June 9, 2025 • 32 mins
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Host: Brandon Welch
Co-Host: Caleb Agee
Executive Producer: Carter Breaux
Audio/Video Producer: Nate the Camera Guy
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm joined by Caleb.
It'll be better the second time, AG.
This ought to be really goodbecause we have practiced it.
Yeah, all the way through, allthe way through.
And somebody told somebody thatit wasn't recording and
somebody said it's recording,it's fine, and it wasn't
(00:28):
recording.
So let's see if we can do thisone more time.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yeah, this is take two.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yeah, we've got a good night's sleep under our
belt, uh-huh.
In case you haven't figured itout, this is the place where we
help you eliminate waste inadvertising, grow your business
and achieve the big dream.
We are on episode 102, almostan entire year doing this, two
years, almost an entire anotheryear doing this Sorry, two years
.
Yes another year, another,another year.
We started in 2023, and we justget unreasonably excited about
(00:57):
helping family-ownedowner-operated companies across
the US grow get a little bitmore with a little bit less.
Yeah.
And that's the eliminate wasteand advertising part Clarifying
your mission, clarifying yourculture, clarifying your sales
strategy and, yes, those peskydollars you have to spend on
advertising.
We have a track record of doingthat here in our agency, frank
(01:18):
and Maven.
We have the blessing of workingwith so many cool companies
across, really across America,and we've been doing that going
on 15 years.
I have, and then the team hasbeen with us.
Caleb has almost been with us11 years.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Actually, by the time you listen to this, it'll be 11
.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Friday.
Last Friday.
Last Friday is your 11thanniversary.
What day is?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
it 11 years.
It's Monday.
That fateful day, when he metme in a taco spot and said okay,
Brandon didn't show me theoffice before I signed up to
work here.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I didn't have one.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
No.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
It'll be done soon.
But hey, today is actuallyabout a thing that we kind of
dance around a lot but wehaven't ever hit it on the head,
and that is the educate thepublic myth.
This is chapter six in theMaven Marketer, and somewhere
(02:15):
right now there is somebody in aconference room being sold
advertising and somebody issaying well, I just need to
educate my customers.
If I educate them, they'll buyfrom me.
Yep.
And it's a myth.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
We call it a myth because it is.
It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
There's three myths in the movie marketer.
But this is the third andprobably the most fatal.
Simply because you could havethe best media plan in the world
, you could have a really nicehealthy budget, you could have
good frequency, you could evenhave good targeting and all of
those things.
And if you make it your goal,as it often happens, to say,
(02:53):
well, I'm just going to tell thepeople about me, I'm going to
educate the public, all thatmoney didn't make a difference.
Why, caleb?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
The message is really that linchpin in all of your
marketing right?
You start with strategy message, then media messages, the.
That fulcrum makes the wholething work or not work.
And so, um, I think whathappens often in this case is um
, in that conference room,somebody signs up to do a
billboard radio ads, facebookads it doesn't really matter
(03:23):
what ad it is, but they'vesigned up.
And then the advertising, themedia rep whoever's writing it,
building it sits down and saysnow tell me about your business.
And that's the first questionthey ask Tell me about your
business.
And what happens when we dothat is then I'm going to say
well, we're a marketing agency,we help small businesses across
(03:47):
the country.
We, you know we would talkabout how we've done it
different times.
We'll talk about our trackrecord, we'll talk about our
case studies and all of thoseare good things.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
We've got 468 years of combined experience.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Even though Nate's only been doing it about 23
minutes now, he's been herelonger than that.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, Three, three of the 400.
Yeah, you got 23 minutes justin one podcast episode.
So no, we um.
What happens is you have thosemoments where they start asking
you about you and instead of notknowing that, and what they
really should be focusing isasking you about your customer.
That's right and that's.
The difference is, who are weactually talking to?
(04:28):
Learning about their needs,pains, hopes and fears.
And then how can our product?
This is where you're the thirdstep in this.
Where can my product satisfythose?
But you only ask about ityourself.
In relation to all of that, I'mjumping ahead, but that's the
high level we're going to coverhere in a minute.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, and then last is a reasonable.
It happens in a fraction of asecond, and it's not that any of
those people in the room aretrying to like write a bad ad.
It's not that any of thosepeople are trying to, you know,
waste money or anything likethat, but it is usually nobody's
job to advocate for thecustomer while the ad is being
written.
To advocate for the customerwhile the ad is being written
(05:08):
unless that person fanciesthemselves an ad writer or a
campaign creator is what weprefer, and so that's the myth.
You do not need to educate thepublic.
The public does not needinformation, they need
inspiration.
You do not need to inform yourcustomers, because to do so
assumes that somebody was justwaiting around to hear about
your ASE certification,mechanics, before they would buy
(05:29):
.
They go.
That was the thing.
Oh, finally I heard it.
Now I'll go down to the autoshop and buy something, right.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah, we're just around the corner in our
convenient locations.
Yeah, that may be true, butthat's not why I'm buying from
you.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
They were on 31st and Main.
Oh, that's what I needed tohear.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
It's like Well, of course I'm going to stop now.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
And it's not that those supporting details don't
have a place in the buyerjourney, it's that.
That's not the thing, man.
Our goal and your goal shouldbe to become the most liked and
trusted.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Liked and trusted when you have those two things,
you automatically becomewell-known and how do you become
liked and trusted Two thingsthat likable and trustable
people do say things like that.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Which is usually to talk about the other person,
right?
Nobody likes the personflapping their jaws.
Nobody likes that lifeinsurance salesman who sucks the
life out of a room.
You're going to need lifeinsurance because you're not
going to have any when he's donewith you and just talks about
himself, and so it's so naturaland so human.
And actually you're salespeopleand you probably do this
(06:36):
naturally anyway unless you're anarcissist and you might want
to go take the narcissist quizbut we automatically size up our
conversations and mold them tothe person we're across the
table from.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
So yeah, and I think at the end of once you've done
what we're about to talk about,once you've written a strong ad
and you've not educated thepublic about yourself strong ad
and you've not educated thepublic about yourself.
You should be able to go likeput your ad down, put on maybe a
little bit of a pessimisticbrain and show up, pick up your
(07:13):
ad again or watch the video orlisten to the radio spot or
whatever you've produced, andsay I'm Nancy, do I care?
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Do I even care and listen?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
to the whole thing and if at any point you got
bored, if at any point there wassomething that was like don't
who cares.
It fell flat.
Nancy needs to feel.
She needs to feel things.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, they're going to be those few magical moments
when the stars align andsomebody happened to need a
mechanic and they didn't know ofone and they happen to be right
in front of the television orradio when that ad came on.
But that is not what you canhinge the profitability campaign
on.
You have to hinge it onlong-term likability and recall,
(07:52):
and when we're not in the modefor information we will not pay
attention to it.
Logic does not move people,emotion does.
A lot of studies on this.
