September 12, 2025 • 41 mins
Rich Ashton shares his 55-year entrepreneurial journey from real estate to running a successful service company, revealing how he transformed struggling employees into exceptional leaders through an accidental leadership book that began as internal training blogs. His approach to developing leaders by breaking through their perceived limitations has created an exceptional company culture with remarkable employee retention in an industry known for high turnover.
• Turning internal training blogs into a published leadership book for small businesses
• Breaking through leadership "ceilings" that limit employee growth and potential
• Creating accountability and proactive management within teams
• Learning from mentors throughout your business journey
• Running all business decisions through your company's "why" filter
• Addressing negative employees promptly before they impact team culture
• Selectively adopting technology while maintaining core company values
• Continuous reevaluation and commitment to excellence as keys to longevity
Find Rich's book online at Amazon and Barnes & Noble or visit growingyourown.net . You can contact Rich directly at rich@growingyourown.net or on Linkedin @RichAshton
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Episode Transcript
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Storie (00:16):
Welcome back to Market it with Atma, where we share the
tips, tools and strategies tohelp your business be successful
.
I'm your host, dori, and todaywe have on the show a guest that
has over 40 years of experiencein the entrepreneurial world.
Please welcome to the show, mrRich Ashton.
Welcome, rich.
Rich (00:34):
Thank you.
Storie (00:34):
Glad to be here.
So I'd like to start us all offwith how I do with every show
is tell us who you are and whatyou do, because you have an
extensive background in growingbusinesses.
Is that correct?
Rich (00:48):
I do, and a total of about 55 years, as a matter of fact
55 years I began in the realestate business in the early 70s
and I stayed in the real estatebusiness for several years,
sold out, decided that I wantedto run an operating company and
after selling my interest backto a fabulous company Trammell
Crow Company was where I workedI began looking for an operating
(01:13):
company.
I did a little bit more realestate development, I started a
rental company and then I foundthe company that I still own in
1988.
Wow.
The company was about to gobankrupt.
I bought it with the idea ofturning it around.
It took longer than I thought,but we successfully turned it
around and I still own thatcompany today.
Storie (01:36):
Wow, that's an incredible story.
I mean, I'm sure there'scaveats to all of those little
golden nuggets you gave us justnow, but tell us about how you
went from blogs, writing blogs,to writing your own book good
question.
Rich (01:54):
I began writing a blog as part of a training program
within our company, trying toelevate people who are good
employees into excellent leaders.
Okay, all of us come withlimitations placed on us by our
life experiences, and so everyone of these people, including
(02:18):
myself, began with a ceiling,and my job is to raise them
through that ceiling intosomething they never thought
they could they could become.
We're a blue collar company andso all of our people come in
from the field.
They're put in leadershippositions without proper
training to become leaders.
I found in designing thetraining program that by writing
(02:42):
a blog every other week, theyhad something to talk about that
was current and we forced themto talk about it as a group.
We had eight people in ourleadership training program.
We forced them once a week totalk about the blog openly and
an interesting thing happened.
They began printing out theblogs after I sent them and put
(03:04):
them in binders and kept them ontheir desk, and they used the
blogs as a reference forproblems that they were facing.
And it caused me after twoyears and I had just about run
out of ammunition, frankly, Iturned them loose and said I'm
not writing these blogs anymore.
And then one weekend at home, Iread through the series of
(03:25):
blogs and I had more than 50written at that point, wow.
And I said you know what?
This is great business, smallbusiness, fodder.
And I think I'm going to goahead and publish a book
containing these blogs.
So I didn't sit down to write abook.
I wrote the blogs and theybecame a book.
Storie (03:43):
That is an incredible story.
So can you tell me kind of whatinspired?
Have you always been a writer?
Rich (03:49):
I have, I have Okay.
Storie (03:51):
Okay, and and writing.
When you say you were writing.
Um, in what context were theblogs?
Are they?
How to blogs?
Rich (04:00):
They are very specific to specific problems, so I wrote
them in no particular order.
They all dealt with somethingthat we were facing at the time,
and then, when I converted theminto book form, I went back and
reorganized them, I took someof them out and I wound up with
a total of 35 separate blogs.
Storie (04:19):
Wow Now.
So at what point did you see adifference from the start of
writing blogs and quote unquote,forcing them to engage and read
them to actual growth inyourselves and your bottom line?
Rich (04:37):
I would guess it took about six months before we could
actually see growth.
But, as I said earlier, westarted with eight people in the
program.
At the end of two and a halfyears we have three who have had
spectacular growth.
We've had three who have hadgood, solid growth.
(04:58):
Wow.
One is no longer with ourcompany and one is struggling to
decide if he wants to be aleader or not.
Right, and so that's a.
You know, that's a 75 80success rate.
Um, I'll take that every timeno kidding.
Storie (05:15):
And to only have one that no longer works with the
company, that's incredible.
Rich (05:19):
Your retention rate must be wonderful we have a very
special culture that we haveworked hard to cultivate, and
once people who are quality cometo work for us, they tend to
stay, and our industry is knownfor lots and lots of turnover,
so it's uncommon that we have asmany longer term employees as
we do?
Storie (05:38):
Absolutely.
It's something I definitelylook for when I go to a company
to hire them for something isthe longevity of their staff.
It's so important.
The culture and I go to acompany to hire them for
something is the longevity oftheir staff.
It's so important.
The culture and I feel like alot of corporate America now is
taking on that culture, whetherit be small business, midsize or
larger, it's not so much cometo work, work, work, like the
environment and the people haveto grow right.
Rich (06:00):
I agree there's a lot more attention paid to that than
there used to be.
Storie (06:03):
Right, and so what you've done is you're kind of on
the very cutting edge of all ofthat.
You created it before peopleknew that we needed these blogs.
Quote unquote.
Rich (06:13):
Well, I was very lucky in that the first company I worked
for had a fabulous culture and agreat work ethic, and so I
learned a lot from that that Ihave carried through in
everything else that I've done.
Storie (06:26):
Wow, and so how?
As a business owner, I know yousaid you forced them to engage
in the blogs, but how did you goabout presenting this to your
staff?
Was it received well?
Was it not Like what do thesebusiness owners and our
listeners do that either don'thave a staff and need to develop
one, or that have a staff andthey get the pushback?
Rich (06:50):
That's a complicated question.
Storie (06:51):
I'm sure it is Just the CliffsNotes version, please.
Rich (06:54):
I think the first answer is is that one of the things
that is missing in the businessworld, at a certain level anyway
, is intellectual curiosity?
When I began writing the blogs,they were enjoyed and they were
filed away, and because we hadto force the people to start
(07:16):
discussing them, they didn't.
They didn't understand.
I guess that when you move intoa leadership role, you're not
just holding yourselfaccountable, you're holding
other people accountable, and wewatched the team begin to hold
themselves accountable eachother accountable.
And so they would say that's agreat idea, but I don't think
(07:40):
that's what we're supposed to bedoing.
And Rich wrote a blog aboutthat two weeks ago.
Let's pull that out and theywould read through it again
together and they'd go.
You know what.
That's right.
But had we not forced them intoan open discussion of the blogs
, I don't think they would havegotten to the same point.
I know they wouldn't have.
Storie (08:00):
Absolutely, I mean, and it no matter what industry
you're in, right.
Rich (08:03):
Correct.
Storie (08:04):
If you put your staff together and they want to
communicate about solving aproblem.
It's a team culture.
It is what you want, and nowyou need to be able to.
I would say and please correctme if I'm wrong as a business
owner, you need to be able tospot those leaders that don't
know their leaders yet.
Rich (08:21):
That's exactly right, okay .
And sometimes you spot peopleyou think are going to develop
into leaders and they don't.
Storie (08:27):
Yeah, plenty of times, right.
I mean I tell my kids all thetime you can't learn unless you
make mistakes Correct, and weeven make them today.
I make one at least a day,right.
But I learned from them.
Rich (08:38):
If you're down to one a day, you're doing pretty well.
Storie (08:40):
Yeah, at least in my eyes, right.
So you're in the serviceindustry and you kind of built
or started creating this bookthat wasn't supposed to be a
book out of the service industry, is that right?
Rich (08:52):
well, it's correct.
My but a lot of my examples arefrom there.
Some are from other people,some are from our industry, but
it's it's really observations ofbusiness through the last 55
years.
Storie (09:07):
Wow, and you say our, would you do?
You have partners, mentors?
Rich (09:13):
Oh, lots of mentors and and there's a.
There's a chapter in the bookcalled WWJD where I talk about
the influence of mentors.
And I start with my wife.
My wife is totally differentfrom me.
She's strong in all the areas.
I am not, and she's a verygracious lady and in observing
her she makes.
