September 29, 2025 • 17 mins
Are YouTube ads finally better than TV for building a local brand, or is broadcast still king when you need daily reach and real frequency? 🤔
Brandon sits down with Kyle to unpack what we’re seeing across millions in ad spend: CPMs, skip rates, watch time, and the one factor that keeps TV (often) ahead for “tomorrow marketing.”
We also cover when YouTube does win—and how to plug it into a media plan without wasting budget.
What you’ll learn:
- TV vs YouTube: real CPMs we’re seeing (and why cheap CPMs can still be expensive)
- The skip problem: average watch time on 15s and 30s—and what that means for brand lift
- Why predictable frequency beats random impressions for becoming a household name
- When to allocate ~10% to YouTube (and when not to)
- Why OTT/CTV CPMs look pretty but rarely pencil out for small/local brands
If you’re trying to pick the best top-of-funnel media for 0–$100M businesses, this episode will save you money (and a few headaches).
For entrepreneurs wanting to grow without wasting money, join the Maven Marketing Mastermind → https://www.mavenmethodtraining.com
Our Website: https://frankandmaven.com/
Instagram: /frankandmavenmarketing
TikTok: /frankandmaven
LinkedIn: /frank-and-maven
Host: Brandon Welch
Co-Host: Kyle DeVries
Executive Producer: Carter Breaux
Audio/Video Producer: Nate the Camera Guy
Do you have a marketing problem you'd like us to help solve? Send it to MavenMonday@FrankandMaven.com!
Get a copy of our Best-Selling Book, The Maven Marketer Here: https://a.co/d/1clpm8a
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandon (00:05):
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm joined by Kyle about
them, Chiefs, DeVries.
Kyle (00:14):
You know, I'm I'm not worried yet.
Not you're worried yet,Brandon.
They always they always figureit out.
Okay.
Brandon (00:19):
You have any grand predictions on a uh, you know,
on a on a win loss?
Kyle (00:25):
Um I bet they go like 10 and 7.
They play 17 games now.
10 and 7.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
They'll they'll they'll squeakin.
They'll squeeze in there.
19 and one last year, wasn'tit?
Or 18 and 10 years.
I think they've got someinjuries and stuff, but they'll
they'll figure it out andthey'll they'll squeak in there
and they'll they'll be just finethere.
Brandon (00:44):
The magic of Mahomes is still with us, right?
Yeah.
So uh hey, if you're listeningfor the first time, this is the
place where we help youeliminate waste in your
advertising so you can grow yourbusiness and achieve the big
dream.
That big dream for us is aboutthe impact you make on your
people inside the four walls ofyour business, the impact you
make on your community, themagic things that happen when a
small business grows.
(01:04):
That is what we're all about.
We're unreasonably excitedabout small business.
There are a lot of peopletalking about big marketing and
funnels and digital ads, and welove those people.
There are very different, butwe select businesses doing zero
to a hundred million dollars ayear because we believe that is
uh that is actually where morethan 50% of the population
(01:25):
works.
We believe that's where thebiggest impact can be made as
mission-focused leaders.
And so we are here to serveyou.
And if you are new to thepodcast, because this title is a
little bit uh clickbaity, um,we're glad you're here.
And that is what we're allabout.
So with that in mind, why arewe talking about TV and YouTube,
(01:46):
Kyle?
Kyle (01:48):
Well, traditionally, I think TV has always been the
leader in how many and how manypeople can we reach for the the
least amount of money.
Uh TV has traditionally alwaysbeen the power there, and but
YouTube has kind of forced us topay attention recently.
We can get really um good CPMsor how the cost of reaching a
(02:08):
thousand people.
Um the C the CPMs for YouTubehave been really competitive in
recent years.
And so I think we've we've beenforced to kind of take a look
at um, you know, should we beimplementing this in our
strategy for our clients?
Brandon (02:20):
Yeah.
Worth saying um our agencyspends millions of dollars on
all different forms of media.
We are not tied to or biased orpreferencing any style of
media.
We have geniuses in everycorner of media management.
Um my background wastraditional media.
Uh, I did a lot of digitalmedia as well.
Uh, we've obviously built anagency off being a full service
(02:43):
um servicer of all of thosetypes of advertising.
So our only goal is that ourclients and our people, our
listeners, um grow theirbusinesses faster.
Like that is literally the onlygoal.
We're saying what has workedbest for best for us.
