Stephanie Harvey (missharvey) Five-Time Esports World Champion and Gaming Advocate

Stephanie Harvey, known by her in-game screen name, "missharvey", is a Canadian video game developer, professional gamer, and five time world champion e-sports player. She is also a woman who successfully manages the challenges of competing in Esports at the highest level. Dr. Shepp and Stephanie talk about navigating the uncontrollable variables in gaming & e-sports as well as the challenges that players can face in the online community as a successful gamer. 

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Follow Stephanie on Twitter @missharvey

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Learn more about Dr. Shepp  at SportandPerform.com

Podcast transcripts coming soon at: ManageTheMoment.net

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Music by Brad Buxer

Episode Transcript

Dr. Shepp (00:08):
Thanks for tuning in to manage the moment
conversations in performancepsychology.
I'm Dr.
Sari Shepphird.

Steph Harvey (00:16):
Every time that I was about to lose my spot on a
team, whether it's because ofcommitment or performance and
whatnot, these are always life.
Like make it or break it kind ofsituations where you either quit
or you come back stronger.
Um, and I think that's whatmakes a great champion.

(00:38):
Right?
And I, every time I came backstronger, but right now I'm
deciding at the moment I'd comeback stronger or if I'm waiting
and it's the hardest decisionI've ever made in my life
because all I can think about iswith Michael Jordan quit.
Would the Roger Federer quit ifhe knew he could still win?

Dr. Shepp (01:01):
Stephanie Harvey known by her screen name.
Ms.
Harvey is a Canadian video gamedeveloper and five time world
champion e-sports player.
She is also a woman who is morethan adept at managing the
challenges of competing inE-sports at the professional
level.
I spoke with Stephanie about howshe navigates the uncontrollable
variables in gaming, and esportsas well as the challenges that

(01:22):
players can face among theonline community as a successful
gamer.
She also shares her belief thatlearning how to fail is one of
the most important things youcan do to achieve success.
Stephanie is an advocate.
She is an innovator and she is achampion and I'm excited to
share our conversation with you.
Hi Stephanie.

(01:42):
I'm so happy to be talking toyou today.
Um, you're not only a topperformer in your field with
five world champions behind yourbelt, but you're also a pioneer
and an innovator.
Thanks so much for joining metoday.

Steph Harvey (01:54):
Thank you so much for having me.

(01:56):
Absolutely.
I, I'm really excited to speakwith you about your experience.
I know that many peoplelistening will be familiar with
your career, but also manypeople taking part in our
conversation today, um, won'thave as much of a background in
e-sports.
And so it'll be great just tohear about your experience as
this field has exploded so muchin the past few years.

(02:18):
Um, but also because you have aunique experience being a woman
in e-sports.
Now I say that kind ofcautiously because as we'll talk
about a lot of women playe-sports, but not a lot, lot of
women compete in e-sports.
So let's talk about yourbackground and you, you are
someone who's been a gamer, yousay your whole life.

Steph Harvey (02:36):
Yeah, I've been playing, uh, for as long as I
remember.
I wasn't always that intense,but I've always had a console or
a computer to play games at home, uh, as young as I can
remember.
And in a sense you say we're allgamers?
I think so because it doesn'thave to be video games, but we
all play at some point in ourlife and most of us playing, um,

(03:01):
throughout all life, whetherit's video games, which was
board games or what not,crosswords, puzzles, you know,
these are all games.
And that's why I also believethat everyone can be a video
game player they'd be using tofind kind of what fits them the
best.

Dr. Shepp (03:19):
Well, I, I'll embarrass myself by saying, I
recently bought a console, anupright console with a bunch of
eighties and nineties gamespacked into, packed onto the
motherboard.

Steph Harvey (03:29):
Oh yeah, l ike Nintendo and such.
Yeah.
Like Atari and Sega and[inaudible].
C ool.

Dr. Shepp (03:39):
Um, but, but of course it puts me in a totally
different class than you, butyou've been, you've been a pro
gamer now, um, for, for quitesome time.
In fact, in your field, you're,you're just about at the age of
retirement.
Um, but tell me a little bitabout how you got into
competitive gaming.

Steph Harvey (03:55):
Um, it was very, everyone say randomly.
Uh, it was when I started gamingin high school on a specific
game called Counter Strike thegame.
I still played todaycompetitively.
U m, so it's been over 16 yearsand it was the most popular game
at the time.
And e veryone around myneighborhood was k ind o f

(04:16):
playing it and to fit in and beable to go to prom w ith, with
this guy, I really wanted tostart playing and get close to
him and his friends and I,that's how I started playing CS.
But it took me a little bitbefore becoming competitive.
I think at first I was just likeproud to be a part of this
community even though I wasn'treally good.

(04:37):
I was there, y ou know?
But i f i t was t he bottom ofthe scoreboard, I could hang out
on new week, week nights orweekends with them at local
events and whatnot.
And u m, it was only like maybesix months later that, u h,
other girls found me and theywere like, Hey, let's compete
together.
And that's when I got my firstdays of the competition.

Dr. Shepp (04:59):
I think it's wonderful that you still
experience gaming as a reallycollaborative sport.
And I know you've mentioned thatyou feel one of the things about
being a female gamer is thatthere's great collaboration and
communication that takes placebetween women who are on the
same team.

Steph Harvey (05:17):
Yeah, I think it's super important actually because
, um, there are still littlewomen can competitive or
competing that you can't reallybe picky on the players that you
pick.
If there's conflict, you can'tjust kind of drop that girl and
pick up another one becausethere's no one else.
So it's, it's, it's pretty mucha, a matter of kinda going

(05:39):
through the issues together andkind of growing as humans and
learning how to solve problemsand how to communicate properly.
And all of that makes, I think,female gaming very interesting
and different than, um, uh, mostof their regular teams, maybe
not as a top.
I think nowadays because it'sbecoming a more and more popular

(05:59):
and lucrative field, the topteams kind of want to stay more
stable and have to go throughthese issues.
But before, uh, becoming pros.
And I think before, um, havinglongterm contracts, big players,
I kinda like moving around allthe time, being very unstable,
every competition, everyweekend, changing teams or

(06:22):
whatnot.
Uh, and it's something that I'venever really faced on a female
team because, uh, kind, kindahad to work through our issues.

Dr. Shepp (06:31):
Well, you bring up important points about being a
successful gamer in generalbecause most professional
players are going to be on somekind of a team.
Um, unless you're, you know,streaming and that's how you
earn your, your, your living.
But if, if you're competitiveplayer, you're going to be on
some kind of team or you'regoing to be playing a
multiplayer game.
So communication is extremelyimportant, isn't it?

Steph Harvey (06:50):
Yeah, and a lot of the games, uh, I think calm is
more important than skills.

Dr. Shepp (07:02):
All right, so before we go any further, maybe we need
a little bit of a dictionaryhere.
Some terms in e-sports you maynot be familiar with.
So let's define those before wego on"Comm": That just refers to
communication, communicationbetween team members or
communication with your coaches,among the coaching staff.

"Streaming" (07:20):
streaming refers to video game streaming, which
allows fans to watch theirfavorite players in action in
the game in real time on theweb.
Some e-sports players earn theirliving through streaming alone
by recording themselves, playingin the game and sometimes also
interacting with viewers as theydo.

So"Twitch" (07:37):
Twitch is the largest live streaming platform
for gamers.

"Tilting" (07:44):
Tilting is a term for becoming so frustrated, angry or
upset during gaming that yourplay breaks down and your skill
is impaired.
This can include totalmeltdowns, but it also just may
be that you're so internallydistracted that you're comm,
your communication, is no longereffective and you start making
mistakes or you lose control ofyourself in a game.

"Map" (08:07):
A map is the generated landscape that changes every
time a new game begins.
So now that we have a little bitof terminology, let's keep
listening to Stephanie.

