January 31, 2025 • 35 mins
Discover the inspiring journey of Jeff Greenfield, a former chiropractor whose career took an unexpected twist after a life-changing car accident. Forced to leave his practice, Jeff embraced a new path that combined his love for magic and the burgeoning world of the internet. In our conversation, Jeff shares how teaching himself web development led to building an early SEO platform and a successful career in digital marketing and product placement in entertainment. His story is a testament to resilience, passion, and the power of reinvention.
Think digital marketing success is all about clicks? Think again. Join us as we challenge this misconception, focusing on the true value of building lasting brand awareness and engagement. Jeff provides insights on how chiropractors can sustain their market share, especially during unpredictable times, through strategic use of social media platforms like Facebook and Instagram. We explore effective marketing strategies that don't necessarily require huge budgets but rely on smart engagement with potential clients and the power of referrals.
Engage with your community like never before. We delve into innovative marketing strategies tailored for chiropractors, emphasizing the importance of educational marketing and community presence. Learn about Provalytics, Jeff's recommended resource, and how it helps small businesses navigate the evolving digital advertising landscape. We also discuss the significance of community involvement and offer a free attribution certification course to help chiropractors understand the impact of their practices. Whether it's speaking at local events or educating potential patients, these approaches are crucial in reconnecting with communities in a post-Covid world.
Get attribution certified with Jeff's free course here: https://provalytics.com/attribution-certification/
- Join Marketing 101 for Chiropractors Facebook Group here
- Learn more at EnricoD.com
- Book a free discovery call with Enrico to level up your business
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, welcome to another podcast of Marketing
101 for chiropractors.
Very cool guest this week wegot formerly Dr Jeff Greenfield.
I guess you're always Dr JeffGreenfield, but Jeff Greenfield
is with Provolytics Marketingand he's got some great stuff
about the digital world.
Thanks for being here, man.
Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's my pleasure, dr Enrico, excited to be here today
.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, that's great.
Let's go right into your story,because in the green room you
told me a little bit about that.
And then he's like oh, by theway, I used to be a chiropractor
.
I'm like, wow, holy smokes,this is amazing.
So tell us how that all began,how you got into it and then,
more importantly, how did youget out a young kid?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I injured my back and so I started seeing
chiropractors in high school andI did magic as a kid, and
especially close-up magic cardsand coins, and so I saw this
great opportunity to kind ofcombine those two things
(00:59):
together and I went to LACC in1985, graduated December of 88.
Lacc is now Southern CaliforniaUniversity of Health Sciences
in Whittier.
Moved back from Los Angeles tothe East Coast, opened up a
practice in my house and builtthat.
(01:20):
I thought that was it.
That's all I was going to do.
I had an open room and wasseeing upwards a little over 100
patients a day, working Monday,wednesday, friday full days and
Tuesdays half days.
I was going to be in my 90s, inthe middle of doing an
(01:43):
adjustment and die.
That's what I thought my lifewas going to be like.
And then several years intopractice I was in a car accident
and my elbow got jammed and myulnar nerve on my left arm my
left hand, which is dominant wascrushed and I had severe pain,
(02:04):
couldn't adjust anyone anymoreand had to go for a
decompression surgery that endedup failing.
So I had doctors.
I hired doctors to work for meand quickly kind of migrated my
practice over to be more of amultidisciplinary practice.
But I went from very quicklyjust myself and my wife working
(02:26):
with a couple of part timers, tome running a show with about 65
employees, and I absolutelyhated it.
Because I got into chiropracticbecause I wanted to help people
and I used to always describeit where every day I heard thank
you, dr Jeff, thank you, drJeff.
And then it went from that veryquickly to employees
(02:47):
complaining about days off andall these types of things, and I
was young at the time and Iwasn't prepared for it.
So I kind of dropped out, I gotrid of the practice and didn't
know what I was going to do.
And so I decided to go back onthe road and do magic, because
throughout chiropractic collegeI had my magic had elevated to a
(03:11):
level where I was working atthe magic castle in Hollywood.
So I was a professionalmagician and there was an
opportunity for me to go andtour colleges around the country
.
This is like mid nineties, 95,1995.
Around the country this is likemid-90s, 1995.
There was this new thing calledthe internet.
I knew I needed a website, so Ihired a local company to make
(03:32):
me a website, which ended upbeing a big fail.
All they did was.
They bought me a domain namewhich was magic-magiccom.
You can actually still see iton archiveorg.
And it was about a week beforethis big conference I was going
to and the website wasn't liveand I had to figure out how to
make it.
So I bought this program calledMicrosoft Front Page, spent the
(03:57):
entire weekend in the basement.
By the end of the weekend I hada website, which was great.
So, mission accomplished.
I go to these conferences, Iget booked at colleges, but my
website I'm now updating itmyself because I had built the
thing Before I knew it.
Other people were asking mewho's your webmaster?
I'm like, well, I don't reallyhave a webmaster, I'm taking
care of it myself.
And they're like well, can youhelp me?
(04:17):
I'm like, yeah, I can, but youknow, I'm really on this journey
to find out what I want to donext.
And I tell them my whole story,which I pretty much set up to
this point.
And so I was on the road forabout a year and a half and
before.
By that time I had a wholeseries of consulting clients
that I was helping with branding, with website development, and
so I was now back home livingthe life of every entrepreneur,
(04:40):
working in my unheated basementand building up my consulting
practice.
And then the next thing thatpeople were asking for once they
had a new website and theyliked how things were said about
them online is I want to get tothe top of the search engines.
How do I get to the top of thesearch engines?
So I worked with a developeroverseas and we built up this
(05:01):
one of the first SaaS SEOplatforms called Position
Solutions.
That was an automated way toget whatever you were selling to
the top of the search engines.
Now this is pre-Google.
This is like 97, 98.
But it was pretty cool.
We got a lot of pickup with theemerging real estate industry
(05:23):
and with the emerging legalspace online.
But then I was getting bored.
If you remember, it was only acouple of years before this.
I was in practice with patientsevery day, and then I was on
stage four days a week atcolleges and now I'm in my
basement.
So I reached out to friends inthe entertainment business and
found out about this new worldcalled product placement, which
(05:46):
was getting stuff into moviesand television.
I thought that sounded cool, soI knew nothing about the
business.
I did a little bit of researchand then I used my tool set of
being at the top of the searchengines to make myself into an
expert and over the course ofseveral months I built a new
business in product placementand then, as that started to
(06:07):
grow, we would have clients thatwould ask hey, I want so-and-so
to say my product name more, orI want it to be more used in
the film, and I'm like well, inorder to do that, you have to
pay the production.
That's called brandedentertainment and that actually
led to several clients one inthe pharmaceutical industry for
(06:27):
a sister product to Botox.
We created a faux reality TVshow for them.
And then I created a programfor Verizon Wireless called how
Sweet the Sound to increasetheir market share in the
African-American community.
That's actually still runningto this day.
And then I had a client in theweight loss industry and doing
(06:48):
some work for them on this newplatform called YouTube, and
they had questions about theirdigital marketing.
They were spending asignificant amount of money, but
the CEO was like the numbersdon't really add up.
And I looked at the numbers andhe was right they didn't add up
.
And I looked at the numbers andhe was right, they didn't add
up.
And he asked me to take it overNow.
I didn't know anything aboutrunning ad campaigns, so I hired
(07:10):
some of the best people outthere that I knew in the country
, and every week they startedcoming to me with all of these
big issues that they wererunning into.
The most common one was thatfor every package of weight loss
stuff that they sold, they hadfive affiliates trying to claim
credit for it.
