April 21, 2025 • 26 mins
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Host: Brandon Welch
Co-Host: Caleb Agee
Executive Producer: Carter Breaux
Audio/Video Producer: Nate the Camera Guy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandon Welch (00:06):
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, brandon Welch,and I'm here with Caleb taking a
sabbatical AG.
Caleb Agee (00:15):
Oh.
You know he doesn't tell methese things before we start the
episode.
So I'm always like how do Irespond to what he just called
me?
Where?
Brandon Welch (00:24):
are we going?
Where are we going?
Where are you going?
Yeah, what are you doing?
Or you're not even allowed tosay, are you?
Caleb Agee (00:28):
Sabbatical.
Why Are you not supposed to beable to find me?
Yeah, is that the goal?
Brandon Welch (00:31):
I don't know.
We haven't written the fullrules yet, probably because we
haven't done one, but it is acommitment of ours here that if
you've been at frankenmaven for10 years, you get to leave for a
month.
You get to go on your ownsabbatical your own journey, go
find yourself, go walk about.
Caleb Agee (00:51):
Yeah, go walk about yes, that's what I'm gonna do
walk about the ozark mountainsand uh.
So, if you see, me hitchhiking.
Pick me up, yeah, give me alittle ride yeah, he's got one
up.
Yes, you'll know because hewon't be here for four weeks,
unless we get way ahead ofschedule.
Maybe, we might it could happen.
Brandon Welch (01:12):
Crazier things have happened.
Yeah, hey, this is the placewhere we help you eliminate
waste and advertising, grow yourbusiness and achieve the big
dream and boy sabbatical, bigdreams that's pretty cool.
If you're not doing that inyour company.
You maybe should.
I think we heard We'll let youknow how it goes.
Caleb Agee (01:27):
Yeah, we'll let you know.
In a talk last week we heardthat only I think it's 17% of
companies have a sabbaticalprogram of any kind.
Brandon Welch (01:35):
Yeah.
Caleb Agee (01:37):
But the benefits of it are tremendous.
Yes, not even just for theperson who leaves, but also for
the organization, because of thesuccession planning and the
extra coverage you have to buildin while you're gone and then
when you come back.
Yes, that's not what we'retalking about today.
Brandon Welch (01:53):
It's not but.
I did want to highlight it,instead of just saying you're
going on one, you should do ittoo, yes, for yourself or your
team members, but today we aregoing to we're going to focus on
this eliminate waste, becausethere are so many of you doing
awesome, wonderful things, andthe front-facing part of any
business arguably even morefront-facing than your own
(02:15):
building or your people is thesalesman that happens in your
sleep and that is your website.
That's right and we don't haveto tell you that a good website
is a good thing to do.
But we have encountered so manypeople over the years and,
frankly, we're right, smack dabin the middle of some right now
who have gone through theagonizing process of rebuilding
a website.
(02:35):
And it is agonizing and it isexpensive and to do it well, it
just takes a lot of work.
I mean well over 100 hours inmost cases for our team.
So we're working on somebody'swebsite for potentially two or
three months.
But there are some cautionarytales we've gathered over the
years and we're like, hey, whatif we could save our people from
(02:59):
going through these things.
And it doesn't mean thateverybody building a website is
trying to take advantage of youor mislead you, but there are a
lot of talented people who aretalented at one part of it.
And there's just some thingswe've learned after managing,
building, owning, inheritinghundreds of websites.
(03:20):
I mean I'd say we're in the 300to 400 website territory easy at
any given time, like in ourpossession, and so you wearing
all the hats that you wear inyour business.
It's not your job to be anexpert web developer.
That's why you would hire one.
However, we're going to teachyou how to hire one and ask the
right questions.
That will save you so manyhours and frustrations later, so
(03:42):
that you're you're all prepared.
Caleb Agee (03:44):
Yeah, I'm especially passionate about this one
because, uh, a lot of peopledon't know, but I'm a nerd and,
uh, I came here as a webdeveloper.
Brandon Welch (03:53):
We couldn't tell by looking at you yeah, as if
yeah, uh.
Caleb Agee (03:57):
I'm not wearing my glasses today.
Brandon Welch (03:58):
It's true.
Caleb Agee (03:59):
Somebody else is.
Brandon Welch (03:59):
That's true.
Caleb Agee (04:00):
I'm just saying, Um, but yeah, we want to make sure
you're prepared if you do decideto rebuild your website or get
somebody involved in helping youupdate it or whatever that
looks like Today.
We have 11 things to knowbefore rebuilding your website,
and we're going to get rightinto it.
Brandon Welch (04:18):
Yeah, number one, I can't believe this still
happens.
But it should go without sayingask who owns this website once
it's built.
The olden days, this happened alot.
People would build yousomething and they would hold
the keys to the castle.
Yeah, it was so rampant.
(04:38):
At one point One of our piecesof copy we said about ourselves
is we.
One of our core values is thatwe would never let your website
be held hostage by nerds.
People are more smarter thanthey used to be, so less people
get away with that.
But you do need to ask who ownsthe server.
Like is this the?
Is this your own instance of anAmazon server or a virtual
(05:03):
server that you have thecredentials, or is it built and
hosted on somebody else's server?
Yeah, and who owns this?
Yeah, go ahead.
The other side, the other sideof that is.
Caleb Agee (05:14):
There are these, you know, managed platforms like
Squarespace or Duda or Webflow.
There are tons of these.
Wix, godaddy has their own.
There are bunches of them.
What I'd make sure you know isyour agency can build that under
their account, and some ofthose have a way where it's
under their account like as anumbrella, and then you have a
(05:36):
client server that's yours.
Brandon Welch (05:38):
Or you have access to it.
Right, you have access to it,but you don't technically own it
, yeah, and then sometimes youdon't own it.
Caleb Agee (05:43):
So if you said, hey, you're fired, I want my website
, let's go.
It's a whole deal to pick it upand move it.
Yes, it's not just a transferof ownership.
So you want to make?
Sure that if you're going tolet them hold it, because that
may be more convenient orhelpful or whatever that is.
(06:04):
That's fine, as long as it'seasy for you to get a hold of it
and that you know it's yours inthe end.
Brandon Welch (06:12):
And if they die, get hit by a bus or whatever
that scenario is like, how doyou get a hold of it?
Caleb Agee (06:17):
Yeah, that's a big deal.
Along with that is your domainand then obviously access to
edit it.
So I would mostly recommendthat you have your domain in
your own account.
So your domain is your URL.
So frankandmavencom is ourdomain name.
