March 4, 2025 • 29 mins
This episode sheds light on the often challenging journey of forgiveness in relationships. Understanding how to forgive is crucial for moving forward after betrayal or hurt.
• Exploring the emotional journey of betrayal in relationships
• Importance of understanding personal willingness in forgiveness
• Discussing the withholding dynamic in relationships
• Actionable steps to effectively communicate needs for healing
• Viewing forgiveness as an act of personal freedom
• Encouragement to seek professional help if necessary
If you’re struggling with issues of trust and forgiveness in your relationship, please reach out for support. You can book a complimentary relationship breakthrough call here: https://tidycal.com/onthebrightersideoflife/call
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Secrets of Happily Ever
After podcast.
I'm your host, Monica Tanner,with my co-host, Nate Bagley,
and last week we talked aboutbreaches of trust and how to
handle that if you have causedyour partner pain in some way,
big or small, and this week wewant to talk about if you are
(00:22):
the partner who has been hurt,how do you find it within
yourself to forgive, even whenit's really difficult?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
And I'll just kind of summarize, If you haven't
listened to last week's episodeNate and I did a role play, a
scenario where Nate made areally bad error and he lied
about where he was and we wentthrough an entire role play
where he apologized, he tookresponsibility for uh, for what
(00:52):
his actions.
He um did his best to understandmy experience and why it would
be hurtful to me.
And then we worked together andhe didn't expect me to just
forgive him immediately.
And then we worked together andhe didn't expect me to just
forgive him immediately.
And then we worked together onsome sort of way that he
promised me it wouldn't happenagain, like things that I could
(01:15):
do, you know, whether it's totrack his location or whatever
how we could work so that Icould rebuild that trust.
And on this week's episode,what we want to talk about is
when you've been hurt by yourpartner, which inevitably will
happen in a long-term committedrelationship they're going to
make mistakes, they're going todo things, and how do we find it
(01:37):
within ourselves to forgive,even when they're taking full
responsibility, or maybe they'renot, maybe they're not doing
all of the great things thatNate exemplified, and we still
want to forgive our partner.
How do we do that?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
side that we talked about in our previous episode.
A lot in the relationship worldit's like how do you clean up
your mess?
How do you be responsible?
How do you you know?
How do you, how do you step upyour game and make, make
something right that you madewrong?
We put a lot of focus on theperson who is who has screwed up
, needing to rectify their ways.
But I've seen it over and overand over again If you don't, if
the other person who's been hurtdoesn't have a clear path to
(02:27):
forgive, what happens is you.
Um, you get stuck in thisconstant state of anticipation,
of waiting for the other shoe todrop.
It feels like your relationship, you're in your relationship.
You're just holding your breath, you're waiting for that
partner to screw up again.
You're like trying to willyourself into intimacy, but
you're also just kind ofconstantly terrified that the
(02:50):
thing that your partner did thathurt you, that that you're
going to find out tomorrow ornext week or next year that
they're right back to doing thatthing again, that they've or
they've made another similarchoice that's going to blind
sides you and sends you backinto that space of betrayal and
hurt and sadness and distrust,and that's a scary thought and
that is not a place for amarriage to be, where you have
(03:12):
one person who is sincere andwants to be forgiven and the
other person who's just holdingtheir breath and they might even
verbally say I forgive you, butif it's not meant like that,
it's an icky place for bothpeople to be.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, and another piece of this that we talk about
in relational life therapy,which is the program that I just
finished, is we call thistransmission reception work.
So, whether it's a betrayal, oreven just when you're working
in therapy, when partner Astarts giving partner B what
(03:48):
they've asked for, a lot oftimes partner B will start to
and work with partner B onreceiving what is given.
So, whether that requiresforgiveness or that just
(04:11):
requires accepting the offeringthat partner A is giving, it's
really really, really important.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, I've seen partner B often go to a place of
like you haven't sufferedenough, like I need to make you
suffer longer.
You need to be in the penaltybox for for a longer period of
time because hurt me and youneed to feel that.
Yeah, I don't, yeah, and and and.
That can be like when you'rekeeping score of of pain.
That can be really um, that canprohibit both of your enjoyment
(04:41):
of the marriage.
And it's like how long are yougoing to keep your partner in
jail before you set them free tobe part of the relationship
again?
And like the dynamic and thishappens a lot in marriage where
when you feel like you're right,you go into a one-up position,
a position of superioritygrandiosity is another word that
(05:03):
gets used a lot and wheneveryou do that, you immediately put
your partner in a one downposition, an inferior position,
and nobody wants to be in arelationship where they feel
like the other partner is just.
This always has the moral highground and they're always the
one who's wrong and bad andmistaken and in the wrong.
That's not a fun place to be.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
And the problem with grandiosity, any type of
grandiosity, is it feels, sogood it feels good to ride in
the one-up position, so it'shard to get the partner who's
gone one-up to come down becauseit feels good up there.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
It does feel really good up there.
It feels justified, it feelsvery like I'm the good person
and you're the bad person.
It feels good to be the goodperson and I think it's just
important to note that it isjust as possible for the person
who made the mistake and brokethe trust in the first place
that could end the relationship.
That could end the relationship.
(06:02):
But it's just as likely for theperson who refuses to forgive
and demands that their partnerremain in jail for the rest of
their marriage to end therelationship.
It's just as possible.
And it may not be like actuallyending up in divorce or a
breakup.
It might just be like this isthe end of the relationship as
we knew it.
We're never going to get out ofthis place where you're never
(06:29):
going to trust me again andwe're just going to be roommates
.
We're going to be stuck.
We're going to be like we'renot going to have that passion,
that connection ever again,because you won't allow for it.
You can't let go of whathappened in the past and that
type of ending the relationshipis very, is very real and very
present in a lot ofrelationships.
So let's talk about how to notget stuck there.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Exactly Because I just want to bring this out.
You kind of said it, but thepartner that is in unforgiveness
, the partner that's having ahard time forgive, is often very
withholding, and so that's avery-.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Say more about withholding.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So emotionally, physically, sexually withholding
.
