January 21, 2025 • 32 mins
Success in sales isn't about being pushy; it's about building trust and understanding your customers' needs. In this episode, we explore how to use persuasion selling in a way that's transparent and customer-focused. Learn how to overcome objections, create meaningful connections, and provide clear, inclusive options to help clients feel confident in their decisions. This is about offering value and earning trust—not just closing deals. Join host Adam Sylvester, Bobby Vickers of Doorvana, and Ben Gonzalez of White Picket Team & Executive Lawn Care.
New to Jobber? Masters of Home Service listeners can claim an exclusive discount for Jobber at https://bit.ly/4d0KAEh
[00:00] Introduction to the episode and guests [01:15] Fundamentals of persuasion selling [03:29] Building trust through transparency and proactive communication [06:10] Overcoming common objections in home services [09:11] Benefits of providing clear, inclusive pricing to customers [11:08] Differences between selling to homeowners and businesses [15:23] Asking clients why they chose your business to build trust [16:13] How leveraging tools can build credibility and enhance professionalism in sales [17:41] Recognizing cues of client connection during the sales process [21:36] Strategies to address client indecision without pressuring them [26:57] Providing recommendations with options for confident decision-making [28:47] Balancing premium product recommendations with client needs [30:25] Adam's key takeaways: Ask questions, be proactive with your objections, and focus on what the product does
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The best salespeople talk30 to 40% of the time,
and then the client is talking 60 to 70.
And so that only happens if youask questions. If you say no,
you're going to put that person on thedefensive and they're not going to say
anything else to you.
So you have to keep the lines ofcommunication open by asking questions.
Welcome to Jobber Masters of HomeService, a podcast for home service pros,
(00:22):
buy Home Service pros.
We're in Las Vegas and today we're talkingabout using persuasion selling to win
more jobs, and I love talking aboutsales. I'm your host, Adam Sylvester.
Today's guests are BobbyVickers. And Ben Gonzalez.
Welcome to the studiofellas. Glad you're here.
Thanks for having me. Thank youfor having us. Appreciate it.
Ben, why don't you tell ouraudience, our listeners, who you are,
(00:43):
what you do and all that.
Yeah, so I'm the COOat Executive Lawn Care.
We're a lawn landscaping businessin the Dallas Worth metroplex.
I also co-own a white picket team,
which is a business management consultingfirm specifically for the home service
industry and even more specifically,those that are interested in franchising.
Sweet Bobby.
My name is Bobby Vickers. I'm theco-founder of Nirvana Garage Doors.
(01:06):
We are a garage door manufacturer andturnkey solution provider servicing
residential and commercial jobs in NorthTexas in just recently Austin, Texas.
Let's get into it. Persuasion selling.What are some of the fundamentals,
just so our listeners understand whatwe're talking about and get warmed up
here, what are some of the fundamentalsof persuasion selling Bobby?
(01:26):
So for me, persuasion sellingis about setting the tone.
So it's great if you canbe persuasive and share
information to get somebody on your side,
but I think it starts with branding andlooking the part when you go to a nice
restaurant,
you know what experience you're goingto have based on what you can see.
We're all visual learners, we'revisual people. And so for me,
(01:48):
with persuasion selling,
I want to make sure that we look the partbefore we get into the nitty gritty of
identifying what somebody needs,what they want, features, benefits.
And so for me, it allstarts with branding.
Yeah, branding is soimportant on the front end.
It speaks volumes before even havethe conversation with someone.
(02:11):
But for someone who's relativelynew to selling one aspect,
whether it's persuasion selling or not,
you're trying to control theconversation as much as possible.
With persuasion selling specifically,
I think a lot of it has to do withtrying to nurture a relationship with
someone. It's asking a lotof prompting questions,
getting to know you and being very genuineabout the conversation you're trying
(02:33):
to have and trying to poke and prodand see what do you you not like,
and then how can I fill those gaps witha solution that they can say yes to?
One thing about the garage door businessis we kind of get to see behind closed
doors. So your garagesays a lot about you.
What kind of car do you drive? Do youhave bicycles? Do you have scooters?
(02:54):
Do you have rock climbing gear?
A lot of times we'll tell our guysin the field to take a look around,
take your time and identify somethingthat you can create common ground with.
So if you see scooters,
there's an ability there to builda relationship about being parents,
and that leads into the convenienceof certain products in the garage door
industry.
So identifying that elementin the garage that kind of
(03:19):
identifies and creates an identityfor that person really helps our
salespeople relate to the homeowners,
which can kind of beginthe persuasion process.
What are some ways that youcan build trust with people?
So I think trust matters a lot, andyou only have 20 minutes, an hour,
two hours with thesepeople for the most part,
and so they have totrust you pretty quick.
(03:41):
Now obviously you've done the workon the front end building a brand,
and so when you show up,
they already trust you some or elsethey wouldn't have had you come out.
What's the next step of trust building?
So I think it's really helpful wheneveryou are in a conversation with someone
to establish some clearexpectations on maybe communication.
What happens if something bad happens,
(04:01):
like having a surface guarantee of ifsomething bad happens and you let us know,
we're going to do everythingin our power to make it right.
That's our guarantee to you.
I think one thing that we try to dois identify objections that we're
used to overcoming, and I wouldn'teven say that they're an objection.
It's really more of a statement. Sowe manufacture wood garage doors,
(04:22):
and in Texas it's hot, it's wet,
so there are going to be somemaintenance requirements for those doors.
So we'll lead with that. We'll say,Hey, this product's great, we love it,
we make it. We can offer itto you at a competitive rate.
However there ismaintenance related to it.
Because what we don't want someone todo is receive a bid and then say, oh,
well what about the maintenance?
(04:44):
Now it feels like we tryto send them something,
sell them something and try tokind of a gotcha system. So for us,
we always want to lead with the defectsthat way it really kind of weeds
out the people that aren't a goodfit, plenty of other options.
And then we're able to say that we aretransparent and above board the entire
time.
I totally agree with that.In my world with the gutters,
(05:05):
people can't see inside their gutters,
and so there's this innate fear thatthey're going to just not do the work that
we're going to say, we did it, butwe didn't. We just charge 'em anyway.
They can't see cut the grass. You cantell if it was done and it was done right,
but the gutters, you can't.And so what we'd say is,
would you like some photoswe send after? Sure.
(05:28):
No one says no to that.
Right?
But some people will even take astep further and say, no, no, no,
I trust you guys.
Right.
And that's when you've gotten past thatpoint and you can just move on to the
next step.
That visual element is great.
And that's one thing honestly we loveabout jobber is that our guys get to take
pictures in the field. So ifsomeone calls and says, Hey,
(05:49):
this happened or thathappened, we're like, okay,
well let me look at the photos.
I'm not saying that you're wrongor it didn't happen, but it's like,
let me look and see.
And so jobber just makes it really easywithout having to get in a company cam
and a third party app.
It's just all right there for the guysto use and we can share whatever we want
with the homeowners at theend, which is very valuable.
(06:10):
I want to go down the wholeof overcoming objections more.
I think that is a huge one for ourlisteners. We can talk about price.
There's a lot of differentthings we can talk about.
Overcoming in your own industries though,
are there any other common objectionsthat you try to be proactive on rather
than waiting for them toclub you on the head with it?
One of the biggest ones that reallyrevolutionized our business was sending a
(06:32):
picture of a closed gate that'sattached to the completion email to our
customers to let them know,Hey, when we left your property,
your gate was closed. And so in theevent of like, Hey, my dog got out,
or small kids are worried about that,
we have something set in place tosay, when we came to your home,
you trusted us and we took careof your home. We did the service,
(06:53):
but we also made sure your propertywas secured before we left.
I can't tell you how many timesI've had landscaping services done.
