October 13, 2025 • 25 mins
Sales isn’t the problem. Focus is.
If your sales team is following the process but still missing the mark, this episode will hit home.
Brandon sits down with sales coach Ian Nix to uncover why most salespeople lose deals, and how to fix it without becoming “that” pushy salesperson.
They unpack three quiet killers of sales performance that cost businesses thousands every month and how to replace them with simple, customer-first conversations that close more deals with less pressure. Inside this episode:
- Quoting before understanding
- Pushing the quote
- Quoting and hoping
If your marketing’s working but your closing ratio isn’t, this episode might change everything.
For entrepreneurs wanting to grow without wasting money, join the Maven Marketing Mastermind → https://www.mavenmethodtraining.com
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Host: Brandon Welch
Co-Host: Kyle DeVries
Executive Producer: Carter Breaux
Audio/Video Producer: Nate the Camera Guy
#SalesTraining #SalesProcess #ClosingRate #SmallBusinessGrowth #MarketingPodcast #CustomerExperience #MavenMethod
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ian Nix (00:00):
Process is not the enemy.
Self-focus is probably theenemy.
If your process is all aboutfocusing on the customer, then
you're fine.
Use the process.
If your process is makingpeople worry about the next
thing that they need to say,then the focus is on them.
It's on the company rather thanon the customer.
And that's the surest wayyou've got to lose that
(00:21):
customer.
Brandon Welch (00:26):
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm joined by a very special
guest today, Mr.
Ian Nix.
Ian Nix (00:36):
Glad to be here, Brandon.
Brandon Welch (00:37):
Well, you're going to learn about Ian in just
a second, but just as areminder, uh, this is a little
bit off of uh our normal topic.
Um, we're talking more aboutsales today than we are
marketing.
Uh, but the reason we're doingthat is that this is the place
where we eliminate waste inadvertising.
That is our number one thingthat we do here inside uh our
agency.
Uh we are on a we are on aninternal mission to do more with
(00:59):
less um so that you can growyour business and so you can
ultimately do the things inlife.
We call it the big dream thatyou want to do.
Like we're not just here towork to produce money.
There are there areconsequences to big dreams and
consequences to the things we doin our business.
And so we're just to the moonexcited about doing that for
(01:21):
owner operators.
And so often uh when you'redoing the marketing things
right, and if you've beenlistening to this podcast, Ian,
you are doing the marketingthings right.
Oh, I'm killing it.
Ian is.
Ian's killing it, he's doingall the right things in
marketing.
Uh, but it's really not thatthat takes it to the finish
line.
It's when you hand that off tothe sales process.
And I would say at least halfof the time when we are
(01:43):
diagnosing some you knowlackluster result in a in a
marketing equation, they askabout the media, they ask about
the money being spent, and wehold that uh accountable all the
way down to the salesperson.
And very often a five or tenpercent difference in the
salesperson can change theprofitability of the entire
(02:05):
investment.
And so um I'm so glad you'rehere.
Uh personal story.
Uh I I actually I'm actually alittle bit allergic to sales
trainers because I've I'veworked with or in around in or
around them, and I've seenclients waste a lot of money uh
on them over the years.
Ian Nix (02:23):
And there's so that's why you were avoiding my call.
Yeah, that's right.
Yes.
Brandon Welch (02:27):
Yeah, you know what?
Honestly, the the person thatIan was helping was a dear
friend of mine, and somebodywhose opinion I hold in very
high regard.
And so that's probably that'sprobably why like it took three
months instead of you know 12 toget together.
Um, not that I'm thatimportant, but just that um
(02:49):
there's a lot of times I getthose calls of like you gotta
meet this salesperson, andthere's just a you know,
probably 10 or 15 emails a dayof somebody trying to do that
because we are connected to alot of business owners.
And this one that um likeconnected me to Ian, uh, not
only do I have a very highopinion of he is like the exact
opposite of somebody who wouldever hire a coach or a
(03:11):
consultant in in that form.
And so when he said you gottatalk to this guy, I'm like,
what's going on?
So um I saw Ian take a very,very profitable, well-trained,
well-tuned sales team and and beextremely additive to it.
And and close rates, I've seenhim, you know, 20, 30% increase
(03:33):
what a what an already goodsales team has been able to do.
And so uh when I when I sawthat for myself, I knew he had
to be here.
And so um you're gonna learnhis brilliance uh by the end of
this uh podcast.
But I said, hey, what will wetalk about?
And uh I was like, what whatare the biggest reasons people
are failing?
And he's he spat out threereasons I'm like, people need to
(03:54):
hear that.
So that's why you're heretoday.
And um, what do you have to sayfor yourself?
Ian Nix (04:00):
Well, uh, I'm just uh really grateful that you would
have me on here.
Um Franken Maven's uh big namein marketing, uh and uh it's
it's an honor to be here, man.
Brandon Welch (04:11):
Yeah.
Well, this is the uncomfortabletime where I get to look you in
the eyes and tell the worldabout you.
Ian Nix (04:17):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (04:18):
So who is Ann Nix?
What it says here on this paperis that uh you have two decades
of experience in uh leadingsales teams.
Is that true?
Ian Nix (04:26):
Yes.
Brandon Welch (04:27):
Uh leading sales teams shaping organizational
culture and helping owneroperators unlock the next level
of growth through moreproductive conversations and
deeper alignment.
Ian Nix (04:36):
Wow, that was nice.
Brandon Welch (04:37):
Sounds fancy, doesn't it?
We have some good writersaround here.
Um outside of work, Ian's storyis as compelling as his
professional track record.
He once convinced a beautifulwoman to move from Barcelona,
Spain to Bolivar, Missouri andmarry him.
Ian Nix (04:52):
I did.
And she's still with me.
Brandon Welch (04:54):
Wow.
That's how you that's how youknow he's practicing what he
preaches.
Uh they have three beautifulchildren.
On weekends, you're a soccercoach, aren't you?
Yeah.
You'll find Ian um coachingsoccer, riding horses, or gently
serenading his wife at thepiano.
