February 25, 2025 • 10 mins
Kevin Geddings talks with Cardiologist Dr. Michael Koren about the health risks and benefits of alcohol, which continue to be significant topics of discussion in health circles. This episode delves into a late Biden-era proposal for alcohol warning labels amid growing concerns about cancer risks associated with consumption. Dr. Koren expresses a desire for more clinical trial data on this subject looking at the health benefits and risks of alcohol consumption.
Be a part of advancing science by participating in clinical research.
Have a question for Dr. Koren? Email him at askDrKoren@MedEvidence.com
Listen on Spotify
Listen on Apple Podcasts
Watch on YouTube
Share with a friend. Rate, Review, and Subscribe to the MedEvidence! podcast to be notified when new episodes are released.
Follow us on Social Media:
Facebook
Instagram
X (Formerly Twitter)
LinkedIn
Want to learn more? Checkout our entire library of podcasts, videos, articles and presentations at www.MedEvidence.com
Music: Storyblocks - Corporate Inspired
Thank you for listening!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
Welcome to the MedEvidence! Monday Minute Radio
Show hosted by Kevin Geddingsof WSOS St Augustine Radio and
powered by ENCORE Research Group.
Each Monday morning, Dr.
Michael Koren calls in to bringyou the latest medical updates
with insightful discussions.
MedEvidence! is where we helpyou navigate the real truth
behind medical research, withboth a clinical and research
(00:20):
perspective.
So sit back, relax and getready to learn about the truth
behind the data in medicine andhealthcare.
This is MedEvidence!
Kevin Geddings (00:30):
Dr.
Michael Koren, as promised,joining us live on the studio
line, of course.
He's a medical doctor,cardiologist, research scientist
and heads up the show at ENCOREResearch Group , and they have
an office right here in StAugustine in the Whetstone
Building near UF FlaglerHospital, where you can go and
participate in some leading edgemedical research and get some
of the best health care you'veever received, along with
(00:51):
compensation for your time.
And today we thought we wouldtalk a little bit about
something that's been kickedaround the notion of.
Does alcohol, you know, causevarious health problems,
including maybe cancer?
And should alcohol have warninglabels on the bottles, right, D
r.
Koren?
Dr. Michael Koren (01:07):
Yeah, good morning, Kevin, and thank you
for the introduction.
So you usually ask me questions, so this morning I have a
question for you, which is yousaid there was an 80% chance of
rain in St John's County, andwhen I walked out of my house in
St.
County my hair got wet.
So what's the percentage ofrain for me?
Kevin Geddings (01:25):
It's about 100% right.
Dr. Michael Koren (01:30):
So I bring that up, just because statistics
can be misleading.
The old Mark Twain line thatthere are three types of
mendacities (01:37):
lies, damn lies and statistics.
So we live in this world andthat's an example of how you can
interpret things and get fooledby statistics perhaps.
But getting back to youroriginal question, yeah, it's a
big controversy right now,really fascinating.
Right before the end of theBiden administration, the
(02:00):
Surgeon General under Bidensubmitted a recommendation to
Congress to put warning labelson all alcohol.
So just like cigarettes havewarning labels, he wanted
alcohol to have warning labelsand the reason for that is there
are some data, there aresurveys and other type of
(02:20):
epidemiological data which showthat people who use alcohol have
a higher risk of GI cancers,like cancer of the esophagus and
cancer of the colon and breastcancer, interestingly.
So the concern about thishigher risk of breast cancer led
the Surgeon General to make therecommendation for Congress to
put warning labels on allalcohol.
(02:41):
So if you bought a can of beeror you bought some spirits, they
would have a warning label.
But the problem with this isthat for many years, many of us
in the cardiology community feltthat moderate or less use of
alcohol actually had a slightbeneficial effect on heart
disease.
So we know that alcohol raisesHDL cholesterol, which is a good
(03:03):
cholesterol, and there'sstudies that show that people
that use a little bit of alcoholactually have fewer heart
attacks and perhaps less heartfailure over time.
So this gets into a little bitof a debate, but also a tension
between the effects of alcohol,which is a drug in and of itself
, its effects on cancer versusheart disease, and many of us
(03:25):
would argue that, hey, maybe weshould study this in a very
comprehensive way before westart telling people that there
is health dangers about usingalcohol.
