situation.
Uh, I'm gonna go out on a limband say, I'm probably not alone
in this.
Uh, I think there are a lot ofus who have, uh, dated a bit
(18:49):
that listen for cues and signsand are watching for flags in
this area.
So my advice to those of you whoare in like the throws of a
messy separation or divorce, andyou are still, uh, actively
negotiating, figuring out lifeas a single person, my advice
(19:14):
would be to talk to a therapist,your family members, your close
friends about that stuff, butnot your date.
I mean, in my opinion, if yourlife is messy and complicated
and, you know, in a lot ofturmoil, dating should be just
(19:35):
for fun at that point.
It should just be an escape forfun to meet people, to get
yourself out there, maybe adistraction.
Um, otherwise, like, take a stepback and ask yourself like, why
am I pouring my heart out to, uh, someone on a first or second
date about my struggles?
(19:56):
Because that's, you know,lending itself toward, um,
codependency at a not a veryhealthy beginning to, uh, fresh
new relationship, uh, if you'retrying to make it a long-lasting
one.
So there's a couple littlepieces of advice there.
I was in a conversation recentlywith a loved one and she was
(20:18):
telling me about her first datewith her husband who had just
passed away.
Actually, when we were havingthe conversation, she said that
they met for lunch and she wasnervous because she had a
feeling she was really gonnalike him.
And so she was doing what a lotof us do, and there was all this
(20:40):
self talk going on in her headbefore she met him for lunch.
And she's like, okay, I'm notgonna talk about my previous
previous relationships.
I'm not gonna talk about myhealth concerns because she had
some serious ongoing healthissues.
And she's like, okay, I'm notgonna bring that up, you know,
blah, blah, blah.
(21:00):
You can guess where this isgoing.
She got to lunch, she spilledher guts, she came clean, if you
will, about her, um, the stateof her health and her date, who
would later become her husbanddid the same thing.
So they both had somesignificant health concerns.
(21:23):
Now, to be fair, my loved onewas probably over 60 when they
met.
Okay, so slightly different,maybe, maybe not for some of us
more in our thirties, forties,or fifties, but health concerns,
illnesses, when is the righttime to talk about that?
(21:45):
I mean, some things you justcan't hide, right?
But other lingering issues,especially if they're, you know,
critical or could be terminal, Imean, how do we broach that
subject?
I mean, we're still deserving oflove, we're still deserving of
(22:06):
care and support and friendshipand a good time, all of that.
So I don't know.
Her story I felt was veryheartwarming because they fell
for each other for who oneanother was.
Like the health concerns andissues were a big part of their
(22:30):
marriage.
Um, and I still think it was abeautiful love story in that I
don't think either one of themwould've changed a thing.
You know, they, they met laterin life.
They fell head over heels forone another.
They accepted one another forwho they were when they met, and
(22:51):
they very much so remained trueto their wedding vows of in
sickness and in health for sure.
They both had an opportunity tocare for one another.
And at the end it was, um, myloved one who was more of a
caregiver for her husband.
Um, but, you know, such as lifeand could it have gone in the
(23:16):
opposite direction?
Yeah, there was definitely thatpotential and both of them were
willing to take that risk, ifyou will.
So, you know, it's interesting.
I've been on dates where menhave told me, you know, things,
ailments, things that are wrongwith them.
Sometimes it's as silly, youknow, or slight like bum knee
(23:39):
had shoulder surgery, a lot ofthat kind of stuff.
Um, we've been through,especially if, you know, you're
an athlete or, or whatever.
But then there's like moresignificant things too, like
ongoing things that, you know, Icould foresee.
Wow, that could, that could be alot to take on.
(24:00):
Um, mental health is one that alot of us discuss with people
that we're dating.
And I've met a couple of peoplethat have raised a few concerns
with, um, with their own mentalhealth.
Uh, just kind of having my eyeswide open to depression and
(24:20):
anxiety and how severe is it andwhat are you taking for it and
what kind of therapy are youdoing and what else, you know,
what, what, what does yoursupport system look like?
Because that, that's something,um, seriously to consider.
You know, when getting to knowother people, I would throw
addiction into this categorytoo.