So what that meant is thecompany was paying out five
(07:32):
commissions for every sale.
So that seemed to me that thereshould be some technology that
could correct for this, and Ihad a team that was already
working on a new project for me,and so I pulled some of the
people off and started buildingout what became one of the first
attribution platforms out there, and this is like late 2007,
(07:52):
early 2008.
And that grew into one of thetop enterprise multi-touch
attribution platforms called C3Metrics.
And at this point I was older, alittle bit wiser, and I grew
that company to about 55employees and exited there in
2019, right before the pandemicthinking I would never go back
(08:15):
to a business that dealt withnumbers and measurement.
It wasn't sexy for me.
And then, all of a sudden, inthe last couple of of years,
there were all these crazychanges in the digital world,
all revolving around privacy,and the techniques that I had
used to build this otherplatform were no longer going to
work, and so it seemed to methat there was another
(08:37):
opportunity to hop back intothis crazy world of measurement
and help out some of my formerclients, and that led to the
growth of Provalytics.
So as I look back across mycareer, I mean this seems like a
real zigzag path, if you will,of career choices, but what I
see with chiropractic is thatyou know, our job as
(09:00):
chiropractors is to help, youknow, relieve stress on the
nervous system, help people livebetter, healthier lives.
I see magic as a way for peopleto kind of think outside the
box, help with their stressreduction, although some people
do get very stressed out aboutmagic, they don't understand it,
and where I'm at right now, I'msolving one of the biggest
(09:24):
problems that marketers arehaving these days, and marketers
are expected to be what we calldata driven.
They're supposed to understandnumbers, but marketers don't
understand anything aboutnumbers.
That's what accountants are for, and so I'm helping them
relieve their stress of havingto deal with the numbers.
So I'm still in the samebusiness, if you will, just from
(09:45):
a different angle.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Awesome, that's cool.
And now we're here.
That is so great.
So your insight is impeccableto the entire age of digital.
I mean it's great you look likeyou're 29, but whatever, okay,
awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's great, all the good living and getting
adjusted.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
still, there you go.
Awesome, so yeah, so that'sgreat.
So now you help I mean wetalked about this in the green
room you help multi-milliondollar companies do their
advertising.
When it comes down to the smallbusinesses, which is healthcare
providers and all thoserestaurants, all those small
businesses is where do you seedigital fitting in for their
advertising?
A lot of chiropractors dabblewith it or they hire digital
(10:26):
marketers that say they can helpsmall businesses like them go
into the digital field.
But when we say digital,everyone always thinks Facebook
ads.
But what does that reallyencompass with digital marketing
?
What should a chiropractorencompass for their business?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, I mean chiropractors need to kind of
lean in on this.
You know, I know it's toughbecause you know you go to
school to take care of peopleand you don't really, really
want to know about this stuff.
But one of the things that Ilearned very early on being a
solo practitioner is that thethings that I would trust people
where I was spending asignificant sum of my money on
(11:01):
that I didn't understand.
Sometimes it's like a blackhole to me.
That's where I always wouldlose money because I didn't
understand things.
And there's always a tendencywhen you're a business owner to
say I don't like doing that, Idon't understand it, I'm going
to hire someone to take care ofit, but then you don't know if
(11:22):
you're being taken advantage of.
You don't really understand it.
The nice thing about marketingtoday, versus when I first got
into practice, there was nodigital marketing.
It was radio, print coupons andtelevision and there was no
place to research about thatstuff.
It was really like buying adiamond.
You had to completely trustwhat was going on.
(11:43):
Digital marketing and thefundamentals behind it are
simply like a free course away.
So what I encourage doctors todo is to I know you don't want
to spend a weekend or a nightdoing it, but it's a much better
investment than spending timewatching the new, you know Night
(12:03):
Agent season two on Netflix.
It's a much better use of yourtime.
But what you want, what youhave to understand, is you need
to get your message out there,to where people are spending
their time, and there'sdifferent places where people
are based upon their demographicand their age.
If you're targeting folks inyour community that are 40 and
(12:25):
above, you've got to be on meta.
That would be Facebook andInstagram.
If you're a youngerpractitioner and you want to
target folks in your communitythat are in their 20s and a
little bit younger, I'd say youhave to be on TikTok.
Snapchat is like a small littlewindow of folks in their upper
20s early 30s, but folks youngerthan that are on TikTok.
(12:47):
So you need to be there and youkind of have to be there and
you have to understand how itworks, and I think part of it
has to do with the fundamentalsof marketing.
So marketing, the way marketingworks, is you spend dollars,
they buy eyeballs, you're tryingto get attention and those
eyeballs and marketing speak arecalled impressions, and the job
(13:12):
of those impressions or thoseeyeballs, is to get that
attention, build what we callawareness.
And when awareness is builtenough, if you hit the right
people with the right message atthe right time, people will
come into your store, to borrowkind of the adage of the old
retailers back in the day.
And your store these days isyour office, but in particular,
(13:35):
it's really your website,because that's where you're
driving people to.
The problem that we deal withtoday, in today's digital
marketing, is that everyonejudges the success or failure of
campaigns based on how manyclicks they get.
Because the way we look at itis we say, well, someone can't
come into my store until theyclick.
So if I look at campaigns thatare driving clicks for me, then
(13:59):
that must be what's working, andso what we find is a lot of
marketers.
Today, the way that they viewthe world of marketing is you
invest dollars to get clicks andclicks drive new patients, so I
need to spend money on thingsthat drive clicks.
The reality of that is not trueat all, because what happens is
(14:20):
you spend dollars on Facebook.
People are scrolling throughFacebook.
They see an ad.
It builds awareness.
Then they go on to Instagram.
They maybe see another ad.
Maybe they click and come toyour website but they don't do
anything at all.
But let's say they don't click,they just see an ad and then
three days later, maybe a weeklater, they say wait a second,
(14:42):
what is it, dr John?
So and so back to health centerand they Google it and then
they click on your native linkor your page link there and then
they come to your website.
So based upon that, you wouldsay that your ads on Instagram
and Meta are not working.
But the reality is they builtthat awareness and drove people
(15:03):
to action.
So that's kind of understandinghow people use the internet.
You know they use Instagram andFacebook.
It's very similar to liketelevision.
They're kind of scrolling alonglooking for entertainment.
The ads are in between and itbuilds that awareness enough to
where, when they're ready foryou, they're going to come and
find you.
So it's important to understandthe value that what you're
(15:25):
buying is ad impressions andthose eyeballs.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Perfect, perfect.
Yes, you summed up probablyeverything I say on repeat every
single week.
So my coaching clients are likeI'm going to pause my marketing
.
I've been a chiropractor for 17years and I don't think I've
ever paused my marketing.
That makes zero sense to me.
My dad's an Italian immigrantentrepreneur, self-made, barely
(15:52):
spoke English, construction, allthis stuff, and the one thing I
knew he did was either go doorto door and hand out flyers or
have that yellow page ad.
Constantly he bitched aboutthat yellow page ad and how much
it cost, but always he wouldnever not be marketing and I
think that was ingrained in me.
(16:12):
And so in current, I'm like manthat's a nice luxury that you
can pause your marketing.
What the F are you doing inyour practice?
How is this working?
So I'm like man that's a niceluxury that you can pause your
marketing.
What the F are you doing inyour practice?
Like, how is this working, like?
So I'm always confused.
And then three months laterthey're like we need to turn the
marketing back on.
I'm like I know, why'd you stop?
It's because they really don'thave an understanding and, like
you said, it still is a bigblack hole for most
(16:35):
chiropractors because we're not.
We're trained zero in school onmarketing and many of us didn't
get a marketing major beforegoing to chiropractic.
