December 9, 2025 • 65 mins
We sit down with marketing director Ryan Shinn to unpack how mission-led strategy, targeted outreach, and humble leadership scaled enterprise roofing results while keeping a human touch. From AI to handwritten notes, we trace what still works and why it matters.
• Ryan’s path from retail to B2B marketing
• Reframing telemarketing into targeted outreach
• Mission, vision, and goal cadence that drives ownership
• $170m revenue attributed since 2016
• Positioning for enterprise buyers and single-source warranties
• National scale with local execution
• Delegation, hiring for complementary strengths
• Giving credit to unlock innovation
• AI as an accelerant, not a crutch
• Analog touchpoints that cut through spam fatigue
• COVID pivots, remote enablement, and supply foresight
• Legacy, mentorship, and relationship-centered leadership
Visit us at centimark.com. Contact Ryan at ryan.shin@centimark.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Today we have on the show Mr.
Ryan Shinn.
He is the marketing director forCinemark Western Group.
They are one of the largestcommercial and industrial
roofing companies, roofing andflooring contractors in North
America.
Welcome, Ryan.
How are you?
SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
I'm great.
How are you?
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Thank you for joining us today.
Happy to be here.
I'm so excited to actually justkind of talk with you about how
you came to be.
Did you, from a little boy, knewyou were coming into marketing
and you were going to be thiscommercial, just all in the mix
with the marketing and sales andthe digital aspect of the world?
SPEAKER_02 (01:01):
No.
So it started in col my basicresume, if you will.
Started in college.
Um and I was always involved inbusiness management.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (01:14):
Um I started uh at a low level just as an employee in
the beginning of college withSears, actually.
Wow.
I ended up through collegeworking in upper store and then
district management with them.
And I came to uh do severalbusiness management roles, but
(01:35):
um was always involved inmarketing uh for for different
companies and stuff, and it Ialways had a mind um towards
marketing, right?
Wow.
And so um so I've I've run somemarketing campaigns for some
larger companies and but I'vebeen with CentaMark for 13 years
now.
SPEAKER_00 (01:54):
So Centimark Western Group, correct?
Yeah.
Great.
So um how long have you beenwith them for how many years you
said?
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
Well, this January it will be 13 years.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Wow.
And uh and can you tell us moreabout what you do at Santa Mark
Western Group and and kind ofhow you've led your team in the
past few years?
SPEAKER_02 (02:14):
Absolutely.
So um uh in Santa Mark, we webuild roofs and floors for large
commercial industrial buildings,sometimes as small as a
Starbucks, for instance, butOkay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
As small as a Starbucks.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (02:30):
But we don't do houses.
It's not a residential roofingand flooring contract.
Um so I do everything fromleading telemarketing um to
organizations, um uh tradeshows.
Um Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
So um kind of give us a little breath of um what
you guys' initial focus was whenyou came into the company and
kind of how you've grown sincethen.
Can you tell us a little moreabout that?
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
Yeah, so initially back then, um, there was a big
focus on the telemarketing endof things.
SPEAKER_00 (03:06):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (03:06):
And the other groups in Santa Mark uh focus their
marketing or had focused anywayson that.
Um but when I was brought in, mymy group director, Steve, uh he
was very clear that he didn'twant someone just to solely
focus on the telemarketing endof things.
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (03:29):
He wanted someone with a more holistic approach.
And I've always tried to dothat.
I have a uh someone who uh who'sactually in charge of the the
telemarketing end of things, uhAliyah.
And we when you think when yousay telemarketing, you think of
like people at a phone making.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
I think it kind of makes everybody initially cringe
because there's been so much ofit, right?
But back then it wasn't asprominent as it's come to be, it
seems like.
SPEAKER_02 (03:57):
Yeah, and what we do for the most part, like most of
my staff, uh the stateside ispart of it anyways, um, doesn't
do like call people at theirdinner tables and ask if they
want to change long distanceservices if you want to park you
back to the 90s, right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
So with health phones, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:19):
The long curly cord.
No.
Um no, they're talking withtargeted uh contractors and our
national accounts programs, isthat is big, and we um we work
within that, um, but they're alltargeted companies and targeted
roles there.
And we're talking with facilitymanagers or or um uh operations
(04:44):
managers at their office andtheir desk, right?
Wow, okay.
So yeah, it's not like makinglots of phone calls.
SPEAKER_00 (04:51):
Right.
Maybe we just need to change thetitle of that department.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (04:55):
I I've always I've always wanted that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:57):
So you seem like kind of an innovator.
You you you like to coach andhelp produce whether it comes to
marketing or kind of anything ingeneral, right?
So tell us a little bit moreabout you're very driven.
You you said before previouslythat you're very mission-driven.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what your mission and
values are and how that leadsyou in?
SPEAKER_02 (05:19):
Absolutely.
So for work, I I think that'ssomething that's kind of missed
in a lot of I think companies asa whole get it, but um
interdepartmentally that it'seasily missed.
Um so for me, the mission isoverarching.
Like, why am I here?
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (05:41):
So um then the vision is how you're going to
accomplish the mission in a spurcertain time period, right?
From that programs develop andand each program has a goal, and
they have to business speak thesmart goals, right?
Right.
Um, so every year, like we haveour mission statement on the
wall along with our vision andour programs and our goals.
(06:05):
And every year, in actually wedo it in February in my
department, we have a big um daywhere we talk about how last
year performed and how we metour goals or didn't.
And then we talk about thevision for the upcoming year and
everything that drivesdownstream of that.
(06:25):
And my people really takeownership of their part of that,
and I highly reward that.
SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
Oh, that's wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (06:32):
It's a good time, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
Yeah, I feel like we a lot more industries and
companies are kind of cominginto that culture more, but what
what really made you want tofocus on those mission and
values?
Is was it your experience incorporate America?
You saw a lot of companies notfocusing on the company and the
culture, and and how did yourealign yourself to make sure
that you worked and and helped acompany like Cinemark?
SPEAKER_02 (06:57):
Well, um it it actually comes from my
experience uh in as as in faith.
Um and and my everything derivesyour values it's the foundation.
Uh but um I realize that like inany job, you have nine hours a
(07:19):
day that you spend with thesepeople.
And you can have that time bejust like cut and dried in in
your box business, like clockin, do your task, and then clock
out and go home.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (07:33):
Um, but that kind of sucks.
SPEAKER_00 (07:36):
I love the way you but the to be frank with
everyone, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:39):
Yeah, it it does, it does.
And and so I would rather havemy my team work passionately for
a goal, right?
And their goal can't be just inspace, it has to derive from the
mission, right?
And so um uh we have a missionand each team member uh owns
(08:05):
their slice of the pie there.
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
Interesting.
And and has that culture andthat impact that you brought
into your team has that helpedthe company as a whole youth
feel, in your opinion?
SPEAKER_02 (08:16):
Well, yeah.
Uh so I I looked at the numbersthe other day, actually.
And um so it's hard to measurewhat we've done before 2016
because we switched um to a CRMsystem and and that measures
everything since 2016.
Our old numbers aren't are aregone.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
I'm sure a lot of people had that transition issue
for CRM.
SPEAKER_02 (08:38):
Sure, absolutely.
Um so but tw since 2016, my teamhas created opportunities that
have resulted in$170 million inrevenue.
Now there's other things that wewe're we just lost in space,
like like um there's otherthings derived from that.
So it could be in multiples ofthat, but uh provable is$170
(09:02):
million, which is over$80,000per day worked for my team.
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
That is incredible.
SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
So uh yeah, I I can see that it did derive a lot of
value.
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
Right.
That is that is enormous, andand like I said, I think a lot
of companies are trying to shiftto that culture.
But for a lot of our viewers,they're business owners, small
business, large business, andit's hard on your level to to
trickle that down, it seemslike.
So what what drives you tocontinue to want to grow the
mission and the values withinyour team?
SPEAKER_02 (09:39):
So for me, it all comes down to people and
relationships, really.
Like I I love the industry I'min in that a business is in a
building.
And if like let's say there'sexpensive equipment in their
warehouse and the roof leaks,then their equipment can get
(10:00):
ruined.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (10:02):
And so they need a solution for that.
And that's what my company does,and does it very well, actually.
Um and uh downstream, there arepeople in my company who put
those roofs on or do thoserepairs.
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (10:20):
And they have children, and their children
need shoes, they need food, theythey need Christmas presents.
SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
Yes, I think they do.
SPEAKER_02 (10:29):
And there are salespeople whose jobs depend on
them meeting their goal.
And where I can't sell for them,I can help them to partner their
goals with business, with withmarketing strategies that meet
those business goals.
And so, and you know, keep goingdownstream to my my team
(10:51):
members.
They they have a job, they havechildren who need food too.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (10:56):
So um we're like I look at it as as helping those
relationships all along, fromthe customer to the salesperson
to the marketing team, likewe're all working for good.
SPEAKER_00 (11:11):
You're aligned, right?
So, and it seems like your teamresponds very well to to however
you're developing them.
Obviously, your success speaksfor itself.
So tell me more about um kind ofwhat what you've done to help.
You've done small Zarbucks,right?
And you all the way up to hugecorporations.
(11:31):
So, how do you tailor yourmarketing with such a wide
range?
How how do you do that in adirector of marketing role with
such a a large company?
SPEAKER_02 (11:41):
So, so well let me be clear on something.
I'm not saying that we have acorporate relationship with
Starbucks.
I'm just throwing that out therebecause everybody knows the size
of a Starbucks, but that size ofbuilding, right?
So um typically in thecommercial or industrial sphere,
(12:01):
um, a small building will bemanaged by a like a regional
facilities director who have aportfolio of buildings that they
manage.
And so typically we'll work withthem, but let's say there is a
small build a small company in abuilding owner and they need a
(12:25):
solution, um, we can do that.
Now we are positioned as acompany.
I I tell customers sometimeswe're not like a Chevy Malibu,
we're more like a BMW 5 series.
Like we focus on our quality andour our ubiquity more than
(12:47):
anything else.
SPEAKER_00 (12:48):
That's the front focus of the the company.
SPEAKER_02 (12:51):
So so as a solution for a cash strapped small
business, we're not necessarilythe the best solution for them.
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
Right.
You need to know yourdemographic, right?
Um you you're specific withinthe larger commercial space, you
said?
SPEAKER_02 (13:11):
Yeah.
And uh so you asked earlierabout like uh like advice to
other entrepreneurs in that.
Absolutely.
But I would say first we weretalking about the the um the the
family atmosphere and themission driven, right?
As a as a any company shouldreally focus on what their
(13:31):
mission is and how they'recreating that alignment between
their customer and their theirsolution, right?
If if if they're for instance,if they provide if they're a
plumber, right?
They they don't want to work,they don't want to convince a
homeowner that they needplumbing work because that's not
(13:52):
fun.
And a customer doesn't justdon't wake up in the morning and
go, I want to get a plumber in.
SPEAKER_00 (13:58):
Yeah, I want to fix my toilet today or my training.
SPEAKER_02 (14:01):
So they they need to figure out that alignment.
And that might be easy in thecase of a plumber.
You're a plumber, you need youneed to align with people who
need plumbing, right?
Um so but the the next step thatwe were getting at was the the
customer value proposition.
Yes.
Why you?
Um what what separates you?
(14:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Why should a customer chooseyou?
And um uh unfortunately, a smallbusiness sometimes has a feeling
of desperation, like we justneed c more clients, right?
And so they tend to forget thatbecause they're they're just
(14:44):
scraping and trying to survive.
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
Right.
I'm taking one step at a timeevery day, right?
SPEAKER_02 (14:48):
I think that's uh that's a trap that people fall
into easily.
Um that they they need to stayfocused on their target targeted
market.
They they need they needcustomers who value the value
that they bring.
And they they need to keep thataligned.
SPEAKER_00 (15:11):
Absolutely.
But um, if they don't keep thatin line, I feel like uh uh like
you to your point, a lot ofbusiness owners are running in
circles.
You get caught in that kind ofroute race.
So how do you do you feel likedelegation to your team um and
trust with your team is is ahigh focus for you?
SPEAKER_02 (15:28):
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Uh so I am not a micromanager.
I like uh that that hurts me.
