July 14, 2025 • 13 mins
A Two-Word Trick That Fixes 80% of Bad Advertising
Nielsen estimates 60% of ads fail to make an impact. We’ve found it’s closer to 80%. Why? Most ads talk about the company—not the customer.
In this short but powerful episode, Brandon and Caleb reveal the “which means” trick—two words that instantly shift your message from features to benefits, from what you do to why it matters to your customer.
Inside this episode:
The two-word copywriting move that sells
Why clarity beats creativity
Simple tweaks that boost response instantly
If you’re spending money on ads, copy, or content—this two-word trick could save you thousands and make you millions.
Free Marketing Audit: MavenMarketingAudit.com
Maven Method Training: MavenMethodTraining.com
Get a copy of our Best-Selling Book, The Maven Marketer, here:
https://a.co/d/1clpm8a
Our Website: https://frankandmaven.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/frankandmavenmarketing/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@frankandmaven
Twitter: https://twitter.com/frankandmaven
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/frank-and-maven/
Host: Brandon Welch
Co-Host: Caleb Agee
Executive Producer: Carter Breaux
Audio/Video Producer: Nate the Camera Guy
Do you have a marketing problem you'd like us to help solve? Send it to MavenMonday@FrankandMaven.com!
Get a copy of our Best-Selling Book, The Maven Marketer Here:
https://a.co/d/1clpm8a
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm joined by Caleb.
Your thumbnail's getting alittle boring, AG.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Are you talking about , like, I need to get a manicure
, or no, it's our thumbnails,really Okay.
Yeah, see, we both needmanicures.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We are just talking in the studio here.
We're like you know what thesethumbnails?
Because we do these cheesypictures the one you just saw
when you clicked on the episode.
Yeah, and they're reallygetting old.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
And so we need some help.
It feels really uncomfortableto do every time.
It's like smile, make a face,something that has to do with
the episode.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yes, here's what we're going to do.
Anybody who we're going to do acontest?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Submit an idea for what our thumbnail should be,
maybe like a chat GPT, example,and the one that wins we're
going to give you a three-monthscholarship to the Maven
Marketing Mastermind.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Whoa.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Whoa.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Bring it on and a whole stack of books from like
our library here.
It's like a $750 value plusbooks, that's like $1, plus
books, that's like a thousandbucks plus the millions of
dollars you make from theknowledge you get.
I mean it's one million onethousand dollars.
I think we just gave away Ithink that's pretty much what we
just did hey, rules on that,though it has to be something we
can extend, not just an episode.
(01:19):
It needs to be like a style wecould use multiple times.
That's the struggle.
That's the struggle we ourapproval.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
That's the struggle we're having.
What's the new template?
So, maybe you find a Mr Beast,something we should be doing or
something like that.
But we need ideas.
We don't know how to make ourthumbnails MoBeta.
We need your help.
This is the place where weanswer your real life marketing
questions, so you can eliminatewaste in advertising, grow your
business and achieve the bigdream, even though we're asking
you to help eliminate ourmarketing.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's hard to do marketing and things for
yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, that's a lesson .
Speaker 2 (01:48):
That is a lesson.
We'll talk about that later.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
It's hard to read the label when you're inside the
bottle.
That's right.
Hey, today's episode is calleda two-word solution to a $600
billion problem.
Nielsen themselves, themeasurers of all advertising,
estimate worldwide that 60% ofads fail to drive meaningful
impact.
What we know to be true fromour own research is that 8 out
(02:10):
of 10 business owners acrossAmerica do not believe that
their advertising is working forthem, and so this is a big, big
, big problem.
Know to be true, andneuroscience confirms, along
with the wisdom of some of thegreats, the giants that we've
stood on their shoulders, italmost always has to do with the
(02:32):
quality of your message.
You know that because you're aMaven marketer and you are a
Maven marketing podcast listener.
But what do we do about that?
Very often this can be acomplex solution.
We think, oh, we have to bereally creative, we have to be
really prolific with our writing, and I'm going to suggest today
(02:55):
Caleb's going to suggest todaythat is a two-word trick that
you can use to eliminate most ofthis waste.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yep, clarity always beats creativity.
