February 25, 2025 • 29 mins
Trust is an essential foundation of relationships, but sometimes it gets broken. This week, Nate and I dive into the complexities of restoring damaged trust, providing valuable insights and actionable strategies.
• Definition of trust and its importance in relationships
• Exploring types of hurts: big and small
• Discussing personal responsibility in rebuilding trust
• Effective communication strategies for addressing trust issues
• The vital role of consistency and ongoing actions in trust repair
• Emphasizing that healing is not a one-time conversation, but an ongoing process
Remember to take responsibility for your actions and truly understand your partner's feelings to foster resilience in your relationship.
If you need help with this process, please reach out for a complimentary consultation here: https://tidycal.com/onthebrightersideoflife/call
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Monica Tanner (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to the Secrets of Happily
Ever After podcast with me,monica Tanner, and my co-host,
nate Bagley.
So excited to hang out with youtoday, nate.
I am really excited about ourtopic that you totally suggested
, so why don't you introduce thetopic we're going to be talking
about today?
Nate Bagley (00:20):
Lucky me.
Monica Tanner (00:23):
We're going to talk about you too, but getting
lucky.
Nate Bagley (00:27):
But the topic I want to talk about today is
restoring trust.
So whenever you're in along-term committed relationship
, there's going to be a momentwhen you hurt each other, you
hurt your partner.
Or it might be a big hurt, orit might be a small hurt.
Monica Tanner (00:46):
Give some examples like a big hurt You're
talking about, like eitheremotional or, uh, sexual maybe
uh, you want an examples of abig hurt or a small hurt.
Let's start with a big one andthen small one.
Nate Bagley (00:59):
Oh big hurt could be like you cheat on your
partner or you, um, you cross aboundary that you know is like a
really sensitive boundary, oryou say something, um, that you
really didn't maybe mean to sayin the heat of the moment and
you you knew it was somethingthat would like, maybe hit a
(01:20):
sensitive spot.
It was like intended to to hurt.
Monica Tanner (01:23):
Yeah I would say in general, I think not.
Nate Bagley (01:28):
I think like a a big lie of omission, or or yeah,
hiding, hiding something bigfrom your partner or like a big,
like, maybe debt or uh, or likean addiction or, um, uh, a big
secret about yourself.
Yeah, I mean there's lots of,there's lots of things in it and
(01:49):
like what I've learned in myover a decade of working with
and talking to couples andexperts is that what's big for
some couples could be somethingreally small and manageable for
others, and vice versa.
And so you know where onecouple might be like really
distraught over, let's say, ahusband looking at pornography,
(02:10):
another couple, it's no big deal.
Or one where one couple like ifsomebody forgets the
anniversary, it may not be a bigdeal.
The other couple, it might belike a huge deal.
Or like a specific, like amilestone event or an
anniversary or something likethat.
So you know, sometimes youdon't even know what the thing
is until it happens, and thenyou're like, oh, that was
something I was not aware of,that would that was going to.
(02:32):
I didn't realize it was thiswould hurt you that badly.
Monica Tanner (02:34):
Yeah, and some examples of small hurts could be
yeah, saying something in theheat of an argument.
Nate Bagley (02:39):
Yeah, breaking up breaking a promise, saying
saying like I'll be home at 530and being home at 6, or
forgetting to put my dishes inthe sink, or being just
irritable and kind of cranky andgrumpy and snapping Get down on
each other.
Yeah, Rejecting a bid forconnection because you're not in
(03:01):
a good mood there's lots oflittle things that we do
throughout the day or justforgetting something, just
absentmindedly forgettingsomething important I forgot to
pick up the milk, like like youasked me to, on the way home
from work.
Monica Tanner (03:16):
And I realized that's an inconvenience, or even
something ongoing, like beingon your phone when your
partner's trying to talk to you.
Nate Bagley (03:19):
That could start out as something small and turn
into something big.
Monica Tanner (03:21):
Yeah.
Nate Bagley (03:22):
Yeah, that's a good , that's a good example.
Okay, all, and turn intosomething big.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good,that's a good example.
Okay, all right.
So we're hurting each other,we're disappointing each other.
Where we are eroding the trustthat we have in each other, it's
a natural thing.
We've referenced this quotemultiple times.
I'm going to butcher it, butJohn Gottman says that it's that
emotional entropy or relationalentropy thing that if all you
do is not screw things up inyour relationship, it's still
(03:44):
going to get worse over timebecause of relational entropy,
and you have to actively befighting against that.
And so just inherently, beingin relationship with somebody
you know, your trust is going todegrade.
You're going to accidentally dothings that are going to hurt
your partner.
So how do you, how do yourepair, how do you restore that
trust If your partner has felthurt or betrayed?
(04:06):
They don't feel like they cantrust you.
You don't feel like you cantrust your partner.
So there's two sides of thatequation.
How do I gain trust back?
And then, how do I give trustback, how do I learn to trust
again?
And so what I would love to dobecause I feel like this is a
skill set and a mindset that ifyou want to have a really
intimate, happily ever afterrelationship, you need to get
(04:28):
good at restoring trust andforgiving one another and moving
forward, because trust is thegateway to intimacy.
If you don't have trust insomebody, you're not going to
take your armor off around them,and so you need to be able to
restore that trust.
So how do you, how do yourestore that trust if we're
constantly breaking it?
Monica Tanner (04:46):
So important.
So are you talking about solike, is it the skill of the
hurt partner going to thepartner that's doing the hurting
, or is it you realize you'vedone something to hurt your
partner and how do you approach?
Nate Bagley (05:00):
it?
Yeah, I think it's both.
I think that I don't think youcan restore trust without both
of those skills in place.
If one person is willing tocome to the table and, in an
honest effort to like restoretrust, after maybe being the
person who was responsible forthe loss of trust, and the other
person is unwilling to receiveit, then you're not going to get
(05:21):
anywhere.
And just on the opposite side,if you have somebody who's
willing to give their partneranother chance, but the other
person is either not willing toask for it or they're
exploitative and they takeadvantage of their partner's
forgiveness, that's reallyproblematic as well.
So I think there needs to beclarity around the two parts,
the two sides of the coin.
(05:43):
So I wouldn't mind startingwith the.
Let's start with the personalresponsibility.
I screwed up, I made a mistake,I hurt you.
What do I need to do to getback to that good place?
And then let's go to the otherside and say, hey, yeah, I've
been hurt.
What do I need to do to get usback to that place that we want
(06:04):
to be at?
Monica Tanner (06:05):
Okay, yeah, so let's start with you screwed up,
nate.
How are you going to fix it?
Nate Bagley (06:19):
Oh yeah.
Well, the first thing I woulddo is is I want to gain a full
and complete understanding ofhow my choices impacted my
partner.
