Burnout Is NOT Normal: How Stress Wrecks Your Work & Relationship | WPWI Founders #637

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Burnout recovery, workplace wellbeing, and relationship health all in one powerful episode.  

Over 60% of Aussie workers report burnout the highest rate globally. But what if burnout wasn’t a badge of honour, but a red flag?

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Do Something Today To Be Better For Tomorrow

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What would it look like if your workplace not only
pushed you to succeed, but alsoprotected your mental health in
the process?
Right now, 61% of Australianworkers report experiencing
burnout, which is the highestrate in the world, and in the US
, nearly three out of fiveemployees say burnout is
affecting their job performanceSomewhere along the way.

(00:21):
Stress became normal,exhaustion became expected and
well-being got pushed to thebottom of the priority list.
But what if that could change?
Today?
I'm joined by Lauren and Jason,two leaders who've lived the
cost of burnout and now flippingthe script through their work
with a thriving workplace andthe workplace well-being.

(00:42):
Lauren's story as a paramedic,jason's as a teacher show just
how universal and urgent thisissue is.
So let me start here, guys,welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Amazing Thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Very excited to chat and to dive into this.
It's such an important topic.
The work that you guys aredoing and how you're showing up,
especially online, as I keepfollowing along is always
getting me to think, which iswhy I'm very, very pumped for
this Quick question to both ofyou, and you can handball it
around when did you firstrealize that burnout wasn't just
part of the job but a sign thatsomething had to change?

(01:17):
Oh, what a great question.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
I think for me, if I was to go back to my teaching
career, is I was sitting in aclassroom one day and I remember
it like it was just yesterdayand I had three different
colleagues of mine come into myclassroom at three different
times of the day and just burstout crying because they had
enough of the stress, theworkload, but really it was more
of the culture.

(01:40):
It was that silent culturewhere in education, where it's
like you've got to do all thiswork, you've got to meet the
parent expectations, you've gotto meet the expectations of the
school as well, and they werejust over it.
They were just I can't takethis anymore.
And to me that was the pointwhere I drew the line in the
sand, where I said, okay, we'vegot to do something about this.
For sure, that was in a shortterm.
That was definitely mine.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Yeah, I guess mine's kind of similar when I started
out as a paramedic and I wasreally excited, obviously, to
enter this new career and I gotinto that because I wanted to
help people.
But it didn't take me too longuntil I realized that for
starters we weren't reallyhelping people, we were just
picking people up and takingthem to hospital, but that was
all we.
You know we're picking up thesame patients over and over

(02:22):
again and it's okay, something'snot right here because there's
no solution, that we're notactually fixing anything and
we're actually building on theproblem because it's getting
more medications and theirhealth is declining.
So I saw the sort of effects, Iguess, of stress on communities
.
But then I also saw the effectsof stress on my fellow
colleagues as well, andparamedics and similar know

(02:43):
people would.
We were doing 14 hour shiftsand it was just told just to
keep going and just get on withit.
Like being a paramedic ischallenging and especially at
that time.
I mean I'm guessing it wouldstill be very similar now.
We're so short staffed and theywere just putting pressure on
us so you'd have a radio andthey would just ping you like
why are you still at hospital?
Why are you doing this?
Why are you not to the nextpage?

(03:03):
Why is it taking you so long todo this?
And they were just constantlyon you and you'd go to the
bathroom and you'd just beconstantly tagged and it was
just ongoing stress.
You just didn't have a minuteto take a breath.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
How did you manage that, lauren?
Because, as you were sayingthat I'm getting anxious, as
you're saying, I'm gettingpinged here, I'm going to the
bathroom, I'm getting pingedhere, I'm going to the bathroom,
I'm getting pinged For me.
I'm just like far out.
Can you talk me through whatwas going through your mind
every time you get that buzz?

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, I think, because obviously the job's
quite stressful and you're goingto different scenarios and I
was such a brand new paramedic.
So I think naturally you putpressure on yourself because you
want to perform and I'm a highperformer and I know I get in my
head at times that I want toperform at the best that I can
and I want to show them, mycolleagues, that I belong there
and that I am a great paramedic,right?
So I already had that pressure.
So, going into scenarios, youknow my brain's already switched

(03:53):
on and it has to be anyway,because you're going into houses
in different community settingsthat can be potentially quite
dangerous.
So as soon as you walk throughthe door your cortisol and
adrenaline is through the roofand you're having to be on and
focused the whole time andsituations can change in seconds
and you have to be ready withyour equipment, with your drugs
and medications and you have toknow exactly how much you're

(04:13):
administering.
It's just so much that's goingon and delegating tasks to other
paramedics and listening to theleaders if there's some there,
you know higher up paramedicsand then I think when you drop
the patient off and you justwant to take a moment to
decompress.
It's hitting your adrenalineand everything again, because
you're just not getting thatmoment to breathe.
And it wasn't too far in.
I thought I can't do this thatlong Like this is crazy.

(04:36):
You know as much as we'reputting our lives on the line
and we're putting our health onthe line, we're also not allowed
from the system and theorganization to actually take a
minute to look after ourselvesand look after each other.
Yeah, it was like we're gettinghit by both ends.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
It's crazy, as you're saying that I'm thinking about,
how can I relate that to everyeven in my own life?
And I'm just thinking of, likeweight training, for example
you're under pressure whereyou're hitting some reps, but
you always take your rest period, and then that's during the
shift, during the session, andthen you take time off after,
where you get to recover.
And it doesn't sound like.
From your experience in theworkplace you didn't get that,

(05:12):
and I know a lot of workplacesdon't give people the moment to
decompress, gather theirthoughts and then come back in a
, I guess, more recharged andre-energized position to do so.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yeah, absolutely, and recovery is so important.
I think it's something that canbe really overlooked and I love
the analogy that you use Luckyin the terms of the gym, and I
think people can relate to thatand we talk on high-performing
sports and endurance athletesand you look at people like
LeBron James and recovery is soimportant for him.
He prioritizes recovery aboveeverything else.