If I if I'm I I tell new peopleand uh like when I bring them
in, if I'm standing over yourshoulder and micromanaging you,
that's a big sign that you needto listen because I'm gonna get
(15:48):
tired of that really fast.
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
Right.
You have enough to think about,right?
That's why you put certainpeople in place.
Right, right.
So how do you go about findingthose um specific personalities?
SPEAKER_02 (16:02):
So I would say that, well, first of all, it it it
starts with me and me knowing mystrengths and weaknesses, right?
I know that I'm I often say I'mmore of a forest person.
I like to look at the map andand chart out the course forward
and look at where we aregenerally, but I don't want to
(16:23):
focus on individual trees.
And I one can either get betterat that if that's necessary, or
bring in people who are reallygood at that.
And I am very fortunate to havethe best employee that I've ever
had.
SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
Wow, Leah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:42):
And she's sh she'll say like she likes to look at
the trees, and she's really goodat that.
Uh-huh.
And so um I can pass off kind ofthat detailed stuff to her, and
she can handle that with a plum.
And um and we together, beingthat we have different folk folk
(17:03):
eye, naturally, right?
Yeah, we can bring on peoplethat that fit that role and just
knowing the the culture of asuccessful or the the cultural
mix of a successful person inthat role.
Um, but that is difficult.
So uh like I I have a whole listin my head of people I've I've
(17:24):
brought in that just haven'tfit.
SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
Right, right.
But Aaliyah, she she has beenwith you almost since you've
been with Cinemark, hasn't she?
SPEAKER_02 (17:32):
More than that.
Actually, she's the only personon our staff that I didn't hire.
She pre-exists me.
She just had her 15-yearanniversary.
SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
Congratulations, Aaliyah.
Great shout-out on that.
So you really are proud of theteam that you've kind of put
together and what you do eachand every day.
So I want to circle back to alittle bit.
We kind of brushed over it.
What does separate Santa Markfrom the rest?
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
Well, to do the elevator pitch of it.
Right.
So Santa Mark, first of all, um,generally a roofing contractor
in North America is going to thelet's say they give a 20-year
warranty on a roof, right?
That's typically between one andthree years installation.
(18:19):
The rest of the warranty is theyou have to go to the
manufacturer of the product.
Okay, okay.
Santa Mark, if we give a 20-yearwarranty, it's a single sourced
warranty.
So if it leaks in year 19, callus.
SPEAKER_01 (18:34):
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_02 (18:35):
And we will not send you back to Versico or GAF or
whoever.
Um, we'll handle it ourselves.
We have a completely separatedivision that handles that that
warranty service.
SPEAKER_00 (18:47):
Wow.
So it's more a white gloveservice, very, very specific to
each and every customer, itseems like.
SPEAKER_02 (18:52):
So that's one thing.
The other thing is our size,right?
So we're we're all across NorthAmerica in Canada.
Um we have over, I think we'reat 110 ish offices in North
America right now.
My goodness.
And they're not franchises.
Um, we don't buy up smallercompanies.
(19:15):
Um, it's all organic growth.
And they're all fully trained uhSanta Mark employees and with
with crews in the differentoffices.
Um so we're not gonna flysomebody out from Florida to
look at your your roof in adifferent market, right?
You have you get the best ofboth worlds.
You get the local team who livesand works and raises their kids
(19:39):
right there in the community.
Um, and you also get the sizeand and scope of a giant
corporation.
SPEAKER_00 (19:48):
Wow, the quality of that that big corporation.
SPEAKER_02 (19:51):
So generally in North America, a a roofer is
what I call two chucks and atruck, right?
Um they've got a ladder.
They have some rolls of ofthermal plastic polyolefin TPO.
And so they're probably gonna beout of business in two years.
(20:11):
I mean, statistically.
And so they they like thatdominates the North American
market, believe it or not.
Really?
Yeah.
And so um so we're we we werefounded in 1968.
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_00 (20:29):
So the company as a whole has been here for quite a
while.
SPEAKER_02 (20:31):
Yeah, and so if we give a like if if it's two
chucks and a truck roofing andthey give you a 20-year
warranty, if they're not aroundin 20 years, it it doesn't
matter anyways, right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:41):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
So a customer will know that we're gonna be around
in 20 years.
And also a customer that has uman outlet in Michigan and
Florida and California has onecompany they can call with an
office near all of those places.
SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
Well, so you guys make sure to embed yourselves in
each and every community thatyou're involved with.
SPEAKER_02 (21:03):
Yeah, well, so I can't say that we have an office
in every community at all.
Right.
But we have an office near everycommunity.
Absolutely.
So within reach.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
Do you feel that's very important for you and your
company?
You guys have what, two, threeoffices in each state generally?
SPEAKER_02 (21:24):
I I won't say a number because it doesn't work
in that way, right?
You've got certain states thathave vast tracts of land and not
a lot of people, and you haveother states that have a lot of
people and not as much emptyspace.
Like so in here in Texas, wehave our uh just on the roofing
(21:47):
side, we have our our DFWoffice, we have uh an office in
San Antonio, we have a an officein Houston, uh, and we have an
office in El Paso.
SPEAKER_00 (21:59):
Wow, and your home base is here in Texas, correct?
SPEAKER_02 (22:02):
No, our our company headquarters is actually in uh
it's near Pittsburgh,Pennsylvania.
SPEAKER_00 (22:08):
Okay, I got you.
But you you are focused on thismarket, but your market is a lot
larger than Texas, right?
SPEAKER_02 (22:15):
Yeah.
Maybe you focus on the Mepersonally, I'm in the Western
group.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (22:19):
And and basically to make it really simple, if you
folded the US map in half,everything to the left of that
is the West.
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
See, that is a very, very large area for the
companies that are kind of onthat build launch growth scale
methodology is how we think,that are on that launch and
scale phase that are growinglike you are, and having to
manage so many different areas.
Your company has also obviouslydone it very well.
Your group, your Western grouphas.
So what system do you feel likeyou put in place to make that
(22:52):
successful?
And how do you manage thosesystems across such a wide
range?
SPEAKER_02 (22:58):
Sure.
Well, internally, um, I look atmy goal it is really meeting
with on the phone or on theinternet or even in person,
meeting with all the the salesstaff through that entire
territory and and helping themto meet their business goals by
(23:20):
implementing sound marketingstrategies.
I I was listening recently to uhthere's a marketing guru out of
the UK, his name is RorySutherland, and he was answering
marketing questions from theinternet on this video.
And he said the he said thebiggest misconception in
marketing is that marketing is acost.
(23:42):
It's not.
Marketing is a way of avoidingan opportunity cost.
SPEAKER_00 (23:48):
What's an opportunity cost in your
definition?
SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
So look at it this way.
If you're let let's let's let'stake away Centimark out of the
equation.
Let's say you're a small uhsingle person plumbing outfit.
unknown (24:00):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (24:02):
And you'll do fifty thousand dollars in revenue this
year.
SPEAKER_00 (24:09):
Okay, very small.
SPEAKER_02 (24:10):
Yeah.
But if you used sound marketingprinciples, maybe you would be
able to clear$100,000 inrevenue.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (24:23):
As long as you've spent then less than$50,000 on
those sound marketing uh uhprocesses, then you've actually
uh you've made money in thegame, right?
So um I would not suggest forfor them to invest, like don't
(24:44):
don't throw money into the wind,right?
But use sound marketingprinciples.
And and back to Santa Mark,that's what I what what my role
is in working with the the salesstaff across the West to
implement sound marketingprinciples so that they can meet
their own business goals.
SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
Right.
You you actually mentioned thatyou encourage your team to you
know do a to take over, to takeownership, right?
So you encourage your team toTO, which is take ownership, you
mentioned.
How do you create a culturewhere people feel safe to take
risks underneath you?
SPEAKER_02 (25:22):
So, first of all, you have to reward that.
Um you you have to look for thatbehavior and it's it not to say
my team members are dogs becausethey're not, but if your dog is
if you're teaching your dog tosit, you have to reward them
doing it correctly, right?
(25:42):
Right, not punish them, right?
Yeah.
And so the and and you have toyou have to be intentional about
that, right?
So that's kind of step one.
And and my my people are gonnaget mad that I compared them to
dogs and I'm I'm clearly.
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
Or not, just on a kind of a lizard brain holistic.
SPEAKER_02 (26:00):
Yeah, but but second of all, um I in my head, um I
don't want to hire somebody whojust sits and stares at their
screen because I didn't tellthem specifically what to do.
So sometimes I'll have anemployee who says, Well, I just
(26:22):
thought that this would be agood idea.
And maybe sometimes I'm like,Well, I don't know if I would
have done that.
But I'm still happy that you didsomething.
SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
Right, kind of w walked out of the box a little
bit.
SPEAKER_02 (26:35):
Yeah.
And so um they they know that Ivalue that.
I also have like stupidincentives, like I'll all I have
these red chips that we giveout, and they they can at the
end of the month they can usethat for they can they can win
some prizes, right?
Right.
So I just kind of I do that too.
SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
Breaks up the monotony of coming to work for
nine hours every day.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (27:00):
And I don't want to do too much that's stupid that
belittles them um because nobodywants to be treated like that.
So I I really believe stronglyin uh treating people like
adults and expecting them to actthat way.
SPEAKER_00 (27:15):
Right.
You even kind of mentioned youhonestly get a little upset when
they don't try, right?
SPEAKER_02 (27:21):
Yeah, that that that that hurts the whole team, is
what it does.
It's it's like the the risingtide raises all ships, right?
I love that.
At the same time, a team memberwho's not pulling their weight
makes everybody else work harderand in not the direction they
they want to go.
They have to veer off to make upfor that.
(27:41):
Like think of a a team of horsesand one horse is lagging, and so
it's pulling the the horsesmaybe to the left.
So the other horses have to walka little bit to the right to
keep that momentum going, and itworks that way in business too.
If you've got some side notpulling its weight, then it it
kind of hurts downstreameverybody.
SPEAKER_00 (28:02):
So absolutely.
So uh you you actually kind ofmentioned to within that realm
of what we're already talkingabout, that insecure leaders
steal credit.
Can you expand on that?
You want your people to outshineyou, you mentioned.
Why is that and how how doesthat belief shape kind of
leadership and legacy for you?
(28:22):
So um insecure leaders stealcredit.
SPEAKER_02 (28:26):
Yeah.
So for uh we we have a big salesmeeting.
Um last year it was in inPhoenix.
Okay.
And um I I do a contest eachyear, the best marketer.
We have a series of metrics thatthat measures them.
The best marketer gets to go tothat trip along with me and and
(28:47):
all the sales staff in in theWest.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (28:50):
Um and last year it was one of my employees,
Kimberly.
Oh, and she comes up and theygive her an award, and the whole
sales staff gives her a standingovation.
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (29:03):
And I just I love that.
And like that's my team member.
And she has uh done her best totake ownership and and and
create success, right?
Right.
And uh it's not about me, right?
Uh of course I lead the team,but their success is my success.
(29:27):
And um I I think an insecureperson it really stems from
insecurity.
Like people want to bevalidated, and there's a big um
that that um that sense of ofnot measuring up that uh
insecurity.
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
What what's the it it uh you've developed the
insecurity with because of it'salmost of an inferiority
complex.
You don't want to be seeninferior.
SPEAKER_02 (29:54):
So everybody has that sense of like if everybody
actually knew how unqualified Iwas, they would all laugh at me,
right?
I tend to not have that.
I I tend to veer toward thepolar opposite.
I'm like overconfident and I'mI'm like ready, fire, aim,
(30:14):
right.
SPEAKER_00 (30:15):
So you recognize that distinction between the
two.
SPEAKER_02 (30:17):
Yeah, yeah.
So um that so uh a leader whosteals credit um often has that
in the back of their mind.
They're like, well, that's agreat idea.
So my boss is gonna say, that'sa great idea.
Why didn't you think of that?
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
So they have to take on so they take it on, right?
SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
But the the real problem is all their people are
like, if I come up with a goodidea and I share it, then he's
gonna say it's his.
Oh yeah.
That's that's endemic acrossmany organizations, right?
SPEAKER_03 (30:56):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
I think that's a um a dead end road though, because
what happens is you stifleinnovation.
Um you kill that sense of takingownership.
Um because uh if you're doingthe opposite, you've got the
strength of your entire teamcoming up with ideas.
