June 27, 2025 • 40 mins
Growth isn’t just about getting more leads — it’s about building lasting relationships with the ones you already have.
In Episode 4 of the ATMA Podcast & Live Webinar Series, we’re talking about the Grow phase — where follow-up meets fortune. If you’ve been collecting leads but struggling to convert them, this episode is for you.
Join Storie as she interviews Bryan Acosta, CEO of Advent Trinity Marketing Agency, to uncover how the best brands use smart automation and human-centered messaging to grow their customer base from the inside out.
What you’ll get:
- The email/SMS formula that builds trust and drives action
- How to use content marketing to stay top of mind with your audience
- The CRM workflows we use to increase retention and generate upsells
- Real-world examples of nurture campaigns that work
🎙 Market It With ATMA Podcast
Brought to you by Advent Trinity Marketing Agency
www.adventtrinity.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome back to Market it with Atma, where we
share the tips, tools andstrategies to help your business
be successful.
Thank you for joining us today.
I'm your host Story and todaywe're diving into Episode 4, the
Grow Phase, where you learn howto turn leads into lifelong
clients.
Mr Brian Acosta is joining ustoday.
(00:37):
Ceo of Advent Trinity.
Welcome, brian.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me again.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
You're very welcome and don't forget, this is a live
podcast, so feel free to dropyour questions in the chat.
We'll answer them throughoutthe podcast.
So, brian, let's begin.
Let's start with something yousay often.
You say many things often.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I do say a lot of things often.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Mike on Brian, can we hear you well?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
yep, now we can okay, great.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So you always say the fortune is in the follow-up
right.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
What does real lead nurturing look like today so the
thing about I always say thefortunes in the follow-up right,
and I always say it a lot,because follow-up, follow-up,
follow-up, and it's something Ioften repeat over and over and
over again and it's somethingthat story here, uh, you know
dreams about yeah, follow up,follow up, follow up.
(01:29):
Did you follow up with thisperson?
Did you follow up with thatperson?
Because the reality is that ifyou're in sales and you've done
sales for a while, um, and youknow that if you're thinking
that you're going to call oneperson and they're going to say,
yes, you should be in sales.
No, you should not be in sales.
Well, marketing is the samething, right?
And oftentimes when peoplebecome very impatient with
(01:53):
marketing, it's because theycontinue to think that marketing
, you just snap your fingers,you launch it, you're in the
market, people know you, andthen leads just start swarming
in, right?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
In a perfect world.
That would be great.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
In a perfect world and even when they fill out a
form, they think, okay, they'regoing to come in.
No, that's not how it works,Right?
So 80% of sales require fiveplus touch points, but yet 44%
of reps give up in the firstattempt.
Wow, so in marketing it's thesame thing.
(02:27):
Most people are like, hey, Ijust want to.
You know, leads, leads, leads,leads, leads, and they don't
realize how much touch points itactually takes to convert a
prospect into, you know,engaging with your business,
Right To actually converting andactually coming in.
And so what ended up happeningis that we forget about the
(02:47):
follow up, we forget aboutnurturing those relationships
and if you have like, forinstance, us, we have bigger I
would say bigger value.
You know revenue, that ourcosts aren't just cheap, right,
it's like when the service andproduct is a higher, thank you.
When the service and product isactually higher in expense,
(03:09):
right, it takes a little bitlonger to close the deal.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
In any industry right .
Speaker 2 (03:14):
And that's just natural, right and so because
there's a lot more involvementand a lot more thinking about it
, and especially if you're B2B,which you know B2C and B2B are
two different things.
But if you're B2B, which B2Cand B2B are two different things
, but if you don't have multipletouch points set up in place to
nurture those relationships, sodo you have email marketing
campaigns to be sent out?
(03:34):
So you're in their emailmailbox, especially if they
inquired right.
Do you have text messagecapabilities where you can be in
their phones, right, um?
Do you have retargeting adcampaigns, um, so that you're
actually um in front of them?
Is your social profiles, uh,can?
Can it do like automatic, uhdirect messages, which we have
(03:55):
linkedin and stuff like that?
You're, you're trying to beeverywhere.
We call omni channel marketing,um, but you and this is a term
that a lot of digital marketersuse is omni-channel.
You're trying to be everywhereso that they don't forget you,
right?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
um so I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I'm gonna say things that people already know about,
which is people buy from peoplethey know like and trust right,
very true.
So you're trying to get theprospect from getting to know
you, which we did in the launchphase.
Okay, we did all of that in thelaunch phase.
Now we're trying to get themengaged.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Okay, we're trying to get them to like you Right In a
very strategic way that allowsthem to go up the ladder and say
, okay, I'm ready, but you haveto grow and you have to nurture
those relationships.
So there's.
You know, we talked about thisthis morning in a marketing
meeting.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
We did.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
The five steps to a customer journey.
So if you're taking notes backthere, if you're listening to
this podcast and you're takingnotes, there are five touch
points in the customer journey.
It's awareness, engagement,conversion, delight and
advocation Right.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And so if you're moving the customer, they become
aware of your business.
They okay, hey, this is what Ido.
They engage, right.
They they okay, hey, this iswhat.
What's what I do.
They engage right, like thecomment, they could be on the
website just watching videos.
They could just be readingcontent, they could just.
They could go to the website,view a couple of things.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
They're engaging, they're just not inquiring yet
they're not ready for right,they've taken the time to go to
the website at least.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Right, exactly so they're engaging but they're not
converting.
It Happens a lot.
It happens a lot.
In fact, we talked about thisin the last podcast that only 3%
of traffic going to the websiteconverts Across the board.
Sometimes even lower, Sometimesless than 1%.
That's some crazy numbers.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
But you want to stay in front of those that did not
convert.
Right is what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Exactly so you want to stay in front of them.
So how do you do that?
Well, do you have retargetingcampaigns.
So what is a retargetingcampaign?
So, let's say you go to awebsite and this happens all the
time.
I go to a website, or I'm evenspeaking.
Now we have, like AI and audioretargeting where I say
something and the next thing,you know, I'm on social media
(06:02):
and it's already like thesethings are listening to you.
Ok, I mean, we're probablygoing to be canceled for saying
that, but these things arelistening to you, these devices
are listening to you.
So, you know, I might bethinking about this new video
game that came out next.
You know Nintendo's, you knowtarget marketing me.
They do that really good, bythe way, very well, and other
businesses do the same thing.
Like, if you're talking aboutthese certain things that are
retargeting, so do we haveretargeting ads set up for
(06:25):
behaviors and triggers?
But also if you go to a websiteand then, when you go to a
website, you jump off and you'reon social media, you're on
YouTube, and all of a suddenit's like bro, like this
business knows where I'm at.
That's called retargeting ads,right?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Right, so let's take it a step further.
So, when it comes to growingyour customer base, what CRM
tools or systems do yourecommend, especially for the
small business owners?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, so there's a couple of different ones out
there and then, like ShamelessPlug, we're building our own.
It's called Nuvio.
It's coming out in November.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Ooh, that was a sneak peek.
I didn't even know we wereannouncing yeah so it's a
shameless plug.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
We're coming out in November.
We're coming out in November.
Our very own CRM is coming out,but there are other CRMs that
are currently out there in themarket right now, some really
good ones.
Hubspot is what we are partnerswith, as well as an agency, and
we support and we help peopleset up right.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
We help them set up and navigate it.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Exactly.
I like that one.
There's a very popular onecalled Go High Level, which is
very good for startups andbusinesses and things of that
nature.
Active Campaign is another goodone, and MailChimp is another
good one as well.
So I would say, if I'm startingoff, I would take a look into
(07:39):
what you're trying to accomplishfirst.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
The thing about CRMs is they all work differently and
they all have differentpurposes.
Even the one we're designingourselves and developing
ourselves may not be the rightfit for like a full suite, like
sales team, right um.
But you know, for us in topspot is impeccable when it comes
to navigating a sales team andmarketing, right um.
You know, go high level is goodfor small businesses.
(08:04):
You know that really kind oflike a one-man show, you know
the owner's kind of in chargeand they just really want to see
some where things are goingwith their marketing and
advertising and things of thatnature.
But the most important thing is, do we have email marketing?
Okay, because that's what we'retalking about in the grow phase
is ensuring we know where those, those leads are coming from,
(08:25):
what channels.
But we also have email and textmessage marketing campaign
strategy.
Yes, because we want to be ableto nurture and tell people
what's going on in ourbusinesses information using
email marketing campaigns.
For instance, we have tons ofpeople that inquire about our
services and they might not beon this podcast right now, but
(08:47):
they're going to get an emailsaying, hey, we just did a
podcast.
And they've already gottenemail saying hey, we're shooting
a live podcast.
Here it is, you can join uslive, but they're also seeing.
You know, hey, we just wentlive, go view the podcast.
And so what does that do?
Like, we talked about this too,too.
Like the podcast is in theconversion phase, so we got
awareness engagement.
(09:07):
You know, uh, conversiondelight advocation.
I almost lost myself in theconversion phase.
The number one thing that helpsthe conversion is trust.
It is, uh, the brand trust,it's the product trust, it's the
service trust.