You, you know, in the eighties,when you graduate, you probably
didn't have the theprerequisites that we have in
the next generation to get it.
I'm not sure I don't know ifyou needed a bachelor's in the
eighties to get it.
Oh, you did, okay, cause I,danny Drew and some other guys
(16:57):
mentored me and they were like Igot into two years after high
school.
I'm like, wow, okay, differenttime, and that was like in the
60s.
So that black hole that youexplained is so perfect because
we really don't understand it.
But maybe dive deep into somethings that chiropractors should
always be doing.
And it's not giving yourmarketing company $6,000 a month
every month.
(17:17):
That's not what we're saying.
And it's not giving yourmarketing company $6,000 a month
every month.
That's not what we're saying.
We're saying what are the A, bsand Cs of marketing that we
should be doing every singlemonth, week, day?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Well, I'll first address what you said about
doctors wanting to turn offtheir marketing Huge mistake.
The advantage that we have asbusiness owners is that we can
look to see what these largecompanies have done in the past
and what the impact has beenfrom them, and we don't have to
go that far back.
We go back to COVID.
(17:46):
During COVID, a lot of largecompanies paused their marketing
because they didn't know whatwas going on in the world and
they didn't follow the lessonsthat marketers had during the
times of previous wars.
During war time, a lot of bigbrands paused their marketing,
but some smart brands, theychanged their marketing activity
(18:07):
to, instead of saying, hey, buystuff, it was more like we
support you, we support America,we support the troops.
Those brands that lean in withsupportive messages versus
pausing marketing, they gainmarket share.
The ones who turned off theirmarketing in previous wars and
during COVID, they lostsignificant market share and
(18:29):
have never gotten it back.
So that's the first thing tounderstand is that you want to
always be marketing.
I kind of like that line fromthe movie ABC, alec Baldwin,
alec Baldwin.
But one of the things that youalways want to be doing number
one is asking for referrals.
(18:49):
That's number one that I stillsee to this day, that most
chiropractors don't want to askfor a referral.
They're afraid to ask for areferral.
When I was in practice, the waythat I was taught to ask for a
referral they're afraid to askfor a referral.
When I was in practice, the waythat I was taught to ask for a
referral is I would say hey, doyou?
You know you'd have aconversation, you get to know
your patients and yeah, I've gotthis friend, jennifer, in my
(19:11):
office and you know she iscomplaining about headaches and
it's just amazing how well I'mdoing.
And so the tendency is to say,hey, give her my card.
But then the patient will givethem the card and you'll never
hear from Jennifer.
So I would always say do youwant to help me?
Help Jennifer?
And patient be like yeah, ofcourse, say you know, give her
(19:32):
my card and ask her if it's okayfor me to give her a call.
And he would ask hey, you knowI spoke to my chiropractor.
He wanted to know is it okay ifhe calls you?
And of course Jennifer would sayyeah of course, and I have a
phone call with her and justhave a quick consult over the
phone just to see what was goingon and invite her to come into
the office.
So that was great.
That was a great way for me toask for referrals, cause the
(19:55):
problem with referrals is thatsometimes you know, your patient
field doesn't, doesn't feelsuccessful if they're unable to
get someone to come in.
But this way it kind of putsthe onus on the person who's
having the problem to say yay ornay to having a conversation
with you.
So that would be the firstthing is always be doing that.
The second thing is always lookfor ways to have your, your
(20:18):
face and your practice out there.
Now, what's really cool is,because of what's happened in
marketing today, is that for alot of solo practitioners you
would never think about the ideaof advertising on television.
That would be way too muchmoney.
You know my marketing budget islike, let's say, two grand a
month.
There's no way I can afford toadvertise on TV.
(20:40):
Well, now, with digitizedtelevision, which is called CTV,
connected TV, that's where youwant to be, because most people
in your community are probablyhave cut the cord.
They're not watching lineartelevision, they're watching
Amazon Prime, they're watchingNetflix or watching Paramount
all these streaming services andfor very little money you could
(21:04):
actually advertise on TV.
So they're sitting down aboutready to watch a movie and an ad
comes up for your practice.
That elevates you to a levelthat's going to be above anyone
else in your community, becauseeven though it's CTV and
streaming, it's still television, it's still the big screen in
the house.
So that's a huge thing.
That's number one.
Number two you want to makecertain that you're active on
(21:28):
all of the social platforms, andwhat I mean by that is wherever
your patients are.
If most of your patients areabove the age of 40, you need to
have an active Facebook page.
You need to have either hiresomeone page.
You need to have either hiresomeone, get your partner to
help you do it, but have that upto date at least several times
a week.
Be posting.
You don't need blog posts onyour website.
(21:48):
Those are not as important, butyou need to be updating your
Facebook page.
I know for our family when we goto check out a restaurant,
let's say, in our community, Igo and I search on Google
because that's what I've alwaysused to check hours.
My wife goes to Facebook.
Her search engine of choice isFacebook because she knows it's
(22:10):
always up to date.
And if it's not up to date,she's like what are they doing?
They should be up to date withthis stuff.
This is crazy.
So you have to get into themindset.
But so you want to have all ofthat stuff loaded, be up to date
with this stuff.
This is crazy.
So you have to get into themindset.
But so you want to have all ofthat stuff loaded and up to date
.
And then, in terms of your paidmarketing, you want to make
certain that you're runningawareness type ads on Facebook.
(22:31):
You want to make certain thatyou've got some brand search so
that when someone types in yourname into Google, that you show
up.
Now if you have a name wheresomeone types in your name and
you're the only thing that showsup, then you don't need to be
paying for those ads.
But if you've got someone inyour community who has a similar
(22:51):
sounding name or you're in avery competitive area, you're
going to have to pay to be therein those ads.
And then other places likeTikTok and stuff like that.
It really depends on thedemographics of your practice
and who you're trying to goafter.
Those would be my kind of myalways on recommendations it's
great, great recommendations forsure.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Uh yeah, and I guess I repeat that to everyone
they're being scared to ask forreferrals.
I think that's the bestmarketing you could possibly do.
It's the only the cheapest,it's free, um, and it it brings
in the best clients.
I mean, when somebody thinksabout somebody else that's going
to be your ideal client, nottrying to find them on facebook,
so that is great stuff there.
So when?
(23:31):
So now?
So now now, like you said, nowthere's all the hats we have to
wear.
Like, I'm the CEO of multipleclinics, so, and I got multiple
associates and I'm in that realm, which is different, and you
definitely have to delegate thisstuff.
If you're in that realm, oreven if you own your own clinic
and you do everything in there,you're going to have to delegate
this part because you justwon't be able to keep up.
What's your best advice forthat?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Well, the best advice for that?
When it comes to marketing, youdefinitely want to have someone
else turning the dials.
You don't want to be in thereworking at yourself, because
you'll drive yourself absolutelycrazy.
But what you want to be able todo is look at a report at the
end of a month to be able to seeand look at trends that are
going on.
Typically, the types of reportsthat you'll get is you'll get a
(24:14):
report that shows you how manyclicks you had, how much you
paid your cost per click, andthen you'll come up with some
sort of correlation becauseyou'll say okay, well, we had
this number of new patient phonecalls, we had this number of
form fills on the website, soyou could say the cost for a
potential new patient and thecost per new patient.
(24:34):
But that report is missing somedata, and what you want is you
don't want just a monthly total,you want an ongoing, daily
count of all of that stuff.
You want it on a big Googlesheet that you can always look
at, but you want the firstcolumn after date to be
(24:56):
impressions, because what youwant to know is, from all the
different places that you'readvertising, what was your
potential reach, meaning, howmany potential people did you
actually reach the reason forthat?