So taking responsibility fullresponsibility, not full, not
full responsibility for theirexperience, full responsibility
for understanding theirexperience.
Monica Tanner (06:33):
Yeah, I think that's an important distinction
to make.
Nate Bagley (06:37):
Validating their emotions and their experience
and is not the same as takingresponsibility for it.
So oftentimes I get hurt and alot of the hurt is
self-inflicted because I've madeup a story about what, like my
partner's intentions, or or I'veexaggerated the exaggerated in
(06:59):
my mind, what happened andcreated more hurt than there
needed to be.
And my partner's job in amoment like that is not for her
to take responsibility for mythoughts and my emotions, but in
an ideal world it would be herresponsibility.
Or if we were to flip it around, if I had hurt her, it would be
my responsibility to sit downand really just sit and
(07:19):
understand what.
What's hurting, what was yourthought process, what was your
experience, and then be able tosay, yeah, that makes sense.
Monica Tanner (07:28):
So what does that look like, nate?
Does that look like you?
Let's take an actual scenario.
So let's say you went outdrinking with your friends and
you lied to me about it and Ifound out.
I found some.
I found some text messages fromyou know whatever you guys
planning it and you told me thatyou were working late and okay,
(07:51):
so come home.
Nate Bagley (07:53):
I'm a little buzzed and you, you know what's
happened.
You're asleep.
Well, I don't know sitting upwaiting.
I walk in the door and you'resitting there and you go hey,
how was how's work?
Okay, yeah, let's have that.
Or you can just say like hey, Iknow you weren't at work, yeah,
yeah, well, first of all, don'thave the conversation when
(08:17):
you're drunk, so sober up first,let's.
Let's imply that maybe we're atthe next morning having a
conversation, right, and I sayhey, I know you're upset.
Monica Tanner (08:28):
Yeah.
Nate Bagley (08:29):
Now in my mind, here's the, here's the like,
here's the conscious thoughtthat I'm not going to say out
loud but this is, this is whythis is important.
You can make an assumptionabout why she's upset, or and
risk getting it wrong.
Or you can just not make thatassumption and not make an ass
out of yourself and just say hey, I can, I can tell you're upset
(08:51):
about what happened last night.
Um, before I jump to anyconclusions, uh, I just, I want
to hear you out.
Just tell me, tell me what'sgoing on for you.
Monica Tanner (09:03):
Yeah Well, I was sitting at home thinking you
were working to support ourfamily and you know I I put the
kids to bed, I put dinner awayand realized that you weren't
working at all.
You were at the bar, and thatreally upsets me.
Nate Bagley (09:21):
Yeah so is.
Can you tell me what, what,what part of I understand why
you're upset that?
It totally makes sense for youto be upset that I said I was
going to be one place and then Iwas in another place and you
made me think that you wereworking for our family and you
(09:45):
weren't yeah, yeah, and if youhad a guy's night.
Monica Tanner (09:49):
Why not just tell me what else are you hiding?
Nate Bagley (09:52):
yeah, yep, you are uh completely valid in in asking
that question and feeling thatway um, I just don't know if I
can trust you.
Yeah.
Monica Tanner (10:05):
I mean, how am I supposed to trust what you tell
me when you're telling me flatout lies?
Nate Bagley (10:10):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So I just want to make sure Iunderstand everything.
You're upset that one.
I lied to you about where I wasgoing to be.
One I lied to you about where Iwas going to be.
You're upset that.
(10:36):
Two I hung you out to dry andyou had to take care of the kids
and do everything by yourselfwhile I was out hanging out with
my friends.
Monica Tanner (10:41):
Three probably upset about not understanding
why I felt the need to hide thefact that I wanted to have a
guy's night.
No, I couldn't.
Nate Bagley (10:45):
I probably would have given you permission and
and I also understand why you'reupset about just like the abuse
of trust in general and now notknowing whether or not I'm
going to be telling the truth orlying about things in the
future.
Yep, you got it right, yeah.
Is there anything else that youneed me to understand?
Or did I get get like, do youthink I kind of have a good idea
(11:07):
of why you're upset with me?
Monica Tanner (11:09):
Yeah, I think you knew.
I think you knew before you didit.
Nate Bagley (11:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.
Monica Tanner (11:16):
You think you weren't going to get caught.
Nate Bagley (11:18):
Now we're moving into a different territory.
Now we're moving into thecategory, the next step.
But it's like that first partis all about not getting
defensive, not getting pissedyeah it's like I want.
I want to hear you out, I wantto understand your full
experience.
Do you feel, do you feel fullyunderstood there?
Monica Tanner (11:36):
like this is like side note I mean, I was waiting
up all night.
I didn't know if you're gonna,you know, get d d y.
I don't.
I mean, if you're gonna go homewith some other woman.
I mean, what was that?
What was I supposed to do?
Nate Bagley (11:48):
yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
You are.
Uh, I think those worries arevery valid as well.
I get it.
Monica Tanner (12:01):
I think if our roles were reversed, I'd be
feeling very similarly and whatam I supposed to tell the kids
when they're asking where's dad?
How come he's not here to tuckus in?
Nate Bagley (12:10):
Yeah, my choices last night put you in a really
unfair situation with the kidsas well.
Yeah, it is, you are.
You are absolutely entitled tobe angry.
I made a very bad choice lastnight.
That was a very, very dumb,selfish choice.
Monica Tanner (12:32):
Yeah, at least you know what are you going to
do about it.
Nate Bagley (12:35):
Yeah, I mean I don't think I can, I can't go
back in time and fix it.
So the first thing I can say isI'm I'm really sorry.
Truly, it was a.
It was a really immature,foolish, selfish decision that I
made last night and I totallyget that.
(12:59):
The impact that I had on yougoes much deeper than maybe I
had even anticipated.
I don't think I put a whole lotof thought into how much damage
it would do.
I probably thought think I puta whole lot of thought into how
much damage it would do.
I probably thought that itwouldn't do any damage because
I'd probably just get away withit and it wouldn't be a big deal
.
And I see now that that was justa really selfish, bad choice on
my part and I'm very sorry.
(13:21):
And the only thing I can doright now I feel is can commit
to.
I just I promise you it willnever happen again.
And I realized, I realized thatdoesn't fit, that doesn't fix
it in the moment.
But, like I mean, I'm open toalso hearing suggestions, but
(13:43):
what I can do right now ispromise that I will be honest
with you in the future and showand back that up with my actions
.
And I realized that I don'texpect you to forgive me and
just just give me like oh yeah,let me off the hook.
I'm not asking you to let meoff the hook, I'm.