(24:41):
Um, after I've had, you know, a,a good amount of exposure and
life, you know, sharing lifewith, with someone who struggles
with an addiction, uh, I, Iwould hope that that would be
exposed.
Um, in my case, it was a big fatsecret, uh, and not discussed
(25:04):
that actually concealed.
So I may tend to be a littlehypervigilant in this arena, but
all this affects all of us.
We all have bodies, we all haveminds, we all have souls.
And, um, with that, our humanityjust brings afflictions, right?
So I think it's only fair topresent an honest, clear picture
(25:28):
of, you know, the state of ourhealth at some point.
But I think it's completely,completely individualized, um,
for each and every one of us andeach and every, you know, dating
or relationship situation thatwe're in.
Just, I guess honesty is thebest policies, is what I would
say about that.
(25:49):
I hope that this podcast hasbeen helpful for you all as you
are navigating difficultconversations with the people
that you are dating, especiallyafter divorce, deciding to come
clean.
You know, I don't think it isever easy, but in a lot of
instances it's probably theright thing to do.
(26:12):
, thanks so much forlistening to episode 59,
deciding to come clean.
I really appreciate youlistening to the podcast and for
sharing it with others.
That's how podcasts grow.
And I love this little communitythat we are creating together of
(26:33):
happy and optimistic singles.
Most of us over 40 and, uh, livein life on our terms now.
So if you're looking for anotherway to support the show other
than sharing it, I would justask that you give me a follow on
Instagram, Stacey with an i ereweer, w I m E R.
(26:56):
I share a lot of my life onthere, but I would ask that you
follow me because I want to getto know all of you, and I spend
a good amount of time chattingin my dms.
Get I love, love, love to getshow ideas and feedback and hear
about you guys because that'sone of the ways I learn.
(27:18):
So thanks for the follow, anduntil next time,
Welcome to Man Shopping With Stacey, where I
share my real transparent datingand life experiences for your
amusement and inspiration.
You're listening to episode 59,deciding to come clean.
In this episode, I'm going totalk about navigating difficult
conversations in our datinglives.
(00:24):
Specifically, how and whenshould we spill it?
When should we come clean aboutmaybe marital infidelity or
indiscretions, financialhardships, illnesses?
Maybe we have difficultrelationships with our kids or
(00:44):
exes or we've had a criminalpast or had addiction problems.
I certainly don't claim to beany sort of dating expert, but I
gotta tell you, I sure havetalked to a lot of singles and
gathered some pretty good adviceand stories to share with you on
(01:06):
this topic today.
I think it's an important one,and I think it's a topic that a
lot of us struggle with when weare, uh, confiding in, in people
that we are beginningrelationship with.
So I'm gonna start with, I thinkone of the most common difficult
topics of conversation whendating, especially after
(01:27):
divorce, and that is ourfinances.
If you find yourself strugglingfinancially after divorce, you
are not alone.
I'm going to read just a littlebit of a forbes.com article that
just came out on October 20th,2022.
The title is The FinancialImpact of Divorce.
(01:51):
It says the average cost of awedding in the United States was
$28,000 in 2021.
According to the, not even withthe cost of this initial
celebration.
A happy, long-lasting marriagecan be one of the best ways to
build and maintain wealth Costsare shared between two
(02:12):
individuals and dual incomes canincrease standards of living and
allow for greater investmentopportunities.
Yet almost half of all marriagesin the United States end in
divorce erasing those costbenefits and often causing
deep-rooted stress for allfamily members, both emotionally
and financially.
The average cost of a divorce is15,000 per person and can
(02:37):
increase to$100,000 for a morecomplicated situation, such as a
custody dispute.
In a study of economic data from2004 to 2014, women over 50 who
divorced faced a 45% drop intheir standard of living while a
man's standard of living droppedby 21%.
(02:59):
Simply put, weigh singles are ata bit of a disadvantage.
Our finances are typically oneof the very biggest stressors,
um, that we face initially afterdivorce and potentially for
years to come as we adjust to anew standard of living, as
(03:20):
pointed out by that article aswe potentially pay off debt, um,
alimony, child support, and justsimply dividing property and
having to go out and buy thingsto sustain your household, uh,
that you used to share, it'sfreaking expensive.