Yes, and with this, this willmake your ads infinitely more
clear, if you can do this withthem.
Yes, and that will sell waymore than being completely
creative or abstract.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, this will connect it, so we built that up
pretty quickly.
This is a heavy hitting episodetoday.
We're going to do it reallyquick, but it's going to make
you a lot of money if you employthis.
And the two word solution thatwe're talking about is the which
means trick.
I first heard this from RoyWilliams, but I've heard a bunch
(03:40):
of copywriters basically usethis over and over.
And what is the which meanstrick, caleb?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
It's where you take essentially any promise, benefit
, feature that you say in an ad.
You immediately follow it withwhich means, and you need to be
able to answer that for thecustomer.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, frank and Maven is a consulting firm that
happens to do marketing.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah.
Which means you get greatmarketing that's paired with
actual business results.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yes, the new granola bar has two grams of sugar,
which means you don't fill up ona bunch of needless sugar.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
You get only the good stuff without all the bad stuff
.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, you can have breakfast without getting
diabetes.
Yeah, we source our coffeebeans directly from local
farmers in Costa Rica.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, which means the money goes straight back to the
person who did all the hardwork to grow those beans.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah.
Or which means they are notravaged with pesticides and
poisons to preserve them foryears on the shelf, which means
you're going to get authenticorganic taste right.
Authentic organic taste right.
So we could do this forliterally every product, every
(05:08):
service and every industry.
We have 10 locations to serveyou, which means we're never
more than a five-minute driveaway, yes, and what we're trying
to do is show everything inyour ad, like ads, by design,
are supposed to be.
Talk about you, and RoyWilliams reminds us bad ads talk
(05:29):
about you and your company, butgood ads talk about the
customer and their life.
Leo Burnett, very famouscopywriter, reminds us don't
tell me how good you make it,tell me how good it makes me
when I use it.
Isn't that awesome?
That's a good one, that's agood one.
And then David Ogilvie remindsus the customer isn't a moron,
she's your wife.
(05:49):
So we're talking about gettinghuman, and this little which
means, this little two-wordbridge back to what's in it for
them is so common sense and weall appreciate it when it's done
for us, but very, very oftenand according to Nielsen, $600
billion at a time we forget todo this and it's really just
simple, like look at all of yourads.
(06:09):
I want you to go to yourwebsite.
I want you to look ateverything you're claiming on
your website and sometimesyou're literally going to say
which means.
You're just going to put thoselittle two tricks.
Or sometimes you're going tosay in your mind which means,
and then you're going to writethe which means thing and
sometimes you're going to say inyour mind which means?
And then you're going to writethe which means thing and then
you're going to delete thebenefit, or sorry, you're going
to delete the feature and you'regoing to just leave the, which
means benefit.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, so go back to that breakfast bar we just
talked about.
Yeah, the headline on thewebsite is not we only have two
grams of sugar.
It's breakfast without the riskof diabetes.
Yeah, or something like that.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Have the risk of diabetes or something like that
have breakfast without diabetesor energy to start your day that
lasts all day.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Energy without a crash.
You lead with what comes afterthe, which means a lot of times.
Sometimes, if you're teachingabout your product and maybe
somebody doesn't understand itas well, you will need to state
the benefit, or you'll need tostate maybe a certification or
something like that.
But that needs to be followedwith an explanation as to why I
(07:11):
would care, why I, the listeneror reader, would care at all.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
What does it mean to me?
Yeah, there's an optometryclient that is near and dear to
us and we've used this a lot oftimes because they have a lot of
vernacular and a lot of reallyfancy things, and I remember
some years back they wereexcited about this awesome new
piece of equipment they got that, like you know, shoots a laser
beam into your head and takesthis really crazy picture of
(07:37):
your eyeball.
Yeah, steve, you know, that'sexactly what I remember.
That's true, right, steve?
Yeah, but it's just a reallycomplex thing and it makes this
awesome picture of your eyeballand it's like, okay, well, they
charge some money for that andthat would get your attention.
So we were like what's in it forthe customer?