I'm telling you that I realizedI screwed up and I'm making a
commitment to you right now thatI will do better and be better
(14:04):
and that this will never happenagain, and my hope is that you
will give me the chance to showthat to you.
Monica Tanner (14:10):
Okay.
Nate Bagley (14:12):
Is there anything that that you can think of that
I could do to help make that upto you?
Monica Tanner (14:18):
Well, I like that question.
I think that question is reallyimportant.
What can I do right now to makeit better If, whether small
hurt or a big hurt hurt?
I think that's a reallyimportant question for the
offender to ask.
Um, but yeah, I mean, I mightwant you to allow me to track
you.
I might want you to go intotherapy for your drinking.
(14:41):
I might want you to you take apause from hanging out with
those friends, because they'renot very good influence on you.
Nate Bagley (14:53):
Yeah, yeah, you want um I.
I realized that what I did waskind of um, I breached the
protocol of safety in ourrelationship, making you feel
safe, and part of that safety istrusting that I will do what I
say, what I will do, that I'mnot going to lie to you.
(15:14):
Part of that is that I'm goingto make good decisions and
choices.
And now what you're wanting nowthat you feel like that trust
and that safety has beenviolated, it sounds like what
you really want is you want tofeel safe again.
And, yeah, I'm totally open tohaving a conversation about what
(15:35):
I can do to help you feel safeagain, that I'm not going to go
out and make bad, selfishchoices that are going to impact
our marriage and our family andthe lives of our kids.
And, yeah, that's that'simportant to me too.
Monica Tanner (15:50):
Okay.
So, nate, I think that'sawesome, I think a lot of.
I mean.
I think if we were to summarizekind of what you did there, you
, you took ownership, you didn'tget defensive, you kind of let
me have my experience, myfeelings, you didn't try to
argue any of that.
You tried to give me what youcould and commit to me.
(16:11):
So I think those are all reallyimportant things If somebody's
listening and going.
Nate Bagley (16:16):
Yeah.
One other thing I want to throwin there is I didn't demand
immediate forgiveness.
Monica Tanner (16:21):
Yeah, right, exactly yeah, you, I hadn't the
choice to when I was ready.
Forgive you, um, but what ifyou, what if there's people out
there listening to them, like myspouse, would never be able to
do all of that.
Nate Bagley (16:36):
They would get defensive, they would shut down,
they would my spouse, meaninglike the role you played or the
role I played.
Monica Tanner (16:43):
What if somebody who is playing my role is like
my partner does that kind ofcrap all the time and when I
confront them about it theydon't act like you.
They they get defensive.
They tell me I have no right toknow their whereabouts all the
time they don't care about myexperience, then what?
Nate Bagley (17:05):
yeah, um, I mean, that's a different conversation.
Then we're not having a trustconversation anymore.
So if your intention in havinga conversation is to restore
trust, it should look.
It should look closer to whatwe, what we did.
Yeah, um, and I think it'simportant to set that intention
maybe from the beginning and saylike, hey, trust was hurt here.
Can we have a conversationabout it?
(17:26):
Um, if you're just trying toplay the gotcha game, like
caught you in the middle ofdoing something terrible and now
I like then we're in adifferent scenario, does that
make sense?
And and the the the examplethat we came up with here is a
is a more inflammatory moment,like catching somebody in an act
(17:48):
of big betrayal.
Like it's a.
It's probably not oneconversation, it's probably
multiple, multiple conversationsthat get you there.
And like, how do you even bringit up without inciting a lot of
emotion?
I think most people the way theywould want to initiate the
conversation in your shoes islike I know what you did.
(18:08):
Yeah, coming out the gateaccusatory, which will
immediately put the other personon the defensive.
And and I'm not going to judgethat at all I just I just think
that that's the reality is like.
If they, if they're lying toyou about a big thing, it's hard
to call them out on that and begentle, yeah.
Monica Tanner (18:36):
And I think, I think if you, if there's a
breach of trust like that inyour relationship and it's too
much to handle on your own,meaning your spouse is going to
get defensive.
You know you're going round andround in circles and you're not
repairing then I think it'simportant to seek some help.
I mean people ask when do Iknow it's time to get some help?
And it's when you can't handlewhat's happening in your
(18:58):
relationship on your own.
Nate Bagley (19:00):
Yeah, yeah, and I was.
And I just want to reiteratethat the example that we just
did like the example wassupposed to be an example of
somebody who knew that theyscrewed up, knowing that they
were attempting to restore trust, like this was not a.
This is what every one of theseconversations should look like.
This was not a model of whatyou look like when you're
confronting somebody if they'vebetrayed your trust.
It was a model of like I wastrying to model what if you've
(19:24):
screwed up?
How do you want to show up inone of these conversations?
And I want you to notice howmuch more smoothly it goes If
you show up the way that I thatI tried to show up in the
conversation with Monica,obviously like that we're
playing in ideal conditions here.
This is not like reflect ahundred percent what real life
is like, but if you're willingto just like not be defensive,
(19:45):
if you're willing to takeresponsibility, if you're
willing to remain curious, ifyou're willing to let your
partner sit in the emotions andbe mad or angry or betrayed and
not be like, well, I apologize,now get over it.
You know like there's a lot ofthings in that example that if
you do that it will acceleratethe healing, the forgiveness,
(20:06):
the restoration of trust.
And it might be multiple,multiple conversations where you
have to do that.
It's not one time.
But if you have broken thetrust of your partner, whether
it's a big thing or a smallthing, like what I tried to
emulate in that conversation,was I as close to an ideal as I
could muster up of how you couldshow up in a conversation to
(20:28):
give your partner the gift ofhey, I want to show you that I'm
worthy of trust again and and Iwant to take, and I want to, I
want to do my part to cleanthings up so that our
relationship can be a trustfilled relationship again.
Monica Tanner (20:41):
Yeah.
Nate Bagley (20:43):
So does not reflect I real life, but focus more,
focus less on what Monica saidand more on what I said in this
particular conversation.
Monica Tanner (20:55):
Yeah, what else, nate, do you think that's
important to address when you'retalking about repairing after a
?
Nate Bagley (21:01):
betrayal.
I think a lot of people thinkit's a one and done conversation
.
I think a lot of people thinkalso that um, like a grandiose
gesture, like an emotionalmoment, will just fix things.
And trust.
Trust is not built by grandiosegestures, by one-time moments.
(21:23):
Trust is a thing that's builtout of consistency.
It's a, it's small things doneover and over and over again to
show like, like the, the, the umadjectives that I would put in
the bucket along with trust todescribe a trusting relationship
is like there's predictability,there's safety, there's
(21:46):
consistency.
There's like a, a, a sense ofreassurance.
There's a I know, I can rely onyou to be there when, when I
need you.
