March 17, 2025 • 46 mins
Search Ain’t the Strategy
If you’re paying $300 for a lead while your competitor pays $73, it might not be your Google guy’s fault.
This week, Brandon and Caleb unpack why some businesses win big on search—and why others stay stuck spinning their wheels. Spoiler: it has nothing to do with keywords and everything to do with timing.
They dive into real campaign data from two similar companies and show how one shift—marketing to tomorrow customers—lowered cost per lead, boosted conversions, and built a pipeline that keeps compounding.
This episode is a wake-up call for businesses stuck in the “I need leads now” mindset. If you want to grow without grinding harder, this is where to start.
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Host: Brandon Welch
Co-Host: Caleb Agee
Executive Producer: Carter Breaux
Audio/Video Producer: Nate the Camera Guy
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caleb Agee (00:00):
And people advertise like I need leads tomorrow, I
need the result tomorrow.
Obviously, there are seasonswhen you do need that I'm not
going to deny.
But people advertise in thistoday transactional style and
they're never thinking more thana lead away or a week away, and
what they really should bethinking about is the years
ahead.
Brandon Welch (00:23):
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, brandon Welch,and I'm here with Caleb, the
camera guy AG.
Yes.
Nate and Carter have bailed forSunny Skies and we said we
don't need them anyway.
That's right.
Nate.
If this works out, let's startlooking for a job.
Caleb Agee (00:42):
If anybody knows a shelter for Nate the Guys get
Sarah McLaughlin for a.
Brandon Welch (00:47):
They'll have like 500 calls.
Caleb Agee (00:49):
Do the commercial for you, I will remember you.
Brandon Welch (00:53):
That's right, hey .
This is the place where weanswer your real-life marketing
questions so you can grow yourbusiness, eliminate waste in
advertising and achieve the bigdream.
And today we are debunking a Iwould call it a blockade against
the big dream.
This mentality of growingbusinesses through Google and
(01:14):
that's I mean, that's disruptivestuff.
Right, the title should haveupped our CTR today if we want
to use some Google terms.
Yeah, but here's the thing webuilt this business largely off
of Google search marketing.
We still spend millions andmillions of dollars.
Actually, we spend more everyyear on it.
So all this is said with a fullcontext of both sides of what
(01:40):
we're going to talk about today.
But the title is Broadcast theAnswer to your Google Problems.
And Google, as anybody who hasspent a dime on it knows, has
not gotten easier.
It has gotten.
Caleb Agee (01:54):
More expensive harder.
Yeah, more competitive.
Brandon Welch (01:58):
We have to spend more time and money training
every year to keep the same Imean just to stay the same
performance, and that's it's alittle bit common sense, because
if you rewind, maybe 10 yearsago, while we were starting this
agency, it was still aquote-unquote new.
I would say it was.
Yeah, it wasn't a novelty, itwas New, but it was not
mainstream, right?
(02:19):
Yeah, not every single businessdid it.
There was a lot of legacyplayers that were like I don't
need Google, right.
Why would I give them my money?
And then this adoption phase ofGoogle is that essentially
every business knows they needto do something with paid search
or some sort of visibility on asearch engine at least, and so
(02:41):
inventory and spots to be on thesearch engine.
There's more people competingfor it, supply and demand.
The more demand there is, theless supply and then therefore
the price goes up.
And so Google has, you know,done that in a number of ways
both increased the cost bysupply and demand and then just
flat out gotten greedy in a lotof ways.
We've talked about that in alot of episodes, but we're not
(03:02):
going to go quite into the weeds.
We're just assuming you knowthat Google is tougher than it
used to be.
Yeah.
And we're saying what do we doabout that?
Caleb Agee (03:09):
Yeah, we're assuming also that you are trying to win
at the search engine right nowand, for the record, we believe
that that is a part of theformula, but it's the smaller
part, and we're going to getinto that a little bit later.
I think, um, in the early yearsyou have to go there, you have
(03:29):
to go a little bit.
You know knows the grindstoneand you got to grind out and
you're going to pay a lot morefor the same thing and you're
going to deal with all of that.
But, um, as you mature as abusiness, this is where you need
to move.
No doubt this is where you needto go, and if you stay in Google
land, you will reach a plateau,you will hit the ceiling and
(03:50):
you will run out of the abilityto grow profitably Profitably
being the key word.
Profitably as a marketer, as anadvertiser, if you live in the
search engines only.
Brandon Welch (04:02):
Yes, that's reality.
The name of the game, withGoogle and any of these medias
we're going to talk about thatare, like today, driven is that
he who can afford to pay themost for a customer wins.
And do you want to be the guypaying the most for a customer,
or do you want to be the guypaying the least amount of money
to earn a customer?
Yeah, that's what we're goingto talk about.
Yeah, On that note.
On that note, would you ratherhave a $73 cost per lead or a
(04:26):
$313 cost per lead?
$73 sounds good Sounds betteron the service right.
Hopefully this isn't a trickquestion.
Would you rather have a 27.5%conversion rate from appointment
or, sorry, lead to appointment,or a 7.2% conversion rate?
27 sounds really really good 27sounds a lot better, right.
Yeah.
(04:47):
Would you rather youradvertising reach 531,200
customers, potentially thismonth, or?
Caleb Agee (04:56):
2,213, this month 531,000.
Bob, I'll take 530,000, right.
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (05:01):
These are real numbers from two real campaigns
that we have had our hands on,and these these are in the
roofing category and I pickedthese two particular clients
because they are very, verysimilar businesses.
Like any math changes market tomarket.
There's a lot of nuances withcompetition or market size or
number of years in business, butthese guys have both been in
the business about the sameamount of time.
(05:22):
They both have very similarcost per clicks on Google.
They both have very, verysimilar markets.
Matter of fact, they're both inthe Midwest and they're next
door to each other.
Yeah.
They both are led by great menwho have a similar worldview,
similar cultures, similar waysof going about executing their
(05:43):
business.
They even have because wecreated them very, very similar
websites and similar call toaction websites.
Yet RooferOne has that $73 costper lead and RooferTwo has that
$313 cost per lead.
Caleb Agee (05:58):
They have the same Google Ads management because
we're doing it as well.
Brandon Welch (06:04):
And we have been doing it for long amounts of
time right, yes.
So we have seen inside both ofthese campaigns, we've largely
built them and we're doing thesame things that we know how to
do and we have a pretty goodtrack record of making Google
very profitable for our clients.
Most of our clients have amultiple six-figure budget per
year on Google.
Advertisement Example (06:22):
Yeah easily.
Brandon Welch (06:24):
So these aren't small numbers.
These aren't obscure pieces ofdata.
That's actually.
I took the last year, I took2024, and that's where those
numbers came from.
So that's roofer one versus two.
What is the difference, Caleb?
Why is one killing it and theother is average?
That's actually, by the way,$300 for a roofing lead off
search engine is pretty-.
Caleb Agee (06:44):
How bad Average that's actually.
By the way, $300 for a roofinglead off search engine is pretty
Not bad.
A lot of roofers would be happywith that.
Yes.
Or think that it's okay.
Brandon Welch (06:48):
By the way, those numbers I quoted were Google
search numbers.
Those are actually what they'repaying to Google per lead that
they get Phone call or form.
Caleb Agee (06:55):
Fill yes, just to get really specific, the
difference between roofer oneand roofer two is that roofer
one has marketed to tomorrowcustomers specifically on
broadcast Broadcast Televisionand or radio.
Brandon Welch (07:10):
Yes, this applies to both.
In this case it is television.
Yes, and roofer two has not yetmarketed to tomorrow customers,
at least throughout the periodof time of those numbers they
had not.
Now here's a quick thing toknow.
There are three types ofcustomers we're going to talk
about today.
You guys know that if you'vebeen anywhere around the Maven
(07:31):
method or read the MavenMarketer book or spent any time
listening to this, podcast.
Caleb Agee (07:35):
You can grab a copy on Amazon if you want, you can
grab a copy on Amazon.
Brandon Welch (07:37):
It's a bestseller , yeah, and they will ship it
right to your door.
I, and they will ship it rightto your door.
I've seen them do it.
There are today customers,tomorrow customers and yesterday
customers.
But you already knew thatbecause you're all Maven
marketers.
That's right, and the reasonthat's important is because
search engines are primarily andalmost only capable of reaching
(07:58):
that today customer.
And so if we wanted to be moreaccurate about this episode
today, we could have said aretomorrow customers the cure to
your today customer problems?
And the answer is of coursethey are, and we're going to
explain why.
But you know them mostly astypes of media that you might be
prompted to buy.
And so the today customer, justfor a reminder, that's people
(08:20):
who actively woke up and they'relike I got to have it today.
They're in shopping mode.
Maybe they've known they'veneeded it for a long time, maybe
they just now figured out theyneeded it.
Refrigerator broke, tire gotslashed, windshield got a rock
in it, hvac didn't work, roofstarted leaking, something like
that, right, but that's peoplewho suddenly are in the market,
right, for whatever reason.
And today customers primarilycare if they have not been won
(08:44):
over before.
They primarily care about whatCaleb Price convenience hassle.
Yes, how much can you save me?
How fast can you get it done?
And then what's the friction?
How much BS do I have to gothrough?
Caleb Agee (08:56):
to get this done.
How easy can you make it?
Yep.
Brandon Welch (08:58):
So to be like an attractive option for a today
customer, ie somebody who justmet you on a search engine page
and hasn't heard about you.
Otherwise you're going to haveto be that cheaper price, you're
going to have to have somebetter way of delivering the
product and you're going to haveto make some sort of guarantee
or something that makes theconfidence in choosing you
better.
And those things are expensive,right yeah, those cost us
(09:19):
margin.
Caleb Agee (09:20):
They cost you yeah.
Brandon Welch (09:21):
And really they cost us quality of customers.
So it's not that there'sanything wrong inherently with
Google.
It's just that people don't useit to go randomly look for
roofers, say, until theyactually need a roofer.
Caleb Agee (09:33):
That's right.
Brandon Welch (09:34):
And so it's incapable of creating an
awareness outside of that momentof purchase.
And by the time you got to thatmoment of purchase, it is a
very, very cantankerous,friction-filled process, and
that's why a lot of people loveit, because it tends to work
fast, but that's why over time,it's like, oh my gosh, it's
(09:54):
tough because there's so manypeople at that finish line.
There's 50 roofers in a 20-mileradius trying to get that click
or that pick me and to be theone they actually pick.
It doesn't really matter whoyou are necessarily in that
moment, as long as your reviewsand stuff are relatively good.
They're calling those you know,you and five of your
competitors, and figuring outwho can save them time you know
(10:15):
convenience or hassle.
Caleb Agee (10:16):
And that's because, as at the moment, they search
for you know roofer near me, orfix my roof, or whatever the
keyword is you're bidding on.
If they, when they make thatkind of search, it means that
they have no preference to youas a company whatsoever.
All they need is a roof.
They need it fixed, and we'regoing to let you in on a sad
(10:37):
secret.
But, uh, you and the other fiveroofers all have the ability to
fix their roof.
Brandon Welch (10:44):
Yes, there, you all think you're the best.
Caleb Agee (10:46):
You all think you're the best.
Roofers all have the ability tofix their roof.
Yes, and you all think you'rethe best.
You all think you're the best.
