August 21, 2025 • 28 mins
CPC, CPL, CTR, CPM… confused yet? You’re not alone.
Most business owners are tired of data nerds throwing around acronyms that don’t actually explain if their ads are making money.
In this episode, Brandon and Caleb “de-nerdify” digital marketing and break down the only 5 metrics you really need to watch to know if your campaigns are profitable.
No fluff. No buzzwords. Just the truth.
Here’s what we cover:
- What impressions actually mean (and when they don’t matter)
- The click-through rate benchmarks that separate good ads from bad ones
- Cost-per-click: what’s normal, what’s not, and how competition drives it up
- Conversion rates—and why anything below 5% is a red flag
- The cost-per-lead number that tells you instantly if you’re making money or burning it
If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by marketing reports that sound like Charlie Brown’s teacher, this episode is your shortcut to clarity.
Maven Marketing Mastermind → https://www.mavenmethodtraining.com
Our Website: https://frankandmaven.com/
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Twitter: / frankandmaven
LinkedIn: / frank-and-maven
Host: Brandon Welch
Co-Host: Caleb Agee
Executive Producer: Carter Breaux
Audio/Video Producer: Nate the Camera Guy
Do you have a marketing problem you'd like us to help solve? Send it to MavenMonday@FrankandMaven.com!
Get a copy of our Best-Selling Book, The Maven Marketer Here:
https://a.co/d/1clpm8a
Do you have a marketing problem you'd like us to help solve? Send it to MavenMonday@FrankandMaven.com!
Get a copy of our Best-Selling Book, The Maven Marketer Here:
https://a.co/d/1clpm8a
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandon Welch (00:07):
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm here with Caleb, give us
your back-to-school advice,Agee.
Caleb Agee (00:16):
Oh, my back-to-school advice Pack a
good lunch.
Brandon Welch (00:20):
Pack a good lunch .
Caleb Agee (00:22):
Yeah, I always bring my lunch, that's what dreams
are made of.
Brandon Welch (00:24):
That's right, we are fully back in school mode.
Actually, we have nothing to dowith it.
Our wives are leading amazingthings in our homes for the
eight homeschoolers we have inour possession and if you are
also back to school, your kidsare back to school we say
congratulations and with thatlet's get nerdy today.
Actually, let's de-nerd, deAlways say congratulations and
(00:45):
with that let's get nerdy.
Today, actually, let's de-nerd,de-nerd, de-nerdify.
Do you like that transition,de-nerd?
So if you are in any form ofconversation about digital
advertising, you are going tohear some stuff that is just
often going to go in one ear andout the other lot of
well-meaning nerds who areeither trying to sell you
something or get excited aboutsomething, and they're going to
(01:06):
throw out things like CPC andCPL and CTRs and CPM and all of
those nerdy-sounding thingsaround digital advertising and
it's like you would love to care.
I'm sure, yeah, but if you'relike most business owners?
In fact, a recent survey foundthat 68 of small business owners
(01:27):
are overwhelmed by digitalmarketing terminology and half
admit they don't understand howto evaluate their campaign
performance yeah.
Caleb Agee (01:34):
And the danger is you sit across from this person
and they're like, hey, we justgot you a, and they start
sounding exactly like theparents on Charlie.
Brandon Welch (01:44):
Brown.
Caleb Agee (01:45):
And then they lean back and smile as if you should
be throwing a party.
Brandon Welch (01:51):
And you're like.
Well, they're younger than meand they're smarter than me.
Caleb Agee (01:54):
Wow, that sounds good.
They know how to do stuff, onthings.
Brandon Welch (01:57):
And so you know it must be good so this will be
your reference episode.
Caleb Agee (02:01):
We're going to try to keep it short and simple and
clean and you can come back andsay well, at least these terms I
understand and I know how toask the questions around them.
Brandon Welch (02:11):
Wise man said once son, don't tell me how the
clock is built, just tell me thetime.
We're going to teach you how totell the time on your ad
performance.
And here it goes.
There's five metrics.
We're going to coverimpressions, what that means, uh
, click through rates, cost perclick, conversion rate and,
ultimately, cost per lead.
(02:32):
These are really the only onesyou need to know and ask about,
and often, too often, these arethe ones that the the nerds
actually don't want to tell youabout, because they're the ones
that may be, um, revealing somebad performance Could be moving
in the wrong direction.
Caleb Agee (02:50):
So quick, number one what is an impression, caleb?
An impression is really.
Some eyeballs have seen yourads.
A set of eyeballs, hopefully,unless it's a pirate.
Brandon Welch (02:58):
Maybe they've got like a patch on or something
like that One person or twopirates have seen your ad for
one impression and it just meansyour ad was seen.
It was seen Practically onGoogle.
That means it displayed ifsomebody searched it or on a
webpage.
The display ad showed up in theviewing window of the person.
Caleb Agee (03:17):
On Facebook it showed up in the news feed or
the reel, Any social media,YouTube, all of those it means
essentially it was seen, yeah,and so somebody's going.
Brandon Welch (03:25):
Well, how many impressions do I need In a
month's time?
There are a lot of peopleselling 10 or 50,000 impressions
, or a very relatively smallnumber of impressions.
I'm going to say if you're inany local market and you want
digital ads to make any sort ofmeaningful impression, you need
(03:49):
a bare minimum of 200,000 in 30days.
So anything under that,especially if it's display
related like Facebook or Googledisplay related, it's just not
really going to move any sort ofneedle of relevancy or recall
if you're not at least in thecouple hundred thousand
territory.
Yeah, but so don't get excitedabout, oh, 10,000 impressions.
Caleb Agee (04:10):
Yeah, don't get so excited.
This is the number that's goingto be the biggest number,
because it's how far you went.
It's all of that.
And just because you hadimpressions doesn't mean they
were impressed.
Yeah, impressed with your ad.
And the next one we're going totalk about is click-through
rate, or it's sometimes calledCTR.
Yes, you'll hear this a lot.
Brandon Welch (04:31):
This is where you really know the value of that
impression.
Yes, so your ad showed up andit's like who cares?
Well, the people that clickedon it cared, hopefully.
Right, if we're talking aboutsearch, there are sort of some
benchmarks about search.
Yeah, there, there are sort ofsome benchmarks.
Um, in google search ads wewant to see at least a three
percent click-through rate onthe ad.
That is, that's probably bareminimum.
(04:52):
I would say our ads are morethan five to eight percent
because we're really obsessedover the copy we're writing.
But in a in a broad, justdefinition, it's like how many
people cared?
What percentage of people caredenough to click on the ad?
Caleb Agee (05:06):
Yep, and so it's expressly, or the math, for it
is impressions how many peoplesaw it divided by how many
people clicked on?
Brandon Welch (05:16):
it.
Yes, selling lawnmowers, and Iwant to bid on the keyword
lawnmowers and people searchlawnmowers.
That's going to be a higherpercentage than people who are
just randomly coming by aFacebook ad or see a display ad
on a website.
So let's call it five to 8% isgood on search Like.
If you're below that, I promiseyou you could be doing better.
(05:38):
Something is often eitheryou're bidding on the wrong
keywords or the ad just was notas snazzy or appealing, or
didn't have a clear offer ordidn't have a clear promise in
the text.
Again, thinking on searchengine pages, as maybe the ads
around, it.