It means um, there's, I have a.
I have a long history of youshowing up for me in the ways
that I, that I need the most,like all of those things are.
(22:06):
The are kind of in that bucketof trust.
It's not like you bought meflowers or you took me on a
vacation.
That's not trust.
That's like fun, that'sspontaneity, that's that's like
excitement, it's novelty, andthose things don't necessarily
yeah, it's important in arelationship, but that's a
different bucket.
Monica Tanner (22:24):
These things are foundational.
Nate Bagley (22:26):
These things, yeah, those things can strengthen
your relationship, but theydon't necessarily build trust.
Monica Tanner (22:30):
Yeah, the question are you going to be
there for me?
And I think it was reallysignificant in the conversation
you and I were having in thatrole play is you weren't
thinking about me.
You weren't thinking about metaking care of the kids and
having to tell them where youare and, you know, wondering if
you were even going to come home, like I want to know that
you're going to be there for me.
(22:51):
I want to know that you'rethinking about me and
considering my feelings Right,and so that's a big when there
are breaches of trust.
I think it's really importantto understand that in a
long-term committed relationship, your partner is expecting you
to be thinking about them, toconsider them in your decisions.
Nate Bagley (23:15):
Yep, and that comes for small things as well.
It's not just big things, it'salso small things.
Monica Tanner (23:20):
Mm-hmm.
Nate Bagley (23:21):
Yep, so you're going to have to have us.
You'll end up having similarconversations.
When, like, a similar thinghappened this week with my
family, where I had a plan I wasafter work the other day, I was
going to stop by the Verizonstore and pick up a new phone
because I'm overdue for anupgrade and I was like, sweet,
(23:43):
I'm going to stop and pick upthis phone.
And I called my wife and I waslike, hey, do you mind if I stop
and pick up this phone?
And she's like, actually, I'dreally prefer if you come home,
I have a friend who's goingthrough a hard time and they're
bringing the kids over to ourhouse.
And I was like, oh OK, totallyfine, I'll do the Verizon thing
tomorrow.
(24:04):
And then what happened is,throughout the night, the
expectations of the commitmentto taking care of the kids kept
changing, based off of theconversation that my wife was
having with her friend, and Iwasn't in the loop.
And so, anyway, things justkept happening.
And then I got frustratedbecause I felt it was like a
small damage of trust.
(24:25):
It wasn't a huge thing, damageof trust, it wasn't a huge thing
.
And, like the beautiful thingwas that my, my wife, sensed my
frustration and she did exactlywhat we just demonstrated.
She stepped up and she's likehey, I realized I screwed up.
I'm sorry, like I haven't.
I haven't been keeping you inthe loop, I kind of sprung this
on you and it's grown intosomething much a bigger
(24:47):
commitment than we hadanticipated.
I really appreciate you rollingwith the punches, because my
friend really needed helptonight and I was immediately
softened, just immediately.
That that one but yeah, beingable to just let your partner be
a little upset or hurt at aninconvenience or or, uh, an
uncommunicated expectation,allowing space for that and not
(25:09):
making it mean something aboutyou and holding onto yourself
and being like, yeah, Iunderstand why you're upset.
That totally makes sense andand I'm sorry, and we can do
better and I appreciate you.
Monica Tanner (25:24):
Yeah, yeah, I think we nailed it.
I think that is so important.
At the heart of reallyrepairing breaches of trust is
really letting your partner knowthat what they're going through
is okay and that you understand.
You know, you can understandthat your actions have created a
(25:45):
problem for them and that theiremotions about it are perfectly
warranted and okay, they're notcrazy, they're not, you know,
acting irrational or whatever,and that you want to make it
better.
Nate Bagley (25:59):
Yeah, and I think I think where I think you said it
beautifully, like what you thatyour choices have caused a
problem for them and I think oneof the reasons why that's a
difficult thing to cope with.
I just taught a workshop onthis yesterday.
But when we fall in love, thething that most of us fall in
(26:20):
love with is the version ofourselves that gets reflected
back at us by our partner.
Our partner sees us the way wewant to be seen.
They see us as funny, asinteresting, as kind, as
compassionate, as sexy andattractive and spontaneous and
it's like, yeah, you see me thatway.
That's awesome, cause that'sthe way I've always wanted to be
seen.
And then when you get inrelationship where things start
(26:42):
to degrade is your partnerstarts reflecting back at me
like you're a disappointment,it's frustrating to be in
relationship with you.
You're the cause of my sadness,you're the cause of my pain,
like I.
You know I hurt when I'm aroundyou sometimes and that is a
hard thing for the person.
That used to be like you usedto be the source of their
greatest joy and excitement andanticipation and love and and
(27:06):
passion.
Now you're the source of theirpain and irritation and
frustration and harm and thatmesses with our identity, the
version of ourselves that wethought we were.
And if you can't tolerate beingthe type of person who has the
capacity to hurt and disappointand impact others negatively,
(27:28):
then you're never going to be ina position where you can take
responsibility for it and cleanit up.
You're always going to be in astate of avoidance and dismissal
and and and yeah.
So part of being, part of beingin a mature relationship, an
adult marriage where you canactually use conflict as an
opportunity to create intimacyand connection, is you have to
(27:49):
be willing to admit that you arethe type of person.
There are parts of you that arehard to live with.
There are choices that you makethat cause other people pain and
inconvenience and frustrationand upset, and if you can't
tolerate that that part of youexists, then you're going to be
a really hard person to be inrelationship with.
(28:11):
But if you can, and you can justaccept I'm human and when I
make messes I'll just clean itup, then it makes things a lot
easier.
So I just think that a lot ofpeople really resist sitting in,
that I can be responsible forthis place, because it just we
your brain's number one job isto protect you from getting hurt
(28:33):
, and, um, it used to beprotecting you from getting
physically hurt and now, becauseit doesn't spend any real
energy on protecting you fromphysical threats, it spends all
of its energy protecting fromyou, emotional, from emotional
and relational ones, and so allyour brain wants to do is defend
any, any accusation orimplication that you might be
(28:53):
the type of person that couldhurt others.
Yeah, because that mightdisqualify you from being loved
or part of the group or accepted, and and if that fear wins,
then you're never going torebuild trust.
Monica Tanner (29:08):
Yeah, I think we need to close out this episode.
Nate Bagley (29:11):
Yeah, Sorry I went on a rant there, but well.
Monica Tanner (29:14):
I think you brought another episode which we
should do record soon, which ishow to forgive.
Nate Bagley (29:19):
Yeah.
Monica Tanner (29:20):
We'll do that on the next episode, but for now, I
think, being willing to admitwhen you screw up, take
responsibility for it, apologizereally, really make every
effort you can to understandyour partner's experience of
being hurt by you and not expectthem to get over it immediately
?
