June 2, 2025 • 22 mins
Should You Change Your Ad Schedule? Read This First.
You're finally running ads that work. But now what?
In this episode, Brandon and Caleb dig into one of the most common—and costly—questions growing businesses ask: “When should I switch up my TV or radio schedule?”
If you're using traditional media to build long-term brand equity, this episode will help you stay strategic and avoid the temptation to jump ship too early.
Inside this episode:
- The real math behind when your audience is ready to buy
- Why “changing things up” too soon can erase years of progress
- A smarter way to add new programs without starting over
- How to evaluate performance without sabotaging tomorrow’s results
- The difference between today campaigns and tomorrow campaigns—and why that matters more than ever
If you're investing in brand marketing, this episode will help you protect the ground you’ve already gained—and grow it.
Join the Maven Marketing Mastermind: MavenMethodTraining.com
Free Marketing Audit: MavenMarketingAudit.com
Our Website: https://frankandmaven.com/
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TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@frankandmaven
Twitter: https://twitter.com/frankandmaven
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/frank-and-maven/
Host: Brandon Welch
Co-Host: Caleb Agee
Executive Producer: Carter Breaux
Audio/Video Producer: Nate the Camera Guy
Episodes Mentioned In This Podcast:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT2L1HXG4SwKFVOwL3iBKPo2-tkDzY1mw&si=O_jqM1I_nZGkdVTJ
Do you have a marketing problem you'd like us to help solve? Send it to MavenMonday@FrankandMaven.com!
Get a copy of our Best-Selling Book, The Maven Marketer Here:
https://a.co/d/1clpm8a
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandon Welch (00:06):
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm joined by Caleb going
camping AG.
Caleb Agee (00:13):
That's right.
Brandon Welch (00:14):
He is going to go like a real man and take his
family.
That's right Down by the river,down by.
What else are you going to?
Caleb Agee (00:21):
do.
It's a lake, I think,technically, but Okay, our lakes
here are rivers.
We were just talking about thattoday.
It's a river with a dam on theend of it With just feet on top
of it.
Brandon Welch (00:29):
Yeah, we just stop them up, but we're going to
have fun.
Caleb Agee (00:32):
We're going to couple three days out in the
wild we just saw a video of abear wandered in a town, in the
town next to the woods wherewe're going so that's a good
start, right before you go yeah,like I saw this like animal
control, catching the bear andputting in a cage to take it
(00:52):
back out to the wild.
Brandon Welch (00:53):
So I saw, I thought you were going to say
but this video, I saw the idea,this guy whose judgment was
temporarily impaired, yeah, umthis bear is barely there.
It just walked up in their yardHaving this picnic and the guy's
like Frank, you gotta leave.
And he's like showing him thedoor.
He's like get out of here,frank.
He's patting him on the backand the bear just swipes him,
(01:16):
scrapes his skin off, justslapped him hey, be careful.
So this is the place For 102episodes, now that we help you
eliminate waste in advertising,grow your business so you can
achieve the big dream.
And if you are new to thepodcast, you want to rewind and
go watch the last two episodes,because that's an overview of
(01:37):
what we've been doing for thelast almost two years.
Next week, I think, isofficially two years.
Yes, it is, and that is superexciting.
It's the first week of June andwe do this because we are
unreasonably obsessed withhelping entrepreneurial people
little companies that are ontheir way to being big companies
do that just a little faster,with a little less heartache.
Caleb Agee (01:58):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (01:59):
And so if you're here for the first time, welcome
.
We are adding members every dayto our subscribers.
If you've been here for thewhole long thing, we're about to
be in a whole new season.
We're turning this thing up.
We're going to start doingdeeper recaps of our episodes
offline.
In some printed materialsYou're going to see more shorts
(02:22):
and more shorts of the videovariety, not below the table,
not below the table.
You'll just see us from thewaist up from now on.
Who knows what's going on.
Caleb Agee (02:33):
You don't know if we're wearing shorts or not.
That's right, and we like tokeep it that way.
Brandon Welch (02:37):
Yeah, there's a period of time when you're doing
podcasting where you're likeokay, let's just prove to myself
that we're actually doing it.
I think we've got a pretty goodtrack record.
Caleb Agee (02:44):
A hundred is pretty solid.
Brandon Welch (02:45):
Yeah, one hundred is a pretty good mark and today
, kind of in true Maven Mondayfashion, we're just taking a
real life topic.
It's a little bit in the weeds,but if you are building a local
company and you were using mediaand if you were trying to
become the most liked, trustedand well-known company in your
market, which most people wouldsay, yes, I would like to have
(03:08):
that, uh, you're going toencounter this question at some
point.
Um and over over the years,this has come from clients.
Uh, this last couple of weekswhere we're onboarding some
really awesome like new partnerclients, and then we, uh, are
increasing some budgets.
I said we're increasing, weclients are increasing their
investment because the stuffwe're talking about just is
(03:28):
working.
It's working and they'regrowing and they want to double
down on it schedule.
Because if you've been part ofthe Maven marketing world or if
you've read the book, you knowthat we are very long-term and
(03:49):
strategic in how we decide toadvertise and where we decide to
advertise.
And the short version of thatis that you want to basically
own an audience over and overand over and over again.
Caleb Agee (04:03):
We call that tomorrow marketing.
Brandon Welch (04:04):
We call that tomorrow marketing.
We call that tomorrow marketing.
You're waiting for the magicalmoment, especially if you're
selling products that take along time for people to get
around to buying, like HVACsystems or home service or legal
products or medical procedures,caskets, things that take a
long time to come around to.
Buying Caskets.
I mean things that take a longtime to come around to buying.
(04:26):
There's a very, very smallamount of people at the finish
line wanting to buy those today,and there's a way to win those
people over too.