(05:46):
He probably has the leastamount of time on the court
actually practicing compared toother people in his field, but
he performs at a higher standardand he's better than everyone
else because he prioritizesrecovery and spends so much time
and money on actually makingsure that his mind and body is
fully recovered and ready to goagain.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
That's such a good point and for me that raises
like intensity versus maybe,consistency.
I think when you're a bull outof a gate, especially starting
in a new career and I noticedthis a lot, especially in a lot
of the men that I work with wewant to prove ourself, and I
think just people in general.
You mentioned it, lauren youwanted to prove yourself to your
colleagues, so you're preparedto go above and beyond and just

(06:29):
the intensity in which you wereworking and what you were doing
wasn't sustainable for the longrun.
Yet it's probably expected, asyou sort of maybe started easing
up, people are going hey, whatare you doing?
Like you aren't doing what youwere doing, or are you okay
because your work ethic's not ashigh?
And it's like, yeah, I'm notokay, I'm freaking tired man,
like I need a breather and it'sjust become expected.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
Yeah, absolutely Became the norm, I think, to
just keep going.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, and that's the thing.
It's almost like that internalbattle.
It is expected, but at the sametime, is it expected that you
run yourself to the ground?
And I think that's the linewhere you know it's starting to
shift in workplaces now, butit's shifting so slowly, not at
the rate that we need to, andyeah.
So I think that's why you knowone of the big reasons why we're

(07:18):
here and making noise in thisspace to say, hey, we've got to
make this line move quicker toensure that we're looking after
Australians and literally theentire world.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
Because the problem is when you suffer from
something like burnout, it cantake you so long to bounce back
or to fully recover and it'ssomething that can play on for
years.
Your immune system's taking sucha hit, so you're so susceptible
to getting health issues inthat way.
But then also chronic healthissues, because stress chronic
stress is putting pressure onyour system as your body right,

(07:49):
like your heart and yourcardiovascular system, and I saw
it in the community and youtalk to people and you'd be like
, wow, you know you're in yourforties or fifties and you're on
a medication list as long asyour arm and you're thinking
what is going on?
And if you think about it, it'sbecause of all the stress that
they're under like financialstress, work stress, family
stress and it just builds andall areas of their life is
building this high level ofstress and your body can't take

(08:12):
that.
That is not natural.
And then they get put onmedication and then they have to
be put on another medication tocounteract the side effects of
that medication.
Then it's just an ongoingeffect and now they're on like
50 medications.
It's insane.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
A walking pharmacy and I'd love to come back to
talking about some strategiesaround that.
But first, jason, I guess aswell one thing that stood out
for me about your story you wereactually working with young
children right, so you'reinfluencing and shaping the
direction of the next generation, which is such an important job
and such a really.
I think from my experiencetalking to teachers, it's not

(08:47):
recognized enough just howimportant it is.
You realized along the way thatthe leadership and how you were
leading yourself wasn't goingto be sustainable, and probably
those young children arewatching you go through burnout
and the stresses.
So for you.
In that experience you said youhad other colleagues walk in
and break down in front of you,but was there a personal moment

(09:07):
where you realized thatsomething had to change for you?

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, great question.
I think you know you touched onme teaching the next generation
and I was teaching the realyoung ones.
So I was teaching prep, yearone, year two, which is that
modeling phase.
You know these children, whenthey're between zero and seven,
they're like sponges.
Whether we know it or not, theyare absorbing absolutely
everything the way that we showup, the way you know obviously,

(09:31):
what we're teaching them, butthe way we're interacting with
other adults as well, they'reabsorbing all that information.
So when you know we're at ourwit's end, we're stressed, we're
exhausted and the students andthe next generation are seeing
that.
They're thinking, oh, that'sthe normal way, that's how we
interact with other people.

(09:51):
And I saw it when I was, youknow, as a teacher, particularly
when it was coming to that endof term, when we've got to get
all the assessments done, thereport cards need to be written
and obviously the teacher stresslevels are rising as well.
The stress levels in theclassrooms were also rising from
the students and they didn'tknow why.
They were just following along.

(10:15):
They thought it was normal.
That, to me, was probably thebig eye opener.
I was like, okay, you know,that's when we're sort of it's a
snowball effect.
You know I'm showing up as thisstressed human being, but now
I'm infecting almost 30 youngindividuals in front of me with
this stress.
And to me that was, I thought,a moment where I went okay, I've
got to take a step back.
But then at the same time, Isaw my colleagues burning out.

(10:35):
But I would come home and seeLauren, who was burning out from
a paramedic as well.
She would come home from ashift absolutely exhausted.
Fair enough, it may have been a12-hour shift, but then she had
a couple of days off and shewasn't recovering.
So it was that point where Isaw okay, my colleagues are
going through this, lauren'sgoing through this as well.
Something's got to shift,because it's not just in
education, it's not just in thehealthcare profession.

(10:57):
It was.
Then, you know, you'd starttalking to friends who are in
completely other industries andthey're going through something
similar, or they've gotcolleagues going through
something similar.
I thought, okay, this is almostlike a silent pandemic, almost
there's things happening andit's like what is Australia
doing about this?
And I thought that's where itwasn't such a personal for me,

(11:18):
but it was more of a okay, I'mseeing everyone else going
through this.
I don't want to go through this.
There know, there's that greatquote where you become the sixth
person of the five people youhang around the most with.
I don't want to be that youknow stressed out, burnt out
person.
You know I love being thathappy, positive, vibe as much as
I can, and if I'm stressed,burnt out, exhausted, depressed,
I'm not going to be able to dothat.

(11:39):
So that was sort of that linein the sand.
It wasn't such a personal storyfor me, but it was more of the
impact that I'm seeing withother people around me.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
It shows that you care, like to me.
It shows how much compassionand empathy you have for people,
and the desire to sorry thefact that you uprooted a career
that you'd studied for and wereobviously passionate about to
solve a bigger issue takes aspecial kind of person.
So for you to be able to dothat's really impressive.
To then obviously that quoteyou just used you're the sixth

(12:10):
person of the five that youspend the most time around.
The beautiful thing about youstepping up and, I guess,
putting your hand up.
You were then able to influencethe five other people that
you're surrounding yourselfaround because you took, I guess
, responsibility orself-leadership to direct the
quality of your life and thequality of life of other people.
So just them seeing what you'retalking about, them watching
how you're conducting yourself,that maybe you know doing things

(12:32):
differently in therelationships.
It's like they're going tostart modeling your behavior as
well.
I know it's not like when we'resuper young and we're like
sponges, but we still do pick upthose things because I can
imagine there are friends andcolleagues in your life for both
of you who may not say thingsto you, but they watch and
they're constantly taking awaythese things on how they can

(12:53):
improve their relationship,whether it's because of stress
management and all of thosethings.
So I'd love to ask obviouslyyou're both in the space, you're
a couple, so how did you Iguess, as you're starting to
think about this consciouslywhat were some things that you
did to make sure it improvedyour relationship and you
weren't bringing that workstress home?

Speaker 3 (13:13):
So is this before WPWI, when we were going through
the burnout phase?
Is that what you mean?

Speaker 1 (13:18):
Let's do a before and after.
I think that'd be cool to seethe contrast.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Before and after.
Yeah, okay, If we can yeah?
I'm thinking if.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
I went back to before , I probably, to be honest, had
not much of an idea of why youknow why we were so head-butting
each other.
And it wasn't until I startedto really dive into some study
around this where I realized, ohokay, this is why.
But before it was definitelyhead-butting, I was taking work

(13:47):
home and doing it from home.
Lauren was coming homeexhausted and I was like, well,
what is this?
And we ended up almost livinglike two roommates and then it
was in some points it was likeships in the night.
We wouldn't see each other fora couple of days because of
Lauren's shifts and things.
So yeah, beforehand it was alot of head-butting, not
realizing why we're like this.
You know, where did that sparksort of go?