The thing that happens whenbrands or people or places or
things or experiences, the thingthat happens when those enter
long-term memory and they sortof bond to the part of our minds
(08:15):
that store long-term thingsinvoluntarily, is that we're
releasing oxytocin, chemicalsare firing in the brain.
And when those chemicals arefiring in the brain, the same
time that you do happen tomention your name or maybe maybe
it's a uh, a hook or or a phonenumber or website you wanted to
remember, if, if, if emotionsare high at that moment, you
(08:36):
have a really good chance of itbeing recalled.
If they're low, ie becauseyou've been pelting them with
information, kind of like I'mdoing right now you don't get
that benefit of long-term recall, and that's really the entire
reason to do advertising YepBranding of any kind.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
So get all that crap out of your ads.
I said it, I said crap.
Get it out of your ads.
Nobody cares about yourcredentials, all those initials
after your name.
The reality is you spent two,two, four, eight years trying to
get those things.
But unless you don't have,unless you don't have the
qualifications to you know ifyou're a surgeon you don't have,
(09:13):
you're not qualified to be asurgeon.
I do care about that, but Iassume that that's what you do.
Yeah.
There's, there are legalentities that would stop you
from doing that, otherwise, oh,you say you went to school for
12 years.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, but those don't mean anything to me.
They don't tell me.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
They mean something in the closing part of the sale.
They mean at the final safety,check the safety okay and
comparing maybe two providers atthe end.
But that is not in mass mediaOne of my favorite examples and
somebody here is going okay, butI don't have anything emotional
about my business.
One of the least emotionalbusinesses I can think of is a
(09:52):
body shop.
There's no joy in going to thebody shop.
You are not there, likely forany fun reason.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I was going to say.
There's some emotions maybetied to it.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
That's a bad day Sure , sure, okay.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
But you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
We had this.
It's a story I tell on theMaven Marketer and I remember a
long time ago we had this clientand he'd been advertising for a
long time.
Coolest dude ever.
He swept the floors of thisplace when he was 15, worked his
way up to buying it and workedthis place for like 30 years and
it was a great shop.
Okay, but guess what?
A lot of body shops are greatshops.
You bring them your car and itleaves better than it came in.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
It looks like it did when you bought it.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And so you know you're asking, we'll just call
him Bill.
We anonymize this fellowbecause he is a very successful
but very private individual.
But you know, it's theconversation.
Well, what's special about yourbusiness?
Well, you know, we are qualitysatisfaction guaranteed.
(10:47):
And we are yada yada, yadacertified and it's like, eh, eh,
everybody else says that tooright.
So and this is a key takeaway,for if you are an ad salesperson
or a consultant, you have tospend time.
And so I knew I didn't have thething.
I knew I didn't have the thing.
I knew I didn't have the ad andI was far enough along in my
(11:08):
career at this point I was like,okay, I'm not going to take
this guy's money and just talkabout him being a body shop down
on Elm and Main for all yourbody shop needs.
So I walked around with him foranother hour or so in a shop and
I said can I just watch whatgoes on here?
And I had some conversationswith the people that answered
(11:29):
the phone.
He let me back in the shop andtalked to his people.
Well, bill answers the phone.
And he's like yeah, no worries,dale will be here at 3 am.
And I was like what was thatall about?
He goes oh, somebody at frontcalled and said you know, shelly
minivan mom needs a car back bytomorrow at four.
(11:54):
And I said, no worries, it'llbe at 3 am.
And I said when do you guysopen?
He goes, oh, eight.
And I said what was that allabout?
Then he goes well, you know,dale has no problem coming in.
and you know, getting an extradone because we believe moms
ought to be back in theirminivans so they can get to the
soccer game.
And it was that thing he saidand it took hours to find.
(12:16):
And I'm like that's the thing.
And so not many body shops cansay that, that they have a Dale
that will come in at 3 am.
So we wrote the ad that wassomething like it's 3 am, you're
asleep, and so are all yourneighbors, and so are all the
other body shops in town, butDale's here fixing the van, so
Shelly can you know Get tosoccer, and that's an example of
(12:52):
what they were really selling.
Get to soccer good track record.
That story is what made thephones ring, that's he grew $2
million in sales over the nextyear after we ran campaigns like
that.
Love it, and so he thought,like most people think, it's
(13:13):
just I got to get my name outthere.
I got to educate the publicright and it wasn't that, it was
make them feel that you're theone that shares their values and
understands what it's like tobe them.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah, hey, quick timeout.
I want you to run over toYouTube if you're not already
there, drop a comment in thereand I want you to have two lines
, two sections.
It needs to say what am Iselling?
So, body shop, auto repair,whatever that could be and what
am I really selling?
And I want you to write foryour business.
(13:46):
What are you really selling?
It could be I'm selling gettingpeople back to their lives
quicker right.
Peel back those layers.
And it's not the surface valueof like a great car that runs
well.
That's not what it is.
It's, you know, being able toreliably get to work on time
every day or get my kids wherethey need to go, or whatever
(14:07):
that is.
So, uh, we would love to seethose in the comments.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Drop those in there.
You're not selling estate plans.
You're selling families thatdon't fight.
You're not selling eyeglasses.
You're selling being able tosee your daughter's wedding in
perfect detail.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, your kid learning in school without a
hindrance.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yes, yeah, you're not selling weight loss, you're
selling being able to chase yourgrandkids around the backyard,
right?
So figure that out, and that'sreally where you need to start.
And the two ingredients thatwill get you the farthest in
marketing and we say it forevery person that comes here you
have to have these twoingredients curiosity and
empathy.
You've got to be curious enoughto ask more, more, more, why,
(14:48):
why, why?
Know what actually is Shellygoing through, know what
actually is the customerthinking, not what sounds good
in an ad, because what soundsgood in an ad will get you
ignored.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
What feels good to the customer is what you're
after.
So quick note for ad writers orpeople who are responsible for
advertising working guys, thistakes time.
You cannot do this in yourtypical CNA.
Oh, we're going to go, listento the client and ask what does
the client need and then readthem back in 30 minutes, after
(15:21):
talking to them, their bulletpoints.
You have to spend timeuncovering this person, this
founder or this operator of thisbusiness.
You have to be around them longenough that they stop talking
about their product and you seetheir little quirks talking
(15:41):
about their product.
And you see their little quirks.
You see the little things thatthey say that they probably
picked up from their grandpa orsome vernacular where they're
from.
You see, just like I saw withBill you see these things that
they didn't even realize werespecial.
Yeah, you have to pull that outof them.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, and I think when you read back, if you do
the basic, tell me about yourbusiness, write down a bunch of
bullet points.
you ship that to them or youship an ad that's based on those
bullet points.
They'll be like yep, soundsgood, yeah, because it's about
my company, it's about me andthat feels good.
Right, I'm going to put that on.
Uh, everybody cares about whatI do as much as I, as I hope
(16:16):
that they do.