But usually the game for TV andradio is that you're trying to
win over a large group of peopleso that one day, when they
happen to suddenly need yourproduct or service, tens and
tens of thousands of them areeventually getting there.
They think of you first andthey feel good about you and
(04:48):
they want to do business withyou versus the other competitors
, and they skip the searchengines or they go to the search
engines already looking foryour name instead of trying to
pick you off a list of randomcompetitors.
So this episode is kind ofassuming that you are on board
with that.
If you haven't thought throughthat process, we have a really
good episode.
It was like in the 50 or 60episode that was called.
Caleb Agee (05:11):
Yeah, we'll link it up in the show notes.
Brandon Welch (05:13):
We'll link it in the show notes, but it's called
Watch this Before you Buy TV orRadio Ads.
Caleb Agee (05:17):
Yes.
Brandon Welch (05:17):
And that would be like definitely a precursor to
this one.
But assuming you've watchedthat, assuming you're well on
your way to being a tomorrowmarketer, uh, we're so proud of
you and the question is going tocome up.
Okay, I've been in this spotfor, you know, two or three
years.
Yeah, when do I switch that up?
Caleb Agee (05:32):
Yeah, and that's, I think, usually you.
The assumptive behind that isshouldn't.
Brandon Welch (05:39):
I throw that out?
Caleb Agee (05:39):
Isn't that audience tired of seeing me?
Or haven't I gotten them?
Gotten everything?
Out of this right, I squeezedit.
As much juice will come out ascome out by now.
Yep, and it's actually.
It's a good question, it's afair question, but it can lead
to a dangerous result if youdon't think about it in the form
of tomorrow marketing.
And so every you know you canactually divide out the life
(06:00):
cycle of your customer, the likethe buying cycle of your
product.
You can divide that out byyears and months and weeks and
you'll find that a very, verysmall percentage of your
audience, or of your you know ofthe world, is buying what you
sell this week or this month.
But if you stack that up, youknow, let's say it's half of 1%
(06:21):
is buying this month.
Brandon Welch (06:23):
Yeah.
Caleb Agee (06:23):
Next month it becomes one whole percent that
you were talking to.
If you're consistently, youknow, having a radio or TV
campaign, you were talking tothat audience.
Now we've got one whole percent.
Yes, statistically is buyingRight.
Next, in four months, we'retalking about.
2% of those people have enteredthe buying cycle and so what we
want to do is stay there for avery, very long time because we
(06:46):
don't want to lose the equitywe've built.
And that percent, that'scompounding interest.
Literally, that's happeningover time.
Brandon Welch (06:53):
This wasn't in our show notes, but that's a
really, really importantequation.
Just stop for a second.
You're going, caleb.
How in the heck would I know ifhalf a percent is buying or 3%
is buying?
You would just look across yourindustry and say, okay, on
average, how long does it takebefore somebody needs my product
?
How long do they haverefrigerators?
13 years?
(07:15):
How long do they have roofs?
And if you don't know that, youreally should be in your
business.
But how long does it take afamily to get around to hiring
an estate attorney?
How long before people switchdoctors?
You can Google that or you cancheat GPT.
It's not that hard to find.
Just find the amount of yearsand it's going to give you a
range.
But let's just say it was 15,right?
15 is a pretty fair number weuse for roofing.
Yeah.
You would take the number oneand divide it by 15, and you
(07:36):
would get 0.06.
We won't say the other 666 isbehind it, but it's 0.06, maybe
0.07.
And then, so that's your,that's your percentage per year,
Yep.
And then you would divide thatby 12 months and that would give
you huh, what do you know?
Half a percent 0.005.
Caleb Agee (07:54):
Hey, we did not plan this.
It's all on the fly, I promiseActually.
Brandon Welch (07:56):
I've done that so many, that math so many times.
Caleb Agee (07:58):
I knew yeah, that's why I picked 15.
Brandon Welch (08:00):
But there would be a half a percent per month
and you're going okay.
Well, if that's true, then ittakes 15 years to get the full
value out of my tomorrowmarketing and, by the way, once
that happens, the first half apercent just reset.
Yeah, I have some clients thatwere early, early on in my
career that are back and theywere new when they started with
(08:24):
me or otherwise they wouldn'thave rolled the dice with me and
yeah.
Yeah, Anyway, they are gettinga background to their very first
customers like home improvement.
Caleb Agee (08:31):
That's so weird.
And they're redoing their roofs.
Brandon Welch (08:34):
So, that is a really cool thing, and taking
that away, you're going okay.
The big idea here is that If wealready have equity with that
audience, why would we change itin the first place?
And this is kind of pointnumber one we're always trying
to fill one glass at a time,yeah, and keep it full.
Keep it full, that's right, andso that's.
Caleb Agee (08:54):
the thing is, we're going to fill it up this month
and we're going to fill it upnext month.
12 months out of the year, 52weeks a year, we're going to be
there.
Brandon Welch (09:03):
I think I should use a dating analogy right now,
because it just seems like themodel of courtship, right?
The longer you court, thestronger the bond is and the
less likely that you're going toyou know he or she is going to
have wandering eyes, right, yep,you're tighter bonded.
But if you stop, you know,going on dates and over time
(09:25):
which is that's the analogy foryour showing up and telling them
wonderful things about yourcompany or talking about their
life, right, and you'readvertising that's when they
become less bonded to you, so itcan deteriorate.
Harvard did a study a whileback that talked about kind of
the revolving window ofinfluence and they said after 18
(09:47):
months it fully deteriorates.
So we tend to consult about ayear, up to a year and a half
worth of our personal experienceand, by the way, a lot of that
happens in the subconscious.
It's not like we go oh, I sawthat ad 7.2 months ago, so I
think I'll call that company.
That's just the naturalsynaptic firing and the
long-term memory that we hold onto for involuntary recall of
(10:09):
companies or brands or people orwhatever.