Ian Nix (05:08):
That's good.
I like that.
Brandon Welch (05:10):
Uh we'll ask Jenny about that.
But um, so Ian is a master ofmany things, and today he's
gonna help us um inject somewisdom into our sales teams that
are just gonna leverage thatadvertising dollar we're
spending.
And so um if I asked you, like,what is the biggest reason
(05:31):
sales teams are not closingdeals?
What's the first one that comesto mind?
Ian Nix (05:36):
Well, if I could just take a step back for one second,
um your clients are already andand listeners to this podcast
um are already doing a great jobmaking sales, they've got great
sales teams.
Um I'm not here uh to tellthose people how to do their
jobs.
Um I'm here as a guy whosuffered for a lot of years in
(05:58):
sales.
Um and I feel like I foundthrough all that suffering and
no pressure path um that startedmaking me a lot more money.
So um now coming to yourquestion, I think number one of
those three things is quotingand hoping.
So um if I could, I'll tell astory around that for you.
(06:18):
We love stories.
So there's a while back I wasworking with a guy who did deck
restoration.
Um so people call him, he showsup, he uh takes a look at the
problems, builds a quote, andsends a quote over to the
prospect.
I mean, pretty familiarprocess.
Yeah.
Um and so sometimes he'd winthe project, a lot of the times
(06:39):
he wouldn't.
When we looked at the processtogether, he realized he could
win a lot more if he'd dig alittle deeper.
Um so he started asking morequestions, uh, starting with one
that's so big and obvious uh hehadn't even thought of it
before.
Hey man, this deck is in decentshape.
Um why wouldn't you just handlethis yourself?
Because the prospect can inmany cases, right?
(07:02):
Um like he could go to thehardware store and and knock it
out over a weekend.
Brandon Welch (07:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, same thing in um inmarketing.
Hey, you're a smart businessowner, right?
Why wouldn't you just whywouldn't you just do your own
marketing advertising?
And they certainly could.
Right.
Especially if they're listeningto the podcast, right?
Ian Nix (07:23):
Yeah, and so and sometimes the prospect is gonna
answer that question like, youknow what?
Yeah, maybe I am maybe I shoulddo that.
And that's the fear.
Right.
Brandon Welch (07:32):
Yeah.
That's counterintuitive, right?
Because we want to we want themto think, well, they called us
here because they need us andthey have to need us for our
identity to be secure in whatwe're doing, right?
Ian Nix (07:41):
Yeah, and and by the way, the fear is well founded.
Sometimes the prospect is gonnasay that.
Um the thing is, what you'relikely to find way more often is
the prospect is going to saysomething along the lines of
listen, I was supposed to be Iwas supposed to have done this
(08:04):
like three months ago, and mywife's family is coming to
visit, and she is not happy, andI need it done now, which is
what this guy started to see.
When he would say somethingthat was uh counterintuitive to
say, which is uh gosh, like youcould probably handle this.
(08:24):
People started arguing with himand going, No, I can't.
This is why I need you.
Brandon Welch (08:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So for some of our window guys,that could be, well, these
windows don't look that bad.
What what's got you wanting toreplace them, right?
Exactly.
That that's totallycounterintuitive because you're
what you're really doing thoughis you're giving them maybe
safety and and exposing theirreal pain.
Would you would you agree withthat?
Yeah, exactly.
Ian Nix (08:49):
So you're digging a little deeper than just saying,
oh yeah, obviously this uh thisdeck has a lot of problems.
Boy, I'm gonna go build thisquote and I'm gonna send the
quote and they're gonna love it.
You're digging a little deeperand going, well, why why me?
Why now?
Brandon Welch (09:05):
Yeah.
In that process, he found outthe real pain was speed and
hassle.
That's it.
And not having the projectdrawn out for you know, six
months with junk everywhere thatthe in-laws were gonna see,
right?
Ian Nix (09:20):
That's it.
And and a little bonus there,right?
Um the guy goes, you know, mymy wife's family's coming in and
this guy I'm working with, hegoes, Well, you're not trying to
get me to handle this beforethey arrive, are you?
Because I mean, I'm booking outsix weeks, and now you can see
just margins going up.
(09:42):
As as he's saying somethinglike that, margins going up for
him.
This guy's like, I gotta, Igotta have you.
Can what what is it gonna take?
Brandon Welch (09:50):
Yeah.
Permission to charge a premium.
Yeah, yeah.
Ian Nix (09:53):
So moral of the story, just asking a few more questions
to understand what yourprospects' real problems are,
it's gonna save you time andit's gonna make you a lot more
money.
Brandon Welch (10:02):
Yeah, the yeah, the problem, the presenting
problem is never the problem sooften.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (10:08):
Uh that's any line of consulting.
But if you're trying to trainyour sales team to be
consultants, it's not well, whatfeatures do you want in your
XYZ?
It's that's a great question.
Why are you doing this alltogether?
Right.
Love that.
So um what happened as a resultof that?
Ian Nix (10:26):
I mean, yeah, he started making a lot more money.
Winning more quotes, um, goingthe opposite way of what
prospects expected him to go.
Um winning more quotes at ahigher margin.
Brandon Welch (10:40):
So I want to I want to talk about that higher
margin because it doesn't umit's not just on the top line
sales that you get.
It's um that like that'sprobably anybody can wish and
and and you know imagine whathappens when you uh get a higher
sales close rate cut.
So anybody can feel a higherprofit margin when you get a
(11:01):
higher sales close rate, right?
That just feels better.
Uh and what you're just sayingis you know, they're uncovering
pain that they can sort of buildmargin with, that's great too.
Um but I think some one of theun most underrealized um gains
when sales improves, like theefficiency of it, is time and
energy that gets to be spent onthe other things.
(11:23):
That's it.
And so when you've got a guywho's psychologically being
drained because of 30% of hispeople are saying yes and 70%
are saying no, that guy becomesrelatively like useless for
other tasks and follow throughand administrative stuff.
