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March 11, 2025 52 mins

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Host Monica and guest host Ned Renzi are joined by Vani Hari, better known as “the Food Babe,” for an eye-opening conversation about America’s food system. With over 10,000 chemicals approved for use in the U.S - compared to just 2,000 in Europe. Hari has made it her mission to expose what’s really in our food. 

Dubbed by The New York Times as “public enemy number one of big food companies,” she shares how her personal health crisis transformed her into an activist who has changed the food industry.

Vani’s journey started in childhood, growing up in an Indian immigrant family that embraced American culture through fast food and processed snacks. By her early 20s, she was struggling with eczema, asthma, allergies, and endometriosis, constantly exhausted and feeling like she was in a fog. After an emergency appendectomy became her wake-up call, she started looking into the ingredients in her food—applying the same determination that once made her a top high school debater. What she found shocked her, and she knew she had to share it.

What started as a personal blog quickly turned into a movement, with Vani challenging some of the biggest food brands like Subway, Chick-fil-A, and Starbucks to clean up their ingredients. Her campaign against azodicarbonamide, a chemical used in Subway’s bread (and also found in yoga mats), led to major industry changes. But not everyone was thrilled! some companies fought back, trying to dismiss her as a fearmonger.

Today, Vani is focused on solutions. Her company, Truvani, creates clean protein powders and bars made without artificial sweeteners, gums, or unnecessary additives. Now available at Whole Foods and Walmart, these products reflect her belief that eating real food doesn’t have to be complicated.

this episode sponsored by  www.enjoythework.com.

Georgianna Moreland - Creator, Executive Producer & Managing Editor;
Matt Stoker - Editor


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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Food Babe, Vani Hari (00:02):
There's about 8,000 chemicals that are
not even allowed for use inEurope.
I think the approved list lastI heard was around 2,000
chemicals.
We have over 10,000 approvedchemicals for use in our food
supply and a lot of the thingsthat are obesogens, if you will
like.
Pesticides aren't even used ina lot of the countries.

(00:24):
We have to change the culturehere in America if we're going
to survive, and so this is goingto have to be a huge shift.

Georgianna Moreland (00:36):
This is Masterstroke with Monica Enid
and Sejo Petruzak, and welcometo our special guest host, Ned
Renzi.
Conversations with founders,CEOs and visionary leaders in
technology and beyond.

Monica Enand (00:55):
Well, welcome to another episode of Masterstroke.
This is Monica Enan, and I'mjoined again with my guest host,
co-host Ned Renzi Ned, thankyou so much for being here.

Ned Renzi (01:06):
My pleasure, monica, thanks.

Monica Enand (01:07):
All right, ned, we have a really great episode
today.
I'm very happy that my verydear and very old and by old I
really mean long tenured friend,vonnie Hurry Vonnie and I have
known each other, for I actuallythink I don't even remember.
What'd you say Since I was born?

(01:28):
I think since you were born.
Yes, you were little and I was.
I'm actually I was a little bitolder.
I guess I still am a little bitolder.
It doesn't seem that way,though.
But you know, I know her aslittle Vani, but many might know
her as the food babe, don't?
I know her as Little Vonnie,but many might know her as the

(01:48):
food babe, as she has becomewell known for.
Vonnie is a New York Timesbestselling author and I have
seen the way she has changeddozens of multi-billion dollar
food companies and she'simpacted so many lives.
I've seen so many pieces offeedback from people who follow
you and talk about the impactthat you've had on their lives

(02:10):
for the better.
So great work.
What does she do?
She investigates and campaignsagainst various food additives,
chemicals, manufacturingprocesses used by big food, the
major food companies.
She promotes clean eating andnatural ingredients and
advocates for transparency inthe food industry.
She's had you know we talkabout impacting multi-billion

(02:34):
dollar food companies.
She's had so many high profilecampaigns.
She has made companies Kraft,chick-fil-a, starbucks, general
Mills, chipotle, anheuser-buschand Subway remove controversial
ingredients from their products,making our food safer for

(02:54):
everyone.
The New York Times calls Vonniepublic enemy number one of the
big food companies and theAtlantic called her one of the
most popular voices on nutritionin mainstream media.
And a few years ago Timemagazine listed Vani as one of
the 30 most influential peopleon the internet.

(03:17):
And I want to pause on this one, vani, because when I saw that
Time magazine article listingyou as one of the 30 most
influential people on theInternet, I clicked to see who
were the 30.
And the 30 included TaylorSwift, barack Obama, kim
Kardashian, justin Bieber,Beyonce, shakira, narendra Modi

(03:43):
and Ta-Nehisi Coates, who I love.
But I was like Vani, you are inseriously good company on this
list, so I thought that wasreally fun to see you there.
But welcome to the show,welcome to.

Food Babe, Vani Ha (03:55):
Masterstroke Vani, Thank you so much for
having me.
I'm so excited to chat with youhere today.
This is just a treat to be ableto hang out with an old friend.

Ned Renzi (04:06):
My take is if you're the number one target of big
food, you're doing somethingright.
Right, I mean that's just sortof a great claim to fame.
How did you get started as FoodBabe?
Who actually coined that name?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (04:20):
So actually it was my husband.
You know I wanted to start ablog because I had basically
went from someone very, verysick to someone super healthy
and I went off nine prescriptiondrugs.
I realized a level of healththat I never thought was
possible.
You know, I grew up with twoimmigrant Indian parents, like

(04:43):
like Monica and I.
You know, when they came to theUnited States, they adopted the
American culture and theAmerican way of life and they
were so excited and patrioticabout it that they were like
we're going to eat McDonald'sand we're going to eat Burger
King and we're not going to, youknow, make you eat Indian food
every night and we're not goingto make you eat Indian food

(05:06):
every night.
And as a result, I had eczema,asthma, allergies, I had
endometriosis, I had my appendixtaken out all before the age of
22.
And my life when I think aboutthe first half of my life
because I'm now 45, it was likeI was living like a zombie.
I was not living up to mypotential.