Yes, and work with them to makeit a better situation for both
(29:45):
of you.
Nate Bagley (29:47):
Perfect, yeah, okay , next episode.
Tune in to find out the otherhalf of the equation.
Monica Tanner (29:52):
Awesome, I love it All.
Right Bye for now.
Hello and welcome back to the Secrets of Happily
Ever After podcast with me,monica Tanner, and my co-host,
nate Bagley.
So excited to hang out with youtoday, nate.
I am really excited about ourtopic that you totally suggested
, so why don't you introduce thetopic we're going to be talking
about today?
Nate Bagley (00:20):
Lucky me.
Monica Tanner (00:23):
We're going to talk about you too, but getting
lucky.
Nate Bagley (00:27):
But the topic I want to talk about today is
restoring trust.
So whenever you're in along-term committed relationship
, there's going to be a momentwhen you hurt each other, you
hurt your partner.
Or it might be a big hurt, orit might be a small hurt.
Monica Tanner (00:46):
Give some examples like a big hurt You're
talking about, like eitheremotional or, uh, sexual maybe
uh, you want an examples of abig hurt or a small hurt.
Let's start with a big one andthen small one.
Nate Bagley (00:59):
Oh big hurt could be like you cheat on your
partner or you, um, you cross aboundary that you know is like a
really sensitive boundary, oryou say something, um, that you
really didn't maybe mean to sayin the heat of the moment and
you you knew it was somethingthat would like, maybe hit a
(01:20):
sensitive spot.
It was like intended to to hurt.
Monica Tanner (01:23):
Yeah I would say in general, I think not.
Nate Bagley (01:28):
I think like a a big lie of omission, or or yeah,
hiding, hiding something bigfrom your partner or like a big,
like, maybe debt or uh, or likean addiction or, um, uh, a big
secret about yourself.
Yeah, I mean there's lots of,there's lots of things in it and
(01:49):
like what I've learned in myover a decade of working with
and talking to couples andexperts is that what's big for
some couples could be somethingreally small and manageable for
others, and vice versa.
And so you know where onecouple might be like really
distraught over, let's say, ahusband looking at pornography,
(02:10):
another couple, it's no big deal.
Or one where one couple like ifsomebody forgets the
anniversary, it may not be a bigdeal.
The other couple, it might belike a huge deal.
Or like a specific, like amilestone event or an
anniversary or something likethat.
So you know, sometimes youdon't even know what the thing
is until it happens, and thenyou're like, oh, that was
something I was not aware of,that would that was going to.
(02:32):
I didn't realize it was thiswould hurt you that badly.
Monica Tanner (02:34):
Yeah, and some examples of small hurts could be
yeah, saying something in theheat of an argument.
Nate Bagley (02:39):
Yeah, breaking up breaking a promise, saying
saying like I'll be home at 530and being home at 6, or
forgetting to put my dishes inthe sink, or being just
irritable and kind of cranky andgrumpy and snapping Get down on
each other.
Yeah, Rejecting a bid forconnection because you're not in
(03:01):
a good mood there's lots oflittle things that we do
throughout the day or justforgetting something, just
absentmindedly forgettingsomething important I forgot to
pick up the milk, like like youasked me to, on the way home
from work.
Monica Tanner (03:16):
And I realized that's an inconvenience, or even
something ongoing, like beingon your phone when your
partner's trying to talk to you.
Nate Bagley (03:19):
That could start out as something small and turn
into something big.
Monica Tanner (03:21):
Yeah.
Nate Bagley (03:22):
Yeah, that's a good , that's a good example.
Okay, all, and turn intosomething big.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good,that's a good example.
Okay, all right.
So we're hurting each other,we're disappointing each other.
Where we are eroding the trustthat we have in each other, it's
a natural thing.
We've referenced this quotemultiple times.
I'm going to butcher it, butJohn Gottman says that it's that
emotional entropy or relationalentropy thing that if all you
do is not screw things up inyour relationship, it's still
(03:44):
going to get worse over timebecause of relational entropy,
and you have to actively befighting against that.
And so just inherently, beingin relationship with somebody
you know, your trust is going todegrade.
You're going to accidentally dothings that are going to hurt
your partner.
So how do you, how do yourepair, how do you restore that
trust If your partner has felthurt or betrayed?
(04:06):
They don't feel like they cantrust you.
You don't feel like you cantrust your partner.
So there's two sides of thatequation.
How do I gain trust back?
And then, how do I give trustback, how do I learn to trust
again?
And so what I would love to dobecause I feel like this is a
skill set and a mindset that ifyou want to have a really
intimate, happily ever afterrelationship, you need to get
(04:28):
good at restoring trust andforgiving one another and moving
forward, because trust is thegateway to intimacy.
If you don't have trust insomebody, you're not going to
take your armor off around them,and so you need to be able to
restore that trust.
So how do you, how do yourestore that trust if we're
constantly breaking it?
Monica Tanner (04:46):
So important.
So are you talking about solike, is it the skill of the
hurt partner going to thepartner that's doing the hurting
, or is it you realize you'vedone something to hurt your
partner and how do you approach?
Nate Bagley (05:00):
it?
Yeah, I think it's both.
I think that I don't think youcan restore trust without both
of those skills in place.
If one person is willing tocome to the table and, in an
honest effort to like restoretrust, after maybe being the
person who was responsible forthe loss of trust, and the other
person is unwilling to receiveit, then you're not going to get
(05:21):
anywhere.
And just on the opposite side,if you have somebody who's
willing to give their partneranother chance, but the other
person is either not willing toask for it or they're
exploitative and they takeadvantage of their partner's
forgiveness, that's reallyproblematic as well.
So I think there needs to beclarity around the two parts,
the two sides of the coin.
(05:43):
So I wouldn't mind startingwith the.
Let's start with the personalresponsibility.
I screwed up, I made a mistake,I hurt you.
What do I need to do to getback to that good place?
And then let's go to the otherside and say, hey, yeah, I've
been hurt.
What do I need to do to get usback to that place that we want
(06:04):
to be at?
Monica Tanner (06:05):
Okay, yeah, so let's start with you screwed up,
nate.
How are you going to fix it?
Nate Bagley (06:19):
Oh yeah.
Well, the first thing I woulddo is is I want to gain a full
and complete understanding ofhow my choices impacted my
partner.
So taking responsibility fullresponsibility, not full, not
full responsibility for theirexperience, full responsibility
for understanding theirexperience.
Monica Tanner (06:33):
Yeah, I think that's an important distinction
to make.
Nate Bagley (06:37):
Validating their emotions and their experience
and is not the same as takingresponsibility for it.