(09:34):
She starts relationships withinthe first minutes of meeting
people and she holds on to thoserelationships, and that's
that's something I'm a lotbetter at now than I used to be,
but when we met 44 years ago Ididn't have that skill.
And so I just sat back and saidthat's probably a skill I ought
(09:55):
to develop, and I observed andI'm still observing all these
years later.
I've done that with lots ofpeople in my life.
Entrepreneurs tend to run inpacks, and so I have lots of
entrepreneurial friends, many ofwhom have been very successful,
and I have gotten to picksomething from this one and
something from that one, butI've got a whole long list of
(10:17):
mentors in my life.
Storie (10:18):
Wow.
So would you say that businessowners like yourself that are
seasoned, have been in differentindustries or have had their
business for over five years?
Would you say that havingmentors, um, that are in or out
of the industry are pivotal inyour growth?
Rich (10:33):
I don't know how you would would grow without that right.
If you're not curious aboutwhat's out there, I, I don't.
I, I just don't know how yougrow.
Storie (10:44):
Well, I mean to that point.
I've seen a lot of people, orperceived a lot of people in
different industries that areowners to, to be a little what I
would say arrogant right, theydon't have time for you.
They're always running aroundreal, real busy and everything
like that.
So how do you get them to thispoint?
Rich (11:03):
Um, I think I probably was accused of being arrogant.
Maybe I'm still arrogant, but Iwas far more arrogant at 40
than I am now, and that camethrough the observation process.
In fact, I say in the book thataround my early 40s, my career
stagnated and I began lookingaround for why that was, and I
(11:26):
discovered that arrogance waspart of it and my style of
motivating people was notworking as well as the style
that I observed in others, andso I made a change.
Storie (11:39):
See, and that's pivotal, because it's hard to make
changes, especially in yourbusiness, accepting that you're
not right.
But with this ever-changingworld we live in now, with
digital I mean, it's alwayschanging and it's uncomfortable.
So how do business ownersbalance that change and
marketing and production and allof those different variables?
Rich (12:07):
those different variables.
There's a book that we studiedin our company called Start With
why.
That lets you, or helps you,identify why you're in this
business in the first place, andonce you get your why together,
then every decision that youmake in your business revolves
around that why make in yourbusiness revolves around that
(12:28):
why, and our why is providingexceptional service through
empowerment and support of aboveaverage employees.
So we run every decision in ourcompany through the filter of
our why and I think that reallyhas helped us stay grounded and
focused and aimed in the rightdirection.
Storie (12:43):
Wow.
So you're saying, just so I'mclear you really talk with your
whole staff, the full breadth ofyour company, about decisions
that are being made.
Rich (12:55):
We talk with the leadership team and the
leadership team takes inputwhere it's appropriate.
You know, a truly collaborativestyle of leadership leads to
pretty average outcomes.
A true leader takes input fromthe people who can give good
quality input not necessarilyagree, but give good quality
(13:16):
input and then makes a decisionbased on that input.
Storie (13:20):
I'd have to agree with that.
In my experience in life so far, all the true leaders that I've
truly felt put me where Ineeded to be when I didn't know
it, led by example.
They really had a gift to beable to see the leadership in
their staff, which I think thatyou have.
And now you're helping withthis book for business owners.
(13:42):
What type of business owner doyou think this book would
benefit the most?
Rich (13:47):
So small business owners are running with their hair on
fire the vast majority of thetime.
The last thing they have to dohave time to do is train, and so
this book is a shortcut totraining your employees.
Actually, I mentioned earlierthat our employees used it as a
desktop reference and still doso I have.
(14:08):
I have a book called extremeownership that I read many years
ago and it's a great book onleadership.
That's one of my desktop books.
Really.
This is also, and so if if weare trying to make a decision or
we're facing a difficultproblem with an employee trying
to make a decision, or we'refacing a difficult problem with
an employee we'll turn tochapter 21 or chapter 28 and
(14:29):
read through it, and it'sanother way of staying grounded
and focused.
Storie (14:33):
That is a wonderful just a team development and personal
development tool that you'rehelping your team to learn.
Are you requiring that yourteam have personal development
skills or tasks when they leave?
Rich (14:49):
We required it originally.
We don't have to require it now, right?
They're self-motivated towardthat.
Ceiling is gone, the oldceilings are gone, they're
looking for new ceilings now tobreak through.
Storie (15:01):
Wow, it's almost like you open their eyes to all of
the different possibilities thatthey could.
Rich (15:05):
I think that's well stated .
I think that's exactly what wedid.
Storie (15:07):
That's wonderful.
So what do you?
Can you tell me I know you havea lot of stories, but a pivotal
experience, either with aclient purchasing a business,
any anything within your breadthof understanding that happened
with you, that you reallylearned from and that you can
give some kind of tips orthought to our business owners
(15:29):
that are listening?
Rich (15:32):
one of the chapters in the book is called you don't know
what you don't know.
That was a big one for me.
My in my first company, or thefirst company I worked for.
I worked worked for a23-year-old MBA, harvard MBA,
whose undergraduate was at MITWow.
(15:53):
Absolutely brilliant young guyand he took me aside early on
and he said you don't reallyknow much about business.
And he said I want you to readfive periodicals each week
business periodicals plus theWall Street Journal.
And he said you're going to besurprised in a short time how
(16:15):
far your knowledge of businessgrows.
That was very pivotal, pivotal.
Pivotal for me, and it is aprogram that I continue to this
day wow.
Storie (16:28):
So it was pivotal for you because you took the advice
one and started practicing itcorrect, right.
So was that from one of yourmentors that you say um, you
kind of kept close within yourhe was.
Rich (16:42):
he was a mentor at the time.
I don't have that relationshipany longer.
I we just grew apart.
Um, he is not one that ismentioned on my list of mentors,
but he clearly was at thatpoint.
Storie (16:52):
Yes, so as a business owner can I touch on that for a
second Do you grow out of yourmentors and then, at that point,
where do you go from there?
Rich (17:01):
I have probably grown out of some, but I'm I'm fortunate
to know people who have far morebandwidth than I have.
Right.
And I will never outgrow them.
Storie (17:14):
Oh, wow, okay, so there's always a person that is
at least a level, level twoabove you, an experience or
knowledge base maybe, of thatparticular?
Rich (17:26):
Yeah, life experience.
But I also in watching mygrandson play baseball.
I watch coaches and I learnboth good and bad from the way
coaches interact with playersand with umpires and also if
you're an observer of life, Ithink you find mentors lots of
places.
Storie (17:44):
Is it hard to not try and point those things out or
correct those things when you'renot in your zone each day, when
you're out in the world?
Rich (17:52):
It was as a parent, it is not as a grandparent.
You know, it's really easy tobe a grandparent is not as a
grandparent.
Storie (18:01):
You know, it's really easy to be a grandparent.
You just really have to worryabout making sure they're.
Rich (18:04):
They're good, right?
You just gotta love them.
That's all you gotta do.
Storie (18:06):
Man, it seems like you've you've hit a point in
life.
You're really enjoying it, andit seems like your book speaks
for itself for you to be able tohave the availability to be at
your grandkids games and to comeon.
The podcast shows your processseems to be working.
Rich (18:21):
It has worked for me, quite by accident, I think, most
of the time, I think because Igot such a great start and
enjoyed business from the verystart, that I have enjoyed my
business life all along the wayand I'm still enjoying it today.
And this is I'm at atransitional point and I'm still
enjoying it today.
And this is I'm at.
I'm at a transitional point andand I'm looking forward to the
rest of it.
Storie (18:41):
That is exciting.
So what is on the horizon foryou?
Rich (18:44):
Oh, I'll be.
I'll be retired fairly soon.
I don't know exactly what thatmeans for the transition of the
business, but I am looking foropportunities.
I'm going to do some business,some real estate business, with
my two sons I.
I would love to think that thisbook will lead to some
opportunities for training andspeaking.
(19:05):
As a consultant, and so thoseare all things that are
available out there.
I think I just I have to figureout what the best avenue is,
and I have to find people whoare interested in listening to
me.
Storie (19:16):
Absolutely.
So to that point on findingpeople that are interested in
listening to me.
Absolutely, I mean so to thatpoint on finding people that are
listening to you.
How, as a thought leader, doyou find, do you attribute to
your friends that own otherbusinesses, do you feel like you
really help their business inany industry with these steps,
or do you feel like it's reallyservice industry specific?
Rich (19:41):
Well, I'll answer that by saying my youngest son called me
when he was halfway throughreading the book and he said dad
, this book is about life, thisisn't about the HVAC business,
and so I hope that's the answer.
It doesn't apply to everybusiness and it certainly does
not apply to large businesses.