Caleb Agee (05:53):
I'm going to bet that if you get a Google Ads
report from your data nerd andthey show you click-through
rates or CTRs that are lowerthan that, they're not just
running search ads.
They are probably running aperformance max campaign or some
sort of discovery Kill it.
Brandon Welch (06:07):
Kill it now, and you need to ask that question.
Caleb Agee (06:09):
What kind of campaigns are we running?
Are these search only ads?
And that will stop the madnessas quickly as possible, because
that means you're showingdisplay ads and video ads and
all these other things that youdon't care to show.
Brandon Welch (06:18):
So, just for super clarity, click-through
rates like, if you're on search,5% to 8% look for that.
Anything below that startasking questions On Facebook.
If you're doing lead generationads on Facebook and you give
them a really good reason toclick such as an offer or a
coupon or a fill the form outyou want to see at least a 1%
link click-through rate.
Do not let a Facebook nerd giveyou a total click-through rate.
(06:41):
You want link click-throughs.
Facebook will count the numberof clicks and the times people
clicked on the picture and itdoesn't really matter.
What you want is how manypeople actually clicked through
on the offer, went to the nextpage, went to the next page.
That's a 1% or better onFacebook.
Anything below 1%, you could bewriting better ad copy and then
on display ads like we don't doa bunch of display ads just for
(07:03):
the record.
But if you are doing that andyou're going, what is good?
Because they've been talking tome about my click-through rates
0.2, 0.3, 0.2%, 0.2%, 0.2% yeah.
Yes, not 0.02, but 0.2% ondisplay ads.
And you have to think peopleare trying to read their news
and they're not trying to justgo click on some random ad.
Now, it doesn't mean that addidn't have any value from a
(07:25):
brand or recall standpoint.
It just means that if it didn'tget at least 0.2% 0.3%
click-through rates, it's farbelow what the norm is and it
means you should be getting abigger fair share of clicks.
So 5% to 8% on search engine,1% link click through rate on
meta like facebook, instagram,and then on display ads, 0.2 0.3
(07:47):
percent.
Uh, anything below that.
You could be doing better withyour message and you it's a
pretty good cue that the ad isjust not relevant enough for the
audience.
Yeah, that was click throughrate.
Um, this is easy.
This next one is cost per click.
Uh, there are a lot of ways tomeasure the cost and sort of
efficiency per campaign, but wewanted to throw this one in
(08:08):
there because somebody couldtalk to you about well, you got
586 clicks or a 0.2%click-through rate and it's like
okay, but what did they cost me?
Let's just start with search,because that's where cost per
click kind of varies the most bythe way they'll say CPC a lot.
Cpc is the abbreviation, so costper click not to be confused
(08:30):
with cost per conversion,correct?
I hear a lot of peopleinterchange clicks and
conversion and that's just youdon't want to do that.
Caleb Agee (08:36):
You got to be careful with CPC.
Brandon Welch (08:37):
Make sure you define the last C, the click
just means they clicked on thead and they got to your landing
page.
It does not mean they became acustomer.
It does not mean they becamewhat we're going to call a
conversion in a minute.
It just means they clicked onthe ad and so you want to see on
search a really low cost perclick, and it's driven by
(09:00):
competition usually, but areally low cost per click is
probably $2 to $5.
And Google search and.
Google search ads On our morecompetitive categories.
Think home improvement, thinkattorneys, think commoditized
services that have high valueinsurance, you could literally
be in the $10 to $50 range forsome attorney-driven stuff.
(09:21):
I've seen it in the $50 to $100range Easily In big markets.
Caleb Agee (09:25):
That's per click.
So you ran an ad and to getthat click you paid $50 or $5.
It could be any end of thatspectrum.
Brandon Welch (09:35):
Yes, so when you've got this, when you've got
a high cost per click, itbasically raises the stakes for
everything else, because if thecompetition level just required
a really high cost per click,you really have to do really
good on this next metric, whichis conversion rate.
But a couple of otherbenchmarks on meta man, anything
(09:59):
in the dollar range is solid onmeta for a cost per click.
And then on display ads, gosh,it should be pennies.
Like, yeah, it should bepennies.
Caleb Agee (10:07):
Pennies because you should be getting a lot of
display um impressions for thedollar you're spending and, for
the record, cpc also used to bekind of a term that people used
for google search ads as well orppc pay-per-click and so, um,
pay attention to that.
Google ads you don't actuallypay until they click.
(10:29):
Yeah, um, a lot of other, mostother ad platforms anymore are
more impression based.
So it's it's based on you knowthe people they show the ad to,
but google and you know bing adsor whatever, are still caught,
or ppc, and it's based on this.
Cost per click is actually whenyou pay.
Yes, that's when the money isgetting charged to your name.
Brandon Welch (10:51):
Yes, and last thing I would say on that is
just if you're feeling thingsare off, you're not getting the
volume, you feel like you'respending a good couple grand a
month at least on Meta or Searchand you're going, I'm not
feeling it.
Ask, hey dude, what's my costper click?
(11:11):
And if he's like, oh, it's 50,you're like, oh well, that's why
, because maximum you're notgoing to get that many clicks,
yeah, um, you can just dividethat by your budget.
It's going to run out reallyfast yeah, if it was two grand,
you'd get 40 clicks for thatright.
So, and yeah, and so we'regoing to go on to conversion
rate.
This is simply the rate atwhich that click converts into
(11:34):
the action you want, and we'regoing to suggest that you, for
sake of performance measurement,you have that either as a lead
generation form.
So somebody who you know wanteda price on a new roof.
They clicked on your roofing adand then they went to your site
and filled out theirinformation and said, please
give me a price.
Yeah.
Caleb Agee (11:53):
Schedule a consultation or yep.
Brandon Welch (11:56):
Or they called you.
Like you can do some calltracking with either CallRail or
the built-in call tracking onGoogle search ads and you just
want to set some metrics likeonly measure the conversion if
it happened, if the call lastedlike 60 seconds or longer.
Yeah, so when you're looking atthat conversion rate, that's
just simply saying, okay, yougot 100 clicks and let's say you
(12:17):
got a 5% conversion rate.
Well, only five of them turnedinto either a form fill or a
phone call that you could doanything about.
Yeah, the other 95 went to yourwebsite and left.
Yeah, right, so your conversionrate is really the ultimate
leverage on everything.
You can control CPC a littlebit, based on what you decide to
(12:39):
buy or not.
Caleb Agee (12:41):
But that's tough.
That's based on a bidding war,basically Right.
Brandon Welch (12:45):
You can control CTR just by writing better ads,
but none of that matters untilthey convert into like the
person that raises their handand says, hey, let's try to do
some business.
I'd like to do business withyou.
Caleb Agee (12:57):
Yeah, and I think the thing on conversion rate I
want you to pay attention to,just for your safety.
Um, I've seen a lot of Googlead accounts specifically that
are tracking conversions thatare not truly conversions, even
like page view as a conversion.
Or um did maps to your business.
Well, that may, if you're aretail destination, I might, I
(13:19):
might count that, maybe Iwouldn't.
But okay, yeah, I mean I'mtrying to maybe play devil's
advocate here, but most of thetime I don't call.
I don't call that a chance atbusiness.
They just looked up directionsto you and so just pay attention
and say what are theconversions we're talking about?
