April 18, 2024 • 26 mins
Of the truly infinite things Vanessa likes to rant about, few top the list like math’s marketing problem - which is why she was elated to chat with social media mathstar Howie Hua! Today Howie shares how his own experiences with math anxiety sucked the joy out of math when he was a student, and how he started to bring it back for both himself and his students when he became a teacher. He’s built a massive following on TikTok and beyond by sharing quick and fun explainer videos and math memes, and his enthusiasm for learning is a true delight - enjoy!
About Howie (Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube)
Howie Hua is a math instructor at Fresno State teaching math to future elementary school teachers. He has built a large following online, sharing short teaching tips, memes, and math explainer videos on TikTok and other social media platforms in a mission to make math more fun and accessible to all.
Show notes:
- Howie’s website & linktree
- The birthday paradox
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Howie Hua (00:02):
When I was an undergrad, I thought of my
professors as like mini bossbattles, it's like, I need to
defeat this boss to get mydegree.
now that I'm on the other side,I'm like, no, the teacher and
the student are on the sameside.
I think math can be marketedbetter.
Maybe they don't want to watchlike a 20 minute YouTube video,
if they just want a one minuteexplainer, I can do it.
(00:22):
I joined TikTok kids are thereanyways, might as well just have
them learn while they're onthere.
Vanessa Vakharia (00:28):
Hi, I'm Vanessa Vakharia, aka The Math
Guru, and you're listening toMath Therapy, a podcast that
explores the root causes of mathtrauma, and the empowering ways
we can heal from it.
Whether you think you're a mathperson or not, you're about to
find out that math people don'tactually exist.
But the scars that math classleft on many of us definitely
do.
Oh, and don't worry, nocalculators or actual math were
(00:51):
involved in the making of thispodcast.
Who is ready to meet a real lifemath TikTok celeb?
You are, I am, we all are, andit is happening.
Today, you're going to meetHowie Hua, math teacher
extraordinaire and viral mathcelebrity, who is legit making
math cool on the internet.
If you know me, you know justhow obsessed I am with improving
(01:13):
math's horrible reputation inmass media and Howie is doing
just that by making it fun andaccessible to absolutely
everyone.
Today you're going to find outhow he's doing that, why it's
such an important factor inhelping our students build
better relationships with math,and the most TMZ level gotcha
question ever posed on thispodcast: what is your favorite
number and why is it 7?
(01:34):
The answer will shock you!Howie, welcome to the podcast.
Howie Hua (01:41):
Hi Vanessa, thank you so much for having me.
Vanessa Vakharia (01:44):
I'm so excited you're here.
Just for the listeners to knowHowie's hair looks amazing.
Basically the Justin Bieber ofmath right now.
Very jealous.
Howie Hua (01:53):
Aw,
Vanessa Vakharia (01:53):
Okay.
So I have to say, you were thefirst TikTok celebrity I've had
on the podcast since, I've onlyhad one other one and it was
Kyne.
Do you know who that is?
Howie Hua (02:03):
She's amazing, yeah.
Vanessa Vakharia (02:04):
And I feel like I had her like before she
broke because now she's sofamous.
But what I was going to ask is,so like Kyne obviously does, she
has a whole thing of doing mathand drag.
It's so incredible.
I love it.
I'm so glad it's taken off.
But you've also taken off fordoing math on TikTok.
And I wondered if you couldexplain to us like what your
thing is, like what do you do?
Howie Hua (02:24):
What my thing is, um, I just really like explaining
the whys, because I think peoplejust deserve to understand
what's happening, and there's alot of K 12 math that I didn't
really understand when I was astudent.
Um, it wasn't until I was ateacher after my master's in
math, that I'm like, Oh, that'swhat's happening.
so I just wanted to share all ofthat.
(02:45):
I'm super low tech.
I just use a whiteboard.
so yeah,
Vanessa Vakharia (02:48):
Well, I think that's actually one of the
coolest things about you becauseI'm really big on making math
accessible, right?
To like everyone.
And TikTok, I feel like socialmedia gets such shade because
people don't take the platformseriously.
But you're like, my goal is toreach people that wouldn't
traditionally be trying to learnmath, right?
Like, otherwise they would be inschool or they'd be like at
teacher's college or whatever.
(03:09):
So you're reaching all of thesepeople who happen to be on this
platform, many of whom probablyhave never been interested in
math before.
Howie Hua (03:17):
Yeah, that's half of the reason why I made a TikTok.
One half was that I'm a verysentimental person.
I hate things ending.
So, uh, half the reason why Imade a TikTok was because I
wanted to still teach my paststudents who are future
teachers, or currently teachers.
And, you know, I do teach math,so there's a lot of math that I
(03:37):
cannot teach in class becauseit's not, like, part of the
curriculum or the standards.
So I'm like, hey, like, if youstill wanna, I have a
newsletter, I send them anewsletter if they want to still
hear from me.
They can sign up using theiremail address and I said, if you
still want to learn math fromme, I just made a TikTok.
So follow me there.
And the other half was that Ithink math can be marketed
(03:58):
better.
So maybe they don't want towatch like a 20 minute YouTube
video on something, it's like,if they just want a one minute
explainer, I can do it.
I joined when TikTok had a oneminute cap, um, so it's, like,
try to explain it as quickly aspossible and as succinct as
possible.
So yeah, that was half thereason why I made a TikTok in
the first place, because kidsare there anyways, teenagers are
(04:19):
there, adults are there, so it'slike, might as well just have
them learn while they're onthere,
Vanessa Vakharia (04:24):
What do you think, like, it's interesting
what you just said about beinglike, try to explain it as fast
as I can in a minute.
I think there are so manybenefits to that, just because,
like, first of all, I certainlyhave zero attention span, and I
know that most kids don'teither, but I actually get a lot
of shade myself whenever I, postsomething, like, okay, sorry,
I've ranted to every podcastguest about this.
And you're going to be, you'regoing to, this is going to be
(04:44):
our supercut is me ranting aboutthis.
I've been getting all this shadefor talking about the times
tables and not like fullyexplaining.
So for example, like I did thisminute long video about like how
cool the nine times tables areand all the tricks you can do.
And all of these people arelike, you need to explain the
why and this and that.
And I'm sort of like, Okay, butthe whole point is I have one
minute and I'm trying to engagean audience that otherwise
(05:06):
wouldn't be engaged, and topique their curiosity.
Do you feel that's irresponsibleof me?
Do you feel there is a benefitand a curse to only having a
minute?
Like, what are your thoughts?
Howie Hua (05:16):
You could always have a second part.
It's like now that I piqued yourcuriosity, here's why it works.
So you could do a second part.
But like every video has itspurpose and like no one can
expect a video to be likecomplete, you know.
It's like, there's going to besomething, that you missed or
that someone misses or whatever.
So it's, we just need to allaccept that like not everything
can fit in a single video.
(05:38):
There's always going to bedifferent cases to consider and
all of that.
So
Vanessa Vakharia (05:43):
Do you, what kind of reaction do you get from
your videos and who is youraudience?
Like, do you find that peoplelike, are like, Oh my God, I
never liked math and then Ifound your account?
Howie Hua (05:50):
Yeah, there's like half that and half like, I'd
rather do the long divisionalgorithm.
It's like, okay, but do youunderstand what's happening?
Like, um, do you know what carrythe one means?
Do you know what bring down thetwo means?
So there's that, but everyonehas different values.
So I don't take any of that tooseriously.
Some people are like, I justwant to get the answer and
(06:11):
that's great.
Some people are more like, Iwant to understand what's
happening.