I don't know that they came,I don't know when they came.
I don't know who locked the gate.I don't know if the gate's locked.
And so that element to the end of a job,
there's a lot of that would bring mepeace as a homeowner just knowing it's
done. And it was you.
Right?
(07:13):
Yeah. In the garage door business,
I think the biggest objection we haveto constantly overcome is just price.
So it's a very fragmentedindustry. In Dallas-Fort Worth.
There's over a thousandgarage door companies.
Oh wow.
Yeah, you just need atruck. There's no licensing.
Anybody will sell you a garage door.
Anybody can learn on YouTube howto do a service. And so for us,
(07:35):
it's just trying to figureout is our client looking for
value or quality,Right? Because we can do both.
But if you're looking forextreme value or cheap,
then we're just not the bestfit. And so what we will do,
and I don't recommendthis to all industries,
but we will present a price before weeven go out. So if you reach out to us,
(07:58):
the first thing that we're going to dois kind of give you a price range to let
you know that this is where we are.
If you're looking for this thing overhere that you saw at Home Depot or that
you saw on a Googlead, we are not for you.
And we get so many times, Hey,
can I just buy the material? Andyou do it. And we're like, okay,
well do you know where to buy punchangle? Well, what's punch angle? Well,
(08:21):
do you have the rail and trolleysystem for the operator? Well,
where do I buy that? It's not on Amazon.
And so I say that not to be funny,
but to say there is a level ofexpertise that you should expect
from your home service providerand you should let them deliver it.
Now, one thing I want to saywith Jobber again is it's great.
(08:43):
Our line items are inclusive.
We do not separate labor and materialBecause we do not want someone to go and
say, Hey, why is it a thousand dollarsfor this operator online? It's 300.
It's like, well, turnkey. This iswhat it costs to take yours down.
Put this one up. That's the cost.We'd love to do the work for you.
But that's just kind of where we arebecause if you start separating, I mean,
(09:04):
imagine if you're like, Hey, Iused a quarter of an ounce of fuel.
Our fuel surcharge is $19. That was seven.
You just invites like, I'm goingto negotiate the situation.
Does arm wrestling match?
Yeah. Well, and we don't reallynegotiate and not in a bad way,
but it's like the price is the pricebecause our guys drive brand new
(09:25):
trucks, they wear branded gear. Wehave more insurance than we should.
We have a manufacturing facility.All of that costs money.
I think it costs us around$68 to get a truck to a job.
So there's a cost associated with it. Andyou don't negotiate with your dentist.
You ever been to like, Hey,I'd like the cleaning for less.
(09:46):
I'd like less for Invisalign.It doesn't work that way.
People think home services areless than when you're in reality,
you should trust the home serviceprovider for your biggest,
most important asset asmuch as anything else.
I like how earlier Bobby,when they asked you,
can I get the parts from you that I'lldo it myself? And instead of just saying,
no, you just ask 'em a coupleof questions. Would you have this, this, and this?
(10:08):
And they were like, yeah, Ishouldn't do this myself, should I?
And it's so much more powerful toask them just a question right back.
For.
Them to answer because itputs them on the defensive.
It makes them look kind of silly,
rather than the amateur salesperson willtry to back themselves in a corner and
say, well, this and that,and we don't do that,
but it's like you're losing at that point,
but the questions are so muchmore powerful than anything else.
(10:30):
Part of it too is you let themtalk. You let the homeowner talk.
I can't count on two hands the numberof times a homeowner didn't say more or
give me information whenI asked them a question.
It's really a gold mine if youjust ask and just wait. Well,
and I think there's acompany called Real a Voice.
They do ride along recordings,and I want to say the numbers,
(10:50):
like the best salespeopletalk 30 to 40% of the time,
and then the client is talking 60 to 70.
And so that only happens if youask questions. If you say no,
you're going to put thatperson on the defensive,
and they're not going tosay anything else to you.
So you have to keep the lines ofcommunication open by asking questions.
Ben,
do you think selling to homeowners isany different than selling to business
(11:14):
to business?
Well, I think you have to put yourselfin the mind of that individual.
What is motivating them?
And I think that really starts tohelp dictate your approach to the
conversations you have with them.
But the establishment of arelationship is still the same,
but I think you need to continue toask probing questions to get a better
understanding of what is your endgoal and what is motivating you in
(11:37):
your context and situation. And thenpursue the questions to close the sale.
Yeah,
motivation is the whole thing becausethe manager of a apartment complex
is motivated very differently than themom of three kids who's at her home.
And so our listeners who, becausewe have listeners that do both,
we have residential lawn care peopleand we have commercial lawn care people.
(11:57):
We have people who do commercial garagedoors and residential garage doors.
And so I think it's really importantfor our listeners to make sure they know
who they're talking to because themanager of a complex is going to have
wildly different standards, expectations.
They don't care about as muchquality, nearly as much about quality.
Usually they just want to lookgood in front of their boss.
(12:20):
I think there's such a reputational riskassociated with commercial business.
So if you're a facilitiesdirector of a warehouse,
if you call someone out and theydon't fix it the first time,
they're going to say, Hey,why'd you pick that vendor?
And you can't say it was becauseof price. They're going to say,
we're in North Texas. Everyindustrial facility is worth 50,
a hundred million dollars. Soit's like you can't say price.
(12:44):
So I think it goes back to branding.
If you're going to sellcommercial services,
you have to look a little differentbecause you're dealing with a facilities
director.
You might even be dealing with an engineerthat's different than dealing with a
homeowner. They know aboutconstruction in the business.
So you can't go in there and be like,well, I fixed it, I did this, I did that.
(13:04):
It's like, no, what was the plan?Those quotes look a little different.
We're actually exploring a differentcontract proposal for our industrial and
commercial projects becausethey want more in there.
The insurance requirements are.
Different, right? More detail.
And so I think there's so muchreputational risk with commercial.
And then I think, so wesell a lot to builders.
90% of our business is to custom andproduction builders across North Texas.
(13:29):
The thing I love about that isthey're easy to reach. If it's bill's,
custom homes, bill's email isbill at bill's custom homes.com.
I can email bill right nowand he'll respond because
if you're a smaller builder, maybeyou build three to 10 homes a year.
So he's always looking to do something.And I don't know about your service,
(13:50):
but garage stores, nobody's happywith their current garage door vendor.
Nobody's like, oh, I love my guy.I sent him to my grandmother.
I sent him to my sister-in-law.They're like, no.
So we love working B2B becausewe can reach these people
at no cost. So if you'retrying to reach homeowners,
you have to be on all these platforms,
(14:11):
all these channels. You have to runcampaigns, you have to get your messaging.
I can email Bill and say, Hey, bill, ifyou don't love your garage door vendor,
we'd love the opportunity to take ajob. We don't want to be your only,
we just want to be a backup.
And then I can call Bill and I can textbill because I know that's his cell
phone on the website.So they are different.
(14:32):
The other thing too, and I'm on this,
but homeowners expectations when youcharge a premium are way up here,
way up here, a builder, Hey, I needit done. I need it done by next week.
And that's it.
So what you have tocommit to the longstanding relationship with the builder,
it's about efficiency. It's about doingwhat you said, where with homeowners,
(14:55):
when you charge a premiumprice, if it's too loud,
they're going to callyou out to come lu bit.
Do you charge a premiumprice to the builder?
So we have different tiers forour builders based on volume.
So if you buy X number of doors,it's this price, this and this,
and everyone starts on the same.Now, a national production builder,
we recently secured a contract. They said,
this is where we need to be to movefrom vendor A to U. We said, okay,
(15:18):
happy to do it. So in certain situations,
we do let them dictate based on volume.