You think you have betterservice, customer service,
whatever the problem is, you'vegot about 160 words to convince
somebody that you are differentthan the other three people on
that page, or five.
Brandon Welch (11:01):
And that's assuming your website's on point
and you had the strategy andthe budget in the first place to
show up to them right.
Caleb Agee (11:08):
Yeah, you're just a name.
They're drawn out of the hatEven after you go through all
that heartache.
Brandon Welch (11:13):
it's just what can you do for me?
It's not, I don't want to knowabout you.
So that's the today customerthat exists in every category.
Nothing wrong with todaycustomers.
That's a necessary part ofgrowing a business.
Sometimes that's going to behow people find you.
They didn't have the benefit ofknowing you before but, what if
?
What if?
And, by the way, that's a verysmall group of people.
(11:35):
If your ads are only showing topeople buying today, you are
limited to how many people arebuying today.
Caleb Agee (11:41):
Well, that was the smaller number from Roofer 2,
right?
Yes, it's 2,000 or somethinglike that.
Brandon Welch (11:47):
Yeah that was a week's time, so that was in
their respective markets 2,313or whatever.
We said that 2,300 number, thatwas the amount of people who
were in the market for roofsthat week, or at least the
amount of people who weresearching for roofs.
Now there's some math you canuse to figure out about how many
(12:07):
people that is in your category.
But just on the platform ofcommon sense we will say how
often does it take somebody tobuy a roof?
Caleb Agee (12:16):
20 years.
Brandon Welch (12:17):
Yeah, 10, 15, 20 years right.
Yeah.
How long does it take somebodybefore they get around to buying
a car?
Caleb Agee (12:22):
Three to four years, yeah, 35.
Brandon Welch (12:25):
HVAC units.
It's probably eight to 12 years, right?
Yeah, how long is it forcheeseburgers?
Caleb Agee (12:32):
I had one two days ago and then another one for
leftovers.
So three or four days, rightyeah?
Brandon Welch (12:39):
But most products and most people that are trying
to grow a service business havea long-term buying cycle and
you don't exactly know when thatcustomer is going to be buying.
You just know it's going to besomewhere in that long range of
time, right?
So we would have to just assumeinstantly that there are way
more people buying in the futurethan there are buying today or
(13:01):
this week or this month, right?
Yes.
So that's that difference in 200or 2,300 people.
That's all the people thatwe're searching for a roofer.
Yet the other thing we're goingto talk about, which is a
broadcast audience, which isessentially anybody who lives in
modern America, is walkingaround, using media to either
(13:22):
get their news or get theirentertainment, or fill their
house with noise when they don'twant it to be quiet, or filling
the restaurant with noise, orinfluencing their friends and
family some way, shape or form.
Now there are a lot of mediasthat do that.
Obviously, there's a lot, a lot, a lot of them.
There's social media, there'sbillboards, there's prints and
all these things.
We're talking about broadcasttoday.
(13:42):
There's a lot of episodes wecan link to here that will lay
this out, but broadcast is thecheapest way to reach large
groups of people.
Yes.
And everybody's going yeah, butI don't watch TV anymore, I
don't do X, Y, Z.
Caleb Agee (13:55):
Or I'm not targeting my most ideal customer, or I'm
not yeah, yes, we have answersto those questions.
Brandon Welch (14:02):
but today we're just going to talk about
reaching large groups of people,and broadcast is still the
biggest way to do that.
Scientifically, that's not.
No media buyer in America wouldargue against that.
Yeah, and dollar for dollar, itcosts anywhere between $5 and
$10 per thousand people reachedin those medias.
Okay, other digital medias arefancier we use them.
(14:24):
We spend millions of dollars onthose.
As digital medias are fancier,we use them.
We spend millions of dollars onthose as well.
They're fancier.
Yes, there's some targetingthings and sometimes that works
out to be a good hybrid solutionto what we're talking about.
But you will pay much, muchmore per person to reach them.
So the tomorrow customer, bycontrast, they're not buying
(14:46):
today.
They don't need your product orservice.
They probably don't want tohear you flap your jaws about it
.
But did you know?
Human beings are walking aroundbored.
Caleb Agee (14:57):
Starved for something to put their attention
on.
Brandon Welch (15:01):
Yes, we give our time and attention to things
that make us feel more like us.
We are always, as Donald Millersays, looking to learn more
about how to thrive or survive.
We are looking for identity.
This is why we read books.
This is why we watch movies.
This is why we scroll threemiles a day with our thumb
through social media.
We are constantly on the huntfor something that makes us feel
(15:22):
more like us, okay, or thatmakes us feel connected to other
people.
We are tribal creatures.
That has not changed.
That's in our genetic makeup.
We are wired to like connectwith other people, things and
ideas, and it gets done largelythrough the form of
entertainment.
So what I didn't ask earlier iswould you rather have 2,300
(15:42):
strangers or 2,300 friends?
Caleb Agee (15:47):
Friends yeah.
Brandon Welch (15:48):
We'd all, rather have 2,300 friends.
Yeah, Some of the introvertsare going.
No, please God, no.
Caleb Agee (15:52):
Yeah, actually I was thinking I don't know if I want
that many friends.
Brandon Welch (15:55):
But when it comes to people who would potentially
be searching for you, you'drather have friends looking up,
because why?
Caleb Agee (16:01):
Because I'm not just a roof to them.
I Because why?
Because I'm not just a roof tothem.
Advertisement Example (16:05):
I'm not just a pretty face.
Caleb Agee (16:06):
Yes, right, it's like search engines like speed
dating right.
Yeah, it's like I'm just apretty face at that point and
all I have to do is make sureI'm prettier than the other ones
on the search engine.
But these people know me theyknow who.
I really am.
Brandon Welch (16:20):
And they choose me because they like me I don't
know if they like you, but theydefinitely know you, they know
you like you.
And then those two things equaltrust, right?
You've spent time with them,they have context, they maybe
know who your family is, or theyknow what you're about, they
know how you roll, yeah, andhuman beings go with what they
know.
Yep, and that's just.
Nobody would argue with that,right?
Mm-hmm.
And so when they know you,they're less likely to be
(16:42):
concerned about those todaythings which are Price
convenience hassle.
It's not just about yeah, whatcan you do for me and how much
are you going to save me?
Yeah, which, by the way, costsyou a lot as a business, yeah,
costs you a lot just on thepurchase price and the
concessions you have to make andall of the hoops you have to
jump through.
(17:02):
It's like calling up yourbrother-in-law, assuming you
like your brother-in-law rightand saying I trust you, I'm not
going to ask the 19 questions tomake sure I'm not getting
screwed.
There's an inherent amount ofbond and trust and just benefit
of the doubt that you get and sofor that reason there's easily
a 10%, 15%, 20% margin that whenyou're earning tomorrow
(17:24):
customers, if you create thatrelationship over time, when it
comes to the finish line, whenthey suddenly enter that buying
mode, you're going to be able tobenefit from.
So tomorrow customers don'tcare about your product as such.
They don't care about roofsbecause they're not buying them.
They don't care about carsbecause they're not buying them.
They don't care about carsbecause they're not buying one.
But if you will entertain themor if you will add some sort of
(17:47):
spark, some conversational bondwith them, they will learn in
time to know, like and trust youlike a long friend like a long
life, friend, right, yeah, yeah.
So are you beginning to see why?
Roofer one who has spent thelast five years investing in
(18:10):
daily exposures, daily messagingwith his community same size
community, same all things goingon as the other roofer, but he
has that benefit of he's beenentertaining them.
We're going to show you howhe's been doing that for a while
, or here just a little bit.
But what you need to know ishe's had a daily commitment to,
in this case, television andsome radio, but mostly
(18:31):
television.
It could be either Either couldbe a good option for you.
And even though he started outat that $300 cost per lead on
search engines, what happenedwithin six to 12 months is that
people who he had been winningover, instead of going and
saying, show me a list of allthe roofers in your market, show
(18:52):
me a list of all yourcompetitors, they said, ah, I
like that guy.
And they searched for hisbusiness name.
Yeah, that's good.
Popped into their mind whentheir roof started leaking, when
it came around, when that 15year cycle started rolling
around for all the people inthat audience, which is half a
million people we talked about,he's the one that popped in
their mind first.
Caleb Agee (19:10):
Yeah.
Or let's say, worst case, maybeyour name doesn't come to mind.
They're like who's that I can'tremember and they search roofer
near me or whatever that is.
Your name is still going to popoff that page because they're
gonna be like, going to be like.
I've heard of them, evensubconsciously.
They don't know why, but theyfeel a trust to you.
They click on it.
They see your face, yoursimilar brand and messaging when
(19:34):
they open the webpage.
Your conversion rates climb.
Your close rates eventuallyclimb too.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
Brandon Welch (19:43):
Are friendships likelier to last if you spend
more time together or less timetogether?
Caleb Agee (19:50):
More time.
Brandon Welch (19:50):
More time.
More time you spend, thestronger the bond gets.
The same is true in marketing.
The same is true for you versusyour competitors.
If you've spent more time inthis case via entertaining
magnetic broadcast advertisingthat pops in their mind when
they aren't even asking to thinkabout a stupid roofer or a
stupid HVAC or a stupid lawyeror whatever that sticks, and
(20:15):
every night that they fallasleep, those things bounce
around in their head and overtime, they just build a
familiarity with you.
So what are we talking about?
Today, customers versustomorrow customers?
If you are struggling with highsearch engine costs, high cost
per leads, low appointment setrates, don't fire your Google or
(20:39):
Facebook media buyer, your leadgeneration guy.
If you don't have a strongbrand, it's hard for everybody.
Caleb Agee (20:47):
It's hard for every single person.
It might not be their fault.
Brandon Welch (20:51):
It might not be their fault.
Caleb Agee (20:53):
It could be some strategic things to get more
juice out of it.
Brandon Welch (20:57):
I was talking to a guy last week who wanted us to
do his stuff and he's likeyou're really good at search.
I'm like, yeah, we're great atsearch.
But he'm like, yeah, we'regreat at search, but he's like
that's all I want.
I don't want any of that crap.
I'm like then, don't, don't askme.
I can make, I can be the bestGoogle buyer in the world and I
think we are.
I think we're really, reallygood at that and I can only make
a 20, 30% difference.
(21:20):
Really, really honest.
Now you let me build a name foryou.
You let me make you a householdname in your market.
You will call me in one yearand you will think I'm the
greatest Google guy ever.
But it didn't have a whole lotto do with that.
Caleb Agee (21:37):
My favorite way to talk about this is just the
analogy of advertising.
Like you're going out ofbusiness, right, and people
advertise like I need leadstomorrow, I need, I need the
result tomorrow, and obviouslythere are seasons when you do,
you do need that.
I'm not going to deny thereality of like you need
(21:57):
business to show up, but peopleadvertise in this today,
transactional, like hand-tostyle, and, um, they're never
thinking more than a lead, likea lead away or a week away, and
what they really should bethinking about is the years
ahead.
And this that's the thing maybewe're not saying is the
patience that it takes to dotomorrow marketing.
(22:20):
It's an investment.
It's going to look like yourretirement portfolio, right,
you're putting the steady, um,the steady money in there, and
at first it's like to look likeyour retirement portfolio, right
, you're putting the steady, um,the steady money in there, and
at first it's like, okay, like,uh, I guess I just kind of save
some.
