September 8, 2025 • 34 mins
Is it fall? Is it summer? Doesn’t matter, planning season is here, and the shiny objects are coming (AI, OTT, YouTube).
Brandon & Caleb zoom out and lock you into the three pillars that never change—so your plan works no matter which media fad shows up.
The framework:
- Strategy → Message → Media (in that order, always)
- Build each for three customer types: Today, Tomorrow, Yesterday
In this episode you’ll get:
- Today customers: How to win the finish line with Price, Speed, Hassle
- Message that converts now: Speak to needs, pains, hopes, fears + give a clear next step.
- Media that matches intent: Where buyers are right now
- Tomorrow customers: The 60–70% budget play—commitment, quality, relationships.
- Media that compounds: Buy daily repetition with the same audience
- Yesterday customers: Keep the tribe warm with added value, support, and swag. Referrals don’t happen by accident.
Do this today: Fill a 3×3 grid: rows = Today/Tomorrow/Yesterday; columns = Strategy/Message/Media. If a box is blank, that’s your leak.
Maven Marketing Mastermind → https://www.mavenmethodtraining.com
Our Website: https://frankandmaven.com/
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/frankandmaven
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/frank-and-maven/
Host: Brandon Welch
Co-Host: Caleb Agee
Executive Producer: Carter Breaux
Audio/Video Producer: Nate the Camera Guy
Do you have a marketing problem you'd like us to help solve? Send it to MavenMonday@FrankandMaven.com!
Get a copy of our Best-Selling Book, The Maven Marketer Here: https://a.co/d/1clpm8a
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandon Welch (00:06):
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, brandon Welch,and I'm joined by Caleb.
Is it really fall Agee?
Caleb Agee (00:14):
I think it is You're wrong.
Brandon Welch (00:15):
You were so wrong .
Caleb Agee (00:17):
We are bringing in fall Nope when the day starts in
the 60s in Missouri it'swishful thinking when the leaves
start.
Guess what verb I use for whatthe leaves are doing right now
Falling off the trees.
Brandon Welch (00:29):
No, I haven't seen a leaf yet.
Caleb Agee (00:31):
You must not be paying attention.
It's happening.
This is an argument we'rehaving Comment below fall or
summer.
What are we in right now?
Technically, yes, it's summer,but if you're in the Midwest, I
think you can agree that thereare some yellow leaves.
They are hitting the ground,falling to the ground.
Brandon Welch (00:48):
If you will help me keep, summer alive, I will
send you a gift, okay, any bookon the shelf, all right.
Speaking of fall, today we aretalking about what's about to
happen to you, if it hasn'talready, and that is that people
are going to start showing upsuggesting that you better start
planning for next year and you,people are going to start
showing up suggesting that youbetter start planning for next
year, and you should, and you'regoing to have this just gut
(01:09):
check moment of wow.
Well, I guess I better questioneverything in my marketing or
the growth of my business.
Yeah, and that is a naturalthing to do.
I'm not even saying youshouldn't, but what tends to
happen in those moments is thatwe get distracted by the media
itself, usually the shiny object.
(01:30):
It could be AI, it could be OTT, it could be you're hearing
about YouTube advertising, itcould be what's meta doing, and
then you kind of startconsulting these emotional
feelings you have about oh, Idon't think that's working for
me this or that, and maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
Caleb Agee (01:48):
But that's, true.
Brandon Welch (01:50):
Today's episode is about the three pillars of a
bulletproof marketing plan thatnever change, and so, no matter
what you're doing on the mediaside, we want to take this a
little higher level, and if youare a Maven marketing podcast
listener, this won't becompletely new to you.
However, good principles arealways old principles.
(02:11):
That's right Right.
Caleb Agee (02:12):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (02:13):
Nothing new under the sun.
Caleb Agee (02:13):
Yeah, what are you seeing?
Yeah, the foundation of this isthat we always want to start
with strategy first, and I thinkthat that seems so obvious.
We think of Simon Sinek.
Start with why it seems reallyobvious to say that out loud.
It seems like a duh type ofstatement, and the problem is is
when we get into the weeds ofdoing marketing.
(02:35):
It's so easy to jump over.
It is, you will catch yourself.
If you don't stop yourself, youwill find yourself jumping
right over strategy and landingon the media.
And so in the Maven Method, wesay strategy first, then message
, then media last.
Yes, and we're going to talkabout those three pillars of
(02:57):
your marketing plan and then howthey correlate with the three
types of customers that you have.
Brandon Welch (03:01):
Yes, and within those three strategy, message
and media pillars, there arethree different types of
customers, and so what you wantto make sure you do is have a
strategy for today customers, amessage for today customers and
a media plan for today customers, and the same is true for
tomorrow and yesterday customers.
So it's just like if you couldfill this grid out.
We're going to go through it.
(03:22):
So what does a strategy fortoday customers look like If you
would go to page 235 in theMaven Marketer?
we have this handy-dandy gridthat we just kind of guide any
and all marketing decisions, andso you are establishing up
front that I need to have somesort of answer for people out on
(03:45):
the loose today.
We say that a strategy that youare able to reasonably expect a
today customer to say yep, Isuddenly needed what you do.
My washing machine broke, mytire went flat, my air
conditioner won't work, somebodyis in the nursing home and I
need an attorney.
You have to have some sort ofanswer for how you're going to
save them money, save them timeor make it easier for them.
(04:08):
We call it price, speed andhassle.
Caleb Agee (04:11):
Yeah, and this customer is the one everybody
thinks of first when they thinkof marketing, especially if
you're in a service-based,actually, even in retail, you're
thinking of the person whowants what you're selling today.
The person who wants whatyou're selling today, and the
problem with that person I'llsay problem is that if they
didn't have any preconceivedthought of you, as a business,
(04:33):
you have to Win them over.
You have to win them with Somesort of tangible Price, speed
and hassle.
And so if we don't earn themwe're going to talk about this
in a minute if we don't earnthem before this moment, you
have to compromise, you have to,or you have to show how you're
different than let's say everyoption on the search engine
(04:55):
results page or on the AIresults page or on whatever.
However, maybe they get out thephone book, I don't really know,
but you have to show updifferently and you have to show
them that you are better inthose categories.
Brandon Welch (05:06):
This can look like free consultations.
That's sort of a basic one.
This can look like a limitedtime offer.
This can look like packagepricing, like you get this XYZ
plan for this amount.
This can look like just beingtransparent about your price and
saying, hey, I'm going to giveyou a price before we have to
have an appointment together.
(05:27):
I'm going to give you aballpark estimate.
Caleb Agee (05:29):
It could be a speed-based thing.
You could guarantee 30 minutesor less, or we'll answer the
phone in 15 seconds, or havethis result by seven days or
less.
We have 24-hour emergencyresponse.
That is speed.
If I call you in the middle ofthe night because I have a
problem with whatever myelectricity or something, and
you're going to be the one thatcomes out, you win.
Brandon Welch (05:50):
Yes, and going back to what's the hassle
strategy like, if you're goingto answer for hassle, you're
going to take away either somecumbersome thing they have to do
, some contract they have tosign.
You could give them a moneyback guarantee.
You could give them like a longreturn policy or a generous
return policy.
You could give them freeshipping.
That would be price sort of andhassle because I'm not having to
(06:13):
pay extra for that.
But think about all thefriction points, all of the
little ooh that's not asdesirable, like anything that
keeps them from thegratification.
Remove those steps.
And so the big thing toremember here is that you cannot
(06:34):
expect to just win today,customers, if your competitor is
cheaper, faster or just easierto do business with.
If all it comes down to is Ineeded the thing and I didn't
know you before and I didn'tknow your competitor before, I'm
going to choose based on one ofthose major things.
That's why, today, customers,while they're fast and we tend
to think, ooh, that's great, Igot a return on my marketing
investment, they tend to cost usmore than we realize.
And actually, when we get tothe media part of this equation,
(06:55):
we're going to see that theycost more to earn at that finish
line usually.
But for starters, you're goinghey, what's my strategy for
today customers, what are ourlimited time offers?
What are the seasonal thingswe're going to do?
What are the ways we're goingto promise people we save them
time, money or hassle and youwant to have that.
I would actually literallywrite it down Like what is our
(07:17):
approach to this?
There's some things you're justgoing to not go below, maybe
because you're a high standardcompany.
That's okay.
But just realize that you'regoing to get disrupted by people
who are possibly lower, lowerstandard yeah so, um, the next
part of a of a sorry next pillaris message.
What is our message for today?