And I see a lot of a lot of ourguys who have you'll have a
really talented salesperson, butthey you know they suck at some
(11:43):
of that other that other stuff.
Ian Nix (11:44):
So the higher win rate uh it uh produces so much uh
benefit beyond just the thesalesperson making more money,
the business making more money.
Brandon Welch (11:56):
So that's quoting before understanding.
That's it.
That's your first answer.
Ian Nix (12:01):
Yeah.
So number two, uh pushing thequote.
So um, and another little storyview for you.
Um when my wife and I movedinto the house uh that we're in
a few years ago, uh, we came inknowing the roof needed to be
replaced.
Um and we waited on a hailstorm and God sent the hail, and
thank God.
Um so guy comes out, he gets upon the roof, comes back down to
(12:25):
show me and my wife pictures,and then he launches into his
whole sales-y thing.
Okay.
Um, here's all the happycustomers we have.
Why do you think they chose us?
He's got pictures of them, he'sgot a folder.
Folders aren't bad, picturesaren't bad.
Okay.
Um, but he's trying to, youknow, what he's trying to do in
that moment is push us into asale with all of his wonderful
(12:48):
social proof.
Okay.
Um, then he goes, you know, I'dlike for you to go ahead and
sign this right here.
Uh states that uh if you decideto go with us, we'll be able to
work with your insurance.
That's called a trial close,right?
If I sign that right there, I'mmore likely, and you've seen
this in car dealerships too,right?
Yeah, if I get that number thatyou just said and take it to my
(13:10):
manager and he approves it, areyou gonna sign right here that
you're gonna sign?
Yeah.
Trial close.
Okay.
Um, but uh, but here's thekicker.
He goes, at the end of allthat, he goes, I'm gonna give
you some homework.
I want you to call one of thesepeople and you ask them why
they decided to go with us.
It's just like, dude.
Meanwhile, you know, the guyreeked of cigarettes.
(13:32):
Um, he hadn't asked permissionto get in our personal space
like that.
And we're sitting there going,like, this is you know, what do
you think?
The first thing I did, that guyleaves the house.
What do you think the firstthing my wife and I did was?
Thank God he's gone.
High-fived.
And call the next roofer.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, that's it.
(13:53):
Um, so you know, the moral ofthe story there is you gotta
stop pushing people into thesale.
Um, it'll work sometimes.
You'll you'll find people whoare willing to be pushed.
They're probably not gonna berepeat customers.
Brandon Welch (14:08):
Yeah, or or probably what happens is they're
just they just don't have theenergy to go through that with
somebody else.
And it's like that's kind ofespecially in home improvement
sales, we see that so much.
It's the experience that nobodywants uh and they wouldn't
wish, you know, on somebody theydon't even like.
But um why is that stilltraditional wisdom inside the
(14:29):
home improvement sales industry?
Really a lot of them.
Ian Nix (14:31):
Yeah, honestly, I think people are trained by how
they've been sold to.
I I think it's uh badsalespeople out there beget bad
salespeople.
They think they have to bepushy.
Um, and you see it in in a lotof other aspects in sales,
people don't feel like they canbe themselves.
They feel so bad about being insales.
(14:52):
They, you know, their theirimpression, if you if you do
word association with them andsay, I'm gonna say salesperson.
Now you give me the first fewwords that come to your brain.
They're like pushy, sleazy,used car, right?
And so they have all of thisstuff about how bad it is to be
a salesperson.
So they think they have to besomeone else, or they think they
(15:14):
have to be pushy.
They've learned by how they'vebeen sold to, and and now
they're just kind ofperpetuating the problem.
Brandon Welch (15:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Same thing happens inadvertising.
When people go to write an ad,they they think it has to be
written like every ad they'veever heard, which is usually bad
form, right?
Yeah.
The same thing.
Wow.
So I read something the otherday, um, I think it was
Salesforce, that said 59% ofconsumers don't feel like their
salesperson is tailoring thesale to them.
(15:44):
They're like on a pre-writtenagenda.
And I see a lot of uh, frankly,some of our bigger and better
clients really like trying tostandardize that sales script.
And like it's like that's thething they push.
It's like be on the script oryou're gonna get fired.
Like I have I've I've got aclient that like actually
listened and recorded calls andhad people employed full time
(16:05):
just to say you went off script,you're screwing it up.
Um, where does that line go?
Because business owners thatwant to scale want control, um,
but we know that that's notproducing the best result.
So to somebody who's wanting tostandardize and do sales
training like on a weekly basis,um how do they how do they
(16:26):
train this this sort of theprinciples you're talking about
while still having some level ofstandardization?
Ian Nix (16:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I would say um process isnot the enemy.
Um self-focus is probably theenemy, right?
So if your process is yoursales process in particular, is
all about focusing on thecustomer, then you're fine.
Use the process.
Um if your process is makingpeople uh worry about the next
(16:56):
thing that they need to say in agiven moment, then the focus is
on them.
It's on the company rather thanon the customer.
And that's the surest wayyou've got to lose that
customer.
Brandon Welch (17:08):
That's a really important distinction.
Like train people how to focuson other people, not to train on
the actual bullet points andthe words said.
Okay, so so far we've gotquoting before, understanding,
and then pushing the quote.
What else you got?
Ian Nix (17:22):
Yeah, so the the final one is quoting and hoping.
So I'll go back to that deckguy.
Um, this is kind of what hisprocess was.
He was assessing the work to bedone, uh, figuring out what
labor and materials would be,uh, working up the quote,
delivering the quote to thecustomer, and hoping the
customer chose him.
(17:43):
So we call that quoting andhoping, or in some circles,
smoking hopium.
Brandon Welch (17:49):
Um smoking hopium.
Yeah.
Ian Nix (17:51):
And so and the thing is, everybody does this,
especially in the trades.
Um, everybody's driving aroundin a truck that says free
estimate on it, or it says it ontheir social media, and that's
fine.
Brandon Welch (18:03):
You know, I don't know that it is actually.
Oh, okay.