So if I can't forgive you forsomething that you've done, I
wanna withhold love from you.
I wanna withhold attention.
I'm not gonna-.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
You don't deserve it.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, I'm not gonna follow your bids.
I'm not gonna let you.
I'm not gonna wanna be intimatewith you.
I'm not gonna want to do thingsfor you.
I'm not going to let you.
I'm not going to want to beintimate with you.
I'm not going to want to dothings for you.
I'm not going to be generous,right?
So that's a very withholdingposition.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
It's a very contemptuous place to be.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Exactly, exactly.
So, one up, one down, bothcarry a lot of contempt, but
it's just is the contempt turnoutwards or is the contempt
inwards?
And so if you're riding in theone up position and you're
feeling grandiose and you'rewithholding from your partner,
it feels good, it feels, likeyou said, justified, and so
(07:54):
today we want to talk about howdo you come down, how do you
forgive your partner?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You want to know where I would suggest you start.
Yeah, um, there is this.
Uh, I want to give the personcredit, alison Armstrong.
Um, I'm going to read you thequote and then I'm going to
explain what it means she saysif you are not willing to be
healed, the chances of you beinghealed by accident are slim.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Um.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And the word willing is something that she really
hammers home in her workshopthat I attended or listened to.
I can't remember where I heardthis, but I wrote it down and it
really stuck with me.
If you're not willing to behealed, the likelihood of it
happening by accident is slim.
So when she uses the wordwilling, she clarifies she's
(08:45):
like.
Willing does not mean like oh,I'm open to it.
If it happens, like oh, if itoccurs and it takes me by
surprise, I'll roll with it,like I'll accept it.
She said willing in thiscontext means you are engaging
your will, you are going to willsomething to happen.
Like think about I don't know,like when is the time in your
(09:06):
life?
Can you think of a time, monica, where you're like I'm going to
, this is going to happen,whether it doesn't matter what
anybody else wants, I'm going towill this into existence, I'm
going to will this intohappening.
Can you think of a time in yourlife where you've willed
something?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Wow, that was like that.
I mean, I can think of timeswhen, yeah, when I needed to get
back in shape, when I needed torehab, like my knee or
something like that.
And you know, like I remember atime in high school when I tore
my ACL.
It was my senior year, I toreit very beginning of my soccer
season and I was bound anddetermined.
(09:42):
Nobody was going to stop me notthe doctors, not my parents,
not anyone who would tell methat I couldn't rehab my knee
and be back for the statetournament Right, and I did yes.
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Bound and determined Nobody's going to stop me.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Ain't nothing getting in my way?
No excuses, this is happening.
That is what what she means bywilling in this context.
So you're not going to gethealed by accident.
So there has to come a point inyour, in your, in this process,
where you're like I'm done.
I'm done making my partnersuffer for the choice that they
made, over and over and overagain, I'm done holding this
(10:17):
over their head.
I'm done like getting, likefeeling resentful and hurt.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yes, so that's so important.
Let me make one distinctionbefore we go into this.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You can't forgive what's still going on.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So you have to be at a point.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
You have to have some evidence.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yes, where the breaches of trust or whatever is
causing you to be hurt by yourpartner has stopped Like you
have like, if.
If your partner continues to dothe same behavior over and,
over and over again, that hurtsyou.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
You've got to get some help.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, let's use let's .
Let's use a.
Let's go back to the examplethat we used in the last episode
.
So I know you recapped itreally quick, but like, let's
say you know I had I.
I told you I was going to stayat work and then I ended up
going out with my friendsdrinking.
I came home the next day, wehad a conversation and I told
you I said, hey, this is reallyimportant for me to show you
(11:17):
that I'm not going to make thismistake again.
I realized I screwed up.
Now let's fast forward three tosix months, can?
you do it again, you know maybewe've gone to therapy, maybe
I've let you, like, track mylocation for a while, if that
was something that you reallythought was important.
I have my own, um, my ownopinions on whether or not
that's something, but, like,whatever, let's say that's
(11:39):
something that we did.
Let's say, like, let's just saythat we've been working on it
for three, for three to sixmonths, um, and it and I have
shown a lot of evidence.
I'm like honoring my word, I'mcoming home, I'm being
transparent about what's goingon.
I've stopped hanging out withthose friends.
I've prioritized the family.
I've shown you I mean business.
(12:00):
Maybe I went to AA meetings andI have a sponsor and I'm like
really consistent and and youcan just you sense, you can see
the evidence that I'm I'mserious and I feel really bad
for making that really stupidchoice.
And also, maybe for these lastthree months, you've been a
(12:22):
little reluctant to engage,engage in that relationship the
way that you had in the past,because you're protecting
yourself from being hurt again.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Okay, so now it's time for me to forget, right?
Because it's not happening anylonger.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Right.
So you have evidence that it'snot happening any longer.
We are not in an abusivesituation where somebody is
exploiting and taking advantageof you.
You have a contrite, apologetic, earnest husband who knows he
screwed up and is making anhonest effort to make it right
and to not rush you to thatdecision.
But also he's kind of sick ofbeing in the doghouse.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah so how do I find it within me to forgive?
What are the steps?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah.
So the first thing is is youhave to be willing and needs to
start with like I'm ready andain't nothing getting in my way
of of me having the marriagethat I want, which means I need
to let go.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah.
So what would that look likefor you, like at what, let's say
, you start to see this evidence, talk to talk me through this,
this perspective shift.
For you, like at what point doyou get to this place where it's
like, oh man, how long am Igoing to, you know, let this go
on.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah.
So I think for me, I thinkprobably a first step would be
gosh, that is really hard.
A first step for me would be toto let.
I think if I was unwilling toforgive you for hurting me, I
would have a.
I would hold a really tightgrip on my story.
(13:58):
My story is I can't trust youbecause you lied to me and you
went out that night and you knowI've got this whole story about
how you don't care about me andyou do things behind my back,
and so I think the first stepfor me in really finding
forgiveness is to loosen my gripon that story and let it be,
nate made a mistake.
(14:19):
He didn't mean to hurt me.
He didn't realize you know whattype of effect that would have
on me.