The reality is they don't, yeah, but you're going to get a.
Yes, you're going to get greatfirst-time approval on that ad
and then it's going to run, butthen you're going to get a lot
of questions in three or sixmonths because there's no
traction happening.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, nobody's saying they heard my ads because they
didn't.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
They're ignoring it.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
They heard three seconds of it and went back to
their life.
Yeah, we have spent.
We just brought on a client,which we don't do very often,
but we just brought one on andwe have spent 15 hours with this
client.
Yeah, Before we've ever evenfelt qualified to say okay,
here's the plan and we're goingto spend another two or three
(16:54):
hours with him picking up on hislittle isms before we feel
confident saying this is the,this is the plan you ought to
run.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
And the poor guy.
You know the meeting wasbasically over but we peppered
him with nine, 10, 15 morequestions for the next half hour
at the end of the meetingbecause we still wanted to like
hear more.
And he, he was digging intothat.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
So third lesson there if you are buying advertising
or if you have an agency, or ifyou have a consultant and
somebody is not taking that timeto dig into your unique
personality, your brandpersonality, the values that
actually make a difference, youmight have the wrong person.
Or you may need to send themthis episode, or you may need to
(17:38):
get them a copy of the Wizardof Ads, or you may need to say,
hey, I think we could spend somemore time.
I want you to feel comfortable,knowing me.
So let's just like the world isset up right now.
Listen to the client for anhour or two, Bring them a plan.
Everybody's excited.
They say yes and then producethe ad as fast as possible, and
(18:01):
that is the root of waste Waste.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah, yeah, that's it .
We don't believe in that stuffhere.
No, so we've got, we've got areally 20 questions for you.
Yeah, um, that will help youcut through the fluff, get to
the truth.
These are, these are versionsand types.
It's not.
You don't go through this listand read every question and get
every answer to it.
It's a nuance, it's aconversation, but these will
(18:24):
help you get started and we'regoing to just fly through them
real fast for you, but we'llalso put them in the show notes,
so you can grab it.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So number one is what is the customer actually doing
today?
I want you to imagine this is aperson who, if you're selling a
service or a high-end retailproduct or something that has
any longer buying cycle than acheeseburger which is most
products they're not buying youtoday, tomorrow or next month.
It's probably going to bemonths or years before they get
around to buying you.
So what is she doing and why inthe heck would she even stop to
(18:53):
listen to your ad?
This is where entertainment ithas to be a factor.
You have to.
You have to, as roy says itoffer her a more interesting
thought than what she waspreviously thinking.
So imagine where she is.
You can kind of think throughthe program it's on.
You can think, you know, is itmiddle of the day, afternoon,
late at night, early morning,driving to work, whatever it is?
(19:14):
That's where you start and youthink, okay, what would I have
to do to be entertaining?
Like if you were sitting therein the car next to that person.
What would you say?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah, what would you do to be memorable?
What's the pain?
This is question number two.
What's the pain they feel thatyour product can solve?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
What are they feeling ?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
What pain in their life.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, they may not even know your product can fix
that Yep Number.
They may not even know yourproduct can fix that.
Number three is what are theyafraid might happen if they
don't fix that pain?
Fear is a really powerfulmotivator.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, Number four.
What do they wish was easier?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, Losing weight probably right.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Could be.
Yeah, what do they wish waseasier?
Number five is what would theyGoogle late at night when this
thing is bothering them?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
I love that.
Or what's in their chat GPThistory.
Yeah yeah.
Modern version.
Yeah, that's the modern.
That's the 25 version.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Number six is what problem does your customer wake
up thinking about in the morningLike what's the first thing
that comes to their mind?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Number seven what's the moment in their day where
your product can make adifference?
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Imagine that, imagine that precipitating event and
like the actual place they are.
Maybe they're not even in front.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
If only I had that thing.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, they might not even be in front of the screen.
They might be out in thebackyard working or something
right.
Might be when they have friendsover Number eight.
If they got what you're selling, how would their life feel
different in 24 hours from now?
Describe that.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Number nine what fear is keeping them from pulling
the trigger?
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Objections yeah, Number 10 is what excuse are
they telling themselves for notacting yet?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Number 11,.
What do they think they needand what are you actually
selling?
We've already talked about that.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, yeah.
What are you really selling?
Number 12,?
What do they dream of doingwith the time, money or energy?
Your product will give themback.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
That's a great ad writing hack.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
What are you going to give them back to their life?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
You didn't just save them money, you bought them a
vacation.
Yeah, back to their life.
Yeah, you didn't just save themmoney, you bought them a
vacation, yeah 13,.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
When's the last time you heard a real story from a
customer and did you write thatdown, caleb?
Oh, did you write it down.
Write it down.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Hey, your salespeople have great intel.
If you have direct salespeopleon the sales floor or going to
people's houses or whatever thatis, they know a lot of these
answers to help you write astrong ad.
They know the needs, pains,hopes and fears of these
customers because they hear themand they have a rapid fire
(21:50):
objection processing machine.
That's happening because it'show they you know.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
There's a million dollar ad in the mind of your
salesperson.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yes, Because they had to sell it over and over and
over again.
That's right.
So ask them some of thesequestions, because they'll have
a hack right into the mind ofthe customer.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
It's not just how did that sale go?
It's like what was she askingabout?
What was she unsure about?
Yes, what did she see inanother company that she either
liked or didn't like?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Another, question we asked is these are bonus
questions we're giving you rightnow.
Yeah, when they buy from you.
Why is it when they don't buyfrom you?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
why didn't they?
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yeah, yeah, back to the list real quick here, number
14,.
If you took out your name, logoand phone number, would your ad
still be interesting?
Speaker 1 (22:41):
And would somebody still know that it was yours,
yes?
Or would they think, oh, that'ssome sort of company in the
category, but I couldn't tellyou whose it is.
This is where tonality, speed,vernacular Sounds, sound.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Music vernacular.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Sounds.
Sound, your visual presence,the style of your spokesperson,
music logos, rhythms or, sorry,music slogans, rhythms.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Any one of those things on its own doesn't make
the difference, but when youhave a unique blend, the herbs
and spices of your, of yourcampaign secret sauce.
Yeah, and I'll tell you, for us, like our, some of our favorite
ones.
There's actually 14 of thesethat we have in a guide that we
can put in the links.
It's 14 ways to make your adsmore interesting.
Some of our favorites are speed, music, rhythm, cadence, rhythm
(23:41):
, white space.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
And so you can pick any amount of them.
Just do them intentionally anddo them over and over and over
again, so that people come toknow your ads as more than just
ads.
They come to know it as yourscent.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Yeah, your style.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Yeah, your calling card, so to speak.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Number 15, does your ad sound like a human or does it
sound like an ad?
You can smell ad speak frommiles away and if you read it
and you're like, oh, it kind ofsounds like, you'll naturally
bend this way.
