June 10, 2025 • 33 mins
If you want to land bigger clients and keep them coming back, join Adam as he sits down with Bobby Vickers, co-founder of Doorvana Garage Doors, to break down how Bobby’s company scaled from zero to $2 million in just three years. Together, they cover how to break into commercial sales, build strong relationships, handle pricing and negotiations, and deliver the kind of service that earns long-term trust.
New to Jobber? Masters of Home Service listeners can claim an exclusive discount for Jobber at https://bit.ly/4d0KAEh
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The next job is always in the current job.
If we neglect a relationshipand then that person leaves,
we've lost the opportunity.
So I think the biggest thing that theywant is just someone that does what they
say.
Welcome to Jobber'sMasters of Home Service,
a podcast for home servicepros by home service pros.
We're in Las Vegas and today we're talkingabout how a business owner went from
(00:22):
zero to 2 million in just threeyears. I'm your host, Adam Sylvester.
Today's guest, the guy who didit is Bobby Vickers. Bobby,
welcome to the studio.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah. Tell our listeners who you are,what you do, and all that kind of stuff.
Yeah, so my name is Bobby Vickers. I'mthe co-founder of Davana Garage Doors.
We are a garage door manufacturer,
and we also offer turnkey garage doorsolutions for residences and commercial
(00:46):
properties in north Texas. Andjust recently Austin, Texas.
Okay.
And I did not do it alone. Mybusiness partner is amazing.
I couldn't do it without him.He just couldn't be here today.
Gotcha. Okay. Good. Shout out tohim. Yeah, so that's quick growth,
and I think a lot of our listeners arecurious how does someone go to 2 million
in such a short amount of time?
Because there's a lot of people out therethat have been in business for a lot
(01:07):
longer who aren't at thatrevenue, which is fine.
But for someone who is wantingto go to that next level,
maybe they plateaued a little bit.
How did you keep that growth goingso quickly up in a consistent
way?
I think the main difference in ourbusiness is that we are not just a service
company. So we don't just come inand service something that you have.
(01:30):
We actually own a manufacturing facilitythat is because of my business partner,
and the whole reason I joined the businesswas his experience and his ability to
build things.
So we have a manufacturingfacility that allows us to have a
different conversation when we talk toa prospect. So when we talk to someone,
it's not, Hey, we buy this thingfrom somebody, we make this thing,
(01:51):
we know this thing. My business partnerhas been building these since he was 15,
so 27 years on and off. So I think for us,
our approach to businessis just different.
We're not necessarily a markup businesswhere we're buying a product or service
and just marking up a little bit of labor.
We're manufacturing garagedoors and installing them.
(02:12):
And our client base also is different.
So where if you typicallystart a home service business,
let's say pressure washing,
And you're trying to gethomeowners in a neighborhood, well,
there's no scale to that.
You're going to have to talk toeach homeowner for each job. Well,
our approach to business has always beento take what the other companies don't
(02:33):
want because it's underserved.
So we want a builder that's going tobuild 10 homes a year because that's 10
jobs that could be 30 doors andopeners with service down the road.
So our approach to business,
our go-to market has justbeen we want more jobs or more
clients that are going to createlifetime value instead of just going
(02:56):
after a lot of homeowners. So that's beenthe biggest thing. There risk to that.
There is severe risk to that.
We have probably two clientsthat make up 30% of our billings.
That's tough if you're looking atpublicly traded companies or business in
general, that's not ideal, but that'swhat helped us get to where we are today,
and we just have to continueto diversify and expand.
(03:19):
So that number of that concentration amongthose couple of clients gets diluted.
So someone like me, I'mthe complete opposite.
I'd rather serve a thousand clientsbecause if I lose 50 of them, it's fine,
but you're servicing very few, but hey,
you only have to put all yourattention into those few clients.
The downside is if you happento lose one, then it hurts more,
(03:41):
but it's a very different ball game.
But that seems to suityour personality better.
I think it does. And part ofthe reason why is with builders,
production builders, thecommercial side of the business,
it's more of a businesstransaction. It's not as emotional.
So the builders that are buildinga hundred production homes,
(04:02):
they're not going to live in it.
What they need to do is ensurethat the job was done properly,
that it passes inspection andthat we answer the phone call.
I have not received an emergencyphone call from a builder ever
where a homeowner will callbecause the garage door is noisy,
which is fine because we didn'tset the proper expectation.
(04:23):
It's always our fault as a business owner,
one thing you have to say about everythingin your business is it is your fault.
An employee's not doing right. It'syour fault. A customer's unhappy,
it's your fault. It's not that youdid it, that you were the lever.
It's that you didn't enable a systemin place to solve it beforehand.
So it's your fault. So yes,the relationship part of it,
(04:45):
the service part of it, support,
it's much easier with businessesand commercial, but again,
you have the risk of somebody elsegoing, Hey, I'll do that for less.
And so we run into that and we justdeal with it the best that we can.
Since I've started in 2022,we haven't lost a builder.
I think that says a lot aboutour commitment to serving them.
(05:08):
We're very responsive and we don'tcharge for a lot of things that with a
homeowner, you would have to. So that'sthe other thing is our jobs have more,
again, if you're doing a hundredjobs at a certain margin,
you have money to do things that don'tnickel and dime your client or with a
homeowner, if you're competingwith three other companies,
you have to be real competitive.
(05:29):
You can't go back on a Saturday forfree because you have to pay your tech,
you have to pay your truck,you have to pay your insurance,
and you only made 60%margin on a $700 job.
That doesn't leave you any room to wigglewhere we have a lot of wiggle room.
Ideally.
Would you say that most of yourclients wouldn't want to hire
(05:50):
a primarily residential company?
We love this conversation.
So most home service companies are small.
If you reach a million dollars in sales,you're one of very few in your market,
so congratulations, you've done alot. If you reach a hundred employees,
(06:11):
you're less than 1% of allcompanies in the world.
So just know that in your world,it doesn't seem like a lot,
but it is, you're doing a lot.So to answer that question,
whenever you're dealing with abuilder or a commercial client,
there's reputational riskfor the decision maker.
So either the PM or the purchasingmanager and PM would be project manager or
(06:31):
purchasing manager or facilities director.
And so they have to make sure thatwhoever they hire checks these boxes.
If you are an independent garage doorguy and it's just you don't have a brand,
you don't have a truck, you don'thave a reputation, they simply,
it's too much risk for them tohire you. You may be very nice,
you may be affordable, but if somethinggoes wrong and their boss goes, Hey,
(06:53):
why did you hire Billy'sgarage door? I can't find them.
I don't see that they'reregistered with the state.
I don't see general liability.I don't see an umbrella policy.
And so I would say that what they'relooking for is more of a business because
it's more of a businesstransaction than it's like, oh no,
I can't get out of my garage. I'memotional about that. Whereas a business,
(07:17):
a custom builder or a developer,it's like it's a line item.
It's one of 700 line items on ahouse. That's all it is. And for us,
that works because we just do what wesay when we say we're going to do it.
And that's worked. My perspectiveon commercial has always been,
and correct me if you think I'm wrong,
is that your main client is the projectmanager to make them look good for
(07:39):
choosing a good company.If he hires a dud,
it makes 'em look bad in front ofall his bosses and everybody else.
It really doesn't look good for him.
So how do you balance having brandedvehicles and a beautiful website,
all these different things that aregenerally more geared towards residential,
but you still want to boost that brand.You want to make that guy look good.
And like you said, if the boss looksaround and can't find this company online,
(08:03):
that's not a good place to start.