Maybe he is really sorry andmaybe he's never going to do it
again.
So you just, piece by piece,loosen the grip on that story
(14:40):
that you're a dirt bag andyou're just going to lie to me.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's great.
So so you're starting to loosenyour grip on that story?
Yeah, that's great.
So you're starting to loosenyour grip on that story.
(15:03):
The next step that AlisonArmstrong has in her process
mirrors that a lot, she says thesecond step after you decide
you need to be healed is if theyhave to justify, explain or
rationalize to you why they didwhat they did to hurt you.
So if they're spending all theirtime and energy explaining like
, look, this is why I did this,or whatever, then you're never
going to get the healing thatyou need, because it's going to
(15:25):
be about them and not about you.
It's going to be about theirneed to feel, um, to feel like
off the hook, or or to help youunderstand why they did what
they did, and not not the focuson, like what do you need to be
healed?
And so, um, the best way to dothat is to assume that they had
a good reason for doing whatthey did, assuming that they
(15:46):
assume that they were doing thebest they could given the
circumstances that they were in,that they weren't, they weren't
blatantly misbehaving, theydidn't have a specific vendetta
against you.
Like they're there, they didn'tmake that choice because they
were trying to hurt you, thatthey were trying to destroy your
relationship.
They were making that choicefor a reason that made sense to
them at the time.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, and I think that is that chunk that you just
said is really important itmade sense to them at the time.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
The reality is, you probably just weren't thinking
about me.
You probably were just thinkingabout yourself, which happens
sometimes to us as humansthinking about our own stuff and
we don't think about therepercussions for the people
that we love.
Yeah, and so that probably isvery valid.
You were not thinking about meat the time.
You were being very selfish andyou just did the thing you
(16:36):
didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
In some cases it's selfish, in some cases it's not.
Yeah, you're trying to protectme.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Maybe you're trying to protect me from knowing you
know that you had a drinkingproblem or whatever.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
whatever the case is, or like I mean and it might
help to be curious about thisMaybe you have conversations
about this over time to gain anunderstanding of why the choice
got made, without beingaccusational, just like maybe
that's what we talk about intherapy is like hey, you know
what made you feel like youneeded to hide that from from me
?
Maybe it's we have a history ofyou getting really angry at me
(17:08):
when I want to do something formyself and I never, ever get a
chance to go socialize and haveguilty or so the only way I can
cultivate a friendship outsideof work is to lie about it.
That may not be the case.
Maybe the maybe the case is.
I have a history growing upwhere if I did something wrong,
my parents would just like layinto me, and they would.
(17:29):
They would.
They used a lot of shame tomake me feel small and bad and
wrong.
And what I learned growing upwas that if you do something
self-indulgent or a little alittle selfish, that it's better
to hide it than it is to behonest about it, because you'll
just get punished and that's agood than it is to be honest
about it, because you'll justget punished, and that's a good
(17:50):
thing.
It doesn't excuse the behavior,but it's an understanding of
like.
Oh, he wasn't doing this tohurt me.
He was doing this because of.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah, and so the reality is is you made a mistake
?
Yeah, and you are willing to dowhat it takes to make it up to
me.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Right, I'm willing.
Now can you be willing to letit go?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Exactly, exactly.
Can I be willing to allow youto make that mistake and then,
you know, be forgiven and get ablank slate Right.
And I think you know, if you'relistening to this and you're
you're religious, you know thatmakes sense Like the like
(18:33):
heavenly father forgives us.
We should be able to forgiveothers, right.
But if you're not religious,then just realize, as humans we
make mistakes and if we don'twant to be, you know, on the
hook for every single mistakewe've ever made, we better learn
how to let people off the hookwhen they let us down or make a
(18:54):
mistake because it's going tohappen.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yep.
So first, be willing.
Second is, assume they had agood reason for doing what they
were doing.
And then the last step in thisprocess is you need to tell your
partner what you need from themor want from them in order to
heal you.
And most often, um, it goesback to, uh, what I've noticed
(19:20):
in my life and you can tell meif you're wrong, if I'm wrong
here, if you don't share this,but, um, oftentimes it's just
there's, there's a certain,there's words that I need to
hear, and if you can say thesewords, if you can say the words
to me and say and mean them,then, like something magical
happens and and it just liftsthis burden off my shoulders,
(19:44):
like really interesting becausefor me it's a feeling.
I need to feel something fromyou, I need to feel important to
you, I need to feel umconsidered by you it's not
necessarily the words, but it'sa feeling so you've seen this
evidence of me like making youfeel important over the last
couple of months, and then wesit down to have a conversation
(20:05):
and you can say like, hey, I,I'm ready to move past this yeah
, yeah, um.
Yeah, um, here, here's what Ijust.
I just.
This is the last thing I need.
I just need to tell, I need youto tell me that I'm the most
important thing to you in yourlife.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
And.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
I need you to mean it and I need, I need you to tell
me that, like that, I matter toyou and that you're not going to
.
You're not going to, you're notgoing to make a big choice like
that again, without talking tome and being honest about it in
the future.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And if you can, if you can tell me that and mean it
, I think I, I don't know, maybeI'm like putting the words in
your mouth, but what in thissituation?
Like what, what?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
would be.
That's really interesting,cause it's different for you
than it is for me, right, it's.
It's about words and sentences.
For you that you know, beingable to feed somebody those
sentences is that's great, right.
For me, it's a feeling like Ineed to feel that you care about
me, you know for me to you knowbe, able to restore that trust
(21:09):
in you.
But I think, no matter what,what that is, what, no matter
what it is that you need to beable to feel healed from it.
I think forgiveness is always anact of faith and the reality is
and you know, you learn thiswhen you're little kids and you
know, I've heard it a milliontimes but it is really, really
(21:30):
true.
Forgive like, uh, you know,holding a grudge or, you know,
not letting go of something, islike drinking poison and
expecting the other person todie.
Like we have to be able to forourselves, like for our own sake
, be able to forgive.
And I really want to like sendthis message out to anyone who's
(21:53):
listening, like you know I hopethat you know, if you're
listening and you're carryingsomething in your marriage
that's really hard, that's hardto forgive.