And I mean, when you're talkingto really high-level,
intelligent people like doctors,they're going to give you all
(08:04):
the technical stuff.
What we actually figured out ispossible with this machine is
that you can detect really badhealth problems long before
blood tests will, very oftenbefore even maybe even MRI or
something would catch up on it,and so they're predicting like
diabetes and they're predictinga lot of really serious health
(08:26):
problems with this thing.
So it's like detectlife-threatening illnesses
before they happen through youreyes, and I don't know exactly
what the copy of what we usedwas, but it was something along
those lines of are we sellingthe benefit you were running
advertising?
If you were spending moneymarketing your business?
You just need to go throughyour copy, your website, your
(08:55):
materials, your phone scripts,frankly, probably your own
dialogue about what you'resaying.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I was going to say sales has a big piece in this
because I find even when I'mtrying somebody's trying to sell
me on something.
I was talking to somebody todaywho literally was trying to
tell me about their service andI didn't get it.
I didn't.
I sort of understand, but Idon't really understand what it
actually, how it actuallybenefits me.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah.
And they weren't articulatingit because they weren't giving
me the, which means yeah, and,as Donald Miller would say, when
you confuse, you lose, yep, yep.
So.
So it's just yeah.
Often it's not that youwouldn't have bought, it's that.
Oh, I just, you just didn't saythe thing back to me.
Yeah, that I needed to hear.
So is that a simple episode?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I think that's.
That's as simple as it needs tobe.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I grabbed some other quotes.
Some of these were from theMaven marketer, the most
effective copy enters theconversation already going on in
the customer's mind.
That's right.
You can't create desire.
You can only capitalize on thedesire that's already there, and
that's what we're talking about, which means we'll get you back
there.
So, probably the shortestepisode in Maven marketing
(10:04):
podcast history may also be oneof the most impactful, if you
choose to use it.
Go to your stuff, ask, whichmeans Train your people.
Have a little sales rallyaround this idea.
Are we articulating how wechange the customer's life?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, look for features and benefits.
That's the thing you're lookingfor.
When you state we have this, wedo this, you need to
immediately follow it with howthat benefits the customer.
And when you do that, you'regoing to change everything about
it.
You may be able to take out thewe do this part and just stick
with the benefit for thecustomer.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Speaking of that, there is something really cool
that we're doing.
We have launched the MavenMarketing Mastermind, which
means you can get high levelcollaboration on your marketing
for a fraction of a fraction ofthe cost that you would pay
consultants or even our team todo it for you, which means you
(11:01):
can eliminate waste inadvertising.
Which means you can get to thebig idea quicker.
That's going to sell more,attract more of the customer you
want, which means that you'renot going to be alone making
really scary creative decisions.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, we had a call a session last week with the team
that's all the members in themastermind and people are
already growing.
We're just over a month we'rekind of coming around our second
month into this and we'rewatching sales happen, new
(11:34):
customers, new business.
It's insane to watch howquickly when you put this effort
, when you put this drive youjust get together and polish it
a little bit.
Also, it kind of holds youaccountable.
Having a crew around you, Ithink a lot of times for a small
business owner or a smallbusiness marketer, it's really
easy to kind of set your owntimelines for things or that can
(11:56):
be on the back burner.
But when you have a group ofpeople, you come and you say,
hey, I worked on this, I've beenworking on this.
Here's the result.
It helps you acknowledge like,oh, it's like, change these two
things and it's ready to go.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yes, and then you get the thing out in the world
because it's been validated.
Yeah, I can speak for my ownstuff.
There's times you work onsomething for months just
because you're not quite surethat it landed.
But when you've got people whoare smart people, there's a
bunch of really smart people inthis group telling you hey, it's
good to go, caleb, you go, okay.
(12:32):
So we want you to be in thatgroup too, because we know you
are smart and you have ideasthat need validated and worked
on and polished and you have abusiness to grow.
That's why we're doing this.
By the way, all of the thingswe do with the podcast and the
mastermind are just because weare, like bonkers, excited about
growing owner operatedcompanies, and we opened up the
mastermind so that we could havea little bit more workshop type
stuff other than us justflapping our jaws at you.