Right. Well,
and I would say too is our $2million for business and commercial,
it's not as much money as somebodyelse's 2 million that just services
homeowners. So I want to sayvery clearly, we love homeowners.
That is a side of the businessthat we want to get to,
but it costs more money to get it,and you have to spend it every time.
(08:23):
There's not a lot of recurring revenuefor garage doors with homeowners.
Interesting.
So yeah, we want that line ofbusiness. And the reason we do it,
I can't tell you how many people callus and they're like, I liked your name.
I liked the name Nirvana. It's inour reviews. People are like, Hey,
they were nice. I lovethe name. That's cool.
So it was one of those things that itjust kind of stuck and it made sense. And
(08:47):
our goals are to manufacturemore doors, have more locations,
and so we want the brand to be elevated.
And we actually have spent probablyas much marketing money on building
out our website as anything.
And what you find is a builder's likethey don't have to ask us what we do or
what we offer. We haveevery commercial project,
(09:08):
every commercial productthat we offer on the site,
but that we also have every residentialproduct. So if you're a homeowner,
don't look at the commercial products.
If you're a commercial buildingor you're a custom home builder,
you can see that we can do everything.And so we think it's important.
We think that quick accessto information is valuable.
(09:30):
Our next step is to put pricing on thesite for every product that we service.
So there's kind of an evolution to whatwe want to do to make it easier for
homeowners,
because most homeowners spend more time
researching a company where I thinka builder or commercial property,
they're like, Hey, thesepeople look good. I'm calling.
(09:51):
It's not like they're not going downthis rabbit hole where I think with
homeowners, because there's so much risk,this is my home, I need to call three,
four companies where the other guy'slike, Hey, can you be here in two hours?
I got a problem. Can you fix it?So just different, just different.
And our guys in the field,we have to tell them too,
(10:12):
this happens a lot. We'll get aservice request, we'll go out.
And that job was initiallydone by a custom home builder,
but there's a homeownerin it who's paying for it?
Is it under warranty from the homebuilder or is it under warranty from,
or does the homeowner pay? Can we offerupgrades because we're going to say,
Hey, the builder that built your home,they put in contractor grade products.
(10:36):
Would you like to upgrade? Well, no,I just moved into an 800,000 house.
Why would I want a new opener?
So there is a risk associatedwith an overlap between
who's the homeowner who paid for it.
And so those are just little nuances wehave to address that you typically don't
in traditional retail home services.
Let's talk about gettingcommercial clients.
(10:56):
I think this is somethingthat you're pretty good at.
This has been one of your primary rolesin your company for the last couple of
years is being in sales essentially.And so reaching out, cold calling,
getting people on thephone, getting managers,
PMs to potentially maybe switch fromtheir old vendor for garage doors to you
guys. Let's walk ourlisteners through that of,
(11:17):
because I think a lot of our listeners,
I think our listenerslean towards residential,
but there's a lot of listeners outthere wanting to get into commercial.
They don't really know how to, sohow would you advise 'em to break in?
How did you do it?
Yeah, so your phone is your best friend.
You can make millions of dollars ayear by just calling and answering your
phone. In the business side ofthings, custom home builders,
(11:37):
commercial properties, typicallythey're showing who they are. Hey,
this is Bill's custom homes. My name'sBill O'Neill. My phone number is this,
my email is this. In every scenario,they already have a guy or a girl
Doing the work. So if youask for too much too soon,
they don't need you right nowbecause if they needed you,
(11:59):
they would be out looking foryou. But think about a builder.
They're managing 70 to 80 trades on ahouse or their project managers are,
so they don't have that much time. Butif you catch 'em at the right time,
they'll always give you an opportunitybecause have you ever heard someone say,
man, lemme tell you how muchI love my garage door people.
He's just the nicest guy. I love him.I want to give him more business. No,
(12:21):
because they're busy andthey don't care about you.
They don't care about your business.
They care about you doingwork for them in a good way.
So I think if you just pick up thephone and call, introduce yourself,
let 'em know that you service their area,
and if they ever want somebody elseto look at a job, you'd be happy to.
The other side of that is wejoined a builders buying group,
(12:44):
which is a group of custom homebuilders that they go in together,
create an association, and thatgives them buying power with brands.
So James Hardy Anderson,windows Sierra Pacific,
this group gets discounts and rebateson those products. It's nationwide.
We joined in North Texas,two different chapters,
and all we do is call. We say, Hey,we're part of the same association.
(13:07):
So look for commonalities.
If you're a pest control companyor if you're a landscaping company,
look at the builders associations.
Look at whatever the localchamber of commerce is.
All of these companies follow the sameplaybook. So it's a popularity contest.
And so I need to be on thechamber. I need to be on the BBB,
I need to be on Angie's or whatever itis. So you can find these companies.
(13:30):
It really just depends on do you wantto, And our approach, my partner and I,
is that we can get where we want if wedo the things nobody else is willing to
do. So what's the thingthat nobody wants to do?
Nobody wants to pick up a phone calla guy or girl they've never met and
introduced themselves. We'veall been to networking events.
Everybody's in a corner. Unlessyou're there with your people,
(13:53):
it's human nature. There'srisk associated with rejection.
So I don't want to be rejected,
but to me it's like my conversation isvery simple. I just ask who they are,
let them know how we're connected,let 'em know what we do,
and then just ask if Ican send them something.
Can I send you a link to ourwebsite to see our jobs? That's it.
Because if you ask for too muchtoo soon, you have no rapport.
(14:16):
Imagine going to a homeownerand being nice to meet you.
Do you want to buy this thing? It'ssay, well, I don't know. Yeah, exactly.
So there's a lot of that.It's just being self-aware,
but also just the pursuitand taking action.
If someone says, yeah, send me a bid,
is that generally a good thing or arethey just try and get rid of you and once
(14:37):
you send the bid, they'll neverrespond? Do you get much that,
or most of the time people pretty frankabout whether or not they're interested?
I'm curious what the next happens next.
So typically if we get theopportunity to bid a job,
we'll win at about half the time, halfthe time. And that's the half that view.
The quote,
Jobber,,,N is great because it lets youknow of the quotes that get delivered,
(14:59):
how many of them are seen. Andso that was a blind spot for us.
We didn't realize peopleweren't seeing our quotes.
So I think what it does is it opensthe door for more conversation.
It's just like a marriage.It's just like dating.
You're not going to getmarried after the first date.
And so it's not uncommon for a newbuilder to take a month, two months,
I like your price, but can you do this?What's your price on this other thing?
(15:23):
A lot of custom builders will buildhouses at different price points.
So the initial price pointhas a base level door.
Let's say the medium pricepoint has a medium door,
and then the premiumproduct has a premium door,
and they'll start with the least expensivething to just kind of see where you
are. And then they'll say, we'llbid this one and then bid this one.
And then it's like, well,do you have insurance? Yes.
(15:45):
Can you sign our vendor packet?
And so it can take a monthor two to get on board,
but if they never send you abid, you don't have a chance.
Do you ever ask, what do youlike about your current vendor?
What you don't like,those kinds of things,
like competitor chronic questionsor do you just stay clear of that?
I really don't. And thatmay be a missed opportunity,
a blind spot for me because I know theyhave someone because they're building
(16:09):
homes today. Not to mention,
we go to job sites everytime we're doing a job.
Our guys will drive around job sites,
take pictures of builder signs and takepictures of the inside of the garage
doors to see who's installing them.
So I already know in a lot ofinstances who they're using,
and I know them already.
So it might be helpful to ask a questionyou already know the answer to because
(16:31):
then you can prep thenext couple of questions.