So oftentimes I get hurt and alot of the hurt is
self-inflicted because I've madeup a story about what, like my
partner's intentions, or or I'veexaggerated the exaggerated in
(06:59):
my mind, what happened andcreated more hurt than there
needed to be.
And my partner's job in amoment like that is not for her
to take responsibility for mythoughts and my emotions, but in
an ideal world it would be herresponsibility.
Or if we were to flip it around, if I had hurt her, it would be
my responsibility to sit downand really just sit and
(07:19):
understand what.
What's hurting, what was yourthought process, what was your
experience, and then be able tosay, yeah, that makes sense.
Monica Tanner (07:28):
So what does that look like, nate?
Does that look like you?
Let's take an actual scenario.
So let's say you went outdrinking with your friends and
you lied to me about it and Ifound out.
I found some.
I found some text messages fromyou know whatever you guys
planning it and you told me thatyou were working late and okay,
(07:51):
so come home.
Nate Bagley (07:53):
I'm a little buzzed and you, you know what's
happened.
You're asleep.
Well, I don't know sitting upwaiting.
I walk in the door and you'resitting there and you go hey,
how was how's work?
Okay, yeah, let's have that.
Or you can just say like hey, Iknow you weren't at work, yeah,
yeah, well, first of all, don'thave the conversation when
(08:17):
you're drunk, so sober up first,let's.
Let's imply that maybe we're atthe next morning having a
conversation, right, and I sayhey, I know you're upset.
Monica Tanner (08:28):
Yeah.
Nate Bagley (08:29):
Now in my mind, here's the, here's the like,
here's the conscious thoughtthat I'm not going to say out
loud but this is, this is whythis is important.
You can make an assumptionabout why she's upset, or and
risk getting it wrong.
Or you can just not make thatassumption and not make an ass
out of yourself and just say hey, I can, I can tell you're upset
(08:51):
about what happened last night.
Um, before I jump to anyconclusions, uh, I just, I want
to hear you out.
Just tell me, tell me what'sgoing on for you.
Monica Tanner (09:03):
Yeah Well, I was sitting at home thinking you
were working to support ourfamily and you know I I put the
kids to bed, I put dinner awayand realized that you weren't
working at all.
You were at the bar, and thatreally upsets me.
Nate Bagley (09:21):
Yeah so is.
Can you tell me what, what,what part of I understand why
you're upset that?
It totally makes sense for youto be upset that I said I was
going to be one place and then Iwas in another place and you
made me think that you wereworking for our family and you
(09:45):
weren't yeah, yeah, and if youhad a guy's night.
Monica Tanner (09:49):
Why not just tell me what else are you hiding?
Nate Bagley (09:52):
yeah, yep, you are uh completely valid in in asking
that question and feeling thatway um, I just don't know if I
can trust you.
Yeah.
Monica Tanner (10:05):
I mean, how am I supposed to trust what you tell
me when you're telling me flatout lies?
Nate Bagley (10:10):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So I just want to make sure Iunderstand everything.
You're upset that one.
I lied to you about where I wasgoing to be.
One I lied to you about where Iwas going to be.
You're upset that.
(10:36):
Two I hung you out to dry andyou had to take care of the kids
and do everything by yourselfwhile I was out hanging out with
my friends.
Monica Tanner (10:41):
Three probably upset about not understanding
why I felt the need to hide thefact that I wanted to have a
guy's night.
No, I couldn't.
Nate Bagley (10:45):
I probably would have given you permission and
and I also understand why you'reupset about just like the abuse
of trust in general and now notknowing whether or not I'm
going to be telling the truth orlying about things in the
future.
Yep, you got it right, yeah.
Is there anything else that youneed me to understand?
Or did I get get like, do youthink I kind of have a good idea
(11:07):
of why you're upset with me?
Monica Tanner (11:09):
Yeah, I think you knew.
I think you knew before you didit.
Nate Bagley (11:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.
Monica Tanner (11:16):
You think you weren't going to get caught.
Nate Bagley (11:18):
Now we're moving into a different territory.
Now we're moving into thecategory, the next step.
But it's like that first partis all about not getting
defensive, not getting pissedyeah it's like I want.
I want to hear you out, I wantto understand your full
experience.
Do you feel, do you feel fullyunderstood there?
Monica Tanner (11:36):
like this is like side note I mean, I was waiting
up all night.
I didn't know if you're gonna,you know, get d d y.
I don't.
I mean, if you're gonna go homewith some other woman.
I mean, what was that?
What was I supposed to do?
Nate Bagley (11:48):
yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
You are.
Uh, I think those worries arevery valid as well.
I get it.
Monica Tanner (12:01):
I think if our roles were reversed, I'd be
feeling very similarly and whatam I supposed to tell the kids
when they're asking where's dad?
How come he's not here to tuckus in?
Nate Bagley (12:10):
Yeah, my choices last night put you in a really
unfair situation with the kidsas well.
Yeah, it is, you are.
You are absolutely entitled tobe angry.
I made a very bad choice lastnight.
That was a very, very dumb,selfish choice.
Monica Tanner (12:32):
Yeah, at least you know what are you going to
do about it.
Nate Bagley (12:35):
Yeah, I mean I don't think I can, I can't go
back in time and fix it.
So the first thing I can say isI'm I'm really sorry.
Truly, it was a.
It was a really immature,foolish, selfish decision that I
made last night and I totallyget that.
(12:59):
The impact that I had on yougoes much deeper than maybe I
had even anticipated.
I don't think I put a whole lotof thought into how much damage
it would do.
I probably thought think I puta whole lot of thought into how
much damage it would do.
I probably thought that itwouldn't do any damage because
I'd probably just get away withit and it wouldn't be a big deal
.
And I see now that that was justa really selfish, bad choice on
my part and I'm very sorry.
(13:21):
And the only thing I can doright now I feel is can commit
to.
I just I promise you it willnever happen again.
And I realized, I realized thatdoesn't fit, that doesn't fix
it in the moment.
But, like I mean, I'm open toalso hearing suggestions, but
(13:43):
what I can do right now ispromise that I will be honest
with you in the future and showand back that up with my actions
.
And I realized that I don'texpect you to forgive me and
just just give me like oh yeah,let me off the hook.
I'm not asking you to let meoff the hook, I'm.
I'm telling you that I realizedI screwed up and I'm making a
commitment to you right now thatI will do better and be better
(14:04):
and that this will never happenagain, and my hope is that you
will give me the chance to showthat to you.
Monica Tanner (14:10):
Okay.
Nate Bagley (14:12):
Is there anything that that you can think of that
I could do to help make that upto you?
Monica Tanner (14:18):
Well, I like that question.
I think that question is reallyimportant.