It's not looking much differentthan if I put in a savings
account, but you watch it afterthe next year and the year after
that and you're going to watchthe you know, exponential
(22:42):
parabolic, if I can parabolicthere you go.
Parabolic, there you go Growth,but you'll watch it start to
curve up.
And that's the difference thatwe see over and over and over
again.
When you have a strong message,not just you're buying
broadcast, okay, we got to makesure we say that it has to be
something that's entertainingand connects to the customer
(23:03):
long-term, because they're notbuying today, they're buying
next year or they're not buyingtoday.
Yes, they're buying next yearor they're buying in five years.
Brandon Welch (23:12):
You're going to stick in their brain and you're
going to feel the differenceToday customers are day trading
Tomorrow customers are mutualfunds.
Mutual funds are not excitingat first.
So for all of the doubters andI can hear them right now the
(23:37):
good news is we have someserious science, serious data
that has recently been released.
If only I'd had this at thebeginning of my career, I would
have spent like 9 million hoursless talking and teaching and
learning about this stuff.
Caleb Agee (23:43):
I would have just said, here's the data, look what
they said yeah, look what theysaid.
Brandon Welch (23:46):
These guys are brilliant.
Their names are Les Bennett andPeter Fields and they did a
14-year study on theeffectiveness of advertising.
They went out to answer thequestion.
We've all been wondering that.
We've all been asking what'sthe best type of advertising,
what's the best mix and what'smy true best return on
investment?
And they studied hundreds ofcompanies and billions of
(24:09):
dollars in ad spend.
It's the largest study that'sever been done in advertising
and they published it in just astudy, like a publication called
the Long and the Short of it,and it is something you can look
up and get your copy.
I would absolutely recommenddoing that.
Or, if you want to use CheatGto say hey, cheat, gpt, tell me
about the long and the short ofit, give me 10 insights from the
(24:30):
long and the short of it, andthen, what does it say about X,
y and Z and what?
If you know, just ask thequestions in relation to that
and it knows like it'll spit outsome really good stuff.
There's also a wonderful videoof them giving a presentation a
few years ago.
It's on YouTube.
So the long and the short of itis the name.
I'm not taking any credit forthis, I'm just reading back what
(24:51):
these brilliant fellasdiscovered.
We use the language today andtomorrow customers.
They use the language ofactivation, which they would
call today customers, and thenthey call brand building, which
is long-term customers.
So tomorrow customers isbranding becoming known like
trusted Activation is todaycustomers transactional.
(25:12):
Buy right now.
Show up spin media to peoplethat are only buying right now.
Yep.
And what they found out is thatit's not about targeting, it's
about trust.
The biggest thing that happenedin their findings is that we've
been assuming it's aboutreaching the right person and
it's actually about makingeverybody the right person
(25:33):
because they learn to love us inour advertising and the brands
that they studied in this verylong period of time, with lots
and lots of dollars to prove it.
Today, customers, people whostayed in that activation mode,
always saying buy now, buy now,show up at the end of the
customer, which, by the way, isvery, very expensive.
It is about 100 times moreexpensive to show up at the
(25:59):
finish line, as it is to buylarge groups of people way
before the finish line.
And they found out at first.
They all look about the same,they all get about the same
result today marketers andtomorrow marketers.
Over time, though, the todaymarketers stayed, you know, in
(26:19):
the same really unprofitablezone, the same zone of like
struggle, while tomorrowmarketers kept climbing and
climbing, and climbing, andeverything got a little bit
better over time, and there'sactually a graph right here.
I printed off these slides andyou'll see it if you go watch
the thing, and they're morebrilliant than I am at
articulating this.
But here's what they found Atthe end of the whole thing
companies who had about a 70%focus on brand building,
(26:40):
somewhere between 60% and 70%,we'll say 70% is the peak and
30% on activation, so that wouldbe 70% in what we're talking
about here, and this actually isin line with this client 70%
broadcast or tomorrow, marketingand 30% of their media and
efforts and messaging around.
Today customers which is, forthis example, search engines are
(27:01):
the ones that grew the fastest.
After about a year's time, theywere growing faster.
They grew with a lot moreprofit margin because they could
charge more.
They were able to increaseprices over time and not have to
stay the low-cost provider.
They had more loyalty, they hadmore referral business and they
(27:23):
had, overall, a less cost ofmarketing.
Their marketing got cheaper andcheaper and cheaper the longer
they did it for a bigger result.
Caleb Agee (27:31):
What do you say to all that I would say?
I wish we had actually had thenumbers in front of us.
But total cost of marketing,percentage-wise for Roofer 1 and
2, massive difference.
We're talking about Roofer one.
I think it's in the low singledigits.
Yes, three 4% 4%.
I want to say and then Roofertwo, what are we talking?
(27:54):
12?
Was 9% to 10% last year.
Okay, yep.
Brandon Welch (27:57):
Yeah, now think about that.
And, by the way, roofer onespent more money, but their top
line revenue is way bigger right.
Now they started.
I'm telling you, these guysstarted RooferOne.
Just started this thing alittle bit sooner than RooferTwo
RooferTwo.
We're going to come back andtalk to you about RooferTwo in
about a year from now.
Yeah, and they're going to bein the range of the other one.
Caleb Agee (28:18):
Yeah, side note, they're going to be all the way
there.
These are like 24 numbers TVnow.
Brandon Welch (28:21):
Yeah, yeah, we put them on.
We got them.
They're on this plan.
Okay, yes, so we have real,real case study to follow up
with See if it's true.
But it's been true for everyclient we've ever done this for,
and we've been doing this 11years.
We're practically experts.
Right, we've got well over our15,000 hours put into it.
Caleb Agee (28:36):
Give me a license.
Brandon Welch (28:38):
I don't know if you can see this.
It has a lot to do with yourpurchase cycle.
We talked about the roofer.
Let's just say it's 15 years.
It takes 15 years for someoneto come back to put a roof on.
Every month there's a littlemore people that come in the
market, yeah, and every monthyou're harvesting all those
(28:58):
seeds you put in the ground,yeah.
So how do you do thiseffectively?
Because we've told you theoutcomes, we've told you the
global strategy here, but youcould really get off the rails
in this.
You would maybe call us liarsif you did this for a couple of
years and then found out itwasn't true.
If you don't have your messagingright.
Yeah, we have a lot of episodeson the actual campaigns we've
(29:21):
built and Nate is going to linkto some of those in the comments
here, just like you'll just seesome random episode titles and
he's going to send you to those.
But here's the short playlist.
Don't just go on and talk aboutyour thing.
Don't say if you need a roofnow, call me now.
Don't just say I'm an estateplanning attorney and if you
(29:42):
need an estate plan, think of me, because guess what?
That's not entertaining.
What's the thing about tomorrow, customers?
Caleb Agee (29:50):
They want to trust you.
They want to be entertained.
They want to be entertained.
Have something more interesting.
Brandon Welch (29:56):
They weren't thinking about your thing.
So as soon as you say the thing, they go.
I don't need that Ignore.
I wonder what I'm going to havefor dinner tonight.
But if you are fun,lighthearted or emotional in
some other way, what we say iswe have to make them laugh, cry
or get angry Smiles, fists ortears.
Right, what is a core value?
Caleb Agee (30:14):
number four here If ads don't bring smiles, fists or
tears, they fall on deaf ears.
Brandon Welch (30:19):
That's a core value of Frank and Maven.
If your advertising does notbring smiles, fists or tears, it
falls on deaf ears.
So make them laugh, cry or getangry.
Do that with characters.
Either make a character inyourself and use the
spokesperson owner, operator orwhatever or, if you don't turn
it up for that challenge, hirecharacters, right that have the
(30:40):
same personality, the samecatchphrases, the same way they
dress, the same quirky ways theytalk, and make them funny.
Make them like TV characters,right.
Yeah, Give them a little bit ofspin.
We're not taking random peopleoff the street and making them
themselves on TV.
We're taking random, averagepeople and we're writing a
character around them Now.
I just said something andeverybody's like I don't know
how the heck I'm going to dothat.
We're going to teach you thatand the links to the episodes
(31:01):
we've already linked to belowand we've got more episodes
coming up.
That's why you listen to themaven marketing podcast every
monday.
Um, but just so you can see likea range of what we're talking
about.
We're going to play a few ofthese commercials right now.
Nate the camera guy is going toedit them in, or maybe ai the
camera guy, al the camera guyhave you ever had life throw you
a humdinger and you had tobounce like a kangaroo?
Advertisement Example (31:22):
no matter how how massive the blow, it's
all about how you handle it, andif you've got a house, that's
nothing but a pain.
You can turn it into cash in amatter of days.
Get a top dollar offer on yourhouse fast at TexasAllCashcom.
Skip the repairs and therealtors too, because we've got
a check that's made out to you.
Sell your house in a matter ofdays at TexasAllCashcom.
Brandon Welch (31:48):
Okay, so that was a guy named Jeremy Heath, out
of Texas.
He's in a very, very, verytoday-driven industry.
He's in a home-buying industry.
He wants to buy your houseright.
Very good man.
He's obviously an Australianguy.
You saw already how we made thepersonality come to life.
Caleb Agee (32:07):
I'm just waiting for you to slip into your accent
and I got a fair dinkum offerfor you, right that's pretty
good.
Pretty good.
Brandon Welch (32:15):
When we read these scripts, I maybe need to
drink a Fosters or something.
It'll really come out or go toOutback or something.
Yeah, order a Bloomin' Onionfor me.
Caleb Agee (32:21):
Yeah, when we read these scripts, you can't not do
it in the accent.
Brandon Welch (32:25):
Yes, because it's part of, and he has well over
20 commercials that we've donein the same cadence, the same
one-off little weird Australiansayings and the same.
You heard those sound effects,the cash registering and when we
deliver a bullet point, wepound.
And it's just it builds.
Yes, that was a little bit moreon the nose about his category,
(32:49):
but he's doing it in anentertaining way, right yeah,
and he makes a promise at theend.
He's got a hook.
He's got a fair dinkum offerfor you, and I don't know what
the heck that is but, it soundsbetter than not a fair dinkum
offer right.
Caleb Agee (33:01):
Yes, sounds better than something else, I guess.
Brandon Welch (33:05):
Now you guys know our dear friends Randy and Dee.
Advertisement Example (33:38):
Let's hear from them for a minute.
I'm going to play a couplespots from their campaign.
Brandon Welch (33:42):
So D is obviously a character, randy's obviously
a character, and they sing inharmony right, I just love them.
You love them, I want to dobusiness with those people.
Caleb Agee (33:51):
They have such a dynamic together.
I don't know there's something.
You just love them.
You love them.
I want to do business withthose people.
They have such a dynamictogether.
I don't know.
There's something about the twoof them.
I love when Randy gets reallybig.
Yes, beautiful windows.
Yeah, like peek the mic.
The funny thing is our studiois right behind my office.
I share a wall with the studio.
Oh, that's funny.
So it's like he's in my headwhen we're having a shoot day.
(34:14):
It's like he's talking to theback of my head, yes.
Just yelling at it.
It's amazing.
Brandon Welch (34:19):
And he's.
That actually kind of is how heis.
But we made him like Tim theToolman, taylor the big
boisterous you know, yeah, timAllen character, and we made her
like the conservative, likesweet, you know, sister, aunt,
you know mom, that you trust,right, yep.
