February 11, 2025 • 20 mins
Can understanding love languages actually harm your relationship? Nate shares a remarkable personal experiment with his wife that uncovers some surprising insights into how we express and perceive love. While the idea of identifying your partner's love language is popular, we discuss the potential pitfalls of using it as a benchmark or a tool for assigning blame. When expectations aren't met, relationships can suffer from resentment and even infidelity.
The 5 Love Language framework, while initially helpful, should not become a rigid scorecard for evaluating success. We caution against forming covert contracts based on these principles, which can lead to unfulfilled expectations and relationship breakdowns. Instead, we encourage embracing love languages as a starting block for personal growth and genuine connection.
Our discussion challenges the popular notion of the Five Love Languages, exploring how they can inadvertently harm relationships instead of fostering genuine connection. We talk about the dangers of covert contracts and high expectations, urging listeners to adopt a more empathetic understanding of their partner's needs.
• Examining the widespread influence of the Five Love Languages
• Personal experiences illustrating the concept's potential pitfalls
• The emergence of covert contracts in relationships
• The detrimental effects of scorekeeping in love language expressions
• Advocating empathy and deeper understanding through relational complexity
• Encouraging listeners to thoughtfully use love languages for growth
• Promoting love as a dynamic exchange rather than fixed expectations
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Secrets of Happily Ever
After podcast.
I'm your host, monica Tanner,my co-host, nate Bagley, and we
loved this last week justletting Nate take away the topic
and I just kind of spun off ofwhatever he started.
So I barely know what he'stalking about on this one, so
I'm going to let him introducewhat we're talking about today.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Awesome.
I like throwing the curveballs,I like coming up with an idea
just to see what pops up for you.
I have a theory.
I'm pretty confident that themost popular relationship book
ever written and some peoplewill be like the Bible the Bible
non-religious text.
(00:42):
Do you know what I mean?
It's a book specificallywritten for marriage.
I think that it does more harmthan good and the book is the
five love languages and thereare going to be people who hear
me say this.
That will be like they're goingto.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
If you can't handle it, shut it off.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
But if you're curious cause I'm curious- I'm not
going to knock, I don't think.
My hope is that this iscurveball enough that it helps
people understand how the fivelove languages might be hurting
their relationship and what theycan actually do about it.
Because the idea itself.
So let's start at the top.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I love this idea because we talk about the five
languages.
Five love languages all thetime and I don't necessarily
love them.
But, I do refer to them quiteoften.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I love the idea of understanding that different
people give and receive lovedifferently.
Yes, I love the concept that Iactually did an experiment early
on in my marriage where I waslike, okay, for one week I'm
going to get my wife flowers, soI'm going to give her a gift.
(01:49):
I'm going to clean the houseevery day and take care of her
least favorite chores, which wasdishes.
She hates doing dishes, so Ijust did the dishes without her
asking every single day and justmade sure that the kitchen was
always clean.
And then I wrote her littlelove notes for words of
affirmation, just to make herfeel good.
And then every day when I gothome from work, I would like pin
(02:11):
her up against the wall andgive her a passionate kiss, and
that was like my physical touchthing and I wanted to see at the
end of the week what sheresponded best to.
So at the end of the week itwas Sunday, we were talking and
I was like, hey, did you noticeanything different this week?
And she goes oh my gosh, thatkiss like every day.
I don't know where that camefrom, but you come home from
work and pin me up against thewall and give me this really
(02:32):
passionate kiss oh my gosh, Ilove that so much, thank you.
And I was like, yeah, noproblem.
And she's like, and I alsonoticed you've like really been
helping around the house a lotmore too, like it's been so nice
to just not have to worry aboutthe dishes.
That's been great.
I'm like, yeah, no problem.
And then I said, did you, didyou notice the flowers?
And she goes the what?
And I'm like the flowers on thekitchen table, she goes, oh my
(02:55):
gosh, how long have those beenthere?
And I'm like two or three days.
And she's like are you serious?
I completely missed them.
And I realized in that momentthat my wife really craved and
loved and appreciated physicaltouch and she also really
appreciated getting help,especially with acts of service,
things that she hated doing,but gifts not a big thing for
(03:17):
her.
And it was cool.
I put the five love language tothe test to see if my wife
would respond differently todifferent things and she
absolutely did.
So that concept I love.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
So you're using five love languages right now.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I love.
But here's the thing I thinkthe way that most people
implement the five lovelanguages in their marriage
actually does more harm thangood.
