November 10, 2024 • 61 mins
Lachlan and Zak Kuhn explore the layers of Zak's life, from his journey in podcasting to his experiences in the music industry.
They discuss the hustle behind securing high-profile guests like Bobby Bones, the birth of Zak's Nashville Briefing, and the importance of perseverance in the face of doubt.
Zak shares insights on finding contentment and setting ambitious goals, emphasizing the thrill of overcoming challenges and the value of supportive relationships.
He reflects on his personal journey, the sacrifices made for his passion, and the strategies he employs to build a strong network. The dialogue emphasizes the balance between personal fulfillment and professional ambition, highlighting the significance of enjoying the process while striving for growth.
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YouTube: https://youtube.com/@lachlanstuart91
Website: https://themanthatcanproject.com/
Newsletter: https://lachlan-stuart-tmtcp.ck.page/profile
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lachlan Stuart (00:00):
Like I'm very excited.
Are you excited?
Zak Kuhn (00:04):
I'm thrilled.
Lachlan Stuart (00:05):
What do you mean ?
Zak Kuhn (00:07):
I don't like being on this end, though I prefer being
on the interviewing end.
I don't like being interviewed.
Lachlan Stuart (00:12):
That's why I'm so excited, though, because I've
seen and listened to so muchthat you've done and most of the
chats that I've listened towhere you've been on the other
side, it's been more so aboutbusiness and what you do, not
actually who you are like.
Obviously it's an extension ofwho you are, but, like I want
this to be like an episode ofpeeling back layers of onions,
does that?
Zak Kuhn (00:32):
scare you?
No, not really.
I don't know you look veryscared.
You're like crap.
I gotta change the whole topicof the episode.
I'm trying to scare him.
Lachlan Stuart (00:45):
Yeah, man, you started sweating.
I'm an open.
Zak Kuhn (00:48):
Listen first of all.
No, that's just my pits.
I'm an open book here and Iwill talk about anything with
you, lockie, because you bring alot of honesty to your show and
to your adventures and to whatyou do.
So that makes me want to giveit right back to you on this
episode, right here.
Lachlan Stuart (01:13):
So I'm an open book.
I feel like that's like areciprocating, greater
relationship, one where we justgot each other, we get to really
connect.
And I feel like the moment thatwe really connected was on that
road trip, listening to LarryKing going down the Malibu coast
.
That was a moment.
I do think that was a moment.
Yeah, that was a special momentand, for those who are tuning
in, I'm going to come back tothat, but we've got the man, the
(01:34):
myth, the legend, zachary Kahn,on the show.
Zach, thank you so much forbeing here.
Dude, I feel like I've justnabbed an exclusive interview
it's great to be here but wehave to correct.
Zak Kuhn (01:46):
The last name is pronounced kuhn with a u sound.
But most people don't get itright and that's fine.
But but it is great to be hereand I'm thrilled to be part of
the man that can community canyou let that roll off the tongue
one more time?
Lachlan Stuart (02:01):
the k Cune Cune, yeah yeah Cool.
You did a little tongue roll orsomething and I was like that's
very cool.
Zak Kuhn (02:10):
Yeah, Well, you know I'm a cool guy and my tongue
rolls come with that.
Lachlan Stuart (02:17):
But we did have that great road trip that day
and being able to travel withyou.
So, for those who don't know,zach has been playing guitar and
been on tour with us andShepard in the States and it's
been very cool to get to knowyou because we first met in 2022
.
And when Amy and I werevisiting Nashville, we met
(02:37):
yourself through Michael Chase,a mutual friend, and then you
came out to Australia for theCMC Festival and we got to show
around like our local cafe andyou got to meet and enjoy
ipswich, which I know you loved,and, uh, you want to come
desperately back to australia.
Zak Kuhn (02:54):
I can see it in your eyes no, I did have a great time
on that trip.
The only thing with australiais it's just so far, but I'd
want to go to australialiterally my whole life.
I've always been fascinated byit and the thing I find
fascinating about touring withyou guys is that we grew up on
literally I don't think you cangrow up further apart than I
(03:16):
grew up and the Shepard crewgrew up and all of our pop
culture references are sosimilar.
We're all listening to the samemusic and the same shows and I
know it's all kind of likewesternized I guess, or whatever
.
We live in a pretty small worldwith the internet and
everything, but we could havegrown up two houses down from
each other, even though we wereall grown up on opposite sides
(03:39):
of the world.
So to me that's fascinating.
I was dying to get to Australiaand I had an amazing time.
You guys were the best hosts.
You took me everywhere.
Lachlan Stuart (03:49):
It was amazing.
I wish we could do better andwe will do better, but you host
your own podcast.
Why do?
Zak Kuhn (03:54):
you feel that way?
Why do you feel like you?
What do you mean?
You wish you had done better.
Wish you had done better onwhat?
Lachlan Stuart (04:00):
I wish we took you to the islands.
There's so many things we'vespoken about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no you'reright.
Zak Kuhn (04:05):
Actually, you're right .
None of that happened and thatshould happen next time.
Lachlan Stuart (04:10):
Yes, so we will make sure that you get the true
blue Aussie experience of theislands, the four-wheel driving,
the red dirt and seeing some ofthose dogs out there.
That's what you want to do,that's what you really come to
Australia to see, so you can goback to Nashville, you can go
back to New York and really tellthose stories.
That's what we want, so we'llmake that happen.
Next time you're back out here,why don't you venture across the
(04:33):
seas?
But you're the host of the ZachKuhn Show and you've had
incredible guests, notably I'mgoing to start with Shepard,
obviously, but you've had BradPaisley, bobby Bones, colby
Calais, and one of the coolthings when I first met you and
this is one of the things thatfascinates me about you, zach is
, having spent so much time withyou, seeing how much you hustle
(04:54):
and when I say hustle, ladiesand gentlemen, you're a very
motivated individual to achievewhat you're working towards, and
I'll allow you to unpack thatand talk about that in a moment
but when we first met, you werelike I really want this guy on
my podcast.
Actually, I'll let you takethat story of Bobby Bones so I
don't butcher it.
Zak Kuhn (05:15):
So I think Bobby Bones is a very interesting character
because in certain worlds, heis incredibly, incredibly famous
.
In the country music world, heis the Howard Stern of country
music.
He has the biggest morningradio show in America.
He's listened to by millionsand millions and millions of
people every month.
(05:36):
And in a world where radiomeans less and less and country
music radio still carries a lotof weight, and Bobby Bones has a
lot of influence we're talkingprivate jet mega mansion.
I mean, this guy is a big, bigdeal and when I was in college,
I would listen to his radio showevery single morning because I
(05:56):
wanted to move to Nashville andthis is really the personality
behind Nashville.
He represents Nashville and theNashville music industry and I
would listen to his show everymorning because it gave me
insight into Nashville, into theNashville music business, all
of it Really, really, really abig hero of mine.
So I started my podcast in 2020, in the middle of the pandemic.
(06:20):
I'd always done interviews andI hosted a college radio show
and all this other stuff, but Ireally started the podcast in
the pandemic 2020.
Fast forward, I was approachingmy 100th episode of the podcast.
Yeah, and on the 100th episodeof the Bobby Bones podcast, he
makes this statement that Ithink he just pulled out of his
(06:42):
ass.
But he said you're not a realpodcast until you hit 100
episodes, and this is our 100thepisode.
So now I feel like the Bobbycast is a real podcast because
we finally hit 100 episodes, andI had listened to him say that
very much prior to my 100thepisode of my podcast, but I
just remembered that.
(07:03):
So as my 100th episode wasapproaching, I said what if I
got Bobby Bones on the 100thepisode of the podcast to help
make me a real boy?
He was going to be like myGeppetto.
Is that the right character?
Lachlan Stuart (07:17):
reference.
Zak Kuhn (07:18):
Let's keep rolling with it, right.
So he was going to make me areal podcast.
So I had the idea, you know I.
I emailed management.
It's not that hard to get hiscontacts.
You know his manager's contactif you live in nashville.
So I emailed management and, uh, they didn't get back to me.
I followed up probably fivetimes and then I emailed this
(07:38):
publicist and his publicist saidyeah, he's very busy, you know
he's not going to be able to dothis, are you like?
No way.
So then I said, well, I got tomake this.
Really, I have to get creativehere.
I have to get really creative.
So the first thing I did was Ijust took my phone and I made an
Instagram video that said BobbyBones, zach Hewn here, 100th
(08:02):
episode of the podcast.
I'd love to have you come on,but I really made a good pitch,
crickets.
He at the time had released achildren's book and my next move
was to do a live reading of hischildren's book on Instagram.
So I went on Instagram Live,opened the book, did a reading,
said Bobby Bones, come on to theshow, crickets.
(08:23):
My next move was to go on Cameo, the site where you can get
famous people to send youpersonalized videos.
And I said who's the mostfamous country artist on here
that I can find?
It was Carly Pierce.
I asked Carly Pierce to askBobby to come on to the show.
She did.
(08:43):
We threw that up on InstagramCrickets, okay.
And I think I did a couple otherthings too.
Now I have this mentor, who isthis incredibly accomplished
woman in the live entertainmentspace and, with all of her best
intentions, she said to me shesaid I think you should stop
(09:03):
this.
She said this is not a goodlook, it is too eager and it's
desperate and you might piss himoff.
And and she said look, I thinkI think you've gone too far,
it's not gonna work.
And I really took that to heartbecause I didn't want to be the
guy who was begging for bobbybones to come on and then was
(09:24):
going to fail.
I didn't want to do that.
That's lame.
But my gut said I had to do onemore move.
I actually had two more moves,but I was willing to make one
more move.
The final move we made was Itook a billboard out in the
center of Nashville on a verybusy street.
It said Bobby Bones helped theZach Kuhn show become a real
(09:45):
podcast, and I took a photo ofit and the billboard was only up
for about a day because thatwas all I could really afford
and I knew that actually, the Iknew that the act of taking out
the billboard would be moreimportant than the billboard
itself.
Seth Godin has this great quotewhen he talks about pizza and
(10:06):
he says the only differencebetween good pizza and bad pizza
is the inconvenience it is tomake good pizza.
It's incredibly inconvenient.
I think about that too If youthink about great dance routines
or if you go to the ballet.
Why is that entertaining?
Because it is inconvenient toput it together.
Something that is incrediblyinconvenient if you think about
(10:28):
it.
That's usually what we enjoy.
We like seeing inconvenientthings as humans.
That's my theory.
So, the act of taking out thebillboard even though I knew he
probably wouldn't even see thebillboard, I knew it would do
well on social media, because itis so inconvenient to take out
a billboard, I was so serious,posted the photo of the
(10:50):
billboard and Bobby Bones and itwent viral within our community
, the Nashville community.
Hundreds and hundreds andhundreds of comments and likes,
everybody tagging Bobby Bonesand finally, at probably 11
o'clock at night or whatever hesaid, okay, let's do it.
And to his credit, because wehad a limited window to make it
(11:13):
happen in order to hit the 100thepisode, I think.
Two or three days later I was inhis house.
He gave me a 45-minute window.
He showed up, he was amazingand it's a great.
It's a great, great, greatinterview that I hope people go
back and listen to because itstill stands up and you can kind
of hear my excitement in it.
But also he's just so greatwhat he does being a guest and
(11:33):
being on, being a radio guy andum, and we were able to pull it
off and since we've becomefriendly.
But the a couple takeaways fromthat is one is there's that meme
that sometimes you see oninstagram of a guy digging for
gold and it's like you never andthe caption is like you never
know how close you were to goldwhen you turn around and the
image is the guy digging forgold with like a little bit of a
(11:55):
dirt, a little bit of dirtseparating him between gold, and
if he just took maybe one moredig of a shovel, he'd hit gold.
I think about that all the timewith this specific situation,
because I really was close toturning back and I don't know
how you figure out when the lineis to keep pushing or to turn
back, but if I had not taken outthat billboard, it wouldn't
(12:17):
have happened.
So there's a lesson there inperseverance.
And the other thing, too is Idid something similar with
someone else and uh, his teamactually reached me out and
reached out to me and uh told meto stop doing what I was doing.
So I did.
He then got new representation,new team.
I said I'm gonna try this again, and uh and the second, and
(12:38):
they told me again that to stop.
And the point of the story isthis doesn't always work, but
sometimes it does.
And I have a great story withthe Bobby Bones thing.
Lachlan Stuart (12:49):
That's probably how you find out when it's too
much, when you get told torepeatedly stop, but until that
point you got to keep digging.
But what did it mean to you,though, to be able to have that
interview, and what has itopened up for you since then?
Zak Kuhn (13:07):
It was when I started the podcast, there were a
handful of people that I reallywanted to get on, that were kind
of like dream guests.
And bobby was one of thoseguests because I just kind of
looked up to the way he's donehis career and built his career
and just to get into the roomwith him to feel his energy and
to feel like you know, like alot of you know, it's being on
(13:29):
the radio and being apersonality and hosting a
podcast like this.
I think it can sometimes notseem like hard work, especially
if someone's really good at it,like Bobby is.
But when you get in a room withhim and you can ask him
questions and you can see theway that he can take your
question and I've interviewedhundreds of people at this point
there are good guests and thereare bad guests and you try to
(13:52):
give people the best opportunityto be interesting and you try
to throw out questions thatallow your guest the opportunity
to be their best selves.