Steph Harvey (08:22):
Yeah.
And a lot of the games, uh, Ithink comm is more important
than skills because, uh, in theend when you're at the top of
the world fighting versus thebest of the best, everyone's
good at the game.
So what matters the most isteamwork, communication,
adaptation, positivity, um, andeverything that you need to be

(08:44):
performing on the date ofexactly like a sports athlete.
Um, on a professional team, uh,they not only have practice,
they're in digital skills.
Like there's a lot that comesinto play for the team and
teamwork.
And I think that's even moreimportant in gaming because it's

(09:06):
such a mental and intelligencebase game, but not only like
smarts intelligence, but alsolike emotional intelligence.
And everything that comes withit.

Dr. Shepp (09:19):
And some gamers are going to have a natural comm
ability and some are going tohave to learn how to communicate
, um, uh, more effectively.
You know, if you're, if you grewup kind of playing your game and
becoming the best at it, butyou're, you're, you're isolated
and sort of doing it on yourown.
Um, or you might, you might bestreaming and talking to people
who are listening but notnecessarily having to have a

(09:39):
conversation in the middle of itof a game.
It's skills that need to bedeveloped.
So how do you find when you areplaying with women in e-sports
that those women have naturalcommunication abilities?
Or do you feel like that'ssomething that's acquired or a
combination?

Steph Harvey (09:55):
I think it's, it's a little bit of combination.
I think we do talk more, uh, outof the box, uh, from my
experience.
But, uh, Epic teamwork is superrare to have it without learning
it.
Like you kind of have to learnhow to talk to each other.
There's also communication thatis a unique to the teams you

(10:17):
plan.
So you kind of have to learnthat language.
Um, also there's differentpersonalities that you play with
and you have to learn to playwith these people.
Um, so there's a lot of, alittle bit of both.
Uh, there's some people they'rejust gifted, right?
They're just good listener, goodcommunicator like very, that
work really well with others.

(10:37):
Um you know, these people arefor me, uh, incredible because
for me I had to kind of learn todo everything.
Um, like, uh, I was a lonelychild.
I was extremely competitive.
You know, I had to learn to takecriticism and it still today at
challenge but um, couldn't keepmy frustration properly

(10:59):
communicate, uh, betweenteammates, you know, all these
kinds of things.
It's, it's a keep on learningthing from me where I always
want to be better.
And uh, I think it's like thatfor a lot of people.
But the thing is that not a lotof people want to take that step
or kind of are able to do theintro introspective and realize

(11:20):
that they need to, that's up.
That's like really hard torealize and to do.
Cause usually it comes whenyou're out kind of already up
top to learn these basicskillsets.
Because right now I'm esports,we have no coach in the amateur
level.
All the coaches are at the prolevel.
And a lot of the time it's kindof already too late.

(11:41):
I have no, I don't want to saytoo late, but it takes a lot
more to work on it.
No one teaches you at like six,seven, eight, 10 years old.
How to communicate inside agaming team.
Well if you play hockey,football, what not, you know
there's predecessor that andthere's coaches.
Cool.
And university isn't what mycolleges that teaches you how to

(12:03):
do teamwork while gave me kindof learn it by yourself itself
thought and that's much harderto succeed.

Dr. Shepp (12:11):
You're bringing up some really important challenges
that I think would beinteresting to talk about.
I think you know, so manyEsports players now, even the
professional ones are startingso young.
You're talking about teenagerswho haven't learned a lot about
how to manage their own emotions, um, or even that much about
themselves.
And, and yet, self-awareness issuch an important skill.
Any sports, um, as is patienceand frustration tolerance things

(12:35):
that you mentioned because ifyou're not communicating well or
you're not quite sure how tomanage different personalities,
you don't have that frustrationtolerance.
Um, that's a sure way toward,you know, the path of, of
tilting in the game.

Steph Harvey (12:48):
Absolutely.
And I think it's super importantto control your emotion, your
ups and downs.
Um, I think it's been proven andsports as well, like the more
you're able to stay calm andeven when you're, you have
success to like stay calm andutilize that to your advantage,
uh, when it goes bad, it's thesame thing.

(13:10):
You're able to stay calm andstay focused on the game.
And the goal, I think that'ssomething that in Esports, um,
uh, choking or, uh, tilting or,uh, like collapsing on their
pressures.
And that happens all the timebecause most players don't have
any, uh, emotional supports whenthey compete.

(13:31):
Even professional players arecompeting for millions of
dollars are often left on theirown.
Um, so they have no tools toface these kinds of stressful
moments.

Dr. Shepp (13:45):
So on the inside of e-sports.
So what's it like when you lookaround at players in the
situation?
Cause I know of course in thelast few years there's been the
use of more sports psychologistssuch as myself in e-sports, but
yet you're talking about alandscape where that kind of
coaching and the mental side ofthings isn't really a part of
the upbringing for new playersand champions.

Steph Harvey (14:08):
Yeah, no, I think we are, um, opening the doors to
sport psychologists and all thatkind of stuff.
I think that's so important, butit's still very minimal and it's
way, even when it's available onteams, not all the players are,
uh, using these resources.
And like I mentioned a littlebit earlier, it's about wanting

(14:28):
to get better and wanting to usethese tools in the game.
So even if they give, if theteams gave you the tools, that
doesn't mean that you respectthem or used them when it
matters.
Um, so, and that's at the prolevel when it's your life career
to do it.
So when we're talking about theamateur level, um, from a to Z

(14:50):
amateur from almost semi-pro too, this is the first time I'm
touching the game.
Amateur, there's not a lot ofresources.
If I would advice parents arenow listening.
They have the means talk to yoursports psychologist as soon as
you can to support that your kiddoing esports.

(15:11):
Um, cause it's probably theclosest that they can get
support to in their area.
Cause I think it's so importantto not be left alone and to have
these tools.
I started getting these toolswhen I was over 30 and Oh my
God, it would have helped me somuch if I had those in my early
twenties, um, to just be abetter person in and outside the

(15:34):
game.
And it's all stuff that now Irealize it's so important, so
crucial and in a way for me, formy career, it's kinda too late
but it's not too late foreverybody else that's under 25
right.
To learn this.

Dr. Shepp (15:49):
You mentioned that you, you think of yourself as a
healthy gamer and just now youreferred to parents getting
involved in the careers of, oftheir kids who are playing
e-sports.
And one of the things you'vesaid is that when your parents
took interest in your gaming it,it changed your life, you
changed the conversation at thedinner table and you felt more
connected and more support.

(16:10):
Tell me a little bit about that.

Steph Harvey (16:13):
This is something that I cannot stress enough are
important.
My parents were in my career andhow the way they were, the
approach gaming completelychanged her.
I think they were never reallyagainst gaming but they did not
like that.
I would go to tournaments withlike 500 guys and two girls,
right?
They were in for three days.

(16:34):
They did not understand it.
They were kind of, um, just outof the loop of what it is to be
like in a he sports communitiesespecially, we're talking here,
we're talking about 2003, likewe're not looking in the years
though we are now where it'smore and more known.
It's, it was really like alittle insect in a rural, like

(16:55):
what is this weird thing and uh,can we accept it or whatnot.
So, um, I, I'm someone that'spretty stubborn and I told him
I'm doing it with or without youso you better be on board or I'm
out.
And it was as simple as that.
I was 16, 17 and you know, weall know teenagers at 18, we
kind of believe we can dowhatever we want cause we're 18.