Going back to that example wetalked about before, where
someone sees your ad on Facebookand then they just show up
(25:17):
through Google search and youthink Facebook didn't work.
What you're going to notice isif, all of a sudden, you go
through your data and you seethis trend where, all of a
sudden, clicks start to go up,you want to go backwards,
sometimes a couple of days,maybe even a week or two, to see
when the impressions went up,because you'll notice, as you
(25:37):
increase your impressions,clicks will start to climb, but
it's not going to happen rightaway.
There's going to be a delay,that time to conversion, because
, remember, on Facebook you'rebuilding awareness, so that's
what's important to remember.
And then what you want is youcan actually dig into the
details and you can find, oh myGod, this day, three weeks ago,
(26:04):
impressions were up and it ledto a lot more new patients, like
two to three weeks later.
So dig into that day and findout what ads were running, what
specific campaign was running,because that's where the gold is
.
And now you found out a littlesecret, which is you want to be
looking at those impressions.
You want to ignore the clicks.
Yes, I know clicks areimportant, but it's impressions
that matter, because that'sactually what you're buying.
(26:26):
And once you find out somethingthat's working, now you want to
go back and you want to repeatit and do it again.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Love it.
It's a very refreshingperspective because the magic
word in digital marketing isleads and it drives everyone
nuts.
It drives the marketers nuts.
It drives the chiropractorsnuts, because that's all they
look at and that's the winningand determining factor of that.
And then you have two ways tolook at leads.
One I'm getting a lot of leadsgiving me a lot of cracks at the
bat.
These are those chiropractorsthat play the baseball analogies
Like I like that, I'm like, butthat's expensive.
And then there's the other oneswho are like I get bad leads
(27:03):
and I'm like, okay, well, we gottwo distinct problems here on
those.
So I love the impressionsbecause you got to look back and
say is the money we're spendingactually getting out there, our
eyeballs on the ads first, andif not, you can tweak it.
You can be like, okay, we'regoing to up our Google ad spend
and decrease our Facebook adspend because it looks like
we're getting more impressionson Google or whatever it may be.
So that's just a great thing,because I feel like I always get
(27:26):
into the leads, discussionswith everyone and how to get a
lead and how to convert a leadmore of the practice management
type stuff probably theaftermath of what you do for
people is, after you get them inthe door, how to keep them or
get them on the phone, how toget them in.
That's where I help thosepeople.
So that's nice.
I like this.
This is actually marketing,which is great.
Go figure, jeff's the expert,um, so that's awesome.
(27:48):
This is great stuff.
So chiropractors definitelyneed to.
Now, how do you trust?
Like, how do you trust?
I find a lot of people arecycling through a lot of digital
markers, like they'll stickwith them for an average two and
a half months and then theywant out.
So the digital markers havecaught on to this.
They got rid of their 12 monthcontracts because no one was
signing up with them and they'reall doing the have to start to
think about when you look atyour practice you know what is
(28:18):
it made up of.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
You know most people typically come in.
We'd love for people to say Ineed to get healthy, I'm going
to go and spend three weeks anddo research and and find the
right chiropractor for me to goto, but that's not how it
happens.
You know.
The way it happens is someonepulls their back out.
You know they're stuck onNSAIDs for about three weeks and
(28:40):
realize those don't work andfinally they're in real bad
distress and they end up comingin.
And so you have to set yourselfup as a chiropractor for
success for those situations andthe way to do that.
There's two ways to do that.
One is the philosophy is well,those people are typing in back
pain chiropractors in my area.
(29:01):
You're right, those are peoplethat are actually in need.
They're hunting and searchingright now, but those are the
types of patients that are goingto come in and as soon as their
condition and pain is gone,they're going to be gone.
So you're going to have themfor maybe a week to two weeks.
What you're really interested inis building up more of a
presence within your communityand you want to go more up
(29:25):
funnel.
That's why I'm talking aboutoccasional CTV ads, facebook ads
and keeping that always on,because what will happen is when
this person has an incident andthey're hurting, they'll
remember your name, they'll comein to see you and now you've
got this always on marketingmachine.
(29:45):
That's there.
That's more up funnel andyou're educating as well with
these ads.
That's the other thing.
These ads aren't just sayingback pain and you're educating
as well with these ads.
That's the other thing.
These ads aren't just sayingback pain.
These ads are talking aboutlearn, you know the true cause
behind back pain, and maybe itlinks to a video with you
talking about you know back painand the whole iceberg type
analogy and stuff like thatEducating people.
(30:06):
Because what you want to beable to do is educate people so
that when they do have anincident and they come in, they
understand they actually want tofix the problem versus just get
rid of the pain.
So that's the other key is that, having that always on
marketing, you can actually getpeople into your practice sooner
.
Or, when they have somethingthat actually is an incident
that brings them in, theyunderstand the need to actually
(30:27):
fix things because you've beeneducating them for several
months or a year as they've beeninteracting with your marketing
activity.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Great, yeah, great tips.
That's great.
Those are my one, two, threepunches that I wanted to see if
you could answer, and you didgreat with that.
Now Provalytics, then tell me alittle bit about how are you
working with small businesseslike this.
I know you said you help majorbusinesses.
Do you have room for this?
How could you help achiropractor?
Would you just help consult andask some of their questions?
How do they get in touch withyou?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Well, the way they're getting in touch with me is
they could go to provoliticscomand there's a couple of things
on there that I think would bebeneficial is that there's been
a lot of dynamic shifts thathave occurred in the digital
advertising industry,specifically around privacy and
all of these changes in terms ofhow people are tracked across
(31:19):
the web and everything.
We put together a course it's afree course, an attribution
certification course.
It's about hour and a half, twohours.
It gives chiropractors thatwant to lean in, understand how
things are actually measured andstuff, a really strong
foundation on the past, thepresent and what we see as the
(31:40):
future of this.
We typically don't work withsmall businesses.
Most of our clients arespending upwards of $10 million
or more per year.
We do work with some largergroup practices that an
aggregator spending more,without a doubt.
But I think just the attributioncertification and the
discussion that we had here interms of focusing on impressions
(32:03):
, understanding that you alwaysneed to be always on and, most
importantly, to understand thatyou know your role as a
chiropractor in a community isyou're you're a vital member of
that community and you know the.
The techniques that you're doingin your practice have a massive
impact on the community'shealth as a whole, not just the
(32:24):
people who you're taking care of, but their friends and family.
And I would, I would, I would, Iwould challenge every doctor
out there who's listening tothis to get out into the
community and, you know, besidesasking for referrals anytime
there's a group where you'rewilling to have a speaker stand
up and talk about trends inhealth care and how the natural
(32:45):
approach.
I think we're on this paradigmshift of what's happening right
now in the U S of peopleunderstanding that drugs are
really not the right way to go.
It's a huge opportunity forchiropractors to be acknowledged
as the the natural caretakersof the community with the best
(33:05):
and natural approach, uh, totaking care of ourselves, uh.
So I would challengechiropractors to get out in the
community talk.
You know there's always therotaries and things like that,
but there's, there's places youcan go into the school and talk
to the school and lots of thingslike that, and that is, in and
of itself, just putting yourselfout there, I think, is the best
(33:25):
marketing that you can do ontop of the paid marketing
activities.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Home run, home run.
Awesome, that's so great.
Yeah, Get out there.
I mean, we've got to bring thisstuff back.
Covid was a sociology shift forsociety.
For sure, we all went andhibernated like never before.
But I feel it's safe to say in2024, I started to say this I'm
like I think we're back.