But some people are better at itthan others and to see Bobby to
be able to run with thequestions I was throwing out to
him was really inspiring and itmade me go oh, there's room here
to improve at this and I don'teven know what improvement is,
(14:15):
because we're just here talkingbut we're trying to capture a
vibe and a little bit ofinterest and maybe a little bit
of entertainment and a littlebit of education.
And Bobby was able toaccomplish all of those things
in our conversation, which I wasreally inspired by and I've
interviewed him a couple timessince and he really can capture
this energy and this magic whenhe talks and that was a very
(14:38):
cool thing to experiencefirsthand.
Lachlan Stuart (14:42):
You said you've interviewed him a couple of
times and then you mentioned amoment or a couple of minutes
earlier like private jets andstuff.
Have you had any coolexperiences with him outside of
interviewing and stuff?
Zak Kuhn (14:53):
We've had some fun times traveling together and I
interviewed him on a red carpetat the ACM Awards and I
interviewed him for a magazinethat we did.
I interviewed him in the iHeartoffice and he's been very
generous with traveling atdifferent times.
Lachlan Stuart (15:12):
That's a good.
Yeah, I'll put it there.
Yeah, We'll leave it there.
But you obviously also are thefounder and CEO of Nashville
Briefing and it's like you covermusic and watching you do that
and learning a little bit moreabout that on the drive.
When I got to pick your brainaround, what it means to you,
how you put it together, I foundit fascinating.
But what inspired you or, forthe audience, what inspired you
(15:35):
to launch into that as well, ontop of everything else that
you're doing?
Because you are spinning a lotof plates and you're a very
efficient, you're a verymotivated individual and being
around people like yourselfmakes me want to do more.
Just being in your presence asmuch as you're always on.
I'm like man.
I could do a little bit more sofor you with the magazine.
Zak Kuhn (15:57):
I feel that way looking at you, because I'm not
as physical as you are and I'mnever going to do this challenge
that you're about to do 58marathons in 58 days.
I'm never going to do that inmy life, but when I see you do
it it makes me go.
If locky can do that, maybe Ican push myself physically a
little more.
And we're trying to get on somephysical exercise here.
I was working out this morning,locky, I just, I just want you
(16:18):
to know.
But um tell, yeah, get out ofhere, but the the newsletter I I
started the newsletter reallyout of.
I was at the ACM Awards inVegas, which is a big country
music award show, and I was atthis lunch with a group of
publicists who were saying thatthey wished that there was
another publication that wouldcover the country music news
(16:40):
that they could work with.
There really wasn't anything inthe space would cover the
country music news that theycould work with.
There really wasn't anything inthe space.
And I just sort of had thisthought that I could do that and
I had this confidence to itthat I felt like I could do it.
The idea really excited me andI remember I told a couple of
friends who I was with and Isaid Guys, I think I'm going to
start this country musicnewsletter.
(17:01):
It's come out every week.
It's going to cover the countrymusic industry.
And they said to me theyliterally said don't do that.
They said don't even tellpeople you're going to do that
because nobody follows throughon that kind of thing.
And then it's going to beembarrassing if you tell people
you're going to do it and youdon't follow through.
And that really motivated me todo it because I said no really
(17:29):
motivated me to do it.
Because I said no, no, I'mgonna show all you guys I'm
going to be able to do this.
So it started really simply.
I think I experienced this allthe time.
Maybe you see this too.
People come to me all the timeon advice on how to start a
podcast, and my advice is alwaysto just start.
My early episodes were recordedover an iPhone with a little app
.
The audio is bad, the questionsare bad, the artwork is bad,
it's bad, but there's no way Icould get to where I am now
(17:52):
without going through those repsof bad podcasts, and I'm sure
I'm going to look back in acouple years and think the
podcasts I'm doing now arecringe or whatever.
So the newsletter started outwith me just writing it every
day and I would send it to twopeople my brother and a friend
of mine who worked in mediabecause I felt like it was a
safe space.
I felt like they would give megood feedback while not judging
(18:16):
me or the quality of my work.
So initially it was those twofor a couple of weeks and I was
writing the newsletter every dayand eventually I said, okay,
I'm going to bring 10 friendsinto this and started sending it
to 10 friends and I startedtaking feedback and talking to
them about what kind ofinformation they would want to
see in the newsletter that wouldbe helpful.
(18:36):
Now there's 12 people on aMailChimp account.
Okay, this is not rocketscience.
I don't even think I had a logo.
Eventually I get a logo made,etc.
And those friends started tosay, can we share this with
people in our office?
Because I think it could reallybe helpful.
And then I knew I was startingto make something that was
(18:59):
valuable.
My friends were willing toshare it with someone else
because it would make them lookgood to share it with their boss
or with their coworker orwhatever.
It was going to give value tothe people around them, which is
always what I'm trying to dowith the national briefing,
because otherwise there's nopoint in it.
So that's when it started tospread.
But I was working another job atthe time, so this newsletter
(19:22):
thing was kind of a side projecttime.
So this newsletter thing waskind of a side project Come
COVID.
I was unemployed, sitting athome with nothing but a
newsletter and I said let me seeif I can really make this
newsletter work.
It's the only thing I have.
I probably thought I was goingto find another job, but I was
able to really work on thenewsletter, which has become
(19:44):
much more of a media company.
We're now doing print issues.
The podcast is looped in thewebsite.
We do events.
It's really become just a musicindustry media company and that
was the genesis of it.
That's where it started.
Lachlan Stuart (20:00):
You've been rejected a lot, or not even
rejected.
You've had a lot of peopledoubt you, even just from what
you've said there.
People said don't do thenewsletter.
There was also people tellingyou not to contact them anymore
or continue pursuing.
Yes, getting that rocking 100episode with Bobby Bones.
What drives you to keep going?
Because I find it veryfascinating with people.
(20:22):
There's generally people wholisten to that advice and they
play small and they end up quiteresentful or constantly ask
themselves what could have been.
And then there's people likeyourself who find a way to just
keep going and I'm very curiousas to are you motivated more by
the pain of not being enough orthe pleasure of what could be,
(20:44):
of not being enough, or thepleasure of what could be, maybe
a little bit of both.
Zak Kuhn (20:47):
I also think that that's a very good question.
I'm not very scared of failure.
Maybe I don't really care whatpeople think, and I also don't
really I like when I pullsomething off and people.
(21:09):
When I pulled off the BobbyBones thing, there was a period
of time where I was walkingaround Nashville and random
people would come up to me andbe like you're the guy who got
Bobby Bones on the podcast andthat's cool.
But that really is not whatmotivates me.
I like the challenge of pullingit off and the feeling of
success after pulling it off,and I think that's what really
(21:33):
excites me, and the idea ofpulling it off not even for
success sake, but just for thegratification that I pulled
something off that waschallenging or hard.
And I also think that I also gettalked out of a lot of things
all the time.
I'll have ideas that I'lldiscuss with people and people
will say that's not a great ideabecause X, y, z and have you
(21:54):
thought about this?
And a lot of times those peopleare right.
And then I look back on it andI go, oh my God, I can't believe
.
I thought that was a good idea,or I'll try the idea and it'll
fail and I go that person wasright, it wasn't that idea.
But I just think there's.
(22:14):
At the end of the day, there'scertain things that I do that I
just know are right, and I alsohave a lot of support from just
friends and family and peoplethat are the first to If I pitch
them a crazy idea and it seemsfun or funny to just be like
yeah go for it.
And I also.
There are people in my life.
(22:35):
I had a mentor in my life atone point who was such a
naysayer Everything I would talk, every idea I would talk about.
He would just shoot down and belike I would talk like every
idea I would talk about.
He would just shoot down and belike, ah, that's not a great
idea, right?
Yeah, that's that would.
That'll never work.
Or, uh, and I just stoppedgetting lunch with that guy,
like I just couldn't be aroundhim.
It was like, and he was a smartguy, but it was like I just
(22:55):
can't hang around you and Iliterally cut him years and
that's harsh.
And if you wanted to reconnectright now, I'd be happy to
reconnect with them and getlunch.
But I just really try to hangaround people that are going to
be positive and optimistic andhelp contribute to what I'm
trying to do, and I'm not afraidto cut people out.
(23:20):
But I'm also more okay workingalone than working with other
people, like some people say, oh, you should have, you should
bring in a partner, and I go whywould I want a partner?
I don't want to.
I don't want to work withanyone.
That being said, I have anamazing team on national
briefing that I can't workwithout, but but so much of what
I do is just is, it's just me,and you know I'm just trying to
(23:41):
challenge myself to do reallycool stuff.
Lachlan Stuart (23:45):
It's cool to hear that because I can relate a
lot to that through the senseof wanting to do hard things.
And there is like a certainsense of stuff when people say
you can't do that or youshouldn't do that.
I constantly get that and partof me is the things that I do,
much like what you're doing,zach.
(24:05):
It's not so much about thething in itself and achieving
that outcome, it's more so whatam I capable of?
Because every time I try tostretch myself, like you've done
with the magazine, the podcast,getting Bobby on and where
you're going.
It requires a better version ofyou like maybe different
connections, maybe you have tosolve certain problems and that
in itself is the satisfaction.
(24:27):
And I think part of you saidpain and pleasure motivate that.
It would be the same for me thepain of staying where I was or
even regressing to where I was Idon't want that but the
pleasure of what I could be orwho I could be, and the
influence that I could have,which is still so unknown, and
that excites me.
And I think I'll lean on painwhen I need to kick up the ass
(24:49):
and if I need a little bit ofinspiration, I'll move towards
the pleasure side of things, andthat's what enables us to go,
and I feel so many people thatwould be listening to this
struggle to get moving becausethey're so focused on the
outcome and whether it's a goodor a bad outcome that defines
them.
And for you, it sounds like,zach, that it's just that next
(25:12):
step around.
Okay, I've overcome variousthings to achieve this Awesome
pat on the back.
Now, what's next?
So do you worry about?
Well, actually, first questiondo you feel content with where
you're at?
Zak Kuhn (25:28):
Well, first of all, I want to comment on one other
thing going back, which is Ialso think about.
We're recording this inNovember and it is end of year.
People always think about theend of the year.
Part of what happens is I getto this point in the middle of
the year where I go go.
Have I done enough to make thisyear count?
(25:49):
And I really feel thatgenuinely, and I usually like to
do a couple crazy things everyyear so I can look back on it
and say this was a productiveyear, because I did a couple
crazy things and other stuff too.
Takes a lot to look back on ayear and have it be productive,
but when I think about the bobbystunt, that was like a
(26:10):
monumental moment of that wholeyear.
And then there was anotherthing I did that year too.
Within the same week I made myBroadway debut in New York in
the pit of Wicked playing guitar, and I had six days to get
ready to go into the pit andthat was another lifelong dream
and I was able to do both thosethings in about a four-week
window.
And there's stuff this year.
There's interviews I've done.
(26:31):
The print issues we starteddoing this year have been
monumental.
So I always think it's fun tohave a couple things every year
that are huge and monumental andI feel like that makes me feel
like I'm doing enough.
To tie it into the questionthat you just asked, I feel like
when I'm doing things that arecrazy challenging, crazy hard, I
(27:00):
do have more of a feeling oflike I am doing enough, but it
comes and goes.
It's a constant balance of Ireally do feel satisfied.
When I had Bradad paisley on mypodcast this year, that really
felt like, okay, I'm doingsomething right and I really
felt that.
I was just in la last week andI interviewed for my podcast the
ceo of fender guitars and I'vebeen playing fender guitars my
whole life and I flew to la todo the interview.
(27:23):
I was in LA for about 48 hourslast 32 hours did the interview
and that was a really satisfyingfeeling of I'm doing something
right in the space that I wantto be doing and that makes me
feel really good.
But sometimes I feel like I'mnot doing enough.
Right now I'm struggling withsomething, which is I was going
(27:44):
through this phase where mypodcast was getting massive
views on YouTube.
I was cutting up clips andacross my clips on episodes, I
was getting millions of viewsand now I'm putting out content
that, in my mind, is equally ashigh and the views are down.
So I'm trying to hack it.
I'm trying to say do I need tochange my thumbnails?
(28:06):
Today I'm ABing two differentthumbnails on the same video
that you can do with YouTube,and I'm doing the same thing
with titles and I'm playing withmy titles and I'm trying to
figure out is it guests thatspike my views?
And that is really frustratingto me and sometimes I catch
myself going oh, the reason theviews are down is because the
podcast sucks.
(28:27):
Nobody wants to listen.
That's the internal conversationI have with myself when I'm in
the shower in the morning andI'm stuck with only my thoughts.
Reference Seth Godin again, buthe has this other quote that
(28:48):
the really the important thingthat I try to think about is the
practice, and I try to get mypractice right.
Seth wrote a whole book about,called the Practice, which is a
great read on this topic.
But I try to hold myself in thebelief and understanding that
the practice is the only thing Ican control.
The only thing I can control isdoing episodes of my podcast
(29:08):
every week and running tests totry to hack the algorithm and
playing with thumbnails, and ifsomething's not working, the
thing I can control is trying todo other things to try to fix
it and the outcome is theoutcome.
And it's funny because peoplesometimes say to me oh, I just
listened to your podcast episodeand I loved it.
And that's funny because peoplesometimes say to me oh, I just
listened to your podcast episodeand I loved it, and that's
(29:30):
always great.