(31:18):
And you can give success whereit's due, and then they'll want
to come up with more ideas.
SPEAKER_00 (31:25):
And what's the counter to that?
I I I truly believe that well, II know for a fact,
statistically, 97% of businessesdon't make it past the first
five years.
Would you say that mentality hasa lot to do with maybe why 97%
of businesses don't make it?
SPEAKER_02 (31:43):
I I think it's it's definitely part of it.
Uh I think that that statistic,um, you're gonna have a lot of
businesses start with a soleproprietorship or a few staff,
right?
And so that that falls less intoless of that category because
(32:06):
they're not enough people tomake a team, right?
Right.
Um as you're as you uh grow thatthat comes into play more and
more.
Okay, go ahead.
And so you have to start outthough with that that mindset of
of taking ownership, and I wouldsay for a smaller outfit,
(32:30):
networking and giving I I Ithink for for that size, people
mess up the idea of networking.
And I see that in marketing somuch, but I think it's it's it's
swinging the other way.
SPEAKER_00 (32:45):
The pendulum's swinging.
So let me touch on that becauseI think you kind of skimmed over
something I want I want peopleto really hear from you.
The very first part of what yousaid, um what you just
mentioned, can you kind ofelaborate on that and the sense
that Okay, you mentioned thatleaders kind of struggle with
(33:05):
letting go of control andtrusting their teams.
What advice would you giveleaders or entrepreneurs that
are just starting out, or maybein the middle of their build
phase, right?
Because we have the build launchgrow scale methodology.
When you're in that build phase,what advice would you give
leaders who do struggle withcontrol, who who do you do see
(33:27):
kind of on that path ofdestruction with their teams?
What advice would you give tohelp them?
SPEAKER_02 (33:34):
So in the build phase, um, first of all, I would
go back to mission and visionand goals.
You have to have that clearlyset.
Uh yeah.
Look at networking, becausethat's that's gonna be your
team, right?
You want outside people to workfor your your vision and and
your mission.
Absolutely.
(33:55):
But that means that you need towork for their mission and their
vision, and then they're goingto want to mute help you because
you're mutually helping eachother as well.
SPEAKER_00 (34:07):
Absolutely, mutually beneficial.
SPEAKER_02 (34:08):
Yeah.
So uh I was in um Idaho.
No, I was in Spokane, and um uha salesperson from uh Boise was
with me.
That's the Idaho connection.
SPEAKER_00 (34:22):
Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:23):
A potential customer walked up.
Okay, and uh they started aconversation.
And the customer was like, Well,I don't have any commercial
roofing needs right now.
But as they talked, he said,What I really need is a I don't
remember, but let's say plumber.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Like I've got plumbing issues, something that
your company did not manage atthe time, right?
SPEAKER_02 (34:50):
And the salesperson went, you know, I know this guy,
he's not with our company atall, but he's just a client of
mine and he's a really goodplumber.
I trust him.
Let me give you his number.
And he did that, and the thepotential customer like wrote it
down and walked away.
(35:11):
And in my head, I'm I'm like,wow, that was that was really
good networking there.
Because what's gonna happen isthat guy's gonna get his
plumbing situation fixed.
But someday he's gonna need aroof, and he's gonna remember
the guy who gave him thatplumber's information, even
(35:32):
though he wasn't gettingbusiness out of it.
There was no benefit, right?
And the plumber, right.
Well, there there is, but theit's in in building community
and building those those thosespiderweb connections, right?
The plumber is gonna be like,wow, you sent me a client, and
(35:53):
he's gonna remember when heneeds roofing work that as well,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (35:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (35:59):
You you took the opportunity to to be a resource
with yeah, but not only that,but both of them are gonna tell
them their friends about the guythat helps them and you they're
gonna need roofing.
SPEAKER_00 (36:12):
Right, from people they know, like, and trust,
right?
Right.
I will definitely go withsomebody that my friend that I
trust has referred me to.
I would say that's 97% of mybusiness is the relationship.
I I can't stand the word salesor even marketing now anymore.
Because if you truly value acustomer and they value what you
(36:33):
have to offer, you're creating arelationship.
Would you agree?
SPEAKER_02 (36:36):
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And uh so we were talking aboutthe pendulum swing.
Like it it has been so so uhback to telemarketing, right?
What ruined that industry is allof the incessant robocalls.
I don't know about you, but Idon't answer my phone anymore if
I don't recognize.
SPEAKER_00 (36:55):
You actually called me this morning and I didn't
have you saved, and I did notanswer that number.
SPEAKER_02 (37:00):
I was offering a Starbucks, which is not working.
SPEAKER_00 (37:04):
Is that insane that our culture is like that now?
SPEAKER_02 (37:07):
So, but but the same thing has happened with I I I
don't know about you on thisalso, but I get constant emails
in my inbox.
Do you have a quick 15 minutesfor me to tell you about the
thing I want to sell you?
And the answer is no, because Ihave a job to do, right?
Exactly.
Um but it like the pendulum hasswung or is swinging back,
(37:30):
maybe, in a lot of businessesrealizing that they can't do
business that way.
They the way to get intosomebody's inbox is to offer
them value.
And then they will respondnicely and earn your right to
talk about that thing you wantto sell to them.
SPEAKER_00 (37:53):
Right.
Kind of our interaction.
Um, we interacted throughLinkedIn, right?
My CEO and I are both onLinkedIn, kind of reaching out
to our business owners that wereally feel can add value to our
show, right?
You I was solving not a problem,but a need that you feel like
would benefit you at the end ofthe day, right?
It's kind of touching on whatyou just said is you have to
(38:16):
either solve a problem orbenefit because you get so many
emails every day.
So how how has that migrationwith being in marketing and
sales, by the way?
Two different things I wouldlike to make very clear for some
of our business owners, very,very different.
In your experience through yourmarketing director position here
at Cinemark, as AI tends to kindof come into play.
(38:39):
We used to do telemarketing,right?
And then everybody gets sick ofthe robocalls at dinner, like
you mentioned.
And now AI is coming into play,which is why we have all the
emails coming into our inbox.
How do you keep up with thetimes when it comes to
marketing?
How do you know how to maneuverout of telemarketing and into
automation?
SPEAKER_02 (38:57):
Yeah, so and like the a lot is being said about
AI, right?
And you've got your people whoare on the end of like it's
gonna solve all of our problems.
We're gonna be in some Star Trekutopia where nobody has to work
ever.
Right.
And then there's the other side,people like I'm a Luddite, I
(39:18):
don't don't want AI is gonnakill us all, we're gonna end up
in Terminator Land.
SPEAKER_00 (39:24):
And what's your opinion?
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
I'm uh I like to say I'm agnostic about it.
I don't like my opinion is notgonna affect whether AI happens
or not.
I'm not Elon Musk or one ofthose thought leaders on the
subject, right?
What I do know is that AI is.
It's here.
(39:47):
My success as a marketer will bedetermined in the near future,
even by my ability to navigateand use this tool to the best of
my abilities.
So to your audience um and andlike a a s uh a uh uh what'd you
(40:10):
say the um build build in thebuilding build launch ground
launch ground so and the buildlaunch and even grow and scale
actually all of it um phase ifyou're a small business you can
use ai tools uh to achievethings that uh a year ago five
(40:32):
years ago wasn't even possiblewithin the year yeah took you a
whole 12 months to completeright right so like like I'm a
I'm a Photoshop guy I've wellyears back I won Photoshop
contests and like I was reallyinto it but yeah back then like
well uh now Photoshop has an AIfeature is one of the first to
(40:55):
do like AI image generationthings in Photoshop so I I
played around with it and umbecause I not to have fun
although I it was fun youenjoyed it to figure out yeah to
figure out what it would do umas a tool and I produced a few
(41:16):
things and I was talking uh atwork actually um with with
somebody on my team and I saidyou know this is doing better
what used to take me a week todo on my own in Photoshop and AI
is like that across the board umso now I'm where it definitely
(41:43):
will be detrimental is it willdo to our inboxes it already has
done to our inboxes what therobocalls did to our cell
phones.
Yep.
So uh effective communication isgonna be more um human yeah yeah
more yeah like like sitting infront of people.
(42:05):
Absolutely more uh analog andless digital if you will uh the
the personal one-non oneinteraction yeah I'm not I'm not
actually saying don't usedigital means I'm saying that
that like the what what analogis to digital the the you know
fire quick gen generic email isto a personal email with with
(42:28):
real connection really sittingin front of somebody etc like
like um you know how when youopen letters in the from the
mail like a lot of places areusing that that handwriting font
yes and you kind of run yourfingers over it to feel if it's
actual writing you can tell yeahbut if you actually get a
handwritten letter you payattention to that more which is
(42:52):
why they're using that fontright so how do you integrate
that into your processes atCinemark with your team when AI
are you utilizing it within yourcompany for that marketing and
that advertising or do you feellike you kind of produce more
quality interactions and that'swhy you've grown as well.
(43:14):
So so I can't it's kind ofproprietary how we're using AI
but we are um however um a goodexample in a conversation I was
having just this week and lastweek uh we we have developed a a
specific uh marketing role inthe the regional offices in
(43:38):
person and they're actuallysending off snail mail
introductory packets and we'recalling behind that just to set
up sit down right those touchpoints right and that's actually
having a a real effect and I'venoticed when we deliver hand
deliver a just an introductorypacket if there's like a little
(44:03):
handwritten note on the frontcover it gets a lot more play
than just you know something Ihave a an option for them to put
in a company logo of the companythat they're delivering to and
I'm like I I don't personallyadvocate doing that because they
know what company they're withit's not impressive.
SPEAKER_00 (44:24):
Right it's that what is impressive is is the
handwriting yeah yes puttingthat I I think to your point
people are valuing that with AIand our emails just blowing up
if I get a letter or a thank youcard even that's handwritten, I
will place it on my wall becauseI know that person took that
extra step, that quality andtook the extra focus in me and
(44:45):
that does create value.
So now I wonder how and and Iask different business owners
this and different C-suiteexecutives like yourself how how
it's affected you.
Are we using it as a crutch orare we using it as a benefit to
our company as a whole?
Because I feel like some smallbusiness owners maybe use it as
a way to educate themselvesversus utilizing their process
(45:09):
with the AI to help growthemselves.
SPEAKER_02 (45:12):
Would what's your so you can and should use AI tools
for marketing number one.
Okay.
The more boilerplate the themore spammy the the worse um
that that personal interactionis is always very key but don't
(45:34):
miss the fact that there aregreat amazing tools to get you
in front of the customer.
What a a good example of thatthat uh in conversations that
I've had I'll have people saywell we want to appear really
high on a Google search resultright yeah those are my favorite
and yeah where are we on Google?
SPEAKER_00 (45:55):
Yes that's the first question but it is important.
SPEAKER_02 (45:58):
But yeah but so um the the Google result might be
how they find you to have thatconversation in the first place
and if they don't find you it'slike the old like AAA plumbing
because they want it to appearearly alphabetical order yellow
pages, right?
So yeah so um and of course itdoesn't work that way anymore.
(46:22):
But um so if you see an AAAplumber you know they've been
around a long time or they'rereally really behind the curve.
SPEAKER_00 (46:28):
Which can add a little credit guys.
SPEAKER_02 (46:30):
So um but um I I will say you you can't have that
personal interaction that analoginteraction if you will unless
they find you in the first placeand AI is a great tool to get
you visible.
SPEAKER_00 (46:49):
Right and then to deliver what you have.
Yeah it's kind of that bridge umwith the cold calling and the
telemarketing you're really thebrand awareness letting them
know that you're there havingthat personal interaction is
really where you grow yeah inyour opinion.
SPEAKER_02 (47:04):
Yeah it is it is uh now now I would say so um our
cold calling we actually do coldcall telemarketing have done
cold call telemarketing out ofthe Philippines and I I just
that that recently um my in-yearrevenue uh that I measured from
(47:26):
that still reached a milliondollars so that's not dead it's
not but if you're spending andand by the way for anybody who's
asking that was a bolt on itwasn't like firing people
stateside to to to outsourcethat it it didn't work that way.
I wouldn't have done that.
So um but like if you're payinga lot of money you're throwing
(47:53):
money into the wind.
That's why I'm not hiringstateside people to do that
work.