And, interestingly, sometimesthis breaks down based on what
individual physicians believepersonally.
(03:46):
So physicians who like to have aglass of wine with dinner are
going to be more likely to say,hey, let's not put warning
labels on alcohol, that'sgetting way ahead of ourselves.
Let's study this, whereas otherteetotalers may want to support
their view of the world, whichis that people should not use
alcohol.
So it's an interesting dilemmathat we have and actually one
that we're starting to addressby creating a study that looks
(04:07):
at this issue.
And, more broadly, we'relooking at this issue informally
in the studies that we're doing.
So, for example, if you getinvolved in one of our weight
loss studies, or one of ourdiabetes studies that are using
a GLP-1 agonist.
We're looking at whether or notthat affects alcohol use to
determine whether or not thesetype of drugs have this
(04:29):
unintended consequence of maybehelping people with impulse
control and other things thatare really really interesting
that really need to be studiedvery critically.
Kevin Geddings (04:38):
Very interesting .
So how do you see this playingout over time?
I mean, how does this getresolved Ultimately?
We know we have warning labelson cigarettes, so we got there
at some point.
How do we either get to thatpoint with alcohol or we make
the decision not to do it?
Dr. Michael Koren (04:52):
Yeah, the data on alcohol, actually the
data on cigarettes, are veryclear.
Cigarettes are bad for you.
When you burn tobacco yourelease 3,000 carcinogens.
There's no safe dose of smokingand there's no debate that
using a little bit of nicotineor using a little bit of tobacco
, in particular, nicotine is alittle bit of a different animal
(05:13):
.
There's a subtlety there that Ican get into, but certainly
burning tobacco doesn't have anypositive health benefits.
So that's pretty clear-cut andthe data for that were
overwhelming and there's a very,very strong consensus on that.
But alcohol is a little bit ofa different chemical and the
consensus is just not there.
So to suggest that there shouldbe warning labels is going to be
(05:36):
tricky.
Now some people would argue well, just let people know the fact
that in certain cases therecould be an increased risk of
cancer and let them decide ontheir own.
But the problem there is thatpeople will then perhaps change
helpful patterns that arehelping them from the standpoint
of coronary artery disease andthe end result could be less
(05:57):
good public health outcomes.
So you have to really thinkabout these things carefully and
I would argue the best way offiguring it out is by doing
comprehensive clinical trialswhere you start from the
beginning.
You randomize patients, eitherput patients into an arm of a
study where they get warninglabels, for example, or they get
information that goes throughall the risks.
The other one will just saywell, talk to your doctor about
(06:20):
the use of alcohol rather thangiving any particular warning.
And see A does that influencebehavior and B does that affect
health outcomes.
Unfortunately, that verylogical way of going about
solving this problem issomething that is more difficult
to get people to buy intoversus just paying lobbyists a
bunch of money to argue theirpoint in Congress.
Kevin Geddings (06:42):
But we'll see what happens.
Yeah, interesting.
That's Dr.
Michael Koren Once again.
You can learn more, too, aboutparticipating in the clinical
research that he referenced bygoing to EncoreDocscom.
Encoredocs.
com and this issue, along withall these other health issues,
you know, obviously you can goon TikTok or some other social
media platform and find allsorts of information that says,
you know, drinking alcoholcauses cancer it does or it
(07:04):
doesn't but MedEvidence! triesto deal with all that sort of
bad information that's out there, doesn't it, doctor?
Dr. Michael Koren (07:11):
It does.
In fact, we have a podcastavailable for people to look at
right now where I'm talking withone of my colleagues, a
tremendous researcher, BharatMisra, and we're talking about
this whole debate and ways ofunderstanding this debate and
ways of solving it and also theways that people need to make
good decisions for themselvesand their families.
(07:31):
So I'd encourage everybody tolook at that.
And the other thing I would sayis that if you're an advertiser
, you may want to advertise onMedEvidence!, and the reason for
that is that the onlyadvertisement that will take on
MedEvidence! is advertisementthat we feel has a net positive
health benefit.