You simply can't apply theseprinciples with huge teams.
Storie (20:02):
So what would you consider to be large?
You know?
Rich (20:05):
I would say if you had a team not necessarily a company,
but a team within a company of100 people, these principles are
probably not applicable, andI'll tell you why.
And I'll tell you why.
So if you have a 10 person teamand you have 10% acting up and
acting badly, it's pretty easyto counsel one person and maybe
(20:26):
replace one person.
But if you have a hundred personteam using the same 10%, you
have 10 people and those 10people are impacting 20 people
and I just think it's really,really difficult to get the
buy-in from 100 people.
It's much more difficult thangetting the buy-in from a
smaller group.
Storie (20:44):
Absolutely.
I mean natural personalitydifferences, things like that.
I mean you can try andunderstand a smaller group,
right yeah?
Rich (20:53):
And people go negative very quickly and negativity
spreads and negativity breedsmore negativity and in a larger
group it's just really difficultto get your hand on that.
Storie (21:06):
Around it, around that situation.
Negativity in any business iscrippling right.
So how because everyone's notgoing to like everybody Do you
ever touch on in this book howyou could create that harmony in
your team?
Rich (21:25):
yes and no.
I, I don't.
I don't think we specificallytalk about creating harmony.
We talk about buildingaccountability in and about
being a proactive manager.
So when you identify a problem,you take care of the problem.
And there's a line from theextreme ownership book called
it's not what you preach, it'swhat you tolerate, and, as a
(21:45):
manager, if you allow asituation to fester, it will
never get better, and you'll,all of a sudden, instead of
having one problem person,you'll have three, and so that's
not a way to create harmony.
It is a way to eliminateproblems Wow, and maybe by
default, maybe you createharmony.
It is a way to eliminateproblems Wow, and maybe by
default.
Storie (22:02):
Maybe you create harmony by doing it Unconsciously right
With a different perspective onit.
That's great advice, because Imean just seeing it each day and
how it manifested in yourbusiness.
It's very, very kind of you towant to give this knowledge to
other business owners.
Was that your goal when yourealized you know what?
Rich (22:26):
I don't know that.
It's kindness.
I love seeing people succeedand I love being a part of their
success.
One of my favorite stories is aguy who joined us at our
entry-level position.
He was driving a parked truckand he had no interest in a
career.
He was, in fact.
(22:46):
His goal was to work for sixmonths, earn enough money to go
back to Mexico, he told me thatmany years later, he's still
here, 19 years later.
He's a part of our leadershipteam, and when I mentioned that
there were three spectacularsuccesses, he's one of them.
Storie (23:02):
Wow.
Rich (23:03):
And, and so that's the, that's the fun for me.
Storie (23:05):
That is incredible.
To be able to say that isincredible.
If you'd like to shout out thethe air, his name, you're more
than welcome to.
Rich (23:14):
If not, he knows who he is .
Storie (23:16):
He knows who he is.
And I think sometimes I meanwith the majority of
entrepreneurs is it reallyintentional to develop a team
and to start your own business,or is it more?
Can you put a team together ishow you become an entrepreneur.
Rich (23:36):
Well, I think starting your own business is very
intentional, but I don't thinkmost people think about putting
the ultimate team together and,as I said earlier, you don't
have time to spend time ontraining.
We're doing this after you know30 plus years in this business
and because I'm working througha general manager, I have time
(23:59):
to do things like this.
It's not like it was 20 yearsago where my day was 100% filled
.
If I hadn't had that luxury, wecould never have done this.
So that's why the book is sovaluable, because it'll it's.
Somebody else already did thework for you and I.
I have heard from myentrepreneurial friends who have
(24:19):
read the book that they agreelike with everything and we
experienced it.
So it's a roadmap for successwith people.
That isn't really available,because it's very hard to find
leadership information for smallbusinesses.
Storie (24:39):
It is, I would say, invaluable information as well,
what you've put together.
Rich (24:44):
It's egotistical to say that, but I think so.
Storie (24:46):
Well, I mean, you can't know what's going to happen
unless you've experiencedsomething like it, right?
I mean, that's why we havementors, that's why we have
parents to teach us what we'vealready been through.
Rich (24:56):
It sure makes it a lot easier.
Storie (24:59):
Isn't it nice.
But when you don't have those,having a book like this is
really, really something that Iwish I had in the beginning of
my career and my parents had inthe beginning.
They're entrepreneurs eitherway.
They were figuring it out ducttape and butter the whole way,
but this is something that couldreally change your business,
(25:19):
would you say.
Rich (25:19):
I think so.
Storie (25:20):
Okay, I think so now um is reading this book, the only
thing that's going to changesomeone's business.
So if somebody's strugglingright now and they have that,
that toxic environment in theirproduction, whether it be with
their, their sales staff, whatis a quick, a couple quick tips
that you can give them to atleast stop the chaos from
(25:43):
happening, or that you feelwould help.
Rich (25:46):
Be transparent, be honest and do what you say you're going
to do.
If you say you're going to dealwith a problem, deal with a
problem and then come back tothe people who were affected and
say I told you I was going todeal with it, I dealt with it,
and if you still have theproblem, I need to know.
But as long as people know thatyou're authentic and you're
(26:10):
going to do what you say you'regoing to do and you're going to
follow through, they'll followthat kind of leader.
Storie (26:16):
Wow.
So what if you have a leaderthat's not authentic?
Um, as a C-suite executive inmany different industries, how
do you know when, when, when topivot, when you're not growing
anymore with, with the rest ofyour C-suite?
Rich (26:37):
That's a particular weakness of mine.
I like people, I'm loyal topeople and I'm pretty optimistic
about people, and I would saythat the mistake I have made
most often is in trying to rehabpeople who are not rehabable.
And when you say rehab do youkind of mean what I think of
that is investing too much timethat could have been focused on
(27:00):
other things and one of theterms I've used in the book is
that when you have a negativeemployee or an employee who's
not up to speed, not only arethey not producing at the proper
level, but they're occupying aspot that could be occupied by a
superstar.
That could be occupied by asuperstar.
So the longer you allow thatemployee to remain in the
(27:21):
organization, the more you haveretarded the organization from
the growth that a superstarcould provide.
Storie (27:28):
Absolutely Not only deterred the superstar, but
you're also planning.
It's just like apples rotten ina bag, right, correct?
You're just slowly poisoningeveryone in the environment,
would you say so?
Thank you for those tips,because I agree with you on
those things being transparent,and it's kind of like kids for
(27:49):
people that don't have kids.
If you don't follow throughwith your threat, they will walk
all over you.
Rich (27:53):
Correct If you agree with that it really is to.
Storie (27:59):
to frame it in a different way, just like raising
children If you don't followthrough, life's going to run all
over you.
Rich (28:07):
The.
The parallels between parentingand running a small business
are uncanny.
Storie (28:11):
So similar, especially in the service industry.
So I recently worked in theservice industry a couple of
years ago, just for a change ofpace and, oh my goodness, the
the emotional chaos that happenswithin that industry.
It was surprising to me and andjust how important process and
team development truly have tobe when you're in a very fast
(28:33):
pace.
Fire drill kind of mentalitywould you say.
Rich (28:37):
I would.
Storie (28:38):
So what industry do you feel was the easiest for you to
build and grow?
Rich (28:45):
I've never been asked that question.
Storie (28:47):
Oh, yes, I got a good one.
Rich (28:48):
I don't know that any of them were easier.
I think the same principlesapply in the businesses that I
have chosen to be in.
I was in the used officefurniture business for a while.
I know it sounds odd.
It was one of the most funbusiness concepts I've ever
pursued, but I couldn't findanybody to run the business and
(29:10):
shut it down after a while.
So that's the opposite of whatyou asked me.
That wasn't the most fun.
That was.
It was the most fun business tobe in in.
It was the least fun because Ifailed at it you know what?
Storie (29:22):
you don't mention that in the beginning.
How many times you failed at it, right?
So do you think that if youhadn't failed at these other
businesses, you would never havehave grown this business the
way you had?
Rich (29:34):
um, yeah, I mean, we all learn from our failures and I'm
not sure you learn more.
Learn more from your failures,but you better learn something
from them.
Storie (29:42):
Right, If you don't, I mean you shouldn't be a business
owner.
Rich (29:45):
Correct, you're going to do it again.
Storie (29:46):
Again and again.
So we kind of touched on overtime how the digital world has
changed when it comes tobusiness.
How do you keep up with thedigital age and the advertising
and the marketing, because it'schanged a lot since you started
in 88, right?
Rich (30:03):
Oh, it's changed tremendously and changes every
single day.
I would say that I don't have,at this age I don't have the
grasp on technology that I wouldlove to have.