And so after you could stop, ifyou've been advertising for a
while, you could stop, and up to18 months from now, you would
get some measurable or somemeaningful return on that, but
after that it's kind of gone.
But you don't want to do thatbecause it takes a long time.
It takes 18 months to build upto that too, right.
And so, point being, generallythe answer is never Just add to
(10:37):
it, but there are someexceptions.
Caleb Agee (10:39):
Point number one is what we say around here is fill
one glass at a time.
It means do one thing, do itwell, fill it all the way up,
keep it full For at a time.
It means do one thing, do itwell, fill it all the way up,
keep it full.
For TV filling that glass meansa minimum of three spots a week
.
We would recommend three tofive.
Five if you can.
That's a full glass In a singleprogram.
(11:00):
Typically a habitual, maybe anews program is our favorite.
Brandon Welch (11:04):
News program, something that brings back an
audience every day.
Caleb Agee (11:07):
Probably a little bit more local-minded.
They come back every single dayfor that thing, and you're
going to fill it up to fivetimes a week.
Yes, starting at no less thanthree.
Brandon Welch (11:16):
And somebody's like well, why wouldn't I be in
more places?
Because it takes repetition forthem to remember you, Did you
know.
It takes repetition for them toremember you, did you know.
It takes repetition for them toremember you, did you?
Caleb Agee (11:29):
know it takes repetition for them to remember
you.
Brandon Welch (11:31):
I knew he was going to do that Repetition,
plus the relevancy of your ad.
Repetition plus relevancy.
So the more relevant you are,the less repetitions you have to
have.
But when you're a roofingcompany, you're only going to be
so relevant because peopledon't need the roof replaced, no
matter how much they like you,right, yeah?
Caleb Agee (11:48):
If you're on radio, 35 spots in the 6A to 7P.
That's the daytime radio,that's our philosophy 35 spots a
week.
Brandon Welch (11:58):
If you want more reasons as to why those are the-
.
Caleb Agee (12:02):
Go check out that, go check out that past episode
and then also chapters 9 through15 in the book.
Brandon Welch (12:07):
Kind of outline that Yep.
Caleb Agee (12:10):
Yeah, so fill one glass at a time.
Point number two is this atoday or tomorrow campaign?
That's the question you'regoing to ask yourself.
Yeah, if you're saying hey,should I change it?
Well, if it's tomorrow campaign?
Brandon Welch (12:22):
we just talked about all the reasons that you
probably shouldn't change ittalked about all the reasons
that you probably shouldn'tchange it which tomorrow
campaigns for service companies,which is the majority of this
audience, and for people who aretrying to become well-branded
in their company.
That's the biggest reason touse TV or radio.
However, TV or radio can alsobe very good direct response, or
what we call today medias.
Caleb Agee (12:40):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (12:41):
And if, let's just say, you're promoting an
event?
Caleb Agee (12:44):
Yeah, we used to work with a local event venue,
yeah, and they'd run highfrequency ads right up before
the event or the ticket salesclose.
Brandon Welch (12:55):
Yeah, if you're trying to get like, if you're
measuring the entire thing of Iran it and then 30 days, how
much money did I get from that?
Well, you are going to sort ofshake all the fruit off that
tree before they have a chanceto regrow.
And if you're not thinking longterm I don't I don't
necessarily recommend that, butthere are cases where it's like
(13:16):
I've got to think short term Iactually would change the
audience, because if I'm notassigning any more value to the
campaign than just what am Ipulling off today, I actually
would change the audience moreoften Because, yeah, just you
got to go find a new tree toshake.
Caleb Agee (13:32):
Yeah, the more you do today marketing, the less it
works.
So, if you've done today,marketing to one audience, and
you said, hey, I've got thisshtick, this gimmick, this deal,
this offer.
Yeah.
This event.
Yes, if you've got this shtick,this gimmick, this deal, this
offer, this event, well, thataudience is going to become numb
to the specialness of thatafter you've done it for three
(13:54):
weeks or a month or whateverthat might be, it's a technical
term.
Brandon Welch (13:56):
Specialness, yeah , specialness, yes, you have a
lot of specialness, thank you.
That's what my mom tells me.
But the best plan is to becomethe one that they think of first
anyway, and you do that by justchanging your message with the
same audience over and over.
Just keep being relevant bychanging your message.
So I will say there's a kind ofa recent exception I've had to
(14:21):
this rule so I didn't pull outof an audience, I didn't change
the schedule altogether, but Ihave a client in Atlanta and
very, very expensive market toget into.
I mean we're talking multiplesix figures to be even a small
to medium-sized player inbroadcast, and we've been
magically, after 12 months,things were just like there was
(14:43):
like this is awesome.
It's feeling really good.
And it's like, well, it justtakes that long sometime to
prime the pump and they're inthe you know they're in home
improvement space and you knowall credit to them.
They, they're like this is good, we.
We feel confident when I investsome more money and so what
should we do with that money?
And okay, at that point I knowI'm not going to pull off the
(15:04):
programs.
I've got like two audiences.
I'm really I was really doubleddown on or really heavy in.
I know I'm not going to pullcompletely out because I've got
really good equity and we made agood program decision anyway.
But I did look at GoogleAnalytics.
I'm going this is a tomorrowcampaign but we're getting some
today results as a cherry on topand so, if I can, I think I was
in five spots a week in one ofthe programs and I'm going.
(15:28):
So I'm going to pull a couplespots from that and I'm going to
put them more in this otherprogram because I've got more
money to spend more expensiveprogram because I'm getting more
responses.
There I just reduced it alittle bit.
I kind of shifted some budgetfocus, so it was like 60-40.
Now it's like 40-60.
And that's okay to do becauseyou can maintain an audience
(15:49):
with less frequency, especiallyafter a year's time.