(07:37):
Customers sound like a lot likewhat we just talked about.
Yeah, um, globally, we'realways asking in the message who
are we talking to?
And we're picturing this person.
We're always asking in themessage who are we talking to?
And we're picturing this person.
We're visualizing them.
We know what they're doing atthis time, we know what kind of
handbag they're carrying, weknow what kind of car they
probably drive.
We're literally imagining aperson, giving him or her a name
, and we're saying what aretheir needs, pains, hopes and
(07:59):
fears when they have this moment, when they're deciding to be my
today customer?
What are they going through?
And we wire our brains to thinkyou know, how do I speak to
them?
How do I be compassionate andempathetic to them right now?
So that is needs, pains, hopesand fears.
(08:20):
And then this sounds like a noduh, but a lot of ads miss this.
We have to clarify and say outloud the thing we assume they
know, but they don't know.
It's how do we specificallysolve their problem?
That's right.
In this 30 minute consultation,you are going to get this, this
and this, not just get a 30minute consultation?
Caleb Agee (08:36):
Yeah, in this free roofing inspection you will get
our you know a price and ourrecommendation as to whether you
should file this with insuranceor not.
Brandon Welch (08:45):
Yeah, exactly.
Sometimes it's this package ofgoods you will get exactly X, y
and Z.
And so just clarifying thatthing, and then also like remind
them that go back to the whichmeans trick which we talked
about four or five episodes ago,which means your bills will be
lower, yes, which means you willsleep better at night, which
(09:05):
means you'll never have to worryabout X, y or Z again.
Right, that's right.
And so it's like how do wesatisfy that void without the
pain or fear that they have?
Yeah, and then also seems likea no duh, but so many people
forget to give the reasonablenext step for action.
They just say go to our website.
What the heck am I supposed todo?
Caleb Agee (09:24):
there.
Call now.
Brandon Welch (09:25):
Yeah, call now.
And it's like, well, it's 1030.
Why would I call now?
Cause the ad's playing at 1030.
It's like give them areasonable next step.
But um, like pull over and goto the website now, probably not
(09:49):
.
But um call this number ordownload this pricing guide or
come by our location, somethinglike that.
But you have to give them somesort of next thing to do to
solve this.
Need, pain, hope or fear?
Last thing where can we targetthe most amount of people buying
right now?
That's the media equation.
(10:09):
Yeah, so you go.
Okay, I've got a good price,speed, hassle solution.
I'm messaging it correctly andI'm giving them reasonable next
steps.
Where do I put that message?
Where are the most peoplebuying right now in the category
?
Caleb Agee (10:21):
Yeah, and I think the most obvious places end up
being like Google ads, somedigital medias like Google ads
meta, which is Facebook andInstagram.
You know there are differentpeople.
You can be a little bit moreintrusive, but this could be in
a lot of other venues.
It could literally be thepeople buying right now might be
at next to the register.
(10:42):
It might.
It could be, you know, pop-upum banners that show up.
It could be um at yourdrive-through.
You know there are so manyoptions as far as the media goes
, um, there's some obvious onesthat you know that you would go
to first.
But when you get this strategyright and you speak to their
need pain, hope or fear andconnect that to how your product
(11:04):
satisfies the media, really, ittakes care of itself.
It's more of a logic play whenyou're genuinely asking.
Well, I know exactly who thisperson is.
I've thought a lot about them.
I know all the feelings theyhave.
I know what they're goingthrough.
I've thought a lot about them,I know all the feelings they
have.
I know what they're goingthrough right now before they
call me about what I'm selling.
So therefore, I know exactlywhere they are and I'm going to
(11:25):
put my ads there.
Brandon Welch (11:26):
Yes, great.
Caleb Agee (11:28):
Those are usually high targeted and therefore cost
more.
Brandon Welch (11:32):
That's what I was going to add.
So people are probably askingwhy wouldn't I use a Today Media
all the time?
Because it's people buying.
Right now, that media tends tobe 20 to 100 times more
expensive per person you reach.
Google CPMs like cost to reach1,000 people are between $500
and $1,500.
We're going to talk about it ina second Broadcast.
(11:53):
Broad untargeted medias aremore like 5 to 15.
So it could be hundreds oftimes more to reach them and
you're like well, why would Icare about reaching the people
who aren't buying now?
Because these are going to bethe ones that become the
customers you actually want.
So we just talked aboutstrategy, message and media for
today customers.
(12:14):
Let's move to tomorrowcustomers Winning the customer
over before they ever need whatyou sell.
The magic of this is the samemagic that happens when you have
a trusted friend a familymember, someone you believe in
their word, precedes any amountof skepticism or transaction
that you need to do with them toprove their value.
(12:35):
I already believe in Caleb.
If Caleb brought me an idea,I'm listening.
I'm probably 90% there.
I may fight him just becauseit's fun.
But he loves it when I do that.
I love it.
But you want to become that,Caleb.
You want to become that trustedfriend in their life so that
(12:55):
when the tens of thousands ofpeople in your market who will
tomorrow, or two months from now, or six months from now need
what you do, they go ah, Caleb,or ah insert your brand name.
That is why we do tomorrowmarketing and that's why the
tomorrow customer we recommendas does the largest study ever
(13:16):
done on marketing, called theLong and Short of it, by Les
Bennett and Peter Fieldssuggests that 60 to 70% of your
budget should be in tomorrowmarketing.
Emotional branding Makingpeople like you trust you
believe in you, long before theyknew what you do.
Caleb Agee (13:33):
This is on the strategy side of things.
This is where you end up seeingbeing able to stay at a high
value.
When we were talking about.
You know, having to compromiseon price, speed or hassle with a
today customer.
These, these people don't wantyou to compromise.
They want you to be everythingyou've always been for them
because you've you've built arelationship with them and
(13:55):
they're calling and they'rewilling to pay full price
because they know who you areand they trust you and they want
you already.
And the strategy, as we say inthe Maven Method specifically,
is that we would have commitment, quality and relationships.
We would build commitment.
(14:15):
Show them that we're here forthe long haul.
We'll be here.
And that is actually what youare doing to yourself.
When you commit to tomorrowmarketing, you're not saying I'm
going out of business tomorrow,so I'm going to advertise like
I'm going out of businesstomorrow.
No, you're going to be inbusiness for the next two years.
Brandon Welch (14:30):
So make a plan that looks like you're going to
be in business for two years,here today, here tomorrow, here
for you, right, by the way, whenpeople walk in our door or call
us, having read our book,having listened to our podcast,
having been on our website andgotten the scads of free advice
we've given for years and yearsand years, do you think they're
(14:52):
going?
How cheap can I get you?
Like that's just aFranken-Maven story?
No, they're like tell us theplan versus somebody who called
us and three other marketingagencies that they want to
somehow magically fix theirGoogle ads.
They're going.
What's your rate?
And what else can I get out ofyou?
Caleb Agee (15:12):
How much is it going to cost?
How?
Brandon Welch (15:14):
much is it going to cost?
And do you guarantee I'll getprofitable ROI?
And it's like that's thedifference in the customer you
want.
Now there's time and a place toget a today customer, certainly
if you are operationally orstrategically better.
But you would much rather havethe customer that already
believes in you.
And so the strategy is based oncommitment.
(15:34):
You want to be standing forsome sort of long-term thing for
them, long-term outcome.
We do it this way because,dadgummit, that's the way my
grandpa taught me to do it andI'm not going to compromise to
any of these other crappytransactional ways of doing it.
Yep, I believe in you, I'm herefor you, even if you're not
(15:55):
giving me money right now.
That's commitment.
That's friendship.
That's relationships.
Right, you've seen it done theother way over here.
That makes me mad.
I believe you deserve better.
You're talking about thequality you provide.
And then relationships.
We're going to do this withmedia.
We're going to show up andinvest in them again, just like
(16:17):
any quality relationship.
This kind of speaks to ourmedia schedule.
We're going to be there all thetime.
Caleb Agee (16:23):
Yeah, quality time is one of the biggest factors in
a quality relationship.
Obviously there's there'ssocial nuance there, but you
cannot have a strongrelationship that you don't
spend time with that individual.
Brandon Welch (16:36):
This is also companies that do this well, are
investing in community things.
They are given back to the kids.
They are usually the companiesthat you find have really,
really happy team members andemployees.
These are the companies thatstand for something, they are
pushing causes and they're doingbig things in their industry.
So with tomorrow marketing,it's less about the need, pain,
(16:59):
hope or fear.