Fortunately, our generalmanager does, and so he kind of
leads that part of theorganization.
I handle the marketing, hehandles the details on the
(30:24):
marketing, and that's good,because at this age I simply
can't grasp as much abouttechnology.
I can appreciate it and I'mjust fascinated with all the
possibilities of AI, and we areright now incorporating some AI
into our business.
Wow.
But if I sat down and tried toexplain AI to you, I'd I'd I'd
(30:45):
be lost.
Storie (30:47):
But you see the benefit right.
And that's wonderful, becauseif you don't, if you don't come
with the change, like when theinternet was created and
everyone started chatting, therewas so much resistance and I
feel like there was a lot ofresistance with AI coming in,
but you get out of it what youput into it and any growth of a
company, right I mean.
(31:07):
So if you're going to try it,try it 100%, would you say that
that's very important for aleadership team to do in a
business.
Rich (31:16):
I think it goes back to that intellectual curiosity.
You need to learn everythingthere is that you can understand
and know about it and make aninformed decision.
I don't.
I'm sure there are things withAI that I don't want a part of
our business.
For instance, I getsolicitations all the time from
companies who want to interactwith our customers directly with
(31:41):
AI.
Well, we're a personal servicescompany and we pride ourselves
on the fact that you talk toreal people.
It's hard for me to imaginethat AI can do that better.
They can do it faster, they cando it cheaper.
I don't think they can do itbetter and if we stay true to
our core mission of providingexceptional customer service, I
(32:01):
doubt seriously that AI can dothat as well as we can do it.
Storie (32:05):
I agree with you on that .
Would you say that any businessthat doesn't see the benefit in
AI will not do as well asothers in your opinion?
Rich (32:19):
I'm not sure I can say that.
I think you have to be open toit and whatever comes after AI,
you have to be open to that too.
But it goes back to understandwhat it does, understand how it
conflicts with what you're aboutand if there are conflicts,
rule those out.
But if there are opportunities,take advantage of them.
Storie (32:39):
I would definitely have to agree with that, but I feel
like these businesses that givethat personal touch, there's
going to be a whole area ofpeople that are really hesitant
and push back on the AI, which Icompletely understand, because
I hate talking to AI when I gothrough a drive-thru.
But I mean, how, how successfuldo you see moms and pops that
(33:02):
give that personal touch beingin comparison to the, to the
companies that are using it?
Because in my opinion myopinion and I haven't been in
any industry near as long as youhave, but in my opinion I feel
like that is going to increasethe value of the mom and pop
businesses that want to givethat personal hand on hand.
Rich (33:22):
I'd like to believe that, because we fall more in the
category of a mom and pop, but Idon't think a mom and pop can
ever reach the scale that theymight like to without employing
some of those digitalmethodologies.
Storie (33:39):
And that was going to be my next question is do you feel
like that's necessary?
Rich (33:43):
It's necessary and you have to decide who you want to
be.
We have always said that wedidn't necessarily need to be
the largest, but we needed to bethe best, and the best for us
is in providing exceptionalcustomer service.
Anything that we do thatdiminishes the level of our
service in the interest ofgrowth is the wrong thing for us
(34:04):
to do.
Storie (34:04):
Wow, can you give me an example of that, because I can
see the passion in you, but anexample of one of the situations
that caused this thoughtprocess and methodology.
Rich (34:13):
Well, I think we just go back to interacting with AI as
opposed to interacting withpeople.
We insist that our people beinvolved in all communication
and I just I don't want to takethat away from our customers,
and certainly those who havebeen with us a long time would
(34:34):
be offended by it.
But I don't know that we wouldattract as many new long-term
customers by taking shortcutslike AI as we can, growing up
maybe a little bit more slowly,but on a very solid path, by
doing it the way we're doing it.
Storie (34:50):
Well understanding your buyer personas.
Right Understanding yourclientele is very important, and
if you just said that, a lot ofour clients wouldn't appreciate
that or the transition, I thinkthat's a big part of owning a
business is understanding notwhat you like or what you think
will work, but what your currentbuying personas are buying.
Rich (35:14):
Would you agree?
Well, a hundred percent.
And you have to know who youare and you have to know who
your market is.
We don't choose to be allthings to all people, but we
choose to be really, really goodwith the people.
That kind of fit the profile ofwho we're trying to sell to.
Storie (35:30):
Which is wonderful, so what what I know?
I've already asked that kind offit the profile of who we're
trying to sell to, which iswonderful, so what what I know?
I've already asked you kind ofwhat advice would you give to a
business owner immediately, butwhat is for other business
owners listening?
What's the very first stepyou'd recommend in creating a
better team of leadership?
Rich (35:52):
Well, I'd certainly want them to read my book.
Storie (35:54):
Obviously, I'm about to stop it and take a look at it
over there.
Rich (36:01):
I think the other thing I would say is read.
Start with why, Because I thinkyou have to know who you are
when we read the book together.
Start With why.
We saw ourselves in it, so weaccidentally happened into the
formula that they talk about.
(36:22):
We didn't have to changeanything, we just simply refined
our thinking a little bit.
But I don't think you can starta business today without having
a real clear sense of who youare and where you're going.
Storie (36:36):
That's wonderful advice.
Maybe I need to take a look atwho I am right, but for any
business owner small, large inbetween you have to reevaluate
yourself at periodic points.
All the time you have toreevaluate yourself at periodic
points All the time, would yousay more often than a leadership
staff member, would I mean youreally kind of got to step back,
(36:56):
at least once a year, once amonth, I would say and really
look at what you're doing.
Rich (37:02):
A business like ours is built on transactions.
Storie (37:12):
And I truly think you have to evaluate every
transaction.
Live by the walk-in, die by thewalk-in Is that kind of a
mentality that you've used inthe service industry?
Rich (37:20):
I'm not familiar with that .
Storie (37:21):
The live by the walk-in, die by the walk-in.
So you, if you only are showingyourself to the people that are
walking in the door, yourclients that are walking in the
door, you're not creating arelationship, right?
I mean you've got to have thatbrand awareness, that trust.
So to that point, would you say, brand awareness and marketing
is something that your companyhas always done throughout the
(37:44):
years and that's helped yourtrust.
Rich (37:46):
I think we have.
We talk a little bit aboutprice, but it's never foremost
in our advertising.
We're not a discounter, we're acompany that provides value and
we need our customers tounderstand that value is not
cheap.
We're not the most expensive,but we're very comfortable
staying above the midpoint onprice because it costs money to
(38:11):
provide value, and we have.
We've stayed true to that theentire time that I've been there
.
Storie (38:16):
Staying true to that vision and mission statement.
I think is where it is, because97% of businesses don't make it
past two years is what I.
The last stat I read You'vebeen in business for 40 years.
I read you've been in businessfor 40 years.
At what point over the hump?
Because over two years it'svery hard for businesses.
At what point do you reallyfeel like you've got it running?
(38:38):
At what year milestone did youfeel like you had it running
smooth?
Help us.
Rich (38:44):
Well, I've had that thought several times and then
lost it, interesting it.
Just, it never stops.
The innovation never stops, thecommitment to excellence never
stops.
The, the reevaluation of howevery interaction went, should
never stop.
And so you know, the the theeconomy changes, the government
(39:06):
makes, makes rules that changeyour industry.
So you know, you've never madeit, in my opinion.
Storie (39:12):
You've never made it if you don't kind of keep up with.
Rich (39:16):
You've never made it regardless.
I mean tomorrow.
You know we were rocking alongin pretty good shape until COVID
came.
And then, we lost 20% of ourbusiness that year.
So I don't know.
I don't know what's around thecorner.
I just know that if we staytrue to our mission, we have a
much better chance of survivalthan if we don't.
Storie (39:38):
Wow, well, I I would really love to have you back on
the show at a later date andmaybe we could start like a
series of episodes with you forthis thought leadership, because
podcasts are everything rightnow.
Right, and we want to.
We want to be diverse in theculture and the age range of
people we're talking to, becausesomeone like you I would have
loved to have had when I was 20.
So let me help you with thatmarketing aspect of it, and if
(39:58):
our viewers see all the valuethat I see in you, I would
really really highly suggest allof our viewers to go and buy
the book.
Where can they buy it?
Rich (40:09):
It's online at Amazon and Barnes Noble right now.
Storie (40:12):
Awesome, and is there any other way that they can
contact you for thoughtleadership, for coaching?
Speaking, how would they reachyou?
Rich (40:18):
The website for the book is growingyourownnet.
Okay, and my email is rich atgrowingyourownnet.
Storie (40:26):
And I will paste it in the bottom of the comments on
the episode once we post it.
But in the meantime, thank youso much for all the thoughts and
the encouragement from someonewho's actually been through and
walked through all the hurdlesof life.