But it's always weird to mebecause I actually don't make
these podcast episodes, eventhough I want people to listen
to them.
This is going to sound crazy.
I want people to listen to thepodcast and the more people
listen to it, the more money youcan make on advertising and the
more your profile can grow andyou get better guests.
But I do the podcast for myselfbecause I love hosting the
(29:51):
episodes every week and I lovethe practice of having the
conversations, becoming a betterasker of questions, becoming a
better podcaster.
This week I'm doing episodes onthe podcast of guests that I
think are not Bobby Bones andare not Andy Mooney, the CEO
offender, and that's just asexciting because I'm
(30:13):
interviewing people who don'thave that crazy career
trajectory, but they've doneamazing stuff in their own right
.
And how do I show that in thepodcast and engage people and
get people interested?
And that's its own challenge.
And I know that I recorded acouple of episodes this week
that are not going to get asmany views as I think this
episode with the CEO offender isgoing to get.
(30:34):
But that's not why I do thepodcast.
I do it for just the practiceof doing it every week and I
really enjoy it.
If you don't enjoy that, maybeyou shouldn't start a podcast,
but that's why I do it.
And to answer your originalquestion, I go in and out of
phases of feeling like I'm doingenough, but most of the time I
(30:56):
do not.
I I get frustrated because whatI actually think is I don't
have enough time.
I I feel like I'm doingeverything I can do because I
work all the can.
I curse, I work all the fuckingtime lock.
You don't understand like Iwork so much.
(31:16):
So I I sometimes don't thinkthat I'm not doing enough, but
sometimes what I honestly thinkis that what I am doing is not
good enough or it's not, it'snot gonna work, or I'm doing the
wrong things and that reallystresses me out.
I'm doing something pretty muchevery moment of the day just
about, or I'm taking a nap, um,but what does really stress me
(31:41):
out is that what I'm doing isnot enough, or it's not going to
be, or it's not going to work,or that.
Not that what I'm doing is notenough, but that the quality of
the work is not good enough.
That stresses me out.
Lachlan Stuart (31:57):
I can relate to everything you've just said and
I feel like and I've said thisto Amy and Emma and stuff before
I feel like you're me like acouple of years ago, when I
started in business 10 years agothis year, and I definitely you
take it back to what you weretalking about.
What's it like to start apodcast?
Even the same with what's itlike to start a business In the
(32:19):
beginning?
Everything you do sucks like itdoes.
You don't have systems, youdon't know how to write content
or market or even deliver yourservice very well, but that's
what you've got to figure outalong the way.
And then you'll go throughtimes where, for me, I'll have
big years financially or I'llland a client who's got a really
big profile, or same with thepodcast.
(32:40):
I'll have massive months ofdownloads and I'm like I've hit
it, let's go, let's take offhere of downloads.
And I'm like I've hit it, let'sgo, let's take off here.
And then it crashes and you'relike what is it?
Is it the thumbnail, is it theguests?
All of the things that you said, or have I not marketed myself
enough?
And it's like this rollercoaster that is fun when you
become aware of that.
That's part of the way I see itas part of life.
(33:02):
But when I was starting out, Ijust thought I had to be burning
in this upward trajectory.
So when it wasn't going thatdirection, I would be working
literally from 5 am to like 10plus at night, big days, and I
was to the point where Iwouldn't eat food.
I was always under eating.
Training was sacrificed becauseI had this burning desire to
(33:23):
prove myself and also I wantedto see what I was capable of.
And to your point as well, whenyou start thinking about maybe
I'm not doing things well, howcould I do them better?
You mentioned you've got agreat team behind you with the
Nashville Briefing.
I then went maybe I need abusiness partner, and so I got
into a business partnershipwhich absolutely tanked and it
(33:44):
cost me a lot of money, and Irecognized which you already
know for yourself it's likethat's not the route for me.
I just need to work out how I'mgoing to do this.
But the main thing or the onething that has kept me going and
I assume it's the one thingthat's keeping you going is you
just love what you do.
You have done it before you gotpaid and you still continue to
(34:05):
do it, even though you may notget paid as much as you will
eventually get paid with throughthe fact that you just love
interviewing people.
Like I'm so curious aboutlearning more about you and the
last 15 minutes was soinsightful for me that week in,
week out, I'll show up because Ilove learning about people and
it's sort of.
One of my major sponsorsYesterday said to me I was like
(34:31):
I can't believe how much supportI've got for this run.
You know the companies that havepartnered with us and
everything, and he's like Lockie.
You've got to recognize thatthis is the last X amount of
years of you.
Showing up consistently is thereason why brands want to
partner with you.
So, even though you struggledfor all of those years and you
felt like you weren't makingprogress or you weren't good
enough or what you were doingwasn't good enough, it is.
(34:52):
So take this.
I wanted to share that becauseI can definitely relate to.
The question that I had nextwas what will it take for you to
feel like you've arrived, likeyou've made that point.
Zak Kuhn (35:05):
I don don't know.
I think about that too a lot,and I don't know if I'll ever
feel that way, because sometimesI think about, sometimes I try
to put myself in the in theshoes of people that I really
admire, and I go okay, if I hadeverything that Bobby Bones has,
(35:28):
would I feel like I had enough,or I made it, and I always
think, well, yes, but then Iwould want to do these other
things, or I would want to addto it, or I would want to do
something.
So I don't know when that is,but something that.
But I think that the like rightnow it's the phase of the
(35:51):
company where everything isworking and it's great.
But if a couple clients canceltheir advertising, or if a
couple like if, if somethinghappens, you know, the house is
a little shaky.
If something happens, the houseis a little shaky.
And I think when the housefeels like, okay, even if a
(36:19):
hurricane came through and brokesome windows or a tree fell on
half of it or whatever, it wouldstill survive, then I think it
would be a little bit more likeI've really built something
powerful here.
But it's interesting becauseeven at this stage of the
company, we're already sellingadvertising for next year, 2025.
And the advertising that wesold for 2025 is not even
advertising that we've reallygone out and pitched.
(36:39):
It's clients coming to us andlocking in space for next year.
So I do sometimes think I don'teven know if I could shut this
down, because all of a suddenI'm locked into doing certain
things next year, whether I wantto or not, and I do.
But I'm locked in because Ihave advertisers now who are
(37:01):
paying for it, so now I'mcommitted to do it.
So I don't know it's a goodquestion and I don't know if I
have the answer and I mightnever get to that point.
But hopefully you can just feela little more.
You know, I feel like I turneddown a lot of social things to
(37:23):
work on my projects, to work onmy projects, and I think lately
I've started to try and not dothat as much, because you look
back on a lot of things and yougo, oh I don't even remember
what I was working on, but Imissed that social thing, and
then when you do do socialthings, they stand out in your
head more.
So I'm trying to do To go bepresent during more social
(37:48):
things, and I think that whenyou have the confidence to show
up for really important socialthings and not be worried that
your company is going to fallapart.
If you go out for one night ordo something, that might be the
time when you feel a little moresecure or confident in what
you've built.
But I don't know.
It's a tough question.
What do you think?
Lachlan Stuart (38:09):
Well, I think a lot about this and I've thought
a lot about it, especially aswe've moved overseas and getting
married and things like that,and I work with a lot of CEOs
and very successful people and Ialways.
There was a book that I read anumber of years ago and I think
I spoke about this on yourpodcast the top five regrets of
(38:31):
the dying by Bronnie Waugh.
She's an Australian palliativecare nurse and basically she
started gaining insights and youknow, making research around
what people regretted on theirdeathbed.
And when I started reading thatand I then started talking to
my clients and saw the positionsthey were in, there were
certain things that I loved andI really aspired to have.
(38:52):
But quite often we focus onwhat people have, not what they
sacrificed or missed out on toget there.
So, even a lot now and it willbe where we go from here what I
want to understand about peopleis what they sacrifice and what
goes on up here in order toachieve that, because that then
helps me understand from abigger picture perspective
(39:15):
around.
Am I prepared to do that?
So in the beginning of business, I was prepared to do anything
to have my own business and doit for ego, do it for money.
Do it for like I felt goodbusiness.
And do it for ego.
Do it for money, do it for likeI felt good.
As I've gotten older once again,a lot of men that I work with
they aren't happy in theircareers.
They've got themselves lockedinto a position where,
(39:35):
financially, they have to stickit out because they've got
mortgages, a lot ofresponsibilities, families etc.
That are used to this level ofincome, but as a result, they've
sacrificed.
They might be on their secondmarriage or their marriage is
not very good, their health isshocking and they don't spend
any time with their friends.
So when I look at that, I'mlike I don't want those things.
(39:56):
No amount of money is worththat to me.
So to answer your question whenyou've asked it back, zach, is
I look at that and I go, okay, Iwant that thing, but I don't
want these things.
So what would it look like inmy business and in my life for
me to be able to have that andthose?
Because if I just said, oh,it's not possible, I'm not
(40:17):
practicing what I preach Now I'mnot saying it's easy, but the
life that I've built.
Now I earn a certain amount ofincome.
And when I hit that level ofincome, my goal was okay, how do
I maintain this income whiletraveling?
How do I maintain this incomewhile getting to do awesome
things that I want to do the 58marathons, for example?
How do I maintain that incomewhile getting to do whatever I
(40:40):
want with my wife?
And that's then shifted.
How I've had to structure mybusiness but also structure my
time.
That's then shifted.
How I've had to structure mybusiness but also structure my
time.
One of the biggest fears that Ihad, zach, that you mentioned
earlier, was if I step away, thehouse of cards could fall, and
that is freaking scary becauseyou know how much time and
energy and sacrifice you've putinto building that.
(41:02):
But the only way I was able tofind out whether it would stand
or crumble was to take time away, and through that time away I
was able to go okay, that needsto be fine-tuned.
I need a better system here.
I maybe need to, whatever itwas, to sort of deal with that,
and that's made my business morebulletproof, but it's also
(41:23):
allowed me to mentally separatemyself to invest in other areas.
Now some people, business isn'ttheir priority.
It might be.
Hey, I spend a lot of time withmy family and I work nine to
five, which is completely fine,but I want to get my health back
, okay.
So how do I start managing that?
And that's where we look at, Iguess, scheduling time, and for
(41:44):
me I've zoomed out a little bitand I go okay, the things that
they represent.
So money, my marriage, my timewith my friends and the hobbies
that I have is health is a veryimportant value, adventure is a
very important value, connectionis a very important value and
freedom is a very importantvalue.
And how I get those will changethrough different phases of my
(42:08):
life and that, to me, is what'smost important.
So most of the decisions that Imake and sorry for the
long-winded answer, we'll comeback to that Is this going to
help me 10 years' time?
Is this still going to alignwith health?
And, similar to what you said,I've cut people out of my life
because I haven't felt connectedto them anymore.
That season's passed, butthere's new people that have
(42:32):
come in and I'm stillexperiencing connection that's
ticked just with differentpeople.
And then freedom.
Freedom for me is mental Idon't want to feel attached to
my career where I can't stepaway, but it's also financial
and time.
So if I do have children, I canbe a stay-at-home dad if I want
, or if I do want to take twomonths off and run around the
(42:52):
world or run around thosecountries, I can still do that
and not be able to pay mymortgage.
And to me, that sort of helpedme with that and it's been so
hard to do.
Zach, in regards to steppingback, but the best thing that I
did was move like moving toAmerica really helped me reset a
lot of relationships that Iguess were holding me back.
(43:14):
So that was a long-windedanswer there.
Zak Kuhn (43:18):
No, that makes a lot of sense.
And I was the kid that you know.
I went to music school and Iplayed guitar.
I was the kid that on Fridaynight, while everyone was out
partying, I was in my parents'basement learning how to play
guitar.
Experiences because I wasplaying guitar.
(43:46):
And looking back, I feel bothways about it, because all the
stuff that you see in the moviesI didn't really do that in high
school, a little bit towardsthe end of my senior year when I
was already in college.
But then I think if I hadn'tdone that, I wouldn't be able to
play guitar and there's no wayI would have learned or have had
the time to put that much timeinto it.
And I and now I think about I'mso grateful that I put that
(44:08):
time in when I was younger tolearn the instrument, because
now I don't have time topractice guitar for five, six,
eight hours a day.
Yeah, so, so it's, so it's.
It's a funny thing where, youknow, I don't know where the
balance is, but you know I tryto just do whatever I want to do
most in that moment and ifthat's working out or not
(44:29):
working out, but working on aproject, that's what it is where
sometimes I will crave thefeeling that I need to go out
and be social or I need to hangwith someone or just be.
I'll get lonely on a Fridaynight and a lot of Friday nights
I'm home working, but sometimesI'll just be.
You know, I'll get lonely on aFriday night and a lot of Friday
nights I'm home, working, butsometimes I'll just say I got to
get out and hang with somefriends or do something.
So yeah, so it's always asliding scale, lockie.
(44:53):
It's all over the place.
Lachlan Stuart (44:56):
And I think, if we were to look at that, I feel
like life's always full ofregret and people are trying to
avoid having regrets, which iswhy we overthink things or we
don't want to.
You know, FOMO is the word it'sabout like, which regret could
I live with?
Because you're very clear onwhat you're working towards,
zach, and not everyone is, and Ifeel like I am as well, and
(45:18):
there's people who haveabsolutely no idea.