The idea and the principlesthemselves are great, but I
think what happens is you readthe book and then you go.
You identify your lovelanguages.
You go oh my gosh, my lovelanguage is words of affirmation
(03:56):
and acts of service.
That's all I need.
I just need my partner toappreciate me more and help me
out more, and then I'll be happy.
And then I'll be happy, andthen we, and then, like, once we
learn this concept and learnthis thing about ourselves,
learn what really sets us off ina good way, not sets us off in
(04:16):
a bad way, but learn what reallylike, gets us, gets us going
and makes us feel loved, then weweaponize it.
Then, every time something goeswrong in the relationship or
your partner lets you down, youuse your own love language as a
cudgel to beat your partner overthe head with.
Like you just never perform.
My love language is acts ofservice and you're not serving
(04:37):
enough.
My love language is words ofappreciation and you never tell
me anything Like.
You never tell me how much youlove me or how much good I'm
doing in the relationship.
And the love language hasbecome an expectation, it's a,
it's a, it's a covert contractthat if, if, now that my partner
knows these things about me, ifthey truly love me, they'll do
(04:58):
these things, and if they're notdoing those things it's because
they don't love me, they don'tcare.
And I think that that thoseideas, when the five love
languages are implemented inthat way or with that attitude,
can really be damaging.
And I see it happen a lot.
I see the five love languagesbecome the source of a lot of
(05:22):
resentment in marriage.
I see it become the source of alot of jealousy.
I've seen it become the sourceof infidelity, like, oh, I met
this coworker, this othersomebody from my past has
rekindled this relationship andstarted talking to me and all
they do is tell me howincredible I am and how amazing
(05:43):
I am.
And I never get that from mypartner and it just feels so
good to feel appreciated the wayI want to be appreciated.
Maybe I chose the wrong person.
Then these doubts start tocreep in.
I'm feeling all these positiveemotions from this other person.
So the five love languages ifyou believe that the only way
(06:03):
you can feel love or the onlyway your partner can correctly
express love is if they do it inaccordance to what matters most
to you.
I think that can be a reallydangerous belief to adopt.
What do you think?
What do you think about thispremise?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I'm kind of working it around in my mind.
So you're saying that it's fairto say that Gary Chapman nailed
like five different ways inwhich people express love and he
probably got pretty close tothe five ways.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, developing relational to realizing that the
way you experience love and orjust the world in general is not
the same the way that your,that your partner does.
And, yeah, I think the fivelove languages that he came up
with are like a really greatentry point into considering how
(06:56):
other people might feelexpression of love and
connection.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Okay.
So I just had like a light bulb, like okay, because, yeah, I
think it's interesting, becauseI think the five love languages
is kind of like like apersonality test, like it's true
that there are different peoplewho experience and give love in
different ways, which are whatthe five love languages are, but
it's just information aboutyour partner.
(07:24):
But I think what happens iswhat you're.
I think what you're kind oftrying to say is like if we put
too much stock in it, then it'sreally, it can be really
crippling Because like, forexample, like a disc assessment
or like a Myers-Briggs like a.
Myers-Briggs Right, and you'relike well, I can't do that
(07:46):
because I'm a blue, or you knowlike.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I'm a Pisces, whatever.
Whatever, however, you mightdefine yourself.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like you know, I can't be in arelationship with a gift giver.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Like I'm a physical touch person right.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
or or you know, like you, you can't expect me to do
that.
That's not my love language.
I don't know what to do there,right?
Or something like that.
Or you, you can't expect me tofunction without this thing
because that's my love language,right?
So it's just like yeah, I thinkyou can put a lot of just
unfair limitations on that, likeyou could.
(08:27):
Yeah, you can use theinformation for good, like, oh,
I know my my partner is a wordsof affirmation, so I can give
compliments freely.
That is something I can do toreally like support my partner,
right?
But at the same time, you canalso pigeonhole, like that's the
only way to show love to them.
(08:47):
Or, you know, if I want to hurtthem, I'm definitely not going
to do that thing?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, it can be a punishing thing.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, withholding, ooh.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, I see a lot of people who will um, this is a
frequent occurrence wherethey'll learn.
They learn each other's lovelanguage and one partner goes
out and goes okay, you're aphysical affection person, I'm
just going to give you lots ofaffection, lots of affection,
and they just they go out oftheir way to do that and that's
really awesome of them.
But they expect their partner toreciprocate with the same level
(09:20):
of energy and enthusiasm fortheir love language, which might
be acts of service.