It's very kind what you've doneWell thank you.
Rich (40:47):
It's a fun conversation to have.
I look forward to having youagain, awesome you've done.
Storie (40:50):
It's a fun conversation to have.
I look forward to having himagain.
Awesome To our listeners outthere.
If you know an entrepreneurwho's ready to really take hold
of their business, have them.
Give me a call and I'll connectyou with Rich.
And until next time, come seeus again on Marketing with Emma.
Thank you.
Welcome back to Market it with Atma, where we share the
tips, tools and strategies tohelp your business be successful
.
I'm your host, dori, and todaywe have on the show a guest that
has over 40 years of experiencein the entrepreneurial world.
Please welcome to the show, mrRich Ashton.
Welcome, rich.
Rich (00:34):
Thank you.
Storie (00:34):
Glad to be here.
So I'd like to start us all offwith how I do with every show
is tell us who you are and whatyou do, because you have an
extensive background in growingbusinesses.
Is that correct?
Rich (00:48):
I do, and a total of about 55 years, as a matter of fact
55 years I began in the realestate business in the early 70s
and I stayed in the real estatebusiness for several years,
sold out, decided that I wantedto run an operating company and
after selling my interest backto a fabulous company Trammell
Crow Company was where I workedI began looking for an operating
(01:13):
company.
I did a little bit more realestate development, I started a
rental company and then I foundthe company that I still own in
1988.
Wow.
The company was about to gobankrupt.
I bought it with the idea ofturning it around.
It took longer than I thought,but we successfully turned it
around and I still own thatcompany today.
Storie (01:36):
Wow, that's an incredible story.
I mean, I'm sure there'scaveats to all of those little
golden nuggets you gave us justnow, but tell us about how you
went from blogs, writing blogs,to writing your own book good
question.
Rich (01:54):
I began writing a blog as part of a training program
within our company, trying toelevate people who are good
employees into excellent leaders.
Okay, all of us come withlimitations placed on us by our
life experiences, and so everyone of these people, including
(02:18):
myself, began with a ceiling,and my job is to raise them
through that ceiling intosomething they never thought
they could they could become.
We're a blue collar company andso all of our people come in
from the field.
They're put in leadershippositions without proper
training to become leaders.
I found in designing thetraining program that by writing
(02:42):
a blog every other week, theyhad something to talk about that
was current and we forced themto talk about it as a group.
We had eight people in ourleadership training program.
We forced them once a week totalk about the blog openly and
an interesting thing happened.
They began printing out theblogs after I sent them and put
(03:04):
them in binders and kept them ontheir desk, and they used the
blogs as a reference forproblems that they were facing.
And it caused me after twoyears and I had just about run
out of ammunition, frankly, Iturned them loose and said I'm
not writing these blogs anymore.
And then one weekend at home, Iread through the series of
(03:25):
blogs and I had more than 50written at that point, wow.
And I said you know what?
This is great business, smallbusiness, fodder.
And I think I'm going to goahead and publish a book
containing these blogs.
So I didn't sit down to write abook.
I wrote the blogs and theybecame a book.
Storie (03:43):
That is an incredible story.
So can you tell me kind of whatinspired?
Have you always been a writer?
Rich (03:49):
I have, I have Okay.
Storie (03:51):
Okay, and and writing.
When you say you were writing.
Um, in what context were theblogs?
Are they?
How to blogs?
Rich (04:00):
They are very specific to specific problems, so I wrote
them in no particular order.
They all dealt with somethingthat we were facing at the time,
and then, when I converted theminto book form, I went back and
reorganized them, I took someof them out and I wound up with
a total of 35 separate blogs.
Storie (04:19):
Wow Now.
So at what point did you see adifference from the start of
writing blogs and quote unquote,forcing them to engage and read
them to actual growth inyourselves and your bottom line?
Rich (04:37):
I would guess it took about six months before we could
actually see growth.
But, as I said earlier, westarted with eight people in the
program.
At the end of two and a halfyears we have three who have had
spectacular growth.
We've had three who have hadgood, solid growth.
(04:58):
Wow.
One is no longer with ourcompany and one is struggling to
decide if he wants to be aleader or not.
Right, and so that's a.
You know, that's a 75 80success rate.
Um, I'll take that every timeno kidding.
Storie (05:15):
And to only have one that no longer works with the
company, that's incredible.
Rich (05:19):
Your retention rate must be wonderful we have a very
special culture that we haveworked hard to cultivate, and
once people who are quality cometo work for us, they tend to
stay, and our industry is knownfor lots and lots of turnover,
so it's uncommon that we have asmany longer term employees as
we do?
Storie (05:38):
Absolutely.
It's something I definitelylook for when I go to a company
to hire them for something isthe longevity of their staff.
It's so important.
The culture and I go to acompany to hire them for
something is the longevity oftheir staff.
It's so important.
The culture and I feel like alot of corporate America now is
taking on that culture, whetherit be small business, midsize or
larger, it's not so much cometo work, work, work, like the
environment and the people haveto grow right.
Rich (06:00):
I agree there's a lot more attention paid to that than
there used to be.
Storie (06:03):
Right, and so what you've done is you're kind of on
the very cutting edge of all ofthat.
You created it before peopleknew that we needed these blogs.
Quote unquote.
Rich (06:13):
Well, I was very lucky in that the first company I worked
for had a fabulous culture and agreat work ethic, and so I
learned a lot from that that Ihave carried through in
everything else that I've done.
Storie (06:26):
Wow, and so how?
As a business owner, I know yousaid you forced them to engage
in the blogs, but how did you goabout presenting this to your
staff?
Was it received well?
Was it not Like what do thesebusiness owners and our
listeners do that either don'thave a staff and need to develop
one, or that have a staff andthey get the pushback?
Rich (06:50):
That's a complicated question.
Storie (06:51):
I'm sure it is Just the CliffsNotes version, please.
Rich (06:54):
I think the first answer is is that one of the things
that is missing in the businessworld, at a certain level anyway
, is intellectual curiosity?
When I began writing the blogs,they were enjoyed and they were
filed away, and because we hadto force the people to start
(07:16):
discussing them, they didn't.
They didn't understand.
I guess that when you move intoa leadership role, you're not
just holding yourselfaccountable, you're holding
other people accountable, and wewatched the team begin to hold
themselves accountable eachother accountable.
And so they would say that's agreat idea, but I don't think
(07:40):
that's what we're supposed to bedoing.
And Rich wrote a blog aboutthat two weeks ago.
Let's pull that out and theywould read through it again
together and they'd go.
You know what.
That's right.
But had we not forced them intoan open discussion of the blogs
, I don't think they would havegotten to the same point.
I know they wouldn't have.
Storie (08:00):
Absolutely, I mean, and it no matter what industry
you're in, right.
Rich (08:03):
Correct.
Storie (08:04):
If you put your staff together and they want to
communicate about solving aproblem.
It's a team culture.
It is what you want, and nowyou need to be able to.
I would say and please correctme if I'm wrong as a business
owner, you need to be able tospot those leaders that don't
know their leaders yet.
Rich (08:21):
That's exactly right, okay .
And sometimes you spot peopleyou think are going to develop
into leaders and they don't.
Storie (08:27):
Yeah, plenty of times, right.
I mean I tell my kids all thetime you can't learn unless you
make mistakes Correct, and weeven make them today.
I make one at least a day,right.
But I learned from them.
Rich (08:38):
If you're down to one a day, you're doing pretty well.
Storie (08:40):
Yeah, at least in my eyes, right.
So you're in the serviceindustry and you kind of built
or started creating this bookthat wasn't supposed to be a
book out of the service industry, is that right?
Rich (08:52):
well, it's correct.
My but a lot of my examples arefrom there.
Some are from other people,some are from our industry, but
it's it's really observations ofbusiness through the last 55
years.
Storie (09:07):
Wow, and you say our, would you do?
You have partners, mentors?
Rich (09:13):
Oh, lots of mentors and and there's a.
There's a chapter in the bookcalled WWJD where I talk about
the influence of mentors.
And I start with my wife.
My wife is totally differentfrom me.
She's strong in all the areas.
I am not, and she's a verygracious lady and in observing
her she makes.
(09:34):
She starts relationships withinthe first minutes of meeting
people and she holds on to thoserelationships, and that's
that's something I'm a lotbetter at now than I used to be,
but when we met 44 years ago Ididn't have that skill.
And so I just sat back and saidthat's probably a skill I ought
(09:55):
to develop, and I observed andI'm still observing all these
years later.
I've done that with lots ofpeople in my life.