That's great.
But I just need to remember thateveryone has different values
and you really can't pleaseeveryone.
Vanessa Vakharia (06:20):
Well, that's wise words.
I mean, I need to hear thisbecause, what do I say to the
trolls?
Like, do you have haters?
Howie Hua (06:25):
I don't even reply to them just because it's like,
they want that.
Yeah, I mean, like, there's alot of accounts that just don't
have their like, actual name,their picture.
So if you're hiding behind ananonymous name, you're going to
talk whatever you want, with noconsequences, they're going to
feel like that.
So I don't really take any ofthat to heart.
Vanessa Vakharia (06:43):
Wow, you're a better person than me, Howie.
Thank you so much.
Um, I, So I've heard a lot oftalk lately about humanizing
mathematics.
People love to say the termhumanizing mathematics.
And I often wonder, like, when aterm gets so big that we just
use it without contextualizingit for people, what it actually
means.
And I actually wondered when Iwas thinking about you, I was
like, does humanizingmathematics have to do with
(07:06):
making math accessible to morepeople?
Like, what do you think?
Are those two things, like, iswhat you're doing humanizing
mathematics?
Howie Hua (07:15):
So when I think of humanizing mathematics, I think
that, when I was in K 12 andeven in my bachelor's program in
math, I just wished that I was arobot.
I wished that I could just likememorize all of these things.
Even like when I finished mybachelor's degree, or actually
during my bachelor's degree, Ithought that to be good at math,
all I needed to do was memorizeformulas, theorems, definitions,
(07:36):
and just that's it.
Like that's what it means to begood at math.
Um, so rather than wishing thatyou're a robot that, we just
think about how math iscreative, how math is
accessible, that we think ofmath in so many different and
correct ways, and just honorthat and go from there.
Vanessa Vakharia (07:54):
Hmm.
Howie Hua (07:54):
To see that there's so many different ways of
approaching a problem, it's notjust about memorizing, and all
of that.
And just make math class a wayof we're just like listening to
each other, building off ofpeople's ideas rather than like,
just follow this algorithm andthen you're good.
Vanessa Vakharia (08:11):
Do you think that like in doing that, because
in a way you're doing that too,right?
You're kind of like here, I'mdoing this on a different
platform, I'm sharing adifferent perspective with a
different audience, likeallowing different people to
access it, which to me is likethe epitome of humanizing
mathematics, right?
Allowing everyone to feel liketheir humanness is respected and
belongs in the math class.
How closely do you think ourlack of doing that leads to math
(08:36):
trauma or, like, math anxietyfor kids?
Like, how related are those twoto you?
Howie Hua (08:40):
Yeah, I teach math to future elementary school
teachers, and a lot of them, Iask them like, raise your hand
if you've ever done it adifferent way than your teacher,
and you got it correct, but theymarked you wrong because you
didn't do it their way.
And almost every single timeeveryone raises their hand.
Um, math should be accessibleand math should be,
understandable to them.
(09:01):
It's like, well, it made senseto me.
I did a long division algorithmvideo maybe two weeks ago and so
many students, or not longdivision partial quotients, like
what's with this new way ofdividing even though it's not
new.
Vanessa Vakharia (09:13):
Wait, what is that?
What is the, what, tell me whatit is.
Howie Hua (09:16):
Yeah, so like partial quotient.
So say that we're doing, 136divided by four.
Partial quotients would be,okay, how many 4s are in 136?
Someone can say, well I know 254s is 100, I have 36 left, I
know 9 4s is 36, so we justcombine what we have, so 25
Vanessa Vakharia (09:37):
Wait, what?
I've never done that! Is it 25plus 9?
Howie Hua (09:41):
Yeah.
So
Vanessa Vakharia (09:41):
Wait, I love, see, this is what's so cool, is
like my mind would never workthat way.
Like I get what you did.
I would never think to do thatin my life.
Like why would I choose ahundred and why would I choose,
like, I have so many questionsalso for everyone listening, if
you're like fucking stressed outright now, it's so hard to do
this kind of thing withoutpaper.
So like, just keep in mind thatlike, this is hard for even me.
(10:02):
Like I'm like looking into mybrain for these numbers.
And I also, I never do math withguests on the podcast.
This is the second time I'vedone it ever, because it's
actually, I get serious mathanxiety.
Like I start being like, Oh myGod, what if I can't calculate
this?
But also who fucking gives afuck the whole point is that
we're learning.
That's the whole point is like,we don't know everything.
Okay, so I totally took awayfrom your initial point, which
(10:23):
was that you were doing a videoon partial quotients.
Howie Hua (10:26):
Yeah.
And so many people would saylike, that is how I would
naturally do it, but, theteacher would mark me wrong I
didn't do it with long division.
Vanessa Vakharia (10:34):
i see.
Okay.
So here's the thing.
You know, we're on a podcastabout math trauma and about math
anxiety, and you were talkingabout what like prompted you to
do this is even though you havea degree in math, and in
teaching, you were kind of like,I don't even understand the math
behind what I'm teaching, like,I was never taught it.
Have you, Have you ever feltanxious around math?
Like do you have you ever hadanxiety around math yourself?
Howie Hua (10:55):
Yeah, uh, there was, one class in college that made
me cry.
Um, on the first test, I got a48%.
and I was literally, when I sawthat, I was in my bedroom, just
like laying on the floor crying.
Cause it's like, how am I goingto recover from a 48 percent, on
my first test?
Vanessa Vakharia (11:14):
Well, how did you do it?
Howie Hua (11:16):
Well, I ended up with a C with a 66 or 69 percent.
So, yeah, I'm very grateful.
Only six of us passed out oflike 24 students.
It was a really hard class.
Um, so,
Vanessa Vakharia (11:29):
I have some questions this.
The first is, was that the firsttime you experienced any sort of
like nervousness around math?
Howie Hua (11:36):
Yeah, and it just, and it, it just like, okay,
like, screw all of thecreativity and all of that, I
just want to memorize things.
Cause like, when you're in a,when you're in a situation like
that where your grade is on theline, it's like, I'm just going
to do my best to memorize.
I'm not going to care aboutanything else.
I just want to memorize this andthat's it.
There's no joy.
It was just like, just memorizeas can.
Vanessa Vakharia (11:58):
Okay, but you've hit on something really
important.
Because it's, you know, I talkabout math trauma a lot, and
when we think about math trauma,we always think it's like some
huge thing, like someone yellingat you or being bullied.
But we all have these littletiny like wounds around math.
And I don't know if, would youever, would you consider
yourself as someone havingexperienced math trauma or no?
Howie Hua (12:17):
Uh I mean, does it count that when I look at an
exit number, whenever I see thatmath course number, I get, like,
I get really, not scared, but Iget, I just remember that math
class.
Yeah.
Then, yeah.
Vanessa Vakharia (12:31):
Because that's, and it's not again, I'm
not trying to be like, Howie,you, come on my podcast so I can
tell you your traumas.
I'm just like, I actually thinkit's really important for us to
relate to our students this wayand being like, we've all had at
least one experience with maththat has made us feel like very
uncomfortable.
And I've never actually heardanyone talk about what you're
(12:51):
talking about, which is that,and I don't want to phrase this
wrong, so tell me if I'mincorrect, but it's like, you're
going along your life, math isjoyful, math is good, and some
experience in math made you feellike the joy was much less
important than getting thegrade.
Howie Hua (13:07):
Yeah.
Yeah, because, like, I don'twant an F on my transcript you
know?
don't, I want like, I want tograduate with honors.
Like, I don't want to retakethis class.