What can I do right now to makeit better If, whether small
hurt or a big hurt hurt?
I think that's a reallyimportant question for the
offender to ask.
Um, but yeah, I mean, I mightwant you to allow me to track
you.
I might want you to go intotherapy for your drinking.
(14:41):
I might want you to you take apause from hanging out with
those friends, because they'renot very good influence on you.
Nate Bagley (14:53):
Yeah, yeah, you want um I.
I realized that what I did waskind of um, I breached the
protocol of safety in ourrelationship, making you feel
safe, and part of that safety istrusting that I will do what I
say, what I will do, that I'mnot going to lie to you.
(15:14):
Part of that is that I'm goingto make good decisions and
choices.
And now what you're wanting nowthat you feel like that trust
and that safety has beenviolated, it sounds like what
you really want is you want tofeel safe again.
And, yeah, I'm totally open tohaving a conversation about what
(15:35):
I can do to help you feel safeagain, that I'm not going to go
out and make bad, selfishchoices that are going to impact
our marriage and our family andthe lives of our kids.
And, yeah, that's that'simportant to me too.
Monica Tanner (15:50):
Okay.
So, nate, I think that'sawesome, I think a lot of.
I mean.
I think if we were to summarizekind of what you did there, you
, you took ownership, you didn'tget defensive, you kind of let
me have my experience, myfeelings, you didn't try to
argue any of that.
You tried to give me what youcould and commit to me.
(16:11):
So I think those are all reallyimportant things If somebody's
listening and going.
Nate Bagley (16:16):
Yeah.
One other thing I want to throwin there is I didn't demand
immediate forgiveness.
Monica Tanner (16:21):
Yeah, right, exactly yeah, you, I hadn't the
choice to when I was ready.
Forgive you, um, but what ifyou, what if there's people out
there listening to them, like myspouse, would never be able to
do all of that.
Nate Bagley (16:36):
They would get defensive, they would shut down,
they would my spouse, meaninglike the role you played or the
role I played.
Monica Tanner (16:43):
What if somebody who is playing my role is like
my partner does that kind ofcrap all the time and when I
confront them about it theydon't act like you.
They they get defensive.
They tell me I have no right toknow their whereabouts all the
time they don't care about myexperience, then what?
Nate Bagley (17:05):
yeah, um, I mean, that's a different conversation.
Then we're not having a trustconversation anymore.
So if your intention in havinga conversation is to restore
trust, it should look.
It should look closer to whatwe, what we did.
Yeah, um, and I think it'simportant to set that intention
maybe from the beginning and saylike, hey, trust was hurt here.
Can we have a conversationabout it?
(17:26):
Um, if you're just trying toplay the gotcha game, like
caught you in the middle ofdoing something terrible and now
I like then we're in adifferent scenario, does that
make sense?
And and the the the examplethat we came up with here is a
is a more inflammatory moment,like catching somebody in an act
(17:48):
of big betrayal.
Like it's a.
It's probably not oneconversation, it's probably
multiple, multiple conversationsthat get you there.
And like, how do you even bringit up without inciting a lot of
emotion?
I think most people the way theywould want to initiate the
conversation in your shoes islike I know what you did.
(18:08):
Yeah, coming out the gateaccusatory, which will
immediately put the other personon the defensive.
And and I'm not going to judgethat at all I just I just think
that that's the reality is like.
If they, if they're lying toyou about a big thing, it's hard
to call them out on that and begentle, yeah.
Monica Tanner (18:36):
And I think, I think if you, if there's a
breach of trust like that inyour relationship and it's too
much to handle on your own,meaning your spouse is going to
get defensive.
You know you're going round andround in circles and you're not
repairing then I think it'simportant to seek some help.
I mean people ask when do Iknow it's time to get some help?
And it's when you can't handlewhat's happening in your
(18:58):
relationship on your own.
Nate Bagley (19:00):
Yeah, yeah, and I was.
And I just want to reiteratethat the example that we just
did like the example wassupposed to be an example of
somebody who knew that theyscrewed up, knowing that they
were attempting to restore trust, like this was not a.
This is what every one of theseconversations should look like.
This was not a model of whatyou look like when you're
confronting somebody if they'vebetrayed your trust.
It was a model of like I wastrying to model what if you've
(19:24):
screwed up?
How do you want to show up inone of these conversations?
And I want you to notice howmuch more smoothly it goes If
you show up the way that I thatI tried to show up in the
conversation with Monica,obviously like that we're
playing in ideal conditions here.
This is not like reflect ahundred percent what real life
is like, but if you're willingto just like not be defensive,
(19:45):
if you're willing to takeresponsibility, if you're
willing to remain curious, ifyou're willing to let your
partner sit in the emotions andbe mad or angry or betrayed and
not be like, well, I apologize,now get over it.
You know like there's a lot ofthings in that example that if
you do that it will acceleratethe healing, the forgiveness,
(20:06):
the restoration of trust.
And it might be multiple,multiple conversations where you
have to do that.
It's not one time.
But if you have broken thetrust of your partner, whether
it's a big thing or a smallthing, like what I tried to
emulate in that conversation,was I as close to an ideal as I
could muster up of how you couldshow up in a conversation to
(20:28):
give your partner the gift ofhey, I want to show you that I'm
worthy of trust again and and Iwant to take, and I want to, I
want to do my part to cleanthings up so that our
relationship can be a trustfilled relationship again.
Monica Tanner (20:41):
Yeah.
Nate Bagley (20:43):
So does not reflect I real life, but focus more,
focus less on what Monica saidand more on what I said in this
particular conversation.
Monica Tanner (20:55):
Yeah, what else, nate, do you think that's
important to address when you'retalking about repairing after a
?
Nate Bagley (21:01):
betrayal.
I think a lot of people thinkit's a one and done conversation
.
I think a lot of people thinkalso that um, like a grandiose
gesture, like an emotionalmoment, will just fix things.
And trust.
Trust is not built by grandiosegestures, by one-time moments.
(21:23):
Trust is a thing that's builtout of consistency.
It's a, it's small things doneover and over and over again to
show like, like the, the, the umadjectives that I would put in
the bucket along with trust todescribe a trusting relationship
is like there's predictability,there's safety, there's
(21:46):
consistency.
There's like a, a, a sense ofreassurance.
There's a I know, I can rely onyou to be there when, when I
need you.
It means um, there's, I have a.
I have a long history of youshowing up for me in the ways
that I, that I need the most,like all of those things are.
(22:06):
The are kind of in that bucketof trust.
It's not like you bought meflowers or you took me on a
vacation.
That's not trust.
That's like fun, that'sspontaneity, that's that's like
excitement, it's novelty, andthose things don't necessarily
yeah, it's important in arelationship, but that's a
different bucket.