Caleb Agee (15:52):
You still kept that anchor in both places.
You just shifted the weightbecause you had budget to be
able to spend more on the moreexpensive program.
Brandon Welch (15:59):
Yeah, and it really.
In that case it was a lateafternoon program.
We just noticed analyticsdirect traffic is spiking more
at that time than it is middleof the day, it doesn't mean that
other program is bad.
That other program is actuallyprobably a bigger.
Reason why it's working laterin the day it's just later in
the day is when people are morelikely to act on it.
So those sorts of shifts areokay.
(16:20):
But I love this quote the grassdoesn't grow faster by tugging
on it.
Sometimes you just got to waitfor the grass to grow.
Right, that's right, and sothat kind of leads to the third
and final point.
You can shift budget, butgenerally only add to it when
(16:41):
your budget grows.
You can buy that same audience,maybe beef it up, get more with
that audience, or, if you'vegot enough, to buy a whole other
program at spots a week.
Um say it's a bigger program,more expensive.
You couldn't do it at first, ortwo years ago you couldn't do
it, but now you're spendingtwice the money so you can buy
the big.
I'm talking the 6 PM news.
(17:01):
I'm talking 500,000 people in amonth that are watching the
same program.
If you can afford to be onthose all day long, you become a
market leader.
Yep.
Caleb Agee (17:10):
Because remember that that half of it's not half
for you necessarily, but itcould be.
You could do your math half ofa percent of that audience of
that audience, yeah, and youcould find that out pretty
quickly with your, with your buyand the reach and frequency of
that.
But, um, that gets to be a bignumber, yeah, when you're buying
those bigger audiences and it's, it's pretty exciting to yeah
(17:32):
so that was all with TV Radio.
Brandon Welch (17:34):
it's just like I would probably buy 35 spots
minimum 6A to 7P, monday throughFriday.
Again, if you want to know why,go listen to the other episode.
And then I'd probably buy up to55 to 65 spots a week in that
same station.
I would become like the mostaggressive advertiser on that
(17:55):
station before I would go addanother station, you know before
I'd go just like try tofragment that.
So we're not adding otherprograms on radio, whereas we're
adding other stationsaltogether.
So if I'm on the, you know thecountry station and I'm doing
really good at that frequencyand it's like the client's grown
, which happens a lot, and it'slike what do we do next?
(18:18):
Do we switch stations?
No, we keep the same one, weadd another one.
Sometimes you're leapfrogging,sometimes you're beefing one up
to the big level and then you'regoing okay, if I take a little
bit off that big size and I cango pair a little bit more money
with it and buy a second one,still with our minimum
frequencies in place there,that's good.
Caleb Agee (18:35):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (18:36):
That's a lot.
We warned you that it was goingto be a little bit in the weeds
, yeah, so sorry for that.
Caleb Agee (18:41):
It's okay, it's fun.
It's fun, you're a marketer.
There's some nerds on here thatappreciate that you like it.
That's why you listen to week.
(19:01):
You don't miss an episode.
Okay, big recap, go for it,caleb.
Number one don't change yourprogramming just because Fill
one glass.
Maybe you've only got itthree-fifths of the way full.
Well, if you get more money,fill it all the way up and then,
once you're full, then go tothe next glass, move on.
Keep continuing to own anaudience.
Win them.
Don't give up on them, becausethey will turn into buyers
Tomorrow.
Campaigns are a matter of seedtime and harvest.
You, you know, don't go pullingon that grass unless you want
(19:22):
it to come out on you Like it'lljust pull right out of the
ground.
So, and then slight shifts areto bigger audiences are okay.
Are okay when your budgetchanges.
So that's.
Brandon talked about the ratiochanges and things like that.
You can.
There's nuance.
There's nuance to all of this,but what you want to stay true
to is you have built arelationship with a particular
(19:45):
set of people.
And don't let anybody creep inon that audience you are going
to be their choice for insertwhat you do here, yep.
Brandon Welch (19:55):
Good episode.
Caleb Agee (19:56):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (19:56):
Quickie but a goodie.
Pair that with awesomemessaging and some of the stuff
we're going to be talking aboutcoming up.
How to create magneticmarketing campaigns with Carter.
Tell them about the mastermind.
Tell them about the mastermind.
Caleb Agee (20:17):
Hey, if you want to know how to do that and all this
stuff we're talking about here,with a more hand-guided person
in your corner, you couldliterally pull up your buy and
say is this what you're talkingabout?
Brandon Welch (20:22):
Is this a little good, and which program would
you choose?
Yeah, and am I paying too muchfor this?
Caleb Agee (20:28):
We can't do that in this format, unfortunately.
Brandon Welch (20:31):
We can't.
We can tell you stories ofothers, but if you want it done
for you directly, kind of likewe do for full-blown partner
clients.
Here we have a really cool newthing called the Maven Marketing
Mastermind, and you're going towant to go to
mavenmethodtrainingcom.
That's on the screen now, andCarter just put a little cool
sound effect when I said now,didn't you, carter?
(20:53):
So you're going to be able tosign up there and for a very,
very reasonable investment on amonthly basis For right now it's
still $99 a month.
The street price of that isgoing up to $250 very soon, but
you can get in on the groundfloor of that group and you can
show up a couple times a monthand I or Caleb or Leslie or
(21:17):
another strategist on our teamwill be there answering your
questions and just being like,yeah, this is what I would do.
This is what all these wonderfulclients that we talk about here
, getting the great results thisis what they're doing.
So if you'd like to minimizeyour risk and increase your
return on investment of whatevermarketing plan you have going
for your business, that is whythe Maven Marketing Mastermind
(21:39):
exists and we're so freakingexcited about that.
Caleb Agee (21:41):
It'll be a group call twice a month and then I
think another really cool piecewill be we're building a
community around that.