(05:28):
I was always tired, I alwayswas scrambled in my brain, I
couldn't pay attention.
You know, I did well at schoolbecause, I think, because the
pressure of Indian parents, butI know I could have done so much
better and excelled so muchfurther if I had been eating the
right foods and excelled somuch further if I had been
eating the right foods.
And when I discovered that themajority of foods that I had

(05:53):
been eating were full ofchemical additives and I didn't
understand what these additivesmeant or why they were there, I
started this quest to find outwhat I had been eating and learn
everything I could about thefood industry, and it was
something that I never thoughtwould lead to where I am today.
It was somewhat of a passion,but it was on the side.

(06:15):
I was working in the corporateworld right out of college and
this was something that I didjust because it was fun to learn
about food, and I started toapply those principles to my own
diet when I hit rock bottomafter that appendicitis, the
appendectomy that I had, and soafter doing that, I started to

(06:41):
use kind of my skills that Ilearned in high school, where I
was a ranked debater.
I got recruited to college tobe in debate and you know I was
number one in the state threeyears in a row.
So, like back then you didn'thave Google to like find your
information.
You had to go to the libraryand look at the microfiche, and
look at law journals and do allof this extensive research.

(07:04):
And so I did the same thingwith my health, and so I started
to check out these big, thickbooks on nutrition, and I
started to discover that themajority of food that has been
invented in the last 50 or soyears was invented for one sole
purpose, and that's to improvethe bottom line of the food

(07:24):
industry and actually helpprocess things faster, make food
more addictive, allow foodcompanies to be able to ship
their products from really faraway across the world, if you
will without spoilingout-spoiling, and to maintain
its same integrity, and try tofind ways to cheapen the cost of

(07:49):
ingredients by using chemicaladditives.
And once I figured this out, Idecided to eat just real food,
and when I did that, it didn'ttake long.
But things started to changedramatically.
All of my eczema went away, allof my allergies went away.
I went off every singleprescription drug, and people

(08:11):
around me, especially my family,were like whoa, what are you
doing?
What is this green drink you'redrinking now?
What is, what are you doing?
We want to know.
And I was still working in thecorporate world.
So I was kind of like thisoutlier in my office because I'm
working with these C-levelexecutives at top tiered banks

(08:33):
across the nation and when Iwould go travel I would take a
cooler with me of my own foodbecause I didn't want to eat
food in the airport and I didn'twant to eat food.
You know fast food for lunchevery day that you know the
three days I was gone.
So I would like make my ownsoups and my salads and
everything and just like heatthem up in the break room and do
whatever I could to like eat asreal as possible.

(08:53):
And people thought I was afreak show and they started to
ask questions about like why Iwas doing this.
And I started to educate thosearound me in my office
environment and my close friendsand my family and they're the
ones who said, hey, you shouldstart a blog, you know so much
about food.

(09:21):
One year it was, it was Lent, itwas Mardi, bra, right.
And I said to my husband youknow what?
We're going to give uptelevision.
And we gave up television and Isaid this is going to be the
time where I start this blog,because I'll have the time after
work.
And I said can you registerthis domain?
And it's going to be calledeathealthyliveforevercom.

(09:43):
And he said that is a terriblename.
And so I said, okay, we'll comeup with a better name.
And in about in about 10minutes he said how about food
babe?
And I said food babe.
He's like yeah, it's availablefor $10 on auction.
And I was like, okay, well, youknow, for most of my life did
not feel like a babe.

(10:03):
So to to to name the blog.
That felt very foreign to meand just funny, right.
And I remember calling my bestfriend and being like hey, what
do you think about this name forthe blog?
Food babe, she's like, she'slike, and I described you
perfectly, you have to have that.
And and I said, okay, well, whydon't I teach others to become
a food babe?
And so for the first year and ahalf of the blog I didn't have

(10:27):
my picture at all on the mainheader of the blog.
Like no one really knew whofood babe was, unless they knew
me personally.
If you found me on the internet, it was like I was signing
every blog post food babe.
I was really hiding behind thisname because, again, I was
working in the corporate worldfor these city level execs and I
didn't really want them to havesuch an insight into my

(10:49):
personal life.
I mean, yeah, they knew I was ahealth nut and all that.

Ned Renzi (10:52):
But I you were intentionally staying in the
background.
Yes, absolutely Great story onhow you got your name Early on
in the answer.
This idea of travel, because Igenerally try to eat healthy as
well and whole foods, and Iactually moved to fasting when I
travel.
So, like I understand whatyou're saying.

(11:13):
Because there's no good choicesat the airport, I'm mentally
fatigued, I know I'm mentallyweak, and so I just decide to
fast because then I don't havethe logistics of planning and
carrying all that food.
And, similar to you, I startedsharing that with my friends and
all of a sudden now a bunch ofthem started to fast while they
travel and stuff.
So I get how this catches on.