We own that in a GoDaddyaccount.
(06:38):
It may be Network Solutions, itmay be whatever what you want
to make sure is when you boughtthe domain.
That you buy it and you own it,Not that your agency owns it,
because it's again harder totransfer.
It takes about seven days totransfer from one place to the
other.
That's kind of rough.
Brandon Welch (06:57):
Nobody ever gets around to it until it's too late
and somebody like really needsaccess to it.
Yeah, over the years we've doneit out of convenience for folks
.
And then, you know, at theworst possible time they're like
I need my domain and we're like, okay, we'll do it, but it's
going to take three days.
We would never hold it hostage.
I want to say that clearly.
But yeah, buy it in your ownaccount and then give them
(07:18):
access to it.
Super big clarity.
Your domain is sort of likeowning your address.
It just tells the internetwhere to point to find your
website.
So if it's frankenmavencom,just because we had control of
our domain doesn't necessarilymean we have control of our
website and all the code and thepictures and the development of
(07:39):
that.
So you want to make sure youreally have access to both Yep.
Caleb Agee (07:45):
Number two Ask is it being built for speed and SEO
or just to look cool?
Brandon Welch (07:55):
Nothing wrong with a cool looking website.
You ought to have one.
Caleb Agee (07:58):
Is it built to?
You know, convert?
Is it functional and pretty?
Is it so?
You need to know that you'rebridging the gap between
multiple things here, becausethat is what a website has to do
.
It has to rank well, whichsometimes you're you're you're
trending toward appeasing robots, it seems like, and the copy
(08:19):
can start to sound a littlerobotic or whatever.
It needs to look beautiful forthe people who look at it.
But then, it also needs to befunctional.
It needs to sell, it needs toconvert.
It needs to be more than abrochure that you have on your
website.
Brandon Welch (08:37):
So we've encountered a lot of beautiful
websites that were getting 2% 3%conversion rates and ranking
horribly on Google.
I've seen one recently that wasa really good example of that,
and it's just because it wasprobably more of a graphic
designer that built it and madesomething beautiful instead of
making it technically sound.
So ideally that's probably twodifferent skill sets on the team
(08:59):
.
Some people can pull off both,but or maybe if you're using a
template, you can kind of getsome of the cool factor.
Yeah, you know, built in, Iguess, but just make sure you're
asking that question, yeah.
Caleb Agee (09:11):
And sniff out whether or not they bend toward
one direction or the other.
Yeah, that's what you want tofeel.
Brandon Welch (09:16):
Along those lines of the pretty game.
This is number three.
Know that design does not equalstrategy.
Caleb Agee (09:25):
Love this one.
Brandon Welch (09:26):
Yeah.
So just because it again,because it looks cool, doesn't
mean that it's marketingfriendly, it doesn't mean that
it's actually promoting yourproduct.
And what I would say is you,being the product owner or the
service owner or the businessowner, are going to fill in gaps
that no other human beingthat's a potential customer are
(09:46):
going to be able to fill in,meaning you're going to look at
it and go, oh yeah, it's perfectbecause you know everything
about your product.
But there's often some reallyobvious stuff missing out of
website copy that could bearound your sales process, that
could be around values.
That could be around likewhat's the dang outcome?
Like sell the result.
We talk about that in the MavenMarketer, know what you're
(10:08):
really selling, and so almostalways, uh, I can think of one
guy who's like equally good atwriting copy and strategy as he
is at designing.
Um, he's actually probablystill a better writer than he is
a designer, but he makes coolstuff and you just just know
that, just because you like theway it looks, you need to put it
(10:29):
through third party eyes andsay what am I selling here?
Yeah, uncover the gaps.
Caleb Agee (10:34):
Yep.
So just be careful.
The mock-up might be gorgeousand it might be a billion times
looking better looking than whatyou have today, but you need to
make sure that also what itsays and where it leads the
customers, that it speaks totheir needs, pains, hopes and
fears, and you walk throughtheir psychology, you walk
through what they're thinkingand your brand phrases and
(10:56):
you're working all of that inbecause you're investing in
tomorrow marketing.
There needs to be a resoundingreminder of that as well.
So all of those things thatdeveloper you just kind of hire,
if they're not your agencyright now, they're just going to
kind of go in their owndirection and you could have
some disparity between all ofthat.
Brandon Welch (11:13):
A great framework to get that messaging stuff out
is the messaging framework inFrank and Maven.
It's who you're talking to.
What are their needs, pains,hopes, fears.
How does your product satisfythat and what's the most
reasonable next step for action?
Like that flow would be reallygood because it takes people
from emotional to logic toemotional to logic.
Then you get him to act on thatand that's that you want to
just do basic, basic psychologyof buying.
(11:35):
That's what we do.
Caleb Agee (11:36):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (11:36):
We use logic to justify our emotions, so you
want to do that in your website,number four.
Caleb Agee (11:43):
Number four is ask will this site be easy to update
after we launch it, or am Igoing to have to hire you every
single time to make the tiniestchange in the world?
Brandon Welch (11:54):
There are some knuckleheads out there that
build websites on this businessmodel that you're always going
to need them, and so they holdyou hostage and they build stuff
in such a nerdy way.
That's not intuitive, and inthis day and age there used to
be a.
There used to be sort of atechnical knowledge ante that
you just had to have to doanything with the website.
Caleb Agee (12:13):
It's kind of gone.
It's not true anymore.
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (12:15):
Right now, most of you listening should be able
to log on and edit your ownwebsite if you want to.
Now, you might still choose tohire somebody or employ somebody
.
Caleb Agee (12:22):
Yeah, your time may be more valuable than learning
that, right, but that's fine.
Brandon Welch (12:27):
But when you fire somebody and you got to get
them off the website thisweekend because they're a
liability, you shouldn't bewaiting around on some nerd to
get around to you to be able todo that.
Yeah, you should be able to dothat.
Caleb Agee (12:37):
I also believe you know, by the way, we manage
websites and we have.
You know we have them, but it'snot in the client's best
interest for them to have tocall us and then to get into our
workflow, which may be maybetoday, but likely it's, you know
, friday that they're going toget this update done, but they
need it done now.
(12:58):
And so if they have the keys andthey have the ability to do it
now, let's go.
And uh, that saves everybody,you know.
Three emails and fourclarifying questions.
It's so much more efficient foreverybody.
Yeah, um, and the developerthat that holds you hostage in
that situation.
Even if they're making 300bucks an hour, it's still not
(13:19):
worth the time.