Gotcha. Okay. I think a questionthat really matters to me, Ben,
is I always want to know theanswer to this question, which is,
why did you call us when there'sso many other options out there?
Why am I here instead of anyoneelse? And sometimes people say, oh,
(15:38):
I just Google you. I havesomeone coming in at four.
But most of the timepeople will say, well,
and they'll give you the one reasonand might be small. I see your vein.
I've been seeing your vansall over town for a year,
and that might be the only reason,but at least the starting point, okay,
I have brand recognition with them,
which means I have acertain level of trust with.
Them.
They might say, well, you did myneighbor last week. They might say, well,
(15:59):
I saw all your reviews onlineas soon as I saw your website,
I knew I wanted to hire you. I getthat sometimes. But that matters.
An amateur will go in there and justhave no idea to the answer to that
question, and they wonder whythey don't succeed. Right?
Yeah.
Okay. I want to pause our conversationfor a minute to talk about jobber. Bobby.
How has Jobber helped youbuild credibility and boost your professionalism in
(16:20):
front of your clients?
So we sell a visual product,
a garage door with hundreds of differentstyle combinations. With jobber,
we're able to associate a picture ora rendering to every bid that we sent.
And not only that, the client,whether it's a builder or a homeowner,
can approve or request changes.
(16:40):
So that's in stark contrastto the local garage door
companies that text a number oneday and then when they go to Bill,
it's different, maybe more,maybe less. And so for us,
jobber helps us look a certainlook like we are maybe bigger
than we are to certain clients.
(17:01):
It also keeps the ships going in theright direction. We have a rudder.
I would say that jobber is our rudderfor every aspect of our business,
and it's very convenient.
We have builders that will look at aquote from two years ago and say, Hey,
this job's ready.
And so we wouldn't be able to do thatif it was a text message or an email.
So we love the sophistication, the polish,
(17:22):
and we've heard nothing but goodthings from homeowners and builders.
Yeah, that's well said. I love thesimplicity of jobber too. For our side,
if you want to boost yourprofessionalism in front of your clients,
then you need jobber.
Go to jobber.com/podcast deal anexclusive discount and start making your
business run smoother with jobber.
But I want to get back to the stepsthat are involved here in the selling
(17:45):
process. What are some clues thatyou're connecting your client?
We all know what it feels like when it'sawkward and this isn't going to work
out, but what's the opposite?
What are some ways that you know you'reconnecting with your client so that you
move towards the sale?
So it's different, right? Becauseit depends on the client. So with,
let's look at B2B, really that ismore of a transaction. It's like, Hey,
(18:09):
do you have what we want atthe price? Can you do it? Yes.
That's pretty short and sweet Withhomeowners in persuasion, swelling,
and I like to say consultativesales persuasion, to me,
it kind of gives me alittle bit of the ick.
It's just not If I have topersuade you to do something,
you didn't want to do it.
What I want to do is ask questions thatlead you to the answer on your own.
(18:33):
So the thing I would say is, Hey, doyou value convenience? Yeah, I do.
Does efficiency matter or isthat not important to you?
So I think what you're trying to do iswhatever product you sell or service,
you have features, benefits and outcomes.
And what you want to do is discuss theoutcomes that feature and the benefit
lets you have, so quick example,
(18:54):
wireless keypad on your garage door.
So the feature is youcan access the garage.
The benefit is that youdon't have to have a remote.
The outcome is that when yougo on a walk with your kids,
you can just punch a code.
When.
Your mother-in-law comes over tobabysit the kids, she has her own code.
And so what you're doing is you'retransitioning from this cold static
(19:16):
feature benefit to now you'retalking about the person.
And I would argue that sales is as muchabout human nature and psychology as
anything. And think about this,if you can envision yourself,
the last time you had to closeyour garage door with the remote,
you had to open the door, youhad to get it off the visor,
and if it wasn't there, you hadto go inside. And so for me,
(19:37):
I think if you can get the homeowner,
any homeowner to think of themselvesenjoying the product or the service that
you offer, I think you're winning becausemost people are just going to be like,
I have this thing. It's athousand dollars. It does this. Do you want it? Well,
not yet. I don't know howit's going to really matter.
(19:59):
I was on the phone before I came inworking with the builder and a homeowner.
He's like, Hey, do y'all have openers?First job we've done with them?
Absolutely we do. Can you ask yourhomeowner what matters to her?
Does this matter? Does shewant to timer to close?
So her garage is never left open.
We have a lot of different time.We have a lot of different openers.
And so part of that question was justtrying to figure out how she could see
(20:21):
herself using the product.And once you've done that,
pretty certain you've done more thananybody else that's going to go in there.
You just are, because mostpeople don't get that deep.
They don't let people see themselvesexperiencing the thing that you have to
offer. I think pool companies are thebest. That's the easiest sell. Hey,
do you want to hang out in your backyardall summer and float around with your
(20:41):
kids? Well, hell yeah. Okay, here's thepool sign right here. Here's the pool.
Yeah.
I like telling people, insteadof telling them what it is,
I like to tell them what it does. Anamateur says, well, the garage door open,
it opens your garage.
What it does is it gives you peace ofmind when you're on your walk so you can
close it remotely when you'regone, when you go travel, I forgot,
(21:03):
you can either talk in black and whiteor you can check in color and people buy
what? It's in color.
Yes. Yes. Also, if you're different,
so everybody, especiallywith the internet,
everybody has the same information.They already know what it does.
They know why it does it.
What they don't realize is that nextstep of the outcome of how it's going to
(21:23):
impact them. And so you're absolutelyright, no matter the service,
just paint the picture, let them seethemselves do it and then say, Hey,
does it make sense to moveforward? Not do you want to buy it?
Does it make sense to move forward?
Right. Any other tips on how to avoidthat arm wrestling match with the client?
At the end,
you get to the point where you talk aboutprice and it's obviously time for them
(21:45):
to say yes or no,
and you're kind of just sittingthere waiting and it's awkward.
How do you avoid that?
So one of the things that wedo is we say that in your area,
we have crews that come out onthis day, this day, this day,
a Monday or a Wednesday or Friday. Today'sMonday, we can be there on Wednesday.
Good.
So you go just straight to here's wherewe can be there next. I like that.
(22:06):
They're going to ask,when can you come out?
So you're beating them to the punch.
And one of the other thingswe do is we let 'em know, Hey,
all we need is a credit card onyour account to get you started.
Whenever you're readywith their credit card,
let's go ahead and get you signedup. Just go straight to it.
That's good.
I think one tip I would giveour listeners is never let them
say, I have to think about it, becausethere's a point in the conversation,
(22:29):
we can see it coming.
They might as well have an airplanefly over with a banner that says, Okay,
they're going to say, I have to thinkabout, oh, thanks for your time.
You did great. I really appreciate allthe detail in your presentation. And oh,
you're such a great guy,but let me think about this.
And they'll call you tomorrow.And then they never call, right?
And so we can see it coming a mile away.
We have to interrupt themright before they say it.
(22:51):
You can see it comingand say, okay, hey ma'am,
lemme tell you what happensnext. And they say, okay.
They take a step back and they listen.
After you decide which way you want to go,
we're going to do a three step process.You don't want to say that part.
You say three things. We'regoing to get a credit card today.
We're going to schedule your work,and we'll be here on Wednesday.
And then I like to just walk out for alittle bit and give some time to think
(23:13):
about it.
Some breathing room.
Yeah, it because nervous, it's so tense,right? You don't want to arm wrestle.
And so you come back and they'vebeen able to gather their thoughts.
They haven't been put on the spot.They know what's going to happen next,
which is so critical for the human mindto know because they don't want to just
sign a check and not knowwhat's going to happen next.
So you tell 'em what's on the other sideof the river. Once they jump across,
(23:34):
at that point it becomes notpersuasion like you were saying, Bobby,
I guided you to it through somequestions and some good questions.