Unfortunately, because you'veheard so many bad ads, your
brain will naturally bend thisway.
Also, ChatGPT will naturallywrite this way unless you coach
(24:23):
it not to, because it thinksthat's what makes a good ad,
because it's been trained withso many bad ads.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Those are the kind of ads that are ignorable.
That's right so if you hearthose, uh, get them out of there
, cut them yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
What is one phrase in your ad that would make someone
roll their eyes or go man Idon't believe that.
Yeah, where's the BS meter.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
When does it go off?
Yeah, there's the BS meter.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, when does it go off?
Yeah, there's a boring spot.
Sometimes it's that you taketoo long to get to it.
You chop the top, as we sayaround here, or it's about 60%
of the way through your ad andyou should have gotten to it and
you missed it.
Yes.
You took just an extra twolines too long, yeah, so cut
them, guys.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
This sounds like, by the way.
The last question is if youwere sitting across from the
table from the customer, whatwould you say first?
If you were a real person, talkto one person, not don't
imagine talking to everybody,because you need to talk to
somebody and then everybody willhear it.
That's the eavesdropper effect.
Yeah, okay, this all seems likeokay, well, this is a long
(25:25):
process.
It should be Like empathy, sookay this all seems like okay,
well, this is a long process.
It should be Like empathy.
There's no greater gift you cangive to somebody than the time
to understand what they're goingthrough and meeting them where
they are.
If you do the same industryover and over, you'll the
(25:47):
customer.
Or why your client, if you'rethe consultant, is doing this
thing?
How does their uniquepersonality, their unique value
set beyond the product and thebasic voids that it fills?
And so you need to stop and askyour client why are you doing
(26:07):
this instead of something else?
How did you end up in thisbusiness?
Why didn't you go to school todo this instead?
What's something you'll alwaysdo, no matter what.
What's something you'll neverdo, no matter what.
And this is where you start topull out stories that their you
know dad told them like whenthey were young and they you can
(26:29):
start to peel back the layersand get to who they really are
yeah because when you can helpthe public see who your client
really is and they can see thatwho they really is is who they
really is see what I did there.
I think so, I think I followedit and it's the same as them.
That's when magic happens.
And that's when they go.
My guy is Bill.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
It doesn't matter if the other places are fancier.
It doesn't even matter ifthey're cheaper.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, and you want to get to the specifics.
These convictions, that's whatthese things find.
The always and the never, thoseare convictions, they're
passion.
It's like, ooh, we were goingto do this.
And if you can get to thespecifics of what those things
are, it's not just we'll alwaysdo the highest quality
(27:14):
craftsmanship.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
If you can say we will never.
We will always measure yourwindow to the nearest eighth of
an inch, so that you don't haveany gapping or trim extra trim
that's needed.
That's so much more specificthan uh.
We're gonna just have highquality craftsmanship we quality
standards guaranteed, right?
Speaker 1 (27:36):
um, we're.
We're articulating a really,really complex concept here,
like ad writing takes time.
You, you need to get reps, youneed to go try and try again.
I told somebody recently I waslike I don't think you realize
how many ads we write and throwaway because we go, okay, it had
(27:57):
maybe a few good bones but itdidn't hit the thing, and we're
constantly throwing the ad upagainst the wall, saying it out
loud I'm going Nate listen tothis ad.
Reading it to somebody read itto, multiple people, have a
circle of people you read it tobecause if and if you're not
like jacked to like go see whatcaleb's reaction is when you
(28:18):
read in the ad.
Um, like kind of my barometeris like if I didn't make you
laugh, or like you know, if youdidn't make yourself laugh a
little bit when you wrote it.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, if you'renot laughing or if you're not
going.
Oh yeah, that clarifyingsomething really, really
specific.
You don't have the right ad andall that is the inverse of the
(28:39):
false assumption that all wehave to do is educate the public
.
And I heard that a bunch, abunch of times when I was early
on in advertising and thosehappened to be the bunch, a
bunch of times that the campaigndidn't work.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
They just know about me.
They'll buy from me.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
And yeah, so your name ain't got nothing to do
with it.
It's them and we knew that.
And that's just a fancier wayto say it's the message, but
don't just say it's the messageactually means.
And real messages talk topeople about their values, their
voids, their needs, andhopefully these questions will
(29:12):
give you some extra tools tocrack open and find that.
But it does take time and it'sworth the time because it's the
difference in the spend goingflat or you're making a bunch of
money.
Yep.
Hey, if you need some extra help, if you'd like some just a fun
(29:36):
thing to do and bring yourcampaigns with another group of
people that'll give feedback.
We want to be that group ofpeople.
We have started the MavenMarketing Mastermind.
Right now you can get an intropricing 99 bucks a month and
that is your chance to get, say,access.
Like ooh, it's exclusive access, but there are limited hours in
(29:56):
a day here.
We've done this podcast for twoyears and it's tough.
Like thanks to Nate the cameraguy, we get it done every week,
but it's tough for us to even dothis.
So we've made a way for anybody.
You've got a small business.
You've got an advertisingproduct you're selling.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
You've got just a creative thing you want to bring
.
Maybe you're in-house marketing.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, in-house marketing.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
We want to help you with that, and that's what the
Mastermind is designed for.
We meet twice a month, startingin June, which is now and it's
a free-for-all.
Hey, I'm facing this objectionfrom a client.
Hey, I don't think this ad isworking.
Hey, my Facebook ad is notworking here.
Hey, my Google ads areunderperforming here.
Whatever is hindering yourgrowth or frustrating you in the
(30:42):
world of marketing?
Join us.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Caleb and.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I will just sit here and have conversations like
we're doing now.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
We'll jump in and even if you don't have anything
to bring that week or that time,you learn a lot just by seeing
it through somebody else'sproblems.
You may run into that exactsituation next week.
Or maybe you didn't realizeyour you know Facebook ad
campaign wasn't performing andyou were looking at it the wrong
way.
Or or you know, you learn fromother people's um questions as
(31:10):
well.
Um, and beyond that, there'llbe a community uh aspect to this
where, um, some of our, ourmavens, but especially the other
small business owners andmarketers, um will be a part of
it, yeah.
And um, they'll really.
I think we'll be able to swapideas, share experiences that
we've had.
I think it's going to be areally cool thing.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
So it's mavenmethodtrainingcom.
You can sign up for that and bepart of the first mastermind we
would love to have you.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
It's going to be awesome.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Hey, if you enjoyed this, please like comment.
That would be a huge gift to usand share it with somebody who
you think also could hear it usand share it with somebody who
you think also could hear it,don't forget.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Talking to you media sales managers what are you
really selling?
I want to hear it.
What are you really selling?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah, what are you really selling in the comments?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Drop it in there Like subscribe all those good things
.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yes, we'll be back here every single Monday
answering your real lifemarketing questions, because
marketers who cannot teach youwhy Are just a fancy lie.