But typically we avoid talkingabout anybody else because it's just
us. Really what you're gettingis us and our commitment to you.
And I don't want to belittleanyone or say anything bad.
I don't know these other guys.
There's a few companies where weare that are way bigger than us,
and so who am I to say that weare right and they're wrong?
(16:54):
It could be the opposite.
Yeah, this was a big thing for you.Without some of these commercial clients,
you wouldn't have grownas fast as you did.
And so at one point youmade a $500,000 phone call,
you just didn't know whichphone call it was sort of thing.
You called somebody eventually who turnedinto a lot of business for you over
time, what matters most to thesecontractor guys? Is it speed?
(17:15):
Is it price? Is it convenient?What are the things?
Because they are differentmotivations than homeowners.
Yeah.
So one thing that's interesting aboutthis business too is the serendipity of it
all. So people that work in the builderindustry, they stay in that industry.
So it's not uncommon for someone thatworked at a production company that was a
builder that managed 30 or 40homes. They leave that job in,
(17:38):
where are they going to go work?Another production builder,
a better production builder,a custom home builder,
or they'll start their own business.And if we were good to them,
what are they going to do? They'regoing to call us and say, Hey,
I left company A. I'm now atcompany B. That's how we landed.
Our next production builder wasa guy that he managed 40 or 50
(18:00):
homes for a production builder. Itdidn't work out. He left and goes, Hey,
I think you guys are great. I thinkyou'd be an improvement on who we have.
So there's, that's why the nextjob is always in the current job.
If we neglect a relationshipand then that person leaves,
we've lost the opportunity.
So I think the biggest thing that theywant is just someone that does what they
(18:22):
say. It's really pretty simple.
So if you're late, tell 'em you'regoing to be late. If you messed up, Hey,
I messed up. If you didn't place theorder when they needed you to, Hey,
I didn't place the order when youneeded me to. That's a big one.
It's my mistake.
And I think so many times we want to talk,
(18:45):
Hey, there's a problem. And the firstthing you start to do is you justify it.
You're like, well, the guy in thefield, he was, he didn't know.
He didn't tell me. We just arelike, absolutely, we'll fix it.
Let me get back to you and letyou know when we can fix it.
Because a production builder that has
(19:06):
maybe it's 20 homes,
they're dealing with 20 homes withlots of problems with all the trades.
Production builders havetheir own set of problems.
And so if you're having to managethe garage door guy, the cabinet guy,
the concrete coating guy, all theguy, If you become a problem for them,
(19:27):
they're going to associate you withnegativity and not doing what you say.
So that's really the number onerule in my business partner.
I think that's his life. That'sone thing I had to say about him.
He's always going to do what he said heis going to do when he said he is going
to do it.
And that's been an inspiration for mebecause I come from marketing and service
and sales where I want toplease and try to justify.
(19:48):
So he's really taught me to justlike, we screwed up. We'll fix it,
but let me get back toyou on when we can fix it.
Yeah. I think all businesscomes down to keeping promises.
But I do think in commercial,
I've used this phrase a lot when I'mtrying to get commercial clients.
What I heard a lot in the past was
I had to keep calling my vendor.I had to keep making sure.
(20:11):
And I finally coined the phrase, youhave to just babysit 'em all the time.
Right?
Yes. I'm tired of babysitting my vendors.So that was the word I used from that.
I was like, that's good. Are you tiredof babysitting your vendors? Yeah,
you don't have to babysit us.
Use that in the cold email. And.
Then you have to actually, exactly.
You.
Have to follow through and make surethat they don't have to babysit you.
And what we realized too isyou're going to get one chance.
(20:32):
So we have a really nice custom homebuilder in north Texas that builds
properties that aren't ArchitecturalDigest, if you know what that is.
It's just a fancy magazinewith people's houses.
But they've built homes thatare featured in that magazine.
So we bid five jobs for them. They gaveus one, and we know what that means.
And we know the job sites areprogressing. They're all in the same area.
(20:54):
So we see them.
We know that they're waiting todecide if we are for those or not.
And so you really get, you can blowit. Absolutely. You can blow it.
And that's where we have probably done adisservice by not bringing on a project
manager or a salesperson. We probablycould have, we probably should have.
I wouldn't recommend anyone do itthe way that we did, but for us,
(21:16):
it's like that's precious.Literally, if they call me right now,
I'll stop the interview. I'll go outsideand I'll do it. They need because,
and I don't have my phoneon me, so I can't do that.
But it's one of those things where it'slike it matters more to me and nobody
else is going to care that much. And it'snot their fault. They shouldn't care.
If I hire a sales manager or a projectmanager that's a commission-based rep,
(21:38):
he gets a salary, but hedoesn't have any equity.
Is he going to care if he's at dinnerwith his kids at seven o'clock and they
call, is he going to answer?I wouldn't want him to,
because shame on me forputting him in that position.
I'll take that call because my wife andmy kids understand who I am and what
we're trying to build. And that'sjust different. And so I think,
(22:01):
again,
it's just our approach to those sortsof relationships is you're going to get
one shot. Let's make sure theone shot goes as well as it can.
Talking about getting shot.
So a lot of residential companies arespending money on marketing spend and
they're doing ads and they're tryingto drum up all these leads because one
every day it starts over. You haveto get new work, new work every day,
new work, new work every day, newclients, very little repeat clients. Well,
(22:25):
with residential doors. Butanyway, with commercial,
the lifetime value of a commercialclient is infinite, really,
because they're always building newprojects and that's their whole game.
And so is it possible toget commercial clients
from marketing,
or is it really just all coldcalling relational building?
Did you do any of thatstuff in the beginning?
(22:46):
Yeah, so it's a great question.
And we have run paid search campaignson and off kind of in fits and starts,
depending on our cashflow.If we have excess reserves,
we'll go ahead and put out aresidential targeted campaign.
For residential, though.For residential though.
Right? Right. So what we foundin running commercial ads,
so by direct timely service
(23:10):
building your next home,
what we found was that the clients orthe prospects that called are not clients
that we want.
So I don't want a general contractorthat does one garage door a year and he
needs it today for $700. He's in a bind.
And so what we found was thatwhenever we ran those ads,
it was really somebody that was in a bind.
(23:31):
And it's not that wedidn't want to help them.
It's not that there's an opportunity,but it's just our business model is like,
it's not that, right?
We don't want you to come pick up a doorfrom us and have your carpenter install
it. You need it done cheaply. We justwant to do it a certain way. Now,
one thing that has been really goodis we take all of the products that we
(23:52):
offer and we put them in Googlebusiness profile as a product.
So if somebody is searching for aspecific product and nobody in the area
has it, but we do on our website andon our Google Business profile, well,
we'll get an opportunityfor that person to see us.
In our website conversionrate, it's less than 2%.
(24:13):
So for every a hundred people, wemight get one and a half calls.
And so what we just try to do is continueto ratchet up that visitor count so
that serendipitously we just get more In.
But we have not run any campaignsfor commercial or builder business.
Typically, it's just targeted tohomeowners. And that's expensive.
(24:34):
And we've had mixed success.
Yeah, it's totally different too.
Yeah. Well, and I come from that.
So I spent a decade in a home servicebusiness that was geared just to
homeowners. And so it's doable, it'sachievable, whether it's SEO paid search,
but it's just expensive.And right now, our cash,
one thing about productionbuilders, and we spoke about this,
(24:56):
I was talking to a landscaper thatdoes commercial work, and she's like,
we have clients thatdon't pay for 90 days.