Well, you have all these emails, but, for you know, you have
all these phone numbers, but forwhatever reason, for whatever
(09:29):
reason, they're just still notconverting.
Okay, so it goes back to emailtext message, but also content
marketing interesting, why is?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
that content marketing is um important
because you're you're educatingright, okay you're educating the
consumer of how your productworks why it matters Is that
before or after they ask aboutit.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
It's after they ask about it Okay, okay.
It might be in between.
So, because they're askingabout it in their heads too,
right, there's not always.
I'm asking about it and then Iinquire.
They might be asking questions,and that's the reason they
haven't inquired is because theydon't know how this thing works
, right?
And so how do you educate them?
Well, you've got to be able toget the right content in front
(10:13):
of them.
You know, for instance, in ourwebsite, right, and so you know
if they're looking for SEOpackages, we want to gear
content to those people that aresearching for SEO stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Absolutely packages.
We want to gear content tothose people that are searching
for seo stuff, right?
So we want content that's infront of them, the right content
, right, okay, so all thesepuzzles, the puzzle pieces the
email marketing, the textmessage marketing, the content
marketing go back into place.
About the retargeting, becausewhat are?
You trying to do?
You're trying to stay in frontof them with the right type of
content because if you stay infront of them I mean, I know me.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Sometimes I'm not ready to buy right then, but I
know I'm interested.
But if someone does stay infront of me two months later
when I can take the option toactually follow through, I want
you to be there because, if not,somebody else's right what's
funny about you just said it isyou.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
You do that.
80% of the world does it rightabsolutely so.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Um, tell us, can you give us a little sneak peek?
What's the number one thingsmall businesses, based on your
experiences, miss when it comesto retaining customers.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
So retaining customers, and most, 68 percent
of customers leave because theydon't.
They think the business doesn't, doesn't, you know, care about
them.
So even marketing isn't um, justgetting the lead.
That's why it's called the growphase, right?
So you've got delight andadvocation, okay, email
(11:33):
marketing and text messagemarketing, retargeting ads work
in all avenues conversion,delight and advocation.
And so you know if, if you'renot working your customers and
you're not being in front ofthem and giving them resources
and education, even if they'recustomers, you know they'll
(11:53):
leave if they don't feel thatyou care about them.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Right, Appreciate what revenue you've brought in
Well yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And then brand loyalty Absolutely.
Even with a retail company, youknow the businesses that make
it are the ones that have brandloyalty.
They become advocates.
And so how do you get acustomer, a prospect, once they
become a customer, to be excited?
Okay, and I always talk to thisabout when I'm helping onboard
(12:20):
customers as well.
I'm helping customers, like,really sit down and think about,
okay, what happens after you.
Do you have any like it's notjust digital marketing, it's
promotional goods, right,absolutely Like, do you have
welcome packets?
Do you have thank you cards?
Do you have onboarding packetsor welcome promotional goods
like t-shirts?
Like you make them feel a partof the brand.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Absolutely.
You want them to be a promoterof everything.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Exactly, I think it's the plug.
There we go.
When they're carrying aroundyou know, your water bottle.
When they're carrying aroundyour T-shirt, they're wearing
your T-shirt.
When they're wearing your bags,I mean, they're out there
promoting and they feel goodabout it.
The biggest mistake that a lotof businesses make when they do
promotional goods and thishappens all the time is
(13:06):
promotional goods is actuallysold wrong all the time.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Because promotional goods.
The historical part is hey, I'mgoing to do a trade show and
I'm going to get a promotionalgoods and I'm going to go out
there and do my thing, Right.
And when they go home, they gotthis bag of promotional goods
and they forget about it, Right?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yes, I think mine's still hanging in my bedroom.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Exactly.
But if you did your marketingright and they are actually
inquiring and they came backhome with a promotional code or
they became a customer.
They have a water bottle ormaybe something that sits on
their on their desk, or maybe aT-shirt, right?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Mousepad.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I'm out.
I'm not a mousepad, a mousepad.
They're still thinking aboutyou, so that's another way for
you to to retarget right and getthem back on the website.
You know what?
I did talk to Adventure NewMarketing Agency at that show.
You know I did talk to Story atthat networking event and, oh
my gosh, I won that prize.
And you know I do need to talkto them right.
(14:04):
Absolutely.
Marketing is about being infront of them, and if you're
only doing it the old school way, which is to direct mailers and
promotional goods, and you'vegotten referrals and that's
great, but the other competitorsare being in front of them as
well, using digital, you kind ofhave to have both and it's kind
of crazy.
That's why we shifted over fromsaying that we're a digital
(14:26):
marketing firm to saying we're amarketing agency.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yes, it's a huge variation, huge difference.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
It is, and so we take a look at each component,
because promotional goods dowork if strategically utilized
right.
Direct mailers do work as well,if strategically utilized right
.
So what's the goal?
I mean, at the end of the day,it's about data.
Even if you did direct mailers,where are you trying to get
them?
You're trying to get them tothe website.
Why are you trying to get themto the website?
So you can do retargeting adsand that they can inquire.
(14:54):
Why are you trying to get themto inquire?
So you can do email marketingcampaigns?
Because you need to be in frontof them over and over, and over
and over again and finally say,okay, you know what I do want
to take the next step.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
So to that point, now that you're getting a little
more specific, can you breakdown the nurture strategy?
How many touch points, becauseyou say we have to stay in front
of them?
What kind of messages are wetalking about, and how many
touch points do you really needto have?
Are we saying 30?
Are we saying five?
What is the variation?
So you need?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
at least anywhere from 7 to 12 touch points.
You know, some would even argue15, okay, but kind of just a
median is like 7 to 12 touchpoints, okay.
So what kind of drip campaignsare?
Are you and this goes to anyoutbound marketing like Story is
now starting to think about herlife and why we do things and
the way we do it now?
(15:41):
Because she's having PTSD ofher cells, right, so you know,
when she does follow-ups, that'sa good problem, yep, when you
do follow-ups, you're what do Isay?
Email call, email call, emailcall, linkedin call, email,
linkedin call, right, and it'slike multiple touch points.
Well, in the digital marketinglandscape, it could do something
(16:03):
like this.
I'll give you a couple ofexamples of how you could
nurture and grow a relationship.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So first I could do a direct mailer or a mail piece
and I could send it over to a.
And this is just like sales whenI want to hear, okay, I can
send it over to a business maybea care package, maybe do
promotional good, and they getlike a notepad or notebook or
something like that and say, hey, you know, there's a note
saying we'd like to talk to youabout your digital marketing.
(16:39):
Yada, yada, right, they have a.
Uh, they have a um, you knowsome sort of qr code.
Try to get into the website.
Next, you know um, you, you gob2b, you do old school and you
go visit them.
Okay, and yeah, right, butbefore you go visit them, you
email.
You email them because you havetheir email, or let's say, you
don't have their email.
So what happens is, if youdon't have their email, you go
visit them.
You do the, the, the store, uh,visit and you knock on their
door and they still don't answerthe owners.
It has their gatekeeper, um,and they're like man, this
(16:59):
business is relentless.
So next thing, you know thatbusiness owner's like who is
this person or where is thisbusiness?
Speaker 1 (17:04):
then they go to the website oh, so that's, that's
kind of the hook.
I mean you you've engaged themenough to where they want to go
and see what you're about?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
So then they go to the website who is this person?
What are they doing?
So then you go to the websiteand once you're on the website,
okay Alright.
So then they're on Facebook andthen next thing you know you
come.
So it's like, okay, I've got toknow.
You guys are relentless Likewhy you know?
I mean, that's just the natureof marketing and advertising.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Well, you're not so much go in every time trying to
sell to them.
Maybe that second touch pointis just to say hi, I wanted to
introduce myself with noexpectation.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Right, if you do it strategic enough and less salesy
enough, the methodology couldbe beneficial.
And then you're gonna be like,okay, I've got to know what
you're doing because I need todo it for myself.
Like you know and this is partof the program, right, we have a
lot of clients that say thatactually all the time they're
(18:00):
like man, how did?
You I just see you everywheredang it, and so you know.
No, it's really important thatum, um, that you're in front of
people multiple times, I meanbecause, you know, and even with
, unless just this happens allthe time uh think about, because
I used to work in that in thehealth and wellness industry.
Uh, I, I used to think about, um, the gym, because I used to
work in a gym and we would get alot of web leads and then we
(18:23):
would call those web leads toschedule appointment okay to
come utilize their five-day passum, and then from there we
would just follow up, follow up,follow up, follow up and then,
even when back in a day we hadto confirm the appointment, call
a confirmed appointment right,all right, and then there was
only email.
Nowadays you got text messagemarketing campaigns, you got
(18:44):
email marketing campaigns.
There's multiple ways for youto increase the show rate and of
course, we're talking aboutgrowing it and selling.
But um, but if you see, if younotice, right, that's the end
game goal for the businesses isI want more revenue.
So where does the revenue come?
It comes from the sales.
It doesn't come from themarketing right yeah.
(19:04):
so the marketing job is to getthem engaged and get them aware
and get them to inquire and thenfrom there the marketing's job
is to support the sales teamwith any kind of automation
that's possible to be able tonurture and get them in the door
to the business.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
With that being said, brian, let's talk channels.
Is email marketing really stillalive?