And to those people I would belike just go, have as many new
experiences as possible untilyou find the things that you
enjoy, and then maybe they mightlead to careers or social
groups, et cetera.
But when you find that thingthat you can't stop thinking
about, which you've obviouslyfound, it is very hard and it is
very even for me to say to youhey, stop doing that.
(45:41):
I couldn't do that because Idon't know what really motivates
you and why you want to do itand where you hope it's going to
take you.
And so for me, oh, yeah, yeah,no, keep going no, no, no, you
go.
Zak Kuhn (45:53):
Well, I was gonna say there was when I was in college.
There was, um.
I had the opportunity to studyabroad in spain.
I went to Berkeley College ofMusic and you could study abroad
in Valencia, spain.
And I had a bunch of friends whodid it and I was like I worked
my ass off to get to Berkeley.
(46:14):
Why am I going to take asemester away from this campus?
I'm here to learn guitar andmusic and I took music business
classes and I'm not going tostep guitar and music and I'm,
and I took music businessclasses and like I'm not gonna
step away and go to spain for amonth or for a semester.
And I think some people that'slike that was why they went to
college, because they wanted toget away and they wanted to
(46:35):
experience the world and thatwas really important to them.
But for me, I don't even.
I have no regrets about that, Idon't even think about it like
I, like I don't.
I think I would have regret ifI had gone to spain.
Like to me, that's what I,that's, that was the thing.
So I think it just depends whatexactly.
Like you said, if you have yournorth star, you know you're not
(46:56):
going to regret not followingit.
But you know, for other people,that trip to spain might have
been life-changing too, which isamazing.
Lachlan Stuart (47:04):
But I think you just have to know yourself and
what you're trying to go after100%, and that's the key there,
and I think that's why it'simpossible to be able to comment
on what is right or wrong foran individual.
But that's why I love evenbeing able to unpack what's in
your mind, and I'm glad we sortof dove into the sacrifices
around things that are important, because sacrifices are part of
(47:26):
that journey, and a lot ofpeople may have seen you on the
billboards and see what you'redoing in the world and in your
business and career now andthey're like I want to do that.
Therefore, I'm just going to doexactly what Zach's done I'm
going to play shows with Shepard, I'm going to launch a magazine
, I'm going to launch a podcast.
But you've sacrificed a lot ofstuff that you would have
(47:47):
enjoyed, as you said a lot ofsocial outings, probably family
things.
What are some of the keysacrifices that have stood out
for you?
And I know you said the socialones, but are there anything
else that you've?
Zak Kuhn (47:58):
I think touring with Shepard has been a sacrifice in
a good way, but I'll tell youwhy.
I mean I spent a lot of timeout with you guys this year,
probably spent in total like amonth of the road, because we
did three weeks together.
We did two weeks Maybe longer,maybe longer, and for my
business, which is a reallyimportant thing for me, the
(48:20):
touring with you guys didn'treally have a direct correlation
to national briefing.
Now, you said this when, when Iwas interviewing you and if you
saw me in the road are we good?
yeah, you're good.
Oh you, you had said this whenwe were talking um, uh, that you
know, if you saw me on the roadwith shepherd, you would see
that on these long drives I'd beon my computer sending emails
(48:45):
and working, we'd soundcheck andthen I'd do more work and then
we'd play the show, we'd pack upand if we were driving
somewhere I'd usually be workingon my computer in the van as
we've been driving and I wasalways making phone calls and
trying to get things done.
And no doubt that touring withyou guys had some even if it's
small impact on my business ofyou know.
(49:07):
I was able to maintain thelevel of it, but maybe it didn't
excel or maybe there were otherthings that could have been
working.
But for me, I love playingguitar and I love getting the
opportunity to do that, and itwas actually very energizing to
go out on the road with you guysand even though it was
exhausting, it was creatively areally fun outlet to be able to
(49:30):
get up on stage and to playthose songs and to be forced to
play guitar, because oftentimesI'll go long stretches without
really honing in on my guitarplaying because I might not have
a gig or I'm working on otherthings, and when you go out with
a band like Shepard, you've gotto be in really top shape.
So I was forced to carve outtime to practice and to work on
(49:54):
the material and just to be outevery night playing with you
guys.
So that felt like a sacrificeright there, but it was worth it
because it was energizing atthe same time and also I think
that sometimes when you stepaway from what you're doing and
you go into a different outlet,it can bring different
perspective or different ideas,kind of like you mentioned a
second ago 100%, but that wasequally as such.
Lachlan Stuart (50:17):
One of the inspiring things from my
perspective is that tool was sogrueling and one minute you're
playing shows, we're loading in,we're loading out, we're trying
to find food, but for me, tosee the extra effort that you
went in or put in sorry, tostill be making the phone calls
and doing what you need to do onyour own business I was like
that You're one of the onlyother people that I've met that
(50:38):
does that, because that'ssimilar to you.
I'm up training and then I'mdoing my work and then we're
doing the gigs, and a lot ofpeople don't necessarily
understand that, and so for meit was like I found someone who
has that same, I guess wants tocontinue to use shepherd as the
example on the outside.
(50:58):
It's like you want to playthose and have those moments
with them, which is what I do,as as the husband as well, but I
also equally, as such, want toput a lot of energy and effort
into what I'm achieving, whichjust means it's a big, bloody
day and it's it's hard work, butit's so freaking sweet and
that's I mean for me, with myexperiences of touring as a
musician that's always myexperience.
Zak Kuhn (51:23):
I'm a side man, so I'm out helping other people's
dreams come true.
I'm contributing to someoneelse's vision and I've toured a
lot as a side man.
I toured with an artist thatwas on Warner called Temecula
Road.
I did probably 2 years withthem, doing probably close to 80
dates a year.
Same experience.
(51:43):
I'd be in the van working, we'ddo the gig, I'd get back to
working.
When I think about touring, thatjust comes with it.
I'm going to be working nonstop, but I feel like I am
contributing to someone else'scareer.
I'm also hopefully having funwhile I'm on stage, but if I'm
not pushing my career forward,then it feels like it was a
(52:06):
waste of time.
I have to be doing both inorder to feel good about taking
the time out to tour and to beon the road.
Otherwise, I feel pretty guiltyabout it because I feel like
I'm neglecting my business andmy assets and my things, that
I've done so.
A lot of the times when you seeme on tour and I'm working
overtime, it's really not that Iwant to be doing it, I am just
(52:27):
quite literally scared to not bedoing it, and that, for me, can
be a pretty big motivator.
Lachlan Stuart (52:33):
Dude, you've just unpacked my mind as well.
1000% it's supporting others,but I'm that side man in that
position.
But for me it's like I want tobuild something for myself, I
want to pursue my potential,which means that's the hours
that I have to do it.
I have to get it done,regardless of if I'm tired or if
I haven't eaten.
It's just.
That is my commitment to myselfand that's what I think makes
(52:55):
people rise above.
The rest is because it's veryeasy to go.
Oh, I only had four hours sleeplast night, or one day off
won't hurt.
But when you as we've saidcountless times you found that
North Star or that thing thatkeeps you awake at night because
you're so excited about it,you'll find a way to make that
happen.
Another thing that I wanted toquickly dive into and I know
(53:17):
we're nearly at the end here isyour ability to network.
So we can look at that from twolenses.
The first one is internally.
It takes a lot or I believedoes because of self-doubt or
we're worried about fear ofjudgment to continue to build
your network.
And when I say, get into theareas that you want to be and
(53:41):
that are going to help propelyour career forward or meet the
people that you want to meet,that are going to help propel
your career forward, or meet thepeople that you want to meet.
That's challenging, right.
So for me, that's a lot ofinternal thought that we have to
overcome or doubt.
The second side is how do wepresent ourselves to have enough
value to be invited into thoseareas?
So would we be able to startjust quickly with you?
You're one of the most knownpeople in Nashville I've ever
met.
You walk down the street withyou and everyone knows you.
(54:01):
Okay, you're one of the mostconnected people and I would
love to know how someone likeyourself, who moved from New
York to Nashville, hasestablished such a great network
in such a short period of time,and how have you allowed
yourself to elevate with thelevel of influence that you've
now got?
Zak Kuhn (54:30):
When I moved to Nashville I was unemployed.
I knew a couple people and Ibought a directory that had the
emails of all of the powerplayers in the music business in
Nashville and I sat on my couchand I wrote cold emails to them
that basically begging to getcoffee, and maybe 1 out of 10.
Let's say 2 out of 10 wouldrespond to me.
1 out of 10 would agree tocoffee.
And that's how I started to getin the door, was just meeting
(54:54):
people and sometimes thosepeople would have a good meeting
with me and they would respectmy hustle and what I was doing
and they would introduce me toother people.
And that was the early stagesof it.
The other thing I did literallywhen I was in Nashville was
there's a great book by KeithFerrazzi called Never Eat Alone,
(55:14):
which I had read around thattime and it was pretty impactful
.
But one of the things I woulddo when I moved to Nashville was
literally commit myself tonever eating alone and it didn't
matter who it was.
I would find a way to havebreakfast, lunch and dinner with
someone and that meant havingbreakfast, lunch and dinner with
a lot of pretty weird people.
(55:34):
I'm just going to put it outthere, because it was a
challenge I held to myself,which is I just need to be with
someone right now and I would goout every night and I would
just meet people and say, hey,we should get coffee, we should
get this, we should get whatever.
So that was a big part of it,and I think the other thing too
is you alluded to it which isthe best thing for my network,
(56:00):
because there's been a couple,couple phases of my networking.
I would say Phase one was likehustle, hustle, hustle.
Try to meet as many people as Ican.
Get coffee with everyone, getdinner with everyone, get lunch
with everyone, show up atpeople's offices, and that maybe
gets you in the door and getsyou started.
That's a good thing to do.
If you have that kind of youngenergy.
Then, as you start to buildsomething, it's like the
(56:30):
networking comes to me.
People email me all the timeasking to get coffee or wanting
to get together or pitching methings.
So it's like the most importantthing really is making yourself
appealing for other people andthey're going to find you and
reach out to you.
And then networking becomeslike Step one is like you're on
this uphill, you're going uphilland now I'm going downhill,
where not only are peoplereaching out to me, but if there
(56:51):
is someone I want to reach outto, there's a level of
credibility, whether it's aguest on the podcast.
I can email someone I say I'dlove to have you on the podcast.
By the way, I've also had thesefive other people, so then that
gives some motivation and somecredibility for them to come
onto the podcast.
So it's all a process, but it'sjust.
(57:14):
It's a lot of little things is,I think, what makes a great
network.
And the other thing too is youhave to figure out what you want
to do.
I'm very good at networking inthe Nashville space and the
music industry at large, but I'mhorrible at networking in other
industries.
Maybe that's not giving myselfenough credit, but I think the
(57:36):
reason is that when I network inthe music industry, people can
sense because you can't reallyfake this they can sense that
I'm all in and I hope peoplethink, oh, it's a matter of when
, not if, if this guy's gonnamake it and I want to get on the
train.
And I think I'm able to conveya level of dedication that when
I reach out to someone in, likeyou know, some other industry
(57:58):
and I don't have the samesuccess.
I think I'm not conveying thelevel that I'm passionate about
sports or whatever, whatever itmay be.
The other thing, too, aboutnetworking that I think is
important to keep in mind is Iremember locking in these
massive early meetings when Imoved to Nashville with the
heads of labels and really bigmanagers and publicists and all
(58:21):
these people that I think saidyes to me because I just told
them I was a college kid whojust graduated and moved to a
new city and could I stop by andsay hi for 15 minutes or 20
minutes.
And I remember going into thesemeetings and thinking that this
meeting with this person isgoing to change my life, because
they're going to hire me orthey're going to give me some
opportunity or just knowing themis going to be life altering,
(58:45):
life changing.
And I would leave thosemeetings and I'd be like, holy
shit, nothing happened.
Now I know that person.
That was a waste.
But then you go down this pathand you start networking.
You're meeting people, you'remeeting people and all of a
sudden you meet someone who sayswait a second, you met with
so-and-so.
I've been dying to meet withso-and-so.
(59:06):
Can you connect me?
And you go.
You know what you two shouldknow each other.
I can't believe you don't.
And then you're able to connectthose dots, and that doesn't
change your life either.
But all of a sudden it startsto build some equity and it
starts to provide value to yournetwork.
And the best thing you can sayabout a network is the more you
(59:29):
put into it, the more you'll getout of it.
And the other thing I likeabout the other networking tip I
like is from Dale Carnegie'show to Win Friends and Influence
People, which is just greeteveryone the way a dog greets
their master.
If you can greet everyone theway a dog greets you when you
walk in the door, you're doingsomething right.
(59:51):
That's excitement, energy.
Maybe lick their face a littlebit, okay, maybe don't do that.
Don't be a Doberman and slobbereverywhere, don't do that, but
that's always a good mentalityto have as well.
Lachlan Stuart (01:00:05):
Make people feel warm and valued is the key.
That book there that yourecommended, dude, that was
incredible insights.
Even I remember when you weretelling me that when we were
driving to Malibu and I was justlike this guy is a wizard, and
I've got some similarcomparisons with that, but, zach
, I've really appreciated yourtime.
Zach Kuhn, everybody.