Make sure it is like a form, acall, or if you're like
e-commerce, it would be like apurchase online.
Brandon Welch (13:38):
Um yep, so to improve in conversion rate.
What's what makes thedifference in a 5% conversion
rate or 10% conversion rate?
By the way, if you don't haveat least a five.
something sucks and you got tofix it.
Any landing page, any homepageof a website, bare minimum 5%.
If your nerd tells you yourconversion rate is lower than 5%
(14:00):
, you have problems with yourwebsite copy or the perceived
value of your offer, and soyou're either not making
something clear enough, you'renot showing enough proof that
you're the one that can do itfor them, so you don't have good
enough pictures and or reviews,um, or you're putting too much
friction on that form you didn'tmake it easy enough I was, or
(14:20):
the form doesn't exist yeah, we,we
kind of consult this week and itwas like somebody that, well,
we're not getting any forms onour website.
And I looked at it.
And it was like somebody that,well, we're not getting any
forms on our website.
And I looked at it and it wasI'm not even kidding you 40
questions to fill out the dangform.
Caleb Agee (14:32):
I'm not doing that.
Brandon Welch (14:33):
By the way, make it like five questions or less.
Make, make, don't just do namephone number email, but do name
phone number phone number emailand like what are you interested
in?
Yeah, A few qualifyingquestions.
A Qualifying questions thattends to bring in the quality of
the lead good enough and thetrust that they're going to get
value from you, while notslowing it down so much that
like screw this.
Caleb Agee (14:53):
I'm just going to call you and it speeds up your
conversation a little bit.
Brandon Welch (14:56):
Right, You're prepared so yeah, so we went all
over the place there.
If we're talking about alanding page or a like a
homepage of a website, that islike where the ad clicked to 5%
bare minimum.
Caleb Agee (15:10):
Guess what At.
Brandon Welch (15:11):
Frank and Maven.
Most of ours are like 10%, 15%,20%.
If you've been doing tomorrowmarketing for a long time, gosh,
we have some that are in the25% to 35% range.
I can think of three right nowthat are easily in that.
That's because people trustthem so much.
We dialed in that landing page.
Think about that.
If you have a 20% conversionrate versus a five, you did four
times the lead volume with thesame budget.
(15:31):
That's right.
Caleb Agee (15:32):
Your budget did not change.
Four times the lead.
Brandon Welch (15:35):
Just because we were getting good with the
messaging.
Go back and listen to some ofthe episodes.
There's an episode called howto Increase your Lead Volume
Without Spending a Penny.
That's a really good one.
Yes, we just talk about how towrite really good, clear landing
pages.
It's actually common sense.
It's the things you want whenyou're clicking on stuff.
You just need to do it for yourown company.
By the way, on Facebook ads, onlead gen campaigns, they don't
(15:58):
give you a flat conversion ratein Facebook, but you can divide
your number of leads you got bythe number of clicks you got or
sorry, yes, number of leads bythe number of clicks you got, or
sorry, yes, number of leads bythe number of clicks, and that
would give you your percentageof conversion.
That's right, and if it's alead gen form, that puppy better
be converting at at least 5%,but it should be 10 plus all day
(16:20):
long.
Caleb Agee (16:22):
By the way, that's a form that keeps them in
Instagram or Facebook, and theyfill it out right on the next
page.
Brandon Welch (16:28):
Yes, so back to you.
You just need to ask your nerddude what's my conversion rate
and if he says anything under 5%, you're like I think I better
get a Maven on this.
Yep, I better submit a questionto MavenMonday at
frankenmavencom and say hey, whyis my conversion rate so low?
Tell me Brandon and Caleb yes,or even better, better.
You know what they could do theycan join the mastermind and
(16:50):
yeah, that's where every otherweek you're getting live support
from Caleb and I and thefrankenmaven team and it's like
bring all this stuff be like,hey, you were talking about
these metrics, yeah, minelooking good, we would love to
have you on the mastermind.
Um, fraction of a fraction of afraction of what it would cost
to hire our team to consult youdirectly or to do the work for
you.
We're teaching you and you getto go do it and take it back to
(17:11):
your ad people and it makeseverything better.
Actually, how did they get tothe Maven Marketing Mastermind?
Caleb Ag (17:19):
MavenMethodTrainingcom .
Brandon Wel (17:20):
MavenMethodTraining .
Sign up for that and startsubmitting your questions after
you're on Last metric, caleb.
Caleb Agee (17:29):
Okay, here it comes.
Last metric is cost per lead.
Now I'm going to be carefulhere, because we abbreviate this
.
We can see CPL we alreadymentioned earlier.
Some people call it cost perconversion and they could
abbreviate that CPC.
That gets confusing.
I've also seen cost peracquisition CPA, not accountant.
Brandon Welch (17:52):
This metric, just really.
It's really what all the otherslead to.
Yes, it's the end result.
It's the lagging result.
Caleb Agee (17:58):
This is really, though, at the bottom line, at
the bottom of the paper.
You know you jump to the backand the bottom corner of the
sheet to see your balance sheeton your P&L, and you know how
you did.
This is the one you want toknow For your marketing metrics
if you're doing any sort oftoday digital marketing.
Cost per lead is the end all.
Brandon Welch (18:19):
It pretty well sets the tone, because all you
got to do from there is set theappointment and close the sale.
Yes, and so if you're dealingwith a $500 cost per lead and
you're only making $1,000 persale, you better be batting at
least a 50% or you're going tobe in the hole big time.
Caleb Agee (18:35):
Yeah, and it's the quickest way to translate your
marketing costs, your marketingefforts, to profitability so
much quicker.
And all these other metrics wetalked about before.
This will affect the CPL costper lead.
Yeah, we talked about before.
This will affect the CPL costper lead.
Yeah, but you need to know whatthis cost per lead is so that
you can do fast math to find outwhether you're making money or
(18:55):
not.
Brandon Welch (18:56):
Really divide your cost per lead by how often
those leads set to anappointment, by how often you
close those sales, and thenyou're going to get how much
marketing cost you're going tohave in that sale.
Yeah, cost per lead is easy.
Caleb Agee (19:06):
It is essentially you take the cost divided by
your total or total amount ofleads.
Brandon Welch (19:12):
Yeah, so if, if you're, if you want to compare
some benchmarks, if you're onGoogle and you're in any of the
home service or professionalservices category, um, anything
from, I would say, 75 to $250 isprobably about average right
now to $250 is probably aboutaverage right now.
Google, google cost per leadshave gone up a ton because look
(19:32):
up the chain, um and Google costper clicks have gone up.
Just the inventory andconversion rates have probably
stayed roughly the same if youhaven't done anything but that
cost per click, just becausethey paid more per click and
then even if it converted at a10% rate, that's just driving
that cost per lead up.
It's just.
They're all ratios, third-grademath.
(19:52):
So, gosh, anything above the$200, $250 range, I'm going like
let's dig a little deeper.
Caleb Agee (20:01):
Well, it's going to be hard.
Depending on your averagecustomer value, it's going to be
hard to make money at thatpoint and your sales close rates
and all of that.
And so you need to know we'rehere to help you eliminate waste
in advertising and grow yourbusiness.