Brandon Welch (13:19):
So Exactly, uh, with that um.
Number five is ask what happensafter the launch of this
website.
Who trains us, um, to be ableto do all these edits and to
know where everything is and tomake sure you have ownership and
to make sure you can writestuff on the site, and all of
that?
You need some basic training,especially if it's a new
(13:42):
platform that you're not used to, and so we have, like a
handover process here thatbasically says here's your new
car and here are the keys, andhere's how you set the radio and
all that stuff, except for it'snot a car, it's a website,
caleb.
Caleb Agee (13:53):
It's a website.
That's right.
Brandon Welch (13:54):
See what I did there.
I like it, yeah.
So just ask that.
I think it's prettystraightforward, but who's going
to train us?
How long is that going to takeand what's?
Caleb Agee (14:06):
your estimate for how long before we can be making
our own edits to this thing?
Yep Is, custom code equalscustom problems.
I love this one because, um, in, as we just mentioned, all of
these sites should have somesort of page builder or some
sort of easy to use builder ofsome sort.
And, um, if they are, ifthey're using a, a builder like
(14:32):
uh, like WordPress has several,or Squarespace, but then they
custom code every single pieceof it, you are going to have to
know where all that code liesand know how to read it and
change it.
Just to do the smallest thingson your website, I have at times
seen websites done where it wasliterally done in a drag and
(14:55):
drop builder, but and they usedsome of the elements from the
drag and drop builder, but theyapplied custom code to every
single piece of it.
So to change it, you had to goto five places and change code
everywhere, and that's not goodfor the you.
It's not good for the you know,for the ease of use and
updating it.
So, um, unless you havesomething really complex, they
should err on the side of usingthat page builder.
(15:17):
They should use that drag anddrop thing so that later, when
you need to change a picture.
It's two clicks and you got it,and that's really really
dangerous if you're looking atsomebody who just custom codes
every single thing.
Brandon Welch (15:30):
Yeah, love it.
Yeah, love it.
Yeah, there's probablysomething already built unless
you're really really weird thatyou can use.
Yeah, I will add that it's.
Yes, it's a little bitcapitalistic to have to pay
somebody a subscription to usesomething that's already built,
such as, like, for your shippingor for your lead curation or
your CRM or whatever.
(15:51):
But because they have the moneybeing supported, they can
afford to constantly update it.
Caleb Agee (15:58):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (15:59):
You may, you probably don't want to bear that
burden of constantly paying toupdate your custom solution.
That's right, that's right, allright, number seven hey, can I
see three recent websites you'vebuilt, and can I talk to those
clients about their process?
Man, this would clear a lot ofmissteps out of the way.
There's this allure when you'retalking to a nerd.
(16:24):
When they're talking aboutthings you don't know how to
talk about, that, you justassume that they're an expert.
That does not mean that they'regood at customer service.
That does not mean that they'regood at time management.
That does not mean that they'regood at customer service.
That does not mean that they'regood at time management.
That does not mean that they'regood at design.
That does not mean that they'requalified to make you happy.
Probably only past clients cangive you an honest assessment
and I would say this I probablywouldn't have said this early in
(16:45):
my career but if they don'thave those, expect to hire them
at a discount, because it's abigger risk to you.
If they're building theirportfolio, to hire them at a
discount because it's a biggerrisk to you If they're building
their portfolio.
Just be like hey, I like youand I want to trust you, but I
don't think I can pay you thesame as I would pay somebody
who's done this a hundred timesbecause you don't have that
under your belt, that's right.
So you might call some of theirrecent clients and say did they
(17:07):
finish on time?
Did they stay on budget?
Were they easy to work with?
Are you enjoying your new site?
How are your search enginerankings?
Did your conversion rateimprove?
How's the lead flow of yourbusiness right now?
Like, just figure out, did theyhave the stuff or they didn't?
Caleb Agee (17:21):
Yes, number eight.
Number eight Ask what's thetimeline and what happens if you
miss it.
Everyone knows when you call acontractor, you automatically
expect to add what 25 to 50% onthe timeline they give you.
Brandon Welch (17:37):
I call it the 20% rule.
Caleb Agee (17:39):
And, unfortunately, web developers have a very
similar um you know reality orabout them, and so what we want
to make sure is that they'vestated out loud what they expect
, like what kind of timelinethey expect us to do.
That tells you whether or notthey have a process that they
follow or if they're kind ofmeandering into getting websites
(18:01):
done.
Brandon Welch (18:01):
Let me let the nerds off the hook for a second
Cause.
A lot of times you're thereason it didn't get done on
time.
Caleb Agee (18:07):
Client, you are the you are the reason.
Brandon Welch (18:15):
You are the client yeah, not the web
developer, not Caleb.
Yeah, you are the reason.
Yeah, a lot of times it's you.
You didn't get back to them,you were on vacation, you didn't
quite know how to articulatesomething, you couldn't have
time on your schedule to tellthem what changes you wanted,
and so we always make thatdisclaimer that if you give us
this feedback by this date,We'll be on track.
We'll be on track.
If you don't, you know whatever.
(18:36):
You missed it, plus add a fewdays because it takes us to get
back in our workflow that way.
So, and then I would say whathappens if you miss it.
I would just make sure thatthey have a protocol.
Okay, at 60 days, no matterwhat, we will have a check-in
and we will give you the list ofwhat's left to do.
We'll have a punch list.
I think that would be the mostreasonable thing.
(18:58):
I don't know that it's wise tolike say, oh, we're going to
give you a discount or whatever.
Now I would not pay until Iwouldn't pay the final payment.
Until it's done, we usuallybreak ours up into two or three
payments, so final payment iswhen it's live and the world can
visit it.
Yeah, but yeah, just make sureyou've got checkpoints in.
That would be probably thehealthiest thing.
(19:24):
Number nine know your developeris not your brand voice.
So we talked about messagingand marketing, but this is also
website copy.
Even if you think, oh, this guywill just look at the rest of
(19:58):
my website and he'll know whatto do.
He doesn't highly technicalexpert that can code and think
in terms of development language.
I'm not saying they can'tcoexist, but I don't see it very
often, and so you don't justneed good design, you don't just
need good strategy, you alsoneed really good copy and
messaging, and so that might bea third force within those
people working on your team.
Any established web developeris going to know that about
themselves, and they're going tohave somebody that is
specifically on staff for a copy, and I would maybe ask who's
(20:19):
going to be writing this?
Caleb Agee (20:20):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (20:21):
Yeah, make sense.
Caleb Agee (20:22):
Yep, I agree.