(01:00:27):
Zach, firstly, you are worthy,you were loved and you are
inspiring, and I want to let youknow that you aren't a sideman,
you are the man and you'rebuilding something special, and
I'm proud to have you as a mateand also someone that I look up
to in the way that you conductyourself and present yourself in
business and in life, and Ilook forward to many more tours
(01:00:49):
while we're in the States andwatching your continued success.
So, everybody, zach Kuhn, thehost of the Zach Kuhn Show and
founder of Nashville Briefing,tuning in from the man that Can
Project.
As always, do something todayto be better for tomorrow.
Like I'm very excited.
Are you excited?
Zak Kuhn (00:04):
I'm thrilled.
Lachlan Stuart (00:05):
What do you mean ?
Zak Kuhn (00:07):
I don't like being on this end, though I prefer being
on the interviewing end.
I don't like being interviewed.
Lachlan Stuart (00:12):
That's why I'm so excited, though, because I've
seen and listened to so muchthat you've done and most of the
chats that I've listened towhere you've been on the other
side, it's been more so aboutbusiness and what you do, not
actually who you are like.
Obviously it's an extension ofwho you are, but, like I want
this to be like an episode ofpeeling back layers of onions,
does that?
Zak Kuhn (00:32):
scare you?
No, not really.
I don't know you look veryscared.
You're like crap.
I gotta change the whole topicof the episode.
I'm trying to scare him.
Lachlan Stuart (00:45):
Yeah, man, you started sweating.
I'm an open.
Zak Kuhn (00:48):
Listen first of all.
No, that's just my pits.
I'm an open book here and Iwill talk about anything with
you, lockie, because you bring alot of honesty to your show and
to your adventures and to whatyou do.
So that makes me want to giveit right back to you on this
episode, right here.
Lachlan Stuart (01:13):
So I'm an open book.
I feel like that's like areciprocating, greater
relationship, one where we justgot each other, we get to really
connect.
And I feel like the moment thatwe really connected was on that
road trip, listening to LarryKing going down the Malibu coast
.
That was a moment.
I do think that was a moment.
Yeah, that was a special momentand, for those who are tuning
in, I'm going to come back tothat, but we've got the man, the
(01:34):
myth, the legend, zachary Kahn,on the show.
Zach, thank you so much forbeing here.
Dude, I feel like I've justnabbed an exclusive interview
it's great to be here but wehave to correct.
Zak Kuhn (01:46):
The last name is pronounced kuhn with a u sound.
But most people don't get itright and that's fine.
But but it is great to be hereand I'm thrilled to be part of
the man that can community canyou let that roll off the tongue
one more time?
Lachlan Stuart (02:01):
the k Cune Cune, yeah yeah Cool.
You did a little tongue roll orsomething and I was like that's
very cool.
Zak Kuhn (02:10):
Yeah, Well, you know I'm a cool guy and my tongue
rolls come with that.
Lachlan Stuart (02:17):
But we did have that great road trip that day
and being able to travel withyou.
So, for those who don't know,zach has been playing guitar and
been on tour with us andShepard in the States and it's
been very cool to get to knowyou because we first met in 2022
.
And when Amy and I werevisiting Nashville, we met
(02:37):
yourself through Michael Chase,a mutual friend, and then you
came out to Australia for theCMC Festival and we got to show
around like our local cafe andyou got to meet and enjoy
ipswich, which I know you loved,and, uh, you want to come
desperately back to australia.
Zak Kuhn (02:54):
I can see it in your eyes no, I did have a great time
on that trip.
The only thing with australiais it's just so far, but I'd
want to go to australialiterally my whole life.
I've always been fascinated byit and the thing I find
fascinating about touring withyou guys is that we grew up on
literally I don't think you cangrow up further apart than I
(03:16):
grew up and the Shepard crewgrew up and all of our pop
culture references are sosimilar.
We're all listening to the samemusic and the same shows and I
know it's all kind of likewesternized I guess, or whatever
.
We live in a pretty small worldwith the internet and
everything, but we could havegrown up two houses down from
each other, even though we wereall grown up on opposite sides
(03:39):
of the world.
So to me that's fascinating.
I was dying to get to Australiaand I had an amazing time.
You guys were the best hosts.
You took me everywhere.
Lachlan Stuart (03:49):
It was amazing.
I wish we could do better andwe will do better, but you host
your own podcast.
Why do?
Zak Kuhn (03:54):
you feel that way?
Why do you feel like you?
What do you mean?
You wish you had done better.
Wish you had done better onwhat?
Lachlan Stuart (04:00):
I wish we took you to the islands.
There's so many things we'vespoken about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no you'reright.
Zak Kuhn (04:05):
Actually, you're right .
None of that happened and thatshould happen next time.
Lachlan Stuart (04:10):
Yes, so we will make sure that you get the true
blue Aussie experience of theislands, the four-wheel driving,
the red dirt and seeing some ofthose dogs out there.
That's what you want to do,that's what you really come to
Australia to see, so you can goback to Nashville, you can go
back to New York and really tellthose stories.
That's what we want, so we'llmake that happen.
Next time you're back out here,why don't you venture across the
(04:33):
seas?
But you're the host of the ZachKuhn Show and you've had
incredible guests, notably I'mgoing to start with Shepard,
obviously, but you've had BradPaisley, bobby Bones, colby
Calais, and one of the coolthings when I first met you and
this is one of the things thatfascinates me about you, zach is
, having spent so much time withyou, seeing how much you hustle
(04:54):
and when I say hustle, ladiesand gentlemen, you're a very
motivated individual to achievewhat you're working towards, and
I'll allow you to unpack thatand talk about that in a moment
but when we first met, you werelike I really want this guy on
my podcast.
Actually, I'll let you takethat story of Bobby Bones so I
don't butcher it.
Zak Kuhn (05:15):
So I think Bobby Bones is a very interesting character
because in certain worlds, heis incredibly, incredibly famous
.
In the country music world, heis the Howard Stern of country
music.
He has the biggest morningradio show in America.
He's listened to by millionsand millions and millions of
people every month.
(05:36):
And in a world where radiomeans less and less and country
music radio still carries a lotof weight, and Bobby Bones has a
lot of influence we're talkingprivate jet mega mansion.
I mean, this guy is a big, bigdeal and when I was in college,
I would listen to his radio showevery single morning because I
(05:56):
wanted to move to Nashville andthis is really the personality
behind Nashville.
He represents Nashville and theNashville music industry and I
would listen to his show everymorning because it gave me
insight into Nashville, into theNashville music business, all
of it Really, really, really abig hero of mine.
So I started my podcast in 2020, in the middle of the pandemic.
(06:20):
I'd always done interviews andI hosted a college radio show
and all this other stuff, but Ireally started the podcast in
the pandemic 2020.
Fast forward, I was approachingmy 100th episode of the podcast.
Yeah, and on the 100th episodeof the Bobby Bones podcast, he
makes this statement that Ithink he just pulled out of his
(06:42):
ass.
But he said you're not a realpodcast until you hit 100
episodes, and this is our 100thepisode.
So now I feel like the Bobbycast is a real podcast because
we finally hit 100 episodes, andI had listened to him say that
very much prior to my 100thepisode of my podcast, but I
just remembered that.
(07:03):
So as my 100th episode wasapproaching, I said what if I
got Bobby Bones on the 100thepisode of the podcast to help
make me a real boy?
He was going to be like myGeppetto.
Is that the right character?
Lachlan Stuart (07:17):
reference.
Zak Kuhn (07:18):
Let's keep rolling with it, right.
So he was going to make me areal podcast.
So I had the idea, you know I.
I emailed management.
It's not that hard to get hiscontacts.
You know his manager's contactif you live in nashville.
So I emailed management and, uh, they didn't get back to me.
I followed up probably fivetimes and then I emailed this
(07:38):
publicist and his publicist saidyeah, he's very busy, you know
he's not going to be able to dothis, are you like?
No way.
So then I said, well, I got tomake this.
Really, I have to get creativehere.
I have to get really creative.
So the first thing I did was Ijust took my phone and I made an
Instagram video that said BobbyBones, zach Hewn here, 100th
(08:02):
episode of the podcast.
I'd love to have you come on,but I really made a good pitch,
crickets.
He at the time had released achildren's book and my next move
was to do a live reading of hischildren's book on Instagram.
So I went on Instagram Live,opened the book, did a reading,
said Bobby Bones, come on to theshow, crickets.
(08:23):
My next move was to go on Cameo, the site where you can get
famous people to send youpersonalized videos.
And I said who's the mostfamous country artist on here
that I can find?
It was Carly Pierce.
I asked Carly Pierce to askBobby to come on to the show.
She did.
(08:43):
We threw that up on InstagramCrickets, okay.
And I think I did a couple otherthings too.
Now I have this mentor, who isthis incredibly accomplished
woman in the live entertainmentspace and, with all of her best
intentions, she said to me shesaid I think you should stop
(09:03):
this.
She said this is not a goodlook, it is too eager and it's
desperate and you might piss himoff.
And and she said look, I thinkI think you've gone too far,
it's not gonna work.
And I really took that to heartbecause I didn't want to be the
guy who was begging for bobbybones to come on and then was
(09:24):
going to fail.
I didn't want to do that.
That's lame.
But my gut said I had to do onemore move.
I actually had two more moves,but I was willing to make one
more move.
The final move we made was Itook a billboard out in the
center of Nashville on a verybusy street.
It said Bobby Bones helped theZach Kuhn show become a real
(09:45):
podcast, and I took a photo ofit and the billboard was only up
for about a day because thatwas all I could really afford
and I knew that actually, the Iknew that the act of taking out
the billboard would be moreimportant than the billboard
itself.
Seth Godin has this great quotewhen he talks about pizza and
(10:06):
he says the only differencebetween good pizza and bad pizza
is the inconvenience it is tomake good pizza.
It's incredibly inconvenient.
I think about that too If youthink about great dance routines
or if you go to the ballet.
Why is that entertaining?
Because it is inconvenient toput it together.
Something that is incrediblyinconvenient if you think about
(10:28):
it.
That's usually what we enjoy.
We like seeing inconvenientthings as humans.
That's my theory.
So, the act of taking out thebillboard even though I knew he
probably wouldn't even see thebillboard, I knew it would do
well on social media, because itis so inconvenient to take out
a billboard, I was so serious,posted the photo of the
(10:50):
billboard and Bobby Bones and itwent viral within our community
, the Nashville community.
Hundreds and hundreds andhundreds of comments and likes,
everybody tagging Bobby Bonesand finally, at probably 11
o'clock at night or whatever hesaid, okay, let's do it.
And to his credit, because wehad a limited window to make it
(11:13):
happen in order to hit the 100thepisode, I think.
Two or three days later I was inhis house.
He gave me a 45-minute window.
He showed up, he was amazingand it's a great.
It's a great, great, greatinterview that I hope people go
back and listen to because itstill stands up and you can kind
of hear my excitement in it.
But also he's just so greatwhat he does being a guest and
(11:33):
being on, being a radio guy andum, and we were able to pull it
off and since we've becomefriendly.
But the a couple takeaways fromthat is one is there's that meme
that sometimes you see oninstagram of a guy digging for
gold and it's like you never andthe caption is like you never
know how close you were to goldwhen you turn around and the
image is the guy digging forgold with like a little bit of a
(11:55):
dirt, a little bit of dirtseparating him between gold, and
if he just took maybe one moredig of a shovel, he'd hit gold.
I think about that all the timewith this specific situation,
because I really was close toturning back and I don't know
how you figure out when the lineis to keep pushing or to turn
back, but if I had not taken outthat billboard, it wouldn't
(12:17):
have happened.
So there's a lesson there inperseverance.
And the other thing, too is Idid something similar with
someone else and uh, his teamactually reached me out and
reached out to me and uh told meto stop doing what I was doing.
So I did.
He then got new representation,new team.
I said I'm gonna try this again, and uh and the second, and
(12:38):
they told me again that to stop.
And the point of the story isthis doesn't always work, but
sometimes it does.
And I have a great story withthe Bobby Bones thing.
Lachlan Stuart (12:49):
That's probably how you find out when it's too
much, when you get told torepeatedly stop, but until that
point you got to keep digging.
But what did it mean to you,though, to be able to have that
interview, and what has itopened up for you since then?
Zak Kuhn (13:07):
It was when I started the podcast, there were a
handful of people that I reallywanted to get on, that were kind
of like dream guests.
And bobby was one of thoseguests because I just kind of
looked up to the way he's donehis career and built his career
and just to get into the roomwith him to feel his energy and
to feel like you know, like alot of you know, it's being on
(13:29):
the radio and being apersonality and hosting a
podcast like this.
I think it can sometimes notseem like hard work, especially
if someone's really good at it,like Bobby is.
But when you get in a room withhim and you can ask him
questions and you can see theway that he can take your
question and I've interviewedhundreds of people at this point
there are good guests and thereare bad guests and you try to
(13:52):
give people the best opportunityto be interesting and you try
to throw out questions thatallow your guest the opportunity
to be their best selves.
But some people are better at itthan others and to see Bobby to
be able to run with thequestions I was throwing out to
him was really inspiring and itmade me go oh, there's room here
to improve at this and I don'teven know what improvement is,
(14:15):
because we're just here talkingbut we're trying to capture a
vibe and a little bit ofinterest and maybe a little bit
of entertainment and a littlebit of education.