So if you're trying to sellyour vaping device, you will not
(07:54):
have a home in MedEvidence!,but if you try to sell your gym
membership or your healthy foodselection, you have a great home
.
So that's another way we'retrying to help the consumers
make good decisions.
Kevin Geddings (08:06):
Absolutely Well.
Once again, that website isMedEvidencecom.
The truth behind all the datawhich I know for many of us
seems like it's just swirlingaround us all the time, whether
it's social media or the regularmedia.
Check out medevidence.
com and help us get the word outabout that website, if you
could share it with people whoare you know, maybe online right
now or have been over the lastfew days looking up information
(08:27):
about various healthcare topics,say, hey, you know, why don't
you check out medevidence.
com, where you can actuallytrust the what you find on that
website?
If you're interested inparticipating in clinical trials
, you want to learn more aboutwhat options are out there.
There's so many of them goingon, we really can't list them
all.
Go to EncoreDocs.
com, encoredocs.
com or call them here locally inSt.
(08:48):
John's County and St Augustineat 904-730-0166.
Dr.
Michael Koren, any closingthoughts before we let you go on
this dreary, rainy Monday?
Dr. Michael Koren (08:59):
Yeah, well, you mentioned a myriad of
clinical trials that we're doing, and, yes, we probably have
something for virtually everyone, but one I'm particularly
excited about is one that'sstarting up showing that a pill
that acts as a vaccine againstCOVID could be just as effective
as a shot.
So for those of you that areinterested in the whole COVID
(09:20):
debate, there may be anothersolution, rather than getting an
mRNA vaccine, which is toactually take a pill that serves
the way the polio pillprotected people against polio.
Kevin Geddings (09:31):
Wow.
Dr. Michael Koren (09:32):
Give us a call and check it out.
We'll give you the details.
Kevin Geddings (09:35):
That could be a game changer.
I've got you.
I know you're busy, but will weever get to a point where we
could take a pill for our flushot?
Dr. Michael Koren (09:46):
It could be around the corner.
We're not doing that researchat the moment, but as the
technology becomes more and moresophisticated those things
become possible
Kevin Geddings (09:54):
Amazing stuff.
That's why we always enjoy ourtime with Dr.
Michael Koren each and everyMonday morning.
You can learn more, once again,by going to EncoreDocs.
com.
Dr. Michael Koren (10:07):
Thank you very much and we'll talk with
you again next week.
My pleasure.
Have a great week
Announcer (10:12):
Thanks for joining the MedEvidence! podcast.
To learn more, head over toMedEvidence.
com or subscribe to our podcaston your favorite podcast
platform.
Welcome to the MedEvidence! Monday Minute Radio
Show hosted by Kevin Geddingsof WSOS St Augustine Radio and
powered by ENCORE Research Group.
Each Monday morning, Dr.
Michael Koren calls in to bringyou the latest medical updates
with insightful discussions.
MedEvidence! is where we helpyou navigate the real truth
behind medical research, withboth a clinical and research
(00:20):
perspective.
So sit back, relax and getready to learn about the truth
behind the data in medicine andhealthcare.
This is MedEvidence!
Kevin Geddings (00:30):
Dr.
Michael Koren, as promised,joining us live on the studio
line, of course.
He's a medical doctor,cardiologist, research scientist
and heads up the show at ENCOREResearch Group , and they have
an office right here in StAugustine in the Whetstone
Building near UF FlaglerHospital, where you can go and
participate in some leading edgemedical research and get some
of the best health care you'veever received, along with
(00:51):
compensation for your time.
And today we thought we wouldtalk a little bit about
something that's been kickedaround the notion of.
Does alcohol, you know, causevarious health problems,
including maybe cancer?
And should alcohol have warninglabels on the bottles, right, D
r.
Koren?
Dr. Michael Koren (01:07):
Yeah, good morning, Kevin, and thank you
for the introduction.
So you usually ask me questions, so this morning I have a
question for you, which is yousaid there was an 80% chance of
rain in St John's County, andwhen I walked out of my house in
St.
County my hair got wet.
So what's the percentage ofrain for me?
Kevin Geddings (01:25):
It's about 100% right.