That's something that's stillgoing on.
I just I want to let you knowthat, even though you forgive,
you can still.
(22:14):
You still have a choice.
You can forgive your partnerfor lying to you repeatedly.
That doesn't mean you have tostay in the marriage.
Yeah, you always have agency.
But to be able to forgive is tofree yourself to make a good
choice.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, forgiveness is not an endorsement of the
behavior.
Exactly, forgiveness is notcontinuing to punish them for
the choice that they made a long, long time ago.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Or a short time ago.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Is it something that you can live with and carry on?
Do you want to to mend thatrelationship and that trust, or
do you want to forgive and moveon to another relationship or to
another?
You know situation but eitherway, being able to forgive
before you make the decisionwhether to stay or whether to go
is going to be really healingfor you.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And help you make a better decision for yourself.
And I'll just want to reiterate, or maybe say in a different
way, what you said at thebeginning this process only
works one in a situation.
That's not like if the personis still actively making a bad
choice.
That's that doesn't work.
And also if somebody isintentionally hurting you.
That's a different situationentirely Like.
(23:37):
This process works largely forpeople who in a situation where,
like I, made this choice yes, Iwas selfish, but it wasn't with
the intent to harm.
I wasn't doing this likemaliciously to try and hurt you.
Specifically, I made a choicethat might've been selfish or
absent-minded or whatever, andit impacted you in a harmful way
(24:00):
and caused you pain.
But my intention wasn't tocause you pain and I would be
very cautious of um of I thinkforgiveness is possible but I
would be very cautious ofengaging in this process with
the intention of moving forwardwith the relationship, uh, when
(24:20):
it's with somebody who has thatintention to cause you harm.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, and I think the bottom line is whether you are
the one who made the mistake orthe one who's doing the
forgiving.
If you need help, please reachout.
There are therapists, there arecoaches who are trained I am
(24:44):
one.
I mean, this is what I helpcouples do all the time is to
forgive, to ask for forgivenessand to be forgiven.
Like to help couples throughthis process.
So there is help.
There are couples who havesurvived massive infidelity
(25:04):
affairs, addictions, all kindsof, even abuse, and even seeing
that makes my heart clench justa little bit, because abuse is a
very, very, very difficultthing to forgive.
But I've seen it happen and soyou know there are trained
professionals that can help.
(25:25):
So don't carry this on your own.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I'm going to.
I'm going to recap with acouple of myths about
forgiveness, because we've kindof hit on a few, but I want to
hit on a bunch of them so thatpeople just up up up front.
This might clear up somemisconceptions.
Forgiveness does not mean thatyou can don't hurtful, hurtful
behavior.
It is not just about moving onfrom hard stuff.
(25:49):
It's not like that.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I will just move past this.
Do not sleep under the rug.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It doesn't mean you forget what happened.
It doesn't mean that you propup your partner and put them in
a one-up position and putyourself in a one-down position,
or vice versa.
Forgiveness is not a naturalprocess.
It doesn't come naturally.
It very rarely happens byaccident.
It's an intentional choice.
(26:15):
This is another myth I want tothrow on there, that resentment
is a bad thing.
Resentment is a great signalthat there's something going on
in your relationship that hasn'tbeen dealt with.
So you know, don't?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
judge resentment.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Resentment is, is a side effect of.
So if you're feeling resentmentin your marriage and you're
guilting yourself about it, it'slike, ah no, get curious about
it, figure out what has goneunaddressed in your relationship
and then, um, the last one islike you can feel your way back
to trust.
I just don't.
I don't think you can feel youryour way back.
I think you, you need to makean active choice.
(26:55):
It's a process.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
So yeah, but it is.
It is like any journey of faith.
It's like stepping out into thedarkness and letting the light
follow you.
You know, it's, it's reallyabout you know, following this,
these steps that you laid out.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Engage your will, alison Armstrong, this is Alison
Armstrong's framework.
You have to be willing.
So you have to say this isgoing to happen.
I'm ready.
I'm ready to stop punishing mypartner and not and and and,
punishing myself in a way by notletting me have the marriage
and the relationship that I want.
Like, how long am I willing tohold us in this, in this frozen,
(27:34):
hold your breath state?
Where will we?
Won't we?
Are we going to move past this?
Are we not going to?
How long am I?
How long am I going to decidethat we're going to stay here?
It's like okay, this has to endat some point.
I get to make the choice.
When it is so, it's a willingchoice that doesn't happen by
accident.
Number two is you have to assumeyour partner had a valid reason
for doing what they, what theydid.
(27:56):
That made sense to them at thetime.
It doesn't need to be a goodreason, but there's a valid
reason that made sense to themin that moment.
And you can get curious aboutthat, what that was, or you can
just assume that they did havethat, or you can draw the
conclusion yourself.
But you got.
You got to let them off thehook because if they have to
explain and rationalize why theymade the decision, you will not
be healed.
And then the last is.
(28:16):
It's like what we talked aboutin the complaint episode You're
not allowed to complain aboutsomething you never asked for.
You need to.
You need to tell them what youneed from them in order for you
to forgive them.
And once they've given it toyou, that's when you make the
choice.
Whether that's words, whetherthat's actions, I need you to
show me over the next threemonths that you're going to show
up this way for me.
I need you to distance yourselffrom these friends.
(28:38):
I need you to make a.
You know, I need you to help mefeel safe again.
And here's what will help mefeel safe.
Whatever that thing is, youneed to ask for it and then,
when they give it to you, youneed to make the choice and let
them know through your actionsand your words.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yep, we knocked it out of the park.
That was so good.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
It's a hard thing to do.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, so you're going to want to listen to last
week's episode and this week'sepisode, and if you need help
through this process, pleasereach out.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yep, I've got a seven day workshop I can send people
through, or maybe five days, Idon't know, but it's like.
I think it's like the trustworkshop or the trust challenge.
You can find it at the EpicMarriage Club or, if you want,
like hands-on help, monica'samazing.
But this can be a reallydifficult process to go through.
I empathize with anybody havingto go through it.