Number 10, ask how will thiswebsite generate more leads or
revenue?
Brandon Welch (20:29):
It's probably the first thing you should ask,
yeah Is, should we even do this?
Is this solving a real businessobjective or do we just kind of
sort of feel like we'd like tosee a new website?
Caleb Agee (20:38):
Yeah, um, that that is obviously at the end of the
day.
Um, it's that businessobjective.
If they, if they lean on design, if they lean on technical
prowess, if they lean on um someplatform or tool or whatever
that is, but they don't talkabout the business reality of
you getting more leads and salesand therefore revenue, or maybe
(21:01):
sales online, because it'se-com or whatever, and therefore
revenue, then your businessscoreboard is not going up and
you're investing tens ofthousands of dollars into
something that will not pay off.
Brandon Welch (21:12):
Amen to that.
So, there you go.
They should have an answer forthat.
They should, and if they don't,if you're not confident in that
, it's probably not the rightperson.
Caleb Agee (21:20):
It's probably no go.
Brandon Welch (21:23):
Last question, number 11.
What happens when somethingbreaks and it's going to break
folks?
Let me just let the nerds offthe hook again.
If something breaks, thatdoesn't mean you've got a bad
website.
If something breaks, thatdoesn't mean that you didn't get
your money's worth.
If something breaks, that meansthat the internet is doing.
What the internet will alwaysdo is that it will advance.
New browsers come out, newiPhones come out, new security
(21:47):
protocols come out, new thingscome out with servers and the
way IP services are handledinternet providers and so it's
going to break.
It's just what happens, and howdo we plan for that?
Caleb Agee (21:59):
Yeah, so I always make the comparison to your car.
Right.
If you don't watch or take careof or maintain your car, nate
the camera guy is the mostparticular car owner.
Brandon Welch (22:14):
I have ever seen.
He's the Gen Z shade treemechanic.
Caleb Agee (22:19):
He checks his oil every time he puts gas in it,
just like he's supposed to Justlike we're all supposed to he
pulls out that dipstick.
Nobody else I know ever ischecking the oil.
Brandon Welch (22:27):
Let me just tell you he drives a fancy reliable
car.
It's not because it's a clunker, it's not because it needs to,
it's because he takes pride.
He takes great pride.
Caleb Agee (22:36):
Is it a year old?
Yet A year and a half old.
It's a brand new car basically.
And he's checking the oil everysingle time, and it's a car
that will go abuse his make ofcar.
He's a toyota man yeah and youcould probably still get 150 000
you pour you pour concrete inthe gas tank it probably still
go another 100 miles on.
(22:56):
Yeah, so, um, but if he doesn't, he will take good care of it.
If you don't take care of yourwebsite, or if your developer or
whoever's maintaining yourwebsite, doesn't take care of it
, um, you don't get those oilchanges if you don't change the
tires.
It's gonna.
There are foreign objects thatwill cause your tires to pop.
There are things that on theinside of your car that will
(23:17):
cause it to malfunction, andthat's the same thing is true on
your website.
There are things inside yourwebsite that will the little
ghosts and the bugs that'llhappen.
Um, that looks like plugins andthemes.
Um, something we were talkingabout before is, uh, like, with
WordPress, you have to you paylicense fees for plugins and
themes.
(23:37):
Um, I would recommend you payfor those client like, not the
developer, cause what thedeveloper is going to do is
they're going to pay for it thatfirst year and then, if you're
not actively paying them in thefuture, when the annual
subscription comes up, they'llprobably let it lapse, and then
your plugins are getting out oftime and therefore vulnerable.
(23:57):
And you've got security issuesor you've got update issues and
the site might crash.
So it's not hard to getsomething that will protect it
from robots or attackers.
It's not hard to get somethingthat will back it up every
single morning or night.
And when it blows up, firstthing you can do usually is like
well, let's revert it toyesterday's copy and then figure
(24:20):
out what happened so we canstop it from happening tomorrow.
Brandon Welch (24:23):
And put a maintenance budget in your mind,
or just your marketing budget.
You might spend big money tobuild a site this year, spend
another couple grand next yeardoing updates.
I'm not talking about justregular content, I'm just saying
have it either a goodmaintenance plan with your
developer, or just say, hey, weknow every year we're going to
(24:44):
have a little project that'sjust going to be updating,
refreshing and that's good formarketing too.
Just like you wouldn't leaveyour storefront the same forever
, you would merchandise and movethings around.
You need to do that too, yeah.
So hey, let's do a quick recap.
One make sure you own yourwebsite, or you know who owns it
.
Caleb Agee (25:03):
Don't settle for just a design-only website.
Make sure it's going to sell.
Brandon Welch (25:07):
Yep Definitely understand that you need a
skilled messaging and strategyperson.
That's number three.
Caleb Agee (25:13):
Number four make sure you can edit it.
Brandon Welch (25:16):
Yep Number five make sure you get the training
to edit it, to be able to editit.
Caleb Agee (25:21):
Number six make sure your developer is not going to
custom code the whole freakingthing.
Brandon Welch (25:25):
Or anything if possible.
Yeah, Number seven is talk toreal past clients and get
referrals and a real good ideaif you're working with because
you're going to be workingclosely together.
Caleb Agee (25:34):
Number eight lock in .
Get clear on a timeline.
Brandon Welch (25:37):
Number nine do not let somebody else influence
your brand just because they'rebuilding your new website.
They're not your brand voiceyou are.
Caleb Agee (25:45):
Number 10, make sure it grows you in leads or
revenue.
Has some sort of businessobjective that happens.
And number 11, make sure itgrows you in leads or revenue.
Has some sort of businessobjective that happens.
Brandon Welch (25:51):
And number 11, know who to call or what to do
when something breaks.
Hey, we care so much about youguys.
We are trying to grow as manysmall businesses around America
as we can.
That's why we're here everyMonday.
We don't get paid for this.
We are declining theadvertising opportunities coming
our way, because that's notwhat this is about.
the advertising opportunitiescoming our way, because that's
not what this is about.
This is about real Americanentrepreneurs and growing these
(26:14):
little companies into big dreamsand making a huge impact on
your community and for yourpeople, and then for your family
and your life.
And we just get super, superwigged out, excited about that
for you.
That's why we'll be here everyMonday.
Almost two years in the making,we're going to be celebrating
big soon.
Caleb Agee (26:32):
We're coming up coming up on the big one oh big
one hundred episodes, a hundredUm and uh.