I know I have a ton of junkemail and what are you seeing
right now, in 2025, that worksbest, and on what channel?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So I got some data here because I mean it's so
important, and 25 data showsthat.
You know your ROI from emailmarketing is still, you know,
$32 to $42 per ROI per $1 onemail.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Okay, so what does that mean?
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So that means that you know you it's cheaper right
it's cheaper for the emailmarketing and it's still working
.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
It's what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
It's still working.
It's shorter, it's mobileoptimized for emails.
Now, with the new technology ofemail marketing campaigns, you
can do visuals, you can do videoemails, you can do all kinds of
stuff, but people are stillreading their emails, right,
they have to, because that's howthey subscribe to things,
that's how they cancel thingsand you know, and so.
But once again, you have to becareful, because everybody's
(20:18):
like I want to go into emailmarketing, but they don't have a
database.
Their heart loss, right, evenwith text message marketing as
well very a lot of people getinto this problem where they
know that it's it's it's moreaffordable, which is why they
want to get into this problemwhere they know that it's it's
it's more affordable, which iswhy they want to get into it.
So they'll buy a list and thenthey'll get themselves into even
more problems because what theydon't realize is that they're
blacklisting their emailsbecause people uh didn't really
(20:41):
um inquire, right oh okay, sothose warm leads that do inquire
, they're automatically which iswhy I don't ever tell people,
hey, go buy a bunch of emailsand we'll go ahead and email
blast.
No, so what you want to do isyou still want to go.
It goes back to the customerjourney, right, right.
The customer journey is whatAwareness?
(21:02):
How do they become aware of you?
Well, they became aware of youby you doing Facebook ads, radio
ads, television ads.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
You can do traditional ads, direct mailers,
no matter you, just Facebookads, radio ad, television ads,
you can do traditional ads,direct mailers, no matter, you
just find a way to be.
You've enticed them enough tomake them want to inquire, right
exactly, you're just trying toget their attention.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Okay, you get them engaged.
How do you get them engaged?
You get them to the website.
You get them to your socialmedia pages um, you've.
So everything is starting tocome into transition, or you
know, flourishing here is didyou go back and did you
strategize?
Did you build the right assets?
Did you build the right video?
You know videos, uh,photography, the videography,
(21:40):
the graphic design, the website.
Did you framework it and haveyou completely, continuously
optimize it to launch into themarket?
Right, so we launch into themarket.
You're during the launch of themarket.
You're trying to do that.
You're trying to get uh emails.
You're trying to get phonenumbers.
You're trying to get um pixeltracking, facebook pixel
interesting google tracking, uh,now tiktok tracking pixels all
(22:04):
this, uh, these codes that trackuser flow.
Why, to get in front of themagain?
Your end game goal should behey, I just need their email and
phone number.
Okay, because the more emailsand phone numbers, there's so
many things you can do with theemail and phone number.
So, for instance, on Facebook,if you have enough emails and
phone numbers, you can createlookalike audiences and target
(22:25):
them.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Wow Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And so you can target them directly and you can
create lookalike audiences.
You can target them directlyand you can create lookalike
audiences.
So, on Facebook, instagram, ifI had enough emails and phone
numbers real ones, by the way,because it doesn't make sense
for you to purchase fake ones-Ones that they've given you
right.
Well, then what happens?
Because this happens before.
Somebody says, hey, here's alist, and the next thing you
know, you look at the data onFacebook and then people are in
(22:49):
Bangladesh.
It's because they're fakeemails and phone numbers.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Which is a waste of time for everyone, right?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Exactly so.
The most traditional way is tofind a way to have content
engaging enough to get people'semails, phone numbers, right,
doing free trials and things ofthat nature.
You have enough of those thatyou're able to excuse me, that
you're able to say you know what, I'm going to go ahead and
retarget them and now I have atrue list, absolutely.
(23:16):
We're going to do some Facebookand Instagram retargeting ads
or TikTok retargeting ads orwhat have you.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Right, but you can't do retargeting until, like I
said, our very first episode,that strategy understanding
where your audience is it allencompasses each other to bring
it back around.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, it's all about that.
And the big thing is, you knowit really goes back to ensuring
that you're optimizing thatbuild phase, because if people
aren't engaging, you launch inthere.
You're not getting enoughemails, you're not getting
enough phone numbers and you'relike, hey, look, they're very
quick to say you know, it'sFacebook's fault, it's Google's
(23:53):
fault, you first.
You, okay, this data tells youhey, let's go back to the
content.
Yep, hey, let's go back to thecontent Yep, right, let's go
back to the website.
Let's go back, you know.
Let's figure out why they'renot engaging.
You know, data tells everything.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Absolutely so.
Tell me now.
We've got the data.
You're saying email marketingis still there and retargeting,
so what about automation?
How can businesses personalizetheir follow-up at scale without
sounding robotic or fake?
Because that's a hard.
Before I came and startedworking with you, that was a
really hard part.
(24:26):
I don't want them to think I'mspamming them.
I want to give them somethingthey can use, right.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So I guess it really depends on the goal and what
you're trying to accomplish Foryou to not there.
Okay, there are certain thingsthat you say to everyone, of
course, right, it doesn't matterwho.
They are right.
And so if you can figure out,okay, what am I saying over and,
over and over again to multipleprospects?
It's the same thing then it'snot going to sound robotic, you
(24:53):
know, for instance, if this is aprime example, yeah, um, I get,
I get emails all the time.
Uh, replies back.
By the way, when peopleschedule an appointment and they
don't realize they're gettinghit up with automatic emails,
they think I'm truly, I'm truly,uh, emailing them I get it all
the time.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Well, brian sent me an email.
Yeah, brian sent me an email.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
no, that's automation , but it sounded real yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Because you put some thought into that response.
Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
You put some thought in your automations and you make
it sound as authentic as youcan and as possible.
Now you know if you've got coldleads, if you've got warm leads
or anything like that whereyou're trying to reengage them,
providing them resources.
Right, this actually goes backto content marketing and the
website.
So the website, once it's built, it's not completed.
(25:44):
That's the biggest mistake thatpeople make when they get into
marketing.
They think, hey, I'm just gonnabuild a website and they will
come.
It's not like that, it's amachine and you got to keep on
growing it's ever growing andchanging right so once you build
the website, you have thefoundation.
Well, the content marketing asyou're growing.
Nurturing is now you'rethinking about how can you
(26:05):
nurture the customer and and ifyou don't mind, let me get into
more detail right here beforeabsolutely so this is good for
us.
Like, let's just think of amarketing firm, okay, um, so I
built the, you know, we builtthe website, we've got the
services.
That's great.
But now we have people askingquestions well, how do you do
this and how do you do that?
So you provide a resourcecenter, basically faqs.
(26:28):
Um, all of this is a part ofthe uh, the content marketing
faqs.
Asking questions, askingquestions, maybe articles, right
, you know, maybe if you're inthe health and wellness, in the
health and wellness, right, youknow, you have a product that is
new, okay, you would want tocreate, start creating content
specific to, maybe, symptomsthat you know that your product
(26:52):
or service provides that solvesright.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Solves for you Right.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
And so you provide real resources on answering
questions that people are askingabout those.
And so are you building aresource center that yourselves,
people can utilize?
Right, because sometimes whathappens and this has happened to
you too, right, like people getquestions all the time about,
well, how does this work and howdo you do that?
And you know, and do you havethe right resources to say, hey,
(27:19):
check this out, check thiscustomer, you know, portfolio
out, or hey, have you read thisebook?
That kind of walks you throughthe customer value funnel, which
is a free ebook.
So we do ebooks, right, this,right here, this right here is a
resource.
Right, you're always out there.
Hey, you know you had a lot ofquestions about follow-ups and
(27:43):
why the website's never done.
Well, how about you listen tothis podcast where Brian talks
about you know why you need tocontinuously do content
marketing.
What is content marketing?
Well, if your customers arestill on the fence and they're
still not converting, forwhatever reason, are your
salespeople equipped withresources to send to them and
(28:03):
are you guiding them back to thewebsite to do SEO?
Right, so all of this, as youcan kind of see, it's a machine.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
No, I would have to agree with you a hundred percent
, because anyone that reachesout say a form and and wants a
consult, I can't meet with themright away.
So usually we have to schedulea meeting right.
If I get a notification thatsomeone wants to schedule a
meeting, I immediately send thema FAQ link via email so that
they have some ideas of what wedo and how we do it prior to our
(28:30):
call, which ultimately helps meconvert at the end of the day,
because then they see thelegitimacy, right at the end of
the day, of what we do and howwe do it and if they're
struggling with something andthey're like, well, you know,
I'm really struggling with xyz,I just don't understand why
people are, um, you know, uh,inquired with me.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Well, have you read this customer value journey, you
know?
Or have you read the customervalue funnel, right?
So it's an ebook that we haveon our website and it walks you
through um kind of what we didfor multiple businesses Nuvodesk
, our business, even thesoftware company Like what does
that funnel look like and how dowe get them engaged enough to
convert?
Right?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Absolutely so.
One last question before westart our Q&A you help companies
double their revenue.
I mean, I've seen you do itmany times just through nurture
campaigns.