SPEAKER_00 (47:58):
I kind of can't anyways like that really dried
up um it's kind of a casualty ofthe post-COVID world really
right because yeah you automateand you really get more
comfortable with being able tohandle things and processes more
more analog.
SPEAKER_02 (48:14):
Yeah well yeah and and like what the response to
COVID really like messed up theworking world a lot.
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
You know uh of all the guests that I've interviewed
that either are small businessowners or have been in business
for 30 years plus and are arehuge executives.
So I feel like COVID eitherbenefited or hurt businesses,
right?
So I've see a lot of smallbusiness entrepreneurs who
really were able to developthemselves out of being forced
(48:44):
to to go through the COVIDepidemic.
And then some that really reallystruggled because they were not
on the forefront of the digitalautomation.
That's I feel like it's pushedmore marketing has pushed more
digital because of COVID whichcan be good and bad.
How do you think it's affectingthe large like businesses like
yours a commercial focusing oncommercial industries how did
(49:05):
COVID affect U.S.
SPEAKER_02 (49:07):
Cinemark sure so um it required us to do a whole lot
of interactions that were notface to face right like drones
and drone scans and uh thingslike that satellite scans became
much more in use uh during COVIDalso everybody wanted like in
(49:30):
the roofing industry people payattention to safety a lot
because it's a really dangerousindustry actually and there can
be big lawsuits.
However there was an add-onduring the COVID age of like we
don't just want you to be safewe want you to be uh disease
(49:51):
safe right and but to kind ofmake the jump from and and it
was it was like we did well overthe the COVID years and there
were kind of ancillary issues umthat COVID COVID caused like the
supply chain problem of courseof course in your industry we as
(50:14):
a company managed that reallywell and it com uh at the same
time not necessarily because ofCOVID but um the you know we saw
rampant inflation happening allacross the board um but
definitely in our industry umand we we managed that really
well too I would say one of thethings that we talked about that
(50:38):
kind of has to do with thisissue um the other day we had a
conversation and and we talkedabout obstacles right so COVID
was just like AI is there'snothing I could do about COVID
there's nothing I can do aboutAI.
It does not care about myopinion of how it's gonna work
out.
SPEAKER_00 (50:57):
That's right and COVID didn't either which is a
huge shock to everyone yeah andit's an obstacle yes how but
nobody cares about our obstaclesthey care about how we were
either we failed to overcome ourobstacles and it becomes then a
(51:17):
a morality play a lesson or theycare about how we overcame that
obstacle so sometimes you haveto use a really creative
solution sometimes it's justmuscling up and powering through
what was your process youobviously did well through the
pandemic so what do you thinkattributed to that success or s
(51:40):
sustainability through thatperiod?
SPEAKER_02 (51:42):
So are are you asking the question about Santa
Mark for my role at Centimark?
SPEAKER_00 (51:48):
Your role at Centimark completely whether you
were proactive whether youpivoted um quickly or whether or
not because of the the intentionthat you had initially with your
team and the culture if thatreally helped you power so the
whole start of COVID was reallyweird for me because I was in a
trade show in Hawaii when theworldwide lockdown really
(52:11):
started.
SPEAKER_02 (52:12):
Wow and so I flew back and it it was it was just
surreal because I I flew like uhLas Vegas is the number one
destination out of Honolulu.
And um so on my plane flyingback to to Vegas uh from Hawaii
um there were I think there werelike three people on my flight
(52:35):
and I got into Vegas and thebaggage claims weren't working
it was a ghost town.
SPEAKER_00 (52:41):
Oh I bet that was creepy.
SPEAKER_02 (52:42):
And when I got back to DFW um I had one day to make
because Texas was locking downthe next day.
Quickly yes and I had one day toto make everybody able to work
(53:03):
from home who never had like Inever had work from home.
SPEAKER_00 (53:06):
Everyone in IT at every company was screaming.
SPEAKER_02 (53:09):
And and so but we did so well we made we made
actual bound manuals for mystaff we the the cables were
marked like a each end of eachcable was marked with a
different letter or number andit corresponded to the diagrams
on the manual.
We worked really hard becausebecause the leadership staff of
(53:34):
my department like myself andAliyah at the time we said
nothing else exists today.
This is the only thing we'regonna do.
And so and we boxed them all upwith employees names on each box
right and it worked so well.
We had to manage like there wasno time clock anymore because
(53:55):
people were working from home.
But the point was because it's afun story to tell how we
overcame that challenge and II'm very proud to say that in
the heart of COVID where we wereall working from home I didn't
have a single I didn't lose asingle employee and I didn't
have a single employee who leftSanta Mark.
(54:17):
That is very impressive and keptworking.
SPEAKER_00 (54:20):
As a company as a whole and as you as a leader
within your company it says alot about the quality and care
that you have internally and forthe the client the clientele so
through COVID with commercialreal estate and commercial real
estate contracting and theshipment issues you guys
sustained all of that as thecompany as a whole so when
(54:42):
coming out of that what did youlearn as a marketing director
coming out of that pivot changefire drill?
What did you learn?
SPEAKER_02 (54:49):
So what we were talking about about overcoming
challenges I really becamefocused on that like um so COVID
was a big challenge right my jobwas not to say woe is me and
rock back and forth in a fetalposition my job was to make wins
happen happen in spite of and itwas a hard time like talk like
(55:15):
all my staff like there wasthere was no talking to facility
managers at their officesbecause the facility manager
wasn't working in an officeanymore right it's the fear of
the unknown.
Yeah so and and everybody's kindof scrambling like you
eventually had people saying thenew normal right yep and because
(55:36):
it was but there wasn't a newnormal yet it was it was just
stay afloat and like manage.
But so that's a lesson that Idid as a company I think one of
our big lessons that we learnedbut we did well was to try and
think ahead of the problem.
(55:58):
So when I I personally wascontract contacted by other
roofers that I knew just in mypersonal life who were saying do
you guys have material because Ican't get material and I
couldn't answer that question.
I I I don't work in operations.
Right.
But we did we had wholewarehouses that we had
(56:19):
pre-staged so weathered thatmaterial shortage storm and and
we got certain roofing jobs justbecause other people couldn't do
it.
SPEAKER_00 (56:32):
Right they couldn't supply the material to do it.
SPEAKER_02 (56:34):
So you sourced to those smaller yeah so I I I'm A
I'm really proud of themarketing department and and my
staff just being reallyresilient and overcoming our
challenges and being willing tochange what the message is kind
(56:55):
of in the midst of it.
I'm proud of our company indoing the same and and really
there's really smart people whothought ahead of of problems and
of of obstacles of challengesand and planned accordingly and
so you have to get s reallysmart in times like that.
SPEAKER_00 (57:18):
I can just feel the pride exuding from you when you
talk about how that worked as acompany as a whole it's great
that your company aligns withyour values it's very important
especially now that we're moreaware of our emotions and
feelings and the C-suiteexecutives are as well.
So tell me about your greatesthope.
You mentioned what your greatesthope and can you tell our other
business owners what your hopeis and what your insight is on
(57:42):
relationship, mentorship and andwhat shapes your mission and
vision, your hope.
SPEAKER_02 (57:49):
So personally um like I it's not driven from a
fear it's actually driven fromthe opposite but like someday
I'm I heard a comedian talkabout like if you're looking at
a gravestone you have the dateof birth and the date of death
and you live your entire life inthe dash between them.
(58:13):
And so and it sounds morbidright but if as you think about
it it's it's actually reallypoignant.
Like we're all gonna die.
We're flesh and I I I don't haveany allusions to that no nor
morbidity about it.
(58:34):
It just is what it is.
Right.
And so but I want to createthings that will leave a legacy
beyond the dash.
SPEAKER_00 (58:44):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (58:45):
And I want the world to be a better place because I
was in it.
SPEAKER_00 (58:50):
Do you think you're accomplishing that goal?
SPEAKER_02 (58:53):
That that drives me every day drives everything I
do.
I think that um there are thingsthat I have invested my life in
that will have eternal resultsand I really live my life with
that passion with that ethos umand I'm uh from a work
perspective I'm really proud ofthe people that I have invested
(59:15):
in because that that team youknow someday after me their
children are going to have beenaffected by not just the the job
but how I spoke into theirlives.
I have a kind of a joke that Isay that I so in my office I
have a little table a like alittle conference table in my
(59:38):
personal office and every singleemployee including myself have
cried to that table at somepoint not because I was
screaming at them or or sayingmean things it's because they've
uh sat there and said you knowI'm just really dealing with
(59:59):
this In my life right now.
You touch them on a deeperlevel.
Because they know they have thespace to do that.
That I'm I'm not the counselorin chief, but they know that I
care for them as people, notjust functionaries.
And so that is part of thatleaving a legacy, right?
(01:00:22):
And also the the sales staff atmy company know that I'm not
just in it for um being theirsales goal, that I really want
them to succeed in their role.
So last year, for instance, I Ihad a black belt test in in uh
(01:00:47):
martial art that I practice.
And um uh one of my sales stafffrom Houston came up and he sat
and watched that and cheered meon for nine and a half hours.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:02):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:04):
That like I was talking to him yesterday
actually, and I would say, like,someday when I'm on my deathbed,
I will remember that as like oneof the top ten, because he
didn't have to do that.
There's no benefit to him.
He's not gonna get more sales,more marketing time out of me.
He did that because he caredabout me.
(01:01:25):
And he cares about me partlybecause I he knows that I care
about him.
And that means a lot.
Those relationships that havebeen built mean a lot and they
mean legacy.
They mean that what you're doinghas a value that exists beyond
just the little bubble you're intoday, right?
SPEAKER_00 (01:01:48):
And that's so wonderful.
So thank you for sharing thatbecause I would ask everyone
who's listening or or has youknow interacted with us to
really sit there and take athought about the best moment,
the most appreciative moment youfeel.
And it it in my mind, as youwere saying that, the quality
and people showing up or drivingthree hours to be with me at a
(01:02:08):
certain event, even if it waspointless, it stays with you.
And focusing on those people, Ifeel like it really is a success
for everyone, whether you'reworking in a company or you own
a company.
Would you s agree?
SPEAKER_02 (01:02:22):
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely, like, yeah, just thelife would be Mother Teresa once
said, if it's hard to geteverybody to want to hug, but if
half the world was wanting tohug the other half of the world,
then everybody would be gettinga hug.
And she was right, like it inwhatever role you're in, if you
(01:02:44):
just try and make the world alittle bit better of a place
because you were in it, then umwhat you're building will
outlast you and as you said,your little bubble.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:57):
Right.
It's like sand in a jar, right?
You you keep filling it.
You have to.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
I I think some of the the thingsyou've learned in your career
journey, not just with Cinemark,is really insightful for some of
our business owners and ourexecutives that are listening to
the show because culture isimportant.
And I truly feel like you'vepaved the way for Cinemark to
(01:03:19):
just be more successful each andevery day.
Can you tell us how um anyonethat's listening can learn more
about what all services youoffer or what the company does?
Of course.
Where can they reach you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:03:31):
Do you have socials?
So um the the the company hasall of that and uh like
everybody knows how to Google,but we're not Cinemark, we're
not a movie company.
We're Santa's clearC-E-N-T-I-M-A-R-K dot com is our
website.
Okay.
Um that's where they can go andthey can act, they can find
(01:03:53):
access to what we do, how we doit, et cetera, et cetera.
If they want to um they theywant to uh connect with me
personally, um my email isryan.shin at centimark.com.
Um so and they can they can findme there.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:09):
Um I'll add those links to the bottom of the
description on this.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:12):
And I'm happy to help them with any question they
have because I want to make themsuccessful too.
Now, I do have to be a littlebit clear in like I'm not gonna
spend eight hours of my work dayhelping somebody, but if I can
help somebody, uh I I'mdefinitely willing to talk with
them on my own time or howeverit works technically.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:33):
See if you can mutually benefit each other,
right?
What whatever industry you'rein, I've I've been in a lot of
different energies fromgovernment to sales marketing.
I've been in a plumbing industryas well.
And what you those littlenuggets you pick up along the
way, you can just share, justshare them with anyone else.
Well, thank you.
Is there anything else thatyou'd like our audience to know
before we end the show today?
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:55):
Um, I would say that if you're listening, I'm I'm I'm
very happy that you're here.