Entrepreneurs tend to run inpacks, and so I have lots of
entrepreneurial friends, many ofwhom have been very successful,
and I have gotten to picksomething from this one and
something from that one, butI've got a whole long list of
(10:17):
mentors in my life.
Storie (10:18):
Wow.
So would you say that businessowners like yourself that are
seasoned, have been in differentindustries or have had their
business for over five years?
Would you say that havingmentors, um, that are in or out
of the industry are pivotal inyour growth?
Rich (10:33):
I don't know how you would would grow without that right.
If you're not curious aboutwhat's out there, I, I don't.
I, I just don't know how yougrow.
Storie (10:44):
Well, I mean to that point.
I've seen a lot of people, orperceived a lot of people in
different industries that areowners to, to be a little what I
would say arrogant right, theydon't have time for you.
They're always running aroundreal, real busy and everything
like that.
So how do you get them to thispoint?
Rich (11:03):
Um, I think I probably was accused of being arrogant.
Maybe I'm still arrogant, but Iwas far more arrogant at 40
than I am now, and that camethrough the observation process.
In fact, I say in the book thataround my early 40s, my career
stagnated and I began lookingaround for why that was, and I
(11:26):
discovered that arrogance waspart of it and my style of
motivating people was notworking as well as the style
that I observed in others, andso I made a change.
Storie (11:39):
See, and that's pivotal, because it's hard to make
changes, especially in yourbusiness, accepting that you're
not right.
But with this ever-changingworld we live in now, with
digital I mean, it's alwayschanging and it's uncomfortable.
So how do business ownersbalance that change and
marketing and production and allof those different variables?
Rich (12:07):
those different variables.
There's a book that we studiedin our company called Start With
why.
That lets you, or helps you,identify why you're in this
business in the first place, andonce you get your why together,
then every decision that youmake in your business revolves
around that why make in yourbusiness revolves around that
(12:28):
why, and our why is providingexceptional service through
empowerment and support of aboveaverage employees.
So we run every decision in ourcompany through the filter of
our why and I think that reallyhas helped us stay grounded and
focused and aimed in the rightdirection.
Storie (12:43):
Wow.
So you're saying, just so I'mclear you really talk with your
whole staff, the full breadth ofyour company, about decisions
that are being made.
Rich (12:55):
We talk with the leadership team and the
leadership team takes inputwhere it's appropriate.
You know, a truly collaborativestyle of leadership leads to
pretty average outcomes.
A true leader takes input fromthe people who can give good
quality input not necessarilyagree, but give good quality
(13:16):
input and then makes a decisionbased on that input.
Storie (13:20):
I'd have to agree with that.
In my experience in life so far, all the true leaders that I've
truly felt put me where Ineeded to be when I didn't know
it, led by example.
They really had a gift to beable to see the leadership in
their staff, which I think thatyou have.
And now you're helping withthis book for business owners.
(13:42):
What type of business owner doyou think this book would
benefit the most?
Rich (13:47):
So small business owners are running with their hair on
fire the vast majority of thetime.
The last thing they have to dohave time to do is train, and so
this book is a shortcut totraining your employees.
Actually, I mentioned earlierthat our employees used it as a
desktop reference and still doso I have.
(14:08):
I have a book called extremeownership that I read many years
ago and it's a great book onleadership.
That's one of my desktop books.
Really.
This is also, and so if if weare trying to make a decision or
we're facing a difficultproblem with an employee trying
to make a decision, or we'refacing a difficult problem with
an employee we'll turn tochapter 21 or chapter 28 and
(14:29):
read through it, and it'sanother way of staying grounded
and focused.
Storie (14:33):
That is a wonderful just a team development and personal
development tool that you'rehelping your team to learn.
Are you requiring that yourteam have personal development
skills or tasks when they leave?
Rich (14:49):
We required it originally.
We don't have to require it now, right?
They're self-motivated towardthat.
Ceiling is gone, the oldceilings are gone, they're
looking for new ceilings now tobreak through.
Storie (15:01):
Wow, it's almost like you open their eyes to all of
the different possibilities thatthey could.
Rich (15:05):
I think that's well stated .
I think that's exactly what wedid.
Storie (15:07):
That's wonderful.
So what do you?
Can you tell me I know you havea lot of stories, but a pivotal
experience, either with aclient purchasing a business,
any anything within your breadthof understanding that happened
with you, that you reallylearned from and that you can
give some kind of tips orthought to our business owners
(15:29):
that are listening?
Rich (15:32):
one of the chapters in the book is called you don't know
what you don't know.
That was a big one for me.
My in my first company, or thefirst company I worked for.
I worked worked for a23-year-old MBA, harvard MBA,
whose undergraduate was at MITWow.
(15:53):
Absolutely brilliant young guyand he took me aside early on
and he said you don't reallyknow much about business.
And he said I want you to readfive periodicals each week
business periodicals plus theWall Street Journal.
And he said you're going to besurprised in a short time how
(16:15):
far your knowledge of businessgrows.
That was very pivotal, pivotal.
Pivotal for me, and it is aprogram that I continue to this
day wow.
Storie (16:28):
So it was pivotal for you because you took the advice
one and started practicing itcorrect, right.
So was that from one of yourmentors that you say um, you
kind of kept close within yourhe was.
Rich (16:42):
he was a mentor at the time.
I don't have that relationshipany longer.
I we just grew apart.
Um, he is not one that ismentioned on my list of mentors,
but he clearly was at thatpoint.
Storie (16:52):
Yes, so as a business owner can I touch on that for a
second Do you grow out of yourmentors and then, at that point,
where do you go from there?
Rich (17:01):
I have probably grown out of some, but I'm I'm fortunate
to know people who have far morebandwidth than I have.
Right.
And I will never outgrow them.
Storie (17:14):
Oh, wow, okay, so there's always a person that is
at least a level, level twoabove you, an experience or
knowledge base maybe, of thatparticular?
Rich (17:26):
Yeah, life experience.
But I also in watching mygrandson play baseball.
I watch coaches and I learnboth good and bad from the way
coaches interact with playersand with umpires and also if
you're an observer of life, Ithink you find mentors lots of
places.
Storie (17:44):
Is it hard to not try and point those things out or
correct those things when you'renot in your zone each day, when
you're out in the world?
Rich (17:52):
It was as a parent, it is not as a grandparent.
You know, it's really easy tobe a grandparent is not as a
grandparent.
Storie (18:01):
You know, it's really easy to be a grandparent.
You just really have to worryabout making sure they're.
Rich (18:04):
They're good, right?
You just gotta love them.
That's all you gotta do.
Storie (18:06):
Man, it seems like you've you've hit a point in
life.
You're really enjoying it, andit seems like your book speaks
for itself for you to be able tohave the availability to be at
your grandkids games and to comeon.
The podcast shows your processseems to be working.
Rich (18:21):
It has worked for me, quite by accident, I think, most
of the time, I think because Igot such a great start and
enjoyed business from the verystart, that I have enjoyed my
business life all along the wayand I'm still enjoying it today.
And this is I'm at atransitional point and I'm still
enjoying it today.
And this is I'm at.
I'm at a transitional point andand I'm looking forward to the
rest of it.
Storie (18:41):
That is exciting.
So what is on the horizon foryou?
Rich (18:44):
Oh, I'll be.
I'll be retired fairly soon.
I don't know exactly what thatmeans for the transition of the
business, but I am looking foropportunities.
I'm going to do some business,some real estate business, with
my two sons I.
I would love to think that thisbook will lead to some
opportunities for training andspeaking.
(19:05):
As a consultant, and so thoseare all things that are
available out there.
I think I just I have to figureout what the best avenue is,
and I have to find people whoare interested in listening to
me.
Storie (19:16):
Absolutely.
So to that point on findingpeople that are interested in
listening to me.
Absolutely, I mean so to thatpoint on finding people that are
listening to you.
How, as a thought leader, doyou find, do you attribute to
your friends that own otherbusinesses, do you feel like you
really help their business inany industry with these steps,
or do you feel like it's reallyservice industry specific?
Rich (19:41):
Well, I'll answer that by saying my youngest son called me
when he was halfway throughreading the book and he said dad
, this book is about life, thisisn't about the HVAC business,
and so I hope that's the answer.
It doesn't apply to everybusiness and it certainly does
not apply to large businesses.
You simply can't apply theseprinciples with huge teams.
Storie (20:02):
So what would you consider to be large?
You know?
Rich (20:05):
I would say if you had a team not necessarily a company,
but a team within a company of100 people, these principles are
probably not applicable, andI'll tell you why.
And I'll tell you why.
So if you have a 10 person teamand you have 10% acting up and
acting badly, it's pretty easyto counsel one person and maybe
(20:26):
replace one person.