(11:33):
I want to go back to this quest.
You're on because we talked toa lot of awesome founders like
yourself who start on this questand they have.
When I was an investor, I'dcall that, like you know,
problem founder, fit Right,because you're solving a problem
for yourself and you're so muchmore passionate about it, and
then sometimes it takes a longtime to catch on and sometimes

(11:55):
it catches on like wildfire andso like when was the first time
you really felt you were on tosomething and how did you know,
like when you you know themessage was resonating with the
audience and your people.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (12:08):
So it was.
It was one of the first timesthat I had felt personally duped
by a food company that I shareda story about an organic yogurt
chain that had just started inCharlotte, north Carolina, and
they had opened up a store inSouth Park Mall, and so Monica

(12:29):
will know that, and I went therethinking that if I eat at this
organic yogurt chain, it wasgoing to be super healthy, full
of real ingredients and I wasn'tgoing to have to worry about
any of the chemical additives.
But what I found out is theywere starting with organic milk
for the yogurt, but then, tomake all the different flavors,

(12:50):
they were adding artificial fooddyes, trans fats, all of the
different additives likemonodiglycerides and other types
of seed oils and other thingsthat they were adding.
And so I figured this outbecause the favorite flavor that
I had was taro, and you knowtaro is not something that grows

(13:11):
indigenous to the United Statesand it's primarily in Asia.
And so I like Googled, likewhat's taro?
And you know what does it looklike?
And it looked nothing like thebright blue yogurt that I was
eating.
And I found out they're puttingblue number one in there to
make that tarot color and it wasreally disheartening and so I

(13:40):
wrote about it and it went soviral within the community in
Charlotte and the other placesthat had this chain that the CEO
of the company reached out tome, apologized and took down the
marketing that they had on thewall that said organic tastes
better.
And that was the first moment Ihad, or the first taste of
activism and how the blog and mywriting and my sharing could

(14:03):
change the food industry.
And that literally just rippedthe Band-Aid and I went after
every single company personallythat I had been duped by, and
the two biggest ones I meanthey're all really big, but I
mean they're all personalstories whether it was Subway,
because I used to eat afoot-long veggie sub every

(14:27):
single day when I was on theroad right before I had my
appendix taken out.
Or a Chick-fil-A sandwich,where everyone around me thought
it was the healthier fast food,but when you looked at the
ingredients they were the samechemicals that McDonald's was
using.
Or Starbucks, where you'repaying a premium for coffee
thinking you're getting a betterproduct, but they're adding

(14:49):
caramel coloring level fourthat's linked to cancer
according to the InternationalAgency for Research on Cancer,
and it's like you know.
I'm like wait a minute, you'redrinking this pumpkin spice
latte in an opaque cup.
Why do you need this caramelcoloring in there too?
This is something that can bemade without that, and a lot of
these chemicals that I ralliedagainst and wrote about are

(15:12):
completely unnecessary.
They are literally there foraesthetic purposes or for you
know.
They found that when childrenlook at brightly colored foods
and they add dye to foods, thatchildren will eat more of that
product than they normally would, and so this is one of the

(15:34):
tricks the food industry uses tomake us eat more, but it's not
a necessary ingredient for thepurpose of taste or anything
like that.
Then, you know, I think aboutAnheuser-Busch.
You know, when I'd open myfridge and beer was the one
thing that didn't have a label,it didn't have any ingredients
listed on the label, and it waslike wait a minute, knowing

(15:56):
everything that I'd known whathad happened to the food
industry.
I know they've screwed up beertoo.
They've got to be addingadditives to make it more
addictive or to make it taste acertain way, or, you know,
adding the flavor enhancers andthings like that, and I found
all of that to be true.
Not only were they adding that,but they were adding sugar.

Ned Renzi (16:14):
How did they get away with not listing ingredients?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (16:18):
Well, for the beer industry is not
regulated, actually, by the FDA.
It's regulated by the tobaccofirearms.

Ned Renzi (16:27):
Oh, ATF.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (16:28):
Yeah, of the government.
So and and it was this justkind of archaic regulation back
in the day where you know, thiswas like these agencies were
separated.
I mean, I'll give you a greatexample.
They tried to ban red numberthree in food and they didn't

(16:51):
get away with it becausebasically, red number three was
the same ingredient that wasused in those little maraschino
cherries and at the time thealcohol industry was selling a
lot of drinks using those.
And so they lobbied thegovernment to keep red three in
food.
But it was banned in cosmetics,so you couldn't use it in
lipstick, cause cancer, but youcan still use it in food.

(17:14):
But that's how powerful thatlobby is to keep the regulations
from happening.
And and as a result of mycampaign against Anheuser-Busch
and Miller Coors they were I pitthem against each other to see
which one would relent first.
And within 48 hours of startinga petition and letting people
know of what's happening in thebeer industry, and this cloak of

(17:35):
secrecy, anheuser-busch reachedout to me, said that they would
post the ingredients right away, that they would start listing
them, and they invited me totheir headquarters, actually
invited my entire family totheir headquarters and was able
to consult with them on creatingan organic beer.
You know they asked me.
They're like what's the onething that you would want as a

(17:57):
result of this meeting?
And I'm like an organic beer.
And you know, fast forward acouple of years later and you
see organic Michelob Ultra beingadvertised on the Super Bowl,
which was just the coolestmoment ever.

Monica Enand (18:20):
That's amazing.
You know you talked about howpowerful these lobbyists and the
food industry and these largecompanies are, and we know that
anyone who speaks truth to powercan have powerful enemies.
So we see that play out overand over again People who speak
out against opioids, for bigpharma or corporations that do

(18:41):
environmental damage you talkedabout.
You know skeletons coming outor arrows.
What has that been like for you?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (18:50):
Yeah, I mean it was really tough at
first because again, I thoughtif I just tell the truth, I get
these companies to change,everybody will be happy, right,
of course this is great for theconsumer to eat less chemicals,
to have more transparency infood and know the ingredients
and all of this work.
But it wasn't that case.

(19:11):
What I was really naive aboutis that I was going up against a
multi-billion dollar industryand they were losing
multi-millions of dollars as aresult of my campaigns.
And I think it really becameclear during the Subway campaign
when I got them to remove achemical called azodicarbonamide
, a chemical they use in yogamats and shoe rubber, that they

(19:34):
were using in the Subway breadhere in the United States but
not elsewhere.
This chemical actually createsevenly dispersed air bubbles in
bread the same way it wouldrubber Like.
If you look at rubber or a yogamat by its side, you see those
little air bubbles.
It's the same thing it does inbread because they wanted the
bread to be uniform and be theexact same every time you went

(19:56):
to any subway.
But in Europe they regulatedthis chemical because when it's
heated it turns intosemi-carbicide, which is a
carcinogen, and also when youinhale it, you can have
asthmatic issues.
So it's a hazard for theworkers using this chemical.
And if you actually get caughtusing it in Singapore, you get
fined and put in jail, which isinsane.