(29:29):
I've, we've, all been throughit.
The more you practice it, thebetter you get at it.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
So true, so true, and it's part of the human
experience, it's part of beinghere on earth is learning how to
forgive even when it's reallyhard.
So thank you guys for listening, and we will be here next week
with another great episode.
So until then, happy marriaging.
Hello and welcome to the Secrets of Happily Ever
After podcast.
I'm your host, Monica Tanner,with my co-host, Nate Bagley,
and last week we talked aboutbreaches of trust and how to
handle that if you have causedyour partner pain in some way,
big or small, and this week wewant to talk about if you are
(00:22):
the partner who has been hurt,how do you find it within
yourself to forgive, even whenit's really difficult?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
And I'll just kind of summarize, If you haven't
listened to last week's episodeNate and I did a role play, a
scenario where Nate made areally bad error and he lied
about where he was and we wentthrough an entire role play
where he apologized, he tookresponsibility for uh, for what
(00:52):
his actions.
He um did his best to understandmy experience and why it would
be hurtful to me.
And then we worked together andhe didn't expect me to just
forgive him immediately.
And then we worked together andhe didn't expect me to just
forgive him immediately.
And then we worked together onsome sort of way that he
promised me it wouldn't happenagain, like things that I could
(01:15):
do, you know, whether it's totrack his location or whatever
how we could work so that Icould rebuild that trust.
And on this week's episode,what we want to talk about is
when you've been hurt by yourpartner, which inevitably will
happen in a long-term committedrelationship they're going to
make mistakes, they're going todo things, and how do we find it
(01:37):
within ourselves to forgive,even when they're taking full
responsibility, or maybe they'renot, maybe they're not doing
all of the great things thatNate exemplified, and we still
want to forgive our partner.
How do we do that?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
side that we talked about in our previous episode.
A lot in the relationship worldit's like how do you clean up
your mess?
How do you be responsible?
How do you you know?
How do you, how do you step upyour game and make, make
something right that you madewrong?
We put a lot of focus on theperson who is who has screwed up
, needing to rectify their ways.
But I've seen it over and overand over again If you don't, if
the other person who's been hurtdoesn't have a clear path to
(02:27):
forgive, what happens is you.
Um, you get stuck in thisconstant state of anticipation,
of waiting for the other shoe todrop.
It feels like your relationship, you're in your relationship.
You're just holding your breath, you're waiting for that
partner to screw up again.
You're like trying to willyourself into intimacy, but
you're also just kind ofconstantly terrified that the
(02:50):
thing that your partner did thathurt you, that that you're
going to find out tomorrow ornext week or next year that
they're right back to doing thatthing again, that they've or
they've made another similarchoice that's going to blind
sides you and sends you backinto that space of betrayal and
hurt and sadness and distrust,and that's a scary thought and
that is not a place for amarriage to be, where you have
(03:12):
one person who is sincere andwants to be forgiven and the
other person who's just holdingtheir breath and they might even
verbally say I forgive you, butif it's not meant like that,
it's an icky place for bothpeople to be.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, and another piece of this that we talk about
in relational life therapy,which is the program that I just
finished, is we call thistransmission reception work.
So, whether it's a betrayal, oreven just when you're working
in therapy, when partner Astarts giving partner B what
(03:48):
they've asked for, a lot oftimes partner B will start to
and work with partner B onreceiving what is given.
So, whether that requiresforgiveness or that just
(04:11):
requires accepting the offeringthat partner A is giving, it's
really really, really important.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, I've seen partner B often go to a place of
like you haven't sufferedenough, like I need to make you
suffer longer.
You need to be in the penaltybox for for a longer period of
time because hurt me and youneed to feel that.
Yeah, I don't, yeah, and and and.
That can be like when you'rekeeping score of of pain.
That can be really um, that canprohibit both of your enjoyment
(04:41):
of the marriage.
And it's like how long are yougoing to keep your partner in
jail before you set them free tobe part of the relationship
again?
And like the dynamic and thishappens a lot in marriage where
when you feel like you're right,you go into a one-up position,
a position of superioritygrandiosity is another word that
(05:03):
gets used a lot and wheneveryou do that, you immediately put
your partner in a one downposition, an inferior position,
and nobody wants to be in arelationship where they feel
like the other partner is just.
This always has the moral highground and they're always the
one who's wrong and bad andmistaken and in the wrong.
That's not a fun place to be.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
And the problem with grandiosity, any type of
grandiosity, is it feels, sogood it feels good to ride in
the one-up position, so it'shard to get the partner who's
gone one-up to come down becauseit feels good up there.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
It does feel really good up there.
It feels justified, it feelsvery like I'm the good person
and you're the bad person.
It feels good to be the goodperson and I think it's just
important to note that it isjust as possible for the person
who made the mistake and brokethe trust in the first place
that could end the relationship.
That could end the relationship.
(06:02):
But it's just as likely for theperson who refuses to forgive
and demands that their partnerremain in jail for the rest of
their marriage to end therelationship.
It's just as possible.
And it may not be like actuallyending up in divorce or a
breakup.
It might just be like this isthe end of the relationship as
we knew it.
We're never going to get out ofthis place where you're never
(06:29):
going to trust me again andwe're just going to be roommates
.
We're going to be stuck.
We're going to be like we'renot going to have that passion,
that connection ever again,because you won't allow for it.
You can't let go of whathappened in the past and that
type of ending the relationshipis very, is very real and very
present in a lot ofrelationships.
So let's talk about how to notget stuck there.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Exactly Because I just want to bring this out.
You kind of said it, but thepartner that is in unforgiveness
, the partner that's having ahard time forgive, is often very
withholding, and so that's avery-.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Say more about withholding.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So emotionally, physically, sexually withholding
.
So if I can't forgive you forsomething that you've done, I
wanna withhold love from you.
I wanna withhold attention.
I'm not gonna-.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
You don't deserve it.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, I'm not gonna follow your bids.
I'm not gonna let you.
I'm not gonna wanna be intimatewith you.
I'm not gonna want to do thingsfor you.
I'm not going to let you.