And Bobby was able toaccomplish all of those things
in our conversation, which I wasreally inspired by and I've
interviewed him a couple timessince and he really can capture
this energy and this magic whenhe talks and that was a very
(14:38):
cool thing to experiencefirsthand.
Lachlan Stuart (14:42):
You said you've interviewed him a couple of
times and then you mentioned amoment or a couple of minutes
earlier like private jets andstuff.
Have you had any coolexperiences with him outside of
interviewing and stuff?
Zak Kuhn (14:53):
We've had some fun times traveling together and I
interviewed him on a red carpetat the ACM Awards and I
interviewed him for a magazinethat we did.
I interviewed him in the iHeartoffice and he's been very
generous with traveling atdifferent times.
Lachlan Stuart (15:12):
That's a good.
Yeah, I'll put it there.
Yeah, We'll leave it there.
But you obviously also are thefounder and CEO of Nashville
Briefing and it's like you covermusic and watching you do that
and learning a little bit moreabout that on the drive.
When I got to pick your brainaround, what it means to you,
how you put it together, I foundit fascinating.
But what inspired you or, forthe audience, what inspired you
(15:35):
to launch into that as well, ontop of everything else that
you're doing?
Because you are spinning a lotof plates and you're a very
efficient, you're a verymotivated individual and being
around people like yourselfmakes me want to do more.
Just being in your presence asmuch as you're always on.
I'm like man.
I could do a little bit more sofor you with the magazine.
Zak Kuhn (15:57):
I feel that way looking at you, because I'm not
as physical as you are and I'mnever going to do this challenge
that you're about to do 58marathons in 58 days.
I'm never going to do that inmy life, but when I see you do
it it makes me go.
If locky can do that, maybe Ican push myself physically a
little more.
And we're trying to get on somephysical exercise here.
I was working out this morning,locky, I just, I just want you
(16:18):
to know.
But um tell, yeah, get out ofhere, but the the newsletter I I
started the newsletter reallyout of.
I was at the ACM Awards inVegas, which is a big country
music award show, and I was atthis lunch with a group of
publicists who were saying thatthey wished that there was
another publication that wouldcover the country music news
(16:40):
that they could work with.
There really wasn't anything inthe space would cover the
country music news that theycould work with.
There really wasn't anything inthe space.
And I just sort of had thisthought that I could do that and
I had this confidence to itthat I felt like I could do it.
The idea really excited me andI remember I told a couple of
friends who I was with and Isaid Guys, I think I'm going to
start this country musicnewsletter.
(17:01):
It's come out every week.
It's going to cover the countrymusic industry.
And they said to me theyliterally said don't do that.
They said don't even tellpeople you're going to do that
because nobody follows throughon that kind of thing.
And then it's going to beembarrassing if you tell people
you're going to do it and youdon't follow through.
And that really motivated me todo it because I said no really
(17:29):
motivated me to do it.
Because I said no, no, I'mgonna show all you guys I'm
going to be able to do this.
So it started really simply.
I think I experienced this allthe time.
Maybe you see this too.
People come to me all the timeon advice on how to start a
podcast, and my advice is alwaysto just start.
My early episodes were recordedover an iPhone with a little app
.
The audio is bad, the questionsare bad, the artwork is bad,
it's bad, but there's no way Icould get to where I am now
(17:52):
without going through those repsof bad podcasts, and I'm sure
I'm going to look back in acouple years and think the
podcasts I'm doing now arecringe or whatever.
So the newsletter started outwith me just writing it every
day and I would send it to twopeople my brother and a friend
of mine who worked in mediabecause I felt like it was a
safe space.
I felt like they would give megood feedback while not judging
(18:16):
me or the quality of my work.
So initially it was those twofor a couple of weeks and I was
writing the newsletter every dayand eventually I said, okay,
I'm going to bring 10 friendsinto this and started sending it
to 10 friends and I startedtaking feedback and talking to
them about what kind ofinformation they would want to
see in the newsletter that wouldbe helpful.
(18:36):
Now there's 12 people on aMailChimp account.
Okay, this is not rocketscience.
I don't even think I had a logo.
Eventually I get a logo made,etc.
And those friends started tosay, can we share this with
people in our office?
Because I think it could reallybe helpful.
And then I knew I was startingto make something that was
(18:59):
valuable.
My friends were willing toshare it with someone else
because it would make them lookgood to share it with their boss
or with their coworker orwhatever.
It was going to give value tothe people around them, which is
always what I'm trying to dowith the national briefing,
because otherwise there's nopoint in it.
So that's when it started tospread.
But I was working another job atthe time, so this newsletter
(19:22):
thing was kind of a side projecttime.
So this newsletter thing waskind of a side project Come
COVID.
I was unemployed, sitting athome with nothing but a
newsletter and I said let me seeif I can really make this
newsletter work.
It's the only thing I have.
I probably thought I was goingto find another job, but I was
able to really work on thenewsletter, which has become
(19:44):
much more of a media company.
We're now doing print issues.
The podcast is looped in thewebsite.
We do events.
It's really become just a musicindustry media company and that
was the genesis of it.
That's where it started.
Lachlan Stuart (20:00):
You've been rejected a lot, or not even
rejected.
You've had a lot of peopledoubt you, even just from what
you've said there.
People said don't do thenewsletter.
There was also people tellingyou not to contact them anymore
or continue pursuing.
Yes, getting that rocking 100episode with Bobby Bones.
What drives you to keep going?
Because I find it veryfascinating with people.
(20:22):
There's generally people wholisten to that advice and they
play small and they end up quiteresentful or constantly ask
themselves what could have been.
And then there's people likeyourself who find a way to just
keep going and I'm very curiousas to are you motivated more by
the pain of not being enough orthe pleasure of what could be,
(20:44):
of not being enough, or thepleasure of what could be, maybe
a little bit of both.
Zak Kuhn (20:47):
I also think that that's a very good question.
I'm not very scared of failure.
Maybe I don't really care whatpeople think, and I also don't
really I like when I pullsomething off and people.
(21:09):
When I pulled off the BobbyBones thing, there was a period
of time where I was walkingaround Nashville and random
people would come up to me andbe like you're the guy who got
Bobby Bones on the podcast andthat's cool.
But that really is not whatmotivates me.
I like the challenge of pullingit off and the feeling of
success after pulling it off,and I think that's what really
(21:33):
excites me, and the idea ofpulling it off not even for
success sake, but just for thegratification that I pulled
something off that waschallenging or hard.
And I also think that I also gettalked out of a lot of things
all the time.
I'll have ideas that I'lldiscuss with people and people
will say that's not a great ideabecause X, y, z and have you
(21:54):
thought about this?
And a lot of times those peopleare right.
And then I look back on it andI go, oh my God, I can't believe
.
I thought that was a good idea,or I'll try the idea and it'll
fail and I go that person wasright, it wasn't that idea.
But I just think there's.
(22:14):
At the end of the day, there'scertain things that I do that I
just know are right, and I alsohave a lot of support from just
friends and family and peoplethat are the first to If I pitch
them a crazy idea and it seemsfun or funny to just be like
yeah go for it.
And I also.
There are people in my life.
(22:35):
I had a mentor in my life atone point who was such a
naysayer Everything I would talk, every idea I would talk about.
He would just shoot down and belike I would talk like every
idea I would talk about.
He would just shoot down and belike, ah, that's not a great
idea, right?
Yeah, that's that would.
That'll never work.
Or, uh, and I just stoppedgetting lunch with that guy,
like I just couldn't be aroundhim.
It was like, and he was a smartguy, but it was like I just
(22:55):
can't hang around you and Iliterally cut him years and
that's harsh.
And if you wanted to reconnectright now, I'd be happy to
reconnect with them and getlunch.
But I just really try to hangaround people that are going to
be positive and optimistic andhelp contribute to what I'm
trying to do, and I'm not afraidto cut people out.
(23:20):
But I'm also more okay workingalone than working with other
people, like some people say, oh, you should have, you should
bring in a partner, and I go whywould I want a partner?
I don't want to.
I don't want to work withanyone.
That being said, I have anamazing team on national
briefing that I can't workwithout, but but so much of what
I do is just is, it's just me,and you know I'm just trying to
(23:41):
challenge myself to do reallycool stuff.
Lachlan Stuart (23:45):
It's cool to hear that because I can relate a
lot to that through the senseof wanting to do hard things.
And there is like a certainsense of stuff when people say
you can't do that or youshouldn't do that.
I constantly get that and partof me is the things that I do,
much like what you're doing,zach.
(24:05):
It's not so much about thething in itself and achieving
that outcome, it's more so whatam I capable of?
Because every time I try tostretch myself, like you've done
with the magazine, the podcast,getting Bobby on and where
you're going.
It requires a better version ofyou like maybe different
connections, maybe you have tosolve certain problems and that
in itself is the satisfaction.
(24:27):
And I think part of you saidpain and pleasure motivate that.
It would be the same for me thepain of staying where I was or
even regressing to where I was Idon't want that but the
pleasure of what I could be orwho I could be, and the
influence that I could have,which is still so unknown, and
that excites me.
And I think I'll lean on painwhen I need to kick up the ass
(24:49):
and if I need a little bit ofinspiration, I'll move towards
the pleasure side of things, andthat's what enables us to go,
and I feel so many people thatwould be listening to this
struggle to get moving becausethey're so focused on the
outcome and whether it's a goodor a bad outcome that defines
them.
And for you, it sounds like,zach, that it's just that next
(25:12):
step around.
Okay, I've overcome variousthings to achieve this Awesome
pat on the back.
Now, what's next?
So do you worry about?
Well, actually, first questiondo you feel content with where
you're at?
Zak Kuhn (25:28):
Well, first of all, I want to comment on one other
thing going back, which is Ialso think about.
We're recording this inNovember and it is end of year.
People always think about theend of the year.
Part of what happens is I getto this point in the middle of
the year where I go go.
Have I done enough to make thisyear count?
(25:49):
And I really feel thatgenuinely, and I usually like to
do a couple crazy things everyyear so I can look back on it
and say this was a productiveyear, because I did a couple
crazy things and other stuff too.
Takes a lot to look back on ayear and have it be productive,
but when I think about the bobbystunt, that was like a
(26:10):
monumental moment of that wholeyear.
And then there was anotherthing I did that year too.
Within the same week I made myBroadway debut in New York in
the pit of Wicked playing guitar, and I had six days to get
ready to go into the pit andthat was another lifelong dream
and I was able to do both thosethings in about a four-week
window.
And there's stuff this year.
There's interviews I've done.
(26:31):
The print issues we starteddoing this year have been
monumental.
So I always think it's fun tohave a couple things every year
that are huge and monumental andI feel like that makes me feel
like I'm doing enough.
To tie it into the questionthat you just asked, I feel like
when I'm doing things that arecrazy challenging, crazy hard, I
(27:00):
do have more of a feeling oflike I am doing enough, but it
comes and goes.
It's a constant balance of Ireally do feel satisfied.
When I had Bradad paisley on mypodcast this year, that really
felt like, okay, I'm doingsomething right and I really
felt that.
I was just in la last week andI interviewed for my podcast the
ceo of fender guitars and I'vebeen playing fender guitars my
whole life and I flew to la todo the interview.
(27:23):
I was in LA for about 48 hourslast 32 hours did the interview
and that was a really satisfyingfeeling of I'm doing something
right in the space that I wantto be doing and that makes me
feel really good.
But sometimes I feel like I'mnot doing enough.
Right now I'm struggling withsomething, which is I was going
(27:44):
through this phase where mypodcast was getting massive
views on YouTube.
I was cutting up clips andacross my clips on episodes, I
was getting millions of viewsand now I'm putting out content
that, in my mind, is equally ashigh and the views are down.
So I'm trying to hack it.
I'm trying to say do I need tochange my thumbnails?
(28:06):
Today I'm ABing two differentthumbnails on the same video
that you can do with YouTube,and I'm doing the same thing
with titles and I'm playing withmy titles and I'm trying to
figure out is it guests thatspike my views?
And that is really frustratingto me and sometimes I catch
myself going oh, the reason theviews are down is because the
podcast sucks.
(28:27):
Nobody wants to listen.
That's the internal conversationI have with myself when I'm in
the shower in the morning andI'm stuck with only my thoughts.
Reference Seth Godin again, buthe has this other quote that
(28:48):
the really the important thingthat I try to think about is the
practice, and I try to get mypractice right.
Seth wrote a whole book about,called the Practice, which is a
great read on this topic.
But I try to hold myself in thebelief and understanding that
the practice is the only thing Ican control.
The only thing I can control isdoing episodes of my podcast
(29:08):
every week and running tests totry to hack the algorithm and
playing with thumbnails, and ifsomething's not working, the
thing I can control is trying todo other things to try to fix
it and the outcome is theoutcome.
And it's funny because peoplesometimes say to me oh, I just
listened to your podcast episodeand I loved it.
And that's funny because peoplesometimes say to me oh, I just
listened to your podcast episodeand I loved it, and that's
(29:30):
always great.
But it's always weird to mebecause I actually don't make
these podcast episodes, eventhough I want people to listen
to them.
This is going to sound crazy.
I want people to listen to thepodcast and the more people
listen to it, the more money youcan make on advertising and the
more your profile can grow andyou get better guests.
But I do the podcast for myselfbecause I love hosting the
(29:51):
episodes every week and I lovethe practice of having the
conversations, becoming a betterasker of questions, becoming a
better podcaster.