(20:18):
So this is a really hazardouschemical.
But when I petitioned Subway toremove this chemical, not only
did they remove it, but almostevery single bread manufacturer
in America had to remove it.
They went from the number onefast food chain down a few slots
.
They lost so much revenue as aresult of that campaign Because

(20:41):
every single bread manufacturerhad to remove that chemical.
There is a chemical companythat was making that additive
that no longer had that revenueas a result.
They hired lobbyists, pr firms,other people to go after me and
destroy me as a messenger ofchange and try to go after me

(21:03):
personally.
And the attacks they used werevery interesting in that they
called me a fear mongerer.
They called me pseudoscientificbecause I didn't have a
scientific background, because Iwasn't a doctor.
I wasn't a doctor, I wasn't ascientist, I was more of a
citizen journalist, right.

(21:23):
But one of the things they didwas they really insulted the
public with these attacksbecause they tried to insult the
public, as in if you aren't ascientist or a doctor.
You don't know how to eat, youdon't know how to read these
ingredients, you don't knowthese chemicals right, and the
funny thing is, is the onlypeople that have made food

(21:45):
complicated in the last 50 or soyears has been the food
scientists themselves.
Right Before that, it was justreal food, right.
You knew what an apple was anda banana and lettuce and things
that you got from the farmer'smarket.
So for me, once I realized whattype of power I was up against,

(22:05):
it became easier to deal with,but at the time it was hard
because I didn't have a huge PRteam or a lot of people working
for me.
It was me, a couple people, andit was that.
That was it.
And so when these attacks werebeing levied in huge news
articles about me, like you know, the the profile piece I think

(22:28):
about is the one that I wroteabout in my book Feeding you
Lies.
Feeding you Lies was like soldso many copies the week it came
out and I knew I wasn't going toget on the New York Times
bestseller list, because theentire first chapter was about
the New York Times and thisarticle that they had released
about me, this profile piece andI had talked about how the

(22:49):
three detractors that they putin that article all had ties to
the industry, but they didn'treveal that.
One of the guys theyinterviewed to show the counter
point of, I guess, not eatingreal food was Fergus Clydesdale.
He was on the board of SensientTechnologies, the company who

(23:10):
makes caramel color level fourof the pumpkin spice lattes at
Starbucks that I was rilingagainst.

Ned Renzi (23:16):
I'm going to go on this quest where it's kind of
you against the world and youknow like you have all these big
companies with unlimitedresources and hiring lobbyists
to target you, and myunderstanding is you have an
army behind you now, the FoodBabe Army, and maybe tell us a
little bit about how they assistin the work you do us a little

(23:40):
bit about how they assist in thework you do.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (23:41):
Yeah, so the Food Babe Army is citizens
across the globe that not onlycare about their own health, but
they care so much that they'rewilling to share information
with those that they love.
They're willing to signpetitions, they're willing to
meet me at the headquarters ofthese companies to deliver those
petitions, and they're the onesout there that are being the
activists in their own lives, intheir own communities, at their

(24:05):
own schools, at their owndinner table.
Right, they're using theinformation as a revolutionary
act in their own lives, andthese people are just incredible
.
I was just on the road acrossthe United States doing Sprouts

(24:25):
tours for my company, truvani,and I got to meet so many people
that not only care about eatingreal food, but they care enough
to like hold these companiesaccountable for what they're
doing?
Because one of the issues thatI'm having is that no one's
holding these companiesaccountable in Washington, right

(24:46):
?
I mean every single.

Ned Renzi (24:48):
They're funding all the campaigns of the people
approving this stuff, like we'retalking about food here.
But it boggles my mind that,like lead paint was banned in
Europe in 1937.
And it wasn't banned in the UStill like 1973 because of
lobbyists and you know again,you see what RFK Jr did with,
you know his rallies against bigfood in his campaign and stuff,

(25:11):
and the big companies go afterthem.
They're doing all the hitpieces just like you're talking
about right, they have aplaybook and they're executing
their playbook.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (25:19):
Yeah, and, and you know it is really hard
to be the messenger of change,but one of the things that I
always kind of go back to isthat this mission is bigger than
myself.
So if I'm the one who's beingattacked as a result of getting
this information out, it'sbigger than myself, and so, like

(25:40):
I'm going to be protected inthat way and I'm just going to
have to keep going, and, and Ihave to tell you, you know, when
I became a mother, I I softenedmy stance, not not like in
terms of in the, in the, in thepublic eye, but I softened the

(26:02):
way that I do things, because Ididn't want to put them at risk.
I mean, people were at onepoint driving by my house.
I had death threats, rapethreats oh my God, ground for a

(26:33):
lot of these chemicals that weuse, and especially the
chemicals that we use on ourground.
And Monsanto is now owned byBayer.
And when they got wind of megoing to the University of
Hawaii to do a talk on theethics of eating, they tried to
stop it.
They unleashed trolls online totry to buy up tickets, to make

(26:56):
it look like the event was soldout so nobody could come.
Luckily, the event organizersrealized this and they were able
to stop it and fix the systemand when I went, we had standing
room only.
It was incredible, but I had tohave security guards with me
because of the fact that it wasso heated of a debate at that

(27:17):
time and it was right before thegovernment had decided to label
genetically engineeredingredients and so that was one
of the key regulations that wasabout to occur.
So there was a lot at stake forMonsanto and it was a really

(27:52):
heated time and it was scary,but it was before I had my kids
and so, you know, after I had mykids, I kind of just, you know
took a holding these companiesaccountable.
Kellogg's, in 2018, said thatthey would remove all the
artificial food dyes in theircereals, creating new cereals

(28:20):
like Baby Shark.
They're using the most populartoddler song in the world to
attract a new generation ofeaters and they're using
artificial dyes in these, andwhen these artificial dyes are
consumed by little kids andlittle babies, it affects their
brains, it affects their immunesystem.