(14:08):
That relationship sort of diedoff.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
I don't know if you want to add anything to that, I
think it's hard when you've gotnothing left in the tank to be
able to give to other people aswell.
Like if you can't give foryourself and have that energy
there, then you've got no energyfor anyone around you.
And I think in a relationshipdynamic because you feel fairly
safe to be open and quite rawand honest with your emotions it
can seem like quite intense.
And I know that I personallycan be quite intense with my

(14:33):
emotions in terms of like I canflick from one emotion to the
other.
But then back then I think Ihad no level of awareness about
emotional regulation or nervoussystem regulation at all.
So I've just come home and kindof Jason would be my outlet,
which I know isn't fair, but Ithink it's easier.
Hey, when you've only got thatone person when you come home
and you've bottled it up all daybecause you've been told to

(14:55):
just keep going and you've nothad a moment to decompress that
you're my decon.
But it ends up being quiteintense and I think after a
while that can wear thin on therelationship, because you're not
meant to be my counselor asmuch as you're meant to be
someone I can lean on, butyou're not meant to be the only
person that holds everything.
And also back then, gosh, wewere so young and I think we'd
not really stepped into personaldevelopment or done any of this

(15:17):
kind of work, so our level ofawareness about anything was so
low and we weren't really onthis health conscious journey
either as much as we wereinterested.
But I was heavily in theWestern medicine world back then
so I was kind of it wasactually really strange, being
honest, I felt like I was splitinto two, that I had this sort
of holistic, spiritual part ofme that I had to shut down to

(15:38):
then be a paramedic in theWestern world.
That's how I felt, and I kindof kept some of that secret that
I like to dive into some ofthose sorts of things.
But I thought that doesn'tquite align with who my identity
is at the time and so it wasvery much Western medicine.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
But, yeah, we didn't have the awareness that we do
now and we didn't have theknowledge and the skills.
Like, I remember going to apersonal development and meeting
this guy and he started talkingabout masculine and feminine
energy and I was like what onearth are you talking about?
But then once I actually got toknow him yeah, once I actually
got to know him and he explainedit a little bit more I went
okay, I totally get it.

(16:13):
I can see why we're headbuttinghere, because it was that the
polarity was completely off andwe won't go into masculine and
feminine energy now, but it was.
That was a big turning pointfor me to be able to go okay, I
actually need to step into theman who I need to be, to show up
for myself, but then show upfor Lauren.
And now the business as well.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
But then I was in my masculine a lot too, because I
wanted to take control ofsomething that I was so out of
control and I didn't have thespace or time to actually
decompress and be able to be inmy feminine and feel safe, like
my nervous system didn't feelsafe at all.
So how can I be in my feminine,and that just affects the
relationship a lot.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
So powerful those things, and for those listening
along who are, I guess, wantingto dive deeper, a really good
book that's helped me and a lotof people that I'm friends with
is the Way of the Superior man.
That really breaks that down.
I felt like that gave me aroadmap into Amy's mind and I
was like, wow, this isincredible and also helped me
understand myself a lot, soreally recommend that book there

(17:10):
as well.
What about now?
So obviously, fast track.
You've done a bit of thepersonal development.
You've got, I guess, stresslevels under control and I know,
once again, there's alwaysseasons where the stress will
come back in.
But what do you do differentlywithin the relationship to help
it thrive?

Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, I think it was important for us to okay.
So we had that moment where wewere both suffering.
And then I to provide a bitmore context, I guess, to you,
lockie, and the listeners I thenhad no menstrual cycles for
eight months and I was sufferingfrom migraines, mood swings,
borderline depression, and itwas a really dark time for me.
And I remember getting bloodtests and brain scans and all

(17:49):
sorts of things done, because mydoctor had no idea what was
going on because, you know, afew months before I had blood
tests and everything was fine.
All of a sudden, I had noestrogen, no progesterone.
It was unreadable.
Yeah, she said my hormones wereworse than a 70-year-old.
That's literally.
I remember her saying that and Iremember coming out of that
Doctors, it was insane and Istarted crying.
I was like, wow, I'm 23 andI've never been so scared that

(18:12):
I'm out of control with myhealth, because I believe if you
don't have your health, youhave nothing.
And I was really quite worried.
I was I have no idea what'sgoing on my doctor's confused
and I was talking to my brotherat the time because he's in
Holistic Health, he's a CzechInstitute trained practitioner
Amazing, yeah.
And he was like, wow, okay, loz, like if you don't do something
about this, it's scary, becausewhere can this spiral to?

(18:34):
And I just remember him sayingthat and looking at me going I'm
worried about you and I feellike you need to make a change,
because where is this going togo?
And I thought, wow, okay, ifthis gets worse, that's really
scary, because I'm alreadypretty bad.
So it was at that moment whereI thought, okay, I need to make
a change because I'm, yeah,really worried where this can go

(18:55):
and I don't want to go throughextra health issues that I'm,
yeah, really worried where thiscan go and I don't want to, you
know, go through extra healthissues that I'm already going
through now.
So I turned to yoga andmeditation and started diving
into sort of holistic health.
And it was that point where,like you said, jase, you know,
when you start to see things,you can't unsee it.
So once I started to see thesystem and the sort of
brokenness and the suffering andthe pain that was happening

(19:15):
within communities and alsowithin my colleagues, I thought
I need to, yeah, step away, makea change.
So I became a yoga teacher andthat's actually how I started,
so I didn't actually jumpstraight into wpwi.
I think there's a bit of a gapthere.
But I just worked on myself forages.
You know worked.
We went into personaldevelopment.
We did heaps of events like fullpersonal development junkie for

(19:37):
like 12 to 18 months just sortof ripping ourselves apart, but
in a beautiful way, and youstepping away from teaching me,
stepping away from my career andgoing.
Let's just break away thelayers, let's start from the
foundations and build ourselvesback up, because we don't
actually like who we've become,we don't actually like how we
show up every day, we don't likeour habits.
Something's wrong here fromdeep within, and I believe that

(20:05):
a lot of the burnout and thestress, as much as it's an
environmental thing and anexternal thing, it's very much
an internal thing.
It's like what is the mindsetaround this that is creating the
stress?
The lack of boundaries, thelack of the thoughts of of, yes,
I've got to show up perfect andI've got to get everything
perfect, and that's puttingpressure on you.
There's so much around whatcreates stress and burnout.
So I think going into thatpersonal development, ripping

(20:26):
ourselves apart, has now helpedus.
now to build the level ofawareness, because without
awareness you can't createchange and we're so much more
aware now of our nervous systemsand our mindset and everything
along with that, whereas beforewe had no awareness.
And I think now we've got ourown practices and we keep
ourselves as healthy as possibleand we've got health coaches

(20:48):
and we've got mentors in ourspace around different things,
whereas we never had any mentorsbefore.
So I think that's helped us too.
And we worked with that guy youspoke about right, his name's
todd.
He's actually speaking at theconference and we worked with
him for 12 months on just us asa couple, as a relationship, not
business, not anything else,because we're so good at that,
especially now it's like let'shire a business mentor and we've

(21:09):
got all this business strategyand it's like, okay, but if,
especially as we're in businesstogether, if we don't work on
our relationship, the businesswill fail and as much as we
thrive as a couple, our businesswill thrive even more.
It goes hand in hand.
So we worked with him for 12months on, yeah, masculine,
feminine energy, but alsolimiting beliefs, mindset,
nervous system regulation andall these different things.