But if you have a hundred personteam using the same 10%, you
have 10 people and those 10people are impacting 20 people
and I just think it's really,really difficult to get the
buy-in from 100 people.
It's much more difficult thangetting the buy-in from a
smaller group.
Storie (20:44):
Absolutely.
I mean natural personalitydifferences, things like that.
I mean you can try andunderstand a smaller group,
right yeah?
Rich (20:53):
And people go negative very quickly and negativity
spreads and negativity breedsmore negativity and in a larger
group it's just really difficultto get your hand on that.
Storie (21:06):
Around it, around that situation.
Negativity in any business iscrippling right.
So how because everyone's notgoing to like everybody Do you
ever touch on in this book howyou could create that harmony in
your team?
Rich (21:25):
yes and no.
I, I don't.
I don't think we specificallytalk about creating harmony.
We talk about buildingaccountability in and about
being a proactive manager.
So when you identify a problem,you take care of the problem.
And there's a line from theextreme ownership book called
it's not what you preach, it'swhat you tolerate, and, as a
(21:45):
manager, if you allow asituation to fester, it will
never get better, and you'll,all of a sudden, instead of
having one problem person,you'll have three, and so that's
not a way to create harmony.
It is a way to eliminateproblems Wow, and maybe by
default, maybe you createharmony.
It is a way to eliminateproblems Wow, and maybe by
default.
Storie (22:02):
Maybe you create harmony by doing it Unconsciously right
With a different perspective onit.
That's great advice, because Imean just seeing it each day and
how it manifested in yourbusiness.
It's very, very kind of you towant to give this knowledge to
other business owners.
Was that your goal when yourealized you know what?
Rich (22:26):
I don't know that.
It's kindness.
I love seeing people succeedand I love being a part of their
success.
One of my favorite stories is aguy who joined us at our
entry-level position.
He was driving a parked truckand he had no interest in a
career.
He was, in fact.
(22:46):
His goal was to work for sixmonths, earn enough money to go
back to Mexico, he told me thatmany years later, he's still
here, 19 years later.
He's a part of our leadershipteam, and when I mentioned that
there were three spectacularsuccesses, he's one of them.
Storie (23:02):
Wow.
Rich (23:03):
And, and so that's the, that's the fun for me.
Storie (23:05):
That is incredible.
To be able to say that isincredible.
If you'd like to shout out thethe air, his name, you're more
than welcome to.
Rich (23:14):
If not, he knows who he is .
Storie (23:16):
He knows who he is.
And I think sometimes I meanwith the majority of
entrepreneurs is it reallyintentional to develop a team
and to start your own business,or is it more?
Can you put a team together ishow you become an entrepreneur.
Rich (23:36):
Well, I think starting your own business is very
intentional, but I don't thinkmost people think about putting
the ultimate team together and,as I said earlier, you don't
have time to spend time ontraining.
We're doing this after you know30 plus years in this business
and because I'm working througha general manager, I have time
(23:59):
to do things like this.
It's not like it was 20 yearsago where my day was 100% filled
.
If I hadn't had that luxury, wecould never have done this.
So that's why the book is sovaluable, because it'll it's.
Somebody else already did thework for you and I.
I have heard from myentrepreneurial friends who have
(24:19):
read the book that they agreelike with everything and we
experienced it.
So it's a roadmap for successwith people.
That isn't really available,because it's very hard to find
leadership information for smallbusinesses.
Storie (24:39):
It is, I would say, invaluable information as well,
what you've put together.
Rich (24:44):
It's egotistical to say that, but I think so.
Storie (24:46):
Well, I mean, you can't know what's going to happen
unless you've experiencedsomething like it, right?
I mean, that's why we havementors, that's why we have
parents to teach us what we'vealready been through.
Rich (24:56):
It sure makes it a lot easier.
Storie (24:59):
Isn't it nice.
But when you don't have those,having a book like this is
really, really something that Iwish I had in the beginning of
my career and my parents had inthe beginning.
They're entrepreneurs eitherway.
They were figuring it out ducttape and butter the whole way,
but this is something that couldreally change your business,
(25:19):
would you say.
Rich (25:19):
I think so.
Storie (25:20):
Okay, I think so now um is reading this book, the only
thing that's going to changesomeone's business.
So if somebody's strugglingright now and they have that,
that toxic environment in theirproduction, whether it be with
their, their sales staff, whatis a quick, a couple quick tips
that you can give them to atleast stop the chaos from
(25:43):
happening, or that you feelwould help.
Rich (25:46):
Be transparent, be honest and do what you say you're going
to do.
If you say you're going to dealwith a problem, deal with a
problem and then come back tothe people who were affected and
say I told you I was going todeal with it, I dealt with it,
and if you still have theproblem, I need to know.
But as long as people know thatyou're authentic and you're
(26:10):
going to do what you say you'regoing to do and you're going to
follow through, they'll followthat kind of leader.
Storie (26:16):
Wow.
So what if you have a leaderthat's not authentic?
Um, as a C-suite executive inmany different industries, how
do you know when, when, when topivot, when you're not growing
anymore with, with the rest ofyour C-suite?
Rich (26:37):
That's a particular weakness of mine.
I like people, I'm loyal topeople and I'm pretty optimistic
about people, and I would saythat the mistake I have made
most often is in trying to rehabpeople who are not rehabable.
And when you say rehab do youkind of mean what I think of
that is investing too much timethat could have been focused on
(27:00):
other things and one of theterms I've used in the book is
that when you have a negativeemployee or an employee who's
not up to speed, not only arethey not producing at the proper
level, but they're occupying aspot that could be occupied by a
superstar.
That could be occupied by asuperstar.
So the longer you allow thatemployee to remain in the
(27:21):
organization, the more you haveretarded the organization from
the growth that a superstarcould provide.
Storie (27:28):
Absolutely Not only deterred the superstar, but
you're also planning.
It's just like apples rotten ina bag, right, correct?
You're just slowly poisoningeveryone in the environment,
would you say so?
Thank you for those tips,because I agree with you on
those things being transparent,and it's kind of like kids for
(27:49):
people that don't have kids.
If you don't follow throughwith your threat, they will walk
all over you.
Rich (27:53):
Correct If you agree with that it really is to.
Storie (27:59):
to frame it in a different way, just like raising
children If you don't followthrough, life's going to run all
over you.
Rich (28:07):
The.
The parallels between parentingand running a small business
are uncanny.
Storie (28:11):
So similar, especially in the service industry.
So I recently worked in theservice industry a couple of
years ago, just for a change ofpace and, oh my goodness, the
the emotional chaos that happenswithin that industry.
It was surprising to me and andjust how important process and
team development truly have tobe when you're in a very fast
(28:33):
pace.
Fire drill kind of mentalitywould you say.
Rich (28:37):
I would.
Storie (28:38):
So what industry do you feel was the easiest for you to
build and grow?
Rich (28:45):
I've never been asked that question.
Storie (28:47):
Oh, yes, I got a good one.
Rich (28:48):
I don't know that any of them were easier.
I think the same principlesapply in the businesses that I
have chosen to be in.
I was in the used officefurniture business for a while.
I know it sounds odd.
It was one of the most funbusiness concepts I've ever
pursued, but I couldn't findanybody to run the business and
(29:10):
shut it down after a while.
So that's the opposite of whatyou asked me.
That wasn't the most fun.
That was.
It was the most fun business tobe in in.
It was the least fun because Ifailed at it you know what?
Storie (29:22):
you don't mention that in the beginning.
How many times you failed at it, right?
So do you think that if youhadn't failed at these other
businesses, you would never havehave grown this business the
way you had?
Rich (29:34):
um, yeah, I mean, we all learn from our failures and I'm
not sure you learn more.
Learn more from your failures,but you better learn something
from them.
Storie (29:42):
Right, If you don't, I mean you shouldn't be a business
owner.
Rich (29:45):
Correct, you're going to do it again.
Storie (29:46):
Again and again.
So we kind of touched on overtime how the digital world has
changed when it comes tobusiness.
How do you keep up with thedigital age and the advertising
and the marketing, because it'schanged a lot since you started
in 88, right?
Rich (30:03):
Oh, it's changed tremendously and changes every
single day.
I would say that I don't have,at this age I don't have the
grasp on technology that I wouldlove to have.
Fortunately, our generalmanager does, and so he kind of
leads that part of theorganization.
I handle the marketing, hehandles the details on the
(30:24):
marketing, and that's good,because at this age I simply
can't grasp as much abouttechnology.
I can appreciate it and I'mjust fascinated with all the
possibilities of AI, and we areright now incorporating some AI
into our business.
Wow.
But if I sat down and tried toexplain AI to you, I'd I'd I'd
(30:45):
be lost.
Storie (30:47):
But you see the benefit right.