(03:42):
So Elany and I have been on ourown for over three years now,
and occasionally, uh, we'll comeup with items around the house
like something common.
I'm talking like a deck ofcards, a pair of kitchen
scissors or something like, oh,you know, we, we used to have a
ping pong table or whatever, andLeni will make a joke and she'll
(04:04):
be like, yeah, we lost it in thedivorce.
left a really big house with alot of stuff in it and moved
kind of under duress into, um, asmall apartment and we just
simply did not have room to moveanything.
And, um, I was being followedaround the house and harassed as
(04:27):
I packed.
And so we just, we lefthurriedly and without a lot of
stuff that I should have beenmore cautious about, um, taking,
you know, my fair share.
But I mean, we can laugh aboutit now, so it's not, it's not
horribly damaging, but, but boywas I not laughing about some of
(04:49):
the financial, um, things thathappened in my pretty simple and
pretty cheap divorce after eightyears since we didn't share
children, um, or anythingtogether.
But you guys, I am very, verywell aware that, um, financial
implications of divorce are hugeand again, on our minds a lot
(05:11):
and something that we, um, talkabout, you know, sometimes
pretty openly to get off of ourchest sometimes.
I was talking to a girlfriendrecently and she's like, I'm
working four jobs.
I'm like, what?
She's like, well, I mean, I havea hard time saying no to people.
(05:31):
So she has like her main, um,business main job, and then she
does a lot of side gigssometimes just simply out of, um
, helping others, right?
But she's like, I work my off.
I'm cautious, but she's like, Ihave debt.
And so she was telling me abouthow she was telling this guy, um
(05:56):
, or feels as though she shouldtell the guy that she's dating
about her financial situation.
And I was like, oh, no, no, no,no, Uhuh
And she's like, what?
And I'm like, you do not have totell him your private financial
information.
You don't owe anybody that,like, that's your, your private
(06:19):
life.
That that does not need to bediscussed on dates.
And my advice to her that night,I don't even know that she was
asking for it, but what I toldher, cuz I couldn't help myself,
I was like, you know, in myopinion, again, for what it's
worth, I'm like, I think thatneeds to be reserved for a
(06:40):
relationship.
Like if you, if if you havegotten far enough in, you know,
into a dating relationship whereyou're discussing, um, moving in
together, sharing finances,getting engaged, or you think
that, you know, you're, you'regetting very serious and things
are moving that way, okay, thatmight be the time to like fess
(07:03):
up.
So I have this much on creditcard.
A I owe this much on studentloans.
I, you know, whatever it is.
I think that's the appropriatetime.
Definitely not during likecourtship and dating, in my
opinion, should any of that cometo light?
I have been on first dates wheremen have spilled financial
(07:27):
information to me, um, in anegative light as in, you know,
this is the amount of childsupport that I owe, this is the
amount that I have to pay, youknow, wife number one for
alimony.
This is what I owe for wifenumber two.
Oh my God, she took the house.
So now you know, this is thedebt that I've accumulated.
(07:47):
And, uh, yeah, that just, that'snot a fun date, first of all.
Um, second of all, like I don'tneed or want to know those
things for a couple of differentreasons.
One, I'm not gonna reciprocateand tell you my financial.
I'm just not like, that'sprivate.
That's for me, um, for me toknow.
And you'd find out, right?
(08:09):
I'm kidding.
But it's just, it's just notnecessary.
Tell your friends, tell yourfamily if you want to, to get,
you know, to get advice or justto be able to breathe and, and
decompress and complain orwhatever.
I totally think that a bigelement is like when we're
bitter and off about finances,which a lot of us are or have
(08:31):
been, um, soon after divorce ormaybe years later, um, it, it's
hard to, it's hard to get overit.
And so it, it helps and feelsgood to about it or to complain
about it out loud.
I get that, but a date is notthe appropriate time to do that.
Um, also my sweet, hardworkingfriend feels guilty over a small
(08:54):
amount of debt that wouldprobably, you know, it's not
gonna scare anybody off.
And I gotta say most of thepeople that she dates are
probably gonna be in a similarboat.
Okay.