It's a long time.
It's a long time.
And so that's the other sideof going towards businesses and
commercial properties, isthat as a business owner,
you might have to wait a while.
Bobby, this is a great conversation.
I want to pause for a minute to talkabout Jobber and why we Jobber so much.
(25:20):
From your perspective, beinga 2 million plus business,
have you found that Jobber can definitelyhandle that size, volume business?
Yeah, so I think we've started with Jobberback two years ago, three years ago.
And from the bottom to wherewe are today, it's been great.
It has a company feature associated withit. And for us, a lot of our business,
(25:40):
they're builders or other businesses.
And so what's nice is thatwhen you click that button,
it kind of takes off the financingoptions that are integrated into it.
And so we're big fans. And thenthe parent child relationship,
which deals with how you can haveone account in lots of properties,
that's really valuable for us. Totally.
And we looked at some other servicesthat just didn't fit the bill for us.
(26:03):
So we don't anticipateleaving Jobber for some time,
especially with the product developmentthat they have ongoing and are
continuing to roll out.
I think it's a really complete suiteof tools for a home service company or
really any service company.
Yeah, I agree.
I think Jobber is just the right sizefor just about any business within
the range I'm ever going to be. Soit handles everything I need more,
(26:27):
which I love.
Well, and the thing I like to thinkabout, how do you look at that investment?
We look at that investment as an employeethat has a brain that's bigger than
all of us, and that has all ofthe information at all times.
And so you can find a wayif you're just starting,
you can a way to justify that investment.It'll pay for itself in no time.
(26:47):
100%. I love, it's a brain.
It's a brain that's bigger thanmine and all my team together.
So if you need a digital brain foryour business, you need Jobber.
You can go to Jobber.com/podcast deal,
get an exclusive discount for new usersand start building your business bigger
and better with Jobber.What about pricing?
Because I know that if you don't dialyour pricing, you're just a sitting duck,
(27:09):
right? So you, from day one, were yourprices too low, you had to increase 'em?
Were they too high thenyou bring 'em back?
How did you make sure that yourpricing got you to that 2 million?
I don't know that I havea really good answer.
I think what we did was westabilized our pricing and we said,
we're not going to sell anythingfor less than this no matter what.
(27:30):
So we kind of had a floor,
and then the ceiling was reallybased on volume and product types.
So one thing that we're cognizant ofis that we don't live in a vacuum.
We make two types of doors,
an MDO and lp smart trim composite doorand a wood door of all varying species.
But if a custom builderwants a glass door,
(27:51):
they could get that glassdoor from 50 people.
So there are certain products where we'llmake less money because we want them
to know that we're competitive on thatproduct. So our pricing, it's really,
it fluctuates, but we have a floor,unless the client's big enough,
we'll blow right through the floor.
If you come to us with200 homes over two years,
(28:11):
you can kind of tell us whatyou need and we'll do it right,
as long as it's not goingto put us out of business.
Well, let's talk about that.
So let's pretend you'retrying to get this new pm and
he does high volume. He reallywants this. It's a big fish.
But he starts to put a littlepressure on like, well,
can you give me this price?And he starts to negotiate.
I think most people would agree,let's not negotiate with homeowners.
(28:34):
It's just not a good game toplay, but it is a different world.
I'm curious what your thoughts are onnegotiating with commercial clients.
What we try to do is if price isa concern, we have room to wiggle.
But what we'll ask for are differentpayment terms. So like, oh,
you need 8% off. Great. We need a deposit.
(28:54):
We're happy to meet theprice, but we need terms.
Because what ends up happening isif the relationship starts that way,
the downward pressure isnot going to stop. Right?
9%, 10%.
And so often the othertrades get more expensive,
so then all of a sudden theyhave to try to shave dollars.
(29:16):
And garage doors are a place whereyou can pick up a phone call,
call a guy that works out ofhis truck that has no office,
no manufacturing facility, nomanufacturing staff, and say, Hey,
I need this done for this price. Andthey'll go, oh, yeah, I can do that.
Sure.
And so part of it is just realizingthat we don't have all the answers.
We are not a silver bullet,
but we'll do everything that wecan to earn and keep the business.
(29:38):
And it's challenging too, because whatyou don't to do with us is babysit,
right? The guy that you pay70% of what you paid us,
do you think he's going to respond toyou quickly? You just beat him down.
You made it where hedidn't make any money.
Now you want him to comeservice you when you're in need.
It's counterproductive tobeat people down on price,
(30:00):
because if you're buildinga certain level of home,
you really should careabout quality, the value.
You have to figure out how to do thatas a home builder and building your home
and marketing it and your positioning.If you beat down every trade,
reputations carry and they follow.
So it's very often where we'll havean opportunity to work with someone.
(30:21):
We'll call another builder and say, Hey,what do you know about this builder?
And they're like,
I've heard there's a lot of turnoverin trades because of payment,
or I've heard that X is theexpectation, but Y is the reality.
So it's just doing your due due diligence.
I think I have some referencechecking on some of your,
I like what you said earlierabout when they ask you,
(30:41):
when they start negotiating, theyask you for a change of price,
you change the service. I love that.Because if they say, can I get 8% off?
Yeah, sure. As long as yousay yes. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Why didn't you make 8% less before Iasked you your best price should been.
But you say, sure, but I have to changemy agreement. Now I need to deposit.
(31:01):
Or maybe this warranty goesfrom five years to two years,
whatever the case may be. ButI would urge our listeners,
if you're going to negotiateand change the price,
you got to change the product orservice. Otherwise you look plea Lea.
Absolutely. And we tell people this.
We talk to prospective clients wherethey come to us because of our,
I don't want to say prowess,
(31:21):
but because they've heard goodthings about our wood door products,
and they're like, well, can you doa still door? And they're like, oh,
your still door is real expensive.And we're like, compared to what?
What's it compared to?
So it's compared to the guy thatyou were using that doesn't run an
operation. This is the biggest thing too,
(31:42):
is most businesses in our industrygo out of business within five years.
Most of them go out of businesswithin five years. So his inability,
the competition's inability toprice isn't a reflection of us.
It's a reflection of them. And so we trynot to be beholden to that. But again,
someone wants a concession.Sure, but we need this.
(32:05):
I like that. And we just ask.And it doesn't always happen,
but if people want whatthey want, they'll concede.
Yeah. Yeah. Bobby, this has been great.
I love talking about thecommercial side of things.
I'm going to boil it down to threeactionable items here for our listeners.
Number one is be thesolution. Don't be hassle.
Don't be friction. Don'tmake your vendors babysit.
(32:26):
You want to deliver on your promises thatyou make to the PMs that you're trying
to attract and all that kind of stuff.
Number two is don't underestimate thename and the branding of your business.
It really matters what you call yourself.
Bobby said that peoplereally liked the name doa,
and that really worked for him.
So you need to make sure yourname is compelling and attractive.
Number three is, if you lower your price,you must change your service offering.
(32:50):
Hey, Adam, can I get 5% off? Sure.
But now our warranty just went fromtwo years to one year. Otherwise,
you come across as sleazy for justmatching their price out of nowhere.
Make sure you change your serviceoffering. Bobby, that was great.
How do people find out more about you?
Yeah, so our company isdoa.com and on social media,
we were lucky enough to justget DOA for all of the handles.
(33:12):
So you can find us there. And ifyou're in North Texas or Austin,
Texas and you need a garage door service,give us a call. We would love to help.
Well, that was really insightful.Thanks for being here, Bobby.
Yeah, thank you, Adam. Appreciate it.
And thank you for listening.