I listened and I told you what's goingto happen next. I never let you say,
once they say, I'mgoing to think about it,
then the only chance you have isarm wrestling and never feels good.
Can I push back on that?
Yeah.
So I think today thingsare more expensive.
(23:59):
The cost of home ownership,the cost of maintain,
your home has never been higher. Ithink it's prudent for people to think,
and I think it's hard tothink in a crowded room.
If I have a guy telling me all thesethings, that sounds great. It's like,
why do I have to do it today?
So our approach is that it doesn'tmatter if you do it or when you do it.
(24:19):
We now have given you the informationfor you to decide if it's us that you
want, great. What we'll tell them,right? Because to your point,
you kind of know what's going to happennext. They're going to keep looking.
We're going to say, Hey, ifyou talk to somebody else,
make sure you ask these questions.
And so what we're trying to do is we'vegiven them information. Now we're trying
to help them with the next guy becausethey're not going to be as thorough as we
(24:42):
are, but they're just notlikely that they will.
So we just try to helpthem do the next thing.
The other thing too is we get a lot ofcalls of people that we can't help people
out of area, or they want somethingdone for cheaper and we're like, Hey,
let me refer you to another guy. Thisguy I know can do it at this rate.
And so not everything is zero sum. It'snot either you win it or you lose it.
(25:03):
Sometimes nothing happens and somethingcomes back to you a couple months later.
So I would say if youfocus on the process,
you focus on what you're putting intoevery deal, it will work out over time.
The close rate is a hard and fast laggingindicator of a lot of things that went
into that.Maybe the guy's pants were dirty, right?
Maybe he didn't wear booties in thehouse. Maybe he didn't say yes. And so,
(25:27):
I don't know. I think that'sjust a tough metric to measure.
I know we do because it's easy to measure,but I think it's harder than that.
Sales is hard. What we do is hard.
But the one call close for meis tough. I'm just anti that.
But our deals are bigger.
It's not something that they canturn on and off without much risk.
It's like you're talking eight,10, $15,000 here, and that's a lot.
(25:51):
Yeah,
I totally agree that there plenty ofpeople approve their quote after the fact.
For sure. I just want tomake sure that I do my job.
Just giving myself the best chance tosucceed. Hundred percent in that moment.
It costs a lot of moneyfor you to get out.
There. Yeah, it does. Leadsare expensive, right? Yes.
And I think people deservea certain amount of trying.
I never want to push people.
(26:12):
I want to give them an opportunity tohave a world-class salesperson in their
house. Right?
That's great.
And people love that, whether theyknow it or not, they love that.
Yes. And make this tell thedifference from the next guy.
Totally. And I love giving them ammofor dealing with the next guy. Hey,
make sure he does this, this, and.
This.
First thing, they walk in the door, Hey,do you do this, this, and this? Whoa,
whoa.
The thing we get people on isvinyl trim around the door.
(26:33):
Ours is always included. Everybodyelse charges you more for it. Bingo.
So it's one of those. And we knowthat because we know our industry,
we've seen their bids. We get'em from different sources.
And so it's like also too, they'llsell an opener without a battery in it.
Then they'll charge youextra for the battery.
They charge you nick extra forthe light bulbs. They nick you.
Like being nickel and dime. That'sexactly right. That's exactly.
Right. Make sure you get in writingwhat's included, because with us,
(26:56):
you have everything.
Stuff. I'm curious about whatyou guys think about this.
We're talking about persuasion selling,
and there's a certain amount of ickinesssometimes people association with that.
I've heard for yearsI've heard this phrase,
give them options and let them choose.
Do you think those arecontradictory to each other?
Or do you think they gotogether persuasion selling and give them options and
(27:18):
let them choose?
Well,
I think it makes a difference ifyou're being very open and honest
about everything that's included in yourpricing and the intent and the approach
is I want to add the most value toyou in your home and your situation
so that the problem thatyou have is solved and you don't have to think about it
again.
So.
If you're approaching it with,
(27:39):
I'm going to give you as much informationas possible for you to make a decision
and giving them some space, toyour point to make a decision,
I think it's not a bad thing at all.
So I'll take a slightly different take.
I don't think people want a lotof options. I think that that is,
on the surface, it sounds right,
but I think what people really want isto be confident in the option that they
(28:01):
choose. So if I give you three optionsand then leave you alone, well,
how do you know what todecide? You I need to say, Hey,
based on everything thatI've heard from you today,
I think this makes sense becauseof what you told me here,
here and here. Does it make sense tomove forward? Because if you just,
it's like going to a car dealership.It's say, Hey, plenty of options.
(28:23):
How many people are overwhelmedat a car dealership? Everyone.
That's why people buy cars online.So I think that options are great.
It's part of the job. If youdo the good, better, best,
you'll sell more jobs thanif you give them just two.
That's been proven out over time.
But I think what you reallywant to do is give them three,
but give them a recommendation, areally strong recommendation and say.
(28:44):
Hey, did your recommendationever be the most expensive?
If it's the best, it's thatquality versus value thing.
So we're doing some work in thepreserve. That new development in Frisco,
you're talking four orfive, 6 million homes.
If I went there and I recommendedthem, the least expensive option,
it wouldn't be a service to everythingelse on their home and who they are as a
(29:07):
person. Because the personthat lives in that house,
they're probably an executive. Theyprobably have advanced education.
They're a business owner.They drive what they want.
All of these decisionswere made. Not to mention,
we see the plans becausewe work with the builders.
So we know that they have Indianalimestone in the window sills.
(29:28):
I'm not going to sell. I'mnot going to even say that.
It's a good idea. So I think thatyou have to read the situation.
We recently did a job pro bono grandmotherwas on fixed income. Her door broke.
Our cheapest option wasn'tin her budget. Okay,
we'll do it anywaybecause why? It's one job.
It didn't cost us a ton of money,and we got a positive review from it.
(29:51):
And she's happy and she'llrefer anybody forever to us.
So that's one thing you can do as abusiness owner that you guy in the field
probably won't. He won't say,okay, well we'll just do it,
but we can make that call. What'd youdo? I know. I mean, we'll make that call.
And we do stuff like that fromtime to time because it just,
if you have the ability tochange someone's life by making a decision that won't
(30:13):
cost you a night of sleep, youshould do it. But to your point,
I think sometimes the best product,
the most expensive productis the right recommendation,
but you just have to read the room.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Guys, this has been a great conversation.
I'm going to boil it down tothree actionable steps here.
Number one is ask questionsand don't just ask one.
(30:33):
Sometimes you have to ask 2, 3,
4 questions to finally get tothe real reason that they want to
buy your product or service.
Number two is be proactive withyour objections as a salesperson,
as the owner of yourcompany and your people,
you need to know what the most commonfour to five objections are in your
industry.
And you need to set yourselfup to overcome those before they ever come out of
(30:54):
the person's mouth. And numberthree is focus on outcomes.
Focus on what the productdoes, not what it is.
You need to explain the finaloutcome. With garage doors,
you can close your door fromwhen you're away, peace of mind.
Those kinds of things arereally, really powerful.
And we always try to teach oursalespeople for every product there are
(31:15):
features, benefits, andthen here are the outcomes.
And your job is to try to find a wayto talk to the homeowner and build a
narrative of the outcome. So ifit's walking your kids at night,
if it's letting yourmother-in-law in to babysit,
if it's you're going out of town,
those are the things you are trying toget to and uncover so that you can help
get them the right product.
(31:36):
That was a great conversation.Thanks for being here guys. Bobby,
how do people find out more about you?
Sure. So our company is DOAGarage doors like Carvana,
but a door. And the website is doa.com.