I think I think we're back tonormalcy.
(33:52):
I mean, you can go to a movie,you can do this stuff, and if
California is doing it, I thinkwe're back.
I think we can officially saywe're back.
So that's, that's where we'reat there.
So get back out there, back intothe schools, back into the
lunch and learns, back into thestress talks at big corporations
around you.
Back be the person that youknow does all this stuff.
That's the root to this.
And then I'm going to go checkout provoliticscom and take that
(34:15):
course, because there's neverany rock you can't unturn and
learn something.
So I'm all about that too, tohelp more people.
Thanks for your time and um.
And then provoliticscom toreach out to you if they have
any specific questions.
Absolutely, yeah, it'd be mypleasure to chat with any doctor
.
That's awesome.
Hey everyone, welcome to another podcast of Marketing
101 for chiropractors.
Very cool guest this week wegot formerly Dr Jeff Greenfield.
I guess you're always Dr JeffGreenfield, but Jeff Greenfield
is with Provolytics Marketingand he's got some great stuff
about the digital world.
Thanks for being here, man.
Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's my pleasure, dr Enrico, excited to be here today
.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, that's great.
Let's go right into your story,because in the green room you
told me a little bit about that.
And then he's like oh, by theway, I used to be a chiropractor
.
I'm like, wow, holy smokes,this is amazing.
So tell us how that all began,how you got into it and then,
more importantly, how did youget out a young kid?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I injured my back and so I started seeing
chiropractors in high school andI did magic as a kid, and
especially close-up magic cardsand coins, and so I saw this
great opportunity to kind ofcombine those two things
(00:59):
together and I went to LACC in1985, graduated December of 88.
Lacc is now Southern CaliforniaUniversity of Health Sciences
in Whittier.
Moved back from Los Angeles tothe East Coast, opened up a
practice in my house and builtthat.
(01:20):
I thought that was it.
That's all I was going to do.
I had an open room and wasseeing upwards a little over 100
patients a day, working Monday,wednesday, friday full days and
Tuesdays half days.
I was going to be in my 90s, inthe middle of doing an
(01:43):
adjustment and die.
That's what I thought my lifewas going to be like.
And then several years intopractice I was in a car accident
and my elbow got jammed and myulnar nerve on my left arm my
left hand, which is dominant wascrushed and I had severe pain,
(02:04):
couldn't adjust anyone anymoreand had to go for a
decompression surgery that endedup failing.
So I had doctors.
I hired doctors to work for meand quickly kind of migrated my
practice over to be more of amultidisciplinary practice.
But I went from very quicklyjust myself and my wife working
(02:26):
with a couple of part timers, tome running a show with about 65
employees, and I absolutelyhated it.
Because I got into chiropracticbecause I wanted to help people
and I used to always describeit where every day I heard thank
you, dr Jeff, thank you, drJeff.
And then it went from that veryquickly to employees
(02:47):
complaining about days off andall these types of things, and I
was young at the time and Iwasn't prepared for it.
So I kind of dropped out, I gotrid of the practice and didn't
know what I was going to do.
And so I decided to go back onthe road and do magic, because
throughout chiropractic collegeI had my magic had elevated to a
(03:11):
level where I was working atthe magic castle in Hollywood.
So I was a professionalmagician and there was an
opportunity for me to go andtour colleges around the country
.
This is like mid nineties, 95,1995.
Around the country this is likemid-90s, 1995.
There was this new thing calledthe internet.
I knew I needed a website, so Ihired a local company to make
(03:32):
me a website, which ended upbeing a big fail.
All they did was.
They bought me a domain namewhich was magic-magiccom.
You can actually still see iton archiveorg.
And it was about a week beforethis big conference I was going
to and the website wasn't liveand I had to figure out how to
make it.
So I bought this program calledMicrosoft Front Page, spent the
(03:57):
entire weekend in the basement.
By the end of the weekend I hada website, which was great.
So, mission accomplished.
I go to these conferences, Iget booked at colleges, but my
website I'm now updating itmyself because I had built the
thing Before I knew it.
Other people were asking mewho's your webmaster?
I'm like, well, I don't reallyhave a webmaster, I'm taking
care of it myself.
And they're like well, can youhelp me?
(04:17):
I'm like, yeah, I can, but youknow, I'm really on this journey
to find out what I want to donext.
And I tell them my whole story,which I pretty much set up to
this point.
And so I was on the road forabout a year and a half and
before.
By that time I had a wholeseries of consulting clients
that I was helping with branding, with website development, and
so I was now back home livingthe life of every entrepreneur,
(04:40):
working in my unheated basementand building up my consulting
practice.
And then the next thing thatpeople were asking for once they
had a new website and theyliked how things were said about
them online is I want to get tothe top of the search engines.
How do I get to the top of thesearch engines?
So I worked with a developeroverseas and we built up this
(05:01):
one of the first SaaS SEOplatforms called Position
Solutions.
That was an automated way toget whatever you were selling to
the top of the search engines.
Now this is pre-Google.
This is like 97, 98.
But it was pretty cool.
We got a lot of pickup with theemerging real estate industry
(05:23):
and with the emerging legalspace online.
But then I was getting bored.
If you remember, it was only acouple of years before this.
I was in practice with patientsevery day, and then I was on
stage four days a week atcolleges and now I'm in my
basement.
So I reached out to friends inthe entertainment business and
found out about this new worldcalled product placement, which
(05:46):
was getting stuff into moviesand television.
I thought that sounded cool, soI knew nothing about the
business.
I did a little bit of researchand then I used my tool set of
being at the top of the searchengines to make myself into an
expert and over the course ofseveral months I built a new
business in product placementand then, as that started to
(06:07):
grow, we would have clients thatwould ask hey, I want so-and-so
to say my product name more, orI want it to be more used in
the film, and I'm like well, inorder to do that, you have to
pay the production.
That's called brandedentertainment and that actually
led to several clients one inthe pharmaceutical industry for
(06:27):
a sister product to Botox.
We created a faux reality TVshow for them.
And then I created a programfor Verizon Wireless called how
Sweet the Sound to increasetheir market share in the
African-American community.
That's actually still runningto this day.
And then I had a client in theweight loss industry and doing
(06:48):
some work for them on this newplatform called YouTube, and
they had questions about theirdigital marketing.
They were spending asignificant amount of money, but
the CEO was like the numbersdon't really add up.
And I looked at the numbers andhe was right they didn't add up
.
And I looked at the numbers andhe was right, they didn't add
up.
And he asked me to take it overNow.
I didn't know anything aboutrunning ad campaigns, so I hired
(07:10):
some of the best people outthere that I knew in the country
, and every week they startedcoming to me with all of these
big issues that they wererunning into.
The most common one was thatfor every package of weight loss
stuff that they sold, they hadfive affiliates trying to claim
credit for it.
So what that meant is thecompany was paying out five
(07:32):
commissions for every sale.
So that seemed to me that thereshould be some technology that
could correct for this, and Ihad a team that was already
working on a new project for me,and so I pulled some of the
people off and started buildingout what became one of the first
attribution platforms out there, and this is like late 2007,
(07:52):
early 2008.
And that grew into one of thetop enterprise multi-touch
attribution platforms called C3Metrics.
And at this point I was older, alittle bit wiser, and I grew
that company to about 55employees and exited there in
2019, right before the pandemicthinking I would never go back
(08:15):
to a business that dealt withnumbers and measurement.
It wasn't sexy for me.