Ned Renzi (28:33):
It's awful.
I have an 18-month-oldgranddaughter and I was just
looking at some statistics ontoddlers in the US versus
toddlers in other countries.
You picked an advanced arealike Scandinavia or the UK At
different ages.
Our heights are off by incheslike several centimeters inches,

(28:56):
whatever and the only variableis the food intake, right, what
we're feeding our kids.
So it's actually stunting ourgrowth.
It's impacting us mentally, inaddition to all the health stuff
that you experience.
If we could just pause rightthere and maybe just say like to
me.
You've accomplished so much ina pretty short period of time on

(29:17):
this front.
What accomplishment are youmost proud of?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (29:20):
It's probably getting my brother to
eat healthier.

Monica Enand (29:24):
I know your brother.
I was friends with your brotherin high school.
That's such a hard one.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (29:31):
I wish I could say the same, for like my
dad, but it's probably that Imean honestly, like no one wants
to listen to you about foodright.
Like it's just a really hardsubject and I just tried to lead
by example.
And it took, you know, takingdown these corporations,
becoming a best-selling author,becoming, you know, known for

(29:54):
this, for my brother to finally,like, several years later, be
like, okay, I should look intothis.
For my brother to finally, like, several years later, be like,
okay, I should look into this,right.

Monica Enand (30:01):
That cracks me up.
I have to admit, Vani, I feel abit overwhelmed about how to
eat right.
I mean, I don't know, there'sconflicting information.
Is sugar good, bad or carbs?
The enemy Is fat.
The enemy, Like.
I just feel like over thecourse of my life I have tried
and the landscape has shifted.

(30:23):
I never have understood whatthe right thing to do is.
If you had to say, like, whatwere the top three things that
people should be payingattention to, what would you say
?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (30:36):
So I would eat the least amount of
processed food as possible andthat means anything that is in a
package or plastic containerfrom the grocery store and make
the majority of your diet fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, meats
, yogurt, cheese.

(30:58):
You know again, yogurt andcheese from the grocery store do
come in a package, but it's aminimally processed food
compared to an ultra processedfood like Oreos or chips or, you
know, crackers or somethinglike that.
And the more real food that youadd to your diet, the less
processed food you'll eatautomatically, because your body

(31:21):
and your cells and everybodywill be like everything inside.
You will be happy becauseyou're getting actual nutrition.
And that's what happened to meis, when I made that shift, I
stopped craving food.
I stopped having issues withfood because it wasn't a thing
that happened anymore.
It was like you know, my bodyactually craved having my

(31:42):
sprouts that I make on my frontporch.
Right and it was.
It became a non-issue and andespecially when you don't have
it in the house and there's thisthree question detox that I
have at the end of one of mybooks, feeding New Lies, where I
ask people it's really easy howto become your own food

(32:04):
investigator, and it just takesthese three simple questions to
ask every time you sit down fora meal, and it's what are the
ingredients, are theseingredients nutritious and where
do these ingredients come from?
And if you can answer thosethree questions every single
time you sit down to eat, you'regoing to be definitely in a

(32:26):
better place by the third,fourth, fifth, sixth meal.
After you do that exercise,because you're going to start
learning about all of theingredients that you have been
eating, you're going to ask whatare the ingredients?
Okay, well, shoot, I neverthought about the ingredients in
this bread.
Let me go look right, oh, it'sgot monodiglycerides in it.
Oh, well, what's that?
What's that ingredient in therefor?

(32:47):
And you start to educateyourself, right.
And then you ask yourself andagain, you don't need to be a
nutritionist or a food scientistto figure out if something's
nutritious.
Are monodiglycerides nutritious?
No, they're not.
They're a chemical that's madeby the food industry to make fat
from breaking down in a product.
Right, you'll find that out ifyou do the research.
And then you can say well,where do these ingredients come

(33:10):
from?
Oh, from a chemical factory.
That's not going to be good formy body.
Like, everything that comesfrom nature is typically good
for the body in terms of youknow except you know the
poisonous plants that areavailable out there, but in
terms of getting it at afarmer's market, that's where a
person can really, I think,achieve their highest level of

(33:32):
health possible is having a dietthat is less reliant on ultra
processed foods and more realfood.

Ned Renzi (33:40):
Okay, makes sense.
Great answer, Monica.
I'm going to put you on thespot, since you said you were
overwhelmed.
So Vonnie's given us some greatinfo.
Maybe like what are you goingto do different after this
conversation?

Monica Enand (33:55):
Good question, I think you know, I think the
journey of actually looking atingredients has been I never did
that, I don't know.
And also I looked at it and Ijust assumed, oh well, someone's
taking care of this, Like Ishouldn't have to worry about it
.
But I think that actually justquestioning it and thinking

(34:18):
about it and looking into it isabsolutely something I can do.
I think you know I've beentrying to eat less processed
foods and real foods, but Ithink that sometimes you don't
realize, even in basic things,where there's like basic things
that you're used to eating, whatthe ingredients are.

(34:38):
And starting to look at that, Ithink, is definitely something
I can do.

Ned Renzi (34:42):
Yeah that's awesome.
I'm going to check in on you ina month and just test you on
your ingredient knowledge.
All right, ok, you hold meaccountable, like just test you
on your ingredient knowledge.

Monica Enand (34:49):
All right, okay, you hold me accountable like
Vani holds the food industryaccountable.

Ned Renzi (34:53):
I'm down for that Ned .
Exactly, Georgiana put that inthe show notes.