And it's like well, I've, youknow, I keep giving you
affection and I initiated sex acouple of times and I keep
kissing, I kiss you and I'vebeen holding your hand and I've
given you back scratches and Isnuggle with you every night and
you're still not picking upyour laundry.
(09:41):
And it becomes kind of a covertcontract of like, well, I'm
doing this, why aren't you doingthis?
Am I the only one who caresabout the relationship?
Because there's thisexpectation that, now that you
have the information, now thatyou know how I feel loved, now
that you know what my lovelanguage is, you are going to
dedicate yourself to speakingthat language and that's the
(10:02):
only language that you will useto speak to me, and if you don't
, I'm going to interpret that asyou do not care.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah.
You do not love me there's alsolike setting the kind of the
limitations on it that, like myprimary love language is words
of affirmation, but that's notto say that and probably my
lowest is gifts.
Like I am terrible.
I'm a terrible gift giver and Idon't super recognize like
(10:29):
really great gifts, unless it'swhat.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
A vacation, but that's meaningful.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I do love vacations, but that's more quality time and
I, a quality time is up therefor me.
But yeah, like that doesn'tmean that if my husband brought
home flowers I wouldn't be likesuper stoked, like, oh my gosh,
like thank you for thinking ofme.
That's amazing, like I I canget all of the validation of
words of affirmation from him.
(10:56):
Bringing me home flowers meansjust as much as if it cause.
It's just like him saying youare such an amazing wife and I
was thinking about you today andI wanted to show you how much I
love you.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So, monica, my whole argument for this is that not
everybody can do that.
Not everybody can do that.
My whole argument is there arepeople out there and this is how
it can ruin your relationship.
There are people out there whoget the flowers and all they see
is you don't get me, you justdon't get me.
I don't care about the flowers,don't you get it?
(11:27):
I do not care about the flowers, I just want you to put your
clothes in the hamper.
I just want you to kiss me whenyou see me.
I just want you to say thankyou for doing the thing that I
did yesterday to make your lifea little bit better.
But all you're doing is justlike you just give me flowers
and think that that's going to,that's going to scratch the itch
and it just doesn't do it forme and they become resentful and
angry.
So I think it's awesome thatpeople I think it's aspirational
(11:50):
for people to get to the placethat you're at, where you can
get the gift of flowers and belike I feel loved and this is
wonderful.
Even though it's not my primarylove language.
My argument is that there are alot of people who read the five
love languages and they think,ah, I've unlocked the key to a
happy marriage.
If my partner does X, y and Z,if my partner has lots of sex
(12:14):
with me and helps me clean thehouse every day, or if my
partner spends a lot of timewatching my shows with me and
rubs my feet, if my partnergives me these, whatever the
recipe is for them, if mypartner does that, then I'm
going to be happy, and if I dothat for them, then they're
going to be happy.
So it all requires us for bothof us to do that thing for each
other and we'll be happy.
And then, when that doesn'thappen the way that they
(12:37):
envision it happening, theybecome resentful and angry and
it becomes more of a wedge thanit, than what it was intended to
be, which is like an insight tohelp you more than anything, I
think, help you love yourpartner more.
But I think what most peopleexperience it as is this is how
I want to be loved.
They experience a.
This is what I can get out ofit and not not so much.
(13:00):
This is what I can put into it.
It's more.
It's.
It's less about hey, I'mdiscovering something about my
partner and how I can be abetter partner to them.
It's more a wow, I finallyunderstood why I don't feel
loved by my partner.
If they just do this, then I'llbe happy in my relationship.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's it's.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
It's kind of small have you seen anything like this
though?
Like am I on?
Do you think I'm on track here?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Um, yeah, no, I mean I think I think you have a very
valid argument.
And what if I brought this intothe discussion, because you
hear a lot of times like a lovelanguage, like yeah, knowing
someone's love language is likecool, but like, have you ever
heard the saying like love isnot enough, like it's not enough
just to love somebody?
(13:44):
So if all you're doing isspeaking in their love language,
maybe that's not enough toreally have a healthy, dynamic,
passionate, intimaterelationship.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I agree.
I agree, I'm a firm believerthat.
Have you ever heard the phrasemilk before meat?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Hmm, yeah, sort of.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I think what it goes back.
Let me actually look at theorigins of that.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Milk before meat.
That makes me think of myJewish ancestry and keeping
things kosher.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
The phrase milk before meat comes from the Bible
.