And so we did that very much bydesign because, um, they each
(34:42):
appeal to different people andthey have banter and it's kind
of sort of like the banter thatthe people would have in their
house, maybe even about buying abig, expensive thing like that.
And, and even about buying a big, expensive thing like that,
yeah, and.
And she's like, uh-uh, no way,no, how you're not going to
spend too much, we're not goingto spend too much time in your
house.
I'll come drag them out by theear like, yeah, you know?
Yeah, it's the d guarantee,right, so she has her thing now.
Guys, if you think roofingtakes a long time to produce a
(35:03):
customer, it's like 25, 30 yearsin the window business it's,
it's a lot right we used to makejoke.
The only thing people buy lessoften is a coffin Caskets yeah,
hopefully, hopefully, yeah, soyeah, exactly you only think
about it, maybe once in alifetime.
Once in a lifetime, but Iguarantee you, and actually I
know this to be true people comeup to them at the grocery store
(35:23):
, people stop them at church,people come up to them in
restaurants and ask for theirautograph, and these people
don't give a flip about windowswhen they're doing that.
But they love these people, andso who do you think they're
going to reach out to when thatmoment happens?
And it's hundreds of thousandsof them.
It's not wimpy dozens that shopin one day.
(35:44):
So that was a differentcampaign than Jeremy.
Let's play one more.
Who are we going to play?
Let's play the ladies in white.
Advertisement Example (35:54):
Pearl, do you know that I'm 85?
, 85?
, 85.
If you were a bottle of wine,you'd be worth a fortune.
Don't tell my grandkids but Iam, you're a bottle of wine.
No, I'm worth a fortune.
Oh, and my family's getting allof it when I'm gone.
Well, that's a big surprise.
I won't tell.
Good, keep a cork in it.
Caleb Agee (36:16):
No matter how big or small your fortune is, ozark's
Otherlock can help you protectit.
Call the ladies in white868-8200.
Brandon Welch (36:24):
Okay, so that's a different example.
Yes, the owners are in the spot.
Yes, the owners are in the spot.
Um, they did not and they havethey definitely have a
consistent hook.
Right, they have a differentyou know consistent personality
style, but we hired characterson the front end to have a
(36:44):
shtick yeah because thecharacters were just a little
bit more interesting andentertaining for the concept we
wanted to go with.
We actually were kind ofmodeling the Golden Girls, right
yeah.
So we have two old ladiescutting up.
It's kind of the format of thead.
Yep, we hired very professionalactors.
We do a very, very professional, like couple few days long
(37:05):
shoot to make these happen.
I mean, it's a mini TVproduction in and of itself.
Yeah.
And then the but, theconsistency and the hook and
this thing we made around theattorneys.
Instead of making themattorneys, we made them the
ladies in white right, and sothere's a bunch of people in
their category that have triedto like, take over, take a
little piece of the pie, butnobody is the ladies in white
(37:26):
and nobody has theseentertaining commercials.
We literally get letters fromstrangers who write and say I
don't need what you're selling,but I just want to tell you your
commercials are awesome.
That's awesome and every time weput one online, it's like
hundreds of comments.
Caleb Agee (37:40):
And the cool thing about those ads are people don't
know a whole lot about thatspace, right?
An attorney?
You know a roof needs to notleak, right you kind of you get
that.
The interesting thing aboutthose ads is I'm getting a
little marketing nerdy on you,but people don't understand that
category, so we have to explainwhile we entertain a little bit
(38:02):
, and so people don't even knowthat they're being educated,
while these two ladies are kindof having their back and forth
talk.
But they're also educating youabout something really important
, because a lot of people arelosing tons of money or thinking
they're doing the right thing,but they're giving away all
their money and they actuallyend up hurt by this, and so it's
(38:26):
actually near and dear to theirhearts, lori and Elise's hearts
, to the ladies in white right,to make sure people are educated
, but we do it in anentertaining way and that's kind
of the secret door to help themand they have hundreds of
opportunities a month that comein now because of, because of
that campaign.
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (38:46):
And we spend quite a bit of money on search
as well and we do some otherlead gen things.
But if we stopped thebroadcaster, the component of
the broadcast didn't have it in.
I actually have a estateplanning attorney, two estate
planning attorneys.
We've worked in other markets.
It's like four or five timesthe cost per lead just to do it
without the campaign.
Yeah, and so, um, fun fact, um,you come to frankenmaven these
(39:11):
days, we will teach you all ofthis stuff, we will give you our
best knowledge, like we aredoing on this podcast.
Um, but we will not beresponsible for your growth and
we will not take you on as aclient unless you have some
commitment in your media andmessaging and strategy to the
tomorrow customer, because wewant to work with companies that
grow a lot, not a little bit.
(39:31):
We want it to get easier andeasier and more and more
profitable, not harder and lessprofitable, and so we've just
decided that's what we do aroundhere.
That's right.
So what are the takeaways?
You can lower your cost perlead when everybody knows you,
trusts you and likes you beforethe sale and they start
searching for you by name.
It's way, way cheaper.
(39:52):
It's almost free for them tolook for your name.
It's very expensive for them tolook for your category $20, $30
, $40 a click, sometimes perclick, yeah, not per customer.
Per click.
That's insane.
It takes 10 or more clicksusually to get even an
appointment, and then it takes10 appointments sometimes to get
a customer.
Caleb Agee (40:13):
So you're spending thousands of dollars for a
customer.
You're sweating a little bit onthe doing that math, yeah, and
people come into our door withthose scenarios.
Brandon Welch (40:18):
They're paying, you know, well over a thousand
dollars for a customer.
That only nets them, you know,two or $3,000 in profit and it's
like you can eat off of that.
But wouldn't it be way betterto pay, like you know?
Yeah, a third of that, yeah, um.
So the whole secret?
It's not the media, it's dothey trust you?
It's not the targeting, it'strust, it's not targeting.
(40:39):
It's trust, yeah, and whenpeople trust you, all of the
other things get easier, right.
Yeah.
Um, les Bennett and Peter Field,who did gazillions of hours of
research on this, determinedthat the best mix is 70-30.
You may not be able to do thattoday, because it does take time
(41:00):
to build up.
You may have to start at 50-50or 30-70.
Like it may have to be opposite, but you want to start putting
your seeds in the ground.
Yeah.
If you're a business that hasabout a 10-15 year buying cycle,
you're not going to feel thethe real effects of it till
about a year in.
It will get better and betterand you'll see some positive
things coming, but it's notgoing to be like oh my gosh,
(41:20):
that was home run.
Right Until about a year in.
Caleb Agee (41:24):
I think that's the biggest.
That's the biggest friction.
That's that I'm I'm hearingfrom the other side of this
podcast right now is, but Ican't measure it.
I don't know that it's going towork, and so what I would tell
you is and Brandon's reachingfor some clues along the way
here but this is not a gambleand I think that's what
(41:50):
everybody feels like it is Likewell, I guess I'll try TV and
we'll see if it works.
It's.
I promise you it's not a gamble.
If you have a strong messageand you have a strong commitment
to waiting and the delayedgratification, this will pay off
big time, like big big time,and a lot of you won't have the
patience.
Some of you you're listening tothe podcast, so you're going to
(42:10):
have the patience.
Brandon Welch (42:11):
But some you won't have the patience.
Yes, Some of you.
You're listening to the podcast, so you're going to have the
patience.
You are intelligent.
You're smarter than the averagebear.
Caleb Agee (42:14):
You will place your buy as a 12-month buy.
Yes, not as a.
We'll see how this quarter goes.
Yeah, no, you're going to getused to it.
You commit to it.
Brandon Welch (42:25):
It's a part of your budget and you do it and
you broker and tell them to takemoney out of your mutual fund.
Hopefully not.
If not, you're listening to thewrong podcast.
What you want is Dave Ramsey.
Yeah, go check that one out.
You can find him on the RamseyShow.
If you're struggling with this,gosh, how do I measure it?
That's a different episode,yeah, or you can comment.
(42:45):
I would like to know the sevenclues along the way.
There are ways to measure thatit's working for you.
Caleb Agee (42:49):
Yes.
Brandon Welch (42:49):
Okay, they don't show up as like and please.
The one that it is not is howdid you hear about us?
Well, I saw your TV ad and Iwas just waiting for a roofer ad
to come around, so I figured Ibetter call you after I saw a TV
ad.
People don't do that.
Caleb Agee (43:07):
Human beings don't act like that you don't act like
that yeah, and they'll saywebsite, you know.
Brandon Welch (43:11):
Most people will say it was I looked you up
online.
Well, that's the last placethey looked and that's what they
can remember.
So that's what they're going tosay because they're trying to
be helpful.
But everybody looks you uponline because they need your
phone number, right?
Yeah, it was almost always.
Multiple sources Comscore,Google says that the most wacky
(43:33):
platforms in the world say hey,it's actually not one thing.
It's multiple things.
But if you want to copy theseven clues along the way, just
comment.
I'd like to copy the sevenclues along the way and I'm
going to send you pages 131through 140 in the book and it
talks about when you'll see thebig results and it talks about
how long is it going to take andit gives you some guidelines so
(43:56):
that you know hey, I've gotsome confidence along the way,
because blind trust is tough.
If you don't want to take ourword for it and we have done it
literally hundreds of times andwe can point you to many
millionaires who have followedthis advice and have gotten
stinking rich off of doing this,that's right.
But if that's not good enough,there's some assurance for you.
(44:18):
It's the Maven Marketer andI'll put the names in a hat and
everybody who comments send methe seven clues along the way.
We'll draw out a book and we'llsend you one.
Advertisement Example (44:26):
We like to give away books around here.
Brandon Welch (44:28):
Okay.
Last thing, search is not goingto get easier.
Books are in here, yes.
Okay.
Last thing, search is not goingto get easier.
No, google is making it tougherbecause they're trying to
squeeze every penny they can outof small business owners.
There's some real data comingout that people are using search
less because of AI, so searchmay not be the leader in 10
years from now.
Yeah, I would say.
(44:49):
A big thing is, if they give itto you, they can take it away
from you.
You don't have control over that, but guess what?
People will never stop usingtheir own memory.
People may stop using Google.
Caleb Agee (45:01):
It's the search engine that's always with me.
Brandon Welch (45:04):
Until they get Alzheimer's or die, they will
never stop using their ownmemory.
That's good, and so wouldn'tyou rather build your equity
there?
And the way you do that ismedia being in front of them,
being a part of their life andtheir thought cycle.
Yeah, and the more entertainingyou are, the easier you are to
(45:24):
remember, and so do that.
It makes common sense.
Whether you realize it or not,that's how you buy and select
things, and if you want to lookno further than who you trust in
your own life, we just lost acamera.
See, nate the camera guy.
We missed you, so you're goingto have to take my word for it.
(45:46):
You know what?
This will be fun, caleb, youcan finish it up this time.
I'm here.
Yes, just gone blank, right.
I was going to say you canfinish it up this time.
I'm here.
Yes, just gone blank, right.
Caleb Agee (45:53):
I was going to say on video.
It's maybe not the bestexperience right now.
Brandon Welch (45:56):
Nate the camera guy, you were almost out of a
job, but gosh, we miss you.
Caleb Agee (45:59):
It's working out.