Brandon Welch (26:39):
Yeah, we'll be back here every Monday answering
your real life marketingquestions, because we believe
marketers who can't teach youwhy are just a fancy lie.
Have a great week.
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, brandon Welch,and I'm here with Caleb taking a
sabbatical AG.
Caleb Agee (00:15):
Oh.
You know he doesn't tell methese things before we start the
episode.
So I'm always like how do Irespond to what he just called
me?
Where?
Brandon Welch (00:24):
are we going?
Where are we going?
Where are you going?
Yeah, what are you doing?
Or you're not even allowed tosay, are you?
Caleb Agee (00:28):
Sabbatical.
Why Are you not supposed to beable to find me?
Yeah, is that the goal?
Brandon Welch (00:31):
I don't know.
We haven't written the fullrules yet, probably because we
haven't done one, but it is acommitment of ours here that if
you've been at frankenmaven for10 years, you get to leave for a
month.
You get to go on your ownsabbatical your own journey, go
find yourself, go walk about.
Caleb Agee (00:51):
Yeah, go walk about yes, that's what I'm gonna do
walk about the ozark mountainsand uh.
So, if you see, me hitchhiking.
Pick me up, yeah, give me alittle ride yeah, he's got one
up.
Yes, you'll know because hewon't be here for four weeks,
unless we get way ahead ofschedule.
Maybe, we might it could happen.
Brandon Welch (01:12):
Crazier things have happened.
Yeah, hey, this is the placewhere we help you eliminate
waste and advertising, grow yourbusiness and achieve the big
dream and boy sabbatical, bigdreams that's pretty cool.
If you're not doing that inyour company.
You maybe should.
I think we heard We'll let youknow how it goes.
Caleb Agee (01:27):
Yeah, we'll let you know.
In a talk last week we heardthat only I think it's 17% of
companies have a sabbaticalprogram of any kind.
Brandon Welch (01:35):
Yeah.
Caleb Agee (01:37):
But the benefits of it are tremendous.
Yes, not even just for theperson who leaves, but also for
the organization, because of thesuccession planning and the
extra coverage you have to buildin while you're gone and then
when you come back.
Yes, that's not what we'retalking about today.
Brandon Welch (01:53):
It's not but.
I did want to highlight it,instead of just saying you're
going on one, you should do ittoo, yes, for yourself or your
team members, but today we aregoing to we're going to focus on
this eliminate waste, becausethere are so many of you doing
awesome, wonderful things, andthe front-facing part of any
business arguably even morefront-facing than your own
(02:15):
building or your people is thesalesman that happens in your
sleep and that is your website.
That's right and we don't haveto tell you that a good website
is a good thing to do.
But we have encountered so manypeople over the years and,
frankly, we're right, smack dabin the middle of some right now
who have gone through theagonizing process of rebuilding
a website.
(02:35):
And it is agonizing and it isexpensive and to do it well, it
just takes a lot of work.
I mean well over 100 hours inmost cases for our team.
So we're working on somebody'swebsite for potentially two or
three months.
But there are some cautionarytales we've gathered over the
years and we're like, hey, whatif we could save our people from
(02:59):
going through these things.
And it doesn't mean thateverybody building a website is
trying to take advantage of youor mislead you, but there are a
lot of talented people who aretalented at one part of it.
And there's just some thingswe've learned after managing,
building, owning, inheritinghundreds of websites.
(03:20):
I mean I'd say we're in the 300to 400 website territory easy at
any given time, like in ourpossession, and so you wearing
all the hats that you wear inyour business.
It's not your job to be anexpert web developer.
That's why you would hire one.
However, we're going to teachyou how to hire one and ask the
right questions.
That will save you so manyhours and frustrations later, so
(03:42):
that you're you're all prepared.
Caleb Agee (03:44):
Yeah, I'm especially passionate about this one
because, uh, a lot of peopledon't know, but I'm a nerd and,
uh, I came here as a webdeveloper.
Brandon Welch (03:53):
We couldn't tell by looking at you yeah, as if
yeah, uh.
Caleb Agee (03:57):
I'm not wearing my glasses today.
Brandon Welch (03:58):
It's true.
Caleb Agee (03:59):
Somebody else is.
Brandon Welch (03:59):
That's true.
Caleb Agee (04:00):
I'm just saying, Um, but yeah, we want to make sure
you're prepared if you do decideto rebuild your website or get
somebody involved in helping youupdate it or whatever that
looks like Today.
We have 11 things to knowbefore rebuilding your website,
and we're going to get rightinto it.
Brandon Welch (04:18):
Yeah, number one, I can't believe this still
happens.
But it should go without sayingask who owns this website once
it's built.
The olden days, this happened alot.
People would build yousomething and they would hold
the keys to the castle.
Yeah, it was so rampant.
(04:38):
At one point One of our piecesof copy we said about ourselves
is we.
One of our core values is thatwe would never let your website
be held hostage by nerds.
People are more smarter thanthey used to be, so less people
get away with that.
But you do need to ask who ownsthe server.
Like is this the?
Is this your own instance of anAmazon server or a virtual
(05:03):
server that you have thecredentials, or is it built and
hosted on somebody else's server?
Yeah, and who owns this?
Yeah, go ahead.
The other side, the other sideof that is.
Caleb Agee (05:14):
There are these, you know, managed platforms like
Squarespace or Duda or Webflow.
There are tons of these.
Wix, godaddy has their own.
There are bunches of them.
What I'd make sure you know isyour agency can build that under
their account, and some ofthose have a way where it's
under their account like as anumbrella, and then you have a
(05:36):
client server that's yours.
Brandon Welch (05:38):
Or you have access to it.
Right, you have access to it,but you don't technically own it
, yeah, and then sometimes youdon't own it.
Caleb Agee (05:43):
So if you said, hey, you're fired, I want my website
, let's go.
It's a whole deal to pick it upand move it.
Yes, it's not just a transferof ownership.
So you want to make?
Sure that if you're going tolet them hold it, because that
may be more convenient orhelpful or whatever that is.
(06:04):
That's fine, as long as it'seasy for you to get a hold of it
and that you know it's yours inthe end.
Brandon Welch (06:12):
And if they die, get hit by a bus or whatever
that scenario is like, how doyou get a hold of it?
Caleb Agee (06:17):
Yeah, that's a big deal.
Along with that is your domainand then obviously access to
edit it.
So I would mostly recommendthat you have your domain in
your own account.
So your domain is your URL.
So frankandmavencom is ourdomain name.
We own that in a GoDaddyaccount.
(06:38):
It may be Network Solutions, itmay be whatever what you want
to make sure is when you boughtthe domain.