And I hope you learned somethingfrom me, from story, and from
this podcast.
So thank you for your time.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:07):
Thank you, Ryan.
And to all of our listeners outthere, we'll see you next time
on Market It with Atma.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:13):
Bye.
Today we have on the show Mr.
Ryan Shinn.
He is the marketing director forCinemark Western Group.
They are one of the largestcommercial and industrial
roofing companies, roofing andflooring contractors in North
America.
Welcome, Ryan.
How are you?
SPEAKER_02 (00:40):
I'm great.
How are you?
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Thank you for joining us today.
Happy to be here.
I'm so excited to actually justkind of talk with you about how
you came to be.
Did you, from a little boy, knewyou were coming into marketing
and you were going to be thiscommercial, just all in the mix
with the marketing and sales andthe digital aspect of the world?
SPEAKER_02 (01:01):
No.
So it started in col my basicresume, if you will.
Started in college.
Um and I was always involved inbusiness management.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (01:14):
Um I started uh at a low level just as an employee in
the beginning of college withSears, actually.
Wow.
I ended up through collegeworking in upper store and then
district management with them.
And I came to uh do severalbusiness management roles, but
(01:35):
um was always involved inmarketing uh for for different
companies and stuff, and it Ialways had a mind um towards
marketing, right?
Wow.
And so um so I've I've run somemarketing campaigns for some
larger companies and but I'vebeen with CentaMark for 13 years
now.
SPEAKER_00 (01:54):
So Centimark Western Group, correct?
Yeah.
Great.
So um how long have you beenwith them for how many years you
said?
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
Well, this January it will be 13 years.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Wow.
And uh and can you tell us moreabout what you do at Santa Mark
Western Group and and kind ofhow you've led your team in the
past few years?
SPEAKER_02 (02:14):
Absolutely.
So um uh in Santa Mark, we webuild roofs and floors for large
commercial industrial buildings,sometimes as small as a
Starbucks, for instance, butOkay.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
As small as a Starbucks.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (02:30):
But we don't do houses.
It's not a residential roofingand flooring contract.
Um so I do everything fromleading telemarketing um to
organizations, um uh tradeshows.
Um Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (02:47):
So um kind of give us a little breath of um what
you guys' initial focus was whenyou came into the company and
kind of how you've grown sincethen.
Can you tell us a little moreabout that?
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
Yeah, so initially back then, um, there was a big
focus on the telemarketing endof things.
SPEAKER_00 (03:06):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (03:06):
And the other groups in Santa Mark uh focus their
marketing or had focused anywayson that.
Um but when I was brought in, mymy group director, Steve, uh he
was very clear that he didn'twant someone just to solely
focus on the telemarketing endof things.
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (03:29):
He wanted someone with a more holistic approach.
And I've always tried to dothat.
I have a uh someone who uh who'sactually in charge of the the
telemarketing end of things, uhAliyah.
And we when you think when yousay telemarketing, you think of
like people at a phone making.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
I think it kind of makes everybody initially cringe
because there's been so much ofit, right?
But back then it wasn't asprominent as it's come to be, it
seems like.
SPEAKER_02 (03:57):
Yeah, and what we do for the most part, like most of
my staff, uh the stateside ispart of it anyways, um, doesn't
do like call people at theirdinner tables and ask if they
want to change long distanceservices if you want to park you
back to the 90s, right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
So with health phones, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:19):
The long curly cord.
No.
Um no, they're talking withtargeted uh contractors and our
national accounts programs, isthat is big, and we um we work
within that, um, but they're alltargeted companies and targeted
roles there.
And we're talking with facilitymanagers or or um uh operations
(04:44):
managers at their office andtheir desk, right?
Wow, okay.
So yeah, it's not like makinglots of phone calls.
SPEAKER_00 (04:51):
Right.
Maybe we just need to change thetitle of that department.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (04:55):
I I've always I've always wanted that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:57):
So you seem like kind of an innovator.
You you you like to coach andhelp produce whether it comes to
marketing or kind of anything ingeneral, right?
So tell us a little bit moreabout you're very driven.
You you said before previouslythat you're very mission-driven.
Can you tell us a little bitabout what your mission and
values are and how that leadsyou in?
SPEAKER_02 (05:19):
Absolutely.
So for work, I I think that'ssomething that's kind of missed
in a lot of I think companies asa whole get it, but um
interdepartmentally that it'seasily missed.
Um so for me, the mission isoverarching.
Like, why am I here?
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (05:41):
So um then the vision is how you're going to
accomplish the mission in a spurcertain time period, right?
From that programs develop andand each program has a goal, and
they have to business speak thesmart goals, right?
Right.
Um, so every year, like we haveour mission statement on the
wall along with our vision andour programs and our goals.
(06:05):
And every year, in actually wedo it in February in my
department, we have a big um daywhere we talk about how last
year performed and how we metour goals or didn't.
And then we talk about thevision for the upcoming year and
everything that drivesdownstream of that.
(06:25):
And my people really takeownership of their part of that,
and I highly reward that.
SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
Oh, that's wonderful.
SPEAKER_02 (06:32):
It's a good time, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
Yeah, I feel like we a lot more industries and
companies are kind of cominginto that culture more, but what
what really made you want tofocus on those mission and
values?
Is was it your experience incorporate America?
You saw a lot of companies notfocusing on the company and the
culture, and and how did yourealign yourself to make sure
that you worked and and helped acompany like Cinemark?
SPEAKER_02 (06:57):
Well, um it it actually comes from my
experience uh in as as in faith.
Um and and my everything derivesyour values it's the foundation.
Uh but um I realize that like inany job, you have nine hours a
(07:19):
day that you spend with thesepeople.
And you can have that time bejust like cut and dried in in
your box business, like clockin, do your task, and then clock
out and go home.
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (07:33):
Um, but that kind of sucks.
SPEAKER_00 (07:36):
I love the way you but the to be frank with
everyone, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:39):
Yeah, it it does, it does.
And and so I would rather havemy my team work passionately for
a goal, right?
And their goal can't be just inspace, it has to derive from the
mission, right?
And so um uh we have a missionand each team member uh owns
(08:05):
their slice of the pie there.
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
Interesting.
And and has that culture andthat impact that you brought
into your team has that helpedthe company as a whole youth
feel, in your opinion?
SPEAKER_02 (08:16):
Well, yeah.
Uh so I I looked at the numbersthe other day, actually.
And um so it's hard to measurewhat we've done before 2016
because we switched um to a CRMsystem and and that measures
everything since 2016.
Our old numbers aren't are aregone.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (08:35):
I'm sure a lot of people had that transition issue
for CRM.
SPEAKER_02 (08:38):
Sure, absolutely.
Um so but tw since 2016, my teamhas created opportunities that
have resulted in$170 million inrevenue.
Now there's other things that wewe're we just lost in space,
like like um there's otherthings derived from that.
So it could be in multiples ofthat, but uh provable is$170
(09:02):
million, which is over$80,000per day worked for my team.
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
That is incredible.
SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
So uh yeah, I I can see that it did derive a lot of
value.
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
Right.
That is that is enormous, andand like I said, I think a lot
of companies are trying to shiftto that culture.
But for a lot of our viewers,they're business owners, small
business, large business, andit's hard on your level to to
trickle that down, it seemslike.
So what what drives you tocontinue to want to grow the
mission and the values withinyour team?
SPEAKER_02 (09:39):
So for me, it all comes down to people and
relationships, really.
Like I I love the industry I'min in that a business is in a
building.
And if like let's say there'sexpensive equipment in their
warehouse and the roof leaks,then their equipment can get
(10:00):
ruined.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (10:02):
And so they need a solution for that.
And that's what my company does,and does it very well, actually.
Um and uh downstream, there arepeople in my company who put
those roofs on or do thoserepairs.
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (10:20):
And they have children, and their children
need shoes, they need food, theythey need Christmas presents.
SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
Yes, I think they do.
SPEAKER_02 (10:29):
And there are salespeople whose jobs depend on
them meeting their goal.
And where I can't sell for them,I can help them to partner their
goals with business, with withmarketing strategies that meet
those business goals.
And so, and you know, keep goingdownstream to my my team
(10:51):
members.
They they have a job, they havechildren who need food too.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (10:56):
So um we're like I look at it as as helping those
relationships all along, fromthe customer to the salesperson
to the marketing team, likewe're all working for good.
SPEAKER_00 (11:11):
You're aligned, right?
So, and it seems like your teamresponds very well to to however
you're developing them.
Obviously, your success speaksfor itself.
So tell me more about um kind ofwhat what you've done to help.
You've done small Zarbucks,right?
And you all the way up to hugecorporations.
(11:31):
So, how do you tailor yourmarketing with such a wide
range?
How how do you do that in adirector of marketing role with
such a a large company?
SPEAKER_02 (11:41):
So, so well let me be clear on something.
I'm not saying that we have acorporate relationship with
Starbucks.
I'm just throwing that out therebecause everybody knows the size
of a Starbucks, but that size ofbuilding, right?
So um typically in thecommercial or industrial sphere,
(12:01):
um, a small building will bemanaged by a like a regional
facilities director who have aportfolio of buildings that they
manage.
And so typically we'll work withthem, but let's say there is a
small build a small company in abuilding owner and they need a
(12:25):
solution, um, we can do that.
Now we are positioned as acompany.
I I tell customers sometimeswe're not like a Chevy Malibu,
we're more like a BMW 5 series.
Like we focus on our quality andour our ubiquity more than
(12:47):
anything else.
SPEAKER_00 (12:48):
That's the front focus of the the company.
SPEAKER_02 (12:51):
So so as a solution for a cash strapped small
business, we're not necessarilythe the best solution for them.
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
Right.
You need to know yourdemographic, right?
Um you you're specific withinthe larger commercial space, you
said?
SPEAKER_02 (13:11):
Yeah.
And uh so you asked earlierabout like uh like advice to
other entrepreneurs in that.
Absolutely.
But I would say first we weretalking about the the um the the
family atmosphere and themission driven, right?
As a as a any company shouldreally focus on what their
(13:31):
mission is and how they'recreating that alignment between
their customer and their theirsolution, right?
If if if they're for instance,if they provide if they're a
plumber, right?
They they don't want to work,they don't want to convince a
homeowner that they needplumbing work because that's not
(13:52):
fun.
And a customer doesn't justdon't wake up in the morning and
go, I want to get a plumber in.
SPEAKER_00 (13:58):
Yeah, I want to fix my toilet today or my training.
SPEAKER_02 (14:01):
So they they need to figure out that alignment.
And that might be easy in thecase of a plumber.
You're a plumber, you need youneed to align with people who
need plumbing, right?
Um so but the the next step thatwe were getting at was the the
customer value proposition.
Yes.
Why you?
Um what what separates you?
(14:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Why should a customer chooseyou?
And um uh unfortunately, a smallbusiness sometimes has a feeling
of desperation, like we justneed c more clients, right?
And so they tend to forget thatbecause they're they're just
(14:44):
scraping and trying to survive.
SPEAKER_00 (14:46):
Right.
I'm taking one step at a timeevery day, right?
SPEAKER_02 (14:48):
I think that's uh that's a trap that people fall
into easily.
Um that they they need to stayfocused on their target targeted
market.
They they need they needcustomers who value the value
that they bring.
And they they need to keep thataligned.
SPEAKER_00 (15:11):
Absolutely.
But um, if they don't keep thatin line, I feel like uh uh like
you to your point, a lot ofbusiness owners are running in
circles.
You get caught in that kind ofroute race.
So how do you do you feel likedelegation to your team um and
trust with your team is is ahigh focus for you?
SPEAKER_02 (15:28):
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Uh so I am not a micromanager.
I like uh that that hurts me.
If I if I'm I I tell new peopleand uh like when I bring them
in, if I'm standing over yourshoulder and micromanaging you,
that's a big sign that you needto listen because I'm gonna get
(15:48):
tired of that really fast.
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
Right.
You have enough to think about,right?
That's why you put certainpeople in place.
Right, right.
So how do you go about findingthose um specific personalities?
SPEAKER_02 (16:02):
So I would say that, well, first of all, it it it
starts with me and me knowing mystrengths and weaknesses, right?
I know that I'm I often say I'mmore of a forest person.