And even having come from atraditional media world, I've
said for well over 15 years,like there will be a day when
(03:06):
digital media, when all this,these shiny objects, which by
the way, I used to make myliving selling.
I said there will be a day whenthose actually do beat some
sort of traditional option.
And it's only in the last yearwe've started saying, is this
the day that that's happened?
And so um, if you're a longtimelistener, you know we've made
some really, really cool thingshappen.
(03:27):
We've made people lots and lotsof money uh with our
traditional media campaigns andcombined with good digital
etiquette after that.
This CPM that Kyle speaks of,um we're talking about media uh
and specifically with TV versusYouTube.
Our goal with TV and any umwe'll call brand building media
(03:50):
is to win tomorrow's customer.
If you run a service businessuh or a professional service
business, or if you were in somesort of high-end retail,
anything basically besidescheeseburgers and movies and
things that people do every day,long big ticket item um
purchases, um there are a very,very, very small amount of
(04:14):
people buying your product atany given day.
It's a very, very infrequentcustomer.
And so our goal is to becomethe one people choose before
they ever get in that mode.
Because sometimes it takes 30years before somebody will do a
big home improvement, or uhit'll be a decade before they
need a lawyer, or they won'tneed, you know, some services,
(04:35):
but once in their entire life.
And so uh just the math worksout that you're far better off
to win their heart and mind longbefore they need your product
versus trying to get the very,very small amount of them at the
finish line with all yourcompetitors.
That's what we call tomorrowmarketing.
And in the Maven method, uh,which we published in our book,
(04:56):
The Maven Marketer, uh, a fewyears back, um, we outline all
the stories and all the all theways we've used this um process
to make companies grow faster,more profitably, uh, attract
better people, uh, attracthigher paying customers.
And so that's what we'resaying.
Has TV replaced or sorry, hasYouTube replaced TV's ability to
(05:17):
do that well?
And the number one rule wefollow is how many people can we
afford to reach daily?
And that is the media wechoose.
And so um CPM is a measure ofthat.
Um there's a there's an episodea few um weeks back where we
talked about all the digitalmetrics and what they mean.
CPM is just simply cost permilli or cost per thousand
(05:40):
people reached.
It's like the gas mileage ofyour marketing, right?
Yeah.
And so what we want to do isfind the medias that reach the
most amount of people for theleast amount of money.
Now, historically, onlinevideo, things like Hulu, things
like um OTT, which I'm sureyou've heard about, uh, which is
just, you know, ads that showup on Roku and show up on random
(06:01):
digital platforms and uh evenAmazon Prime and things like
that.
And then um uh also CTV, whichis like maybe you're watching
your local news channel on AppleTV or something like that.
All of those methods are fun,they're shiny, they're sexy.
Everybody's like, oh, I canimagine myself doing that.
What's the problem with them,Kyle?
Kyle (06:21):
Yeah, the big problem with some of those streaming
services and stuff like that isthey're just a lot more
expensive.
The CPMs are consistentlyprobably $40, $50, maybe even
more.
Um, they can kind of advertiseon being targeted options and
stuff like that.
And that is true.
They can be, you know, highlytargeted, but that also means
that you're gonna just reach asmaller amount of people.
So for what we're trying to doin our high-level strategy,
(06:42):
that's just typically doesn'tmake sense for what we're doing.
Brandon (06:46):
Yeah.
If the targeting were twice asum expensive, it would probably
still be worth it.
Right.
Because we could, you know,filter out the waste.
But when it's literally eightto twelve times more expensive,
it uh you you you reach thepeople anyway that you were
supposedly targeting, and youget all of the friends and
family that were watching withit, right?
So for that reason, we spendvery, very little amounts on
(07:10):
those super targeted, you know,sexy uh digital videos, not
because we don't think there'speople there.
Um, but recently, YouTube, um,our campaigns are just
noticeably beating that on a CPMlevel.
Kyle (07:24):
By a lot.
Brandon (07:25):
Yeah.
But yeah, by compared to likeHulu, for example, or or OTT or
whatever.
Kyle (07:30):
Exactly.
And when you think aboutYouTube, um, you know, these are
ads that play for usually it'slike a six-second ad that plays
before a video, and then youhave the option to skip it.
Uh, you'll see it in like 15seconds.
There's even like unskippable30-second ads sometimes.