Moving on to the message theneed, pain, hope or fear that
their tire's flat and they needit.
Today it's more like every timeyou come to my store you get
not only your tire fixed but youget a 89-point inspection on
your vehicle, because I believein your family being safe and if
I have one percent chance ofmaking you more safe, I'm going
(17:23):
to do that because I'm Ed ofEd's Tire and that's what I
believe right.
Caleb Agee (17:25):
Yep, and it's a layer away from the actual
product.
So with today marketing, themessage ends up being pretty
blunt.
It's right there next to-.
Brandon Welch (17:38):
Do you need tires ?
We have tires.
Come buy some tires, power'sout For 20% off.
Caleb Agee (17:42):
Fix my power Like plumbing's not working.
Fix my toilet.
Fix my power like plumbing'snot working.
Fix my toilet like that's.
It's pretty.
It's pretty clear when we getto tomorrow marketing we're
stepping back and we're talkinglong term about why they would
need a good plumber that theycan trust and they're.
We're going to talk about theirhopes of not getting, you know,
screwed over by by a shyster,by somebody who's going to take
(18:03):
advantage of them because theydon't know how much plumbing
should cost.
And we're going to be in theircorner, be on their team, and
you position yourself that wayfor years.
Brandon Welch (18:12):
I think of one of our best tomorrow campaigns I
think we've ever done and it wasvideos of grandparents doing
sentimental things with theirgrandkids.
So they were baking apple pies,they were on the tractor, they
were doing those things and thatwas like 25 seconds of the
30-second commercial and at theend it just said basically here,
when you need us right, youdeserve, they deserve the best,
(18:34):
and it was for an estateplanning company.
Caleb Agee (18:35):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (18:36):
And so.
Caleb Agee (18:37):
They were not selling apple pies.
Brandon Welch (18:39):
Yeah, they were not saying call right now for a
free consultation.
Now is it okay to put a littletoday.
Next step, of course You'regoing to sweep with a really
good tomorrow campaign, evenwithout the price, speed and
hassle stuff in there.
You're going to sweep peoplethat have been watching you for
a while and they go.
(18:59):
Oh, it's finally time for me tocall.
Caleb Agee (19:01):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (19:01):
I think we'll get that free consultation right.
Yeah, but we're not hitting theneeds, pains, hopes and fears
on the nose.
We're just saying, man,shouldn't life be this way?
Let me show you something thatmakes you laugh, cry or get a
little mad about something, andhere's how we solve that.
And, when you're ready, here'swhat you can do about it.
That's the softer approach totomorrow marketing.
(19:22):
But we have to have thatemotional hook in there.
We have to make them laugh, cryor get angry.
Caleb Agee (19:27):
Because we're going to be memorable.
They don't need us, they have noreason to give us any.
The time of day Right, we'veinterrupted their day.
They don't need what we'reselling today because my tire is
not flat.
I don't need that.
So you have to bond with me,you have to get my attention
with entertainment.
Give me something exciting, fun, emotional.
(19:48):
Give me some reason to listento you, to hear what you say,
and everybody wants to beentertained.
Everybody wants to have, wantsto enjoy.
You know you and Carter talkedabout this a few weeks ago.
We want to enjoy even theadvertising that we have to
listen to.
Right, we feel like we have to,but think about like Superbowl,
(20:09):
everybody skips.
They don't skip the commercialsat the Superbowl either,
because they're great.
What if your ads were like that?
This is that's tomorrowmarketing in its best.
Brandon Welch (20:18):
Yep, so that's what we're doing.
And then when it comes to themedia, because repetition breeds
recall, repetition breedsrecall, repetition breeds recall
, repetition breeds recall.
We want to be with the samegroup of people over and over
and over again.
You don't want to just randomlythrow your emotional tomorrow
(20:40):
marketing messages everywhere orthey won't build.
The science says at about sevento eight exposure points.
Then we can change our messageor maybe start with a different
audience, but until then youneed to be in front of the same
people, the same message.
Caleb Agee (21:00):
Yeah, when we talk about annual planning as you
move into the season, this isthe place I caution you the most
.
really, you shouldn't throw outany babies with the bath water
when you're talking about annualplanning because, um, most
things do something and I wouldcaution you to to just pick up,
(21:20):
you know, keep your marketingbudget in a pot and pick it up
and move it around to another.
You know, move that pot around.
You want a tree that's going togrow really strong roots and
and a lot of times people arejust picking up and moving
around, especially in yourtomorrow medias.
You want to dedicate yourselfto this audience.
They are your audience.
Do not give up on them Now, if,if it's not performing, if
(21:42):
there's something else.
There are extreme circumstanceswhere we would say, okay, maybe
you would move it along, butmost often, I'm going to say
that you probably need to lookat your message.
Yeah, and and um, and maybe thecost of the audience, if it's
not super efficient, but ifyou're truly reaching a large
audience minimal targeting,targeting or none at all yeah,
(22:03):
you should stay with them foryears, yes, and years.
Brandon Welch (22:06):
And when you've, we do yeah, and you're buying.
The principle here is buy themost amount of people you can
afford to buy daily.
So for TV that means buying aprogram where people come back
in every day, such as news orsome game show or some regularly
reoccurring Monday throughFriday program.
Caleb Agee (22:27):
Everybody tunes in for that, or the same people
tune in for that every day.
Brandon Welch (22:35):
Yep, If it's radio, it's buying the same
station at least 40 spots a week, 6a to 7P, before you add
another one.
Okay, no fewer than like 25,but at least 40 before you add
another one.
You want optimal frequency.
Yep, if it's Facebook, it'slike not changing our audiences
all the time.
Sometimes we can reach peoplethrough meta Facebook, instagram
and it's like we commit to thesame audience so they keep
(22:57):
seeing us.
Caleb Agee (22:57):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (22:57):
Kind of the same thing with YouTube, and there's
some nerdy ways.
You have to think abouttargeting those people.
Think about targeting thosepeople, but the algorithms even
know that they're better offshowing a.
If you set the campaign to anobjective of like what they call
reach or awareness, they knowto make people aware it takes
time, and so if it's a billboard, don't buy the program that
(23:20):
puts you on random digitalbillboards.
Buy the same location.
Caleb Agee (23:23):
Yep, so I see you every day on my drive to work.
Brandon Welch (23:25):
Yeah, billboards by the same location.
Yep, so I see you every day onmy drive to work.
Yeah, the only thing we'rechanging every month or two,
usually with a medium-sizedbudget, is the message, right?
Yep.
So quick recap on three pillarsof tomorrow customers Strategy
is be committed to them.
Talk about the quality youprovide.
Build a relationship by showingup, entertaining them even when
(23:45):
they're not buying right now.
And the media is like, by aschedule that allows you to talk
to them daily.
And really the most profitablemarketing plans have 60 to 70%
of their money in that tomorrowmarketing campaign.
Caleb Agee (23:58):
Yes, you may need to work, stair-step yourself up
there.
You may not be able to justswing, you know, 60% of your
budget in that directionimmediately, but start budgeting
for that plan ahead.
Uh, if, if you're working onfourth quarter, start thinking
about next year.
Maybe you can't start till thesummertime If you haven't been
(24:18):
investing in tomorrow marketing,or maybe you need to just start
with a little bit.
Get there and and commityourself to it.
This is a long-term play.
This is you, are.
You're becoming a part of theirlives.
Brandon Welch (24:31):
Yep, so um, and, by the way, that makes all the
other things cheaper.
It really does when peoplealready know who you are dude.
More of them show up at yourdoor going yep, been thinking
about you for years.
Caleb Agee (24:41):
Show me somebody who's complaining about their
Google ads and I will show yousomebody who's probably not
investing in Tomorrow Media.
Brandon Welch (24:46):
Yep, they're not well-known, liked or trusted.
Caleb Agee (24:49):
No.
Brandon Welch (24:50):
Google ads take care of themselves.
When you have that Yep, okay,last customer Yesterday, this is
easy.
You've got a group of peoplewho have already given you their
money, their trust, their timeand you just want to love on
them and you're going yeah, butI sold them a roof and they
don't need that for 30 moreyears.
Keep doing it.
Caleb Agee (25:07):
They know somebody.
Brandon Welch (25:07):
They know somebody and they are already
statistically likely to referyou close to the sale, Like if
they had, if they did businesswith you in the last year or two
.
It's like, eh, somebody askedthem.
They'll probably be like yeah,I used these guys.
Caleb Agee (25:20):
Yeah, I got a guy yeah.