That you buy it and you own it,Not that your agency owns it,
because it's again harder totransfer.
It takes about seven days totransfer from one place to the
other.
That's kind of rough.
Brandon Welch (06:57):
Nobody ever gets around to it until it's too late
and somebody like really needsaccess to it.
Yeah, over the years we've doneit out of convenience for folks
.
And then, you know, at theworst possible time they're like
I need my domain and we're like, okay, we'll do it, but it's
going to take three days.
We would never hold it hostage.
I want to say that clearly.
But yeah, buy it in your ownaccount and then give them
(07:18):
access to it.
Super big clarity.
Your domain is sort of likeowning your address.
It just tells the internetwhere to point to find your
website.
So if it's frankenmavencom,just because we had control of
our domain doesn't necessarilymean we have control of our
website and all the code and thepictures and the development of
(07:39):
that.
So you want to make sure youreally have access to both Yep.
Caleb Agee (07:45):
Number two Ask is it being built for speed and SEO
or just to look cool?
Brandon Welch (07:55):
Nothing wrong with a cool looking website.
You ought to have one.
Caleb Agee (07:58):
Is it built to?
You know, convert?
Is it functional and pretty?
Is it so?
You need to know that you'rebridging the gap between
multiple things here, becausethat is what a website has to do
.
It has to rank well, whichsometimes you're you're you're
trending toward appeasing robots, it seems like, and the copy
(08:19):
can start to sound a littlerobotic or whatever.
It needs to look beautiful forthe people who look at it.
But then, it also needs to befunctional.
It needs to sell, it needs toconvert.
It needs to be more than abrochure that you have on your
website.
Brandon Welch (08:37):
So we've encountered a lot of beautiful
websites that were getting 2% 3%conversion rates and ranking
horribly on Google.
I've seen one recently that wasa really good example of that,
and it's just because it wasprobably more of a graphic
designer that built it and madesomething beautiful instead of
making it technically sound.
So ideally that's probably twodifferent skill sets on the team
(08:59):
.
Some people can pull off both,but or maybe if you're using a
template, you can kind of getsome of the cool factor.
Yeah, you know, built in, Iguess, but just make sure you're
asking that question, yeah.
Caleb Agee (09:11):
And sniff out whether or not they bend toward
one direction or the other.
Yeah, that's what you want tofeel.
Brandon Welch (09:16):
Along those lines of the pretty game.
This is number three.
Know that design does not equalstrategy.
Caleb Agee (09:25):
Love this one.
Brandon Welch (09:26):
Yeah.
So just because it again,because it looks cool, doesn't
mean that it's marketingfriendly, it doesn't mean that
it's actually promoting yourproduct.
And what I would say is you,being the product owner or the
service owner or the businessowner, are going to fill in gaps
that no other human beingthat's a potential customer are
(09:46):
going to be able to fill in,meaning you're going to look at
it and go, oh yeah, it's perfectbecause you know everything
about your product.
But there's often some reallyobvious stuff missing out of
website copy that could bearound your sales process, that
could be around values.
That could be around likewhat's the dang outcome?
Like sell the result.
We talk about that in the MavenMarketer, know what you're
(10:08):
really selling, and so almostalways, uh, I can think of one
guy who's like equally good atwriting copy and strategy as he
is at designing.
Um, he's actually probablystill a better writer than he is
a designer, but he makes coolstuff and you just just know
that, just because you like theway it looks, you need to put it
(10:29):
through third party eyes andsay what am I selling here?
Yeah, uncover the gaps.
Caleb Agee (10:34):
Yep.
So just be careful.
The mock-up might be gorgeousand it might be a billion times
looking better looking than whatyou have today, but you need to
make sure that also what itsays and where it leads the
customers, that it speaks totheir needs, pains, hopes and
fears, and you walk throughtheir psychology, you walk
through what they're thinkingand your brand phrases and
(10:56):
you're working all of that inbecause you're investing in
tomorrow marketing.
There needs to be a resoundingreminder of that as well.
So all of those things thatdeveloper you just kind of hire,
if they're not your agencyright now, they're just going to
kind of go in their owndirection and you could have
some disparity between all ofthat.
Brandon Welch (11:13):
A great framework to get that messaging stuff out
is the messaging framework inFrank and Maven.
It's who you're talking to.
What are their needs, pains,hopes, fears.
How does your product satisfythat and what's the most
reasonable next step for action?
Like that flow would be reallygood because it takes people
from emotional to logic toemotional to logic.
Then you get him to act on thatand that's that you want to
just do basic, basic psychologyof buying.
(11:35):
That's what we do.
Caleb Agee (11:36):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (11:36):
We use logic to justify our emotions, so you
want to do that in your website,number four.
Caleb Agee (11:43):
Number four is ask will this site be easy to update
after we launch it, or am Igoing to have to hire you every
single time to make the tiniestchange in the world?
Brandon Welch (11:54):
There are some knuckleheads out there that
build websites on this businessmodel that you're always going
to need them, and so they holdyou hostage and they build stuff
in such a nerdy way.
That's not intuitive, and inthis day and age there used to
be a.
There used to be sort of atechnical knowledge ante that
you just had to have to doanything with the website.
Caleb Agee (12:13):
It's kind of gone.
It's not true anymore.
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (12:15):
Right now, most of you listening should be able
to log on and edit your ownwebsite if you want to.
Now, you might still choose tohire somebody or employ somebody
.
Caleb Agee (12:22):
Yeah, your time may be more valuable than learning
that, right, but that's fine.
Brandon Welch (12:27):
But when you fire somebody and you got to get
them off the website thisweekend because they're a
liability, you shouldn't bewaiting around on some nerd to
get around to you to be able todo that.
Yeah, you should be able to dothat.
Caleb Agee (12:37):
I also believe you know, by the way, we manage
websites and we have.
You know we have them, but it'snot in the client's best
interest for them to have tocall us and then to get into our
workflow, which may be maybetoday, but likely it's, you know
, friday that they're going toget this update done, but they
need it done now.
(12:58):
And so if they have the keys andthey have the ability to do it
now, let's go.
And uh, that saves everybody,you know.
Three emails and fourclarifying questions.
It's so much more efficient foreverybody.
Yeah, um, and the developerthat that holds you hostage in
that situation.
Even if they're making 300bucks an hour, it's still not
(13:19):
worth the time.
Brandon Welch (13:19):
So Exactly, uh, with that um.
Number five is ask what happensafter the launch of this
website.