Have are just a fancy lie.
Have a great week.
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm joined by Caleb.
It'll be better the second time, AG.
This ought to be really goodbecause we have practiced it.
Yeah, all the way through, allthe way through.
And somebody told somebody thatit wasn't recording and
somebody said it's recording,it's fine, and it wasn't
(00:28):
recording.
So let's see if we can do thisone more time.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Yeah, this is take two.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Yeah, we've got a good night's sleep under our
belt, uh-huh.
In case you haven't figured itout, this is the place where we
help you eliminate waste inadvertising, grow your business
and achieve the big dream.
We are on episode 102, almostan entire year doing this, two
years, almost an entire anotheryear doing this Sorry, two years
.
Yes another year, another,another year.
We started in 2023, and we justget unreasonably excited about
(00:57):
helping family-ownedowner-operated companies across
the US grow get a little bitmore with a little bit less.
Yeah.
And that's the eliminate wasteand advertising part Clarifying
your mission, clarifying yourculture, clarifying your sales
strategy and, yes, those peskydollars you have to spend on
advertising.
We have a track record of doingthat here in our agency, frank
(01:18):
and Maven.
We have the blessing of workingwith so many cool companies
across, really across America,and we've been doing that going
on 15 years.
I have, and then the team hasbeen with us.
Caleb has almost been with us11 years.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Actually, by the time you listen to this, it'll be 11
.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Friday.
Last Friday.
Last Friday is your 11thanniversary.
What day is?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
it 11 years.
It's Monday.
That fateful day, when he metme in a taco spot and said okay,
Brandon didn't show me theoffice before I signed up to
work here.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I didn't have one.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
No.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
It'll be done soon.
But hey, today is actuallyabout a thing that we kind of
dance around a lot but wehaven't ever hit it on the head,
and that is the educate thepublic myth.
This is chapter six in theMaven Marketer, and somewhere
(02:15):
right now there is somebody in aconference room being sold
advertising and somebody issaying well, I just need to
educate my customers.
If I educate them, they'll buyfrom me.
Yep.
And it's a myth.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
We call it a myth because it is.
It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
There's three myths in the movie marketer.
But this is the third andprobably the most fatal.
Simply because you could havethe best media plan in the world
, you could have a really nicehealthy budget, you could have
good frequency, you could evenhave good targeting and all of
those things.
And if you make it your goal,as it often happens, to say,
(02:53):
well, I'm just going to tell thepeople about me, I'm going to
educate the public, all thatmoney didn't make a difference.
Why, caleb?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
The message is really that linchpin in all of your
marketing right?
You start with strategy message, then media messages, the.
That fulcrum makes the wholething work or not work.
And so, um, I think whathappens often in this case is um
, in that conference room,somebody signs up to do a
billboard radio ads, facebookads it doesn't really matter
(03:23):
what ad it is, but they'vesigned up.
And then the advertising, themedia rep whoever's writing it,
building it sits down and saysnow tell me about your business.
And that's the first questionthey ask Tell me about your
business.
And what happens when we dothat is then I'm going to say
well, we're a marketing agency,we help small businesses across
(03:47):
the country.
We, you know we would talkabout how we've done it
different times.
We'll talk about our trackrecord, we'll talk about our
case studies and all of thoseare good things.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
We've got 468 years of combined experience.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Even though Nate's only been doing it about 23
minutes now, he's been herelonger than that.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, Three, three of the 400.
Yeah, you got 23 minutes justin one podcast episode.
So no, we um.
What happens is you have thosemoments where they start asking
you about you and instead of notknowing that, and what they
really should be focusing isasking you about your customer.
That's right and that's.
The difference is, who are weactually talking to?
(04:28):
Learning about their needs,pains, hopes and fears.
And then how can our product?
This is where you're the thirdstep in this.
Where can my product satisfythose?
But you only ask about ityourself.
In relation to all of that, I'mjumping ahead, but that's the
high level we're going to coverhere in a minute.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, and then last is a reasonable.
It happens in a fraction of asecond, and it's not that any of
those people in the room aretrying to like write a bad ad.
It's not that any of thosepeople are trying to, you know,
waste money or anything likethat, but it is usually nobody's
job to advocate for thecustomer while the ad is being
written.
To advocate for the customerwhile the ad is being written
(05:08):
unless that person fanciesthemselves an ad writer or a
campaign creator is what weprefer, and so that's the myth.
You do not need to educate thepublic.
The public does not needinformation, they need
inspiration.
You do not need to inform yourcustomers, because to do so
assumes that somebody was justwaiting around to hear about
your ASE certification,mechanics, before they would buy
(05:29):
.
They go.
That was the thing.
Oh, finally I heard it.
Now I'll go down to the autoshop and buy something, right.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah, we're just around the corner in our
convenient locations.
Yeah, that may be true, butthat's not why I'm buying from
you.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
They were on 31st and Main.
Oh, that's what I needed tohear.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
It's like Well, of course I'm going to stop now.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
And it's not that those supporting details don't
have a place in the buyerjourney, it's that.
That's not the thing, man.
Our goal and your goal shouldbe to become the most liked and
trusted.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Liked and trusted when you have those two things,
you automatically becomewell-known and how do you become
liked and trusted Two thingsthat likable and trustable
people do say things like that.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Which is usually to talk about the other person,
right?
Nobody likes the personflapping their jaws.
Nobody likes that lifeinsurance salesman who sucks the
life out of a room.
You're going to need lifeinsurance because you're not
going to have any when he's donewith you and just talks about
himself, and so it's so naturaland so human.
And actually you're salespeopleand you probably do this
(06:36):
naturally anyway unless you're anarcissist and you might want
to go take the narcissist quizbut we automatically size up our
conversations and mold them tothe person we're across the
table from.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
So yeah, and I think at the end of once you've done
what we're about to talk about,once you've written a strong ad
and you've not educated thepublic about yourself strong ad
and you've not educated thepublic about yourself.
You should be able to go likeput your ad down, put on maybe a
little bit of a pessimisticbrain and show up, pick up your
(07:13):
ad again or watch the video orlisten to the radio spot or
whatever you've produced, andsay I'm Nancy, do I care?
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Do I even care and listen?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
to the whole thing and if at any point you got
bored, if at any point there wassomething that was like don't
who cares.
It fell flat.
Nancy needs to feel.
She needs to feel things.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, they're going to be those few magical moments
when the stars align andsomebody happened to need a
mechanic and they didn't know ofone and they happen to be right
in front of the television orradio when that ad came on.
But that is not what you canhinge the profitability campaign
on.
You have to hinge it onlong-term likability and recall,
(07:52):
and when we're not in the modefor information we will not pay
attention to it.
Logic does not move people,emotion does.
A lot of studies on this.