It refers to the idea that somepeople are not yet ready for
meat and instead need milk orother nourishment.
So, like babies, you can't feedthem meat.
You have to.
You have to give them milkfirst, and then they grow into
it and then they can have meat.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
The idea is like we start with like simple, simple
foods that can be broken downeasily, and then we get to the
more complex ones, and the samething goes with like information
and knowledge, and and the ideahere is that I believe, is that
the love languages is a goodmilk principle.
It's like a good entry levelinto having empathy and getting
more understanding and moreprofound understanding of your
(14:59):
partner.
But it is not meat Like.
This is not.
This is not everything.
And a lot of people read thatbook because I think part of the
reason it is so approachable isit's an easy to grasp concept.
It's like oh, there's thesefive things and we don't share
all five and I might care aboutone more than the other and vice
(15:22):
versa, and it's an introductionto this kind of this world of
we are complex beings, we havedifferent needs and desires, and
I think that's really beautiful.
But I think it's a startingpoint and I think a lot of
people read that book and thenthey stop and they're like it's
all about love languages.
If we can just speak eachother's love language, we're
going to be okay.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
It's like I mean no, and I think you nailed it when
you said complex, because Ithink people love putting things
into categories and simplifyingthings in that way, but the
reality is, as humans, we are somuch more complex.
Yeah, when you're in arelationship with another human,
you've got to grow and learnmore than just their love
(16:08):
language.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yep, yep, so yeah.
So that's kind of what I wasthinking.
So if you're a person who isall about the love languages,
awesome, my invitation to youlike, read the book.
Absolutely.
If you haven't read the book,read the book.
If you have read the book,revisit it, but revisit it with
the context of how does thisinform how I show up for my
(16:30):
partner, how does this informhow I can be a better partner,
how I can elevate my game, andnot, in what ways is this
demonstrating to me how I amdeprived or how my partner is
weak or how they're deficientand how they're not showing up
the way that I need them to?
How does this show to me theways that they're withholding or
(16:51):
they're not good enough andletting it be a source of
resentment?
So it's a difficult thing to do.
When there is an imbalance ofthoughtfulness or an imbalance
of intentionality in yourrelationship and you're the one
investing, maybe overover-functioning a little bit
and putting in more effort andenergy and thoughtfulness into
the relationship, it can bereally difficult to be like, oh,
(17:14):
like I'm not getting anythingback.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
I think what a lot of people use the five life love
languages.
It's.
It's an okay, so it's a simpleconcept to understand and it's a
good like jumping off point.
But I think what you're likereferring to is people can use
it as a scorecard, and keepingscore is never going to get you
more of what you want in yourrelationship.
(17:38):
And so it's, while it's easy tolike, an easy thing to
understand of like this is how Ican do awesome things for my
partner, even my kids.
They have five love languagefor kids, but it's also a very
easy way to fall intoscorekeeping.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah.
So if if that sounds like youand you're kind of a scorekeeper
, a good episode to go back andlisten to is a recent episode
that we did.
About what did we title it?
But it was about the what Shamutaught me about life, love and
marriage.
And think about what behaviorsthat you're incentivizing,
instead of keeping score of whodoes what.
(18:14):
Yes, I cannot remember thatepisode, do you remember?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I cannot remember the name of the episode, but I know
that it's number 309.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
No, no, we talked about acknowledging even the
slightest progress.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yes, it hasn't come out yet, right?
I think it's episode three.
Well, in the moment that we'rerecording this, it hasn't come
out yet, right?
I think it's episode three.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, in the moment that we're recording this, it
hasn't come out but by the timeyou listen to this, it will.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
We're getting very confused.
Yes, we'll link to it in theshow notes, but definitely it's
about recognizing progress andincentivizing the right things
with your partner.
So yes, so yes, keeping scoreof who's speaking more
(18:56):
proficiently each other's lovelanguage is definitely going to
have some negative consequences.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
A lot of them, yeah, I've seen it happen.
So five love languages just tokind of encapsulate everything.
Great principle in theory it'sa great introduction to.
We all experience life a littlebit differently and
relationships a little bitdifferently.
Card if you make it anexpectation or if you create
(19:32):
this covert contract in yourhead that if my partner loves me
, then they will treat me thisway, they will give me this
thing and then anything thatthey do to the contrary is proof
that they don't love you orthey don't care about you.
That can be a very toxic recipefor relationship failure,
(19:53):
breakdown.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
So good, yeah.
So I think you proved it reallywell that the five love
languages, while useful, canalso be very dangerous.