Dr. Michael Koren (01:30):
So I bring that up, just because statistics
can be misleading.
The old Mark Twain line thatthere are three types of
mendacities (01:37):
lies, damn lies and statistics.
So we live in this world andthat's an example of how you can
interpret things and get fooledby statistics perhaps.
But getting back to youroriginal question, yeah, it's a
big controversy right now,really fascinating.
Right before the end of theBiden administration, the
(02:00):
Surgeon General under Bidensubmitted a recommendation to
Congress to put warning labelson all alcohol.
So just like cigarettes havewarning labels, he wanted
alcohol to have warning labelsand the reason for that is there
are some data, there aresurveys and other type of
(02:20):
epidemiological data which showthat people who use alcohol have
a higher risk of GI cancers,like cancer of the esophagus and
cancer of the colon and breastcancer, interestingly.
So the concern about thishigher risk of breast cancer led
the Surgeon General to make therecommendation for Congress to
put warning labels on allalcohol.
(02:41):
So if you bought a can of beeror you bought some spirits, they
would have a warning label.
But the problem with this isthat for many years, many of us
in the cardiology community feltthat moderate or less use of
alcohol actually had a slightbeneficial effect on heart
disease.
So we know that alcohol raisesHDL cholesterol, which is a good
(03:03):
cholesterol, and there'sstudies that show that people
that use a little bit of alcoholactually have fewer heart
attacks and perhaps less heartfailure over time.
So this gets into a little bitof a debate, but also a tension
between the effects of alcohol,which is a drug in and of itself
, its effects on cancer versusheart disease, and many of us
(03:25):
would argue that, hey, maybe weshould study this in a very
comprehensive way before westart telling people that there
is health dangers about usingalcohol.
And, interestingly, sometimesthis breaks down based on what
individual physicians believepersonally.
(03:46):
So physicians who like to have aglass of wine with dinner are
going to be more likely to say,hey, let's not put warning
labels on alcohol, that'sgetting way ahead of ourselves.
Let's study this, whereas otherteetotalers may want to support
their view of the world, whichis that people should not use
alcohol.
So it's an interesting dilemmathat we have and actually one
that we're starting to addressby creating a study that looks
(04:07):
at this issue.
And, more broadly, we'relooking at this issue informally
in the studies that we're doing.
So, for example, if you getinvolved in one of our weight
loss studies, or one of ourdiabetes studies that are using
a GLP-1 agonist.
We're looking at whether or notthat affects alcohol use to
determine whether or not thesetype of drugs have this
(04:29):
unintended consequence of maybehelping people with impulse
control and other things thatare really really interesting
that really need to be studiedvery critically.
Kevin Geddings (04:38):
Very interesting .
So how do you see this playingout over time?
I mean, how does this getresolved Ultimately?
We know we have warning labelson cigarettes, so we got there
at some point.
How do we either get to thatpoint with alcohol or we make
the decision not to do it?
Dr. Michael Koren (04:52):
Yeah, the data on alcohol, actually the
data on cigarettes, are veryclear.
Cigarettes are bad for you.
When you burn tobacco yourelease 3,000 carcinogens.
There's no safe dose of smokingand there's no debate that
using a little bit of nicotineor using a little bit of tobacco
, in particular, nicotine is alittle bit of a different animal
(05:13):
.
There's a subtlety there that Ican get into, but certainly
burning tobacco doesn't have anypositive health benefits.
So that's pretty clear-cut andthe data for that were
overwhelming and there's a very,very strong consensus on that.
But alcohol is a little bit ofa different chemical and the
consensus is just not there.
So to suggest that there shouldbe warning labels is going to be
(05:36):
tricky.
Now some people would argue well, just let people know the fact
that in certain cases therecould be an increased risk of
cancer and let them decide ontheir own.
But the problem there is thatpeople will then perhaps change
helpful patterns that arehelping them from the standpoint
of coronary artery disease andthe end result could be less
(05:57):
good public health outcomes.
So you have to really thinkabout these things carefully and
I would argue the best way offiguring it out is by doing
comprehensive clinical trialswhere you start from the
beginning.
You randomize patients, eitherput patients into an arm of a
study where they get warninglabels, for example, or they get
information that goes throughall the risks.