Brandon Welch (25:21):
But two years disappears like that in the
scheme of marketing and itdiminishes and that bond and
that feel good that they hadwith you diminishes, so you can
keep that alive.
You do not have to let that diejust by sending them an email
every month and you're goingyeah, but it's roofing.
(25:42):
How do I talk about roofing?
Well, maybe once in a while youtalk about cleaning out your
gutters and all the obviousthings with roofing.
Caleb Agee (25:48):
Yeah, you're not trying to sell them a roof with
your yesterday marketing Right.
Brandon Welch (25:53):
You are.
What you are doing is eitheragain making them laugh, cry or
get angry.
You can send them a recipe.
You can send them five thingsto do with the family this month
.
You could send them.
There's a certain amount ofcelebrating your own people.
Hey, wish Caleb a happy 10-yearanniversary.
At Frank and Maven, it could be.
Hey, we're supporting thiscause.
(26:16):
Would you help us?
It could be very lighthearted.
The magic is that they see youto some sort of frequency after
the sale.
I think doing customer eventsis another really good way to do
this.
Caleb Agee (26:28):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (26:29):
Throw the barbecue for all your past
customers Going to a barbecuenext weekend.
For that type of a company youcould.
Caleb Agee (26:37):
I'll be there.
Brandon Welch (26:38):
Hey, see you there.
Okay, you could do giveawaysand drawings and fun Christmas
things Also.
Social media is a good, gooduse of this.
Yes, it is.
Caleb Agee (26:50):
Yeah, If you get any amount of followers on your
social media, I'm going toassume they're probably your
past customers or people youhave connection with.
So social media is a strong.
Now we've talked about the thecons of your business page not
performing well in those, but um, the strategy here specifically
, is added value, support andtribal bond.
(27:12):
Yes, and so those three thingsare the things we're trying to
add, and that does not need tobe on the nose.
I'm a roofer, I'm selling you.
Hey, think about us next timeyou need a roof, or your buddy
needs a roof.
Every once in a while it couldbe that.
Brandon Welch (27:25):
Added value.
It could be information, but itcould be something like hey, we
bought 20 tickets to theCardinals this weekend.
First come, first serve.
And it's like, wow, I didn'thave to pay anything for that
and you invited me to the localgame.
Caleb Agee (27:38):
That sounds great, or hey?
Brandon Welch (27:39):
you're a past customer, come to our booth at
this XYZ event and get a freehat.
Caleb Agee (27:43):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (27:43):
It could be.
Caleb Agee (27:44):
it could be anything it could be, that's a little
bit of tribal thing too.
Yeah, gear swag all of that.
If you make it cool enough.
That is how you build a tribe.
There's a lot of um tribalthings that you can do just by,
just by giving people coolthings that they'll be proud to
own, proud to have these theseare tribal bond, right, that's
right.
Brandon Welch (28:05):
We bought these obnoxiously heavy-duty, really
cool mugs and we give them toeverybody we come in contact
with.
Caleb Agee (28:13):
They're like half an inch thick on the walls inside.
You could murder somebody withthis.
Brandon Welch (28:15):
It's heavy, not liable Not to be used as a
weapon.
Yeah, cool stuff, like makethem wear your badge, like it's
a cool thing, like I have thebarber that I go to.
I love their logo.
I think it's the coolest thing.
Caleb Agee (28:30):
what they stand for and all this stuff.
Brandon Welch (28:32):
So you want that and don't overcomplicate it Like
, be funny, be relevant For therecord.
If you do have a product thatbrings people joy, like a luxury
type product I'm talking to myjewelers, I'm talking to my
(28:53):
enthusiast brands or experiencesfor heaven's sake, talk about
the thing, because you send meany email that has anything to
do with aviation.
I'm reading the thing full stop.
Caleb Agee (29:08):
You send me anything that has to do with, so I get
Brandon to open my email.
That's right.
Helicopters inside.
Did you see this helicopter?
Brandon Welch (29:14):
You should, though.
Caleb Agee (29:15):
That's a good idea.
That's a good way to get myattention.
Brandon Welch (29:16):
Yeah, you want some free copywriting?
Just send me an email about ahelicopter right, but you know
your tribe there Again.
If you're a commodity or aservice, maybe not.
If you're an enthusiast luxuryproduct or experience, 100%
bring people back to the joy.
Our boat dealers, even our cardealers people have joy with
those things right.
(29:37):
Yeah, so anything you'd add tothat?
Caleb Agee (29:39):
No, I think, yeah, don't be afraid to have fun with
it.
And then, once again, when wemove to this message section,
you first are getting to knowthis customer and I think,
hopefully, if you're anempathetic person, if you think
creatively a little bit aboutwho this person is, you can
think of something you have thatcould add value to their life,
(30:00):
outside of the service orproduct you sell.
Brandon Welch (30:02):
Maybe even it's that you're a dad.
Caleb Agee (30:04):
Yeah, you give dad advice, yeah what about if
you're a pathetic person thoughEmpathetic, empathetic, I'm just
pathetic, yeah or apathetic,then you'd just be lazy.
Brandon Welch (30:17):
Then you start a marketing podcast.
Caleb Agee (30:19):
Oh my gosh, I don't think so.
Brandon Welch (30:23):
Hey, last thing with the, just to go through the
principle, just to say it outloud Needs, pains, hopes, fears
are still applicable to theyesterday customer.
They have to do with eitherenthusiast or lifestyle type
things.
And you're asking, on the mediaside, where can I or where will
I communicate with my pastcustomers?
(30:43):
Often?
Caleb Agee (30:45):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (30:45):
And my recommendation is pick the one
that is the easiest for you todo.
Yeah, All of them are cheap.
Throwing an event if that'syour thing, do it.
If you can commit to some sortof fun email tip lifestyle thing
a month or a couple times amonth, do that in email.
If you're just really good atsocial media, make sure they're
all following you and make sureyou're kind of boosting that to
(31:08):
where they all see it.
But do that, do the socialmedia shtick.
Caleb Agee (31:11):
But yeah, and this is the audience, especially when
we talk about email or texting.
This is the audience thatcannot be taken away from you
and that's a big thing.
All of these other medias,these other two customers, the
medias you invest in could goaway like just right away.
They could just disappear andthis audience is yours.
Brandon Welch (31:35):
We talked to a guy today who has like 1,500
past customers and these peopleall spend.
If he would just ask them, theywould spend several hundred
dollars a year with him, yeah,and he's just waiting for him to
call back.
He actually bought the business.
But I'm like dude, that's money.
There's probably $200,000 or$300,000 in sales just by making
(32:01):
sure those people are comingback to you.
I also think of a medicaleyewear company we worked with.
They also had tons of pastcustomers and the industry.
Um, average is like that theaverage person gets new glasses
or frames, whatever every 18 to20 months or something we're
like.
What if that could happen every12 to 14 months?
(32:22):
And we did the math on that andit was millions of dollars and
it's like sometimes you justneed to remind them it's time to
get your oil change or it'stime to have your HVAC service.
And if you do that and scrapethat faster than it would have
normally happened, you aremaking money that didn't exist
because you can't get time back,and so just increasing that
(32:44):
frequency of return customer isa big, big function of past
customers.
So, hey, check out the MavenMarketer, and if you want us to
help you build your marketingplan and go through these
pillars, we would love to dothat.
In the Maven MarketingMastermind we're having a ton of
fun.
We do that every otherWednesday and all you need to do
to join that is go tomavenmethodtrainingcom, get
(33:08):
yourself signed up.
You'll get the email.
You can send questions.
You can say here's my business,here's my budget, how would you
allocate it?
That would just be a ton of fun.
Caleb Agee (33:16):
It is.
It already is a ton of fun.
It is a ton of fun.
It would be more fun if youwere in there.
Brandon Welch (33:20):
It would be way more fun.
That's right.
Caleb Agee (33:22):
No offense to anybody else To anybody who's
already in there.
Brandon Welch (33:24):
Yeah, It'd be more fun for them.
Though, too, I can speak forthe tribe.
Speak of that.
See our little tribal bond Seewhat we did there.
So, mavenmethodtrainingcom,we'd love to have you in the
mastermind.
Get yourself a copy of theMaven Marketer, if you'll agree
with me that summer the firstperson to agree that summer is
like still here for theforeseeable future, uh-huh, I
might just send you one.
(33:45):
I might wrap it in like I don'tknow Fall leaves, no, no, I was
thinking I don't know sunscreenor sunglasses.
Caleb Agee (33:53):
I don't know what I was thinking.