You can't grow a businessunless you be making money, so
we got to make sure that you'remaking money at the end of the
day, and this, this number, willtell you pretty quickly whether
you are or not.
Brandon Welch (20:21):
Yes.
Now the beautiful thing abouteven a high cost per lead on
Google is they tend to be readyto buy because people go to
Google at the finish line.
Caleb Agee (20:30):
They're going.
Brandon Welch (20:30):
Hey, I'm ready to take the action.
So those will have on averagefor us.
If you're a service-basedbusiness, 60% to 70% appointment
set rate, maybe even higher,but you can take 65% to the bank
.
And then how good are yoursalespeople?
Yes, so $100 cost per leaddivided by a 50% appointment set
(20:53):
rate equals a $200 cost perappointment.
Caleb Agee (20:59):
And if your salesperson closes at 50% of the
time, that's a $400 cost peracquisition.
That's math.
You got a pencil out in yourhead.
When you're talking to yourdigital nerd, you're going to
get them to bring you the costper lead.
They, most of the time, won'tgo into sales, and so you got to
know how you're tuned theyshould.
If they were a maven marketer,they would, they should, but
they probably won't't.
Especially if you're watchingthis episode and you're confused
(21:20):
.
Brandon Welch (21:21):
They probably aren't you'd be like uh, hey,
jack, we're not going to throw apizza party over clicks and
impressions.
Caleb Agee (21:26):
Yeah, let's talk about how much I actually sold
with this dadgum advertisingyeah, well, and that's that's
the thing is almost the firstthree numbers we just talked
about.
A lot of marketers will hangtheir hats on these metrics, and
you're going, ooh.
They are levers that we have topull to make this machine go,
but they in and of themselvesmean nothing as it relates to
(21:49):
the outcome of your business.
Your business does not growbecause of CPCs.
Brandon Welch (21:55):
It does not grow because of impressions.
Caleb Agee (21:57):
It grows because you get conversions, you get leads
and you get an opportunity to dobusiness with somebody.
If you don't get an at-bat,then you have no chance at
making a sale.
Brandon Welch (22:09):
You might as well have saved the money and gone
and knocked on doors or builtsome tomorrow marketing campaign
with that dollar that makes youfamous.
Look at last week's episode onhow to do that campaign with
that dollar that makes youfamous.
Look at last week's episode onhow to do that Last thing.
So we talked about Google costper leads.
You know, 75 to 100, or, sorry,75 to 250 is like an active
range.
Congratulations if it's under$100, honestly, yeah, it's tough
(22:30):
.
Now.
The only clients we have thatare consistently getting less
than $100 cost per leads are theones who are actively branding
with tomorrow marketingcampaigns.
Caleb Agee (22:38):
And have been for five plus years again.
Brandon Welch (22:41):
I'll point you to the episode last week.
Go listen to those advertisers.
Those guys are kicking thebutts of their competitors.
Yeah, their competitors areprobably paying three to four
times for a lead because they'renot as likable or memorable.
Um, that conversion rate whenyou have a really well
brandedbranded campaign tends togo up by a lot, and that's how
(23:04):
you get more profitable indigital advertising.
Caleb Agee (23:05):
I'm going to make a public service announcement real
quick, because I think it'simportant.
Google search volume is goingdown and will continue to go
down as AI rolls out.
That means this is remember wetalked about it being a bidding
war.
It's all supply and demand.
Well, the demand remains ashigh as it is, if not continuing
to grow, while the supply goesdown.
(23:28):
That means they will have tocharge more per click every
single time to make the samemoney or more money as their
shareholders would like, and soGoogle will get harder.
It has already gotten harder.
Brandon Welch (23:40):
It makes our job frankly so much harder.
Caleb Agee (23:43):
Yes, it will get harder because there will be
less searches in Google.
That is a fact.
Brandon Welch (23:50):
Which will decrease supply, increase demand
, and competition, which willincrease price.
That's all going to go up.
Yep, let's talk about Facebookreal quick.
Cost per leads on Facebook aregoing to be way less because
you're reaching way, way, waymore people.
Like for the dollar that youspend, you're probably reaching
at least 10 times as many peopleon meta, on even a lead gen
(24:14):
campaign on meta, as you areGoogle, yeah, so naturally
you're reaching more people.
More are going to respond.
However, the quality of them isgoing to be noticeably and
always less, because they werelooking for pictures of their
friends, kids and whatever theiralgorithm is feeding them.
They were on Facebook forentertainment not because, ooh,
(24:36):
let me go hire somebody Now.
Facebook is really really,really smart.
Meta is really really smart.
It will find somebody who's inthe zone of buying and it will
say, hey, take the first step.
That is good news.
But you're going to getfrustrated because, even though
a good Facebook cost per lead islike, I would say, anything in
the $20 to $100 range isreasonable.
(24:59):
And you're going, wow, this islike way cheaper than my search
engine ads, but fewer of themare going to pick up the phone.
You're going to get boguscontact information.
Just expect it.
It's going to happen.
As long as you are setting oneout of six of them to an
appointment, you're on benchmarkas far as our numbers.
Yeah, the millions of dollarswe've spent on facebook in
(25:19):
recent times um, one out of sixof them should, should be an
appointment.
If it's less than that, youprobably have something wrong
with either the language or theclarity of your offer, um and
but if you're at that one oneout of six rate, which is like
what?
18?
Caleb Agee (25:37):
ish percent.
Brandon Welch (25:38):
Um, uh, you still ought to be able to make money.
Now the other five out of sixrate which is like what?
18-ish percent?
You still ought to be able tomake money.
Now the other five out of six.
Three of them will be totallybogus.
The other two just won't answeryour calls and they'll make you
mad.
But guess what, guess what?
Six months from now they're aqualified prospect.
You just reach them sooner, sostay on them.
Caleb Agee (25:56):
Put kind of your yesterday slash tomorrow
marketing system and workthrough those leads and be be a
part of their lives.
Brandon Welch (26:04):
Start adding value Email, call and text them
no less than 30 times before youeven start to give up on it.
Caleb Agee (26:10):
They took 12 seconds to raise their hand and say I'd
like to get a price on that,yes, or I'd like to maybe
schedule with you, and you aredoing them a disservice if you
don't follow up with them untilthey tell you to stop.
Yes, they've asked for yourhelp, so help them, yes.
Brandon Welch (26:26):
All right, and we'll leave you some age old
with some age old wisdom.
Figures lie and liars figure.
What we want you to be able todo is be the one who's figuring
this data for your own comfortand your own strategy.
So, uh, have a have a decentidea of how many impressions
you're getting.
If you're not getting a couplehundred thousand in a month's
time, you're probably just notgoing to get all that much from
(26:47):
it.
Know that you're getting asolid click-through rate, which
means your ads are written welland they're enticing enough.
That's 1% click-through rate.
On meta ads, that's 5, five to10%.
On search engine Um, definitelyknow what the cost per click is
.
So you just know how strong thecompetition is and what you're
setting yourself up for it tocost you.
Uh, in service industries, youknow 10 to $20 is probably
(27:11):
pretty average.
Uh, anything more than that.
You know you've got bigcompetition, that's right.
And on Facebook, you know acouple dollars a click is
probably about as much as youwant to pay, yep, and then make
sure your conversion rate is atleast 5%.
Anything below 5%, you've gotwork to do on your landing page
or your offer.