The thing that happens whenbrands or people or places or
things or experiences, the thingthat happens when those enter
long-term memory and they sortof bond to the part of our minds
(08:15):
that store long-term thingsinvoluntarily, is that we're
releasing oxytocin, chemicalsare firing in the brain.
And when those chemicals arefiring in the brain, the same
time that you do happen tomention your name or maybe maybe
it's a uh, a hook or or a phonenumber or website you wanted to
remember, if, if, if emotionsare high at that moment, you
(08:36):
have a really good chance of itbeing recalled.
If they're low, ie becauseyou've been pelting them with
information, kind of like I'mdoing right now you don't get
that benefit of long-term recall, and that's really the entire
reason to do advertising YepBranding of any kind.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
So get all that crap out of your ads.
I said it, I said crap.
Get it out of your ads.
Nobody cares about yourcredentials, all those initials
after your name.
The reality is you spent two,two, four, eight years trying to
get those things.
But unless you don't have,unless you don't have the
qualifications to you know ifyou're a surgeon you don't have,
(09:13):
you're not qualified to be asurgeon.
I do care about that, but Iassume that that's what you do.
Yeah.
There's, there are legalentities that would stop you
from doing that, otherwise, oh,you say you went to school for
12 years.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, but those don't mean anything to me.
They don't tell me.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
They mean something in the closing part of the sale.
They mean at the final safety,check the safety okay and
comparing maybe two providers atthe end.
But that is not in mass mediaOne of my favorite examples and
somebody here is going okay, butI don't have anything emotional
about my business.
One of the least emotionalbusinesses I can think of is a
(09:52):
body shop.
There's no joy in going to thebody shop.
You are not there, likely forany fun reason.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I was going to say.
There's some emotions maybetied to it.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
That's a bad day Sure , sure, okay.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
But you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
We had this.
It's a story I tell on theMaven Marketer and I remember a
long time ago we had this clientand he'd been advertising for a
long time.
Coolest dude ever.
He swept the floors of thisplace when he was 15, worked his
way up to buying it and workedthis place for like 30 years and
it was a great shop.
Okay, but guess what?
A lot of body shops are greatshops.
You bring them your car and itleaves better than it came in.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
It looks like it did when you bought it.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And so you know you're asking, we'll just call
him Bill.
We anonymize this fellowbecause he is a very successful
but very private individual.
But you know, it's theconversation.
Well, what's special about yourbusiness?
Well, you know, we are qualitysatisfaction guaranteed.
(10:47):
And we are yada yada, yadacertified and it's like, eh, eh,
everybody else says that tooright.
So and this is a key takeaway,for if you are an ad salesperson
or a consultant, you have tospend time.
And so I knew I didn't have thething.
I knew I didn't have the thing.
I knew I didn't have the ad andI was far enough along in my
(11:08):
career at this point I was like,okay, I'm not going to take
this guy's money and just talkabout him being a body shop down
on Elm and Main for all yourbody shop needs.
So I walked around with him foranother hour or so in a shop and
I said can I just watch whatgoes on here?
And I had some conversationswith the people that answered
(11:29):
the phone.
He let me back in the shop andtalked to his people.
Well, bill answers the phone.
And he's like yeah, no worries,dale will be here at 3 am.
And I was like what was thatall about?
He goes oh, somebody at frontcalled and said you know, shelly
minivan mom needs a car back bytomorrow at four.
(11:54):
And I said, no worries, it'llbe at 3 am.
And I said when do you guysopen?
He goes, oh, eight.
And I said what was that allabout?
Then he goes well, you know,dale has no problem coming in.
and you know, getting an extradone because we believe moms
ought to be back in theirminivans so they can get to the
soccer game.
And it was that thing he saidand it took hours to find.
(12:16):
And I'm like that's the thing.
And so not many body shops cansay that, that they have a Dale
that will come in at 3 am.
So we wrote the ad that wassomething like it's 3 am, you're
asleep, and so are all yourneighbors, and so are all the
other body shops in town, butDale's here fixing the van, so
Shelly can you know Get tosoccer, and that's an example of
(12:52):
what they were really selling.
Get to soccer good track record.
That story is what made thephones ring, that's he grew $2
million in sales over the nextyear after we ran campaigns like
that.
Love it, and so he thought,like most people think, it's
(13:13):
just I got to get my name outthere.
I got to educate the publicright and it wasn't that, it was
make them feel that you're theone that shares their values and
understands what it's like tobe them.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah, hey, quick timeout.
I want you to run over toYouTube if you're not already
there, drop a comment in thereand I want you to have two lines
, two sections.
It needs to say what am Iselling?
So, body shop, auto repair,whatever that could be and what
am I really selling?
And I want you to write foryour business.
(13:46):
What are you really selling?
It could be I'm selling gettingpeople back to their lives
quicker right.
Peel back those layers.
And it's not the surface valueof like a great car that runs
well.
That's not what it is.
It's, you know, being able toreliably get to work on time
every day or get my kids wherethey need to go, or whatever
(14:07):
that is.
So, uh, we would love to seethose in the comments.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Drop those in there.
You're not selling estate plans.
You're selling families thatdon't fight.
You're not selling eyeglasses.
You're selling being able tosee your daughter's wedding in
perfect detail.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, your kid learning in school without a
hindrance.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yes, yeah, you're not selling weight loss, you're
selling being able to chase yourgrandkids around the backyard,
right?
So figure that out, and that'sreally where you need to start.
And the two ingredients thatwill get you the farthest in
marketing and we say it forevery person that comes here you
have to have these twoingredients curiosity and
empathy.
You've got to be curious enoughto ask more, more, more, why,
(14:48):
why, why?
Know what actually is Shellygoing through, know what
actually is the customerthinking, not what sounds good
in an ad, because what soundsgood in an ad will get you
ignored.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
What feels good to the customer is what you're
after.
So quick note for ad writers orpeople who are responsible for
advertising working guys, thistakes time.
You cannot do this in yourtypical CNA.
Oh, we're going to go, listento the client and ask what does
the client need and then readthem back in 30 minutes, after
(15:21):
talking to them, their bulletpoints.
You have to spend timeuncovering this person, this
founder or this operator of thisbusiness.
You have to be around them longenough that they stop talking
about their product and you seetheir little quirks talking
(15:41):
about their product.
And you see their little quirks.
You see the little things thatthey say that they probably
picked up from their grandpa orsome vernacular where they're
from.
You see, just like I saw withBill you see these things that
they didn't even realize werespecial.
Yeah, you have to pull that outof them.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, and I think when you read back, if you do
the basic, tell me about yourbusiness, write down a bunch of
bullet points.
you ship that to them or youship an ad that's based on those
bullet points.
They'll be like yep, soundsgood, yeah, because it's about
my company, it's about me andthat feels good.
Right, I'm going to put that on.
Uh, everybody cares about whatI do as much as I, as I hope
(16:16):
that they do.
The reality is they don't, yeah, but you're going to get a.