So there's a lot of differentvariations of YouTube ads, but
traditionally it's a 30-secondad that you can skip after six
(07:50):
seconds before you're watchinglike a YouTube video.
Brandon (07:52):
That's where the vast majority of the impressions come
from, right?
Yep.
The types of deliverablesYouTube allows.
Right.
Now Kyle is in a uniqueposition to speak on this
because he runs all of ourYouTube campaigns.
He's the YouTube guru.
You might call him a URU.
Uh never heard that one.
Uh well now I have.
Now you are.
Put it on the screen.
Kyle Yuru, right?
And uh, what kind of CPMs areyou seeing?
Kyle (08:15):
Yeah, so it you I typically don't see them higher
than $10.
Um, it there's a lot ofvariables kind of depending on
what or if you're doing reallyany um interest targeting or
location targeting, but I'veseen them as low as two or three
dollars, even in really, reallyhigh volume accounts.
So, you know, accounts that aredoing over a million views a
(08:36):
month, um, typically their CPMsare like in the three to five
dollar range.
Um and those are you knowaccounts that have really,
really strong branding and havebeen doing this for for a long
time and you know our powers inin their area.
So um not everybody's gonna beto achieve that.
And then the content that ourvideo team makes is is really,
really engaging, and that helpstoo.
So when you're getting whenyou're getting good watch time
(08:57):
and stuff like that, that canimprove CPMs.
Brandon (08:59):
Glad you said that because for us to get that
result to start with, thecreative's got to be dang good.
Yeah, right.
There are a lot of people whoare still getting $20, $30, $40
CPMs on YouTube.
Okay.
That that is happening when youwhen you do just a crappy job.
Kyle (09:12):
Yeah.
Brandon (09:12):
Um, but we have awesome people.
We have Carter, we have Nate,and all the likes of the writers
and the creative geniuses here.
And we're saying, we're gettinglike that five to ten range a
lot of times, right?
Kyle (09:24):
Yeah.
Brandon (09:25):
And it's like, whoa, that is in direct competition
with broadcast.
Here is so from that level,YouTube is competing.
If people just you know if theif the goal is a blip of an ad
or them to see at least aportion of the ad, YouTube is
competing.
And for that reason, um, wehave started adding more and
(09:46):
more YouTube budget, especiallyfor clients who have a
millennial um bent or increasingtrend of millennials in their
business.
So definitely home improvement.
You know, the 30 and young 40somethings are finally
homeowners and they're comingaround to needing things like
roofers and HVAC andelectricians and all that, and
so it's a way to expandaudience.
(10:07):
Um no secret digital adoptionis greater at the lower ends of
the age spectrum, right?
So here's the catch.
Here's why we can't just say,Yep, it's 100% better because
it's competing with CPMs.
Um with terrestrial televisionand radio and just real
(10:34):
traditional you know, ad blocks,you're forced to see that
impression.
There's no skipping a localnews station ad, right?
Uh Kyle said that most peopleskip um at the six second mark.
How many actually is it onYouTube?
Kyle (10:49):
I think the data says that 65% of people are skipping
after that six-second mark.
Uh the average watch time for a15-second ad is like 5.5
seconds.
Wow.
And for a 30-second ad, theaverage watch time is like 7.4
seconds or something like that.
So you're really a Uru.
You're really not seeing you'rereally not seeing that like
scalability too.
(11:10):
Like it's like it's justdropping off.
Once they have the option toskip, people are are typically
skipping unless, you know, it'sa really, really uniquely good
content.
Brandon (11:17):
Now, part of that is the you know, production team's
fault.
Um holding that attention onYouTube is a real art.
Um, but on TV, even if uh, youknow, somebody's up taking a
tinkle um in the other room,that ad is likely still bouncing
off the walls and you stillhave a lot of um forced uh
(11:38):
exposure.
So you have to take that umunforced reach in YouTube.
And if you said five seconds ona 15-second ad, that's a third.
So I take my $10 CPM and Idivide that back out by you know
0.3, and I've got a $30 CPMagain for the people who
actually watch the full ad.
Now, we have campaigns, eventhe really, really good ones.
(12:01):
Um, and the one I'm thinking ofhas like a 25 to 35% fully
watched, you know, the averageis seven seconds on a 30-second
ad, but it's like, you know,there's a lot more people that
fall off at 10 and 12 and 15seconds, right?
Um, I'm saying like there's wehave a really, really, really
good campaign that gets, youknow, a pretty, pretty
(12:22):
significant portion, 100%.