(21:30):
I think that's helped us nowbecause you can show up
different and better andunderstand me and I can
understand you and ourcommunication is so much better.
Even you know we have moments,of course, but then we go.
Okay, we know what to do now,like, and then we sort of laugh
about it.
It's different.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
I think yeah, to summarize what Lauren was saying
.
Then, to come back to yourquestion, you know what do we do
as a couple to ensure thatwe're thriving.
I think, first of all, it wasthe awareness.
You know we're now aware ofwhere each other's triggers are
and where our emotions are, likeboth of us.
So I'm aware of my emotions,but I'm also aware of Lauren's
emotions and we know what to doin those sorts of times.

(22:08):
So if I can see that Lauren'sgoing into a stress state, it's
like, okay, I need to pull backhere a little bit and I need to
go to Lauren and go okay, whatcan I do to support you through
this?
And it's just those littlequestion techniques.
It was definitely find a mentorto help with our relationship
that was another big one butalso just little things that
we've implemented.
So, instead of you know, we'reobviously we're working on the

(22:29):
business, but then there's timesit's okay, we're now switching
into relationship mode.
So, for example, everyWednesday night now we don't
work on business, we don't openthe computer.
It's time where we can connectand it might be playing a board
game, it might be doing a puzzle.
It's something completelyrandom that we don't normally do

(22:49):
.
But it's that time to connectand time to talk about us and
our dreams as a couple, ratherthan the business and what we do
.
So that's probably the three orfour main things.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
I love that.
That was so cool.
I would imagine, when you'rebreaking yourselves down to
build yourselves or rebuildyourself.
It wasn't as easy as what yousaid.
There would have been obviouslymore head-butting and some
really confronting moments, butyou guys continued to work
through that and were committedto that and I think a lot of
people avoid that.
I know I avoided it for yearsbecause I didn't want to have to

(23:23):
accept certain things aboutmyself and how I was showing up.
I just wanted to put my head inthe sand so I'd turn to alcohol
.
I love that you guys did thattogether.
I think that's so powerfulbecause a lot of couples grow
apart.
You guys grew together andyou're only going to be better
for that because of thatexperience, that's for sure.

(23:44):
Why do you think burnout is?
You know you guys are obviouslyhosting events and we'll talk
about the big event coming upand you're speaking to a lot of
people in business.
But why do you feel burnout andI guess stress across the
workplace is becoming such a bigproblem in so many industries?
I think because as human beings.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Now, with so much technology and so much noise
around, we struggle to switchoff.
You can pick up your phone andyou can have a look at your
emails.
You can have a look at yourtext messages.
You can get online on socialmedia and see what everyone else
is doing as a you know, a humansociety.
I feel like that's one of thebiggest things, and I'm saying

(24:25):
this because you know I still dostruggle with, you know,
notifications on my phone.
It's like oh, there's another,another ding.
I wonder what that is attention, and there's a study that's
been done where it's, andthere's a study that's been done
where it's.
You know, if you're on a taskand then you get distracted, it
takes 20 or so minutes to getback to that one task.
It's just yeah it's 23 minutes.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
I think yeah, it's crazy, crazy.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
So to me, I feel like that's probably one of the
biggest things.
You know, we get drawn at allhours of the night, you know, if
we're sending emails at aridiculous time, whoever is
going to get that email is goingto get distracted and go.
Oh okay, I should maybe respondto this.
Or, if they don't respond,they're thinking about it
unconsciously.
They're going to sleep thinkingabout that email that they've

(25:08):
just read and then when they getup, they go why am I so
exhausted?
You know and they probablydon't even realize that they've
been ruminating about that emailor about that notification,
whatever it might be, for alittle while.
So for me, that's probably oneof the biggest things.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
It's a really interesting question because I
feel like there's a lot to itand, at the same time, I think
it depends on who you speak to.
I think some people would go,you know, oh, we're stressed as
a society because we just keepgoing and there's so much to do
and the workload's really highand all of this sort of stuff,
you know.
But I believe it's acombination of things.

(25:42):
I think there's a lot of stuffaround the mindset and around
limiting beliefs, like I touchedon before, that really creates
this level of stress.
Like why are you not creatingboundaries, which is touching on
what Jason's saying because, asmuch as it's, it's both right.
The organization needs to haveproper policies and protocols
around protecting their staff ahundred percent, but at the same

(26:03):
time, the individual also needsto set boundaries, also needs
to be able to have a voice, and,as much as that's challenging,
I think it's a lot of internalwork that needs to happen for
you to be able to feel that youcan speak up and that you have
these difficult conversations,that you know what you
conversations, that you knowwhat you value and you know what
you stand for and you stick tothat rather than be a pushover.
There's a lot of people pleasinghappening in the workplace.

(26:24):
I think jason saw it a lot,especially as teachers, as if
people pleases as a whole.
If I'm honest like I'm justgoing to be complete, rip the
band-aid off, it's true, and Ithink we have these really cool
conversations when we're doingour networking events and it's
amazing what you hear, andbecause we've been doing the
work for a little while now I'mnot saying we're perfect,
nowhere near, but we've got alot of awareness you start
hearing what comes out ofpeople's mouths and you go

(26:46):
people pleasing okay,interesting like why are you
doing that?
okay, that's not your, that'snot your workplace problem,
that's a you problem and it'sreally interesting.
I think people can put a lot ofblame on the organizations.
I'm saying that there'sdefinitely work there, but
there's also a lot of work thatneeds to happen in the rewiring
of people's brains because ofthe way we've been brought up.

(27:06):
From other generations thatpeople were brought up to just
go to work, put your head down,get on with it, not say anything
, and maybe that was okay backthen.
But the different generationswent through different things.
We're talking post-war and allof the things that they had to
do to survive and get through it.
Now it's different, butunfortunately, you know, it's
been passed on to generations tojust be a doormat and to be

(27:27):
okay with certain things and tobe on all the time.
And it's okay to do overtimeand have your phone switched on.
All these things.
It's not.
I think that puts a lot ofstress on people.
But then also, like you touchedon lucky, a lot of people turn
to coping mechanisms.
They don't want to face howthey feel.
They don't want to face theiremotions.
They want to bury it inscrolling on their phone, on

(27:48):
drinking alcohol, on partying,on hanging out with the wrong
people, on watching the news,which is just filling our brains
with even more global stressnow, which is not normal.
We shouldn't know what'shappening on the other side of
the world.
You know, many years ago wewouldn't actually know and
that's putting a lot of stress.
You know, we went throughmassive global stress only a few
years ago, if you think aboutit, and that's still having an

(28:09):
effect on people's nervoussystems.
So I think there's a lot of workthat people need to do within
themselves, but also inorganisation.
Work that people need to dowithin themselves, but also an
organization looking after yourhealth.
I mean in general, like if yourinternal world in terms of
health, in terms of sleep, food,nutrition, movement, mindset,
nervous system is good, you canincrease your stress threshold.