Vanessa Vakharia (13:16):
That's deep to me because it's like in that
moment you had to sacrifice thejoy you felt your whole life and
be like, what strategies can Iuse to just get the mark?
And I would wager that ourstudents feel like that all the
time.
Howie Hua (13:28):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Vanessa Vakharia (13:31):
So how, how is it fair of us to be like, Don't
worry about the mark, like joy,creativity, la, like, what if
someone had said that to you?
Howie Hua (13:40):
Yeah.
I mean, like, right now, I dotips of the day.
I start every day with a tip ofthe day.
And it's really funny that we'retalking about this because the
next tip of the day that I'mgiving to my Thursday class is
"focus on the learning, thegrade will earn itself".
Um.
And before that, one of myprevious tips is that"The
teacher and the student are onthe same side".
(14:01):
So just like building thatrelationship, it's like, hey,
we're all on the same side.
Because when I was an undergrad,I thought of my professors as
like mini boss battles, like inthe way of getting my degree.
It's like, I need to defeat thisboss to like get, get my degree.
But now that I'm on the otherside, I'm like, no, like
teachers want to help students.
(14:21):
Um, So, I'm very big on beingexplicit with my students.
It's like, hey, remember, we'reall on the same side, so ask as
many questions as you want, cometo office hours.
If you're too afraid to askquestions in front of everyone,
just ask me after class, beforeclass, through email.
But yeah, just being reallyexplicit that we're all on the
same side, and if you just focuson learning, I promise you the
(14:44):
grade will earn itself.
Vanessa Vakharia (14:45):
Do you?
Do you really believe that?
Howie Hua (14:47):
Yeah, yeah because grade, the grade reflects the
learning.
Vanessa Vakharia (14:51):
Because the grade reflects the learning.
I really like that because Ialso think this is a really
important thing for parents andstakeholders to know when
they're like, Oh my God, why areyou wasting all this time with
our kids and teaching them aboutlike the emotional component of
math and all this learning?
And you're like, no.
Like I always say this too,where I'm like, the goal of math
therapy isn't for a kid to get a90.
(15:13):
But if you're helping a childbuild a better relationship with
math, the grades will come.
I mean, like, I'm not sayingthey'll get a 90, but like,
they're going to end up doingbetter because they have all
these math adjacent skills thatwill help them do better.
They'll be more confident.
They'll be more resilient.
They'll be more enthusiastic.
You know what I mean?
Like all those things.
So I think that's actually areally like profound, a really
powerful quote.
I'm saying powerful because I'vesaid powerful in every
(15:34):
interview.
Um, I actually watched a videoyou just posted about how you
don't like to use the word"you".
Howie Hua (15:41):
Oh, yeah.
Vanessa Vakharia (15:42):
I want to hear about that.
That was juicy.
Howie Hua (15:44):
Oh, yeah.
So my freshman year of college,I took a communications class
and something that stuck out tome was she said you is one of
the most powerful words.
Like you did this wrong, youdidn't get this correct, and
that like stuck with me and thatwas like 14 years ago.
I still remember that.
(16:05):
So I'm like, yeah, you is apowerful word.
So I try to avoid it wheneverit's anything negative, like
pointing out their work andsaying, like, you got this
wrong, you use the wrongformula.
We could just like talk aboutthe work without connecting it
to the student.
It's like, Oh, this formulawould be used for perimeter
rather than area.
Vanessa Vakharia (16:23):
Oh my god.
Howie Hua (16:25):
Rather than saying like, you got this wrong, you
know, so
Vanessa Vakharia (16:28):
I love that because I mean, I talk a lot
about how powerful language isand like, it's funny because
I've never even thought aboutthis particular word.
You know, I think about wordslike, oh, it's really tricky to
use the word hard or easy, likethere's so many to, but"you",
who would think, yeah, like thatidea of like.
Would you say you should usethe, or like maybe it's an okay
idea to use the word you whenyou're saying something
(16:49):
positive?
Howie Hua (16:50):
Exactly.
Because it's so powerful, Iwould use it for positive.
It's like"you did an amazingjob".
I can tell you put a lot ofeffort into this.
So just know that the word youis so powerful that I would
personally not use it foranything negative But I would
absolutely use it for positive.
Cause like written language canbe interpreted in so many
different ways.
(17:11):
So like, even though I try to bekind, the word you can just like
totally make it so personal.
It's like, you forgot to dothis.
Like they could take it so hard.
And like, I don't blame thembecause, it's just written.
They can interpret it howeverthey want.
So, I just avoid it.
Vanessa Vakharia (17:28):
Honestly, that's such a great tip and it's
so easy do, right?
Like I love things that you'relike, this is so easy.
This is just a really quick fix.
Okay.
Oh my God.
This is incredible.
You're an incredible humanbeing.
Do your, do your students thinkyou're so cool because you're on
TikTok?
Like, does it make you like, dothey listen more?
Howie Hua (17:43):
This, this semester was the first semester, that
students actually registered formy class because they knew me
from TikTok.
no one else before this knew,but
Vanessa Vakharia (17:53):
That's cool!
Howie Hua (17:54):
yeah I tell them, it's like half the reason why I
make this, why I have an accountis for you.
so, you'll notice that I do alot of like repeated videos.
Like I'll just like remake them.
And it's more for my students.
It's like, hey, let's talk aboutthe different ways to subtract.
Let's talk about long division.
Let's talk about, greatestcommon factor.
Half the reason is for mystudents, so they can watch it
(18:16):
if they were absent, or if theyneed to prepare for the test, or
if they need to re watch itagain.
Vanessa Vakharia (18:21):
I love this.
I love this so much.
You know what?
Honestly, my master's thesis wascalled Imagining a World Where
Paris Hilton Loves Math, and itwas all about how math has a
marketing problem.
It was all about that.
It was like, what the fuck arewe doing?
Like, look at the media aroundmath.
Everyone who does math lookslike a loser.
When we advertise math tostudents, it looks so lame.
Like it has such a brandingproblem.
And I love that you're out thereon the platforms where the kids
(18:43):
are.
Because I find with school,we're like, well, kids have to
come to school so we can dowhatever we want.
We can make it as shitty we wantand they have to come anyways.
And it's like, yeah, but they'renot going to like it.
And I like that you're like, no,I'm going to go where my
audience that I want to reachis.
I'm not going to expect them tocome to me.
I'm actually going to servethem.
Like I just think it's reallybeautiful and really cool and
really noble.
(19:03):
And this is a, if you can't beatthem, join them.
Like for everyone out there,who's like, Oh, social media,
like kids, it's like, well,guess what?
They're on TikTok, so do youwant to talk to them?
It's right there.
Wow, that just tired me out.
Okay, we're down to the finaltwo questions that I ask
everyone.
You have 30 seconds to answer,it's not a hard 30, like, take
long as you want.
Okay, What is the one thingyou'd like to see change about
(19:25):
the way math is taught inschools?
Howie Hua (19:28):
I know it can't be, like, a standard, but I wish
that there were more, like,built in surprises and
curiosities, um, in math.
I really wish that the BirthdayParadox, like all of the
different paradoxes are talkedabout.
Um, just things that like blowyour mind, that you're like,
what?
Just to make students interestedin math.
Vanessa Vakharia (19:50):
love that.
Surprises.
That's so fun.
I'm just picturing someonejumping out of a cake every day.
Howie Hua (19:56):
Yeah like, there's so many cool math problems that are
online.
I wish that, I don't want to saylike, that it's mandatory for
them to show it, but it's like,hey, let's take a look at this,
to see, like, why does thiswork, what's happening, what's
wrong here, why does thisconclude to one equals two,
what's wrong?