So if you want to join that, itis mavenmethodtrainingcom and
(12:58):
you can join.
It's a very, very small monthlyfee and you will get to join us
two times a month, submit yourquestions, work with other
members of the tribe and there'sall sorts of other benefits and
events and stuff we're going tobe doing in the future that you
, and only you, will be invitedto.
That's right, but only if Ifyou're a member.
If you're a member, that's right.
We'll be back here every Mondayanswering your real-life
(13:19):
marketing questions, becausemarketers who can't teach you
why are just a fancy lie.
Mavenmethodtrainingcom.
Hope to see you in theMastermind.
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm joined by Caleb.
Your thumbnail's getting alittle boring, AG.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Are you talking about , like, I need to get a manicure
, or no, it's our thumbnails,really Okay.
Yeah, see, we both needmanicures.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
We are just talking in the studio here.
We're like you know what thesethumbnails?
Because we do these cheesypictures the one you just saw
when you clicked on the episode.
Yeah, and they're reallygetting old.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
And so we need some help.
It feels really uncomfortableto do every time.
It's like smile, make a face,something that has to do with
the episode.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yes, here's what we're going to do.
Anybody who we're going to do acontest?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Submit an idea for what our thumbnail should be,
maybe like a chat GPT, example,and the one that wins we're
going to give you a three-monthscholarship to the Maven
Marketing Mastermind.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Whoa.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Whoa.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Bring it on and a whole stack of books from like
our library here.
It's like a $750 value plusbooks, that's like $1, plus
books, that's like a thousandbucks plus the millions of
dollars you make from theknowledge you get.
I mean it's one million onethousand dollars.
I think we just gave away Ithink that's pretty much what we
just did hey, rules on that,though it has to be something we
can extend, not just an episode.
(01:19):
It needs to be like a style wecould use multiple times.
That's the struggle.
That's the struggle we ourapproval.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
That's the struggle we're having.
What's the new template?
So, maybe you find a Mr Beast,something we should be doing or
something like that.
But we need ideas.
We don't know how to make ourthumbnails MoBeta.
We need your help.
This is the place where weanswer your real life marketing
questions, so you can eliminatewaste in advertising, grow your
business and achieve the bigdream, even though we're asking
you to help eliminate ourmarketing.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's hard to do marketing and things for
yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, that's a lesson .
Speaker 2 (01:48):
That is a lesson.
We'll talk about that later.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
It's hard to read the label when you're inside the
bottle.
That's right.
Hey, today's episode is calleda two-word solution to a $600
billion problem.
Nielsen themselves, themeasurers of all advertising,
estimate worldwide that 60% ofads fail to drive meaningful
impact.
What we know to be true fromour own research is that 8 out
(02:10):
of 10 business owners acrossAmerica do not believe that
their advertising is working forthem, and so this is a big, big
, big problem.
Know to be true, andneuroscience confirms, along
with the wisdom of some of thegreats, the giants that we've
stood on their shoulders, italmost always has to do with the
(02:32):
quality of your message.
You know that because you're aMaven marketer and you are a
Maven marketing podcast listener.
But what do we do about that?
Very often this can be acomplex solution.
We think, oh, we have to bereally creative, we have to be
really prolific with our writing, and I'm going to suggest today
(02:55):
Caleb's going to suggest todaythat is a two-word trick that
you can use to eliminate most ofthis waste.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yep, clarity always beats creativity.
Yes, and with this, this willmake your ads infinitely more
clear, if you can do this withthem.
Yes, and that will sell waymore than being completely
creative or abstract.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, this will connect it, so we built that up
pretty quickly.
This is a heavy hitting episodetoday.
We're going to do it reallyquick, but it's going to make
you a lot of money if you employthis.
And the two word solution thatwe're talking about is the which
means trick.
I first heard this from RoyWilliams, but I've heard a bunch
(03:40):
of copywriters basically usethis over and over.
And what is the which meanstrick, caleb?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
It's where you take essentially any promise, benefit
, feature that you say in an ad.