(28:30):
So it takes a lot longer foryou to be able to you know and
get to, for you to be able toknock over the other side.
I'm not coping anymore.
It takes you so much more youcan have more get to for you to
be able to knock over the otherside and go.
I'm not coping anymore.
It takes you so much more youcan have more capacity to do
more, hold more responsibility,lead bigger teams, without
getting to that point of burnout.
If your internal world, ifyou're already on shaky ground,

(28:51):
you can't really do much withthat.
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah, it's like building a house, like you're
not going to go and build ahouse on sand, you know.
I mean, yeah, it's likebuilding a house, like you're
not going to go and build ahouse on sand where the water is
going to come up to it.
You're going to build thathouse on a solid foundation.
And I think that's at WPWI.
We work with the business, butthen we also work with the
individual as well to ensurethat they are setting themselves
up on that solid ground.
We implement a wellbeingstrategy alongside their or

(29:15):
inside almost their businessstrategy, but then we're also
working with the individuals atthe same time, because we
believe that empowered peoplecreate empowered organizations.
So if we can empower thisperson, that they're going to
show up better, they're going todo better work, they're going
to be more productive, they'regoing to show higher performance
, they're going to want to stayat this workplace because

(29:35):
they're empowered and they areempowered.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yeah, and I think putting your health first,
talking about healthy habits andall these sorts of things are
normal in the workplace, insteadof talking about how busy you
are, how much work you've got todo, how stressed you are, how
you've got to take this workhome, how it's affecting your
family time and all these sortsof things that becomes the norm
in an environment.
Of course, that's a stressedout workplace.
Instead of going, hey, Iactually had time off and I

(29:59):
turned my notifications off andI felt amazing and I did this
breathwork session or I did asauna session, or I'm now
starting up running, likethere's just a completely
different dynamic.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
And it's just, you know, lucky.
I know that your audience is alot of you know, men and
potentially even business ownersin the room.
When we take a break from ourown business, we switch off all
of our notifications and we'rejust connecting with ourselves,
connecting with each other,connecting with the environment
around us.
We make more money.
The business always thrivesbetter when we take that step

(30:30):
back.
So imagine if your employees,if there's any CEOs listening
take that step back.
What's going to happen to yourbusiness?
All I can see is projectingupwards.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
That's the mic drop right there.
So, firstly, you guys explainedthat so well.
Obviously you've got thepersonal or the person involved,
but then the workplace, and Ithink it's important to empower
both, but then also bring thesynergies together, which is
what you guys do with the workthat you do to create that
thriving workplace.
And obviously, if it's nothappening, there will be

(31:03):
individuals out there who aresuffering with their mental
health and their lifestyle mightbe falling apart because of
work, stress, financial stress,all the stresses that you
mentioned earlier and same withthe business.
If you don't have great cultureand a resilient team and
everything for them to thrive,it's like your profits aren't
going to be as good.
And I did have the stat but Ican't find it now of how much

(31:24):
Australian businesses are losingevery year because of workplace
burnout.
It's crazy.
So it makes sense to slow down,in my opinion, work with
someone like you guys and getthe strategies in place to
uplift not only your team andyour people, but your business
and organization as a whole.
There was one question that cameup for me when you guys were
talking there, and it was whenyou were mentioning like you

(31:44):
turn your phone off, yournotifications off, and you take
time and your business grows.
One thing I personally strugglewith is taking that time away
through my mind.
I'm like, oh, what if I losemomentum, or what if I become
irrelevant, or what if I misssomething?
And that is one of the, I guess, the thought processes that
goes through my mind and I thenjust convince myself to keep

(32:05):
working, and it happens moreoften than not and it's
something that I'd love to beable to stop doing.
Is there anything that you guyshave found that can help with
that?
A way Can I go?

Speaker 3 (32:17):
on that.
I got a question first.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Okay, what if we were just to reframe that question?
You just said what if I start?
What if I lose momentum?
What if we were to flip thataround and you change it to what
if I could gain momentum bytaking a couple of days off?
Now, you know, if I just paused, take a breath and go okay,
let's go again I could almostguarantee and I am going to

(32:40):
guarantee it you're going tohave more energy and more
momentum afterwards.
You know, if you close that youknow, say you know, by the end
of this week I'm going to getall my work done, I'm going to
get all the tasks done, becauseonce that's done, I've got a
couple of days off where we'regoing to go away for a couple of
days.
Then when you come back thefollowing week, you'll be more
motivated to keep going.

(33:00):
You will get better downloads.
You will get you know betterideas.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
Look, he's looking so resistant right now.
He's kind of ventilating.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
I'm just like how easy you changed it with the
reframe in my mind.
I'm like, yeah, it makes sense.
It's like just be optimisticand test it, because we're
always testing stuff right.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Exactly, and that's going to be.
You know, I'm always when Ihear someone say it, I will
always reframe something and youknow, just like you just did,
it's like, oh shit, maybe, maybe, but it also calls me on my
bullshit.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
That's what I didn't like.
I think when Lauren, you thinkwhen Lauren, you're like I feel,
look resistant, it's like yeah,well, you, just you took away
that excuse that.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
I had to keep working .
Well, I think it's an oldschool mentality that's been
passed down like.
Once again, I keep saying that.
But and it's just interestingon because it's something that I
have on and off battled withtoo lucky so I totally get where
you're coming from and I thinkit's that high performing
mindset.
But it's also old-schoolmindset of one hour equals one
hour of productivity and that'sa load of BS because you keep

(34:02):
going right.
It's like a car and you keepdriving.
One day that car is going tobreak down.
It's going to take you so muchlonger to repair to then be able
to get back on the track and onthe road and keep going again.
If you keep going in yourbusiness, you're going to burn
out one day.
Then you're going to losemomentum for three months or
more.
Lockie, that's the problem.
So if you have micro breaks intimes of recovery, you'll

(34:24):
prevent that from happening.
So that's one Also, too, withthe mindset.
I find that when we think, whatif I lose momentum?
What if I lose an opportunity?
What if I miss out on something?
That's scarcity.
That's a scarcity mindset.
That's the belief that if Itake 10 minutes away, there's
opportunities coming that I'mmissing and I've actually really
worked on this recently and Ithink with the business mentor

(34:47):
that we have now.
She really teaches that theright opportunities come at the
right time and I do believe thatI feel like you speak to the
right person at the right timeand it all starts to align.
If that opportunity is not rightfor you because your nervous
system can't take it maybe yourlife's so busy right now you can
only handle so much.
You've got a plate.
You can only fill it with somuch food, right, and if you

(35:08):
start to overfill it, thenyou're going to spill out.
It's going to affect yourrelationships, your business,
your money, your income, yourbusiness, your money, your
income and all these otherthings.
So just accept that thatopportunity is perfect, but I
don't want any more.
And it's like us with businessright now it's like, okay, we're
busy planning the big event,We've got these other smaller
events, we've got a few otherthings happening.
That's really my plate almostfull, like there's only a little
bit more that we can have rightnow.