Brandon Welch (46:00):
Hey, become known , liked and trusted.
Tv and broadcast are the bestway to do that in most cities in
America for most service-basedbusinesses, and that's what you
need to know.
Yeah, service-based businesses,and that's what you need to
know.
Yeah, we'll be back here everyMonday answering your real-life
marketing questions, becausemarketers who can't teach you
why are just a fancy lie.
Have a great week.
Caleb Agee (46:20):
See ya.
And people advertise like I need leads tomorrow, I
need the result tomorrow.
Obviously, there are seasonswhen you do need that I'm not
going to deny.
But people advertise in thistoday transactional style and
they're never thinking more thana lead away or a week away, and
what they really should bethinking about is the years
ahead.
Brandon Welch (00:23):
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, brandon Welch,and I'm here with Caleb, the
camera guy AG.
Yes.
Nate and Carter have bailed forSunny Skies and we said we
don't need them anyway.
That's right.
Nate.
If this works out, let's startlooking for a job.
Caleb Agee (00:42):
If anybody knows a shelter for Nate the Guys get
Sarah McLaughlin for a.
Brandon Welch (00:47):
They'll have like 500 calls.
Caleb Agee (00:49):
Do the commercial for you, I will remember you.
Brandon Welch (00:53):
That's right, hey .
This is the place where weanswer your real-life marketing
questions so you can grow yourbusiness, eliminate waste in
advertising and achieve the bigdream.
And today we are debunking a Iwould call it a blockade against
the big dream.
This mentality of growingbusinesses through Google and
(01:14):
that's I mean, that's disruptivestuff.
Right, the title should haveupped our CTR today if we want
to use some Google terms.
Yeah, but here's the thing webuilt this business largely off
of Google search marketing.
We still spend millions andmillions of dollars.
Actually, we spend more everyyear on it.
So all this is said with a fullcontext of both sides of what
(01:40):
we're going to talk about today.
But the title is Broadcast theAnswer to your Google Problems.
And Google, as anybody who hasspent a dime on it knows, has
not gotten easier.
It has gotten.
Caleb Agee (01:54):
More expensive harder.
Yeah, more competitive.
Brandon Welch (01:58):
We have to spend more time and money training
every year to keep the same Imean just to stay the same
performance, and that's it's alittle bit common sense, because
if you rewind, maybe 10 yearsago, while we were starting this
agency, it was still aquote-unquote new.
I would say it was.
Yeah, it wasn't a novelty, itwas New, but it was not
mainstream, right?
(02:19):
Yeah, not every single businessdid it.
There was a lot of legacyplayers that were like I don't
need Google, right.
Why would I give them my money?
And then this adoption phase ofGoogle is that essentially
every business knows they needto do something with paid search
or some sort of visibility on asearch engine at least, and so
(02:41):
inventory and spots to be on thesearch engine.
There's more people competingfor it, supply and demand.
The more demand there is, theless supply and then therefore
the price goes up.
And so Google has, you know,done that in a number of ways
both increased the cost bysupply and demand and then just
flat out gotten greedy in a lotof ways.
We've talked about that in alot of episodes, but we're not
(03:02):
going to go quite into the weeds.
We're just assuming you knowthat Google is tougher than it
used to be.
Yeah.
And we're saying what do we doabout that?
Caleb Agee (03:09):
Yeah, we're assuming also that you are trying to win
at the search engine right nowand, for the record, we believe
that that is a part of theformula, but it's the smaller
part, and we're going to getinto that a little bit later.
I think, um, in the early yearsyou have to go there, you have
(03:29):
to go a little bit.
You know knows the grindstoneand you got to grind out and
you're going to pay a lot morefor the same thing and you're
going to deal with all of that.
But, um, as you mature as abusiness, this is where you need
to move.
No doubt this is where you needto go, and if you stay in Google
land, you will reach a plateau,you will hit the ceiling and
(03:50):
you will run out of the abilityto grow profitably Profitably
being the key word.
Profitably as a marketer, as anadvertiser, if you live in the
search engines only.
Brandon Welch (04:02):
Yes, that's reality.
The name of the game, withGoogle and any of these medias
we're going to talk about thatare, like today, driven is that
he who can afford to pay themost for a customer wins.
And do you want to be the guypaying the most for a customer,
or do you want to be the guypaying the least amount of money
to earn a customer?
Yeah, that's what we're goingto talk about.
Yeah, On that note.
On that note, would you ratherhave a $73 cost per lead or a
(04:26):
$313 cost per lead?
$73 sounds good Sounds betteron the service right.
Hopefully this isn't a trickquestion.
Would you rather have a 27.5%conversion rate from appointment
or, sorry, lead to appointment,or a 7.2% conversion rate?
27 sounds really really good 27sounds a lot better, right.
Yeah.
(04:47):
Would you rather youradvertising reach 531,200
customers, potentially thismonth, or?
Caleb Agee (04:56):
2,213, this month 531,000.
Bob, I'll take 530,000, right.
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (05:01):
These are real numbers from two real campaigns
that we have had our hands on,and these these are in the
roofing category and I pickedthese two particular clients
because they are very, verysimilar businesses.
Like any math changes market tomarket.
There's a lot of nuances withcompetition or market size or
number of years in business, butthese guys have both been in
the business about the sameamount of time.
(05:22):
They both have very similarcost per clicks on Google.
They both have very, verysimilar markets.
Matter of fact, they're both inthe Midwest and they're next
door to each other.
Yeah.
They both are led by great menwho have a similar worldview,
similar cultures, similar waysof going about executing their
(05:43):
business.
They even have because wecreated them very, very similar
websites and similar call toaction websites.
Yet RooferOne has that $73 costper lead and RooferTwo has that
$313 cost per lead.
Caleb Agee (05:58):
They have the same Google Ads management because
we're doing it as well.
Brandon Welch (06:04):
And we have been doing it for long amounts of
time right, yes.
So we have seen inside both ofthese campaigns, we've largely
built them and we're doing thesame things that we know how to
do and we have a pretty goodtrack record of making Google
very profitable for our clients.
Most of our clients have amultiple six-figure budget per
year on Google.
Advertisement Example (06:22):
Yeah easily.
Brandon Welch (06:24):
So these aren't small numbers.
These aren't obscure pieces ofdata.
That's actually.
I took the last year, I took2024, and that's where those
numbers came from.
So that's roofer one versus two.
What is the difference, Caleb?
Why is one killing it and theother is average?
That's actually, by the way,$300 for a roofing lead off
search engine is pretty-.
Caleb Agee (06:44):
How bad Average that's actually.
By the way, $300 for a roofinglead off search engine is pretty
Not bad.
A lot of roofers would be happywith that.
Yes.
Or think that it's okay.
Brandon Welch (06:48):
By the way, those numbers I quoted were Google
search numbers.
Those are actually what they'repaying to Google per lead that
they get Phone call or form.
Caleb Agee (06:55):
Fill yes, just to get really specific, the
difference between roofer oneand roofer two is that roofer
one has marketed to tomorrowcustomers specifically on
broadcast Broadcast Televisionand or radio.
Brandon Welch (07:10):
Yes, this applies to both.
In this case it is television.
Yes, and roofer two has not yetmarketed to tomorrow customers,
at least throughout the periodof time of those numbers they
had not.
Now here's a quick thing toknow.
There are three types ofcustomers we're going to talk
about today.
You guys know that if you'vebeen anywhere around the Maven
(07:31):
method or read the MavenMarketer book or spent any time
listening to this, podcast.
Caleb Agee (07:35):
You can grab a copy on Amazon if you want, you can
grab a copy on Amazon.
Brandon Welch (07:37):
It's a bestseller , yeah, and they will ship it
right to your door.
I, and they will ship it rightto your door.
I've seen them do it.
There are today customers,tomorrow customers and yesterday
customers.
But you already knew thatbecause you're all Maven
marketers.
That's right, and the reasonthat's important is because
search engines are primarily andalmost only capable of reaching
(07:58):
that today customer.
And so if we wanted to be moreaccurate about this episode
today, we could have said aretomorrow customers the cure to
your today customer problems?
And the answer is of coursethey are, and we're going to
explain why.
But you know them mostly astypes of media that you might be
prompted to buy.
And so the today customer, justfor a reminder, that's people
(08:20):
who actively woke up and they'relike I got to have it today.
They're in shopping mode.
Maybe they've known they'veneeded it for a long time, maybe
they just now figured out theyneeded it.
Refrigerator broke, tire gotslashed, windshield got a rock
in it, hvac didn't work, roofstarted leaking, something like
that, right, but that's peoplewho suddenly are in the market,
right, for whatever reason.
And today customers primarilycare if they have not been won
(08:44):
over before.
They primarily care about whatCaleb Price convenience hassle.
Yes, how much can you save me?
How fast can you get it done?
And then what's the friction?
How much BS do I have to gothrough?
Caleb Agee (08:56):
to get this done.
How easy can you make it?
Yep.
Brandon Welch (08:58):
So to be like an attractive option for a today
customer, ie somebody who justmet you on a search engine page
and hasn't heard about you.
Otherwise you're going to haveto be that cheaper price, you're
going to have to have somebetter way of delivering the
product and you're going to haveto make some sort of guarantee
or something that makes theconfidence in choosing you
better.
And those things are expensive,right yeah, those cost us
(09:19):
margin.
Caleb Agee (09:20):
They cost you yeah.
Brandon Welch (09:21):
And really they cost us quality of customers.
So it's not that there'sanything wrong inherently with
Google.
It's just that people don't useit to go randomly look for
roofers, say, until theyactually need a roofer.
Caleb Agee (09:33):
That's right.
Brandon Welch (09:34):
And so it's incapable of creating an
awareness outside of that momentof purchase.
And by the time you got to thatmoment of purchase, it is a
very, very cantankerous,friction-filled process, and
that's why a lot of people loveit, because it tends to work
fast, but that's why over time,it's like, oh my gosh, it's
(09:54):
tough because there's so manypeople at that finish line.
There's 50 roofers in a 20-mileradius trying to get that click
or that pick me and to be theone they actually pick.
It doesn't really matter whoyou are necessarily in that
moment, as long as your reviewsand stuff are relatively good.
They're calling those you know,you and five of your
competitors, and figuring outwho can save them time you know
(10:15):
convenience or hassle.
Caleb Agee (10:16):
And that's because, as at the moment, they search
for you know roofer near me, orfix my roof, or whatever the
keyword is you're bidding on.
If they, when they make thatkind of search, it means that
they have no preference to youas a company whatsoever.
All they need is a roof.
They need it fixed, and we'regoing to let you in on a sad
(10:37):
secret.
But, uh, you and the other fiveroofers all have the ability to
fix their roof.
Brandon Welch (10:44):
Yes, there, you all think you're the best.
Caleb Agee (10:46):
You all think you're the best.
Roofers all have the ability tofix their roof.
Yes, and you all think you'rethe best.
You all think you're the best.
You think you have betterservice, customer service,
whatever the problem is, you'vegot about 160 words to convince
somebody that you are differentthan the other three people on
that page, or five.
Brandon Welch (11:01):
And that's assuming your website's on point
and you had the strategy andthe budget in the first place to
show up to them right.
Caleb Agee (11:08):
Yeah, you're just a name.
They're drawn out of the hatEven after you go through all
that heartache.
Brandon Welch (11:13):
it's just what can you do for me?