But even then, you're stilldividing out if it's if it's
second for second and how manypeople heard or exposed the full
impression, you're way back upthere in the high end of the
CPMs.
Um, so for that reason, wecan't just say it's apples to
apples.
There's one last thing.
Do you know what it is?
(12:42):
On the the cons of YouTube?
It's uh we'll call them cons.
We'll say they're not why ithasn't replaced TV yet.
Kyle (12:49):
Yes.
Um that's absolutely just likethe the repetition aspect to the
the predictability of who'sgonna be watching the ad, the
frequency.
Brandon (12:58):
Yeah.
So YouTube, when you say, heyYouTube, I'd like to put some
ads in, it says great, what itasks you some demographic
questions, and you can go downto zip code level, which is
good.
You can go down to demographiclevel, male, female, you can
even go down to some interesttargeting.
Uh, it gets a little moreexpensive when you do that,
worth noting.
(13:18):
But what you can't do is say, Iwant to reach Kyle over and
over and over and over again.
Because I know the secret to myservice company becoming a
household name, becoming famous,becoming the one they think of,
and they've heard a gazilliontimes, is not that random people
hear it over and over, it's thesame person.
And so um that's just that'scalled frequency, but just
(13:40):
because you're gettingimpressions on YouTube doesn't
mean the same person is seeingit.
So, or or by the way, anydigital.
That's the downfall of alldigital compared to a
traditional linear signal.
And what happens there is thatuh on TV, it's not that every
single person comes back everyday and watches, but people are
(14:01):
creatures of habit.
And so if you are a, you know,a person who gets up and brushes
your teeth at 5 15 thismorning, you're probably doing
it the same tomorrow morning.
And you're probably foolingaround in the kitchen making
your bagels and your coffee andall that for 45 minutes, and you
flip on the news and you got 30minutes of the morning news.
If you're that kind of person,you probably do that most days
of the week.
Uh, or you probably fall asleepabout the same times.
(14:24):
You probably have the sameschedule.
And so maybe you go to churchon Wednesday nights, so you're
not seeing that out on Wednesdaynights, but Monday, Tuesday,
Thursday, Friday, more thanlikely you are.
That is the magic when largegroups of people show up and do
the same thing.
There's also another layer ofthat, that birds of a feather
flock together.
And when I've seen the samethings Kyle has seen, because we
(14:46):
hang out in the same, you know,workspace, we have the same
interests, we do the things youknow we do with our families,
and we're in the same age range,we're more likely to talk about
and give viral additive natureto those ad exposures.
Kyle (14:59):
Yeah.
Yeah, you've perfectlyexplained the nuance of just
being seen, just getting animpression versus building a
relationship, and that's donethrough, you know, predictable
repetition.
And um, while there are verypredictable things about YouTube
on, you know, how much I put inbudget-wise, you know, there's
I pr have a pretty good ideawhat I know I'm gonna get out of
that.
There's a very unpredictablenature to it that I'm like, I'm
(15:22):
not really sure, you know, howmany times Brandon's gonna see
this.
I know a lot of people will seeit.
I know how many people saw it.
I just don't know as much aboutthe frequency aspect, the
relationship building aspect.
Brandon (15:32):
Yeah.
The platform will tell youfrequency, but it's not telling
you frequency of Kyle seeing it.
It's telling you frequency ofpeople who are 35 plus seeing
it.
And there are tens and tens ofthousands of random people.
Um on on the whole, YouTubeprobably gets more daily users
than any given program or use ofTV outside of like extreme
weather or sports situations.
Kyle (15:53):
Yeah, we've I think we've actually seen YouTube grow as a
platform like quite a bit in thelast couple of years, just
general impressions have gone upfor sure.
But yeah.
Brandon (16:02):
And yeah, my goodness, we all we used it all five times
today already, right?
So it's not that YouTube isn'tbig and bad.
They are so big and so bad, andyou should be using them in the
mix, but it has not replacedthe exact things that TV can do
if your goal is to become ahousehold name, the the brand in
your community or your audiencethat people want to do business
(16:24):
with first.
YouTube is lesser of an impacton that.
Now, for the advertisers wehave that have strong brands,
they have strong householdawareness, most of the ones
we've done this with a few yearswould arguably be in the top
two or three in their entirelike community, right?
Uh even in big cities.