So let's make sure that weexamine how we're using these
pieces of information about eachother, and there's lots of
actual principles that we cantalk about that that can be
(20:16):
really really dangerous if wekind of hang our relationship
health hat on it.
So so, yeah, I think the fivelove languages you know just
maybe take inventory of what youknow about your partner and how
you're using that information.
Maybe take inventory of whatyou know about your partner and
how you're using thatinformation.
Is it blessing yourrelationship or is it causing
resentment?
(20:36):
And however you answer, thatquestion is kind of where you
need to do some exploration.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Bam Love it.
We'll see you next week.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
All right, thanks for tuning in.
Hello and welcome to the Secrets of Happily Ever
After podcast.
I'm your host, monica Tanner,my co-host, nate Bagley, and we
loved this last week justletting Nate take away the topic
and I just kind of spun off ofwhatever he started.
So I barely know what he'stalking about on this one, so
I'm going to let him introducewhat we're talking about today.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Awesome.
I like throwing the curveballs,I like coming up with an idea
just to see what pops up for you.
I have a theory.
I'm pretty confident that themost popular relationship book
ever written and some peoplewill be like the Bible the Bible
non-religious text.
(00:42):
Do you know what I mean?
It's a book specificallywritten for marriage.
I think that it does more harmthan good and the book is the
five love languages and thereare going to be people who hear
me say this.
That will be like they're goingto.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
If you can't handle it, shut it off.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
But if you're curious cause I'm curious- I'm not
going to knock, I don't think.
My hope is that this iscurveball enough that it helps
people understand how the fivelove languages might be hurting
their relationship and what theycan actually do about it.
Because the idea itself.
So let's start at the top.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I love this idea because we talk about the five
languages.
Five love languages all thetime and I don't necessarily
love them.
But, I do refer to them quiteoften.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I love the idea of understanding that different
people give and receive lovedifferently.
Yes, I love the concept that Iactually did an experiment early
on in my marriage where I waslike, okay, for one week I'm
going to get my wife flowers, soI'm going to give her a gift.
(01:49):
I'm going to clean the houseevery day and take care of her
least favorite chores, which wasdishes.
She hates doing dishes, so Ijust did the dishes without her
asking every single day and justmade sure that the kitchen was
always clean.
And then I wrote her littlelove notes for words of
affirmation, just to make herfeel good.
And then every day when I gothome from work, I would like pin
(02:11):
her up against the wall andgive her a passionate kiss, and
that was like my physical touchthing and I wanted to see at the
end of the week what sheresponded best to.
So at the end of the week itwas Sunday, we were talking and
I was like, hey, did you noticeanything different this week?
And she goes oh my gosh, thatkiss like every day.
I don't know where that camefrom, but you come home from
work and pin me up against thewall and give me this really
(02:32):
passionate kiss oh my gosh, Ilove that so much, thank you.
And I was like, yeah, noproblem.
And she's like, and I alsonoticed you've like really been
helping around the house a lotmore too, like it's been so nice
to just not have to worry aboutthe dishes.
That's been great.
I'm like, yeah, no problem.
And then I said, did you, didyou notice the flowers?
And she goes the what?
And I'm like the flowers on thekitchen table, she goes, oh my
(02:55):
gosh, how long have those beenthere?
And I'm like two or three days.
And she's like are you serious?
I completely missed them.
And I realized in that momentthat my wife really craved and
loved and appreciated physicaltouch and she also really
appreciated getting help,especially with acts of service,
things that she hated doing,but gifts not a big thing for
(03:17):
her.
And it was cool.
I put the five love language tothe test to see if my wife
would respond differently todifferent things and she
absolutely did.
So that concept I love.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
So you're using five love languages right now.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I love.
But here's the thing I thinkthe way that most people
implement the five lovelanguages in their marriage
actually does more harm thangood.
The idea and the principlesthemselves are great, but I
think what happens is you readthe book and then you go.
You identify your lovelanguages.
You go oh my gosh, my lovelanguage is words of affirmation
(03:56):
and acts of service.
That's all I need.
I just need my partner toappreciate me more and help me
out more, and then I'll be happy.
And then I'll be happy, andthen we, and then, like, once we
learn this concept and learnthis thing about ourselves,
learn what really sets us off ina good way, not sets us off in
(04:16):
a bad way, but learn what reallylike, gets us, gets us going
and makes us feel loved, then weweaponize it.
Then, every time something goeswrong in the relationship or
your partner lets you down, youuse your own love language as a
cudgel to beat your partner overthe head with.