It's not, I don't want to knowabout you.
So that's the today customerthat exists in every category.
Nothing wrong with todaycustomers.
That's a necessary part ofgrowing a business.
Sometimes that's going to behow people find you.
They didn't have the benefit ofknowing you before but, what if
?
What if?
And, by the way, that's a verysmall group of people.
(11:35):
If your ads are only showing topeople buying today, you are
limited to how many people arebuying today.
Caleb Agee (11:41):
Well, that was the smaller number from Roofer 2,
right?
Yes, it's 2,000 or somethinglike that.
Brandon Welch (11:47):
Yeah that was a week's time, so that was in
their respective markets 2,313or whatever.
We said that 2,300 number, thatwas the amount of people who
were in the market for roofsthat week, or at least the
amount of people who weresearching for roofs.
Now there's some math you canuse to figure out about how many
(12:07):
people that is in your category.
But just on the platform ofcommon sense we will say how
often does it take somebody tobuy a roof?
Caleb Agee (12:16):
20 years.
Brandon Welch (12:17):
Yeah, 10, 15, 20 years right.
Yeah.
How long does it take somebodybefore they get around to buying
a car?
Caleb Agee (12:22):
Three to four years, yeah, 35.
Brandon Welch (12:25):
HVAC units.
It's probably eight to 12 years, right?
Yeah, how long is it forcheeseburgers?
Caleb Agee (12:32):
I had one two days ago and then another one for
leftovers.
So three or four days, rightyeah?
Brandon Welch (12:39):
But most products and most people that are trying
to grow a service business havea long-term buying cycle and
you don't exactly know when thatcustomer is going to be buying.
You just know it's going to besomewhere in that long range of
time, right?
So we would have to just assumeinstantly that there are way
more people buying in the futurethan there are buying today or
(13:01):
this week or this month, right?
Yes.
So that's that difference in 200or 2,300 people.
That's all the people thatwe're searching for a roofer.
Yet the other thing we're goingto talk about, which is a
broadcast audience, which isessentially anybody who lives in
modern America, is walkingaround, using media to either
(13:22):
get their news or get theirentertainment, or fill their
house with noise when they don'twant it to be quiet, or filling
the restaurant with noise, orinfluencing their friends and
family some way, shape or form.
Now there are a lot of mediasthat do that.
Obviously, there's a lot, a lot, a lot of them.
There's social media, there'sbillboards, there's prints and
all these things.
We're talking about broadcasttoday.
(13:42):
There's a lot of episodes wecan link to here that will lay
this out, but broadcast is thecheapest way to reach large
groups of people.
Yes.
And everybody's going yeah, butI don't watch TV anymore, I
don't do X, Y, Z.
Caleb Agee (13:55):
Or I'm not targeting my most ideal customer, or I'm
not yeah, yes, we have answersto those questions.
Brandon Welch (14:02):
but today we're just going to talk about
reaching large groups of people,and broadcast is still the
biggest way to do that.
Scientifically, that's not.
No media buyer in America wouldargue against that.
Yeah, and dollar for dollar, itcosts anywhere between $5 and
$10 per thousand people reachedin those medias.
Okay, other digital medias arefancier we use them.
(14:24):
We spend millions of dollars onthose.
As digital medias are fancier,we use them.
We spend millions of dollars onthose as well.
They're fancier.
Yes, there's some targetingthings and sometimes that works
out to be a good hybrid solutionto what we're talking about.
But you will pay much, muchmore per person to reach them.
So the tomorrow customer, bycontrast, they're not buying
(14:46):
today.
They don't need your product orservice.
They probably don't want tohear you flap your jaws about it
.
But did you know?
Human beings are walking aroundbored.
Caleb Agee (14:57):
Starved for something to put their attention
on.
Brandon Welch (15:01):
Yes, we give our time and attention to things
that make us feel more like us.
We are always, as Donald Millersays, looking to learn more
about how to thrive or survive.
We are looking for identity.
This is why we read books.
This is why we watch movies.
This is why we scroll threemiles a day with our thumb
through social media.
We are constantly on the huntfor something that makes us feel
(15:22):
more like us, okay, or thatmakes us feel connected to other
people.
We are tribal creatures.
That has not changed.
That's in our genetic makeup.
We are wired to like connectwith other people, things and
ideas, and it gets done largelythrough the form of
entertainment.
So what I didn't ask earlier iswould you rather have 2,300
(15:42):
strangers or 2,300 friends?
Caleb Agee (15:47):
Friends yeah.
Brandon Welch (15:48):
We'd all, rather have 2,300 friends.
Yeah, Some of the introvertsare going.
No, please God, no.
Caleb Agee (15:52):
Yeah, actually I was thinking I don't know if I want
that many friends.
Brandon Welch (15:55):
But when it comes to people who would potentially
be searching for you, you'drather have friends looking up,
because why?
Caleb Agee (16:01):
Because I'm not just a roof to them.
I Because why?
Because I'm not just a roof tothem.
Advertisement Example (16:05):
I'm not just a pretty face.
Caleb Agee (16:06):
Yes, right, it's like search engines like speed
dating right.
Yeah, it's like I'm just apretty face at that point and
all I have to do is make sureI'm prettier than the other ones
on the search engine.
But these people know me theyknow who.
I really am.
Brandon Welch (16:20):
And they choose me because they like me I don't
know if they like you, but theydefinitely know you, they know
you like you.
And then those two things equaltrust, right?
You've spent time with them,they have context, they maybe
know who your family is, or theyknow what you're about, they
know how you roll, yeah, andhuman beings go with what they
know.
Yep, and that's just.
Nobody would argue with that,right?
Mm-hmm.
And so when they know you,they're less likely to be
(16:42):
concerned about those todaythings which are Price
convenience hassle.
It's not just about yeah, whatcan you do for me and how much
are you going to save me?
Yeah, which, by the way, costsyou a lot as a business, yeah,
costs you a lot just on thepurchase price and the
concessions you have to make andall of the hoops you have to
jump through.
(17:02):
It's like calling up yourbrother-in-law, assuming you
like your brother-in-law rightand saying I trust you, I'm not
going to ask the 19 questions tomake sure I'm not getting
screwed.
There's an inherent amount ofbond and trust and just benefit
of the doubt that you get and sofor that reason there's easily
a 10%, 15%, 20% margin that whenyou're earning tomorrow
(17:24):
customers, if you create thatrelationship over time, when it
comes to the finish line, whenthey suddenly enter that buying
mode, you're going to be able tobenefit from.
So tomorrow customers don'tcare about your product as such.
They don't care about roofsbecause they're not buying them.
They don't care about carsbecause they're not buying them.
They don't care about carsbecause they're not buying one.
But if you will entertain themor if you will add some sort of
(17:47):
spark, some conversational bondwith them, they will learn in
time to know, like and trust youlike a long friend like a long
life, friend, right, yeah, yeah.
So are you beginning to see why?
Roofer one who has spent thelast five years investing in
(18:10):
daily exposures, daily messagingwith his community same size
community, same all things goingon as the other roofer, but he
has that benefit of he's beenentertaining them.
We're going to show you howhe's been doing that for a while
, or here just a little bit.
But what you need to know ishe's had a daily commitment to,
in this case, television andsome radio, but mostly
(18:31):
television.
It could be either Either couldbe a good option for you.
And even though he started outat that $300 cost per lead on
search engines, what happenedwithin six to 12 months is that
people who he had been winningover, instead of going and
saying, show me a list of allthe roofers in your market, show
(18:52):
me a list of all yourcompetitors, they said, ah, I
like that guy.
And they searched for hisbusiness name.
Yeah, that's good.
Popped into their mind whentheir roof started leaking, when
it came around, when that 15year cycle started rolling
around for all the people inthat audience, which is half a
million people we talked about,he's the one that popped in
their mind first.
Caleb Agee (19:10):
Yeah.
Or let's say, worst case, maybeyour name doesn't come to mind.
They're like who's that I can'tremember and they search roofer
near me or whatever that is.
Your name is still going to popoff that page because they're
gonna be like, going to be like.
I've heard of them, evensubconsciously.
They don't know why, but theyfeel a trust to you.
They click on it.
They see your face, yoursimilar brand and messaging when
(19:34):
they open the webpage.
Your conversion rates climb.
Your close rates eventuallyclimb too.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
Brandon Welch (19:43):
Are friendships likelier to last if you spend
more time together or less timetogether?
Caleb Agee (19:50):
More time.
Brandon Welch (19:50):
More time.
More time you spend, thestronger the bond gets.
The same is true in marketing.
The same is true for you versusyour competitors.
If you've spent more time inthis case via entertaining
magnetic broadcast advertisingthat pops in their mind when
they aren't even asking to thinkabout a stupid roofer or a
stupid HVAC or a stupid lawyeror whatever that sticks, and
(20:15):
every night that they fallasleep, those things bounce
around in their head and overtime, they just build a
familiarity with you.
So what are we talking about?
Today, customers versustomorrow customers?
If you are struggling with highsearch engine costs, high cost
per leads, low appointment setrates, don't fire your Google or
(20:39):
Facebook media buyer, your leadgeneration guy.
If you don't have a strongbrand, it's hard for everybody.
Caleb Agee (20:47):
It's hard for every single person.
It might not be their fault.
Brandon Welch (20:51):
It might not be their fault.
Caleb Agee (20:53):
It could be some strategic things to get more
juice out of it.
Brandon Welch (20:57):
I was talking to a guy last week who wanted us to
do his stuff and he's likeyou're really good at search.
I'm like, yeah, we're great atsearch.
But he'm like, yeah, we'regreat at search, but he's like
that's all I want.
I don't want any of that crap.
I'm like then, don't, don't askme.
I can make, I can be the bestGoogle buyer in the world and I
think we are.
I think we're really, reallygood at that and I can only make
a 20, 30% difference.
(21:20):
Really, really honest.
Now you let me build a name foryou.
You let me make you a householdname in your market.
You will call me in one yearand you will think I'm the
greatest Google guy ever.
But it didn't have a whole lotto do with that.
Caleb Agee (21:37):
My favorite way to talk about this is just the
analogy of advertising.
Like you're going out ofbusiness, right, and people
advertise like I need leadstomorrow, I need, I need the
result tomorrow, and obviouslythere are seasons when you do,
you do need that.
I'm not going to deny thereality of like you need
(21:57):
business to show up, but peopleadvertise in this today,
transactional, like hand-tostyle, and, um, they're never
thinking more than a lead, likea lead away or a week away, and
what they really should bethinking about is the years
ahead.
And this that's the thing maybewe're not saying is the
patience that it takes to dotomorrow marketing.
(22:20):
It's an investment.
It's going to look like yourretirement portfolio, right,
you're putting the steady, um,the steady money in there, and
at first it's like to look likeyour retirement portfolio, right
, you're putting the steady, um,the steady money in there, and
at first it's like, okay, like,uh, I guess I just kind of save
some.
It's not looking much differentthan if I put in a savings
account, but you watch it afterthe next year and the year after
that and you're going to watchthe you know, exponential
(22:42):
parabolic, if I can parabolicthere you go.
Parabolic, there you go Growth,but you'll watch it start to
curve up.
And that's the difference thatwe see over and over and over
again.