Um, so, I wish there were moreof, like, those types of
problems, And, like, you canforce it, a lot of those one
(20:20):
equals two things is that youcan't divide by zero, but I wish
that it was more, like, explicitthat, those types of questions
are in the classroom.
Vanessa Vakharia (20:29):
More clickbait in math class, is what I'm
hearing.
Howie Hua (20:31):
Yeah.
Vanessa Vakharia (20:33):
Fuck yeah.
Okay.
And finally, what would you sayto someone who's like, Howie,
cool, great stuff, but I'm justnot a math person.
Howie Hua (20:41):
Well, if you're a person and you do math then
you're a math person, that'swhat I believe.
I would start by saying like,well, how would you do some
problem like 17 plus 18, right?
And whatever their way is,that's their own and how they
think about it is their own andeveryone has their own way of
doing things.
And that's the beautiful thingabout math.
Math is so creative that, don'tthink that, oh, I'm not a math
(21:04):
person because the long divisionalgorithm isn't natural to me.
Or whatever, something else ismore natural.
It's like, well, sure, like it'san algorithm.
It works all the time, but likemaybe your way is more efficient
in other scenarios.
Everyone thinks about mathdifferently, and, because
everyone thinks about mathdifferently, we are all math
people.
Vanessa Vakharia (21:24):
I love that.
I love that.
Howie Hua (21:26):
So, don't like, fill in like, this is what I think a
math person is and I don't fitthat characteristic.
Um, nope.
Vanessa Vakharia (21:33):
Is there anything you wanted to talk
about that I didn't bring up?
Howie Hua (21:36):
Hmm, I think we are all good.
Um, What is your favoritenumber?
Vanessa Vakharia (21:43):
Oh my God, that's right.
What's, no, the question wassupposed to be what, you were
supposed to ask me, what is yourfavorite number and why is it?
No.
Howie Hua (21:52):
No, what is your least favourite number?
Vanessa Vakharia (21:53):
Okay.
You ask whatever question youwant.
Howie Hua (21:56):
Yeah, because last time I said, what is your least
favorite number and why is itseven?
Vanessa Vakharia (21:59):
Why did you say that?
Why is it seven?
Howie Hua (22:01):
I was going to tweet about it saying like, what is
everyone's least favorite numberfrom one to ten and why is it
seven?
Um, and then you said that sevenis one of your favorite numbers.
Vanessa Vakharia (22:10):
It's my favorite number.
But why is it your leastfavorite
Howie Hua (22:14):
No, because I just, you can't divide by seven
mentally really well.
Like, you can't tell if a numberis divisible by seven readily,
versus, like, all of the othersingle digit divisibility rules
are so easy.
Seven's just way too hard to domentally,
Vanessa Vakharia (22:28):
Okay I've never thought about it this way.
You're looking at like thefunctionality of the number.
Howie Hua (22:34):
Yeah
Vanessa Vakharia (22:34):
I'm looking at like the aesthetic of the
number.
Like, seven is like a fuckingwild ride.
Oh my god, this reminds me thatI'm going to guess your sign.
Because I was about to be like,I feel seven is a very Gemini
number.
Don't make a facial expression.
You're already doing it! Whatsign are you?
What sign are you?
Okay, just don't tell me.
You hate seven.
(22:55):
I love seven.
I don't feel like you're aGemini, but now I'm like, are
you a Gemini?
Don't say anything.
Are you an air sign?
Are you a water sign?
You're not an earth sign.
You're not a fire sign, in myopinion.
I think you're an air sign.
I think you're a Gemini.
(23:15):
Are you a Gemini?
Howie Hua (23:17):
Do you want me to answer?
Vanessa Vakharia (23:18):
Yes
Howie Hua (23:19):
No, I'm not a Gemini.
Vanessa Vakharia (23:20):
Yeah.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Are you an Aquarius?
No.
Are you a Libra?
Howie Hua (23:25):
I'm not a Libra.
Vanessa Vakharia (23:26):
What the fuck, Howie?
What are you?
Howie Hua (23:29):
I'm a Leo.
Vanessa Vakharia (23:31):
I don't know what to say.
I did not see this coming,literally at all.
Fine.
I mean, I think Gemini, I thinka 7 is a very Gemini number, and
I feel like, what do you like,an 8?
Howie Hua (23:42):
What number do I like?
Vanessa Vakharia (23:43):
Yeah
Howie Hua (23:44):
Um, 8?
8's nice.
Vanessa Vakharia (23:47):
That's a Leo number.
Howie Hua (23:48):
Out of any number, I think 16 or 24.
I really like even numbers.
Vanessa Vakharia (23:53):
So 8, so, but multiples of 8?
Howie Hua (23:55):
Yeah.
I would say that.
I'm an August birthday, so 8 isnice.
Vanessa Vakharia (23:59):
Well, that's what I'm saying, and the Leo
card, the Leo tarot card is an8.
Howie Hua (24:04):
Oh, okay.
Yeah, like, I'm the type ofperson that I need my volume on
an even number, or else I thinksomething bad's gonna happen.
Like, it's that bad, where I'mlike, I need it on an even
number.
Vanessa Vakharia (24:17):
Really?
Howie Hua (24:18):
Even ending in 5, I cannot do, I need it to be an
even number, or else I thinksomething bad's gonna happen.
Vanessa Vakharia (24:24):
Wait, but really?
Will you actually change it?
Howie Hua (24:27):
I will change it.
Even if it's, like, way tooloud, I will change it.
I'm like, I'm sacrificing it.
I'm sacrificing the loudness foran even number.
Vanessa Vakharia (24:38):
Uh, that's amazing.
Okay, Howie, tell us, telleveryone where to find you.
Howie Hua (24:43):
Uh, you can find me at, Twitter or X, TikTok, uh,
you can go on my website,HowieHua.Com.
H O W I E H U A.com.
Yeah, you can just find methere.
I have a Facebook page,Instagram page.
If you just look me up, HowieHua, that would be fine.
Vanessa Vakharia (24:59):
You're amazing.
You're so cool.
Thank you so much.
We're gonna say bye, but don'thang up.
I'm really bad at saying bye,but let's try it anyway.
Howie, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast.
You are amazing.
Everyone, go follow Howie onTikTok.
He's so cool.
And I'll hopefully see you inperson soon.
Howie Hua (25:13):
Yeah, of course.
Thank you so much for having me.
Vanessa Vakharia (25:15):
Bye.
Okay, what a vibe! Wow! It justmakes me so happy to know that
there are people out there whomight think they hate math, and
then they like discover Howie'schannel or like similar math
channels that flip their viewabout what math could be.
I really believe that this is acrucial part of how math needs
to change in the public eye.
(25:36):
And the work we're doing in theclassroom, it needs to be
supported by changing views ofmath outside our classroom
walls.
If you're not following Howie,go follow him now to be reminded
that math can be many things,including a good time.
If something in this episodeinspired you, please tweet us
@maththerapy, and you can alsofollow me personally@themathguru
(25:57):
on Instagram, Twitter, andTikTok.
Math Therapy is hosted by me,Vanessa Vakharia, it was created
by me and Sabina Wex, and it'sproduced and edited by David
Kochberg.
Our theme music is by GoodnightSunrise.
And guys, if you know someonewho needs math therapy or just
needs to hear someone elsegetting math therapy, please,
please, please share thispodcast, and rate or review it
(26:19):
on whatever podcast app you use.
Those things actually make sucha big difference for us.
I'm determined to change theculture surrounding math and I
need your help, so spread theword.