The other one will just saywell, talk to your doctor about
(06:20):
the use of alcohol rather thangiving any particular warning.
And see A does that influencebehavior and B does that affect
health outcomes.
Unfortunately, that verylogical way of going about
solving this problem issomething that is more difficult
to get people to buy intoversus just paying lobbyists a
bunch of money to argue theirpoint in Congress.
Kevin Geddings (06:42):
But we'll see what happens.
Yeah, interesting.
That's Dr.
Michael Koren Once again.
You can learn more, too, aboutparticipating in the clinical
research that he referenced bygoing to EncoreDocscom.
Encoredocs.
com and this issue, along withall these other health issues,
you know, obviously you can goon TikTok or some other social
media platform and find allsorts of information that says,
you know, drinking alcoholcauses cancer it does or it
(07:04):
doesn't but MedEvidence! triesto deal with all that sort of
bad information that's out there, doesn't it, doctor?
Dr. Michael Koren (07:11):
It does.
In fact, we have a podcastavailable for people to look at
right now where I'm talking withone of my colleagues, a
tremendous researcher, BharatMisra, and we're talking about
this whole debate and ways ofunderstanding this debate and
ways of solving it and also theways that people need to make
good decisions for themselvesand their families.
(07:31):
So I'd encourage everybody tolook at that.
And the other thing I would sayis that if you're an advertiser
, you may want to advertise onMedEvidence!, and the reason for
that is that the onlyadvertisement that will take on
MedEvidence! is advertisementthat we feel has a net positive
health benefit.
So if you're trying to sellyour vaping device, you will not
(07:54):
have a home in MedEvidence!,but if you try to sell your gym
membership or your healthy foodselection, you have a great home
.
So that's another way we'retrying to help the consumers
make good decisions.
Kevin Geddings (08:06):
Absolutely Well.
Once again, that website isMedEvidencecom.
The truth behind all the datawhich I know for many of us
seems like it's just swirlingaround us all the time, whether
it's social media or the regularmedia.
Check out medevidence.
com and help us get the word outabout that website, if you
could share it with people whoare you know, maybe online right
now or have been over the lastfew days looking up information
(08:27):
about various healthcare topics,say, hey, you know, why don't
you check out medevidence.
com, where you can actuallytrust the what you find on that
website?
If you're interested inparticipating in clinical trials
, you want to learn more aboutwhat options are out there.
There's so many of them goingon, we really can't list them
all.
Go to EncoreDocs.
com, encoredocs.
com or call them here locally inSt.
(08:48):
John's County and St Augustineat 904-730-0166.
Dr.
Michael Koren, any closingthoughts before we let you go on
this dreary, rainy Monday?
Dr. Michael Koren (08:59):
Yeah, well, you mentioned a myriad of
clinical trials that we're doing, and, yes, we probably have
something for virtually everyone, but one I'm particularly
excited about is one that'sstarting up showing that a pill
that acts as a vaccine againstCOVID could be just as effective
as a shot.
So for those of you that areinterested in the whole COVID
(09:20):
debate, there may be anothersolution, rather than getting an
mRNA vaccine, which is toactually take a pill that serves
the way the polio pillprotected people against polio.
Kevin Geddings (09:31):
Wow.
Dr. Michael Koren (09:32):
Give us a call and check it out.
We'll give you the details.
Kevin Geddings (09:35):
That could be a game changer.
I've got you.
I know you're busy, but will weever get to a point where we
could take a pill for our flushot?
Dr. Michael Koren (09:46):
It could be around the corner.
We're not doing that researchat the moment, but as the
technology becomes more and moresophisticated those things
become possible
Kevin Geddings (09:54):
Amazing stuff.
That's why we always enjoy ourtime with Dr.
Michael Koren each and everyMonday morning.
You can learn more, once again,by going to EncoreDocs.
com.
Dr. Michael Koren (10:07):
Thank you very much and we'll talk with
you again next week.
My pleasure.
Have a great week
Announcer (10:12):
Thanks for joining the MedEvidence! podcast.
To learn more, head over toMedEvidence.
com or subscribe to our podcaston your favorite podcast
platform.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!