And then, all of a sudden, inthe last couple of of years,
there were all these crazychanges in the digital world,
all revolving around privacy,and the techniques that I had
used to build this otherplatform were no longer going to
work, and so it seemed to methat there was another
(08:37):
opportunity to hop back intothis crazy world of measurement
and help out some of my formerclients, and that led to the
growth of Provalytics.
So as I look back across mycareer, I mean this seems like a
real zigzag path, if you will,of career choices, but what I
see with chiropractic is thatyou know, our job as
(09:00):
chiropractors is to help, youknow, relieve stress on the
nervous system, help people livebetter, healthier lives.
I see magic as a way for peopleto kind of think outside the
box, help with their stressreduction, although some people
do get very stressed out aboutmagic, they don't understand it,
and where I'm at right now, I'msolving one of the biggest
(09:24):
problems that marketers arehaving these days, and marketers
are expected to be what we calldata driven.
They're supposed to understandnumbers, but marketers don't
understand anything aboutnumbers.
That's what accountants are for, and so I'm helping them
relieve their stress of havingto deal with the numbers.
So I'm still in the samebusiness, if you will, just from
(09:45):
a different angle.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Awesome, that's cool.
And now we're here.
That is so great.
So your insight is impeccableto the entire age of digital.
I mean it's great you look likeyou're 29, but whatever, okay,
awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
That's great, all the good living and getting
adjusted.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
still, there you go.
Awesome, so yeah, so that'sgreat.
So now you help I mean wetalked about this in the green
room you help multi-milliondollar companies do their
advertising.
When it comes down to the smallbusinesses, which is healthcare
providers and all thoserestaurants, all those small
businesses is where do you seedigital fitting in for their
advertising?
A lot of chiropractors dabblewith it or they hire digital
(10:26):
marketers that say they can helpsmall businesses like them go
into the digital field.
But when we say digital,everyone always thinks Facebook
ads.
But what does that reallyencompass with digital marketing
?
What should a chiropractorencompass for their business?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, I mean chiropractors need to kind of
lean in on this.
You know, I know it's toughbecause you know you go to
school to take care of peopleand you don't really, really
want to know about this stuff.
But one of the things that Ilearned very early on being a
solo practitioner is that thethings that I would trust people
where I was spending asignificant sum of my money on
(11:01):
that I didn't understand.
Sometimes it's like a blackhole to me.
That's where I always wouldlose money because I didn't
understand things.
And there's always a tendencywhen you're a business owner to
say I don't like doing that, Idon't understand it, I'm going
to hire someone to take care ofit, but then you don't know if
(11:22):
you're being taken advantage of.
You don't really understand it.
The nice thing about marketingtoday, versus when I first got
into practice, there was nodigital marketing.
It was radio, print coupons andtelevision and there was no
place to research about thatstuff.
It was really like buying adiamond.
You had to completely trustwhat was going on.
(11:43):
Digital marketing and thefundamentals behind it are
simply like a free course away.
So what I encourage doctors todo is to I know you don't want
to spend a weekend or a nightdoing it, but it's a much better
investment than spending timewatching the new, you know Night
(12:03):
Agent season two on Netflix.
It's a much better use of yourtime.
But what you want, what youhave to understand, is you need
to get your message out there,to where people are spending
their time, and there'sdifferent places where people
are based upon their demographicand their age.
If you're targeting folks inyour community that are 40 and
(12:25):
above, you've got to be on meta.
That would be Facebook andInstagram.
If you're a youngerpractitioner and you want to
target folks in your communitythat are in their 20s and a
little bit younger, I'd say youhave to be on TikTok.
Snapchat is like a small littlewindow of folks in their upper
20s early 30s, but folks youngerthan that are on TikTok.
(12:47):
So you need to be there and youkind of have to be there and
you have to understand how itworks, and I think part of it
has to do with the fundamentalsof marketing.
So marketing, the way marketingworks, is you spend dollars,
they buy eyeballs, you're tryingto get attention and those
eyeballs and marketing speak arecalled impressions, and the job
(13:12):
of those impressions or thoseeyeballs, is to get that
attention, build what we callawareness.
And when awareness is builtenough, if you hit the right
people with the right message atthe right time, people will
come into your store, to borrowkind of the adage of the old
retailers back in the day.
And your store these days isyour office, but in particular,
(13:35):
it's really your website,because that's where you're
driving people to.
The problem that we deal withtoday, in today's digital
marketing, is that everyonejudges the success or failure of
campaigns based on how manyclicks they get.
Because the way we look at itis we say, well, someone can't
come into my store until theyclick.
So if I look at campaigns thatare driving clicks for me, then
(13:59):
that must be what's working, andso what we find is a lot of
marketers.
Today, the way that they viewthe world of marketing is you
invest dollars to get clicks andclicks drive new patients, so I
need to spend money on thingsthat drive clicks.
The reality of that is not trueat all, because what happens is
(14:20):
you spend dollars on Facebook.
People are scrolling throughFacebook.
They see an ad.
It builds awareness.
Then they go on to Instagram.
They maybe see another ad.
Maybe they click and come toyour website but they don't do
anything at all.
But let's say they don't click,they just see an ad and then
three days later, maybe a weeklater, they say wait a second,
(14:42):
what is it, dr John?
So and so back to health centerand they Google it and then
they click on your native linkor your page link there and then
they come to your website.
So based upon that, you wouldsay that your ads on Instagram
and Meta are not working.
But the reality is they builtthat awareness and drove people
(15:03):
to action.
So that's kind of understandinghow people use the internet.
You know they use Instagram andFacebook.
It's very similar to liketelevision.
They're kind of scrolling alonglooking for entertainment.
The ads are in between and itbuilds that awareness enough to
where, when they're ready foryou, they're going to come and
find you.
So it's important to understandthe value that what you're
(15:25):
buying is ad impressions andthose eyeballs.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Perfect, perfect.
Yes, you summed up probablyeverything I say on repeat every
single week.
So my coaching clients are likeI'm going to pause my marketing
.
I've been a chiropractor for 17years and I don't think I've
ever paused my marketing.
That makes zero sense to me.
My dad's an Italian immigrantentrepreneur, self-made, barely
(15:52):
spoke English, construction, allthis stuff, and the one thing I
knew he did was either go doorto door and hand out flyers or
have that yellow page ad.
Constantly he bitched aboutthat yellow page ad and how much
it cost, but always he wouldnever not be marketing and I
think that was ingrained in me.
(16:12):
And so in current, I'm like manthat's a nice luxury that you
can pause your marketing.
What the F are you doing inyour practice?
How is this working?
So I'm like man that's a niceluxury that you can pause your
marketing.
What the F are you doing inyour practice?
Like, how is this working, like?
So I'm always confused.
And then three months laterthey're like we need to turn the
marketing back on.
I'm like I know, why'd you stop?
It's because they really don'thave an understanding and, like
you said, it still is a bigblack hole for most
(16:35):
chiropractors because we're not.
We're trained zero in school onmarketing and many of us didn't
get a marketing major beforegoing to chiropractic.
You, you know, in the eighties,when you graduate, you probably
didn't have the theprerequisites that we have in
the next generation to get it.
I'm not sure I don't know ifyou needed a bachelor's in the
eighties to get it.
Oh, you did, okay, cause I,danny Drew and some other guys
(16:57):
mentored me and they were like Igot into two years after high
school.
I'm like, wow, okay, differenttime, and that was like in the
60s.
So that black hole that youexplained is so perfect because
we really don't understand it.
But maybe dive deep into somethings that chiropractors should
always be doing.
And it's not giving yourmarketing company $6,000 a month
every month.
(17:17):
That's not what we're saying.
And it's not giving yourmarketing company $6,000 a month
every month.
That's not what we're saying.