Can you share a real worldexample of that?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, nuvodes Desk right, we talked about that in
the last one.
So, nouveau Desk, we had quitea bit of emails and they just
weren't being nurtured.
And next thing, you know, wedid events and we, you know
what's crazy.
Okay, here's a crazy thing.
So we actually, nouveau Desk,actually had a bunch of virtual
mail.
You know, they just havevirtual mail.
They're paying, like you know,maybe 50 to 60 bucks a month for
(29:40):
virtual mail, but all they useis the mailbox.
They don't use the conferenceroom, but they don't even.
They didn't even know that allof this existed.
In fact, we get it all the time.
They come in here Wow, you guyshave a pocket conference rooms,
right?
So our goal is we email themand say, hey, come network with
us absolutely so you have toentice them.
(30:00):
So we got them to come networkand all of a sudden they're like
I didn't know all of thisexisted.
Welcome to nouveau desk, right,you only knew about our virtual
mail.
Now you know about everythingelse that we do.
So that's another thing.
Is you know, um, okay.
So I think a few episodes backwe talked about how, um, a
(30:21):
customer had their averagedollar sale too low, which is um
, so you know, if you have youraverage dollar sale, so we talk
about how many leads you'regetting.
That's all marketing, right.
We talk about how manyconversions you're getting.
That's all sales.
You talk about revenue, right.
And you talk to transactionsand average dollars.
Though average dollar sell ifthey're not paying enough and
(30:43):
you have a wide variety ofproducts and services.
Is how do you get somebody froma lower paying customer to a
higher paying customer?
Yeah, that's all throughnurturing that relationship and
nurturing those businesses,right the trust level that
you've created from the start.
Exactly, and so you know upsellstrategies.
Every business should have anupsell strategy and if you don't
(31:04):
, you're setting yourself up forfailure as a business, because
you have to have.
This is actually let me go backto the customer value funnel
here because we actually have ane-book that you should go ahead
and go to our website anddownload, because this is how
we've built and scaled multiplebusinesses and it's actually a
part of the grow phase.
(31:24):
Right, it's.
Do you have a product orservice?
Uh well, first off, do you havesomething that's free, that
people can inquire?
A free introductory call, afree ebook, a free podcast to
show free, whatever right, yep,free session of free.
Okay, do you have something of?
That is a small value.
(31:46):
Small value is hey, listen yourcost is low cost is low and it's
just to get your providing atry okay okay.
so in this case excuse, I havethis terrible cough.
It won't go away.
And in this case, you know youhave the free.
You're trying to do one thing,and it's very simple, is get
(32:08):
them from free to payingcustomer, and you actually don't
care how low that is.
What you're trying to do isobviously it's not going to be
making you millions of dollars.
That's not the goal of thisitem.
This item is to get them frombecoming a prospect to becoming
a part of the customer community.
Right, and once they're a partof the customer community and
(32:29):
sometimes they'll be, you know,all the way to the big items.
But now we get them to the nextlevel.
Okay, here's XYZ.
Now we get them to the nextlevel.
Okay, here's X, Y, Z.
Now we get them to the nextlevel.
Right?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
So, for instance, if you had a brick and mortar, if
they filled out a form, offerthem something that's going to
get them in front of you at thatbrick and mortar right.
Exactly, Is that what you'resaying?
Okay?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
So every business should have this kind of secret
funnel, super secret funnel.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Customer secret funnel.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I'm not going to give out my secret funnel on podcast
, because then the entire worldwill know and try to take all of
our business ideas.
Y'all can call me, I will help.
No, no really, though.
If you download the e-book,some of that's in there, but I
try not to give away our secretsauce, right, because that is
the secret sauce.
If you go and get the customervalue funnel e-book that is the
(33:14):
secret sauce, that's how webuild businesses ebook, that is
the secret sauce, that's howwe've built businesses, and so
I'm giving you the secret sauce.
You just got to go to thewebsite and download it so we
can retarget you later.
So anyways.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
So let's move on to the questions from our audience,
unless you'd like to addanything else, Brian.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
No, I would just say you know, if you really want to
grow your email, if you'restruggling to grow your email
list, go download a customervalue funnel e-book.
It's a great resource for youguys to check out, because
without the emails and phonenumbers we can't do all the rest
of the stuff we talk abouttoday, which, at the end of the
day, is nurturing.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Yeah, it seems like the nurturing part is where the
real money is, from what you'veexplained to us.
So let's see what questions ouraudience has.
Our first question is I've gota bunch of leads just sitting in
my CRM, so we know a ton ofpeople that have leads that they
don't know what to do with.
What's the first thing I shoulddo to re-engage them?
(34:09):
Is what they're asking.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I think you should start with something free.
Okay, I think that you shouldtreat them as you know customers
that have, you know, fallingoff and saying, hey, listen, I
got something for free.
Here's a free e-book, you know,just a free resource for them
to check out, to get themreengaged.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
OK, ok.
And then what if?
What if, when you send out allof those, you get bounce backs,
or anything like that?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Then that's a great question.
Well, you can start cleaning upyour list, you can start
figuring out how many emails youtruly have and if you have a
real strategy to get more.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Oh, great response.
So the second question we haveis how do I know if I'm
following up too much?
I don't want to annoy people.
And how often should I beemailing my list?
Weekly, monthly?
So they don't want to annoyanyone.
But how often is a good amount?
Speaker 2 (35:01):
It all depends on the strategy.
Okay, it all depends on thecontent as well.
Now, if you're salesy, you aregoing to make them mad, right?
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Salesy meaning hey, buy this for me today.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Buy this, buy that, buy this, buy that, that
business by that.
But if you're like, genuinelytrying to provide resources and
services, um, that that willhelp them, uh, with whatever
problems they're having, it'snot salesy, it's just hey,
here's this free resource or hey, listen to this.
You know, like, for instance,the podcast is a great way you
do email marketing campaigns fora podcast, here's a new episode
(35:32):
.
Right, listen, tune into this.
Okay, it's a very um great wayto get them to listen, to get
them re-engaged.
And we're not saying right now,like people are viewing, right
now, we're not forcing them tobook and schedule a meeting with
us.
Like it's not.
Like, hey, you need to schedulea meeting, like we're
legitimately trying to help byproviding resources absolutely
(35:53):
and so if this is part of thenurturing you're um, we're
hopefully nurturing andeducating and helping that
business, even if we're nothelping them, you know,
monetarily.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Okay, so let me expand on that question just a
little bit.
So you're saying it depends onthe strategy?
If you haven't gotten aresponse from somebody and
you've been sending them anemail every week, should you go
to ato-month basis or should youjust continue engaging until
they say no?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
well, I mean, you're kind of thinking of it like a
sales person, you know right ofcourse, if you're doing sales,
you know you stop and kill it at15, right um but, uh, if you're
doing sales emails, I mean it'severy three business days, you
know three to five business days, right, and then you kill it if
you're doing nurturing, you domonthly newsletters um maybe
(36:41):
even sometimes weekly tips orresources announcements, um
you're providing value for freeokay, so you kind of answered
our next question, um, but letme ask just to be safe what type
of content actually gets peopleto take action?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
I feel like my emails get ignored.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah.
So once again, it's about haveyou put yourself in a position
of the customer and have youasked yourself I mean, have you
really understood your, yourcustomers?
Because a lot of the time isthat, um, businesses don't
really understand theircustomers, they don't understand
their pain points, um, theydon't um, they don't understand
um, the, the, the problems thatthey're having right right.
(37:21):
So you have all these emails,okay, and I'm just thinking of
health and wellness in my headright now, uh, but because you
know you, you want to have all.
If you have all these emailsbut they're still not coming in,
or maybe they have friends,right, well, why aren't you
providing the resource so theycan empower them, your advocates
, your, your, your customersthat are already customers,
(37:43):
empower them to talk about yourproduct service to their friend?
You know if your product issolving um.
You know pain relief.
You know.
Are you sending articles andresources via email to your
customer base about, I don'tknow, arthritis or knee pain?
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Right, are you?
Are you sending them resourcesso that they empower them to get
you more referrals?
Because we all know thatreferrals are the best and the
lowest cost of lead.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Absolutely Referring.
Good business, I'll go with itany day.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
And you have to create a cycle because if you're
entrusting and all you're doingis focusing on trying to get
new business and launching,you're going to go out of
business because you're notlooking at the whole picture.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Right, yeah, they helped me at that time, but then
after that I didn't hearanything from them.
You don't feel valued.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Well, it goes back to what I think it was one of my
talking points here.
It was like 68% of customersleave because they believe
businesses don't care about them.
That came from a super office,right?
That's the source that we gotit from.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
No one wants to be just another number.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Nobody wants to be just a number, and that's why
it's important to nurture thoserelationships.
Okay, wants to do just a number, and that's why it's important
to nurture those relationships.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Okay.
So last question here.
They said, I'm just startingout, should I build my email
list first or set up a crm first?
Speaker 2 (39:05):
oh yeah, build uh your email list first, right,
okay, there's no point of uh,you know you can set up these
free center rms actually, right?
Um, you want to have a place ofstorage one way or another.
Some people start with one crMand move to another, and that's
fine as long as you can storethe emails.
But you build your email listfirst.