(16:44):
Um we are putting as much asten percent of the budget onto
YouTube if the goal is to getdown a little bit lower in the
demographic range because TVdoes reach its limit, you know,
below the age of 40.
It does reach some limits whereyou're just there's just not
opportunity because Kyle may notwatch local news, right?
(17:07):
Or he may not even watch theChiefs on a local station.
He may have the NFL app, andthat is fragmentation that is
happening, and that is why I'vesaid for a long time, hey, it's
gonna happen.
There's gonna be a day whereactually the transition between
you know now and the future isgonna be ugly because somebody
you're gonna have to spend a lotmore money to reach both
(17:29):
audiences because you don't getthat re repetitive repetitive
efficiency.
So we'll be back here nextMonday and every Monday after
that because marketers who can'tteach you why are just a fancy
lie.
Have a great week.
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm joined by Kyle about
them, Chiefs, DeVries.
Kyle (00:14):
You know, I'm I'm not worried yet.
Not you're worried yet,Brandon.
They always they always figureit out.
Okay.
Brandon (00:19):
You have any grand predictions on a uh, you know,
on a on a win loss?
Kyle (00:25):
Um I bet they go like 10 and 7.
They play 17 games now.
10 and 7.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know.
They'll they'll they'll squeakin.
They'll squeeze in there.
19 and one last year, wasn'tit?
Or 18 and 10 years.
I think they've got someinjuries and stuff, but they'll
they'll figure it out andthey'll they'll squeak in there
and they'll they'll be just finethere.
Brandon (00:44):
The magic of Mahomes is still with us, right?
Yeah.
So uh hey, if you're listeningfor the first time, this is the
place where we help youeliminate waste in your
advertising so you can grow yourbusiness and achieve the big
dream.
That big dream for us is aboutthe impact you make on your
people inside the four walls ofyour business, the impact you
make on your community, themagic things that happen when a
small business grows.
(01:04):
That is what we're all about.
We're unreasonably excitedabout small business.
There are a lot of peopletalking about big marketing and
funnels and digital ads, and welove those people.
There are very different, butwe select businesses doing zero
to a hundred million dollars ayear because we believe that is
uh that is actually where morethan 50% of the population
(01:25):
works.
We believe that's where thebiggest impact can be made as
mission-focused leaders.
And so we are here to serveyou.
And if you are new to thepodcast, because this title is a
little bit uh clickbaity, um,we're glad you're here.
And that is what we're allabout.
So with that in mind, why arewe talking about TV and YouTube,
(01:46):
Kyle?
Kyle (01:48):
Well, traditionally, I think TV has always been the
leader in how many and how manypeople can we reach for the the
least amount of money.
Uh TV has traditionally alwaysbeen the power there, and but
YouTube has kind of forced us topay attention recently.
We can get really um good CPMsor how the cost of reaching a
(02:08):
thousand people.
Um the C the CPMs for YouTubehave been really competitive in
recent years.
And so I think we've we've beenforced to kind of take a look
at um, you know, should we beimplementing this in our
strategy for our clients?
Brandon (02:20):
Yeah.
Worth saying um our agencyspends millions of dollars on
all different forms of media.
We are not tied to or biased orpreferencing any style of
media.
We have geniuses in everycorner of media management.
Um my background wastraditional media.
Uh, I did a lot of digitalmedia as well.
Uh, we've obviously built anagency off being a full service
(02:43):
um servicer of all of thosetypes of advertising.
So our only goal is that ourclients and our people, our
listeners, um grow theirbusinesses faster.
Like that is literally the onlygoal.
We're saying what has workedbest for best for us.
And even having come from atraditional media world, I've
said for well over 15 years,like there will be a day when
(03:06):
digital media, when all this,these shiny objects, which by
the way, I used to make myliving selling.
I said there will be a day whenthose actually do beat some
sort of traditional option.
And it's only in the last yearwe've started saying, is this
the day that that's happened?
And so um, if you're a longtimelistener, you know we've made
some really, really cool thingshappen.
(03:27):
We've made people lots and lotsof money uh with our
traditional media campaigns andcombined with good digital
etiquette after that.
This CPM that Kyle speaks of,um we're talking about media uh
and specifically with TV versusYouTube.
Our goal with TV and any umwe'll call brand building media
(03:50):
is to win tomorrow's customer.