So I just, I feel like part ofit is like out of guilt,
especially in her situation thatshe felt like she felt like
she'd be, you know, betrayed,um, men if they didn't walk
(09:18):
into, uh, dating her with theireyes wide open.
But again, I just think it'ssomething that should be
reserved for when things startto get serious.
This is kind of a different wayto look at it too.
One of the reasons that I havetold a couple of the men that I
have dated, like, oh, don't tellme anything about that.
(09:39):
I don't want to know, um,alimony figures.
I don't wanna know how you lostyour and your divorce or, or
whatever.
Because if I ever meet yourex-wife, I don't want to resent
her.
And if I were to move forwardinto, um, you know, living with
(10:01):
someone that I've had thesediscussions with, or God forbid
get married one day, I don'twanna compare our household
finances to how you used to livewith your first wife or your
last wife or whatever, or, orjust have those figures in my
head because I think it couldskew a relationship negatively
(10:24):
in a lot of different anddamaging ways.
Um, just for comparison sake,you know, well, geez, I think I
could maybe make an entirepodcast episode just about the
financial stuff.
Maybe I will do that down theroad.
But I'm gonna move on to anotherreally, really difficult subject
that, uh, I'm, if you've beendating much after divorce, I'm
(10:46):
sure you've had a conversationabout infidelity.
So, um, I received a really nicemessage on Instagram recently
from a male listener.
Um, he is in a relationship witha woman now and things are
getting serious and he confidedor confessed to her that he had
(11:08):
been unfaithful in his marriage.
He told me he waited until theydated around four months, and it
seemed as though he kind of felta weight lifted and he felt
really good about this decisionand telling her, um, because he
doesn't carry, you know, theguilt, um, or burden of, of
that, you know, anymore.
(11:28):
And she was, um, understandingand told him that he did the
right thing by waiting a littlebit and telling her once, um,
she knew him, you know, better.
And because then it kind of, youknow, her judgements and all of
that may have been different ofhim if she did not know him as
well at the beginning.
(11:50):
So I think that makes a wholelot of sense.
And, you know, to, to round outhis story.
I think an important point tomake too is that his affairs
were known by his ex-wife.
And so there was also the fearthat his girlfriend or the woman
he is in a relationship nowwould find out or hear
something, uh, from someoneelse.
(12:11):
And it wouldn't be his story andhis perspective and his side of
things.
And I think that's importanttoo.
So, uh, I would say well done.
I'm glad that they're navigatingall the messiness in life, you
know, together, and that, um,she is, his girlfriend is giving
him the opportunity to, uh, behonest and vulnerable and she's
(12:35):
accepting of him.
So I think that's a great start,you know, to their relationship.
It sounds like things are goingwell.
I gotta tell you though, I gaveopposite advice to a friend of
mine who came to me a couple ofyears ago.
He was, um, in a relationshipand he said, you know, I love
(12:56):
this girl, I'm gonna marry her.
And he was faced with the moraldilemma of telling her that he
had had a brief affair duringhis marriage, um, to his
ex-wife.
And his ex to my knowledge,never knew that he had cheated
(13:18):
on her.
It was actually, um, purelysexual, uh, an encounter or two.
And, uh, the marriage was fargone and it was not, um, the
cause, you know, of the divorce.
It was basically a, uh,byproduct of a marriage.
(13:39):
And I don't condone it by anystretch, but it was
inconsequential, um, to his newrelationship in my opinion.
And I felt as though if he wereto tell his girlfriend, uh, you
know, after they had beentogether for a matter of months
and were, you know, gettingengaged, I'm like, Ooh, like
(13:59):
poor timing.
Like you've been together for awhile.
I'm afraid that she will havetrust issues, um, with you.
So yeah, that's, uh, that's theadvice I gave him.
I think he took it
the infidelity thing is, uh,just as common as financial
(14:20):
troubles after, after divorce, Ithink.
And I think that my advice onthis issue is to keep an open
mind.
I believe that affairs, for themost part are very horrible.
Again, byproducts of unhealthyor unhappy marriages.
(14:42):
I don't believe once a cheateralways a cheater.
No, I don't.
And I've been cheated on.
Um, I just, I just, uh, don'tthink that for the most part you
can take an individual and say,because they did this in one
relationship that they're highlylikely to do it again.