Until next time, peace, love,and pi.
What is your favorite number andwhy is it 7?
The answer will shock you! Do Isound like a wrestler?
David Kochberg (26:43):
Wrestler?
What are you talking about?
Vanessa Vakharia (26:46):
Keep that part in.
David Kochberg (26:48):
In what?
Now you're producing?
"Yeah, put it in the trailer, inthe outtakes trailer."
When I was an undergrad, I thought of my
professors as like mini bossbattles, it's like, I need to
defeat this boss to get mydegree.
now that I'm on the other side,I'm like, no, the teacher and
the student are on the sameside.
I think math can be marketedbetter.
Maybe they don't want to watchlike a 20 minute YouTube video,
if they just want a one minuteexplainer, I can do it.
(00:22):
I joined TikTok kids are thereanyways, might as well just have
them learn while they're onthere.
Vanessa Vakharia (00:28):
Hi, I'm Vanessa Vakharia, aka The Math
Guru, and you're listening toMath Therapy, a podcast that
explores the root causes of mathtrauma, and the empowering ways
we can heal from it.
Whether you think you're a mathperson or not, you're about to
find out that math people don'tactually exist.
But the scars that math classleft on many of us definitely
do.
Oh, and don't worry, nocalculators or actual math were
(00:51):
involved in the making of thispodcast.
Who is ready to meet a real lifemath TikTok celeb?
You are, I am, we all are, andit is happening.
Today, you're going to meetHowie Hua, math teacher
extraordinaire and viral mathcelebrity, who is legit making
math cool on the internet.
If you know me, you know justhow obsessed I am with improving
(01:13):
math's horrible reputation inmass media and Howie is doing
just that by making it fun andaccessible to absolutely
everyone.
Today you're going to find outhow he's doing that, why it's
such an important factor inhelping our students build
better relationships with math,and the most TMZ level gotcha
question ever posed on thispodcast: what is your favorite
number and why is it 7?
(01:34):
The answer will shock you!Howie, welcome to the podcast.
Howie Hua (01:41):
Hi Vanessa, thank you so much for having me.
Vanessa Vakharia (01:44):
I'm so excited you're here.
Just for the listeners to knowHowie's hair looks amazing.
Basically the Justin Bieber ofmath right now.
Very jealous.
Howie Hua (01:53):
Aw,
Vanessa Vakharia (01:53):
Okay.
So I have to say, you were thefirst TikTok celebrity I've had
on the podcast since, I've onlyhad one other one and it was
Kyne.
Do you know who that is?
Howie Hua (02:03):
She's amazing, yeah.
Vanessa Vakharia (02:04):
And I feel like I had her like before she
broke because now she's sofamous.
But what I was going to ask is,so like Kyne obviously does, she
has a whole thing of doing mathand drag.
It's so incredible.
I love it.
I'm so glad it's taken off.
But you've also taken off fordoing math on TikTok.
And I wondered if you couldexplain to us like what your
thing is, like what do you do?
Howie Hua (02:24):
What my thing is, um, I just really like explaining
the whys, because I think peoplejust deserve to understand
what's happening, and there's alot of K 12 math that I didn't
really understand when I was astudent.
Um, it wasn't until I was ateacher after my master's in
math, that I'm like, Oh, that'swhat's happening.
so I just wanted to share all ofthat.
(02:45):
I'm super low tech.
I just use a whiteboard.
so yeah,
Vanessa Vakharia (02:48):
Well, I think that's actually one of the
coolest things about you becauseI'm really big on making math
accessible, right?
To like everyone.
And TikTok, I feel like socialmedia gets such shade because
people don't take the platformseriously.
But you're like, my goal is toreach people that wouldn't
traditionally be trying to learnmath, right?
Like, otherwise they would be inschool or they'd be like at
teacher's college or whatever.
(03:09):
So you're reaching all of thesepeople who happen to be on this
platform, many of whom probablyhave never been interested in
math before.
Howie Hua (03:17):
Yeah, that's half of the reason why I made a TikTok.
One half was that I'm a verysentimental person.
I hate things ending.
So, uh, half the reason why Imade a TikTok was because I
wanted to still teach my paststudents who are future
teachers, or currently teachers.
And, you know, I do teach math,so there's a lot of math that I
(03:37):
cannot teach in class becauseit's not, like, part of the
curriculum or the standards.
So I'm like, hey, like, if youstill wanna, I have a
newsletter, I send them anewsletter if they want to still
hear from me.
They can sign up using theiremail address and I said, if you
still want to learn math fromme, I just made a TikTok.
So follow me there.
And the other half was that Ithink math can be marketed
(03:58):
better.
So maybe they don't want towatch like a 20 minute YouTube
video on something, it's like,if they just want a one minute
explainer, I can do it.
I joined when TikTok had a oneminute cap, um, so it's, like,
try to explain it as quickly aspossible and as succinct as
possible.
So yeah, that was half thereason why I made a TikTok in
the first place, because kidsare there anyways, teenagers are
(04:19):
there, adults are there, so it'slike, might as well just have
them learn while they're onthere,
Vanessa Vakharia (04:24):
What do you think, like, it's interesting
what you just said about beinglike, try to explain it as fast
as I can in a minute.
I think there are so manybenefits to that, just because,
like, first of all, I certainlyhave zero attention span, and I
know that most kids don'teither, but I actually get a lot
of shade myself whenever I, postsomething, like, okay, sorry,
I've ranted to every podcastguest about this.
And you're going to be, you'regoing to, this is going to be
(04:44):
our supercut is me ranting aboutthis.
I've been getting all this shadefor talking about the times
tables and not like fullyexplaining.
So for example, like I did thisminute long video about like how
cool the nine times tables areand all the tricks you can do.
And all of these people arelike, you need to explain the
why and this and that.
And I'm sort of like, Okay, butthe whole point is I have one
minute and I'm trying to engagean audience that otherwise
(05:06):
wouldn't be engaged, and topique their curiosity.
Do you feel that's irresponsibleof me?
Do you feel there is a benefitand a curse to only having a
minute?
Like, what are your thoughts?
Howie Hua (05:16):
You could always have a second part.
It's like now that I piqued yourcuriosity, here's why it works.
So you could do a second part.
But like every video has itspurpose and like no one can
expect a video to be likecomplete, you know.
It's like, there's going to besomething, that you missed or
that someone misses or whatever.
So it's, we just need to allaccept that like not everything
can fit in a single video.
(05:38):
There's always going to bedifferent cases to consider and
all of that.
So
Vanessa Vakharia (05:43):
Do you, what kind of reaction do you get from
your videos and who is youraudience?
Like, do you find that peoplelike, are like, Oh my God, I
never liked math and then Ifound your account?
Howie Hua (05:50):
Yeah, there's like half that and half like, I'd
rather do the long divisionalgorithm.
It's like, okay, but do youunderstand what's happening?
Like, um, do you know what carrythe one means?
Do you know what bring down thetwo means?
So there's that, but everyonehas different values.
So I don't take any of that tooseriously.
Some people are like, I justwant to get the answer and
(06:11):
that's great.
Some people are more like, Iwant to understand what's
happening.
That's great.
But I just need to remember thateveryone has different values
and you really can't pleaseeveryone.
Vanessa Vakharia (06:20):
Well, that's wise words.
I mean, I need to hear thisbecause, what do I say to the
trolls?
Like, do you have haters?
Howie Hua (06:25):
I don't even reply to them just because it's like,
they want that.
Yeah, I mean, like, there's alot of accounts that just don't
have their like, actual name,their picture.