When you have a strong message,not just you're buying
broadcast, okay, we got to makesure we say that it has to be
something that's entertainingand connects to the customer
(23:03):
long-term, because they're notbuying today, they're buying
next year or they're not buyingtoday.
Yes, they're buying next yearor they're buying in five years.
Brandon Welch (23:12):
You're going to stick in their brain and you're
going to feel the differenceToday customers are day trading
Tomorrow customers are mutualfunds.
Mutual funds are not excitingat first.
So for all of the doubters andI can hear them right now the
(23:37):
good news is we have someserious science, serious data
that has recently been released.
If only I'd had this at thebeginning of my career, I would
have spent like 9 million hoursless talking and teaching and
learning about this stuff.
Caleb Agee (23:43):
I would have just said, here's the data, look what
they said yeah, look what theysaid.
Brandon Welch (23:46):
These guys are brilliant.
Their names are Les Bennett andPeter Fields and they did a
14-year study on theeffectiveness of advertising.
They went out to answer thequestion.
We've all been wondering that.
We've all been asking what'sthe best type of advertising,
what's the best mix and what'smy true best return on
investment?
And they studied hundreds ofcompanies and billions of
(24:09):
dollars in ad spend.
It's the largest study that'sever been done in advertising
and they published it in just astudy, like a publication called
the Long and the Short of it,and it is something you can look
up and get your copy.
I would absolutely recommenddoing that.
Or, if you want to use CheatGto say hey, cheat, gpt, tell me
about the long and the short ofit, give me 10 insights from the
(24:30):
long and the short of it, andthen, what does it say about X,
y and Z and what?
If you know, just ask thequestions in relation to that
and it knows like it'll spit outsome really good stuff.
There's also a wonderful videoof them giving a presentation a
few years ago.
It's on YouTube.
So the long and the short of itis the name.
I'm not taking any credit forthis, I'm just reading back what
(24:51):
these brilliant fellasdiscovered.
We use the language today andtomorrow customers.
They use the language ofactivation, which they would
call today customers, and thenthey call brand building, which
is long-term customers.
So tomorrow customers isbranding becoming known like
trusted Activation is todaycustomers transactional.
(25:12):
Buy right now.
Show up spin media to peoplethat are only buying right now.
Yep.
And what they found out is thatit's not about targeting, it's
about trust.
The biggest thing that happenedin their findings is that we've
been assuming it's aboutreaching the right person and
it's actually about makingeverybody the right person
(25:33):
because they learn to love us inour advertising and the brands
that they studied in this verylong period of time, with lots
and lots of dollars to prove it.
Today, customers, people whostayed in that activation mode,
always saying buy now, buy now,show up at the end of the
customer, which, by the way, isvery, very expensive.
It is about 100 times moreexpensive to show up at the
(25:59):
finish line, as it is to buylarge groups of people way
before the finish line.
And they found out at first.
They all look about the same,they all get about the same
result today marketers andtomorrow marketers.
Over time, though, the todaymarketers stayed, you know, in
(26:19):
the same really unprofitablezone, the same zone of like
struggle, while tomorrowmarketers kept climbing and
climbing, and climbing, andeverything got a little bit
better over time, and there'sactually a graph right here.
I printed off these slides andyou'll see it if you go watch
the thing, and they're morebrilliant than I am at
articulating this.
But here's what they found Atthe end of the whole thing
companies who had about a 70%focus on brand building,
(26:40):
somewhere between 60% and 70%,we'll say 70% is the peak and
30% on activation, so that wouldbe 70% in what we're talking
about here, and this actually isin line with this client 70%
broadcast or tomorrow, marketingand 30% of their media and
efforts and messaging around.
Today customers which is, forthis example, search engines are
(27:01):
the ones that grew the fastest.
After about a year's time, theywere growing faster.
They grew with a lot moreprofit margin because they could
charge more.
They were able to increaseprices over time and not have to
stay the low-cost provider.
They had more loyalty, they hadmore referral business and they
(27:23):
had, overall, a less cost ofmarketing.
Their marketing got cheaper andcheaper and cheaper the longer
they did it for a bigger result.
Caleb Agee (27:31):
What do you say to all that I would say?
I wish we had actually had thenumbers in front of us.
But total cost of marketing,percentage-wise for Roofer 1 and
2, massive difference.
We're talking about Roofer one.
I think it's in the low singledigits.
Yes, three 4% 4%.
I want to say and then Roofertwo, what are we talking?
(27:54):
12?
Was 9% to 10% last year.
Okay, yep.
Brandon Welch (27:57):
Yeah, now think about that.
And, by the way, roofer onespent more money, but their top
line revenue is way bigger right.
Now they started.
I'm telling you, these guysstarted RooferOne.
Just started this thing alittle bit sooner than RooferTwo
RooferTwo.
We're going to come back andtalk to you about RooferTwo in
about a year from now.
Yeah, and they're going to bein the range of the other one.
Caleb Agee (28:18):
Yeah, side note, they're going to be all the way
there.
These are like 24 numbers TVnow.
Brandon Welch (28:21):
Yeah, yeah, we put them on.
We got them.
They're on this plan.
Okay, yes, so we have real,real case study to follow up
with See if it's true.
But it's been true for everyclient we've ever done this for,
and we've been doing this 11years.
We're practically experts.
Right, we've got well over our15,000 hours put into it.
Caleb Agee (28:36):
Give me a license.
Brandon Welch (28:38):
I don't know if you can see this.
It has a lot to do with yourpurchase cycle.
We talked about the roofer.
Let's just say it's 15 years.
It takes 15 years for someoneto come back to put a roof on.
Every month there's a littlemore people that come in the
market, yeah, and every monthyou're harvesting all those
(28:58):
seeds you put in the ground,yeah.
So how do you do thiseffectively?
Because we've told you theoutcomes, we've told you the
global strategy here, but youcould really get off the rails
in this.
You would maybe call us liarsif you did this for a couple of
years and then found out itwasn't true.
If you don't have your messagingright.
Yeah, we have a lot of episodeson the actual campaigns we've
(29:21):
built and Nate is going to linkto some of those in the comments
here, just like you'll just seesome random episode titles and
he's going to send you to those.
But here's the short playlist.
Don't just go on and talk aboutyour thing.
Don't say if you need a roofnow, call me now.
Don't just say I'm an estateplanning attorney and if you
(29:42):
need an estate plan, think of me, because guess what?
That's not entertaining.
What's the thing about tomorrow, customers?
Caleb Agee (29:50):
They want to trust you.
They want to be entertained.
They want to be entertained.
Have something more interesting.
Brandon Welch (29:56):
They weren't thinking about your thing.
So as soon as you say the thing, they go.
I don't need that Ignore.
I wonder what I'm going to havefor dinner tonight.
But if you are fun,lighthearted or emotional in
some other way, what we say iswe have to make them laugh, cry
or get angry Smiles, fists ortears.
Right, what is a core value?
Caleb Agee (30:14):
number four here If ads don't bring smiles, fists or
tears, they fall on deaf ears.
Brandon Welch (30:19):
That's a core value of Frank and Maven.
If your advertising does notbring smiles, fists or tears, it
falls on deaf ears.
So make them laugh, cry or getangry.
Do that with characters.
Either make a character inyourself and use the
spokesperson owner, operator orwhatever or, if you don't turn
it up for that challenge, hirecharacters, right that have the
(30:40):
same personality, the samecatchphrases, the same way they
dress, the same quirky ways theytalk, and make them funny.
Make them like TV characters,right.
Yeah, Give them a little bit ofspin.
We're not taking random peopleoff the street and making them
themselves on TV.
We're taking random, averagepeople and we're writing a
character around them Now.
I just said something andeverybody's like I don't know
how the heck I'm going to dothat.
We're going to teach you thatand the links to the episodes
(31:01):
we've already linked to belowand we've got more episodes
coming up.
That's why you listen to themaven marketing podcast every
monday.
Um, but just so you can see likea range of what we're talking
about.
We're going to play a few ofthese commercials right now.
Nate the camera guy is going toedit them in, or maybe ai the
camera guy, al the camera guyhave you ever had life throw you
a humdinger and you had tobounce like a kangaroo?
Advertisement Example (31:22):
no matter how how massive the blow, it's
all about how you handle it, andif you've got a house, that's
nothing but a pain.
You can turn it into cash in amatter of days.
Get a top dollar offer on yourhouse fast at TexasAllCashcom.
Skip the repairs and therealtors too, because we've got
a check that's made out to you.
Sell your house in a matter ofdays at TexasAllCashcom.
Brandon Welch (31:48):
Okay, so that was a guy named Jeremy Heath, out
of Texas.
He's in a very, very, verytoday-driven industry.
He's in a home-buying industry.
He wants to buy your houseright.
Very good man.
He's obviously an Australianguy.
You saw already how we made thepersonality come to life.
Caleb Agee (32:07):
I'm just waiting for you to slip into your accent
and I got a fair dinkum offerfor you, right that's pretty
good.
Pretty good.
Brandon Welch (32:15):
When we read these scripts, I maybe need to
drink a Fosters or something.
It'll really come out or go toOutback or something.
Yeah, order a Bloomin' Onionfor me.
Caleb Agee (32:21):
Yeah, when we read these scripts, you can't not do
it in the accent.
Brandon Welch (32:25):
Yes, because it's part of, and he has well over
20 commercials that we've donein the same cadence, the same
one-off little weird Australiansayings and the same.
You heard those sound effects,the cash registering and when we
deliver a bullet point, wepound.
And it's just it builds.
Yes, that was a little bit moreon the nose about his category,
(32:49):
but he's doing it in anentertaining way, right yeah,
and he makes a promise at theend.
He's got a hook.
He's got a fair dinkum offerfor you, and I don't know what
the heck that is but, it soundsbetter than not a fair dinkum
offer right.
Caleb Agee (33:01):
Yes, sounds better than something else, I guess.
Brandon Welch (33:05):
Now you guys know our dear friends Randy and Dee.
Advertisement Example (33:38):
Let's hear from them for a minute.
I'm going to play a couplespots from their campaign.
Brandon Welch (33:42):
So D is obviously a character, randy's obviously
a character, and they sing inharmony right, I just love them.
You love them, I want to dobusiness with those people.
Caleb Agee (33:51):
They have such a dynamic together.
I don't know there's something.
You just love them.
You love them.
I want to do business withthose people.
They have such a dynamictogether.
I don't know.
There's something about the twoof them.
I love when Randy gets reallybig.
Yes, beautiful windows.
Yeah, like peek the mic.
The funny thing is our studiois right behind my office.
I share a wall with the studio.
Oh, that's funny.
So it's like he's in my headwhen we're having a shoot day.
(34:14):
It's like he's talking to theback of my head, yes.
Just yelling at it.
It's amazing.
Brandon Welch (34:19):
And he's.
That actually kind of is how heis.
But we made him like Tim theToolman, taylor the big
boisterous you know, yeah, timAllen character, and we made her
like the conservative, likesweet, you know, sister, aunt,
you know mom, that you trust,right, yep.
And so we did that very much bydesign because, um, they each
(34:42):
appeal to different people andthey have banter and it's kind
of sort of like the banter thatthe people would have in their
house, maybe even about buying abig, expensive thing like that.
And, and even about buying a big, expensive thing like that,
yeah, and.
And she's like, uh-uh, no way,no, how you're not going to
spend too much, we're not goingto spend too much time in your
house.