(35:29):
We've got some speakingengagements.
You're emceeing a lot at themoment.
That's it and we're happy withthat.
And I think it's not havingthat scarcity mindset of like
I'm gonna miss out and and youknow there's already enough for
enough people the rightopportunity will come at the
right time.
Your mind, your nervous system,reflects on the opportunities
that come in.

(35:50):
If you're in a scarcity nervoussystem, if your nervous system
shaky, you won't attract theopportunities in the first place
.
You need to breathe, you needto rest.
Then you can expand.
I think that's where some ofthe success that we're having
recently is because we have beenable to decompress our nervous
system, regulate so, becauseyou're going a bit woo, woo, but
your nervous system, you know,your frequency goes up when you

(36:11):
rest and you're in um of a love,joy, fulfillment, mindset and
feeling, rather than scarcity.
I need, I need, I need, I need,I need, I need, I need.
It's like okay, that's a lowvibration, that is dense
frequency, right.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, and I suppose you know we talk about seasons a
lot and even in the you knowthe business world, they talk oh
yeah, I'm in a sprint season.
At the moment I'm sprinting.
My question to anyone who is ina season of sprinting is okay,
when does that season come to anend?
You know we don't have summerall year round, we don't have
winter all year round, for areason.

(36:46):
You know you cannot besprinting for 365 days of the
year.
But if you're going into asprint season, my biggest advice
is okay, when does this sprintseason end?
You know, right now I feel likewe're just about to start a new
sprint where we're going into.
We've had a couple of dayswhere it's okay, where you know

(37:06):
we've gone back to a fast walk,maybe a jog, and now we're ready
to pick it up again.
You know, ready to pick up thesprint, ready for the next
season.
But is this season going tolast for the rest of the year?
No, it's not.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
It might last for 30 days, it might last for 60 days
max, and then we'll taper backdown, back to a jog, back to a
fast walk, whatever that is, andI'm not overly big on sprints,
like I used to be, but I thinkI'm more about sustainable
growth and I think keep runningand stopping running and
stopping it's not sustainable.
I'd rather enjoy the journeyrather than just keep going and

(37:37):
pushing.
If it was like pushing aboulder uphill, I'd rather just
really enjoy it.
Attract what we're meant toattract, keep consistent and
showing up, but that's differentto like rushing and sprinting
all the time.
I feel like sustainable growthand I think that's what's helped
us in the two years of businessand why we're seeing the growth
and momentum now is because ofthe consistency and we didn't

(37:58):
burn ourselves out and we had tostop and I think people go in
this cycle of like push, push,push, burnout, stop yeah oh my
gosh, I need to recover, I needto take two weeks off, I need to
go on holiday, I need a breakyou know what I mean, but it's
all about becoming aware.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
You know, if you are in that sprint season, okay, now
it's that time to slow down.
It's not stopping.
We're still walking,essentially we're still going at
a jog speed, but it's slowingdown because that is not
sustainable.
Like you said, that sprint.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Within that awareness you built, how did you, I guess
, gain an understanding of howbig your plate is?
Because I could imagine there'ssome blokes or people listening
to this and they're like myplate's never ending.
I can deal with it, even though, because their stress threshold
maybe they've been running atthat burnout point for decades

(38:46):
because they've never learnedabout rest and recovery.
So that's just them.
How would you know, when you'resort of getting to that point
of burnout, if someone's on theedge of it?
Now, what would be, I guess, away to identify that and some
steps to recovery, so to speak?

Speaker 3 (39:02):
I think, looking like .
We spoke about looking at yourhabits.
So you know how do you act whenthe doors are closed.
Are you scrolling on your phone?
Are you drinking alcohol?
What are you talking about?
What are you listening to?
Because that sort of reflectson what's happening in your
nervous system and internalworld.
What are you trying to avoid?
Are you suppressing something?
Because, yeah, when you are go,go, go and you think that I

(39:22):
thought this only a couple ofyears ago I'm so capable, I can
handle anything, and it's like,oh, actually I feel quite, you
know, and then it catches upwith you and only about eight
months ago I was suffering frompanic attacks and anxiety again
and I was like, whoa, where didthis come from?
It just hit me like a bus, itwas so random and I thought,
well, that's really interestingand it's because I thought I can

(39:43):
just keep going, I can handlethis, my plate's huge.
And then it will hit you all ofa sudden with something.
And I think the signs are thatyou don't switch off very easily
.
You don't take moments toregulate your emotions or even
tap into how they feel.
You're always scrolling on yourphone, you're addicted to noise
, you're watching TV.
You don't like being in silence.
Maybe you're getting a lot ofheadaches, mood swings, those

(40:05):
sorts of things.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
For me, it's the sleep.
I'll know when I'm going.
Okay, my plate's too full nowbecause my sleep will start to
go off.
It'll take forever to fallasleep.
I'll wake up at weird hours ofthe night.
Where it's not, I don't need togo to the bathroom or anything,
I just wake up and I'm thinking.
Or I'll wake up and I'mstraight away, I'm on and I'm
thinking about you know, I'vegot to do this, this, this, this
, this.

(40:26):
You know, my to-do list is sobig that for me, is a big sign
that, okay, there's got to getrid of something.
So I let go of something thatI've been doing for 11 plus
years, and three days later I'mthinking, three days post, that
it's like, actually, I feellighter already.

(40:46):
And it was just that one thingthat's always in the back of the
mind.
It was literally one.
I would do this thing one houra week as supporting a local
radio station on the Gold Coast,and as I get rid of that, my
head is so much more clear.
Now, already it's just that onehour, but I know, okay, I've
got to do that, I've got to dothat, I've got to do that, I've
got to do that.
Now it's gone, it's like, oh,that's easier.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
So it's just removing that one little.
I shut down my online academy.
It was something similar to youthat I've done for seven years
now, but I was starting to getreally resentful for having to
do it.
It wasn't serving a purpose inmy life anymore and once again I
was sort of one foot in, onefoot out and wasn't showing up
and I'd resisted shutting itdown for four months, five
months, and then it just got tothe point where I was like what

(41:37):
am I doing?
Like this is I guess we speakabout energy and vibration Like
I was just becoming so bitterand so had such a low vibration
around it that it wasn'tvaluable to anyone.
And then I was able to shut itdown and literally the moment
that I did the final call, I wasjust like free, like I'd taken
this 10-kilo weight vest off andI could now run in peace.

(42:00):
What do you feel are some ofthe biggest blind spots that
leaders have when it comes toworkplace well-being?