(15:05):
Maybe that's my negativitycoming out.
I don't know.
Um, but again, I think it's kindof circumstantial as to whether
you should share that withsomeone else or not, because let
me tell you, people are realquick to tell
dating them, that they werecheated on.
(15:28):
It's such a common thing.
Oh yeah.
I mean, she, she was dating heryoga instructor, she was dating
the guy from the country club.
She was sleeping with her boss,blah, blah, blah.
Well, my guess is that'sprobably not the reason the
marriage ended.
My guess is, you know, she wassleeping with her boss because
(15:49):
you all had a whole bunch ofother problems at home.
Um, but again, uh, everysituation and circumstance is
different.
I just think that that isprivileged and private
information too, and should bediscussed sparingly.
And also like knowing all of thenitty gritty, dirty details of
(16:10):
any cheating within a marriage,I think is risky.
If you continue to date, um,again, you know, harboring bad
feelings about someone's ex isnever a good way to start off,
uh, you know, being around themor being part of their lives
(16:32):
because if they share childrentogether, you know, hopefully
you don't harbor a whole bunchof horrible feelings toward them
before you even meet them.
And I think it's, I think it'srisky to share some of those
stories, um, in great detailagain, or like prematurely or,
you know, when it's unnecessary.
I think this topic flows reallynicely into my next difficult,
(16:55):
um, conversation to have whendating.
And that is when we havestrained and difficult or even
toxic relationships with ourexes or our own close
relationship, like children orparents, those are big red flags
(17:17):
for most people dating.
Now with in saying that, I thinkagain, we should be reserving
judgment, hearing people out,getting to know them in their
heart before, you know,completely, you know, dismissing
them and never going on a secondor third or fourth date with
them.
But a first date is not the, isnot the platform to talk about,
(17:42):
you know, how much you hate yourex-wife or your ex-husband or
how hellacious your life hasbeen, um, throughout your
separation or divorce or, youknow, I've, I've met a lot of
people who work for or alongsidetheir parents or brother, sister
fam close family member.
So I have been, I've gotten anearful a lot about really
(18:05):
difficult, uh, strainedrelationships with, um,
immediate family members aswell.
So for me, uh, one of my dealbreakers is if the man I am
dating has a toxic relationshipwith their ex, meaning that they
(18:25):
do not co-parent together well,that they are in active
arguments about, you know,finances, schedules, and the
raising of their children, ifthat's where they're at, I do
not want to have anything to dowith that situation.
Uh, I'm gonna go out on a limband say, I'm probably not alone
in this.
Uh, I think there are a lot ofus who have, uh, dated a bit
(18:49):
that listen for cues and signsand are watching for flags in
this area.
So my advice to those of you whoare in like the throws of a
messy separation or divorce, andyou are still, uh, actively
negotiating, figuring out lifeas a single person, my advice
(19:14):
would be to talk to a therapist,your family members, your close
friends about that stuff, butnot your date.
I mean, in my opinion, if yourlife is messy and complicated
and, you know, in a lot ofturmoil, dating should be just
(19:35):
for fun at that point.
It should just be an escape forfun to meet people, to get
yourself out there, maybe adistraction.
Um, otherwise, like, take a stepback and ask yourself like, why
am I pouring my heart out to, uh, someone on a first or second
date about my struggles?
(19:56):
Because that's, you know,lending itself toward, um,
codependency at a not a veryhealthy beginning to, uh, fresh
new relationship, uh, if you'retrying to make it a long-lasting
one.
So there's a couple littlepieces of advice there.
I was in a conversation recentlywith a loved one and she was
(20:18):
telling me about her first datewith her husband who had just
passed away.
Actually, when we were havingthe conversation, she said that
they met for lunch and she wasnervous because she had a
feeling she was really gonnalike him.
And so she was doing what a lotof us do, and there was all this
(20:40):
self talk going on in her headbefore she met him for lunch.
And she's like, okay, I'm notgonna talk about my previous
previous relationships.
I'm not gonna talk about myhealth concerns because she had
some serious ongoing healthissues.
And she's like, okay, I'm notgonna bring that up, you know,
blah, blah, blah.
(21:00):
You can guess where this isgoing.