Like you just never perform.
My love language is acts ofservice and you're not serving
(04:37):
enough.
My love language is words ofappreciation and you never tell
me anything Like.
You never tell me how much youlove me or how much good I'm
doing in the relationship.
And the love language hasbecome an expectation, it's a,
it's a, it's a covert contractthat if, if, now that my partner
knows these things about me, ifthey truly love me, they'll do
(04:58):
these things, and if they're notdoing those things it's because
they don't love me, they don'tcare.
And I think that that thoseideas, when the five love
languages are implemented inthat way or with that attitude,
can really be damaging.
And I see it happen a lot.
I see the five love languagesbecome the source of a lot of
(05:22):
resentment in marriage.
I see it become the source of alot of jealousy.
I've seen it become the sourceof infidelity, like, oh, I met
this coworker, this othersomebody from my past has
rekindled this relationship andstarted talking to me and all
they do is tell me howincredible I am and how amazing
(05:43):
I am.
And I never get that from mypartner and it just feels so
good to feel appreciated the wayI want to be appreciated.
Maybe I chose the wrong person.
Then these doubts start tocreep in.
I'm feeling all these positiveemotions from this other person.
So the five love languages ifyou believe that the only way
(06:03):
you can feel love or the onlyway your partner can correctly
express love is if they do it inaccordance to what matters most
to you.
I think that can be a reallydangerous belief to adopt.
What do you think?
What do you think about thispremise?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I'm kind of working it around in my mind.
So you're saying that it's fairto say that Gary Chapman nailed
like five different ways inwhich people express love and he
probably got pretty close tothe five ways.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, developing relational to realizing that the
way you experience love and orjust the world in general is not
the same the way that your,that your partner does.
And, yeah, I think the fivelove languages that he came up
with are like a really greatentry point into considering how
(06:56):
other people might feelexpression of love and
connection.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Okay.
So I just had like a light bulb, like okay, because, yeah, I
think it's interesting, becauseI think the five love languages
is kind of like like apersonality test, like it's true
that there are different peoplewho experience and give love in
different ways, which are whatthe five love languages are, but
it's just information aboutyour partner.
(07:24):
But I think what happens iswhat you're.
I think what you're kind oftrying to say is like if we put
too much stock in it, then it'sreally, it can be really
crippling Because like, forexample, like a disc assessment
or like a Myers-Briggs like a.
Myers-Briggs Right, and you'relike well, I can't do that
(07:46):
because I'm a blue, or you knowlike.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I'm a Pisces, whatever.
Whatever, however, you mightdefine yourself.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like you know, I can't be in arelationship with a gift giver.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Like I'm a physical touch person right.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
or or you know, like you, you can't expect me to do
that.
That's not my love language.
I don't know what to do there,right?
Or something like that.
Or you, you can't expect me tofunction without this thing
because that's my love language,right?
So it's just like yeah, I thinkyou can put a lot of just
unfair limitations on that, likeyou could.
(08:27):
Yeah, you can use theinformation for good, like, oh,
I know my my partner is a wordsof affirmation, so I can give
compliments freely.
That is something I can do toreally like support my partner,
right?
But at the same time, you canalso pigeonhole, like that's the
only way to show love to them.
(08:47):
Or, you know, if I want to hurtthem, I'm definitely not going
to do that thing?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, it can be a punishing thing.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, withholding, ooh.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, I see a lot of people who will um, this is a
frequent occurrence wherethey'll learn.
They learn each other's lovelanguage and one partner goes
out and goes okay, you're aphysical affection person, I'm
just going to give you lots ofaffection, lots of affection,
and they just they go out oftheir way to do that and that's
really awesome of them.
But they expect their partner toreciprocate with the same level
(09:20):
of energy and enthusiasm fortheir love language, which might
be acts of service.
And it's like well, I've, youknow, I keep giving you
affection and I initiated sex acouple of times and I keep
kissing, I kiss you and I'vebeen holding your hand and I've
given you back scratches and Isnuggle with you every night and
you're still not picking upyour laundry.
(09:41):
And it becomes kind of a covertcontract of like, well, I'm
doing this, why aren't you doingthis?
Am I the only one who caresabout the relationship?
Because there's thisexpectation that, now that you
have the information, now thatyou know how I feel loved, now
that you know what my lovelanguage is, you are going to
dedicate yourself to speakingthat language and that's the
(10:02):
only language that you will useto speak to me, and if you don't
, I'm going to interpret that asyou do not care.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah.