I don't know.
Brandon Welch (33:55):
Hey, big thanks to Nate, the Camera Guy, our
show producer.
We don't give enough love toNate.
Yes, but he's the one who cutsout the stupid flubs Like you
just didn't see.
Okay, yeah and uh there's.
Caleb Agee (34:07):
He's probably got a lot of blackmail on us as far as
uh, just us looking dumb.
Tell Nate how he makes us lookreally good.
So everybody, everybody'ssaying Nate rocks Allegedly, huh
, allegedly yeah.
Brandon Welch (34:19):
Yeah, send, send, nate your things at Mavenmonday
, at frankandmavencom, yes, andwe'll be back here every Monday
answering your real-lifemarketing questions, because
marketers who can't teach youwhy are just a fancy lie.
Have a great day.
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, brandon Welch,and I'm joined by Caleb.
Is it really fall Agee?
Caleb Agee (00:14):
I think it is You're wrong.
Brandon Welch (00:15):
You were so wrong .
Caleb Agee (00:17):
We are bringing in fall Nope when the day starts in
the 60s in Missouri it'swishful thinking when the leaves
start.
Guess what verb I use for whatthe leaves are doing right now
Falling off the trees.
Brandon Welch (00:29):
No, I haven't seen a leaf yet.
Caleb Agee (00:31):
You must not be paying attention.
It's happening.
This is an argument we'rehaving Comment below fall or
summer.
What are we in right now?
Technically, yes, it's summer,but if you're in the Midwest, I
think you can agree that thereare some yellow leaves.
They are hitting the ground,falling to the ground.
Brandon Welch (00:48):
If you will help me keep, summer alive, I will
send you a gift, okay, any bookon the shelf, all right.
Speaking of fall, today we aretalking about what's about to
happen to you, if it hasn'talready, and that is that people
are going to start showing upsuggesting that you better start
planning for next year and you,people are going to start
showing up suggesting that youbetter start planning for next
year, and you should, and you'regoing to have this just gut
(01:09):
check moment of wow.
Well, I guess I better questioneverything in my marketing or
the growth of my business.
Yeah, and that is a naturalthing to do.
I'm not even saying youshouldn't, but what tends to
happen in those moments is thatwe get distracted by the media
itself, usually the shiny object.
(01:30):
It could be AI, it could be OTT, it could be you're hearing
about YouTube advertising, itcould be what's meta doing, and
then you kind of startconsulting these emotional
feelings you have about oh, Idon't think that's working for
me this or that, and maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
Caleb Agee (01:48):
But that's, true.
Brandon Welch (01:50):
Today's episode is about the three pillars of a
bulletproof marketing plan thatnever change, and so, no matter
what you're doing on the mediaside, we want to take this a
little higher level, and if youare a Maven marketing podcast
listener, this won't becompletely new to you.
However, good principles arealways old principles.
(02:11):
That's right Right.
Caleb Agee (02:12):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (02:13):
Nothing new under the sun.
Caleb Agee (02:13):
Yeah, what are you seeing?
Yeah, the foundation of this isthat we always want to start
with strategy first, and I thinkthat that seems so obvious.
We think of Simon Sinek.
Start with why it seems reallyobvious to say that out loud.
It seems like a duh type ofstatement, and the problem is is
when we get into the weeds ofdoing marketing.
(02:35):
It's so easy to jump over.
It is, you will catch yourself.
If you don't stop yourself, youwill find yourself jumping
right over strategy and landingon the media.
And so in the Maven Method, wesay strategy first, then message
, then media last.
Yes, and we're going to talkabout those three pillars of
(02:57):
your marketing plan and then howthey correlate with the three
types of customers that you have.
Brandon Welch (03:01):
Yes, and within those three strategy, message
and media pillars, there arethree different types of
customers, and so what you wantto make sure you do is have a
strategy for today customers, amessage for today customers and
a media plan for today customers, and the same is true for
tomorrow and yesterday customers.
So it's just like if you couldfill this grid out.
We're going to go through it.
(03:22):
So what does a strategy fortoday customers look like If you
would go to page 235 in theMaven Marketer?
we have this handy-dandy gridthat we just kind of guide any
and all marketing decisions, andso you are establishing up
front that I need to have somesort of answer for people out on
(03:45):
the loose today.
We say that a strategy that youare able to reasonably expect a
today customer to say yep, Isuddenly needed what you do.
My washing machine broke, mytire went flat, my air
conditioner won't work, somebodyis in the nursing home and I
need an attorney.
You have to have some sort ofanswer for how you're going to
save them money, save them timeor make it easier for them.
(04:08):
We call it price, speed andhassle.
Caleb Agee (04:11):
Yeah, and this customer is the one everybody
thinks of first when they thinkof marketing, especially if
you're in a service-based,actually, even in retail, you're
thinking of the person whowants what you're selling today.
The person who wants whatyou're selling today, and the
problem with that person I'llsay problem is that if they
didn't have any preconceivedthought of you, as a business,
(04:33):
you have to Win them over.
You have to win them with Somesort of tangible Price, speed
and hassle.
And so if we don't earn themwe're going to talk about this
in a minute if we don't earnthem before this moment, you
have to compromise, you have to,or you have to show how you're
different than let's say everyoption on the search engine
(04:55):
results page or on the AIresults page or on whatever.
However, maybe they get out thephone book, I don't really know,
but you have to show updifferently and you have to show
them that you are better inthose categories.
Brandon Welch (05:06):
This can look like free consultations.
That's sort of a basic one.
This can look like a limitedtime offer.
This can look like packagepricing, like you get this XYZ
plan for this amount.
This can look like just beingtransparent about your price and
saying, hey, I'm going to giveyou a price before we have to
have an appointment together.
(05:27):
I'm going to give you aballpark estimate.
Caleb Agee (05:29):
It could be a speed-based thing.
You could guarantee 30 minutesor less, or we'll answer the
phone in 15 seconds, or havethis result by seven days or
less.
We have 24-hour emergencyresponse.
That is speed.
If I call you in the middle ofthe night because I have a
problem with whatever myelectricity or something, and
you're going to be the one thatcomes out, you win.
Brandon Welch (05:50):
Yes, and going back to what's the hassle
strategy like, if you're goingto answer for hassle, you're
going to take away either somecumbersome thing they have to do
, some contract they have tosign.
You could give them a moneyback guarantee.
You could give them like a longreturn policy or a generous
return policy.
You could give them freeshipping.
That would be price sort of andhassle because I'm not having to
(06:13):
pay extra for that.
But think about all thefriction points, all of the
little ooh that's not asdesirable, like anything that
keeps them from thegratification.
Remove those steps.
And so the big thing toremember here is that you cannot
(06:34):
expect to just win today,customers, if your competitor is
cheaper, faster or just easierto do business with.
If all it comes down to is Ineeded the thing and I didn't
know you before and I didn'tknow your competitor before, I'm
going to choose based on one ofthose major things.
That's why, today, customers,while they're fast and we tend
to think, ooh, that's great, Igot a return on my marketing
investment, they tend to cost usmore than we realize.
And actually, when we get tothe media part of this equation,
(06:55):
we're going to see that theycost more to earn at that finish
line usually.
But for starters, you're goinghey, what's my strategy for
today customers, what are ourlimited time offers?
What are the seasonal thingswe're going to do?
What are the ways we're goingto promise people we save them
time, money or hassle and youwant to have that.
I would actually literallywrite it down Like what is our
(07:17):
approach to this?
There's some things you're justgoing to not go below, maybe
because you're a high standardcompany.
That's okay.
But just realize that you'regoing to get disrupted by people
who are possibly lower, lowerstandard yeah so, um, the next
part of a of a sorry next pillaris message.
What is our message for today?
(07:37):
Customers sound like a lot likewhat we just talked about.
Yeah, um, globally, we'realways asking in the message who
are we talking to?
And we're picturing this person.
We're always asking in themessage who are we talking to?
And we're picturing this person.
We're visualizing them.
We know what they're doing atthis time, we know what kind of
handbag they're carrying, weknow what kind of car they
probably drive.
We're literally imagining aperson, giving him or her a name
, and we're saying what aretheir needs, pains, hopes and
(07:59):
fears when they have this moment, when they're deciding to be my
today customer?
What are they going through?
And we wire our brains to thinkyou know, how do I speak to
them?
How do I be compassionate andempathetic to them right now?
So that is needs, pains, hopesand fears.
(08:20):
And then this sounds like a noduh, but a lot of ads miss this.