You can't email market withouthaving a list first.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Okay, great answers to all the questions.
If any of you have anyadditional questions or need
help, this is the final episodeof episode four.
The final final episode is nextweek.
We'll need you all to join usthen, because that's when you
really learn the full encompassof what we've all gone over
today.
Brian, thank you for being onthe show again, and to all of
(39:50):
our listeners out there, keeptuning in and we'll see you next
week.
Welcome back to Market it with Atma, where we
share the tips, tools andstrategies to help your business
be successful.
Thank you for joining us today.
I'm your host Story and todaywe're diving into Episode 4, the
Grow Phase, where you learn howto turn leads into lifelong
clients.
Mr Brian Acosta is joining ustoday.
(00:37):
Ceo of Advent Trinity.
Welcome, brian.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you.
Thank you for having me again.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
You're very welcome and don't forget, this is a live
podcast, so feel free to dropyour questions in the chat.
We'll answer them throughoutthe podcast.
So, brian, let's begin.
Let's start with something yousay often.
You say many things often.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I do say a lot of things often.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Mike on Brian, can we hear you well?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
yep, now we can okay, great.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So you always say the fortune is in the follow-up
right.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
What does real lead nurturing look like today so the
thing about I always say thefortunes in the follow-up right,
and I always say it a lot,because follow-up, follow-up,
follow-up, and it's something Ioften repeat over and over and
over again and it's somethingthat story here, uh, you know
dreams about yeah, follow up,follow up, follow up.
(01:29):
Did you follow up with thisperson?
Did you follow up with thatperson?
Because the reality is that ifyou're in sales and you've done
sales for a while, um, and youknow that if you're thinking
that you're going to call oneperson and they're going to say,
yes, you should be in sales.
No, you should not be in sales.
Well, marketing is the samething, right?
And oftentimes when peoplebecome very impatient with
(01:53):
marketing, it's because theycontinue to think that marketing
, you just snap your fingers,you launch it, you're in the
market, people know you, andthen leads just start swarming
in, right?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
In a perfect world.
That would be great.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
In a perfect world and even when they fill out a
form, they think, okay, they'regoing to come in.
No, that's not how it works,Right?
So 80% of sales require fiveplus touch points, but yet 44%
of reps give up in the firstattempt.
Wow, so in marketing it's thesame thing.
(02:27):
Most people are like, hey, Ijust want to.
You know, leads, leads, leads,leads, leads, and they don't
realize how much touch points itactually takes to convert a
prospect into, you know,engaging with your business,
Right To actually converting andactually coming in.
And so what ended up happeningis that we forget about the
(02:47):
follow up, we forget aboutnurturing those relationships
and if you have like, forinstance, us, we have bigger I
would say bigger value.
You know revenue, that ourcosts aren't just cheap, right,
it's like when the service andproduct is a higher, thank you.
When the service and product isactually higher in expense,
(03:09):
right, it takes a little bitlonger to close the deal.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
In any industry right .
Speaker 2 (03:14):
And that's just natural, right and so because
there's a lot more involvementand a lot more thinking about it
, and especially if you're B2B,which you know B2C and B2B are
two different things.
But if you're B2B, which B2Cand B2B are two different things
, but if you don't have multipletouch points set up in place to
nurture those relationships, sodo you have email marketing
campaigns to be sent out?
(03:34):
So you're in their emailmailbox, especially if they
inquired right.
Do you have text messagecapabilities where you can be in
their phones, right, um?
Do you have retargeting adcampaigns, um, so that you're
actually um in front of them?
Is your social profiles, uh,can?
Can it do like automatic, uhdirect messages, which we have
(03:55):
linkedin and stuff like that?
You're, you're trying to beeverywhere.
We call omni channel marketing,um, but you and this is a term
that a lot of digital marketersuse is omni-channel.
You're trying to be everywhereso that they don't forget you,
right?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
um so I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I'm gonna say things that people already know about,
which is people buy from peoplethey know like and trust right,
very true.
So you're trying to get theprospect from getting to know
you, which we did in the launchphase.
Okay, we did all of that in thelaunch phase.
Now we're trying to get themengaged.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Okay, we're trying to get them to like you Right In a
very strategic way that allowsthem to go up the ladder and say
, okay, I'm ready, but you haveto grow and you have to nurture
those relationships.
So there's.
You know, we talked about thisthis morning in a marketing
meeting.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
We did.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
The five steps to a customer journey.
So if you're taking notes backthere, if you're listening to
this podcast and you're takingnotes, there are five touch
points in the customer journey.
It's awareness, engagement,conversion, delight and
advocation Right.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And so if you're moving the customer, they become
aware of your business.
They okay, hey, this is what Ido.
They engage, right.
They they okay, hey, this iswhat.
What's what I do.
They engage right, like thecomment, they could be on the
website just watching videos.
They could just be readingcontent, they could just.
They could go to the website,view a couple of things.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
They're engaging, they're just not inquiring yet
they're not ready for right,they've taken the time to go to
the website at least.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Right, exactly so they're engaging but they're not
converting.
It Happens a lot.
It happens a lot.
In fact, we talked about thisin the last podcast that only 3%
of traffic going to the websiteconverts Across the board.
Sometimes even lower, Sometimesless than 1%.
That's some crazy numbers.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
But you want to stay in front of those that did not
convert.
Right is what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Exactly so you want to stay in front of them.
So how do you do that?
Well, do you have retargetingcampaigns.
So what is a retargetingcampaign?
So, let's say you go to awebsite and this happens all the
time.
I go to a website, or I'm evenspeaking.
Now we have, like AI and audioretargeting where I say
something and the next thing,you know, I'm on social media
(06:02):
and it's already like thesethings are listening to you.
Ok, I mean, we're probablygoing to be canceled for saying
that, but these things arelistening to you, these devices
are listening to you.
So, you know, I might bethinking about this new video
game that came out next.
You know Nintendo's, you knowtarget marketing me.
They do that really good, bythe way, very well, and other
businesses do the same thing.
Like, if you're talking aboutthese certain things that are
retargeting, so do we haveretargeting ads set up for
(06:25):
behaviors and triggers?
But also if you go to a websiteand then, when you go to a
website, you jump off and you'reon social media, you're on
YouTube, and all of a suddenit's like bro, like this
business knows where I'm at.
That's called retargeting ads,right?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Right, so let's take it a step further.
So, when it comes to growingyour customer base, what CRM
tools or systems do yourecommend, especially for the
small business owners?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, so there's a couple of different ones out
there and then, like ShamelessPlug, we're building our own.
It's called Nuvio.
It's coming out in November.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Ooh, that was a sneak peek.
I didn't even know we wereannouncing yeah so it's a
shameless plug.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
We're coming out in November.
We're coming out in November.
Our very own CRM is coming out,but there are other CRMs that
are currently out there in themarket right now, some really
good ones.
Hubspot is what we are partnerswith, as well as an agency, and
we support and we help peopleset up right.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
We help them set up and navigate it.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Exactly.
I like that one.
There's a very popular onecalled Go High Level, which is
very good for startups andbusinesses and things of that
nature.
Active Campaign is another goodone, and MailChimp is another
good one as well.
So I would say, if I'm startingoff, I would take a look into
(07:39):
what you're trying to accomplishfirst.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
The thing about CRMs is they all work differently and
they all have differentpurposes.
Even the one we're designingourselves and developing
ourselves may not be the rightfit for like a full suite, like
sales team, right um.
But you know, for us in topspot is impeccable when it comes
to navigating a sales team andmarketing, right um.
You know, go high level is goodfor small businesses.
(08:04):
You know that really kind oflike a one-man show, you know
the owner's kind of in chargeand they just really want to see
some where things are goingwith their marketing and
advertising and things of thatnature.
But the most important thing is, do we have email marketing?
Okay, because that's what we'retalking about in the grow phase
is ensuring we know where those, those leads are coming from,
(08:25):
what channels.
But we also have email and textmessage marketing campaign
strategy.
Yes, because we want to be ableto nurture and tell people
what's going on in ourbusinesses information using
email marketing campaigns.
For instance, we have tons ofpeople that inquire about our
services and they might not beon this podcast right now, but
(08:47):
they're going to get an emailsaying, hey, we just did a
podcast.
And they've already gottenemail saying hey, we're shooting
a live podcast.
Here it is, you can join uslive, but they're also seeing.
You know, hey, we just wentlive, go view the podcast.
And so what does that do?
Like, we talked about this too,too.
Like the podcast is in theconversion phase, so we got
awareness engagement.
(09:07):
You know, uh, conversiondelight advocation.
I almost lost myself in theconversion phase.
The number one thing that helpsthe conversion is trust.
It is, uh, the brand trust,it's the product trust, it's the
service trust.
Well, you have all these emails, but, for you know, you have
all these phone numbers, but forwhatever reason, for whatever
(09:29):
reason, they're just still notconverting.
Okay, so it goes back to emailtext message, but also content
marketing interesting, why is?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
that content marketing is um important
because you're you're educatingright, okay you're educating the
consumer of how your productworks why it matters Is that
before or after they ask aboutit.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
It's after they ask about it Okay, okay.
It might be in between.
So, because they're askingabout it in their heads too,
right, there's not always.