You immediately follow it withwhich means, and you need to be
able to answer that for thecustomer.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, frank and Maven is a consulting firm that
happens to do marketing.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah.
Which means you get greatmarketing that's paired with
actual business results.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yes, the new granola bar has two grams of sugar,
which means you don't fill up ona bunch of needless sugar.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
You get only the good stuff without all the bad stuff
.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, you can have breakfast without getting
diabetes.
Yeah, we source our coffeebeans directly from local
farmers in Costa Rica.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, which means the money goes straight back to the
person who did all the hardwork to grow those beans.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Yeah.
Or which means they are notravaged with pesticides and
poisons to preserve them foryears on the shelf, which means
you're going to get authenticorganic taste right.
Authentic organic taste right.
So we could do this forliterally every product, every
(05:08):
service and every industry.
We have 10 locations to serveyou, which means we're never
more than a five-minute driveaway, yes, and what we're trying
to do is show everything inyour ad, like ads, by design,
are supposed to be.
Talk about you, and RoyWilliams reminds us bad ads talk
(05:29):
about you and your company, butgood ads talk about the
customer and their life.
Leo Burnett, very famouscopywriter, reminds us don't
tell me how good you make it,tell me how good it makes me
when I use it.
Isn't that awesome?
That's a good one, that's agood one.
And then David Ogilvie remindsus the customer isn't a moron,
she's your wife.
(05:49):
So we're talking about gettinghuman, and this little which
means, this little two-wordbridge back to what's in it for
them is so common sense and weall appreciate it when it's done
for us, but very, very oftenand according to Nielsen, $600
billion at a time we forget todo this and it's really just
simple, like look at all of yourads.
(06:09):
I want you to go to yourwebsite.
I want you to look ateverything you're claiming on
your website and sometimesyou're literally going to say
which means.
You're just going to put thoselittle two tricks.
Or sometimes you're going tosay in your mind which means,
and then you're going to writethe which means thing and
sometimes you're going to say inyour mind which means?
And then you're going to writethe which means thing and then
you're going to delete thebenefit, or sorry, you're going
to delete the feature and you'regoing to just leave the, which
means benefit.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, so go back to that breakfast bar we just
talked about.
Yeah, the headline on thewebsite is not we only have two
grams of sugar.
It's breakfast without the riskof diabetes.
Yeah, or something like that.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Have the risk of diabetes or something like that
have breakfast without diabetesor energy to start your day that
lasts all day.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Energy without a crash.
You lead with what comes afterthe, which means a lot of times.
Sometimes, if you're teachingabout your product and maybe
somebody doesn't understand itas well, you will need to state
the benefit, or you'll need tostate maybe a certification or
something like that.
But that needs to be followedwith an explanation as to why I
(07:11):
would care, why I, the listeneror reader, would care at all.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
What does it mean to me?
Yeah, there's an optometryclient that is near and dear to
us and we've used this a lot oftimes because they have a lot of
vernacular and a lot of reallyfancy things, and I remember
some years back they wereexcited about this awesome new
piece of equipment they got that, like you know, shoots a laser
beam into your head and takesthis really crazy picture of
(07:37):
your eyeball.
Yeah, steve, you know, that'sexactly what I remember.
That's true, right, steve?
Yeah, but it's just a reallycomplex thing and it makes this
awesome picture of your eyeballand it's like, okay, well, they
charge some money for that andthat would get your attention.
So we were like what's in it forthe customer?
And I mean, when you're talkingto really high-level,
intelligent people like doctors,they're going to give you all
(08:04):
the technical stuff.
What we actually figured out ispossible with this machine is
that you can detect really badhealth problems long before
blood tests will, very oftenbefore even maybe even MRI or
something would catch up on it,and so they're predicting like
diabetes and they're predictinga lot of really serious health
(08:26):
problems with this thing.
So it's like detectlife-threatening illnesses
before they happen through youreyes, and I don't know exactly
what the copy of what we usedwas, but it was something along
those lines of are we sellingthe benefit you were running
advertising?
If you were spending moneymarketing your business?