I'm not going to want to beintimate with you.
I'm not going to want to dothings for you.
I'm not going to be generous,right?
So that's a very withholdingposition.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
It's a very contemptuous place to be.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Exactly, exactly.
So, one up, one down, bothcarry a lot of contempt, but
it's just is the contempt turnoutwards or is the contempt
inwards?
And so if you're riding in theone up position and you're
feeling grandiose and you'rewithholding from your partner,
it feels good, it feels, likeyou said, justified, and so
(07:54):
today we want to talk about howdo you come down, how do you
forgive your partner?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
You want to know where I would suggest you start.
Yeah, um, there is this.
Uh, I want to give the personcredit, alison Armstrong.
Um, I'm going to read you thequote and then I'm going to
explain what it means she saysif you are not willing to be
healed, the chances of you beinghealed by accident are slim.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Um.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And the word willing is something that she really
hammers home in her workshopthat I attended or listened to.
I can't remember where I heardthis, but I wrote it down and it
really stuck with me.
If you're not willing to behealed, the likelihood of it
happening by accident is slim.
So when she uses the wordwilling, she clarifies she's
(08:45):
like.
Willing does not mean like oh,I'm open to it.
If it happens, like oh, if itoccurs and it takes me by
surprise, I'll roll with it,like I'll accept it.
She said willing in thiscontext means you are engaging
your will, you are going to willsomething to happen.
Like think about I don't know,like when is the time in your
(09:06):
life?
Can you think of a time, monica, where you're like I'm going to
, this is going to happen,whether it doesn't matter what
anybody else wants, I'm going towill this into existence, I'm
going to will this intohappening.
Can you think of a time in yourlife where you've willed
something?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Wow, that was like that.
I mean, I can think of timeswhen, yeah, when I needed to get
back in shape, when I needed torehab, like my knee or
something like that.
And you know, like I remember atime in high school when I tore
my ACL.
It was my senior year, I toreit very beginning of my soccer
season and I was bound anddetermined.
(09:42):
Nobody was going to stop me notthe doctors, not my parents,
not anyone who would tell methat I couldn't rehab my knee
and be back for the statetournament Right, and I did yes.
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Bound and determined Nobody's going to stop me.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Ain't nothing getting in my way?
No excuses, this is happening.
That is what what she means bywilling in this context.
So you're not going to gethealed by accident.
So there has to come a point inyour, in your, in this process,
where you're like I'm done.
I'm done making my partnersuffer for the choice that they
made, over and over and overagain, I'm done holding this
(10:17):
over their head.
I'm done like getting, likefeeling resentful and hurt.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yes, so that's so important.
Let me make one distinctionbefore we go into this.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You can't forgive what's still going on.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So you have to be at a point.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
You have to have some evidence.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yes, where the breaches of trust or whatever is
causing you to be hurt by yourpartner has stopped Like you
have like, if.
If your partner continues to dothe same behavior over and,
over and over again, that hurtsyou.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
You've got to get some help.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, let's use let's .
Let's use a.
Let's go back to the examplethat we used in the last episode
.
So I know you recapped itreally quick, but like, let's
say you know I had I.
I told you I was going to stayat work and then I ended up
going out with my friendsdrinking.
I came home the next day, wehad a conversation and I told
you I said, hey, this is reallyimportant for me to show you
(11:17):
that I'm not going to make thismistake again.
I realized I screwed up.
Now let's fast forward three tosix months, can?
you do it again, you know maybewe've gone to therapy, maybe
I've let you, like, track mylocation for a while, if that
was something that you reallythought was important.
I have my own, um, my ownopinions on whether or not
that's something, but, like,whatever, let's say that's
(11:39):
something that we did.
Let's say, like, let's just saythat we've been working on it
for three, for three to sixmonths, um, and it and I have
shown a lot of evidence.
I'm like honoring my word, I'mcoming home, I'm being
transparent about what's goingon.
I've stopped hanging out withthose friends.
I've prioritized the family.
I've shown you I mean business.
(12:00):
Maybe I went to AA meetings andI have a sponsor and I'm like
really consistent and and youcan just you sense, you can see
the evidence that I'm I'mserious and I feel really bad
for making that really stupidchoice.
And also, maybe for these lastthree months, you've been a
(12:22):
little reluctant to engage,engage in that relationship the
way that you had in the past,because you're protecting
yourself from being hurt again.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Okay, so now it's time for me to forget, right?
Because it's not happening anylonger.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Right.
So you have evidence that it'snot happening any longer.
We are not in an abusivesituation where somebody is
exploiting and taking advantageof you.
You have a contrite, apologetic, earnest husband who knows he
screwed up and is making anhonest effort to make it right
and to not rush you to thatdecision.
But also he's kind of sick ofbeing in the doghouse.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah so how do I find it within me to forgive?
What are the steps?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah.
So the first thing is is youhave to be willing and needs to
start with like I'm ready andain't nothing getting in my way
of of me having the marriagethat I want, which means I need
to let go.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah.
So what would that look likefor you, like at what, let's say
, you start to see this evidence, talk to talk me through this,
this perspective shift.
For you, like at what point doyou get to this place where it's
like, oh man, how long am Igoing to, you know, let this go
on.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah.
So I think for me, I thinkprobably a first step would be
gosh, that is really hard.
A first step for me would be toto let.
I think if I was unwilling toforgive you for hurting me, I
would have a.
I would hold a really tightgrip on my story.
(13:58):
My story is I can't trust youbecause you lied to me and you
went out that night and you knowI've got this whole story about
how you don't care about me andyou do things behind my back,
and so I think the first stepfor me in really finding
forgiveness is to loosen my gripon that story and let it be,
nate made a mistake.
(14:19):
He didn't mean to hurt me.
He didn't realize you know whattype of effect that would have
on me.
Maybe he is really sorry andmaybe he's never going to do it
again.
So you just, piece by piece,loosen the grip on that story
(14:40):
that you're a dirt bag andyou're just going to lie to me.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's great.
So so you're starting to loosenyour grip on that story?
Yeah, that's great.
So you're starting to loosenyour grip on that story.