Who trains us, um, to be ableto do all these edits and to
know where everything is and tomake sure you have ownership and
to make sure you can writestuff on the site, and all of
that?
You need some basic training,especially if it's a new
(13:42):
platform that you're not used to, and so we have, like a
handover process here thatbasically says here's your new
car and here are the keys, andhere's how you set the radio and
all that stuff, except for it'snot a car, it's a website,
caleb.
Caleb Agee (13:53):
It's a website.
That's right.
Brandon Welch (13:54):
See what I did there.
I like it, yeah.
So just ask that.
I think it's prettystraightforward, but who's going
to train us?
How long is that going to takeand what's?
Caleb Agee (14:06):
your estimate for how long before we can be making
our own edits to this thing?
Yep Is, custom code equalscustom problems.
I love this one because, um, in, as we just mentioned, all of
these sites should have somesort of page builder or some
sort of easy to use builder ofsome sort.
And, um, if they are, ifthey're using a, a builder like
(14:32):
uh, like WordPress has several,or Squarespace, but then they
custom code every single pieceof it, you are going to have to
know where all that code liesand know how to read it and
change it.
Just to do the smallest thingson your website, I have at times
seen websites done where it wasliterally done in a drag and
(14:55):
drop builder, but and they usedsome of the elements from the
drag and drop builder, but theyapplied custom code to every
single piece of it.
So to change it, you had to goto five places and change code
everywhere, and that's not goodfor the you.
It's not good for the you know,for the ease of use and
updating it.
So, um, unless you havesomething really complex, they
should err on the side of usingthat page builder.
(15:17):
They should use that drag anddrop thing so that later, when
you need to change a picture.
It's two clicks and you got it,and that's really really
dangerous if you're looking atsomebody who just custom codes
every single thing.
Brandon Welch (15:30):
Yeah, love it.
Yeah, love it.
Yeah, there's probablysomething already built unless
you're really really weird thatyou can use.
Yeah, I will add that it's.
Yes, it's a little bitcapitalistic to have to pay
somebody a subscription to usesomething that's already built,
such as, like, for your shippingor for your lead curation or
your CRM or whatever.
(15:51):
But because they have the moneybeing supported, they can
afford to constantly update it.
Caleb Agee (15:58):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (15:59):
You may, you probably don't want to bear that
burden of constantly paying toupdate your custom solution.
That's right, that's right, allright, number seven hey, can I
see three recent websites you'vebuilt, and can I talk to those
clients about their process?
Man, this would clear a lot ofmissteps out of the way.
There's this allure when you'retalking to a nerd.
(16:24):
When they're talking aboutthings you don't know how to
talk about, that, you justassume that they're an expert.
That does not mean that they'regood at customer service.
That does not mean that they'regood at time management.
That does not mean that they'regood at customer service.
That does not mean that they'regood at time management.
That does not mean that they'regood at design.
That does not mean that they'requalified to make you happy.
Probably only past clients cangive you an honest assessment
and I would say this I probablywouldn't have said this early in
(16:45):
my career but if they don'thave those, expect to hire them
at a discount, because it's abigger risk to you.
If they're building theirportfolio, to hire them at a
discount because it's a biggerrisk to you If they're building
their portfolio.
Just be like hey, I like youand I want to trust you, but I
don't think I can pay you thesame as I would pay somebody
who's done this a hundred timesbecause you don't have that
under your belt, that's right.
So you might call some of theirrecent clients and say did they
(17:07):
finish on time?
Did they stay on budget?
Were they easy to work with?
Are you enjoying your new site?
How are your search enginerankings?
Did your conversion rateimprove?
How's the lead flow of yourbusiness right now?
Like, just figure out, did theyhave the stuff or they didn't?
Caleb Agee (17:21):
Yes, number eight.
Number eight Ask what's thetimeline and what happens if you
miss it.
Everyone knows when you call acontractor, you automatically
expect to add what 25 to 50% onthe timeline they give you.
Brandon Welch (17:37):
I call it the 20% rule.
Caleb Agee (17:39):
And, unfortunately, web developers have a very
similar um you know reality orabout them, and so what we want
to make sure is that they'vestated out loud what they expect
, like what kind of timelinethey expect us to do.
That tells you whether or notthey have a process that they
follow or if they're kind ofmeandering into getting websites
(18:01):
done.
Brandon Welch (18:01):
Let me let the nerds off the hook for a second
Cause.
A lot of times you're thereason it didn't get done on
time.
Caleb Agee (18:07):
Client, you are the you are the reason.
Brandon Welch (18:15):
You are the client yeah, not the web
developer, not Caleb.
Yeah, you are the reason.
Yeah, a lot of times it's you.
You didn't get back to them,you were on vacation, you didn't
quite know how to articulatesomething, you couldn't have
time on your schedule to tellthem what changes you wanted,
and so we always make thatdisclaimer that if you give us
this feedback by this date,We'll be on track.
We'll be on track.
If you don't, you know whatever.
(18:36):
You missed it, plus add a fewdays because it takes us to get
back in our workflow that way.
So, and then I would say whathappens if you miss it.
I would just make sure thatthey have a protocol.
Okay, at 60 days, no matterwhat, we will have a check-in
and we will give you the list ofwhat's left to do.
We'll have a punch list.
I think that would be the mostreasonable thing.
(18:58):
I don't know that it's wise tolike say, oh, we're going to
give you a discount or whatever.
Now I would not pay until Iwouldn't pay the final payment.
Until it's done, we usuallybreak ours up into two or three
payments, so final payment iswhen it's live and the world can
visit it.
Yeah, but yeah, just make sureyou've got checkpoints in.
That would be probably thehealthiest thing.
(19:24):
Number nine know your developeris not your brand voice.
So we talked about messagingand marketing, but this is also
website copy.
Even if you think, oh, this guywill just look at the rest of
(19:58):
my website and he'll know whatto do.
He doesn't highly technicalexpert that can code and think
in terms of development language.
I'm not saying they can'tcoexist, but I don't see it very
often, and so you don't justneed good design, you don't just
need good strategy, you alsoneed really good copy and
messaging, and so that might bea third force within those
people working on your team.
Any established web developeris going to know that about
themselves, and they're going tohave somebody that is
specifically on staff for a copy, and I would maybe ask who's
(20:19):
going to be writing this?
Caleb Agee (20:20):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (20:21):
Yeah, make sense.
Caleb Agee (20:22):
Yep, I agree.
Number 10, ask how will thiswebsite generate more leads or
revenue?