We have to clarify and say outloud the thing we assume they
know, but they don't know.
It's how do we specificallysolve their problem?
That's right.
In this 30 minute consultation,you are going to get this, this
and this, not just get a 30minute consultation?
Caleb Agee (08:36):
Yeah, in this free roofing inspection you will get
our you know a price and ourrecommendation as to whether you
should file this with insuranceor not.
Brandon Welch (08:45):
Yeah, exactly.
Sometimes it's this package ofgoods you will get exactly X, y
and Z.
And so just clarifying thatthing, and then also like remind
them that go back to the whichmeans trick which we talked
about four or five episodes ago,which means your bills will be
lower, yes, which means you willsleep better at night, which
(09:05):
means you'll never have to worryabout X, y or Z again.
Right, that's right.
And so it's like how do wesatisfy that void without the
pain or fear that they have?
Yeah, and then also seems likea no duh, but so many people
forget to give the reasonablenext step for action.
They just say go to our website.
What the heck am I supposed todo?
Caleb Agee (09:24):
there.
Call now.
Brandon Welch (09:25):
Yeah, call now.
And it's like, well, it's 1030.
Why would I call now?
Cause the ad's playing at 1030.
It's like give them areasonable next step.
But um, like pull over and goto the website now, probably not
(09:49):
.
But um call this number ordownload this pricing guide or
come by our location, somethinglike that.
But you have to give them somesort of next thing to do to
solve this.
Need, pain, hope or fear?
Last thing where can we targetthe most amount of people buying
right now?
That's the media equation.
(10:09):
Yeah, so you go.
Okay, I've got a good price,speed, hassle solution.
I'm messaging it correctly andI'm giving them reasonable next
steps.
Where do I put that message?
Where are the most peoplebuying right now in the category
?
Caleb Agee (10:21):
Yeah, and I think the most obvious places end up
being like Google ads, somedigital medias like Google ads
meta, which is Facebook andInstagram.
You know there are differentpeople.
You can be a little bit moreintrusive, but this could be in
a lot of other venues.
It could literally be thepeople buying right now might be
at next to the register.
(10:42):
It might.
It could be, you know, pop-upum banners that show up.
It could be um at yourdrive-through.
You know there are so manyoptions as far as the media goes
, um, there's some obvious onesthat you know that you would go
to first.
But when you get this strategyright and you speak to their
need pain, hope or fear andconnect that to how your product
(11:04):
satisfies the media, really, ittakes care of itself.
It's more of a logic play whenyou're genuinely asking.
Well, I know exactly who thisperson is.
I've thought a lot about them.
I know all the feelings theyhave.
I know what they're goingthrough.
I've thought a lot about them,I know all the feelings they
have.
I know what they're goingthrough right now before they
call me about what I'm selling.
So therefore, I know exactlywhere they are and I'm going to
(11:25):
put my ads there.
Brandon Welch (11:26):
Yes, great.
Caleb Agee (11:28):
Those are usually high targeted and therefore cost
more.
Brandon Welch (11:32):
That's what I was going to add.
So people are probably askingwhy wouldn't I use a Today Media
all the time?
Because it's people buying.
Right now, that media tends tobe 20 to 100 times more
expensive per person you reach.
Google CPMs like cost to reach1,000 people are between $500
and $1,500.
We're going to talk about it ina second Broadcast.
(11:53):
Broad untargeted medias aremore like 5 to 15.
So it could be hundreds oftimes more to reach them and
you're like well, why would Icare about reaching the people
who aren't buying now?
Because these are going to bethe ones that become the
customers you actually want.
So we just talked aboutstrategy, message and media for
today customers.
(12:14):
Let's move to tomorrowcustomers Winning the customer
over before they ever need whatyou sell.
The magic of this is the samemagic that happens when you have
a trusted friend a familymember, someone you believe in
their word, precedes any amountof skepticism or transaction
that you need to do with them toprove their value.
(12:35):
I already believe in Caleb.
If Caleb brought me an idea,I'm listening.
I'm probably 90% there.
I may fight him just becauseit's fun.
But he loves it when I do that.
I love it.
But you want to become that,Caleb.
You want to become that trustedfriend in their life so that
(12:55):
when the tens of thousands ofpeople in your market who will
tomorrow, or two months from now, or six months from now need
what you do, they go ah, Caleb,or ah insert your brand name.
That is why we do tomorrowmarketing and that's why the
tomorrow customer we recommendas does the largest study ever
(13:16):
done on marketing, called theLong and Short of it, by Les
Bennett and Peter Fieldssuggests that 60 to 70% of your
budget should be in tomorrowmarketing.
Emotional branding Makingpeople like you trust you
believe in you, long before theyknew what you do.
Caleb Agee (13:33):
This is on the strategy side of things.
This is where you end up seeingbeing able to stay at a high
value.
When we were talking about.
You know, having to compromiseon price, speed or hassle with a
today customer.
These, these people don't wantyou to compromise.
They want you to be everythingyou've always been for them
because you've you've built arelationship with them and
(13:55):
they're calling and they'rewilling to pay full price
because they know who you areand they trust you and they want
you already.
And the strategy, as we say inthe Maven Method specifically,
is that we would have commitment, quality and relationships.
We would build commitment.
(14:15):
Show them that we're here forthe long haul.
We'll be here.
And that is actually what youare doing to yourself.
When you commit to tomorrowmarketing, you're not saying I'm
going out of business tomorrow,so I'm going to advertise like
I'm going out of businesstomorrow.
No, you're going to be inbusiness for the next two years.
Brandon Welch (14:30):
So make a plan that looks like you're going to
be in business for two years,here today, here tomorrow, here
for you, right, by the way, whenpeople walk in our door or call
us, having read our book,having listened to our podcast,
having been on our website andgotten the scads of free advice
we've given for years and yearsand years, do you think they're
(14:52):
going?
How cheap can I get you?
Like that's just aFranken-Maven story?
No, they're like tell us theplan versus somebody who called
us and three other marketingagencies that they want to
somehow magically fix theirGoogle ads.
They're going.
What's your rate?
And what else can I get out ofyou?
Caleb Agee (15:12):
How much is it going to cost?
How?
Brandon Welch (15:14):
much is it going to cost?
And do you guarantee I'll getprofitable ROI?
And it's like that's thedifference in the customer you
want.
Now there's time and a place toget a today customer, certainly
if you are operationally orstrategically better.
But you would much rather havethe customer that already
believes in you.
And so the strategy is based oncommitment.
(15:34):
You want to be standing forsome sort of long-term thing for
them, long-term outcome.
We do it this way because,dadgummit, that's the way my
grandpa taught me to do it andI'm not going to compromise to
any of these other crappytransactional ways of doing it.
Yep, I believe in you, I'm herefor you, even if you're not
(15:55):
giving me money right now.
That's commitment.
That's friendship.
That's relationships.
Right, you've seen it done theother way over here.
That makes me mad.
I believe you deserve better.
You're talking about thequality you provide.
And then relationships.
We're going to do this withmedia.
We're going to show up andinvest in them again, just like
(16:17):
any quality relationship.
This kind of speaks to ourmedia schedule.
We're going to be there all thetime.
Caleb Agee (16:23):
Yeah, quality time is one of the biggest factors in
a quality relationship.
Obviously there's there'ssocial nuance there, but you
cannot have a strongrelationship that you don't
spend time with that individual.
Brandon Welch (16:36):
This is also companies that do this well, are
investing in community things.
They are given back to the kids.
They are usually the companiesthat you find have really,
really happy team members andemployees.
These are the companies thatstand for something, they are
pushing causes and they're doingbig things in their industry.
So with tomorrow marketing,it's less about the need, pain,
(16:59):
hope or fear.
Moving on to the message theneed, pain, hope or fear that
their tire's flat and they needit.
Today it's more like every timeyou come to my store you get
not only your tire fixed but youget a 89-point inspection on
your vehicle, because I believein your family being safe and if
I have one percent chance ofmaking you more safe, I'm going
(17:23):
to do that because I'm Ed ofEd's Tire and that's what I
believe right.
Caleb Agee (17:25):
Yep, and it's a layer away from the actual
product.
So with today marketing, themessage ends up being pretty
blunt.
It's right there next to-.
Brandon Welch (17:38):
Do you need tires ?
We have tires.
Come buy some tires, power'sout For 20% off.
Caleb Agee (17:42):
Fix my power Like plumbing's not working.
Fix my toilet.
Fix my power like plumbing'snot working.
Fix my toilet like that's.