If you run a service businessuh or a professional service
business, or if you were in somesort of high-end retail,
anything basically besidescheeseburgers and movies and
things that people do every day,long big ticket item um
purchases, um there are a very,very, very small amount of
(04:14):
people buying your product atany given day.
It's a very, very infrequentcustomer.
And so our goal is to becomethe one people choose before
they ever get in that mode.
Because sometimes it takes 30years before somebody will do a
big home improvement, or uhit'll be a decade before they
need a lawyer, or they won'tneed, you know, some services,
(04:35):
but once in their entire life.
And so uh just the math worksout that you're far better off
to win their heart and mind longbefore they need your product
versus trying to get the very,very small amount of them at the
finish line with all yourcompetitors.
That's what we call tomorrowmarketing.
And in the Maven method, uh,which we published in our book,
(04:56):
The Maven Marketer, uh, a fewyears back, um, we outline all
the stories and all the all theways we've used this um process
to make companies grow faster,more profitably, uh, attract
better people, uh, attracthigher paying customers.
And so that's what we'resaying.
Has TV replaced or sorry, hasYouTube replaced TV's ability to
(05:17):
do that well?
And the number one rule wefollow is how many people can we
afford to reach daily?
And that is the media wechoose.
And so um CPM is a measure ofthat.
Um there's a there's an episodea few um weeks back where we
talked about all the digitalmetrics and what they mean.
CPM is just simply cost permilli or cost per thousand
(05:40):
people reached.
It's like the gas mileage ofyour marketing, right?
Yeah.
And so what we want to do isfind the medias that reach the
most amount of people for theleast amount of money.
Now, historically, onlinevideo, things like Hulu, things
like um OTT, which I'm sureyou've heard about, uh, which is
just, you know, ads that showup on Roku and show up on random
(06:01):
digital platforms and uh evenAmazon Prime and things like
that.
And then um uh also CTV, whichis like maybe you're watching
your local news channel on AppleTV or something like that.
All of those methods are fun,they're shiny, they're sexy.
Everybody's like, oh, I canimagine myself doing that.
What's the problem with them,Kyle?
Kyle (06:21):
Yeah, the big problem with some of those streaming
services and stuff like that isthey're just a lot more
expensive.
The CPMs are consistentlyprobably $40, $50, maybe even
more.
Um, they can kind of advertiseon being targeted options and
stuff like that.
And that is true.
They can be, you know, highlytargeted, but that also means
that you're gonna just reach asmaller amount of people.
So for what we're trying to doin our high-level strategy,
(06:42):
that's just typically doesn'tmake sense for what we're doing.
Brandon (06:46):
Yeah.
If the targeting were twice asum expensive, it would probably
still be worth it.
Right.
Because we could, you know,filter out the waste.
But when it's literally eightto twelve times more expensive,
it uh you you you reach thepeople anyway that you were
supposedly targeting, and youget all of the friends and
family that were watching withit, right?
So for that reason, we spendvery, very little amounts on
(07:10):
those super targeted, you know,sexy uh digital videos, not
because we don't think there'speople there.
Um, but recently, YouTube, um,our campaigns are just
noticeably beating that on a CPMlevel.
Kyle (07:24):
By a lot.
Brandon (07:25):
Yeah.
But yeah, by compared to likeHulu, for example, or or OTT or
whatever.
Kyle (07:30):
Exactly.
And when you think aboutYouTube, um, you know, these are
ads that play for usually it'slike a six-second ad that plays
before a video, and then youhave the option to skip it.
Uh, you'll see it in like 15seconds.
There's even like unskippable30-second ads sometimes.
So there's a lot of differentvariations of YouTube ads, but
traditionally it's a 30-secondad that you can skip after six
(07:50):
seconds before you're watchinglike a YouTube video.
Brandon (07:52):
That's where the vast majority of the impressions come
from, right?
Yep.
The types of deliverablesYouTube allows.
Right.
Now Kyle is in a uniqueposition to speak on this
because he runs all of ourYouTube campaigns.
He's the YouTube guru.
You might call him a URU.
Uh never heard that one.
Uh well now I have.
Now you are.
Put it on the screen.
Kyle Yuru, right?
And uh, what kind of CPMs areyou seeing?
Kyle (08:15):
Yeah, so it you I typically don't see them higher
than $10.
Um, it there's a lot ofvariables kind of depending on
what or if you're doing reallyany um interest targeting or
location targeting, but I'veseen them as low as two or three
dollars, even in really, reallyhigh volume accounts.