We're saying what are the A, bsand Cs of marketing that we
should be doing every singlemonth, week, day?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Well, I'll first address what you said about
doctors wanting to turn offtheir marketing Huge mistake.
The advantage that we have asbusiness owners is that we can
look to see what these largecompanies have done in the past
and what the impact has beenfrom them, and we don't have to
go that far back.
We go back to COVID.
(17:46):
During COVID, a lot of largecompanies paused their marketing
because they didn't know whatwas going on in the world and
they didn't follow the lessonsthat marketers had during the
times of previous wars.
During war time, a lot of bigbrands paused their marketing,
but some smart brands, theychanged their marketing activity
(18:07):
to, instead of saying, hey, buystuff, it was more like we
support you, we support America,we support the troops.
Those brands that lean in withsupportive messages versus
pausing marketing, they gainmarket share.
The ones who turned off theirmarketing in previous wars and
during COVID, they lostsignificant market share and
(18:29):
have never gotten it back.
So that's the first thing tounderstand is that you want to
always be marketing.
I kind of like that line fromthe movie ABC, alec Baldwin,
alec Baldwin.
But one of the things that youalways want to be doing number
one is asking for referrals.
(18:49):
That's number one that I stillsee to this day, that most
chiropractors don't want to askfor a referral.
They're afraid to ask for areferral.
When I was in practice, the waythat I was taught to ask for a
referral they're afraid to askfor a referral.
When I was in practice, the waythat I was taught to ask for a
referral is I would say hey, doyou?
You know you'd have aconversation, you get to know
your patients and yeah, I've gotthis friend, jennifer, in my
(19:11):
office and you know she iscomplaining about headaches and
it's just amazing how well I'mdoing.
And so the tendency is to say,hey, give her my card.
But then the patient will givethem the card and you'll never
hear from Jennifer.
So I would always say do youwant to help me?
Help Jennifer?
And patient be like yeah, ofcourse, say you know, give her
(19:32):
my card and ask her if it's okayfor me to give her a call.
And he would ask hey, you knowI spoke to my chiropractor.
He wanted to know is it okay ifhe calls you?
And of course Jennifer would sayyeah of course, and I have a
phone call with her and justhave a quick consult over the
phone just to see what was goingon and invite her to come into
the office.
So that was great.
That was a great way for me toask for referrals, cause the
(19:55):
problem with referrals is thatsometimes you know, your patient
field doesn't, doesn't feelsuccessful if they're unable to
get someone to come in.
But this way it kind of putsthe onus on the person who's
having the problem to say yay ornay to having a conversation
with you.
So that would be the firstthing is always be doing that.
The second thing is always lookfor ways to have your, your
(20:18):
face and your practice out there.
Now, what's really cool is,because of what's happened in
marketing today, is that for alot of solo practitioners you
would never think about the ideaof advertising on television.
That would be way too muchmoney.
You know my marketing budget islike, let's say, two grand a
month.
There's no way I can afford toadvertise on TV.
(20:40):
Well, now, with digitizedtelevision, which is called CTV,
connected TV, that's where youwant to be, because most people
in your community are probablyhave cut the cord.
They're not watching lineartelevision, they're watching
Amazon Prime, they're watchingNetflix or watching Paramount
all these streaming services andfor very little money you could
(21:04):
actually advertise on TV.
So they're sitting down aboutready to watch a movie and an ad
comes up for your practice.
That elevates you to a levelthat's going to be above anyone
else in your community, becauseeven though it's CTV and
streaming, it's still television, it's still the big screen in
the house.
So that's a huge thing.
That's number one.
Number two you want to makecertain that you're active on
(21:28):
all of the social platforms, andwhat I mean by that is wherever
your patients are.
If most of your patients areabove the age of 40, you need to
have an active Facebook page.
You need to have either hiresomeone page.
You need to have either hiresomeone, get your partner to
help you do it, but have that upto date at least several times
a week.
Be posting.
You don't need blog posts onyour website.
(21:48):
Those are not as important, butyou need to be updating your
Facebook page.
I know for our family when we goto check out a restaurant,
let's say, in our community, Igo and I search on Google
because that's what I've alwaysused to check hours.
My wife goes to Facebook.
Her search engine of choice isFacebook because she knows it's
(22:10):
always up to date.
And if it's not up to date,she's like what are they doing?
They should be up to date withthis stuff.
This is crazy.
So you have to get into themindset.
But so you want to have all ofthat stuff loaded, be up to date
with this stuff.
This is crazy.
So you have to get into themindset.
But so you want to have all ofthat stuff loaded and up to date
.
And then, in terms of your paidmarketing, you want to make
certain that you're runningawareness type ads on Facebook.
(22:31):
You want to make certain thatyou've got some brand search so
that when someone types in yourname into Google, that you show
up.
Now if you have a name wheresomeone types in your name and
you're the only thing that showsup, then you don't need to be
paying for those ads.
But if you've got someone inyour community who has a similar
(22:51):
sounding name or you're in avery competitive area, you're
going to have to pay to be therein those ads.
And then other places likeTikTok and stuff like that.
It really depends on thedemographics of your practice
and who you're trying to goafter.
Those would be my kind of myalways on recommendations it's
great, great recommendations forsure.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Uh yeah, and I guess I repeat that to everyone
they're being scared to ask forreferrals.
I think that's the bestmarketing you could possibly do.
It's the only the cheapest,it's free, um, and it it brings
in the best clients.
I mean, when somebody thinksabout somebody else that's going
to be your ideal client, nottrying to find them on facebook,
so that is great stuff there.
So when?
(23:31):
So now?
So now now, like you said, nowthere's all the hats we have to
wear.
Like, I'm the CEO of multipleclinics, so, and I got multiple
associates and I'm in that realm, which is different, and you
definitely have to delegate thisstuff.
If you're in that realm, oreven if you own your own clinic
and you do everything in there,you're going to have to delegate
this part because you justwon't be able to keep up.
What's your best advice forthat?
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Well, the best advice for that?
When it comes to marketing, youdefinitely want to have someone
else turning the dials.
You don't want to be in thereworking at yourself, because
you'll drive yourself absolutelycrazy.
But what you want to be able todo is look at a report at the
end of a month to be able to seeand look at trends that are
going on.
Typically, the types of reportsthat you'll get is you'll get a
(24:14):
report that shows you how manyclicks you had, how much you
paid your cost per click, andthen you'll come up with some
sort of correlation becauseyou'll say okay, well, we had
this number of new patient phonecalls, we had this number of
form fills on the website, soyou could say the cost for a
potential new patient and thecost per new patient.
(24:34):
But that report is missing somedata, and what you want is you
don't want just a monthly total,you want an ongoing, daily
count of all of that stuff.
You want it on a big Googlesheet that you can always look
at, but you want the firstcolumn after date to be
(24:56):
impressions, because what youwant to know is, from all the
different places that you'readvertising, what was your
potential reach, meaning, howmany potential people did you
actually reach the reason forthat?
Going back to that example wetalked about before, where
someone sees your ad on Facebookand then they just show up
(25:17):
through Google search and youthink Facebook didn't work.
What you're going to notice isif, all of a sudden, you go
through your data and you seethis trend where, all of a
sudden, clicks start to go up,you want to go backwards,
sometimes a couple of days,maybe even a week or two, to see
when the impressions went up,because you'll notice, as you
(25:37):
increase your impressions,clicks will start to climb, but
it's not going to happen rightaway.
There's going to be a delay,that time to conversion, because
, remember, on Facebook you'rebuilding awareness, so that's
what's important to remember.