Yes, you're going to get greatfirst-time approval on that ad
and then it's going to run, butthen you're going to get a lot
of questions in three or sixmonths because there's no
traction happening.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, nobody's saying they heard my ads because they
didn't.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
They're ignoring it.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
They heard three seconds of it and went back to
their life.
Yeah, we have spent.
We just brought on a client,which we don't do very often,
but we just brought one on andwe have spent 15 hours with this
client.
Yeah, Before we've ever evenfelt qualified to say okay,
here's the plan and we're goingto spend another two or three
(16:54):
hours with him picking up on hislittle isms before we feel
confident saying this is the,this is the plan you ought to
run.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
And the poor guy.
You know the meeting wasbasically over but we peppered
him with nine, 10, 15 morequestions for the next half hour
at the end of the meetingbecause we still wanted to like
hear more.
And he, he was digging intothat.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
So third lesson there if you are buying advertising
or if you have an agency, or ifyou have a consultant and
somebody is not taking that timeto dig into your unique
personality, your brandpersonality, the values that
actually make a difference, youmight have the wrong person.
Or you may need to send themthis episode, or you may need to
(17:38):
get them a copy of the Wizardof Ads, or you may need to say,
hey, I think we could spend somemore time.
I want you to feel comfortable,knowing me.
So let's just like the world isset up right now.
Listen to the client for anhour or two, Bring them a plan.
Everybody's excited.
They say yes and then producethe ad as fast as possible, and
(18:01):
that is the root of waste Waste.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah, yeah, that's it .
We don't believe in that stuffhere.
No, so we've got, we've got areally 20 questions for you.
Yeah, um, that will help youcut through the fluff, get to
the truth.
These are, these are versionsand types.
It's not.
You don't go through this listand read every question and get
every answer to it.
It's a nuance, it's aconversation, but these will
(18:24):
help you get started and we'regoing to just fly through them
real fast for you, but we'llalso put them in the show notes,
so you can grab it.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So number one is what is the customer actually doing
today?
I want you to imagine this is aperson who, if you're selling a
service or a high-end retailproduct or something that has
any longer buying cycle than acheeseburger which is most
products they're not buying youtoday, tomorrow or next month.
It's probably going to bemonths or years before they get
around to buying you.
So what is she doing and why inthe heck would she even stop to
(18:53):
listen to your ad?
This is where entertainment ithas to be a factor.
You have to.
You have to, as roy says itoffer her a more interesting
thought than what she waspreviously thinking.
So imagine where she is.
You can kind of think throughthe program it's on.
You can think, you know, is itmiddle of the day, afternoon,
late at night, early morning,driving to work, whatever it is?
(19:14):
That's where you start and youthink, okay, what would I have
to do to be entertaining?
Like if you were sitting therein the car next to that person.
What would you say?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Yeah, what would you do to be memorable?
What's the pain?
This is question number two.
What's the pain they feel thatyour product can solve?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
What are they feeling ?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
What pain in their life.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, they may not even know your product can fix
that Yep Number.
They may not even know yourproduct can fix that.
Number three is what are theyafraid might happen if they
don't fix that pain?
Fear is a really powerfulmotivator.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, Number four.
What do they wish was easier?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah, Losing weight probably right.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Could be.
Yeah, what do they wish waseasier?
Number five is what would theyGoogle late at night when this
thing is bothering them?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
I love that.
Or what's in their chat GPThistory.
Yeah yeah.
Modern version.
Yeah, that's the modern.
That's the 25 version.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Number six is what problem does your customer wake
up thinking about in the morningLike what's the first thing
that comes to their mind?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Number seven what's the moment in their day where
your product can make adifference?
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Imagine that, imagine that precipitating event and
like the actual place they are.
Maybe they're not even in front.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
If only I had that thing.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, they might not even be in front of the screen.
They might be out in thebackyard working or something
right.
Might be when they have friendsover Number eight.
If they got what you're selling, how would their life feel
different in 24 hours from now?
Describe that.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Number nine what fear is keeping them from pulling
the trigger?
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Objections yeah, Number 10 is what excuse are
they telling themselves for notacting yet?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Number 11,.
What do they think they needand what are you actually
selling?
We've already talked about that.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, yeah.
What are you really selling?
Number 12,?
What do they dream of doingwith the time, money or energy?
Your product will give themback.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
That's a great ad writing hack.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
What are you going to give them back to their life?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
You didn't just save them money, you bought them a
vacation.
Yeah, back to their life.
Yeah, you didn't just save themmoney, you bought them a
vacation, yeah 13,.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
When's the last time you heard a real story from a
customer and did you write thatdown, caleb?
Oh, did you write it down.
Write it down.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Hey, your salespeople have great intel.
If you have direct salespeopleon the sales floor or going to
people's houses or whatever thatis, they know a lot of these
answers to help you write astrong ad.
They know the needs, pains,hopes and fears of these
customers because they hear themand they have a rapid fire
(21:50):
objection processing machine.
That's happening because it'show they you know.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
There's a million dollar ad in the mind of your
salesperson.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yes, Because they had to sell it over and over and
over again.
That's right.
So ask them some of thesequestions, because they'll have
a hack right into the mind ofthe customer.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
It's not just how did that sale go?
It's like what was she askingabout?
What was she unsure about?
Yes, what did she see inanother company that she either
liked or didn't like?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
Another, question we asked is these are bonus
questions we're giving you rightnow.
Yeah, when they buy from you.
Why is it when they don't buyfrom you?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
why didn't they?
Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yeah, yeah, back to the list real quick here, number
14,.
If you took out your name, logoand phone number, would your ad
still be interesting?
Speaker 1 (22:41):
And would somebody still know that it was yours,
yes?
Or would they think, oh, that'ssome sort of company in the
category, but I couldn't tellyou whose it is.
This is where tonality, speed,vernacular Sounds, sound.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Music vernacular.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Sounds.
Sound, your visual presence,the style of your spokesperson,
music logos, rhythms or, sorry,music slogans, rhythms.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Any one of those things on its own doesn't make
the difference, but when youhave a unique blend, the herbs
and spices of your, of yourcampaign secret sauce.
Yeah, and I'll tell you, for us, like our, some of our favorite
ones.
There's actually 14 of thesethat we have in a guide that we
can put in the links.
It's 14 ways to make your adsmore interesting.
Some of our favorites are speed, music, rhythm, cadence, rhythm
(23:41):
, white space.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
And so you can pick any amount of them.
Just do them intentionally anddo them over and over and over
again, so that people come toknow your ads as more than just
ads.
They come to know it as yourscent.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Yeah, your style.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Yeah, your calling card, so to speak.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Number 15, does your ad sound like a human or does it
sound like an ad?
You can smell ad speak frommiles away and if you read it
and you're like, oh, it kind ofsounds like, you'll naturally
bend this way.
Unfortunately, because you'veheard so many bad ads, your
brain will naturally bend thisway.