I hope that you heard something todaythat will help you attract more commercial
clients and grow your business. Asalways, I'm your host, Adam Sylvester.
You can find me@adamsylvester.com.
(33:33):
Your team and your clients deserveyour very best. So go give it to 'em.
The next job is always in the current job.
If we neglect a relationshipand then that person leaves,
we've lost the opportunity.
So I think the biggest thing that theywant is just someone that does what they
say.
Welcome to Jobber'sMasters of Home Service,
a podcast for home servicepros by home service pros.
We're in Las Vegas and today we're talkingabout how a business owner went from
(00:22):
zero to 2 million in just threeyears. I'm your host, Adam Sylvester.
Today's guest, the guy who didit is Bobby Vickers. Bobby,
welcome to the studio.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah. Tell our listeners who you are,what you do, and all that kind of stuff.
Yeah, so my name is Bobby Vickers. I'mthe co-founder of Davana Garage Doors.
We are a garage door manufacturer,
and we also offer turnkey garage doorsolutions for residences and commercial
(00:46):
properties in north Texas. Andjust recently Austin, Texas.
Okay.
And I did not do it alone. Mybusiness partner is amazing.
I couldn't do it without him.He just couldn't be here today.
Gotcha. Okay. Good. Shout out tohim. Yeah, so that's quick growth,
and I think a lot of our listeners arecurious how does someone go to 2 million
in such a short amount of time?
Because there's a lot of people out therethat have been in business for a lot
(01:07):
longer who aren't at thatrevenue, which is fine.
But for someone who is wantingto go to that next level,
maybe they plateaued a little bit.
How did you keep that growth goingso quickly up in a consistent
way?
I think the main difference in ourbusiness is that we are not just a service
company. So we don't just come inand service something that you have.
(01:30):
We actually own a manufacturing facilitythat is because of my business partner,
and the whole reason I joined the businesswas his experience and his ability to
build things.
So we have a manufacturingfacility that allows us to have a
different conversation when we talk toa prospect. So when we talk to someone,
it's not, Hey, we buy this thingfrom somebody, we make this thing,
(01:51):
we know this thing. My business partnerhas been building these since he was 15,
so 27 years on and off. So I think for us,
our approach to businessis just different.
We're not necessarily a markup businesswhere we're buying a product or service
and just marking up a little bit of labor.
We're manufacturing garagedoors and installing them.
(02:12):
And our client base also is different.
So where if you typicallystart a home service business,
let's say pressure washing,
And you're trying to gethomeowners in a neighborhood, well,
there's no scale to that.
You're going to have to talk toeach homeowner for each job. Well,
our approach to business has always beento take what the other companies don't
(02:33):
want because it's underserved.
So we want a builder that's going tobuild 10 homes a year because that's 10
jobs that could be 30 doors andopeners with service down the road.
So our approach to business,
our go-to market has justbeen we want more jobs or more
clients that are going to createlifetime value instead of just going
(02:56):
after a lot of homeowners. So that's beenthe biggest thing. There risk to that.
There is severe risk to that.
We have probably two clientsthat make up 30% of our billings.
That's tough if you're looking atpublicly traded companies or business in
general, that's not ideal, but that'swhat helped us get to where we are today,
and we just have to continueto diversify and expand.
(03:19):
So that number of that concentration amongthose couple of clients gets diluted.
So someone like me, I'mthe complete opposite.
I'd rather serve a thousand clientsbecause if I lose 50 of them, it's fine,
but you're servicing very few, but hey,
you only have to put all yourattention into those few clients.
The downside is if you happento lose one, then it hurts more,
(03:41):
but it's a very different ball game.
But that seems to suityour personality better.
I think it does. And part ofthe reason why is with builders,
production builders, thecommercial side of the business,
it's more of a businesstransaction. It's not as emotional.
So the builders that are buildinga hundred production homes,
(04:02):
they're not going to live in it.
What they need to do is ensurethat the job was done properly,
that it passes inspection andthat we answer the phone call.
I have not received an emergencyphone call from a builder ever
where a homeowner will callbecause the garage door is noisy,
which is fine because we didn'tset the proper expectation.
(04:23):
It's always our fault as a business owner,
one thing you have to say about everythingin your business is it is your fault.
An employee's not doing right. It'syour fault. A customer's unhappy,
it's your fault. It's not that youdid it, that you were the lever.
It's that you didn't enable a systemin place to solve it beforehand.
So it's your fault. So yes,the relationship part of it,
(04:45):
the service part of it, support,
it's much easier with businessesand commercial, but again,
you have the risk of somebody elsegoing, Hey, I'll do that for less.
And so we run into that and we justdeal with it the best that we can.
Since I've started in 2022,we haven't lost a builder.
I think that says a lot aboutour commitment to serving them.
(05:08):
We're very responsive and we don'tcharge for a lot of things that with a
homeowner, you would have to. So that'sthe other thing is our jobs have more,
again, if you're doing a hundredjobs at a certain margin,
you have money to do things that don'tnickel and dime your client or with a
homeowner, if you're competingwith three other companies,
you have to be real competitive.
(05:29):
You can't go back on a Saturday forfree because you have to pay your tech,
you have to pay your truck,you have to pay your insurance,
and you only made 60%margin on a $700 job.
That doesn't leave you any room to wigglewhere we have a lot of wiggle room.
Ideally.
Would you say that most of yourclients wouldn't want to hire
(05:50):
a primarily residential company?
We love this conversation.
So most home service companies are small.
If you reach a million dollars in sales,you're one of very few in your market,
so congratulations, you've done alot. If you reach a hundred employees,
(06:11):
you're less than 1% of allcompanies in the world.
So just know that in your world,it doesn't seem like a lot,
but it is, you're doing a lot.So to answer that question,
whenever you're dealing with abuilder or a commercial client,
there's reputational riskfor the decision maker.
So either the PM or the purchasingmanager and PM would be project manager or
(06:31):
purchasing manager or facilities director.
And so they have to make sure thatwhoever they hire checks these boxes.
If you are an independent garage doorguy and it's just you don't have a brand,
you don't have a truck, you don'thave a reputation, they simply,
it's too much risk for them tohire you. You may be very nice,
you may be affordable, but if somethinggoes wrong and their boss goes, Hey,
(06:53):
why did you hire Billy'sgarage door? I can't find them.
I don't see that they'reregistered with the state.
I don't see general liability.I don't see an umbrella policy.
And so I would say that what they'relooking for is more of a business because
it's more of a businesstransaction than it's like, oh no,
I can't get out of my garage. I'memotional about that. Whereas a business,
(07:17):
a custom builder or a developer,it's like it's a line item.
It's one of 700 line items on ahouse. That's all it is. And for us,
that works because we just do what wesay when we say we're going to do it.
And that's worked. My perspectiveon commercial has always been,
and correct me if you think I'm wrong,
is that your main client is the projectmanager to make them look good for
(07:39):
choosing a good company.If he hires a dud,
it makes 'em look bad in front ofall his bosses and everybody else.
It really doesn't look good for him.
So how do you balance having brandedvehicles and a beautiful website,
all these different things that aregenerally more geared towards residential,
but you still want to boost that brand.You want to make that guy look good.
And like you said, if the boss looksaround and can't find this company online,
(08:03):
that's not a good place to start.
Right. Well,
and I would say too is our $2million for business and commercial,
it's not as much money as somebodyelse's 2 million that just services
homeowners. So I want to sayvery clearly, we love homeowners.
That is a side of the businessthat we want to get to,
but it costs more money to get it,and you have to spend it every time.