I'll come drag them out by theear like, yeah, you know?
Yeah, it's the d guarantee,right, so she has her thing now.
Guys, if you think roofingtakes a long time to produce a
(35:03):
customer, it's like 25, 30 yearsin the window business it's,
it's a lot right we used to makejoke.
The only thing people buy lessoften is a coffin Caskets yeah,
hopefully, hopefully, yeah, soyeah, exactly you only think
about it, maybe once in alifetime.
Once in a lifetime, but Iguarantee you, and actually I
know this to be true people comeup to them at the grocery store
(35:23):
, people stop them at church,people come up to them in
restaurants and ask for theirautograph, and these people
don't give a flip about windowswhen they're doing that.
But they love these people, andso who do you think they're
going to reach out to when thatmoment happens?
And it's hundreds of thousandsof them.
It's not wimpy dozens that shopin one day.
(35:44):
So that was a differentcampaign than Jeremy.
Let's play one more.
Who are we going to play?
Let's play the ladies in white.
Advertisement Example (35:54):
Pearl, do you know that I'm 85?
, 85?
, 85.
If you were a bottle of wine,you'd be worth a fortune.
Don't tell my grandkids but Iam, you're a bottle of wine.
No, I'm worth a fortune.
Oh, and my family's getting allof it when I'm gone.
Well, that's a big surprise.
I won't tell.
Good, keep a cork in it.
Caleb Agee (36:16):
No matter how big or small your fortune is, ozark's
Otherlock can help you protectit.
Call the ladies in white868-8200.
Brandon Welch (36:24):
Okay, so that's a different example.
Yes, the owners are in the spot.
Yes, the owners are in the spot.
Um, they did not and they havethey definitely have a
consistent hook.
Right, they have a differentyou know consistent personality
style, but we hired characterson the front end to have a
(36:44):
shtick yeah because thecharacters were just a little
bit more interesting andentertaining for the concept we
wanted to go with.
We actually were kind ofmodeling the Golden Girls, right
yeah.
So we have two old ladiescutting up.
It's kind of the format of thead.
Yep, we hired very professionalactors.
We do a very, very professional, like couple few days long
(37:05):
shoot to make these happen.
I mean, it's a mini TVproduction in and of itself.
Yeah.
And then the but, theconsistency and the hook and
this thing we made around theattorneys.
Instead of making themattorneys, we made them the
ladies in white right, and sothere's a bunch of people in
their category that have triedto like, take over, take a
little piece of the pie, butnobody is the ladies in white
(37:26):
and nobody has theseentertaining commercials.
We literally get letters fromstrangers who write and say I
don't need what you're selling,but I just want to tell you your
commercials are awesome.
That's awesome and every time weput one online, it's like
hundreds of comments.
Caleb Agee (37:40):
And the cool thing about those ads are people don't
know a whole lot about thatspace, right?
An attorney?
You know a roof needs to notleak, right you kind of you get
that.
The interesting thing aboutthose ads is I'm getting a
little marketing nerdy on you,but people don't understand that
category, so we have to explainwhile we entertain a little bit
(38:02):
, and so people don't even knowthat they're being educated,
while these two ladies are kindof having their back and forth
talk.
But they're also educating youabout something really important
, because a lot of people arelosing tons of money or thinking
they're doing the right thing,but they're giving away all
their money and they actuallyend up hurt by this, and so it's
(38:26):
actually near and dear to theirhearts, lori and Elise's hearts
, to the ladies in white right,to make sure people are educated
, but we do it in anentertaining way and that's kind
of the secret door to help themand they have hundreds of
opportunities a month that comein now because of, because of
that campaign.
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (38:46):
And we spend quite a bit of money on search
as well and we do some otherlead gen things.
But if we stopped thebroadcaster, the component of
the broadcast didn't have it in.
I actually have a estateplanning attorney, two estate
planning attorneys.
We've worked in other markets.
It's like four or five timesthe cost per lead just to do it
without the campaign.
Yeah, and so, um, fun fact, um,you come to frankenmaven these
(39:11):
days, we will teach you all ofthis stuff, we will give you our
best knowledge, like we aredoing on this podcast.
Um, but we will not beresponsible for your growth and
we will not take you on as aclient unless you have some
commitment in your media andmessaging and strategy to the
tomorrow customer, because wewant to work with companies that
grow a lot, not a little bit.
(39:31):
We want it to get easier andeasier and more and more
profitable, not harder and lessprofitable, and so we've just
decided that's what we do aroundhere.
That's right.
So what are the takeaways?
You can lower your cost perlead when everybody knows you,
trusts you and likes you beforethe sale and they start
searching for you by name.
It's way, way cheaper.
(39:52):
It's almost free for them tolook for your name.
It's very expensive for them tolook for your category $20, $30
, $40 a click, sometimes perclick, yeah, not per customer.
Per click.
That's insane.
It takes 10 or more clicksusually to get even an
appointment, and then it takes10 appointments sometimes to get
a customer.
Caleb Agee (40:13):
So you're spending thousands of dollars for a
customer.
You're sweating a little bit onthe doing that math, yeah, and
people come into our door withthose scenarios.
Brandon Welch (40:18):
They're paying, you know, well over a thousand
dollars for a customer.
That only nets them, you know,two or $3,000 in profit and it's
like you can eat off of that.
But wouldn't it be way betterto pay, like you know?
Yeah, a third of that, yeah, um.
So the whole secret?
It's not the media, it's dothey trust you?
It's not the targeting, it'strust, it's not targeting.
(40:39):
It's trust, yeah, and whenpeople trust you, all of the
other things get easier, right.
Yeah.
Um, les Bennett and Peter Field,who did gazillions of hours of
research on this, determinedthat the best mix is 70-30.
You may not be able to do thattoday, because it does take time
(41:00):
to build up.
You may have to start at 50-50or 30-70.
Like it may have to be opposite, but you want to start putting
your seeds in the ground.
Yeah.
If you're a business that hasabout a 10-15 year buying cycle,
you're not going to feel thethe real effects of it till
about a year in.
It will get better and betterand you'll see some positive
things coming, but it's notgoing to be like oh my gosh,
(41:20):
that was home run.
Right Until about a year in.
Caleb Agee (41:24):
I think that's the biggest.
That's the biggest friction.
That's that I'm I'm hearingfrom the other side of this
podcast right now is, but Ican't measure it.
I don't know that it's going towork, and so what I would tell
you is and Brandon's reachingfor some clues along the way
here but this is not a gambleand I think that's what
(41:50):
everybody feels like it is Likewell, I guess I'll try TV and
we'll see if it works.
It's.
I promise you it's not a gamble.
If you have a strong messageand you have a strong commitment
to waiting and the delayedgratification, this will pay off
big time, like big big time,and a lot of you won't have the
patience.
Some of you you're listening tothe podcast, so you're going to
(42:10):
have the patience.
Brandon Welch (42:11):
But some you won't have the patience.
Yes, Some of you.
You're listening to the podcast, so you're going to have the
patience.
You are intelligent.
You're smarter than the averagebear.
Caleb Agee (42:14):
You will place your buy as a 12-month buy.
Yes, not as a.
We'll see how this quarter goes.
Yeah, no, you're going to getused to it.
You commit to it.
Brandon Welch (42:25):
It's a part of your budget and you do it and
you broker and tell them to takemoney out of your mutual fund.
Hopefully not.
If not, you're listening to thewrong podcast.
What you want is Dave Ramsey.
Yeah, go check that one out.
You can find him on the RamseyShow.
If you're struggling with this,gosh, how do I measure it?
That's a different episode,yeah, or you can comment.
(42:45):
I would like to know the sevenclues along the way.
There are ways to measure thatit's working for you.
Caleb Agee (42:49):
Yes.
Brandon Welch (42:49):
Okay, they don't show up as like and please.
The one that it is not is howdid you hear about us?
Well, I saw your TV ad and Iwas just waiting for a roofer ad
to come around, so I figured Ibetter call you after I saw a TV
ad.
People don't do that.
Caleb Agee (43:07):
Human beings don't act like that you don't act like
that yeah, and they'll saywebsite, you know.
Brandon Welch (43:11):
Most people will say it was I looked you up
online.
Well, that's the last placethey looked and that's what they
can remember.
So that's what they're going tosay because they're trying to
be helpful.
But everybody looks you uponline because they need your
phone number, right?
Yeah, it was almost always.
Multiple sources Comscore,Google says that the most wacky
(43:33):
platforms in the world say hey,it's actually not one thing.
It's multiple things.
But if you want to copy theseven clues along the way, just
comment.
I'd like to copy the sevenclues along the way and I'm
going to send you pages 131through 140 in the book and it
talks about when you'll see thebig results and it talks about
how long is it going to take andit gives you some guidelines so
(43:56):
that you know hey, I've gotsome confidence along the way,
because blind trust is tough.
If you don't want to take ourword for it and we have done it
literally hundreds of times andwe can point you to many
millionaires who have followedthis advice and have gotten
stinking rich off of doing this,that's right.
But if that's not good enough,there's some assurance for you.
(44:18):
It's the Maven Marketer andI'll put the names in a hat and
everybody who comments send methe seven clues along the way.
We'll draw out a book and we'llsend you one.
Advertisement Example (44:26):
We like to give away books around here.
Brandon Welch (44:28):
Okay.
Last thing, search is not goingto get easier.
Books are in here, yes.
Okay.
Last thing, search is not goingto get easier.
No, google is making it tougherbecause they're trying to
squeeze every penny they can outof small business owners.
There's some real data comingout that people are using search
less because of AI, so searchmay not be the leader in 10
years from now.
Yeah, I would say.
(44:49):
A big thing is, if they give itto you, they can take it away
from you.
You don't have control over that, but guess what?
People will never stop usingtheir own memory.
People may stop using Google.
Caleb Agee (45:01):
It's the search engine that's always with me.
Brandon Welch (45:04):
Until they get Alzheimer's or die, they will
never stop using their ownmemory.
That's good, and so wouldn'tyou rather build your equity
there?
And the way you do that ismedia being in front of them,
being a part of their life andtheir thought cycle.
Yeah, and the more entertainingyou are, the easier you are to
(45:24):
remember, and so do that.
It makes common sense.
Whether you realize it or not,that's how you buy and select
things, and if you want to lookno further than who you trust in
your own life, we just lost acamera.
See, nate the camera guy.
We missed you, so you're goingto have to take my word for it.
(45:46):
You know what?
This will be fun, caleb, youcan finish it up this time.
I'm here.
Yes, just gone blank, right.
I was going to say you canfinish it up this time.
I'm here.
Yes, just gone blank, right.
Caleb Agee (45:53):
I was going to say on video.
It's maybe not the bestexperience right now.
Brandon Welch (45:56):
Nate the camera guy, you were almost out of a
job, but gosh, we miss you.
Caleb Agee (45:59):
It's working out.
Brandon Welch (46:00):
Hey, become known , liked and trusted.
Tv and broadcast are the bestway to do that in most cities in
America for most service-basedbusinesses, and that's what you
need to know.
Yeah, service-based businesses,and that's what you need to
know.
Yeah, we'll be back here everyMonday answering your real-life
marketing questions, becausemarketers who can't teach you
why are just a fancy lie.
Have a great week.
Caleb Agee (46:20):
See ya.
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