(17:17):
Right?
So that was my way of seeingthings like ongoing, I'm going
to be 18 then very soon, so youbetter be on board or I'm
closing the doors to like mypassion and my Albert's Arby's.
So, um, they decided to come toan event without asking me.
They just showed up to an event.
I'm glad they showed up and theywere like, Oh, this is what the

(17:39):
event is.
And it looks pretty coolactually.
And they started getting to knowmy friends and they started to
getting to know the game I wasplaying.
And throughout the years theyjust were involved as if I was
playing soccer or piano or Idon't know anything that has to
do with your child's passionwhen they're in school.

(18:00):
And it changed everything causewe went from being conflict with
the, the game being the conflictto the game being the uniting
factor in our relationship wherethey would ask me, Oh, what's up
with your team?
Like how's this teammate?
Like do you win tonight?
You know, how's practice?

(18:20):
What's the score in a league?
You know, all these kinds ofthings.
Like they were aware of what Iwas doing and when I need them,
for example, for a specific dayto eat in front of the computer
because we had a reallyimportant match.
They understood then they wereable to say, okay for today,
like we'll make a meal that youcan even from the computers so
you can win your match.
You know?
And it doesn't mean that I waseating in front of the computer

(18:41):
every time.
It's a once a month for anexception.
They understood that there wasno conflict about it.
Right.
And these are the little thingsthat, um, that really made a
difference where mom, like, Iwant to do my exam but I have a
match.
Can you give me a ride todayinstead of me taking the bus
cause I need to be on time for amatch.
Okay, I'll give you a ride.
And if it's for your gaming andit's important that we'll be

(19:04):
there on time to do boat, boat,your exam and your game so you
don't ditch either.
Or, you know, I think theselittle things were so important
because if you start fightingabout you need to stay in school
but you don't support thepassions of your kids and you
forced them to do school blindlywithout like while forgetting

(19:24):
about who they are, you're gonnalose them, I think personally or
they're going to get closed up.
And that's how you want.
You want them to have a balanceand open life, um, and you want
them to open up so you gotta bethere and understand their
world.

Dr. Shepp (19:40):
Your story is a really familiar one to a lot of
the players that I've spokenwith.
Because e-sports can be thesource of conflict and
contention in a family when, um,there's a young person who's
wanting to make that their life,their passion, their career and
parents, you know, just don'tunderstand.
Um, and, and it can lead to alot of volatility and arguing

(20:00):
and, and isolating of, of thatkid or young adult.
Um, but then I also hear on theother side of things that
sometimes parents will comearound and start to support
their kid when they realize thattheir child can make a living
off of East spores.
And that's not always a positivething because, um, as I talked
to players from around the worldand that this is going to vary

(20:21):
culture to culture and countryto country, but sometimes
there's more pressure then onthe professional sports player
because not only was e-sportspart of like a tumultuous
history in the family, but nowthere's this expectation that
we'll, if you're gonna do it,then you, you better, you better
be able to either provide forthe family or prove to us that
you can make a living with thisand it provides more pressure to

(20:42):
the player when they're, whenthey're involved in the sport.

Steph Harvey (20:45):
I think that's a very point.
And I also think it's a, it's aweird thing to put that kind of
pressure, um, on a kid or onsomeone because I always wonder
how we try to compare it tosomething that we are really
okay with.
If that person was playingsoccer, football, whatever,

(21:06):
would they have to perform orelse they would have to stop
that activity?
Um, this is always something Idon't think so.
Like, do we tell our kids thatwon't reach the NHL?
You need to stop playing hockeybecause you won't be a pro
player.
Like, no, we don't.
And why would that be the casewith gaming?

(21:27):
It doesn't make any sensebecause it's not if you don't
become a pro players or if it,if you don't make a living out
of it, this is not the end foryou.
This is still the beginningbecause there's so many
opportunities in East ports andeven if you don't end up working
in e-sports, whether it'sjournalists or trying to migrant
Geyser or a team owner orwhatever you're going, if you're
not, we're kidding.

(21:47):
E-sports, um, you will havelearned so many skills and
quality for your life to facelife because you competed
because you had to deal withlike a life balance schedule and
one night of the competition andjust playing video games itself
has been proven to give you, togive you so much to face life.

(22:11):
And um, so for me it's like anonissue with most of the thing
that we say about gaming.
Uh, it's an an issue because wejust kind of put gaming on its
own when he can be compared toeverything we already faced
these days.
And from me, gaming is just likeanything else.

(22:33):
If your kid plays chesscompetitively, are you going to
tell him to stop playing?
If he can't make top a hundredin the world?
I don't think so.
Why would you tell them to startplaying video games?
Right.
So that's, that's the cushion islike a mystery to me when it's
not the end.
If they don't become pro doesn'tmean they're whole e-sports Pat

(22:55):
is going to be was a waste.
It's not, it's the beginning.

Dr. Shepp (22:59):
And I'm sure some of this has to do with generation
differences, you know, um, wdifferent revolutions in, in
Western culture, whether that bethe sixties or the eighties or
whatever it might be.
It's, it's kind of anotherrevolution in culture because
some of the parents generationsaren't going to relate to, um,
this kind of pastime or hobby orinterest.
Um, and yet at the same time, wehave such an opportunity to

(23:22):
build bridges.
I really liked the Ted talk thatyou gave on parents becoming
involved in the gaming of theirchildren.
And, and I highly recommend itto anyone who hasn't listened to
it.
It is in French, but there areEnglish subtitles.
So, um, and I really recommendit because you, you make a lot
of good points about the futureof, of, um, of this generation

(23:42):
of kids and, and how manypositive skills can come out of
someone's investment in, ingaming.
I think that's anothergenerational difference because
older generations might thinkabout Screentime as being bad
for people's brains or thatgaming somehow causes isolation
or that they associate it with,um, having difficulty

(24:04):
socializing.
But e-sports is a, is a reallydifferent culture now than when,
um, gaming began.
And there's so many positivethings that come out of it.

Steph Harvey (24:14):
Yeah, most of it are actually positive.
I think that, uh, because we'rescared of change, obviously the
society is changing or becomingmore and more online.
And like you mentioned screentime and video games are more
and more presence that this is abig scary thing for the older
generations because they don'treally understand.
Um, and they don't really knowhow to cope with it.

(24:36):
But what I always say is, like Isaid, I think you've said that
in the Ted talk as well.
You know, for me gaming is likebroccoli.
Broccoli is good for you.
If you only ate broccoli dough,you'll be sick.
Okay?
So if you only do gaming, yeah,you'll be sick.
You'll probably be sick andprobably not going to be good
for you.
But everything is a question ofbalance in life.

(24:56):
And gaming is, is another one ofwhen it's done right.
If it's the most uplifting andamazing thing ever because it
makes you live experiences andmakes you discover people from
all around the world and itgives you so much skills, like
tools in life, whether it'sworkout in your multitasking,

(25:19):
um, conflict resolution, like Iwas mentioning, like learning
Teamworks comunication skills ora decision making, special
awareness.
Like all these kinds of thingsare amazing for kids to learn.
We use gaming for[inaudible]when people are injured.
We use gaming to concur.

(25:40):
Concur fears.
Like there's so many things thatmakes gaming an amazing tool for
life that we can't just, wecan't just bash on the fact
that, well if I just do gamingthen I'll be like, it's bad for
you.
Uh, yeah.
If you just watch Netflix 24,seven, it's going to be horrible

(26:02):
for you as do I want to bam thatflicks or do I sit in Netflix's
the cause for all the problemsthe world?
No, it's an, it's an unrelated,it has nothing to do with
Netflix.
It has to do with yourconsumption and your
exaggeration of an object or atool or whatever.
Um, in that case it's gaming andwe just use it as escape goat

(26:25):
because we don't understand it.