And then, ultimately, is thecost per lead that you're
(27:32):
getting is that trending youtowards profitability because of
your, your historicalappointment set rate and your
close rate?
You know those things.
It doesn't matter what sort ofhogwash Danny Fancy Pants is
coming in with the digitaladvertising weasels.
You can bop them on the headand say cool, I just did my own
calculations and I think it'sprofitable or I think it's not.
(27:52):
But we're not going to throw apizza party until I'm making
money.
That's right, cool.
Join the Maven MarketingMastermind at
mavenmethodtrainingcom.
We can't wait to see you inthere.
We're having a blast.
Send your questions tomavenmonday at frankenmavencom
and we will be back here everyweek answering your real-life
(28:12):
marketing questions, becausemarketers who can't teach you
why are just a fancy lie.
Have a great week, thank you.
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm here with Caleb, give us
your back-to-school advice,Agee.
Caleb Agee (00:16):
Oh, my back-to-school advice Pack a
good lunch.
Brandon Welch (00:20):
Pack a good lunch .
Caleb Agee (00:22):
Yeah, I always bring my lunch, that's what dreams
are made of.
Brandon Welch (00:24):
That's right, we are fully back in school mode.
Actually, we have nothing to dowith it.
Our wives are leading amazingthings in our homes for the
eight homeschoolers we have inour possession and if you are
also back to school, your kidsare back to school we say
congratulations and with thatlet's get nerdy today.
Actually, let's de-nerd, deAlways say congratulations and
(00:45):
with that let's get nerdy.
Today, actually, let's de-nerd,de-nerd, de-nerdify.
Do you like that transition,de-nerd?
So if you are in any form ofconversation about digital
advertising, you are going tohear some stuff that is just
often going to go in one ear andout the other lot of
well-meaning nerds who areeither trying to sell you
something or get excited aboutsomething, and they're going to
(01:06):
throw out things like CPC andCPL and CTRs and CPM and all of
those nerdy-sounding thingsaround digital advertising and
it's like you would love to care.
I'm sure, yeah, but if you'relike most business owners?
In fact, a recent survey foundthat 68 of small business owners
(01:27):
are overwhelmed by digitalmarketing terminology and half
admit they don't understand howto evaluate their campaign
performance yeah.
Caleb Agee (01:34):
And the danger is you sit across from this person
and they're like, hey, we justgot you a, and they start
sounding exactly like theparents on Charlie.
Brandon Welch (01:44):
Brown.
Caleb Agee (01:45):
And then they lean back and smile as if you should
be throwing a party.
Brandon Welch (01:51):
And you're like.
Well, they're younger than meand they're smarter than me.
Caleb Agee (01:54):
Wow, that sounds good.
They know how to do stuff, onthings.
Brandon Welch (01:57):
And so you know it must be good so this will be
your reference episode.
Caleb Agee (02:01):
We're going to try to keep it short and simple and
clean and you can come back andsay well, at least these terms I
understand and I know how toask the questions around them.
Brandon Welch (02:11):
Wise man said once son, don't tell me how the
clock is built, just tell me thetime.
We're going to teach you how totell the time on your ad
performance.
And here it goes.
There's five metrics.
We're going to coverimpressions, what that means, uh
, click through rates, cost perclick, conversion rate and,
ultimately, cost per lead.
(02:32):
These are really the only onesyou need to know and ask about,
and often, too often, these arethe ones that the the nerds
actually don't want to tell youabout, because they're the ones
that may be, um, revealing somebad performance Could be moving
in the wrong direction.
Caleb Agee (02:50):
So quick, number one what is an impression, caleb?
An impression is really.
Some eyeballs have seen yourads.
A set of eyeballs, hopefully,unless it's a pirate.
Brandon Welch (02:58):
Maybe they've got like a patch on or something
like that One person or twopirates have seen your ad for
one impression and it just meansyour ad was seen.
It was seen Practically onGoogle.
That means it displayed ifsomebody searched it or on a
webpage.
The display ad showed up in theviewing window of the person.
Caleb Agee (03:17):
On Facebook it showed up in the news feed or
the reel, Any social media,YouTube, all of those it means
essentially it was seen, yeah,and so somebody's going.
Brandon Welch (03:25):
Well, how many impressions do I need In a
month's time?
There are a lot of peopleselling 10 or 50,000 impressions
, or a very relatively smallnumber of impressions.
I'm going to say if you're inany local market and you want
digital ads to make any sort ofmeaningful impression, you need
(03:49):
a bare minimum of 200,000 in 30days.
So anything under that,especially if it's display
related like Facebook or Googledisplay related, it's just not
really going to move any sort ofneedle of relevancy or recall
if you're not at least in thecouple hundred thousand
territory.
Yeah, but so don't get excitedabout, oh, 10,000 impressions.
Caleb Agee (04:10):
Yeah, don't get so excited.
This is the number that's goingto be the biggest number,
because it's how far you went.
It's all of that.
And just because you hadimpressions doesn't mean they
were impressed.
Yeah, impressed with your ad.
And the next one we're going totalk about is click-through
rate, or it's sometimes calledCTR.
Yes, you'll hear this a lot.
Brandon Welch (04:31):
This is where you really know the value of that
impression.
Yes, so your ad showed up andit's like who cares?
Well, the people that clickedon it cared, hopefully.
Right, if we're talking aboutsearch, there are sort of some
benchmarks about search.
Yeah, there, there are sort ofsome benchmarks.
Um, in google search ads wewant to see at least a three
percent click-through rate onthe ad.
That is, that's probably bareminimum.
(04:52):
I would say our ads are morethan five to eight percent
because we're really obsessedover the copy we're writing.
But in a in a broad, justdefinition, it's like how many
people cared?
What percentage of people caredenough to click on the ad?
Caleb Agee (05:06):
Yep, and so it's expressly, or the math, for it
is impressions how many peoplesaw it divided by how many
people clicked on?
Brandon Welch (05:16):
it.
Yes, selling lawnmowers, and Iwant to bid on the keyword
lawnmowers and people searchlawnmowers.
That's going to be a higherpercentage than people who are
just randomly coming by aFacebook ad or see a display ad
on a website.
So let's call it five to 8% isgood on search Like.
If you're below that, I promiseyou you could be doing better.
(05:38):
Something is often eitheryou're bidding on the wrong
keywords or the ad just was notas snazzy or appealing, or
didn't have a clear offer ordidn't have a clear promise in
the text.
Again, thinking on searchengine pages, as maybe the ads
around, it.
Caleb Agee (05:53):
I'm going to bet that if you get a Google Ads
report from your data nerd andthey show you click-through
rates or CTRs that are lowerthan that, they're not just
running search ads.
They are probably running aperformance max campaign or some
sort of discovery Kill it.
Brandon Welch (06:07):
Kill it now, and you need to ask that question.
Caleb Agee (06:09):
What kind of campaigns are we running?
Are these search only ads?
And that will stop the madnessas quickly as possible, because
that means you're showingdisplay ads and video ads and
all these other things that youdon't care to show.
Brandon Welch (06:18):
So, just for super clarity, click-through
rates like, if you're on search,5% to 8% look for that.
Anything below that startasking questions On Facebook.
If you're doing lead generationads on Facebook and you give
them a really good reason toclick such as an offer or a
coupon or a fill the form outyou want to see at least a 1%
link click-through rate.