I'm asking about it and then Iinquire.
They might be asking questions,and that's the reason they
haven't inquired is because theydon't know how this thing works
, right?
And so how do you educate them?
Well, you've got to be able toget the right content in front
(10:13):
of them.
You know, for instance, in ourwebsite, right, and so you know
if they're looking for SEOpackages, we want to gear
content to those people that aresearching for SEO stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Absolutely packages.
We want to gear content tothose people that are searching
for seo stuff, right?
So we want content that's infront of them, the right content
, right, okay, so all thesepuzzles, the puzzle pieces the
email marketing, the textmessage marketing, the content
marketing go back into place.
About the retargeting, becausewhat are?
You trying to do?
You're trying to stay in frontof them with the right type of
content because if you stay infront of them I mean, I know me.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Sometimes I'm not ready to buy right then, but I
know I'm interested.
But if someone does stay infront of me two months later
when I can take the option toactually follow through, I want
you to be there because, if not,somebody else's right what's
funny about you just said it isyou.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
You do that.
80% of the world does it rightabsolutely so.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Um, tell us, can you give us a little sneak peek?
What's the number one thingsmall businesses, based on your
experiences, miss when it comesto retaining customers.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
So retaining customers, and most, 68 percent
of customers leave because theydon't.
They think the business doesn't, doesn't, you know, care about
them.
So even marketing isn't um, justgetting the lead.
That's why it's called the growphase, right?
So you've got delight andadvocation, okay, email
(11:33):
marketing and text messagemarketing, retargeting ads work
in all avenues conversion,delight and advocation.
And so you know if, if you'renot working your customers and
you're not being in front ofthem and giving them resources
and education, even if they'recustomers, you know they'll
(11:53):
leave if they don't feel thatyou care about them.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Right, Appreciate what revenue you've brought in
Well yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And then brand loyalty Absolutely.
Even with a retail company, youknow the businesses that make
it are the ones that have brandloyalty.
They become advocates.
And so how do you get acustomer, a prospect, once they
become a customer, to be excited?
Okay, and I always talk to thisabout when I'm helping onboard
(12:20):
customers as well.
I'm helping customers, like,really sit down and think about,
okay, what happens after you.
Do you have any like it's notjust digital marketing, it's
promotional goods, right,absolutely Like, do you have
welcome packets?
Do you have thank you cards?
Do you have onboarding packetsor welcome promotional goods
like t-shirts?
Like you make them feel a partof the brand.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Absolutely.
You want them to be a promoterof everything.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Exactly, I think it's the plug.
There we go.
When they're carrying aroundyou know, your water bottle.
When they're carrying aroundyour T-shirt, they're wearing
your T-shirt.
When they're wearing your bags,I mean, they're out there
promoting and they feel goodabout it.
The biggest mistake that a lotof businesses make when they do
promotional goods and thishappens all the time is
(13:06):
promotional goods is actuallysold wrong all the time.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Why is that?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Because promotional goods.
The historical part is hey, I'mgoing to do a trade show and
I'm going to get a promotionalgoods and I'm going to go out
there and do my thing, Right.
And when they go home, they gotthis bag of promotional goods
and they forget about it, Right?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yes, I think mine's still hanging in my bedroom.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Exactly.
But if you did your marketingright and they are actually
inquiring and they came backhome with a promotional code or
they became a customer.
They have a water bottle ormaybe something that sits on
their on their desk, or maybe aT-shirt, right?
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Mousepad.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I'm out.
I'm not a mousepad, a mousepad.
They're still thinking aboutyou, so that's another way for
you to to retarget right and getthem back on the website.
You know what?
I did talk to Adventure NewMarketing Agency at that show.
You know I did talk to Story atthat networking event and, oh
my gosh, I won that prize.
And you know I do need to talkto them right.
(14:04):
Absolutely.
Marketing is about being infront of them, and if you're
only doing it the old school way, which is to direct mailers and
promotional goods, and you'vegotten referrals and that's
great, but the other competitorsare being in front of them as
well, using digital, you kind ofhave to have both and it's kind
of crazy.
That's why we shifted over fromsaying that we're a digital
(14:26):
marketing firm to saying we're amarketing agency.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Yes, it's a huge variation, huge difference.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
It is, and so we take a look at each component,
because promotional goods dowork if strategically utilized
right.
Direct mailers do work as well,if strategically utilized right
.
So what's the goal?
I mean, at the end of the day,it's about data.
Even if you did direct mailers,where are you trying to get
them?
You're trying to get them tothe website.
Why are you trying to get themto the website?
So you can do retargeting adsand that they can inquire.
(14:54):
Why are you trying to get themto inquire?
So you can do email marketingcampaigns?
Because you need to be in frontof them over and over, and over
and over again and finally say,okay, you know what I do want
to take the next step.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
So to that point, now that you're getting a little
more specific, can you breakdown the nurture strategy?
How many touch points, becauseyou say we have to stay in front
of them?
What kind of messages are wetalking about, and how many
touch points do you really needto have?
Are we saying 30?
Are we saying five?
What is the variation?
So you need?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
at least anywhere from 7 to 12 touch points.
You know, some would even argue15, okay, but kind of just a
median is like 7 to 12 touchpoints, okay.
So what kind of drip campaignsare?
Are you and this goes to anyoutbound marketing like Story is
now starting to think about herlife and why we do things and
the way we do it now?
(15:41):
Because she's having PTSD ofher cells, right, so you know,
when she does follow-ups, that'sa good problem, yep, when you
do follow-ups, you're what do Isay?
Email call, email call, emailcall, linkedin call, email,
linkedin call, right, and it'slike multiple touch points.
Well, in the digital marketinglandscape, it could do something
(16:03):
like this.
I'll give you a couple ofexamples of how you could
nurture and grow a relationship.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So first I could do a direct mailer or a mail piece
and I could send it over to a.
And this is just like sales whenI want to hear, okay, I can
send it over to a business maybea care package, maybe do
promotional good, and they getlike a notepad or notebook or
something like that and say, hey, you know, there's a note
saying we'd like to talk to youabout your digital marketing.
(16:39):
Yada, yada, right, they have a.
Uh, they have a um, you knowsome sort of qr code.
Try to get into the website.
Next, you know um, you, you gob2b, you do old school and you
go visit them.
Okay, and yeah, right, butbefore you go visit them, you
email.
You email them because you havetheir email, or let's say, you
don't have their email.
So what happens is, if youdon't have their email, you go
visit them.
You do the, the, the store, uh,visit and you knock on their
door and they still don't answerthe owners.
It has their gatekeeper, um,and they're like man, this
(16:59):
business is relentless.
So next thing, you know thatbusiness owner's like who is
this person or where is thisbusiness?
Speaker 1 (17:04):
then they go to the website oh, so that's, that's
kind of the hook.
I mean you you've engaged themenough to where they want to go
and see what you're about?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
So then they go to the website who is this person?
What are they doing?
So then you go to the websiteand once you're on the website,
okay Alright.
So then they're on Facebook andthen next thing you know you
come.
So it's like, okay, I've got toknow.
You guys are relentless Likewhy you know?
I mean, that's just the natureof marketing and advertising.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Well, you're not so much go in every time trying to
sell to them.
Maybe that second touch pointis just to say hi, I wanted to
introduce myself with noexpectation.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Right, if you do it strategic enough and less salesy
enough, the methodology couldbe beneficial.
And then you're gonna be like,okay, I've got to know what
you're doing because I need todo it for myself.
Like you know and this is partof the program, right, we have a
lot of clients that say thatactually all the time they're
(18:00):
like man, how did?
You I just see you everywheredang it, and so you know.
No, it's really important thatum, um, that you're in front of
people multiple times, I meanbecause, you know, and even with
, unless just this happens allthe time uh think about, because
I used to work in that in thehealth and wellness industry.
Uh, I, I used to think about, um, the gym, because I used to
work in a gym and we would get alot of web leads and then we
(18:23):
would call those web leads toschedule appointment okay to
come utilize their five-day passum, and then from there we
would just follow up, follow up,follow up, follow up and then,
even when back in a day we hadto confirm the appointment, call
a confirmed appointment right,all right, and then there was
only email.
Nowadays you got text messagemarketing campaigns, you got
(18:44):
email marketing campaigns.
There's multiple ways for youto increase the show rate and of
course, we're talking aboutgrowing it and selling.
But um, but if you see, if younotice, right, that's the end
game goal for the businesses isI want more revenue.
So where does the revenue come?
It comes from the sales.
It doesn't come from themarketing right yeah.
(19:04):
so the marketing job is to getthem engaged and get them aware
and get them to inquire and thenfrom there the marketing's job
is to support the sales teamwith any kind of automation
that's possible to be able tonurture and get them in the door
to the business.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
With that being said, brian, let's talk channels.
Is email marketing really stillalive?
I know I have a ton of junkemail and what are you seeing
right now, in 2025, that worksbest, and on what channel?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So I got some data here because I mean it's so
important, and 25 data showsthat.
You know your ROI from emailmarketing is still, you know,
$32 to $42 per ROI per $1 onemail.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Okay, so what does that mean?
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So that means that you know you it's cheaper right
it's cheaper for the emailmarketing and it's still working
.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
It's what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
It's still working.