Free estimates are fine, butbut the amount of people that
assume that that's like a goodcall to action, call for a free
estimate.
Ian Nix (18:13):
Yeah.
So again, I'm not here to tellthe people who are doing that
that they have to stop thatright now.
You might be, which is fine.
Um uh, but instead of you know,just sending the estimate, I
just want uh your listeners toconsider one little tweak.
(18:34):
Um what if you ask them whattheir next steps would be once
you send the quote over?
So instead of I'm gonna goahead and send this quote to you
as soon as I get it worked up,what if you tag something on the
end of that where you go once Isend this quote over, what's
your next step gonna be?
(18:55):
You know, so many salespeopleout there are just sending the
quote and then wondering whenthe customer is gonna get back
in touch with them or if theyare going to.
Brandon Welch (19:14):
Because they're giving you permission in that
answer, right?
That's right.
That's right.
Okay, so I understand thatthat's great for like people who
are gotta go do the work andproduce the quote.
What about my guys and galsthat are like right in the home
right there and they're like,cool, this is what it's gonna
cost?
Um there's there's not like afollow-up moment baked in in the
(19:35):
process.
What should they do?
Then a lot of them are saying,like, well, I gotta talk to my
spouse, or okay, I'll call youback.
And they're setting up for thatquoting and hoping or smoking
hopium or hoping smoking orwhatever you said.
Um, what do those guys do thatare they're a little more the
end is sort of like evident thatthey've done their process.
Ian Nix (19:54):
Yeah, it's no different.
You're still gonna ask, um, youknow, what what's gonna be
next?
What do you think she's likelyto say?
Um, how do you guys typicallymake this kind of a decision?
Brandon Welch (20:04):
Oh, that's that's really good.
Yeah, how do you guys typicallymake that kind of decision?
That's really good.
They're gonna give you thewiring, they're gonna give you
the script, they're gonna giveyou what you need to follow up.
That's it.
Um that is one of the mostthat's one of the most brilliant
things I've heard.
Um that one thing, and I'm I'myou know who who you are that
I'm talking to you.
(20:24):
I've got a guy that uh that hasthis really big issue right now
that's like of you know, theguy's just not getting follow-up
calls.
Um that one thing, like, how doyou typically make this type of
decision?
That's such an empathetic,really it's a compassionate way
to sell too.
Ian Nix (20:41):
And it's focused on them, right?
Instead of being focused on me,and I've got to make this
quote, and boy, I hope I hopethey like me enough to do
business with me.
Brandon Welch (20:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, we've known for a long timethat people don't buy for the
actual product.
They very rarely buy for theprice.
There's some there's some newerdata that said like well over
50% of people just buy simplybecause of the experience.
And if they felt good, they'regonna let go of the money.
And the logical, the logicalreasons, uh Zig Ziglar said
(21:11):
people don't buy for logicalreasons, they buy for emotional
reasons.
And the emotional reason canliterally be the sales process
you just produced.
That's and so we we try to makethis, and this is to your
point, like about us and aboutthis tactical thing I have to
do.
And it's really just like readthe emotions of your person.
When you got Jenny to fly overhere from Spain, there was no
(21:32):
there was nothing logical aboutthat, was there?
Not at all.
Did you use the did you usethis on her?
Yeah, I wish I knew thatprocess.
How do you typically how do youtypically make this type of
decision?
Right.
Um, it must have it must havebeen your piano playing.
So yeah.
Um, so we've talked about thedifference between um
testimonials and social proof.
Talked about quoting thembefore you understand them.
(21:53):
We've talked about pushing thatpushy quote, and now we've
talked about quoting and hoping.
A lot of this res re revolvesaround the moment you force the
product in front of them andjust taking a little pause and
building some glue between that.
Would you would you say that'sa good bucket to put all of this
in?
Ian Nix (22:11):
And putting the focus on them.
Let the let your focus be thecustomer and what the customer
needs and how you can help them.
Brandon Welch (22:19):
Everybody's heard that a million times.
Um, what is the thing you'regonna say that's gonna make the
difference um to the boss that'spushing the salesperson team?
Because they're wanting thethings I hear is they want them
to be more accountable.
They want them to be moreactive.
And maybe those things arefine.
Maybe, maybe there's some lazysalespeople out there that got
(22:39):
to be, you know, kicked once ina while to get up off the off
the uh off the chair.
But um, what would you tell thebusiness owner who is maybe
part of this problem?
Ian Nix (22:51):
I'd say you've got a lifetime of doing it your way.
Why not try thecounterintuitive thing?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Hmm.
Brandon Welch (22:58):
Yeah, you've got the you've got the proof.
I promise Ian's clients uh togive you some social proof would
say that it's working for them.
If you've ever not wanted to bethe salesy guy or the pushy
team, and more importantly, ifyou just wanted to get more um
out of your leads, I thinkyou're gonna have to stand out
and just violating thatstereotypical uh role comes in,
(23:19):
comes just in that moment, thatthat tiny pause before they're
doing the thing you want them todo.
It's putting the focus on thatother person.
So I think that's brilliant.
I think if you're able to pullthat out and actually embed it
into your sales teams, you willbe uh calling and begging for
Ian's number, but um, you're notgonna have to beg for it
because we're gonna we're gonnagive you a way um to work with
(23:42):
Ian.
Um if you want uh just kind ofa free assessment of your sales
process and how things aregoing, he has graciously offered
to do that uh for three peoplewho reach out just to have a
conversation.
Um is that true?
Yes.
Did I you got that?
Okay.
So um, you know, Ian Ian gets aI happen to know he gets a
(24:05):
premium in the marketplacebecause it's instantly valuable.
And imagine what a what even a5% increase in your sales
process would do.
And he he delivers on that.
Um but first three people thatreach out to Ian at Iannix.com,
is that right?
That's right.
Uh he's gonna give you a freeaudit of your sales process.
Um, and you're gonna walk awaywith like some instant things
(24:28):
you can do to put the focus onthe customer.
Um pair that with these threethings, and you're gonna have a
very, very profitable 2026 andbeyond.