We were fortunate we got all the socialsas just nirvana. So come check us out.
You'll see job site photos, pictures ofguys in the field, and that's about it.
(31:58):
Ben. Love it. So if you need lawncare in the Dallas Ford Metroplex,
you can reach out tous@executivelawncare.net.
And if you need help in lookingto franchise your business,
reach out to us@ypgateam.com.
Bingo. Love it guys. Thanksfor being here. That was great.
Thanks, Adam.
And thank you. I hope thatyou heard something today.
Will help you make your business betterby selling more jobs. I'm your host,
(32:19):
Adam Sylvester. You can findme@adamsylvester.com. Remember,
your team and your clients deserveyour very best. So go give it to 'em.
The best salespeople talk30 to 40% of the time,
and then the client is talking 60 to 70.
And so that only happens if youask questions. If you say no,
you're going to put that person on thedefensive and they're not going to say
anything else to you.
So you have to keep the lines ofcommunication open by asking questions.
Welcome to Jobber Masters of HomeService, a podcast for home service pros,
(00:22):
buy Home Service pros.
We're in Las Vegas and today we're talkingabout using persuasion selling to win
more jobs, and I love talking aboutsales. I'm your host, Adam Sylvester.
Today's guests are BobbyVickers. And Ben Gonzalez.
Welcome to the studiofellas. Glad you're here.
Thanks for having me. Thank youfor having us. Appreciate it.
Ben, why don't you tell ouraudience, our listeners, who you are,
(00:43):
what you do and all that.
Yeah, so I'm the COOat Executive Lawn Care.
We're a lawn landscaping businessin the Dallas Worth metroplex.
I also co-own a white picket team,
which is a business management consultingfirm specifically for the home service
industry and even more specifically,those that are interested in franchising.
Sweet Bobby.
My name is Bobby Vickers. I'm theco-founder of Nirvana Garage Doors.
(01:06):
We are a garage door manufacturer andturnkey solution provider servicing
residential and commercial jobs in NorthTexas in just recently Austin, Texas.
Let's get into it. Persuasion selling.What are some of the fundamentals,
just so our listeners understand whatwe're talking about and get warmed up
here, what are some of the fundamentalsof persuasion selling Bobby?
(01:26):
So for me, persuasion sellingis about setting the tone.
So it's great if you canbe persuasive and share
information to get somebody on your side,
but I think it starts with branding andlooking the part when you go to a nice
restaurant,
you know what experience you're goingto have based on what you can see.
We're all visual learners, we'revisual people. And so for me,
(01:48):
with persuasion selling,
I want to make sure that we look the partbefore we get into the nitty gritty of
identifying what somebody needs,what they want, features, benefits.
And so for me, it allstarts with branding.
Yeah, branding is soimportant on the front end.
It speaks volumes before even havethe conversation with someone.
(02:11):
But for someone who's relativelynew to selling one aspect,
whether it's persuasion selling or not,
you're trying to control theconversation as much as possible.
With persuasion selling specifically,
I think a lot of it has to do withtrying to nurture a relationship with
someone. It's asking a lotof prompting questions,
getting to know you and being very genuineabout the conversation you're trying
(02:33):
to have and trying to poke and prodand see what do you you not like,
and then how can I fill those gaps witha solution that they can say yes to?
One thing about the garage door businessis we kind of get to see behind closed
doors. So your garagesays a lot about you.
What kind of car do you drive? Do youhave bicycles? Do you have scooters?
(02:54):
Do you have rock climbing gear?
A lot of times we'll tell our guysin the field to take a look around,
take your time and identify somethingthat you can create common ground with.
So if you see scooters,
there's an ability there to builda relationship about being parents,
and that leads into the convenienceof certain products in the garage door
industry.
So identifying that elementin the garage that kind of
(03:19):
identifies and creates an identityfor that person really helps our
salespeople relate to the homeowners,
which can kind of beginthe persuasion process.
What are some ways that youcan build trust with people?
So I think trust matters a lot, andyou only have 20 minutes, an hour,
two hours with thesepeople for the most part,
and so they have totrust you pretty quick.
(03:41):
Now obviously you've done the workon the front end building a brand,
and so when you show up,
they already trust you some or elsethey wouldn't have had you come out.
What's the next step of trust building?
So I think it's really helpful wheneveryou are in a conversation with someone
to establish some clearexpectations on maybe communication.
What happens if something bad happens,
(04:01):
like having a surface guarantee of ifsomething bad happens and you let us know,
we're going to do everythingin our power to make it right.
That's our guarantee to you.
I think one thing that we try to dois identify objections that we're
used to overcoming, and I wouldn'teven say that they're an objection.
It's really more of a statement. Sowe manufacture wood garage doors,
(04:22):
and in Texas it's hot, it's wet,
so there are going to be somemaintenance requirements for those doors.
So we'll lead with that. We'll say,Hey, this product's great, we love it,
we make it. We can offer itto you at a competitive rate.
However there ismaintenance related to it.
Because what we don't want someone todo is receive a bid and then say, oh,
well what about the maintenance?
(04:44):
Now it feels like we tryto send them something,
sell them something and try tokind of a gotcha system. So for us,
we always want to lead with the defectsthat way it really kind of weeds
out the people that aren't a goodfit, plenty of other options.
And then we're able to say that we aretransparent and above board the entire
time.
I totally agree with that.In my world with the gutters,
(05:05):
people can't see inside their gutters,
and so there's this innate fear thatthey're going to just not do the work that
we're going to say, we did it, butwe didn't. We just charge 'em anyway.
They can't see cut the grass. You cantell if it was done and it was done right,
but the gutters, you can't.And so what we'd say is,
would you like some photoswe send after? Sure.
(05:28):
No one says no to that.
Right?
But some people will even take astep further and say, no, no, no,
I trust you guys.
Right.
And that's when you've gotten past thatpoint and you can just move on to the
next step.
That visual element is great.
And that's one thing honestly we loveabout jobber is that our guys get to take
pictures in the field. So ifsomeone calls and says, Hey,
(05:49):
this happened or thathappened, we're like, okay,
well let me look at the photos.
I'm not saying that you're wrongor it didn't happen, but it's like,
let me look and see.
And so jobber just makes it really easywithout having to get in a company cam
and a third party app.
It's just all right there for the guysto use and we can share whatever we want
with the homeowners at theend, which is very valuable.
(06:10):
I want to go down the wholeof overcoming objections more.
I think that is a huge one for ourlisteners. We can talk about price.
There's a lot of differentthings we can talk about.
Overcoming in your own industries though,
are there any other common objectionsthat you try to be proactive on rather
than waiting for them toclub you on the head with it?
One of the biggest ones that reallyrevolutionized our business was sending a
(06:32):
picture of a closed gate that'sattached to the completion email to our
customers to let them know,Hey, when we left your property,
your gate was closed. And so in theevent of like, Hey, my dog got out,
or small kids are worried about that,
we have something set in place tosay, when we came to your home,
you trusted us and we took careof your home. We did the service,
(06:53):
but we also made sure your propertywas secured before we left.
I can't tell you how many timesI've had landscaping services done.
I don't know that they came,I don't know when they came.
I don't know who locked the gate.I don't know if the gate's locked.
And so that element to the end of a job,
there's a lot of that would bring mepeace as a homeowner just knowing it's
done. And it was you.
Right?
(07:13):
Yeah. In the garage door business,
I think the biggest objection we haveto constantly overcome is just price.
So it's a very fragmentedindustry. In Dallas-Fort Worth.
There's over a thousandgarage door companies.
Oh wow.
Yeah, you just need atruck. There's no licensing.
Anybody will sell you a garage door.
Anybody can learn on YouTube howto do a service. And so for us,
(07:35):
it's just trying to figureout is our client looking for
value or quality,Right? Because we can do both.