I like to look at the map andand chart out the course forward
and look at where we aregenerally, but I don't want to
(16:23):
focus on individual trees.
And I one can either get betterat that if that's necessary, or
bring in people who are reallygood at that.
And I am very fortunate to havethe best employee that I've ever
had.
SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
Wow, Leah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:42):
And she's sh she'll say like she likes to look at
the trees, and she's really goodat that.
Uh-huh.
And so um I can pass off kind ofthat detailed stuff to her, and
she can handle that with a plum.
And um and we together, beingthat we have different folk folk
(17:03):
eye, naturally, right?
Yeah, we can bring on peoplethat that fit that role and just
knowing the the culture of asuccessful or the the cultural
mix of a successful person inthat role.
Um, but that is difficult.
So uh like I I have a whole listin my head of people I've I've
(17:24):
brought in that just haven'tfit.
SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
Right, right.
But Aaliyah, she she has beenwith you almost since you've
been with Cinemark, hasn't she?
SPEAKER_02 (17:32):
More than that.
Actually, she's the only personon our staff that I didn't hire.
She pre-exists me.
She just had her 15-yearanniversary.
SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
Congratulations, Aaliyah.
Great shout-out on that.
So you really are proud of theteam that you've kind of put
together and what you do eachand every day.
So I want to circle back to alittle bit.
We kind of brushed over it.
What does separate Santa Markfrom the rest?
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
Well, to do the elevator pitch of it.
Right.
So Santa Mark, first of all, um,generally a roofing contractor
in North America is going to thelet's say they give a 20-year
warranty on a roof, right?
That's typically between one andthree years installation.
(18:19):
The rest of the warranty is theyou have to go to the
manufacturer of the product.
Okay, okay.
Santa Mark, if we give a 20-yearwarranty, it's a single sourced
warranty.
So if it leaks in year 19, callus.
SPEAKER_01 (18:34):
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_02 (18:35):
And we will not send you back to Versico or GAF or
whoever.
Um, we'll handle it ourselves.
We have a completely separatedivision that handles that that
warranty service.
SPEAKER_00 (18:47):
Wow.
So it's more a white gloveservice, very, very specific to
each and every customer, itseems like.
SPEAKER_02 (18:52):
So that's one thing.
The other thing is our size,right?
So we're we're all across NorthAmerica in Canada.
Um we have over, I think we'reat 110 ish offices in North
America right now.
My goodness.
And they're not franchises.
Um, we don't buy up smallercompanies.
(19:15):
Um, it's all organic growth.
And they're all fully trained uhSanta Mark employees and with
with crews in the differentoffices.
Um so we're not gonna flysomebody out from Florida to
look at your your roof in adifferent market, right?
You have you get the best ofboth worlds.
You get the local team who livesand works and raises their kids
(19:39):
right there in the community.
Um, and you also get the sizeand and scope of a giant
corporation.
SPEAKER_00 (19:48):
Wow, the quality of that that big corporation.
SPEAKER_02 (19:51):
So generally in North America, a a roofer is
what I call two chucks and atruck, right?
Um they've got a ladder.
They have some rolls of ofthermal plastic polyolefin TPO.
And so they're probably gonna beout of business in two years.
(20:11):
I mean, statistically.
And so they they like thatdominates the North American
market, believe it or not.
Really?
Yeah.
And so um so we're we we werefounded in 1968.
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_00 (20:29):
So the company as a whole has been here for quite a
while.
SPEAKER_02 (20:31):
Yeah, and so if we give a like if if it's two
chucks and a truck roofing andthey give you a 20-year
warranty, if they're not aroundin 20 years, it it doesn't
matter anyways, right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:41):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
So a customer will know that we're gonna be around
in 20 years.
And also a customer that has uman outlet in Michigan and
Florida and California has onecompany they can call with an
office near all of those places.
SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
Well, so you guys make sure to embed yourselves in
each and every community thatyou're involved with.
SPEAKER_02 (21:03):
Yeah, well, so I can't say that we have an office
in every community at all.
Right.
But we have an office near everycommunity.
Absolutely.
So within reach.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
Do you feel that's very important for you and your
company?
You guys have what, two, threeoffices in each state generally?
SPEAKER_02 (21:24):
I I won't say a number because it doesn't work
in that way, right?
You've got certain states thathave vast tracts of land and not
a lot of people, and you haveother states that have a lot of
people and not as much emptyspace.
Like so in here in Texas, wehave our uh just on the roofing
(21:47):
side, we have our our DFWoffice, we have uh an office in
San Antonio, we have a an officein Houston, uh, and we have an
office in El Paso.
SPEAKER_00 (21:59):
Wow, and your home base is here in Texas, correct?
SPEAKER_02 (22:02):
No, our our company headquarters is actually in uh
it's near Pittsburgh,Pennsylvania.
SPEAKER_00 (22:08):
Okay, I got you.
But you you are focused on thismarket, but your market is a lot
larger than Texas, right?
SPEAKER_02 (22:15):
Yeah.
Maybe you focus on the Mepersonally, I'm in the Western
group.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (22:19):
And and basically to make it really simple, if you
folded the US map in half,everything to the left of that
is the West.
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
See, that is a very, very large area for the
companies that are kind of onthat build launch growth scale
methodology is how we think,that are on that launch and
scale phase that are growinglike you are, and having to
manage so many different areas.
Your company has also obviouslydone it very well.
Your group, your Western grouphas.
So what system do you feel likeyou put in place to make that
(22:52):
successful?
And how do you manage thosesystems across such a wide
range?
SPEAKER_02 (22:58):
Sure.
Well, internally, um, I look atmy goal it is really meeting
with on the phone or on theinternet or even in person,
meeting with all the the salesstaff through that entire
territory and and helping themto meet their business goals by
(23:20):
implementing sound marketingstrategies.
I I was listening recently to uhthere's a marketing guru out of
the UK, his name is RorySutherland, and he was answering
marketing questions from theinternet on this video.
And he said the he said thebiggest misconception in
marketing is that marketing is acost.
(23:42):
It's not.
Marketing is a way of avoidingan opportunity cost.
SPEAKER_00 (23:48):
What's an opportunity cost in your
definition?
SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
So look at it this way.
If you're let let's let's let'stake away Centimark out of the
equation.
Let's say you're a small uhsingle person plumbing outfit.
unknown (24:00):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (24:02):
And you'll do fifty thousand dollars in revenue this
year.
SPEAKER_00 (24:09):
Okay, very small.
SPEAKER_02 (24:10):
Yeah.
But if you used sound marketingprinciples, maybe you would be
able to clear$100,000 inrevenue.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (24:23):
As long as you've spent then less than$50,000 on
those sound marketing uh uhprocesses, then you've actually
uh you've made money in thegame, right?
So um I would not suggest forfor them to invest, like don't
(24:44):
don't throw money into the wind,right?
But use sound marketingprinciples.
And and back to Santa Mark,that's what I what what my role
is in working with the the salesstaff across the West to
implement sound marketingprinciples so that they can meet
their own business goals.
SPEAKER_00 (25:05):
Right.
You you actually mentioned thatyou encourage your team to you
know do a to take over, to takeownership, right?
So you encourage your team toTO, which is take ownership, you
mentioned.
How do you create a culturewhere people feel safe to take
risks underneath you?
SPEAKER_02 (25:22):
So, first of all, you have to reward that.
Um you you have to look for thatbehavior and it's it not to say
my team members are dogs becausethey're not, but if your dog is
if you're teaching your dog tosit, you have to reward them
doing it correctly, right?
(25:42):
Right, not punish them, right?
Yeah.
And so the and and you have toyou have to be intentional about
that, right?
So that's kind of step one.
And and my my people are gonnaget mad that I compared them to
dogs and I'm I'm clearly.
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
Or not, just on a kind of a lizard brain holistic.
SPEAKER_02 (26:00):
Yeah, but but second of all, um I in my head, um I
don't want to hire somebody whojust sits and stares at their
screen because I didn't tellthem specifically what to do.
So sometimes I'll have anemployee who says, Well, I just
(26:22):
thought that this would be agood idea.
And maybe sometimes I'm like,Well, I don't know if I would
have done that.
But I'm still happy that you didsomething.
SPEAKER_00 (26:32):
Right, kind of w walked out of the box a little
bit.
SPEAKER_02 (26:35):
Yeah.
And so um they they know that Ivalue that.
I also have like stupidincentives, like I'll all I have
these red chips that we giveout, and they they can at the
end of the month they can usethat for they can they can win
some prizes, right?
Right.
So I just kind of I do that too.
SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
Breaks up the monotony of coming to work for
nine hours every day.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (27:00):
And I don't want to do too much that's stupid that
belittles them um because nobodywants to be treated like that.
So I I really believe stronglyin uh treating people like
adults and expecting them to actthat way.
SPEAKER_00 (27:15):
Right.
You even kind of mentioned youhonestly get a little upset when
they don't try, right?
SPEAKER_02 (27:21):
Yeah, that that that that hurts the whole team, is
what it does.
It's it's like the the risingtide raises all ships, right?
I love that.
At the same time, a team memberwho's not pulling their weight
makes everybody else work harderand in not the direction they
they want to go.
They have to veer off to make upfor that.
(27:41):
Like think of a a team of horsesand one horse is lagging, and so
it's pulling the the horsesmaybe to the left.
So the other horses have to walka little bit to the right to
keep that momentum going, and itworks that way in business too.
If you've got some side notpulling its weight, then it it
kind of hurts downstreameverybody.
SPEAKER_00 (28:02):
So absolutely.
So uh you you actually kind ofmentioned to within that realm
of what we're already talkingabout, that insecure leaders
steal credit.
Can you expand on that?
You want your people to outshineyou, you mentioned.
Why is that and how how doesthat belief shape kind of
leadership and legacy for you?
(28:22):
So um insecure leaders stealcredit.
SPEAKER_02 (28:26):
Yeah.
So for uh we we have a big salesmeeting.
Um last year it was in inPhoenix.
Okay.
And um I I do a contest eachyear, the best marketer.
We have a series of metrics thatthat measures them.
The best marketer gets to go tothat trip along with me and and
(28:47):
all the sales staff in in theWest.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (28:50):
Um and last year it was one of my employees,
Kimberly.
Oh, and she comes up and theygive her an award, and the whole
sales staff gives her a standingovation.
SPEAKER_01 (29:02):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (29:03):
And I just I love that.
And like that's my team member.
And she has uh done her best totake ownership and and and
create success, right?
Right.
And uh it's not about me, right?
Uh of course I lead the team,but their success is my success.
(29:27):
And um I I think an insecureperson it really stems from
insecurity.
Like people want to bevalidated, and there's a big um
that that um that sense of ofnot measuring up that uh
insecurity.
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
What what's the it it uh you've developed the
insecurity with because of it'salmost of an inferiority
complex.
You don't want to be seeninferior.
SPEAKER_02 (29:54):
So everybody has that sense of like if everybody
actually knew how unqualified Iwas, they would all laugh at me,
right?
I tend to not have that.
I I tend to veer toward thepolar opposite.
I'm like overconfident and I'mI'm like ready, fire, aim,
(30:14):
right.
SPEAKER_00 (30:15):
So you recognize that distinction between the
two.
SPEAKER_02 (30:17):
Yeah, yeah.
So um that so uh a leader whosteals credit um often has that
in the back of their mind.
They're like, well, that's agreat idea.
So my boss is gonna say, that'sa great idea.
Why didn't you think of that?
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (30:35):
So they have to take on so they take it on, right?
SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
But the the real problem is all their people are
like, if I come up with a goodidea and I share it, then he's
gonna say it's his.
Oh yeah.
That's that's endemic acrossmany organizations, right?
SPEAKER_03 (30:56):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
I think that's a um a dead end road though, because
what happens is you stifleinnovation.
Um you kill that sense of takingownership.
Um because uh if you're doingthe opposite, you've got the
strength of your entire teamcoming up with ideas.
(31:18):
And you can give success whereit's due, and then they'll want
to come up with more ideas.
SPEAKER_00 (31:25):
And what's the counter to that?
I I I truly believe that well, II know for a fact,
statistically, 97% of businessesdon't make it past the first
five years.
Would you say that mentality hasa lot to do with maybe why 97%
of businesses don't make it?