Ian, thank you so much forsharing our mission.
Thank you so much for sharingthe heart to help local and
entrepreneurial businesses justget more with less.
I know that is what drives you,it's what drives us.
It's what drives this podcast.
(24:49):
That's why we show up everyweek uh and just give you our
very best uh that we have tooffer.
And so we will be back hereevery week, like we have for the
last three years, um, answeringyour real life marketing
questions because marketers andsalespeople who can't teach you
why are just a fancy lie.
Thank you so much.
Have a great week.
Process is not the enemy.
Self-focus is probably theenemy.
If your process is all aboutfocusing on the customer, then
you're fine.
Use the process.
If your process is makingpeople worry about the next
thing that they need to say,then the focus is on them.
It's on the company rather thanon the customer.
And that's the surest wayyou've got to lose that
(00:21):
customer.
Brandon Welch (00:26):
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm joined by a very special
guest today, Mr.
Ian Nix.
Ian Nix (00:36):
Glad to be here, Brandon.
Brandon Welch (00:37):
Well, you're going to learn about Ian in just
a second, but just as areminder, uh, this is a little
bit off of uh our normal topic.
Um, we're talking more aboutsales today than we are
marketing.
Uh, but the reason we're doingthat is that this is the place
where we eliminate waste inadvertising.
That is our number one thingthat we do here inside uh our
agency.
Uh we are on a we are on aninternal mission to do more with
(00:59):
less um so that you can growyour business and so you can
ultimately do the things inlife.
We call it the big dream thatyou want to do.
Like we're not just here towork to produce money.
There are there areconsequences to big dreams and
consequences to the things we doin our business.
And so we're just to the moonexcited about doing that for
(01:21):
owner operators.
And so often uh when you'redoing the marketing things
right, and if you've beenlistening to this podcast, Ian,
you are doing the marketingthings right.
Oh, I'm killing it.
Ian is.
Ian's killing it, he's doingall the right things in
marketing.
Uh, but it's really not thatthat takes it to the finish
line.
It's when you hand that off tothe sales process.
And I would say at least halfof the time when we are
(01:43):
diagnosing some you knowlackluster result in a in a
marketing equation, they askabout the media, they ask about
the money being spent, and wehold that uh accountable all the
way down to the salesperson.
And very often a five or tenpercent difference in the
salesperson can change theprofitability of the entire
(02:05):
investment.
And so um I'm so glad you'rehere.
Uh personal story.
Uh I I actually I'm actually alittle bit allergic to sales
trainers because I've I'veworked with or in around in or
around them, and I've seenclients waste a lot of money uh
on them over the years.
Ian Nix (02:23):
And there's so that's why you were avoiding my call.
Yeah, that's right.
Yes.
Brandon Welch (02:27):
Yeah, you know what?
Honestly, the the person thatIan was helping was a dear
friend of mine, and somebodywhose opinion I hold in very
high regard.
And so that's probably that'sprobably why like it took three
months instead of you know 12 toget together.
Um, not that I'm thatimportant, but just that um
(02:49):
there's a lot of times I getthose calls of like you gotta
meet this salesperson, andthere's just a you know,
probably 10 or 15 emails a dayof somebody trying to do that
because we are connected to alot of business owners.
And this one that um likeconnected me to Ian, uh, not
only do I have a very highopinion of he is like the exact
opposite of somebody who wouldever hire a coach or a
(03:11):
consultant in in that form.
And so when he said you gottatalk to this guy, I'm like,
what's going on?
So um I saw Ian take a very,very profitable, well-trained,
well-tuned sales team and and beextremely additive to it.
And and close rates, I've seenhim, you know, 20, 30% increase
(03:33):
what a what an already goodsales team has been able to do.
And so uh when I when I sawthat for myself, I knew he had
to be here.
And so um you're gonna learnhis brilliance uh by the end of
this uh podcast.
But I said, hey, what will wetalk about?
And uh I was like, what whatare the biggest reasons people
are failing?
And he's he spat out threereasons I'm like, people need to
(03:54):
hear that.
So that's why you're heretoday.
And um, what do you have to sayfor yourself?
Ian Nix (04:00):
Well, uh, I'm just uh really grateful that you would
have me on here.
Um Franken Maven's uh big namein marketing, uh and uh it's
it's an honor to be here, man.
Brandon Welch (04:11):
Yeah.
Well, this is the uncomfortabletime where I get to look you in
the eyes and tell the worldabout you.
Ian Nix (04:17):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (04:18):
So who is Ann Nix?
What it says here on this paperis that uh you have two decades
of experience in uh leadingsales teams.
Is that true?
Ian Nix (04:26):
Yes.
Brandon Welch (04:27):
Uh leading sales teams shaping organizational
culture and helping owneroperators unlock the next level
of growth through moreproductive conversations and
deeper alignment.
Ian Nix (04:36):
Wow, that was nice.
Brandon Welch (04:37):
Sounds fancy, doesn't it?
We have some good writersaround here.
Um outside of work, Ian's storyis as compelling as his
professional track record.
He once convinced a beautifulwoman to move from Barcelona,
Spain to Bolivar, Missouri andmarry him.
Ian Nix (04:52):
I did.
And she's still with me.
Brandon Welch (04:54):
Wow.
That's how you that's how youknow he's practicing what he
preaches.
Uh they have three beautifulchildren.
On weekends, you're a soccercoach, aren't you?
Yeah.
You'll find Ian um coachingsoccer, riding horses, or gently
serenading his wife at thepiano.
Ian Nix (05:08):
That's good.
I like that.
Brandon Welch (05:10):
Uh we'll ask Jenny about that.
But um, so Ian is a master ofmany things, and today he's
gonna help us um inject somewisdom into our sales teams that
are just gonna leverage thatadvertising dollar we're
spending.
And so um if I asked you, like,what is the biggest reason
(05:31):
sales teams are not closingdeals?
What's the first one that comesto mind?
Ian Nix (05:36):
Well, if I could just take a step back for one second,
um your clients are already andand listeners to this podcast
um are already doing a great jobmaking sales, they've got great
sales teams.