It's shorter, it's mobileoptimized for emails.
Now, with the new technology ofemail marketing campaigns, you
can do visuals, you can do videoemails, you can do all kinds of
stuff, but people are stillreading their emails, right,
they have to, because that's howthey subscribe to things,
that's how they cancel thingsand you know, and so.
But once again, you have to becareful, because everybody's
(20:18):
like I want to go into emailmarketing, but they don't have a
database.
Their heart loss, right, evenwith text message marketing as
well very a lot of people getinto this problem where they
know that it's it's it's moreaffordable, which is why they
want to get into this problemwhere they know that it's it's
it's more affordable, which iswhy they want to get into it.
So they'll buy a list and thenthey'll get themselves into even
more problems because what theydon't realize is that they're
blacklisting their emailsbecause people uh didn't really
(20:41):
um inquire, right oh okay, sothose warm leads that do inquire
, they're automatically which iswhy I don't ever tell people,
hey, go buy a bunch of emailsand we'll go ahead and email
blast.
No, so what you want to do isyou still want to go.
It goes back to the customerjourney, right, right.
The customer journey is whatAwareness?
(21:02):
How do they become aware of you?
Well, they became aware of youby you doing Facebook ads, radio
ads, television ads.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
You can do traditional ads, direct mailers,
no matter you, just Facebookads, radio ad, television ads,
you can do traditional ads,direct mailers, no matter, you
just find a way to be.
You've enticed them enough tomake them want to inquire, right
exactly, you're just trying toget their attention.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Okay, you get them engaged.
How do you get them engaged?
You get them to the website.
You get them to your socialmedia pages um, you've.
So everything is starting tocome into transition, or you
know, flourishing here is didyou go back and did you
strategize?
Did you build the right assets?
Did you build the right video?
You know videos, uh,photography, the videography,
(21:40):
the graphic design, the website.
Did you framework it and haveyou completely, continuously
optimize it to launch into themarket?
Right, so we launch into themarket.
You're during the launch of themarket.
You're trying to do that.
You're trying to get uh emails.
You're trying to get phonenumbers.
You're trying to get um pixeltracking, facebook pixel
interesting google tracking, uh,now tiktok tracking pixels all
(22:04):
this, uh, these codes that trackuser flow.
Why, to get in front of themagain?
Your end game goal should behey, I just need their email and
phone number.
Okay, because the more emailsand phone numbers, there's so
many things you can do with theemail and phone number.
So, for instance, on Facebook,if you have enough emails and
phone numbers, you can createlookalike audiences and target
(22:25):
them.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Wow Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And so you can target them directly and you can
create lookalike audiences.
You can target them directlyand you can create lookalike
audiences.
So, on Facebook, instagram, ifI had enough emails and phone
numbers real ones, by the way,because it doesn't make sense
for you to purchase fake ones-Ones that they've given you
right.
Well, then what happens?
Because this happens before.
Somebody says, hey, here's alist, and the next thing you
know, you look at the data onFacebook and then people are in
(22:49):
Bangladesh.
It's because they're fakeemails and phone numbers.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Which is a waste of time for everyone, right?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Exactly so.
The most traditional way is tofind a way to have content
engaging enough to get people'semails, phone numbers, right,
doing free trials and things ofthat nature.
You have enough of those thatyou're able to excuse me, that
you're able to say you know what, I'm going to go ahead and
retarget them and now I have atrue list, absolutely.
(23:16):
We're going to do some Facebookand Instagram retargeting ads
or TikTok retargeting ads orwhat have you.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Right, but you can't do retargeting until, like I
said, our very first episode,that strategy understanding
where your audience is it allencompasses each other to bring
it back around.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, it's all about that.
And the big thing is, you knowit really goes back to ensuring
that you're optimizing thatbuild phase, because if people
aren't engaging, you launch inthere.
You're not getting enoughemails, you're not getting
enough phone numbers and you'relike, hey, look, they're very
quick to say you know, it'sFacebook's fault, it's Google's
(23:53):
fault, you first.
You, okay, this data tells youhey, let's go back to the
content.
Yep, hey, let's go back to thecontent Yep, right, let's go
back to the website.
Let's go back, you know.
Let's figure out why they'renot engaging.
You know, data tells everything.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Absolutely so.
Tell me now.
We've got the data.
You're saying email marketingis still there and retargeting,
so what about automation?
How can businesses personalizetheir follow-up at scale without
sounding robotic or fake?
Because that's a hard.
Before I came and startedworking with you, that was a
really hard part.
(24:26):
I don't want them to think I'mspamming them.
I want to give them somethingthey can use, right.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So I guess it really depends on the goal and what
you're trying to accomplish Foryou to not there.
Okay, there are certain thingsthat you say to everyone, of
course, right, it doesn't matterwho.
They are right.
And so if you can figure out,okay, what am I saying over and,
over and over again to multipleprospects?
It's the same thing then it'snot going to sound robotic, you
(24:53):
know, for instance, if this is aprime example, yeah, um, I get,
I get emails all the time.
Uh, replies back.
By the way, when peopleschedule an appointment and they
don't realize they're gettinghit up with automatic emails,
they think I'm truly, I'm truly,uh, emailing them I get it all
the time.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Well, brian sent me an email.
Yeah, brian sent me an email.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
no, that's automation , but it sounded real yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Because you put some thought into that response.
Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
You put some thought in your automations and you make
it sound as authentic as youcan and as possible.
Now you know if you've got coldleads, if you've got warm leads
or anything like that whereyou're trying to reengage them,
providing them resources.
Right, this actually goes backto content marketing and the
website.
So the website, once it's built, it's not completed.
(25:44):
That's the biggest mistake thatpeople make when they get into
marketing.
They think, hey, I'm just gonnabuild a website and they will
come.
It's not like that, it's amachine and you got to keep on
growing it's ever growing andchanging right so once you build
the website, you have thefoundation.
Well, the content marketing asyou're growing.
Nurturing is now you'rethinking about how can you
(26:05):
nurture the customer and and ifyou don't mind, let me get into
more detail right here beforeabsolutely so this is good for
us.
Like, let's just think of amarketing firm, okay, um, so I
built the, you know, we builtthe website, we've got the
services.
That's great.
But now we have people askingquestions well, how do you do
this and how do you do that?
So you provide a resourcecenter, basically faqs.
(26:28):
Um, all of this is a part ofthe uh, the content marketing
faqs.
Asking questions, askingquestions, maybe articles, right
, you know, maybe if you're inthe health and wellness, in the
health and wellness, right, youknow, you have a product that is
new, okay, you would want tocreate, start creating content
specific to, maybe, symptomsthat you know that your product
(26:52):
or service provides that solvesright.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Solves for you Right.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
And so you provide real resources on answering
questions that people are askingabout those.
And so are you building aresource center that yourselves,
people can utilize?
Right, because sometimes whathappens and this has happened to
you too, right, like people getquestions all the time about,
well, how does this work and howdo you do that?
And you know, and do you havethe right resources to say, hey,
(27:19):
check this out, check thiscustomer, you know, portfolio
out, or hey, have you read thisebook?
That kind of walks you throughthe customer value funnel, which
is a free ebook.
So we do ebooks, right, this,right here, this right here is a
resource.
Right, you're always out there.
Hey, you know you had a lot ofquestions about follow-ups and
(27:43):
why the website's never done.
Well, how about you listen tothis podcast where Brian talks
about you know why you need tocontinuously do content
marketing.
What is content marketing?
Well, if your customers arestill on the fence and they're
still not converting, forwhatever reason, are your
salespeople equipped withresources to send to them and
(28:03):
are you guiding them back to thewebsite to do SEO?
Right, so all of this, as youcan kind of see, it's a machine.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
No, I would have to agree with you a hundred percent
, because anyone that reachesout say a form and and wants a
consult, I can't meet with themright away.
So usually we have to schedulea meeting right.
If I get a notification thatsomeone wants to schedule a
meeting, I immediately send thema FAQ link via email so that
they have some ideas of what wedo and how we do it prior to our
(28:30):
call, which ultimately helps meconvert at the end of the day,
because then they see thelegitimacy, right at the end of
the day, of what we do and howwe do it and if they're
struggling with something andthey're like, well, you know,
I'm really struggling with xyz,I just don't understand why
people are, um, you know, uh,inquired with me.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Well, have you read this customer value journey, you
know?
Or have you read the customervalue funnel, right?
So it's an ebook that we haveon our website and it walks you
through um kind of what we didfor multiple businesses Nuvodesk
, our business, even thesoftware company Like what does
that funnel look like and how dowe get them engaged enough to
convert?
Right?
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Absolutely so.
One last question before westart our Q&A you help companies
double their revenue.
I mean, I've seen you do itmany times just through nurture
campaigns.
Can you share a real worldexample of that?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, nuvodes Desk right, we talked about that in
the last one.
So, nouveau Desk, we had quitea bit of emails and they just
weren't being nurtured.
And next thing, you know, wedid events and we, you know
what's crazy.
Okay, here's a crazy thing.
So we actually, nouveau Desk,actually had a bunch of virtual
mail.
You know, they just havevirtual mail.