You just need to go throughyour copy, your website, your
(08:55):
materials, your phone scripts,frankly, probably your own
dialogue about what you'resaying.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I was going to say sales has a big piece in this
because I find even when I'mtrying somebody's trying to sell
me on something.
I was talking to somebody todaywho literally was trying to
tell me about their service andI didn't get it.
I didn't.
I sort of understand, but Idon't really understand what it
actually, how it actuallybenefits me.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah.
And they weren't articulatingit because they weren't giving
me the, which means yeah, and,as Donald Miller would say, when
you confuse, you lose, yep, yep.
So.
So it's just yeah.
Often it's not that youwouldn't have bought, it's that.
Oh, I just, you just didn't saythe thing back to me.
Yeah, that I needed to hear.
So is that a simple episode?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I think that's.
That's as simple as it needs tobe.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I grabbed some other quotes.
Some of these were from theMaven marketer, the most
effective copy enters theconversation already going on in
the customer's mind.
That's right.
You can't create desire.
You can only capitalize on thedesire that's already there, and
that's what we're talking about, which means we'll get you back
there.
So, probably the shortestepisode in Maven marketing
(10:04):
podcast history may also be oneof the most impactful, if you
choose to use it.
Go to your stuff, ask, whichmeans Train your people.
Have a little sales rallyaround this idea.
Are we articulating how wechange the customer's life?
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, look for features and benefits.
That's the thing you're lookingfor.
When you state we have this, wedo this, you need to
immediately follow it with howthat benefits the customer.
And when you do that, you'regoing to change everything about
it.
You may be able to take out thewe do this part and just stick
with the benefit for thecustomer.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Speaking of that, there is something really cool
that we're doing.
We have launched the MavenMarketing Mastermind, which
means you can get high levelcollaboration on your marketing
for a fraction of a fraction ofthe cost that you would pay
consultants or even our team todo it for you, which means you
(11:01):
can eliminate waste inadvertising.
Which means you can get to thebig idea quicker.
That's going to sell more,attract more of the customer you
want, which means that you'renot going to be alone making
really scary creative decisions.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, we had a call a session last week with the team
that's all the members in themastermind and people are
already growing.
We're just over a month we'rekind of coming around our second
month into this and we'rewatching sales happen, new
(11:34):
customers, new business.
It's insane to watch howquickly when you put this effort
, when you put this drive youjust get together and polish it
a little bit.
Also, it kind of holds youaccountable.
Having a crew around you, Ithink a lot of times for a small
business owner or a smallbusiness marketer, it's really
easy to kind of set your owntimelines for things or that can
(11:56):
be on the back burner.
But when you have a group ofpeople, you come and you say,
hey, I worked on this, I've beenworking on this.
Here's the result.
It helps you acknowledge like,oh, it's like, change these two
things and it's ready to go.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yes, and then you get the thing out in the world
because it's been validated.
Yeah, I can speak for my ownstuff.
There's times you work onsomething for months just
because you're not quite surethat it landed.
But when you've got people whoare smart people, there's a
bunch of really smart people inthis group telling you hey, it's
good to go, caleb, you go, okay.
(12:32):
So we want you to be in thatgroup too, because we know you
are smart and you have ideasthat need validated and worked
on and polished and you have abusiness to grow.
That's why we're doing this.
By the way, all of the thingswe do with the podcast and the
mastermind are just because weare, like bonkers, excited about
growing owner operatedcompanies, and we opened up the
mastermind so that we could havea little bit more workshop type
stuff other than us justflapping our jaws at you.
So if you want to join that, itis mavenmethodtrainingcom and
(12:58):
you can join.
It's a very, very small monthlyfee and you will get to join us
two times a month, submit yourquestions, work with other
members of the tribe and there'sall sorts of other benefits and
events and stuff we're going tobe doing in the future that you
, and only you, will be invitedto.
That's right, but only if Ifyou're a member.
If you're a member, that's right.
We'll be back here every Mondayanswering your real-life
(13:19):
marketing questions, becausemarketers who can't teach you
why are just a fancy lie.
Mavenmethodtrainingcom.
Hope to see you in theMastermind.
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