So if you're hiding behind ananonymous name, you're going to
talk whatever you want, with noconsequences, they're going to
feel like that.
So I don't really take any ofthat to heart.
Vanessa Vakharia (06:43):
Wow, you're a better person than me, Howie.
Thank you so much.
Um, I, So I've heard a lot oftalk lately about humanizing
mathematics.
People love to say the termhumanizing mathematics.
And I often wonder, like, when aterm gets so big that we just
use it without contextualizingit for people, what it actually
means.
And I actually wondered when Iwas thinking about you, I was
like, does humanizingmathematics have to do with
(07:06):
making math accessible to morepeople?
Like, what do you think?
Are those two things, like, iswhat you're doing humanizing
mathematics?
Howie Hua (07:15):
So when I think of humanizing mathematics, I think
that, when I was in K 12 andeven in my bachelor's program in
math, I just wished that I was arobot.
I wished that I could just likememorize all of these things.
Even like when I finished mybachelor's degree, or actually
during my bachelor's degree, Ithought that to be good at math,
all I needed to do was memorizeformulas, theorems, definitions,
(07:36):
and just that's it.
Like that's what it means to begood at math.
Um, so rather than wishing thatyou're a robot that, we just
think about how math iscreative, how math is
accessible, that we think ofmath in so many different and
correct ways, and just honorthat and go from there.
Vanessa Vakharia (07:54):
Hmm.
Howie Hua (07:54):
To see that there's so many different ways of
approaching a problem, it's notjust about memorizing, and all
of that.
And just make math class a wayof we're just like listening to
each other, building off ofpeople's ideas rather than like,
just follow this algorithm andthen you're good.
Vanessa Vakharia (08:11):
Do you think that like in doing that, because
in a way you're doing that too,right?
You're kind of like here, I'mdoing this on a different
platform, I'm sharing adifferent perspective with a
different audience, likeallowing different people to
access it, which to me is likethe epitome of humanizing
mathematics, right?
Allowing everyone to feel liketheir humanness is respected and
belongs in the math class.
How closely do you think ourlack of doing that leads to math
(08:36):
trauma or, like, math anxietyfor kids?
Like, how related are those twoto you?
Howie Hua (08:40):
Yeah, I teach math to future elementary school
teachers, and a lot of them, Iask them like, raise your hand
if you've ever done it adifferent way than your teacher,
and you got it correct, but theymarked you wrong because you
didn't do it their way.
And almost every single timeeveryone raises their hand.
Um, math should be accessibleand math should be,
understandable to them.
(09:01):
It's like, well, it made senseto me.
I did a long division algorithmvideo maybe two weeks ago and so
many students, or not longdivision partial quotients, like
what's with this new way ofdividing even though it's not
new.
Vanessa Vakharia (09:13):
Wait, what is that?
What is the, what, tell me whatit is.
Howie Hua (09:16):
Yeah, so like partial quotient.
So say that we're doing, 136divided by four.
Partial quotients would be,okay, how many 4s are in 136?
Someone can say, well I know 254s is 100, I have 36 left, I
know 9 4s is 36, so we justcombine what we have, so 25
Vanessa Vakharia (09:37):
Wait, what?
I've never done that! Is it 25plus 9?
Howie Hua (09:41):
Yeah.
So
Vanessa Vakharia (09:41):
Wait, I love, see, this is what's so cool, is
like my mind would never workthat way.
Like I get what you did.
I would never think to do thatin my life.
Like why would I choose ahundred and why would I choose,
like, I have so many questionsalso for everyone listening, if
you're like fucking stressed outright now, it's so hard to do
this kind of thing withoutpaper.
So like, just keep in mind thatlike, this is hard for even me.
(10:02):
Like I'm like looking into mybrain for these numbers.
And I also, I never do math withguests on the podcast.
This is the second time I'vedone it ever, because it's
actually, I get serious mathanxiety.
Like I start being like, Oh myGod, what if I can't calculate
this?
But also who fucking gives afuck the whole point is that
we're learning.
That's the whole point is like,we don't know everything.
Okay, so I totally took awayfrom your initial point, which
(10:23):
was that you were doing a videoon partial quotients.
Howie Hua (10:26):
Yeah.
And so many people would saylike, that is how I would
naturally do it, but, theteacher would mark me wrong I
didn't do it with long division.
Vanessa Vakharia (10:34):
i see.
Okay.
So here's the thing.
You know, we're on a podcastabout math trauma and about math
anxiety, and you were talkingabout what like prompted you to
do this is even though you havea degree in math, and in
teaching, you were kind of like,I don't even understand the math
behind what I'm teaching, like,I was never taught it.
Have you, Have you ever feltanxious around math?
Like do you have you ever hadanxiety around math yourself?
Howie Hua (10:55):
Yeah, uh, there was, one class in college that made
me cry.
Um, on the first test, I got a48%.
and I was literally, when I sawthat, I was in my bedroom, just
like laying on the floor crying.
Cause it's like, how am I goingto recover from a 48 percent, on
my first test?
Vanessa Vakharia (11:14):
Well, how did you do it?
Howie Hua (11:16):
Well, I ended up with a C with a 66 or 69 percent.
So, yeah, I'm very grateful.
Only six of us passed out oflike 24 students.
It was a really hard class.
Um, so,
Vanessa Vakharia (11:29):
I have some questions this.
The first is, was that the firsttime you experienced any sort of
like nervousness around math?
Howie Hua (11:36):
Yeah, and it just, and it, it just like, okay,
like, screw all of thecreativity and all of that, I
just want to memorize things.
Cause like, when you're in a,when you're in a situation like
that where your grade is on theline, it's like, I'm just going
to do my best to memorize.
I'm not going to care aboutanything else.
I just want to memorize this andthat's it.
There's no joy.
It was just like, just memorizeas can.
Vanessa Vakharia (11:58):
Okay, but you've hit on something really
important.
Because it's, you know, I talkabout math trauma a lot, and
when we think about math trauma,we always think it's like some
huge thing, like someone yellingat you or being bullied.
But we all have these littletiny like wounds around math.
And I don't know if, would youever, would you consider
yourself as someone havingexperienced math trauma or no?
Howie Hua (12:17):
Uh I mean, does it count that when I look at an
exit number, whenever I see thatmath course number, I get, like,
I get really, not scared, but Iget, I just remember that math
class.
Yeah.
Then, yeah.
Vanessa Vakharia (12:31):
Because that's, and it's not again, I'm
not trying to be like, Howie,you, come on my podcast so I can
tell you your traumas.
I'm just like, I actually thinkit's really important for us to
relate to our students this wayand being like, we've all had at
least one experience with maththat has made us feel like very
uncomfortable.
And I've never actually heardanyone talk about what you're
(12:51):
talking about, which is that,and I don't want to phrase this
wrong, so tell me if I'mincorrect, but it's like, you're
going along your life, math isjoyful, math is good, and some
experience in math made you feellike the joy was much less
important than getting thegrade.
Howie Hua (13:07):
Yeah.
Yeah, because, like, I don'twant an F on my transcript you
know?
don't, I want like, I want tograduate with honors.
Like, I don't want to retakethis class.
Vanessa Vakharia (13:16):
That's deep to me because it's like in that
moment you had to sacrifice thejoy you felt your whole life and
be like, what strategies can Iuse to just get the mark?
And I would wager that ourstudents feel like that all the
time.
Howie Hua (13:28):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Vanessa Vakharia (13:31):
So how, how is it fair of us to be like, Don't
worry about the mark, like joy,creativity, la, like, what if
someone had said that to you?