Monica Enand (34:59):
All right, but I have a question, because I have
all these friends that will goto Europe or Japan and they'll
be there for a few weeks andthen they'll come back and
they'll be like oh my gosh, Iate all the food, I ate all the
things, the cheese, and I ateall the sushi and I ate

(35:20):
everything, and I felt like Iate worse, more food.
But they claim that they lostweight and I always say, oh, you
just walked more than you do inyour normal life sitting at a
computer.
But there seems to be a lot ofevidence of people traveling,
know, in your normal lifesitting at a computer or and.
But there seems to be a lot ofevidence of people traveling
abroad spending a few weeksfeeling better, eating, you know
, feeling like they lost weight,when they really didn't do very

(35:40):
much differently.
What is going on there?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (35:42):
Well, there's a couple of things.
Number one there's about 8,000chemicals that are not even
allowed for use in Europe.
I think the approved list lastI heard was around 2,000
chemicals.
We have over 10,000 approvedchemicals for use in our food
supply, so eliminating just thechemicals alone will make you
feel better.

(36:02):
But the second thing is thatthey're using real food and real
cooking techniques, whereaswhen you go to a restaurant here
in the United States, a lot ofit is being the product is being
processed before it gets to therestaurant.
I'll give you an example Likewhen you go to an Applebee's, if

(36:23):
you order rice and chicken, youthink you're getting rice and
chicken that someone's makingthe rice in the back and the
chicken and everything else.
No, it's coming frozen, it'salready processed, it has
additives in it.
They are simply just heating itup.
The rice is coming in a plasticbag so they can parboil it by
throwing it in some boilingwater in the plastic bag.
So not only are you getting aprocessed product, but you're

(36:46):
getting the leach of theplastics too.
Are you getting a processedproduct, but you're getting the
leach of the plastics too, andso this is something that they
just don't generally do inEurope Like they don't have
these efficiencies to make moremoney.
They actually take pride inhaving to cook real food and do
that.
And so, like a lot of, I wouldsay, you know, and I go to
Europe a lot and I go to Europea lot, I have to say it's just

(37:09):
an emphasis on real food, a lessemphasis on ultra processed
food and a lot of the thingsthat are obesogens, if you will
like.
Pesticides aren't even used ina lot of the countries, like
Monsanto is banned for use inItaly, for example.

(37:29):
So it's tiresome, it'sexhausting.

Monica Enand (37:33):
It is.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (37:33):
You know, when you say you're overwhelmed,
I'm, I I'm even overwhelmed attimes because I take such a
pride in like eating as muchreal food as possible.
We have to change the culturehere in America if we're going

(37:57):
to survive, and so this is goingto have to be a huge shift, and
you know it's happening.
I feel like it's starting tohappen.
You know about.
You know, 10 years ago, I think, it started to like a big food
revolution, started to take wave, and then it tapered off a
little bit.
And I think we're back overthere because we're realizing

(38:17):
the high levels of all of theobesity-related diseases and the
food-related diseases thatcould be easily quenched if we
just take emphasis and putdollars where they need to go,
which is towards real foodinstead of all the ultra
processed foods that thegovernment subsidizes.

Ned Renzi (38:39):
Bonnie, if I could maybe just switch the
conversation a little bit toyour new company.
Like I love that you take it onthis problem.
You're solving it for yourself,but like something that
simplifies life for people likeme and Monica is to find a brand
we can trust, and it soundslike you've started that with
Truvani.
Maybe tell us about that?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (38:58):
Yeah, absolutely so.
One of the things that I loveis finding fast food that's real
food, and smoothies are myultimate fast food.
I use real fruits andvegetables.
I use protein powder, nut seeds, all kinds of things that I add
to my smoothie ginger, lemon,I'm always adding all kinds of

(39:19):
things just to pack it withnutrition, and so protein powder
has always been one of thethings that I was using as my
arsenal.

Ned Renzi (39:29):
But when I looked at the ingredients, I was going to
ask you this question because Ido one or two shakes a day and
it's really hard to find cleaningredients.
So what should we be lookingfor in protein?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (39:40):
Yeah, so so the ingredients that I was
seeing and everything that I waslearning about the food
industry, I was like I can'tconsume these protein powders
anymore and so I went to like aproduct that was just like 100%
hemp protein at one pointbecause I just didn't want to
use any of the additives.
And one of the first productsthat we created at Truvani was a

(40:03):
protein powder, because I knewit could be done better, and so
we started with a blend oforganic peas, chia seed and
pumpkin seed and we created aprotein powder without any of
the chemical additives that youwill see in the 99% of the

(40:23):
protein powders that are on themarket today.
You won't see xanthan gum, youwon't see maltodextrin, you
won't see gar gum or locust beangum.
These gums help the productkind of emulsify and stay
together when you mix it, butthat's not something that you
need in the product.
It's an unnecessary ingredientand they've found in studies
today that these chemicalsactually disrupt the gut

(40:46):
microbiome and make it actually,you know, can cause leaky gut
other things in your body.
So this is something you don'twant to have in your protein
powders.
The other thing that I wasseeing in a lot of protein
powders was a lot of artificialsweeteners, and the sweetener
that we chose to use in Truvaniwas organic monk fruit.

(41:06):
But organic monk fruit isreally hard to find without
erythritol, which is anotherartificial sweetener, and so I
searched the freaking globe tofind someone who would make us
organic monk fruit withouterythritol, and we were able to
do that.
When you see the label naturalflavor, people think that that's

(41:27):
coming from something natural,but it can be a thousand
different chemicals made in alaboratory and they're also
tricking your taste buds becausethey're creating the one
millionth best part of a tastein that additive.
I wanted to create the best inclass protein powder and now,
after launching seven years ago,we're the number one

(41:48):
plant-based protein powder.
And now, after launching sevenyears ago, we're the number one
plant-based protein powder onthe natural market according to
spins, and it's absolutelyincredible.
We launched in whole foods inJune and after we launched,
thank you.
We um, and after we launched westayed number one.
Every single month they're outand we just keep increasing our

(42:08):
footprint there, which is soexciting.
We just launched into Walmartfor our vanilla and chocolate
SKUs this month, which is justinsane to think about, because
that's the realm of big food.
Right, if I'm public enemy ofnumber big food, it's a little
bit scary to be with the bigdogs in Walmart, but we're there
and we're going to see if wecan make it there.