Dr. Shepp (26:27):
It's interesting that we have so many new studies that
have shown the benefit ofe-sports for different mental
health conditions.
For example, an old school gamecalled Tetris is helpful for,
um, getting people over.
PTSD studies have shown and um,we have organizations.
Yeah, yeah.
We have organizations like I'mcancer fit that help place kids

(26:51):
with uh, who, who have cancer orwho are recovering from cancer
with East sports teams in orderto help them find some
motivation.
And some joy in life is sort oflike the make a wish foundation
has done with, with many otherareas of life.
There's organizations that arereally trying to make a
difference and using e-sports todo so.

Steph Harvey (27:12):
Yeah.
And honestly I think that'swhere we're at.
Um, this especially like thepeople of my age, the 30 plus
from eastwards, we, we, we wantto give back.
We want to be there for the nextgeneration.
We want to show support.
We want to make a deference.
Uh, there's no boundaries ine-sports.
There's no frontier between thecountries.

(27:33):
There's no limit physicallimitation.
There's no like in a way you canlook like whoever, you can have
any kind of volition.
Religion could speak anylanguage.
You can come from anywhere, likeall that.
The only thing that unites us orthe main thing that you notice
is gaming.
And that's what's amazingbecause, um, it allows me, my

(27:56):
brain to take about so manygreat things that I can do with
gaming and what I want to giveback to the communities.
Um, because of the, we, itchanged my life.

Dr. Shepp (28:08):
You've already started giving back some of the
things that you do now in yourcareer or are related to
advocacy and trying to make adifference and a change in, in
the community.
And one of the things you'vedone with a group of your
collaborators is, um, developeda site called misclicks.
Can you tell us about that?

Steph Harvey (28:25):
Yeah.
Um, I mean ms[inaudible] at thetime was built around the idea
that um, pretty much there wasno safe place and that women
were kind of pitch against eachother.
And, um, I wanted to create andunite a bunch of girls from

(28:46):
different communities and make,uh, miss clueless miss cliques,
which was going to be, um, a wayfor us to promote and advocate
diversity and minorities ingaming, whether it's female or
other stuff like, uh, uh, genderor, um, non heterosexual.

(29:08):
I think that's how you say it inEnglish.
Um, people or what that like thenon-normative I'm not quite sure
what you're doing.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
[inaudible] sounds perfectlyacceptable.
It was pretty much a way for usto, uh, fight the fight that
nobody was fighting at the timecause I was over seven years

(29:29):
ago, I think now.
Uh, cause we were not there yet.
I think that sports was notthere yet.
Um, it was not aboutinclusivity.
It was still about just showingthat we exist.
Um, and uh, so we startedmisclicks and where we had a
dedicated bill dedicatedstreaming channel to, on Twitch

(29:51):
and where we promoted a bunch of, uh, people from different
background into the geek andGimmel geeking gimme a gaming
culture.
And we also provided aninclusive community, which were
honestly, we had almost a zerotolerance for, um, uh, for
harassment and one not I sayalmost because when we had these

(30:13):
kinds of things come up in ourcommunities instead of kind of
banning them and not supportingthem or not talking to them, we
would try to teach them first.
And then if they, that thelesson couldn't be taught, then
we would act on it.
But we found that it was morepowerful to teach to people
being jerks not to be jerks andjust pretty much punish them

(30:36):
right away.
Um, that was a really goodlearning experience for us
actually.
But, um, but yeah, so we startedthat.
We had a website where we liftup to each other, lift up other
women, talked about successfulpeople in our community.
Also, uh, allowed, uh, peoplethat wanted to get involved to
kind of show up and start theirown show.

(30:58):
Uh, we had tabletop shows,dungeon and dragons shows,
horror shows.
Like we had so many shows at onepoint on the platform and we did
a five years of this, thisinitiatives.
But as our career kind ofblossom and flourish because
East first in gaming justcompletely exploded in the last
five years.
So our time, it was a lot harderto commit on this project.

(31:22):
So we kind of shut off thechapters for now, um, by um,
kind of letting all the shows goback to other channels.
And so we didn't close theshows, we just let them live
somewhere else and we kind ofuh, closed misclicks but all the
girls involved, we continue this, uh, I want to say advocacy or

(31:44):
this fight for inclusivity andminorities, uh, where we are.
Like Anna works at Twitch, Jenworks, uh, at Ubisoft.
She was on rainbow six and nowshe works uh, uh, behavior.
I'm everywhere in the spread aswell.
Uh, so we're just in other, Iwant to say mandate but still

(32:05):
come you continuing that missionon a note on a say no to.
There's way more initiatives nowthat are doing a really good job
at what we tried to do.
And I think that was also why wedecided to move on and let
others kind of pick up the phonefor now because we didn't have
the resources and other peopleare actually wanting to make a

(32:28):
that different student.
I think that's super important.
That's fantastic.
I think one of the things thatplayers don't anticipate as they
climb the ranks in e-sports isjust how difficult the, the
toxicity

Dr. Shepp (32:40):
in the online community can be.
So when you have differentavenues for support and things
that are working to combat thattoxicity, it's, it's so helpful
and important.
And I know that professionalteams have things in place to
help combat the toxicity,whether that be suspending a
player or whatever that might beon, um, on Twitch or, or on a

(33:00):
team, whatever it is, whereplayers are reprimanded for
their behavior.
But at the same time, there's somuch about the toxicity that is
uncontrollable and, and playersare not always prepared for how
that might feel.
You've said in the past thatcyber bullying is one of the
biggest challenges you've had todeal with.

Steph Harvey (33:17):
Yeah.
And I think that's a challengethat we still to this day are
reactive to it instead of beingproactive about it, meaning, um,
we kind of fight the fightbackward where when there is
cyber bullying, uh, whether it'sin a game where you can, uh,
report that Plager or whetherit's in real life where you take

(33:39):
action or whether you go see apsychologist when people, when
something is wrong or whatnot,it's always backward for me and
I think we need to do way moreproactive initiatives to fight
that fight at the roots.
Like for me, I keep saying this,but for me, we should be in
school first thing when you'refive, six years old, primary

(34:02):
school and teaching the kids howto interact online and how to
receive that message as wellbecause it's not only about, um,
I think bullying others.
It's also how you react tobullies.
Uh, I think it's a little bit of50, 50 where I don't think that
we can extinguish cyberbullyingforever with everyone that gets

(34:23):
something that's going to be aproblem probably are all life.
So yes, we can fight, tried toavoid cyber bullying, but we
also need to be able that whenit happens, know how to take
care, how to respond to it, howto deal with it.
And right now I don't know ofany initiatives that work, um,

(34:44):
on that side.
And I think that's something forme that so important to be able
to be there in that escalate theviolence and not play that game.
And usually that's what'shappening right now.
Like you get insulted againstall back and you know, it goes
dramatic.
It goes violence so fast withthe worst.

(35:04):
Yeah.
And that's just our defensemechanism to pretty much be able
to handle it.
Like you fight back, um, causeyou don't want to be a victim.
Right.
But is it the right solution?
I'm 33 years old.
I've done this my whole life.
I don't know if it's a solutionI have no tools to.
So I want to, I want ourgovernment, our education

(35:24):
systems to do something aboutthis.
I think the internet should belike sex, sex is in schools and
we teach these kids how to havegood relationships and why you
sex can be dangerous, but whyyou're going to have sex or all
life most likely.
And why should the a funexperience for both of your

(35:46):
partners.
And we teach that very young tomake sure that people understand
the limits, right?
Um, we don't do that from theinternet, but in the internet
it's the same thing.
You're going to use it yourwhole life.
You're going to have most of thetime a positive experience, but
you can do things are illegal,but you might get hurt.