But if you're looking forextreme value or cheap,
then we're just not the bestfit. And so what we will do,
and I don't recommendthis to all industries,
but we will present a price before weeven go out. So if you reach out to us,
(07:58):
the first thing that we're going to dois kind of give you a price range to let
you know that this is where we are.
If you're looking for this thing overhere that you saw at Home Depot or that
you saw on a Googlead, we are not for you.
And we get so many times, Hey,
can I just buy the material? Andyou do it. And we're like, okay,
well do you know where to buy punchangle? Well, what's punch angle? Well,
(08:21):
do you have the rail and trolleysystem for the operator? Well,
where do I buy that? It's not on Amazon.
And so I say that not to be funny,
but to say there is a level ofexpertise that you should expect
from your home service providerand you should let them deliver it.
Now, one thing I want to saywith Jobber again is it's great.
(08:43):
Our line items are inclusive.
We do not separate labor and materialBecause we do not want someone to go and
say, Hey, why is it a thousand dollarsfor this operator online? It's 300.
It's like, well, turnkey. This iswhat it costs to take yours down.
Put this one up. That's the cost.We'd love to do the work for you.
But that's just kind of where we arebecause if you start separating, I mean,
(09:04):
imagine if you're like, Hey, Iused a quarter of an ounce of fuel.
Our fuel surcharge is $19. That was seven.
You just invites like, I'm goingto negotiate the situation.
Does arm wrestling match?
Yeah. Well, and we don't reallynegotiate and not in a bad way,
but it's like the price is the pricebecause our guys drive brand new
(09:25):
trucks, they wear branded gear. Wehave more insurance than we should.
We have a manufacturing facility.All of that costs money.
I think it costs us around$68 to get a truck to a job.
So there's a cost associated with it. Andyou don't negotiate with your dentist.
You ever been to like, Hey,I'd like the cleaning for less.
(09:46):
I'd like less for Invisalign.It doesn't work that way.
People think home services areless than when you're in reality,
you should trust the home serviceprovider for your biggest,
most important asset asmuch as anything else.
I like how earlier Bobby,when they asked you,
can I get the parts from you that I'lldo it myself? And instead of just saying,
no, you just ask 'em a coupleof questions. Would you have this, this, and this?
(10:08):
And they were like, yeah, Ishouldn't do this myself, should I?
And it's so much more powerful toask them just a question right back.
For.
Them to answer because itputs them on the defensive.
It makes them look kind of silly,
rather than the amateur salesperson willtry to back themselves in a corner and
say, well, this and that,and we don't do that,
but it's like you're losing at that point,
but the questions are so muchmore powerful than anything else.
(10:30):
Part of it too is you let themtalk. You let the homeowner talk.
I can't count on two hands the numberof times a homeowner didn't say more or
give me information whenI asked them a question.
It's really a gold mine if youjust ask and just wait. Well,
and I think there's acompany called Real a Voice.
They do ride along recordings,and I want to say the numbers,
(10:50):
like the best salespeopletalk 30 to 40% of the time,
and then the client is talking 60 to 70.
And so that only happens if youask questions. If you say no,
you're going to put thatperson on the defensive,
and they're not going tosay anything else to you.
So you have to keep the lines ofcommunication open by asking questions.
Ben,
do you think selling to homeowners isany different than selling to business
(11:14):
to business?
Well, I think you have to put yourselfin the mind of that individual.
What is motivating them?
And I think that really starts tohelp dictate your approach to the
conversations you have with them.
But the establishment of arelationship is still the same,
but I think you need to continue toask probing questions to get a better
understanding of what is your endgoal and what is motivating you in
(11:37):
your context and situation. And thenpursue the questions to close the sale.
Yeah,
motivation is the whole thing becausethe manager of a apartment complex
is motivated very differently than themom of three kids who's at her home.
And so our listeners who, becausewe have listeners that do both,
we have residential lawn care peopleand we have commercial lawn care people.
(11:57):
We have people who do commercial garagedoors and residential garage doors.
And so I think it's really importantfor our listeners to make sure they know
who they're talking to because themanager of a complex is going to have
wildly different standards, expectations.
They don't care about as muchquality, nearly as much about quality.
Usually they just want to lookgood in front of their boss.
(12:20):
I think there's such a reputational riskassociated with commercial business.
So if you're a facilitiesdirector of a warehouse,
if you call someone out and theydon't fix it the first time,
they're going to say, Hey,why'd you pick that vendor?
And you can't say it was becauseof price. They're going to say,
we're in North Texas. Everyindustrial facility is worth 50,
a hundred million dollars. Soit's like you can't say price.
(12:44):
So I think it goes back to branding.
If you're going to sellcommercial services,
you have to look a little differentbecause you're dealing with a facilities
director.
You might even be dealing with an engineerthat's different than dealing with a
homeowner. They know aboutconstruction in the business.
So you can't go in there and be like,well, I fixed it, I did this, I did that.
(13:04):
It's like, no, what was the plan?Those quotes look a little different.
We're actually exploring a differentcontract proposal for our industrial and
commercial projects becausethey want more in there.
The insurance requirements are.
Different, right? More detail.
And so I think there's so muchreputational risk with commercial.
And then I think, so wesell a lot to builders.
90% of our business is to custom andproduction builders across North Texas.
(13:29):
The thing I love about that isthey're easy to reach. If it's bill's,
custom homes, bill's email isbill at bill's custom homes.com.
I can email bill right nowand he'll respond because
if you're a smaller builder, maybeyou build three to 10 homes a year.
So he's always looking to do something.And I don't know about your service,
(13:50):
but garage stores, nobody's happywith their current garage door vendor.
Nobody's like, oh, I love my guy.I sent him to my grandmother.
I sent him to my sister-in-law.They're like, no.
So we love working B2B becausewe can reach these people
at no cost. So if you'retrying to reach homeowners,
you have to be on all these platforms,
(14:11):
all these channels. You have to runcampaigns, you have to get your messaging.
I can email Bill and say, Hey, bill, ifyou don't love your garage door vendor,
we'd love the opportunity to take ajob. We don't want to be your only,
we just want to be a backup.
And then I can call Bill and I can textbill because I know that's his cell
phone on the website.So they are different.
(14:32):
The other thing too, and I'm on this,
but homeowners expectations when youcharge a premium are way up here,
way up here, a builder, Hey, I needit done. I need it done by next week.
And that's it.
So what you have tocommit to the longstanding relationship with the builder,
it's about efficiency. It's about doingwhat you said, where with homeowners,
(14:55):
when you charge a premiumprice, if it's too loud,
they're going to callyou out to come lu bit.
Do you charge a premiumprice to the builder?
So we have different tiers forour builders based on volume.
So if you buy X number of doors,it's this price, this and this,
and everyone starts on the same.Now, a national production builder,
we recently secured a contract. They said,
this is where we need to be to movefrom vendor A to U. We said, okay,
(15:18):
happy to do it. So in certain situations,
we do let them dictate based on volume.
Gotcha. Okay. I think a questionthat really matters to me, Ben,
is I always want to know theanswer to this question, which is,
why did you call us when there'sso many other options out there?
Why am I here instead of anyoneelse? And sometimes people say, oh,
(15:38):
I just Google you. I havesomeone coming in at four.
But most of the timepeople will say, well,
and they'll give you the one reasonand might be small. I see your vein.
I've been seeing your vansall over town for a year,
and that might be the only reason,but at least the starting point, okay,
I have brand recognition with them,
which means I have acertain level of trust with.
Them.
They might say, well, you did myneighbor last week. They might say, well,
(15:59):
I saw all your reviews onlineas soon as I saw your website,
I knew I wanted to hire you. I getthat sometimes. But that matters.