(42:30):
It is a tricky situationbecause you just don't know
whether your product's going tosucceed in that type of
environment.
But I'm hopeful because itmeans that Walmart is looking at
these better for you productsand bringing that to their
marketplace and that means moreaccess to Truvani and I know

(42:51):
that means healthier people.

Ned Renzi (42:53):
That's right.
Kudos to Walmart for taking aproduct like that.
So look, I mean, there's somuch good info in the discussion
here, whether it's you knowTruvani, you know joining your
army and helping fight the goodfight.
Where can people go to learnmore about all these things?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (43:09):
Yeah, you can come over to foodbabecom and
truvanicom.
You can follow me on Instagram.
I'm back on X if you want tofollow me there.
Thefoodbabe I'm really excitedabout my account.
I was banned for two years,suspended for two years and I
had no idea why, but I have afeeling that someone just

(43:31):
decided to take me out for somereason, and so I'm back now
which I'm back, and the Food BayBarmy is responsible for that
right.

Monica Enand (43:35):
They reached out, yes, they did?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (43:36):
Yeah, it was funny because I was.
I was submitting my appeals,like you know, in a black box
and nothing was happening.
And I said you know what?
I just need to ask the Food BayBarmy.
I sent out a, told everybodywhat was going on and within
hours I had my account back.
So it was incredible.
They're a really powerful group.

Monica Enand (43:54):
Even Elon can cave to the Food Babe Army.

Ned Renzi (43:57):
I just want to pause for a day.
I made this reference to RFK Jr.
One of the things I wasthinking is if somebody like you
was, you know, queen for theday, president, head of the FDA,
or what like, what would?
What one thing would you changeabout like the FDA and their
relationships with the big foodindustry?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (44:21):
I would make it so that nobody working
with the FDA was actuallygetting paid by the food
industry themselves, like we'regetting any kind of monetary
compensation from the food orchemical or even pharmaceutical
companies.
That's the first thing I woulddo.

Ned Renzi (44:43):
You're saying, like actual government employees,
civil servants are getting agovernment paycheck and they're
also getting money from theindustries.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (44:52):
Absolutely .
They're getting consultingdollars.
Yes, oh wow.
The current head of the FDAworked for probably nine out of
10 of the top pharmaceuticalcompanies as well, so it's
really a revolving door and it'ssomething that needs to change.

Ned Renzi (45:12):
Yeah, yeah, I remember my first job out of
college.
I worked for the Department ofDefense and as part of our
ethics training, like when wewent to a contractor, I
literally could not accept a cupof coffee because they thought
that would influence me ingiving a contract except a cup
of coffee, because they thoughtthat would influence me in
giving a contract.
Right, while you, while youwatch, you know, our congressmen

(45:32):
go on these junkets to theseislands and stuff that are fully
funded by industry, defensecontractors, food, energy,
whatever, and it just seems likethe whole system is so
conflicted.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (45:45):
Yeah, and I mean.
The other thing that I would dois take the subsidies away from
ultra processed food and giveit towards real food.

Ned Renzi (45:53):
Yeah.
So look, maybe I'm off basehere, but like I think it was
like during the Nixonadministration, when they just
like never wanted to go throughfood shortage rationing again,
so they subsidized corn and someof these other things, and now
it's just like the high fructosecorn syrup it just found its
way in.
And now it's just like theyjust keep moving from subsidy to

(46:15):
subsidy to subsidy as opposedto letting the market figure it
out.

Monica Enand (46:19):
Yep, exactly and Vani when you talk about real
food fruits and vegetables do wehave to worry about the
pesticides that they use onfruits and vegetables.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (46:30):
Yeah, I mean, it's better to buy organic
if you can afford it and seekit out whenever possible.
You know, the EnvironmentalWorking Group sends a list out
every year.
That's the dirty dozen, it'sthe top 12 vegetables and fruits
that use the most pesticides.
You probably want to avoid anykind of non-organic of those.
It's like strawberries and kaleand celery.

(46:53):
You know cucumbers, so you wantto look at that list every year
to see what that does.
And then there's like the Clean15.
There's things like avocadosand mangoes and other things
that you can buy that are notorganic, that have a thicker
skin, that aren't as heavilysprayed that you can consume.
So that's one way to determinewhere you need to buy organic.

(47:16):
But I think you buy everythingorganic if you can afford it,
because I truly believe withoutyour health you cannot
accomplish what you need to doin this world.
I know I read this book, whichwas life-changing to me.
I don't know if I sent it toyou, monica, but you should go
get it.
It's called Die With Zero.
I think I did send it to you,didn't I send it to you?
No?

Monica Enand (47:36):
I didn't.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (47:37):
No, I didn't send it to you Okay,
because you were one of thepeople I was thinking about I
need to send this book to, butit's called Die With Zero and
it's about Creating massfulfillment of your life and
when you have your health rightand you have to almost start
treating your health like yourjob, your number one job After
the age of 45, really, it shouldbe your number one job to stay

(48:01):
as healthy as possible if youwant to have max fulfillment of
your life.
And this book is a financialbook.
However, it's more of aspiritual book too, in that it
teaches you what's importantyour life.
And this book is a financialbook.
However, it's more of aspiritual book too, in that it
teaches you what's important inlife.
And without your health, youcan't do the things that you
seek to do in this world right.
And without health, I wouldn'thave been able to come to Food

(48:21):
Babe or start Truvani or do anyof the things that I did,
because I was so that I did,because I was so jacked on
processed foods.
And if I had continued duringthat path of being on
prescription drugs and all ofthose different surgeries and
continued that trajectory ofhealth, I know I might not be
alive today to tell you thetruth.