(15:03):
The next step that AlisonArmstrong has in her process
mirrors that a lot, she says thesecond step after you decide
you need to be healed is if theyhave to justify, explain or
rationalize to you why they didwhat they did to hurt you.
So if they're spending all theirtime and energy explaining like
, look, this is why I did this,or whatever, then you're never
going to get the healing thatyou need, because it's going to
(15:25):
be about them and not about you.
It's going to be about theirneed to feel, um, to feel like
off the hook, or or to help youunderstand why they did what
they did, and not not the focuson, like what do you need to be
healed?
And so, um, the best way to dothat is to assume that they had
a good reason for doing whatthey did, assuming that they
(15:46):
assume that they were doing thebest they could given the
circumstances that they were in,that they weren't, they weren't
blatantly misbehaving, theydidn't have a specific vendetta
against you.
Like they're there, they didn'tmake that choice because they
were trying to hurt you, thatthey were trying to destroy your
relationship.
They were making that choicefor a reason that made sense to
them at the time.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, and I think that is that chunk that you just
said is really important itmade sense to them at the time.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
The reality is, you probably just weren't thinking
about me.
You probably were just thinkingabout yourself, which happens
sometimes to us as humansthinking about our own stuff and
we don't think about therepercussions for the people
that we love.
Yeah, and so that probably isvery valid.
You were not thinking about meat the time.
You were being very selfish andyou just did the thing you
(16:36):
didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
In some cases it's selfish, in some cases it's not.
Yeah, you're trying to protectme.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Maybe you're trying to protect me from knowing you
know that you had a drinkingproblem or whatever.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
whatever the case is, or like I mean and it might
help to be curious about thisMaybe you have conversations
about this over time to gain anunderstanding of why the choice
got made, without beingaccusational, just like maybe
that's what we talk about intherapy is like hey, you know
what made you feel like youneeded to hide that from from me
?
Maybe it's we have a history ofyou getting really angry at me
(17:08):
when I want to do something formyself and I never, ever get a
chance to go socialize and haveguilty or so the only way I can
cultivate a friendship outsideof work is to lie about it.
That may not be the case.
Maybe the maybe the case is.
I have a history growing upwhere if I did something wrong,
my parents would just like layinto me, and they would.
(17:29):
They would.
They used a lot of shame tomake me feel small and bad and
wrong.
And what I learned growing upwas that if you do something
self-indulgent or a little alittle selfish, that it's better
to hide it than it is to behonest about it, because you'll
just get punished and that's agood than it is to be honest
about it, because you'll justget punished, and that's a good
(17:50):
thing.
It doesn't excuse the behavior,but it's an understanding of
like.
Oh, he wasn't doing this tohurt me.
He was doing this because of.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah, and so the reality is is you made a mistake
?
Yeah, and you are willing to dowhat it takes to make it up to
me.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Right, I'm willing.
Now can you be willing to letit go?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Exactly, exactly.
Can I be willing to allow youto make that mistake and then,
you know, be forgiven and get ablank slate Right.
And I think you know, if you'relistening to this and you're
you're religious, you know thatmakes sense Like the like
(18:33):
heavenly father forgives us.
We should be able to forgiveothers, right.
But if you're not religious,then just realize, as humans we
make mistakes and if we don'twant to be, you know, on the
hook for every single mistakewe've ever made, we better learn
how to let people off the hookwhen they let us down or make a
(18:54):
mistake because it's going tohappen.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yep.
So first, be willing.
Second is, assume they had agood reason for doing what they
were doing.
And then the last step in thisprocess is you need to tell your
partner what you need from themor want from them in order to
heal you.
And most often, um, it goesback to, uh, what I've noticed
(19:20):
in my life and you can tell meif you're wrong, if I'm wrong
here, if you don't share this,but, um, oftentimes it's just
there's, there's a certain,there's words that I need to
hear, and if you can say thesewords, if you can say the words
to me and say and mean them,then, like something magical
happens and and it just liftsthis burden off my shoulders,
(19:44):
like really interesting becausefor me it's a feeling.
I need to feel something fromyou, I need to feel important to
you, I need to feel umconsidered by you it's not
necessarily the words, but it'sa feeling so you've seen this
evidence of me like making youfeel important over the last
couple of months, and then wesit down to have a conversation
(20:05):
and you can say like, hey, I,I'm ready to move past this yeah
, yeah, um.
Yeah, um, here, here's what Ijust.
I just.
This is the last thing I need.
I just need to tell, I need youto tell me that I'm the most
important thing to you in yourlife.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
And.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
I need you to mean it and I need, I need you to tell
me that, like that, I matter toyou and that you're not going to
.
You're not going to, you're notgoing to make a big choice like
that again, without talking tome and being honest about it in
the future.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And if you can, if you can tell me that and mean it
, I think I, I don't know, maybeI'm like putting the words in
your mouth, but what in thissituation?
Like what, what?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
would be.
That's really interesting,cause it's different for you
than it is for me, right, it's.
It's about words and sentences.
For you that you know, beingable to feed somebody those
sentences is that's great, right.
For me, it's a feeling like Ineed to feel that you care about
me, you know for me to you knowbe, able to restore that trust
(21:09):
in you.
But I think, no matter what,what that is, what, no matter
what it is that you need to beable to feel healed from it.
I think forgiveness is always anact of faith and the reality is
and you know, you learn thiswhen you're little kids and you
know, I've heard it a milliontimes but it is really, really
(21:30):
true.
Forgive like, uh, you know,holding a grudge or, you know,
not letting go of something, islike drinking poison and
expecting the other person todie.
Like we have to be able to forourselves, like for our own sake
, be able to forgive.
And I really want to like sendthis message out to anyone who's
(21:53):
listening, like you know I hopethat you know, if you're
listening and you're carryingsomething in your marriage
that's really hard, that's hardto forgive.
That's something that's stillgoing on.
I just I want to let you knowthat, even though you forgive,
you can still.
(22:14):
You still have a choice.
You can forgive your partnerfor lying to you repeatedly.
That doesn't mean you have tostay in the marriage.
Yeah, you always have agency.