(36:08):
I'm like, it's the same thingfor me as sex and we need to
understand the consequencesreally young before it's too
late.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
[inaudible] [inaudible]

Dr. Shepp (36:26):
I think it's a fantastic idea.
You're speaking about havingonline literacy training for
kids and I can't think ofanything more appropriate.
Um, as a matter of fact, if Ican help out in any way, let me
know.
Because I think that that kindof training and, um, and
understanding of the onlinecommunity should start from a
very young age.
We find even outside of e-sportsthat when kids get on social

(36:48):
media, they're really unpreparedfor what they're going to find
and aren't equipped to be ableto, to manage that, that kind of
culture and, and the thingscoming at them.
So I think it'd be a fantasticidea just to have that kind of
training.
I see what you mean about theanalogy of, of sex education.
Online education is somethingthat's, um, that would make a
big difference becausetechnology just continues to

(37:10):
impact our lives in to greaterextents as every, as every day
goes by.
So that kind of training wouldbe so helpful.
What a great idea it would.
Yeah.

Steph Harvey (37:19):
And I think that's, that's a ripple effect
that's going to affect gaming inthe end.
Right.
Um, and we need to start, wecan't start with gaming cause
it's not, honestly, it's notthere.
I don't think it's the problem.
Problem is we higher than that.
The problem is, is is theinternet that social media like

(37:39):
have never been disconnected?

Dr. Shepp (37:41):
Yeah, sure.
Kids are online from the timethey're six months old
sometimes.
Um, um, you know, the, the, theparent who's showing the YouTube
kid's video to their child whilethey're eating dinner or having
a snack, um, and holds the phonein front of their, their child's
face.
It starts from the time kidscan, can really think now.
And so I think it's such a goodidea to be able to have some
education that goes along withhow kids can manage that

(38:05):
presence in their lives.
And it'll just like you say,translate into gaming so that
when kids or young adults getinvolved in East sports or
become e-sports professionals,they'll have a background in how
to manage the different thingsthat they'll face.
Again, really great idea.

Steph Harvey (38:20):
Exactly.
We can't just let the, honestly,I don't think we can let the
parents themselves take thatburden.
And that's why I think it's, itshould be something that's being
taught in school and we need tosupport the teachers in this
education system to be able toteach it because we can't just
let burden on the parentsbecause I think we're going to
fail.

Dr. Shepp (38:38):
No, that's, that's an important initiative to have.
I know that there's differentthings happening at different
levels of education withEastboards, but you're talking
about something moretransformative.
So there are scholarships nowthat are given to university for
people who are wanting to gointo e-sports careers and we are
seeing players being developedat that collegiate level.
And so yes, we're, we haveeducation that's getting

(38:59):
involved in some ways, butyou're talking about something
much more transformative.
And I think I'm more of afoundation.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.

Steph Harvey (39:05):
And I think that those colleges initiatives and
um, all of that is so importantlike this.
It's crucial.
But I think it's, it's, it's notthe same as what I'm talking
about.
It's like a different bottle.

Dr. Shepp (39:19):
No, totally.
Totally.
Different.
Absolutely.
And some of the battles thatyou've encountered and that
other eSports players encountercan be quite frightening.
I mean, when you're on Twitchand you're streaming, you kind
of can't get away from some ofthe comments to, you know, to
the side of your eye if you lookover to them.
But there's different levels ofharassment that take place

(39:40):
because sure, you're going tohave the heckler as we call it.
And like the fan in the standsat the, at the football game
who's yelling, you know, youcan't throw, you can't catch.
You have that kind of thing thathappens in e-sports, but it can
also get quite frightening.
Um, death threats and um, sexualharassment and threats of, of
rape and assault and violence.

(40:02):
Um, this is some of whatparticularly female East sports
players

Steph Harvey (40:06):
can sometimes face.
Yeah, it does happenunfortunately.
As soon as you're a publicfigure, especially, um, I'm sure
it happens to most people.
Um, and when you stream, youtake on that choice where you
kind of expose yourself to bevulnerable to these things.

(40:27):
Um, I always see that.
I don't think it should be likethat.
I don't think I should have to,uh, face those issues.
But at the same time, I need tobe realistic.
It happens and I need to beprepared for it.
So for me, most of the time Ijust see more it just shove it
away.

(40:47):
Um, so I would say like 95%successful at it, but there's
still a 5% where I'm getting, Oh, having a shit day behind the
screen, like nobody knows andI'm streaming or I'm doing
whatever, and then I read anawful climate or something
happens that can really justpush me down.
And, um, those are the harddays.

(41:09):
And that's why I think you needto be surrounded with a good
support system, whether it'syour family, friends at will not
, uh, that will not few will thedrama and that will lift you up.
Um, because if you get caught inthat negativity, um, well, it's

(41:31):
like a, how I compare it as likea, a beach.
If you go too far in the ocean,it like drags you more and more
away.
Um, I would compare it to dad,like there's a tin line between,
uh, being able to swim back andjust being like trapped into the
ocean.

(41:53):
Um, and it's kind of a battle ona daily basis to stay on the,
yeah, consume bap.
This was this swim, swim back.
This was fine.
Or like today I got swallowedand I can't breathe kind of.
Um, but like I said, I guessit's the choice I make,

Dr. Shepp (42:12):
but I would imagine that female athletes from most
sports have experiencedsomething really similar.
There's a challenge that femaleathletes face when they become
public figures when they reachthe top of their game.
Um, because there are somepeople who don't want women to
succeed in that way.
Um, there are some people,whether it's just sexism or

(42:34):
misogyny or whatever it mightbe, who, um, just want to tear
women down.
I mean, everyone from, you know,Serena Williams in tennis to, to
Stephanie Harvey and Eastboardsto, you know, women throughout
sports in general will say thatthey face this kind of
challenge.
The, another thing that femaleathletes face is that you become

(42:54):
sexualized in order to, to beseen as more, more popular or to
find more acceptance as anathlete.
And that happens a lot of timeswhere a female athlete might
achieve great success.
And then because of that, youknow, she's approached by
Playboy or given some sort ofother offer, you know, to, to
become hyper-sexualized and inorder to make more money and

(43:15):
make a, make a better living.
Um, sometimes it's just the waythings are worded.
You, you see, for example,headlines like the 10 hottest
pro gamer girls that woulddestroy you at video games.
So women athletes are oftensexualized in order to sell the
magazine or to get ratings forthe, for the streaming show or

(43:36):
whatever it is.
And I think that's somethingthat male athletes just can't
relate to.

Steph Harvey (43:42):
Yeah.
There's so many points you justbrought up.
I think that my first point isgoing to be, um, I don't think
it's only athletes, um, sportsor Eastboards.
I think it's every woman in aposition of power on a say, um,
or every woman in a maledominated environment or, um,

(44:03):
like what are you at the office?
Women need to prove that theyare competent, wild man start
competent right away.
And I think that's somethingthat without us realizing it,
the society kind of put it inour brain, me included, that if

(44:24):
a girl was pretty and she had aleading position is probably not
only because she was talentedbut was because she was
spreading to or you know, likethere's so many things in life
that taught me to be skepticalabout a women's success.
And that's so frustrating now tome because I had to break out of

(44:48):
that mall pitching women againsteach other of doubting their
success or being jealous oftheir success as if there can
only be one women because that'swhat people taught me.
I need to be the best womanplayer in the world and I can't
be number two because otherwomen, you know, they like, I
need to be the best.

(45:08):
And, um, and I think that that'sone thing about my career, but,
um, it took me so long to kindof realize that, assess that and
get out of it and start to behappy for it.
A woman's success and not doubtsomeone's talent just because
they're in a position of powerand I've never known about them

(45:31):
before, so I'm, I need to beskeptical about, yeah, maybe
they're not that great, youknow, I what her doing because
they could be a morals.
I don't know why they're anysports or, you know, these kind
of thing that, um, honestlyother people put into my mind
when I was so young and now Istarted to believe it and I was
part of the problem.