Um I'm not here uh to tellthose people how to do their
jobs.
Um I'm here as a guy whosuffered for a lot of years in
(05:58):
sales.
Um and I feel like I foundthrough all that suffering and
no pressure path um that startedmaking me a lot more money.
So um now coming to yourquestion, I think number one of
those three things is quotingand hoping.
So um if I could, I'll tell astory around that for you.
(06:18):
We love stories.
So there's a while back I wasworking with a guy who did deck
restoration.
Um so people call him, he showsup, he uh takes a look at the
problems, builds a quote, andsends a quote over to the
prospect.
I mean, pretty familiarprocess.
Yeah.
Um and so sometimes he'd winthe project, a lot of the times
(06:39):
he wouldn't.
When we looked at the processtogether, he realized he could
win a lot more if he'd dig alittle deeper.
Um so he started asking morequestions, uh, starting with one
that's so big and obvious uh hehadn't even thought of it
before.
Hey man, this deck is in decentshape.
Um why wouldn't you just handlethis yourself?
Because the prospect can inmany cases, right?
(07:02):
Um like he could go to thehardware store and and knock it
out over a weekend.
Brandon Welch (07:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, same thing in um inmarketing.
Hey, you're a smart businessowner, right?
Why wouldn't you just whywouldn't you just do your own
marketing advertising?
And they certainly could.
Right.
Especially if they're listeningto the podcast, right?
Ian Nix (07:23):
Yeah, and so and sometimes the prospect is gonna
answer that question like, youknow what?
Yeah, maybe I am maybe I shoulddo that.
And that's the fear.
Right.
Brandon Welch (07:32):
Yeah.
That's counterintuitive, right?
Because we want to we want themto think, well, they called us
here because they need us andthey have to need us for our
identity to be secure in whatwe're doing, right?
Ian Nix (07:41):
Yeah, and and by the way, the fear is well founded.
Sometimes the prospect is gonnasay that.
Um the thing is, what you'relikely to find way more often is
the prospect is going to saysomething along the lines of
listen, I was supposed to be Iwas supposed to have done this
(08:04):
like three months ago, and mywife's family is coming to
visit, and she is not happy, andI need it done now, which is
what this guy started to see.
When he would say somethingthat was uh counterintuitive to
say, which is uh gosh, like youcould probably handle this.
(08:24):
People started arguing with himand going, No, I can't.
This is why I need you.
Brandon Welch (08:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So for some of our window guys,that could be, well, these
windows don't look that bad.
What what's got you wanting toreplace them, right?
Exactly.
That that's totallycounterintuitive because you're
what you're really doing thoughis you're giving them maybe
safety and and exposing theirreal pain.
Would you would you agree withthat?
Yeah, exactly.
Ian Nix (08:49):
So you're digging a little deeper than just saying,
oh yeah, obviously this uh thisdeck has a lot of problems.
Boy, I'm gonna go build thisquote and I'm gonna send the
quote and they're gonna love it.
You're digging a little deeperand going, well, why why me?
Why now?
Brandon Welch (09:05):
Yeah.
In that process, he found outthe real pain was speed and
hassle.
That's it.
And not having the projectdrawn out for you know, six
months with junk everywhere thatthe in-laws were gonna see,
right?
Ian Nix (09:20):
That's it.
And and a little bonus there,right?
Um the guy goes, you know, mymy wife's family's coming in and
this guy I'm working with, hegoes, Well, you're not trying to
get me to handle this beforethey arrive, are you?
Because I mean, I'm booking outsix weeks, and now you can see
just margins going up.
(09:42):
As as he's saying somethinglike that, margins going up for
him.
This guy's like, I gotta, Igotta have you.
Can what what is it gonna take?
Brandon Welch (09:50):
Yeah.
Permission to charge a premium.
Yeah, yeah.
Ian Nix (09:53):
So moral of the story, just asking a few more questions
to understand what yourprospects' real problems are,
it's gonna save you time andit's gonna make you a lot more
money.
Brandon Welch (10:02):
Yeah, the yeah, the problem, the presenting
problem is never the problem sooften.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (10:08):
Uh that's any line of consulting.
But if you're trying to trainyour sales team to be
consultants, it's not well, whatfeatures do you want in your
XYZ?
It's that's a great question.
Why are you doing this alltogether?
Right.
Love that.
So um what happened as a resultof that?
Ian Nix (10:26):
I mean, yeah, he started making a lot more money.
Winning more quotes, um, goingthe opposite way of what
prospects expected him to go.
Um winning more quotes at ahigher margin.
Brandon Welch (10:40):
So I want to I want to talk about that higher
margin because it doesn't umit's not just on the top line
sales that you get.
It's um that like that'sprobably anybody can wish and
and and you know imagine whathappens when you uh get a higher
sales close rate cut.
So anybody can feel a higherprofit margin when you get a
(11:01):
higher sales close rate, right?
That just feels better.
Uh and what you're just sayingis you know, they're uncovering
pain that they can sort of buildmargin with, that's great too.
Um but I think some one of theun most underrealized um gains
when sales improves, like theefficiency of it, is time and
energy that gets to be spent onthe other things.
(11:23):
That's it.
And so when you've got a guywho's psychologically being
drained because of 30% of hispeople are saying yes and 70%
are saying no, that guy becomesrelatively like useless for
other tasks and follow throughand administrative stuff.
And I see a lot of a lot of ourguys who have you'll have a
really talented salesperson, butthey you know they suck at some
(11:43):
of that other that other stuff.
Ian Nix (11:44):
So the higher win rate uh it uh produces so much uh
benefit beyond just the thesalesperson making more money,
the business making more money.
Brandon Welch (11:56):
So that's quoting before understanding.
That's it.
That's your first answer.
Ian Nix (12:01):
Yeah.
So number two, uh pushing thequote.
So um, and another little storyview for you.
Um when my wife and I movedinto the house uh that we're in
a few years ago, uh, we came inknowing the roof needed to be
replaced.