It's pretty.
It's pretty clear when we getto tomorrow marketing we're
stepping back and we're talkinglong term about why they would
need a good plumber that theycan trust and they're.
We're going to talk about theirhopes of not getting, you know,
screwed over by by a shyster,by somebody who's going to take
(18:03):
advantage of them because theydon't know how much plumbing
should cost.
And we're going to be in theircorner, be on their team, and
you position yourself that wayfor years.
Brandon Welch (18:12):
I think of one of our best tomorrow campaigns I
think we've ever done and it wasvideos of grandparents doing
sentimental things with theirgrandkids.
So they were baking apple pies,they were on the tractor, they
were doing those things and thatwas like 25 seconds of the
30-second commercial and at theend it just said basically here,
when you need us right, youdeserve, they deserve the best,
(18:34):
and it was for an estateplanning company.
Caleb Agee (18:35):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (18:36):
And so.
Caleb Agee (18:37):
They were not selling apple pies.
Brandon Welch (18:39):
Yeah, they were not saying call right now for a
free consultation.
Now is it okay to put a littletoday.
Next step, of course You'regoing to sweep with a really
good tomorrow campaign, evenwithout the price, speed and
hassle stuff in there.
You're going to sweep peoplethat have been watching you for
a while and they go.
(18:59):
Oh, it's finally time for me tocall.
Caleb Agee (19:01):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (19:01):
I think we'll get that free consultation right.
Yeah, but we're not hitting theneeds, pains, hopes and fears
on the nose.
We're just saying, man,shouldn't life be this way?
Let me show you something thatmakes you laugh, cry or get a
little mad about something, andhere's how we solve that.
And, when you're ready, here'swhat you can do about it.
That's the softer approach totomorrow marketing.
(19:22):
But we have to have thatemotional hook in there.
We have to make them laugh, cryor get angry.
Caleb Agee (19:27):
Because we're going to be memorable.
They don't need us, they have noreason to give us any.
The time of day Right, we'veinterrupted their day.
They don't need what we'reselling today because my tire is
not flat.
I don't need that.
So you have to bond with me,you have to get my attention
with entertainment.
Give me something exciting, fun, emotional.
(19:48):
Give me some reason to listento you, to hear what you say,
and everybody wants to beentertained.
Everybody wants to have, wantsto enjoy.
You know you and Carter talkedabout this a few weeks ago.
We want to enjoy even theadvertising that we have to
listen to.
Right, we feel like we have to,but think about like Superbowl,
(20:09):
everybody skips.
They don't skip the commercialsat the Superbowl either,
because they're great.
What if your ads were like that?
This is that's tomorrowmarketing in its best.
Brandon Welch (20:18):
Yep, so that's what we're doing.
And then when it comes to themedia, because repetition breeds
recall, repetition breedsrecall, repetition breeds recall
, repetition breeds recall.
We want to be with the samegroup of people over and over
and over again.
You don't want to just randomlythrow your emotional tomorrow
(20:40):
marketing messages everywhere orthey won't build.
The science says at about sevento eight exposure points.
Then we can change our messageor maybe start with a different
audience, but until then youneed to be in front of the same
people, the same message.
Caleb Agee (21:00):
Yeah, when we talk about annual planning as you
move into the season, this isthe place I caution you the most
.
really, you shouldn't throw outany babies with the bath water
when you're talking about annualplanning because, um, most
things do something and I wouldcaution you to to just pick up,
(21:20):
you know, keep your marketingbudget in a pot and pick it up
and move it around to another.
You know, move that pot around.
You want a tree that's going togrow really strong roots and
and a lot of times people arejust picking up and moving
around, especially in yourtomorrow medias.
You want to dedicate yourselfto this audience.
They are your audience.
Do not give up on them Now, if,if it's not performing, if
(21:42):
there's something else.
There are extreme circumstanceswhere we would say, okay, maybe
you would move it along, butmost often, I'm going to say
that you probably need to lookat your message.
Yeah, and and um, and maybe thecost of the audience, if it's
not super efficient, but ifyou're truly reaching a large
audience minimal targeting,targeting or none at all yeah,
(22:03):
you should stay with them foryears, yes, and years.
Brandon Welch (22:06):
And when you've, we do yeah, and you're buying.
The principle here is buy themost amount of people you can
afford to buy daily.
So for TV that means buying aprogram where people come back
in every day, such as news orsome game show or some regularly
reoccurring Monday throughFriday program.
Caleb Agee (22:27):
Everybody tunes in for that, or the same people
tune in for that every day.
Brandon Welch (22:35):
Yep, If it's radio, it's buying the same
station at least 40 spots a week, 6a to 7P, before you add
another one.
Okay, no fewer than like 25,but at least 40 before you add
another one.
You want optimal frequency.
Yep, if it's Facebook, it'slike not changing our audiences
all the time.
Sometimes we can reach peoplethrough meta Facebook, instagram
and it's like we commit to thesame audience so they keep
(22:57):
seeing us.
Caleb Agee (22:57):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (22:57):
Kind of the same thing with YouTube, and there's
some nerdy ways.
You have to think abouttargeting those people.
Think about targeting thosepeople, but the algorithms even
know that they're better offshowing a.
If you set the campaign to anobjective of like what they call
reach or awareness, they knowto make people aware it takes
time, and so if it's a billboard, don't buy the program that
(23:20):
puts you on random digitalbillboards.
Buy the same location.
Caleb Agee (23:23):
Yep, so I see you every day on my drive to work.
Brandon Welch (23:25):
Yeah, billboards by the same location.
Yep, so I see you every day onmy drive to work.
Yeah, the only thing we'rechanging every month or two,
usually with a medium-sizedbudget, is the message, right?
Yep.
So quick recap on three pillarsof tomorrow customers Strategy
is be committed to them.
Talk about the quality youprovide.
Build a relationship by showingup, entertaining them even when
(23:45):
they're not buying right now.
And the media is like, by aschedule that allows you to talk
to them daily.
And really the most profitablemarketing plans have 60 to 70%
of their money in that tomorrowmarketing campaign.
Caleb Agee (23:58):
Yes, you may need to work, stair-step yourself up
there.
You may not be able to justswing, you know, 60% of your
budget in that directionimmediately, but start budgeting
for that plan ahead.
Uh, if, if you're working onfourth quarter, start thinking
about next year.
Maybe you can't start till thesummertime If you haven't been
(24:18):
investing in tomorrow marketing,or maybe you need to just start
with a little bit.
Get there and and commityourself to it.
This is a long-term play.
This is you, are.
You're becoming a part of theirlives.
Brandon Welch (24:31):
Yep, so um, and, by the way, that makes all the
other things cheaper.
It really does when peoplealready know who you are dude.
More of them show up at yourdoor going yep, been thinking
about you for years.
Caleb Agee (24:41):
Show me somebody who's complaining about their
Google ads and I will show yousomebody who's probably not
investing in Tomorrow Media.
Brandon Welch (24:46):
Yep, they're not well-known, liked or trusted.
Caleb Agee (24:49):
No.
Brandon Welch (24:50):
Google ads take care of themselves.
When you have that Yep, okay,last customer Yesterday, this is
easy.
You've got a group of peoplewho have already given you their
money, their trust, their timeand you just want to love on
them and you're going yeah, butI sold them a roof and they
don't need that for 30 moreyears.
Keep doing it.
Caleb Agee (25:07):
They know somebody.
Brandon Welch (25:07):
They know somebody and they are already
statistically likely to referyou close to the sale, Like if
they had, if they did businesswith you in the last year or two
.
It's like, eh, somebody askedthem.
They'll probably be like yeah,I used these guys.
Caleb Agee (25:20):
Yeah, I got a guy yeah.
Brandon Welch (25:21):
But two years disappears like that in the
scheme of marketing and itdiminishes and that bond and
that feel good that they hadwith you diminishes, so you can
keep that alive.
You do not have to let that diejust by sending them an email
every month and you're goingyeah, but it's roofing.
(25:42):
How do I talk about roofing?
Well, maybe once in a while youtalk about cleaning out your
gutters and all the obviousthings with roofing.
Caleb Agee (25:48):
Yeah, you're not trying to sell them a roof with
your yesterday marketing Right.
Brandon Welch (25:53):
You are.
What you are doing is eitheragain making them laugh, cry or
get angry.
You can send them a recipe.
You can send them five thingsto do with the family this month
.
You could send them.
There's a certain amount ofcelebrating your own people.
Hey, wish Caleb a happy 10-yearanniversary.