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Yeah, I think what Lauren was saying before it was
the one hour of work is one hourof productivity.
These days it's not.
You know, COVID showed us thatbig time Working from home is.
You can get a lot more done,but there's also a lot more
distractions.
Yes, I understand that.
Different distractions,Different distractions.
But if I went into an officeand that you told me to sit at

(42:30):
my desk for nine hours or eighthours, whatever it is, and work,
I'm going to be not productiveat all Because I'm going to go.
Oh well, I got eight hours here.
My to-do list is a long, youknow.
Cool, I'm going to scroll, I'mgoing to scroll on Facebook for
a little bit on my computer, soit looks like I'm working or
it's.
You know, I'm going to goonline shopping, whatever it is,
because I know I can get allthis done within this eight

(42:52):
hours.
But if you tell me, okay,you've got this list to do in
four hours, Okay I'm on becauseI know after that four hours I'm
free, I can do what I like.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Yeah, and I think that's the biggest shift at the
moment that we're we're seeinggoing through as well.
Yeah, I think the organizationsthat are thriving, uh,
recognizing that and you know,switching to things like, um,
you know, four day work week orsomething you know, switching to
things like you know a four-daywork week or something you know
.
We've spoken to organizationsrecently that are doing that and
some are in fear of that.
They're like how can you stillproduce the right amount of
money, how can you maintain yourclient base, and all those

(43:27):
sorts of questions.
But then the otherorganizations that have
implemented it, they're like itworks so well because we've cut
the bullshit.
People are not getting up towaste time chatting to their
colleagues over coffee.
They're not wasting timewalking to the bathroom every
two seconds because they'rebored.
They're not scrolling orwasting time on their computer.
They're cracking on and gettingon with it because they want
that extra day off and they'reseeing that the productivity has

(43:49):
actually gone up and therecovery is longer.
So then of course, they comeback on a Monday feeling more
refreshed.
So recovery is longer.
So then of course, they comeback on a Monday feeling more
refreshed.
So these having that mindset,like you said, of switching, the
one hour equals one hour ofproductive work because it's not
.
And, like you said, you know ittakes 23 minutes to come back on
track when you're distractedand offices create a lot of
distraction.

(44:10):
I actually hear people workbetter when they're at home,
sometimes because they're notgetting all the noise from the
office.
You know the tables next tothem, they're on phone calls or
whatever and, yeah, a lot ofdistractions in the office.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
I think another thing that leaders have maybe dropped
the ball on and in fact I'm notsaying maybe, I think they have
, I'm going to throw it outthere they have is mini micro
behaviors, and what I mean bythat is tonality.
You know how are they speakingto their staff.
You know, are they coming at acalm, positive vibe, or are they
yelling at them, saying, youknow, we've got to get this done

(44:43):
, We've got to get this done?
And that could come back tothat scarcity mindset, Little
things like.
Are they praising theiremployees, Whether it's just
through an email, saying hey,great job this week, Whether
it's in a staff meeting, whetherit's, you know, employee of the
month are very tokenistic, Ifind, but for some that's what
works.
And even right down to you couldeven go right down to response

(45:04):
times and emails.
If someone sends, you know, anemail, is the boss sending that
off instantly like a reactive,or is it the opposite of that?
Are they taking way too long torespond to a request?
So there's that happy medium aswell when it comes to emails,
but it's those mini microbehaviors I feel like leaders
have dropped for sure, causingthat blind spot.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
I'd like to add one more.
I know we could do heaps ofthese, but I think leaders and
organizations in general reallythink that the culture will look
after itself, or everyone'shappy here, making assumptions,
not actually knowing how theirworkers are feeling, what's
working, what's not working,what needs to be done.
Not asking those big questionsand just assuming that

(45:47):
everything's fine, not measuringanything, like I said, not
having those chats and justassuming everyone's happy here.
So the culture is fine, theculture just happens on its own
and it's all good not actuallydoing anything about it.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah or it's.
You know, if there's silence on, no one said anything, so
everything must be good.
You know, no news is good news,as they say.
But even like, if you've sentout an engagement survey to
employees, for example, and youget 60% back, you might be
thinking, oh fantastic, 60% haveresponded, everything's great.
What's happening to that other40%?

(46:18):
You've got 40% of your staffwho have decided not to respond
to that survey.
That could be 40% of your staffwho are ready to get up and
leave because they've just hadenough.
So again, it's flipping it andreframing little things, or they
?

Speaker 3 (46:32):
don't trust that the organization is actually going
to do anything with the answersanyway.
That's what happens.
A lot of time we hear they gowell, what's the point of me
filling out this survey oranswering their questions?
Because it's just a token andtick box approach.
They won't do anything with it,nothing ever changes, so why
would I waste my time andactually speak up about it?
So that's also where they'remissing the spot, because we do,
you know, audits and get intothe workplace and find the gaps

(46:55):
where they are with productivityand wellbeing.
But we say to them you have toexplain to your staff why you're
doing it, the importance, havea proper discussion before
actually implementing it, andthen at the end you have to
stick to your word.
You have to do something aboutthe feedback and tell your
workers what you're planning todo and take them on the journey
with you instead of just doingit, ticking the box, moving on,

(47:15):
not doing anything, because it'snot changing anything, and then
you're losing the trust.
It's actually detrimental tothe workplace.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
It's wild and there's some great points there.
I actually was looking at likecase studies of big businesses
especially that wereimplementing things and, as you
mentioned, there were four likecompanies that had introduced
four-day work weeks.
I know from speaking to some ofmy mates who have businesses
with a lot of employees thatthey're a bit resistant because
you know whether it's you knowthey're like traditionally
working seven days a week.
It's like how does that work?
And for me it's like, well,introduce maybe a staff roster

(47:46):
or look at certain things likethat.
But even another one wasLendlease I was reading about.
They had introduced quarterlywell-being days and as a result,
they had a heap of data whichsaw increased engagement and
performance.
And it makes me think, like whyaren't more leaders and
businesses at least testing it,giving themselves a 90-day or

(48:07):
180-day test of it?
Because, as you've said anumber of times, jason, it's
like reframing it.
Yeah, that style of thing thatyou're testing may not work, but
what if it does?
And what if your business doesbecome more productive?
And Brene Brown has a greatquote that I think is directed
at the leaders there.
It's like we can choose courageor we can choose comfort, but

(48:28):
we can't have both, and whenyou're looking to implement
change and implement growth,there is an element of risk and
that means you need to step intothat comfort there.
But I'd love to talk about theevent that you guys have coming
up in September.
I've got so much value, likeI'm amped up from the
conversation that we've had, andI know this is just sort of
scratching the surface of whatpeople can learn at the event.

(48:52):
Can you give us a rundown ofwhat's going to happen?

Speaker 3 (48:56):
I'm so excited for this event.
What?

Speaker 1 (48:58):
can we say, without giving too much away, yeah,
without giving too much away.