An amateur will go in there and justhave no idea to the answer to that
question, and they wonder whythey don't succeed. Right?
Yeah.
Okay. I want to pause our conversationfor a minute to talk about jobber. Bobby.
How has Jobber helped youbuild credibility and boost your professionalism in
(16:20):
front of your clients?
So we sell a visual product,
a garage door with hundreds of differentstyle combinations. With jobber,
we're able to associate a picture ora rendering to every bid that we sent.
And not only that, the client,whether it's a builder or a homeowner,
can approve or request changes.
(16:40):
So that's in stark contrastto the local garage door
companies that text a number oneday and then when they go to Bill,
it's different, maybe more,maybe less. And so for us,
jobber helps us look a certainlook like we are maybe bigger
than we are to certain clients.
(17:01):
It also keeps the ships going in theright direction. We have a rudder.
I would say that jobber is our rudderfor every aspect of our business,
and it's very convenient.
We have builders that will look at aquote from two years ago and say, Hey,
this job's ready.
And so we wouldn't be able to do thatif it was a text message or an email.
So we love the sophistication, the polish,
(17:22):
and we've heard nothing but goodthings from homeowners and builders.
Yeah, that's well said. I love thesimplicity of jobber too. For our side,
if you want to boost yourprofessionalism in front of your clients,
then you need jobber.
Go to jobber.com/podcast deal anexclusive discount and start making your
business run smoother with jobber.
But I want to get back to the stepsthat are involved here in the selling
(17:45):
process. What are some clues thatyou're connecting your client?
We all know what it feels like when it'sawkward and this isn't going to work
out, but what's the opposite?
What are some ways that you know you'reconnecting with your client so that you
move towards the sale?
So it's different, right? Becauseit depends on the client. So with,
let's look at B2B, really that ismore of a transaction. It's like, Hey,
(18:09):
do you have what we want atthe price? Can you do it? Yes.
That's pretty short and sweet Withhomeowners in persuasion, swelling,
and I like to say consultativesales persuasion, to me,
it kind of gives me alittle bit of the ick.
It's just not If I have topersuade you to do something,
you didn't want to do it.
What I want to do is ask questions thatlead you to the answer on your own.
(18:33):
So the thing I would say is, Hey, doyou value convenience? Yeah, I do.
Does efficiency matter or isthat not important to you?
So I think what you're trying to do iswhatever product you sell or service,
you have features, benefits and outcomes.
And what you want to do is discuss theoutcomes that feature and the benefit
lets you have, so quick example,
(18:54):
wireless keypad on your garage door.
So the feature is youcan access the garage.
The benefit is that youdon't have to have a remote.
The outcome is that when yougo on a walk with your kids,
you can just punch a code.
When.
Your mother-in-law comes over tobabysit the kids, she has her own code.
And so what you're doing is you'retransitioning from this cold static
(19:16):
feature benefit to now you'retalking about the person.
And I would argue that sales is as muchabout human nature and psychology as
anything. And think about this,if you can envision yourself,
the last time you had to closeyour garage door with the remote,
you had to open the door, youhad to get it off the visor,
and if it wasn't there, you hadto go inside. And so for me,
(19:37):
I think if you can get the homeowner,
any homeowner to think of themselvesenjoying the product or the service that
you offer, I think you're winning becausemost people are just going to be like,
I have this thing. It's athousand dollars. It does this. Do you want it? Well,
not yet. I don't know howit's going to really matter.
(19:59):
I was on the phone before I came inworking with the builder and a homeowner.
He's like, Hey, do y'all have openers?First job we've done with them?
Absolutely we do. Can you ask yourhomeowner what matters to her?
Does this matter? Does shewant to timer to close?
So her garage is never left open.
We have a lot of different time.We have a lot of different openers.
And so part of that question was justtrying to figure out how she could see
(20:21):
herself using the product.And once you've done that,
pretty certain you've done more thananybody else that's going to go in there.
You just are, because mostpeople don't get that deep.
They don't let people see themselvesexperiencing the thing that you have to
offer. I think pool companies are thebest. That's the easiest sell. Hey,
do you want to hang out in your backyardall summer and float around with your
(20:41):
kids? Well, hell yeah. Okay, here's thepool sign right here. Here's the pool.
Yeah.
I like telling people, insteadof telling them what it is,
I like to tell them what it does. Anamateur says, well, the garage door open,
it opens your garage.
What it does is it gives you peace ofmind when you're on your walk so you can
close it remotely when you'regone, when you go travel, I forgot,
(21:03):
you can either talk in black and whiteor you can check in color and people buy
what? It's in color.
Yes. Yes. Also, if you're different,
so everybody, especiallywith the internet,
everybody has the same information.They already know what it does.
They know why it does it.
What they don't realize is that nextstep of the outcome of how it's going to
(21:23):
impact them. And so you're absolutelyright, no matter the service,
just paint the picture, let them seethemselves do it and then say, Hey,
does it make sense to moveforward? Not do you want to buy it?
Does it make sense to move forward?
Right. Any other tips on how to avoidthat arm wrestling match with the client?
At the end,
you get to the point where you talk aboutprice and it's obviously time for them
(21:45):
to say yes or no,
and you're kind of just sittingthere waiting and it's awkward.
How do you avoid that?
So one of the things that wedo is we say that in your area,
we have crews that come out onthis day, this day, this day,
a Monday or a Wednesday or Friday. Today'sMonday, we can be there on Wednesday.
Good.
So you go just straight to here's wherewe can be there next. I like that.
(22:06):
They're going to ask,when can you come out?
So you're beating them to the punch.
And one of the other thingswe do is we let 'em know, Hey,
all we need is a credit card onyour account to get you started.
Whenever you're readywith their credit card,
let's go ahead and get you signedup. Just go straight to it.
That's good.
I think one tip I would giveour listeners is never let them
say, I have to think about it, becausethere's a point in the conversation,
(22:29):
we can see it coming.
They might as well have an airplanefly over with a banner that says, Okay,
they're going to say, I have to thinkabout, oh, thanks for your time.
You did great. I really appreciate allthe detail in your presentation. And oh,
you're such a great guy,but let me think about this.
And they'll call you tomorrow.And then they never call, right?
And so we can see it coming a mile away.
We have to interrupt themright before they say it.
(22:51):
You can see it comingand say, okay, hey ma'am,
lemme tell you what happensnext. And they say, okay.
They take a step back and they listen.
After you decide which way you want to go,
we're going to do a three step process.You don't want to say that part.
You say three things. We'regoing to get a credit card today.
We're going to schedule your work,and we'll be here on Wednesday.
And then I like to just walk out for alittle bit and give some time to think
(23:13):
about it.
Some breathing room.
Yeah, it because nervous, it's so tense,right? You don't want to arm wrestle.
And so you come back and they'vebeen able to gather their thoughts.
They haven't been put on the spot.They know what's going to happen next,
which is so critical for the human mindto know because they don't want to just
sign a check and not knowwhat's going to happen next.
So you tell 'em what's on the other sideof the river. Once they jump across,
(23:34):
at that point it becomes notpersuasion like you were saying, Bobby,
I guided you to it through somequestions and some good questions.
I listened and I told you what's goingto happen next. I never let you say,
once they say, I'mgoing to think about it,
then the only chance you have isarm wrestling and never feels good.
Can I push back on that?
Yeah.
So I think today thingsare more expensive.
(23:59):
The cost of home ownership,the cost of maintain,
your home has never been higher. Ithink it's prudent for people to think,
and I think it's hard tothink in a crowded room.
If I have a guy telling me all thesethings, that sounds great. It's like,
why do I have to do it today?
So our approach is that it doesn'tmatter if you do it or when you do it.