So, you know, accounts that aredoing over a million views a
(08:36):
month, um, typically their CPMsare like in the three to five
dollar range.
Um and those are you knowaccounts that have really,
really strong branding and havebeen doing this for for a long
time and you know our powers inin their area.
So um not everybody's gonna beto achieve that.
And then the content that ourvideo team makes is is really,
really engaging, and that helpstoo.
So when you're getting whenyou're getting good watch time
(08:57):
and stuff like that, that canimprove CPMs.
Brandon (08:59):
Glad you said that because for us to get that
result to start with, thecreative's got to be dang good.
Yeah, right.
There are a lot of people whoare still getting $20, $30, $40
CPMs on YouTube.
Okay.
That that is happening when youwhen you do just a crappy job.
Kyle (09:12):
Yeah.
Brandon (09:12):
Um, but we have awesome people.
We have Carter, we have Nate,and all the likes of the writers
and the creative geniuses here.
And we're saying, we're gettinglike that five to ten range a
lot of times, right?
Kyle (09:24):
Yeah.
Brandon (09:25):
And it's like, whoa, that is in direct competition
with broadcast.
Here is so from that level,YouTube is competing.
If people just you know if theif the goal is a blip of an ad
or them to see at least aportion of the ad, YouTube is
competing.
And for that reason, um, wehave started adding more and
(09:46):
more YouTube budget, especiallyfor clients who have a
millennial um bent or increasingtrend of millennials in their
business.
So definitely home improvement.
You know, the 30 and young 40somethings are finally
homeowners and they're comingaround to needing things like
roofers and HVAC andelectricians and all that, and
so it's a way to expandaudience.
(10:07):
Um no secret digital adoptionis greater at the lower ends of
the age spectrum, right?
So here's the catch.
Here's why we can't just say,Yep, it's 100% better because
it's competing with CPMs.
Um with terrestrial televisionand radio and just real
(10:34):
traditional you know, ad blocks,you're forced to see that
impression.
There's no skipping a localnews station ad, right?
Uh Kyle said that most peopleskip um at the six second mark.
How many actually is it onYouTube?
Kyle (10:49):
I think the data says that 65% of people are skipping
after that six-second mark.
Uh the average watch time for a15-second ad is like 5.5
seconds.
Wow.
And for a 30-second ad, theaverage watch time is like 7.4
seconds or something like that.
So you're really a Uru.
You're really not seeing you'rereally not seeing that like
scalability too.
(11:10):
Like it's like it's justdropping off.
Once they have the option toskip, people are are typically
skipping unless, you know, it'sa really, really uniquely good
content.
Brandon (11:17):
Now, part of that is the you know, production team's
fault.
Um holding that attention onYouTube is a real art.
Um, but on TV, even if uh, youknow, somebody's up taking a
tinkle um in the other room,that ad is likely still bouncing
off the walls and you stillhave a lot of um forced uh
(11:38):
exposure.
So you have to take that umunforced reach in YouTube.
And if you said five seconds ona 15-second ad, that's a third.
So I take my $10 CPM and Idivide that back out by you know
0.3, and I've got a $30 CPMagain for the people who
actually watch the full ad.
Now, we have campaigns, eventhe really, really good ones.
(12:01):
Um, and the one I'm thinking ofhas like a 25 to 35% fully
watched, you know, the averageis seven seconds on a 30-second
ad, but it's like, you know,there's a lot more people that
fall off at 10 and 12 and 15seconds, right?
Um, I'm saying like there's wehave a really, really, really
good campaign that gets, youknow, a pretty, pretty
(12:22):
significant portion, 100%.
But even then, you're stilldividing out if it's if it's
second for second and how manypeople heard or exposed the full
impression, you're way back upthere in the high end of the
CPMs.
Um, so for that reason, wecan't just say it's apples to
apples.
There's one last thing.
Do you know what it is?
(12:42):
On the the cons of YouTube?
It's uh we'll call them cons.
We'll say they're not why ithasn't replaced TV yet.
Kyle (12:49):
Yes.
Um that's absolutely just likethe the repetition aspect to the
the predictability of who'sgonna be watching the ad, the
frequency.
Brandon (12:58):
Yeah.
So YouTube, when you say, heyYouTube, I'd like to put some
ads in, it says great, what itasks you some demographic
questions, and you can go downto zip code level, which is
good.