Speaker 3 (49:02):
Obviously, Lockie Stewart is one of our amazing
keynote speakers at theconference and I'm really
excited and pumped to have youthere, Lockie.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
It was interesting when we interviewed you last
year on our podcast, as soon aswe came off I was like he's
there, he's going to be one ofthe keynote speakers, 100%,
because you give so much valueand I think you have so much
wisdom and experience workingwith men, but also working with
different people on resiliencemindset and building people up
to reach their potential.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
Leadership as well.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
I'm really excited for you to obviously dive into
that.
But we've got other peoplecoming talking about emotional
intelligence and how you canincrease your emotional capacity
to be able to hold bigger teams, hold yourself, attract more
wealth and more abundance andall those sorts of things that
that person will go through andactually announce that person
yet look by the time thispodcast comes out it's being
announced tomorrow that's true,yeah, so it'll be there I'm
really sure when we wereannouncing her jessica cameron,

(49:54):
so she'll be speaking on that.
She's been on our potty as well.
She's really awesome.
She's worked with so manyleadership teams and corporates
around australia on buildingemotional capacity and that's
such a new way of thinking andit works.
So that's exciting to bringthat in.
But you can continue.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
I think what makes you know, because leaders might
see this as another conferenceyou know.
I've attended conferences allyear.
I walk away with some knowledge, but yeah, okay, this isn't
just you come and a death byPowerPoint.
This is where experts come togive you practical strategies,
experts who have actually walkedthe walk, and they talk the

(50:30):
talk.
It's not just theory, it's apractical session where we'll
get you to do things in the roomso then you can go into your
workplace the next day and go.
This is what we're doing,because I've seen it works.
It works because of this, this,this.
We give you practical, tangibleoutcomes, but also the reasons
why you should be doing that.
So I think there's that mix ofboth.

(50:51):
It's not just a full day ofinformation, it's a full day of
transformation, I suppose.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Yeah, we really wanted this to be a different
event.
So, like Jay said, it's notlike next week, and next week
we'll just keep going.
We're going to cram your brainwith so much knowledge that you
walk away overwhelmed and thenyou create inaction.
We're going to give you whatyou need and give you exactly a
roadmap so you can actuallyimplement that into your life
and into your organization.
If you're a business owner oreven a sole trader, this is good
for you, because you're goingto learn so many tips on mindset

(51:18):
, resilience, emotionalintelligence, mental health, all
those sorts of things.
But it's also good fororganizations and people running
teams, because how can you leada team if you don't have these
sorts of skills?
How are you going to maintainleading high performing, highly
effective teams and actuallykeep them in your organization
if you cannot regulate yourself,show up as a better version and

(51:38):
lead them with capacity andresilience?

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Now this event is probably not going to be for
everyone.
I'm going to put that out there.
It is not for everyone.
You know, if you're thinking Ilike the way that we do things,
I like, you know, thetraditional method, then this
event is probably not going tobe for you.
Because we are creating changemakers in the room.
We're creating people who wantto look after the next
generation, to ensure, when theycome into the workforce, that

(52:04):
they can be seen, heard andvalued that your employees.
Perhaps even when you go backinto the next day, you can go.
I actually value you.
I can actually see that you dothe hard work here and, you know
, last week you said this bit offeedback.
I'm taking that on board andI'm going to do something about
it today.
You know, we don't want thosepeople in the room who are going

(52:24):
yeah, that was good, but not doanything about it.
We're creating change makers tomake Australia a better place
to work.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
Yeah, that was a perfect mic drop moment.
It's got me excited becauseyou've just given us who it's
for, who it's not for, and forthose who are listening, it's
the National Workplace WellbeingConference 2025.
It is Wednesday, september 17thin Brisbane, and one thing that
I would also suggest to peopleis for me you mentioned at the

(52:52):
very beginning, jason, it's likewe're always the six of the
five people we spend the mosttime around.
If you want to elevate yoursocial group and if you hang
around, business owners,entrepreneurs, even people who
lead teams, whatever that lookslike invite them, because people
are always looking for theopportunity to get better.
Yet a lot of people are eithertoo busy to be able to put their

(53:12):
head up to you know, I guess.
Have a quick breath and seewhat's going on around them and
the opportunity that you cancompound your growth by coming
with friends or coming withcolleagues, because when you
leave, you then get to continuethe discussion, you get to hear,
I guess, what you guys havedone really well, as well as the
constant reframes, theperspectives and the insights

(53:33):
that you don't get when you justgo.
Maybe you do it when you goalone, but for me, when I always
take a buddy.
It's like I'll talk about itover dinner afterwards and just
continue going.
I didn't actually think aboutthat, and so the value that you
take away compounds Reallyencourage people to consider
that if you're consideringcoming along.

(53:54):
Obviously all of us would loveto see you there.
I'm going to be there all daybecause I would know that I'm
going to get so much value fromwhat you guys are presenting and
what the other speakers aregoing to deliver, because, like
everyone who's listening to this, I want to be better.
I want to be a better leader, Iwant to create better cultures,
and there's always somethingthat I can learn and implement
in my own life.

(54:16):
Lauren Jason.
Thank you guys so much forcoming on.
Before we wrap up, is there onelast bit of advice that you
would love to leave our audiencewith, and, if not, what would
be one last bit of advice youwould have given to yourself
when you were, I guess, in thatburnt out phase?

Speaker 2 (54:33):
I think there's so much To pick one.
I think, honestly, take thetime for yourself, reflect and
ask yourself where do I want tobe in 5, 10 years' time?
Do I want to be in this spot,where I'm absolutely drained, or
do I want to be thriving, whereI'm absolutely living my best
life?
So take that time to stop,reflect and really think where

(54:54):
do I want to be in five, 10years time?
What state do I want to be in?
That's going to be mine.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
I think one thing is to know that it's not permanent,
that everything's constantlychanging, changing, so I think
that gives people hope ifthey're in a dark space right
now.
And then the other one, I think, is the power of environment
keeping that in your mind,because that's when things
really change for us, when wechange who we're hanging around,
what conversations we're having, because, yeah, like we said,
it's huge.
It will change how your nervoussystem is, how you're feeling,

(55:20):
how you're showing up awesomeand where can everyone find you?

Speaker 1 (55:23):
once, once again, you guys have a podcast, obviously
the events coming up, what arethe links?
And for everyone listening, ifyou are driving or you're doing
something else at the same time,I'll have all the links in the
show notes for you.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Amazing.
You can find us both onLinkedIn.
We're both quite active onthere, such as Lauren McGee or
Jason Marshall, or you can jumpin.
If you want to listen toanother podcast another great
podcast Keep listening to LockieStewart's podcast, of course,
but if you want to jump over tothe Thriving Workplace podcast
as well, where we interviewedLockie Stewart and about, it was
actually just before youembarked on your 58 marathon
journey, so it was really coolto see those insights before

(55:56):
that as well.
So you can go and listen tothat.
Or you can find details aboutthe conference on our website.
It's just wwwpwiorg.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Awesome.
Thank you guys so much for yourtime.
It's been extremely valuablefor me and I look forward to
going back through and takingsome more notes and implementing
some change in my life.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Awesome.
Thanks for having us.