And then what you want is youcan actually dig into the
details and you can find, oh myGod, this day, three weeks ago,
(26:04):
impressions were up and it ledto a lot more new patients, like
two to three weeks later.
So dig into that day and findout what ads were running, what
specific campaign was running,because that's where the gold is
.
And now you found out a littlesecret, which is you want to be
looking at those impressions.
You want to ignore the clicks.
Yes, I know clicks areimportant, but it's impressions
that matter, because that'sactually what you're buying.
(26:26):
And once you find out somethingthat's working, now you want to
go back and you want to repeatit and do it again.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Love it.
It's a very refreshingperspective because the magic
word in digital marketing isleads and it drives everyone
nuts.
It drives the marketers nuts.
It drives the chiropractorsnuts, because that's all they
look at and that's the winningand determining factor of that.
And then you have two ways tolook at leads.
One I'm getting a lot of leadsgiving me a lot of cracks at the
bat.
These are those chiropractorsthat play the baseball analogies
Like I like that, I'm like, butthat's expensive.
And then there's the other oneswho are like I get bad leads
(27:03):
and I'm like, okay, well, we gottwo distinct problems here on
those.
So I love the impressionsbecause you got to look back and
say is the money we're spendingactually getting out there, our
eyeballs on the ads first, andif not, you can tweak it.
You can be like, okay, we'regoing to up our Google ad spend
and decrease our Facebook adspend because it looks like
we're getting more impressionson Google or whatever it may be.
So that's just a great thing,because I feel like I always get
(27:26):
into the leads, discussionswith everyone and how to get a
lead and how to convert a leadmore of the practice management
type stuff probably theaftermath of what you do for
people is, after you get them inthe door, how to keep them or
get them on the phone, how toget them in.
That's where I help thosepeople.
So that's nice.
I like this.
This is actually marketing,which is great.
Go figure, jeff's the expert,um, so that's awesome.
(27:48):
This is great stuff.
So chiropractors definitelyneed to.
Now, how do you trust?
Like, how do you trust?
I find a lot of people arecycling through a lot of digital
markers, like they'll stickwith them for an average two and
a half months and then theywant out.
So the digital markers havecaught on to this.
They got rid of their 12 monthcontracts because no one was
signing up with them and they'reall doing the have to start to
think about when you look atyour practice you know what is
(28:18):
it made up of.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
You know most people typically come in.
We'd love for people to say Ineed to get healthy, I'm going
to go and spend three weeks anddo research and and find the
right chiropractor for me to goto, but that's not how it
happens.
You know.
The way it happens is someonepulls their back out.
You know they're stuck onNSAIDs for about three weeks and
(28:40):
realize those don't work andfinally they're in real bad
distress and they end up comingin.
And so you have to set yourselfup as a chiropractor for
success for those situations andthe way to do that.
There's two ways to do that.
One is the philosophy is well,those people are typing in back
pain chiropractors in my area.
(29:01):
You're right, those are peoplethat are actually in need.
They're hunting and searchingright now, but those are the
types of patients that are goingto come in and as soon as their
condition and pain is gone,they're going to be gone.
So you're going to have themfor maybe a week to two weeks.
What you're really interested inis building up more of a
presence within your communityand you want to go more up
(29:25):
funnel.
That's why I'm talking aboutoccasional CTV ads, facebook ads
and keeping that always on,because what will happen is when
this person has an incident andthey're hurting, they'll
remember your name, they'll comein to see you and now you've
got this always on marketingmachine.
(29:45):
That's there.
That's more up funnel andyou're educating as well with
these ads.
That's the other thing.
These ads aren't just sayingback pain and you're educating
as well with these ads.
That's the other thing.
These ads aren't just sayingback pain.
These ads are talking aboutlearn, you know the true cause
behind back pain, and maybe itlinks to a video with you
talking about you know back painand the whole iceberg type
analogy and stuff like thatEducating people.
(30:06):
Because what you want to beable to do is educate people so
that when they do have anincident and they come in, they
understand they actually want tofix the problem versus just get
rid of the pain.
So that's the other key is that, having that always on
marketing, you can actually getpeople into your practice sooner
.
Or, when they have somethingthat actually is an incident
that brings them in, theyunderstand the need to actually
(30:27):
fix things because you've beeneducating them for several
months or a year as they've beeninteracting with your marketing
activity.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Great, yeah, great tips.
That's great.
Those are my one, two, threepunches that I wanted to see if
you could answer, and you didgreat with that.
Now Provalytics, then tell me alittle bit about how are you
working with small businesseslike this.
I know you said you help majorbusinesses.
Do you have room for this?
How could you help achiropractor?
Would you just help consult andask some of their questions?
How do they get in touch withyou?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Well, the way they're getting in touch with me is
they could go to provoliticscomand there's a couple of things
on there that I think would bebeneficial is that there's been
a lot of dynamic shifts thathave occurred in the digital
advertising industry,specifically around privacy and
all of these changes in terms ofhow people are tracked across
(31:19):
the web and everything.
We put together a course it's afree course, an attribution
certification course.
It's about hour and a half, twohours.
It gives chiropractors thatwant to lean in, understand how
things are actually measured andstuff, a really strong
foundation on the past, thepresent and what we see as the
(31:40):
future of this.
We typically don't work withsmall businesses.
Most of our clients arespending upwards of $10 million
or more per year.
We do work with some largergroup practices that an
aggregator spending more,without a doubt.
But I think just the attributioncertification and the
discussion that we had here interms of focusing on impressions
(32:03):
, understanding that you alwaysneed to be always on and, most
importantly, to understand thatyou know your role as a
chiropractor in a community isyou're you're a vital member of
that community and you know the.
The techniques that you're doingin your practice have a massive
impact on the community'shealth as a whole, not just the
(32:24):
people who you're taking care of, but their friends and family.
And I would, I would, I would, Iwould challenge every doctor
out there who's listening tothis to get out into the
community and, you know, besidesasking for referrals anytime
there's a group where you'rewilling to have a speaker stand
up and talk about trends inhealth care and how the natural
(32:45):
approach.
I think we're on this paradigmshift of what's happening right
now in the U S of peopleunderstanding that drugs are
really not the right way to go.
It's a huge opportunity forchiropractors to be acknowledged
as the the natural caretakersof the community with the best
(33:05):
and natural approach, uh, totaking care of ourselves, uh.
So I would challengechiropractors to get out in the
community talk.
You know there's always therotaries and things like that,
but there's, there's places youcan go into the school and talk
to the school and lots of thingslike that, and that is, in and
of itself, just putting yourselfout there, I think, is the best
(33:25):
marketing that you can do ontop of the paid marketing
activities.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Home run, home run.
Awesome, that's so great.
Yeah, Get out there.
I mean, we've got to bring thisstuff back.
Covid was a sociology shift forsociety.
For sure, we all went andhibernated like never before.
But I feel it's safe to say in2024, I started to say this I'm
like I think we're back.
I think I think we're back tonormalcy.
(33:52):
I mean, you can go to a movie,you can do this stuff, and if
California is doing it, I thinkwe're back.
I think we can officially saywe're back.
So that's, that's where we'reat there.
So get back out there, back intothe schools, back into the
lunch and learns, back into thestress talks at big corporations
around you.
Back be the person that youknow does all this stuff.
That's the root to this.
And then I'm going to go checkout provoliticscom and take that
(34:15):
course, because there's neverany rock you can't unturn and
learn something.
So I'm all about that too, tohelp more people.
Thanks for your time and um.
And then provoliticscom toreach out to you if they have
any specific questions.
Absolutely, yeah, it'd be mypleasure to chat with any doctor
.
That's awesome.
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