At Frank and Maven, it could be.
Hey, we're supporting thiscause.
(26:16):
Would you help us?
It could be very lighthearted.
The magic is that they see youto some sort of frequency after
the sale.
I think doing customer eventsis another really good way to do
this.
Caleb Agee (26:28):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (26:29):
Throw the barbecue for all your past
customers Going to a barbecuenext weekend.
For that type of a company youcould.
Caleb Agee (26:37):
I'll be there.
Brandon Welch (26:38):
Hey, see you there.
Okay, you could do giveawaysand drawings and fun Christmas
things Also.
Social media is a good, gooduse of this.
Yes, it is.
Caleb Agee (26:50):
Yeah, If you get any amount of followers on your
social media, I'm going toassume they're probably your
past customers or people youhave connection with.
So social media is a strong.
Now we've talked about the thecons of your business page not
performing well in those, but um, the strategy here specifically
, is added value, support andtribal bond.
(27:12):
Yes, and so those three thingsare the things we're trying to
add, and that does not need tobe on the nose.
I'm a roofer, I'm selling you.
Hey, think about us next timeyou need a roof, or your buddy
needs a roof.
Every once in a while it couldbe that.
Brandon Welch (27:25):
Added value.
It could be information, but itcould be something like hey, we
bought 20 tickets to theCardinals this weekend.
First come, first serve.
And it's like, wow, I didn'thave to pay anything for that
and you invited me to the localgame.
Caleb Agee (27:38):
That sounds great, or hey?
Brandon Welch (27:39):
you're a past customer, come to our booth at
this XYZ event and get a freehat.
Caleb Agee (27:43):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (27:43):
It could be.
Caleb Agee (27:44):
it could be anything it could be, that's a little
bit of tribal thing too.
Yeah, gear swag all of that.
If you make it cool enough.
That is how you build a tribe.
There's a lot of um tribalthings that you can do just by,
just by giving people coolthings that they'll be proud to
own, proud to have these theseare tribal bond, right, that's
right.
Brandon Welch (28:05):
We bought these obnoxiously heavy-duty, really
cool mugs and we give them toeverybody we come in contact
with.
Caleb Agee (28:13):
They're like half an inch thick on the walls inside.
You could murder somebody withthis.
Brandon Welch (28:15):
It's heavy, not liable Not to be used as a
weapon.
Yeah, cool stuff, like makethem wear your badge, like it's
a cool thing, like I have thebarber that I go to.
I love their logo.
I think it's the coolest thing.
Caleb Agee (28:30):
what they stand for and all this stuff.
Brandon Welch (28:32):
So you want that and don't overcomplicate it Like
, be funny, be relevant For therecord.
If you do have a product thatbrings people joy, like a luxury
type product I'm talking to myjewelers, I'm talking to my
(28:53):
enthusiast brands or experiencesfor heaven's sake, talk about
the thing, because you send meany email that has anything to
do with aviation.
I'm reading the thing full stop.
Caleb Agee (29:08):
You send me anything that has to do with, so I get
Brandon to open my email.
That's right.
Helicopters inside.
Did you see this helicopter?
Brandon Welch (29:14):
You should, though.
Caleb Agee (29:15):
That's a good idea.
That's a good way to get myattention.
Brandon Welch (29:16):
Yeah, you want some free copywriting?
Just send me an email about ahelicopter right, but you know
your tribe there Again.
If you're a commodity or aservice, maybe not.
If you're an enthusiast luxuryproduct or experience, 100%
bring people back to the joy.
Our boat dealers, even our cardealers people have joy with
those things right.
(29:37):
Yeah, so anything you'd add tothat?
Caleb Agee (29:39):
No, I think, yeah, don't be afraid to have fun with
it.
And then, once again, when wemove to this message section,
you first are getting to knowthis customer and I think,
hopefully, if you're anempathetic person, if you think
creatively a little bit aboutwho this person is, you can
think of something you have thatcould add value to their life,
(30:00):
outside of the service orproduct you sell.
Brandon Welch (30:02):
Maybe even it's that you're a dad.
Caleb Agee (30:04):
Yeah, you give dad advice, yeah what about if
you're a pathetic person thoughEmpathetic, empathetic, I'm just
pathetic, yeah or apathetic,then you'd just be lazy.
Brandon Welch (30:17):
Then you start a marketing podcast.
Caleb Agee (30:19):
Oh my gosh, I don't think so.
Brandon Welch (30:23):
Hey, last thing with the, just to go through the
principle, just to say it outloud Needs, pains, hopes, fears
are still applicable to theyesterday customer.
They have to do with eitherenthusiast or lifestyle type
things.
And you're asking, on the mediaside, where can I or where will
I communicate with my pastcustomers?
(30:43):
Often?
Caleb Agee (30:45):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (30:45):
And my recommendation is pick the one
that is the easiest for you todo.
Yeah, All of them are cheap.
Throwing an event if that'syour thing, do it.
If you can commit to some sortof fun email tip lifestyle thing
a month or a couple times amonth, do that in email.
If you're just really good atsocial media, make sure they're
all following you and make sureyou're kind of boosting that to
(31:08):
where they all see it.
But do that, do the socialmedia shtick.
Caleb Agee (31:11):
But yeah, and this is the audience, especially when
we talk about email or texting.
This is the audience thatcannot be taken away from you
and that's a big thing.
All of these other medias,these other two customers, the
medias you invest in could goaway like just right away.
They could just disappear andthis audience is yours.
Brandon Welch (31:35):
We talked to a guy today who has like 1,500
past customers and these peopleall spend.
If he would just ask them, theywould spend several hundred
dollars a year with him, yeah,and he's just waiting for him to
call back.
He actually bought the business.
But I'm like dude, that's money.
There's probably $200,000 or$300,000 in sales just by making
(32:01):
sure those people are comingback to you.
I also think of a medicaleyewear company we worked with.
They also had tons of pastcustomers and the industry.
Um, average is like that theaverage person gets new glasses
or frames, whatever every 18 to20 months or something we're
like.
What if that could happen every12 to 14 months?
(32:22):
And we did the math on that andit was millions of dollars and
it's like sometimes you justneed to remind them it's time to
get your oil change or it'stime to have your HVAC service.
And if you do that and scrapethat faster than it would have
normally happened, you aremaking money that didn't exist
because you can't get time back,and so just increasing that
(32:44):
frequency of return customer isa big, big function of past
customers.
So, hey, check out the MavenMarketer, and if you want us to
help you build your marketingplan and go through these
pillars, we would love to dothat.
In the Maven MarketingMastermind we're having a ton of
fun.
We do that every otherWednesday and all you need to do
to join that is go tomavenmethodtrainingcom, get
(33:08):
yourself signed up.
You'll get the email.
You can send questions.
You can say here's my business,here's my budget, how would you
allocate it?
That would just be a ton of fun.
Caleb Agee (33:16):
It is.
It already is a ton of fun.
It is a ton of fun.
It would be more fun if youwere in there.
Brandon Welch (33:20):
It would be way more fun.
That's right.
Caleb Agee (33:22):
No offense to anybody else To anybody who's
already in there.
Brandon Welch (33:24):
Yeah, It'd be more fun for them.
Though, too, I can speak forthe tribe.
Speak of that.
See our little tribal bond Seewhat we did there.
So, mavenmethodtrainingcom,we'd love to have you in the
mastermind.
Get yourself a copy of theMaven Marketer, if you'll agree
with me that summer the firstperson to agree that summer is
like still here for theforeseeable future, uh-huh, I
might just send you one.
(33:45):
I might wrap it in like I don'tknow Fall leaves, no, no, I was
thinking I don't know sunscreenor sunglasses.
Caleb Agee (33:53):
I don't know what I was thinking.
I don't know.
Brandon Welch (33:55):
Hey, big thanks to Nate, the Camera Guy, our
show producer.
We don't give enough love toNate.
Yes, but he's the one who cutsout the stupid flubs Like you
just didn't see.
Okay, yeah and uh there's.
Caleb Agee (34:07):
He's probably got a lot of blackmail on us as far as
uh, just us looking dumb.
Tell Nate how he makes us lookreally good.
So everybody, everybody'ssaying Nate rocks Allegedly, huh
, allegedly yeah.
Brandon Welch (34:19):
Yeah, send, send, nate your things at Mavenmonday
, at frankandmavencom, yes, andwe'll be back here every Monday
answering your real-lifemarketing questions, because
marketers who can't teach youwhy are just a fancy lie.
Have a great day.
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