SPEAKER_02 (31:43):
I I think it's it's definitely part of it.
Uh I think that that statistic,um, you're gonna have a lot of
businesses start with a soleproprietorship or a few staff,
right?
And so that that falls less intoless of that category because
(32:06):
they're not enough people tomake a team, right?
Right.
Um as you're as you uh grow thatthat comes into play more and
more.
Okay, go ahead.
And so you have to start outthough with that that mindset of
of taking ownership, and I wouldsay for a smaller outfit,
(32:30):
networking and giving I I Ithink for for that size, people
mess up the idea of networking.
And I see that in marketing somuch, but I think it's it's it's
swinging the other way.
SPEAKER_00 (32:45):
The pendulum's swinging.
So let me touch on that becauseI think you kind of skimmed over
something I want I want peopleto really hear from you.
The very first part of what yousaid, um what you just
mentioned, can you kind ofelaborate on that and the sense
that Okay, you mentioned thatleaders kind of struggle with
(33:05):
letting go of control andtrusting their teams.
What advice would you giveleaders or entrepreneurs that
are just starting out, or maybein the middle of their build
phase, right?
Because we have the build launchgrow scale methodology.
When you're in that build phase,what advice would you give
leaders who do struggle withcontrol, who who do you do see
(33:27):
kind of on that path ofdestruction with their teams?
What advice would you give tohelp them?
SPEAKER_02 (33:34):
So in the build phase, um, first of all, I would
go back to mission and visionand goals.
You have to have that clearlyset.
Uh yeah.
Look at networking, becausethat's that's gonna be your
team, right?
You want outside people to workfor your your vision and and
your mission.
Absolutely.
(33:55):
But that means that you need towork for their mission and their
vision, and then they're goingto want to mute help you because
you're mutually helping eachother as well.
SPEAKER_00 (34:07):
Absolutely, mutually beneficial.
SPEAKER_02 (34:08):
Yeah.
So uh I was in um Idaho.
No, I was in Spokane, and um uha salesperson from uh Boise was
with me.
That's the Idaho connection.
SPEAKER_00 (34:22):
Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:23):
A potential customer walked up.
Okay, and uh they started aconversation.
And the customer was like, Well,I don't have any commercial
roofing needs right now.
But as they talked, he said,What I really need is a I don't
remember, but let's say plumber.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Like I've got plumbing issues, something that
your company did not manage atthe time, right?
SPEAKER_02 (34:50):
And the salesperson went, you know, I know this guy,
he's not with our company atall, but he's just a client of
mine and he's a really goodplumber.
I trust him.
Let me give you his number.
And he did that, and the thepotential customer like wrote it
down and walked away.
(35:11):
And in my head, I'm I'm like,wow, that was that was really
good networking there.
Because what's gonna happen isthat guy's gonna get his
plumbing situation fixed.
But someday he's gonna need aroof, and he's gonna remember
the guy who gave him thatplumber's information, even
(35:32):
though he wasn't gettingbusiness out of it.
There was no benefit, right?
And the plumber, right.
Well, there there is, but theit's in in building community
and building those those thosespiderweb connections, right?
The plumber is gonna be like,wow, you sent me a client, and
(35:53):
he's gonna remember when heneeds roofing work that as well,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (35:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (35:59):
You you took the opportunity to to be a resource
with yeah, but not only that,but both of them are gonna tell
them their friends about the guythat helps them and you they're
gonna need roofing.
SPEAKER_00 (36:12):
Right, from people they know, like, and trust,
right?
Right.
I will definitely go withsomebody that my friend that I
trust has referred me to.
I would say that's 97% of mybusiness is the relationship.
I I can't stand the word salesor even marketing now anymore.
Because if you truly value acustomer and they value what you
(36:33):
have to offer, you're creating arelationship.
Would you agree?
SPEAKER_02 (36:36):
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And uh so we were talking aboutthe pendulum swing.
Like it it has been so so uhback to telemarketing, right?
What ruined that industry is allof the incessant robocalls.
I don't know about you, but Idon't answer my phone anymore if
I don't recognize.
SPEAKER_00 (36:55):
You actually called me this morning and I didn't
have you saved, and I did notanswer that number.
SPEAKER_02 (37:00):
I was offering a Starbucks, which is not working.
SPEAKER_00 (37:04):
Is that insane that our culture is like that now?
SPEAKER_02 (37:07):
So, but but the same thing has happened with I I I
don't know about you on thisalso, but I get constant emails
in my inbox.
Do you have a quick 15 minutesfor me to tell you about the
thing I want to sell you?
And the answer is no, because Ihave a job to do, right?
Exactly.
Um but it like the pendulum hasswung or is swinging back,
(37:30):
maybe, in a lot of businessesrealizing that they can't do
business that way.
They the way to get intosomebody's inbox is to offer
them value.
And then they will respondnicely and earn your right to
talk about that thing you wantto sell to them.
SPEAKER_00 (37:53):
Right.
Kind of our interaction.
Um, we interacted throughLinkedIn, right?
My CEO and I are both onLinkedIn, kind of reaching out
to our business owners that wereally feel can add value to our
show, right?
You I was solving not a problem,but a need that you feel like
would benefit you at the end ofthe day, right?
It's kind of touching on whatyou just said is you have to
(38:16):
either solve a problem orbenefit because you get so many
emails every day.
So how how has that migrationwith being in marketing and
sales, by the way?
Two different things I wouldlike to make very clear for some
of our business owners, very,very different.
In your experience through yourmarketing director position here
at Cinemark, as AI tends to kindof come into play.
(38:39):
We used to do telemarketing,right?
And then everybody gets sick ofthe robocalls at dinner, like
you mentioned.
And now AI is coming into play,which is why we have all the
emails coming into our inbox.
How do you keep up with thetimes when it comes to
marketing?
How do you know how to maneuverout of telemarketing and into
automation?
SPEAKER_02 (38:57):
Yeah, so and like the a lot is being said about
AI, right?
And you've got your people whoare on the end of like it's
gonna solve all of our problems.
We're gonna be in some Star Trekutopia where nobody has to work
ever.
Right.
And then there's the other side,people like I'm a Luddite, I
(39:18):
don't don't want AI is gonnakill us all, we're gonna end up
in Terminator Land.
SPEAKER_00 (39:24):
And what's your opinion?
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
I'm uh I like to say I'm agnostic about it.
I don't like my opinion is notgonna affect whether AI happens
or not.
I'm not Elon Musk or one ofthose thought leaders on the
subject, right?
What I do know is that AI is.
It's here.
(39:47):
My success as a marketer will bedetermined in the near future,
even by my ability to navigateand use this tool to the best of
my abilities.
So to your audience um and andlike a a s uh a uh uh what'd you
(40:10):
say the um build build in thebuilding build launch ground
launch ground so and the buildlaunch and even grow and scale
actually all of it um phase ifyou're a small business you can
use ai tools uh to achievethings that uh a year ago five
(40:32):
years ago wasn't even possiblewithin the year yeah took you a
whole 12 months to completeright right so like like I'm a
I'm a Photoshop guy I've wellyears back I won Photoshop
contests and like I was reallyinto it but yeah back then like
well uh now Photoshop has an AIfeature is one of the first to
(40:55):
do like AI image generationthings in Photoshop so I I
played around with it and umbecause I not to have fun
although I it was fun youenjoyed it to figure out yeah to
figure out what it would do umas a tool and I produced a few
(41:16):
things and I was talking uh atwork actually um with with
somebody on my team and I saidyou know this is doing better
what used to take me a week todo on my own in Photoshop and AI
is like that across the board umso now I'm where it definitely
(41:43):
will be detrimental is it willdo to our inboxes it already has
done to our inboxes what therobocalls did to our cell
phones.
Yep.
So uh effective communication isgonna be more um human yeah yeah
more yeah like like sitting infront of people.
(42:05):
Absolutely more uh analog andless digital if you will uh the
the personal one-non oneinteraction yeah I'm not I'm not
actually saying don't usedigital means I'm saying that
that like the what what analogis to digital the the you know
fire quick gen generic email isto a personal email with with
(42:28):
real connection really sittingin front of somebody etc like
like um you know how when youopen letters in the from the
mail like a lot of places areusing that that handwriting font
yes and you kind of run yourfingers over it to feel if it's
actual writing you can tell yeahbut if you actually get a
handwritten letter you payattention to that more which is
(42:52):
why they're using that fontright so how do you integrate
that into your processes atCinemark with your team when AI
are you utilizing it within yourcompany for that marketing and
that advertising or do you feellike you kind of produce more
quality interactions and that'swhy you've grown as well.
(43:14):
So so I can't it's kind ofproprietary how we're using AI
but we are um however um a goodexample in a conversation I was
having just this week and lastweek uh we we have developed a a
specific uh marketing role inthe the regional offices in
(43:38):
person and they're actuallysending off snail mail
introductory packets and we'recalling behind that just to set
up sit down right those touchpoints right and that's actually
having a a real effect and I'venoticed when we deliver hand
deliver a just an introductorypacket if there's like a little
(44:03):
handwritten note on the frontcover it gets a lot more play
than just you know something Ihave a an option for them to put
in a company logo of the companythat they're delivering to and
I'm like I I don't personallyadvocate doing that because they
know what company they're withit's not impressive.
SPEAKER_00 (44:24):
Right it's that what is impressive is is the
handwriting yeah yes puttingthat I I think to your point
people are valuing that with AIand our emails just blowing up
if I get a letter or a thank youcard even that's handwritten, I
will place it on my wall becauseI know that person took that
extra step, that quality andtook the extra focus in me and
(44:45):
that does create value.
So now I wonder how and and Iask different business owners
this and different C-suiteexecutives like yourself how how
it's affected you.
Are we using it as a crutch orare we using it as a benefit to
our company as a whole?
Because I feel like some smallbusiness owners maybe use it as
a way to educate themselvesversus utilizing their process
(45:09):
with the AI to help growthemselves.
SPEAKER_02 (45:12):
Would what's your so you can and should use AI tools
for marketing number one.
Okay.
The more boilerplate the themore spammy the the worse um
that that personal interactionis is always very key but don't
(45:34):
miss the fact that there aregreat amazing tools to get you
in front of the customer.
What a a good example of thatthat uh in conversations that
I've had I'll have people saywell we want to appear really
high on a Google search resultright yeah those are my favorite
and yeah where are we on Google?
SPEAKER_00 (45:55):
Yes that's the first question but it is important.
SPEAKER_02 (45:58):
But yeah but so um the the Google result might be
how they find you to have thatconversation in the first place
and if they don't find you it'slike the old like AAA plumbing
because they want it to appearearly alphabetical order yellow
pages, right?
So yeah so um and of course itdoesn't work that way anymore.
(46:22):
But um so if you see an AAAplumber you know they've been
around a long time or they'rereally really behind the curve.
SPEAKER_00 (46:28):
Which can add a little credit guys.
SPEAKER_02 (46:30):
So um but um I I will say you you can't have that
personal interaction that analoginteraction if you will unless
they find you in the first placeand AI is a great tool to get
you visible.
SPEAKER_00 (46:49):
Right and then to deliver what you have.
Yeah it's kind of that bridge umwith the cold calling and the
telemarketing you're really thebrand awareness letting them
know that you're there havingthat personal interaction is
really where you grow yeah inyour opinion.
SPEAKER_02 (47:04):
Yeah it is it is uh now now I would say so um our
cold calling we actually do coldcall telemarketing have done
cold call telemarketing out ofthe Philippines and I I just
that that recently um my in-yearrevenue uh that I measured from
(47:26):
that still reached a milliondollars so that's not dead it's
not but if you're spending andand by the way for anybody who's
asking that was a bolt on itwasn't like firing people
stateside to to to outsourcethat it it didn't work that way.
I wouldn't have done that.
So um but like if you're payinga lot of money you're throwing
(47:53):
money into the wind.
That's why I'm not hiringstateside people to do that
work.
SPEAKER_00 (47:58):
I kind of can't anyways like that really dried
up um it's kind of a casualty ofthe post-COVID world really
right because yeah you automateand you really get more
comfortable with being able tohandle things and processes more
more analog.
SPEAKER_02 (48:14):
Yeah well yeah and and like what the response to
COVID really like messed up theworking world a lot.