Other marketers, other businessleaders and you guys will be
able to interact and askquestions of each other, learn
from each other.
It doesn't all have to be aboutmarketing.
If you know us in any form,we're all about taking it past,
(22:03):
just marketing business as awhole.
So it's going to be great.
Brandon Welch (22:05):
No doubt, yep, that's mavenmethodtrainingcom,
and right now there's an offerto get that for $99 a month, and
that's cheap insurance.
Yes, and guess what If you hateit?
We're going to give you yourmoney back.
Yeah.
We're not trying to get richoff this.
Yeah.
Just to, just to cover some ofthe cost of doing it.
So we'll be back here everyMonday answering your real life
(22:26):
marketing questions.
Because marketers who cannotteach you why are just a fancy
lie.
Have a great week.
Welcome to the Maven Marketing Podcast.
Today is Maven Monday.
I'm your host, Brandon Welch,and I'm joined by Caleb going
camping AG.
Caleb Agee (00:13):
That's right.
Brandon Welch (00:14):
He is going to go like a real man and take his
family.
That's right Down by the river,down by.
What else are you going to?
Caleb Agee (00:21):
do.
It's a lake, I think,technically, but Okay, our lakes
here are rivers.
We were just talking about thattoday.
It's a river with a dam on theend of it With just feet on top
of it.
Brandon Welch (00:29):
Yeah, we just stop them up, but we're going to
have fun.
Caleb Agee (00:32):
We're going to couple three days out in the
wild we just saw a video of abear wandered in a town, in the
town next to the woods wherewe're going so that's a good
start, right before you go yeah,like I saw this like animal
control, catching the bear andputting in a cage to take it
(00:52):
back out to the wild.
Brandon Welch (00:53):
So I saw, I thought you were going to say
but this video, I saw the idea,this guy whose judgment was
temporarily impaired, yeah, umthis bear is barely there.
It just walked up in their yardHaving this picnic and the guy's
like Frank, you gotta leave.
And he's like showing him thedoor.
He's like get out of here,frank.
He's patting him on the backand the bear just swipes him,
(01:16):
scrapes his skin off, justslapped him hey, be careful.
So this is the place For 102episodes, now that we help you
eliminate waste in advertising,grow your business so you can
achieve the big dream.
And if you are new to thepodcast, you want to rewind and
go watch the last two episodes,because that's an overview of
(01:37):
what we've been doing for thelast almost two years.
Next week, I think, isofficially two years.
Yes, it is, and that is superexciting.
It's the first week of June andwe do this because we are
unreasonably obsessed withhelping entrepreneurial people
little companies that are ontheir way to being big companies
do that just a little faster,with a little less heartache.
Caleb Agee (01:58):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (01:59):
And so if you're here for the first time, welcome
.
We are adding members every dayto our subscribers.
If you've been here for thewhole long thing, we're about to
be in a whole new season.
We're turning this thing up.
We're going to start doingdeeper recaps of our episodes
offline.
In some printed materialsYou're going to see more shorts
(02:22):
and more shorts of the videovariety, not below the table,
not below the table.
You'll just see us from thewaist up from now on.
Who knows what's going on.
Caleb Agee (02:33):
You don't know if we're wearing shorts or not.
That's right, and we like tokeep it that way.
Brandon Welch (02:37):
Yeah, there's a period of time when you're doing
podcasting where you're likeokay, let's just prove to myself
that we're actually doing it.
I think we've got a pretty goodtrack record.
Caleb Agee (02:44):
A hundred is pretty solid.
Brandon Welch (02:45):
Yeah, one hundred is a pretty good mark and today
, kind of in true Maven Mondayfashion, we're just taking a
real life topic.
It's a little bit in the weeds,but if you are building a local
company and you were using mediaand if you were trying to
become the most liked, trustedand well-known company in your
market, which most people wouldsay, yes, I would like to have
(03:08):
that, uh, you're going toencounter this question at some
point.
Um and over over the years,this has come from clients.
Uh, this last couple of weekswhere we're onboarding some
really awesome like new partnerclients, and then we, uh, are
increasing some budgets.
I said we're increasing, weclients are increasing their
investment because the stuffwe're talking about just is
(03:28):
working.
It's working and they'regrowing and they want to double
down on it schedule.
Because if you've been part ofthe Maven marketing world or if
you've read the book, you knowthat we are very long-term and
(03:49):
strategic in how we decide toadvertise and where we decide to
advertise.
And the short version of thatis that you want to basically
own an audience over and overand over and over again.
Caleb Agee (04:03):
We call that tomorrow marketing.
Brandon Welch (04:04):
We call that tomorrow marketing.
We call that tomorrow marketing.
You're waiting for the magicalmoment, especially if you're
selling products that take along time for people to get
around to buying, like HVACsystems or home service or legal
products or medical procedures,caskets, things that take a
long time to come around to.
Buying Caskets.
I mean things that take a longtime to come around to buying.
(04:26):
There's a very, very smallamount of people at the finish
line wanting to buy those today,and there's a way to win those
people over too.
But usually the game for TV andradio is that you're trying to
win over a large group of peopleso that one day, when they
happen to suddenly need yourproduct or service, tens and
tens of thousands of them areeventually getting there.
They think of you first andthey feel good about you and
(04:48):
they want to do business withyou versus the other competitors
, and they skip the searchengines or they go to the search
engines already looking foryour name instead of trying to
pick you off a list of randomcompetitors.
So this episode is kind ofassuming that you are on board
with that.
If you haven't thought throughthat process, we have a really
good episode.
It was like in the 50 or 60episode that was called.
Caleb Agee (05:11):
Yeah, we'll link it up in the show notes.
Brandon Welch (05:13):
We'll link it in the show notes, but it's called
Watch this Before you Buy TV orRadio Ads.
Caleb Agee (05:17):
Yes.