She got to lunch, she spilledher guts, she came clean, if you
will, about her, um, the stateof her health and her date, who
would later become her husbanddid the same thing.
So they both had somesignificant health concerns.
(21:23):
Now, to be fair, my loved onewas probably over 60 when they
met.
Okay, so slightly different,maybe, maybe not for some of us
more in our thirties, forties,or fifties, but health concerns,
illnesses, when is the righttime to talk about that?
(21:45):
I mean, some things you justcan't hide, right?
But other lingering issues,especially if they're, you know,
critical or could be terminal, Imean, how do we broach that
subject?
I mean, we're still deserving oflove, we're still deserving of
(22:06):
care and support and friendshipand a good time, all of that.
So I don't know.
Her story I felt was veryheartwarming because they fell
for each other for who oneanother was.
Like the health concerns andissues were a big part of their
(22:30):
marriage.
Um, and I still think it was abeautiful love story in that I
don't think either one of themwould've changed a thing.
You know, they, they met laterin life.
They fell head over heels forone another.
They accepted one another forwho they were when they met, and
(22:51):
they very much so remained trueto their wedding vows of in
sickness and in health for sure.
They both had an opportunity tocare for one another.
And at the end it was, um, myloved one who was more of a
caregiver for her husband.
Um, but, you know, such as lifeand could it have gone in the
(23:16):
opposite direction?
Yeah, there was definitely thatpotential and both of them were
willing to take that risk, ifyou will.
So, you know, it's interesting.
I've been on dates where menhave told me, you know, things,
ailments, things that are wrongwith them.
Sometimes it's as silly, youknow, or slight like bum knee
(23:39):
had shoulder surgery, a lot ofthat kind of stuff.
Um, we've been through,especially if, you know, you're
an athlete or, or whatever.
But then there's like moresignificant things too, like
ongoing things that, you know, Icould foresee.
Wow, that could, that could be alot to take on.
(24:00):
Um, mental health is one that alot of us discuss with people
that we're dating.
And I've met a couple of peoplethat have raised a few concerns
with, um, with their own mentalhealth.
Uh, just kind of having my eyeswide open to depression and
(24:20):
anxiety and how severe is it andwhat are you taking for it and
what kind of therapy are youdoing and what else, you know,
what, what, what does yoursupport system look like?
Because that, that's something,um, seriously to consider.
You know, when getting to knowother people, I would throw
addiction into this categorytoo.
(24:41):
Um, after I've had, you know, a,a good amount of exposure and
life, you know, sharing lifewith, with someone who struggles
with an addiction, uh, I, Iwould hope that that would be
exposed.
Um, in my case, it was a big fatsecret, uh, and not discussed
(25:04):
that actually concealed.
So I may tend to be a littlehypervigilant in this arena, but
all this affects all of us.
We all have bodies, we all haveminds, we all have souls.
And, um, with that, our humanityjust brings afflictions, right?
So I think it's only fair topresent an honest, clear picture
(25:28):
of, you know, the state of ourhealth at some point.
But I think it's completely,completely individualized, um,
for each and every one of us andeach and every, you know, dating
or relationship situation thatwe're in.
Just, I guess honesty is thebest policies, is what I would
say about that.
(25:49):
I hope that this podcast hasbeen helpful for you all as you
are navigating difficultconversations with the people
that you are dating, especiallyafter divorce, deciding to come
clean.
You know, I don't think it isever easy, but in a lot of
instances it's probably theright thing to do.
(26:12):
deciding to come clean.
I really appreciate youlistening to the podcast and for
sharing it with others.
That's how podcasts grow.
And I love this little communitythat we are creating together of
(26:33):
happy and optimistic singles.
Most of us over 40 and, uh, livein life on our terms now.
So if you're looking for anotherway to support the show other
than sharing it, I would justask that you give me a follow on
Instagram, Stacey with an i ereweer, w I m E R.
(26:56):
I share a lot of my life onthere, but I would ask that you
follow me because I want to getto know all of you, and I spend
a good amount of time chattingin my dms.
Get I love, love, love to getshow ideas and feedback and hear
about you guys because that'sone of the ways I learn.
(27:18):
So thanks for the follow, anduntil next time,
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