You can go down to demographiclevel, male, female, you can
even go down to some interesttargeting.
Uh, it gets a little moreexpensive when you do that,
worth noting.
(13:18):
But what you can't do is say, Iwant to reach Kyle over and
over and over and over again.
Because I know the secret to myservice company becoming a
household name, becoming famous,becoming the one they think of,
and they've heard a gazilliontimes, is not that random people
hear it over and over, it's thesame person.
And so um that's just that'scalled frequency, but just
(13:40):
because you're gettingimpressions on YouTube doesn't
mean the same person is seeingit.
So, or or by the way, anydigital.
That's the downfall of alldigital compared to a
traditional linear signal.
And what happens there is thatuh on TV, it's not that every
single person comes back everyday and watches, but people are
(14:01):
creatures of habit.
And so if you are a, you know,a person who gets up and brushes
your teeth at 5 15 thismorning, you're probably doing
it the same tomorrow morning.
And you're probably foolingaround in the kitchen making
your bagels and your coffee andall that for 45 minutes, and you
flip on the news and you got 30minutes of the morning news.
If you're that kind of person,you probably do that most days
of the week.
Uh, or you probably fall asleepabout the same times.
(14:24):
You probably have the sameschedule.
And so maybe you go to churchon Wednesday nights, so you're
not seeing that out on Wednesdaynights, but Monday, Tuesday,
Thursday, Friday, more thanlikely you are.
That is the magic when largegroups of people show up and do
the same thing.
There's also another layer ofthat, that birds of a feather
flock together.
And when I've seen the samethings Kyle has seen, because we
(14:46):
hang out in the same, you know,workspace, we have the same
interests, we do the things youknow we do with our families,
and we're in the same age range,we're more likely to talk about
and give viral additive natureto those ad exposures.
Kyle (14:59):
Yeah.
Yeah, you've perfectlyexplained the nuance of just
being seen, just getting animpression versus building a
relationship, and that's donethrough, you know, predictable
repetition.
And um, while there are verypredictable things about YouTube
on, you know, how much I put inbudget-wise, you know, there's
I pr have a pretty good ideawhat I know I'm gonna get out of
that.
There's a very unpredictablenature to it that I'm like, I'm
(15:22):
not really sure, you know, howmany times Brandon's gonna see
this.
I know a lot of people will seeit.
I know how many people saw it.
I just don't know as much aboutthe frequency aspect, the
relationship building aspect.
Brandon (15:32):
Yeah.
The platform will tell youfrequency, but it's not telling
you frequency of Kyle seeing it.
It's telling you frequency ofpeople who are 35 plus seeing
it.
And there are tens and tens ofthousands of random people.
Um on on the whole, YouTubeprobably gets more daily users
than any given program or use ofTV outside of like extreme
weather or sports situations.
Kyle (15:53):
Yeah, we've I think we've actually seen YouTube grow as a
platform like quite a bit in thelast couple of years, just
general impressions have gone upfor sure.
But yeah.
Brandon (16:02):
And yeah, my goodness, we all we used it all five times
today already, right?
So it's not that YouTube isn'tbig and bad.
They are so big and so bad, andyou should be using them in the
mix, but it has not replacedthe exact things that TV can do
if your goal is to become ahousehold name, the the brand in
your community or your audiencethat people want to do business
(16:24):
with first.
YouTube is lesser of an impacton that.
Now, for the advertisers wehave that have strong brands,
they have strong householdawareness, most of the ones
we've done this with a few yearswould arguably be in the top
two or three in their entirelike community, right?
Uh even in big cities.
(16:44):
Um we are putting as much asten percent of the budget onto
YouTube if the goal is to getdown a little bit lower in the
demographic range because TVdoes reach its limit, you know,
below the age of 40.
It does reach some limits whereyou're just there's just not
opportunity because Kyle may notwatch local news, right?
(17:07):
Or he may not even watch theChiefs on a local station.
He may have the NFL app, andthat is fragmentation that is
happening, and that is why I'vesaid for a long time, hey, it's
gonna happen.
There's gonna be a day whereactually the transition between
you know now and the future isgonna be ugly because somebody
you're gonna have to spend a lotmore money to reach both
(17:29):
audiences because you don't getthat re repetitive repetitive
efficiency.
So we'll be back here nextMonday and every Monday after
that because marketers who can'tteach you why are just a fancy
lie.
Have a great week.
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