Brandon Welch (05:17):
And that would be like definitely a precursor to
this one.
But assuming you've watchedthat, assuming you're well on
your way to being a tomorrowmarketer, uh, we're so proud of
you and the question is going tocome up.
Okay, I've been in this spotfor, you know, two or three
years.
Yeah, when do I switch that up?
Caleb Agee (05:32):
Yeah, and that's, I think, usually you.
The assumptive behind that isshouldn't.
Brandon Welch (05:39):
I throw that out?
Caleb Agee (05:39):
Isn't that audience tired of seeing me?
Or haven't I gotten them?
Gotten everything?
Out of this right, I squeezedit.
As much juice will come out ascome out by now.
Yep, and it's actually.
It's a good question, it's afair question, but it can lead
to a dangerous result if youdon't think about it in the form
of tomorrow marketing.
And so every you know you canactually divide out the life
(06:00):
cycle of your customer, the likethe buying cycle of your
product.
You can divide that out byyears and months and weeks and
you'll find that a very, verysmall percentage of your
audience, or of your you know ofthe world, is buying what you
sell this week or this month.
But if you stack that up, youknow, let's say it's half of 1%
(06:21):
is buying this month.
Brandon Welch (06:23):
Yeah.
Caleb Agee (06:23):
Next month it becomes one whole percent that
you were talking to.
If you're consistently, youknow, having a radio or TV
campaign, you were talking tothat audience.
Now we've got one whole percent.
Yes, statistically is buyingRight.
Next, in four months, we'retalking about.
2% of those people have enteredthe buying cycle and so what we
want to do is stay there for avery, very long time because we
(06:46):
don't want to lose the equitywe've built.
And that percent, that'scompounding interest.
Literally, that's happeningover time.
Brandon Welch (06:53):
This wasn't in our show notes, but that's a
really, really importantequation.
Just stop for a second.
You're going, caleb.
How in the heck would I know ifhalf a percent is buying or 3%
is buying?
You would just look across yourindustry and say, okay, on
average, how long does it takebefore somebody needs my product
?
How long do they haverefrigerators?
13 years?
(07:15):
How long do they have roofs?
And if you don't know that, youreally should be in your
business.
But how long does it take afamily to get around to hiring
an estate attorney?
How long before people switchdoctors?
You can Google that or you cancheat GPT.
It's not that hard to find.
Just find the amount of yearsand it's going to give you a
range.
But let's just say it was 15,right?
15 is a pretty fair number weuse for roofing.
Yeah.
You would take the number oneand divide it by 15, and you
(07:36):
would get 0.06.
We won't say the other 666 isbehind it, but it's 0.06, maybe
0.07.
And then, so that's your,that's your percentage per year,
Yep.
And then you would divide thatby 12 months and that would give
you huh, what do you know?
Half a percent 0.005.
Caleb Agee (07:54):
Hey, we did not plan this.
It's all on the fly, I promiseActually.
Brandon Welch (07:56):
I've done that so many, that math so many times.
Caleb Agee (07:58):
I knew yeah, that's why I picked 15.
Brandon Welch (08:00):
But there would be a half a percent per month
and you're going okay.
Well, if that's true, then ittakes 15 years to get the full
value out of my tomorrowmarketing and, by the way, once
that happens, the first half apercent just reset.
Yeah, I have some clients thatwere early, early on in my
career that are back and theywere new when they started with
(08:24):
me or otherwise they wouldn'thave rolled the dice with me and
yeah.
Yeah, Anyway, they are gettinga background to their very first
customers like home improvement.
Caleb Agee (08:31):
That's so weird.
And they're redoing their roofs.
Brandon Welch (08:34):
So, that is a really cool thing, and taking
that away, you're going okay.
The big idea here is that If wealready have equity with that
audience, why would we change itin the first place?
And this is kind of pointnumber one we're always trying
to fill one glass at a time,yeah, and keep it full.
Keep it full, that's right, andso that's.
Caleb Agee (08:54):
the thing is, we're going to fill it up this month
and we're going to fill it upnext month.
12 months out of the year, 52weeks a year, we're going to be
there.
Brandon Welch (09:03):
I think I should use a dating analogy right now,
because it just seems like themodel of courtship, right?
The longer you court, thestronger the bond is and the
less likely that you're going toyou know he or she is going to
have wandering eyes, right, yep,you're tighter bonded.
But if you stop, you know,going on dates and over time
(09:25):
which is that's the analogy foryour showing up and telling them
wonderful things about yourcompany or talking about their
life, right, and you'readvertising that's when they
become less bonded to you, so itcan deteriorate.
Harvard did a study a whileback that talked about kind of
the revolving window ofinfluence and they said after 18
(09:47):
months it fully deteriorates.
So we tend to consult about ayear, up to a year and a half
worth of our personal experienceand, by the way, a lot of that
happens in the subconscious.
It's not like we go oh, I sawthat ad 7.2 months ago, so I
think I'll call that company.
That's just the naturalsynaptic firing and the
long-term memory that we hold onto for involuntary recall of
(10:09):
companies or brands or people orwhatever.
And so after you could stop, ifyou've been advertising for a
while, you could stop, and up to18 months from now, you would
get some measurable or somemeaningful return on that, but
after that it's kind of gone.
But you don't want to do thatbecause it takes a long time.
It takes 18 months to build upto that too, right.
And so, point being, generallythe answer is never Just add to
(10:37):
it, but there are someexceptions.
Caleb Agee (10:39):
Point number one is what we say around here is fill
one glass at a time.
It means do one thing, do itwell, fill it all the way up,
keep it full For at a time.
It means do one thing, do itwell, fill it all the way up,
keep it full.
For TV filling that glass meansa minimum of three spots a week
.
We would recommend three tofive.
Five if you can.
That's a full glass In a singleprogram.