You do not love me there's alsolike setting the kind of the
limitations on it that, like myprimary love language is words
of affirmation, but that's notto say that and probably my
lowest is gifts.
Like I am terrible.
I'm a terrible gift giver and Idon't super recognize like
(10:29):
really great gifts, unless it'swhat.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
A vacation, but that's meaningful.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I do love vacations, but that's more quality time and
I, a quality time is up therefor me.
But yeah, like that doesn'tmean that if my husband brought
home flowers I wouldn't be likesuper stoked, like, oh my gosh,
like thank you for thinking ofme.
That's amazing, like I I canget all of the validation of
words of affirmation from him.
(10:56):
Bringing me home flowers meansjust as much as if it cause.
It's just like him saying youare such an amazing wife and I
was thinking about you today andI wanted to show you how much I
love you.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So, monica, my whole argument for this is that not
everybody can do that.
Not everybody can do that.
My whole argument is there arepeople out there and this is how
it can ruin your relationship.
There are people out there whoget the flowers and all they see
is you don't get me, you justdon't get me.
I don't care about the flowers,don't you get it?
(11:27):
I do not care about the flowers, I just want you to put your
clothes in the hamper.
I just want you to kiss me whenyou see me.
I just want you to say thankyou for doing the thing that I
did yesterday to make your lifea little bit better.
But all you're doing is justlike you just give me flowers
and think that that's going to,that's going to scratch the itch
and it just doesn't do it forme and they become resentful and
angry.
So I think it's awesome thatpeople I think it's aspirational
(11:50):
for people to get to the placethat you're at, where you can
get the gift of flowers and belike I feel loved and this is
wonderful.
Even though it's not my primarylove language.
My argument is that there are alot of people who read the five
love languages and they think,ah, I've unlocked the key to a
happy marriage.
If my partner does X, y and Z,if my partner has lots of sex
(12:14):
with me and helps me clean thehouse every day, or if my
partner spends a lot of timewatching my shows with me and
rubs my feet, if my partnergives me these, whatever the
recipe is for them, if mypartner does that, then I'm
going to be happy, and if I dothat for them, then they're
going to be happy.
So it all requires us for bothof us to do that thing for each
other and we'll be happy.
And then, when that doesn'thappen the way that they
(12:37):
envision it happening, theybecome resentful and angry and
it becomes more of a wedge thanit, than what it was intended to
be, which is like an insight tohelp you more than anything, I
think, help you love yourpartner more.
But I think what most peopleexperience it as is this is how
I want to be loved.
They experience a.
This is what I can get out ofit and not not so much.
(13:00):
This is what I can put into it.
It's more.
It's.
It's less about hey, I'mdiscovering something about my
partner and how I can be abetter partner to them.
It's more a wow, I finallyunderstood why I don't feel
loved by my partner.
If they just do this, then I'llbe happy in my relationship.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's it's.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
It's kind of small have you seen anything like this
though?
Like am I on?
Do you think I'm on track here?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Um, yeah, no, I mean I think I think you have a very
valid argument.
And what if I brought this intothe discussion, because you
hear a lot of times like a lovelanguage, like yeah, knowing
someone's love language is likecool, but like, have you ever
heard the saying like love isnot enough, like it's not enough
just to love somebody?
(13:44):
So if all you're doing isspeaking in their love language,
maybe that's not enough toreally have a healthy, dynamic,
passionate, intimaterelationship.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I agree.
I agree, I'm a firm believerthat.
Have you ever heard the phrasemilk before meat?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Hmm, yeah, sort of.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I think what it goes back.
Let me actually look at theorigins of that.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Milk before meat.
That makes me think of myJewish ancestry and keeping
things kosher.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
The phrase milk before meat comes from the Bible
.
It refers to the idea that somepeople are not yet ready for
meat and instead need milk orother nourishment.
So, like babies, you can't feedthem meat.
You have to.
You have to give them milkfirst, and then they grow into
it and then they can have meat.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
The idea is like we start with like simple, simple
foods that can be broken downeasily, and then we get to the
more complex ones, and the samething goes with like information
and knowledge, and and the ideahere is that I believe, is that
the love languages is a goodmilk principle.
It's like a good entry levelinto having empathy and getting
more understanding and moreprofound understanding of your
(14:59):
partner.
But it is not meat Like.
This is not.
This is not everything.
And a lot of people read thatbook because I think part of the
reason it is so approachable isit's an easy to grasp concept.