This week I'm doing episodes onthe podcast of guests that I
think are not Bobby Bones andare not Andy Mooney, the CEO
offender, and that's just asexciting because I'm
(30:13):
interviewing people who don'thave that crazy career
trajectory, but they've doneamazing stuff in their own right
.
And how do I show that in thepodcast and engage people and
get people interested?
And that's its own challenge.
And I know that I recorded acouple of episodes this week
that are not going to get asmany views as I think this
episode with the CEO offender isgoing to get.
(30:34):
But that's not why I do thepodcast.
I do it for just the practiceof doing it every week and I
really enjoy it.
If you don't enjoy that, maybeyou shouldn't start a podcast,
but that's why I do it.
And to answer your originalquestion, I go in and out of
phases of feeling like I'm doingenough, but most of the time I
(30:56):
do not.
I I get frustrated because whatI actually think is I don't
have enough time.
I I feel like I'm doingeverything I can do because I
work all the can.
I curse, I work all the fuckingtime lock.
You don't understand like Iwork so much.
(31:16):
So I I sometimes don't thinkthat I'm not doing enough, but
sometimes what I honestly thinkis that what I am doing is not
good enough or it's not, it'snot gonna work, or I'm doing the
wrong things and that reallystresses me out.
I'm doing something pretty muchevery moment of the day just
about, or I'm taking a nap, um,but what does really stress me
(31:41):
out is that what I'm doing isnot enough, or it's not going to
be, or it's not going to work,or that.
Not that what I'm doing is notenough, but that the quality of
the work is not good enough.
That stresses me out.
Lachlan Stuart (31:57):
I can relate to everything you've just said and
I feel like and I've said thisto Amy and Emma and stuff before
I feel like you're me like acouple of years ago, when I
started in business 10 years agothis year, and I definitely you
take it back to what you weretalking about.
What's it like to start apodcast?
Even the same with what's itlike to start a business In the
(32:19):
beginning?
Everything you do sucks like itdoes.
You don't have systems, youdon't know how to write content
or market or even deliver yourservice very well, but that's
what you've got to figure outalong the way.
And then you'll go throughtimes where, for me, I'll have
big years financially or I'llland a client who's got a really
big profile, or same with thepodcast.
(32:40):
I'll have massive months ofdownloads and I'm like I've hit
it, let's go, let's take offhere of downloads.
And I'm like I've hit it, let'sgo, let's take off here.
And then it crashes and you'relike what is it?
Is it the thumbnail, is it theguests?
All of the things that you said, or have I not marketed myself
enough?
And it's like this rollercoaster that is fun when you
become aware of that.
That's part of the way I see itas part of life.
(33:02):
But when I was starting out, Ijust thought I had to be burning
in this upward trajectory.
So when it wasn't going thatdirection, I would be working
literally from 5 am to like 10plus at night, big days, and I
was to the point where Iwouldn't eat food.
I was always under eating.
Training was sacrificed becauseI had this burning desire to
(33:23):
prove myself and also I wantedto see what I was capable of.
And to your point as well, whenyou start thinking about maybe
I'm not doing things well, howcould I do them better?
You mentioned you've got agreat team behind you with the
Nashville Briefing.
I then went maybe I need abusiness partner, and so I got
into a business partnershipwhich absolutely tanked and it
(33:44):
cost me a lot of money, and Irecognized which you already
know for yourself it's likethat's not the route for me.
I just need to work out how I'mgoing to do this.
But the main thing or the onething that has kept me going and
I assume it's the one thingthat's keeping you going is you
just love what you do.
You have done it before you gotpaid and you still continue to
(34:05):
do it, even though you may notget paid as much as you will
eventually get paid with throughthe fact that you just love
interviewing people.
Like I'm so curious aboutlearning more about you and the
last 15 minutes was soinsightful for me that week in,
week out, I'll show up because Ilove learning about people and
it's sort of.
One of my major sponsorsYesterday said to me I was like
(34:31):
I can't believe how much supportI've got for this run.
You know the companies that havepartnered with us and
everything, and he's like Lockie.
You've got to recognize thatthis is the last X amount of
years of you.
Showing up consistently is thereason why brands want to
partner with you.
So, even though you struggledfor all of those years and you
felt like you weren't makingprogress or you weren't good
enough or what you were doingwasn't good enough, it is.
(34:52):
So take this.
I wanted to share that becauseI can definitely relate to.
The question that I had nextwas what will it take for you to
feel like you've arrived, likeyou've made that point.
Zak Kuhn (35:05):
I don don't know.
I think about that too a lot,and I don't know if I'll ever
feel that way, because sometimesI think about, sometimes I try
to put myself in the in theshoes of people that I really
admire, and I go okay, if I hadeverything that Bobby Bones has,
(35:28):
would I feel like I had enough,or I made it, and I always
think, well, yes, but then Iwould want to do these other
things, or I would want to addto it, or I would want to do
something.
So I don't know when that is,but something that.
But I think that the like rightnow it's the phase of the
(35:51):
company where everything isworking and it's great.
But if a couple clients canceltheir advertising, or if a
couple like if, if somethinghappens, you know, the house is
a little shaky.
If something happens, the houseis a little shaky.
And I think when the housefeels like, okay, even if a
(36:19):
hurricane came through and brokesome windows or a tree fell on
half of it or whatever, it wouldstill survive, then I think it
would be a little bit more likeI've really built something
powerful here.
But it's interesting becauseeven at this stage of the
company, we're already sellingadvertising for next year, 2025.
And the advertising that wesold for 2025 is not even
advertising that we've reallygone out and pitched.
(36:39):
It's clients coming to us andlocking in space for next year.
So I do sometimes think I don'teven know if I could shut this
down, because all of a suddenI'm locked into doing certain
things next year, whether I wantto or not, and I do.
But I'm locked in because Ihave advertisers now who are
(37:01):
paying for it, so now I'mcommitted to do it.
So I don't know it's a goodquestion and I don't know if I
have the answer and I mightnever get to that point.
But hopefully you can just feela little more.
You know, I feel like I turneddown a lot of social things to
(37:23):
work on my projects, to work onmy projects, and I think lately
I've started to try and not dothat as much, because you look
back on a lot of things and yougo, oh I don't even remember
what I was working on, but Imissed that social thing, and
then when you do do socialthings, they stand out in your
head more.
So I'm trying to do To go bepresent during more social
(37:48):
things, and I think that whenyou have the confidence to show
up for really important socialthings and not be worried that
your company is going to fallapart.
If you go out for one night ordo something, that might be the
time when you feel a little moresecure or confident in what
you've built.
But I don't know.
It's a tough question.
What do you think?
Lachlan Stuart (38:09):
Well, I think a lot about this and I've thought
a lot about it, especially aswe've moved overseas and getting
married and things like that,and I work with a lot of CEOs
and very successful people and Ialways.
There was a book that I read anumber of years ago and I think
I spoke about this on yourpodcast the top five regrets of
(38:31):
the dying by Bronnie Waugh.
She's an Australian palliativecare nurse and basically she
started gaining insights and youknow, making research around
what people regretted on theirdeathbed.
And when I started reading thatand I then started talking to
my clients and saw the positionsthey were in, there were
certain things that I loved andI really aspired to have.
(38:52):
But quite often we focus onwhat people have, not what they
sacrificed or missed out on toget there.
So, even a lot now and it willbe where we go from here what I
want to understand about peopleis what they sacrifice and what
goes on up here in order toachieve that, because that then
helps me understand from abigger picture perspective
(39:15):
around.
Am I prepared to do that?
So in the beginning of business, I was prepared to do anything
to have my own business and doit for ego, do it for money.
Do it for like I felt goodbusiness.
And do it for ego.
Do it for money, do it for likeI felt good.
As I've gotten older once again,a lot of men that I work with
they aren't happy in theircareers.
They've got themselves lockedinto a position where,
(39:35):
financially, they have to stickit out because they've got
mortgages, a lot ofresponsibilities, families etc.
That are used to this level ofincome, but as a result, they've
sacrificed.
They might be on their secondmarriage or their marriage is
not very good, their health isshocking and they don't spend
any time with their friends.
So when I look at that, I'mlike I don't want those things.
(39:56):
No amount of money is worththat to me.
So to answer your question whenyou've asked it back, zach, is
I look at that and I go, okay, Iwant that thing, but I don't
want these things.
So what would it look like inmy business and in my life for
me to be able to have that andthose?
Because if I just said, oh,it's not possible, I'm not
(40:17):
practicing what I preach Now I'mnot saying it's easy, but the
life that I've built.
Now I earn a certain amount ofincome.
And when I hit that level ofincome, my goal was okay, how do
I maintain this income whiletraveling?
How do I maintain this incomewhile getting to do awesome
things that I want to do the 58marathons, for example?
How do I maintain that incomewhile getting to do whatever I
(40:40):
want with my wife?
And that's then shifted.
How I've had to structure mybusiness but also structure my
time.
That's then shifted.
How I've had to structure mybusiness but also structure my
time.
One of the biggest fears that Ihad, zach, that you mentioned
earlier, was if I step away, thehouse of cards could fall, and
that is freaking scary becauseyou know how much time and
energy and sacrifice you've putinto building that.
(41:02):
But the only way I was able tofind out whether it would stand
or crumble was to take time away, and through that time away I
was able to go okay, that needsto be fine-tuned.
I need a better system here.
I maybe need to, whatever itwas, to sort of deal with that,
and that's made my business morebulletproof, but it's also
(41:23):
allowed me to mentally separatemyself to invest in other areas.
Now some people, business isn'ttheir priority.
It might be.
Hey, I spend a lot of time withmy family and I work nine to
five, which is completely fine,but I want to get my health back
, okay.
So how do I start managing that?
And that's where we look at, Iguess, scheduling time, and for
(41:44):
me I've zoomed out a little bitand I go okay, the things that
they represent.
So money, my marriage, my timewith my friends and the hobbies
that I have is health is a veryimportant value, adventure is a
very important value, connectionis a very important value and
freedom is a very importantvalue.
And how I get those will changethrough different phases of my
(42:08):
life and that, to me, is what'smost important.
So most of the decisions that Imake and sorry for the
long-winded answer, we'll comeback to that Is this going to
help me 10 years' time?
Is this still going to alignwith health?
And, similar to what you said,I've cut people out of my life
because I haven't felt connectedto them anymore.
That season's passed, butthere's new people that have
(42:32):
come in and I'm stillexperiencing connection that's
ticked just with differentpeople.
And then freedom.
Freedom for me is mental Idon't want to feel attached to
my career where I can't stepaway, but it's also financial
and time.
So if I do have children, I canbe a stay-at-home dad if I want
, or if I do want to take twomonths off and run around the
(42:52):
world or run around thosecountries, I can still do that
and not be able to pay mymortgage.
And to me, that sort of helpedme with that and it's been so
hard to do.
Zach, in regards to steppingback, but the best thing that I
did was move like moving toAmerica really helped me reset a
lot of relationships that Iguess were holding me back.
(43:14):
So that was a long-windedanswer there.
Zak Kuhn (43:18):
No, that makes a lot of sense.
And I was the kid that you know.
I went to music school and Iplayed guitar.
I was the kid that on Fridaynight, while everyone was out
partying, I was in my parents'basement learning how to play
guitar.
Experiences because I wasplaying guitar.
(43:46):
And looking back, I feel bothways about it, because all the
stuff that you see in the moviesI didn't really do that in high
school, a little bit towardsthe end of my senior year when I
was already in college.
But then I think if I hadn'tdone that, I wouldn't be able to
play guitar and there's no wayI would have learned or have had
the time to put that much timeinto it.
And I and now I think about I'mso grateful that I put that
(44:08):
time in when I was younger tolearn the instrument, because
now I don't have time topractice guitar for five, six,
eight hours a day.
Yeah, so, so it's, so it's.
It's a funny thing where, youknow, I don't know where the
balance is, but you know I tryto just do whatever I want to do
most in that moment and ifthat's working out or not
(44:29):
working out, but working on aproject, that's what it is where
sometimes I will crave thefeeling that I need to go out
and be social or I need to hangwith someone or just be.
I'll get lonely on a Fridaynight and a lot of Friday nights
I'm home working, but sometimesI'll just be.
You know, I'll get lonely on aFriday night and a lot of Friday
nights I'm home, working, butsometimes I'll just say I got to
get out and hang with somefriends or do something.
So yeah, so it's always asliding scale, lockie.
(44:53):
It's all over the place.
Lachlan Stuart (44:56):
And I think, if we were to look at that, I feel
like life's always full ofregret and people are trying to
avoid having regrets, which iswhy we overthink things or we
don't want to.
You know, FOMO is the word it'sabout like, which regret could
I live with?
Because you're very clear onwhat you're working towards,
zach, and not everyone is, and Ifeel like I am as well, and
(45:18):
there's people who haveabsolutely no idea.
And to those people I would belike just go, have as many new
experiences as possible untilyou find the things that you
enjoy, and then maybe they mightlead to careers or social
groups, et cetera.
But when you find that thingthat you can't stop thinking
about, which you've obviouslyfound, it is very hard and it is
very even for me to say to youhey, stop doing that.
(45:41):
I couldn't do that because Idon't know what really motivates
you and why you want to do itand where you hope it's going to
take you.