Do not let a Facebook nerd giveyou a total click-through rate.
(06:41):
You want link click-throughs.
Facebook will count the numberof clicks and the times people
clicked on the picture and itdoesn't really matter.
What you want is how manypeople actually clicked through
on the offer, went to the nextpage, went to the next page.
That's a 1% or better onFacebook.
Anything below 1%, you could bewriting better ad copy and then
on display ads like we don't doa bunch of display ads just for
(07:03):
the record.
But if you are doing that andyou're going, what is good?
Because they've been talking tome about my click-through rates
0.2, 0.3, 0.2%, 0.2%, 0.2% yeah.
Yes, not 0.02, but 0.2% ondisplay ads.
And you have to think peopleare trying to read their news
and they're not trying to justgo click on some random ad.
Now, it doesn't mean that addidn't have any value from a
(07:25):
brand or recall standpoint.
It just means that if it didn'tget at least 0.2% 0.3%
click-through rates, it's farbelow what the norm is and it
means you should be getting abigger fair share of clicks.
So 5% to 8% on search engine,1% link click through rate on
meta like facebook, instagram,and then on display ads, 0.2 0.3
(07:47):
percent.
Uh, anything below that.
You could be doing better withyour message and you it's a
pretty good cue that the ad isjust not relevant enough for the
audience.
Yeah, that was click throughrate.
Um, this is easy.
This next one is cost per click.
Uh, there are a lot of ways tomeasure the cost and sort of
efficiency per campaign, but wewanted to throw this one in
(08:08):
there because somebody couldtalk to you about well, you got
586 clicks or a 0.2%click-through rate and it's like
okay, but what did they cost me?
Let's just start with search,because that's where cost per
click kind of varies the most bythe way they'll say CPC a lot.
Cpc is the abbreviation, so costper click not to be confused
(08:30):
with cost per conversion,correct?
I hear a lot of peopleinterchange clicks and
conversion and that's just youdon't want to do that.
Caleb Agee (08:36):
You got to be careful with CPC.
Brandon Welch (08:37):
Make sure you define the last C, the click
just means they clicked on thead and they got to your landing
page.
It does not mean they became acustomer.
It does not mean they becamewhat we're going to call a
conversion in a minute.
It just means they clicked onthe ad and so you want to see on
search a really low cost perclick, and it's driven by
(09:00):
competition usually, but areally low cost per click is
probably $2 to $5.
And Google search and.
Google search ads On our morecompetitive categories.
Think home improvement, thinkattorneys, think commoditized
services that have high valueinsurance, you could literally
be in the $10 to $50 range forsome attorney-driven stuff.
(09:21):
I've seen it in the $50 to $100range Easily In big markets.
Caleb Agee (09:25):
That's per click.
So you ran an ad and to getthat click you paid $50 or $5.
It could be any end of thatspectrum.
Brandon Welch (09:35):
Yes, so when you've got this, when you've got
a high cost per click, itbasically raises the stakes for
everything else, because if thecompetition level just required
a really high cost per click,you really have to do really
good on this next metric, whichis conversion rate.
But a couple of otherbenchmarks on meta man, anything
(09:59):
in the dollar range is solid onmeta for a cost per click.
And then on display ads, gosh,it should be pennies.
Like, yeah, it should bepennies.
Caleb Agee (10:07):
Pennies because you should be getting a lot of
display um impressions for thedollar you're spending and, for
the record, cpc also used to bekind of a term that people used
for google search ads as well orppc pay-per-click and so, um,
pay attention to that.
Google ads you don't actuallypay until they click.
(10:29):
Yeah, um, a lot of other, mostother ad platforms anymore are
more impression based.
So it's it's based on you knowthe people they show the ad to,
but google and you know bing adsor whatever, are still caught,
or ppc, and it's based on this.
Cost per click is actually whenyou pay.
Yes, that's when the money isgetting charged to your name.
Brandon Welch (10:51):
Yes, and last thing I would say on that is
just if you're feeling thingsare off, you're not getting the
volume, you feel like you'respending a good couple grand a
month at least on Meta or Searchand you're going, I'm not
feeling it.
Ask, hey dude, what's my costper click?
(11:11):
And if he's like, oh, it's 50,you're like, oh well, that's why
, because maximum you're notgoing to get that many clicks,
yeah, um, you can just dividethat by your budget.
It's going to run out reallyfast yeah, if it was two grand,
you'd get 40 clicks for thatright.
So, and yeah, and so we'regoing to go on to conversion
rate.
This is simply the rate atwhich that click converts into
(11:34):
the action you want, and we'regoing to suggest that you, for
sake of performance measurement,you have that either as a lead
generation form.
So somebody who you know wanteda price on a new roof.
They clicked on your roofing adand then they went to your site
and filled out theirinformation and said, please
give me a price.
Yeah.
Caleb Agee (11:53):
Schedule a consultation or yep.
Brandon Welch (11:56):
Or they called you.
Like you can do some calltracking with either CallRail or
the built-in call tracking onGoogle search ads and you just
want to set some metrics likeonly measure the conversion if
it happened, if the call lastedlike 60 seconds or longer.
Yeah, so when you're looking atthat conversion rate, that's
just simply saying, okay, yougot 100 clicks and let's say you
(12:17):
got a 5% conversion rate.
Well, only five of them turnedinto either a form fill or a
phone call that you could doanything about.
Yeah, the other 95 went to yourwebsite and left.
Yeah, right, so your conversionrate is really the ultimate
leverage on everything.
You can control CPC a littlebit, based on what you decide to
(12:39):
buy or not.
Caleb Agee (12:41):
But that's tough.
That's based on a bidding war,basically Right.
Brandon Welch (12:45):
You can control CTR just by writing better ads,
but none of that matters untilthey convert into like the
person that raises their handand says, hey, let's try to do
some business.
I'd like to do business withyou.
Caleb Agee (12:57):
Yeah, and I think the thing on conversion rate I
want you to pay attention to,just for your safety.
Um, I've seen a lot of Googlead accounts specifically that
are tracking conversions thatare not truly conversions, even
like page view as a conversion.
Or um did maps to your business.
Well, that may, if you're aretail destination, I might, I
(13:19):
might count that, maybe Iwouldn't.
But okay, yeah, I mean I'mtrying to maybe play devil's
advocate here, but most of thetime I don't call.
I don't call that a chance atbusiness.
They just looked up directionsto you and so just pay attention
and say what are theconversions we're talking about?
Make sure it is like a form, acall, or if you're like
e-commerce, it would be like apurchase online.
Brandon Welch (13:38):
Um yep, so to improve in conversion rate.
What's what makes thedifference in a 5% conversion
rate or 10% conversion rate?
By the way, if you don't haveat least a five.
something sucks and you got tofix it.
Any landing page, any homepageof a website, bare minimum 5%.
If your nerd tells you yourconversion rate is lower than 5%
(14:00):
, you have problems with yourwebsite copy or the perceived
value of your offer, and soyou're either not making
something clear enough, you'renot showing enough proof that
you're the one that can do itfor them, so you don't have good
enough pictures and or reviews,um, or you're putting too much
friction on that form you didn'tmake it easy enough I was, or
(14:20):
the form doesn't exist yeah, we,we
kind of consult this week and itwas like somebody that, well,
we're not getting any forms onour website.