It's like oh, there's thesefive things and we don't share
all five and I might care aboutone more than the other and vice
(15:22):
versa, and it's an introductionto this kind of this world of
we are complex beings, we havedifferent needs and desires, and
I think that's really beautiful.
But I think it's a startingpoint and I think a lot of
people read that book and thenthey stop and they're like it's
all about love languages.
If we can just speak eachother's love language, we're
going to be okay.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
It's like I mean no, and I think you nailed it when
you said complex, because Ithink people love putting things
into categories and simplifyingthings in that way, but the
reality is, as humans, we are somuch more complex.
Yeah, when you're in arelationship with another human,
you've got to grow and learnmore than just their love
(16:08):
language.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yep, yep, so yeah.
So that's kind of what I wasthinking.
So if you're a person who isall about the love languages,
awesome, my invitation to youlike, read the book.
Absolutely.
If you haven't read the book,read the book.
If you have read the book,revisit it, but revisit it with
the context of how does thisinform how I show up for my
(16:30):
partner, how does this informhow I can be a better partner,
how I can elevate my game, andnot, in what ways is this
demonstrating to me how I amdeprived or how my partner is
weak or how they're deficientand how they're not showing up
the way that I need them to?
How does this show to me theways that they're withholding or
(16:51):
they're not good enough andletting it be a source of
resentment?
So it's a difficult thing to do.
When there is an imbalance ofthoughtfulness or an imbalance
of intentionality in yourrelationship and you're the one
investing, maybe overover-functioning a little bit
and putting in more effort andenergy and thoughtfulness into
the relationship, it can bereally difficult to be like, oh,
(17:14):
like I'm not getting anythingback.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
I think what a lot of people use the five life love
languages.
It's.
It's an okay, so it's a simpleconcept to understand and it's a
good like jumping off point.
But I think what you're likereferring to is people can use
it as a scorecard, and keepingscore is never going to get you
more of what you want in yourrelationship.
(17:38):
And so it's, while it's easy tolike, an easy thing to
understand of like this is how Ican do awesome things for my
partner, even my kids.
They have five love languagefor kids, but it's also a very
easy way to fall intoscorekeeping.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah.
So if if that sounds like youand you're kind of a scorekeeper
, a good episode to go back andlisten to is a recent episode
that we did.
About what did we title it?
But it was about the what Shamutaught me about life, love and
marriage.
And think about what behaviorsthat you're incentivizing,
instead of keeping score of whodoes what.
(18:14):
Yes, I cannot remember thatepisode, do you remember?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I cannot remember the name of the episode, but I know
that it's number 309.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
No, no, we talked about acknowledging even the
slightest progress.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yes, it hasn't come out yet, right?
I think it's episode three.
Well, in the moment that we'rerecording this, it hasn't come
out yet, right?
I think it's episode three.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, in the moment that we're recording this, it
hasn't come out but by the timeyou listen to this, it will.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
We're getting very confused.
Yes, we'll link to it in theshow notes, but definitely it's
about recognizing progress andincentivizing the right things
with your partner.
So yes, so yes, keeping scoreof who's speaking more
(18:56):
proficiently each other's lovelanguage is definitely going to
have some negative consequences.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
A lot of them, yeah, I've seen it happen.
So five love languages just tokind of encapsulate everything.
Great principle in theory it'sa great introduction to.
We all experience life a littlebit differently and
relationships a little bitdifferently.
Card if you make it anexpectation or if you create
(19:32):
this covert contract in yourhead that if my partner loves me
, then they will treat me thisway, they will give me this
thing and then anything thatthey do to the contrary is proof
that they don't love you orthey don't care about you.
That can be a very toxic recipefor relationship failure,
(19:53):
breakdown.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
So good, yeah.
So I think you proved it reallywell that the five love
languages, while useful, canalso be very dangerous.
So let's make sure that weexamine how we're using these
pieces of information about eachother, and there's lots of
actual principles that we cantalk about that that can be
(20:16):
really really dangerous if wekind of hang our relationship
health hat on it.
So so, yeah, I think the fivelove languages you know just
maybe take inventory of what youknow about your partner and how
you're using that information.
Maybe take inventory of whatyou know about your partner and
how you're using thatinformation.
Is it blessing yourrelationship or is it causing
resentment?
(20:36):
And however you answer, thatquestion is kind of where you
need to do some exploration.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Bam Love it.
We'll see you next week.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
All right, thanks for tuning in.
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