Um and we waited on a hailstorm and God sent the hail, and
thank God.
Um so guy comes out, he gets upon the roof, comes back down to
(12:25):
show me and my wife pictures,and then he launches into his
whole sales-y thing.
Okay.
Um, here's all the happycustomers we have.
Why do you think they chose us?
He's got pictures of them, he'sgot a folder.
Folders aren't bad, picturesaren't bad.
Okay.
Um, but he's trying to, youknow, what he's trying to do in
that moment is push us into asale with all of his wonderful
(12:48):
social proof.
Okay.
Um, then he goes, you know, I'dlike for you to go ahead and
sign this right here.
Uh states that uh if you decideto go with us, we'll be able to
work with your insurance.
That's called a trial close,right?
If I sign that right there, I'mmore likely, and you've seen
this in car dealerships too,right?
Yeah, if I get that number thatyou just said and take it to my
(13:10):
manager and he approves it, areyou gonna sign right here that
you're gonna sign?
Yeah.
Trial close.
Okay.
Um, but uh, but here's thekicker.
He goes, at the end of allthat, he goes, I'm gonna give
you some homework.
I want you to call one of thesepeople and you ask them why
they decided to go with us.
It's just like, dude.
Meanwhile, you know, the guyreeked of cigarettes.
(13:32):
Um, he hadn't asked permissionto get in our personal space
like that.
And we're sitting there going,like, this is you know, what do
you think?
The first thing I did, that guyleaves the house.
What do you think the firstthing my wife and I did was?
Thank God he's gone.
High-fived.
And call the next roofer.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, that's it.
(13:53):
Um, so you know, the moral ofthe story there is you gotta
stop pushing people into thesale.
Um, it'll work sometimes.
You'll you'll find people whoare willing to be pushed.
They're probably not gonna berepeat customers.
Brandon Welch (14:08):
Yeah, or or probably what happens is they're
just they just don't have theenergy to go through that with
somebody else.
And it's like that's kind ofespecially in home improvement
sales, we see that so much.
It's the experience that nobodywants uh and they wouldn't
wish, you know, on somebody theydon't even like.
But um why is that stilltraditional wisdom inside the
(14:29):
home improvement sales industry?
Really a lot of them.
Ian Nix (14:31):
Yeah, honestly, I think people are trained by how
they've been sold to.
I I think it's uh badsalespeople out there beget bad
salespeople.
They think they have to bepushy.
Um, and you see it in in a lotof other aspects in sales,
people don't feel like they canbe themselves.
They feel so bad about being insales.
(14:52):
They, you know, their theirimpression, if you if you do
word association with them andsay, I'm gonna say salesperson.
Now you give me the first fewwords that come to your brain.
They're like pushy, sleazy,used car, right?
And so they have all of thisstuff about how bad it is to be
a salesperson.
So they think they have to besomeone else, or they think they
(15:14):
have to be pushy.
They've learned by how they'vebeen sold to, and and now
they're just kind ofperpetuating the problem.
Brandon Welch (15:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Same thing happens inadvertising.
When people go to write an ad,they they think it has to be
written like every ad they'veever heard, which is usually bad
form, right?
Yeah.
The same thing.
Wow.
So I read something the otherday, um, I think it was
Salesforce, that said 59% ofconsumers don't feel like their
salesperson is tailoring thesale to them.
(15:44):
They're like on a pre-writtenagenda.
And I see a lot of uh, frankly,some of our bigger and better
clients really like trying tostandardize that sales script.
And like it's like that's thething they push.
It's like be on the script oryou're gonna get fired.
Like I have I've I've got aclient that like actually
listened and recorded calls andhad people employed full time
(16:05):
just to say you went off script,you're screwing it up.
Um, where does that line go?
Because business owners thatwant to scale want control, um,
but we know that that's notproducing the best result.
So to somebody who's wanting tostandardize and do sales
training like on a weekly basis,um how do they how do they
(16:26):
train this this sort of theprinciples you're talking about
while still having some level ofstandardization?
Ian Nix (16:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I would say um process isnot the enemy.
Um self-focus is probably theenemy, right?
So if your process is yoursales process in particular, is
all about focusing on thecustomer, then you're fine.
Use the process.
Um if your process is makingpeople uh worry about the next
(16:56):
thing that they need to say in agiven moment, then the focus is
on them.
It's on the company rather thanon the customer.
And that's the surest wayyou've got to lose that
customer.
Brandon Welch (17:08):
That's a really important distinction.
Like train people how to focuson other people, not to train on
the actual bullet points andthe words said.
Okay, so so far we've gotquoting before, understanding,
and then pushing the quote.
What else you got?
Ian Nix (17:22):
Yeah, so the the final one is quoting and hoping.
So I'll go back to that deckguy.
Um, this is kind of what hisprocess was.
He was assessing the work to bedone, uh, figuring out what
labor and materials would be,uh, working up the quote,
delivering the quote to thecustomer, and hoping the
customer chose him.
(17:43):
So we call that quoting andhoping, or in some circles,
smoking hopium.
Brandon Welch (17:49):
Um smoking hopium.
Yeah.
Ian Nix (17:51):
And so and the thing is, everybody does this,
especially in the trades.
Um, everybody's driving aroundin a truck that says free
estimate on it, or it says it ontheir social media, and that's
fine.
Brandon Welch (18:03):
You know, I don't know that it is actually.
Oh, okay.
Free estimates are fine, butbut the amount of people that
assume that that's like a goodcall to action, call for a free
estimate.
Ian Nix (18:13):
Yeah.
So again, I'm not here to tellthe people who are doing that
that they have to stop thatright now.
You might be, which is fine.
Um uh, but instead of you know,just sending the estimate, I
just want uh your listeners toconsider one little tweak.
(18:34):
Um what if you ask them whattheir next steps would be once
you send the quote over?
So instead of I'm gonna goahead and send this quote to you
as soon as I get it worked up,what if you tag something on the
end of that where you go once Isend this quote over, what's
your next step gonna be?