And that's wonderful, becauseif you don't, if you don't come
with the change, like when theinternet was created and
everyone started chatting, therewas so much resistance and I
feel like there was a lot ofresistance with AI coming in,
but you get out of it what youput into it and any growth of a
company, right I mean.
(31:07):
So if you're going to try it,try it 100%, would you say that
that's very important for aleadership team to do in a
business.
Rich (31:16):
I think it goes back to that intellectual curiosity.
You need to learn everythingthere is that you can understand
and know about it and make aninformed decision.
I don't.
I'm sure there are things withAI that I don't want a part of
our business.
For instance, I getsolicitations all the time from
companies who want to interactwith our customers directly with
(31:41):
AI.
Well, we're a personal servicescompany and we pride ourselves
on the fact that you talk toreal people.
It's hard for me to imaginethat AI can do that better.
They can do it faster, they cando it cheaper.
I don't think they can do itbetter and if we stay true to
our core mission of providingexceptional customer service, I
(32:01):
doubt seriously that AI can dothat as well as we can do it.
Storie (32:05):
I agree with you on that .
Would you say that any businessthat doesn't see the benefit in
AI will not do as well asothers in your opinion?
Rich (32:19):
I'm not sure I can say that.
I think you have to be open toit and whatever comes after AI,
you have to be open to that too.
But it goes back to understandwhat it does, understand how it
conflicts with what you're aboutand if there are conflicts,
rule those out.
But if there are opportunities,take advantage of them.
Storie (32:39):
I would definitely have to agree with that, but I feel
like these businesses that givethat personal touch, there's
going to be a whole area ofpeople that are really hesitant
and push back on the AI, which Icompletely understand, because
I hate talking to AI when I gothrough a drive-thru.
But I mean, how, how successfuldo you see moms and pops that
(33:02):
give that personal touch beingin comparison to the, to the
companies that are using it?
Because in my opinion myopinion and I haven't been in
any industry near as long as youhave, but in my opinion I feel
like that is going to increasethe value of the mom and pop
businesses that want to givethat personal hand on hand.
Rich (33:22):
I'd like to believe that, because we fall more in the
category of a mom and pop, but Idon't think a mom and pop can
ever reach the scale that theymight like to without employing
some of those digitalmethodologies.
Storie (33:39):
And that was going to be my next question is do you feel
like that's necessary?
Rich (33:43):
It's necessary and you have to decide who you want to
be.
We have always said that wedidn't necessarily need to be
the largest, but we needed to bethe best, and the best for us
is in providing exceptionalcustomer service.
Anything that we do thatdiminishes the level of our
service in the interest ofgrowth is the wrong thing for us
(34:04):
to do.
Storie (34:04):
Wow, can you give me an example of that, because I can
see the passion in you, but anexample of one of the situations
that caused this thoughtprocess and methodology.
Rich (34:13):
Well, I think we just go back to interacting with AI as
opposed to interacting withpeople.
We insist that our people beinvolved in all communication
and I just I don't want to takethat away from our customers,
and certainly those who havebeen with us a long time would
(34:34):
be offended by it.
But I don't know that we wouldattract as many new long-term
customers by taking shortcutslike AI as we can, growing up
maybe a little bit more slowly,but on a very solid path, by
doing it the way we're doing it.
Storie (34:50):
Well understanding your buyer personas.
Right Understanding yourclientele is very important, and
if you just said that, a lot ofour clients wouldn't appreciate
that or the transition, I thinkthat's a big part of owning a
business is understanding notwhat you like or what you think
will work, but what your currentbuying personas are buying.
Rich (35:14):
Would you agree?
Well, a hundred percent.
And you have to know who youare and you have to know who
your market is.
We don't choose to be allthings to all people, but we
choose to be really, really goodwith the people.
That kind of fit the profile ofwho we're trying to sell to.
Storie (35:30):
Which is wonderful, so what what I know?
I've already asked that kind offit the profile of who we're
trying to sell to, which iswonderful, so what what I know?
I've already asked you kind ofwhat advice would you give to a
business owner immediately, butwhat is for other business
owners listening?
What's the very first stepyou'd recommend in creating a
better team of leadership?
Rich (35:52):
Well, I'd certainly want them to read my book.
Storie (35:54):
Obviously, I'm about to stop it and take a look at it
over there.
Rich (36:01):
I think the other thing I would say is read.
Start with why, Because I thinkyou have to know who you are
when we read the book together.
Start With why.
We saw ourselves in it, so weaccidentally happened into the
formula that they talk about.
(36:22):
We didn't have to changeanything, we just simply refined
our thinking a little bit.
But I don't think you can starta business today without having
a real clear sense of who youare and where you're going.
Storie (36:36):
That's wonderful advice.
Maybe I need to take a look atwho I am right, but for any
business owner small, large inbetween you have to reevaluate
yourself at periodic points.
All the time you have toreevaluate yourself at periodic
points All the time, would yousay more often than a leadership
staff member, would I mean youreally kind of got to step back,
(36:56):
at least once a year, once amonth, I would say and really
look at what you're doing.
Rich (37:02):
A business like ours is built on transactions.
Storie (37:12):
And I truly think you have to evaluate every
transaction.
Live by the walk-in, die by thewalk-in Is that kind of a
mentality that you've used inthe service industry?
Rich (37:20):
I'm not familiar with that .
Storie (37:21):
The live by the walk-in, die by the walk-in.
So you, if you only are showingyourself to the people that are
walking in the door, yourclients that are walking in the
door, you're not creating arelationship, right?
I mean you've got to have thatbrand awareness, that trust.
So to that point, would you say, brand awareness and marketing
is something that your companyhas always done throughout the
(37:44):
years and that's helped yourtrust.
Rich (37:46):
I think we have.
We talk a little bit aboutprice, but it's never foremost
in our advertising.
We're not a discounter, we're acompany that provides value and
we need our customers tounderstand that value is not
cheap.
We're not the most expensive,but we're very comfortable
staying above the midpoint onprice because it costs money to
(38:11):
provide value, and we have.
We've stayed true to that theentire time that I've been there
.
Storie (38:16):
Staying true to that vision and mission statement.
I think is where it is, because97% of businesses don't make it
past two years is what I.
The last stat I read You'vebeen in business for 40 years.
I read you've been in businessfor 40 years.
At what point over the hump?
Because over two years it'svery hard for businesses.
At what point do you reallyfeel like you've got it running?
(38:38):
At what year milestone did youfeel like you had it running
smooth?
Help us.
Rich (38:44):
Well, I've had that thought several times and then
lost it, interesting it.
Just, it never stops.
The innovation never stops, thecommitment to excellence never
stops.
The, the reevaluation of howevery interaction went, should
never stop.
And so you know, the the theeconomy changes, the government
(39:06):
makes, makes rules that changeyour industry.
So you know, you've never madeit, in my opinion.
Storie (39:12):
You've never made it if you don't kind of keep up with.
Rich (39:16):
You've never made it regardless.
I mean tomorrow.
You know we were rocking alongin pretty good shape until COVID
came.
And then, we lost 20% of ourbusiness that year.
So I don't know.
I don't know what's around thecorner.
I just know that if we staytrue to our mission, we have a
much better chance of survivalthan if we don't.
Storie (39:38):
Wow, well, I I would really love to have you back on
the show at a later date andmaybe we could start like a
series of episodes with you forthis thought leadership, because
podcasts are everything rightnow.
Right, and we want to.
We want to be diverse in theculture and the age range of
people we're talking to, becausesomeone like you I would have
loved to have had when I was 20.
So let me help you with thatmarketing aspect of it, and if
(39:58):
our viewers see all the valuethat I see in you, I would
really really highly suggest allof our viewers to go and buy
the book.
Where can they buy it?
Rich (40:09):
It's online at Amazon and Barnes Noble right now.
Storie (40:12):
Awesome, and is there any other way that they can
contact you for thoughtleadership, for coaching?
Speaking, how would they reachyou?
Rich (40:18):
The website for the book is growingyourownnet.
Okay, and my email is rich atgrowingyourownnet.
Storie (40:26):
And I will paste it in the bottom of the comments on
the episode once we post it.
But in the meantime, thank youso much for all the thoughts and
the encouragement from someonewho's actually been through and
walked through all the hurdlesof life.
It's very kind what you've doneWell thank you.
Rich (40:47):
It's a fun conversation to have.
I look forward to having youagain, awesome you've done.
Storie (40:50):
It's a fun conversation to have.
I look forward to having himagain.
Awesome To our listeners outthere.
If you know an entrepreneurwho's ready to really take hold
of their business, have them.
Give me a call and I'll connectyou with Rich.
And until next time, come seeus again on Marketing with Emma.
Thank you.
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