Howie Hua (13:40):
Yeah.
I mean, like, right now, I dotips of the day.
I start every day with a tip ofthe day.
And it's really funny that we'retalking about this because the
next tip of the day that I'mgiving to my Thursday class is
"focus on the learning, thegrade will earn itself".
Um.
And before that, one of myprevious tips is that"The
teacher and the student are onthe same side".
(14:01):
So just like building thatrelationship, it's like, hey,
we're all on the same side.
Because when I was an undergrad,I thought of my professors as
like mini boss battles, like inthe way of getting my degree.
It's like, I need to defeat thisboss to like get, get my degree.
But now that I'm on the otherside, I'm like, no, like
teachers want to help students.
(14:21):
Um, So, I'm very big on beingexplicit with my students.
It's like, hey, remember, we'reall on the same side, so ask as
many questions as you want, cometo office hours.
If you're too afraid to askquestions in front of everyone,
just ask me after class, beforeclass, through email.
But yeah, just being reallyexplicit that we're all on the
same side, and if you just focuson learning, I promise you the
(14:44):
grade will earn itself.
Vanessa Vakharia (14:45):
Do you?
Do you really believe that?
Howie Hua (14:47):
Yeah, yeah because grade, the grade reflects the
learning.
Vanessa Vakharia (14:51):
Because the grade reflects the learning.
I really like that because Ialso think this is a really
important thing for parents andstakeholders to know when
they're like, Oh my God, why areyou wasting all this time with
our kids and teaching them aboutlike the emotional component of
math and all this learning?
And you're like, no.
Like I always say this too,where I'm like, the goal of math
therapy isn't for a kid to get a90.
(15:13):
But if you're helping a childbuild a better relationship with
math, the grades will come.
I mean, like, I'm not sayingthey'll get a 90, but like,
they're going to end up doingbetter because they have all
these math adjacent skills thatwill help them do better.
They'll be more confident.
They'll be more resilient.
They'll be more enthusiastic.
You know what I mean?
Like all those things.
So I think that's actually areally like profound, a really
powerful quote.
I'm saying powerful because I'vesaid powerful in every
(15:34):
interview.
Um, I actually watched a videoyou just posted about how you
don't like to use the word"you".
Howie Hua (15:41):
Oh, yeah.
Vanessa Vakharia (15:42):
I want to hear about that.
That was juicy.
Howie Hua (15:44):
Oh, yeah.
So my freshman year of college,I took a communications class
and something that stuck out tome was she said you is one of
the most powerful words.
Like you did this wrong, youdidn't get this correct, and
that like stuck with me and thatwas like 14 years ago.
I still remember that.
(16:05):
So I'm like, yeah, you is apowerful word.
So I try to avoid it wheneverit's anything negative, like
pointing out their work andsaying, like, you got this
wrong, you use the wrongformula.
We could just like talk aboutthe work without connecting it
to the student.
It's like, Oh, this formulawould be used for perimeter
rather than area.
Vanessa Vakharia (16:23):
Oh my god.
Howie Hua (16:25):
Rather than saying like, you got this wrong, you
know, so
Vanessa Vakharia (16:28):
I love that because I mean, I talk a lot
about how powerful language isand like, it's funny because
I've never even thought aboutthis particular word.
You know, I think about wordslike, oh, it's really tricky to
use the word hard or easy, likethere's so many to, but"you",
who would think, yeah, like thatidea of like.
Would you say you should usethe, or like maybe it's an okay
idea to use the word you whenyou're saying something
(16:49):
positive?
Howie Hua (16:50):
Exactly.
Because it's so powerful, Iwould use it for positive.
It's like"you did an amazingjob".
I can tell you put a lot ofeffort into this.
So just know that the word youis so powerful that I would
personally not use it foranything negative But I would
absolutely use it for positive.
Cause like written language canbe interpreted in so many
different ways.
(17:11):
So like, even though I try to bekind, the word you can just like
totally make it so personal.
It's like, you forgot to dothis.
Like they could take it so hard.
And like, I don't blame thembecause, it's just written.
They can interpret it howeverthey want.
So, I just avoid it.
Vanessa Vakharia (17:28):
Honestly, that's such a great tip and it's
so easy do, right?
Like I love things that you'relike, this is so easy.
This is just a really quick fix.
Okay.
Oh my God.
This is incredible.
You're an incredible humanbeing.
Do your, do your students thinkyou're so cool because you're on
TikTok?
Like, does it make you like, dothey listen more?
Howie Hua (17:43):
This, this semester was the first semester, that
students actually registered formy class because they knew me
from TikTok.
no one else before this knew,but
Vanessa Vakharia (17:53):
That's cool!
Howie Hua (17:54):
yeah I tell them, it's like half the reason why I
make this, why I have an accountis for you.
so, you'll notice that I do alot of like repeated videos.
Like I'll just like remake them.
And it's more for my students.
It's like, hey, let's talk aboutthe different ways to subtract.
Let's talk about long division.
Let's talk about, greatestcommon factor.
Half the reason is for mystudents, so they can watch it
(18:16):
if they were absent, or if theyneed to prepare for the test, or
if they need to re watch itagain.
Vanessa Vakharia (18:21):
I love this.
I love this so much.
You know what?
Honestly, my master's thesis wascalled Imagining a World Where
Paris Hilton Loves Math, and itwas all about how math has a
marketing problem.
It was all about that.
It was like, what the fuck arewe doing?
Like, look at the media aroundmath.
Everyone who does math lookslike a loser.
When we advertise math tostudents, it looks so lame.
Like it has such a brandingproblem.
And I love that you're out thereon the platforms where the kids
(18:43):
are.
Because I find with school,we're like, well, kids have to
come to school so we can dowhatever we want.
We can make it as shitty we wantand they have to come anyways.
And it's like, yeah, but they'renot going to like it.
And I like that you're like, no,I'm going to go where my
audience that I want to reachis.
I'm not going to expect them tocome to me.
I'm actually going to servethem.
Like I just think it's reallybeautiful and really cool and
really noble.
(19:03):
And this is a, if you can't beatthem, join them.
Like for everyone out there,who's like, Oh, social media,
like kids, it's like, well,guess what?
They're on TikTok, so do youwant to talk to them?
It's right there.
Wow, that just tired me out.
Okay, we're down to the finaltwo questions that I ask
everyone.
You have 30 seconds to answer,it's not a hard 30, like, take
long as you want.
Okay, What is the one thingyou'd like to see change about
(19:25):
the way math is taught inschools?
Howie Hua (19:28):
I know it can't be, like, a standard, but I wish
that there were more, like,built in surprises and
curiosities, um, in math.
I really wish that the BirthdayParadox, like all of the
different paradoxes are talkedabout.
Um, just things that like blowyour mind, that you're like,
what?
Just to make students interestedin math.
Vanessa Vakharia (19:50):
love that.
Surprises.
That's so fun.
I'm just picturing someonejumping out of a cake every day.
Howie Hua (19:56):
Yeah like, there's so many cool math problems that are
online.
I wish that, I don't want to saylike, that it's mandatory for
them to show it, but it's like,hey, let's take a look at this,
to see, like, why does thiswork, what's happening, what's
wrong here, why does thisconclude to one equals two,
what's wrong?
Um, so, I wish there were moreof, like, those types of
problems, And, like, you canforce it, a lot of those one
(20:20):
equals two things is that youcan't divide by zero, but I wish
that it was more, like, explicitthat, those types of questions
are in the classroom.
Vanessa Vakharia (20:29):
More clickbait in math class, is what I'm
hearing.