(18:55):
You know, so many salespeopleout there are just sending the
quote and then wondering whenthe customer is gonna get back
in touch with them or if theyare going to.
Brandon Welch (19:14):
Because they're giving you permission in that
answer, right?
That's right.
That's right.
Okay, so I understand thatthat's great for like people who
are gotta go do the work andproduce the quote.
What about my guys and galsthat are like right in the home
right there and they're like,cool, this is what it's gonna
cost?
Um there's there's not like afollow-up moment baked in in the
(19:35):
process.
What should they do?
Then a lot of them are saying,like, well, I gotta talk to my
spouse, or okay, I'll call youback.
And they're setting up for thatquoting and hoping or smoking
hopium or hoping smoking orwhatever you said.
Um, what do those guys do thatare they're a little more the
end is sort of like evident thatthey've done their process.
Ian Nix (19:54):
Yeah, it's no different.
You're still gonna ask, um, youknow, what what's gonna be
next?
What do you think she's likelyto say?
Um, how do you guys typicallymake this kind of a decision?
Brandon Welch (20:04):
Oh, that's that's really good.
Yeah, how do you guys typicallymake that kind of decision?
That's really good.
They're gonna give you thewiring, they're gonna give you
the script, they're gonna giveyou what you need to follow up.
That's it.
Um that is one of the mostthat's one of the most brilliant
things I've heard.
Um that one thing, and I'm I'myou know who who you are that
I'm talking to you.
(20:24):
I've got a guy that uh that hasthis really big issue right now
that's like of you know, theguy's just not getting follow-up
calls.
Um that one thing, like, how doyou typically make this type of
decision?
That's such an empathetic,really it's a compassionate way
to sell too.
Ian Nix (20:41):
And it's focused on them, right?
Instead of being focused on me,and I've got to make this
quote, and boy, I hope I hopethey like me enough to do
business with me.
Brandon Welch (20:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, we've known for a long timethat people don't buy for the
actual product.
They very rarely buy for theprice.
There's some there's some newerdata that said like well over
50% of people just buy simplybecause of the experience.
And if they felt good, they'regonna let go of the money.
And the logical, the logicalreasons, uh Zig Ziglar said
(21:11):
people don't buy for logicalreasons, they buy for emotional
reasons.
And the emotional reason canliterally be the sales process
you just produced.
That's and so we we try to makethis, and this is to your
point, like about us and aboutthis tactical thing I have to
do.
And it's really just like readthe emotions of your person.
When you got Jenny to fly overhere from Spain, there was no
(21:32):
there was nothing logical aboutthat, was there?
Not at all.
Did you use the did you usethis on her?
Yeah, I wish I knew thatprocess.
How do you typically how do youtypically make this type of
decision?
Right.
Um, it must have it must havebeen your piano playing.
So yeah.
Um, so we've talked about thedifference between um
testimonials and social proof.
Talked about quoting thembefore you understand them.
(21:53):
We've talked about pushing thatpushy quote, and now we've
talked about quoting and hoping.
A lot of this res re revolvesaround the moment you force the
product in front of them andjust taking a little pause and
building some glue between that.
Would you would you say that'sa good bucket to put all of this
in?
Ian Nix (22:11):
And putting the focus on them.
Let the let your focus be thecustomer and what the customer
needs and how you can help them.
Brandon Welch (22:19):
Everybody's heard that a million times.
Um, what is the thing you'regonna say that's gonna make the
difference um to the boss that'spushing the salesperson team?
Because they're wanting thethings I hear is they want them
to be more accountable.
They want them to be moreactive.
And maybe those things arefine.
Maybe, maybe there's some lazysalespeople out there that got
(22:39):
to be, you know, kicked once ina while to get up off the off
the uh off the chair.
But um, what would you tell thebusiness owner who is maybe
part of this problem?
Ian Nix (22:51):
I'd say you've got a lifetime of doing it your way.
Why not try thecounterintuitive thing?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Hmm.
Brandon Welch (22:58):
Yeah, you've got the you've got the proof.
I promise Ian's clients uh togive you some social proof would
say that it's working for them.
If you've ever not wanted to bethe salesy guy or the pushy
team, and more importantly, ifyou just wanted to get more um
out of your leads, I thinkyou're gonna have to stand out
and just violating thatstereotypical uh role comes in,
(23:19):
comes just in that moment, thatthat tiny pause before they're
doing the thing you want them todo.
It's putting the focus on thatother person.
So I think that's brilliant.
I think if you're able to pullthat out and actually embed it
into your sales teams, you willbe uh calling and begging for
Ian's number, but um, you're notgonna have to beg for it
because we're gonna we're gonnagive you a way um to work with
(23:42):
Ian.
Um if you want uh just kind ofa free assessment of your sales
process and how things aregoing, he has graciously offered
to do that uh for three peoplewho reach out just to have a
conversation.
Um is that true?
Yes.
Did I you got that?
Okay.
So um, you know, Ian Ian gets aI happen to know he gets a
(24:05):
premium in the marketplacebecause it's instantly valuable.
And imagine what a what even a5% increase in your sales
process would do.
And he he delivers on that.
Um but first three people thatreach out to Ian at Iannix.com,
is that right?
That's right.
Uh he's gonna give you a freeaudit of your sales process.
Um, and you're gonna walk awaywith like some instant things
(24:28):
you can do to put the focus onthe customer.
Um pair that with these threethings, and you're gonna have a
very, very profitable 2026 andbeyond.
Ian, thank you so much forsharing our mission.
Thank you so much for sharingthe heart to help local and
entrepreneurial businesses justget more with less.
I know that is what drives you,it's what drives us.
It's what drives this podcast.
(24:49):
That's why we show up everyweek uh and just give you our
very best uh that we have tooffer.
And so we will be back hereevery week, like we have for the
last three years, um, answeringyour real life marketing
questions because marketers andsalespeople who can't teach you
why are just a fancy lie.
Thank you so much.
Have a great week.
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The Brothers Ortiz
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