Brandon Welch (20:29):
It's probably the first thing you should ask,
yeah Is, should we even do this?
Is this solving a real businessobjective or do we just kind of
sort of feel like we'd like tosee a new website?
Caleb Agee (20:38):
Yeah, um, that that is obviously at the end of the
day.
Um, it's that businessobjective.
If they, if they lean on design, if they lean on technical
prowess, if they lean on um someplatform or tool or whatever
that is, but they don't talkabout the business reality of
you getting more leads and salesand therefore revenue, or maybe
(21:01):
sales online, because it'se-com or whatever, and therefore
revenue, then your businessscoreboard is not going up and
you're investing tens ofthousands of dollars into
something that will not pay off.
Brandon Welch (21:12):
Amen to that.
So, there you go.
They should have an answer forthat.
They should, and if they don't,if you're not confident in that
, it's probably not the rightperson.
Caleb Agee (21:20):
It's probably no go.
Brandon Welch (21:23):
Last question, number 11.
What happens when somethingbreaks and it's going to break
folks?
Let me just let the nerds offthe hook again.
If something breaks, thatdoesn't mean you've got a bad
website.
If something breaks, thatdoesn't mean that you didn't get
your money's worth.
If something breaks, that meansthat the internet is doing.
What the internet will alwaysdo is that it will advance.
New browsers come out, newiPhones come out, new security
(21:47):
protocols come out, new thingscome out with servers and the
way IP services are handledinternet providers and so it's
going to break.
It's just what happens, and howdo we plan for that?
Caleb Agee (21:59):
Yeah, so I always make the comparison to your car.
Right.
If you don't watch or take careof or maintain your car, nate
the camera guy is the mostparticular car owner.
Brandon Welch (22:14):
I have ever seen.
He's the Gen Z shade treemechanic.
Caleb Agee (22:19):
He checks his oil every time he puts gas in it,
just like he's supposed to Justlike we're all supposed to he
pulls out that dipstick.
Nobody else I know ever ischecking the oil.
Brandon Welch (22:27):
Let me just tell you he drives a fancy reliable
car.
It's not because it's a clunker, it's not because it needs to,
it's because he takes pride.
He takes great pride.
Caleb Agee (22:36):
Is it a year old?
Yet A year and a half old.
It's a brand new car basically.
And he's checking the oil everysingle time, and it's a car
that will go abuse his make ofcar.
He's a toyota man yeah and youcould probably still get 150 000
you pour you pour concrete inthe gas tank it probably still
go another 100 miles on.
(22:56):
Yeah, so, um, but if he doesn't, he will take good care of it.
If you don't take care of yourwebsite, or if your developer or
whoever's maintaining yourwebsite, doesn't take care of it
, um, you don't get those oilchanges if you don't change the
tires.
It's gonna.
There are foreign objects thatwill cause your tires to pop.
There are things that on theinside of your car that will
(23:17):
cause it to malfunction, andthat's the same thing is true on
your website.
There are things inside yourwebsite that will the little
ghosts and the bugs that'llhappen.
Um, that looks like plugins andthemes.
Um, something we were talkingabout before is, uh, like, with
WordPress, you have to you paylicense fees for plugins and
themes.
(23:37):
Um, I would recommend you payfor those client like, not the
developer, cause what thedeveloper is going to do is
they're going to pay for it thatfirst year and then, if you're
not actively paying them in thefuture, when the annual
subscription comes up, they'llprobably let it lapse, and then
your plugins are getting out oftime and therefore vulnerable.
(23:57):
And you've got security issuesor you've got update issues and
the site might crash.
So it's not hard to getsomething that will protect it
from robots or attackers.
It's not hard to get somethingthat will back it up every
single morning or night.
And when it blows up, firstthing you can do usually is like
well, let's revert it toyesterday's copy and then figure
(24:20):
out what happened so we canstop it from happening tomorrow.
Brandon Welch (24:23):
And put a maintenance budget in your mind,
or just your marketing budget.
You might spend big money tobuild a site this year, spend
another couple grand next yeardoing updates.
I'm not talking about justregular content, I'm just saying
have it either a goodmaintenance plan with your
developer, or just say, hey, weknow every year we're going to
(24:44):
have a little project that'sjust going to be updating,
refreshing and that's good formarketing too.
Just like you wouldn't leaveyour storefront the same forever
, you would merchandise and movethings around.
You need to do that too, yeah.
So hey, let's do a quick recap.
One make sure you own yourwebsite, or you know who owns it
.
Caleb Agee (25:03):
Don't settle for just a design-only website.
Make sure it's going to sell.
Brandon Welch (25:07):
Yep Definitely understand that you need a
skilled messaging and strategyperson.
That's number three.
Caleb Agee (25:13):
Number four make sure you can edit it.
Brandon Welch (25:16):
Yep Number five make sure you get the training
to edit it, to be able to editit.
Caleb Agee (25:21):
Number six make sure your developer is not going to
custom code the whole freakingthing.
Brandon Welch (25:25):
Or anything if possible.
Yeah, Number seven is talk toreal past clients and get
referrals and a real good ideaif you're working with because
you're going to be workingclosely together.
Caleb Agee (25:34):
Number eight lock in .
Get clear on a timeline.
Brandon Welch (25:37):
Number nine do not let somebody else influence
your brand just because they'rebuilding your new website.
They're not your brand voiceyou are.
Caleb Agee (25:45):
Number 10, make sure it grows you in leads or
revenue.
Has some sort of businessobjective that happens.
And number 11, make sure itgrows you in leads or revenue.
Has some sort of businessobjective that happens.
Brandon Welch (25:51):
And number 11, know who to call or what to do
when something breaks.
Hey, we care so much about youguys.
We are trying to grow as manysmall businesses around America
as we can.
That's why we're here everyMonday.
We don't get paid for this.
We are declining theadvertising opportunities coming
our way, because that's notwhat this is about.
the advertising opportunitiescoming our way, because that's
not what this is about.
This is about real Americanentrepreneurs and growing these
(26:14):
little companies into big dreamsand making a huge impact on
your community and for yourpeople, and then for your family
and your life.
And we just get super, superwigged out, excited about that
for you.
That's why we'll be here everyMonday.
Almost two years in the making,we're going to be celebrating
big soon.
Caleb Agee (26:32):
We're coming up coming up on the big one oh big
one hundred episodes, a hundredUm and uh.
Brandon Welch (26:39):
Yeah, we'll be back here every Monday answering
your real life marketingquestions, because we believe
marketers who can't teach youwhy are just a fancy lie.
Have a great week.
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