(24:19):
We now have given you the informationfor you to decide if it's us that you
want, great. What we'll tell them,right? Because to your point,
you kind of know what's going to happennext. They're going to keep looking.
We're going to say, Hey, ifyou talk to somebody else,
make sure you ask these questions.
And so what we're trying to do is we'vegiven them information. Now we're trying
to help them with the next guy becausethey're not going to be as thorough as we
(24:42):
are, but they're just notlikely that they will.
So we just try to helpthem do the next thing.
The other thing too is we get a lot ofcalls of people that we can't help people
out of area, or they want somethingdone for cheaper and we're like, Hey,
let me refer you to another guy. Thisguy I know can do it at this rate.
And so not everything is zero sum. It'snot either you win it or you lose it.
(25:03):
Sometimes nothing happens and somethingcomes back to you a couple months later.
So I would say if youfocus on the process,
you focus on what you're putting intoevery deal, it will work out over time.
The close rate is a hard and fast laggingindicator of a lot of things that went
into that.Maybe the guy's pants were dirty, right?
Maybe he didn't wear booties in thehouse. Maybe he didn't say yes. And so,
(25:27):
I don't know. I think that'sjust a tough metric to measure.
I know we do because it's easy to measure,but I think it's harder than that.
Sales is hard. What we do is hard.
But the one call close for meis tough. I'm just anti that.
But our deals are bigger.
It's not something that they canturn on and off without much risk.
It's like you're talking eight,10, $15,000 here, and that's a lot.
(25:51):
Yeah,
I totally agree that there plenty ofpeople approve their quote after the fact.
For sure. I just want tomake sure that I do my job.
Just giving myself the best chance tosucceed. Hundred percent in that moment.
It costs a lot of moneyfor you to get out.
There. Yeah, it does. Leadsare expensive, right? Yes.
And I think people deservea certain amount of trying.
I never want to push people.
(26:12):
I want to give them an opportunity tohave a world-class salesperson in their
house. Right?
That's great.
And people love that, whether theyknow it or not, they love that.
Yes. And make this tell thedifference from the next guy.
Totally. And I love giving them ammofor dealing with the next guy. Hey,
make sure he does this, this, and.
This.
First thing, they walk in the door, Hey,do you do this, this, and this? Whoa,
whoa.
The thing we get people on isvinyl trim around the door.
(26:33):
Ours is always included. Everybodyelse charges you more for it. Bingo.
So it's one of those. And we knowthat because we know our industry,
we've seen their bids. We get'em from different sources.
And so it's like also too, they'llsell an opener without a battery in it.
Then they'll charge youextra for the battery.
They charge you nick extra forthe light bulbs. They nick you.
Like being nickel and dime. That'sexactly right. That's exactly.
Right. Make sure you get in writingwhat's included, because with us,
(26:56):
you have everything.
Stuff. I'm curious about whatyou guys think about this.
We're talking about persuasion selling,
and there's a certain amount of ickinesssometimes people association with that.
I've heard for yearsI've heard this phrase,
give them options and let them choose.
Do you think those arecontradictory to each other?
Or do you think they gotogether persuasion selling and give them options and
(27:18):
let them choose?
Well,
I think it makes a difference ifyou're being very open and honest
about everything that's included in yourpricing and the intent and the approach
is I want to add the most value toyou in your home and your situation
so that the problem thatyou have is solved and you don't have to think about it
again.
So.
If you're approaching it with,
(27:39):
I'm going to give you as much informationas possible for you to make a decision
and giving them some space, toyour point to make a decision,
I think it's not a bad thing at all.
So I'll take a slightly different take.
I don't think people want a lotof options. I think that that is,
on the surface, it sounds right,
but I think what people really want isto be confident in the option that they
(28:01):
choose. So if I give you three optionsand then leave you alone, well,
how do you know what todecide? You I need to say, Hey,
based on everything thatI've heard from you today,
I think this makes sense becauseof what you told me here,
here and here. Does it make sense tomove forward? Because if you just,
it's like going to a car dealership.It's say, Hey, plenty of options.
(28:23):
How many people are overwhelmedat a car dealership? Everyone.
That's why people buy cars online.So I think that options are great.
It's part of the job. If youdo the good, better, best,
you'll sell more jobs thanif you give them just two.
That's been proven out over time.
But I think what you reallywant to do is give them three,
but give them a recommendation, areally strong recommendation and say.
(28:44):
Hey, did your recommendationever be the most expensive?
If it's the best, it's thatquality versus value thing.
So we're doing some work in thepreserve. That new development in Frisco,
you're talking four orfive, 6 million homes.
If I went there and I recommendedthem, the least expensive option,
it wouldn't be a service to everythingelse on their home and who they are as a
(29:07):
person. Because the personthat lives in that house,
they're probably an executive. Theyprobably have advanced education.
They're a business owner.They drive what they want.
All of these decisionswere made. Not to mention,
we see the plans becausewe work with the builders.
So we know that they have Indianalimestone in the window sills.
(29:28):
I'm not going to sell. I'mnot going to even say that.
It's a good idea. So I think thatyou have to read the situation.
We recently did a job pro bono grandmotherwas on fixed income. Her door broke.
Our cheapest option wasn'tin her budget. Okay,
we'll do it anywaybecause why? It's one job.
It didn't cost us a ton of money,and we got a positive review from it.
(29:51):
And she's happy and she'llrefer anybody forever to us.
So that's one thing you can do as abusiness owner that you guy in the field
probably won't. He won't say,okay, well we'll just do it,
but we can make that call. What'd youdo? I know. I mean, we'll make that call.
And we do stuff like that fromtime to time because it just,
if you have the ability tochange someone's life by making a decision that won't
(30:13):
cost you a night of sleep, youshould do it. But to your point,
I think sometimes the best product,
the most expensive productis the right recommendation,
but you just have to read the room.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Guys, this has been a great conversation.
I'm going to boil it down tothree actionable steps here.
Number one is ask questionsand don't just ask one.
(30:33):
Sometimes you have to ask 2, 3,
4 questions to finally get tothe real reason that they want to
buy your product or service.
Number two is be proactive withyour objections as a salesperson,
as the owner of yourcompany and your people,
you need to know what the most commonfour to five objections are in your
industry.
And you need to set yourselfup to overcome those before they ever come out of
(30:54):
the person's mouth. And numberthree is focus on outcomes.
Focus on what the productdoes, not what it is.
You need to explain the finaloutcome. With garage doors,
you can close your door fromwhen you're away, peace of mind.
Those kinds of things arereally, really powerful.
And we always try to teach oursalespeople for every product there are
(31:15):
features, benefits, andthen here are the outcomes.
And your job is to try to find a wayto talk to the homeowner and build a
narrative of the outcome. So ifit's walking your kids at night,
if it's letting yourmother-in-law in to babysit,
if it's you're going out of town,
those are the things you are trying toget to and uncover so that you can help
get them the right product.
(31:36):
That was a great conversation.Thanks for being here guys. Bobby,
how do people find out more about you?
Sure. So our company is DOAGarage doors like Carvana,
but a door. And the website is doa.com.
We were fortunate we got all the socialsas just nirvana. So come check us out.
You'll see job site photos, pictures ofguys in the field, and that's about it.
(31:58):
Ben. Love it. So if you need lawncare in the Dallas Ford Metroplex,
you can reach out tous@executivelawncare.net.
And if you need help in lookingto franchise your business,
reach out to us@ypgateam.com.
Bingo. Love it guys. Thanksfor being here. That was great.
Thanks, Adam.
And thank you. I hope thatyou heard something today.
Will help you make your business betterby selling more jobs. I'm your host,
(32:19):
Adam Sylvester. You can findme@adamsylvester.com. Remember,
your team and your clients deserveyour very best. So go give it to 'em.
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