(08:23):
There's not a lot of recurring revenuefor garage doors with homeowners.
Interesting.
So yeah, we want that line ofbusiness. And the reason we do it,
I can't tell you how many people callus and they're like, I liked your name.
I liked the name Nirvana. It's inour reviews. People are like, Hey,
they were nice. I lovethe name. That's cool.
So it was one of those things that itjust kind of stuck and it made sense. And
(08:47):
our goals are to manufacturemore doors, have more locations,
and so we want the brand to be elevated.
And we actually have spent probablyas much marketing money on building
out our website as anything.
And what you find is a builder's likethey don't have to ask us what we do or
what we offer. We haveevery commercial project,
(09:08):
every commercial productthat we offer on the site,
but that we also have every residentialproduct. So if you're a homeowner,
don't look at the commercial products.
If you're a commercial buildingor you're a custom home builder,
you can see that we can do everything.And so we think it's important.
We think that quick accessto information is valuable.
(09:30):
Our next step is to put pricing on thesite for every product that we service.
So there's kind of an evolution to whatwe want to do to make it easier for
homeowners,
because most homeowners spend more time
researching a company where I thinka builder or commercial property,
they're like, Hey, thesepeople look good. I'm calling.
(09:51):
It's not like they're not going downthis rabbit hole where I think with
homeowners, because there's so much risk,this is my home, I need to call three,
four companies where the other guy'slike, Hey, can you be here in two hours?
I got a problem. Can you fix it?So just different, just different.
And our guys in the field,we have to tell them too,
(10:12):
this happens a lot. We'll get aservice request, we'll go out.
And that job was initiallydone by a custom home builder,
but there's a homeownerin it who's paying for it?
Is it under warranty from the homebuilder or is it under warranty from,
or does the homeowner pay? Can we offerupgrades because we're going to say,
Hey, the builder that built your home,they put in contractor grade products.
(10:36):
Would you like to upgrade? Well, no,I just moved into an 800,000 house.
Why would I want a new opener?
So there is a risk associatedwith an overlap between
who's the homeowner who paid for it.
And so those are just little nuances wehave to address that you typically don't
in traditional retail home services.
Let's talk about gettingcommercial clients.
(10:56):
I think this is somethingthat you're pretty good at.
This has been one of your primary rolesin your company for the last couple of
years is being in sales essentially.And so reaching out, cold calling,
getting people on thephone, getting managers,
PMs to potentially maybe switch fromtheir old vendor for garage doors to you
guys. Let's walk ourlisteners through that of,
(11:17):
because I think a lot of our listeners,
I think our listenerslean towards residential,
but there's a lot of listeners outthere wanting to get into commercial.
They don't really know how to, sohow would you advise 'em to break in?
How did you do it?
Yeah, so your phone is your best friend.
You can make millions of dollars ayear by just calling and answering your
phone. In the business side ofthings, custom home builders,
(11:37):
commercial properties, typicallythey're showing who they are. Hey,
this is Bill's custom homes. My name'sBill O'Neill. My phone number is this,
my email is this. In every scenario,they already have a guy or a girl
Doing the work. So if youask for too much too soon,
they don't need you right nowbecause if they needed you,
(11:59):
they would be out looking foryou. But think about a builder.
They're managing 70 to 80 trades on ahouse or their project managers are,
so they don't have that much time. Butif you catch 'em at the right time,
they'll always give you an opportunitybecause have you ever heard someone say,
man, lemme tell you how muchI love my garage door people.
He's just the nicest guy. I love him.I want to give him more business. No,
(12:21):
because they're busy andthey don't care about you.
They don't care about your business.
They care about you doingwork for them in a good way.
So I think if you just pick up thephone and call, introduce yourself,
let 'em know that you service their area,
and if they ever want somebody elseto look at a job, you'd be happy to.
The other side of that is wejoined a builders buying group,
(12:44):
which is a group of custom homebuilders that they go in together,
create an association, and thatgives them buying power with brands.
So James Hardy Anderson,windows Sierra Pacific,
this group gets discounts and rebateson those products. It's nationwide.
We joined in North Texas,two different chapters,
and all we do is call. We say, Hey,we're part of the same association.
(13:07):
So look for commonalities.
If you're a pest control companyor if you're a landscaping company,
look at the builders associations.
Look at whatever the localchamber of commerce is.
All of these companies follow the sameplaybook. So it's a popularity contest.
And so I need to be on thechamber. I need to be on the BBB,
I need to be on Angie's or whatever itis. So you can find these companies.
(13:30):
It really just depends on do you wantto, And our approach, my partner and I,
is that we can get where we want if wedo the things nobody else is willing to
do. So what's the thingthat nobody wants to do?
Nobody wants to pick up a phone calla guy or girl they've never met and
introduced themselves. We'veall been to networking events.
Everybody's in a corner. Unlessyou're there with your people,
(13:53):
it's human nature. There'srisk associated with rejection.
So I don't want to be rejected,
but to me it's like my conversation isvery simple. I just ask who they are,
let them know how we're connected,let 'em know what we do,
and then just ask if Ican send them something.
Can I send you a link to ourwebsite to see our jobs? That's it.
Because if you ask for too muchtoo soon, you have no rapport.
(14:16):
Imagine going to a homeownerand being nice to meet you.
Do you want to buy this thing? It'ssay, well, I don't know. Yeah, exactly.
So there's a lot of that.It's just being self-aware,
but also just the pursuitand taking action.
If someone says, yeah, send me a bid,
is that generally a good thing or arethey just try and get rid of you and once
(14:37):
you send the bid, they'll neverrespond? Do you get much that,
or most of the time people pretty frankabout whether or not they're interested?
I'm curious what the next happens next.
So typically if we get theopportunity to bid a job,
we'll win at about half the time, halfthe time. And that's the half that view.
The quote,
Jobber,,,N is great because it lets youknow of the quotes that get delivered,
(14:59):
how many of them are seen. Andso that was a blind spot for us.
We didn't realize peopleweren't seeing our quotes.
So I think what it does is it opensthe door for more conversation.
It's just like a marriage.It's just like dating.
You're not going to getmarried after the first date.
And so it's not uncommon for a newbuilder to take a month, two months,
I like your price, but can you do this?What's your price on this other thing?
(15:23):
A lot of custom builders will buildhouses at different price points.
So the initial price pointhas a base level door.
Let's say the medium pricepoint has a medium door,
and then the premiumproduct has a premium door,
and they'll start with the least expensivething to just kind of see where you
are. And then they'll say, we'llbid this one and then bid this one.
And then it's like, well,do you have insurance? Yes.
(15:45):
Can you sign our vendor packet?
And so it can take a monthor two to get on board,
but if they never send you abid, you don't have a chance.
Do you ever ask, what do youlike about your current vendor?
What you don't like,those kinds of things,
like competitor chronic questionsor do you just stay clear of that?
I really don't. And thatmay be a missed opportunity,
a blind spot for me because I know theyhave someone because they're building
(16:09):
homes today. Not to mention,
we go to job sites everytime we're doing a job.
Our guys will drive around job sites,
take pictures of builder signs and takepictures of the inside of the garage
doors to see who's installing them.
So I already know in a lot ofinstances who they're using,
and I know them already.
So it might be helpful to ask a questionyou already know the answer to because
(16:31):
then you can prep thenext couple of questions.
But typically we avoid talkingabout anybody else because it's just
us. Really what you're gettingis us and our commitment to you.
And I don't want to belittleanyone or say anything bad.
I don't know these other guys.