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
You know uh of all the guests that I've interviewed
that either are small businessowners or have been in business
for 30 years plus and are arehuge executives.
So I feel like COVID eitherbenefited or hurt businesses,
right?
So I've see a lot of smallbusiness entrepreneurs who
really were able to developthemselves out of being forced
(48:44):
to to go through the COVIDepidemic.
And then some that really reallystruggled because they were not
on the forefront of the digitalautomation.
That's I feel like it's pushedmore marketing has pushed more
digital because of COVID whichcan be good and bad.
How do you think it's affectingthe large like businesses like
yours a commercial focusing oncommercial industries how did
(49:05):
COVID affect U.S.
SPEAKER_02 (49:07):
Cinemark sure so um it required us to do a whole lot
of interactions that were notface to face right like drones
and drone scans and uh thingslike that satellite scans became
much more in use uh during COVIDalso everybody wanted like in
(49:30):
the roofing industry people payattention to safety a lot
because it's a really dangerousindustry actually and there can
be big lawsuits.
However there was an add-onduring the COVID age of like we
don't just want you to be safewe want you to be uh disease
(49:51):
safe right and but to kind ofmake the jump from and and it
was it was like we did well overthe the COVID years and there
were kind of ancillary issues umthat COVID COVID caused like the
supply chain problem of courseof course in your industry we as
(50:14):
a company managed that reallywell and it com uh at the same
time not necessarily because ofCOVID but um the you know we saw
rampant inflation happening allacross the board um but
definitely in our industry umand we we managed that really
well too I would say one of thethings that we talked about that
(50:38):
kind of has to do with thisissue um the other day we had a
conversation and and we talkedabout obstacles right so COVID
was just like AI is there'snothing I could do about COVID
there's nothing I can do aboutAI.
It does not care about myopinion of how it's gonna work
out.
SPEAKER_00 (50:57):
That's right and COVID didn't either which is a
huge shock to everyone yeah andit's an obstacle yes how but
nobody cares about our obstaclesthey care about how we were
either we failed to overcome ourobstacles and it becomes then a
(51:17):
a morality play a lesson or theycare about how we overcame that
obstacle so sometimes you haveto use a really creative
solution sometimes it's justmuscling up and powering through
what was your process youobviously did well through the
pandemic so what do you thinkattributed to that success or s
(51:40):
sustainability through thatperiod?
SPEAKER_02 (51:42):
So are are you asking the question about Santa
Mark for my role at Centimark?
SPEAKER_00 (51:48):
Your role at Centimark completely whether you
were proactive whether youpivoted um quickly or whether or
not because of the the intentionthat you had initially with your
team and the culture if thatreally helped you power so the
whole start of COVID was reallyweird for me because I was in a
trade show in Hawaii when theworldwide lockdown really
(52:11):
started.
SPEAKER_02 (52:12):
Wow and so I flew back and it it was it was just
surreal because I I flew like uhLas Vegas is the number one
destination out of Honolulu.
And um so on my plane flyingback to to Vegas uh from Hawaii
um there were I think there werelike three people on my flight
(52:35):
and I got into Vegas and thebaggage claims weren't working
it was a ghost town.
SPEAKER_00 (52:41):
Oh I bet that was creepy.
SPEAKER_02 (52:42):
And when I got back to DFW um I had one day to make
because Texas was locking downthe next day.
Quickly yes and I had one day toto make everybody able to work
(53:03):
from home who never had like Inever had work from home.
SPEAKER_00 (53:06):
Everyone in IT at every company was screaming.
SPEAKER_02 (53:09):
And and so but we did so well we made we made
actual bound manuals for mystaff we the the cables were
marked like a each end of eachcable was marked with a
different letter or number andit corresponded to the diagrams
on the manual.
We worked really hard becausebecause the leadership staff of
(53:34):
my department like myself andAliyah at the time we said
nothing else exists today.
This is the only thing we'regonna do.
And so and we boxed them all upwith employees names on each box
right and it worked so well.
We had to manage like there wasno time clock anymore because
(53:55):
people were working from home.
But the point was because it's afun story to tell how we
overcame that challenge and II'm very proud to say that in
the heart of COVID where we wereall working from home I didn't
have a single I didn't lose asingle employee and I didn't
have a single employee who leftSanta Mark.
(54:17):
That is very impressive and keptworking.
SPEAKER_00 (54:20):
As a company as a whole and as you as a leader
within your company it says alot about the quality and care
that you have internally and forthe the client the clientele so
through COVID with commercialreal estate and commercial real
estate contracting and theshipment issues you guys
sustained all of that as thecompany as a whole so when
(54:42):
coming out of that what did youlearn as a marketing director
coming out of that pivot changefire drill?
What did you learn?
SPEAKER_02 (54:49):
So what we were talking about about overcoming
challenges I really becamefocused on that like um so COVID
was a big challenge right my jobwas not to say woe is me and
rock back and forth in a fetalposition my job was to make wins
happen happen in spite of and itwas a hard time like talk like
(55:15):
all my staff like there wasthere was no talking to facility
managers at their officesbecause the facility manager
wasn't working in an officeanymore right it's the fear of
the unknown.
Yeah so and and everybody's kindof scrambling like you
eventually had people saying thenew normal right yep and because
(55:36):
it was but there wasn't a newnormal yet it was it was just
stay afloat and like manage.
But so that's a lesson that Idid as a company I think one of
our big lessons that we learnedbut we did well was to try and
think ahead of the problem.
(55:58):
So when I I personally wascontract contacted by other
roofers that I knew just in mypersonal life who were saying do
you guys have material because Ican't get material and I
couldn't answer that question.
I I I don't work in operations.
Right.
But we did we had wholewarehouses that we had
(56:19):
pre-staged so weathered thatmaterial shortage storm and and
we got certain roofing jobs justbecause other people couldn't do
it.
SPEAKER_00 (56:32):
Right they couldn't supply the material to do it.
SPEAKER_02 (56:34):
So you sourced to those smaller yeah so I I I'm A
I'm really proud of themarketing department and and my
staff just being reallyresilient and overcoming our
challenges and being willing tochange what the message is kind
(56:55):
of in the midst of it.
I'm proud of our company indoing the same and and really
there's really smart people whothought ahead of of problems and
of of obstacles of challengesand and planned accordingly and
so you have to get s reallysmart in times like that.
SPEAKER_00 (57:18):
I can just feel the pride exuding from you when you
talk about how that worked as acompany as a whole it's great
that your company aligns withyour values it's very important
especially now that we're moreaware of our emotions and
feelings and the C-suiteexecutives are as well.
So tell me about your greatesthope.
You mentioned what your greatesthope and can you tell our other
business owners what your hopeis and what your insight is on
(57:42):
relationship, mentorship and andwhat shapes your mission and
vision, your hope.
SPEAKER_02 (57:49):
So personally um like I it's not driven from a
fear it's actually driven fromthe opposite but like someday
I'm I heard a comedian talkabout like if you're looking at
a gravestone you have the dateof birth and the date of death
and you live your entire life inthe dash between them.
(58:13):
And so and it sounds morbidright but if as you think about
it it's it's actually reallypoignant.
Like we're all gonna die.
We're flesh and I I I don't haveany allusions to that no nor
morbidity about it.
(58:34):
It just is what it is.
Right.
And so but I want to createthings that will leave a legacy
beyond the dash.
SPEAKER_00 (58:44):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (58:45):
And I want the world to be a better place because I
was in it.
SPEAKER_00 (58:50):
Do you think you're accomplishing that goal?
SPEAKER_02 (58:53):
That that drives me every day drives everything I
do.
I think that um there are thingsthat I have invested my life in
that will have eternal resultsand I really live my life with
that passion with that ethos umand I'm uh from a work
perspective I'm really proud ofthe people that I have invested
(59:15):
in because that that team youknow someday after me their
children are going to have beenaffected by not just the the job
but how I spoke into theirlives.
I have a kind of a joke that Isay that I so in my office I
have a little table a like alittle conference table in my
(59:38):
personal office and every singleemployee including myself have
cried to that table at somepoint not because I was
screaming at them or or sayingmean things it's because they've
uh sat there and said you knowI'm just really dealing with
(59:59):
this In my life right now.
You touch them on a deeperlevel.
Because they know they have thespace to do that.
That I'm I'm not the counselorin chief, but they know that I
care for them as people, notjust functionaries.
And so that is part of thatleaving a legacy, right?
(01:00:22):
And also the the sales staff atmy company know that I'm not
just in it for um being theirsales goal, that I really want
them to succeed in their role.
So last year, for instance, I Ihad a black belt test in in uh
(01:00:47):
martial art that I practice.
And um uh one of my sales stafffrom Houston came up and he sat
and watched that and cheered meon for nine and a half hours.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:02):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (01:01:04):
That like I was talking to him yesterday
actually, and I would say, like,someday when I'm on my deathbed,
I will remember that as like oneof the top ten, because he
didn't have to do that.
There's no benefit to him.
He's not gonna get more sales,more marketing time out of me.
He did that because he caredabout me.
(01:01:25):
And he cares about me partlybecause I he knows that I care
about him.
And that means a lot.
Those relationships that havebeen built mean a lot and they
mean legacy.
They mean that what you're doinghas a value that exists beyond
just the little bubble you're intoday, right?
SPEAKER_00 (01:01:48):
And that's so wonderful.
So thank you for sharing thatbecause I would ask everyone
who's listening or or has youknow interacted with us to
really sit there and take athought about the best moment,
the most appreciative moment youfeel.
And it it in my mind, as youwere saying that, the quality
and people showing up or drivingthree hours to be with me at a
(01:02:08):
certain event, even if it waspointless, it stays with you.
And focusing on those people, Ifeel like it really is a success
for everyone, whether you'reworking in a company or you own
a company.
Would you s agree?
SPEAKER_02 (01:02:22):
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely, like, yeah, just thelife would be Mother Teresa once
said, if it's hard to geteverybody to want to hug, but if
half the world was wanting tohug the other half of the world,
then everybody would be gettinga hug.
And she was right, like it inwhatever role you're in, if you
(01:02:44):
just try and make the world alittle bit better of a place
because you were in it, then umwhat you're building will
outlast you and as you said,your little bubble.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:57):
Right.
It's like sand in a jar, right?
You you keep filling it.
You have to.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
I I think some of the the thingsyou've learned in your career
journey, not just with Cinemark,is really insightful for some of
our business owners and ourexecutives that are listening to
the show because culture isimportant.
And I truly feel like you'vepaved the way for Cinemark to
(01:03:19):
just be more successful each andevery day.
Can you tell us how um anyonethat's listening can learn more
about what all services youoffer or what the company does?
Of course.
Where can they reach you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:03:31):
Do you have socials?
So um the the the company hasall of that and uh like
everybody knows how to Google,but we're not Cinemark, we're
not a movie company.
We're Santa's clearC-E-N-T-I-M-A-R-K dot com is our
website.
Okay.
Um that's where they can go andthey can act, they can find
(01:03:53):
access to what we do, how we doit, et cetera, et cetera.
If they want to um they theywant to uh connect with me
personally, um my email isryan.shin at centimark.com.
Um so and they can they can findme there.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:09):
Um I'll add those links to the bottom of the
description on this.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:12):
And I'm happy to help them with any question they
have because I want to make themsuccessful too.
Now, I do have to be a littlebit clear in like I'm not gonna
spend eight hours of my work dayhelping somebody, but if I can
help somebody, uh I I'mdefinitely willing to talk with
them on my own time or howeverit works technically.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:33):
See if you can mutually benefit each other,
right?
What whatever industry you'rein, I've I've been in a lot of
different energies fromgovernment to sales marketing.
I've been in a plumbing industryas well.
And what you those littlenuggets you pick up along the
way, you can just share, justshare them with anyone else.
Well, thank you.
Is there anything else thatyou'd like our audience to know
before we end the show today?
SPEAKER_02 (01:04:55):
Um, I would say that if you're listening, I'm I'm I'm
very happy that you're here.
And I hope you learned somethingfrom me, from story, and from
this podcast.
So thank you for your time.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05:07):
Thank you, Ryan.
And to all of our listeners outthere, we'll see you next time
on Market It with Atma.
SPEAKER_02 (01:05:13):
Bye.
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