And I looked at it.
And it was like somebody that,well, we're not getting any
forms on our website.
And I looked at it and it wasI'm not even kidding you 40
questions to fill out the dangform.
Caleb Agee (14:32):
I'm not doing that.
Brandon Welch (14:33):
By the way, make it like five questions or less.
Make, make, don't just do namephone number email, but do name
phone number phone number emailand like what are you interested
in?
Yeah, A few qualifyingquestions.
A Qualifying questions thattends to bring in the quality of
the lead good enough and thetrust that they're going to get
value from you, while notslowing it down so much that
like screw this.
Caleb Agee (14:53):
I'm just going to call you and it speeds up your
conversation a little bit.
Brandon Welch (14:56):
Right, You're prepared so yeah, so we went all
over the place there.
If we're talking about alanding page or a like a
homepage of a website, that islike where the ad clicked to 5%
bare minimum.
Caleb Agee (15:10):
Guess what At.
Brandon Welch (15:11):
Frank and Maven.
Most of ours are like 10%, 15%,20%.
If you've been doing tomorrowmarketing for a long time, gosh,
we have some that are in the25% to 35% range.
I can think of three right nowthat are easily in that.
That's because people trustthem so much.
We dialed in that landing page.
Think about that.
If you have a 20% conversionrate versus a five, you did four
times the lead volume with thesame budget.
(15:31):
That's right.
Caleb Agee (15:32):
Your budget did not change.
Four times the lead.
Brandon Welch (15:35):
Just because we were getting good with the
messaging.
Go back and listen to some ofthe episodes.
There's an episode called howto Increase your Lead Volume
Without Spending a Penny.
That's a really good one.
Yes, we just talk about how towrite really good, clear landing
pages.
It's actually common sense.
It's the things you want whenyou're clicking on stuff.
You just need to do it for yourown company.
By the way, on Facebook ads, onlead gen campaigns, they don't
(15:58):
give you a flat conversion ratein Facebook, but you can divide
your number of leads you got bythe number of clicks you got or
sorry, yes, number of leads bythe number of clicks you got, or
sorry, yes, number of leads bythe number of clicks, and that
would give you your percentageof conversion.
That's right, and if it's alead gen form, that puppy better
be converting at at least 5%,but it should be 10 plus all day
(16:20):
long.
Caleb Agee (16:22):
By the way, that's a form that keeps them in
Instagram or Facebook, and theyfill it out right on the next
page.
Brandon Welch (16:28):
Yes, so back to you.
You just need to ask your nerddude what's my conversion rate
and if he says anything under 5%, you're like I think I better
get a Maven on this.
Yep, I better submit a questionto MavenMonday at
frankenmavencom and say hey, whyis my conversion rate so low?
Tell me Brandon and Caleb yes,or even better, better.
You know what they could do theycan join the mastermind and
(16:50):
yeah, that's where every otherweek you're getting live support
from Caleb and I and thefrankenmaven team and it's like
bring all this stuff be like,hey, you were talking about
these metrics, yeah, minelooking good, we would love to
have you on the mastermind.
Um, fraction of a fraction of afraction of what it would cost
to hire our team to consult youdirectly or to do the work for
you.
We're teaching you and you getto go do it and take it back to
(17:11):
your ad people and it makeseverything better.
Actually, how did they get tothe Maven Marketing Mastermind?
Caleb Ag (17:19):
MavenMethodTrainingcom .
Brandon Wel (17:20):
MavenMethodTraining .
Sign up for that and startsubmitting your questions after
you're on Last metric, caleb.
Caleb Agee (17:29):
Okay, here it comes.
Last metric is cost per lead.
Now I'm going to be carefulhere, because we abbreviate this
.
We can see CPL we alreadymentioned earlier.
Some people call it cost perconversion and they could
abbreviate that CPC.
That gets confusing.
I've also seen cost peracquisition CPA, not accountant.
Brandon Welch (17:52):
This metric, just really.
It's really what all the otherslead to.
Yes, it's the end result.
It's the lagging result.
Caleb Agee (17:58):
This is really, though, at the bottom line, at
the bottom of the paper.
You know you jump to the backand the bottom corner of the
sheet to see your balance sheeton your P&L, and you know how
you did.
This is the one you want toknow For your marketing metrics
if you're doing any sort oftoday digital marketing.
Cost per lead is the end all.
Brandon Welch (18:19):
It pretty well sets the tone, because all you
got to do from there is set theappointment and close the sale.
Yes, and so if you're dealingwith a $500 cost per lead and
you're only making $1,000 persale, you better be batting at
least a 50% or you're going tobe in the hole big time.
Caleb Agee (18:35):
Yeah, and it's the quickest way to translate your
marketing costs, your marketingefforts, to profitability so
much quicker.
And all these other metrics wetalked about before.
This will affect the CPL costper lead.
Yeah, we talked about before.
This will affect the CPL costper lead.
Yeah, but you need to know whatthis cost per lead is so that
you can do fast math to find outwhether you're making money or
(18:55):
not.
Brandon Welch (18:56):
Really divide your cost per lead by how often
those leads set to anappointment, by how often you
close those sales, and thenyou're going to get how much
marketing cost you're going tohave in that sale.
Yeah, cost per lead is easy.
Caleb Agee (19:06):
It is essentially you take the cost divided by
your total or total amount ofleads.
Brandon Welch (19:12):
Yeah, so if, if you're, if you want to compare
some benchmarks, if you're onGoogle and you're in any of the
home service or professionalservices category, um, anything
from, I would say, 75 to $250 isprobably about average right
now to $250 is probably aboutaverage right now.
Google, google cost per leadshave gone up a ton because look
(19:32):
up the chain, um and Google costper clicks have gone up.
Just the inventory andconversion rates have probably
stayed roughly the same if youhaven't done anything but that
cost per click, just becausethey paid more per click and
then even if it converted at a10% rate, that's just driving
that cost per lead up.
It's just.
They're all ratios, third-grademath.
(19:52):
So, gosh, anything above the$200, $250 range, I'm going like
let's dig a little deeper.
Caleb Agee (20:01):
Well, it's going to be hard.
Depending on your averagecustomer value, it's going to be
hard to make money at thatpoint and your sales close rates
and all of that.
And so you need to know we'rehere to help you eliminate waste
in advertising and grow yourbusiness.
You can't grow a businessunless you be making money, so
we got to make sure that you'remaking money at the end of the
day, and this, this number, willtell you pretty quickly whether
you are or not.
Brandon Welch (20:21):
Yes.
Now the beautiful thing abouteven a high cost per lead on
Google is they tend to be readyto buy because people go to
Google at the finish line.
Caleb Agee (20:30):
They're going.
Brandon Welch (20:30):
Hey, I'm ready to take the action.
So those will have on averagefor us.
If you're a service-basedbusiness, 60% to 70% appointment
set rate, maybe even higher,but you can take 65% to the bank
.
And then how good are yoursalespeople?
Yes, so $100 cost per leaddivided by a 50% appointment set
(20:53):
rate equals a $200 cost perappointment.
Caleb Agee (20:59):
And if your salesperson closes at 50% of the
time, that's a $400 cost peracquisition.
That's math.