(45:52):
Um, eh, I think it's so easy tobe part of that kind of gossip.
I don't have you sit that inEnglish, that gossip that is
negative for your environmenthonestly hurts you so much

(46:13):
because you can't, like my aunttaught me that.
She told me something like, youknow, if you don't forgive,
you're, you're the one that'sholding on to the pain.
And I think that's the same forthe jealousy and is the same
floor, um, for most things inlife, uh, revenge and
resentment.

(46:34):
And one that when you feel theseemotions, you're the one that's
hurting.
You're the ones stuck with it.
You're the one that, um, willhave a hard time going to sleep
because you're taking it outsomeone else's life.
Why don't you focus on your ownlife and be happy for other
women?
Because it doesn't mean thatthey're successful that you

(46:55):
cannot be successful too.
It doesn't mean that becausethey got this award or this job
or won this tournament, that itundermines your success.
And I think that's somethingthat took me so long to realize.
And I wonder if you're a guy, ifthat's how you feel.
Because I am a strong believerthat I was thought that I needed

(47:17):
to be the best women ineverything.
And I've always been compared toevery single woman and
everything that I've ever done,whether it's my looks or my
skills or my role position orSally or whatnot, it was always
about, um, well this woman isprettier.
This woman is nicer, this womanis this and that.
And I don't remember my friendsguy friends telling each other,

(47:41):
well, this guy is hotter andthis guy is nicer.
Like this is not something thatI feel that their pitch against
each other.
Uh, w while we are for women,like most like successful women
in XYZ article happens all thetime and I'm guilty of reading

(48:02):
them, you know, because I'mbeing pitched these headlines
and medias and marketing and,and what not.
This is how we should behave.
This is what the most beautifulwoman looks like and this is
what I should achieve.
Two, if I'm not there, then Isuck.
Kind of.

(48:23):
Um, and I feel that's how I wasraised and not by my parents,
but by society.

Dr. Shepp (48:30):
Yeah.
I think you speak to somethingthat female listeners will
probably recognize pretty prettyquickly that we are often as
women, I'm taught to beskeptical of other women or to
feel a sense of competitionrather than supporting each
other.
And of course there've been manywomen who've tried to change
that tide over the course ofhistory and encourage women to

(48:52):
support each other and, and tosee each other as allies.
One of the things you said is sooften we compare our situations
to others and get depressed byour progress, but that's not how
it should be.
We need to learn how to fail,how to lose, and how to be happy
for others.
This is the best way to achieveyour own success.

Steph Harvey (49:09):
Yeah, I think that's a, that's exactly it.
Learning out of fail is moreimportant than winning.
Learning how to focus on yourcareer is more important than
comparing yourself to others.
If you, I learned this from aprofessional BMX, a female

(49:30):
athlete that I work with at theOlympic committee.
Um, she's a a goal, she's amedalist and or country, well in
the world, but she's from NewZealand and she, she says, focus
on being the best athlete youcan be and that will make you a
better person if you focus onyour goal and how to achieve it.

(49:54):
And if you actually think thatyou did the best that you could
in a tournament, you won't bedisappointed because you did the
best you could.
Even if he got second place, youworked our before, during and
after and you the best youcould.
We're second place so you haveto be happy about that second
place.
She said that when she had thatmodal and she won silver,

(50:17):
everybody thought that she wongold because all the interviews,
she was so proud of yourselfinstead of being disappointed
that the whole is still today.
Years later congratulating ourfor Goldwind she never won gold
chicken because she was proud ofthe best she could do.

Dr. Shepp (50:37):
Hmm.
That.
That's great.
And I think it does speak to themental side of, of being an
athlete that you want to try tooptimize your own performance
and control what you can aboutyour own execution, the
execution of your skill ratherthan letting concerns about how
other people are performing,impact your own approach to your
sport.

(50:58):
Because one is going to be muchmore of course of a distraction
and it's going to hinder yourability to stay in the moment
and execute your skill.

Steph Harvey (51:05):
It's learning, it's wanting to win instead of
being scared to lose.
And I think that's crucial ine-sports.

Dr. Shepp (51:22):
Yeah, it's crucial in a lot of sports we hear from
football to golf to e-sportsthat that you, you need to play
to win and instead of playingnot to lose, and that mindset
often brings a different caliberof performance.

Steph Harvey (51:35):
Yes.
And even today it's hard tounderstand it.
Like you say that and I'm, Ihave to stop and think about
what that means.
Um, because it's, it's reallysubtle to an either or.
Right.
It's really a question of, ofwanting it just a little more
than the others.

Dr. Shepp (51:55):
And learning how to perform under pressure, which
you've had to do, not only ine-sports, but you are also the
winner of, of Canada's smartestperson.
So, and you're a public speakerand you, you, um, work in policy
initiatives and so you, you knowwhat it's like to perform under
pressure.

Steph Harvey (52:12):
And I'm guilty of that.
I've done tournaments where Iwas scared to lose and I lost
them.
I loved them every time.
So yeah, I think that even whenI was playing at Canada smartest
person, when I was scared tolose, I was falling behind.
And when I was like, okay, well,um, let me just finish this for
myself.

(52:33):
I ended up winning the races Iwas behind just because I was
focusing on myself and my owngoals.
And, uh, it's crucial just inlife overall.
You can't compare yourself toothers because especially with
social media, this is the tip ofthe iceberg.
Everything you see online isprobably exaggerated to be

(52:54):
better.
So if you compare your life toeverything that you see, the top
of the iceberg, you'll be,you'll be so, uh, in French,
there's a word for it.
You'll be so sad.
Cause you compare yourself tounrealistic goals.
Their life is not just theiceberg, the top of it, right?
There's a whole block of iceunderneath the ocean and that's

(53:18):
your life.
And you're trying to compare tosomething that's not realistic.
The top of the iceberg ofeverybody else.
Successful traveling, being hoton the beach, you know, like
always on their best angle.
Like it doesn't make any sense.
And it doesn't mean youshouldn't consume it.
It just means that you just needto understand that that's not

(53:38):
their life as well.

Dr. Shepp (53:40):
Well, I think having expectations that are realistic
rather than perfectionistic alsomakes a difference.
You want to try to be the bestthat you can be, but that
doesn't involve trying to beperfect.
Um, because everybody's gonnaneed to learn and to grow and to
, um, continue to pushthemselves in whatever field
that they find themselves.
And oftentimes it's when you tryto be perfect and avoid making

(54:03):
any mistakes that you end upmaking more mistakes.
And I think, I think it's soimportant to make mistakes and
embrace it and learn from them.
Um, you know, when I waspracticing, when I'm practicing
with my team and we destroy ateam in practice, we don't learn
anything.
We really don't.
Practice is useless.
Like you need to have hardmatches and our games to sit

(54:27):
down and say, okay, we need toimprove this and that and
whatnot.
To be able to improve you meetdifficulty, you need, um,
challenge to be able to getbetter.
You need, you need to makemistakes in order to reach the
next step and learned and growand just overall create

(54:48):
something better.
And you talk about that, usingthat efficiency in practice that
you, you shouldn't really focuson trying to learn every single
detail there is about a mapbecause you don't usually do
that in a game.
You want to work on your utilityand your positioning and how
you're communicating with yourteammates and, and focus on
efficiency in practice in orderto be most efficient in the

(55:09):
game.
You know, this is the debatethat some people might disagree
with, but I, I'm

Steph Harvey (55:14):
a strong believer that right now most deans are
not utilizing their practiceschedule in the right ways.
Um, we're, it's getting betterand better, but I don't think
that just playing and playingand playing, um, is this really
the optimal way to get better?
Um, I think the up you need toknow that if you play 10 hours a

(55:38):
day, probably a lot of thesehours are wasted time because
you could be recharging yourbatteries.
You could be doing otheractivities that will make you
better in the game.
Uh, because I strongly believein mental fatigue.
Um, and if you're not 100% inthe game, uh, and 100% focused

(55:59):
and wanting to learn and bebetter, uh, you could be
utilizing your time in otherways.
And I don't think that we can be100% efficient 10 hours a day.
And a game, like I think itneeds to be done efficiently and
uh, not always just playing,like there's stuff in each of

(56:20):
the games that can help you whatare, it's watching an opponent
or, um, like going really deepinto specific mechanics or
working on communication andwhat not on a team can be just
as important as just playing,um, and make you grow faster.