Howie Hua (20:31):
Yeah.
Vanessa Vakharia (20:33):
Fuck yeah.
Okay.
And finally, what would you sayto someone who's like, Howie,
cool, great stuff, but I'm justnot a math person.
Howie Hua (20:41):
Well, if you're a person and you do math then
you're a math person, that'swhat I believe.
I would start by saying like,well, how would you do some
problem like 17 plus 18, right?
And whatever their way is,that's their own and how they
think about it is their own andeveryone has their own way of
doing things.
And that's the beautiful thingabout math.
Math is so creative that, don'tthink that, oh, I'm not a math
(21:04):
person because the long divisionalgorithm isn't natural to me.
Or whatever, something else ismore natural.
It's like, well, sure, like it'san algorithm.
It works all the time, but likemaybe your way is more efficient
in other scenarios.
Everyone thinks about mathdifferently, and, because
everyone thinks about mathdifferently, we are all math
people.
Vanessa Vakharia (21:24):
I love that.
I love that.
Howie Hua (21:26):
So, don't like, fill in like, this is what I think a
math person is and I don't fitthat characteristic.
Um, nope.
Vanessa Vakharia (21:33):
Is there anything you wanted to talk
about that I didn't bring up?
Howie Hua (21:36):
Hmm, I think we are all good.
Um, What is your favoritenumber?
Vanessa Vakharia (21:43):
Oh my God, that's right.
What's, no, the question wassupposed to be what, you were
supposed to ask me, what is yourfavorite number and why is it?
No.
Howie Hua (21:52):
No, what is your least favourite number?
Vanessa Vakharia (21:53):
Okay.
You ask whatever question youwant.
Howie Hua (21:56):
Yeah, because last time I said, what is your least
favorite number and why is itseven?
Vanessa Vakharia (21:59):
Why did you say that?
Why is it seven?
Howie Hua (22:01):
I was going to tweet about it saying like, what is
everyone's least favorite numberfrom one to ten and why is it
seven?
Um, and then you said that sevenis one of your favorite numbers.
Vanessa Vakharia (22:10):
It's my favorite number.
But why is it your leastfavorite
Howie Hua (22:14):
No, because I just, you can't divide by seven
mentally really well.
Like, you can't tell if a numberis divisible by seven readily,
versus, like, all of the othersingle digit divisibility rules
are so easy.
Seven's just way too hard to domentally,
Vanessa Vakharia (22:28):
Okay I've never thought about it this way.
You're looking at like thefunctionality of the number.
Howie Hua (22:34):
Yeah
Vanessa Vakharia (22:34):
I'm looking at like the aesthetic of the
number.
Like, seven is like a fuckingwild ride.
Oh my god, this reminds me thatI'm going to guess your sign.
Because I was about to be like,I feel seven is a very Gemini
number.
Don't make a facial expression.
You're already doing it! Whatsign are you?
What sign are you?
Okay, just don't tell me.
You hate seven.
(22:55):
I love seven.
I don't feel like you're aGemini, but now I'm like, are
you a Gemini?
Don't say anything.
Are you an air sign?
Are you a water sign?
You're not an earth sign.
You're not a fire sign, in myopinion.
I think you're an air sign.
I think you're a Gemini.
(23:15):
Are you a Gemini?
Howie Hua (23:17):
Do you want me to answer?
Vanessa Vakharia (23:18):
Yes
Howie Hua (23:19):
No, I'm not a Gemini.
Vanessa Vakharia (23:20):
Yeah.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Are you an Aquarius?
No.
Are you a Libra?
Howie Hua (23:25):
I'm not a Libra.
Vanessa Vakharia (23:26):
What the fuck, Howie?
What are you?
Howie Hua (23:29):
I'm a Leo.
Vanessa Vakharia (23:31):
I don't know what to say.
I did not see this coming,literally at all.
Fine.
I mean, I think Gemini, I thinka 7 is a very Gemini number, and
I feel like, what do you like,an 8?
Howie Hua (23:42):
What number do I like?
Vanessa Vakharia (23:43):
Yeah
Howie Hua (23:44):
Um, 8?
8's nice.
Vanessa Vakharia (23:47):
That's a Leo number.
Howie Hua (23:48):
Out of any number, I think 16 or 24.
I really like even numbers.
Vanessa Vakharia (23:53):
So 8, so, but multiples of 8?
Howie Hua (23:55):
Yeah.
I would say that.
I'm an August birthday, so 8 isnice.
Vanessa Vakharia (23:59):
Well, that's what I'm saying, and the Leo
card, the Leo tarot card is an8.
Howie Hua (24:04):
Oh, okay.
Yeah, like, I'm the type ofperson that I need my volume on
an even number, or else I thinksomething bad's gonna happen.
Like, it's that bad, where I'mlike, I need it on an even
number.
Vanessa Vakharia (24:17):
Really?
Howie Hua (24:18):
Even ending in 5, I cannot do, I need it to be an
even number, or else I thinksomething bad's gonna happen.
Vanessa Vakharia (24:24):
Wait, but really?
Will you actually change it?
Howie Hua (24:27):
I will change it.
Even if it's, like, way tooloud, I will change it.
I'm like, I'm sacrificing it.
I'm sacrificing the loudness foran even number.
Vanessa Vakharia (24:38):
Uh, that's amazing.
Okay, Howie, tell us, telleveryone where to find you.
Howie Hua (24:43):
Uh, you can find me at, Twitter or X, TikTok, uh,
you can go on my website,HowieHua.Com.
H O W I E H U A.com.
Yeah, you can just find methere.
I have a Facebook page,Instagram page.
If you just look me up, HowieHua, that would be fine.
Vanessa Vakharia (24:59):
You're amazing.
You're so cool.
Thank you so much.
We're gonna say bye, but don'thang up.
I'm really bad at saying bye,but let's try it anyway.
Howie, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast.
You are amazing.
Everyone, go follow Howie onTikTok.
He's so cool.
And I'll hopefully see you inperson soon.
Howie Hua (25:13):
Yeah, of course.
Thank you so much for having me.
Vanessa Vakharia (25:15):
Bye.
Okay, what a vibe! Wow! It justmakes me so happy to know that
there are people out there whomight think they hate math, and
then they like discover Howie'schannel or like similar math
channels that flip their viewabout what math could be.
I really believe that this is acrucial part of how math needs
to change in the public eye.
(25:36):
And the work we're doing in theclassroom, it needs to be
supported by changing views ofmath outside our classroom
walls.
If you're not following Howie,go follow him now to be reminded
that math can be many things,including a good time.
If something in this episodeinspired you, please tweet us
@maththerapy, and you can alsofollow me personally@themathguru
(25:57):
on Instagram, Twitter, andTikTok.
Math Therapy is hosted by me,Vanessa Vakharia, it was created
by me and Sabina Wex, and it'sproduced and edited by David
Kochberg.
Our theme music is by GoodnightSunrise.
And guys, if you know someonewho needs math therapy or just
needs to hear someone elsegetting math therapy, please,
please, please share thispodcast, and rate or review it
(26:19):
on whatever podcast app you use.
Those things actually make sucha big difference for us.
I'm determined to change theculture surrounding math and I
need your help, so spread theword.
Until next time, peace, love,and pi.
What is your favorite number andwhy is it 7?
The answer will shock you! Do Isound like a wrestler?
David Kochberg (26:43):
Wrestler?
What are you talking about?
Vanessa Vakharia (26:46):
Keep that part in.
David Kochberg (26:48):
In what?
Now you're producing?
"Yeah, put it in the trailer, inthe outtakes trailer."
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