Also, ChatGPT will naturallywrite this way unless you coach
(24:23):
it not to, because it thinksthat's what makes a good ad,
because it's been trained withso many bad ads.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Those are the kind of ads that are ignorable.
That's right so if you hearthose, uh, get them out of there
, cut them yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
What is one phrase in your ad that would make someone
roll their eyes or go man Idon't believe that.
Yeah, where's the BS meter.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
When does it go off?
Yeah, there's the BS meter.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, when does it go off?
Yeah, there's a boring spot.
Sometimes it's that you taketoo long to get to it.
You chop the top, as we sayaround here, or it's about 60%
of the way through your ad andyou should have gotten to it and
you missed it.
Yes.
You took just an extra twolines too long, yeah, so cut
them, guys.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
This sounds like, by the way.
The last question is if youwere sitting across from the
table from the customer, whatwould you say first?
If you were a real person, talkto one person, not don't
imagine talking to everybody,because you need to talk to
somebody and then everybody willhear it.
That's the eavesdropper effect.
Yeah, okay, this all seems likeokay, well, this is a long
(25:25):
process.
It should be Like empathy, sookay this all seems like okay,
well, this is a long process.
It should be Like empathy.
There's no greater gift you cangive to somebody than the time
to understand what they're goingthrough and meeting them where
they are.
If you do the same industryover and over, you'll the
(25:47):
customer.
Or why your client, if you'rethe consultant, is doing this
thing?
How does their uniquepersonality, their unique value
set beyond the product and thebasic voids that it fills?
And so you need to stop and askyour client why are you doing
(26:07):
this instead of something else?
How did you end up in thisbusiness?
Why didn't you go to school todo this instead?
What's something you'll alwaysdo, no matter what.
What's something you'll neverdo, no matter what.
And this is where you start topull out stories that their you
know dad told them like whenthey were young and they you can
(26:29):
start to peel back the layersand get to who they really are
yeah because when you can helpthe public see who your client
really is and they can see thatwho they really is is who they
really is see what I did there.
I think so, I think I followedit and it's the same as them.
That's when magic happens.
And that's when they go.
My guy is Bill.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
It doesn't matter if the other places are fancier.
It doesn't even matter ifthey're cheaper.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, and you want to get to the specifics.
These convictions, that's whatthese things find.
The always and the never, thoseare convictions, they're
passion.
It's like, ooh, we were goingto do this.
And if you can get to thespecifics of what those things
are, it's not just we'll alwaysdo the highest quality
(27:14):
craftsmanship.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
If you can say we will never.
We will always measure yourwindow to the nearest eighth of
an inch, so that you don't haveany gapping or trim extra trim
that's needed.
That's so much more specificthan uh.
We're gonna just have highquality craftsmanship we quality
standards guaranteed, right?
Speaker 1 (27:36):
um, we're.
We're articulating a really,really complex concept here,
like ad writing takes time.
You, you need to get reps, youneed to go try and try again.
I told somebody recently I waslike I don't think you realize
how many ads we write and throwaway because we go, okay, it had
(27:57):
maybe a few good bones but itdidn't hit the thing, and we're
constantly throwing the ad upagainst the wall, saying it out
loud I'm going Nate listen tothis ad.
Reading it to somebody read itto, multiple people, have a
circle of people you read it tobecause if and if you're not
like jacked to like go see whatcaleb's reaction is when you
(28:18):
read in the ad.
Um, like kind of my barometeris like if I didn't make you
laugh, or like you know, if youdidn't make yourself laugh a
little bit when you wrote it.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, if you'renot laughing or if you're not
going.
Oh yeah, that clarifyingsomething really, really
specific.
You don't have the right ad andall that is the inverse of the
(28:39):
false assumption that all wehave to do is educate the public
.
And I heard that a bunch, abunch of times when I was early
on in advertising and thosehappened to be the bunch, a
bunch of times that the campaigndidn't work.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
They just know about me.
They'll buy from me.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
And yeah, so your name ain't got nothing to do
with it.
It's them and we knew that.
And that's just a fancier wayto say it's the message, but
don't just say it's the messageactually means.
And real messages talk topeople about their values, their
voids, their needs, andhopefully these questions will
(29:12):
give you some extra tools tocrack open and find that.
But it does take time and it'sworth the time because it's the
difference in the spend goingflat or you're making a bunch of
money.
Yep.
Hey, if you need some extra help, if you'd like some just a fun
(29:36):
thing to do and bring yourcampaigns with another group of
people that'll give feedback.
We want to be that group ofpeople.
We have started the MavenMarketing Mastermind.
Right now you can get an intropricing 99 bucks a month and
that is your chance to get, say,access.
Like ooh, it's exclusive access, but there are limited hours in
(29:56):
a day here.
We've done this podcast for twoyears and it's tough.
Like thanks to Nate the cameraguy, we get it done every week,
but it's tough for us to even dothis.
So we've made a way for anybody.
You've got a small business.
You've got an advertisingproduct you're selling.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
You've got just a creative thing you want to bring
.
Maybe you're in-house marketing.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, in-house marketing.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
We want to help you with that, and that's what the
Mastermind is designed for.
We meet twice a month, startingin June, which is now and it's
a free-for-all.
Hey, I'm facing this objectionfrom a client.
Hey, I don't think this ad isworking.
Hey, my Facebook ad is notworking here.
Hey, my Google ads areunderperforming here.
Whatever is hindering yourgrowth or frustrating you in the
(30:42):
world of marketing?
Join us.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Caleb and.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I will just sit here and have conversations like
we're doing now.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
We'll jump in and even if you don't have anything
to bring that week or that time,you learn a lot just by seeing
it through somebody else'sproblems.
You may run into that exactsituation next week.
Or maybe you didn't realizeyour you know Facebook ad
campaign wasn't performing andyou were looking at it the wrong
way.
Or or you know, you learn fromother people's um questions as
(31:10):
well.
Um, and beyond that, there'llbe a community uh aspect to this
where, um, some of our, ourmavens, but especially the other
small business owners andmarketers, um will be a part of
it, yeah.
And um, they'll really.
I think we'll be able to swapideas, share experiences that
we've had.
I think it's going to be areally cool thing.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
So it's mavenmethodtrainingcom.
You can sign up for that and bepart of the first mastermind we
would love to have you.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
It's going to be awesome.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Hey, if you enjoyed this, please like comment.
That would be a huge gift to usand share it with somebody who
you think also could hear it usand share it with somebody who
you think also could hear it,don't forget.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Talking to you media sales managers what are you
really selling?
I want to hear it.
What are you really selling?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah, what are you really selling in the comments?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Drop it in there Like subscribe all those good things
.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yes, we'll be back here every single Monday
answering your real lifemarketing questions, because
marketers who cannot teach youwhy Are just a fancy lie.
Have are just a fancy lie.
Have a great week.
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