They're paying, like you know,maybe 50 to 60 bucks a month for
(29:40):
virtual mail, but all they useis the mailbox.
They don't use the conferenceroom, but they don't even.
They didn't even know that allof this existed.
In fact, we get it all the time.
They come in here Wow, you guyshave a pocket conference rooms,
right?
So our goal is we email themand say, hey, come network with
us absolutely so you have toentice them.
(30:00):
So we got them to come networkand all of a sudden they're like
I didn't know all of thisexisted.
Welcome to nouveau desk, right,you only knew about our virtual
mail.
Now you know about everythingelse that we do.
So that's another thing.
Is you know, um, okay.
So I think a few episodes backwe talked about how, um, a
(30:21):
customer had their averagedollar sale too low, which is um
, so you know, if you have youraverage dollar sale, so we talk
about how many leads you'regetting.
That's all marketing, right.
We talk about how manyconversions you're getting.
That's all sales.
You talk about revenue, right.
And you talk to transactionsand average dollars.
Though average dollar sell ifthey're not paying enough and
(30:43):
you have a wide variety ofproducts and services.
Is how do you get somebody froma lower paying customer to a
higher paying customer?
Yeah, that's all throughnurturing that relationship and
nurturing those businesses,right the trust level that
you've created from the start.
Exactly, and so you know upsellstrategies.
Every business should have anupsell strategy and if you don't
(31:04):
, you're setting yourself up forfailure as a business, because
you have to have.
This is actually let me go backto the customer value funnel
here because we actually have ane-book that you should go ahead
and go to our website anddownload, because this is how
we've built and scaled multiplebusinesses and it's actually a
part of the grow phase.
(31:24):
Right, it's.
Do you have a product orservice?
Uh well, first off, do you havesomething that's free, that
people can inquire?
A free introductory call, afree ebook, a free podcast to
show free, whatever right, yep,free session of free.
Okay, do you have something of?
That is a small value.
(31:46):
Small value is hey, listen yourcost is low cost is low and it's
just to get your providing atry okay okay.
so in this case excuse, I havethis terrible cough.
It won't go away.
And in this case, you know youhave the free.
You're trying to do one thing,and it's very simple, is get
(32:08):
them from free to payingcustomer, and you actually don't
care how low that is.
What you're trying to do isobviously it's not going to be
making you millions of dollars.
That's not the goal of thisitem.
This item is to get them frombecoming a prospect to becoming
a part of the customer community.
Right, and once they're a partof the customer community and
(32:29):
sometimes they'll be, you know,all the way to the big items.
But now we get them to the nextlevel.
Okay, here's XYZ.
Now we get them to the nextlevel.
Okay, here's X, Y, Z.
Now we get them to the nextlevel.
Right?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
So, for instance, if you had a brick and mortar, if
they filled out a form, offerthem something that's going to
get them in front of you at thatbrick and mortar right.
Exactly, Is that what you'resaying?
Okay?
Speaker 2 (32:46):
So every business should have this kind of secret
funnel, super secret funnel.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Customer secret funnel.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I'm not going to give out my secret funnel on podcast
, because then the entire worldwill know and try to take all of
our business ideas.
Y'all can call me, I will help.
No, no really, though.
If you download the e-book,some of that's in there, but I
try not to give away our secretsauce, right, because that is
the secret sauce.
If you go and get the customervalue funnel e-book that is the
(33:14):
secret sauce, that's how webuild businesses ebook, that is
the secret sauce, that's howwe've built businesses, and so
I'm giving you the secret sauce.
You just got to go to thewebsite and download it so we
can retarget you later.
So anyways.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
So let's move on to the questions from our audience,
unless you'd like to addanything else, Brian.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
No, I would just say you know, if you really want to
grow your email, if you'restruggling to grow your email
list, go download a customervalue funnel e-book.
It's a great resource for youguys to check out, because
without the emails and phonenumbers we can't do all the rest
of the stuff we talk abouttoday, which, at the end of the
day, is nurturing.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Yeah, it seems like the nurturing part is where the
real money is, from what you'veexplained to us.
So let's see what questions ouraudience has.
Our first question is I've gota bunch of leads just sitting in
my CRM, so we know a ton ofpeople that have leads that they
don't know what to do with.
What's the first thing I shoulddo to re-engage them?
(34:09):
Is what they're asking.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I think you should start with something free.
Okay, I think that you shouldtreat them as you know customers
that have, you know, fallingoff and saying, hey, listen, I
got something for free.
Here's a free e-book, you know,just a free resource for them
to check out, to get themreengaged.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
OK, ok.
And then what if?
What if, when you send out allof those, you get bounce backs,
or anything like that?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Then that's a great question.
Well, you can start cleaning upyour list, you can start
figuring out how many emails youtruly have and if you have a
real strategy to get more.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Oh, great response.
So the second question we haveis how do I know if I'm
following up too much?
I don't want to annoy people.
And how often should I beemailing my list?
Weekly, monthly?
So they don't want to annoyanyone.
But how often is a good amount?
Speaker 2 (35:01):
It all depends on the strategy.
Okay, it all depends on thecontent as well.
Now, if you're salesy, you aregoing to make them mad, right?
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Salesy meaning hey, buy this for me today.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Buy this, buy that, buy this, buy that, that
business by that.
But if you're like, genuinelytrying to provide resources and
services, um, that that willhelp them, uh, with whatever
problems they're having, it'snot salesy, it's just hey,
here's this free resource or hey, listen to this.
You know, like, for instance,the podcast is a great way you
do email marketing campaigns fora podcast, here's a new episode
(35:32):
.
Right, listen, tune into this.
Okay, it's a very um great wayto get them to listen, to get
them re-engaged.
And we're not saying right now,like people are viewing, right
now, we're not forcing them tobook and schedule a meeting with
us.
Like it's not.
Like, hey, you need to schedulea meeting, like we're
legitimately trying to help byproviding resources absolutely
(35:53):
and so if this is part of thenurturing you're um, we're
hopefully nurturing andeducating and helping that
business, even if we're nothelping them, you know,
monetarily.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Okay, so let me expand on that question just a
little bit.
So you're saying it depends onthe strategy?
If you haven't gotten aresponse from somebody and
you've been sending them anemail every week, should you go
to ato-month basis or should youjust continue engaging until
they say no?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
well, I mean, you're kind of thinking of it like a
sales person, you know right ofcourse, if you're doing sales,
you know you stop and kill it at15, right um but, uh, if you're
doing sales emails, I mean it'severy three business days, you
know three to five business days, right, and then you kill it if
you're doing nurturing, you domonthly newsletters um maybe
(36:41):
even sometimes weekly tips orresources announcements, um
you're providing value for freeokay, so you kind of answered
our next question, um, but letme ask just to be safe what type
of content actually gets peopleto take action?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
I feel like my emails get ignored.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah.
So once again, it's about haveyou put yourself in a position
of the customer and have youasked yourself I mean, have you
really understood your, yourcustomers?
Because a lot of the time isthat, um, businesses don't
really understand theircustomers, they don't understand
their pain points, um, theydon't um, they don't understand
um, the, the, the problems thatthey're having right right.
(37:21):
So you have all these emails,okay, and I'm just thinking of
health and wellness in my headright now, uh, but because you
know you, you want to have all.
If you have all these emailsbut they're still not coming in,
or maybe they have friends,right, well, why aren't you
providing the resource so theycan empower them, your advocates
, your, your, your customersthat are already customers,
(37:43):
empower them to talk about yourproduct service to their friend?
You know if your product issolving um.
You know pain relief.
You know.
Are you sending articles andresources via email to your
customer base about, I don'tknow, arthritis or knee pain?
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Right, are you?
Are you sending them resourcesso that they empower them to get
you more referrals?
Because we all know thatreferrals are the best and the
lowest cost of lead.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Absolutely Referring.
Good business, I'll go with itany day.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
And you have to create a cycle because if you're
entrusting and all you're doingis focusing on trying to get
new business and launching,you're going to go out of
business because you're notlooking at the whole picture.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Right, yeah, they helped me at that time, but then
after that I didn't hearanything from them.
You don't feel valued.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Well, it goes back to what I think it was one of my
talking points here.
It was like 68% of customersleave because they believe
businesses don't care about them.
That came from a super office,right?
That's the source that we gotit from.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
No one wants to be just another number.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Nobody wants to be just a number, and that's why
it's important to nurture thoserelationships.
Okay, wants to do just a number, and that's why it's important
to nurture those relationships.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Okay.
So last question here.
They said, I'm just startingout, should I build my email
list first or set up a crm first?
Speaker 2 (39:05):
oh yeah, build uh your email list first, right,
okay, there's no point of uh,you know you can set up these
free center rms actually, right?
Um, you want to have a place ofstorage one way or another.
Some people start with one crMand move to another, and that's
fine as long as you can storethe emails.
But you build your email listfirst.
You can't email market withouthaving a list first.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Okay, great answers to all the questions.
If any of you have anyadditional questions or need
help, this is the final episodeof episode four.
The final final episode is nextweek.
We'll need you all to join usthen, because that's when you
really learn the full encompassof what we've all gone over
today.
Brian, thank you for being onthe show again, and to all of
(39:50):
our listeners out there, keeptuning in and we'll see you next
week.
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