Dr. Shepp (56:40):
Those are great details to point out.
And I think you're absolutelyright.
I think efficiency in practiceand preparation is true
regardless of what kind ofperformance area you're talking
about.
If you, um, if you don't thinkmental fatigue is real, you're
gonna find yourself becomingmore easily distracted.
Um, certainly mental fatigue issomething that is not only been

(57:00):
proven through research, butjust through people's
experience.
There's only so much you can payattention to at any given
moment, of course.
And if you're trying to payattention to too much or you
don't have a plan for how todeal with distractions, you are
going to fatigue much moreeasily.

Steph Harvey (57:15):
Yeah.
And on a team practice, um, youneed people that understand
that.
Um, and you need to optimizeyour body and lifestyle to be
able to be on point when you arepracticing and doing matches so
that your mental fatigue is, um,or just your mental is not

(57:36):
fatigued, if that makes anysense.
Um, so what you're eating, theamount of time you're resting
when you're eating only, youknow, everything that a regular
ass athlete needs to go throughto have his optimal performance
on the day of his competition asthe same for gaming.
And it's not because they'resitting in front of a computer
or console that we don't havephysical limitation and that we

(57:59):
should practice all day.
We do have physical limitationand we need to take care of our
body just the same.

Dr. Shepp (58:06):
Sure.
I work with people who are noteven 20 years old and they've
already had pinched nerves andwrist injuries and um, you know,
lower back problems and, and Ithink caring for oneself when,
when you're in East sportsplayers, also important
education have really early on.
Absolutely.
You're also talking aboutcontrolling the things that, um,
are repeatable and predictableand where you can find some

(58:29):
confidence.
Being able to build up the skillthat you know, you can exercise
at any given moment.
Because then in e-sports, aswith a lot of other athletic
fields, you're gonna, you'regonna face a lot of uncertainty.
So the things that you can do tohelp yourself feel that there's
more that you can predict andcontrol, it's always to your
advantage to be able to maximizethat.

Steph Harvey (58:51):
Yeah.
So team practice is to be ableto control as much as you can.
So when there's theuncontrollable happens, you know
what to do.
So whether it's working on yourcommunication to face these
uncertain cetaceans and what todo when you don't know, um, or
it's working on your musclememory.
So when the day comes, yourmuscle memory is not going to be

(59:12):
a problem.
Cause you can control that.
You can control the amount oftime you do a solo practice and
practice.
You're aiming your grenades,your strats, your communication,
all of that you can control.
Uh, what you cannot control ison the day of the, of the game
what your enemy opponent isgoing to do.
But you can have a game plan fora lot of the things that are

(59:33):
going to do and a lot of thethings that might happen, you
want to know how to handle thesesituations and so that when it's
uncontrollable you havesolutions or you have a plan
still.
Um, and I think that's the partyou can control.
And just like in anything inlife, if you cannot control it,

(59:55):
don't stress about it or work onthe things you can control.
If I'm stuck in traffic, I don'tstress anymore.
And then one day kind of clickedin my brain, I can't control
that traffic.
Nothing will change.
What are I stress or not?
At this moment I will be late.
I just have to accept the factthat I'm going to be late.
If I didn't want to be late, Ishould plan better.

(01:00:16):
I should've left earlier.
Now it's too late.
I'm in traffic.
I need to relax and think aboutsomething else because I can't
change what's going on rightnow.
What I can do is learn from itand next time leave earlier, you
know?
So it's, it's, that's how I seemost of the things in life.
That's why when I'm notprepared, I get mad at myself.

(01:00:38):
But when I'm prepared, I'm okayand I'll be okay.
That's an excellent summary Ithink of just sports psychology
principles and how it affectsEastboards who you've just hit
on a number of really importantpoints and being able to execute
at your best and control whatyou can and be as prepared as
possible and feel like you'rebringing your best, your best

(01:00:58):
game to, to your performance.
I can talk to you for hours.
I'm enjoying this so much.
Um, but I don't want to take uptoo much of your time.
I do have questions that I askeveryone.
If it's okay, I'm gonna shift inand ask those questions of you.
Yeah, let's do it.
Great.
All right.
So Stephanie, what in life areyou still curious about?

(01:01:20):
Um, a couple of things.
I would say.
How to be API.
I still struggle with it.
Like I still don't know why mylife without competing is, it's
like I've been competing for solong.
It's a struggle for me to findpurpose now.
So I guess that, um, andlearning, um, for some reason I

(01:01:41):
just love learning new skills ornew things or dive into stuff
that I could learn or make adifference or start a project
with and make things better.
Still.
Stuff that I'm curious about.
What is more distracting to youas a performer when you receive

(01:02:03):
praise or when you receivecriticism?
Hmm, probably criticism.
Um, I know that a lot of peoplefuel from it and want to prove
people wrong.
Um, and I guess I, I can be likethat, but most of the time I
take it really, um, when it hasto do with my skills or my
intelligence, what it has to dowith my body or whatever, I can

(01:02:27):
brush it off pretty easily now.
Um, but when he has to do with,uh, the things I say or like
difference of opinion or myskill, I th I can take it really
hard and I'm running out ofenergy proving people wrong and
the game.
So, uh, it's been a long journeyfor me.

(01:02:48):
That's why I'm like in some yearretirement right now.
As a performer, you obviouslyprepare for every tournament and
yet the unexpected can happen.
What is something unexpectedthat happened to you as a sports
player?
Um, you know, so many things.
Um, you prepare a certainwaivers as a team that you think

(01:03:12):
they're going to play it, thatand you, they show up on, on
game day and they playcompletely different than what
you proposed for.
Um, or something that alwaysworks for us and we barely
practice anything else becauseit always works.
Although sound day on day, theday of the, it doesn't work.
Um, for whatever reason.
Um, so you might say ourpreparation was lacking one

(01:03:33):
that, but uh, sometimes it'sjust how it is you play versus
Americans players who have adifferent, like a completely
different place style.
Dan European players and you goto a tournament and you face
European players and youcouldn't really prepare that
well for it cause you live inAmerica.
So there are situations where nomatter how hard you prepared,

(01:03:53):
you come up to the tournamentand you need more tournament
experience to prepare for thatas well.
Kind of.
So I would say every time thatI've competed, uh, for the first
time with the teaminternationally, uh, November,
no matter how hard you preparedusually, uh, you kind of face

(01:04:13):
stuff that you couldn't preparefor the challenge though of
being a professional athlete forsure.
Um, what is one tweet or commentthat you've received that still
stands out to you because of itsimpact?
It could be good or bad or forwhatever reason, but something
that still stands out to youbecause of its impact.

(01:04:33):
I've recently I did an interviewwith Richard Lewis.
Um, he's a, he switched analysta as been pretty confirmed
throughout his career because,uh, he is pretty opinionated and
sometimes he's, he can be reallyintense in his delivery, but I
think that's what makes him areally great journalist.