(48:43):
I mean, I was down a rough road.

Monica Enand (48:46):
Well, and as we live longer, we have to choose
whether we want to be healthyfor the longer years that we're
on the earth.
You can either.
You know somebody said oh well,does living longer mean that
you have a longer retirement?
I actually think it means youhave a longer midlife, like the
midlife portion of your life islonger and you just have to make

(49:07):
that high quality right and notthink about it as you're just
old, longer You're actually, youknow.

Ned Renzi (49:16):
Yeah, you want to increase your healthspan as much
as your lifespan.
Exactly, monica.
You want to jump over to someaudience questions.

Monica Enand (49:23):
I did.
But I had a quick questionabout.
You mentioned that they do alot of testing in Hawaii.
Why do they do testing inHawaii?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (49:30):
Good question.
I mean, it's just, you knowit's fertile farmland and so in
Kauai specifically, they have awhole testing ground for
pesticides and you know, I thinkit's it's you know it's away
from the United States, you knowthe mainland and it's
unfortunate, it's reallyunfortunate for the people of
Hawaii.

Monica Enand (49:51):
Okay, Well, we do have some thank you.
We do have some audiencequestions.

Ned Renzi (49:56):
Monica, I have one from Carolyn Myrie in Dallas,
texas, and so, vani, like youknow, we had talked about eating
out.
Like what are yournon-negotiables for eating out?
Like what are one, two, threesimple rules our listeners could
follow to sort of navigateeating out?
Like, what are yournon-negotiables for eating out?
Like what are one, two, threesimple rules our listeners could
follow to sort of navigateeating out?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (50:14):
Yeah.
So number one don't eat outthat much.
But if you do eat out, choosefoods that are high in plants.
So you know salads and lots ofsides that have different
vegetables.
Ask them to cook it in butteror olive oil.
Always take the salad dressingon the side, because every

(50:37):
single I mean I would say 90% ofrestaurants are using seed oils
for the salad dressing.

Ned Renzi (50:42):
You can ask If you do recommend just oil and vinegar
instead?
Is that cleaner?

Food Babe, Vani Hari (50:47):
Yeah, yeah , and you can ask for that.
On the side, you can use justlemon juice a lot of times, and
then you know you can also dowhat I do, which is sometimes
you eat a little bit of stuffthat you're not supposed to eat
or that you're rallying against,or you know that it might not
have the best ingredients, butbecause you've dialed in

(51:08):
everything at home and you eatso well for the majority of time
, letting go a little bit is notgoing to kill you, right?
You know it might make you feelbad later, but having a little
bit of it here and going back toyour normal diet when you get
home is not going to kill you.
Now, if you're a consultantlike I was where you were on the
road from Sunday night untilThursday that's not going to cut

(51:31):
it, right?
You have to have some things inplace where you have some go-to
meals that you could make inyour hotel room or in your
Airbnb or whatever, that arequick and easy.
Or seeking out restaurants thatyou know that don't use seed
oils or using more real food.
Nationally there's a chainthat's expanding called True
Food, and it was actually DrAndrew Wiles, you know

(51:58):
restaurant for a long time andnow it's owned by someone else,
but it's an amazing restaurantthat's taking care of the
ingredients that they're servingtheir customers.

Monica Enand (52:08):
So that's another one I recommend.
I love True Food Kitchen andhearing you ask about where the
meat is from.
You know I live in Portland,oregon and there's like a
Portlandia skit about how muchwe ask about where the meat is
from and where, you know, govisit the chickens and all that.
So if you haven't seen that,okay, but I have a burning
wrap-up question.
So if you haven't seen that,okay, but I have a burning

(52:30):
wrap-up question.
So when they make an ErinBrockovich-style blockbuster
movie about you, is PriyankaChopra your choice to play you
in?

Ned Renzi (52:38):
the movie.

Monica Enand (52:39):
Like who if Steven Spielberg or Greta Gerwig
better than that is listeningyeah.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (52:46):
I don't know that's a good question.
That is a really good question.
I mean that's a good question.
I don't know it's a goodquestion, that's a really good
question.
I mean, I that's a goodquestion, I don't know, it's got
to be an indian girl lady womanum actress.

Monica Enand (52:57):
There's going to be so many of them out there,
yeah yeah maybe you'll playyourself.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (53:02):
Take on a new chapter?
No, no, I didn know.
I do not want to act.

Monica Enand (53:08):
Well, thank you so much, Bonnie, for being with us
today.
It has been so informative andreally important topic for all
of our listeners to be listeningto.
They can check things, get yourbooks, check things out about
your blog or, I guess, yourarticles and join the Food Babe
Army at foodbabecom and checkout Truvani Protein powder at

(53:30):
Walmart or Whole Foods orwherever I don't know.

Food Babe, Vani Hari (53:34):
Yeah, Walmart, Whole Foods Sprouts.
You can get it on Amazon.
You can go on the websitetruvanicom.
We also created a bar whichuses ingredients that you would
find in your own kitchen, so wehave 12 flavors of the bar.
It's absolutely incredible.
My kids are obsessed.

Monica Enand (53:49):
I gotta hide them from them alright, we are
definitely going to be checkingthose out.
Well, thank you very much, andthank you, ned, for joining me
to co-host today.
And that is another episode ofMasterstroke.
Thank you so much to ourexecutive producer, georgiana
Marland in Moreland.

Georgianna Moreland (54:14):
Thank you for listening today.
We would love for you to followand subscribe.
Monica and Sejo would love tohear from you.
You can text us directly fromthe link in the show notes of
this episode.
You can also find us on theLinkedIn page at Masterstroke
Podcast with Monica Enid andSejo Petrozak.
Until next time.
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