(11:00):
Typically a habitual, maybe anews program is our favorite.
Brandon Welch (11:04):
News program, something that brings back an
audience every day.
Caleb Agee (11:07):
Probably a little bit more local-minded.
They come back every single dayfor that thing, and you're
going to fill it up to fivetimes a week.
Yes, starting at no less thanthree.
Brandon Welch (11:16):
And somebody's like well, why wouldn't I be in
more places?
Because it takes repetition forthem to remember you, Did you
know.
It takes repetition for them toremember you, did you know.
It takes repetition for them toremember you, did you?
Caleb Agee (11:29):
know it takes repetition for them to remember
you.
Brandon Welch (11:31):
I knew he was going to do that Repetition,
plus the relevancy of your ad.
Repetition plus relevancy.
So the more relevant you are,the less repetitions you have to
have.
But when you're a roofingcompany, you're only going to be
so relevant because peopledon't need the roof replaced, no
matter how much they like you,right, yeah?
Caleb Agee (11:48):
If you're on radio, 35 spots in the 6A to 7P.
That's the daytime radio,that's our philosophy 35 spots a
week.
Brandon Welch (11:58):
If you want more reasons as to why those are the-
.
Caleb Agee (12:02):
Go check out that, go check out that past episode
and then also chapters 9 through15 in the book.
Brandon Welch (12:07):
Kind of outline that Yep.
Caleb Agee (12:10):
Yeah, so fill one glass at a time.
Point number two is this atoday or tomorrow campaign?
That's the question you'regoing to ask yourself.
Yeah, if you're saying hey,should I change it?
Well, if it's tomorrow campaign?
Brandon Welch (12:22):
we just talked about all the reasons that you
probably shouldn't change ittalked about all the reasons
that you probably shouldn'tchange it which tomorrow
campaigns for service companies,which is the majority of this
audience, and for people who aretrying to become well-branded
in their company.
That's the biggest reason touse TV or radio.
However, TV or radio can alsobe very good direct response, or
what we call today medias.
Caleb Agee (12:40):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (12:41):
And if, let's just say, you're promoting an
event?
Caleb Agee (12:44):
Yeah, we used to work with a local event venue,
yeah, and they'd run highfrequency ads right up before
the event or the ticket salesclose.
Brandon Welch (12:55):
Yeah, if you're trying to get like, if you're
measuring the entire thing of Iran it and then 30 days, how
much money did I get from that?
Well, you are going to sort ofshake all the fruit off that
tree before they have a chanceto regrow.
And if you're not thinking longterm I don't I don't
necessarily recommend that, butthere are cases where it's like
(13:16):
I've got to think short term Iactually would change the
audience, because if I'm notassigning any more value to the
campaign than just what am Ipulling off today, I actually
would change the audience moreoften Because, yeah, just you
got to go find a new tree toshake.
Caleb Agee (13:32):
Yeah, the more you do today marketing, the less it
works.
So, if you've done today,marketing to one audience, and
you said, hey, I've got thisshtick, this gimmick, this deal,
this offer.
Yeah.
This event.
Yes, if you've got this shtick,this gimmick, this deal, this
offer, this event, well, thataudience is going to become numb
to the specialness of thatafter you've done it for three
(13:54):
weeks or a month or whateverthat might be, it's a technical
term.
Brandon Welch (13:56):
Specialness, yeah , specialness, yes, you have a
lot of specialness, thank you.
That's what my mom tells me.
But the best plan is to becomethe one that they think of first
anyway, and you do that by justchanging your message with the
same audience over and over.
Just keep being relevant bychanging your message.
So I will say there's a kind ofa recent exception I've had to
(14:21):
this rule so I didn't pull outof an audience, I didn't change
the schedule altogether, but Ihave a client in Atlanta and
very, very expensive market toget into.
I mean we're talking multiplesix figures to be even a small
to medium-sized player inbroadcast, and we've been
magically, after 12 months,things were just like there was
(14:43):
like this is awesome.
It's feeling really good.
And it's like, well, it justtakes that long sometime to
prime the pump and they're inthe you know they're in home
improvement space and you knowall credit to them.
They, they're like this is good, we.
We feel confident when I investsome more money and so what
should we do with that money?
And okay, at that point I knowI'm not going to pull off the
(15:04):
programs.
I've got like two audiences.
I'm really I was really doubleddown on or really heavy in.
I know I'm not going to pullcompletely out because I've got
really good equity and we made agood program decision anyway.
But I did look at GoogleAnalytics.
I'm going this is a tomorrowcampaign but we're getting some
today results as a cherry on topand so, if I can, I think I was
in five spots a week in one ofthe programs and I'm going.
(15:28):
So I'm going to pull a couplespots from that and I'm going to
put them more in this otherprogram because I've got more
money to spend more expensiveprogram because I'm getting more
responses.
There I just reduced it alittle bit.
I kind of shifted some budgetfocus, so it was like 60-40.
Now it's like 40-60.
And that's okay to do becauseyou can maintain an audience
(15:49):
with less frequency, especiallyafter a year's time.
Caleb Agee (15:52):
You still kept that anchor in both places.
You just shifted the weightbecause you had budget to be
able to spend more on the moreexpensive program.
Brandon Welch (15:59):
Yeah, and it really.
In that case it was a lateafternoon program.
We just noticed analyticsdirect traffic is spiking more
at that time than it is middleof the day, it doesn't mean that
other program is bad.
That other program is actuallyprobably a bigger.
Reason why it's working laterin the day it's just later in
the day is when people are morelikely to act on it.
So those sorts of shifts areokay.
(16:20):
But I love this quote the grassdoesn't grow faster by tugging
on it.
Sometimes you just got to waitfor the grass to grow.
Right, that's right, and sothat kind of leads to the third
and final point.
You can shift budget, butgenerally only add to it when
(16:41):
your budget grows.