You got a pencil out in yourhead.
When you're talking to yourdigital nerd, you're going to
get them to bring you the costper lead.
They, most of the time, won'tgo into sales, and so you got to
know how you're tuned theyshould.
If they were a maven marketer,they would, they should, but
they probably won't't.
Especially if you're watchingthis episode and you're confused
(21:20):
.
Brandon Welch (21:21):
They probably aren't you'd be like uh, hey,
jack, we're not going to throw apizza party over clicks and
impressions.
Caleb Agee (21:26):
Yeah, let's talk about how much I actually sold
with this dadgum advertisingyeah, well, and that's that's
the thing is almost the firstthree numbers we just talked
about.
A lot of marketers will hangtheir hats on these metrics, and
you're going, ooh.
They are levers that we have topull to make this machine go,
but they in and of themselvesmean nothing as it relates to
(21:49):
the outcome of your business.
Your business does not growbecause of CPCs.
Brandon Welch (21:55):
It does not grow because of impressions.
Caleb Agee (21:57):
It grows because you get conversions, you get leads
and you get an opportunity to dobusiness with somebody.
If you don't get an at-bat,then you have no chance at
making a sale.
Brandon Welch (22:09):
You might as well have saved the money and gone
and knocked on doors or builtsome tomorrow marketing campaign
with that dollar that makes youfamous.
Look at last week's episode onhow to do that campaign with
that dollar that makes youfamous.
Look at last week's episode onhow to do that Last thing.
So we talked about Google costper leads.
You know, 75 to 100, or, sorry,75 to 250 is like an active
range.
Congratulations if it's under$100, honestly, yeah, it's tough
(22:30):
.
Now.
The only clients we have thatare consistently getting less
than $100 cost per leads are theones who are actively branding
with tomorrow marketingcampaigns.
Caleb Agee (22:38):
And have been for five plus years again.
Brandon Welch (22:41):
I'll point you to the episode last week.
Go listen to those advertisers.
Those guys are kicking thebutts of their competitors.
Yeah, their competitors areprobably paying three to four
times for a lead because they'renot as likable or memorable.
Um, that conversion rate whenyou have a really well
brandedbranded campaign tends togo up by a lot, and that's how
(23:04):
you get more profitable indigital advertising.
Caleb Agee (23:05):
I'm going to make a public service announcement real
quick, because I think it'simportant.
Google search volume is goingdown and will continue to go
down as AI rolls out.
That means this is remember wetalked about it being a bidding
war.
It's all supply and demand.
Well, the demand remains ashigh as it is, if not continuing
to grow, while the supply goesdown.
(23:28):
That means they will have tocharge more per click every
single time to make the samemoney or more money as their
shareholders would like, and soGoogle will get harder.
It has already gotten harder.
Brandon Welch (23:40):
It makes our job frankly so much harder.
Caleb Agee (23:43):
Yes, it will get harder because there will be
less searches in Google.
That is a fact.
Brandon Welch (23:50):
Which will decrease supply, increase demand
, and competition, which willincrease price.
That's all going to go up.
Yep, let's talk about Facebookreal quick.
Cost per leads on Facebook aregoing to be way less because
you're reaching way, way, waymore people.
Like for the dollar that youspend, you're probably reaching
at least 10 times as many peopleon meta, on even a lead gen
(24:14):
campaign on meta, as you areGoogle, yeah, so naturally
you're reaching more people.
More are going to respond.
However, the quality of them isgoing to be noticeably and
always less, because they werelooking for pictures of their
friends, kids and whatever theiralgorithm is feeding them.
They were on Facebook forentertainment not because, ooh,
(24:36):
let me go hire somebody Now.
Facebook is really really,really smart.
Meta is really really smart.
It will find somebody who's inthe zone of buying and it will
say, hey, take the first step.
That is good news.
But you're going to getfrustrated because, even though
a good Facebook cost per lead islike, I would say, anything in
the $20 to $100 range isreasonable.
(24:59):
And you're going, wow, this islike way cheaper than my search
engine ads, but fewer of themare going to pick up the phone.
You're going to get boguscontact information.
Just expect it.
It's going to happen.
As long as you are setting oneout of six of them to an
appointment, you're on benchmarkas far as our numbers.
Yeah, the millions of dollarswe've spent on facebook in
(25:19):
recent times um, one out of sixof them should, should be an
appointment.
If it's less than that, youprobably have something wrong
with either the language or theclarity of your offer, um and
but if you're at that one oneout of six rate, which is like
what?
18?
Caleb Agee (25:37):
ish percent.
Brandon Welch (25:38):
Um, uh, you still ought to be able to make money.
Now the other five out of sixrate which is like what?
18-ish percent?
You still ought to be able tomake money.
Now the other five out of six.
Three of them will be totallybogus.
The other two just won't answeryour calls and they'll make you
mad.
But guess what, guess what?
Six months from now they're aqualified prospect.
You just reach them sooner, sostay on them.
Caleb Agee (25:56):
Put kind of your yesterday slash tomorrow
marketing system and workthrough those leads and be be a
part of their lives.
Brandon Welch (26:04):
Start adding value Email, call and text them
no less than 30 times before youeven start to give up on it.
Caleb Agee (26:10):
They took 12 seconds to raise their hand and say I'd
like to get a price on that,yes, or I'd like to maybe
schedule with you, and you aredoing them a disservice if you
don't follow up with them untilthey tell you to stop.
Yes, they've asked for yourhelp, so help them, yes.
Brandon Welch (26:26):
All right, and we'll leave you some age old
with some age old wisdom.
Figures lie and liars figure.
What we want you to be able todo is be the one who's figuring
this data for your own comfortand your own strategy.
So, uh, have a have a decentidea of how many impressions
you're getting.
If you're not getting a couplehundred thousand in a month's
time, you're probably just notgoing to get all that much from
(26:47):
it.
Know that you're getting asolid click-through rate, which
means your ads are written welland they're enticing enough.
That's 1% click-through rate.
On meta ads, that's 5, five to10%.
On search engine Um, definitelyknow what the cost per click is
.
So you just know how strong thecompetition is and what you're
setting yourself up for it tocost you.
Uh, in service industries, youknow 10 to $20 is probably
(27:11):
pretty average.
Uh, anything more than that.
You know you've got bigcompetition, that's right.
And on Facebook, you know acouple dollars a click is
probably about as much as youwant to pay, yep, and then make
sure your conversion rate is atleast 5%.
Anything below 5%, you've gotwork to do on your landing page
or your offer.
And then, ultimately, is thecost per lead that you're
(27:32):
getting is that trending youtowards profitability because of
your, your historicalappointment set rate and your
close rate?
You know those things.
It doesn't matter what sort ofhogwash Danny Fancy Pants is
coming in with the digitaladvertising weasels.
You can bop them on the headand say cool, I just did my own
calculations and I think it'sprofitable or I think it's not.
(27:52):
But we're not going to throw apizza party until I'm making
money.
That's right, cool.
Join the Maven MarketingMastermind at
mavenmethodtrainingcom.
We can't wait to see you inthere.
We're having a blast.
Send your questions tomavenmonday at frankenmavencom
and we will be back here everyweek answering your real-life
(28:12):
marketing questions, becausemarketers who can't teach you
why are just a fancy lie.
Have a great week, thank you.
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