(01:04:54):
Like he doesn't let people getaway with stuff.
He digs really deep in his, uh,in his research.
And, um, you know, in the pastwe've had hot and cold
experiences together wheresometimes I've done, I've said
things that I was wrong and we'dgotten to eat at arguments and

(01:05:15):
whatever and he was wrong.
And, but years later we saw eachother at an event and we kind of
brushed everything off andstarted fresh.
And we did an interview togetherrecently.
And, um, he, before posting it,he tweeted a very, very strong

(01:05:36):
message about how, how yourespected me and how the
community was lucky to have mekind of, and, uh, coming from
him, coming from like everythingthat he's been through that I've
been through, it meant so much.
I had tears in my eyes.
Um, because, you know, noteveryone likes me in my
community.

(01:05:56):
I can be really polarized whereyou kind of hate me or like me.
Uh, cause I'm, you know, I talkabout diversity.
I, I'm known to be a feminist,which for a lot of kids means a
bad thing when it should just beabout general equality.

(01:06:16):
I don't want female supremacy.
I just want things to be equal.
Right.
Um, and uh, it's somethingthat's not greatly seen online
and uh, you know, to havesomeone that's that respected or
that quote unquote that Irespect in the community, say

(01:06:36):
something like that, not behindthe scene, but like as a tweet,
um, a mental shit ton.
I was so whooped.
Um, and I liked it.

Dr. Shepp (01:06:50):
I bet.
I have to say though, it's soshocking to me that after all of
these years, since the feministmovement that, um, people are
still having trouble with it.
Um, it, it's really, um, amazingthat, that we haven't come to
terms after all these years withthe idea that when women say

(01:07:13):
they are wanting to be treatedequally, that it in no way
implies female domination.
Um, it's so surprising to me andsaddening to me that that's
still a perception.

Steph Harvey (01:07:26):
Have you ever seen that t-shirt?
I forgot which celebrity waswearing it, but it was written.
You're either a feminist or anasshole.
That's pretty much it.
You're either one genderequality, you're a freaking
asshole.
So in a way, most guys arefeminists who is just a day,

(01:07:49):
they don't know.

Dr. Shepp (01:07:51):
Sure.
Well, it used to be thatfeminists would go on to
university campuses and ask somepretty basic questions.
Like, do you believe that womenshould be treated equally to
men?
Do you believe that womendeserve equal pay for their
contributions to the workforce?
Do you believe that women shouldbe treated fairly without
discrimination or sexualharassment?
And when they achieve success,and of course everyone would

(01:08:13):
agree to those things and theaudience and then the speaker
would say, well, then you're afeminist.
Um, and people would findthemselves surprised that
they're, they're a feminist.
But, um, again, it's, it'sreally surprising to me that we
still struggle with that.

Steph Harvey (01:08:26):
Yeah.

Dr. Shepp (01:08:28):
Just a few more questions.
Um, Stephanie, how do you moveon from failure?

Steph Harvey (01:08:35):
Um, another great quote that really has helped me,
you either a win or you learn,there's no failure in a way.
So you don't see it as afailure.
See it as a learning importunateD and then it will never feel
like, Oh great, I love that.
[inaudible]

Dr. Shepp (01:08:54):
have you ever had what you would say was a
transformative moment in yourcareer and if so, what was it?

Speaker 5 (01:09:04):
[inaudible]

Steph Harvey (01:09:06):
every time that I was about to, uh, lose my spot
on a team, whether it's becauseof commitment or performance or
whatnot, cause it happened acouple of times in my career,
these are always life.
Like make it a break.
It kind of situations where youeither quit or you come back
stronger.

(01:09:26):
Um, and I think that's whatmakes a great champion.
Right?
Um, and I, every time I cameback stronger, but right now I'm
in the dis, I'm designing at themoment if I'm coming back
stronger or if I'm quitting andit's the hardest decision I've

(01:09:47):
ever made in my life and I'mvery confused because all I can
think about is with MichaelJordan quit or would Roger
Federer quit?
If he knew he could still win.
Um, and if, if the answer is, isI sh I want to quit, then maybe
I'm not the champion.
I think I am.
So it's very scary.

(01:10:08):
I'm very scared.
I think I need to, to figureout, like to talk to
psychologists about that so theycan lead me the right way.
Cause right now, I don't know, Ifeel like, uh, I feel like I'm
giving up even though it's been16 years old, 16 years career,
because right now I might chooseto not fight one more time.

(01:10:30):
So yeah.
What do you do?
I don't know.
Well, it's such a tough

Dr. Shepp (01:10:36):
decision because you've invested your whole life
in this career and transitionout of sport is always so
challenging and your identityhas been as an, as a champion
and as an East sports athlete,it's what you've put your whole
life and all of your time into.
So yeah, whenever that daycomes, whether it's now or, or,

(01:10:56):
or sometime in the future, um,but it's not going to be easy no
matter when that comes.
Um, because that transition isjust difficult for anyone who's
put their heart and soul into,into their competition.

Steph Harvey (01:11:10):
Yeah.
It's, yeah, it's very difficult.
I've, my old teammates that Iretired.
When do you, when does it fadeaway?
And they said it never does.
So it's like a life long lifebattle to stop competing kind
of.

Dr. Shepp (01:11:25):
Well, to bring it back to what you mentioned
before about Michael Jordan andother competitors, you can look
at their experience and see howhard it is to leave what you
love.
You know, some become coaches,some become broadcasters, some
become journalists and becomeowners.
Um, some feel like their bestdays are behind them.

(01:11:45):
And then how do you, how do youmanage that?
Um, there's just a lot ofchallenges with that transition.
But, um, and yes, of course I'dadvocate talking to a sports
psychologist.
Um, so last question, um, in 30seconds or less, Stephanie, what
have you learned about yourselffrom your particular career as

(01:12:08):
an East sports player?

Steph Harvey (01:12:11):
Um, I can't really be put in a mall.
It kinda, um, like a mold.
Like I can't follow the eight tofive pattern.
I'm different.
I sleep differently, I workdifferently.
I follow my dreams, I rushed mypassions and I can take on any
challenge.

(01:12:31):
And I'm grateful that use wordsallows me to do all of that.
Um, because I think I would havea hard time fitting in that, uh,
well we're used to be a workingday or working week and now is,
my life is very different thanstandards.

Dr. Shepp (01:12:53):
Well, you've learned a lot about yourself and you've
also taught us a lot today.
I think that people listeningwill, um, be able to take away
so many things from ourconversation, whether that be
about performing at your best orhow to navigate the online
community or how to be involvedin the lives of our kids so that
they have some online literacyand, and don't fall into some of

(01:13:15):
the traps that people havebefore them.
And thank you so much forteaching us through your
experience and um, and spendingthe time just sharing from your,
your wisdom and your learningtoday.
I really appreciate it.

Steph Harvey (01:13:26):
Thank you so much.
You're a great interviewee.
You had[inaudible], you hadgreat, uh, preparation and it
showed that it was a really funto talk to you.

Dr. Shepp (01:13:36):
Oh thanks.
It was really great talking toyou as well and I wish you the
best in whatever you choose.
Whenever you choose, um, to makea transition and I have a
feeling that you'll continue tomake an impact in whatever you
do, but I wish, I wish for youthat it will be a very happy
life.
Thank you so much.
I wish you the best as well.

(01:13:57):
This has been managed the momentwith dr Shep life physical
collection of moments.
It's how you manage the momentsthat makes the difference.
My thanks again to StephanieHarvey for joining us to share
her experience and her insightand thank you for listening.
On the next episode of themanage the moment podcast, we
will be taking a left turn to awhole different kind of

(01:14:19):
performance experience.
I hope you'll join us to listento that conversation.
The more information about themanage the moment podcast, you
can see the episode notes forthis broadcast and you can
follow us on social media.
And I'm on Twitter at dr.
Chef, you can subscribe to thispodcast on Apple podcasts,
Google podcasts, or wherever youchoose to listen to podcasts.

(01:14:44):
Thanks so much for listening andsharing these moments with us.
Until next time,

Speaker 6 (01:15:00):
[inaudible] [inaudible].