You can buy that same audience,maybe beef it up, get more with
that audience, or, if you'vegot enough, to buy a whole other
program at spots a week.
Um say it's a bigger program,more expensive.
You couldn't do it at first, ortwo years ago you couldn't do
it, but now you're spendingtwice the money so you can buy
the big.
I'm talking the 6 PM news.
(17:01):
I'm talking 500,000 people in amonth that are watching the
same program.
If you can afford to be onthose all day long, you become a
market leader.
Yep.
Caleb Agee (17:10):
Because remember that that half of it's not half
for you necessarily, but itcould be.
You could do your math half ofa percent of that audience of
that audience, yeah, and youcould find that out pretty
quickly with your, with your buyand the reach and frequency of
that.
But, um, that gets to be a bignumber, yeah, when you're buying
those bigger audiences and it's, it's pretty exciting to yeah
(17:32):
so that was all with TV Radio.
Brandon Welch (17:34):
it's just like I would probably buy 35 spots
minimum 6A to 7P, monday throughFriday.
Again, if you want to know why,go listen to the other episode.
And then I'd probably buy up to55 to 65 spots a week in that
same station.
I would become like the mostaggressive advertiser on that
(17:55):
station before I would go addanother station, you know before
I'd go just like try tofragment that.
So we're not adding otherprograms on radio, whereas we're
adding other stationsaltogether.
So if I'm on the, you know thecountry station and I'm doing
really good at that frequencyand it's like the client's grown
, which happens a lot, and it'slike what do we do next?
(18:18):
Do we switch stations?
No, we keep the same one, weadd another one.
Sometimes you're leapfrogging,sometimes you're beefing one up
to the big level and then you'regoing okay, if I take a little
bit off that big size and I cango pair a little bit more money
with it and buy a second one,still with our minimum
frequencies in place there,that's good.
Caleb Agee (18:35):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (18:36):
That's a lot.
We warned you that it was goingto be a little bit in the weeds
, yeah, so sorry for that.
Caleb Agee (18:41):
It's okay, it's fun.
It's fun, you're a marketer.
There's some nerds on here thatappreciate that you like it.
That's why you listen to week.
(19:01):
You don't miss an episode.
Okay, big recap, go for it,caleb.
Number one don't change yourprogramming just because Fill
one glass.
Maybe you've only got itthree-fifths of the way full.
Well, if you get more money,fill it all the way up and then,
once you're full, then go tothe next glass, move on.
Keep continuing to own anaudience.
Win them.
Don't give up on them, becausethey will turn into buyers
Tomorrow.
Campaigns are a matter of seedtime and harvest.
You, you know, don't go pullingon that grass unless you want
(19:22):
it to come out on you Like it'lljust pull right out of the
ground.
So, and then slight shifts areto bigger audiences are okay.
Are okay when your budgetchanges.
So that's.
Brandon talked about the ratiochanges and things like that.
You can.
There's nuance.
There's nuance to all of this,but what you want to stay true
to is you have built arelationship with a particular
(19:45):
set of people.
And don't let anybody creep inon that audience you are going
to be their choice for insertwhat you do here, yep.
Brandon Welch (19:55):
Good episode.
Caleb Agee (19:56):
Yeah.
Brandon Welch (19:56):
Quickie but a goodie.
Pair that with awesomemessaging and some of the stuff
we're going to be talking aboutcoming up.
How to create magneticmarketing campaigns with Carter.
Tell them about the mastermind.
Tell them about the mastermind.
Caleb Agee (20:17):
Hey, if you want to know how to do that and all this
stuff we're talking about here,with a more hand-guided person
in your corner, you couldliterally pull up your buy and
say is this what you're talkingabout?
Brandon Welch (20:22):
Is this a little good, and which program would
you choose?
Yeah, and am I paying too muchfor this?
Caleb Agee (20:28):
We can't do that in this format, unfortunately.
Brandon Welch (20:31):
We can't.
We can tell you stories ofothers, but if you want it done
for you directly, kind of likewe do for full-blown partner
clients.
Here we have a really cool newthing called the Maven Marketing
Mastermind, and you're going towant to go to
mavenmethodtrainingcom.
That's on the screen now, andCarter just put a little cool
sound effect when I said now,didn't you, carter?
(20:53):
So you're going to be able tosign up there and for a very,
very reasonable investment on amonthly basis For right now it's
still $99 a month.
The street price of that isgoing up to $250 very soon, but
you can get in on the groundfloor of that group and you can
show up a couple times a monthand I or Caleb or Leslie or
(21:17):
another strategist on our teamwill be there answering your
questions and just being like,yeah, this is what I would do.
This is what all these wonderfulclients that we talk about here
, getting the great results thisis what they're doing.
So if you'd like to minimizeyour risk and increase your
return on investment of whatevermarketing plan you have going
for your business, that is whythe Maven Marketing Mastermind
(21:39):
exists and we're so freakingexcited about that.
Caleb Agee (21:41):
It'll be a group call twice a month and then I
think another really cool piecewill be we're building a
community around that.
Other marketers, other businessleaders and you guys will be
able to interact and askquestions of each other, learn
from each other.
It doesn't all have to be aboutmarketing.
If you know us in any form,we're all about taking it past,
(22:03):
just marketing business as awhole.
So it's going to be great.
Brandon Welch (22:05):
No doubt, yep, that's mavenmethodtrainingcom,
and right now there's an offerto get that for $99 a month, and
that's cheap insurance.
Yes, and guess what If you hateit?
We're going to give you yourmoney back.
Yeah.
We're not trying to get richoff this.
Yeah.
Just to, just to cover some ofthe cost of doing it.
So we'll be back here everyMonday answering your real life
(22:26):
marketing questions.
Because marketers who cannotteach you why are just a fancy
lie.
Have a great week.
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