And so for me, oh, yeah, yeah,no, keep going no, no, no, you
go.
Zak Kuhn (45:53):
Well, I was gonna say there was when I was in college.
There was, um.
I had the opportunity to studyabroad in spain.
I went to Berkeley College ofMusic and you could study abroad
in Valencia, spain.
And I had a bunch of friends whodid it and I was like I worked
my ass off to get to Berkeley.
(46:14):
Why am I going to take asemester away from this campus?
I'm here to learn guitar andmusic and I took music business
classes and I'm not going tostep guitar and music and I'm,
and I took music businessclasses and like I'm not gonna
step away and go to spain for amonth or for a semester.
And I think some people that'slike that was why they went to
college, because they wanted toget away and they wanted to
(46:35):
experience the world and thatwas really important to them.
But for me, I don't even.
I have no regrets about that, Idon't even think about it like
I, like I don't.
I think I would have regret ifI had gone to spain.
Like to me, that's what I,that's, that was the thing.
So I think it just depends whatexactly.
Like you said, if you have yournorth star, you know you're not
(46:56):
going to regret not followingit.
But you know, for other people,that trip to spain might have
been life-changing too, which isamazing.
Lachlan Stuart (47:04):
But I think you just have to know yourself and
what you're trying to go after100%, and that's the key there,
and I think that's why it'simpossible to be able to comment
on what is right or wrong foran individual.
But that's why I love evenbeing able to unpack what's in
your mind, and I'm glad we sortof dove into the sacrifices
around things that are important, because sacrifices are part of
(47:26):
that journey, and a lot ofpeople may have seen you on the
billboards and see what you'redoing in the world and in your
business and career now andthey're like I want to do that.
Therefore, I'm just going to doexactly what Zach's done I'm
going to play shows with Shepard, I'm going to launch a magazine
, I'm going to launch a podcast.
But you've sacrificed a lot ofstuff that you would have
(47:47):
enjoyed, as you said a lot ofsocial outings, probably family
things.
What are some of the keysacrifices that have stood out
for you?
And I know you said the socialones, but are there anything
else that you've?
Zak Kuhn (47:58):
I think touring with Shepard has been a sacrifice in
a good way, but I'll tell youwhy.
I mean I spent a lot of timeout with you guys this year,
probably spent in total like amonth of the road, because we
did three weeks together.
We did two weeks Maybe longer,maybe longer, and for my
business, which is a reallyimportant thing for me, the
(48:20):
touring with you guys didn'treally have a direct correlation
to national briefing.
Now, you said this when, when Iwas interviewing you and if you
saw me in the road are we good?
yeah, you're good.
Oh you, you had said this whenwe were talking um, uh, that you
know, if you saw me on the roadwith shepherd, you would see
that on these long drives I'd beon my computer sending emails
(48:45):
and working, we'd soundcheck andthen I'd do more work and then
we'd play the show, we'd pack upand if we were driving
somewhere I'd usually be workingon my computer in the van as
we've been driving and I wasalways making phone calls and
trying to get things done.
And no doubt that touring withyou guys had some even if it's
small impact on my business ofyou know.
(49:07):
I was able to maintain thelevel of it, but maybe it didn't
excel or maybe there were otherthings that could have been
working.
But for me, I love playingguitar and I love getting the
opportunity to do that, and itwas actually very energizing to
go out on the road with you guysand even though it was
exhausting, it was creatively areally fun outlet to be able to
(49:30):
get up on stage and to playthose songs and to be forced to
play guitar, because oftentimesI'll go long stretches without
really honing in on my guitarplaying because I might not have
a gig or I'm working on otherthings, and when you go out with
a band like Shepard, you've gotto be in really top shape.
So I was forced to carve outtime to practice and to work on
(49:54):
the material and just to be outevery night playing with you
guys.
So that felt like a sacrificeright there, but it was worth it
because it was energizing atthe same time and also I think
that sometimes when you stepaway from what you're doing and
you go into a different outlet,it can bring different
perspective or different ideas,kind of like you mentioned a
second ago 100%, but that wasequally as such.
Lachlan Stuart (50:17):
One of the inspiring things from my
perspective is that tool was sogrueling and one minute you're
playing shows, we're loading in,we're loading out, we're trying
to find food, but for me, tosee the extra effort that you
went in or put in sorry, tostill be making the phone calls
and doing what you need to do onyour own business I was like
that You're one of the onlyother people that I've met that
(50:38):
does that, because that'ssimilar to you.
I'm up training and then I'mdoing my work and then we're
doing the gigs, and a lot ofpeople don't necessarily
understand that, and so for meit was like I found someone who
has that same, I guess wants tocontinue to use shepherd as the
example on the outside.
(50:58):
It's like you want to playthose and have those moments
with them, which is what I do,as as the husband as well, but I
also equally, as such, want toput a lot of energy and effort
into what I'm achieving, whichjust means it's a big, bloody
day and it's it's hard work, butit's so freaking sweet and
that's I mean for me, with myexperiences of touring as a
musician that's always myexperience.
Zak Kuhn (51:23):
I'm a side man, so I'm out helping other people's
dreams come true.
I'm contributing to someoneelse's vision and I've toured a
lot as a side man.
I toured with an artist thatwas on Warner called Temecula
Road.
I did probably 2 years withthem, doing probably close to 80
dates a year.
Same experience.
(51:43):
I'd be in the van working, we'ddo the gig, I'd get back to
working.
When I think about touring, thatjust comes with it.
I'm going to be working nonstop, but I feel like I am
contributing to someone else'scareer.
I'm also hopefully having funwhile I'm on stage, but if I'm
not pushing my career forward,then it feels like it was a
(52:06):
waste of time.
I have to be doing both inorder to feel good about taking
the time out to tour and to beon the road.
Otherwise, I feel pretty guiltyabout it because I feel like
I'm neglecting my business andmy assets and my things, that
I've done so.
A lot of the times when you seeme on tour and I'm working
overtime, it's really not that Iwant to be doing it, I am just
(52:27):
quite literally scared to not bedoing it, and that, for me, can
be a pretty big motivator.
Lachlan Stuart (52:33):
Dude, you've just unpacked my mind as well.
1000% it's supporting others,but I'm that side man in that
position.
But for me it's like I want tobuild something for myself, I
want to pursue my potential,which means that's the hours
that I have to do it.
I have to get it done,regardless of if I'm tired or if
I haven't eaten.
It's just.
That is my commitment to myselfand that's what I think makes
(52:55):
people rise above.
The rest is because it's veryeasy to go.
Oh, I only had four hours sleeplast night, or one day off
won't hurt.
But when you as we've saidcountless times you found that
North Star or that thing thatkeeps you awake at night because
you're so excited about it,you'll find a way to make that
happen.
Another thing that I wanted toquickly dive into and I know
(53:17):
we're nearly at the end here isyour ability to network.
So we can look at that from twolenses.
The first one is internally.
It takes a lot or I believedoes because of self-doubt or
we're worried about fear ofjudgment to continue to build
your network.
And when I say, get into theareas that you want to be and
(53:41):
that are going to help propelyour career forward or meet the
people that you want to meet,that are going to help propel
your career forward, or meet thepeople that you want to meet.
That's challenging, right.
So for me, that's a lot ofinternal thought that we have to
overcome or doubt.
The second side is how do wepresent ourselves to have enough
value to be invited into thoseareas?
So would we be able to startjust quickly with you?
You're one of the most knownpeople in Nashville I've ever
met.
You walk down the street withyou and everyone knows you.
(54:01):
Okay, you're one of the mostconnected people and I would
love to know how someone likeyourself, who moved from New
York to Nashville, hasestablished such a great network
in such a short period of time,and how have you allowed
yourself to elevate with thelevel of influence that you've
now got?
Zak Kuhn (54:30):
When I moved to Nashville I was unemployed.
I knew a couple people and Ibought a directory that had the
emails of all of the powerplayers in the music business in
Nashville and I sat on my couchand I wrote cold emails to them
that basically begging to getcoffee, and maybe 1 out of 10.
Let's say 2 out of 10 wouldrespond to me.
1 out of 10 would agree tocoffee.
And that's how I started to getin the door, was just meeting
(54:54):
people and sometimes thosepeople would have a good meeting
with me and they would respectmy hustle and what I was doing
and they would introduce me toother people.
And that was the early stagesof it.
The other thing I did literallywhen I was in Nashville was
there's a great book by KeithFerrazzi called Never Eat Alone,
(55:14):
which I had read around thattime and it was pretty impactful
.
But one of the things I woulddo when I moved to Nashville was
literally commit myself tonever eating alone and it didn't
matter who it was.
I would find a way to havebreakfast, lunch and dinner with
someone and that meant havingbreakfast, lunch and dinner with
a lot of pretty weird people.
(55:34):
I'm just going to put it outthere, because it was a
challenge I held to myself,which is I just need to be with
someone right now and I would goout every night and I would
just meet people and say, hey,we should get coffee, we should
get this, we should get whatever.
So that was a big part of it,and I think the other thing too
is you alluded to it which isthe best thing for my network,
(56:00):
because there's been a couple,couple phases of my networking.
I would say Phase one was likehustle, hustle, hustle.
Try to meet as many people as Ican.
Get coffee with everyone, getdinner with everyone, get lunch
with everyone, show up atpeople's offices, and that maybe
gets you in the door and getsyou started.
That's a good thing to do.
If you have that kind of youngenergy.
Then, as you start to buildsomething, it's like the
(56:30):
networking comes to me.
People email me all the timeasking to get coffee or wanting
to get together or pitching methings.
So it's like the most importantthing really is making yourself
appealing for other people andthey're going to find you and
reach out to you.
And then networking becomeslike Step one is like you're on
this uphill, you're going uphilland now I'm going downhill,
where not only are peoplereaching out to me, but if there
(56:51):
is someone I want to reach outto, there's a level of
credibility, whether it's aguest on the podcast.
I can email someone I say I'dlove to have you on the podcast.
By the way, I've also had thesefive other people, so then that
gives some motivation and somecredibility for them to come
onto the podcast.
So it's all a process, but it'sjust.
(57:14):
It's a lot of little things is,I think, what makes a great
network.
And the other thing too is youhave to figure out what you want
to do.
I'm very good at networking inthe Nashville space and the
music industry at large, but I'mhorrible at networking in other
industries.
Maybe that's not giving myselfenough credit, but I think the
(57:36):
reason is that when I network inthe music industry, people can
sense because you can't reallyfake this they can sense that
I'm all in and I hope peoplethink, oh, it's a matter of when
, not if, if this guy's gonnamake it and I want to get on the
train.
And I think I'm able to conveya level of dedication that when
I reach out to someone in, likeyou know, some other industry
(57:58):
and I don't have the samesuccess.
I think I'm not conveying thelevel that I'm passionate about
sports or whatever, whatever itmay be.
The other thing, too, aboutnetworking that I think is
important to keep in mind is Iremember locking in these
massive early meetings when Imoved to Nashville with the
heads of labels and really bigmanagers and publicists and all
(58:21):
these people that I think saidyes to me because I just told
them I was a college kid whojust graduated and moved to a
new city and could I stop by andsay hi for 15 minutes or 20
minutes.
And I remember going into thesemeetings and thinking that this
meeting with this person isgoing to change my life, because
they're going to hire me orthey're going to give me some
opportunity or just knowing themis going to be life altering,
(58:45):
life changing.
And I would leave thosemeetings and I'd be like, holy
shit, nothing happened.
Now I know that person.
That was a waste.
But then you go down this pathand you start networking.
You're meeting people, you'remeeting people and all of a
sudden you meet someone who sayswait a second, you met with
so-and-so.
I've been dying to meet withso-and-so.
(59:06):
Can you connect me?
And you go.
You know what you two shouldknow each other.
I can't believe you don't.
And then you're able to connectthose dots, and that doesn't
change your life either.
But all of a sudden it startsto build some equity and it
starts to provide value to yournetwork.
And the best thing you can sayabout a network is the more you
(59:29):
put into it, the more you'll getout of it.
And the other thing I likeabout the other networking tip I
like is from Dale Carnegie'show to Win Friends and Influence
People, which is just greeteveryone the way a dog greets
their master.
If you can greet everyone theway a dog greets you when you
walk in the door, you're doingsomething right.
(59:51):
That's excitement, energy.
Maybe lick their face a littlebit, okay, maybe don't do that.
Don't be a Doberman and slobbereverywhere, don't do that, but
that's always a good mentalityto have as well.
Lachlan Stuart (01:00:05):
Make people feel warm and valued is the key.
That book there that yourecommended, dude, that was
incredible insights.
Even I remember when you weretelling me that when we were
driving to Malibu and I was justlike this guy is a wizard, and
I've got some similarcomparisons with that, but, zach
, I've really appreciated yourtime.
Zach Kuhn, everybody.
(01:00:27):
Zach, firstly, you are worthy,you were loved and you are
inspiring, and I want to let youknow that you aren't a sideman,
you are the man and you'rebuilding something special, and
I'm proud to have you as a mateand also someone that I look up
to in the way that you conductyourself and present yourself in
business and in life, and Ilook forward to many more tours
(01:00:49):
while we're in the States andwatching your continued success.
So, everybody, zach Kuhn, thehost of the Zach Kuhn Show and
founder of Nashville Briefing,tuning in from the man that Can
Project.
As always, do something todayto be better for tomorrow.
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