Monica Tanner (22:24):
These things are foundational.
Nate Bagley (22:26):
These things, yeah, those things can strengthen
your relationship, but theydon't necessarily build trust.
Monica Tanner (22:30):
Yeah, the question are you going to be
there for me?
And I think it was reallysignificant in the conversation
you and I were having in thatrole play is you weren't
thinking about me.
You weren't thinking about metaking care of the kids and
having to tell them where youare and, you know, wondering if
you were even going to come home, like I want to know that
you're going to be there for me.
(22:51):
I want to know that you'rethinking about me and
considering my feelings Right,and so that's a big when there
are breaches of trust.
I think it's really importantto understand that in a
long-term committed relationship, your partner is expecting you
to be thinking about them, toconsider them in your decisions.
Nate Bagley (23:15):
Yep, and that comes for small things as well.
It's not just big things, it'salso small things.
Monica Tanner (23:20):
Mm-hmm.
Nate Bagley (23:21):
Yep, so you're going to have to have us.
You'll end up having similarconversations.
When, like, a similar thinghappened this week with my
family, where I had a plan I wasafter work the other day, I was
going to stop by the Verizonstore and pick up a new phone
because I'm overdue for anupgrade and I was like, sweet,
(23:43):
I'm going to stop and pick upthis phone.
And I called my wife and I waslike, hey, do you mind if I stop
and pick up this phone?
And she's like, actually, I'dreally prefer if you come home,
I have a friend who's goingthrough a hard time and they're
bringing the kids over to ourhouse.
And I was like, oh OK, totallyfine, I'll do the Verizon thing
tomorrow.
(24:04):
And then what happened is,throughout the night, the
expectations of the commitmentto taking care of the kids kept
changing, based off of theconversation that my wife was
having with her friend, and Iwasn't in the loop.
And so, anyway, things justkept happening.
And then I got frustratedbecause I felt it was like a
small damage of trust.
(24:25):
It wasn't a huge thing, damageof trust, it wasn't a huge thing
.
And, like the beautiful thingwas that my, my wife, sensed my
frustration and she did exactlywhat we just demonstrated.
She stepped up and she's likehey, I realized I screwed up.
I'm sorry, like I haven't.
I haven't been keeping you inthe loop, I kind of sprung this
on you and it's grown intosomething much a bigger
(24:47):
commitment than we hadanticipated.
I really appreciate you rollingwith the punches, because my
friend really needed helptonight and I was immediately
softened, just immediately.
That that one but yeah, beingable to just let your partner be
a little upset or hurt at aninconvenience or or, uh, an
uncommunicated expectation,allowing space for that and not
(25:09):
making it mean something aboutyou and holding onto yourself
and being like, yeah, Iunderstand why you're upset.
That totally makes sense andand I'm sorry, and we can do
better and I appreciate you.
Monica Tanner (25:24):
Yeah, yeah, I think we nailed it.
I think that is so important.
At the heart of reallyrepairing breaches of trust is
really letting your partner knowthat what they're going through
is okay and that you understand.
You know, you can understandthat your actions have created a
(25:45):
problem for them and that theiremotions about it are perfectly
warranted and okay, they're notcrazy, they're not, you know,
acting irrational or whatever,and that you want to make it
better.
Nate Bagley (25:59):
Yeah, and I think I think where I think you said it
beautifully, like what you thatyour choices have caused a
problem for them and I think oneof the reasons why that's a
difficult thing to cope with.
I just taught a workshop onthis yesterday.
But when we fall in love, thething that most of us fall in
(26:20):
love with is the version ofourselves that gets reflected
back at us by our partner.
Our partner sees us the way wewant to be seen.
They see us as funny, asinteresting, as kind, as
compassionate, as sexy andattractive and spontaneous and
it's like, yeah, you see me thatway.
That's awesome, cause that'sthe way I've always wanted to be
seen.
And then when you get inrelationship where things start
(26:42):
to degrade is your partnerstarts reflecting back at me
like you're a disappointment,it's frustrating to be in
relationship with you.
You're the cause of my sadness,you're the cause of my pain,
like I.
You know I hurt when I'm aroundyou sometimes and that is a
hard thing for the person.
That used to be like you usedto be the source of their
greatest joy and excitement andanticipation and love and and
(27:06):
passion.
Now you're the source of theirpain and irritation and
frustration and harm and thatmesses with our identity, the
version of ourselves that wethought we were.
And if you can't tolerate beingthe type of person who has the
capacity to hurt and disappointand impact others negatively,
(27:28):
then you're never going to be ina position where you can take
responsibility for it and cleanit up.
You're always going to be in astate of avoidance and dismissal
and and and yeah.
So part of being, part of beingin a mature relationship, an
adult marriage where you canactually use conflict as an
opportunity to create intimacyand connection, is you have to
(27:49):
be willing to admit that you arethe type of person.
There are parts of you that arehard to live with.
There are choices that you makethat cause other people pain and
inconvenience and frustrationand upset, and if you can't
tolerate that that part of youexists, then you're going to be
a really hard person to be inrelationship with.
(28:11):
But if you can, and you can justaccept I'm human and when I
make messes I'll just clean itup, then it makes things a lot
easier.
So I just think that a lot ofpeople really resist sitting in,
that I can be responsible forthis place, because it just we
your brain's number one job isto protect you from getting hurt
(28:33):
, and, um, it used to beprotecting you from getting
physically hurt and now, becauseit doesn't spend any real
energy on protecting you fromphysical threats, it spends all
of its energy protecting fromyou, emotional, from emotional
and relational ones, and so allyour brain wants to do is defend
any, any accusation orimplication that you might be
(28:53):
the type of person that couldhurt others.
Yeah, because that mightdisqualify you from being loved
or part of the group or accepted, and and if that fear wins,
then you're never going torebuild trust.
Monica Tanner (29:08):
Yeah, I think we need to close out this episode.
Nate Bagley (29:11):
Yeah, Sorry I went on a rant there, but well.
Monica Tanner (29:14):
I think you brought another episode which we
should do record soon, which ishow to forgive.
Nate Bagley (29:19):
Yeah.
Monica Tanner (29:20):
We'll do that on the next episode, but for now, I
think, being willing to admitwhen you screw up, take
responsibility for it, apologizereally, really make every
effort you can to understandyour partner's experience of
being hurt by you and not expectthem to get over it immediately
?
Yes, and work with them to makeit a better situation for both
(29:45):
of you.
Nate Bagley (29:47):
Perfect, yeah, okay , next episode.
Tune in to find out the otherhalf of the equation.
Monica Tanner (29:52):
Awesome, I love it All.
Right Bye for now.
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