But to be able to forgive is tofree yourself to make a good
choice.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, forgiveness is not an endorsement of the
behavior.
Exactly, forgiveness is notcontinuing to punish them for
the choice that they made a long, long time ago.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Or a short time ago.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Is it something that you can live with and carry on?
Do you want to to mend thatrelationship and that trust, or
do you want to forgive and moveon to another relationship or to
another?
You know situation but eitherway, being able to forgive
before you make the decisionwhether to stay or whether to go
is going to be really healingfor you.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
And help you make a better decision for yourself.
And I'll just want to reiterate, or maybe say in a different
way, what you said at thebeginning this process only
works one in a situation.
That's not like if the personis still actively making a bad
choice.
That's that doesn't work.
And also if somebody isintentionally hurting you.
That's a different situationentirely Like.
(23:37):
This process works largely forpeople who in a situation where,
like I, made this choice yes, Iwas selfish, but it wasn't with
the intent to harm.
I wasn't doing this likemaliciously to try and hurt you.
Specifically, I made a choicethat might've been selfish or
absent-minded or whatever, andit impacted you in a harmful way
(24:00):
and caused you pain.
But my intention wasn't tocause you pain and I would be
very cautious of um of I thinkforgiveness is possible but I
would be very cautious ofengaging in this process with
the intention of moving forwardwith the relationship, uh, when
(24:20):
it's with somebody who has thatintention to cause you harm.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, and I think the bottom line is whether you are
the one who made the mistake orthe one who's doing the
forgiving.
If you need help, please reachout.
There are therapists, there arecoaches who are trained I am
(24:44):
one.
I mean, this is what I helpcouples do all the time is to
forgive, to ask for forgivenessand to be forgiven.
Like to help couples throughthis process.
So there is help.
There are couples who havesurvived massive infidelity
(25:04):
affairs, addictions, all kindsof, even abuse, and even seeing
that makes my heart clench justa little bit, because abuse is a
very, very, very difficultthing to forgive.
But I've seen it happen and soyou know there are trained
professionals that can help.
(25:25):
So don't carry this on your own.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I'm going to.
I'm going to recap with acouple of myths about
forgiveness, because we've kindof hit on a few, but I want to
hit on a bunch of them so thatpeople just up up up front.
This might clear up somemisconceptions.
Forgiveness does not mean thatyou can don't hurtful, hurtful
behavior.
It is not just about moving onfrom hard stuff.
(25:49):
It's not like that.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
I will just move past this.
Do not sleep under the rug.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It doesn't mean you forget what happened.
It doesn't mean that you propup your partner and put them in
a one-up position and putyourself in a one-down position,
or vice versa.
Forgiveness is not a naturalprocess.
It doesn't come naturally.
It very rarely happens byaccident.
It's an intentional choice.
(26:15):
This is another myth I want tothrow on there, that resentment
is a bad thing.
Resentment is a great signalthat there's something going on
in your relationship that hasn'tbeen dealt with.
So you know, don't?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
judge resentment.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Resentment is, is a side effect of.
So if you're feeling resentmentin your marriage and you're
guilting yourself about it, it'slike, ah no, get curious about
it, figure out what has goneunaddressed in your relationship
and then, um, the last one islike you can feel your way back
to trust.
I just don't.
I don't think you can feel youryour way back.
I think you, you need to makean active choice.
(26:55):
It's a process.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
So yeah, but it is.
It is like any journey of faith.
It's like stepping out into thedarkness and letting the light
follow you.
You know, it's, it's reallyabout you know, following this,
these steps that you laid out.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Engage your will, alison Armstrong, this is Alison
Armstrong's framework.
You have to be willing.
So you have to say this isgoing to happen.
I'm ready.
I'm ready to stop punishing mypartner and not and and and,
punishing myself in a way by notletting me have the marriage
and the relationship that I want.
Like, how long am I willing tohold us in this, in this frozen,
(27:34):
hold your breath state?
Where will we?
Won't we?
Are we going to move past this?
Are we not going to?
How long am I?
How long am I going to decidethat we're going to stay here?
It's like okay, this has to endat some point.
I get to make the choice.
When it is so, it's a willingchoice that doesn't happen by
accident.
Number two is you have to assumeyour partner had a valid reason
for doing what they, what theydid.
(27:56):
That made sense to them at thetime.
It doesn't need to be a goodreason, but there's a valid
reason that made sense to themin that moment.
And you can get curious aboutthat, what that was, or you can
just assume that they did havethat, or you can draw the
conclusion yourself.
But you got.
You got to let them off thehook because if they have to
explain and rationalize why theymade the decision, you will not
be healed.
And then the last is.
(28:16):
It's like what we talked aboutin the complaint episode You're
not allowed to complain aboutsomething you never asked for.
You need to.
You need to tell them what youneed from them in order for you
to forgive them.
And once they've given it toyou, that's when you make the
choice.
Whether that's words, whetherthat's actions, I need you to
show me over the next threemonths that you're going to show
up this way for me.
I need you to distance yourselffrom these friends.
(28:38):
I need you to make a.
You know, I need you to help mefeel safe again.
And here's what will help mefeel safe.
Whatever that thing is, youneed to ask for it and then,
when they give it to you, youneed to make the choice and let
them know through your actionsand your words.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yep, we knocked it out of the park.
That was so good.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
It's a hard thing to do.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, so you're going to want to listen to last
week's episode and this week'sepisode, and if you need help
through this process, pleasereach out.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yep, I've got a seven day workshop I can send people
through, or maybe five days, Idon't know, but it's like.
I think it's like the trustworkshop or the trust challenge.
You can find it at the EpicMarriage Club or, if you want,
like hands-on help, monica'samazing.
But this can be a reallydifficult process to go through.
I empathize with anybody havingto go through it.
(29:29):
I've, we've, all been throughit.
The more you practice it, thebetter you get at it.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
So true, so true, and it's part of the human
experience, it's part of beinghere on earth is learning how to
forgive even when it's reallyhard.
So thank you guys for listening, and we will be here next week
with another great episode.
So until then, happy marriaging.
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