There's a few companies where weare that are way bigger than us,
and so who am I to say that weare right and they're wrong?
(16:54):
It could be the opposite.
Yeah, this was a big thing for you.Without some of these commercial clients,
you wouldn't have grownas fast as you did.
And so at one point youmade a $500,000 phone call,
you just didn't know whichphone call it was sort of thing.
You called somebody eventually who turnedinto a lot of business for you over
time, what matters most to thesecontractor guys? Is it speed?
(17:15):
Is it price? Is it convenient?What are the things?
Because they are differentmotivations than homeowners.
Yeah.
So one thing that's interesting aboutthis business too is the serendipity of it
all. So people that work in the builderindustry, they stay in that industry.
So it's not uncommon for someone thatworked at a production company that was a
builder that managed 30 or 40homes. They leave that job in,
(17:38):
where are they going to go work?Another production builder,
a better production builder,a custom home builder,
or they'll start their own business.And if we were good to them,
what are they going to do? They'regoing to call us and say, Hey,
I left company A. I'm now atcompany B. That's how we landed.
Our next production builder wasa guy that he managed 40 or 50
(18:00):
homes for a production builder. Itdidn't work out. He left and goes, Hey,
I think you guys are great. I thinkyou'd be an improvement on who we have.
So there's, that's why the nextjob is always in the current job.
If we neglect a relationshipand then that person leaves,
we've lost the opportunity.
So I think the biggest thing that theywant is just someone that does what they
(18:22):
say. It's really pretty simple.
So if you're late, tell 'em you'regoing to be late. If you messed up, Hey,
I messed up. If you didn't place theorder when they needed you to, Hey,
I didn't place the order when youneeded me to. That's a big one.
It's my mistake.
And I think so many times we want to talk,
(18:45):
Hey, there's a problem. And the firstthing you start to do is you justify it.
You're like, well, the guy in thefield, he was, he didn't know.
He didn't tell me. We just arelike, absolutely, we'll fix it.
Let me get back to you and letyou know when we can fix it.
Because a production builder that has
(19:06):
maybe it's 20 homes,
they're dealing with 20 homes withlots of problems with all the trades.
Production builders havetheir own set of problems.
And so if you're having to managethe garage door guy, the cabinet guy,
the concrete coating guy, all theguy, If you become a problem for them,
(19:27):
they're going to associate you withnegativity and not doing what you say.
So that's really the number onerule in my business partner.
I think that's his life. That'sone thing I had to say about him.
He's always going to do what he said heis going to do when he said he is going
to do it.
And that's been an inspiration for mebecause I come from marketing and service
and sales where I want toplease and try to justify.
(19:48):
So he's really taught me to justlike, we screwed up. We'll fix it,
but let me get back toyou on when we can fix it.
Yeah. I think all businesscomes down to keeping promises.
But I do think in commercial,
I've used this phrase a lot when I'mtrying to get commercial clients.
What I heard a lot in the past was
I had to keep calling my vendor.I had to keep making sure.
(20:11):
And I finally coined the phrase, youhave to just babysit 'em all the time.
Right?
Yes. I'm tired of babysitting my vendors.So that was the word I used from that.
I was like, that's good. Are you tiredof babysitting your vendors? Yeah,
you don't have to babysit us.
Use that in the cold email. And.
Then you have to actually, exactly.
You.
Have to follow through and make surethat they don't have to babysit you.
And what we realized too isyou're going to get one chance.
(20:32):
So we have a really nice custom homebuilder in north Texas that builds
properties that aren't ArchitecturalDigest, if you know what that is.
It's just a fancy magazinewith people's houses.
But they've built homes thatare featured in that magazine.
So we bid five jobs for them. They gaveus one, and we know what that means.
And we know the job sites areprogressing. They're all in the same area.
(20:54):
So we see them.
We know that they're waiting todecide if we are for those or not.
And so you really get, you can blowit. Absolutely. You can blow it.
And that's where we have probably done adisservice by not bringing on a project
manager or a salesperson. We probablycould have, we probably should have.
I wouldn't recommend anyone do itthe way that we did, but for us,
(21:16):
it's like that's precious.Literally, if they call me right now,
I'll stop the interview. I'll go outsideand I'll do it. They need because,
and I don't have my phoneon me, so I can't do that.
But it's one of those things where it'slike it matters more to me and nobody
else is going to care that much. And it'snot their fault. They shouldn't care.
If I hire a sales manager or a projectmanager that's a commission-based rep,
(21:38):
he gets a salary, but hedoesn't have any equity.
Is he going to care if he's at dinnerwith his kids at seven o'clock and they
call, is he going to answer?I wouldn't want him to,
because shame on me forputting him in that position.
I'll take that call because my wife andmy kids understand who I am and what
we're trying to build. And that'sjust different. And so I think,
(22:01):
again,
it's just our approach to those sortsof relationships is you're going to get
one shot. Let's make sure theone shot goes as well as it can.
Talking about getting shot.
So a lot of residential companies arespending money on marketing spend and
they're doing ads and they're tryingto drum up all these leads because one
every day it starts over. You haveto get new work, new work every day,
new work, new work every day, newclients, very little repeat clients. Well,
(22:25):
with residential doors. Butanyway, with commercial,
the lifetime value of a commercialclient is infinite, really,
because they're always building newprojects and that's their whole game.
And so is it possible toget commercial clients
from marketing,
or is it really just all coldcalling relational building?
Did you do any of thatstuff in the beginning?
(22:46):
Yeah, so it's a great question.
And we have run paid search campaignson and off kind of in fits and starts,
depending on our cashflow.If we have excess reserves,
we'll go ahead and put out aresidential targeted campaign.
For residential, though.For residential though.
Right? Right. So what we foundin running commercial ads,
so by direct timely service
(23:10):
building your next home,
what we found was that the clients orthe prospects that called are not clients
that we want.
So I don't want a general contractorthat does one garage door a year and he
needs it today for $700. He's in a bind.
And so what we found was thatwhenever we ran those ads,
it was really somebody that was in a bind.
(23:31):
And it's not that wedidn't want to help them.
It's not that there's an opportunity,but it's just our business model is like,
it's not that, right?
We don't want you to come pick up a doorfrom us and have your carpenter install
it. You need it done cheaply. We justwant to do it a certain way. Now,
one thing that has been really goodis we take all of the products that we
(23:52):
offer and we put them in Googlebusiness profile as a product.
So if somebody is searching for aspecific product and nobody in the area
has it, but we do on our website andon our Google Business profile, well,
we'll get an opportunityfor that person to see us.
In our website conversionrate, it's less than 2%.
(24:13):
So for every a hundred people, wemight get one and a half calls.
And so what we just try to do is continueto ratchet up that visitor count so
that serendipitously we just get more In.
But we have not run any campaignsfor commercial or builder business.
Typically, it's just targeted tohomeowners. And that's expensive.
(24:34):
And we've had mixed success.
Yeah, it's totally different too.
Yeah. Well, and I come from that.
So I spent a decade in a home servicebusiness that was geared just to
homeowners. And so it's doable, it'sachievable, whether it's SEO paid search,
but it's just expensive.And right now, our cash,
one thing about productionbuilders, and we spoke about this,
(24:56):
I was talking to a landscaper thatdoes commercial work, and she's like,
we have clients thatdon't pay for 90 days.
It's a long time.
It's a long time.
And so that's the other sideof going towards businesses and
commercial properties, isthat as a business owner,
you might have to wait a while.
Bobby, this is a great conversation.
I want to pause for a minute to talkabout Jobber and why we Jobber so much.
(25:20):
From your perspective, beinga 2 million plus business,
have you found that Jobber can definitelyhandle that size, volume business?
Yeah, so I think we've started with Jobberback two years ago, three years ago.
And from the bottom to wherewe are today, it's been great.
It has a company feature associated withit. And for us, a lot of our business,
(25:40):
they're builders or other businesses.
And so what's nice is thatwhen you click that button,
it kind of takes off the financingoptions that are integrated into it.
And so we're big fans. And thenthe parent child relationship,
which deals with how you can haveone account in lots of properties,
that's really valuable for us. Totally.
And we looked at some other servicesthat just didn't fit the bill for us.
(26:03):
So we don't anticipateleaving Jobber for some time,
especially with the product developmentthat they have ongoing and are
continuing to roll out.
I think it's a really complete suiteof tools for a home service company or
really any service company.
Yeah, I agree.
I think Jobber is just the right sizefor just about any business within
the range I'm ever going to be. Soit handles everything I need more,
(26:27):
which I love.
Well, and the thing I like to thinkabout, how do you look at that investment?
We look at that investment as an employeethat has a brain that's bigger than
all of us, and that has all ofthe information at all times.
And so you can find a wayif you're just starting,
you can a way to justify that investment.It'll pay for itself in no time.
(26:47):
100%. I love, it's a brain.
It's a brain that's bigger thanmine and all my team together.
So if you need a digital brain foryour business, you need Jobber.
You can go to Jobber.com/podcast deal,
get an exclusive discount for new usersand start building your business bigger
and better with Jobber.What about pricing?
Because I know that if you don't dialyour pricing, you're just a sitting duck,
(27:09):
right? So you, from day one, were yourprices too low, you had to increase 'em?
Were they too high thenyou bring 'em back?
How did you make sure that yourpricing got you to that 2 million?
I don't know that I havea really good answer.
I think what we did was westabilized our pricing and we said,
we're not going to sell anythingfor less than this no matter what.
(27:30):
So we kind of had a floor,
and then the ceiling was reallybased on volume and product types.
So one thing that we're cognizant ofis that we don't live in a vacuum.
We make two types of doors,
an MDO and lp smart trim composite doorand a wood door of all varying species.
But if a custom builderwants a glass door,
(27:51):
they could get that glassdoor from 50 people.
So there are certain products where we'llmake less money because we want them
to know that we're competitive on thatproduct. So our pricing, it's really,
it fluctuates, but we have a floor,unless the client's big enough,
we'll blow right through the floor.
If you come to us with200 homes over two years,
(28:11):
you can kind of tell us whatyou need and we'll do it right,
as long as it's not goingto put us out of business.
Well, let's talk about that.
So let's pretend you'retrying to get this new pm and
he does high volume. He reallywants this. It's a big fish.
But he starts to put a littlepressure on like, well,
can you give me this price?And he starts to negotiate.
I think most people would agree,let's not negotiate with homeowners.
(28:34):
It's just not a good game toplay, but it is a different world.
I'm curious what your thoughts are onnegotiating with commercial clients.
What we try to do is if price isa concern, we have room to wiggle.
But what we'll ask for are differentpayment terms. So like, oh,
you need 8% off. Great. We need a deposit.
(28:54):
We're happy to meet theprice, but we need terms.
Because what ends up happening isif the relationship starts that way,
the downward pressure isnot going to stop. Right?
9%, 10%.
And so often the othertrades get more expensive,
so then all of a sudden theyhave to try to shave dollars.
(29:16):
And garage doors are a place whereyou can pick up a phone call,
call a guy that works out ofhis truck that has no office,
no manufacturing facility, nomanufacturing staff, and say, Hey,
I need this done for this price. Andthey'll go, oh, yeah, I can do that.
Sure.
And so part of it is just realizingthat we don't have all the answers.
We are not a silver bullet,
but we'll do everything that wecan to earn and keep the business.
(29:38):
And it's challenging too, because whatyou don't to do with us is babysit,
right? The guy that you pay70% of what you paid us,
do you think he's going to respond toyou quickly? You just beat him down.
You made it where hedidn't make any money.
Now you want him to comeservice you when you're in need.
It's counterproductive tobeat people down on price,
(30:00):
because if you're buildinga certain level of home,
you really should careabout quality, the value.
You have to figure out how to do thatas a home builder and building your home
and marketing it and your positioning.If you beat down every trade,
reputations carry and they follow.
So it's very often where we'll havean opportunity to work with someone.
(30:21):
We'll call another builder and say, Hey,what do you know about this builder?
And they're like,
I've heard there's a lot of turnoverin trades because of payment,
or I've heard that X is theexpectation, but Y is the reality.
So it's just doing your due due diligence.
I think I have some referencechecking on some of your,
I like what you said earlierabout when they ask you,
(30:41):
when they start negotiating, theyask you for a change of price,
you change the service. I love that.Because if they say, can I get 8% off?
Yeah, sure. As long as yousay yes. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Why didn't you make 8% less before Iasked you your best price should been.
But you say, sure, but I have to changemy agreement. Now I need to deposit.
(31:01):
Or maybe this warranty goesfrom five years to two years,
whatever the case may be. ButI would urge our listeners,
if you're going to negotiateand change the price,
you got to change the product orservice. Otherwise you look plea Lea.
Absolutely. And we tell people this.
We talk to prospective clients wherethey come to us because of our,
I don't want to say prowess,
(31:21):
but because they've heard goodthings about our wood door products,
and they're like, well, can you doa still door? And they're like, oh,
your still door is real expensive.And we're like, compared to what?
What's it compared to?
So it's compared to the guy thatyou were using that doesn't run an
operation. This is the biggest thing too,
(31:42):
is most businesses in our industrygo out of business within five years.
Most of them go out of businesswithin five years. So his inability,
the competition's inability toprice isn't a reflection of us.
It's a reflection of them. And so we trynot to be beholden to that. But again,
someone wants a concession.Sure, but we need this.
(32:05):
I like that. And we just ask.And it doesn't always happen,
but if people want whatthey want, they'll concede.
Yeah. Yeah. Bobby, this has been great.
I love talking about thecommercial side of things.
I'm going to boil it down to threeactionable items here for our listeners.
Number one is be thesolution. Don't be hassle.
Don't be friction. Don'tmake your vendors babysit.
(32:26):
You want to deliver on your promises thatyou make to the PMs that you're trying
to attract and all that kind of stuff.
Number two is don't underestimate thename and the branding of your business.
It really matters what you call yourself.
Bobby said that peoplereally liked the name doa,
and that really worked for him.
So you need to make sure yourname is compelling and attractive.
Number three is, if you lower your price,you must change your service offering.
(32:50):
Hey, Adam, can I get 5% off? Sure.
But now our warranty just went fromtwo years to one year. Otherwise,
you come across as sleazy for justmatching their price out of nowhere.
Make sure you change your serviceoffering. Bobby, that was great.
How do people find out more about you?
Yeah, so our company isdoa.com and on social media,
we were lucky enough to justget DOA for all of the handles.
(33:12):
So you can find us there. And ifyou're in North Texas or Austin,
Texas and you need a garage door service,give us a call. We would love to help.
Well, that was really insightful.Thanks for being here, Bobby.
Yeah, thank you, Adam. Appreciate it.
And thank you for listening.
I hope that you heard something todaythat will help you attract more commercial
clients and grow your business. Asalways, I'm your host, Adam Sylvester.
You can find me@adamsylvester.com.
(33:33):
Your team and your clients deserveyour very best. So go give it to 'em.
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